00:00:30 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-20.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:00:36 Where Wizards ... is quite good. 00:00:42 -!- benny [~benny@i577A82DB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 00:01:07 Oh and, "The Dream Machine: J.C.R. Licklider and the Revolution That Made Computing Personal" 00:01:28 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.67.29.45.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 00:01:44 Heh. I can also second the recommendadion of My System--that was an eye-opener back when I played chess in high-school. ;-) 00:01:48 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.7.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 00:01:54 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 00:03:03 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:32 gigamonkey: thanks a bunch :-) 00:03:48 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09:27 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-064.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@72.19.53.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:13:34 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:36 *sigh* 00:15:39 -!- Lone_AFK is now known as Lone_Wanderer 00:15:51 I really miss being able to shut myself into the basement and program for hours on end. 00:16:56 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-152-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:17:22 Also, I need better speakers. 00:17:26 Lone_Wanderer: are little descendants of yours what stops you from doing so? 00:18:02 One cannot properly saturate one's grey matter in sick beats with the tinny sound coming out of my laptop speakers. 00:18:16 Oh, kids? No, that really would be a death sentence for programming. I'm going back to school. 00:18:35 so now I lock myself in the basement and write business plans and read philosophy ;) 00:18:47 could be worse :-) 00:18:51 Agreed. 00:19:05 -!- Simul` [~user@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:19:34 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:20:04 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:51 Reading the summary for Where Wizards Stay Up Late makes me wonder, when I do have kids... 00:21:13 how will growing up with the internet as a regular part of their lives affect their mental development? 00:21:33 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:50 Lone_Wanderer: do you wonder wether there will be mental development? 00:21:53 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:56 no 00:22:15 the stupidity of pop culture is not a new thing ;) 00:22:40 the fact that they'll be able to suck it down faster and at all times may be a new challenge, but parenting never was easy 00:23:31 if anything I'd be concerned about the improved effectiveness of pop culture in terms of marketing 00:23:35 I'm just wondering what kind of generation gaps I'm going to encounter that will surprise me. 00:23:55 yeah, absolutely 00:24:03 Lone_Wanderer: oh, generation gaps is a great topic... let me see if I can find that great video 00:24:48 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:09 Lone_Wanderer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdSHeKfZG7c 00:25:23 but to be honest, I feel like marketing is... not the Great Satan that some people make it out to be 00:25:33 (not that you're takin that position, littlebobby) 00:25:39 taking* 00:28:10 What's the yellow thing with the handle on top? 00:28:38 rofl those kids with the record player :D 00:28:46 :-) 00:29:16 cute kids, too 00:29:26 tout en parlez francais 00:29:27 that video really is pure gold :-) 00:29:35 (which I'm sure is horrible grammar) 00:29:49 I don't speak french, sorry hehe 00:29:53 *littlebobby* is german 00:29:57 ah okay 00:30:07 What languages do you speak? 00:30:25 Besides German and English, obviously. 00:30:28 german (mother tongue), english, and a few curse words in polish 00:30:37 ok 00:30:44 ah, I'm going to Poland in about a week :) 00:30:55 interesting :-) holiday? 00:30:58 to Gdansk 00:31:02 yes, with a Swedish friend of mine 00:31:11 where are you from? 00:31:20 Well, sort of holiday, sort of a "let's take a week and really figure out where this is going" ;) 00:31:24 I'm in Boston right now. 00:31:30 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-182-222.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:51 well, that's probably going to be a great week then :-) 00:32:05 I'm sure it will be lovely in at least one way :) 00:32:08 ah, in a week, not for 00:32:28 both - going there in a week, and staying for one week 00:33:29 haven't been in poland for a few years, but it's always been interesting. a little bit like traveling in a time machine, or so I felt. but that has changed "recently" 00:34:07 I mean, over the years there were more and more international franchises showing up etc. 00:35:15 what's the history of Poland? Have they been independent pretty much since the end of the 30 years war? 00:35:21 Or were they part of the USSR? 00:35:42 Lone_Wanderer: We were sold by FDR to Stalin, but it was still officially independent 00:35:52 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.7.93] has joined #lisp 00:36:02 Man, fucking FDR. What a dick. 00:36:10 ;) 00:36:29 Well, he didn't measure to previous Roosvelt ;-) 00:36:33 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:39 Lone_Wanderer: my parents "ran" from the commies in the 70s 00:36:56 p_l|backup: I've heard some high praise about your commandos, by the way. 00:36:58 or "fled", nothing too spectacular 00:37:26 From US military special operators, so it's from someone who knows what they're talking about ;) 00:37:58 but there's one interesting bit about it. they had to keep their marriage secret in order to both be able to move to west-berlin where there was family already, but I think only from my mothers side 00:38:13 Why would it matter that they were married? 00:38:17 Lone_Wanderer: in a way, it's a running joke of history regarding Poland... for example, we would be fourth military power in 1945 if not for the divide between western and eastern. :) 00:38:28 Lone_Wanderer: getting pasport, probably 00:38:32 *passport 00:38:53 Lone_Wanderer: if they were married, only one would get passport 00:38:57 p_l|backup: What do you mean about the running joke? Do you mean about commandos, or about FDR? 00:39:04 ahh, one for both of them? 00:39:04 Lone_Wanderer: because if they knew she was married, her "family" was her and my father, so she wouldn't have been allowed to move out 00:39:14 Lone_Wanderer: commandos. We've been fighting in probably all wars in last 200 years 00:39:47 at least all in Europe 00:39:58 oh, so she said "I want to move to be with my family" and if she were married they would have said "Your family is here, you can't leave"? 00:40:17 p_l|backup: that's impressive :) 00:40:28 p_l|backup: indeed, one would have had to stay in poland. that happened with a cousin of my fathers, I think. she went to berlin and some relative of hers had her kids for I think 4 years 00:40:33 Lone_Wanderer: as well as used the trick of ensuring someone from close family doesn't have passport 00:40:37 the thing I heard about was seizing the oil fields in the second gulf war 00:40:39 Lone_Wanderer: indeed 00:40:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:41:20 Lone_Wanderer: as for visits, go see Warsaw Uprising museum in Warsaw 00:41:41 isn't Warsaw down south? 00:41:51 it is, but you might manage to swing by there :) 00:42:01 I guess I don't know how big of a country Poland is - the map I saw looked like it would be a long trip from Gdansk. 00:42:13 Lone_Wanderer: depends on the mode of transport 00:42:18 train 00:42:21 and walking ;) 00:42:30 unfortunately, the last guys who knew how to build infrastructure were the commies 00:42:35 oh that sucks 00:42:56 train will be slow, but it will be single route 00:43:11 getting a sleeper might be a good idea :) 00:43:24 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:25 ok :) I'll see if we can fit it in 00:43:25 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:43:25 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:43:28 p_l|backup: regarding the high military praise... the rumor of there being cia prisons in poland comes to my mind, ever heard anything about that ... yeah yeah conspiracy time :-) 00:43:38 lol 00:43:47 only rumors 00:43:59 but, if there were some there, I wouldn't know about them 00:44:33 littlebobby: there's this bit called Geneva Conventions that would make them more than highly illegal 00:44:42 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:13 Why would that be illegal under the geneva convention? 00:45:40 Can you take this conversation elsewhere? 00:45:46 also I should add that I don't speak for or represent the US government :P 00:45:47 benny [~benny@i577A8E31.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:45:47 Lone_Wanderer: a little bit of googling later... I think this is what I had in mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site 00:45:55 pkhuong: sure 00:45:59 yes, sorry pkhuong, you're right - this isn't the channel for it 00:46:12 Lone_Wanderer: single word - "torture". But this is waay OT. 00:46:24 Lone_Wanderer: anyway, you were starting some business with CL? 00:47:00 I started a channel ##conspiracies if you guys want to talk in there :P 00:47:10 Lone_Wanderer: not really :-) 00:47:13 okay 00:47:35 Lone_Wanderer: tell us about your upcoming cl-based business 00:48:12 well, it's a class project to put together a business plan actually 00:48:25 but I figure if I'm doing such a project I'd might as well do it as well as possible and maybe something will come of it 00:49:20 but, the idea is to build a business process management (BPM) platform and market it to the aviation industry 00:50:06 Lone_Wanderer: do you have experience in that direction? 00:50:27 yes 00:50:38 both in building BPM software and in aviation 00:50:54 sorry, "what is your experience in that direction"? 00:50:55 ah 00:50:57 Lone_Wanderer: hmmm... in case of anyone questioning Lisp use, you can point them to Piano :D 00:51:24 googling it now 00:51:48 BPM is a very mature market - Microsoft, IBM, HP, and basically everyone have products and platforms for it. 00:52:17 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.200.54] has joined #lisp 00:52:19 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.200.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:37 Lone_Wanderer: and you have ideas how to one-up them? 00:52:40 My idea is to build a BPM language in Lisp, then use that to build a BPM language for a specific market (aviation), then use that to write software specifically for each company 00:52:48 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@46.67.29.45.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:25 Lone_Wanderer: what is special about bpm in aviation? 00:53:29 the idea being that we should be able to deliver custom-made software that's flexible enough to change with their company as their processes change for about the same amount of money that they'd pay for an out-of-the-box solution from Microsoft or IBM. 00:53:30 Lone_Wanderer: Use Lisp's strengths in creating tight abstractions to avoid complexity of traditional approach 00:53:32 *littlebobby* has no clue about bpm 00:53:57 littlebobby: the specific processes, for example decisions related to flight management, safety, etc. 00:54:15 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.200.54] has joined #lisp 00:54:29 To be honest, nothing - it's just a business that I know and have contacts in. 00:54:34 then, your BPM language would be a dsl ? 00:54:37 DSL* 00:55:09 I also looked at real estate, alcoholic beverage producers and a few others. 00:55:28 The_third_man: yes, exactly - a sort of stack of DSL's 00:55:34 with the highest one being for a specific company 00:56:14 we'd also offer training to some of their employees in how to use the highest-level DSL so that small changes could be made by their own staff 00:56:35 uh, I thought that a bpm platform would be an application instead :o 00:56:56 Lone_Wanderer: I'm aware ACLs are something different, but I'm still reminded of zed shaw's talk about them, and how they solved the problem of implementing ACLs: http://vimeo.com/2723800 00:56:56 this way we eliminate one of the biggest annoyances (being called back continually for small changes) and create a revenue stream (annual retraining and training new staff) at the same time 00:57:06 not familiar with ACL's 00:57:23 (yet) 00:57:25 not necessary for viewing the talk :-) 00:57:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:58:25 dammit I lost 00:58:54 he talks about rules on paper being implemented in code for example, and how traditional ACL implementations would suffer from complexity 00:59:10 ahh 00:59:14 yes, I've run into this 00:59:27 how the rules on paper are actually turing complete or so, I don't quite remember 00:59:57 k. watching the video, I'll brb. 01:00:01 he said something along those lines to explain the possible complexity 01:00:04 heh 01:00:21 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:01:02 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:01:57 oudeis [~oudeis@109.64.200.17] has joined #lisp 01:09:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B94D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:33 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:20:33 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:22:11 mobydick [~textual@202-161-7-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:28:42 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:29:14 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:23 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:31:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:26 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:33:51 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:22 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:30 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:34:36 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:35:22 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:37:45 tolstoy [~Keith@c-24-20-143-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:49 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 01:44:15 oh, by the way- what exactly is cloud computing? Does it actually mean anything? 01:44:51 Lone_Wanderer, it is mostly a buzzword 01:45:09 but the idea is to parallelize computing on a lot of computers 01:45:17 -!- mobydick [~textual@202-161-7-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:45:34 it's basically parallelization and dynamic allocation of resources, right? 01:45:44 mostly 01:46:07 so your resource usage can scale more easily and you don't only have to be billed for what you're using at any given time? 01:46:07 okay 01:46:29 I'm pretty sure that one of the guys in my class is going to talk about cloud computing, because that's all he ever says when computers come up 01:46:47 Lone_Wanderer: what class is that? 01:46:50 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:46:53 business communications 01:47:53 I see. 01:48:00 Indeed. 01:48:01 Lone_Wanderer: yeah, being able to flexibly meet increases in load 01:48:30 I think "cloud computing" is much more interesting for non-IT fields than it is in the tech industry. Mainly because it's just a (somewhat overloaded) term for something that has been done for decades already. 01:49:12 loke: yeah, it's only so "interesting" now because it has become so easy to manage recently 01:49:12 Yeah, I didn't pay much attention to it because it didn't sound new or interesting. 01:49:20 But I would like to be able to respond intelligently if it comes up. 01:50:15 Lone_Wanderer: I'm watching the talk too btw, his business-y advice is probably helpful for you as well :-) 01:50:16 Lone_Wanderer: the type of "pay as you go" plan for computing is how most computing was done in the early days (70's) 01:50:23 It has been, yes :) 01:50:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing#Issues << you can feed the troll with this 01:50:42 nice 01:52:26 btw, did someone tried demomaking with lisp yet ? 01:52:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:52:46 my standard response when someone says "That's all great, but have you thought about [buzzword]?" is to say "[buzzword] is a very good tool, and in situations where it solves a problem that our customers encounter we would of course recommend that they use it; however, at this time we haven't seen a need for it in our company." 01:52:55 The_third_man: I've been toying around with it 01:53:16 do you have resources ? 01:53:38 I would like to take a look inside demomaking myself, with a fun langugae 01:53:38 demomaking as in 4kb demos? 01:53:42 yep 01:53:45 I probably won't do anything with it though. It's been 15 years since my last demo release 01:54:04 The_third_man: I'd like to see the results of your research then :-) 01:54:07 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:29 The_third_man: you were part of a demo group? 01:54:32 never 01:54:32 if it's about using lisp for it 01:54:42 learning from scratch 01:54:56 but I think I'll a lot of useful stuff 01:55:04 The_third_man: My old group. Still active, although I'm not: http://www.dhs.nu/ 01:56:22 Wow... Heavy rainfall this morning. 01:56:31 Tropical rain is fun :-) 01:57:20 I don't know 01:58:05 does it destroys all the recolts with a 5 minutes rain which turns into hail ? 01:58:09 (in july) 01:58:13 (in south of France) 02:01:45 -!- Organometallica [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:13 The_third_man: No hail. Tropical climate here. 02:02:56 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:07 Here, a rainfall is often heavy enough that just taking a few steps outside makes you just as wet as if you'd been standing under a shower. 02:03:47 I think he was referring to a level in a video game, but I'm not sure. 02:04:23 nope :p 02:04:55 We have a particular kind of weather in south of france 02:05:11 The_third_man: I know. I've spent many summers there 02:05:28 my family owns a house in Coullioure 02:05:30 Collioure 02:05:54 nice place :) 02:06:08 Yeah, especially in the early 90's. Now there are too many tourists there 02:09:42 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 02:14:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:23 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:21:24 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21:26 willian [~god@117.36.37.157] has joined #lisp 02:28:06 Lone_Wanderer: re "shut myself into the basement and program for hours on end" ... I've recently started using the xmonad window manager and it greatly helped me increase focus, even though I didn't expect that. I'm running it completely without status and/or taskbar unlike gnome 02:29:06 I'm on Windows Vista ;) 02:29:49 no bueno then :-) 02:30:07 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:07 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:30:08 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 02:30:20 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 02:30:42 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:30 tbh, I've had pretty good luck with Windows over the years 02:31:35 I get Putty on ehre 02:31:37 here* 02:31:44 ssh into my server 02:32:29 and do everything I need to on there. Bonus - Putty can be run on any Windows machine that has access to the internet - you don't have to save or install anything. 02:32:46 So if I can find any computer anywhere, I can pretty much get access to a computing environment I'm familiar with ;) 02:34:03 :-) 02:34:32 I realize that this would apply even if I had a *nix box at home, but... I just don't care that much. 02:34:38 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:46 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 02:35:33 Wow, xmonad looks even more minimalistic than my setup. 02:36:14 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:36:24 I should buy some old computers and install different OS's on them 02:36:29 Bike: heh, which is? xmonad has a nice keybind-setup out of the box http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Xmbindings.png 02:36:49 so I can finally have my own network and perform penetration testing on it :P 02:37:20 if only sawfish was CL :P 02:37:49 littlebobby: awesome, though some of the other xmonad screenshots have it using more space. 02:38:06 They even have similar keys, looks like. 02:38:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:39:38 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39:56 Bike: I've used awesome years ago, but used gnome the last few ones 02:40:29 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.7.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 02:40:42 Mm. A friend of mine just got tired about me complaining about minor inconveniences in GNOME and said I might be happier with a minimalistic tiled manager, and I guess I am. 02:40:48 looked at stumpwm because it's written in CL by that stumbled on xmonad as well which to me is much more usable out of the box 02:41:26 Yeah, same. I don't know enough Lua to hack on my configuration very well, either. 02:42:10 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:42:54 I don't know enough haskell either, but I'm inclined to learn otherwise already, nut only because I'm reading "the haskell road to logic, math & programming", but also 02:43:08 nut only... heh 02:44:06 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:44:21 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:58 so many interesting books, topics to read (about), never enough time for all of it 02:50:54 -!- zanea [~zanea@210-86-94-112.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:51:06 Lone_Wanderer: so one thing regarding future generations is very clear: they'll suffer even more from information overload 02:51:21 well, I'm wondering whether they'll suffer from it at all 02:51:27 how come? 02:51:30 since they'll grow up with it, to them it'll just be the way the world is 02:52:10 and I suspect that, because their brains developed while being exposed to so much information, it will change how they develop in such a way that will allow them to deal with it better 02:52:16 hmm, they might not think anything of it, as they don't know otherwise, but will it be more bearable for them? 02:52:32 hmm 02:52:43 -!- tolstoy [~Keith@c-24-20-143-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:52:50 Contemporary college students are still bad at multitasking. 02:52:54 I may be giving the human brain more credit than it really deserves, but I think it's pretty flexible 02:55:38 also, to whomever told me about Piano, thank you - this is a fantastic example 02:57:28 Oh my God, this program looks so cool 03:00:03 Lone_Wanderer: link? 03:09:14 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 03:10:14 Piano 03:10:20 http://www.lissys.demon.co.uk/index2.html 03:10:27 mmmm 03:10:42 so now I'm thinking - it seems like Lisp and aviation sort of go together... am I just imagining this? 03:11:12 since I'm looking for examples it's probably confirmation bias, but I seem to be seeing a lot of Lisp in the aviation industry, which I haven't really seen in other areas so much 03:11:47 tzatzatza [~ht@WOPR-p-144-134-27-245.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:12:52 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:33 zanea [~zanea@210-86-94-112.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:14:30 dxddxd 03:15:49 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:30 -!- tzatzatza [~ht@WOPR-p-144-134-27-245.prem.tmns.net.au] has left #lisp 03:23:04 Lone_Wanderer: isn't orbitz the leader in it's market? 03:23:44 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:24:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Boy, you're gonna carry that weight, carry that weight, a long time...] 03:25:07 -!- willian [~god@117.36.37.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:40 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27:45 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 03:35:09 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:10 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 03:44:28 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:46:20 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:51 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:51:24 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:52:03 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 03:58:29 DelPuerto [~youguy@81.pool85-51-145.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 03:59:32 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@81.pool85-51-145.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 04:01:32 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180100191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:02:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 04:04:35 littlebobby: It might be now, but iirc it came into a market that was already "mature" (meaning that they had to win customers away from people who were already providing the same service) 04:05:27 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180096089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:11 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:12:07 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 04:17:53 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:46 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 04:24:32 MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:36 Lone_Wanderer: that's even more impressive 04:24:45 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:42 ..... 04:25:47 off topic: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44043847/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/?gt1=43001 04:25:54 but I'm pissed :P 04:28:35 Lone_Wanderer: it's not like we haven't been stretching the term off-topic already, so don't worry 04:29:16 I hope the DART gets in and out safely. 04:30:32 dart? 04:31:15 downed aircraft recovery team 04:32:11 ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:32:25 since this is the 160th (the special operations aviation unit) they'll probably be a little rougher and tougher than a standard DART, which would basically be a bunch of infantrymen who would provide security while aviation techs destroyed any sensitive electronics on board and documented the crash 04:32:28 well, I think the troops shouldn't be there in the first place, but let's not get too much on paul's nerves again 04:32:52 Right. The question of whether we should be there at all is a valid one. 04:33:25 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:23 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:34:28 But I have some personal connections and long-term friendships with people in the 160th (special operations aviation - the people who were flying the aircraft that went down), as well as with SEAL Team 6. 04:35:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:35:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has left #lisp 04:36:13 cfy [~cfy@125.123.20.220] has joined #lisp 04:36:13 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.20.220] has quit [Changing host] 04:36:13 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:37:12 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:39:02 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:39:47 when I visited c.l.l for the first time I was shocked (as much as you can get shocked from visiting an ml, which isn't much) how much bullshit there is, so I can absolutely understand paul shooing away "bad" topics. I've never seen a ml with that amount of poor trolls wasting their and everybody elses time 04:39:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:40:13 what's c.l.l.? 04:40:19 comp.lang.lisp 04:40:22 ahh 04:40:25 the mailing list (ml) 04:40:30 *Lone_Wanderer* nods. 04:40:43 I can imagine that c.l.l. gets a lot of trolls :) 04:42:22 so I can understand that people don't want this channel to turn into a vortex of feces as well 04:42:26 Indeed. 04:42:39 I was just upset and you guys happened to be here ;) 04:43:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.200.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:30 oh I wasn't talking about this one specifically, don't worry. I've been the "offender" myself a few times since I started coming here (which isn't long) 04:43:34 mmkay 04:43:42 just got a text from one of my friends, he's fine :) 04:43:55 good to hear :-) 04:44:12 it's not a mailing list. It's usenet. 04:44:46 sykopomp: whoops, I'm part of the eternal september movement, so what do I know :-) 04:45:11 pretty much 04:45:34 for a septemberist? yeah, maybe 04:46:26 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.200.54] has joined #lisp 04:47:00 I like how I've turned an off-topic into an off-topic meta-discussion about off-topic 04:52:57 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 04:52:57 XD 04:55:37 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:55:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:01:45 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180100191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:01:52 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:01:59 Good morning everyone! 05:01:59 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:00 morning plage 05:04:46 Hunden [~Hunden@e180102063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:06:15 kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:09 c.l.l is a newsgroup. 05:11:54 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:12:56 I'm pretty sure it's a Gopher directory, actually. 05:13:02 oh, sykopomp already said that. 05:13:43 No wait, it's a BBS! 05:16:00 Lone_Wanderer: it is a usenet newsgroup. You must be very young not to know about those. 05:16:13 *Lone_Wanderer* smiles. 05:16:47 Too young to know about usenet groups, but old enough to have used Gopher when it was still relevant? ;) 05:17:03 I see yes. 05:17:41 I'm not the Ancient of Days by any means, but I did get a chance to use Gopher when I was in high school. 05:18:18 "This is the Internet, kids." "...this is it? It looked WAY cooler on Hackers. This sucks." 05:20:56 That was before I got a dialup account and started finding old 2600 articles online, became a L0pht fanboy, and tried to make a blue box XD 05:21:30 (without realizing that telephone systems had moved WAY beyond the technology blue boxes took advantage of in what was already becoming the dim and distant past) 05:22:02 I just got an operator going "wtf?" and when I tried pushing the 2600 CPS tone she laughed and said "Those don't work any more." 05:22:46 Which means that somewhere, out there, is another geek who used to work as a telephone operator (who probably has perfect pitch, since he recognized the tone immediately) who likes to tell the story about how he caught some kid trying to blue box one day. 05:23:22 You don't need perfect pitch to recognize certain tones, do you? 05:23:34 no, but that's kind of a random thing to recognize 05:24:12 out of all the tones a handset can produce 05:24:22 Not if you've been working in telephony for a while, right? 05:24:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:24:33 I don't know... I never did 05:24:46 (work in telephony) 05:24:58 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 05:25:10 What's "CPS" stand for there, by the way? 05:25:14 cycles per second 05:25:31 Oh. 05:25:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600_hertz - this page has a thing you can click to listen 05:26:12 it seems to me like if you're a telephone operator, and you get on a line and you hear some tones... I don't know, maybe you're right 05:26:26 but if your system doesn't use this particular one any more, why would you recognize it at all, etc. 05:26:40 also I hope that moth didn't fly into my coffee 05:27:04 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-186-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:38 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 05:29:03 it says LOUD on the page for a reason, interesting 05:29:08 beep 05:29:14 yep. just a beep. 05:29:19 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:24 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:20 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:01 -!- kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:33:30 hm, I think it's around D# two octaves up. 05:34:31 It's between an E and an Eb 05:34:51 so, yeah, about a D# ;) 05:36:07 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:36:24 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:34 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:38:00 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.200.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:39:21 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:50:41 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:58:10 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:59:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:08:29 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:09:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:12:01 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:12:50 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:16:44 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-186-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 06:18:06 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:18:31 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:21:42 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:22:31 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-127.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:32:15 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:13 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 06:47:03 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-228-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 06:48:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-twewheoxufezspyw] has joined #lisp 06:48:04 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:51:27 -!- zanea [~zanea@210-86-94-112.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 06:54:03 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:05:29 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-25-226.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:05:29 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-25-226.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:05:29 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:05:52 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 07:09:09 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:09:09 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:17:10 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:17:18 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:35 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06c710.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:38 Good morning! 07:31:01 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:33:47 evening! 07:34:23 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 07:39:42 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:24 hi 07:44:49 Is there a standard function to replace atoms in a tree? 07:45:38 yes 07:45:49 but I can't remember the name. 07:45:56 Look in the conses dictionary. 07:46:02 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:17 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:47:03 subst 07:47:07 thanks 07:48:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-127.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:17 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.143.196] has joined #lisp 07:51:24 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:53:19 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-221.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:53:38 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:54:26 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:54:31 nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:41 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:41 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:15 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 08:00:42 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:01:09 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:01:58 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 08:04:10 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:57 _6502_ [5e24eadb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.234.219] has joined #lisp 08:09:17 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 08:11:44 <_6502_> Hello. Does anyone have a pointer to a reasonably simple lisp autoindent function that is smarter that just using 4 spaces per nesting level? I mean something that given a list of previous lines tells me how much should the next line be indented... 08:12:43 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.225] has joined #lisp 08:12:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.225] has quit [Changing host] 08:12:43 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:13:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-107-68.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:13:45 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 08:14:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-twewheoxufezspyw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:52 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:15:07 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-186-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:46 _6502_: hi 08:19:48 <_6502_> hya posterdati: Does your scheme-in-the-browser have an autoindenting REPL? 08:22:39 _6502_: no 08:23:06 _6502_: but first of all what is a scheme-in-the-browser? 08:23:33 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 08:25:23 <_6502_> posterdati: sorry... may be wrong person. Yesterday there was someone around here that wrote a scheme->javascript compiler. I'm writing a lisp2->javascript compiler and it runs in a browser... the autoindent is kinda dumb however so I'm looking around for a better algorithm 08:25:50 daniel [~daniel@p5082B5DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:58 ah ok, not me then, I only wrote a prog to solve circuits :) LOL 08:26:25 _6502_: try looking at emacs's lisp mode source? elisp is a pain, but mostly gets it right. 08:26:30 _6502_: like this? --> http://www.biwascheme.org/ 08:27:15 <_6502_> solving circuits like this one ? http://xkcd.com/356/ 08:28:32 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p508297F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:29:18 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:27 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:31:22 _6502__ [5e24eadb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.234.219] has joined #lisp 08:31:28 <_6502__> back... 08:31:28 -!- _6502_ [5e24eadb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.234.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:10 <_6502__> i tried that scheme but it's an interpreter and running (fibo 30) killed the page and also (for unknown reasons) this webchat page 08:34:35 <_6502__> also it has no autoindent at all (it only indents by a fixed amount if parenthesis are unbalanced) 08:34:38 _6502__, i run fib 30 in a few secs in google chrome 08:34:57 but now i added a numeric tower and now writing type inference to make it fast again 08:35:01 :| 08:35:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 08:35:59 cause otherwise even "tak" takes a minute 08:36:00 <_6502__> (fibo 30) runs in 140ms on chrome on this machine, but i'm using javascript numbers 08:36:28 <_6502__> do you have an autoindentig REPL ? 08:36:29 which impl? does it have call/cc? 08:36:31 no 08:36:39 it's not even self-hosting yet :( 08:36:53 weirdo: you're the author of biwascheme? 08:36:57 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:36:59 pnq, no 08:37:03 i have my own, called seaking 08:37:09 ah 08:37:10 <_6502__> biwascheme is an interpreter 08:37:19 mine is a pure compiler 08:37:21 :) 08:38:09 <_6502__> weirdo: i've no call/cc (it's about lisp, not scheme :-) ) ... also i've not implemented tagbody (i've some idea about how to do it however) 08:38:52 _6502__, well, without call/cc and numeric tower it's blazingly fast 08:38:54 <_6502__> right now i'm implementing (/= ...) 08:39:27 <_6502__> does scheme have a variadic /= operator the same as CL ? 08:41:04 no 08:41:09 it has (not (= ...)) 08:41:19 -!- ph1234k [~ph1234k@unaffiliated/ph1234k] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:41:32 <_6502__> it's different :-) ... (/= 1 2 3 1) is false 08:41:48 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:42:09 <_6502__> basically means "they're all distinct" 08:47:14 <_6502__> weirdo: i'm going to unroll it only for up to two operands, and call a function for n>2 08:47:15 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 08:48:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123847 08:48:54 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:49:02 <_6502__> weirdo: i've also decided to go for short-circuited relational operators... (< (foo) (bar) (baz)) may never call baz. I took this decision after seeing that python foo() < bar() < baz() does the same.... 08:49:21 i don't like the idea 08:49:32 < ought to be a function 08:49:39 and you ought to use applicative order 08:49:58 <_6502__> hmmm that macro is evaluating all intermediate terms twice... 08:50:09 <_6502__> no? 08:50:35 no 08:50:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:41 because it's after CPS-transformation 08:50:53 and there are only atoms in 'form' 08:53:22 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:54:17 <_6502__> i trust guido guts feeling about short circuiting in this (it's also my same feeling) 08:54:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:55:11 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:00:58 Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.28.95.76] has joined #lisp 09:01:49 I'm really battling to install quicklisp on sbcl 09:02:26 JiMbo_dR4ke [~jiMbo@117.207.164.129] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 How hard can it be? 09:03:47 <_6502__> i'm an idiot on those things, but it was dead easy even for me 09:04:02 Indecipherable_: What is your problem? 09:04:21 <_6502__> indeciphrable: if you're using ubuntu however you'd better remove (and purge) clisp from the standard distribution 09:04:48 <_6502__> indeciphrerable: there is a conflict in some shared lisp configuration 09:05:21 *_6502__* hates debian people when they split and merge things 09:05:21 hi people 09:05:42 I'm using windows lol 09:06:12 <_6502__> indecipherable: i'm not sure you should be laughing 09:06:20 Indecipherable_: I'm sure people can be of more assistance if you describe what you're doing and what errors are occuring. 09:06:52 -!- gonzojive [~gonzojive@142-141.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 09:06:53 -!- JiMbo_dR4ke [~jiMbo@117.207.164.129] has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:22 Yes I am working on it 09:08:51 when I load quicklisp.lisp 09:09:14 It says: Don't know how to REQUIRE SB-BSD-SOCKETS. 09:10:00 Indecipherable_: I have no idea what the state of sbcl is on windows. Perhaps you will have better luck with ccl. 09:11:37 I'll ask on the forum then. Thanks 09:12:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:13:43 there's a forum? 09:15:16 <_6502__> indecipherable: i had no problem with sbcl and quicklisp on windows... are you using the latest versions of both? 09:17:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:46 -!- Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.28.95.76] has quit [Quit: OUCH!!!] 09:19:23 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:42 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-186-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:26:00 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:18 Organometallica [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:39 JiMbo_dR4ke [~jiMbo@117.201.137.17] has joined #lisp 09:30:51 Is there a free compiler for APL? 09:31:17 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3790B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:31:41 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-153.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:32:30 Oh, God 09:32:33 Piano 09:32:37 I love this program 09:32:46 I want it to have my babies 09:33:38 what is it ? 09:33:47 and I wonder if it has UAVs in its database 09:34:02 it's a program (in Lisp, of course) that provides analysis of aircraft 09:34:16 http://www.lissys.demon.co.uk/index.html 09:34:45 -!- JiMbo_dR4ke [~jiMbo@117.201.137.17] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:34:55 nice :D 09:35:11 yeah 09:35:16 it helps that I think aircraft are sexy 09:35:20 and that I think Lisp is sexy 09:35:26 so, put them together, and... oh man 09:36:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-153.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36:47 speaking of which, I need to find out when my friend comes back from Spain so she can show me around MIT's aviation labs :D 09:37:07 JiMbo_dR4ke [~jiMbo@117.201.137.17] has joined #lisp 09:37:16 -!- JiMbo_dR4ke [~jiMbo@117.201.137.17] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.205] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:38:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-153.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:06 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:19 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 09:40:58 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:43:51 Lone_Wanderer, you're at MIT ? 09:43:56 no 09:44:02 :( 09:44:04 I'm across the street 09:44:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.143.196] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 09:44:24 at that other school in Cambridge ;) 09:44:56 Sorry, but I only heard about MIT, and I thought it was in Boston :p 09:45:21 ahh 09:45:28 well, Cambridge is right next to Boston 09:45:43 ok 09:45:47 so right next to it that most of the time people just don't bother to make the distinction 09:46:09 except that there are several universities in "Boston", but as far as I know there's only really two in Cambridge 09:46:18 what's yours ? 09:46:21 Harvard 09:46:28 ok :D 09:46:33 SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 09:46:47 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.7.93] has joined #lisp 09:46:56 then, you are the elite of the nation 09:47:00 They're right next door to each other. Students at either school can actually enroll in classes at the other one. 09:47:01 pfsh 09:47:11 I'm only here for summer school. 09:47:19 <_6502__> weirdo: what js code is your compiler producing for (< 1 2 3)? 09:47:41 _6502__, something with %primitive-< 09:47:41 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.36.30] has joined #lisp 09:47:47 and AND 09:47:50 hi 09:48:14 <_6502__> weirdo: calling a function for each pair comparison? 09:48:16 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-32-148.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:48:30 yes 09:49:00 except the arguments are already evaluated, so there's no short-circuit with AND 09:49:05 it's always this way with compiler-macros 09:49:06 i'm in a really strange error: i use a function to make an instance in a particolar way. I setf the object created in a variable with (setf var (function-that-make-instance)), then when i use one of the accessor the object change his name! 09:49:28 (it's also more strange because it not happens every time!) 09:50:13 <_6502__> weirdo: isn't that overkilling for (< x y) ? 09:50:16 it's possible that the problem is due to the setf? 09:50:29 _6502__, what? 09:51:01 (%primitive-< k x y) 09:51:19 and the function operates on two arguments 09:51:29 there's also < that operates on a rest-list 09:51:36 but i don't use it much, except in generic functions 09:51:37 <_6502__> weirdo: i get (< x y) compiled to final javascript as "(d$$x < d$$y)" 09:51:51 _6502__, you don't have CPS :P 09:52:42 <_6502__> weirdo: you say that as if it's a bad thing :-) 09:53:11 _6502__, it's hard to do stuff like AJAX or green threads w/o CPS 09:53:21 after few test i correct my statement: it's possible that an object change his name withouth reason? :-| 09:53:22 or sockets in JS with flash applet :) 09:53:49 which shouldn't block the JS main thread 09:54:38 <_6502__> weirdo: I'm not sure i understand... ajax is trivial; (ajax "boot.lisp" (lambda (x) (load-from-string x))) 09:55:06 _6502__, i prefer on having green threads and streams for it 09:55:43 except these threads aren't preemptible :( 09:55:46 <_6502__> weirdo: oh... ok, mine is instead modeled on javascript (that's why i've NaN, null and no car/cdr) 09:56:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-32-148.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:56:06 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-16-103.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:56:11 mine isn't 09:56:16 well 09:56:30 <_6502__> weirdo: so you're after cons cells? 09:56:41 MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:05 a bit, yes 09:58:14 also, i have unbounded tail recursion 09:58:28 <_6502__> weirdo: yeah... i know scheme requires it 09:58:38 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 09:59:02 <_6502__> weirdo: but cannot you just place everywhere (switch) calls for the preemptive switching? 09:59:11 what do you mean? 09:59:29 i don't plan on having preemption for green threads 09:59:32 there's no reason to 09:59:50 only for "sleeping" 09:59:50 <_6502__> weirdo: ah... ok, i thought the sad face was because you wanted preemptive threads 10:00:26 i could implement yield-thread or sth 10:00:40 but what for? i have to run in a timeout anyway so 10:00:55 hmm 10:01:08 i *could* run the scheduler immediately after yield-thread, so it makes sense 10:01:54 <_6502__> weirdo: i'm even more radical... js already has an execution model and i'm using that. for the same reason i'm modeling lists into js arrays 10:02:44 <_6502__> weirdo: i can't help thinking that at least partially cons cells are there just because of PDP 10:02:57 i love tail-recursing with cons cells 10:02:57 :) 10:03:06 no way i'm switching to vectors 10:03:45 <_6502__> weirdo: i'm even having "push" that puts the new element at the end ... (may be i'll change that to push-back) 10:06:10 <_6502__> by the way... am I the only one that keeps getting push arguments swapped when coding in lisp? 10:06:38 6502 lol no 10:07:12 <_6502__> gethash is also a drama... i've to give it a shot in the repl each time :-D 10:08:48 *_6502__* thinks that every function with a fixed number of parameters greater than 1 should only accept keyword arguments 10:09:08 could i make a question? 10:09:27 <_6502__> could I ask if I could ask a question? 10:09:35 inception 10:09:36 so 10:09:46 i've som inconsistence with the object 10:10:02 i create an object, then sometimes (and sometimes NOT), it change its name. 10:10:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.50.124] has joined #lisp 10:10:11 withouth any reason. 10:10:21 is that normal? 10:10:51 what do you mean by "its name".. Objects don't have a name really, they are just pointers like conses 10:11:19 <_6502__> vaaal: show some code... is "name" a field in a struct? class? 10:11:19 <--this 10:11:26 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.64.200.17] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:11:38 ah its just a default prinnted value for teh object, the #xc9a3d03 is its address 10:11:47 ah 10:11:47 it will change when its garbage collected 10:11:51 ahhhh 10:11:53 so it's normal? 10:11:57 <_6502__> vaaal: garbage collecter are allowed to move around things 10:12:01 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:01 oook 10:12:02 <_6502__> collectors 10:12:03 thank you 10:12:13 you can define your own print function for the object, its a CLOS method called "print-object" 10:12:15 so isn't a good idea identify an object with that value. 10:12:40 yes maxm, i will do in that way 10:12:42 thank you 10:12:47 so you can do (defmethod print-object ((object my-object-class) stream) ... print name in your own way) 10:12:54 <_6502__> vaaal: if you need a unique ID that never changes add one yourself to the class 10:13:42 God, if I had drugs 10:13:46 and this music 10:13:51 I could hack for days 10:13:54 what music, Lone_Wanderer? 10:14:00 as it is, the music will only last so long 10:14:03 deadmau5 10:14:12 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.46.7] has joined #lisp 10:14:14 their 4x4=12 album 10:14:31 if you're going to look it up, the best songs imho are Some Chords and Raise Your Weapon 10:14:40 yes, i'm going to look it up :) 10:15:46 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:55 In SBCL, if B inherits slots from A (which doesn't define readers in a defclass), and C inherits those slots from B, then C doesn't have access to those slots inherited from A unless A defines readers for them in a defclass. Why? 10:16:01 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:16:48 *jtza8* means to ask whether this is intentional, and what the reasons for those intentions would be. 10:17:01 Lone_Wanderer : if you want something nice, try birdy nam nam 10:17:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oHp5wKdxDg 10:17:41 kk 10:17:43 *Lone_Wanderer* loads 10:19:28 _6502__: no mine actually works 10:20:28 mmm 10:20:29 Is there a clean way of writing a function which either takes (list x y) or x y directly, so i can call the function with both a list of 2 variables or 2 arguments directly? 10:20:31 i like this deadmau 10:21:03 my only regret about this song, The_third_man, is that my speakers don't go up to 11. 10:21:48 do you guys know james blake? 10:22:17 vaaal, in only know about Jack Black and Francis Blake, sorry :] 10:23:03 <_6502__> posterdati: ? 10:23:12 :D It's really a have-to-listen. Also, i associate his music to lisp, i don't know why. 10:23:27 Lone_Wanderer, you may want to try infected mushroom also. Even if it's a more goa genre 10:23:34 Will do. 10:23:37 give him a chance -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVgEaDemxjc 10:24:01 vaaal, because you've been listening to it while you were coding :) ? 10:24:41 really likely :) 10:25:04 <_6502__> foodtime 10:25:06 i used to listen it when i was reading first lisp manual 10:25:21 (I'm not very fond of it though) 10:25:31 oook ^^ 10:25:57 vaaal: Good, but not good for me right now. 10:26:35 I need some beats that will see me walking down the street, all innocent and unaware, and jump out of their enormous black murdermobile and beat me half to death before squealing away into the night 10:26:53 anything less and I will fall immediately asleep ;) 10:26:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:18 heheheh 10:27:18 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 10:27:38 There is justice also : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU7bFpPJiww 10:28:10 woah 10:28:11 this is doing me good just now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh7YpPTwWP0 (God, this is suddenly the "let's link youtube videos" channel. I apologize, purists!) 10:28:21 to heavy for me, The_third_man 10:28:24 *to 10:28:26 *too ^^ 10:28:47 (actually, with the clip, we cannot really hear the music sometimes, but this clip is awesome ) 10:29:08 (i'm seeing it) 10:29:45 wow, there are a lot of gangsta. 10:29:49 ahh, hooligans 10:30:07 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 10:30:11 uniformed hooligans - do they have rank insignia too, or are they all equal? 10:30:17 it's not really hooligans 10:30:40 it's french deliquancy 10:30:45 i'm not so much into violence, but i would shoot them 10:30:48 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-181-202-144.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:55 rofl 10:30:59 (in a more exacerbated way) 10:31:06 "Yeah I'm not that violent, but I would totally murder those kids." 10:31:11 :D 10:31:35 what's the difference between a hooligan and a delinquent? 10:31:57 *_3b* wonders if it is time to remind people off-topic stuff belongs on #lispcafe 10:32:11 oh, I did'nt know about this chan 10:32:14 thanks :) 10:32:17 i dind't too 10:32:20 ohhhh, lispcafe! 10:32:41 _6502__: http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 10:33:31 j-f [jf@jamesfletcher.org] has joined #lisp 10:34:15 lakkris [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-237.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:03 -!- bandu [~furfag@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:02 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:36:06 _6502__: still writing a wiki 10:36:41 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.36.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:38:56 oudeis_ [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 10:39:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-181-202-144.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:45:34 heiz [~AndChat@host-40-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 10:46:52 -!- heiz [~AndChat@host-40-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:49:51 urandom__ [~user@p548A4E3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:58 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-228-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 10:56:01 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC8F45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:16 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC9A09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:00 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.205] has joined #lisp 11:11:14 SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 11:13:00 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 11:14:36 -!- SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:17:20 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.60.79] has joined #lisp 11:21:31 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:21:49 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:24:02 vaaal639 [~vaaal@host19-36-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:24:11 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.60.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:08 when in a package i export a symbol bound to a function that use another function, i've to export also the symbol bounds to that other function? 11:26:56 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:09 nope vaaal639 11:27:38 -!- Gertm [~Gertm@dD576D33F.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 11:28:30 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-1-108.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:30:11 -!- vaaal639 [~vaaal@host19-36-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:31 vaaal639: packages are only used at read time (unless you call find-symbol or intern or other package functions yourself). 11:30:45 abort 11:30:56 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C802.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:44 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:50 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:35:17 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 11:43:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:27 vaaal [~vaaal@host19-36-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:47:58 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 11:49:14 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-106-70.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:15 <_6502__> posterati: ";; create l-matrix for gay people" ?? 11:50:26 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-1-108.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:50:38 <_6502__> posterdati: ";; create l-matrix for gay people" ?? 11:52:21 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:29 The_third_man and pjb for the reply: thank you 11:57:13 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:48 _6502__: what??!?!? 11:58:10 <_6502__> Posterdati: it's in your source code 11:58:23 <_6502__> Posterdati: (e' nel tuo sorgente) 11:58:35 _6502__: oh my 11:59:07 Come il raggio di sol. 11:59:38 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:27 _6502__: which file? 12:00:35 vaaal: all the symbols are equally accessible, whatever the setting of *package* be: You can always read a symbol by prefixing its name with its package name and "::": package::symbol 12:01:13 <_6502__> Posterdati: just a sec... I've already deleted everything, let me checkout again 12:01:15 vaaal: "exporting" symbols from a package is only some kind of documentation, to tell the user of the package that those are the symbol that are documented, and that he may use. 12:02:33 _6502__: ok? 12:03:29 _6502__: it was a joke for our coworker 12:03:34 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:03:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:04:27 zero7 [~zero7@78.100.197.179] has joined #lisp 12:04:29 _6502__: I put last version 12:04:44 _6502__: 0.2.5 12:05:20 <_6502__> Posterdati: it was an older version, not there anymore seems 12:05:46 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 12:06:24 <_6502__> Posterdati: I tought it was part of the risk of having undergrads working at that for free 12:06:46 _6502__: I liked Lisp, because I was able to write it just reading gigamonkey's PCL, 1 month 12:07:07 _6502__: no, surely I wrote that comment as a prank in respect our coworker 12:07:10 <_6502__> Posterdati: that's not lisp IMO ... it's C++ 12:07:30 <_6502__> Posterdati: C++ dressed up as lisp... but still C++ 12:07:32 _6502__: this coworker has nothing to do with the project :) 12:07:41 _6502__: how come? 12:07:49 _6502__: by using classes? 12:08:33 lol 12:09:19 _6502__: we use kst to visualize data 12:10:07 <_6502__> it's in circuit-solver-18 12:10:18 _6502__: forget it, an old version 12:10:32 <_6502__> and 20 12:10:46 removed now 12:12:28 <_6502__> Posterdati: is this a uni project? 12:12:58 _6502__: uni? 12:13:05 <_6502__> versity 12:13:19 a cooperation among me and a researcher 12:14:48 _6502__: why? 12:15:21 <_6502__> Posterdati: i was thinking about writing to their legal dept to see if they also find that joke so funny :-) 12:15:40 <_6502__> jk 12:16:04 _6502__: this is not #joke, #gay, #legaldepts. 12:16:11 _6502__: they haven't got any source there 12:16:31 _6502__: use /msg Posterdati 12:16:31 _6502__: lol 12:17:56 _6502__: is there anything wrong to write a function to create a matrix for gay people? 12:18:23 <_6502__> Posterdati: yes... especially if the code is that ugly 12:18:42 _6502__: lol, but it's working!!! 12:18:51 Posterdati: that would prevent normal people to use it. 12:19:09 pjb: maybe! But this is not the case 12:19:18 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:19:32 pjb: we're all a bit gays under our skin :) 12:19:39 No. 12:20:16 :( 12:20:33 anyway ugly doesn't mean non functioning 12:22:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:27 _6502__: did you write to university? 12:25:03 <_6502__> Posterdati: no... I'm gay and I need those matrices... 12:25:19 _6502__: no you can't have those 12:26:55 _6502__: some .net won't work with 0.2.5. 12:27:03 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-58-165-251-47.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:28:08 c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-145-254-250-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:02 <_6502__> Posterdati: I see... so "works" for you means that you found a few actual cases in which the result is what you think is correct? 12:29:27 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:29:28 _6502__: no 12:29:49 _6502__: no I compared 10 circuits to matlab equivalent 12:31:40 _6502__: and t real cases :) 12:31:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:32:41 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-145-254-250-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:34:58 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-16-103.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:36:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:37:40 _6502__: ? 12:38:41 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-58-165-251-47.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 12:42:00 cfy` [~cfy@125.123.23.228] has joined #lisp 12:42:38 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:43:02 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:43:07 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 12:43:08 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.23.228] has quit [Changing host] 12:43:08 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:43:48 _6502__: it actually could be used for study circuit breakers open on long power line feeding inductive or capacitive loads 12:43:54 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:45:03 <_6502__> Posterdati: and no solution to the xkcd problem... 12:45:50 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:54 _6502__: ?? 12:45:59 _6502__: which problem? 12:46:31 <_6502__> Posterdati: http://xkcd.com/356/ 12:47:42 _6502__: the infinite grid? 12:48:50 -!- nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:48:56 <_6502__> Posterdati: yeah... i was thinking about it and got almost ran over by a truck 12:49:08 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 12:49:08 lol 12:49:15 _6502__: this is a non problem 12:49:33 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:49:38 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 12:50:10 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:05 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.205] has joined #lisp 12:52:41 -!- vaaal [~vaaal@host19-36-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:21 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:33 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-221.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:57:06 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-221.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:13 -!- ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:01:37 -!- lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:03:03 -!- samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:03:22 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-16-103.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:03:41 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:03:50 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04:42 -!- koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:35 zomgbie [~jesus@chello213047090155.3.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:08:48 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:11:15 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:11:36 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:13:13 hi, how can I convert integer to/from bit array? 13:13:18 I'm using sbcl 13:14:03 Using logbitp 13:14:19 _6502__: is zeor 13:14:22 _6502__: is zero 13:14:32 zmyrgel: or ldb 13:15:25 zmyrgel: notice that in Lisp, integers have an infinite number of bits... So you will have to choose a range. 13:16:22 _6502__: try to write the Y matrix with 1 Ohm resistance R = 1 Ohm => Y = 1 S 13:16:43 pjb: ah, so no direct out-of-the-box solution available 13:16:51 _6502__: main diagonal of Y should be 4 13:17:16 zmyrgel: not in the COMMON-LISP package. 13:17:21 _6502__: then Z matrix is inverse(Y) = (1 / det(Y)) 13:17:25 _6502__: then Z matrix is inverse(Y) = (1 / det(Y)) * Y(a) 13:18:06 pjb: but some existing library? 13:18:28 <_6502__> Posterdati: google for "inifinite grid of resistors", and then double check your gay matrices 13:19:02 Perhaps, I don't know one. But since it's a one liner, I doubt anybody took care of packaging it in a library, documenting it, writing an asd, distributing it. Too much work. You wouldn't put in a library (+ (* a x) b) ? 13:19:57 ok, gotta do some reading then 13:20:55 _6502__: lol 13:21:12 (loop :for i :below (length bit-vector) :do (setf (aref bit-vector i) (ldb (byte 1 i) integer))) 13:22:13 _6502__: this is not same in xkcd 13:23:35 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 13:23:41 _6502__: http://stevensholland.com/challenge-problem-solution-from-jan-19th-2007/ 13:25:28 zmyrgel: most of the time, you can just as well directly manipulate the bits constituting the integer. 13:25:44 <_6502__> Posterdati: http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/2072/on-this-infinite-grid-of-resistors-whats-the-equivalent-resistance 13:26:38 pkhuong: well the bit-and doesn't seem to work with integers so I need to convert it to bit-array first 13:27:04 zmyrgel: no, but logand does. 13:27:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:42 pkhuong: ah, good to know 13:31:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello213047090155.3.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:23 lawful_evil [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:26 hi 13:31:31 anyone around? 13:31:42 I have an interesting little problem. 13:31:52 I couldnt figure out in tcl. 13:31:56 so wondering how in lisp 13:32:36 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 13:33:43 _6502__: :( 13:33:53 lawful_evil: there is always someone around. Just post your question and hopefully someone will reply within 72hrs. 13:34:21 I want to rank the top NBA scorers by efficiency per shot. 13:34:32 http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/bycategory?cat=Fielding&sort=25 stats are here 13:35:04 <_6502__> Posterdati: why the sad face? Your CL solver doesn't find the correct numbers using the growing network approximation? 13:35:04 I would compute points per game / sum of fg attempted + half ft attempted 13:35:13 Q: what do u use in CL to split with a delimiter ? 13:35:17 then I want to print name of player and efficiency per shot 13:35:21 ranked from bes tto worst 13:35:27 naiv: split-sequence 13:35:32 _6502__: what? 13:35:36 lawful_evil: ok. So write some code to grab the data, and then do that thing you wanted to do. 13:35:41 gratz 13:35:47 I have clisp 13:35:54 naiv: it's an external library 13:36:18 oh. 13:36:38 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:00 _6502__: I didn't try my prog on an unphysical problem 13:37:46 <_6502__> Posterdati: the solution is 4/pi - 0.5 ... someone actually found the correct number by using a SPICE simulation by using larger and larger networks... 13:38:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.50.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:38:30 <_6502__> Posterdati: ok... then assume that the network is two billions squares by two billions squares. Now this is a concrete problem... 13:39:46 _6502__: ok, then? 13:39:52 naiv: you might also check cl-ppcre, if you want perl-style regex-based splitting. 13:40:43 -!- dgiaimo [~dgiaimo@pool-96-237-60-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:50 naiv: http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre/#split 13:41:02 thanks 13:41:45 <_6502__> Posterdati: is your solver finding reasonable numbers? make a 100x100 resistors network, put some tension on the two nodes and check the current... is the total resistance close to 4/pi-0.5 ? 13:42:12 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:27 -!- gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-221.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:58 _6502__: I can't figure out why to do this? I think this is not the best test for prove a solver correctness 13:43:23 -!- lawful_evil [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:49 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:43:56 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:05 _6502__: I proved my solver against real circuits and matlab equivalent 13:45:27 _6502__: even etap and mtp 13:45:51 _6502__: and atp 13:47:41 <_6502__> Posterdati: you have some problem with basic logic. No test can prove a program correctness. A test can only prove that a program is incorrect. 13:48:07 _6502__: this is wrong. 13:48:23 _6502__: ok, it will be in 1e6 tests then 13:48:26 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-221.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:48:32 _6502__: There is no program that can prove correct ALL programs. (because it cannot say anything about itself). 13:48:49 _6502__: but there are programs that can prove correct some programs, even a very big number of programs. 13:49:16 <_6502__> pjb: i'm not talking about automated proofs. i'm just saying that passing a test doesn't prove a program is correct. failing a test proves it's incorrect. 13:49:25 ok 13:49:30 ok 13:49:37 then? 13:50:01 my program will fail, then? 13:50:58 it won't for know problem, like I already studied, this prove is usefulness in studying these problems 13:51:43 I don't want to solve every possible circuits 13:52:04 I hope it could solve some :) not all 13:54:00 <_6502__> posterdati: oh... i thought it was for CLASSES of circuits. It cannot solve a circuit built just with one ohm resistors and a fixed tension between two points? 13:54:49 _6502__: it is a general purpose progra, 13:55:13 _6502__: you enter a description about the network and it try to found all currents and all nodal voltages 13:55:20 _6502__: using the general method 13:56:30 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:57:32 <_6502__> posterdati: ok... the network is just a square net of one ohm resistors, say 100x100. There is a 1 Volt tension applied to two points. I want the current. How's possible this cannot be solved? 100 is too much? i don't understand 13:57:49 _6502__: you can 13:58:05 corni [~corni@brln-4dba5877.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 -!- corni [~corni@brln-4dba5877.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:05 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 13:58:12 _6502__: edit a proper network file to do that 13:59:10 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has left #lisp 14:02:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.46.7] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 14:02:25 _6502__: I'm writing a program to produce a network list with fixed pattern 14:02:45 dgiaimo [~dgiaimo@pool-96-237-60-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:25 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:04:39 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:05:34 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06:16 _6502__: you can enter the network description as sexp 14:10:41 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:04 The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:04 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:12:12 -!- The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:20 billstclai [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:13 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:52 _6502__: ? 14:14:36 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.7.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 14:15:59 <_6502__> Posterdati: I don't think this web client supports DCC send, and I already removed that checkout again anyway. Is it getting close to pi/4-0.5 ? 14:16:43 <_6502__> posterdati: 4/pi-0.5, sorry 14:18:40 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:00 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:20:56 -!- zero7 [~zero7@78.100.197.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:24:39 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:25:32 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 14:26:05 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:20 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 14:27:07 _6502__: I'm sending you a simple circuit just to see how write a network 14:27:27 _6502__: 100 x 100 resistor takes a bit long to write down :) 14:33:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:49 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.248.219] has joined #lisp 14:35:31 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:38:16 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:40:10 _6502__: :) 14:40:26 MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:33 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:41:54 that little exposure that I had to On Lisp already made me rethink a design in another language. I've known what closures basically are for quite a while, but I was hesitant to make much use of them, so I wasn't even considering them before 14:42:55 also, the poster from the ctm book (http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/paradigms.html) where it shows on the top left what all depends on closures left a big impression on me 14:44:15 it's like suddenly a door opened I can see so many interesting things that a worth to explore. and I'm only in chapter 5 of on lisp, there is more to come for sure 14:44:50 if you're reminded of something else in that regard that is just as worthwhile to explore, please let me know 14:45:38 alex` [~alex@p549B4E5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:00 hey alex` 14:46:10 are you alex plank? 14:46:25 oh never mind 14:46:31 no.. i am not alex plank 14:46:36 sorry wrong channel 14:47:24 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-16-103.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:16 Jeremy_ [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 drwh0 [~drwho@c-68-81-106-70.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 rfg_ [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:51:38 setmeaway2 [jnoos43@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 14:51:42 -!- Jeremy_ is now known as Guest61701 14:52:14 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:14 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:14 nicdev` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:14 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:15 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:52:16 -!- nicdev_ is now known as nicdev 14:52:17 -!- drwh0 [~drwho@c-68-81-106-70.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:52:51 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:52:51 -!- rfg_ is now known as rfg 14:54:12 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-106-70.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:12 -!- Organometallica [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:16 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:54:39 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:47 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-127-56.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:58 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:55 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:57:49 http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/ has been 503 for me for a few days. Has the official weblocks site moved? 14:59:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:48 Jeremy__ [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:10 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 15:00:20 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:01:54 -!- Jeremy__ [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:45 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:02:45 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:03:04 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:12 -!- Guest61701 [~Jeremy@host-8-174.ilcu3rd.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:04:58 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@66-188-168-128.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:52 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:18 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 15:11:41 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:20 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kuvujlbwecfunnxl] has joined #lisp 15:14:10 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:16:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 15:16:33 <_3b> is there no file-length for gray streams? 15:16:35 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:40 -!- alex` [~alex@p549B4E5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:16:46 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:44 nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:27 -!- julius2 [~julius@unaffiliated/julius2] has quit [Quit: This must be a mistake, I never quit IRC] 15:23:18 _3b: that's correct 15:24:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 <_3b> guess i'll just have to call file-position a bunch of times instead :/ 15:32:06 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 15:35:16 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:50 splineman [~splineman@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:56 emagdalenag [~splineman@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:24 -!- emagdalenag [~splineman@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:11 -!- splineman [~splineman@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:35 splineman [~splineman@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:57 emagdalena [~emagdalen@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 -!- emagdalena [~emagdalen@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:27 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:41:30 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:42:08 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:58 *_3b* wonders if the defknown for FILE-POSITION in sbcl is overly strict 15:43:22 <_3b> clhs says it returns "true" or "false" not T or NIL 15:44:03 <_3b> (aside from the obvious non-negative integer cases) 15:44:41 _3b: clhs is irrelevant here. SBCL's implementation conforms to the spec, and you get to conform to SBCL's extension of the spec ;) 15:44:56 <_3b> pkhuong: even with gray-streams? 15:45:17 gray streams aren't in the clhs. 15:45:30 <_3b> true 15:45:58 <_3b> and i guess gray-streams don't include file-position anyway :/ 15:46:38 <_3b> is that specified anywhere in sbcl docs, so trivial-gray-streams should be modified? 15:47:56 *_3b* supposes it is easy enough to fix there if so, does that for now as a workaraound anyway 15:48:06 I've never even used it. 15:48:52 <_3b> yeah, seems to be pretty uncommon, given how slowly support for setting file-position has been added to trivial-gray-streams 15:50:14 *_3b* just needed a replacement for file-length in a lib expecting to be used on real files, seeking to the end and back seems to be working 15:50:27 file-length should work on the underlying file stream, if there is one. 15:50:41 <_3b> there isn't one in this case 15:51:04 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:51:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 15:54:42 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:07 tehwalrus [5b8701a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.135.1.162] has joined #lisp 15:56:26 Hrm, I thought some of the implementations had a #'stream-file-length, but maybe not. 15:56:33 <_3b> doesn't seem to be documented that it can only return T or an unsigned-byte for a successful seek 15:56:39 <_3b> (in sb-gray docs that is) 15:58:49 pnathan [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 hi all. I'm having issues running a simple script, getting this error: http://pastebin.com/Ns5x8af3 (there manifestly isn't an eof at character zero, as I see text when I open the file.) 15:59:14 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has joined #lisp 15:59:16 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-107-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:48 <_3b> pinterface: maybe confusing it with file-string-length ? 16:00:18 That or I'm confusing it with the limited support for gray stream file-position. 16:00:53 tehwalrus, "file {path}/1.lisp", are you giving compile-file the right filename/path 16:01:37 yup, I just anonymised the file path. the full file path from / is displayed there correctly. 16:02:30 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-25-43.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:03:13 <_3b> unclosed parens or something maybe? 16:03:29 Unclosed parens gives a very similar error. 16:05:06 I am fail, thanks _3b djuber and pnathan . noob restructuring code half way through, forgot to check I had enough )s at the end. cheers :) 16:05:29 *_3b* votes for letting paredit deal with that sort of thing 16:07:10 _3b: hmm, and that was the one bit of the installation walkthrough I skipped. clearly I have paid for my foolishness.... 16:08:10 emagdalenag [~emagdalen@3.Red-83-56-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:37 compile-file gives me a different error, but I get that error at character 0 when I (load file) with unmatched parens 16:09:46 -!- splineman [~splineman@155.Red-88-21-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:12:40 -!- Ashiel [~Ashiel@c-69-245-145-117.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:15 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:10 sellout [~Adium@93-143-32-232.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:14:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:19:58 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:22:19 -!- nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:28:56 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-137-66-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:27 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:33:28 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:34:37 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-25-43.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:37:28 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:12 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-25-43.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:42:31 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:49 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:50:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:52:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:57:57 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-25-43.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:59:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:05:12 Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.29.255.27] has joined #lisp 17:05:49 Ok so I updated my QL and Upgraded to SBCL 1.0.50 on Windows 17:06:21 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:31 Oh nvm lol 17:06:50 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-156-153.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:06:50 Had this fatal error problem and now it's gone 17:07:49 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-12-231.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:35 brandwe [~brandon@c-71-227-176-38.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:10 -!- sellout [~Adium@93-143-32-232.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:18 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:39 H4ns```: would cooperative multi-threading (which you can drive with OS threads) be useful for hunchentoot? 17:11:13 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-12-231.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:51 sellout [~Adium@93-143-32-232.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:13:25 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:05 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@93-143-32-232.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:21 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:21 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:18:21 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 17:20:32 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:04 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-156-153.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:21:05 -!- tehwalrus [5b8701a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.135.1.162] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:06 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:29:26 pnq [~nick@ACA25D31.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:42 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:32:43 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:43 Q: is it possible to have a stack overflow with only 1 or 2MB of data ? (ulimit says I'm unlimited) 17:34:02 naiv: sbcl? 17:34:21 -!- brandwe [~brandon@c-71-227-176-38.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:34:30 naiv: if you have threads, yes. 17:34:51 2 MB is typical a limit of stack space for threads. 17:35:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:35:58 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:01 I'm not using threads AFAIK, I'm reading recursively a dictionnary file into a list (1.1MB) 17:37:02 might be a good idea not to do it recursively, or tail-recursively if you must. 17:37:22 -!- Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.29.255.27] has quit [Quit: If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space] 17:37:57 CL has nice iteration constructs. 17:38:18 naiv: check if you aren't running threads implicitly... like, for example, with SBCL and SLIME 17:39:03 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 -!- alama is now known as alama_busy 17:39:47 ok thx, I need to rewrite smth before testing, bbl 17:41:22 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:43:10 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-152-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 i need to store related pieces of information 17:44:42 and i'm wondering if lists are best for this 17:44:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:45:01 what's smth? 17:45:13 That would depend on how you get the data and what you're doing with it. 17:45:19 X-Scale [email@89.180.143.4] has joined #lisp 17:45:23 specifically filename, dependency filenames, date 17:45:43 dependencies, sounds like a DAG. 17:45:48 i'm sortin through the filenames so that they appear in an order that relates to their dependencies 17:46:03 what is a DAG? 17:46:08 fatblueduck: or even a graph, since people are known to set up circular dependencies. 17:46:19 Directed Acyclic Graph. 17:46:25 ok 17:46:57 fatblueduck: I recommend you go through some book on algorithms and datastructures... 17:47:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:31 (I found "Algorithm Design Manual" to be good one, with quite accessible content) 17:47:53 i recently bought that book 17:48:08 i will use it 17:48:26 I bought a lot of book, but I didn't read them all. It seems more important to read the books than just buy them. 17:48:52 fatblueduck: You'll be able to ask better questions, and possibly answer yourself, after that :) 17:49:27 ok thank you 17:50:57 <_6502__> isn't it more uniform if (/ n) is the same as (/ 1 n)? it's this way for #'- ... 17:51:25 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:52:50 <_6502__> oh, wait... it's already this way :-D 17:53:30 <_6502__> for some reason i thought it was an error in CL to compute (/ x) 17:53:59 <_6502__> time for a pause... 17:55:10 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:58:47 -!- setmeaway2 [jnoos43@183.106.96.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:59:08 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:17 alex` [~alex@p549B3DFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:54 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:11:42 ikki [~ikki@189.139.132.82] has joined #lisp 18:18:40 -!- drrho [~rho@chello213047112079.11.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:34 -!- alama_busy is now known as alama 18:24:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:25 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-znhwycnamcnoppiz] has joined #lisp 18:26:44 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 18:27:10 lucca [~lucca@66.220.1.33] has joined #lisp 18:27:35 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:27:36 -!- lucca is now known as Guest20753 18:28:03 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:03 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:28:44 carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.148] has joined #lisp 18:32:09 -!- alex` [~alex@p549B3DFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 18:36:13 I think just about every implementation might have double-rounding issues with floating-point truncate. 18:36:41 -!- billstclai [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:36:41 -!- billstclair [billstclai@clozure-21ECE57F.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:37:30 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:44 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:23 Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.26.237.150] has joined #lisp 18:43:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:02 I downloaded The Tools.zip file from the Google ai contest, I think there's no support for CL 18:45:01 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 18:45:17 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 18:45:42 alex` [~alex@p549B3DFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:30 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:52:23 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:45 Mustansir [~Mustansir@cpe-76-169-66-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:26 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-152-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:06:35 HG` [~HG@p5DC057A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:03 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 19:12:09 SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 -!- SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:17:35 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:17:47 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:16 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:21:52 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:23:40 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:40 -!- Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.26.237.150] has left #lisp 19:31:51 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.110] has joined #lisp 19:31:58 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:10 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 19:33:44 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:41:41 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:34 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:43:51 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:46:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:46:33 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:48:55 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 19:50:17 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:31 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 19:56:06 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:56:53 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:35 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-137-66-17.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:57:39 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:54 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 19:58:50 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:36 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02:49 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:58 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_afk 20:07:22 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 20:10:36 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:17:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-104-152.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:17:32 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c23f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:01 hi 20:19:51 -!- alex` [~alex@p549B3DFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:56 zeugma [c6d1287c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.209.40.124] has joined #lisp 20:23:25 drake01 [~drake01@115.246.193.125] has joined #lisp 20:23:54 i'm looking for a place to get started with live coding in common lisp. are there any portable audio synthesis libraries out there that I should know about? 20:24:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:24:32 http://cliki.net/Music 20:24:51 heiz [~AndChat@host-40-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 20:25:15 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-162-221.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:25 ah - i was looking at the /audio section 20:25:36 -!- heiz [~AndChat@host-40-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:49 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:20 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:42 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:18 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:29 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:37 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:32:43 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:35:18 -!- zeugma [c6d1287c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.209.40.124] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:37:58 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 20:38:11 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:01 BrokenCog [~bc@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:58 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #lisp 20:45:46 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:10 ph1234k [~ph1234k@unaffiliated/ph1234k] has joined #lisp 20:46:30 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:51 -!- SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has left #lisp 20:47:30 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has joined #lisp 20:48:26 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:35 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:37 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.60.34] has joined #lisp 20:56:41 hi 20:58:07 in a package i've write a function with a (case ..) inside. The keys are write as keyword. When i call the function from cl-user with a symbol [like (call-function 'try)] i got an errore 20:58:29 probably this errore is due to the case. If i call the function this way (call-function :try) it works. But i can't understand why 20:58:29 vaaal: paste code 20:58:35 ok 20:58:39 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:44 wait... 20:58:51 But anyway, keywords and non-keyword symbols are different objects 20:59:03 mm 20:59:23 so i can try to change the key of (case..) to symbols? 20:59:41 <_3b> keywords are symbols 21:00:01 mmm 21:00:02 right 21:01:11 (wait for the code..) 21:02:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123858 21:03:25 it enter into the case and doens't find a match 21:03:31 (eq 'foo :foo) 21:03:34 so want to make-instance 'nil 21:04:44 vaaal: :hidden is not the same thing as 'hidden. 21:05:39 if i change the case 21:05:59 with key without : , it give me the same error.. 21:06:19 maybe because the symbol are in a different package? 21:06:58 vaaal: (list (symbol-package ':foo) (symbol-package 'foo)) 21:07:02 I don't believe you. 21:07:16 mm 21:07:19 vaaal: more precisely, because they ARE different. 21:07:30 oh, wait, you replaced the symbols in the case statement. 21:07:34 (unintern 'foo) (import ':foo) (eql ':foo 'foo) 21:07:37 yeah, package issues. 21:07:41 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC057A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:08:04 yep 21:08:09 so how i should make? :-\ 21:08:15 vaaal: a key without : doesn't exist. Either the symbol is in the KEYWORD package or it is not. It doesn't matter if you write it as keyword:foo :foo or just foo (after having imported it). 21:08:23 vaaal: why do you want to use keywords? 21:08:33 mmm i don't want to use keywords. 21:08:38 Then don't! 21:08:51 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:04 (However, you might want to use keywords, they have some nice properties. But if you don't know why, there's no point). 21:09:08 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:09:13 well 21:09:14 pjb 21:09:32 when I sayd "key" i refer to the key of the case 21:09:43 (case A (key1 event1)) <-this 21:09:56 that's ok. keys of CASE don't need to be keywords. 21:10:24 yes, now the key in the case in my function aren't keywords anymore 21:10:30 but i get the same errore .-\ 21:10:31 :-\ 21:10:33 Good. SO what's the problem? 21:11:04 same error.. 21:11:07 vaaal: perhaps you want to use ECASE instead of CASE. 21:11:40 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:41 yes, i will try 21:11:51 Notice also that you should avoid setf. 21:12:48 i really don't know how to do withouth setf in that case :-\ 21:13:14 *sykopomp* wonders how many of his lisp implementations will still work after upgrading to linux3.0 21:13:22 vaaal: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123858#1 21:13:41 sykopomp: if you're on SBCL, you should build from HEAD first. 21:13:54 pjb, pretty confusing, don't you think? 21:14:00 vaaal: http://paste.lisp.org/+2NKI/2 21:14:01 What's confusing? 21:14:17 sykopomp: I'm more worried about 10.7 (: 21:14:56 is that an OSX version? :) 21:15:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123859 <-with ecase i've this error 21:15:26 it's clearly a package error. 21:16:07 Then why don't you call (create-layer 'NEURAL-NETWORK::INPUT) ??? 21:16:21 there ins't a better way? 21:16:30 i don't want the user has to call in that complicate way 21:17:06 (with (create-layer 'NEURAL-NETWORK:INPUT) it works of course) 21:17:07 vaaal: export the symbol from your package. 21:17:08 The best way would be to use keywords. The second best way is to export the symbol that are part of your public API. In the last resort, you could import the symbols you don't want to write qualified. 21:17:25 uhm 21:17:31 so 21:17:38 i've forgot to export 'hidden? :-| 21:18:21 I find it plausible that you should use keywords here. 21:18:28 mmm 21:18:48 serichsen, if i use keyword the user has to call the function this way? -> (create-layer :hidden)? 21:19:23 No, he could call it this way: (create-layer keyword:hidden) 21:19:32 Or this way: (create-layer 'keyword:hidden) 21:19:41 well, still doesn't good. 21:19:44 Or this way: (create-layer (intern "HIDDEN" "KEYWORD")) 21:19:48 why not? 21:19:54 But (create-layer :hidden) is also an option. 21:19:56 to much effort for a casual user 21:19:57 Why do you care how your function is called? 21:20:11 i want to make it simple, isn't this a good thing? 21:20:18 You should only be concerned by the objects your function expects. 21:20:22 Yes it is. 21:20:44 I think that it would be idiomatic to make this a keyword argument, so that the user calls it as (create-layer :type :hidden). 21:21:02 mmm 21:21:18 can you explain to me why this is better then export 3 more symbols? 21:21:36 (this seems sarcastic, is not). 21:21:54 The symbols are not bound to anything. 21:22:02 so? 21:22:04 They just indicate some case. 21:22:06 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:15 So that you don't have to export them, so that you don't "pollute namespace" (ie. generate gratuituous symbols). 21:22:30 mm 21:22:38 well 21:22:43 ok. 21:22:48 you convinced me. 21:23:29 If you had named your classes input output and hidden, you could have exported the class name and expected a neuron class name instead of a keyword. 21:23:41 This would have allowed the user to doefine neuron subclasses and pass that... 21:25:01 i've another question that is into my mind for weeks. Can I make a &key required? 21:25:37 (assert key) 21:25:51 woah. 21:26:06 well, thank you pjb and thank you serichsen 21:26:13 (defun foo (&key (test (error "~S must be provided" :test)) ...) 21:26:54 really good idea. 21:27:43 (assert key) has downside that ":key nil" isn't allowed anymore. 21:28:26 It has the upside that (... :key nil) and not providing :key at all behave the same. 21:28:35 -!- BrokenCog [~bc@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:29:14 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:57 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 -!- drake01 [~drake01@115.246.193.125] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:33:32 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:00 i'm having trouble defining a package whose name is generated programmatically 21:35:36 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-1-108.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:36:06 dto: how ? 21:36:13 dto: MAKE-PACKAGE? 21:36:27 yeah that makes sense. i was trying to do it with defpackage 21:36:39 then you probably need EVAL 21:36:44 around the defpackage 21:37:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-199.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:41:04 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c23f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:14 ehu: that still didn't seem to work. but it's ugly, anyway. 21:41:20 ehu: thanks for your help 21:41:44 ehu: :) i sometimes have the oddest questions in here. however, the manuals are so good that i often don't need the channel ! 21:42:47 no problem. 21:43:19 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:06 dto: what didn't work ? 21:45:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:41 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:38 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 21:49:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:33 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:50:51 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:52:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-104-152.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:37 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.60.34] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 21:58:30 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:07:20 adu [~ajr@64.134.99.85] has joined #lisp 22:09:23 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 22:09:23 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 22:15:38 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:16:20 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:10 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:00 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:45 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-128.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:13 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:29:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25D31.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:30:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:15 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:35:46 -!- blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:35:46 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:37:25 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:37:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 22:38:29 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:54 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:30 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:46 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:44:36 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:44:40 cfy [~cfy@125.123.23.228] has joined #lisp 22:44:47 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.23.228] has quit [Changing host] 22:44:47 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 22:45:16 blb [~blb@c-24-11-236-117.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:23 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.99.85] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:54:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:32 fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:55 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:59:17 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:01:28 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:39 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-76-35.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:07:21 -!- bleakgadfly [51a6aba8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.166.171.168] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:08:26 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:51 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:12:03 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:22 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-1-108.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:12:56 Q: is there something like an inline description of functions (CL) ? 23:13:33 what would that do? 23:15:35 something like the help(foofn) in python 23:16:20 What does that do? 23:16:58 (documentation 'foo 'function) ? 23:18:49 I use C-c C-d h in slime 23:21:21 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:22:23 naiv: Yes, there are docstrings. 23:22:41 omg pkhuong, this command wants to start firefox 23:23:27 fe[nl]ix: for example (documentation 'subseq 'function) ? it returns nil 23:23:51 naiv: It can be bound to any object, not only a function: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 23:23:52 There's little point in replicating the documentation that's already present in the CLHS. 23:24:12 naiv: it does here 23:25:42 naiv: what Lisp are you using? 23:26:13 clisp 23:28:29 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:18 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:39 naiv: clisp has tendency to link to HTML pages on the net when trying to get documentaton about some CL symbol 23:32:28 SBCL and CCL don't, but thy might have various levels of coverage regarding inline documentation 23:32:47 of course, you can use it freely in your own code 23:33:56 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [] 23:35:21 pkhuong: inline documentation is important. If I don't have a internet connexion, I can't reach online doc. And btw this CLHS doc even doesn't have a search module or a function bar. This is a pity. 23:35:35 you can take an offline copy of the CLHS 23:35:47 It's just a bunch of html pages. 23:36:39 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:36:59 sure 23:37:27 I mostly exploit indices or the structure of the document to find things (or APROPOS). Otherwise, l1sp.org offers a simple way to search it and other documents. I believe there's even a bookmarklet for it. 23:39:21 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:14 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.148] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:42:21 Very nice site thx. But please concede that you once used « man » and that (help 'subseq) wouldn't be pointless. 23:43:29 anyone here running sbcl on 64bit arch linux? 23:43:33 <_6502__> should labels hide a macro? 23:44:08 naiv: I use man. I don't see an issue with punting to the specification to document standard functions. 23:44:19 hakkum: ask your question. 23:45:09 well arch linux just did a kernel upgrade, and when I try running sbcl, i get a seg fault 23:45:49 any one else experience this? 23:46:09 foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.71.11] has joined #lisp 23:46:16 hakkum: ah. 3.0 bug. It's fixed in HEAD; You can grab a binary from 23:46:56 pnq [~nick@AC840AC1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:43 pkhuong: ha thanks for that.. i was literally just on that page, didn't read through it before asking on here, thanks 23:47:55 naiv: hyperspec.el contains symbol index of CLHS 23:48:59 naiv: it suffices. You can always use some full-text search engine on an offline copy too 23:49:07 corni [~corni@brln-4dba7274.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:07 -!- corni [~corni@brln-4dba7274.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:49:07 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 23:51:03 <_6502__> yes it should 23:51:08 hmm I see, M-x hyperspec-lookup may help, like pk's C-c C-d h 23:51:21 <_6502__> sleeptime for me... l8r 23:51:44 -!- _6502__ [5e24eadb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.234.219] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:53:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:11 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:36 -!- pnq [~nick@AC840AC1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:35 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:38 pnq [~nick@AC840AC1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:36 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.93.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]