00:00:12 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8E31.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:00:24 pkhuong: there is a discussion here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=123438 regarding my issue, with your permission i'd like to post a link to your download for others to utilize 00:01:01 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has joined #lisp 00:01:51 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:10 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 00:03:38 hello. is it possible to require user to provide some arguments on (make-instance 'class-name .. )? 00:05:06 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:06:13 You could specify (error ...) as the :initform for the slot 00:07:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:46 shaggy-: You can encapsulate make-instance in a constructor function. 00:09:01 interesting idea, but wasn't there a keyword for this? maybe I'm mixing it with some other language 00:09:55 benny [~benny@i577A7686.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:02 hakkum: sure. A mirror might be a good idea. 00:12:48 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has joined #lisp 00:13:34 shaggy-: Moose (perl) has 'required => 1' (which is basically shortcut for 'default => sub { die "..." }', other languages might have similar constructs 00:16:05 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 00:18:47 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:44 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:39 -!- pnq [~nick@AC840AC1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:46 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:24:27 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 00:24:29 Hey, did someone ever used cl-glfw ? 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[~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:52 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:41:30 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has joined #lisp 02:42:43 Praetor [c913460a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.19.70.10] has joined #lisp 02:44:22 hi everyone. if there's a better place to ask this, please let me know. I was wondering how big the company that makes LispWorks is and trying to judge the risk of writing a commercial application using LW and having it become unsupported for any reason. 02:44:43 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:17 Praetor: they've been in business for more than ten years. 02:46:29 Praetor: the risk is very low because there's a standard. 02:46:45 Praetor: so you can easily write code that works on all the CL implementations. 02:47:10 Praetor: even using implementation dependant things can be done, thru portability libraries. 02:47:28 pjb: well I was thinking about using CAPI extensively 02:47:47 AFAIK, they've got the only implementation. 02:48:02 right. hence my question :) 02:48:43 would you say Allegro CL and LW are equally reliable (in terms of staying in business and doing well)? 02:49:04 Allegro's website is confusing and I only read about their GUI library but never saw screenshots 02:49:07 Praetor: I have no financial information. 02:49:17 whereas for LW I can read the entire CAPI documentation online. 02:49:20 Praetor: technically, both implementations are good. 02:50:19 hmm 02:50:35 that's not something I can email the guys at LW and ask, you know? :) 02:51:52 pkhuong: what else do you know about them? 02:51:57 Financial intelligence can be obtained. 02:53:55 they don't seem to be publically traded 02:54:37 Even in this situation, there's some data that leaks. Unfortunately, it's in general only available in paiy-for databases. 02:54:46 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:55:00 Praetor: a good thing for stability. What's the worst case, if LW goes out of business? 02:55:31 I believe you get the source for most of their code with some licenses. 02:55:39 pkhuong: a whole CAPI-based program becomes unsupported 02:56:04 That's if you go out of business. 02:56:33 well, indirectly, I meant. 02:56:39 but still, that would suck 02:58:16 it's not like choosing a smalltalk VM, when Cincom has been around for 40 years and wikipedia has nothing but glowing things to say about it, business-wise 03:00:44 Praetor: harlequin.com (the old name for lispworks.com) was registered in '92. 03:00:48 Praetor: you have two choices: either you use capi, knowing that if you need to move away from LispWorks, you'll have to re-implement capi over some other GUI, or you use another GUI (Ltk, McCLIM, XLIB, whatever). 03:01:43 I'd advise the later, since then there's no cost of porting your program to a different implementation (you can even distribute it in different implementations from day 0). 03:02:09 out of the latter, which would you advise? 03:02:25 I know Tk well and despite its awesomeness it is fickle and limited 03:02:47 (and I say that as someone who likes tcl) 03:02:48 Depends on the target plateform. If you need to run on MacOSX and Windows, XLIB must be eliminated (unless you can "sell" a X server on those plateforms). 03:03:43 it'd be exactly that. 03:04:36 Yes, I'd avoid Ltk, unless it was a very simple form-like GUI. 03:04:48 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 03:04:59 Now there's McCLIM and the question is to locate the needed backends. 03:05:17 what do you mean by needed backends? 03:05:39 You will need a McCLIM backend for each of the target platforms. 03:06:24 hmm. I'm reading more about it, since I know nothing of it 03:06:52 would the backend in OS X and Windows use native widgets? 03:07:43 Definitely. 03:08:36 wow, that's... great :) 03:09:01 Praetor: I'd just use LW if you want CAPI. 03:10:00 I want some reasonably good GUI (a few notches above Tk), not necessarily CAPI. have you used CAPI and do you recommend it? 03:10:50 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:23 Praetor: nowadays the question must be asked for a lot of application whether you'd rather not write the UI in HTML... Make your app a web app, even if it's only run locally, and let the user use his favorite browser to interface with it. 03:13:46 pjb: you're right 03:15:36 but there's still a place for desktop apps. Textmate couldn't be a web app, for instance. 03:16:47 indeed. 03:21:56 at least CCL has a nice bridge to OSX, in case a textmate-like program can't be a mcclim app either :) 03:25:42 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4E3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:07 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:34:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:30 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:40:18 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:18 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:51 -!- CrazyEddy [~vireonine@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:44:44 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rbphueokrpkgrmjz] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 CrazyEddy [~Branchios@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:46:42 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 03:48:59 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:49:54 -!- ph1234k [~ph1234k@unaffiliated/ph1234k] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:53 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:52:31 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: JuanDaugherty] 03:54:25 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:33 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:03:00 -!- tyoc213 [~tyoc213@201.103.239.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:23 how can I execute something only the first time the source is loaded? something like this but without creating unnecessary variable. (defvar *foo* (execute-on-first-load)) 04:05:36 shaggy-: it depends on how you define "the source". 04:06:21 If you really need that, something morally like defvar (checking a flag before executing the side-effect) is pobably the simplest. 04:06:43 Good morning everyone! 04:11:43 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:54 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:13:09 pkhuong something like this? (defvar *first-load* t) (if *first-load* ... ) . and (setf *first-load* nil) at the end of file? 04:16:01 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 04:17:31 -!- davazp [~user@238.Red-88-18-3.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:19:49 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 04:21:21 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:41 sure. 04:30:30 Jeremy_ [~Jeremy@c-98-222-51-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:56 -!- Jeremy_ is now known as Guest44645 04:31:07 -!- Guest44645 [~Jeremy@c-98-222-51-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:33:06 -!- Organometallica [~Jeremy@c-98-222-51-221.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:33:22 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA285E0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:39:10 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:46:58 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:50:51 I have a macro that creates a function with flet that the user can call in body. but instead of just typing function, user has to type macros-package:function. any way to avoid that? 04:51:54 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 04:52:53 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:53:16 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 04:54:55 shaggy-: have the user :USE macros-package. 04:55:15 or whatever package you want to export the function's name from 04:56:36 you mean (use-package ..)? that doesn't help 04:57:16 Maybe you could let the user supply the name of the function in the macro call? 04:57:24 function in macro expands to macro-package:function 04:57:46 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:58:26 name has a meaning to macros' functionality, so it doesn't make much sense for user to supply the name 05:00:29 (with-dispose ((object ...)) ... (dont-dispose object)) 05:00:36 should I use something other than flet? 05:00:56 for dont-dispose 05:01:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:01:41 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:59 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 05:14:44 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:17:03 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 05:21:32 -!- fullets [~fullets@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pxjaudmyjmfebaxc] has joined #lisp 05:28:32 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:22 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:58 easyE [xt8o7W9z4L@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:53 -!- Praetor [c913460a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.19.70.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:34:42 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-zfvyondcyudhccng] has joined #lisp 05:34:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-zfvyondcyudhccng] has quit [Changing host] 05:34:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:34:45 __o [~ian@cpe-24-94-63-230.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:19 -!- __o [~ian@cpe-24-94-63-230.stny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:41:20 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 05:49:35 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.110] has joined #lisp 05:52:49 -!- emagdalenag [~emagdalen@3.Red-83-56-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:52:56 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:38 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:53:45 fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:50 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:54:41 __mal [~mal@www4.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:39 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 05:58:17 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:01:23 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 06:04:27 emagdalenag [~emagdalen@109.Red-88-4-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:12 hello eveyone . 06:05:47 How about this book- ? 06:08:46 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 06:09:08 Is there a simpler solution for scaling down an image to a set width (while maintaining aspect ratio) than cl-gd? 06:14:39 wislin: what about it ? 06:16:28 I think he want's to know if it's any good. 06:16:43 s/'// 06:17:07 personnally I really enjoyed it 06:17:44 Yes . Is it good? 06:18:04 it's not a learning book though, more of a collection of concepts/demonstrations 06:18:22 the author advices to read On Lisp (from Paul Graham) before 06:18:37 *advises, sorry 06:19:10 aha 06:20:05 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:20:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:20:05 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:20:30 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:12 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:26:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:26:18 -!- ASau [~user@176.14.33.178] has quit [Quit: off] 06:30:12 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:31:51 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:32:40 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 06:33:07 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:38 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:26 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.22] has joined #lisp 06:44:55 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:47:12 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:47:49 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 06:47:53 antifuchs [~foobar@2001:470:1f14:1c54::fade:1] has joined #lisp 06:49:29 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:51:16 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:52:26 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 06:53:19 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.60.34] has joined #lisp 06:55:47 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.60.34] has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:26 __class__ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:08 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-107-68.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:04:49 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-46-1.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:04:49 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-46-1.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:04:49 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:06:58 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 07:07:49 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:49 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:13:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:15:01 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:17:18 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.4.225] has joined #lisp 07:20:31 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.143.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-104-152.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:28:16 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.11] has joined #lisp 07:29:07 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:08 -!- shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:31:00 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 07:31:12 is there any package to read configuration files like ini ? 07:31:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:29 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:31:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.4.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:40 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:03 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:09 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007042.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 07:41:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:44:11 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:22 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007042.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:46:37 cfy [~cfy@125.123.23.228] has joined #lisp 07:46:37 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.23.228] has quit [Changing host] 07:46:37 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:46:41 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:54 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-24-6.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:56 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:54:59 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:55:22 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:58:40 chp [~chp@218.242.194.242] has joined #lisp 07:59:01 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:59:42 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:36 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:01:21 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 08:01:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:01:50 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:03:04 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 08:03:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:52 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:14 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:35 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 08:17:29 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.232.127] has joined #lisp 08:21:39 trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has joined #lisp 08:26:54 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AFE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:33 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29:48 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B5DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:16 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:18 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:42:10 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:42:55 MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:24 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:44:51 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:52 Can class variables be accessed without a class instance? 08:46:44 *jtza8* means to ask how, if possible. 08:47:23 jtza8: it is possible by accessing the class object, but generally not recommended. 08:47:33 jtza8: use a dynamic variable instead. 08:47:45 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:48:13 Thanks, seems more logical in this instance. 08:48:37 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.71.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:03 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:51:30 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-yowcwpxpshqmyinf] has joined #lisp 08:52:39 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:00 -!- trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:55:14 Posterdati [~tapioca@host159-151-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:56:35 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:57:10 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:59:21 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 09:00:14 -!- lnostdal-laptop is now known as lnostdal 09:00:20 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-24-6.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:02:00 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:02:00 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.206.223] has joined #lisp 09:02:21 -!- chp [~chp@218.242.194.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:40 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:05:58 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 09:06:24 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:37 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 09:18:10 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:08 ngz [~user@209.141.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:03 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host159-151-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:29:48 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:35:38 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:37:46 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:38:28 Posterdati [~tapioca@87.19.49.228] has joined #lisp 09:41:02 what unit testing framework people use ? 09:41:25 i just write code without bugs 09:41:55 one day when i am big i will be able to do that aswell 09:42:26 stassats, hehe 09:42:46 stassats, I wish I could say that too 09:43:44 kushal: you can say that and it would be as wrong :) 09:44:01 H4ns, :p 09:44:24 H4ns, do yo use anything ? 09:45:02 kushal: i have used lisp-unit, 5am, lift and quickly slammed together macros. nothing really satisfied me to make me recommend it. 09:45:18 :( 09:45:44 kushal: don't despair. start with lisp-unit for it is simple. 09:45:46 kushal: just try them all 09:46:08 kushal: i did not like lift much, and 5am bothered me with its large number of dependencies. 09:46:58 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@87.19.49.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:29 H4ns, ok 09:48:21 that seems like a waste of time. 09:49:22 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:48 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:53 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 09:54:53 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 09:54:53 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:59:24 -!- kiooeht [~kiooeht@184.154.102.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:05 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 Posterdati [~tapioca@host212-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:00:39 yakov [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:01:12 -!- yakov [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:01:19 yakov [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:01:45 gday 10:02:09 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:02:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:04:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:03 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-23-83.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:05 yakov_ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:07:08 how can I get quicklisp in test.lisp so that I can run sbcl --script test.lisp ? 10:07:24 kiooeht [~kiooeht@184.154.102.118] has joined #lisp 10:09:08 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:09 -!- yakov [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12:14 kushal: Put loading quicklisp in your sbcl initfile. 10:12:30 kushal: There's a quicklisp function do to that automatically. 10:12:37 antoszka, that works if I don't use --script 10:12:40 with sbcl 10:12:49 --script bypasses .sbclrc? Didn't know, sorry. 10:13:01 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:13:24 How about just addding the initcode do your test.lisp, then? 10:13:29 antoszka, found the solution 10:13:33 antoszka, yes 10:13:34 :) 10:13:36 works 10:14:27 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 ahriman` [~ahriman@109.123.146.178] has joined #lisp 10:15:00 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:13 yakov__ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:19:29 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:20:39 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:21:06 cfy [~cfy@125.123.45.190] has joined #lisp 10:21:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.45.190] has quit [Changing host] 10:21:06 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:21:30 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:12 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 10:27:17 yakov_ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:28:48 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 10:28:53 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ] 10:29:29 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host212-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:31:20 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:32:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:09 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:08 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:34:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:34:33 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:35:00 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:15 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 10:35:15 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 10:35:15 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:35:17 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:37:23 yakov__ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:41:18 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:43:44 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:54 Posterdati [~tapioca@host138-229-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:47:32 yakov_ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:51:12 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:52:08 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:52:13 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host138-229-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:01 nonduality [d41f5a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.90.45] has joined #lisp 10:55:20 hi, is anybody familiar with mcclim under windows? 10:56:15 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC9B0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:34 yakov__ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has joined #lisp 10:57:43 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:34 azathoth99 [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:35 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8F45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:43 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:01:40 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@mail.dce.ifmo.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.232.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:02:36 nonduality: Doesn't seem all that likely. 11:04:26 Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:08:08 hhm 11:08:20 it's not really a mcclim problem anyway 11:08:58 basically it's working. everything compiled fine etc. 11:09:26 but i think there is a problem with the xserver(xming)-mcclim-app communication 11:09:56 i think it's all about the correct "display-string" 11:10:34 i set a environment variable called "DISPLAY" with value "localhost:0.0" which should be the default value 11:10:38 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 11:11:01 lawful_evil [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:06 hey xach 11:11:10 can i call truce? 11:11:37 I don't know what you're talking about. 11:11:47 -!- lawful_evil is now known as gavino 11:12:02 \o/ 11:12:03 now lets talk 11:12:08 I think you'll find if you don't ask stupid questions from which you never learn, you'll have no trouble in #lisp. 11:12:09 nonduality: Do other X clients work with that X server and the same DISPLAY designation? 11:12:23 is there a macro emulating awk in lisp? 11:12:36 gavino: Try googling for "awk in lisp" 11:12:51 gavino: I remember reading about that just the other day 11:13:17 antoszka: you mean other X applications? 11:13:59 wow 11:14:29 I did a job in awk in 3min took me 4 hours to figure out in tcl due to tcl cygwin file reading newline bug 11:14:53 nonduality: xterm, xclock, whatever. An X client. 11:14:57 it seem to me the hardest apr tof lsip is getting data in out of text files, once in list form comutations are childishly simple 11:15:11 gavino: Try not to spell every other word wrong, too. 11:16:40 It seems to me, that the hardest part in lisp, is getting data in and out of files, because once the data is in lists, the computations become childishly easy. 11:16:43 antoszka: well, im under win32 11:17:05 nonduality: I'm sure your X-server has some accompanying apps with it. 11:17:15 Memorizing which assignments compute things first also gives me a bit of trouble. 11:17:30 Does that just come in time? 11:17:48 antoszka: i check that 11:17:57 gavino: it will never come for you 11:18:21 gavino: What is an assignment that computes things first? 11:18:56 Hey, did someone ever used cl-glfw ? I've got an error telling me that the package "gl" was not found 11:19:02 I was reading how say a definition with an equation will sometimes, depending on the defining function, compute the variable, and sometimes not. 11:19:36 gavino: Where did you read that? 11:19:47 The_third_man: I've built it, but never used it. 11:19:55 The_third_man: did you get that error after loading things? 11:20:24 http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter03-03.html let vs setq 11:20:54 antoszka: there are no accompanying apps, but i tried running the clclock demo-app from the clx package. it's working, hm 11:21:30 antoszka: the thing is, i got mcclim under windows already running a year ago 11:22:06 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:24 gavino: The words "compute" and "equation" do not appear on that page. 11:23:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:24:05 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:03 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:25:06 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-23-83.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:25:08 antoszka: hm, it looks as if there is some problem with the clim-demo::demodemo app. i just tried running the clim-fig demo by itself and it's working 11:25:43 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-18-222.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:49 antoszka: anyway, it seems to work in principle, thx 11:27:34 Ok I was imprecise. How would you describe such differences? 11:28:11 Unlike SETQ, which assigns values in left-to-right order, LET binds variables all at the same time: 11:28:21 LET bound W to 8 and X to W. Because these bindings happened at the same time, W still had its value of 77 11:28:41 nonduality: In which case I've no idea what to suggest (apart from leaving the platform :)). 11:29:15 gavino: It does help to memorize how LET works, or to be able to quickly look up and understand the documentation. 11:29:24 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:37 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:39 gavino: setq is like let*, psetq is like let 11:29:58 Xach, yeah, I got it when running an example file 11:30:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:22 If I understood correctly, it seems that glfw generates also gl bindings, under the package gl: 11:30:38 antoszka: unfortunatly i just have windows here at work :) 11:30:42 but they does'nt seem to exist when I load the package with asdf 11:30:48 do'nt* 11:30:52 don't* 11:30:55 >< 11:32:37 *Xach* doesn't know how it's meant to be used 11:33:35 thx anyway :) 11:34:09 I hope to someday add a system where you can ask "What system defines a package named GL?" 11:34:13 And get a useful answer. 11:37:15 I hope that someday most of the cl libraries will be correctly documented (even if cl-glfw is documented pretty good) 11:37:59 A lot of libraries have pretty good documentation. More than I expected when I started gathering it. 11:38:27 I was unlucky then :D 11:39:44 Was there one in particular that got you? 11:39:52 ch-image :D 11:40:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:22 some functions were really weird 11:40:33 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/ch-image/readme.html 11:40:40 *Xach* slaps forehead 11:40:43 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:41:00 cnl [~cnl@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 lol 11:41:07 bazinga! 11:41:26 No one expects the inquizition! 11:42:40 nonduality: Perhaps you should switch over to LW + CAPI on Windows then. 11:45:05 isn't ch-image superseded by slyrus' new image thingie? or was ch-image the new one? 11:45:39 ch-image is the new IIRC 11:45:43 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:46:10 antoszka: it was just some lunchtime activity to get it run 11:46:17 oh, my bad, it is opticl actually 11:46:54 https://github.com/slyrus/opticl/blob/master/morphology.lisp 11:47:31 when I read erode or dilate, with no comments and non explicit variables, it took me time to understand 11:48:09 (and morphological-op is not much clearer) 11:49:23 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:50:06 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 11:51:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:40 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:54:00 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:17 for ui why not html? 11:54:19 why gui? 11:54:25 what will the program do? 11:54:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rbphueokrpkgrmjz] has left #lisp 11:56:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:34 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:13 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 11:58:14 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:58:28 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-yowcwpxpshqmyinf] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:59:32 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:10:06 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:24 runix [~runix@0116100055.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:13:02 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 12:13:08 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:29 nefo [~nefo@222.242.196.227] has joined #lisp 12:13:29 -!- nefo [~nefo@222.242.196.227] has quit [Changing host] 12:13:29 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:15:29 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:16:12 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-evhcpremdghcizci] has joined #lisp 12:18:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:20:23 Hi, http://paste.lisp.org/+2NKY - is there a way to have "-p" appended to the first usage of s in the macro to have it generate the two shown defuns? 12:21:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:21:19 (intern (format nil "~a-~a" s 'p)) 12:21:33 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22:27 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:56 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 12:23:28 thanks :) 12:24:55 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:25:48 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:28:22 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29:45 -!- emagdalenag [~emagdalen@109.Red-88-4-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:29:51 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:29:53 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:30:51 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 12:31:56 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 12:32:26 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-18-222.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:41 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:45 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 H4ns, lisp-unit is really easy :) 12:38:36 kushal: glad you like it. 12:38:51 100% test coverage :) 12:39:02 jj/unac 12:39:06 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-evhcpremdghcizci] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:39:23 So, is Arc worth learning? 12:39:31 Lone_Wanderer: no 12:39:33 Or is there another channel for that question? 12:39:44 There's #arc, but answers may be biased. 12:39:48 I didn't really think so. 12:39:51 kushal: do you use sb-cover? 12:40:11 stassats`, no 12:40:29 do you use ccl's coverage tool? 12:40:33 Lone_Wanderer: the answers you'll get here certainly are biased 12:40:54 Well, everyone has a bias. 12:40:55 stassats`, none, just used lisp-unit 12:41:09 kushal: how do you know it has 100% coverage? 12:41:35 i should really put slime-cover into upstreams 12:41:45 So, is this a political bias? Or are there actual complaints about the language? 12:42:10 stassats`, I mean I have 7 functions and wrote 7 tests for them, 12:42:11 Lone_Wanderer: the language, it doesn't deliver what it promises 12:42:14 Lone_Wanderer: this is a common lisp channel. go to #arc to discuss arc. 12:42:33 still reading the history of lisp 12:42:38 emagdalenag [~emagdalen@179.Red-88-4-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:47 how the name "common lisp" came is funny 12:42:53 H4ns: I suspect that if I ask how arc differs from CL in the Arc channel, I'll get a similar response ;) 12:43:09 Lone_Wanderer: maybe. still, arc is off-topic here. 12:43:15 kushal: i take "100 % coverage" as "all code-paths are visited" 12:43:44 Understood. 12:44:02 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 12:44:08 stassats`, true, I said wrong 12:44:55 But there is some frustration in trying to find a venue to discuss the relative merits of a language relative to CL, when most CL forums are moderated strictly - as you're demonstrating. Could you suggest a place where a question like this would be more welcome? 12:45:33 Lone_Wanderer: i suggest you to do your own research 12:45:37 Lone_Wanderer: Nowhere? :P 12:46:00 I swear, you guys. 12:46:02 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:09 Most determinedly unhelpful responses ever. 12:47:04 Lone: Try asking intelligent questions. 12:47:10 mmmm, yes 12:47:23 Lone_Wanderer: those are the most meaningful responses 12:47:47 Another classic. Your rude responses are acceptable, so long as you can find a flaw in my question. 12:47:50 no one can make up your mind, do your own research 12:48:00 Don't, like - be helpful. GOD NO! 12:48:06 Lone_Wanderer: maybe, instead of asking "what are the differences between arc and cl", you could ask a specific question. 12:48:10 Please stop whining. 12:48:12 Lone_Wanderer: please stop whining 12:48:19 XD 12:48:26 Lone_Wanderer: but that'd require that you do your own research, of course. 12:50:06 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:50:20 if you already know Common Lisp, comparing Arc with it is quite easy 12:50:33 I just think it's funny that, when I ask a question about CL and a language written in CL, in a channel that's *about* CL, the responses I get (from people who clearly understand the question and could, if they chose, answer it in a way that's helpful) focus instead on the deficiencies in my question and tell me to take my inquiry elsewhere. 12:50:41 Funny, and frustrating. 12:50:45 Lone_Wanderer: Looking at http://ycombinator.com/arc/tut.txt: 12:50:46 uh 12:50:53 Lone_Wanderer: Arc isn't written in CL 12:50:53 Arc is written in Scheme. 12:50:54 cool, thanks flip214. 12:50:57 the first difference is (with) vs. (let) 12:50:58 Ohh. 12:51:03 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:51:33 (with) has less parens ... which might look good to someone loving python, but if you like the unambigousness of () you won't like that. 12:51:45 similar (if) vs. (cond) ... 12:51:49 Lone_Wanderer: yes, it's very funny that you have to do something yourself 12:51:52 See? This is how easy things can be. 12:52:05 flip214, if and cond are both existing in cl 12:52:25 The_third_man: yes, but (if) in ARC is more like (cond) in CL 12:52:26 Lone_Wanderer: You could have found the arc tutorial just looking in the arc page :| 12:52:28 flip214: let's not list all the differences of Arc and CL here 12:53:04 well, now we ARE getting off topic, but - my complaint is not that I have to do work, but about the hostility of the response I received when I asked what was intended to be a friendly question 12:53:08 stassats`: I would've stopped here anyway ... just wanted to point out that there're syntactic differences, and so it's a matter of taste 12:53:34 Lone_Wanderer: the hostility is based on the fact that a simple google search would've shown you the tutorial, to make the comparision yourself 12:53:40 if you intend to be friendly, but provide an insult through ignorance, why should you complain about a hostile response? Just do better next time 12:54:17 Lone: Have you found an intelligenet question yet? 12:54:27 Intelligent, even. :) 12:54:42 Zhivago: that would be odd ;) 12:54:46 I understand that the Internet is a source of information, and that I can use tools on the Internet to access that information. I desired a discussion with human beings rather than a static source of information. 12:55:02 Lone_Wanderer: can you now go and do your research, please? 12:55:03 Lone: But instead, you ... do what? 12:55:15 -!- hlavaty` [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:19 Lone_Wanderer: you made it clear that you hate us, so why do you continue? 12:55:29 Well, since I'm clearly not going to get a discussion with human beings from this channel, sure ;) 12:55:31 Lone: If you have an intelligent question, then ask it. 12:55:36 Lone: Otherwise, please shut up. 12:55:58 I'm just trying to ask - in as polite a way as I know how - for y'all to please not be dicks. 12:56:05 I guess that's too much to ask for. 12:56:13 Nobody here was a dick, I think. 12:56:30 Lone: You're being being a dick. 12:56:31 Different standards, I guess. 12:56:43 Lone: Either ask a sensible question or stop whining. 12:56:44 Lone_Wanderer: right. from my standards, you are being a dick. 12:57:08 Well, we both are now. 12:57:17 I did attempt civility at first, though. 12:57:26 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 12:57:30 There we go. 12:57:31 OUCH 12:57:31 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q Lone_wanderer!*@* 12:57:35 I think dicks are offtopic. 12:57:38 Too much whining. 12:57:42 sykopomp, lol 12:57:52 Yeah, dicks are offtopic iirc. 12:57:55 Not enough intelligent questions. 12:58:12 none, actually 12:59:51 next step: write a blog post on how bad #lisp is 13:00:33 -!- CrazyEddy [~Branchios@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:51 yCrazyEdd [~phyllocar@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:04:13 Mococa [~Mococa@200.128.3.113] has joined #lisp 13:05:13 August sun seems to be making people cranky :D 13:06:07 fe[nl]ix: Too little sun in the Antarctic. 13:06:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:41 tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has joined #lisp 13:06:45 antoszka: are you in the Antarctic ? 13:08:00 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:36 fe[nl]ix: perhaps more like "scott in the antarctic" ;) 13:08:53 fe[nl]ix: Unfortunately, not. 13:09:00 'morning 13:09:30 (the monty python version is what I meant) 13:09:47 its the prevalence of monosexuallimitation makes one cranky 13:10:09 if geuido could do it over I wonder if he would name it monty 13:10:22 because the snake thing overpwoers the monty python thing 13:10:33 python should be renamed monty 13:10:45 but the winter is coming ... 13:12:14 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.42] has joined #lisp 13:12:57 <-southern california 13:13:00 whats winter? 13:13:38 well, it seems that monday opens up with #lisp boiling off nonsense. 13:13:51 gavino: Go away. 13:13:58 ok 13:14:06 -!- gavino [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 13:15:20 it's just that simple 13:15:28 If only that were so 13:15:36 Xach: that was wrong. Instead of scaring him away he should have invited us 13:15:38 hahaha 13:16:40 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:19:30 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:31 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f764bb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:22 antifuchs is also in california and is probably a better host 13:21:06 Xach: yes, you're right ... perhaps he remembers me 13:21:42 You could discuss Lisp with him, too 13:21:49 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:22:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:25:00 EyeWare [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 13:25:32 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:25:40 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:25:44 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.83] has joined #lisp 13:25:44 -!- EyeWare is now known as EyesIsMine 13:26:25 ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:57 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:27:29 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:42 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:54 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 13:42:14 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:10 scottyn [~scottyn@13.168.70.115.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:43:25 -!- nonduality [d41f5a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.90.45] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:43:29 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-22-36.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:20 -!- scottyn [~scottyn@13.168.70.115.static.exetel.com.au] has left #lisp 13:44:44 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:44:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:45:25 -!- redline6561_afk is now known as redline6561 13:46:11 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:52:57 -!- yCrazyEdd is now known as CrEddy 13:57:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:58:35 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:58:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:00:32 Sakako [~sakako@115-64-228-146.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-utwpnxckuldslyhm] has joined #lisp 14:01:31 -!- Sakako [~sakako@115-64-228-146.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:04 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.173.200.79] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:05:12 Sakako [~sakako@115-64-228-146.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:06:33 -!- emagdalenag [~emagdalen@179.Red-88-4-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:08:42 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440155.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:08:51 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 14:08:51 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 14:08:51 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:09:25 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:10:11 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-127-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:31 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 14:13:39 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.173.200.79] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:15:20 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634036.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:15:43 How would I declare unused functions in a macro to be ignorable (deletable)? 14:15:52 flet 14:15:54 functions 14:16:05 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@200.128.3.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:39 jtza8: (declare (ignorable #'some-function)) 14:17:51 pkhuong: Thanks :) 14:18:49 Would it be legal to just use (declare (ignore #'foo)), too? 14:18:54 emagdalenag [~emagdalen@41.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:00 antoszka: yes. 14:19:06 thx 14:19:12 I don't know there is a slight difference between ignorable and ignore 14:19:27 *antoszka* has to read up on the differences, then. 14:20:22 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:20:57 *francogrex* uses (declare (ignore ... always but the truth is he also needs to read more about the difference 14:21:42 I think 'ignorable doesn't cause a warning if you later use the ignorable thing. 14:21:43 I would consider (declare (ignore #'foo)) bad form. 14:22:06 #'foo is not evaluated here, and it works only because it is not. 14:22:44 pjb: same for (function foo). 14:23:07 That's why specially in the case of a declare, you should write (function foo). 14:23:42 How do the evaluation or non-evaluation of #'foo and (function foo) differ? 14:23:45 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:24:15 pkhuong: '(#'foo) is rarely what you want. Newbies are bitten by it. 14:24:27 pjb: how is '((function foo)) better? 14:24:43 It clearly shows that you want a list of a list containing two symbols. 14:26:05 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-22-36.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:26:07 sure. I don't code to avoid confusion that only affects beginners. 14:27:47 Well, the difference between ignore and ignorable is exactly what one might expect from those words. 14:27:57 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:29:09 pkhuong: well, if you will, the problemm I see in general with #'foo is that it doesn't read an object, but a form. So it's meaning depends on the context it's read in. Would you write (let ((foo 42)) (let #'foo function))? It's an horror! That's why it should not be used, but (function foo). To the contrary of #P, which reads an object: (let #P"foo" pathname) doesn't work. 14:29:16 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:30:17 That's fine, but that doesn't make (declare (ignore #'foo)) bad. 14:30:55 It does, for the same reason (declare (ignore #.(function foo))) is bad. 14:31:02 That's true of all lisp expressions. :) 14:31:07 All context dependent. 14:31:09 pjb: in the context of ignore/ignorable declarations, #'foo does denote the function named foo. 14:31:15 Zhivago: yes, but more or less. 14:32:09 maybe it's not clear how it causes the correct effect, but (declare (ignore #'foo)) is not at all confusing to someone who comes across it 14:32:43 foom: I should start naming my variables function and using (let #'foo ...) 14:32:51 pjb: but that *is* confusing 14:33:01 IMO both are obfuscation. 14:33:11 in one you're actually talking about the function named foo 14:35:03 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:35:26 -!- Mustansir [~Mustansir@cpe-76-169-66-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Mustansir] 14:36:12 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:37:02 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-46-198.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:15 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:22 nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:59 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:45 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: phone call] 14:45:41 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.66.13] has joined #lisp 14:45:42 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@2001:470:1f14:1c54::fade:1] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:47:11 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:17 -!- fbass [~fbass@71-222-133-20.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:48:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-242.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:18 antifuchs [~foobar@2001:470:1f15:1c54::fade:1] has joined #lisp 14:51:19 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 14:51:30 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-46-198.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:51:42 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has left #lisp 14:53:11 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:54:35 ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.57.126] has joined #lisp 14:55:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 14:57:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.66.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:48 Joreji_ [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:07:43 is there a maximum size pastebin? 15:08:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:21 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:11:24 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-227.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:37 urandom__ [~user@p548A2BE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:55 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.170.18] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:23 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pxjaudmyjmfebaxc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:45 -!- pnathan [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:36 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:03 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:12 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.57.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:37 ehu` [~ehuels@109.34.255.98] has joined #lisp 15:21:02 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:21:26 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:32 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 15:22:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.170.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:23:27 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:23:41 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:24:53 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:22 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.34.255.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:49 JuanDaugherty: probably. Even if unspecified. 15:26:00 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 15:30:08 pjb: yeah 15:30:49 but a specified one was what I meant 15:30:59 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:28 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.243.168] has joined #lisp 15:35:02 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:18 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:25 HG` [~HG@p579F79A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:13 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:39:06 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:41:18 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:42:32 markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-163-231.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:43:19 -!- Sakako [~sakako@115-64-228-146.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: (Night all.)] 15:44:05 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:45:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.243.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:47:53 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:49:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-104-152.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:43 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:57:02 stassats`: I think that pointing to fascist SBCL warnings is more useful answer about testing framework. 16:00:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:00:17 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:50 nikodemus: opticl is the new one 16:01:28 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:02 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:02 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-31-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:10 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:02:48 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:05:16 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:05:28 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:07:49 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:07:52 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-149.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:08:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:36 DGASAU: they are not fascist 16:10:26 Some people insist that any type enforcement is fascist. :) 16:12:15 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:30 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:12:38 Levenson [~Levenson@95.59.96.124] has joined #lisp 16:12:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 sbcl doesn't enforce types 16:14:23 No it's worse. It keeps complaining until the programmer does. 16:14:27 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-163-231.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16:41 -!- runix [~runix@0116100055.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:21:33 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-86-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:12 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:47 pnq [~nick@172.163.77.149] has joined #lisp 16:27:33 bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:17 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:29:02 peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has joined #lisp 16:30:48 -!- msmith [~msmith@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:52 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.206.223] has quit [Quit: monaaaaayyyee!] 16:39:01 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:40:39 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 16:40:50 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:42:00 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:55 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:09 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:13 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-107-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.111.232.25] has joined #lisp 16:50:44 randal [~textual@14.153.215.237] has joined #lisp 16:51:17 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.19.178] has joined #lisp 16:52:14 -!- randal [~textual@14.153.215.237] has left #lisp 16:52:17 randal [~textual@14.153.215.237] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.111.232.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:53:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:55:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:24 -!- bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:28 ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.222.49] has joined #lisp 16:59:03 -!- randal [~textual@14.153.215.237] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 17:00:39 bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.19.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:01:20 msmith [~msmith@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:30 nikodemus: Are you planning some CL/sbcl hoodies in the Cafepress shop, too? I'd love to be able to buy one of those. 17:06:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:31 nikodemus: something of that sort: http://www.cafepress.com/+rooted_android_hooded_sweatshirt,462322078 17:10:15 -!- pnq [~nick@172.163.77.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:12:07 antoszka: any specific design you'd like? 17:12:18 save-lisp-and-die? the alien? 17:12:30 nikodemus: Alien is my favourite. 17:12:38 nikodemus: Black or dark grey would be lovely. 17:12:45 Large alien. 17:12:49 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:13:29 drks [~jamiee@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 17:13:47 With a zip. :) 17:14:02 hello. is there a standard map-like function for hash keys/values? 17:14:14 clhs maphash 17:14:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_maphas.htm 17:14:26 Some functions are just too obscurely named ... 17:14:28 Only it doesn't return anything, you will have to collect what you want where you want it. 17:14:39 haha, how did I miss that. I was trying to get map working 17:14:54 (defvar standard-map-like-function-for-hash-keys/values (f h) (maphash f h)) 17:15:01 s/defvar/defun/ 17:15:09 lol 17:15:17 (x.x).o(???) 17:16:33 what about a t-shirt with SBCL source code printed on it? 17:16:49 it doesn't collect return values though, shame 17:16:55 It would have to be printed very small to fit. 17:17:07 Maybe a nice stipple pattern would be simpler. 17:17:12 you could print inside too 17:18:00 drks: use loop 17:18:08 drks: it allows collection of values 17:18:11 antoszka: on a zip hoodie a large image has to go on the back 17:18:31 nikodemus: Fine with me. 17:18:43 nikodemus: Then perhaps the lizard on the front? 17:18:54 nikodemus: Or would it make it too baroque altogether? 17:18:55 http://www.cafepress.com/nikodemus.562131599 # like so, but darker? 17:19:12 Yeah, or just plain black. 17:19:49 would be nice in the left corner on the chest 17:20:37 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 hm, can't seem to print on the back of a dark zip hoodie :/ here's one with alien on the chest http://www.cafepress.com/nikodemus.562131597 17:23:56 hmm one with braces would be good 17:23:58 lol 17:24:31 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-onbfvqubzhtbiffi] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 Hm... No hope for a large alien on the back of a zip hoodie then? 17:28:23 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:31 ÷å 17:29:09 ò 17:29:21 â 17:29:57 bleakgadfly [51a6aba8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.166.171.168] has joined #lisp 17:30:28 æ æ capt'n 17:30:48 not on a dark one, it seems 17:30:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:31:06 nikodemus: How about a grey zip-hoodie then? 17:31:50 no a blonde zip-hoodie 17:31:55 lol 17:32:30 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:36 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:54 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:34:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-4-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 -!- tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:28 antoszka: got one up now 17:35:39 Same link? 17:35:44 sacho [~sacho@90.154.219.54] has joined #lisp 17:35:48 http://www.cafepress.com/nikodemus/7923304 17:35:57 it would be really good if you could design your own shirt 17:37:07 wtf, save lisp and die ? 17:37:11 nikodemus: http://www.cafepress.com/nikodemus.562134523  has this one got anything on the front? Or is it (or 'back 'front) only? 17:37:11 wth 17:37:20 wtg 17:37:32 back only 17:37:46 sod 17:39:38 jdz [~jdz@host142-71-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:40:05 on the same line as "do lisp and be gay!" 17:40:20 or "don't do lisp, it sucks you balls!" 17:40:26 lol 17:40:29 oh man 17:41:03 homie: go away 17:41:04 ? 17:41:20 ok 17:41:20 And, what Xach said. 17:41:36 back now! 17:41:57 (describe 'sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die) ; for the terminally curious 17:42:30 Hello, Dragons! 17:42:47 that's what you get when you don't quote it right! 17:42:50 lol 17:43:38 Is it an error for an asdf:defsystem form to contain the following: ":depends-on '()" 17:43:49 homie: you're not actually being amusing 17:44:46 stassats`: Alan Kay would approve (the t-shirt source), but Aren't there more cons ccells in the sources of sbcl than wire crossing in a t-shirt? 17:46:00 it's the one eye-crossing property of lisp code... 17:46:01 I had the above in some-foo.asd file outside the quicklisp dist directory but with the directory path to the some-foo.asd on asdf:*central-registry*. 17:46:10 mon_key: not unless you have a system named quote 17:46:32 stassats`: quicklisp:quickload 'some-foo) errored when looking for the system name "nil" 17:46:54 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.33.222.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:04 yes, and a system named nil 17:47:28 zmv [c885c40e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.133.196.14] has joined #lisp 17:47:55 and a system named quote. 17:48:04 that's what i said first 17:48:13 Right, I skipped over... :-( 17:48:34 what's up? 17:48:51 lisp image! 17:49:08 So both quote and the value of the empty list are evaluated as designators of asdf systems but the atom NIL is not? 17:49:20 mon_key: '() == (quote nil) 17:49:29 mon_key: () == nil 17:49:30 mon_key: the form in that position is not evaluated. 17:49:42 mon_key: it's a little like writing (case foo ('() ...) ...) 17:50:11 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:13 Xach: pjb: stassats`: OK. thanks 17:51:07 i like (let (#'1) (+ function 2)) => 3 17:51:29 *Xach* saves that away for the CL quiz 17:51:33 Obv. Its a corner case, but kinda confusing b/c over here: (eq '() nil) => t 17:51:40 (let (#'1 '2) (+ function quote)) 17:51:49 (let '#'1 (list quote function)) => (NIL 1) 17:51:49 nikodemus: placing an order thx. 17:51:59 mon_key: you have to know the evaluation rules of macros you use. 17:52:24 mon_key: also (eq '() 'cl:nil) and probably (eq '() 'nil) and (eq '() 'cl-user::nil) 17:52:27 Yes, of course. I find Asdf confuses me more than most. 17:52:41 (string= '() :nil) 17:52:52 (eql (read-from-string "'()") (read-from-string "nil")) => NIL 17:53:14 and possibly (not (eql (read-from-string "()") (read-from-string "nil"))) too. 17:53:16 stassats`: eql is not eq though... 17:53:36 '() => (quote ()) 17:53:37 mon_key: yes, (eq 1 1) --> NIL , possibly. 17:53:40 mon_key: that's beside the point 17:53:47 no its not! 17:53:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-45.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:53:57 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:54:02 acelent: no. => (or -->) means results into when evaluated by CL:EVAL. 17:54:06 mon_key: "its" is not "it's" 17:54:08 phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:11 '() => CCL:NIL 17:56:06 stassats`: FWIW i have a sticky note above my desk for the its/it's usage. It doesn't help. I'm borken there. More persuasive forces than you have tried and failed to correct this shortcoming of mine... I apologize in advance for any grief this may have caused you now or in the future. 17:56:37 mon_key: write an emacs lisp post-command-hook to correct your grammar. 17:56:44 pjb: ok, == :) just restating, it might light a bulb 17:57:17 s/CCL/CL/ 17:57:31 pjb: I maybe i should, but i'm trying to avoid forays into Emacs lisp it is a time sink. 17:58:09 making oneself more productive is a time sink? 17:58:15 mon_key: not really. It's quote close to Common Lisp. They even added lexical scope for emacs 24... 17:58:27 and it has cl 17:58:53 And also emacs-cl, a CL implementation written in emacs lisp, which allows you to even write emacs functions and commands in CL. 17:59:52 oh 18:00:03 they changed it ? 18:01:08 It's an add-on. 18:01:14 ah ok 18:01:20 msg minion help 18:02:45 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:02:46 pjb: stassats`: I spent maybe two years of lisp learning time focusing too much on Emacs lisp and not enough on Common Lisp. It was time well spent, however I am nowe trying to focus on CL now. I like that CL has a well defined standard, that there is ready interface to foreign functions, and that any code i target for CL has a higher chance of benefitting others. Code written for emacs lisp will eventually break b/c the maintainers do 18:02:46 not care about the Emacs as a scripting enviroment. It is well established that their position is that Emacs is first and formemost a "text editor" 18:03:58 mon_key: that's why I'd advise to write your "emacs extensions" in emacs-cl, that is, in Common Lisp. More over, when written in emacs-cl, they get a chance of being reusable in a future emacs written in CL. 18:04:33 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-utwpnxckuldslyhm] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:04:35 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:08 pjb: what exactly is emacs-cl? 18:05:29 And also emacs-cl, a CL implementation written in emacs lisp, which allows you to even write emacs functions and commands in CL. 18:05:34 -!- bleakgadfly [51a6aba8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.166.171.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:42 -!- peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:06:06 Somebody should make emacs-cl run quicklisp... 18:06:33 http://www.cliki.net/emacs-cl 18:06:34 you don't need to focus on a scripting language to make your environment better 18:06:42 anyone working on climacs? ;) 18:07:03 pjb: Regardless, I _seriously_ doubt a future Emacs written in CL will not be a "GNU Emacs". Stallman would never allow it... 18:07:17 i've been writing Lua code for scripting ion-3 all the time, but i don't i've spent more than half an hour picking up lua 18:07:25 s/i don't/i don't think/ 18:07:38 mon_key: There might be a phase of forking... 18:07:51 or of virtualizing. 18:08:05 i thought they'd rather use guile 18:08:25 Eventually, all programs will be able to run all programs. Eg. Firefox can now run Linux. 18:08:45 mon_key: http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 18:09:05 pjb: indeed. But Stallman would likely exert strong pressure if that Emacs weren't strictly GPL and a non-GPL'd Emacs is what the CL community is most likely to actively develop towards. 18:10:09 somebody pays attention to Stallman? 18:10:21 emacs developers. 18:10:38 pjb: FWIW i've spent some amount of time adapting code of yours, Steingold's, lice, etc. towards making some parts of CL <-> Emacs functional similiar. 18:11:15 stassats`: FSF lawyers. 18:11:43 neither have any influence over me whatsoever 18:13:16 stassats`: Likely they do when you push to slime-devel 18:13:57 no 18:15:09 you could write your code in guile, since emacs is going to be based on guile any day now. :) 18:16:38 foom: I assume the smiley is some sort of indication of irony? 18:17:26 well, it's been "going to be" for a heck of a long time. 18:18:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:18:57 stassats`: I seem to recall Stefan Monnier indicating that, "Well, pretty much any elisp is GPL by default b/c it is reliant on the underlying lisp machine/byte-code interpreter for execution" 18:20:22 that's some kind of bullshit, but i don't want to discuss it 18:20:35 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:20 stassats`: And didn't Chong Yidong request for slime inclusion with Emacs core? IIRC the consensus was that slime devels (past and present) may not be willing to sign papers with FSF... 18:21:55 yes, and i didn't consent 18:21:56 you have to sign papers to get stuff into emacs core? :D 18:22:13 Copyright assignment. 18:22:17 chiefly because i don't see a reason why slime should be included into emacs 18:22:44 ChibaPet: What does that mean.. "copyright assignment" ? 18:22:53 stassats`: I agree it is complete horseshit, I also don't think slime has any business being incorporated into emacs core :) 18:23:07 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.html 18:23:52 bknr.datastore *sometimes* doesn't remove deleted objects from indexes. Have anyone solved the problem? 18:23:54 i don't care largely about any licenses, all i care is that i can run the code and i can modify it 18:24:18 stassats`: The solution is simple. Write VIM! in CL and include slime in it. No problems with Stallman this way. ;) 18:24:24 ChibaPet: thanks. 18:27:15 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 stassats`: I care about licenses. I care about Common Lisp, I care about Emacs, I wish the CL and Emacs worlds weren't quite as opposed as they are. This isn't going to change though which is why I've come to feel that time spent writing Emacs lisp is better spent writting Common Lisp. 18:28:32 mon_key: I haven't really noticed much of this opposition tbh. I use emacs for slime, it isn't objecting to my lisping 18:28:33 my .emacs is only 850 LOC 18:29:45 besides, last i checked Emacs lisp didn't have BLOCK TAGBODY GO RETURN or RETURN-FROM so I don't see how it can eleveate to a Common Lisp 18:30:37 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:42 it has block, return and return-from 18:31:01 tagbody and go are of questionable utility 18:31:04 stassats: where? 18:31:14 right there! 18:32:37 Well, if CL was a more popular language, not putting slime in emacs would likely mean someone would reimplement it for emacs core. (see also: warring python-modes for emacs; one shipped with python, and a newer crappier one shipped with emacs) 18:32:37 stassats`: have you actually traced the implementation of cl-macs.el `return-from' ? 18:32:53 why should i? 18:33:58 because you blithely assert that (in the context of CL) Emacs-lisp has these things when the functional implementation and interface are quite different. 18:34:13 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:22 i don't care about this discussion at all 18:36:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:36:37 stassats`: OK. So how would you implement (sb!int:defmacro-mundanely loop-finish '(go end-loop)) without CL:GO ? 18:37:10 why would one do that when one can just use sbcl? ;) 18:37:18 i wouldn't find myself implementing it in the first place 18:37:54 The question is, how does one have a common lisp without GO or TAGBODY? 18:39:06 mon_key: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 18:39:17 Yes, i've looked at this :) 18:39:28 mon_key: you don't 18:39:28 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:54 stassats`: May I ask you what problems do other Object Stores have which made you write stassats-storage? 18:40:17 mon_key: i don't see what point are you trying to argue. yes, Emacs Lisp is not ANSI Common Lisp. So what of it? 18:40:32 naryl: not fast enough 18:40:46 and it's not named stassats-storage 18:41:20 and it has no postgresql backend 18:42:14 *stassats`* corrected the cliki page written by someone else 18:42:26 stassats`: Nothing of it. I just find it curious when you assert things like "tagbody and go are of questionable utility" obv. they have some or Henry Baker wouldn't have bothered to draft his Metacircular paper. 18:42:53 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:11 i don't ever use tagbody and go 18:43:13 Whatever, I've resorted to using catch/thrown in Emacs lisp to emulate return/return-from. Indeed I had to do this when porting SBCL's sequence mapping functions to Emacs lisp. 18:45:00 rme [~rme@50.43.138.159] has joined #lisp 18:45:24 -!- zmv [c885c40e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.133.196.14] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:46:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F79A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 18:46:22 The exercise was a fun learning experience and also finalized my distaste for Stallman's ill reasoned objections to allowing incorporation of certain low-level CL like primitives/special operators into Emacs Lisp despite their utility when used to abstract higher level functional interfaces.... 18:51:10 he doesn't stop you from doing so 18:51:27 mon_key: your elisp code is not necessarily GPL, because 1- you don't necessarily distribute it. 2- there are other implementations of emacs lisp. 18:51:46 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 18:52:25 stassats`: this is true. but he has made it quite a bit more difficult that it need be. 18:52:44 Is there a general impression that Clozure CL development is a private club to which outsiders are not welcome? I would not have thought so, but I've spoken with a few people who seem to think that. 18:52:50 mon_key: here's loop-finish without tagbody: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123888 18:53:22 stassats`: how to `labels' without tagbody/go? 18:53:55 better question: how to do `labels' without a computer? 18:54:21 mon_key: That thing you linked has LABELS using FLET. 18:54:38 better yet: how to do `labels' without a Church derived computer? 18:54:50 labels and flet are special operators, i don't care how they are implemented 18:54:51 Bike: I didn't link that. 18:55:01 Oh, whoops. 18:55:28 Bike: Indeed that was the nature of my query to stassats`, e.g. "how to `labels' without tagbody/go?" 18:55:31 and you can't implement your own labels 18:55:31 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-onbfvqubzhtbiffi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:45 mon_key: how to implement labels with tagbody? 18:55:45 stassats`: Baker says you can 18:56:03 rme: I monitor openmcl-devel, and I can't really say I've gotten that impression, fwiw. It does seem like more of an occasional user-support channel than a place for regular ccl-development-related discussion. 18:56:06 mon_key: How about you fork gnu emacs and fix these things stallman apperently screwed up. 18:56:08 stassats`: with flet 18:56:16 pnq [~nick@ACA34D17.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 mon_key: no, flet doesn't work like labels 18:56:52 and, you can't implement your own labels and flet in common lisp 18:56:54 stassats`: we're on different pages -- look at sykopomp's like to Baker 18:57:04 ^link 18:57:21 schme: Why waste time redoing Emacs lisp when I have Common Lisp 18:57:24 this is getting nowhere, i'm not talking about writing your own evaluator 18:57:41 So am i 18:58:02 mon_key: I have no idea. You seem to have big problems with emacs though. I figured it'd help. 18:58:15 making a code-walker is akin to making your own evaluator 18:59:12 Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.29.117.241] has joined #lisp 18:59:47 What is meant by multi-threading in SBCL? 19:00:06 running several native threads at the same time 19:00:18 Indecipherable_: same thing it means outside SBCL. 19:00:53 So, like multi-tasking? 19:01:19 Indecipherable_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(computer_science) 19:01:25 Indecipherable_: no 19:03:29 À propos, is there a portable interface for writing threaded code that gets executed as native threads on supported implementations an green threads on others? 19:03:40 Does bordeaux do something like that? 19:03:43 no 19:04:17 stassats`: Sorry for my double question, but no to which? 19:04:26 to both 19:04:42 OK. 19:06:46 -!- emagdalenag [~emagdalen@41.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:07:54 schme: I don't have issues with Emacs at all. I do however take issue with what happened to Emacs/CL early on in (circa mid 1980s) and the direction it was driven. I do believe that this direction led in some part to the decline of Lisp in lieu of C/Unix and the worse-is-better. Likewise, I take issue when accomplished CL hacks like pjb and stassats suggest that I (an inferior CL hack) take time to code up an Emacs Lisp solution to 19:07:54 correct what amounts to a deficiency in grammar. 19:10:14 -!- Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.29.117.241] has quit [Quit: Say What?] 19:11:13 Looking at la source of bordeaux threads makes me think it actually does that. 19:12:00 antoszka: it misleads you 19:12:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:12:19 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:00 stassats`: it's more of "lost in translation" case 19:14:35 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:17:22 mon_key: I see. I don't think the "stallman incident" was as big a factor in the unix/c domination as you. 19:20:19 mon_key: it's hard to make a program which understands grammar no matter language, but it's trivial to make a big red "look at the post-it" pop up whenever you're sending a message with "its" or "it's" in it 19:21:18 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:22:44 emagdalena [~emagdalen@216.Red-88-4-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:47 stassats`: yes, one could certainly do this for erc-mode such that Emacs would let me know to stop take time to grok the (potential) error and save others from having to do the same. 19:23:39 mon_key: if you took the sources of emacs-cl and made it 100% conforming, and with extensions so that one could load 80% of the libraries available with quicklisp, you wouldn't be an inferior CL hack anymore. That's the point of my suggesting. 19:24:03 mon_key: if it's any consolation, I've somehow managed to write two books without being able to train my fingers to always type the right its/it's even though I know perfectly well which is which. 19:24:03 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 19:24:22 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-149.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:51 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:05 and then throw some than/then in 19:25:22 I believe John Steinbeck also got them wrong a lot. 19:25:34 gigamonkey: the underlying issue is some sort of mental hang-up around its/it's -- The best solution is to just do like they do in that movie "True Grit" and write all contractions out in long form. 19:26:37 or type on a iPad, since special characters are a bore there, you don't type contractions. 19:28:01 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:28:26 pjb: i think you just don't type apostrophes 19:28:30 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:28:36 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:54 s/you/u/, s/don't/dont/ 19:32:31 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:33:26 gigamonkey: FTR the it/it's thing is tender-spot. I am a highschool dropout. I got my GED before heading off to college land. My last exercise as an undergrad was a three month extended torture whereby I had to redraft my "Senior exit essay" 6 times before the overlord would sign a slip of paper granting me final freedom from academia. The spec for exit essay was that it be no more than 300 words of concise, clear, expository English. I 19:33:26 have a lingering doubt that my hangups around they're/their/thre its/it's got me red-flagged by the overlord and she then took it upon herself to fix me. Likely if i'd stuck around highschool longer they would've tortured me there (for free) instead of at the end of my BA (where it required extending a student loan) :) 19:35:00 -!- emagdalena [~emagdalen@216.Red-88-4-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:35:38 Notice, even now i still can't manage to fully type "they're/their/thre" correctly without erroring }: 19:36:41 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:08 El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-64-4.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:22 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:37:36 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:05 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:38:06 wedgeV_ [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:09 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:18 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 19:43:17 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:45:19 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:53:12 gonzojive [~gonzojive@142-141.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-67.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-242.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:04 does anybody have a favorite means of reading/writing rdf triples? Some simple means of doing queries on a few thousand would be nice, too. I'd like to use RDF as the intermediate representation for a web scraper 19:58:42 alegrograph? 20:07:26 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has joined #lisp 20:07:26 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:27 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:07:46 stassats`: it's tempting, and I might try it for this. I would rather use an open source project (LLGPL or BSD licensed preferably) if you've got one to recommend 20:08:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:41 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:23 ASau [~user@95-28-79-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:09:30 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-67.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:10:09 after all, we lisp developer have such vast resources to throw behind open source software 20:11:15 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:17 Or rather, that's because we don't have such vast resources that we should throw the -behind open source software. 20:13:07 If throw-away code is hard to write, then the language isn't efficient enough. 20:13:22 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA34D17.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:14:22 gonzojive: have you looke at Bastian Mueller's n3? 20:15:03 gonzojive: e.g. its' dependencies are rdf-utils cl-rdfxml so presumably rdf-utils and cl-rdfxml will do what you want :) 20:15:03 20:15:16 git://github.com/turbolent/n3.git 20:15:55 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:16:42 pnq [~nick@AC816FCE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:25 -!- nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:18:12 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:21 mon_key: yes, actually. I think I even sent Bastian a message over github a year ago. I was asking him to change the license to LLGPL or BSD 20:19:31 also maybe vivace-graph-v[1|2] will do what you want, or maybe the de.setf stuff... 20:19:38 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:49 gonzojive: yeah, just looked at license 20:20:28 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:43 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-pzjwgbizfrsazdgr] has joined #lisp 20:21:38 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:21:49 gonzojive: I've never used it but it looks nice: https://github.com/kraison/vivace-graph.git 20:23:33 vivace graph does look cool, has anyone used it in here? 20:24:26 blb [~blb@66.158.61.2] has joined #lisp 20:26:04 https://github.com/kraison/vivace-graph-v2 I guess some people don't really realize they're using git. 20:28:04 maybe it's too revolutionary 20:28:10 fwiw: I have an instinctive (untested un-profiled probobaly misplaced) impression that there is a bottleneck around vivace-graph, v1 uuid's, and uuid equality tests. 20:28:19 -!- Xof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:28:23 fourier [~user@h-144-64.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:29:11 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:13 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:30:39 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:32 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:05 The v1 uuids are based on sitting while the system clock waits on updating itself. I wrote this which dramatically increases the minting time of uuid v3 v4 v5: https://github.com/mon-key/unicly there is code in unicly.lisp and unicly-class.lisp which is targetted for vivace-graph-v2 and/or some similarly equivalent object store reliant on minted uuid's for association with persistable objects. 20:33:30 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 20:38:24 peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has joined #lisp 20:40:20 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:41:12 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925097006.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:46:24 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:36 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:17 vivace-graph-v2 uses synchornized hash-tables and sb-concurrency stuff, the bottleneck (if any) is around vivace-graph-v2's use of uuid:make-v1-uuid and by proxy uuid:get-timestamp -- When many uuid's are generated the the spinlocks and concurrency stuff prob. just sits waiting for uuid:make-v1-uuid c.f. vivace-graph-v2:add-triple in vivace-graph-v2/triples.lisp 20:50:07 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:16 Hoerwick [~ryuurei@142.162.11.232] has joined #lisp 20:57:52 Hi there. I'm trying to figure out hashes in Common Lisp, so I tried making a memoization-based implementation of a fib function. I get the error "GETHASH: argument NIL is not a hash table" for the code http://pastie.org/2341330 20:58:13 Hoerwick: perhaps you have your arguments swapped. 20:58:42 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:56 gethash works like (gethash key hash-table), right? 20:58:58 Hoerwick: (setf (gethash ... ) val) 20:59:46 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-192-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:02 <_3b> yeah, that last setf is broken in a few ways 21:01:05 (defparameter *tt--bubba* (make-hash-table)) (setf (gethash "bubba" *tt--bubba* ) "bubba") 21:01:05 21:01:54 Hoerwick: http://pastie.org/2341352 21:03:06 Aha. I see my error. Thanks, guys. 21:05:54 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 21:06:35 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:57 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:00 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:35 -!- ngz [~user@209.141.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:19:40 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:20:22 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:30 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:44 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 21:23:27 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:26:20 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-45.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:45 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 21:34:32 msponge [~msponge@66.102.14.2] has joined #lisp 21:36:03 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816FCE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37:10 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:02 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:25 kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:35 -!- Lone_Wanderer [~Dan@209-6-38-124.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 21:47:37 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:49:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:42 xan_ [~xan@vpn11.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:48 ngz [~user@209.141.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:15 -!- jdz [~jdz@host142-71-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:54:16 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:41 Given ((lambda (a a) (something a)) 'foo 'bar) some implementations error out (sbcl, ccl), some use the 'bar binding for a (clisp, lw)  is that behaviour mentioned in the spec somewhere (even if left verbosely unspecified)? Can't find anything concrete in the CLHS. 21:56:50 elliottc1ble [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 21:56:51 -!- elliottc1ble [~me@ell.io] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:08 just don't do that 21:59:49 Obviously, but a mrSpec just hit that error with some old code (bad macro or something)  the behaviour in ccl seems to have changed regarding that between 1.6  1.7. 21:59:57 s/a/a certain/ 22:00:33 So we were wondering whether that case is covered in the spec anywhere. 22:00:38 the same question about same names in LET 22:01:03 i don't remember seeing anything allowing or disallowing this in the CLHS 22:01:06 Right. 22:02:06 -!- msponge [~msponge@66.102.14.2] has quit [Quit: msponge] 22:02:33 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.17] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:52 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-187-107.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:16 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-pzjwgbizfrsazdgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:09:02 Anybody else get this behavior with new ASDF? 1) asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op system :foo from /dogs/foo.asd 2) realize that /dogs/foo.asd is out of date, so you (load "/cats/foo.asd"). 3) asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op system :foo, but ASDF still tries to load the version in /dogs/? 22:11:08 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-187-107.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:11:49 Does anyone have an idea for the problem I'm having? I'm using the form tag helpers in ActionView::Helpers::FormTagHelper in a /lib file (to move logic from the controller layer), but when I use form_tag and pass a block I get a NoMethodError (undefined method `output_buffer='). The code looks something like this: form_tag(url, :method => :put) do ...[inputs and stuff]... end 22:12:03 oops 22:12:08 sorry about that, wrong channel 22:12:24 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ucbiwzugzfloubda] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:39 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ghnfcjuwwqzbqnra] has joined #lisp 22:15:43 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:20:06 -!- kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:13 kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:20:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:32 mmauryc [~mmmau@cpe-69-201-143-154.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:27:26 -!- drks [~jamiee@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 22:27:39 -!- gonzojive [~gonzojive@142-141.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:29:09 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:31:36 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip72-192-56-169.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:00 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:33:00 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 22:33:40 fourier` [~user@h-144-64.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:35:38 -!- fourier [~user@h-144-64.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:05 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:40:49 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:05 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:34 pnq [~nick@ACA42E3E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:51 zmv [~daniel@201.83.52.222] has joined #lisp 22:52:47 -!- Hoerwick [~ryuurei@142.162.11.232] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57:13 -!- blb [~blb@66.158.61.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:38 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:34 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.206.223] has joined #lisp 23:02:42 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:08 -!- zmv [~daniel@201.83.52.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:47 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:29 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:28 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.15.37] has joined #lisp 23:08:48 fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:08:56 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:14 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.206.223] has quit [Quit: default SIGPORTAL handler] 23:11:15 -!- fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:42 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.15.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:19:37 -!- ngz [~user@209.141.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24:36 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:26:18 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:56 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-64-4.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:26 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.15.37] has joined #lisp 23:31:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:37 hmm when the Hyperspec says on *debugger-hook* "The function may either handle the condition (transfer control)", anyone know how should that be done? Must it invoke a restart? 23:33:49 -!- wedgeV_ [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV_] 23:34:35 phadthai: or use non-local control operators like return, go, throw, ... 23:35:05 thanks 23:36:38 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 23:36:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 23:36:38 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 23:37:33 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:39:17 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:47 Nice, it works like a charm. Thanks again 23:43:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@vpn11.hotsplots.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:10 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:00 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:21 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:24 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:59:43 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]