00:00:43 sral: There's one for Alpha, I think. 00:02:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:03:53 *Xach* likes writing, using Lisp programs in a modern environment 00:03:56 ikki [~ikki@189.247.103.60] has joined #lisp 00:06:35 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:08:52 Phillip [~Phillip@c-75-72-88-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:53 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:41 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:33 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:54 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.47] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:22:04 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:51 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:25 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 00:25:56 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.86] has joined #lisp 00:27:47 is it possible to patch some function in a third party asdf system without modifying it's source? 00:28:07 yes 00:28:12 just redefine it 00:28:20 in a proper package 00:28:23 well 00:28:48 that will work? 00:29:25 I have a specific situation though 00:29:52 brrr, packages and definitions 00:29:54 it's a cffi grovel. it's executed like this in asdf: (cl:eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute) (asdf:load-system :cffi-grovel)) 00:30:31 illic sunt leones 00:30:48 something tells me that just redefining the function grovel uses won't work? or am I wrong 00:33:48 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:21 yes I can't see how it would possibly work. I'd have to put (in-package #:cffi-grovel) in a file loaded before grovel, but that package does not even exist at that poin 00:36:33 t 00:38:19 shaggy-, why can't you just redefine the function? 00:38:25 is it used in macroexpansion or something? 00:39:44 it's a non-exported function used internally 00:39:53 is there a way to get all the accessors from a clos instance? 00:40:20 shaggy-, you can use in-package 00:40:31 and redefine unexported functions just the same 00:40:35 it's lisp, not some kind of Java 00:41:26 tempire: that doesn't really make sense. accessors are just generic functions. 00:41:35 shaggy-: You mean that the function you want to patch is executed during loading? 00:42:10 Bike yes, was looking for the right words to explain that 00:42:49 tempire: using the mop it's however possible to obtain the list of slots from a clos class 00:44:04 is it still possible to patch the function somehow, or do I have to edit grovel's source? 00:45:07 shaggy-: what do you want do edit and why? 00:45:54 native-namestring function is broken on ccl on windows. it does not put quotes around the path 00:46:01 tempire: and of course the slots may be them be accessed without accessor functions of course, using slot-value 00:46:02 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:06 s/them/then/ 00:46:50 actually you can also obtain the accessor function names from the mop too if I remember 00:46:52 it works fine on clisp, but not on ccl 00:48:05 shaggy-: ok, where is it called from, at load-time? 00:49:12 process-grovel-file and cc-compile-and-link 00:49:28 that's not called when grovel is loaded. 00:49:44 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:50:25 I see. so just redefining the function would work? 00:50:39 tempire: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123703 00:51:19 shaggy-: wait, so you haven't tried it yet? 00:51:32 clos:* are the mop functions, I presume? 00:52:16 phadthai: thanks 00:52:31 tempire: yes, I'm not sure how portable that is among implementations though, MOP is not part of the ANSI standard 00:52:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:54 closer-mop helps with that. 00:52:56 pkhuong no I was sure it wouldn't work. let me try 00:53:01 but various implementations support it, perhaps with interface variants although the inspiration was the AMOP book 00:53:31 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:54:00 tempire: then of course class-of may be used to determine the class of an arbitrary object 00:54:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.103.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:22 tempire: you're welcome 00:54:51 tempire: as pkhuong suggested also check closer-mop, intended to be portable among implementations 00:59:17 -!- fgump [~fgump__@openvpn-124-140.inf.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:52 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:02:32 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-22.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:36 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:04:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:06:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Client Quit] 01:06:38 it worked nicely 01:07:48 feel like such a newbie now, I had no idea you can just redefine functions from third party libs like that 01:09:37 CL is a very stateful language. Macros like DEFUN simply mutate the function binding in the current image. 01:12:56 pkhuong, how could it be otherwise? 01:13:17 we can't create a new universe each time EVAL or LOAD or COMPILE is called 01:13:23 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:13:32 it would be expensive. the board of directors wouldn't approve. 01:14:42 PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has joined #lisp 01:14:49 -!- PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has left #lisp 01:15:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A20F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:36 acelent: there's no debug level 4. Optimization levels are symbolic, 0, 1, 2 and 3 only. 01:15:50 it makes sense that it works, I just didn't think it wouldn't be as easy. I come from languages where redefining a function in a third party lib requires modifying and recompiling the original source 01:16:02 weirdo: it could be more like a bunch of letrec. 01:16:43 pkhuong, i implement free-form (define ...) forms as a bunch of letrec 01:17:15 but toplevel define forms necessarily have to mutate the lexenv 01:17:20 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-192-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:37 it's probably like you said in ocaml? 01:17:42 or haskell, for that matter 01:17:50 weirdo: look at how lispme does it. 01:18:40 tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:18:44 yeah, ocamltop pretty much works that way too. Then again, the semantics of ocaml don't more-or-less mimic what happens when a user types at the REPL. 01:19:30 on other note, i got yelled at for implementing CL-like macros in my Scheme 01:22:05 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:24:44 pnq [~nick@ACA22C35.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:02 levi` [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:39 -!- levi` is now known as levi 01:30:03 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:31:06 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:40:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: DRAMATIC NOOOOOOOOO] 01:54:46 Good morning everyone! 01:56:47 fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:02 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925097352.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:00:36 Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 02:01:22 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:02:39 -!- sbalousek [~sbalouse@ip174-67-214-212.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:04:35 sbalousek [~sbalouse@ip174-67-214-212.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:32 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.126.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:07:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:20 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:09:37 beach: good evening 02:12:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C7AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:11 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C082.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:32 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:15:55 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:20:52 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:30:22 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:35:16 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:35:23 fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:35 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:40:57 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 02:45:02 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:24 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:10 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:49:56 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:51:48 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:51:54 fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:15 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 02:56:45 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:29 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@231.125.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:32 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:05:44 El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-76-89.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:59 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:08:26 Mailman day again! 03:09:04 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 03:12:37 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:01 oudeis [~oudeis@109.64.215.151] has joined #lisp 03:15:18 Penten`` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 03:16:01 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-76-89.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #lisp 03:16:08 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:22 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:18:10 -!- Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:20:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xfjjjtzsvvwnhdgk] has joined #lisp 03:22:11 -!- sral [cfed80fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.237.128.254] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:23:31 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 03:25:23 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:41 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:27:23 tetsuharu [~halliburt@pool-173-78-27-149.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:29 howdy, fellas! 03:29:01 I'm following a Lisp tutorial and I've been doing pretty well with the examples, but I still don't think I understand the real use of the language yet 03:29:16 I'm using Common Lisp and going off this tutorial https://gist.github.com/1117525 03:29:18 er 03:29:22 http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/310/pwfong/Lisp/1/tutorial1.html 03:29:44 this tutorial, they had me implement my own recursive 'butlast' operator that returns all but the last cons from a list 03:29:51 my code is here: https://gist.github.com/1117525 03:30:15 i've seen a lot of different operators being used everywhere in community code, so I have no idea if I'm doing it right' 03:30:26 does my solution make sense at all? or is there a better way to solve it with just these operators? 03:31:36 Does it work? 03:31:45 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has joined #lisp 03:31:55 yes 03:32:22 There are a few improvements possible. 03:32:27 oh, god, i should not be using two rest's, and just return nil instead of returning a cons (first L) again 03:32:38 Exactly. 03:32:52 alright lemme add that change then hopefully you can suggest more improvements 03:32:52 Then, you have some stylistic improvements. 03:33:02 Never use _ in names. Use - 03:33:18 is there a reason? 03:33:18 Put a space before the first ( in a group, like before (L) 03:33:29 Never put ) or ( by itself on a line. 03:33:42 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:33:44 Then, call your paremeter list instead of L 03:33:45 you are breaking every coding convention I've ever learned! :p 03:34:00 No, you are breaking most Lisp coding conventsions. 03:34:03 conventions. 03:34:23 And use '() for the empty list instead of nil. 03:34:36 It's the same thing, but is more explicit. 03:34:37 or just () 03:34:56 where is minion when i need him? 03:35:16 *weirdo* tells tetsuharu about PCL by himself 03:35:25 tetsuharu, check out http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 03:35:40 weirdo: No, not just (). 03:35:49 damn, i always used () 03:35:58 why not? 03:36:02 weirdo: () is just used in code to indicate empty lists of some sort. 03:36:05 Not as data. 03:36:31 shaggy-: There is no point in asking "why" about conventions that are chosen arbitrarily. 03:36:56 It's just something that people agree upon in order to avoid confusing others who share the same conventions. 03:37:32 Why do we say "tooth brush" and "dental floss" rather than "dental brush" and "tooth floss". No reason. Just a convention. 03:37:55 sbcl hackers, can you tell me which type inference scheme use for my own compiler? 03:38:21 beach ok, thought it was more than just a convention 03:38:21 what is "PCL"? 03:38:36 Practical Common Lisp, book linked above 03:38:41 ohh 03:38:57 I avoided it at first, because it was hostd at a domain called 'gigamonkeys' 03:39:05 heh 03:39:28 :) 03:39:32 gigamonkey would be sad 03:40:10 hah 03:40:56 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.64.215.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:02 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-97-15.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-156.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:15 about the only convention listed above that I follow is - as a word separated and grouping all the closed parenthesis on last line. anyone have a link to all the conventions handy? 03:42:16 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:56 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:09 hmm I remember reading some lisp style guide from riastradth I think, it might have been for scheme though possibly 03:43:26 i think you misspelled his nickname 03:43:26 :) 03:43:30 probably :) 03:44:26 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 03:44:58 shaggy-: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 03:45:37 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-97-15.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:45:48 cheers 03:46:01 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-97-15.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:16 so the nickname is Riastradh and I _did_ misspell it 03:47:26 shaggy-: http://norvig.com/luv-slides.ps might have some. 03:47:26 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.93] has joined #lisp 03:47:51 shaggy-: But it has much more and much more profound style recommendations. 03:49:11 thanks, bookmarked 03:50:17 If I interact with CCL on a terminal (normally I use SLIME), arrows key print things such as: ^[[D^[[A. How to configure CCL so that the REPL is more pleasant to work with? 03:50:31 leo2007, use SLIME 03:50:40 weirdo: I do. 03:50:47 can CCL optionally use readline? It'd be slightly less tedious 03:51:07 i know SBCL and ACL can 03:51:12 yeah. Sometimes I just want to fire ccl in the terminal for quick checking. 03:51:33 make a emacs shell script that launches slime :) 03:51:33 fire up* 03:51:48 weirdo: that's one way ;) 03:51:50 yes that's what I often end up doing, using a shell in an emacs buffer 03:52:21 when I don't want slime for a specific image that is 03:53:17 beach: that looks like a good read; thanks for the link 03:54:12 leo2007: rlwrap ccl 03:55:09 wow somehow I didn't yet know about rlwrap 03:55:11 nice 03:55:37 phadthai: Sure. It is excellent in fact. 03:56:47 beach: which link? 03:56:57 a line-edit mode toggle for screen or tmux would also be a nice feature 03:57:44 leo2007: shaggy-: http://norvig.com/luv-slides.ps might have some. 03:58:09 phadthai: ahh, nice, I've read that already. 04:04:12 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:20 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:18 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 04:07:18 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:51 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 04:07:58 -!- csdwifi [~csdwifi@76.177.215.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:10:02 -!- ahriman` [~ahriman@109.123.146.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:36 csdwifi [~csdwifi@CPE-76-177-215-56.natcky.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:39 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:43 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:14:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 04:14:57 any idea how clisp got the nice line editing support in its REPL? 04:16:26 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:17:39 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180098105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:18:15 leo2007: it is GPL. 04:18:39 leo2007: GPL software are better, they can use better libraries, than MIT or BSD software. 04:18:43 ok, by linking to readline. 04:18:51 RLWRAP 04:19:06 it has a readline.o 04:25:12 BSD libedit has a readline compatible interface :) 04:26:14 maintainers of non-GPL software will often refuse to link projects against readline by default, of course 04:29:54 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:51 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:51 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:30:51 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 04:34:04 I was making an array of elements of type (unsigned-byte 6), expecting this to be mapped to (unsigned-byte 8), the size of a byte. But I get (unsigned-byte 7), what gives? How is such a thing even mapped in memory :o.Do 8 of these fit in 7 bytes? 04:34:19 On sbcl of course 04:34:43 Nothing terribly important, just find it odd and strange. 04:38:11 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:39:24 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:39:57 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:40:10 phadthai: do you mean linedit? it does not work on CCL. 04:40:12 literal: I'd also have expected it to be unsigned-byte 8, I agree that's odd 04:40:22 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: sleep] 04:40:45 leo2007: libedit, a library; but that CCL can link against readline or libedit is another matter, no idea if it supports that 04:41:25 s/literal/lisper/ :) 04:42:15 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:42:56 phadthai: there is a common lisp pkg linedit, which seems very powerful. 04:43:08 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:43:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-97-15.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 04:43:45 oh, then I guess that pre-loading a small repl based around it would be decent 04:44:15 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:04 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-97-15.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:39 It needs some fixing for CCL. 04:50:09 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-50-15.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:07 pnq1 [~nick@AC81F2B3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:22 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22C35.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:52:22 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 04:54:35 HG` [~HG@p5DC05082.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:50 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:58:44 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-119-240.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:00:59 Regardless I'm amazed at how much better sbcl is with types then ccl. ^-^. 05:07:00 <_3b> well, it has to be doing /something/ with all that extra compilation time :) 05:08:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 05:09:04 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-texpmoohyiicuxao] has joined #lisp 05:09:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-texpmoohyiicuxao] has quit [Changing host] 05:09:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:09:09 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 05:09:33 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:41 3b honestly with the small bits of code I've been messing with I have not noticed! Though I do keep getting distracted by following M-. around the various internals of sbcl :D 05:11:23 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:11:58 <_3b> yeah, speed difference is much more obvious once you get to compiling whole projects 05:12:03 some of it is quite odd, like a defined function calling itself %BIGNUM-REF in src/code/bignum is one example. I just assume that somewhere the compiler must translate that because otherwise that looks like an infinate loop. 05:12:37 <_3b> yeah, stuff like (defun foo() (foo)) is a fairly common idiom in lisp compilers 05:13:10 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:11 <_3b> the compiler knows how to compile a call to (foo) in some way that doesn't actually call foo 05:13:28 <_3b> (like expanding it inline, or calling some simpler function depending on argument types, etc) 05:13:32 ah, so those are the primitives so to speak. 05:13:51 <_3b> but you still want the real function to exist so #'foo can return something useful 05:14:12 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:14:22 <_3b> doesn't have to be 'primitive', but just defined with some other mechanism 05:14:26 I see. So much care was taken to declare the types correctly on the ones in bignum.lisp ^-^ 05:15:04 <_3b> compiler macros might work for that, or i think sbcl has a few lower-level ways fo defining things 05:15:15 oh well I was meaning "primitive" as in there does not seem to be a lisp language implementation of it. So the function must be defined vie some low level assembler transformation or something. 05:15:23 <_3b> (well, i know it does, i judt don't rememb er which they are at the moment) 05:15:48 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:15:50 <_3b> they could still be in lisp, just probably not defined with DEFUN :) 05:15:57 ah, no problem. I don't really have a "question" to answer or anything. These are just my observations. 05:16:16 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:18 <_3b> assembler or some other "host" language are also reasonable options though 05:17:12 makes sense :). I'm atm poking around trying to figure out how an array can have element type (unsigned-byte 7). 05:17:46 (upgraded-array-element-type '(unsigned-byte 7)) => (UNSIGNED-BYTE 7) ; is just strange! CCL gives (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8) 05:18:04 *_3b* for some reason thinks that has something to do with 7-bit ASCII... not sure what though 05:19:33 no, it's because of the rules about upgrading giving you a lattice 05:19:58 if you want both (signed-byte 8) and (unsigned-byte 8) arrays, you need (unsigned-byte 7) too 05:20:13 <_3b> ah, that sounds reasonable 05:21:11 oh. Strange then because as I said CCL (which I was using for a while) gave (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8). But ok that explains why there is also 15 and 31. 05:21:25 CCL is not standard-compliant in this respect 05:21:45 *_3b* was about to add that SBCL tends to be pickier about spec compliance than most lisps :) 05:22:53 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 05:24:54 ah, I guess so. I did find this gem in CCL's source while trying to figure out what caused the behavior difference. (defun upgraded-complex-part-type (type &optional env) #|omitted declarations|# 'real) with a comment reading "Ok, ok. So (upgraded-comple-part-type 'bogus) is 'REAL. So?" 05:25:27 sbcl's is real detailed compared to that one. 05:25:31 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-98-135.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-97-15.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:27:29 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vhgddjihhuzftsfw] has joined #lisp 05:27:55 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 05:30:17 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05082.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:41:15 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:41:51 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 05:44:35 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 05:44:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 05:44:45 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:57:48 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81F2B3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:07:41 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:13:16 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Quit: be back later] 06:14:35 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:15:50 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-48-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:50 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-48-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 06:15:50 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 06:16:03 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:16:18 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:17:33 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:18:41 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:41 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 06:24:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:27:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Quit: be back later] 06:28:06 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 06:31:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:32:17 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:34:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:35:14 -!- lanthan [~ze@46.253.54.75] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:38:11 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:39:00 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:40:24 good morning 06:41:59 Penten``` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 06:44:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xfjjjtzsvvwnhdgk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:44:41 -!- Penten`` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:50:27 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:53:00 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:04 vaaal [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-214-130.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 06:55:32 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-179-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:38 i've been reading the defpackage chapter on practical common lisp 06:55:54 when he talks about the organization of code 06:56:35 he says to put the defpackage in a separate code, and says "LOAD the file or files containing the DEFPACKAGE forms, possibly compiling them with COMPILE-FILE first. Then LOAD the files that use those packages" 06:56:36 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-esiqkgqfwalatmdd] has joined #lisp 06:57:01 isn't better to load the file with defpackage, and put a load into the defpackage file? 06:57:17 *load the package with defpackage 06:59:24 :-\ 07:01:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jgjupwzrhiagsbsr] has joined #lisp 07:01:32 Puting defpackage forms in a separate files makes it easier to have package A using symbols from package B and package B using symbols from package A. 07:02:07 Otherwise, if you have a strict DFA, you can indeed put the defpackage forms in the file where the rest of the package is defined. 07:02:25 DFA=? 07:03:20 Sorry, I mean DAG 07:03:23 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-48-19.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:03:50 which means..? 07:03:59 Direct Acyclic Graph. 07:04:19 I'm crazy, but I found out how to emit assembly instructions into my own segment with (sb-assem:assemble ...) :D. Now trying to figure out how execute it safely ^-^ 07:04:27 morning 07:04:35 pjb, i think i'ven't explained myself. 07:04:49 (directed?) 07:05:34 could you do this things: put all the defpackage into a file, then load the other file of the library throught the file with defpackage, so when you want to use the library you just have to tipe (load "defpackage-file.lisp") 07:05:44 isn't this a good solution or i miss something? 07:05:47 must be another package because I don't see anything in sb-assem that would let me run my segment %-%. 07:06:36 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:07:03 vaaal: Loading a file thru a file doesn't mean anything. 07:07:33 vaaal: what you can do, is to write a loader.lisp file which will load the library. 07:07:44 <_3b> vaaal: we usually just use ASDF to handle loading files in the correct order 07:07:46 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 07:07:49 vaaal: but nowadays, it's much better to write a .asd file to let ASDF or QUICKLISP load it for you. 07:08:22 asdf really helps :D 07:08:48 and I love whoever made quicklisp 07:09:20 lisper: Xach 07:09:30 well he/she rocks :) 07:09:39 sure beats the old way with asdf-install 07:09:52 <_3b> you can put a bunch of LOADs in a file by hand, but eventually you will probably run into limitations, and end up reimplementing parts of ASDF anyway 07:10:10 val186 [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-198-151.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 07:10:16 sorry i disconnected 07:10:18 <_3b> (like when you notice you forgot to COMPILE the files, which you can't portably assume LOAD does) 07:10:27 pjb, i was saying 07:10:45 can you put a (load "file2.lisp") in file1.lisp? 07:10:47 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-214-130.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:48 I really can't imagine ever wanting to re-implement ASDF. Whoever designed that system did a really good job as there simply is no match that I'm aware of for what ASDF does in any other language or environment. 07:11:02 <_3b> hmm, someone should wake minion up so it could list the URLs for channel logs :/ 07:11:09 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:11:16 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:25 vaaal: Notably, there's this notion of "dependency" which can be represented by a directed graph. To be able to load a file a.lisp, which contains an (in-package ...) form, you need to have the package defined, therefore you need to have loaded first the file packagges.lisp. Not the other way! 07:11:40 i know! 07:11:41 <_3b> lisper: that was pretty much the point, that you should just use ASDF now rather than using LOAD directly since it seems 'good enough' now :) 07:11:48 :-\ 07:12:06 val186: you can but again, this is a bad idea. The best you can do in this direction, is to have a file named loader.lips which takes care of loading the files of the project as needed, but it grows old very fast: better write a .asd file. 07:12:14 val, (load ....) will "work", but ASDF was designed for this ^-^ 07:12:27 ahh 07:12:39 sorry for my ignorance, an .asd file is a file of asdf? 07:13:18 val .asd is just a lisp file with (asdf:defsystem ...) in it 07:13:56 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 07:13:56 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:04 if i would learn about asdf there's a link or something..? 07:14:08 <_3b> sort of... .asd files are intended to be loaded by ASDF, not directly loaded with LOAD or whatever 07:14:11 yea sec 07:14:22 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:14:50 anyone know where the repo for cl-who is? 07:14:58 <_3b> so while they happen to have data in the form of lisp code, they are still more data files than code files 07:15:27 http://www.cliki.net/asdf is the page on asdf on the cliki wiki 07:15:35 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:40 thank you :) 07:16:06 -!- Phillip [~Phillip@c-75-72-88-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:16:13 that has a pile of links and all. These are similar to what "make" or "cbuild" or "qmake" do for C++ projects. 07:16:27 just... a heck of a lot better at it 07:16:33 <_3b> tempire: don't think i've seen any official repos for Weitz' stuff, including cl-who 07:17:33 it's a shame, it seems the changes from http://bit.ly/opAGrB have not been implemented 07:17:34 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18:30 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:18:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19:41 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 07:20:32 -!- H4ns`` is now known as H4ns 07:22:03 <_3b> tempire: ah, it looks like there might be stuff in svn at http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty 07:22:27 that is the development repository for hunchentoot and select other weitz stuff. 07:22:47 -!- val186 [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-198-151.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:08 but edi wants you to use the releases in general. if he misses a patch, there is nothing wrong to politely ask him on the relevant mailing list whether he's going to include it. 07:23:08 <_3b> H4ns: right, tempire was looking for a cl-who repo 07:23:10 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 07:23:33 cool, I found sb-c:generate-code which calls sb-assem:assemble. Now just to see how to jump into it. I'll probably crash sbcl while running my segment of NOPs but should be interesting to see how to do it. :) 07:23:36 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-122-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:23:36 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-122-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:23:36 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:24:14 <_3b> lisper: SBCL usually does asm through VOPs, which are chunks of asm it can use when compiling 07:24:44 <_3b> i think CCL lets you write things in asm more directly though 07:24:56 I was just about to note that there is a file called vop.lisp which I guess is for virtual operation or something 07:25:10 _3b nah this is nothing serious. I'm just fooling around :) 07:25:28 <_3b> yeah, just suggesting it would be easier in ccl :) 07:26:18 ah ^-^, but I just found sbcl! might try to figure out how to write my own VOP. 07:26:48 <_3b> if you want to do asm in sbcl, that would probably be the more productive route, not too hard to do either from what i remember 07:27:07 *_3b* hasn't tried in a while though, so doesn't remember the details 07:27:31 hehe not trying to be productive here :). Mostly just poking around. 07:27:33 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:33 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:27:58 <_3b> well, i meant more that it is a potentially useful skill, and more likely to actually be successful 07:28:06 ah 07:29:43 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:30:22 oh I see, segments wind up in a component. 07:30:33 Just turned on sb-c::*compiler-trace-output* 07:33:53 val096 [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-198-151.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 07:36:04 quicklisp really needs to updated to allow custom repos 07:36:10 *to be 07:38:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:05 tempire: you can already put your local libraries wherever you want, and (ql:quickload :them). 07:39:11 as long as you register them in asdf. 07:40:27 -!- val096 [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-198-151.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:30 yeah. I've just really gotten used to the homebrew way of doing things. I'm over manual downloading. It's so 2010. 07:41:24 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:43:32 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:42 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:16 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-229-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 07:48:27 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:48:49 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:05 val600 [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-222-70.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 07:53:56 fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:46 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:54:51 fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-135.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:56:27 -!- val600 [irc2gowebc@net-93-144-222-70.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:48 -!- vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:02:55 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 08:06:06 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:07 interesting, tracing upwards from component leads me to node.lisp which has all sorts of fun compiler structures! functional, clambda and so on :D 08:06:16 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.32.227] has joined #lisp 08:06:30 sadly I must go. I shall return to this soon :) 08:06:39 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-178.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:08:19 -!- Penten``` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:09:33 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 08:15:03 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:10 trigen_ [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has joined #lisp 08:17:36 ollkorrekt [~psych069@63.85.75.253] has joined #lisp 08:17:38 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:19:00 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:43 daniel___ [~daniel@p50829165.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:07 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:29 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:21:37 tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 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markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:51:22 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:51:37 -!- elliottcable [~elliottca@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: rage] 09:51:51 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-178.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52:22 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 09:52:23 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:54:27 -!- EyesIsMine is now known as EyesIsServer 09:55:26 can you write the equivalent of static methods in clos? 09:55:50 madnificent: equivalent in what sense? 09:57:30 jdz: in the sense that it'd be nice to have a method return a certain value when no object has been constructed so far. 09:58:31 (defmethod foo (a) 1) 09:58:41 jdz: i could hack it by specializing the method for the symbol of the class, but i'm hoping that someone smarter than me figured out something nicer 09:58:46 But I think that your thinking is backward. 09:58:52 Zhivago: and on what class do you think you're specializing? 09:59:04 Why would I need to specialize upon a class? 09:59:10 Methods don't belong to classes. 09:59:16 Zhivago: that's not my question 09:59:27 So, think about the question that you're trying to answer with this generic function. 09:59:35 What is that question? 10:01:08 Zhivago: look, i'm not here to discuss my design. this would fit in the design and i'm asking a basic question here. i know what clos is about. chances are that i've spent more time in it than you. regardless of all that, i have this issue and i think that clos may have a nice solution. i'm not asking for you to look at my design, i don't care about your comments. 10:02:11 You are unwilling to discuss it due to arrogange. That's fine. 10:02:47 Zhivago: so, do you have an answer regarding the language itself? 10:03:24 <|3b|> madnificent: how would you call it if it existed? 10:03:36 madnificent: See above. It's likely that your thinking is invalid, and you should consider the question that this generic method is supposed to answer in this case. 10:03:37 i could specialize on the object returned by #'find-class for instance. but i'm hoping for something sweeter 10:04:22 <|3b|> well, if you don't have an instance, that pretty much only leaves the class or the name of the class to specialize on 10:04:24 What does it mean to say (foo x) when there is no x for foo to operate upon? 10:04:25 |3b|: the class exists so far, but i don't have a reference to an object of the class. 10:04:40 Does it mean anything? 10:04:43 Zhivago: there is an x, it's (find-class 'foo) 10:04:53 Then specialize on that. 10:05:11 Zhivago: read and then ask, sorry man. i've said that that was possible 10:05:36 But it doesn't explain why you're thinking in terms of "when no object has been constructed so far". 10:05:58 Zhivago: because i'm not discussing my design with you. 10:06:01 Since specializing on the class wouldn't be affected by that. 10:06:47 If you can't be bothered to explain your problem properly, don't complain when you don't get useful advice. 10:07:20 madnificent: static methods are created with defun: (defun static-method () 1) 10:07:20 Zhivago: good 10:07:41 pjb: i know that, but that wouldn't be configurable on a per-class basis, now would it? 10:08:09 madnificent: if you need different static methods for different classes: (defmethod static-method ((class (eql 'some-class))) 42) (static-method 'some-class) 10:08:09 for the record: I'm not saying that clos does the wrong thing. I'm asking whether or not there's a facility to aid in this. 10:08:39 pjb: you'd eql on the symbol, not on #'find-class ? 10:08:55 The other question should be, why can't you have an instance of this class? 10:09:00 It's easier to use a symbol, but if you prefer, you can use find-class. 10:10:14 pjb: the eql specializer wouldn't use the class-hierarchy in the same way objects do though 10:10:29 in the sense that it wouldn't use it at all 10:10:51 What hierarchy is there between metaclasses? 10:11:58 pjb: that's the way i was thinking at the moment. however, the classes themselves do have a hierarchy. so i should be able to use clos and extend the dispatching so it works on classes as well 10:12:13 s/clos/the mop/ 10:12:13 Classes are instances, after all. 10:12:30 instances with a hierarchy, which can be exploited 10:12:37 madnificent: you can play with the MOP. 10:13:16 i think i'll do that on a later time, sounds like fun. i'm going for find-class for now. 10:13:17 -!- jamied [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 10:13:19 thanks all! 10:13:32 jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:15:14 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:30 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:21:45 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:26:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C082.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:54 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C082.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:47 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:45 Hey, do you have some resources that talk about optimisation in lisp ? (statical typing for example) 10:34:03 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.5] has joined #lisp 10:34:41 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 10:34:43 The_third_man: I'd use google. 10:34:51 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 10:36:06 did'nt find much 10:36:40 I get about 2,280,000 results. 10:36:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:36:46 and I was looking for good resources from lisper, not random results 10:36:56 pjb, that's good, you won an internet 10:37:01 The_third_man: search in American instead of in British. 10:37:33 yep, I shoul maybe use google us instead of google fr 10:37:36 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.32.227] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:38:11 Well, I guess you could find something using French keywords, but English or Chinese is bound to give you more results. 10:38:58 http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm 10:39:03 there's not much about lisp in france I guess 10:39:05 Even Spanish is better than French here. 10:39:44 which library should I use if I need select()? I'm not sure usocket has it (wait-for-input is different IIUIC). 10:40:07 The_third_man: well, there's LiSP Lisp In Small Piece, which is written in French, and talks about lisp interpreters and compilers. I don't remember much about optimization, or better, compilers are all about optimization. 10:40:21 z0d: iolib 10:40:54 z0d: http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ 10:42:56 pjb, I'll take a look, thanks :) 10:44:26 The_third_man: THe French title is "Principes d'implantation de Scheme et Lisp" and you can find it at Le Monde en Tiques. 10:45:53 "Le Monde en Tiques" ? 10:47:01 pjb: thanks 10:55:33 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC94E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:52 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 10:58:06 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 10:58:46 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8870.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:59:12 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 10:59:21 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-169-16.prtc.net] has quit [] 10:59:41 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:59:53 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-20-164.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:00:31 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-81-122.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:01:19 The_third_man: "Le Monde en Tiques" is a famous Parisian computer book library. http://www.lmet.fr/GSWeb/lmet.gswa 11:02:42 "the world of pants"? 11:04:03 pnq [~nick@AC819235.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:51 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-72-229-247-113.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:23 Xach: ticks. It's a pun on informaTIQUE, electronIQUE, bioionIQUUE, technIQUE, etc. 11:07:12 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: rage] 11:07:25 informatimagotique 11:07:38 :-) 11:08:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09:28 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-67-46.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:28 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-67-46.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 11:09:28 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 11:10:55 elliottcable [~ec@ell.io] has joined #lisp 11:11:05 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:11:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:11:25 -!- elliottcable [~ec@ell.io] has quit [Client Quit] 11:12:39 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:12:39 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 11:12:40 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 11:14:22 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:42 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 11:18:30 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:59 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 11:20:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:24:06 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-48-19.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 11:30:14 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.5] has joined #lisp 11:32:36 pjb , oh, I didn't now about this one 11:32:43 than you :) 11:33:13 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 11:33:13 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:33:13 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 11:35:01 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:35:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:45:07 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jgjupwzrhiagsbsr] has left #lisp 11:46:53 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:14 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.162.39] has joined #lisp 11:54:35 drdo [~drdo@199.119.226.161] has joined #lisp 11:55:08 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:22 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:57:46 Joreji [~thomas@69-105.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:00:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:00:38 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 12:01:28 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:34 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:41 -!- bandu [~furfag@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:05:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:07:46 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-23-60.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:18 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:10:23 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 12:14:24 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.162.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:15:07 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:40 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:19:41 ells [~Adium@c-107-3-238-180.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:10 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:03 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.162.39] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.225] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.225] has quit [Changing host] 12:30:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 Xach: ayt? 12:32:17 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:32:27 Xach: nm :) 12:32:44 Was ist los? 12:33:27 Xach: i wondered where i could find the source for a certain quicklisp package, but i found quicklisp-projects, so i'm good. 12:33:57 Ah, good. Sorry about the opacity. I don't like it either. 12:34:56 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:35:17 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:40:27 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 12:49:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:50:56 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:51:44 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has joined #lisp 12:52:45 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.162.86] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.5] has joined #lisp 12:59:43 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.52.100] has joined #lisp 13:01:53 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.162.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:08 leyyer_su [~user@222.209.142.86] has joined #lisp 13:03:42 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:12:19 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.162.86] has joined #lisp 13:13:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819235.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:34 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:14:31 'morning 13:14:45 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:54 hola canadero 13:15:11 ciao ciao 13:15:14 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:32 how we solve NAME-CONFLICT while use two different packages ? (in this case clsql-user and s-xml-rpc) 13:15:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C082.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:43 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C082.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 kushal: you can use shadowing-import-from to choose which you prefer 13:16:31 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:49 Xach: Is there a ql command to remove old modules, ie. cleanup after update-all-dists? 13:16:51 kushal: you can also not import the packages in the first place. 13:16:52 or just don't :use neither of packages 13:16:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:04 truly there are many options 13:17:25 flip214: (ql-dist:clean (ql-dist:dist "quicklisp")) is one verbose way to do it. it's supposed to happen automatically but i haven't made it work properly yet. 13:17:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:17:38 i find it's better to :use as little packages as possible 13:17:59 Xach: thank you; and that only removes old versions, right? I'll try. 13:18:01 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:18:03 stassats, so how you manage using other packages ? 13:18:06 flip214: Yes. 13:18:20 kushal: with package qualifiers, naturally 13:18:28 kushal: prefix their symbols with the package names. 13:18:35 ok 13:20:06 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-23-60.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:24 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:20:43 *Xach* sometimes selectively imports 13:20:56 what is the emacs shortcut to find not closed parenthesis ? 13:22:25 M-x slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp 13:22:40 or use paredit so you don't have mismatched parens. 13:23:29 kushal: M-x check-parens 13:23:38 so many options. 13:23:44 *Fade* goes in search of coffee 13:23:49 Xach: thanks for that too. I have been looking for it for ages. 13:24:20 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:31 ah nice 13:25:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:26:26 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:27:24 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 13:32:28 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-34-80.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:26 PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has joined #lisp 13:35:34 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:35 -!- PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has left #lisp 13:37:26 Good morning, all. 13:38:31 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-72-229-247-113.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:39:27 hola CP 13:39:36 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:41:11 ¡Hola! 13:41:25 ¡Hola! 13:41:35 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:08 It's only comparatively recently that I figured out how to compose keys under X. :) 13:42:30 ChibaPet: Well, I use emacs, I typed C-x 8 ! 13:42:38 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:02 hm 13:43:24 Interesting. I'll have to look at that. For me it was compose-shift-1 (!) shift-1 13:43:56 i just shake my monitor and ! turns into ¡ 13:44:11 stassats: you could do that with an iPad :-) 13:44:11 Just use XIM. :) 13:44:11 I'll have to look at that option as well. Thank you. 13:44:44 Shaking 'em would be incentive to keep my desk(s) clean around them. Ancillary benefit. 13:49:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:53:28 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 13:55:56 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:57:41 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-34-80.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:59 Znudzon [~IceChat7@dynamic-87-105-184-79.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 13:58:46 rolando [~user@159.29.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:59:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-18.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-240-56.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:01:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:04:07 hm (fdefinition method-name) returns error at :load-toplevel although method is defined using defmethod. 14:04:23 is there any way to access method at level :load-toplevel in sbcl? 14:05:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:05:42 i'm trying to define new methods using defined ones employing sb-pcl::compute-applicable-methods-using-classes, unfortunately, it seems i do not have access to method objects at level :load-toplevel. 14:06:11 any advices pkhuong ? 14:08:25 -!- Znudzon [~IceChat7@dynamic-87-105-184-79.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!] 14:12:11 fdefinition doesn't work on methods, but on functions 14:12:36 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-227.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:37 stassats: i know, i've been using sb-pcl::find-generic-function but the same error pops out. 14:12:43 and using unexported internal symbols is a bad idea 14:12:48 what are you really trying to do? 14:13:00 stassats: thought i've looked at the definition of that finder and saw that it employs fdefinition acutally. 14:13:15 stassats: i'm trying to define a new method but i need to access other methods to gather information. 14:13:21 generic functions are functions, fdefinition works on them 14:13:49 stassats: basically i need to be able to use sb-pcl::compute-applicable-methods-using-classes. 14:14:10 specifically, i need to be able use it inside a macro. 14:14:37 i've wrapped macro in `(eval-when (:load-toplevel)) kind of kludge, but didnt work. 14:14:46 first, it's sb-mop:compute-applicable-methods-using-classes 14:14:52 where did you find that it's sb-pcl? 14:15:05 stassats: letme check. 14:15:11 second, paste your code 14:15:38 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:44 stassats: ok i'll make up a test and paste, i dont want to bother you with the details. 14:16:27 no, the details are needed 14:16:59 stassats: ok http://labs.core.gen.tr/repos/core-server/src/class+/lift.lisp 14:17:09 stassats: see defmethod/lift 14:17:31 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:34 stassats: it is the kludge for %defmethod/lift 14:17:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.52.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:11 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:18:39 eval-when (:execute) doesn't make much sense 14:18:52 yeah ii now 14:18:56 it will be only run when using LOAD on that .lisp 14:19:12 when i put :load-toplevel, it gives me error that method-name is undefined. 14:19:41 because it's not defined? 14:19:47 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:20:12 stassats: i'm defining usual method using defmethod so they should be defined right? 14:20:41 if you do that before you're trying to find them, yes 14:21:03 that's exactly what i'm doing i suppose, you can see the example at the end of the file. 14:21:21 there is a (defmethod lifted-method..) and (defmethod/lift lifted-method..) 14:22:06 once i state the first, lifted-method should be a defined generic function yet it doesnt go into namespace. 14:24:42 pnq [~nick@ACA34C6E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:27:05 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:27:18 well, you're trying to find a method which isn't defined yet 14:27:30 macroexpansion is done before compilation 14:28:00 and your doing (:execute) eval-when doesn't solve any problem, it just prevents it from running 14:28:01 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-24-218.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:34 ok 14:28:53 how can i postponse that macroexpansion i know that there is progn trick but cant make it work. 14:28:58 and don't use sb-pcl::, the package to use for MOP in SBCL is sb-mop 14:29:05 but better still, just use closer-mop 14:29:21 stassats: ok i''ve changed them to sb-mop 14:29:37 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:29:46 you can't postpone macroexpansion 14:29:46 stassats: thnx for pointing that out. 14:30:05 stassats: hm 14:30:06 you can expand into code which will do what you want to do at run-time 14:30:15 looks like you need to learn some macros basics 14:30:34 compiler levels are always confusing me. 14:30:40 i admit that. 14:30:52 i know that expansion is always take place 14:31:20 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: rage] 14:33:19 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:33:32 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.209.142.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:41 urandom__ [~user@p548A3D0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:00 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 14:36:40 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:38:32 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-25.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:55 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:51 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:23 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 14:53:04 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.162.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:39 v0|d, stassats: being a n00b looking for confirmation on reading lisp - is the purpose of lifted-method to allow one to override methods from other classes? isn't that ability provided by the CLOS? how does it differ? 14:54:05 excuse me, i mean defmethod/lift and the :lift keyword 14:54:35 Methods from classes? 14:55:42 ells: I have never heard of a :lift keyword. Where did you read about it? 14:55:52 referring to http://labs.core.gen.tr/repos/core-server/src/class+/lift.lisp - just a useless curiosity about the code, and what it does that isn't provided by the CLOS already 14:55:55 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 14:56:14 some example code posted from v0|d about a problem regarding macro expansion 14:56:14 s/useless/idle/ 14:56:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:18 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vhgddjihhuzftsfw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:10 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 ells: i'm trying to lift some method 14:59:45 finally s-xml-rpc is working for a server 15:00:00 ells: and no clos does not have lifting. 15:02:58 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:11 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:03:20 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 15:06:02 lurker-x [~androirc@32.168.132.77] has joined #lisp 15:06:03 what is the lifting of methods ? 15:06:27 kushal: contrags on getting it working, but have you tried cxml-rpc? (: 15:06:49 oh wait 15:06:55 antifuchs, I said wrong 15:07:11 -!- ollkorrekt [~psych069@63.85.75.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:15 antifuchs, I was trying rpc4cl still now 15:07:45 um. 15:08:01 I didn't know about that one. it sounds very much like cxml-rpc 15:08:51 antifuchs, my requirement : have to implement/provide information over xmlrpc and json 15:08:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123715 15:09:06 The_third_man: see the expansion of defmethod/lift 15:09:08 um, that looks like it IS cxml-rpc 15:09:08 antifuchs, any example for cxml-rpc as server ? 15:09:27 The_third_man: nothing fancy just some functional programming technique. 15:09:41 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:10:11 -!- pdn [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:11:05 kushal: sure. just a second 15:12:51 kushal: https://github.com/antifuchs/cxml-rpc has a little example that shows how to set up a server 15:13:19 antifuchs, was reading that only :) 15:13:49 ok I guess I should be glad the author of rpc4cl chose cxml-rpc as the base, but why he renamed the project and didn't consider forking it is a mystery to me ): 15:14:47 LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:59 sbalouse [~sbalouse@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:16:14 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:16:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA34C6E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:17:22 -!- reb` [~user@nat/google/x-usoxmncbewhszmse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:02 antifuchs: what suggests to you that it used cxml-rpc as the base? 15:18:13 -!- sbalouse [~sbalouse@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has left #lisp 15:18:44 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:48 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:18:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:19:43 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:00 sbalouse [~sbalouse@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:32 -!- sbalouse [~sbalouse@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has left #lisp 15:21:50 brown [~user@nat/google/x-ibdhdndinqfifrzh] has joined #lisp 15:22:17 -!- brown is now known as Guest2716 15:25:45 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has joined #lisp 15:28:39 howdy folks 15:28:59 welcome back, slyrus 15:29:19 thanks! nice to be home, but Italy and England were pretty awesome too 15:29:40 ooh, you were in Italy 15:30:05 tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:30:11 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:30:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:51 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 15:31:11 yep. unseasonably wet and cold, which was better than the alternative 15:31:39 what's new in the land of lisp? 15:32:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:32:45 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.162.86] has joined #lisp 15:32:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.162.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:33:40 hello slyrus 15:33:51 hey fe[nl]ix 15:35:12 seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:23 you were in England? Bah! 15:35:58 Hey Kryztof, I had the family along, or I would have suggested grabbing a pint. Sorry to blow through town and not look you up! 15:36:39 tsk. We could have had a two-family meetup. :-) 15:36:47 Next time 15:36:53 that's the bad news, the good news is that it reminded me that I really need to make sure I'm over there at least once a year! 15:36:55 indeed 15:38:15 slyrus: which part of the Italy did you visit btw? (I'm in Trento) 15:38:31 what is the home site for cxml-rpc? 15:38:38 google failure. 15:39:06 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-24-218.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:25 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:42:06 er, why is emacs suddenly composing into .. hiragana? &bo -> 15:42:07 heh 15:42:08 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.86] has joined #lisp 15:43:25 oGMo: cause the north invaded you! 15:43:27 lol 15:44:41 Hey slyrus. How's the biohacking? 15:45:26 he got the stock eggs! 15:45:30 lol 15:46:46 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 15:46:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:48:28 val470 [~val@host252-12-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:51:07 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 15:51:21 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 15:53:54 oGMo: you've switched the input method. Try C-\ to toggle back. If still no good, try: M-x set-input-method RET and choose your usual input method. 15:54:24 pjb: thanks, didn't see any indicators or minor modes 15:57:05 Input methods can be indicated as a first characters in the mode line. - is the defalt, you may have something else. 15:57:31 yeah noticed the 'm' after trying C-\ 16:01:53 dixon [~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon] has joined #lisp 16:02:34 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:03:24 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-124-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:24 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-124-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:24 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 16:03:50 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:22 -!- Guest2716 is now known as reb` 16:04:36 nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:41 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:41 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 16:06:16 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 16:10:03 redline6561: eh, not too much going at the moment. I was beginning to dust off chemicl and cl-bio (soon to be called biologicl perhaps) on the plane yesterday. 16:13:05 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 16:13:48 HG` [~HG@p5DC05F48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:34 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:46 chemicl, biologicl, nuclicl? 16:16:58 opticl 16:18:01 nuclar! 16:18:12 do you guys know a good introduction to neural network with programming example? 16:18:13 -!- LiliEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:18:30 sucklical, sucklear 16:18:51 val470: no, i remember programming a mini neural network in lisp. i guess there weren't any stable libraries around by then. 16:19:11 not a librery 16:19:15 but a introduction book 16:20:05 ah sorry no, we had a book written by the professor IIRC (for that specific course, which wasn't only about neural networks) 16:20:08 there's a python one i know... 16:20:12 never used it tho... 16:20:47 could have lips parts too....don't know 16:21:18 err lisp 16:21:54 mmm ok thanks 16:24:17 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:24:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-131.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:25:25 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:46 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.20] has joined #lisp 16:26:16 -!- val470 [~val@host252-12-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 16:26:59 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.162.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:28:56 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@ip68-109-29-26.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:51 -!- samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:23 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:18 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@ip68-109-29-26.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:26 Xach: hmm, I was going by superficial similarities, it seems 16:33:37 a bunch of stuff seems different after all 16:33:58 ok 16:34:08 guess there aren't that many ways to implement an xml-rpc interface after all (: 16:34:39 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.100] has joined #lisp 16:35:41 samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:40 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-162.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:40:09 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 16:40:22 drake01 [~drake01@115.246.157.21] has joined #lisp 16:41:18 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 16:41:24 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 16:41:52 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-esiqkgqfwalatmdd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:15 jdz [~jdz@host40-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:47:15 So if I want to do something only if a key isn't in a table, and then mark the table with the key, is this reasonable, or is there a nicer way? (when (shiftf (gethash key table) t) ...)? 16:47:37 err, UNLESS, of course. 16:47:57 Yes. 16:48:12 What is the nicer way? 16:48:17 (shiftf i (1+ i)) is ++i 16:48:25 i++ I mean. 16:48:30 (incf i) is ++i. 16:48:47 Xach: I don't understand the question. 16:48:58 Don't let that stop you from answering it. 16:49:30 i++ is (prog1 i (incf i)) 16:49:51 pjb: This is for doing something e.g. only for the first record in a file with a particular identifying characteristic that might be present on multiple records. 16:50:01 Xach: I'd macro it up. Otherwise you write to the hash table even when the key is already in the table. 16:50:17 Good point. 16:50:33 what do you think about this optimization? define a class of functions which don't non-locally-exit when their type arguments, are correct, infer the types, and if they unify, don't cps-transform as much of the fn as possible? 16:51:11 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-6-2.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:43 this should be asked in #scheme, but it was met with silence 16:51:51 weirdo: optimisation for what? Don't cps transform instead of what? 16:51:57 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:52:00 pkhuong, instead of cps-transform :) 16:52:02 Zhivago: shiftf might be nicer. 16:52:05 which conses tons of closures 16:52:07 weirdo: ANF? 16:52:31 Zhivago, come again, please? 16:52:49 Administrative Normal Form. 16:52:51 weirdo: are you using CPS as an IR, or do you also need it for call/cc? 16:53:03 pkhuong, latter 16:53:44 i'm worried when my "native-fib" or "tak" spends dozens of percent of time in GC 16:53:50 s/native/naive 16:54:04 Maybe you need a better GC. 16:54:18 pjb: Could be. 16:54:52 pkhuong, it's Google Chrome, the best engine for my target so far :-( 16:55:07 -!- trigen_ [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:55:15 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-135.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:45 You can syntactically distinguish closures that are created by CPS (might be covered in "Compiling with continuations" and the "... continued" sequel). That's been used to easily convert CPSed code to direct style; you could probably do the same for functions that don't capture the continuation. 16:56:15 I went with ANF, and explicit stack copying, though. Easier for interop. 16:56:22 Zhivago, yes, that makes sense, thanks 16:56:37 and requires a minimum of effort compared to CPS 16:57:19 (i also have a side-effect of all arguments to compiler-macros being atoms) 16:57:49 Why would that matter? 16:57:53 weirdo: not necessarily a good thing. 16:57:59 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.255.96] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 16:58:16 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:59:18 on another note, pkhuong 16:59:32 what type inference for dynamically-typed lisp would you recommend? constraint propagation? 16:59:39 (what sbcl uses, i believe) 16:59:58 It's all constraint propagation. 17:00:09 are there any better systems? 17:00:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-105.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:39 i'm also looking into 1) recursive types 2) typed conses 17:00:58 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-166.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:10 you probably want a CFA first, especially for a scheme. 17:01:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:02:17 Joreji [~thomas@69-105.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:02:44 pnq [~nick@AC8111CA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:04 but, as I said, it's *all* constraint propagation (Sulzmann wrote some stuff to reframe class algorithms like Algorithm W in a constraint solving framework). The PLT team has interesting stuff going on with typed racket. 17:04:41 but typed racket is typed 17:04:49 it's not plain Scheme? 17:06:11 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:06:22 -!- dixon [~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon] has left #lisp 17:07:27 weirdo: it still looks a lot like scheme. You're looking into recursive types and typed conses. That's far from plain scheme too. 17:08:09 pkhuong, but only at compile time 17:08:15 for optimization purposes 17:08:57 http://kurtstephens.com/node/59 - this takes 4 seconds and a LOT of time in GC 17:10:03 weirdo: I'm not sure that type inference is actually that important. 17:10:50 weirdo: It you have a look at the state of the art for javascript, they've gone in completely the other direction, with good result. 17:11:03 Zhivago, inline caching? 17:11:04 Assuming that you're interested in performance rather than verification, that is. 17:11:13 Well, tracing common paths. 17:11:29 And then detecting deviation. 17:12:53 weirdo: get some CFA working first, if you want to do static analyses on Scheme - higher order functions everywhere. And yeah, trying to compile to something that trace compilers can handle well would be an interesting approach. 17:13:22 It really depends on what you want typing for -- optimization or static verification. 17:13:35 optimization only 17:13:40 The optimization crowd seems to have had most of the wind taken out of their sails. 17:14:27 I suspect that we're nearing the end of the static type inference mania, as the true costs become apparent as well as the limitations regarding distributed systems. 17:14:54 you mean distributed computation? 17:15:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-38.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:15:13 I mean distributed systems, but that includes distributed computation. 17:15:57 so i should just write a naive compiler, as i've been doing so far, without any fancy shenanigans? 17:16:01 People are starting to realize that we probably can't eliminate incoherence from any large, dynamic, distributed system. 17:16:02 zfx [~zfx@host86-166-117-115.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:02 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-166-117-115.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:16:02 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:16:07 Dunno -- why are you doing it? 17:17:02 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:17:07 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:20 why am i writing the compiler? i want to have a Lisp inside a web browser 17:17:35 and existing implementations are deficient, as well as i need a learning experience 17:17:36 Well, then hand off the heavy lifting to js. 17:17:53 Anyone has recommandations regarding a web host? 17:17:57 xingped_ [~xingped@node20.seg42.ucf.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:58 yeah. it's not like anyone will run "tak" in a web browser anyway 17:18:05 upwardindex, your own 17:18:07 I used to recommend linode, but now ec2 is looking pretty good. 17:18:27 question: how do you run a lisp program under windows? i'm a TA grader and one of my students submitted his programming assignment as LISP. >_< 17:18:31 See if their free for a year micro-hosts will do what you want. 17:18:41 xingped_, CCL 17:18:42 Anyone has tried nearlyfreespeech.net? 17:18:51 xingped: Try clisp. 17:19:07 Was looking at ec2 but i can almost get a dedicated server at that price... 17:19:23 thanks 17:19:36 $30/yr? 17:19:37 xingped_: If it was really submitted in LISP, you're in trouble. 17:19:41 upwardindex: if it's for a lisp app, nearlyfreespeech isn't going to be much use to you 17:19:42 I have a friend who uses nearlyfreespeech, but he doesn't get heavy traffic or anything. 17:19:49 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:19:50 xingped_: are you sure its common lisp? 17:19:52 there are cheaper VPS options than Amazon 17:20:04 It's hard to beat free. :) 17:20:16 xingped_: but if it's Common Lisp, it should work -- make sure you know which one they used. Perhaps it's actually Scheme, or Racket. 17:20:24 sykopomp, i want to punch this student in the face. the general rules at our school are c/c++/c#/java, but i had one student even submit it in php. thankfully i knew what to do with that 17:20:30 Anyhow, what requirements do you have? 17:20:52 xingped_: I did that to a TA of mine once. They should've punched me in the face. 17:21:01 :) 17:21:05 xingped: Did you hide the body well? 17:21:07 *Xach* remembers GPLing his homework 17:21:14 I specified what languages I was ready to accept when I TAed. 17:21:48 Xach: some more conservative universities might take issue with that 17:21:57 (with an "email me" provision because I'm reasonable that way ;) 17:21:59 Zhivago, you'd be surprised how fast a dozen starved pigs can chew through a body - bones and all ;) 17:22:05 in many cases, everything produced by the student belongs to the university unless stated otherwise 17:22:10 rsynnott: At the time it felt like an inside joke that nobody would possibly get. Who had ever heard of the GPL? 17:22:12 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 17:22:13 (or at least they have some rights to it) 17:22:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:38 xingped_, is the assignment non-trivial? 17:23:01 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:23:06 weirdo, what do you mean by that? 17:23:42 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:02 xingped_, if it was trivial, the student is just a show-off i suppose :) 17:24:05 -!- oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:24:13 Xof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:51 weirdo, oh yeah, this student is clearly a showoff/smartass. the program could easily be written in about an hour 17:24:52 xingped_: Can I ask what the definitions start with? Is it (defun ..) (defn ...) (define ..), etc? 17:25:02 sykopomp, lemme check 17:25:11 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:25:11 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-27-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:25:13 and if it's non-trivial, it's very problematic, as the grader is unlikely to be able to determine whether it actually works properly 17:25:18 Just paste it to lisp paste 17:25:24 oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has joined #lisp 17:25:28 anyone using BioBike in anger? I have a cancer researcher friend who wants to get into bioinformatics and is looking for a suitable entry point. 17:25:37 -!- drake01 [~drake01@115.246.157.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:25:37 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:25:38 zfx: gigamonkey, perhaps 17:25:48 cheers. 17:26:03 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:03 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-179-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:03 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:06 or slyrus? 17:26:11 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:26:24 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:26:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:37 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:37 rsynnott: define workingness mostly in terms of unit tests (: 17:26:41 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:26:52 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 17:26:57 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-27-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:26:58 sykopomp, i see defun near the start 17:27:14 pkhuong: could do that, but most college assignments don't 17:27:23 and there might a question of efficiency, too 17:27:27 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:53 xingped_: that's a compelling reason to believe he's using CL 17:28:13 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:28:13 rsynnott: it's a pretty efficient grading method (: 17:28:20 sykopomp, okay 17:29:21 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:52 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:19 xingped_: so installing clisp and running it there might be good enough. If it's not, it might be time to talk to the local farmer about some pigs. 17:30:23 good luck :) 17:30:39 sykopomp, haha, thanks 17:30:54 couldn't you just ask the student to show you how to run it/ 17:30:55 ? 17:31:46 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:32:04 but then you submit to the smartass. You have to either act like you brushed their challenge aside like nothing, or give them a hard time for trying to be cute. 17:34:02 mcspiff [~user@142.68.144.68] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 is there a standard function or quicklisp-installable one that will let me split a sequence (string in my case) every n items? 17:34:44 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 17:34:59 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:15 something like (divide-sequence #(A B C D E F) 3) -> #(A B C) #(D E F) 17:35:22 mcspiff, just run SUBSEQ in a loop 17:35:34 install "split-sequence" 17:35:51 nikodemus: that splits by length? 17:35:52 oh, sorry. i misunderstood what you want 17:36:33 but you can use it still 17:36:44 kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:47 -!- xingped_ [~xingped@node20.seg42.ucf.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:23 xingped_ [~xingped@node20.seg42.ucf.edu] has joined #lisp 17:38:01 -!- xingped_ [~xingped@node20.seg42.ucf.edu] has left #lisp 17:38:02 nikodemus: I read the docs for split-sequence, but it looked to me like it just split based on a deliminator? 17:38:02 nikodemus: no problem, just making sure I didn't misread the docs 17:38:23 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 17:38:27 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 17:39:08 turns out, you can't 17:39:24 (let ((n 3) (i 0)) (split-sequence:split-sequence-if (lambda (x) (zerop (setf i (mod (1+ i) (1+ n))))) #(A B C D E F))) => (#(A B C) #(E F)) 17:39:27 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-179-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:33 (that's what i had in mind) 17:39:43 is it hard to write a new swank? 17:40:00 no 17:40:12 stassats: I like that idea 17:40:12 :-) 17:40:24 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:40:26 i'll have one riding in a web browser soon 17:40:40 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:43 weirdo: NaCL. 17:40:50 weirdo: https://github.com/ivan4th/swank-js 17:41:19 wow! 17:41:40 mcspiff: i don't 17:43:01 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e947.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 stassats: Well, I like that you (and others) thought about the problem 17:43:44 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:44:27 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:44:43 mcspiff: what should it do if the length of a sequence isn't divisible by N? 17:46:06 stassats: hmmm, I'd say ideally for my application return a non-full bucket as a 2nd return value 17:46:07 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:41 I'm wondering now if I even need to actually divide the sequence, or if I can just do this with math. I'm looking to calculate the number of lines in a string, if it was word-wrapped to a fix column width like 80 chars 17:48:00 but I don't think I ever actually need the lines themselves 17:48:45 mcspiff: counting characters won't get word wrapping right. 17:49:30 pkhuong: Doesn't need to be correct word-wrapping in the sense of actually displaying the text 17:49:34 anyway: (defun divide-sequence (sequence n) (loop for i from n to (length sequence) by n and start = 0 then i collect (subseq sequence start i) into divisions finally (return (values divisions (subseq sequence (- (length sequence) (mod (length sequence) n))))))) 17:49:43 mcspiff: still won't get the line count right. 17:50:41 pkhuong: For what I'm using it for, its close enough. If its off by ~10% its fine 17:51:39 pkhuong: playing around with the ideas in this paper: http://www.l3s.de/web/upload/documents/1/wsdm187-kohlschuetter.pdf 17:51:57 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:52:09 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:52:30 stassats: ah thank you, that does the trick 17:52:58 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 17:55:09 rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-114-134.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 17:55:29 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-133-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8111CA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:00:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:01:52 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:04:29 mcspiff: can you just take the total number of characters and divide by the line length to figure out the number of lines? Or am I missing something that you wanted to do with it? 18:06:14 jiacobucci: Yeah I realized after talking it out here that I don't actually need the divisions, its just the number I need. At least for now. I have stassats if that changes 18:06:25 stassats's function rather 18:07:31 *stassats* is relieved 18:07:49 It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again. 18:08:21 *mcspiff* doesn't actually have stassats in the basement. Promise. 18:09:54 https://github.com/xach/linebreaker is something i wrote for wigflip projects 18:09:58 i can't remember if it actually works, though 18:11:52 peearr [~ACummings@159.153.4.51] has joined #lisp 18:16:46 pnq [~nick@AC818DA2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: JuanDaugherty] 18:19:11 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-114-134.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:19:45 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:38 -!- peearr is now known as PR` 18:20:50 -!- PR` is now known as peearr 18:22:42 -!- kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:03 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:25:31 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:32 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.86] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:27:38 -!- nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:29:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:18 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:33 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.144.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:49 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 18:33:20 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:34:06 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:35:20 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:37:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-18.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:38:15 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:38:57 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 18:42:42 -!- michelp [~michelp@ec2-50-17-232-64.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:43:00 michelp` [~michelp@ec2-50-17-232-64.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-105.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:01 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:01 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:58:01 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:58:01 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:00 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:39 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 -!- lichtblau [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:04 -!- pnq [~nick@AC818DA2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:04:21 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 19:05:48 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:08:42 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:10:10 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:49 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:13:03 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 19:15:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:02 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:17:03 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 19:17:03 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:17:06 foocraft_ [~ewanas@78.101.44.182] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 bandu [~furfag@pool-71-164-242-237.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 -!- bandu [~furfag@pool-71-164-242-237.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:18:00 bandu [~furfag@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 19:19:21 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.255.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:20:07 PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has joined #lisp 19:20:11 -!- PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has left #lisp 19:20:26 -!- cnl [~cnl@78.31.74.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:21:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:24:19 Any idea what to do when I get a "Condition of type: SEGMENTATION-VIOLATION" with ECL? 19:24:39 debug 19:24:42 just Lisp code (and libraries) 19:25:01 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-254-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:02 stassats`: yes, thank you. Using GDB doesn't help much 19:25:08 put your debugging hat on and start digging 19:25:20 because of SIGSEGV and SIGPWR and so on ... 19:25:30 you can ignore those 19:25:56 but GDB is a good idea? 19:26:26 i've used it successfully to debug ECL, yes 19:26:53 is there a reason that static typing would make mutability difficult ? 19:27:01 gdb has "pass" keyword 19:27:15 It's more that mutability makes static typing harder. 19:27:26 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 19:27:27 you can put it into .gdbinit in the current directory 19:27:28 Static typing being about invariant relationships. 19:27:33 think that's what I meant, actually 19:28:22 can't you still check set!'s at compile-time ? 19:29:01 well, i'm not sure about current directory 19:29:23 (set! x (a)) <- What does this mean if a can be mutated elsewhere? 19:30:08 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:30:11 stassats`: but if I just ignore them, GDB won't stop ECL when the problem occurs ... 19:30:36 you shouldn't stop all signals, of course 19:30:43 It means that you need to know about all the ways in which a can be mutated in order to infer the type of (a). 19:30:46 s/stop/ignore/ 19:30:54 just those used by boehm-gc 19:30:55 bbl 19:32:05 hmmm .... it segfaults in c:build-program 19:32:24 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:32:56 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0d29.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:09 hi 19:33:33 and if I put a (step) around I get "variable ... is unbound" - which is wrong, because I can print it a line earlier just fine 19:33:49 Zhivago: assume everything is type-annotated 19:34:45 but yes, I think I see the issues 19:36:12 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 19:44:43 bgs100 [~ian@h184.98.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h184.98.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:44:45 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:46:42 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 pnq [~nick@AC8178EC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:17 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:56:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:57:53 add^_ [~add^_^@h66n8c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:13 *bandu* appears 20:03:13 It's awfully quiet here.. How.. unusual. 20:04:03 everybody is busy writing lisp 20:04:50 or fixing bugs 20:06:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-131.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:06 :-/ 20:07:18 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-133-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:11:26 back! Going to try to figure out how the stuff in node.lisp winds up as executable machine code in sbcl :D 20:14:22 i'm just wondering why I lost 8 years of my life studying for something that's... well, not what I wanted, I guess :\ 20:15:09 20:15:11 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-towxyiswkcangmme] has joined #lisp 20:15:12 mmm might be faster to see what COMPILE does instead of working up from a segment. 20:15:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-25.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:30 searching for a working example of RESTfull API using hunchentoot 20:17:36 haha there is a function called ACTUALLY-COMPILE :D 20:18:05 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.80.175.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 20:21:44 and very cool, I just descovered a use for FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION by reading sbcl's code :D 20:22:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:22:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:26:03 ASau [~user@95-24-229-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:26:39 node.lisp ? 20:26:56 src/compiler/node.lisp yes 20:27:20 now I'm looking at src/compiler/main.lisp as M-. took me there ^-^ 20:31:36 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:35:51 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.80.175.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:36:46 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-179-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:36:59 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0d29.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:14 lisper: what are you trying to do? 20:37:38 just poking around seeing how things work :) 20:38:01 if you want to learn more about SBCL's compiler internals, you might read http://insidelisp.blogspot.com/ 20:38:08 I figured out how to use sb-assem: yesterday to make my own segment :) 20:38:14 i haven't read it, though it can't really vouch on its quality 20:38:23 at the bottom it's all black magic, trust me 20:38:42 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:50 so now I'm just curious how to turn my segment into a component and maybe into a function, just for the heck of it 20:39:08 what do you mean by "segment"? 20:39:11 lisper: it works better the other way. 20:39:15 a piece of code? 20:39:16 Write a VOP. 20:39:41 if you want to write your own VOPs and get them used, see sb-rotate-byte contrib 20:39:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:59 lisper: if you just want to jump into binary code, you don't want to go through the compiler machinery at all. 20:40:00 it's quite simple to understand 20:40:02 pkhuong well I'm just trying to see how it all works. Get a mental picture :) 20:40:46 careful, you might end up becoming an sbcl hacker 20:41:20 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:43:52 This is a cool article on that blog: http://insidelisp.blogspot.com/search/label/ir1 20:44:11 you need to start at the beginning 20:44:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:47:53 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.80.175.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 20:49:42 lisper: most people who try to grasp the big picture of how SBCL compiles get lost in the details 20:50:18 a good starting point is CMUCL implementation notes, and the paper on python 20:50:46 http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~ram/pub/lfp.ps 20:51:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:53:33 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:54:07 didnt get the idea why a lisp compiler in python. 20:54:15 why not haskell or lisp itself? 20:54:31 Python is a compiler for Lisp. It's not related to the language Python. 20:54:54 soo, http://www.cl-foundation.org/ looks like we have another alu 9-; 20:54:55 very unfortunate naming:( 20:55:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@host40-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:55:28 v0|d: yes, this Guido didn't think what he was doing 20:55:29 v0|d: except the compiler was there first (: 20:56:21 antifuchs: too bad the light-bulbs aren't animated gifs 20:57:08 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:12 my laptop can cook an egg just now. 20:57:16 and what does ACLU mean? American Civil Liberties Union? 20:57:33 Association of CL Users 20:57:36 antifuchs: how'd you find that? 20:57:50 very unfortunate naming! 20:58:18 Awesome Common Lisp Underdogs? 20:59:06 stassats`: did you know that wikipedia deleted page about core-server because it is too General? 20:59:27 naming is very though nowadays. 20:59:29 *antifuchs* whistles innocently 20:59:45 you got the inside info 21:00:12 it's referenced from http://weitz.de/eclm2011/ 21:00:48 ahh, there you go 21:01:00 public after all 21:03:54 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-254-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:04:08 -!- rolando [~user@159.29.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:05:45 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:30 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.80.175.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: ship o'hoi] 21:07:31 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 21:07:45 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:10:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:10:38 LiamH [~healy@12-146-45-147.guest.alyeskaresort.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:59 is there a better/more-preferred way to ignore the current lexical scope than EVAL? 21:18:17 why would you? 21:18:23 nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:25 why would I what? 21:18:37 oGMo: get rid of lexenv? 21:18:38 do what you asked 21:19:00 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-165-1.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:28 If you're writing a macro, the usual way to avoid collisions with the lexical scope is GENSYM 21:19:34 ah, because i'm defining a "quick and dirty" dsl-definition package using macrolet and i don't want to inherit existing stuff 21:21:26 oGMo: try this: (eval form) => (funcall `(lambda () ,form)) 21:21:30 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-171-210.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21:42 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:21:56 also eval takes care of evaluating macros, but 21:22:04 very wierd code you write. 21:23:27 acelent: which would be the same as just form 21:23:55 stassats`: ok, form is an expression that returns a form 21:24:26 acelent: right. 21:24:27 i could just ignore the issue, have anything-goes, but i figured i'd at least try :P 21:24:43 acelent: i thought the question was about evaluating in the null lexical environment, not just getting rid of eval 21:24:57 right 21:26:01 the lambda expression is probably desired if the form is to be evaluated multiple times, because it can be compiled 21:26:34 but yes, both evaluate in a null lexical environment 21:26:54 they do? 21:27:07 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 -!- ells [~Adium@c-107-3-238-180.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:27:23 acelent: really? 21:27:25 anyone know where the configuration file for clisp is in ubuntu? or the equivalent of .clisprc? 21:27:38 can you even funcall a quoted form? 21:27:43 (macrolet ((boom (&body body) `(funcall (lambda () ,@body)))) (let ((x 10)) (boom x))) => 10 21:27:58 ops 21:27:59 oGMo: i assume that was a macro 21:28:17 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:33 oGMo: i think if you employ macro's you should not need eval at all. 21:28:37 stassats`: if so, what you posted heh 21:28:39 of course this is a generic assumption. 21:28:55 v0|d: in a null lexical environment? 21:29:08 you want to escape the lex-env by using macros? 21:29:14 how do you do that? 21:29:20 you can turn lambda into a function (funcall (compile nil `(lambda ()))), that will have a null-lexenv 21:29:21 ehu: once generated symbols are used as local, there will be no capture at all. 21:29:26 but that's the same as doing EVAL 21:29:30 stassats`: (lambda ...) is different from `(lambda ...), in that the first expands to (function (lambda ...)) 21:29:33 v0|d: the idea is that if i define, say, a dsl for HTML, you can't (head (title (head ...], for example 21:29:37 ehu: no worry about lexenv right? 21:29:43 (in fact, i didn't check if (funcall 21:29:44 acelent: what are you trying to tell me? 21:29:51 `(lambda ...)) works... 21:30:01 it does not 21:30:42 oGMo: didnt get the idea soryr. 21:30:50 oGMo: i you need html dsl i can provide one. 21:30:51 v0|d: my description was poor 21:31:10 stassats`: i'm trying to say that (forget funcall) (compile nil `(lambda () ,@body) where one of body is (boom ...) shoudln't expand boom 21:31:11 v0|d: i don't, i'm using html as a common example 21:31:28 oGMo: make them first class objects then. 21:31:35 oGMo: then define functors over your structures. 21:31:37 oGMo: http://labs.core.gen.tr/#domprogramming 21:31:52 that seems overengineered 21:32:12 oGMo: nope. you can read more about functional programming and see why it is not. 21:32:15 or... just forget it :) 21:32:16 acelent: yes, COMPILE compiles in a null environment, but the question was about a preferred way, not a disguised EVAL 21:32:22 stassats`: true 21:32:43 v0|d: functional programming isn't my goal here either heh 21:32:48 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05F48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:07 oGMo: ok np:) 21:34:22 anybody know something like unmake-instance, ie the duel of make-instance. 21:35:04 what does that mean? 21:35:49 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:35:50 i think he wants C++'s delete 21:35:53 like say you have an object and (unmake object)=> (list #'ctor :initarg1 value1 :initarg2 :value2..) 21:36:17 reinitialize-instance ? 21:36:22 v0|d: what does 'unmake' do? 21:36:30 so that i can to (let ((a (unmake object))) (apply (car a) (cdr a))) 21:36:43 what are you trying to do? 21:36:46 to make a copy? 21:37:06 stassats`: trying to define some morphism over clos structures. 21:37:27 fe[nl]ix: hey, hi, long time no see:) 21:37:38 *stassats`* is buzzword-intolerant 21:37:50 basically, i want to walk some structure defined by clos and build a new one. 21:38:11 antifuchs: it was an occasional topic at ILC 21:38:20 v0|d: what's stopping you, except poor terminology? 21:38:40 MOP provides all the means for class introspection 21:38:52 stassats`: i agree the introspection. 21:39:03 Xach: yeah, I remember it being a topic at ilc07, too (: 21:39:04 i'm just asking if anybody has already done it. 21:39:27 done what? i've done copy-object 21:39:40 -!- nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:39:41 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:41 you cannot do copy-object over recursive data structures. 21:39:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78.185.216.43] has joined #lisp 21:39:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78.185.216.43] has quit [Changing host] 21:39:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:39:52 -!- LiamH [~healy@12-146-45-147.guest.alyeskaresort.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:00 you can, if you need to 21:40:06 v0|d: print it readably and read it back? 21:40:06 nested data structures need catamorphisms. 21:40:17 hello v0|d :) 21:40:25 Xach: it seems that everytime there's an ALU general assembly, people start talking about its dissolution (: 21:40:32 can you use english, not greek? 21:40:39 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8178EC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:40:57 stassats`: hehe sorry. it's the formal name in category theory. 21:41:32 stassats`: see http://labs.core.gen.tr/#domprogramming 21:41:35 ops 21:41:40 stassats`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catamorphism 21:41:50 LiamH [~healy@12-146-45-147.guest.alyeskaresort.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:55 thanks, but no thanks 21:42:28 you can observe that, once you are travesing a graph structure, you need to memorize each object that you visit. 21:42:42 otherwise, you are in an infinite loop. 21:43:03 v0|d: what is the actual problem you are trying to solve? 21:43:15 my problem is not related with that. i want travese a traversible structure and create a similar structure. 21:43:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-27-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:43:30 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:39 which is in fact a isomorphism in most of the cases which has 1-1 correspondence. 21:43:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78.185.216.43] has joined #lisp 21:43:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78.185.216.43] has quit [Changing host] 21:43:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:43:44 v0|d: i don't see a problem in that 21:44:18 problem is i do not want to define where the structure recurses in my travesing function. 21:44:31 i just want them to be defined in the structure itself. 21:44:43 yet i want to be able to travese graphs not just trees. 21:45:02 then do so. 21:45:08 but, what are you _really_ trying to solve? 21:45:28 stassats`: the problem that you have too much time on your hands? :-) 21:45:34 exu0 [~u@dslb-088-067-144-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 -!- exu0 [~u@dslb-088-067-144-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:45:42 why do you need to perform any mumbo-jumboisms on your structures? 21:45:46 he is trying to solve the problem of applying category theoretical babble to Common Lisp, which is proving difficult because Common Lisp is a reasonably babble-resistant environment to work in. 21:46:47 zfx: be nice please. 21:47:20 stassats`: im trying to build a security framework. 21:47:22 I am being nice. you should see me being nasty. 21:47:24 :) 21:47:39 stassats`: there are objects that belong to certain roles. 21:47:59 *stassats`* loses all interest 21:48:05 that's too abstract to me 21:48:11 i want to switch from a travesable structure to another 21:48:18 stassats`: hm ok np:) 21:48:27 the only winning answer is "i'm trying to do X and Y is how you solve it" for me :p 21:48:27 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-168-188.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:49:00 v0|d: "switch"? 21:49:18 serichsen: i mean morphism 21:49:27 i dont know how to explain morphism. 21:49:35 v0|d: What do you have? What do you want to produce? 21:49:58 i have a travesable clos structure and i want to create a new one similar to it. 21:50:33 v0|d: "similar"? 21:50:36 what's wrong with the original one? 21:50:54 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:02 stassats`: you can image view's of a table. 21:51:23 .o(Is that a sentence?) 21:51:26 stassats`: you are engineer now, you see a view designed for you, another view is needed for administrator. 21:51:32 sorry. 21:51:37 s/image/imagine/g 21:51:54 Ah, "views", not "view's". 21:52:04 serichsen: :p 21:52:06 but views are created by hand, why don't you do the same with your new-structures? 21:52:34 stassats`: i do not want to create them by hand. just want a formal method to define them. 21:52:44 v0|d: OK, so what does "traversable" mean for you? 21:52:54 he has a recursive structure. he wants something to walk that recursive structure. he doesnt want the function that does the walking to know which slot in the structure is recursive. he wants that to be defined in the structure itself. 21:53:02 is that a fair characterization of your problem? 21:53:06 data Tree a = Leaf a 21:53:06 | Branch (Tree a) (Tree a) 21:53:12 similar to this one. 21:53:18 Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has joined #lisp 21:53:46 v0|d: oh wait, so you just want different access to class slots based the current user? 21:53:52 zfx: i can introspect and see where the structure recurses. it's not a problem. 21:54:05 stassats`: similar to that. 21:54:09 v0|d: What language is that? 21:54:13 serichsen: Haskell 21:54:17 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:54:30 v0|d: Is "Branch" a special keyword? 21:54:40 serichsen: no it's just the name of the constructor. 21:55:08 serichsen: you can do Branch (Leaf 1) (Leaf 2) which has the type Tree Integer 21:55:37 serichsen: cf. algebraic data types, if you really care. :) 21:56:06 zfx: wonderful. 21:56:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:57:12 so if i have an umake i can use it to apply to root of my structure 21:57:30 then i can apply some f to all slot values then make another object. 21:57:55 the resulting structure will be very similar and two structures will be isomoprhic. 21:58:12 one for the engineer one for the functional programmer. 21:58:42 v0|d: OK. In other words, a "tree" is either a "leaf" or a "branch". You want a function to discern between "leaf" and "branch". 21:59:16 serichsen: i can have that seperation via method dispatch i think. right? 21:59:22 yes 22:00:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:16 depending on how you have defined them. 22:00:26 if i have tree, then this would be easy i suppose. 22:00:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:51 all i need is an unmake and a mapcar to apply an f to slot values then re-make-instance. 22:00:59 "unmake"? 22:01:17 stop trying to write Haskell in CL. 22:01:39 serichsen: (unmake an-object)=>(list 'ctor :slot1 slot1 :slot2 slot2) 22:01:45 Basically something that takes an instance and returns a form that, if eval'd, would return a copy of the instance. Apparently. 22:01:48 zfx: i'm not doing it. 22:01:58 zfx: just employing simple ideas. 22:02:15 v0|d: The simplest thing for your tree would be to leave CLOS aside and build it from cons cells. 22:02:21 Bike: exactly, thank you. 22:02:44 serichsen: i'm needing clos since we do not parametric polymophism in CL. 22:02:51 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:01 err, we have, i mean. 22:03:20 But then, this copy, it would also have copies of any "recursively" linked instances, yes 22:03:22 *? 22:03:25 v0|d: do not confuse types and classes. 22:03:31 interestingly method dispatch is faster than funcall in CL. 22:03:45 btw, CLOS is part of CL, in case you didnt realize. 22:03:52 v0|d: how did you measure it? 22:03:56 this sounds like you're trying to find the pedals so you can drive english and write a novel 22:04:10 Bike: yes 22:04:23 Bike: that's why i've been thinking about graphys. 22:04:39 So I'd frame what you want as something like COPY-INSTANCE-RECURSIVELY, not "unmaking" an instance. 22:05:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-135.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 22:05:21 Bike: similar to that but i want to be able to modify constructor runtime. 22:05:25 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-135.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:28 Bike: similar to that but i want to be able to modify constructor runtime. 22:05:42 What do you mean by "constructor runtime"? 22:05:42 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:51 Bike: just like in fmap 22:06:10 That is a Haskell thing? 22:06:13 surprise! 22:06:19 Bike: copy-instance just uses the same constructor like make-instance 'same-class 22:06:31 i want to modify that like make-instance 'some-other-class 22:06:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123719 22:06:58 basically, i want this f to be a parameter. 22:06:59 v0|d: you can modify copy-instance creatively 22:07:06 easiest solution: save the initargs that you used to construct the instance in the instance, then retrieve it 22:07:20 in accessors, alter the initargs plist using (setf getf) 22:07:26 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-towxyiswkcangmme] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:31 So wait, you don't want a copy of the instance in the same class, you want an instance of a completely different class? 22:07:36 and what i pasted is "unmake" 22:07:43 stassats`: wonderful thanks. 22:08:05 stassats`: i must admit i never use loop. 22:08:22 Bike: yes 22:08:27 Bike: i want something different 22:08:52 I feel a bit like in AbstractFactoryManagerFactory land, just on the other side of the planet. 22:09:40 serichsen: come on:) 22:10:05 "what I need is a monoid in the category of endofunctors" 22:10:27 pft, duh. 22:10:30 zfx: ah, you should've said that right away! 22:10:50 zfx: yes, my need is just an endofunctor. 22:11:00 greek is so much more expressive than english 22:11:01 but i'm not sure that you know about endofunctors. 22:11:09 zfx: do you? 22:11:20 sure. 22:11:29 zfx: ok:) 22:11:33 but did you get my joke? 22:11:47 zfx: yeah, it's a very old one. 22:12:59 Isn't that just a make-foo-from-bar? 22:13:18 serichsen: yes, but a generic one that works on all clos objects. 22:13:28 err, clos structures. 22:13:32 isn't that just MAPCLASS? 22:13:36 object doesnt mean any recursion. 22:13:39 what's a clos structure? 22:14:02 stassats`: that some slots have other clos objects. 22:14:17 v0|d: Could you provide an example of a bar object and an example of a foo object you want to build from it? 22:14:20 so, what of it? 22:16:00 Hrm. Sorry, have to be off to bed 22:16:34 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f763dd9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:18:05 hm paste.lisp.org is broken. 22:18:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-38.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:18:33 pnq [~nick@AC81FA8E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:34 maybe it's upset about what you're trying to do. 22:18:47 seems fine to me. 22:19:06 maybe it's just morphing 22:19:42 nope 22:19:54 when i submit, empty page is displayd. 22:20:19 (defclass+ Tree () 22:20:19 ()) 22:20:19 (defclass+ Leaf (Tree) 22:20:19 ((value :initform :value))) 22:20:22 (defclass+ Branch (Tree) 22:20:25 ((right :initform :right) 22:20:28 (left :initform :left))) 22:20:29 don't paste into the channel! 22:20:31 ops. 22:20:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123723 22:20:45 sorry about that. 22:21:02 btw, dont select the #lisp channel, it doesnt work. 22:21:09 it does 22:21:16 you created three pastes 22:21:28 stassats`: it never showed any of them to me. 22:22:00 maybe your browser is written in Haskell and they didnt figure out certain page structures at compile-time. 22:22:09 I think you mean :initarg, not :initform? 22:22:24 Bike: yes. 22:22:29 zfx: :)) 22:22:37 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-40-28.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:41 zfx: probably, someday i'll have my browser written in haskell. I hope that. 22:26:21 stassats`: what is mapclass? 22:26:34 whatever you want it to be 22:27:44 ok, here is the structure. 22:28:03 assume i have a tree like Branch (Leaf 1) (Leaf 2) 22:28:20 i want a function that create just (1+) like Brach (Leaf 2) (Leaf 3) 22:28:27 how can i write such a function? 22:29:00 open a new lisp buffer in emacs, and start writing 22:29:53 stassats`: you can donate me new ideas, i'm sure. 22:31:13 (defun map-tree (function tree) (loop for elt in tree collect (typecase elt (cons (map-tree function elt)) (t (funcall function elt))))) 22:31:19 (map-tree #'1+ '((1 (2)))) => ((2 (3))) 22:31:46 stassats`: ok how can we generalize that one to work on clos objects not lists? 22:31:53 stassats`: where should i change? 22:32:07 that is left as an exercise to the reader, as it is trivial 22:32:10 v0|d: integers are clos objects. 22:32:27 pkhuong: not from my point of view sorry:) 22:32:41 you just need to come down from your abstract ivory tower and write some concrete code 22:32:43 v0|d: you musn't be programming in common lisp then. 22:32:52 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:05 you can rephrase "standard-objects" 22:33:28 stassats`: he wants one function that can take any "container", apply 1+ to those values, constructing a new "container" containing those new values, whether that container is a list, a tree, a CLOS object, etc. 22:33:57 zfx: perfect. 22:33:57 that can take -> that can open up 22:34:08 that is what he means when he says "morphism" 22:34:12 map-tree doesn't work on self-referencing lists, either. 22:35:11 -!- peearr [~ACummings@159.153.4.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:35 Bike: yes, that's why i was excluding graphs. 22:35:41 Bike: i'll think them lates. 22:35:44 zfx: (defgeneric fold (foldee folder)) . Code the rest. 22:35:46 s/lates/later. 22:36:48 pkhuong: http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Data-Foldable.html 22:36:57 pkhuong: is this it? 22:37:14 that doesn't look like lisp to me 22:37:49 stassats`: be sure, it is lisp. 22:38:02 stassats`: don't capture lisp as common-lisp. 22:38:15 v0|d: that's what we do here. 22:38:20 uh oh, another can of worms just got opened. 22:38:54 why not ask for hygienic macros next? 22:39:08 pkhuong: i respect what you do. 22:39:29 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:39:43 this channel is about common lisp, not about abstract concepts in abstract languages 22:40:51 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 22:41:19 -!- LiamH [~healy@12-146-45-147.guest.alyeskaresort.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:25 stassats`: paste.lisp.org is not working btw, sorry. 22:41:43 why are you telling me that? 22:42:09 zfx: what do you think? 22:42:27 no time to think, write some code! 22:42:30 add^_^ [~add^_^@h225n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:34 zfx: is it possible define a fmap over clos classes? 22:43:28 probably. 22:43:41 v0|d: of course. Why wouldn't it be? 22:43:46 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h66n8c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:46 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 22:43:50 Just write the methods you need. 22:44:07 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:44:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:44:16 v0|d: i showed you how to get slots of an objects, i showed you how to apply a function to a tree 22:44:19 pkhuong: i want to build somthing generic, its pain to rewrite all that dispatch layer again. 22:44:23 you have all bits and pieces 22:44:40 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has left #lisp 22:44:48 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 22:44:50 oops. 22:45:03 stassats`: thnx, but they'r not what i'm looking for. 22:45:11 v0|d: that's an enabler of bad design. 22:45:56 v0|d: you should employ your ingenuity to transform them into what you're desiring 22:46:19 so much emotions on #lisp today. sorry i've triggered them. 22:47:35 pkhuong: how expensive is doing a make-instance when compared to a cons? 22:48:56 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:49:25 fairly. 22:49:47 1 to 10? 1 to 100? 22:49:50 tfb_ [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:51 -!- tfb_ [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:03 just time complexity would be enough. 22:50:55 it's at least two allocations, and the constructor is out of line, the allocations are larger and there are more slots to initialize. 22:51:51 make-instance on constant argument will have the constructor inline 22:53:05 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h225n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:53:09 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:53:24 pkhuong: oh thanks for this info. 22:53:35 pkhuong: may i bother you with my poor problem about macros? 22:53:37 stassats`: not here. 22:53:54 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:54:04 pkhuong: http://labs.core.gen.tr/repos/core-server/src/class+/lift.lisp 22:54:23 pkhuong: my defmethod/lift macro says that it cannot find the generic function during compilation. 22:54:26 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:38 pkhuong: i've wrapped it as `(eval-when but dont work. 22:55:22 pkhuong: i know that i can use compute-applicable-methods-using-classes at :load-toplevel, right? 22:55:28 no clue. 22:55:39 hah, wonderful! 22:55:45 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:55:51 didn't i explain to you the problem? 22:55:52 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-208-44.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 22:56:20 stassats`: err no. you told me to read more about eval-when. 22:56:34 and i did. 22:56:42 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:50 i said "read more about macros" 22:57:12 stassats`: macroexpand's second return value is null in my case. 22:57:40 so it shouldnt be evaluated more unless second stage. but they'r expanded somehow. 22:58:00 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@32.168.132.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:31 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:59:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:03:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 23:08:32 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:11:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:27 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 23:27:53 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:31:50 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:54 LiamH [~healy@12-146-45-147.guest.alyeskaresort.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:53 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:37:57 I made myself a simple CLAMBDA :) 23:41:39 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:17 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:29 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-66-30-3-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:08 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:16 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e947.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:28 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:51:12 What is a clambda? 23:51:56 it's what they put on your wheels if your implementation sits in a red zone for too long 23:52:00 sb-c::clambda 23:52:39 it's a lambda, see? \end{lamejoke} 23:52:40 now checking out VOPs :) 23:53:17 one thing in sbcl I like is how MISSING-ARGS is used :) 23:54:22 and somehow I found myself in pcl land 23:55:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:41 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-162.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:48 -!- benny [~benny@i577A10EE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:56 kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp