00:00:48 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-2-171-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:02:56 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8FD2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:05 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-2-171-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:53 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:10 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:53 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:17 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:59 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:11:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:18 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:15:53 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:17:32 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:18:01 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 00:19:16 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@146.247.161.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:17 -!- guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:18 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-100-236.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:55 guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has joined #lisp 00:26:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-9.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29:11 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:29:40 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:41 wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:13 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:35 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81138C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:35:28 -!- wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:36:03 wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:34 dnolen [~davidnole@ool-ad02d909.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:45 pnq [~nick@AC8260D8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:46:44 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D2CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:46:47 -!- guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:48 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:00 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:02 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 00:53:21 -!- space-cadet [~jason@pool-173-60-69-202.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:21 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:21 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-73-51.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d0688ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-172-99.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:22 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-znhwycnamcnoppiz] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- guther [~guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:23 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:26 Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:27 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:28 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 00:53:28 kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:29 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 00:53:29 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:31 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:53:31 guther [~guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:38 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 00:53:50 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-172-99.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-73-51.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:55 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 00:54:03 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 00:54:11 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:54:11 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:15 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:19 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:55:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:56:16 space-cadet [~jason@pool-173-60-69-202.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:58 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:50 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:59:42 bohanlon [~bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:00:11 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:19 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:05:45 -!- dgiaimo [~dgiaimo@pool-96-237-60-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:05:45 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:10:00 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-169-177.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:10:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:13:09 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:13:45 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:13 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:14 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:14:14 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:15:15 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 01:15:50 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 01:15:56 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:21:51 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:19 hello all, is there a way to tell if a symbol represents a type? 01:22:29 i thought of typep, but that wasn't what I was looking for 01:22:40 something like (is-type 'integer) => t 01:23:49 kruhft: you can try and hack something up with subtypep, but I can always deftype or defclass or ... later on. 01:24:16 so no way really? 01:24:31 why do you need that? 01:24:35 basically i just want to make sure a symbol maps into the types table 01:24:48 i'm working on a macro, it's not needed but it would be good for error checking 01:25:14 it's a macro to allow you to define functions with return types and argument types 01:25:15 is that type going in a DECLARE expression? 01:25:19 yes 01:25:27 it generates the declare a declaims for you 01:25:31 Document that fact and let the implementation deal with it. 01:26:03 like i said, it's not necessary for the macro to work but it would allow me to give better error messages 01:26:17 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:51 actually, wouldn't (defun is-type (s) (subtypep s t)) work? 01:27:25 Try it. 01:27:44 doesn't seem to (is-type 'abc) returns true 01:28:11 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:11 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:35 ah, has my arguments turned around 01:28:43 really? 01:28:50 (defun is-type (s) (subtypep t s)) 01:29:02 returns (NIL NIL) for 'abc 01:29:07 and (NIL T) for 'integer 01:29:33 (defun is-type (s) (nth-value 1 (subtypep t s))) 01:29:36 looks like that will work 01:30:15 excellent, thanks for the subtypep hack idea :) not really much of a hack though 01:30:24 modulo satisfies types, or anything that the implementation decides to punt on. 01:30:29 Very much a hack. 01:30:39 should work for my uses 01:30:55 it doesn't seem like much of a hack though...every type is a subtype of t 01:31:30 That's not what you're testing. 01:33:31 then this is an odd function 01:33:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:42 why would it return (T T) for (subtypep 'abc t) 01:34:05 how can something that's not a type be a subtype of t? 01:34:05 You flipped the argument in your function. 01:34:17 i know, i'm getting back to fundamentals with the function 01:34:30 kruhft: why not? It could be a type at some other point. 01:34:30 i read the hyperspec a bit closer 01:34:54 Certainly, it will be whenever TYPEP returns successfully. 01:35:25 what do you mean by that? 01:36:00 For any object x such that (typep x 'abs), we'll also have (typep x t). 01:38:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-edzbaglhvfysatjy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:42:04 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:42:11 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:42:36 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 16] 01:42:46 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:42:48 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A558C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:27 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:58 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:08 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:50:43 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:35 Does CCL support singlestepping? 01:52:40 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:13 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:02:58 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:24 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.119.166] has joined #lisp 02:08:16 Some implementation consider that all symbols denote a type. 02:08:59 Ralith: no 02:10:44 dammit. 02:14:16 Trace does take some break args, though: 02:14:23 (trace (foo :before :break)) 02:14:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:32 Which works with Slime 02:16:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:23:39 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:25:04 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:26:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:06 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:05 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:36 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.192] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:32:35 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:58 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:47 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:38:43 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39:05 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:26 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:07 -!- wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:42:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:42:43 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:37 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@ool-ad02d909.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:48:39 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:04 super__ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:04 -!- super__ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:49:04 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 02:52:15 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:11 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:00:58 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:01:52 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B326A82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:33 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326875.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:43 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:04 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-71-150-252-22.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:08 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-71-150-252-22.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:06:15 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:10:32 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:53 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:53 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:14:53 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 03:15:41 -!- space-cadet [~jason@pool-173-60-69-202.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19:14 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:22:22 -!- guther [~guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:47 _pw_` [~user@125.34.49.129] has joined #lisp 03:25:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:27:29 -!- _pw_ [~user@123.112.73.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:27:46 guther [~guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:34 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tudexczfxxuksgvb] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:32:56 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:34:10 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:05 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:13 Good morning everyone! 03:39:01 morn' 03:39:35 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:57 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 03:40:21 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-193-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:45 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbboznuldirjcguf] has joined #lisp 03:43:08 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:45:15 good morning 03:48:18 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:40 hello ihyoyoung 03:50:50 I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 03:51:18 yeah 03:51:31 So what brings you to #lisp? 03:51:35 i'm a new comer. i joined 4 days ago. 03:52:13 Are you learning Lisp? 03:52:21 i'm a software engineer. my main lang is c. but i want to learn something 03:52:30 Good plan. 03:52:54 good plan indeed! 03:53:02 i'm reading on practical common lisp. lisp seems to be difficult but it's fun and easy 03:53:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:53:21 good choice of a text. 03:53:27 ihyoyoung: It is probably a lot less difficult than C. 03:53:31 i'm quite surprise. lisp programming is easy like python. 03:53:38 plage: you're right ;) 03:53:52 yeah, lisp has a very undeserved reputation of opacity 03:54:24 often people see "the syntax is different!" and don't look any deeper. 03:54:29 -!- davazp` [~user@162.Red-88-19-180.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:55:10 -!- cheier is now known as cheier^ 03:55:31 it's true. some ppl doesn't want to learn lisp but only criticize 03:55:43 space-cadet [~jason@pool-173-60-69-202.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:52 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:26 ihyoyoung: Are you planning to use Lisp for your work? 03:56:31 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:57:04 plage: sadly i can't. i'm working on a mobile device company. 03:57:38 Oh, you might want to chat with mvilleneuve who hang out here. He uses Lisp and he works for such a company. 03:57:53 if mobile cpu(in my case, arm processor) could run sbcl, it could be. 03:57:58 wow, it's news to me 03:58:16 CCL has a fully supported ARM port. I'm not sure what the status of SBCL is, but CCL is likely to serve your needs just fine. 03:58:28 ihyoyoung: I believe Clozure CL, clisp, and ecl all have ARM ports, actually. 03:58:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:59:39 interesting. i don't think even to try. maybe it's time to look 'em 04:00:06 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bufnvayillwqqnas] has joined #lisp 04:01:02 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 04:05:33 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-253.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 04:05:48 ihyoyoung: Also, there are other ways of using Lisp than to run them on the mobile device. For instance, you can generate code for the mobile device on an other machine. 04:06:58 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-253.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 04:08:05 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:08:08 ihyoyoung: What made you interested in Lisp? 04:08:24 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-192.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 04:12:58 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 04:15:45 -!- _pw_` [~user@125.34.49.129] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:15:56 -!- cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:16:17 _pw_ [~user@125.34.49.129] has joined #lisp 04:17:44 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:17:46 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has joined #lisp 04:25:11 -!- bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:40 hba [~hba@187.171.200.6] has joined #lisp 04:25:50 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.119.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:27:32 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:33 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:27:33 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 04:31:57 -!- cheier^ is now known as cheier 04:46:52 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:56:57 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-42-76.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:57:10 -!- Davidbrcz__ [~david@ANantes-151-1-188-228.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:59:10 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 04:59:45 benny [~benny@i577A88AF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:01:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-174.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:04:04 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.148] has joined #lisp 05:05:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:16 m__h__ [~m@213-238-69-60.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 05:10:31 ( hello ) 05:14:56 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 05:17:45 plage: i read "hacker and painter". i felt the writer exaggerate lisp. anyway, i thought trying could be helpful. 05:19:17 while writing a some script on lisp, i'm quitely surprise. it's agile like a python, sometime even better. 05:19:21 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:19:59 that's story is why i'm trying learn more lisp things. hehe 05:20:35 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:03 I see. 05:21:47 ihyoyoung: Lisp was inspiration for python and many other languages 05:21:57 Um. Not for python. 05:22:00 I just updated my linux desktop (among other packages, kernel is now 3.0.1), and now sbcl 1.0.50 segfaults at startup 05:22:01 Python was inspired by Abc. 05:22:12 Javascript, on the other hand ... 05:22:27 in gdb, the stacktrace starts in src/runtime/interrupt.c 05:22:27 I mean not the main inspiration 05:22:47 In many regards, python is anti-lisp in its design. 05:22:59 I don't think that's an argument that you can support, really. 05:23:02 in see_if_sigaction_nodefer_works(), kill(getpid(), SA_NODEFER_TEST_KILL_SIGNAL); seems to do the job and kill sbcl 05:23:28 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 05:23:34 I'm not going to support it 05:25:27 Zhivago: so you can go correct wikipedia ;) 05:25:55 I've found that putting "this page is wrong" in bright red writing helps. 05:26:32 The wikipedia page says "influenced by" 05:26:42 That's quite different to "inspired by". 05:27:01 That what I have in mind, I am not native english speaker 05:27:05 galdor: can you strace that? 05:27:10 Ok :) 05:27:52 Inspired means to "take in the breath/spirit" 05:28:07 pkhuong: sure 05:28:10 So it's a very strong claim about the fundamental origin of something -- fyi. 05:28:39 Zhivago: nvm, If I want to argue about meaning of words I would go to #english channel 05:28:49 ;) 05:29:05 Just helping you to avoid the error again. 05:29:11 (lisp.paste.org is screwed up, blank page when submitting) 05:29:20 *paste.lisp.org 05:29:22 Thank you 05:29:32 I have found it useful 05:29:32 pkhuong: http://pastie.org/2378982 05:29:48 galdor: looks like the uname issue, actually. 05:30:32 perhaps, I honestly don't know 05:30:47 I like wikipedia: "Python was conceived in the late 1980s" vs "Influenced by... Java" 05:31:02 cgdb seems to say that kill()-ing getpid() usually yield this kind of issue :p 05:31:09 Bug when parsing 3.0; You can try 05:31:17 galdor: no, SIGUSR1 is ignored. 05:31:26 oh it's SIGUSR1 05:31:27 ok 05:31:27 erh 05:33:31 ok, works for me 05:33:57 I suppose it will be fixed in 1.0.51 05:34:01 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:34:03 right. 05:34:20 ok, good 05:34:24 thank you for helping 05:34:41 would have been a bit annoying not being able to work until 1.0.51 05:37:52 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:38:52 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:33 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:44:31 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has left #lisp 05:48:34 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 05:49:11 depywork [~depy@router.agenda.si] has joined #lisp 05:49:37 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-42-76.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:49:45 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:51:52 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-9-145.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:55:58 -!- cheier is now known as cheier^ 05:58:16 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:09:01 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d0688ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:05 -!- cheier^ [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:16:38 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:19:37 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:22 El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:54 Good morning! 06:23:09 good morning 06:24:16 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #lisp 06:25:45 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 06:25:45 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 06:25:45 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:31:41 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:36:29 good morning 06:36:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:05 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 06:41:22 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD753.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:06 killerboy [~mateusz@178-36-134-133.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 06:44:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-168-254.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:44:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-168-254.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 06:44:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:45:30 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:45:40 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 06:48:33 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:49:17 -!- m__h__ [~m@213-238-69-60.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 06:51:20 theBlackDragon [~user@212.123.24.66] has joined #lisp 06:53:09 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 06:58:47 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:08:22 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@178-36-134-133.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:09:17 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:10:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:11:08 LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:13 -!- kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:16:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:20:22 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 07:22:25 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:23:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:26 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 07:25:11 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 07:28:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:49 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:41 -!- routebee [~norman@120.23.204.207] has left #lisp 07:32:41 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.200.6] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:33:02 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:47 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:36:48 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-31-2.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:10 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:39:29 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:41:37 misoczki [~misoczki@nergal.rocq.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 07:43:09 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43:52 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:44:02 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:17 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 07:47:06 xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:17 liyi [~liyi@bb121-6-207-88.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:51:49 -!- liyi [~liyi@bb121-6-207-88.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:27 __class__ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:31 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-100-236.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:10:55 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:11:45 sacho [~sacho@79-100-52-246.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:13:06 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 08:13:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 08:13:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:28:25 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8260D8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:28:49 ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:33 fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-175-232.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:37:59 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:38:36 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-9-145.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:39:46 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:41:14 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:41:40 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-15-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:42:05 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:26 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:06 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 08:46:46 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:47:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:17 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-15-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:29 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-24-1.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:53:26 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gvorspnyzszwgamn] has joined #lisp 08:56:21 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:59:44 slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d04285a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:56 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-24-1.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:15 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-31-2.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:03:34 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-188-121.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:04:41 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:05:15 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:08:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-174.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:43 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:16:37 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:39 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 09:20:31 alama [~jessealam@n138138.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 09:21:20 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-3-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:25:18 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 09:28:50 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-3-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 09:28:50 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:23 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-143.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:30:36 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d04285a.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 09:39:01 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:08 cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has joined #lisp 09:43:08 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has quit [Changing host] 09:43:08 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:44:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:48:32 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-188-121.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:49:36 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:54:00 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:34 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-197-191.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:59:10 jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:00:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:00:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dzfzmompcaiymfoc] has joined #lisp 10:07:24 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-22-106.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:07 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:21 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-143.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:10:15 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:12:34 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:13:58 -!- geoffhotchkiss [geoff@rancor.csh.rit.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:14:03 geoffhotchkiss [geoff@rancor.csh.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 10:14:09 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:17:18 -!- sellout [~Adium@rrcs-98-103-95-226.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:20:10 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 10:28:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:28:32 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:28:32 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 10:30:36 -!- lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:44 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:31:46 lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:32 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-197-191.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:34:52 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 10:35:52 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:39:06 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:39:15 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:41:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:46:58 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:47:10 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bufnvayillwqqnas] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:54:18 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 10:55:53 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:53 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EBAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:53 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:00:45 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9ECD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:01:32 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:01:48 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:02:22 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fzzfzpkofektnwqe] has joined #lisp 11:04:07 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:04:45 xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:05 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-143.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:06:44 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:02 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:05 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D1BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:02 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:18:50 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-22-106.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:20:12 -!- jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:21:13 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:43 X-Scale [email@89.180.191.196] has joined #lisp 11:22:09 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest14808 11:22:32 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:22:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:31 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-146.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:26:56 -!- Guest14808 is now known as X-Scale 11:32:00 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.162.100] has joined #lisp 11:34:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fzzfzpkofektnwqe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:36:11 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:06 ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.152.250] has joined #lisp 11:38:43 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.162.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:40:40 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:41:47 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:43:12 -!- LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: LimitSupremum] 11:45:15 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099141.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:49:45 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099141.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53:58 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 11:54:16 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-205-204.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:31 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:05 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:56:06 chturne [~chturne@87.114.254.141] has joined #lisp 11:57:19 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099141.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:57:41 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:16 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 12:07:01 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 12:07:26 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD4CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:27 -!- rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD4CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:07:27 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 12:07:37 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.187] has joined #lisp 12:09:03 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:33 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD4CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:33 -!- rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD4CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:09:33 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 12:14:11 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-205-204.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17:09 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-205-204.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:32 Q: how would you ask a random loop on a list ? 12:17:37 pnq [~nick@ACA23EC9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:03 naiv: your question does not parse, can you rephrase? 12:19:38 Well, I have a list and want to loop on a copy of this list with the same elements in random position (compared to the original list) 12:20:07 naiv: you first randomize the list, and then iterate on the result sequentially 12:21:02 naiv: "lisp list randomize elements 12:21:03 jdz, sure but I was thinking it may exists a CL (sort-random) function maybe. 12:21:16 naiv: no such function exists. 12:21:30 naiv: but google yields very good results with the query above. 12:21:45 alexandria:shuffle 12:22:23 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-205-204.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:14 H4ns: so does lazyweb, apparently. 12:23:30 sykopomp: *sigh* 12:23:35 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:23:45 silenius [~silenius@p5B16B230.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:51 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD753.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 12:24:18 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:25:22 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:25:48 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:18 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 12:26:30 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:27:15 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 12:27:48 epps [~epps@81-196-86-150.bucuresti.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 12:27:48 -!- epps [~epps@81-196-86-150.bucuresti.cablelink.ro] has quit [Changing host] 12:27:48 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 12:30:48 Thix, I will use fisher-yates - algorithm for random shuffle. Y.TAKENAKA 12:33:10 naiv: alexandria:shuffle already does that 12:33:46 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.116.223] has joined #lisp 12:33:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:48 fe[nl]ix: damn, I tried in but I guess I miswrite it, I though it wasn't implemented, but it is yes. Thx 12:35:51 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-3-211.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:36:41 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:46 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:25 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:40:25 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:55 oh no it insn't. 12:41:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:33 dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-yjnqrmiqarmheocx] has joined #lisp 12:41:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:45:22 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:47:51 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 12:50:13 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.116.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:23 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:59:48 dmytrish [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 13:00:05 -!- dmytrish is now known as EarlGray 13:00:52 -!- alama [~jessealam@n138138.science.ru.nl] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:00:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:41 xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:42 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-yjnqrmiqarmheocx] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:01:48 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:03:00 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD753.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:16:01 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:17:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:43 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 13:25:08 jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has joined #lisp 13:27:17 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 13:27:19 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-59-225.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:43 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23EC9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:28:36 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 13:28:49 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 pnq [~nick@ACA23EC9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:26 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:34:09 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-52-246.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:35:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:08 -!- chturne [~chturne@87.114.254.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:13 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-27-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:41 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:22 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23EC9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:44:50 pnq [~nick@ACA23EC9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:37 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.187] has joined #lisp 13:46:21 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:47 -!- ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:52 leyyer_su [~user@221.237.12.236] has joined #lisp 13:51:37 -!- SpitfireWP [~spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 13:53:29 SpitfireWP [~spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 13:53:44 -!- jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:54:45 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:54:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:55:29 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:56:27 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23EC9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:56:32 EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 13:56:56 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:37 jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has joined #lisp 14:00:22 sacho [~sacho@79-100-169-169.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:03:33 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:04 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: ciao] 14:16:02 kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:02 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-222.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:20:18 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:21:53 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23:18 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:36 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:23:50 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:23:54 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 14:24:14 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:26 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28:22 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:28:30 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:43 EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 14:29:08 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 14:30:55 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yfkzqkeogheasaty] has joined #lisp 14:37:00 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.34] has joined #lisp 14:37:20 -!- leyyer_su [~user@221.237.12.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:22 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:38:15 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:15 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:38:15 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 14:41:19 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:41:27 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:43:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-52-162.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:43:58 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:45:11 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:12 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 14:48:13 I'm looking for a way to define/use symbols in another package while still (in effect) in the current package... something like a "with-package". 14:48:23 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-27-202.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:49:36 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:11 jtza8: "use" the package, "import" the symbols into the current package, change packages within the file with IN-PACKAGE, or specify the package explicitly 14:50:17 jtza8: nothing like that. Use that other package, or go for explicit package::qualifiers 14:50:22 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 Ok, thanks. 14:51:24 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:52:49 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:03 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-143-65.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:56:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:00:58 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099141.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:06 -!- theBlackDragon [~user@212.123.24.66] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:01:24 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:01:51 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 15:02:56 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:04:09 jtza8: the question itself is a bit misguided -- your code is read by the lisp reader before it is executed, hence it is too late to fiddle with packages 15:04:22 jtza8: there is the package:(...) syntax which is not very well known. 15:04:56 H4ns: That's bascially what I was looking for, thanks. :) 15:05:02 jtza8: it sometimes is useful, although the expression in parentheses will be evaluated completely in the other package, so you'll have to qualify stuff in the original package. 15:05:09 jdz: I was looking for a reader-macro or something. 15:05:59 H4ns: that just blew my mind. I have no idea why I'd never run into that before! 15:06:22 :D 15:06:41 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:10:11 H4ns: perhaps that is implementation specific? Doesn't seem as though it works in SBCL... 15:11:13 eek. seems like it actually is ccl specific. sorry! 15:11:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:11:41 implementation leakage, like "" being a nickname for "KEYWORD". 15:11:48 is there a good way to make a shallow copy of a hashtable? anything sbcl specific? 15:11:48 gah! 15:12:03 i am seriously confused, ccl does not know that either it seems 15:12:07 Phoodus: alexandria has something, I think. 15:12:15 i hereby confess to have told something completely wrong again. :( 15:12:22 H4ns: n.p. Thanks though :) 15:12:35 H4ns: I've seen that trick before though. It must have worked somewhere. 15:12:48 pkhuong: yeah, i'm pretty sure i've used it, too. 15:12:55 oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has joined #lisp 15:12:59 Reader macro? 15:13:03 ah. it is a acl-ism 15:13:07 :) 15:13:09 H4ns: works in ACL, though! 15:13:16 aha 15:13:17 pkhuong: yeah, I do too in my utils, which just does a maphash, inserting to the new table 15:13:27 right, that's where i got that from. damn you, franz inc! 15:13:27 I can see if alexandria does anything smarter 15:13:33 H4ns: Ah. 15:13:36 probably not. Hard to do better portably. 15:13:50 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 15:17:16 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 15:17:30 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-192.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:04 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 15:19:16 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 15:19:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:01 xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:11 Phoodus: it should help to create a hash table of the right size, though 15:20:23 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:44 Or see if you can avoid the operation, with shallow binding, for instance. 15:21:42 rosario [~rosario@p57AE73FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:42 -!- rosario [~rosario@p57AE73FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:42 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 15:22:36 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 15:23:05 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:22 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:57 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:25:15 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:25:50 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-192.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:28:15 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-239-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:31:04 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-175-232.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:38 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:21 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:21 H4ns: haha, yeah. it's seriously handy, but not standard )-: 15:38:03 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:40:15 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:42:51 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 15:46:37 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:46:59 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:48:15 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 15:48:25 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.152.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:40 -!- misoczki [~misoczki@nergal.rocq.inria.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:58 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:50:15 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:18 -!- jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:52:27 *Fade* waves 15:53:29 hi Fade 15:53:37 -!- kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:17 heya, fe[nl]ix 15:55:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:33 chxane [~chxane@c-68-42-0-80.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:42 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:58 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-26-33.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:54 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:59:14 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:14 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:59:14 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 16:01:59 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:02:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-7.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:03:10 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-239-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:12 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 16:08:07 pnq [~nick@AC81B5FD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:41 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-26-33.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:51 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:58 http://blog.8thlight.com/steven-degutis/2011/08/15/future-of-lisp.html makes a bold assertion - is Clojure *really* the most popular Lisp today? 16:14:30 Never mind, the article seems way too trollish. 16:14:35 it really is 16:14:43 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:14:48 Article trollish, or Clojure popular, df? 16:14:49 'scheme is only useful for teaching and common lisp is C++ with parentheses' 16:14:57 Trollish, yes. 16:14:58 article trollish 16:16:20 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:20 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-192.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:54 I agree 16:22:01 I have no problems with parantheses in vim :) 16:22:13 tl;dr 16:22:15 Parantheses highlighting is pretty simple 16:24:21 EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:26:59 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:30:39 if clojure really catches on with estwhile java programmers, then it will be the largest lisp. 16:30:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:04 that said, the article looks to bait lispniks. 16:32:06 we should write more lisp software in anger. 16:32:18 (incf sykopomp) 16:33:43 s/estwhile/erstwhile 16:35:09 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:02 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81B5FD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:36:11 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:36:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:37:16 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:08 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:40:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:11 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.23] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:42:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:45:46 -!- CrEddy__ is now known as CrEddy 16:46:35 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:47:09 hum, from that blog ... I had never heard about Nu before. 16:47:41 seems to me that it would have been better as a library in CCL on top of their objectiveC bridge. 16:48:19 something something iOS, iirc. 16:48:35 it's an interpreted lisp built out of objectiveC 16:48:54 http://programming.nu/index 16:48:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:11 oh. I thought it just compiled down to ObjC 16:49:19 looks like it's a VM 16:49:21 considering it looks like ObjC with parentheses. 16:50:06 Fade: well, there's apparently an iPhone port 16:50:11 that'd be less practical with CCL 16:50:34 (would need ARM support, etc) 16:50:44 I guess.. although the CCL/arm port seems to be very active. 16:51:02 Nu has been around a long time; it supported the iPhone in 2008 16:51:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:51:25 i've been watching changes to the arm arch rolling into ccl, but have no platform on which to play with it 16:52:32 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-178-64-231-25.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 17:01:36 -!- michelp` is now known as michelp 17:01:50 jdz [~jdz@host176-107-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:03:02 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:13 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:29 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:29 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:07:29 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 17:08:20 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:13:18 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 17:14:15 silenius_ [~silenius@p5B169AFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:42 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has left #lisp 17:17:56 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-111-231.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:10 -!- silenius [~silenius@p5B16B230.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22:02 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:10 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 17:24:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dzfzmompcaiymfoc] has left #lisp 17:27:04 -!- michelp is now known as michelp-work 17:27:36 -!- michelp-work is now known as michelp 17:29:37 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-193-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:42 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:31:04 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-114-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:36 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:48 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-73-51.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.14/20110420230004]] 17:33:15 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:34:06 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 17:36:51 am0c [~am0c@175.198.234.210] has joined #lisp 17:37:03 HG` [~HG@p5DC04D3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:21 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:38:38 pnq [~nick@ACA242C4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:57 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 17:40:04 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 17:45:01 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:50 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:48:16 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:49:31 rosario_ [~rosario@p57AE73FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:42 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 17:49:47 -!- rosario_ is now known as rosario 17:49:55 -!- rosario [~rosario@p57AE73FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:49:55 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 17:50:20 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:27 agumonkey [~noob@136.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:40 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 17:52:41 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:08 rosario [~rosario@p57AE73FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:08 -!- rosario [~rosario@p57AE73FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:53:08 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 17:56:11 -!- tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:02 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:58:14 hi lispers 17:59:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:00:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:02:01 chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:04:49 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:06:01 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:57 urandom__ [~user@p548A5446.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:04 moshisushi [~henry@li272-164.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:09 -!- moshisushi [~henry@li272-164.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 18:14:21 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:40 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 18:18:08 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:19:55 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 18:25:58 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-94.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:27:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:31:57 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32:00 in SLIME, can you get a REPL at a break point? 18:32:21 like, can I insert a break and evaluate some lisp at that point, in that thread? 18:32:35 I wish I had a Lisp Machine. 18:32:59 sykopomp: perhaps with something like B in sldb? 18:33:16 sykopomp: just type in the REPL 18:33:18 sykopomp: try: C-h m to see the bindings available. 18:33:45 pkhuong: the REPL is a separatethread. 18:33:53 sykopomp: you get "e" to eval stuff in a frame 18:34:46 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gvorspnyzszwgamn] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:37:58 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:37 so, C++0x is voted in on ISO ballot, gains lambda functions. 18:38:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:02 http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2009/08/03/hello-lambdas-c-0x-a-quick-guide-to-lambdas-in-c/ 18:39:03 Fade: with closures? 18:39:32 pjb: plural closures indeed. 18:39:39 wake me up when it has sane macros 18:40:08 I guess it makes it a bit easier to implement lisp in C++ now.. 18:40:12 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:40:25 wasn't there a project to define a CL in C++? 18:40:33 there's XCL 18:41:03 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:54 stassats: XCL simply uses C++ in runtime. Fade probably refers to that odd lisp-like template thing 18:42:21 i'm recollecting a fraction of a memory from a long time ago. 18:42:28 maybe it was corman I was thinking about. 18:42:36 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:42:36 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 Fade: Corman was iirc C and assembler for the core support library, rest was in Lisp (kinda like SBCL or CCL) 18:44:38 sanning [~cess11@miffe.org] has joined #lisp 18:44:38 *sykopomp* has discovered 'r' in sldb-mode. Explodes in happiness and rainbows. 18:44:43 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-94.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 18:45:01 what is it? 18:45:53 'restart frame' 18:46:26 ah 18:46:36 test function in repl -> oh no, I mistyped something -> fix and recompile -> go back to the stack trace -> press 'r' a stack frame or two above 18:46:39 -> rainbows and happiness 18:49:25 -!- sanning [~cess11@miffe.org] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 18:49:39 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 18:49:57 Fade: p_l|backup supposed you were refering to InteLib http://www.informatimago.com/articles/life-saver.html 18:50:39 But the question is whether anybody would serriously think that where you cannot use a CL implementation, people will let you write C++ code like this?! 18:50:47 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:50:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:50:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:55:47 *Fade* laughs 18:56:11 pjb: they did allow C++ in the first place, didn't they? 18:56:48 faster: plists or alists? 18:57:09 neither 18:57:15 that's the wrong question. 18:57:45 hmm. are they not both ways of storing key/values? 18:58:03 tempire: if it matters, you probably want neither. 18:58:11 lulz. noted. 18:59:17 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 18:59:21 http://www.ida.liu.se/imported/cltl/clm/node108.html 18:59:35 cess11 [~cess11@miffe.org] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 I have clsql clos objects in a schema package. I realized I couldn't just pass the objects back to the calling package without exporting all the field symbols. 19:00:02 Which is ugly. 19:00:21 you don't export objects 19:00:26 -!- plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:30 packages are about names. 19:01:34 I'm not exporting the objects, but rather exporting the functions that make objects out of sql data. 19:01:46 but to use the accessor syntax, I have to export the field name symbols as well 19:02:05 you can intern field names in some other package as well 19:02:45 anybody here interested in using OpenID logins with common-lisp.net Trac? 19:02:47 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-133-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:00 (make-sql-accessors :package-to-intern-accessor-names-in) 19:03:28 I have been constructing plists to return from the functions that retrieve the database data, but I'm thinking that's a clunky way to do things. 19:03:33 And likely doesn't scale well. 19:04:13 I didn't think about interning the names in the calling package, I guess they're just names. 19:04:13 if those plists are reasoably sized, it can scale just fine 19:04:54 reasonable = 0-20 elements or so 19:05:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-52-162.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Good night.] 19:06:47 Depending on what you're doing, hundreds can also also reasonable 19:06:50 also be 19:07:17 From what I read, it seems that using hash tables is a better route to go. 19:07:27 or, an object. 19:07:29 puters are fast 19:07:54 returning things as #(name1 name2 name3 ... nameN) and (#(data1.1 data1.2 data1.3 ... dana1.N) #(data2.1 data2.2 data2.3 ... data2.N) ...) can also work pretty nicely 19:08:41 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:09:17 I did that with a hash table to map names to indices too. It works well if you decide to switch to a column-oriented representation later, as well. 19:09:21 (let ((col (find name names))) (dolist (row rows) (frob (aref row col)))) ; using that model -- much cheaper than using a hash-table, much more flexible than creating a class for each kind of row you might want to return 19:09:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:46 yeah, a hash-table for indexes works well as well. or a plist :) 19:09:50 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:26 s/find/position/ ; oops 19:10:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@host176-107-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:25 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:13:23 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:13:35 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:14:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:15:17 sellout [~Adium@64.134.123.215] has joined #lisp 19:16:13 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 19:18:30 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:18:40 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.123.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:41 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:19:00 sellout [~Adium@64.134.123.215] has joined #lisp 19:24:30 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:25:54 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:31:44 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 19:32:28 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:34:04 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:36:06 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.36] has joined #lisp 19:38:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:13 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:40:23 oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-133-226.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:43:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA242C4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:45:08 peculiar_xoxota [8f6a1030@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.106.16.48] has joined #lisp 19:45:26 What do you think of racket? 19:45:27 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:45:49 peculiar_xoxota: it is not an implementation of Common Lisp, so we're rather unconcerned. 19:45:59 I think it has its own irc channel on freenode. 19:46:06 #racker 19:46:07 peculiar_xoxota: ask on #scheme 19:46:08 t 19:46:20 #racket since I can't type today without correction 19:46:22 pjb: I don't think it's scheme these days, either. 19:46:29 It's scheme. 19:46:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:47:30 rpg [~rpg@184-97-129-80.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:03 it's a racket. 19:54:02 It's a programming language! Unless they've changed the web site. Looking. 19:54:16 Nope, it's still a programming language. 20:00:41 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:01:17 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:02:00 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:37 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:51 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-114-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:06:00 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:08:22 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-44-38.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:09:03 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-133-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:09:28 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:10:00 Hey, does anyone know how often QuickLisp pulls in new package builds? 20:10:17 Seems like he's doing it about once a month. Maybe a little less 20:10:20 once a month, my impression 20:11:20 Ok, sounds good. Thinking about having one of my projects added to it, once a month sounds pretty good thoughif there's an issue with a build, how does he approach that? Say..something breaks down the line for some odd reason. 20:11:31 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:24 Xach dispatches an international crew of bug assistants to the author 20:12:27 TDT: users may download a new version and configure it in asdf, temporarily. 20:12:50 lol stassats 20:13:02 Well, a simple notification something is broken would helpI'm usually pretty good about this, but... 20:14:19 better solution: don't break anything! 20:14:59 best solution is that :) and yes, agreed. 20:19:52 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:22:23 Xach's international crew of assistants may or may not be equipped with billy clubs, tasers, and other such tools. 20:22:36 they may or may not have a thing for knees. 20:22:47 and their identity is secret 20:23:06 stassats is definitely not one of them. 20:23:38 i can neither confirm nor deny this 20:26:50 sykopomp: Would have been better if the international crew was equipped with many many boomerangs. 20:30:27 re: earlier ccl/arm discussion, I'm using ccl very happily on an arm netbook (toshiba ac100) 20:34:15 TeMPOraL [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:43 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 20:37:43 Hunden [~Hunden@e180098069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:06 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180098069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 anyone here tried to use Clack/Caveman? 20:38:55 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-178-64-231-25.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:03 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.198.234.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:07 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:29 am0c [~am0c@175.198.234.210] has joined #lisp 20:42:44 ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:44:42 -!- rpg [~rpg@184-97-129-80.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:48:13 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:50:00 LimitSupremum [~greg@c-24-130-147-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:48 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 20:51:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:45 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-133-226.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:54:11 TeMPOraL: huh, I hadn't seen that before. looks fun 20:54:25 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:54:44 not sure I like the implicit parameters in that defun, but it looks interesting 20:54:52 yeah, it looks fun but I have some silly troubles with it 20:55:04 what's the problem? 20:55:15 like: how to update the image with new code, so that the app notices, w/o restarting lisp? 20:55:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:55:31 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD753.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 20:55:33 or, after restarting lisp, why it complains about bordeaux-threads, while it was working before? :D 20:55:41 lol, decorators in lisp :D 20:55:43 re. your first question, can you just reload the file? 20:55:46 fe[nl]ix: yup :D 20:55:50 antifuchs: failed to work 20:55:55 oh, that's annoying 20:55:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.198.234.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56:07 (or I screwed something else up; wasn't exactly a controlled test) 20:56:29 but now I can't get it up again at all 20:56:37 due to #2 20:57:01 i.e. "Undefined function BORDEAUX-THREADS:MAKE-THREAD called with arguments (...") 20:57:36 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 20:57:39 I ensured (via ql:quickload) that everything even remotely relevant to clack, caveman and bordeaux-threads is loaded 20:57:47 and it still doesn't like me :( 20:57:52 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 20:58:01 sounds like you need to load bordeaux-threads before that might be a misisng dependency 20:58:41 didn't help 20:58:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59:13 what version of B-T ? 20:59:56 # 21:01:20 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:21 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:33 hi dto ;) 21:01:54 it *worked* before, on the image I used to create my webapp (via caveman.skeleton:sth) 21:02:04 then I restarted lisp 21:02:11 and it doesn't wrk 21:02:12 hey TeMPOraL :) 21:02:23 one thing, I might have updated hunchentoot as well 21:02:34 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:36 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:02:42 at one point before creating the project I did quicklisp update of all dists 21:03:01 -!- pjb is now known as Guest19307 21:03:07 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:04:01 ok, (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 8081)) fails as well 21:04:14 seems like new hunchentoot doesn't like my B-T 21:06:37 works here 21:06:48 :( 21:07:07 agspathi` [~user@ppp-94-64-144-117.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:07:54 try (bt:make-thread (lambda () (format t "YAY~%"))) 21:08:17 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:35 same error o_0 21:08:44 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-143-65.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:00 delete fasls and reload 21:09:01 I'll remove the library and try redownloading 21:09:08 k 21:09:23 also make sure you don't have bt in some other location 21:09:42 (if you were using asdf-install before quicklisp that might be a problem) 21:09:55 I wasn't 21:10:18 -!- yates [c06843de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.104.67.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:29 ok, then yours is a good plan 21:10:51 codd1 [proxy@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:39 -!- Guest19307 is now known as pjb 21:11:41 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:42 hi! quick question: how to make lisp forget a function name? 21:11:47 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-171-137.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:52 -!- chxane [~chxane@c-68-42-0-80.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:08 effectively rename a function 21:12:11 clhs fmakunbound 21:12:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fmakun.htm 21:12:15 fmakunbound 21:12:24 codd1: dename a function is not the same. 21:12:24 CL-USER> (bt::make-thread (lambda () (format t "YAY~%"))) 21:12:24 # 21:12:24 thanks guys 21:12:33 ok, it seems to have helped, thx 21:12:36 codd1: you can just define the new function. 21:12:52 i.e. I deleted the package from quicklisp manually, restarted lisp and loaded it 21:12:57 pjb ya, ok, I can define a new one, no biggie 21:13:22 Hm. And a question here... I see a site listing AI:AMA 3rd edition in softcover. Can anyone verify that it exists in softcover form? I want to take Stanford's online course starting in October, but I only have the first edition. 21:13:30 codd1: notice that if you fmakunbound, you will have to modify and recompile all the functions that used the old one. 21:13:41 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-172-99.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:48 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:13:50 pnq [~nick@ACA3688B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:58 codd1: you could also (unintern 'fname), and in this case, the function that used it will still use it. Only the new one won't have access to it. 21:14:01 pjb oh? I'll read the clhs 21:15:22 jeez I'm ignorant. Thanks pjb... back to coding :) 21:15:23 ok fe[nl]ix, antifuchs - thanks a lot 21:15:33 it works, and also webapp works too 21:15:48 i.e. it's enough to (load ...) changed file to make it see changes 21:15:52 thx again :) 21:16:07 msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-irputpjrckdzurzn] has joined #lisp 21:16:13 ChibaPet: I think I had 2nd ed in softcover. 21:16:19 FazLeeeN [~evian@78.154.253.70] has joined #lisp 21:16:29 Hm, so it's possible then. Thank you. 21:16:40 TeMPOraL: nice! good luck working with caveman (: 21:16:50 antifuchs: thx :) 21:16:54 it looks really nice 21:17:15 codd1: in general it's enough to just load the updated source. However, using fmakunbound is good if you're afraid you may forget updating functions using it. It'd save some futile debugging time. 21:17:20 I want to make a simple site with images with it, we'll see how it will work out :) 21:17:53 -!- peculiar_xoxota [8f6a1030@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.106.16.48] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:18:12 AndroUser [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:40 Hello. I will start using lisp again but my environment now is Mac OS X Lion, and Vim. Is Limp 0.3.4 still legitimate? (update 2008) or is there a newer addon/plugin? 21:19:39 FazLeeeN: download emacs from http://emacsformacosx.com and Clozure CL (ccl), and install http://quicklisp.org to get libraries. 21:19:59 FazLeeeN: not that many vim users here. You might have to wait a bit for an answer. 21:20:05 FazLeeeN: emacs is optional, ccl includes an emacsen, Hemlock, written in CL. 21:22:23 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:22:45 -!- agspathi` [~user@ppp-94-64-144-117.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:46 -!- agumonkey [~noob@136.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:23:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3688B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:23:34 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 21:25:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:42 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04D3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 21:30:50 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:18 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:35:09 # requires access to Shared Terminal Input 21:35:09 21:35:12 this is interesting :d 21:36:06 Check your input function calls. 21:36:59 it's caused by my web browser when connecting to server 21:37:28 CL input functions take an optional stream as parameter. By default, it tries to read from the terminal. 21:37:32 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:40:58 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40:59 it may be an interactive debugger popping up 21:41:15 hmm weird and i keeps getting weirder :D 21:41:31 pure hunchentoot with default acceptor doesn't cause this 21:41:54 (ah, if you're following the context; I've changed platforms; I'm now on Linux server, trying to deploy a test webapp) 21:42:04 (previous problems were with my local windows machine) 21:42:28 but from HT's default acceptor I get: value # is not of the expected type (SATISFIES CCL::PLISTP). as a web response 21:42:42 which I don't remember ever seeing before 21:44:24 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:44:24 -!- AndroUser [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:25 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 21:45:29 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.36] has joined #lisp 21:45:50 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:15 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 21:46:38 chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:42 -!- silenius_ [~silenius@p5B169AFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:20 -!- fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has left #lisp 21:50:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:03 it seems that loading caveman app switches *something* that causes this behavior 21:52:19 breaking hunchentoot along the way 21:52:27 bare HT works ok. 21:53:18 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:54:09 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-7.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:52 -!- codd1 [proxy@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 21:55:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:00 qqqqw [~qwdddf@151.75.185.97] has joined #lisp 22:01:02 hello 22:01:05 hi qqqqw 22:01:39 does anyone know a quick document that explains the way lisp manage pointers? 22:01:39 hmm switching to :debug nil on caveman makes everything (caveman and hunchentot) just broken (as in 500 ISE) 22:01:40 :D 22:01:53 qqqqw: there's no pointer in lisp. 22:01:58 qqqqw: lisp doesn't have pointers 22:02:10 i don't understand why if i use (car somelist) sometimes i can get the value of the first element, sometimes i get the pointer ie. (setf (car somelist) somevalue) 22:02:26 qqqqw: you don't get a pointer. 22:02:35 qqqqw: setf is a clever thing that can figure out its first argument 22:02:41 and figure out how to make it return something new 22:02:57 SETF is a macro that expands (setf (car k) v) into (rplaca k v). 22:03:06 qqqqw: it's very similar to the way '=' works in C-syntax languages. 22:03:20 qqqqw: but not like = in C++ ;) 22:03:22 gigamonkey: yup, it confused me many times :/ 22:03:39 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 22:03:41 it feels like java-style everything's a referene 22:03:44 reference* 22:03:44 When you say x = 10 in C, the compiler obviously has to know where in memory x lives and generates the right code to modify that place. 22:03:52 When you say (setf x 10) it's the same thing. 22:04:06 so every symbol and every list without the quote always comes out as a value when i pass it to a normal function, right? 22:04:36 Yes. 22:04:38 qqqqw: yes, all the function arguments are evaluated from left to right. 22:04:56 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 22:05:05 sorry for the naivety, i'm just starting and this was bugging me.. i've reread the first 5 chapters of ansi common lisp two times and still couldn't get it 22:05:13 you guys have been very useful, thank you 22:05:32 qqqqw: setf is usefully misleading. 22:05:33 Macroexpanding a setf form could be educational. 22:05:50 i'll do that as soon as i learn what it means then 22:06:06 qqqqw: for more info about setf check clhs setf, clhs defsetf, and clhs get-setf-expansion 22:06:06 pkhuong: I wonder if it would be less confusing if it had been called ASSIGN 22:06:07 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:34 Or even just SET. 22:06:45 Well, SET does something else. 22:07:02 pjb: I know that. But in a different world the good name could have been used for the common thing. 22:07:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:08 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:09:38 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 22:10:49 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:11:10 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:39 ok, beats me 22:14:59 I have no idea how to get any error info from hunchentoot, caveman, or ccl 22:15:30 it just either requests terminal input (:debug t), or silently 500-s (:debug nil) :( 22:15:34 not replicable on Windows 22:16:52 TeMPOraL: reading the backtrace when the error occur should prove interesting. 22:17:03 (ie. applying standard debugging skills). 22:17:04 TeMPOraL: it usually logs in /tmp/hunchentoot.log or similar iirc 22:17:38 pjb: I'm trying to find this backtrace 22:19:08 I've not developed with hunchentoot for a long time, I don't remember how to drop in the debugger on errors. The generic way would be (handler-case ((error (function invoke-debugger))) (start-server)) 22:20:09 you set ht:*catch-errors-p* to nil 22:20:34 this also invokes the debugger on connection errors (like the user pressing Stop), but it should pop up the slime debugger 22:20:45 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:46 pjb: I have a free REPL; nothing gets outputed, no logs generated, no nothing 22:20:59 just blank REPL and everything 500-s on browser site after I start up caveman 22:22:16 *TeMPOraL* is reading HT docs and will try to get those logs working 22:24:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:25:58 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:28:13 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 22:28:45 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-178-82.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:00 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099807.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:29:37 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:29:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 22:30:26 Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has joined #lisp 22:32:25 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:11 no nothing, no logs :( caveman somehow magically overrides hunchentoot in a way clack does usually not :( 22:34:55 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.123.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:35:13 only access log that just says that server responded by 500 22:35:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:15 -!- OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:37:26 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 22:37:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:40:30 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-222.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:28 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:41:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:45:05 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-44-38.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:46:54 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 22:47:11 FazLeeeN` [~evian@78.154.210.220] has joined #lisp 22:48:02 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #lisp 22:48:06 -!- FazLeeeN [~evian@78.154.253.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:27 -!- msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-irputpjrckdzurzn] has quit [Quit: msponge] 22:51:12 msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-zvojvbsnxjkpynvi] has joined #lisp 22:52:25 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:52:41 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #lisp 22:53:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:54:18 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:28 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:38 ok, beats me 22:55:43 I need to get some sleep 22:55:52 thanks for all the help! 22:56:00 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: zZzzzZzzzz] 22:56:07 TeMPOraL: I would suggest to debug it with clisp, which lacks multithreading, so that you really get into the debugger. 22:57:03 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:58:30 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:50 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:09:14 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:10:10 can you study sicp while learning common lisp? or is combining scheme + cl confusing? 23:10:56 it's not confusing to me, don't know about you 23:11:10 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:11:12 you are learning common lisp and scheme together? 23:11:16 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:20 qqqqw: I'd choose one, any, and get good at it. Then, if you feel like it, try something else. Better to try and learn one thing at a time than to be mediocre at everything. 23:11:51 yes i prefer cl, but i keep on hearing what masterpiece sicp is and how it makes you smarter and it makes you understand programming better, so it's tempting 23:12:06 i don't have any other real reason to want to learn scheme 23:12:16 *JuanDaugherty* is with stassats on this one. 23:13:18 there's also the racket implementation which is very tight, following thru on the scheme CL contrast at the implementation level 23:14:44 especially if you expect to market yourself as a lisp programmer, you'd be better advised to cover both 23:14:50 qqqqw: hehe. as someone who just confused the two and may have inadvertently caused someone to be expelled from a channel, I can tell you.... you might get confused :) 23:15:16 i'll postpone that then 23:15:16 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:26 how did you make someone get expelled by confusing scheme with cl? 23:15:30 qqqqw: also, fwiw, I've been struggling witht eh same question you have for weeks. I'm going to focus on CL for now. 23:16:18 i've meditated on it for some days, cl seems better for everything, almost all the books i want to read are in cl 23:16:30 structure and interpretation of computer languages is the only one who keeps bugging me 23:16:30 near as I can tell, by "inspiring" a discussion which was verboten. 23:17:05 yeah, SICP is the only one that makes me want to do scheme instead. but again, it's the ONLY ONE. 23:17:40 are you using some particular books to learn cl? 23:17:57 I'm enjoying PCL. it's a little faster paced in terms of syntax and language features. 23:18:12 after that, I plan on working through PAIP. 23:18:17 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:18:25 http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ This seems to have SICP code translated into CL. 23:18:32 thanks bike 23:18:33 i'm using CLHS to learn CL 23:18:57 penryu: pcl was my finalist, tied with acl, but eventually i chose acl (tossing a coin) 23:19:06 i want to read paip too 23:19:21 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:35 ACL doesn't teach you a good modern style of writing in CL 23:20:00 how comes? 23:20:11 pg doesn't like CL 23:20:27 why did he write two books about it then? 23:20:35 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:37 to make money? 23:20:51 stassats, by any means you meant to write your nick as "smartass" but then mistyped? 23:21:03 *chance 23:21:23 no 23:21:25 ok :) 23:21:28 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:42 it's just that i'm a newbie, there's really no glory in playing skilled programmer with me 23:22:29 i'm not playing with you, i'm saying "don't read ANSI Common Lisp, read Practical Common Lisp instead" 23:23:05 and what about "on lisp", i shouldn't read that too? it was one of the book who sparkled my interests (not that i understand it yet, i mean by reviews and contents) 23:23:36 also, it looks less systematic/organized than acl 23:23:46 dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:50 qqqqw: It has some inspiring moments, but I'd rather recommend Let over Lambda in that direction. 23:23:59 it's not necessary to read On Lisp 23:24:12 -!- dmytrish is now known as EarlGray 23:24:18 qqqqw: Touretzky's Gentle Introduction, then PCL, then PAIP seem to be a great way to start. 23:24:57 read PCL, PAIP, write lots of code and Bob's your uncle 23:25:15 qqqqw: he wrote two books about the platonic ideal Lisp and used CL, reluctantly, because he felt that was the predominant Lisp available. 23:25:29 qqqqw: It's pretty easy to find his disdainful comments about CL. 23:25:33 can you guys give me an example of why pg style is not good cl style? because I'm already at chapter 6 and maybe i've already picked up wrong ideas 23:26:24 *penryu* studies only the form of Lisp. studying an implementation of Lisp would only do it a disservice. 23:26:36 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.36] has joined #lisp 23:26:50 penryu: that's unfortunate 23:26:55 my one takeaway was that he prefers extremely-abbreviated identifiers. those have fallen out of favor for a reason! (: 23:26:57 You're going to have problems with the MOP. 23:27:44 qqqqw: strong preference for IF over COND, avoidance of extended loop, avoiding packages, clos, the condition system, and many other CL-specific things. 23:27:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:27:53 tail recursion instead of iteration 23:28:06 oh, yes, that. wtf (: 23:28:27 ah indeed I was thinking that maybe recursion is the typical lisp style 23:28:39 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:28:43 he uses it as it's superior, at least 23:28:55 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-178-82.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:04 recursion has its place in lisp: to solve recursive problems 23:29:08 recursion is typical when problem in question is better described recursively 23:29:32 but using it to solve problems that would better be solved with iteration nope. 23:29:40 so all in all you guys make a good point, and you all seem to agree about it, it would foolish to ignore this.... 23:29:50 i guess i'm going to start all over again with pcl 23:30:01 tail recursion is just a glorified GOTO 23:30:09 you'll definitely notice the differences in style when you read real-world lisp code 23:30:29 so my advice is to also try and read a bunch of good lisp code (: 23:30:56 Xach used to recommend cl-ppcre; I'm sure he knows a lot more libraries now that he's working on quicklisp (: 23:31:35 you mean i should study the code of that library? 23:31:43 of cl-ppcre? 23:32:17 yes (: 23:32:39 it's implemented in a really interesting way (and it performs really well), and it's very readable too 23:33:11 plus it uses a lot of good lisp style (: 23:33:30 ok thanks, the link isn't working now but I'll bookmark it 23:33:33 you could say that about all the libraries on weitz.de, so you could pick any one and read it (: 23:34:17 hm i'd take advantage of you experts to ask the last pressing question of mine 23:34:31 is there an easy way i can call my lisp code from java (without using clojure) ? 23:34:47 heh 23:35:00 i must work on a system that only accepts java, so i would like to use just a java skeleton to call cl code 23:35:10 qqqqw: ABCL 23:35:11 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:24 qqqqw: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/990f5de07517629c?pli=1 as a ferinstance 23:35:39 stassats, cool! tnx 23:36:01 i'm going to read that post xach 23:36:23 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 23:37:10 yes, looks like you guys were right... 23:37:16 pg hates cl 23:37:58 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:39:01 man this is too sad.... 23:39:21 almost like when i found that site about the book "lisp outside the box" who won't be completed because of health problems of the author 23:39:31 the lisp quest is serving me depressing moments 23:40:03 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 23:40:18 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:40:44 qqqqw: there are other Lisp books. 23:41:19 gigamonkey: and still everyone writes their own? 23:42:57 I thought everyone wrote their own scheme? 23:43:17 there are far more scheme implementations than lisp books. 23:43:25 stassats: I just saw your comment about PG writing his Lisp books "to make money." Hahahaha. 23:44:28 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:39 giga, it turns out he's right, at least it sounds that way from the post xach linked... 23:45:00 gigamonkey: it definitely has earned him a reputation that he is now using to make money (: 23:45:12 gigamonkey: well, on lisp is selling for 157$ used, not too bad. I bet pg intentionally let it run out of print so he can then money selling them as overpriced as "used" 23:45:26 gigamonkey: you should start a career as a writer of essays & early-stage venture capitalist (: 23:45:31 do people really buy programming books instead of downloading them? 23:45:39 *gigamonkey* hopes so. 23:45:43 jk 23:45:44 qqqqw: Yes. 23:45:53 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:11 giga, you're writing your own book? 23:46:33 qqqqw: gigamonkey wrote Practical Common Lisp 23:46:49 ah i see 23:46:58 but then i must reconsider the previous discussion 23:47:06 if giga is the star of this place 23:47:19 maybe if pg was here too, you wouldn't criticize him 23:47:44 qqqqw: #lisp was just as pg-friendly before PCL. 23:47:54 I am the star of this place and gigamonkey is my satellite 23:48:00 It says so right on the cover of PCL! 23:48:01 what did you write? 23:48:18 qqqqw: one of PCL's blurb! 23:48:27 :) 23:48:48 weirdo2 [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:49:06 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:33 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:51:15 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:33 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:45 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:52:24 *penryu* writes a Scheme in QuickBASIC 23:53:55 qqqqw: pg uses only a sub set of "comon lisp" and in his own percurliar way, all those negative things the guys listed about his approach will keep you back in your lisp learning... i know from experience because i started with his books and wasted a year...do pcl for a good introduction and then paip for good style 23:54:23 oh my god, i don't want to waste a year! i have only a couple of weeks to learn lisp! 23:54:42 well then learn it right the first time 23:54:51 you agree that i should also skip "on lisp"? did gigamonkey write anything to follow pcl in the same way that on lisp follows acl? 23:55:24 i know there is let over lambda, but the reviews say that it's hard to understand without reading on lisp first 23:55:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:36 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:53 no but there are a couple of other books that are more advanced that will make sence after pcl like piap 23:56:13 i've given a look at piap in the library, it didn't look very advanced 23:56:18 couple weeks? 23:56:21 but maybe it was a wrong impression 23:56:25 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:56:37 -!- weirdo2 [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-dev] 23:56:44 yes xach, it's not much but i'm usually fast if i can find the righ tbook, i hope pcl is the one now 23:56:46 qqqqw: believe me there are a lot of gems in piap that will make you go wow! 23:56:57 ok harag, i trust you then 23:57:07 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:07 other suggestions? 23:57:09 qqqqw: I don't think two weeks is sufficient. 23:57:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:57:28 two weeks just to get running, not to become an expert 23:57:54 cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has joined #lisp 23:57:54 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has quit [Changing host] 23:57:54 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 23:58:10 peterbb [~peterbb@146.247.161.37] has joined #lisp 23:58:30 -!- msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-zvojvbsnxjkpynvi] has quit [Quit: msponge] 23:58:53 qqqqw: then pcl will get you up and running in a weekend but lisp has hundreds of functions (more than 700 according to piap) it will take time to master