00:00:24 mducharme: there's cl-python, an implementation of python written in Common Lisp. 00:00:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:01:38 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:50 oh cool! 00:01:55 thanks pjb, that might be just what I need 00:03:18 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:50 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8FD7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:11:44 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:05 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 00:17:30 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:19:04 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:06 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:36 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:31 -!- Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:56 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-214-155.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:18 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has joined #lisp 00:27:42 I have some questions about packages and could use some help if someone wouldn't mind 00:28:13 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:51 don't ask to ask 00:31:48 drdo: How can you define functions for a package in a file? I have only been able to define functions in the repel. 00:32:06 I may not be understanding how packages work in lisp\ 00:32:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:19 I've tried this http://pastebin.com/W60Kjss0 00:35:24 msmith1: a package is a way to map a string to a symbol 00:35:26 msmith1: (in-package :your-package) (defun ...) 00:36:26 msmith1: in-package sets the variable CL:*PACKAGE* which is used by the reader when it interns the symbols it reads with (intern token-text cl:*package*). 00:37:41 pjb: Xach: did you take a look at the file I pasted? 00:38:01 msmith1: yes. 00:38:23 msmith1: what did you expect to happen? what happened instead? 00:39:13 msmith1: now I have. So what? 00:39:24 xach: well, I expect to create a package in a file and define functions for that package. then be able to compile that file in the repel and use the package 00:39:50 but I just don't understand how they are supposed to work in lisp 00:39:52 msmith1: you didn't include the forms that create the package, e.g. (defpackage ...) 00:40:04 msmith1: try the chapter on packages in PCL 00:40:23 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:47 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:47 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:40:47 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:41:25 msmith1: usually, in a different file you should have a (defpackage :your-package (:use :cl) (:export :your-public-function)) package definition form. 00:41:35 msmith1: this different file is loaded first. 00:41:41 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:44 xach: pjb: thanks 00:45:11 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-214-155.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 00:47:23 LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-kscwotfquvdbogmy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:11 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5D1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:58 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-yxsvxnyljjmqjhdr] has joined #lisp 00:57:50 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 So would it be considered bad form to flet a symbol FOO? 01:02:07 why would you want to? 01:03:14 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:03:43 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:59 I don't :) just something i saw out in CL land and wondered if it was considered kosher... 01:05:11 if foo is the name you must give it, then by all means 01:06:43 I would advocate for quux 01:08:34 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:51 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:12:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:59 sykopomp: not "Quux, the mighty" ? {: 01:15:15 That works, too. 01:16:13 permagreen [~alex@97-120-248-127.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:24 (flet ((|"Quux, the mighty"| () ....) ..)) 01:21:04 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:12 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:22:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-yxsvxnyljjmqjhdr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:23:19 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wwgqevajebqhsxna] has joined #lisp 01:24:44 -!- stardiviner [~chris@122.237.0.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:32:27 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 01:33:44 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:40 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 01:34:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wwgqevajebqhsxna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:47 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:37:32 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:49 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:49 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:38:49 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 01:40:15 hi, for an instance # what's B349371 called and can I extract it? 01:40:56 I'm assuming it's some sort of unique ID? 01:41:44 it's not unique, and not even consistent. 01:41:54 ah :( ok 01:42:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:45:25 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:46:13 -!- LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: LimitSupremum] 01:48:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:53:34 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:58:28 Kotake [~Kotake@unaffiliated/kotake] has joined #lisp 02:05:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:08:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:13:30 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D3A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D678.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:18:06 egn: if you need to uniquely compare things, just use eq 02:19:41 Or eql, if you believe that there is only one number 5. 02:22:28 Ralith: thanks 02:23:01 egn: or, you can use a hash table to get a useful token (e.g. an integer). 02:24:11 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:05 pkhuong: sorry, not sure what you mean 02:28:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:11 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:21 cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has joined #lisp 02:31:21 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has quit [Changing host] 02:31:21 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:31:34 Use a hash table to maintain a map between integers and values. That way you can print them with a consistent id, and use that id to get to the object. 02:32:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:54 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 02:33:32 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:11 okay, yeah, I was thinking about setting an ID slot as a global/incrementing *id* but a hash table is probably better 02:35:04 thanks 02:35:24 an id slots only lets you map one way. 02:35:59 sellout [~Adium@adbn-static-01-0054.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:02 yeah 02:43:20 http://paste.lisp.org/+2NR7 02:43:27 SBCL bit-vector declarations fail w/ (optimize (speed 3)) 02:43:54 pkhuong: Maybe you can tell me if that is an error or I am doing something wrong 02:44:25 mon_key: you lie to the compiler. 02:44:29 <_3b> declaring a ub8 vector to be a bit vector you mean? that seems pretty wrong 02:45:35 I would think the example case should error for an array of 16 bits! 02:46:27 <_3b> yeah, lieing about that part is wrong too :) 02:46:35 IOW, yes I can make it fail for a lie around ub8 but not for a lie about array of 16 bits 02:47:31 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:43 <_3b> well, spec allows any response to lies about types, so you shouldn't rely on either behavior in portable code 02:47:54 My understanding was that to quote the manual, "SBCL treats declarations as assertions" 02:48:01 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 02:49:24 Was not realizing that (safety 2) was mandatory. 02:49:47 complex type checks are simplified at (speed 3) 02:50:34 OK. So (simple-bit-vector 128) is a complex type? 02:51:53 sure. You get a check for simple-bit-vector--ness, but not the length. 02:52:32 *_3b* wonders how often 2 bitvectors would have the same number of 0 and different number of 1 02:53:16 So no way to declare any stronger than simple-bit-vector? 02:53:18 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:35 <_3b> use check-type if you really want it to be a type check 02:54:21 _3b: :) That wasn't my question though. 02:54:26 3b: It depends on the probability distribution of bits for those vectors. 02:54:36 (And the number of bits) 02:55:11 <_3b> Zhivago: sorry, equal length bitvectors 02:55:29 mon_key: I don't understand what your question is then. 02:56:24 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:30 <_3b> mon_key: sbcl is smart enough to infer a type from check-type, and it will use the full type from the declare even if it doesn't verify it at runtime (possibly leading to undefined behavior if the declarations were wrong) 02:57:30 -!- Kotake [~Kotake@unaffiliated/kotake] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:46 _3b: Im sorry, what does "to infer a type" mean? 02:58:10 <_3b> it knows that if check-type returns, the value must be of that type, same as if it had been declared 02:59:31 _3b: So if the correct optimization voodo is in play will SBCL make use of that inference when compiling? 02:59:57 what optimization voodo? 03:00:06 _3b: it won't use the length, actually. 03:00:20 (optimize (speed 3) (safety 2)) 03:00:48 optimization/type checking in CL is pretty much voodoo, nothing is guaranteed 03:01:03 _3b: I give up. 03:01:25 <_3b> pkhuong: won't infer it from check-type, but would get it from declare, or wouldn't use it in either case? 03:02:09 if you declare, the check-type will be optimised away. 03:02:25 from a check-type alone, you'll get the basic arry type, but not the length. 03:02:48 <_3b> ah 03:02:55 daniel [~daniel@p5B326939.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:22 So, you actually want something like check-type and locally (a sad state of affairs, admittedly). 03:03:24 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:43 pkhuong: _3b: Thanks for your help. This one would've driven me mad without having recourse to your help. :) 03:05:21 <_3b> well, in this case whant you really want is to just use bulit-in functions since it was probably optimized at lower-level than portable CL 03:05:30 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B3267BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:35 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:16 yes, like (SB-INT:BIT-VECTOR-= bv-a bv-b) 03:07:33 or equal. 03:09:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lqwshahxxccaedlz] has joined #lisp 03:10:11 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:10:49 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:06 evening 03:15:15 -!- permagreen [~alex@97-120-248-127.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 03:15:40 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:16:09 -!- bwright_sleep [~bwright@uberwolf.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:17:00 -!- wivlaro [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:17:24 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 03:17:40 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:20:57 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:20:57 <_3b> pkhuong: out of curiosity, would it get any more information from typecase? 03:20:59 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.122] has joined #lisp 03:21:59 nope. 03:23:52 wivlaro [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:27:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:30:13 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:18 hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:39 pnq [~nick@ACA23303.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:08 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:38:23 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joined #lisp 05:59:07 bwright_ [~bwright@uberwolf.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:34 -!- bwright_ [~bwright@uberwolf.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:59:56 Is it safe in all implementations: (loop for x in list do (when ... (remove x list :count 1)) finally return list)? 06:00:25 (loop for x in list do (when ... (remove x list :count 1)) finally (return list)) 06:01:35 vozhyk_: sure it's safe. It might not do what you want, though. 06:01:59 Is it unspecified? 06:04:34 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:06:17 xan_ [~xan@dslb-084-058-025-255.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:12 vozhyk_: remove does not mutate its argument list. It returns a new one. 06:09:56 sorry, I meant (setf list (remove x list :count 1)) 06:10:23 pkhuong: ^ 06:12:49 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:50 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:14:01 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:19:03 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:19:19 vozhyk_: yes this is safe. 06:19:29 remove doesn't mutate the list. So it's ok. 06:19:48 On the other hand, it's O(n^2)... 06:20:30 vozhyk_: why don't you just write (remove-if (lambda (x) ...) list) ? 06:20:40 the ... being the condition after when. 06:21:02 pjb: I want to remove specific keyword args 06:21:17 Whatever. 06:21:31 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has joined #lisp 06:21:32 You loop didn't remove specific keyword args. 06:21:49 It was just an example 06:21:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-31.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:53 :) 06:22:03 remf 06:22:08 clhs remf 06:22:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_remf.htm 06:22:09 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-31.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:24 pjb: Thanks 06:23:01 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 06:23:01 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 06:23:01 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:23:25 <_3b> don't use that directly on &rest arguments though, copy them first 06:23:52 <_3b> or rather, use it on a copy 06:23:56 _3b: thank you 06:27:34 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:29:31 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:54 good morning 06:31:26 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:32:04 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 06:42:33 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has joined #lisp 06:47:41 -!- LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: LimitSupremum] 06:48:17 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:48:26 LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:27 __class__ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:21 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has joined #lisp 06:58:27 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:03:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:07:41 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD719.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 07:09:45 markskilbeck [~mark@host86-152-37-88.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:09:47 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:09:47 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host86-152-37-88.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:09:47 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 07:10:09 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:13:23 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has joined #lisp 07:14:06 jdz [~jdz@host16-89-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:14:13 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:14:39 poindont` [~user@122.176.246.27] has joined #lisp 07:16:21 -!- poindontcare [~user@122.161.84.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:17:27 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:48 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-217-226.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:20:46 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:47 -!- bwright [~bwright@uberwolf.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:24:55 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:25:59 -!- vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@178.125.215.28] has left #lisp 07:26:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:13 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-145-43.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:31 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:32:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-31.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:33:39 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has joined #lisp 07:34:54 Good morning! 07:36:25 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-145-43.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:37:43 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:29 good morning serichsen ;) 07:38:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:39:27 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:11 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:28 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:42:13 -!- jdz [~jdz@host16-89-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:48:25 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:03 is there a portable "parse-float" function somewhere? 07:50:14 freiksenet: googling for "lisp parse-float" shows a couple. There's also parse-number. 07:50:15 <_3b> i think there is a library called parse-number that does that 07:51:55 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23303.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:57 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:52:11 ok, thanks 07:52:43 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:54:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@dslb-084-058-025-255.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:59:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:09 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:03:01 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:03:42 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:14 tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has joined #lisp 08:10:46 markskil1eck [~mark@host81-132-124-197.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:47 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined 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timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:56 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:08:39 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:44 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:11:14 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-171-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:12:09 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.187] has joined #lisp 13:12:34 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:14:59 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890288.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:15:57 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:16:16 -!- hyoyoung [~morris@210.117.152.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21:57 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20FD9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:22:20 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:22:23 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:24:35 pnq [~nick@ACA20FD9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:02 oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has joined #lisp 13:25:11 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 13:25:37 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-132-124-197.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:27:37 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@46.158.126.213] has joined #lisp 13:27:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:29:02 is it possible to get a subsequence of an array without creating a new sequence like subseq does ? 13:29:27 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 13:29:47 kiuma: maybe you want a displaced array? 13:29:49 kiuma: a displaced array is a little like that. 13:30:03 displaced array? 13:31:00 kiuma: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/26_glo_d.htm#displaced_array - see also make-array 13:31:14 how do I 'create' it ? 13:31:22 kiuma: make-array 13:31:32 ah the same , ok thx 13:31:40 *same way 13:34:01 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27352d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:35:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:35:45 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:36:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:36:08 I see only :displaced-index-offset what if I need the first n elements of the original array ? 13:36:27 kiuma: you better read the complete documentation. 13:36:28 change the access function ? 13:37:24 got it :) 13:37:39 wormwood [~wormwood@c-174-48-233-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:43 kiuma: what do you need this functionality for? 13:37:50 kiuma: cltl has a long description, too. 13:38:56 Xach, it's an http parser (http request is stored into an array) 13:39:44 kiuma: What will you do with the displaced array that you do not want to do with the full array? 13:40:20 I think I'd better to refacto my %parse-header function 13:40:48 cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has joined #lisp 13:40:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has quit [Changing host] 13:40:48 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:41:09 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: gone] 13:41:30 Xach, the array is bigger than bytes read and the parser should stop at the latest read byte 13:41:35 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 13:41:59 I think I'd better to refactor my parser function 13:42:18 kiuma: maybe you want an array with a fill pointer instead. but refactoring is probably even better. 13:42:37 -!- nicdev_away is now known as nicdev 13:42:39 yep 13:43:11 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:19 thigs will get more complicated when I'll have to parse the body 13:44:11 I'm writing an event-based/threading-queue hybrid http server with iolib 13:44:51 s/with/on top of/ 13:45:36 a chalenge game :) 13:45:46 *challenge 13:45:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:46:40 paid by Santa Claus 13:48:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-dev] 13:49:53 kiuma: I'm still planning to extend our web server with the same... :) but for that first I'll add an iolib.posix/cc which will implement a mostly transparent continuation based connection multiplexing. also paid by santa... :) 13:50:42 I've done a proof of concept for iolib, and the server is written with that in mind, but it all needs to be wired together, finished, and tested 13:51:01 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20FD9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:07 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 13:55:20 btw, I also had some trouble to fit in cgi support, because it needs to leave the body intact in the network stream when calls the cgi script (or at least provide the body in the form of a posix pipe). keep that in mind if you want cgi support... 13:55:57 that's when I decided to not use the lisp stream api for parsing the request, but rather use posix calls 13:56:26 pnq [~nick@ACA20FD9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:36 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:00:45 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-11-193.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:45 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-222.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:05:39 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ndoeaezvppebfbzc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:06:13 So I can use DESCRIBE to pull up documentation on operator and even special variables. Can I use it, or anything else, to pull up docstrings associated with packages? systems? quicklisp distributions? asdf packages? 14:06:37 I'm just wondering if there are any standard forms of package-level documentation besides hunting down a README file in the root directory containing the package's source code.... 14:06:40 algal: DESCRIBE is a generic function and can be extended. in practice i don't think it's extended much. 14:07:00 oops, I'm thinking of DOCUMENTATION. 14:07:07 And DESCRIBE-OBJECT. 14:08:41 Xach: Hmm, ok, thanks.. 14:08:47 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:07 But for any extension to be useful, people would need to be conforming to some standard w/r/t/ where they put package-level documentation strings, yes? 14:09:29 algal: DEFPACKAGE takes a :documentation option. 14:09:47 I don't know how widely used it is. I didn't know about it until recently. 14:10:15 Joreji [~thomas@75-109.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:10:19 Xach: ahh, interesting. 14:10:47 hi peeps 14:10:54 A shame it's not widely used. Kind of takes you out of your REPL flow to go hunting in the filesystem & google for a basic orientation on a new package.. 14:11:40 algal: I hope to make that easier with the quicklisp documentation project 14:12:30 Xach: That sounds awesome. Anywhere I can learn more. 14:12:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has left #lisp 14:13:04 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:05 This is actually the problem I'm trying to solve. I find stuff from within QL but then I get buried in the weeds trying to find out what it does roughly, how solid it is, etc.. 14:13:15 -!- nicdev is now known as nicdev_away 14:13:23 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/ 14:13:54 algal: I hope to both make it very easy to get documentation for a given project and to collect and share feedback about a project (e.g. reviews, ratings). 14:14:11 Much remains to be done 14:15:00 It sounds terrific. Xach, sometimes I feel like you were sent down to earth by CL's guardian angel 14:15:04 :) 14:16:25 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:17:11 Well that's mighty kind of you 14:19:23 hyoyoung [~morris@210.117.152.122] has joined #lisp 14:21:17 Speaking of ratings/reviews, is there any protocol now for advising if a QL dist is both broken and abandoned? (I just chased down a maintaner who said as much.) 14:21:54 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:22:03 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27352d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:22:11 (not trying to create trouble. just wondering.) 14:23:08 Opening a ticket on github is preferred 14:23:13 What project was it? 14:24:07 -!- nicdev_away is now known as nicdev 14:25:32 xarray 14:26:25 I think Tamas has moved that line of work into cl-num-utils ( not to be confused with cl-numlib ) 14:27:16 At least, that's what he mentioned in an email. 14:30:25 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27352d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:30:49 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27352d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:01 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27352d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.40.66] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20FD9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:35:32 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 14:36:50 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 14:39:10 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:39:17 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27352d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:17 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:42:30 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:43:19 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.40.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:32 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.17] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.17] has quit [Changing host] 14:44:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:50:20 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.40.66] has joined #lisp 14:53:00 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-11-193.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: algal] 14:53:35 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27162d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:55:51 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RenJuan] 14:55:58 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:07 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:00 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:21 Hello 15:03:31 hello 15:03:47 I was just wondering. 15:03:52 Did cl-pro shut down? 15:03:57 loke: no. 15:04:05 H4ns: did it move? 15:04:10 loke: no. 15:04:19 H4ns: so what changed? 15:04:23 loke: nothing. 15:04:33 Hmm... I haven't seen any updates for a couple of weeks 15:04:40 loke: that's a good thing! 15:04:49 (reading from news.gmane.org, or via the web site) 15:05:00 H4ns: why? 15:05:24 loke: because everyone gets some time off during their summer vacation. 15:05:39 H4ns: Umm... but not a single post for 2 or so weeks? 15:05:44 loke: That is normal. 15:05:56 loke: If you wish to see activity, write something of quality and share it. 15:06:01 loke: check the archives: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/pro/ 15:06:21 loke: note how there were 0 postings in august 2010 15:06:31 Xach: I don't have anything of quality to write. I just like reading what others have to say. I prefer to only speak when I have something intelligent to say 15:07:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:38 Xach: By the way, there are a lot of QL packages that have wrong dependencies... Mostly, it can be seen if you try to quickload a package XXX-TESTS or XXX-EXAMPLES, and it will fail because package XXX is not there. Manually loading that one first fixes it. It seems to be very common that XXX-{TESTS,EXAMPLES} don't have a dependency on its parent package 15:09:20 loke: packages are namespaces. You're probably thinking about systems. 15:09:26 loke: Can you give me a specific example? 15:09:38 Xach: sure, let's see... 15:09:51 loke: I've seen that pattern in cases where people stuff the defsystem for foo-test right into the .asd 15:09:57 I'm guilty of doing that, myself. 15:09:59 hunchentoot-test is an example. 15:10:08 Ah yes, that's due to a "recent" change 15:10:27 sheeple-tests is another example 15:10:33 Quicklisp now apes asdf's behavior and will only load systems that could be reached with find-system, e.g. they have the same name as the file in which they are defined. 15:10:34 told you :) 15:10:50 (that I'm guilty) 15:11:17 loke: I don't think that will change any time soon. 15:11:35 I might change things to filter them out of apropos results, or something. 15:12:24 There was at least one package that had some dependency on another 3'rd party package, that I had to manually quickload before it worked. Can't remember which one it was though 15:12:30 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:41 The dependency was on ironclad(?) 15:12:55 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:13:14 loke: I go to a lot of trouble to capture dependency info even if it is not explicit, so please report any trouble you have to me. 15:13:42 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:55 flip215 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 15:13:56 -!- flip215 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 15:13:56 flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 15:14:03 Xach: I can't remember I'm afraid. If I see it again I'll let you know. 15:14:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:14:53 -!- flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:08 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-161-76.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 15:16:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:33 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:18:54 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:13 -!- misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:33 am0c_ [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 15:20:00 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 15:21:07 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:21:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:10 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27162d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:24:19 pnq [~nick@ACA242F3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:29 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:03 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-171-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:29:24 -!- jkantz_ [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:01 -!- TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:14 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-171-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:35 -!- nicdev is now known as nicdev_away 15:36:06 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:36:08 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.249.201] has joined #lisp 15:37:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A78F9.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:45 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27162d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:38:19 Any ideas for ECL and ASDF? I'm trying to (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ...), but I get "An error occurred during initialization: The variable MAIN is unbound.." for this file: 15:38:36 (in-package ...) (defun main () (print "running") (ext:quit 0) ) 15:38:57 benny [~benny@i577A78F9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:41 -!- LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: LimitSupremum] 15:42:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.40.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:43:13 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.249.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:44:36 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:45:31 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:23 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:50 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:59 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.14.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:38 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-190-77.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:56:42 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA242F3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:57:23 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 15:59:06 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.249.201] has joined #lisp 15:59:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:40 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:48 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:59:48 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 16:01:30 flip214, I usually use emacs and a , 16:02:49 flip214, If your REPL suddenly terminates like that. Why do you expect to see the text 16:03:51 well, I think that there's some problem getting CL-USER imported into my package ... then DEFUN is not known as a macro, and so MAIN is thought to be a variable. 16:04:06 flip214: sounds like the package you're in-packageing into doesn't have CL:DEFUN 16:04:11 but my has (defpackage ... (:use :cl-user)), so I'm not sure what's missing 16:04:12 also, do not import cl-user 16:04:21 there is nothing exported from that package 16:04:23 import CL 16:04:28 never cl-user 16:04:28 ah, right! that'll be it! 16:04:51 cool (: 16:04:56 mis-thought as I'm too often seeing cl-user on the REPL ;) 16:05:04 antifuchs, why should you have to. It is indicative of a much larger problem 16:05:08 better, now I get another problem 16:07:35 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 16:07:40 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 16:08:43 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.249.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:09:57 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:10:28 scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:28 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:10:28 scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 16:11:21 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:40 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 16:13:21 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:13:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:14:06 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:08 scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:08 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:14:08 scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:16:25 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:18:05 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:18:49 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:19:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:37 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 16:19:37 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:20:33 LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:22:05 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:22:09 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:22:51 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 16:23:06 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:23:57 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@c-174-48-233-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:23:57 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:24:02 rtoyg [~chatzilla@nat/google/x-qnxvvenlznbghfvz] has joined #lisp 16:24:37 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:20 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:21 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:26:56 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:27:05 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:28:00 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:48 Is there a way to get a list of all the functions in a package that expect a certain type for their first argument? 16:30:07 For instance, if I have a vector, can I get a list of all of the function that take a vector as their first argument? 16:30:16 algal: Not really. 16:30:17 generic functions or regular? 16:30:29 weirdo: was wondering about both, actually. 16:30:34 hmm... 16:31:08 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-48-99.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:31:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.186.23] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-dev] 16:33:15 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-kgqynsuxxqjohykq] has joined #lisp 16:33:16 Hmm.. So if I have an object of a given type (e.g., a vector) what's the best way to figure out what I can do with it? In the conventional OO languages, the methods hang off the object's class definition. And IDE's will give you autocomplete on the . operator. What's best way to do that sort of thing in CL? 16:34:08 (I remember hearing a talk by Simon-Peyton Jones (Mr. Haskell), where he was confessing to envy for the dot operator -- not because of the restricted dispatching model, but I think b/c of this use for namespace-management.) 16:34:30 algal: Packages are the way to organize related symbols and the things (functions, variables) they name. You learn the functions. 16:34:33 o_O you mean shorten the hints to only the commands applicable to the active context? 16:34:52 Well, you can find the generic functions which have a method specialized on a given class. 16:35:52 Slime has support for inspection, iirc. 16:35:54 anvandare: yes, where the "context" in this case is an object I know I wnat to use. 16:36:14 But that's not the context. 16:36:30 okay, then that's not what I mean. 16:36:35 The context is the operation you want to do. 16:36:47 I think this is probably the fundamental shift in thinking required. 16:37:00 i think he means when you have an object called X and you type x (where x is an instance of X) you get all the possible methods of x? 16:37:04 (foo a b) <- which of a and b is 'the context'? 16:37:11 Here's what I mean.. 16:37:13 X doesn't have methods. 16:37:14 Let's say I do 16:37:18 wormwood [~wormwood@c-174-48-233-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:29 Zhivago: it's a class :P classes have methods 16:37:36 No. They don't. 16:37:42 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 16:37:44 *anvandare* checks on OO 101 16:37:47 Generic functions have methods. 16:37:58 Yes, do that and stop confusing OO with C++. 16:38:13 common lisp people don't like to think that classes are at all associated with methods because the semantics are different 16:38:21 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 16:38:27 No, they're associated as discriminators for method selection. 16:38:39 but you can't say that a method belongs to a class. 16:38:42 (defvar *x* #(1 2 3 4 )) 16:38:46 in lisp, or in general? 16:38:52 (magic-operator *x*) 16:38:54 (foo a b) <- does foo belong to a's class or to b's class? 16:39:06 I want magic-operator to give me a list of all the operators that will be happy to take *x* as an argument. 16:39:21 Zhivago: that is unuseful pedantry in many cases 16:39:38 In this case, it's a fundamental point that needs to be grasped for everything else to make sense. 16:39:50 So, for instance, magic-operator would return a list including LENGTH, because I an do (length *x*) quite happily. 16:39:52 Otherwise you're going to go on trying to ram square blocks into round holes. 16:39:52 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:39:53 Zhivago: it is often useful to consider, as in that case, a as the "primary" or "self" 16:40:04 oGMo: I don't think that's often useful in CL. 16:40:07 But magic-operator would not include CAR in its returned list. 16:40:24 but... you type the operator before the object 16:40:31 unless you program right-to-left :> 16:40:33 Xach: i would contend that that confuses "useful" and "necessary" 16:40:36 anvandare: Yes. 16:40:44 algal: Have you looked at 'slime'? 16:41:17 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:41:20 oGMo: so gethash is a function for... arbitrary keys? 16:41:23 Zhivago: yes, I use slime. Is there a function there that does something like what I described? 16:41:31 pareidolia: there is a slime thing for that, M-x slime-who-specializes 16:42:03 pkhuong: again, useful vs necessary or universal 16:42:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:42:27 oGMo: I think thinking like that hurts rather than helps understand how to get a lot of mileage out of API design with generic functions. 16:42:54 Zhivago: that's it! Thanks. slime-who-specialzes == magic-operator 16:43:11 algal: Have fun. :) But please adjust your thinking. 16:43:15 oGMo: Perhaps one of those "think that way as a special case after you understand how it's not really that way" things. 16:43:35 Xach: possibly 16:44:00 jdz [~jdz@host196-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:44:32 it actually took me a bit of adjustment to think that way _in common lisp_ and not immediately jump to all possible method combination as a solution for everything 16:45:16 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:20 When I a method for package:foo on vectors, I'm not adding a method to vectors, I'm adding one to package. 16:46:13 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:47:04 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:48:01 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsfluff@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 16:48:33 -!- 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Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27162d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:39:53 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:40:59 -!- pareidolia [~michaelk@voncosel.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:35 -!- resu_ [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:58 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-28-62.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:48:23 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:48:50 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:21 *Xach* wishes tcr had more time for named-readtables 18:53:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:53:46 slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-5d86f8aa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:25 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-5d86f8aa.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 18:56:05 tcr seems to have dropped off the face of irc. 18:56:14 good for him! 18:56:36 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-sfpshzesngkpgiam] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:56:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:50 here's hoping less talking == more code. :) 18:57:12 but for teclo, which is secret-secret 18:57:19 :P 18:57:24 oh well. 18:57:32 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 18:57:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:01:25 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:02:58 Intensity [8kOhTKhv3s@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 19:05:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-190-77.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:08:39 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 19:08:49 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 19:08:53 hello. is there something like sequencep in standard lib? 19:09:12 there's (typep x 'sequence) 19:09:27 ah yes I forgot, thanks 19:09:48 is that prefered way when using CLOS? I'm kind of used to typep 19:10:15 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:10:20 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:10:39 preferred way to do what? 19:11:02 to defining my-type-p function 19:11:28 there's no other way 19:12:20 well I meant (defun my-type-p (x) (typep x 'my-type)) 19:12:25 that's what structs do by default 19:12:30 stassats: sure there is, you can use methods :) 19:12:53 shaggy-: you don't really need that most of the time 19:13:11 shaggy-: you want to know whether or not you should define a function called my-type-p, right? 19:13:40 yeah I'm asking if typep x 'type is prefered with CLOS 19:13:45 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 19:13:50 over defining my-type-p function 19:13:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:11 it's preferred to make your code not needing to check types 19:14:25 shaggy-: well, when would you want te know the type of the object? will it ever occur? 19:15:01 In situations where I've cared, I think I've used typecase/etypecase more often than whateverp. 19:15:52 i only had to use [e]typecase in conjunction with CLOS when dealing with built-in classes, since CLOS works only on classes, not on types 19:16:30 resu_ [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 19:16:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:47 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 19:16:50 and built-in type hierarchy is broader than class hierarchy 19:16:56 I had to know type of the argument at least three times in the past few days 19:17:26 shaggy-: in that case: might it be that you tried to place something in a function that actually should've been a method? 19:17:48 hmm I think not 19:18:14 shaggy-: i guess it depends on how much you use it. if you continously need the types, then perhaps it's nice to define the function for it. though be warned, if you're doing it, you should look at the structure of your code. 19:18:42 ensure-list. map-lines/do-lines that accept either path or stream. and puts, a wrapper around format that appends a newline and can accept either a format string+args or &rest objects 19:19:03 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:19:46 any of the three sound unreasonable? I guess map-list/do-list is questionable 19:20:04 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-207-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:20:31 shaggy-: the function which you give to maplist could be a generic function 19:21:13 map-lines opens a file (if passed a string) and maps a function over the lines in it 19:21:39 and of what do you need the type in maplines? 19:22:05 you can pass it a string, path or a stream 19:22:46 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-207-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 19:23:10 my question still stands 19:23:51 I like having a single function/macro over two 19:24:24 ie map-lines-stream and map-lines-file 19:24:40 shaggy-: have considered using a generic function? 19:24:56 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_p.htm#pathname_designator Do you even need a generic function? 19:24:59 Am I reading this right? 19:25:01 pkhuong: that's what we're talking about :) 19:25:11 You can just use with-open-file to cover all 3 of those cases. 19:25:25 sykopomp: with-open-file works on streams as well? 19:25:40 "a stream associated with a file" 19:25:45 haven't tried it, though :) 19:25:53 sykopomp: well, that's not just any stream 19:25:56 -!- resu_ [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:58 sykopomp: stream probably isn't quite right. "denoting the pathname used to open the file". 19:26:20 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:38 you mean having a generic function and two methods? I guess I could have done that, don't really see the advantage though? 19:26:47 hmm. needs to be a synonym for the file. 19:27:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:32 shaggy-: it separates the code, making it extensible. you'll be able to accept even different formats in the future (like a QR code, which then links to a stream) 19:28:07 yes true 19:28:33 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-34.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:58 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 -!- Guest19592 is now known as am0c 19:29:45 same advantage as usual: you get to split the code in smaller units, no need to write and debug your own dispatch logic (or for readers to read it), and it can be extended easily, including by others. 19:29:57 didn't think of extensibility, that's a big advantage 19:31:15 in theory, anyway. 19:31:19 pkhuong: the downside is, imho, that you need to jump through a gazilion loops of super-small functions in order to see what's actually going on. The issue with that being that you need to jump to each and every one of them. Sometimes I prefer not to use generic functions for that reason, I guess it's evil. 19:32:51 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 19:33:10 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27162d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:31 if you need to jump through hoops, then your design is bad 19:39:39 he said nothing about hoops! 19:40:02 loops, hoops, whatever 19:40:40 *stassats* name his next-best-loop-replacement "hoop" 19:41:41 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:57 you might inspire an anti-hoop library, hooples 19:45:06 call it roundabout :P 19:45:13
Xach: Do you think that library could help me with my boss? ;) 19:45:34 *dl* is jumping thru too many hoops! 19:47:05 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:49:12 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:49:51 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:49:51 just rewrote my concat function with generics instead of checking for types. it was a lot easier to implement 19:50:42 thanks for the heads up 19:51:53 yay for another success story 19:51:56 there is concatenate btw 19:53:01 yes I know, it's actually a wrapper around concatenate, I wanted something more concise 19:53:16 H4ns_ [5b3d47f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.71.245] has joined #lisp 19:54:24 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-48-99.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:48 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-48-99.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:55:06 (concat "foo" "bar") => "foobar" (concat '(1 2 3) 4) => '(1 2 3 4) (concat 'vector "a" "b") => #(#\a #\b) 19:55:21 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:22 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890288.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:01 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:58:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:04 capivara [~capivara@186.215.32.100] has joined #lisp 19:59:36 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:59:42 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:59:43 and (concat 1 2 3 4) => 1234? 20:00:10 -!- plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:00:16 :D 20:00:20 stassats +1 20:00:54 :). it's an error. first argument is either a sequence or sequence type 20:01:12 (concat '(vector 3) #\f #\o #\o) 20:01:13 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 20:01:49 [ now someone is going to tell me that I've got the type syntax wrong and I really meant '(simple-array t (*3)) ] 20:02:13 ok not a sequence type, but a sequence symbol concatenate accepts 20:02:21 as the first argument 20:03:01 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 (ql:quickload :caveman) works for you? 20:05:22 LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:58 urandom__ [~user@p548A44CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:20 otwieracz: it loads for me. 20:07:24 Error while invoking # 20:07:25 on # 20:07:51 Which implementation of CL? 20:08:53 SBCL. 20:09:09 do you have odd printer or reader settings that might be interfering? 20:09:30 not all code is written defensively against :invert, for example 20:09:54 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:11:19 I don't understand. 20:12:51 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:47 the actual error might help 20:14:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:15:08 http://otwieracz.gen2.org./screen.jpg 20:15:11 http://otwieracz.gen2.org/screen.jpg 20:16:02 your thingies are printing in lower case where in a lisp with default settings they would print in upper case 20:16:13 e.g. # 20:16:44 otwieracz: remove *print-case* from your sbcl startup. I had a similar problem recently. 20:18:29 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:41 does lisp have a mascot? 20:20:58 The alien, I suppose. 20:21:22 tempire: http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html 20:23:31 needs more sunglasses 20:23:38 "this thing's got lisp inside it, buckle up!" 20:24:18 sunglasses on that blob of eyes? 20:25:44 make it so! 20:25:57 man it kind of sucks that SBCL error messages and debug info for macroexpanded code, rely on 'eq hash table of the forms 20:26:15 ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:26:18 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:28 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 20:26:28 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 20:26:28 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 20:26:54 like if my macro does (t (cons (my-macro (car forms) (my-macro (cdr forms))))) then any error messages just point to the top of the form 20:27:59 but if I go through the trouble of verifying if inner forms got changed, and if not return original form instead of a newly consed one, then error message and source debugging is fine 20:28:23 this is also big problem with iterate, impossible to figure out errors inside of large iterate construct 20:28:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:33 *maxm* tried changing the obvious place in the compiler a while ago to 'equal hash table, but it broke CLOS in horribly subtle ways 20:29:46 maxm: if you can devise a more robust heuristic, please do. 20:30:16 In the mean time, EQL has the advantage of reducing false positives/locations from common forms. 20:31:16 well would not just comparing stuff with (equal) work? I have it on my todo list, to patch (iterate) to macroexpand itself first, and then brute force the expansion, replacing anything that #'equal to original form with the original, to make debug and error messages work better 20:32:04 equal fails on repeated forms. 20:32:16 *maxm* was actually happy with the (equal) patch, it worked as expected, but broke CLOS, and I could not figure out how 20:33:02 (it also fails on circular structure) 20:34:24 yea I know, not as easy to fix as seems from the first glance :-\ 20:35:06 seems writing macros carefully to return as much original stuff as possible is a workaround, i re-did mine 20:42:19 otwieracz: actually http://otwieracz.gen2.org./screen.jpg is legal and more efficient than http://otwieracz.gen2.org/screen.jpg 20:42:32 otwieracz: the final dot is dns notation for absolute domains. 20:42:50 Hmm. 20:42:55 otwieracz: without it, the resolver must try to search the domain, appending each domain in the search path. 20:44:05 otwieracz: now, of course, if you want to have fun, start giving to users urls with absolute domain names :-) 20:44:14 or with CamelCase. 20:44:16 :) 20:44:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:53 pjb: I'll remember! 20:45:35 But, what about my problem? 20:45:46 shaggy-: so you're making functions that accept "designators" for whatever object you should actually be passing in the first place 20:48:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 20:49:11 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-126-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:50:24 otwieracz: It looks like a normal bug. Try debugging it. 20:50:34 otwieracz: I don't know caveman nor cl-syntax, so... 20:50:43 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:51:34 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:51:40 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-171-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:53 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:13 acelent yes like standard concatenate, except it's optional. now that I think about it I could avoid designators and pass an empty sequence instead if I want a concatenated sequence of a different sequence type than the first argument 20:54:30 remind me what is lisp's equivalent of C's ^? 20:54:37 logxor. 20:54:38 expt? 20:54:52 it's logxor, thanks 20:54:52 or bit-xor for bit-vectors. 20:56:41 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:54 sebyte [~sebyte@chimera.gnukahvesi.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:33 how do you map over an improper list, e.g. '(a b .c )? 20:59:49 sorry '(a b . c) 21:01:15 shaggy-: what are the contamination prevalence rules? i.e. if there's an argument that is a vector, is the result a vector? 21:03:38 -!- H4ns_ [5b3d47f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.71.245] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:05:17 sebyte: you have to do it yourself 21:05:27 result has the same type as the first argument 21:07:28 acelent: how though? using do I suppose... 21:10:12 sebyte: that's one way. just don't use `endp' 21:13:09 shaggy-: oh, ok so the empty sequence would be the first argument. that's fine for lists, because the empty list is `nil', but for vectors it seems to imply consing 21:13:51 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@c-174-48-233-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:14:43 acelent: "oh noes, I'm consing a zero-element vector before consing up the concatenation of a couple non-empty sequences"? I wouldn't worry too much about that. 21:14:56 pkhuong: why not? 21:17:39 pkhuong: this is effectively wrapping the type in an empty vector to later obtain the same information you could pass directly to cl:concatenate 21:17:41 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75efb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:42 pkhuong: hm, but i guess you're generally right, and one could also use #. 21:17:56 acelent: what are the other ways? 21:19:15 sebyte: do, do*, loop, a tail-recursive function, a recursive function 21:19:30 sebyte: i mean, it's not that hard. try it with do 21:20:06 acelent: sometimes you want make-sequence-like, sometimes you know the type ahead of time 21:20:30 acelent: thanks 21:20:32 it depends, and both can be useful. I wouldn't base my decision to implement one or the other on a fear of consing. 21:20:43 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has quit [Quit: npoektop] 21:20:46 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:23:41 seangrove [~user@173-228-88-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:52 pkhuong: neither would i. however, i would avoid using empty sequences to specify the type by using cl:concatenate directly, and i wouldn't make the concat that makes a sequence like the first also be able to receive a type, because specialized sequence types are described using a list, e.g. '(vector fixnum) 21:25:03 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:25:34 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7D1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:45 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 21:27:50 in general, i'm trying to advice caution about designators 21:28:21 acelent: nobody says the dispatch argument has to be an empty sequence. It could just be an argument that you're working with. 21:28:51 one that i dislike mostly is the string designator, because i'd prefer `nil' to not be a string designator 21:29:12 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 21:29:49 i like that one especially much 21:30:23 Xach: why? 21:31:00 pkhuong yes the common case would be (concat "foo" "bar") => "foobar" 21:31:46 I'll drop the designator as the first argument, had no idea you can pass something like '(vector fixnum) to concatenate until now 21:32:36 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:42 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:34:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@host196-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:34:34 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 21:37:56 -!- faust45 [~faust45@77-52-106-228.dialup.umc.net.ua] has quit [Quit: faust45] 21:38:24 [repost from #emacs:] Is it possible to enable fontlock/syntax highlighting in the Slime REPL? 21:40:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:28 antoszka: the REPL already has fontlocking. But it's not the same as for lisp sources. 21:41:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:04 antoszka: you would need to patch slime (or perhaps there's something in slime contribs). 21:42:07 pjb: Yeah, I realised that, thought there might be an extension to fontlock the typed code the same way, as in the lisp sources. 21:42:18 thx 21:42:19 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 21:43:57 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:44:07 hi 21:44:08 antoszka: I find the fontlocking in the REPL useful for REPL purposes. It helps distinguish the different streams displayed. 21:45:02 serichsen: Perhaps fontlocking it buffer-like would make too messy, but I'd still like to test it on me. 21:45:09 s/make/make it/ 21:45:41 Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has joined #lisp 21:46:23 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-222.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:11 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:05 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:49:47 Well, input to the lisp prompt in the REPL can only be code, so it wouldn't hurt to fontlock it as lisp code. Other inputs and outputs can stay fontlocked as they are now. 21:54:20 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 21:55:05 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:56:45 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:59:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-190-77.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:27 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 22:01:34 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:01:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:01:57 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:04:02 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75efb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:11 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:03 how do I assign a default value to a function's argument? 22:12:12 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:29 (lambda (&optional (foo "default")) foo) 22:13:04 must use a lambda function I guess 22:13:09 ? 22:13:33 That was just an example, defun forms use the same lambda lists. 22:13:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-28-62.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:55 was hoping for (defun fn (arg "default") 22:14:11 (defun fn (&optional (arg "default")) 22:14:14 that's just invalid code 22:14:44 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.249.201] has joined #lisp 22:14:55 which is invalid? 22:15:02 what you wrote 22:15:16 oh, right, left off a ")" 22:15:28 It's invalid anyway, it has "default" as an arg name 22:15:37 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:44 z1l0g: &optional 22:16:08 yes, I'm learning the basics right now; didn't see an obvious way to set a default arg value 22:16:15 ty 22:16:15 z1l0g: required arguments don't have defaults 22:18:05 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-25-142.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:19:17 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:19:54 super; was trying to write a (shell) func to stick in .eclrc that would spawn a shell if no arg was given 22:20:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:42 z1l0g: In that case, you'll want to use the third value of an optional argument, not just a default. 22:22:05 (defun shell (&optional (program "/bin/sh")) (spawn-whatever program)) 22:22:24 or that... 22:22:24 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06ffc9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:23:21 right, that's what I did. thx 22:24:05 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 22:25:24 hypercube32 [~hypercube@231.125.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:11 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:14 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:45 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-250-15.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 22:27:51 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:30:55 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:32:31 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:19 acelent: playfulness 22:34:43 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:37:09 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:17 -!- LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:38:17 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-250-15.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:38:51 Guthur [~michael@212.183.128.4] has joined #lisp 22:39:11 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 22:42:49 pnq [~nick@ACA3575E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:32 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:43:51 -!- capivara [~capivara@186.215.32.100] has quit [Quit: capivara] 22:44:41 -!- bandu [~furfag@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:44:53 sellout [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:16 capivara [~capivara@186.215.32.100] has joined #lisp 22:47:30 i am running postmodern and all of a sudden the dates went for a ball of crap 22:48:05 now i know there is the whole thing about loading the simple date glue manually to get simple dates to work 22:48:17 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 22:49:24 but that is being done but just all of a sudden on 3 different computers at some where after 00:30 everything went for a ball of crap 22:49:28 ??? 22:50:28 is it witching hour or what? 22:52:24 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:26 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:52:26 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 22:53:11 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:46 -!- capivara [~capivara@186.215.32.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:56:27 "Lisp is like a ball of crap..."? 22:56:38 lol 22:56:51 no the dates in postmodern is all of a sudden 22:57:10 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:57:24 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:58 is there a naming convention for a function that returns a function? for example (defun integer-in (start end) (lambda (x) (< start x end)) 22:58:07 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:00:29 Harag, im pretty new to postmodern myself, but if you want other people to help you, you'll need to be a bit more precise than "a ball of crap" 23:03:51 -!- seangrove [~user@173-228-88-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:04:24 shaggy-: I haven't seen anything concrete. I would prefix that with make-. 23:04:26 sorted it out deleted all fasl's and all is back 23:05:09 the ball of crap is instead of returning a simple-date object for dates it returns a large integer 23:05:28 Harag: we've been using postmodern pretty heavily for nearly the past year, and it's worked pretty well. I haven't seen dates turn into balls of feces yet. 23:05:42 can you be more specific about the characteristics of this feces? Perhaps the texture? 23:06:51 this is something that happens every now and again and allways the response is that you need to manually load the glue for simple date but that has been the same for months 23:07:35 and i use postmodern only for db for the last 4 years and this happens every couple of months 23:08:03 but it has been the first time that i have had failures on more than one dev box at the same time 23:08:13 all with in minutes 23:08:38 Is there feces stored in or near the dates? 23:08:44 perhaps you have a leak 23:08:51 :P 23:09:42 seriously even stass ran into this problem this week and posted on postmodern mailing list 23:13:12 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 23:13:29 and it is was only after i deleted the fasl's for postmodern itself that everything worked again 23:15:03 runix [~runix@0116100055.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 23:16:05 this usually happens on dev systems where you are coding and recompiling the whole time...touch wood i have not had it on a production system yet 23:16:22 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 would there be a way to anilize the fasl's to find this kind of problem? 23:18:13 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:18:51 Hi, can anyone explain me why I apparently got an infinite loop in http://paste.lisp.org/+2NRO - the function is feeded with an array/vector with boolean values and by doing some printout debugging (eql index nil) should return t. 23:22:42 Are you trying to know which indices on the vector are t? 23:23:23 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:30 up 23:23:32 yup* 23:24:50 Xach: hwo do you find it playfully that the symbol `nil' means the string "NIL", other than in the return of `symbol-name'? 23:25:00 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-207-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:25:15 ltriant_ [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:25:33 runix: check annotation 23:26:28 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:26:33 -!- ltriant_ is now known as ltriant 23:27:19 or just (loop for i from 0 below (length v) when (elt v i) collect i) 23:27:57 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-207-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:28:09 okay, thanks :) 23:29:57 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:31:38 -!- shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:31:45 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:21 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:16 -!- bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:16 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:04 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:11 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:16 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:29 -!- sellout [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:46 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 23:48:43 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:02 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: "#lisp rocks!"] 23:51:00 -!- ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:53:23 drdo: or (coerce v 'list) 23:54:16 jj 23:55:49 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 23:57:11 pjb: That's a list of booleans, not a list of which indices of the vector are t 23:57:52 sellout [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:53 right. 23:58:40 bandu [~furfag@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:45 -!- bandu [~furfag@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:58:45 bandu [~furfag@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp