00:00:03 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:04:37 zmv_ [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:07:58 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:14:06 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.217] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:14:59 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 00:16:59 chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:21:21 ympbyc1 [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:21:39 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:23:43 zmv [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:26:09 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:53 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:28:33 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:31:08 -!- MeanWeen is now known as Daev 00:31:17 -!- Daev is now known as Deev 00:39:44 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 00:40:40 zfx [~zfx@host109-153-125-123.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:40 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-153-125-123.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:40:40 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 00:43:43 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:44:24 zmv [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:45:11 sacho [~sacho@87.246.4.214] has joined #lisp 00:46:58 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:47:04 (defun func () 1) (defun call-func () (func)) (flet ((func () 20)) (call-func)) 00:47:13 why is this returning 1 instead of 20 ? 00:47:43 zmv_ [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:48:11 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:49 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 00:50:08 kennyd: flet's scope is lexical, not dynamic 00:50:42 shame 00:51:01 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:51:21 any other way to do that? 00:53:41 Not out of the box. Pascal Costanza has some stuff for dynamically scoped functions. 00:54:15 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:05 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.135] has joined #lisp 00:55:27 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:55:52 kennyd: funcall the value of a special variable 00:56:44 Oh, and if you really want, you could abuse restarts. 01:00:00 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 01:04:09 zmv___ [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:05:14 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 01:05:35 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:05:36 anyone know what the rational was behind osicat:file-kind and sb-impl::native-file-kind returning different keys properties, e.g. :symlink vs :symbolic-link, :file vs :regular-file, :special vs {:pipe :socket :block-device :character-device }? 01:05:48 I wanted to do something nasty, but I thought of a nicer way to do it with specials and let 01:05:58 ^rationale? 01:06:30 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@200-161-255-70.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:09:51 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:09:54 -!- zmv___ is now known as zmv 01:11:15 mon_key: i doubt they were coordinated at all 01:11:15 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:13:17 Xach: I mean there was maybe _some_ crosstalk awareness, at least according to the docs in osicat/docs/posix-internals.txt Was it b/c the CMUCL stuff was already in place? 01:14:02 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:32 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:21 NM i'm confusing sb-posix/sb-unix with sb-impl -- they are different. 01:15:54 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:14 setmeaway 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[~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:34 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.135] has joined #lisp 03:35:06 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 03:35:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qobrffvvzrnebauo] has joined #lisp 03:35:19 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-skuktttcpissmjxd] has joined #lisp 03:37:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qobrffvvzrnebauo] has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:00 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:42:01 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:43:24 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has left #lisp 03:45:27 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-245-134.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:30 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-245-134.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:45:30 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 03:47:59 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 03:49:06 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:49:47 -!- drrho [~rho@chello213047112079.11.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50:18 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.117.130] has joined #lisp 03:55:21 irk 03:55:55 using elephant: (defpclass persistent-game () ... ) 03:56:14 results in the error: The variable PERSISTENT-GAME is unbound. 03:56:24 *tempire_* scratches head 03:56:50 *_3b* guesses you aren't actually using elephant there 03:57:17 <_3b> in wrong package, or forgot to :use some package, or forgot a package prefix 03:57:39 -!- fhifan84 [~fhifan84@c-68-32-6-137.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: fhifan84] 03:57:53 drrho [~rho@chello213047112079.11.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 03:58:08 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 03:59:22 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.13] has joined #lisp 03:59:54 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:00:26 you are correct 04:00:50 I quickloaded it, but didn't redefine the defpackage statement with :use :elephant afterwards 04:01:56 -!- cipher [~cipher@unaffiliated/cipher] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:20 *tempire_* is n00bin' out 04:02:25 *tempire_* dances 04:04:22 oooooooooox [~zzy.hit@118.26.196.188] has joined #lisp 04:04:24 turbofail [~user@c-67-169-97-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:52 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 04:08:00 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 04:08:53 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 04:11:11 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:23 billstclai [~billstcla@p-68-237-142-23.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:39 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 04:16:42 cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has joined #lisp 04:16:42 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has quit [Changing host] 04:16:42 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:18:43 -!- dnolen_ 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[~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kajrbqmpjrmylxkb] has joined #lisp 04:48:49 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:52 k9quaint_ [~quaint@c-24-4-97-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:00 ack_syn [~Jedi@unaffiliated/ackz0r] has joined #lisp 05:00:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 05:00:15 -!- chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:04:05 <_3b> hmm, sbcl LOOP BELOW declares the loop limit to be the same time as the loop iteration variable when a type is specified for that 05:05:14 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 05:05:14 *_3b* wonders if the spec has anything to say about that 05:07:38 -!- Puffy_tp is now known as PuffTheMagic 05:07:44 hi 05:07:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-238.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:01 <_3b> i guess it would be hard to implement it without the iteration variable being able to reach that value, even if it doesn't execute the loop body with it at that value 05:09:21 I am trying to evaluate the following expr: a * ( b - c ) + d * e, can I just (+a(*(b-c))+d*e), is it wrong? 05:09:50 <_3b> lisp uses prefix syntax, so probably 05:10:13 <_3b> (you could define functions and variables to make that valid code, but that would be a rather silly thing to do) 05:10:26 hum, right 05:10:47 <_3b> (+ (* a (- b c)) (* d e)) would be closer 05:11:00 *_3b* doesn't guarantee i got it exactly right though 05:11:08 right, I got it 05:11:16 ty _3b 05:11:22 ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:13:17 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:19 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:06 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:19:17 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:19:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:48 _3b: look, (+(* 227 227)(/(* 4 227)265)), my formula is b+(p*l/2) what's wrong? 05:20:30 ops 05:20:32 (+(* 227 227)(/(* 4 227)265) 2) 05:20:41 Start by using spaces properly. 05:21:11 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:30 ok 05:21:39 csdwifi [~csdwifi@CPE-76-177-215-56.natcky.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:21:55 Then fully parenthesize your formula. 05:22:08 Then move the operators to the start of each parenthesized section. 05:22:14 That's all there is to it. 05:22:20 ok 05:22:49 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:23:26 (+ (* 227 227) (/ (* (* 4 227) 265) 2)) 05:23:29 Zhivago: ty 05:29:23 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:31:18 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 05:32:10 -!- oooooooooox [~zzy.hit@118.26.196.188] has left 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[~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:29:20 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:33 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:35:15 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has joined #lisp 07:35:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:56 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.155.153] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:38:47 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kajrbqmpjrmylxkb] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:39:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-241-239.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:41:11 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-187-211.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:41:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-exooojrmupdezvdl] has joined #lisp 07:41:40 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has 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joined #lisp 08:04:39 -!- huawa [4b24ddd8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.36.221.216] has left #lisp 08:05:08 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 08:05:20 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has quit [Quit: be back later] 08:06:02 chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:06:21 huawa [~huawa@adsl-75-36-221-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:24 am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.189] has joined #lisp 08:06:50 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:23 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has joined #lisp 08:10:28 daniel__2 [~daniel@p5082B9A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:35 Anyone know how to use lisp to develop on qt platform? A good tutorial on CommonQT? 08:11:56 Or, possible clojure using qt-jambi? 08:12:31 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B326DB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:13:47 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has joined #lisp 08:13:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:33 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:15:12 -!- huawa [~huawa@adsl-75-36-221-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:15:17 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756d2b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:43 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:54 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.118.23] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 08:18:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:21:34 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-bmtcmaskrhwfhxaf] has joined #lisp 08:21:51 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.246.4.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:21:58 mishoo 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[~am0c@211.49.101.189] has joined #lisp 09:55:28 zfx [~zfx@host86-166-169-170.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:55:28 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-166-169-170.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:55:28 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 09:57:26 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:57:31 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:40 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 10:01:55 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.160] has joined #lisp 10:02:02 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.246.4.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:04:55 how can remove reference to key from a hash table? 10:05:02 clhs remhash 10:05:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_remhas.htm 10:05:12 thanks 10:06:29 There's something about generic programming questions that the nature of lispage means you can get good answers in here. 10:06:39 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:06:58 Itching to know the consensus on stuff like Windows Work Flow (or the concepts behind it) as useful methodology; but should probably wait until more people are on 10:07:55 Modius: any lisp function is a "generic" function: (defun f (x) (if (plusp x) (* x (f (1- x))) 1)) works on integers, ratios, reals. 10:08:24 No need for any f.....g template or , etc. 10:08:35 pjb: ? 10:08:50 Lisp programming is generic programming. 10:08:54 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:57 pjb: but I can't do (defun ((x fixnum))) (defun ((x cons))), so it's not entirely the same 10:09:01 pjb: I meant programming questions in generic areas 10:09:31 flip214: s/defun/defmethod/ 10:09:40 Modius: then write that. 10:09:46 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:46 pjb: yes, that's possible 10:09:54 Is pjb a bot? 10:09:59 but not with defun, that was my point 10:10:03 Modius: we're not sure yet. 10:10:13 it's almost turing-complete, and even writes emails ;) 10:10:32 flip214: defining different methods is not generic programming. Generic programming is when you write a single code that can work for different types. 10:10:50 pjb: I didn't actually ask a question, I commented this is a good place to get answers. 10:11:05 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:11:13 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 10:11:19 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:14:23 Pedantic ones at that, apparently. 10:18:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:20:17 if you dont like pedantry, you must have a pretty hard time programming computers. 10:21:42 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:26:03 Who said I didn't like pedantry? 10:26:24 just a hunch. :) 10:29:51 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:20 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:35:52 -!- csdwifi [~csdwifi@76.177.215.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:36:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:24 -!- drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:51 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 10:43:17 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:44:38 littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:42 -!- littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 10:44:42 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 10:46:16 gigamonkey: this could be interesting: http://www.archive.org/details/Programm1984 10:48:05 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 10:49:25 gigamonkey: hi! 10:49:42 gigamonkey: how are you ? 10:51:01 Posterdati: are you mistaking me for being him? :-) 10:56:26 -!- zanea [~zanea@125-239-218-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:58:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:59:18 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:07 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC9706.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:32 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC9F31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:03:39 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:04:58 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:06:00 H4ns: ah, finally. :-) no meetup in berlin this month? 11:06:14 berlin is running out of month 11:06:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.117.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:21 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 11:10:09 pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:50 -!- dixon [~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:16 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:19:39 dixon [~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon] has joined #lisp 11:20:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:27:36 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:28:15 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:31:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:21 -!- ack_syn [~Jedi@unaffiliated/ackz0r] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:37:39 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:37:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:41:22 -!- billstclai [~billstcla@p-68-237-142-23.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:41:22 -!- billstclair [billstclai@clozure-C16F8FD9.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:42:41 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:55 vaaal [~vaaal@host240-152-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:43:14 halo 11:44:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:45:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-snglwdvdbusgzxyv] has left #lisp 11:46:47 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 11:47:55 pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:48:31 Xach, would you suggest the clos book of sonya keene? 11:48:48 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:50:08 vaaal: Yes. I suggested it yesterday, too. 11:50:09 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:50:38 Winston & Horn's "Lisp", 3rd edition, also has some CLOS material, though I didn't read it in detail and I don't remember anything about its quality. 11:51:01 The CLOS book is a great book with lots of information. 11:51:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:28 indeed 11:52:43 thank you, i didn't remember you suggested it yesterday, sorry 11:53:33 nefo [~nefo@221.234.38.36] has joined #lisp 11:53:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@221.234.38.36] has quit [Changing host] 11:53:33 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:54:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:56:20 vaaal: that's a skill newbies need to learn. Reading what appears on the screen. Error messages, documentation, irc messages. 11:56:50 vaaal: notice how the screen keeps the information in it as long as you want. This is not a television, this is a computer. You can scroll back and read again! 11:56:51 Ambriely [~jorixTZXL@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:57:21 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:57:29 it's like magic! 11:57:41 -!- Ambriely [~jorixTZXL@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:58 guys, you're missing the tags 12:01:15 pjb: mind your backlog size 12:01:45 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 12:01:46 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:56 z0d: mind the topic 12:02:22 my scrollback is only 4096 lines 12:02:59 z0d: you can increase the size of your mana pool pretty easily i'm sure 12:03:09 yup 12:03:12 the default is 1024 12:03:15 and some people log their conversations on disk 12:03:26 Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:03:34 me too 12:03:48 pjb, i really can't understand how could i read it again if i closed the windows.. 12:03:54 I have IRC logs from 1998 somewhere 12:04:17 i've no mirc or other... 12:04:28 so i don't save anything. 12:08:11 vaaal: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/2011-07/lisp-2011.07.21.txt has the discussion, and that site has logs in general 12:08:24 -!- chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:11:29 -!- vaaal [~vaaal@host240-152-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:29 pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:32 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:12:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 12:12:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:15:55 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 12:17:01 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:18:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:15 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87ed81.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:13 add^_ [~add^_^@h84n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:10 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:31:15 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.66] has joined #lisp 12:31:34 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.160] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 12:31:51 pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:08 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 12:36:13 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:12 littlebobby: no meetup this month - willem is on holiday and i'm recovering from this 4 month c++ job 12:37:54 H4ns: my condolences 12:38:17 littlebobby: no need, i'm really done with it as of today :) 12:40:34 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:27 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:44:14 pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:44 -!- dixon [~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:35 chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:48:07 dixon [~dixon@75-1.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:07 -!- dixon [~dixon@75-1.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:48:07 dixon [~dixon@unaffiliated/reikon] has joined #lisp 12:50:40 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 12:54:07 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:38 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 12:55:45 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:36 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:58:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:03:58 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-bmtcmaskrhwfhxaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04:19 sellout1 [~Adium@98.158.124.90] has joined #lisp 13:04:19 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:33 ack_syn [~Jedi@200.218.192.10] has joined #lisp 13:06:00 -!- ack_syn is now known as Guest29849 13:07:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:09:48 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.21.238] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:11:43 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 13:14:06 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:14:17 -!- kytibe [~kytibe@212.174.109.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:02 kytibe [~kytibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 13:16:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:44 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 13:19:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:34 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 13:27:45 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:34 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 13:30:13 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 13:31:09 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21B56.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:31:11 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:31:15 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:36:24 paul0 [~user@189.114.198.22.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:37:24 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 -!- paul0 [~user@189.114.198.22.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has left #lisp 13:41:36 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:46:19 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:10 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@98.158.124.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:52:27 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:54:15 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:59:18 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:41 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:00:13 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:52 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:51 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 14:08:49 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:08:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:40 -!- Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:00 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:39 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as Puffy_tp 14:12:51 Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:13:06 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 I'm interested to know what people here think of "Workflow" things like Windows Workflow. I ask here as I've seen intelligent discussion of language stuff before, as a lisper generally messes more with language concepts. 14:13:57 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:14:02 hello 14:14:11 *Xach* has never seen, heard of Windows Workflow or related tools 14:14:24 is it legal to attach (with attribution) CLtL2's? backquote implementation to a lisp? 14:14:26 hi 14:14:29 and then redistribute 14:15:04 zfx [~zfx@host86-166-169-170.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-166-169-170.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:15:04 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 I think CLtL2 is in the public domain at this point. 14:15:27 I suspect that you are unlikely to be punished for it. 14:15:33 but to be sure, ask a lawyer. 14:15:43 Modius: is that just another newfangled buzzword? 14:15:49 thank you 14:15:55 stassats: That's why I'm asking 14:16:18 Workflow Foundation has been around for a while. 14:16:30 I doubt it's very interesting, even for .NET programmers. 14:16:45 Zhivago: You're actually 50% of the reason I'm asking here - have you heard of Windows Workflow Foundation or anything like it, this "workflow" business? I am having trouble finding discussion of it in a programmer context - usually all I read is gushing over it from a managerware perspective. 14:16:45 Fade: it requires 70 years after the death of the author 14:17:32 but it will be extended further when it's time for mickey mouse to go public domain 14:18:07 -!- Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:40 felideon: They're driving it hard where I work now. I need to figure out whether it's something to suck up like the rest of the chronic idiocy there, or something that should be integrated into my core skills/understanding of all things programming. 14:19:30 So it's a kind of dependency based scheduler? 14:20:38 I hadn't heard about it until you mentioned it. 14:20:39 Zhivago: Somewhat, was wondering if in "programmer" circles it was acknowledged as some distinct area of comp sci or programming theory, or just wrapping up part of the logistics in a pseudo UI code organizer. 14:21:28 I just can't find anywhere with *programmers* putting it into perspective. 14:21:47 Dataflow, schedulers, planners. 14:21:58 rule engines. 14:22:01 Distributed coordination. 14:22:09 I generally use the file-system for that kind of thing. 14:22:09 the venn diagram of lisp and windows barely overlaps. 14:22:40 A file-system with an atomic rename operation is actually a good 90% solution. 14:23:46 The only thing I can think of that may or may not be similar, and a bit more generic, is another buzzword: BPEL 14:24:40 Then you just need something that understands the dependencies of a task and when they're satisfied schedules an agent to carry them out. 14:24:42 Definition of the MS one may be muddled if they use it as an umbrella term for packaging a bunch of their middleware together. 14:25:36 Also, I shouldn't judge this vs C# or code; but against their otherwise shifting all the business logic into sql sprocs. . . :( 14:25:42 http://www.developerfusion.com/article/84942/architecting-systems-using-windows-workflow-foundation/ 14:26:17 I think it looks like a nice manager-friendly graphical programming system for task coordination. 14:26:19 I can tell you from experience, there's a lot of ways you can take a monolithic app, split it up into separately deployable bits of scrap, and keep a lot of people on payroll to deploy and modify it anywhere it has to go. 14:27:26 Personally, I am a fan of linda tuple spaces. 14:28:19 This may share an "advantage" with SQL Sprocs - changes to logic in this, like Sprocs, will probably be allowed by eyeball, unlike C# which has the "disadvantage" of having to be tested by QA. 14:28:19 But with fat tuples realized as a structured pathname and an associated file. 14:29:03 I've learned a lot about how blurry "code" and "config" distinction can be - you could have the config be language and just shift most of the problem, and the fixes, to config people, release rules and logistics. 14:29:26 late binding. 14:29:32 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:31:07 Personally, I think that configuration should either be trivial command line arguments or code. 14:31:22 Anything in the middle tends to be half-arsed. 14:32:42 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:33:16 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:36:39 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:37:07 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:19 Is there a way to dynamically do what let does (wrt dynamic scope specifically)? 14:42:55 what do you mean? 14:43:08 unwind-protect? 14:43:22 I have a list of symbols I wish to be rebound dynamically before a piece of target code is called. 14:43:25 (let ((a 10)) (declare (special a)) ...) ? 14:43:29 That list of symbols can change throughout the lifetime of the program 14:43:33 progv? 14:43:37 clhs progv 14:43:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progv.htm 14:43:51 Rock on 14:44:15 How in the world would I have found that on my own? 14:44:22 Other than memorizing the spec 14:44:39 (Which I'm getting closer to all the time) 14:44:46 yes, you should memorize it 14:44:54 how do you think others knew about it? 14:45:37 Because they have crazy awesome minds with the ability to retain things like this? They're probably good at trivia too. 14:45:41 herbieB: by reading clhs. 14:45:57 herbieB: You are not on your own! 14:46:04 herbieB: just read clhs, it sticks to your neurons. 14:46:12 You have the combined brains of a million or more monkeys here in #lisp. 14:46:33 herbieB: if you write CL all the time, you don't need a crazy awesome mind for that 14:46:38 although it certainly helps 14:47:25 Oh sure, and I don't really ask the same question twice. now that I've used progv, even if I don't remember it specifically, I'll ahve the code where I used it and I tend to remember where I ran into problems previously 14:47:33 but i can't say that i ever used PROGV for anything 14:47:38 How do dynamic variables tend to be implemented in multithreaded lisp implementations? A threadlocal hash of all the list heads? Something completely different? 14:48:21 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:25 new bindings are thread-local 14:48:51 there are two basic ways to implement dynamic variables. 14:48:53 Aah - that'd work - so search the thread-local, then the base. 14:49:02 Deep binding is basically a stack/alist. 14:49:39 Shallow binding has a map from symbol to current binding, and a stack of unbinding actions. 14:49:56 Modius: http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/8.1/doc/multiprocessing.htm#wide-binding-1 14:50:06 that's how allegro describes their strategy 14:50:57 With deep binding, you just have to give each thread its own alist. It also makes sharing bindings between parent and child threads trivial if needed... and it's mostly an obsolete strategy. 14:51:44 So, you have to adapt shallow binding for multiple maps (one per thread). ACL has a map from thread to value in each symbol; SBCL has one from symbol to value in each thread. 14:52:58 Frankly, I'm not sure ACL's strategy is such a good idea now that they have real multiprocessing: unless they really pad out the thread->value entries, writes/bindings/unbinding will cause issues with false sharing. 14:53:57 Personally, I recommend not using threads. 14:54:10 It makes this problem go away. 14:54:14 Zhivago: this is due to shared memory, not threads. 14:54:33 if you don't program, you have even less problems 14:55:12 Threads are pretty much defined by shared memory. 14:55:15 (SBCL's is "interesting" in that it has a fixed (at build time) limit in the number of distinct symbols that can ever be dynamically bound in a given image) 14:55:18 Remove that, and you have processes. 14:56:10 francogrex [~user@109.130.197.200] has joined #lisp 14:56:15 And yet not so long ago you seemed to say that your preference of processes over threads was a matter of defaults, and that explicit shared memory between processes made sense sometimes. 14:57:34 There is no inconsistency. 14:59:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:01:18 xxxyyy [~xyxu@61.175.241.65] has joined #lisp 15:03:03 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.197.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756d2b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:42 urandom__ [~user@p548A20A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:47 add^_^ [~add^_^@h160n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:03 Sharing is Caring 15:14:47 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:11 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h84n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:11 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 15:27:34 CLISP says (= 1 0.99999999) is true. Is this spec'd, or implementation-specific? 15:28:10 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:43 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 espadrine`: it's what you need to know about floating point 15:30:00 Is there a requirement for the type of IEEE754 floating-point in use? 15:30:16 lakkris [kvirc@pool-71-164-245-134.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:27 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:32 -!- bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: I need my meds... >.<] 15:30:42 it's not a requirement, it's a limitation 15:31:01 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 15:31:27 -!- lakkris [kvirc@pool-71-164-245-134.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:10 apparently 19 = \inf 15:32:26 espadrine`: it's implementation specific, but everyone uses IEEE 754 (or something with the same spirit). 15:32:31 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:47 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-245-134.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:47 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-245-134.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:34:47 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 15:35:23 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:35:30 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 tomjerr [~tomjerr@110.139.6.119] has joined #lisp 15:36:44 hmm, (= 1 0.99999999d0) is nil 15:36:53 How do you convert to double? 15:36:58 clhs float 15:36:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_float.htm 15:37:00 clhs coerce 15:37:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 15:37:10 but you can't convert 0.99999999 to double 15:37:31 (because it's 1.0) 15:38:10 and (= 1 0.99999999999999999d0) => T 15:38:43 espadrine`: read . 15:39:13 "coerce" is interesting. I wonder how it's implemented 15:39:36 stassats: yes, loss of precision is irrevocable 15:39:48 -!- tomjerr [~tomjerr@110.139.6.119] has left #lisp 15:40:20 (defun coerce (x type) (case type (double-float (float x 1d0)))) 15:40:42 straightforwardly 15:41:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:36 HG` [~HG@p5DC05496.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:43 Didn't see that float function 15:41:54 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:41:56 this way 15:44:29 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A20A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:47:04 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:47:55 add^_^ [~add^_^@h243n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:33 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h160n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:33 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 15:54:05 -!- zmv 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add^_^ [~add^_^@h127n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:49:07 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h127n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:49:07 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 16:52:13 maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has joined #lisp 16:52:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 16:52:17 pnq [~nick@ACA36FDE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:26 any ideas how to get UTF8 characters in cl-ncurses? 16:54:42 Abandon all hope 16:57:14 maxigas: there are functions supporting wchar_t 16:58:46 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:59:32 is it possible to get a symbol of the current function (assuming it exists) in a generic way? 16:59:38 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:14 kennyd: No. 17:00:57 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:27 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:15 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:41 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:22 kennyd: function-lambda-expression might return something useful if you pass it the right thing, but there's no "current function". 17:03:36 ubii_ [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:05 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756d2b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:45 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:05:29 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:35 antifuchs not sure what you mean by that (that there's no current function) 17:06:13 what did you mean by "current function"? 17:06:18 I meant something like this: (defun foo () (#| get 'foo programatically #| ) 17:06:56 you can't do that with CL:DEFUN 17:07:08 and you shouldn't want to do that 17:07:27 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:08:16 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h127n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 17:09:41 varjag [~eugene@21.59.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:11:45 kennyd: I mean that there is no way to find out the currently running lambda form or defun or whatever. 17:12:02 hence, no "current function". 17:13:26 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:38 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:05 (defmacro defun (name args &body body) `(defun ,name ,args (flet ((current-function () ',name)) ,@body))) 17:14:10 Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@modemcable109.28-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 s/`(defun/`(cl:defun/ 17:15:04 have fun with the nasal demons (: 17:15:23 :P 17:15:26 also, it won't help you with functions that were defined before you overrode defun 17:15:41 there is no nasal demons, just that you don't need such a thing 17:16:48 antifuchs: that won't be a problem, since you can't call current-function in them without redefining them first 17:17:53 Hello all. is there a way to print out something when a client connects to swank? 17:17:55 indeed 17:18:00 aka motd 17:18:12 and obviously you can't get the caller or anything else that might make current-function useful 17:18:37 Shaftoe_: yes 17:18:55 stassats: redefining defun as a macro is prohibited by the standard, AFAICT 17:19:01 stassats: ah great. can you point me in the right dir? 17:19:10 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:12 stassats why you made current-function a function instead of a variable 17:19:25 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:40 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 17:19:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 17:20:04 antifuchs: I think the implication is that the first defun is not cl:defun. 17:20:24 antifuchs: also redefining a macro based upon something by the same name is probably going to have problems ;) 17:20:24 ah. 17:20:31 I misparsed the substitution expression 17:20:37 same 17:20:47 yes, you have to shadow the symbol or something 17:21:14 kennyd: Why do you want to do that, anyway? 17:21:38 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:21:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:23:01 Bike I wanted it for error reporting. redefining defun is probably not worth it though 17:24:08 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.0] has joined #lisp 17:25:16 I'm getting stack overflow with your code stassats when defining a function 17:25:52 and I did change `(defun to `(cl:defun 17:26:08 kennyd: you need to make sure that the first DEFUN is *not* CL:DEFUN. 17:26:10 you need to make sure your package shadows the cl:defun symbol 17:26:24 LiamH [~liam@static-74-41-58-26.dsl1.pco.ca.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:05 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:49 ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:19 anyone else know how I could have a server side motd from swank (each time a slime client connects)? 17:31:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:32:57 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:05 Shaftoe_: the "words of encouragement" are all elisp-side 17:33:05 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 I know, and that's not what I want to do. (Ideally, I Want to have a banner that clearly tells the dev which image they're accessing so there's no confusion) 17:34:16 I'm seeing some chatter on google about read-motd and some swank.motd.lisp file... 17:34:19 not sure where it leads though 17:34:42 anyhoo. I'll look some more 17:36:06 I believe slime has a post-connection hook 17:37:19 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:28 -!- maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has left #lisp 17:39:31 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 17:43:00 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 trigen [57d190d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 17:44:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA36FDE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:47 -!- Puffy_tp is now known as PuffTheMagic 17:46:37 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:46:41 -!- poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:46:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:46:52 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:50 tempire_ pasted "defpclass with elephant" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123439 17:50:03 at a loss as to why that error is happening. 17:50:22 elephant used internals. 17:50:23 though I did find some references on the internets implying elephant had a problem 17:50:38 Said internals have been yanked out in a refactoring commit some time ago. 17:50:46 Have they? 17:51:06 Last time I tried, I could not build elephant. 17:51:08 *Xach* tries again 17:51:13 so it's essentially useless with updated lisp? (specifically, sbcl) 17:51:26 *Xach* still can't build elephant 17:51:49 tempire_: until elephant is fixed. 17:51:52 tempire_: As far as I can tell, elephant is unmaintained. 17:52:41 hmm. 17:52:50 shame, particularly for the list for the web article 17:52:55 *lisp 17:53:06 guess that's what happens to 4 year old articles 17:53:31 what's the hipness for db interaction in cl, then? 17:53:51 There are a lot of options. 17:53:55 which of DB, ORM and persistence do you want? 17:54:59 Guthur [~Guthur@e6219.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 17:55:19 I'd like an orm with transaction support that works for sqlite, postgres, and mysql 17:56:08 CLSQL might fit the bill. 17:56:15 -!- Deev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:56:26 or the hungarian stuff? 17:56:46 what are some other popular options, so I can get an idea of what's available? 17:57:57 chillax + couchdb 17:58:04 *felideon* shills for sykopomp 17:58:14 felideon: how does that work with sqlite, pg or mysql? 17:58:48 pkhuong: bummer, I need to read full sentences. 17:59:33 felideon: it's cool, I'm trying to get an impression of all that's available 17:59:43 *tempire_* is looking for a cl library for riak 18:00:56 *sykopomp* was wrongly put on the spot! 18:01:28 between postmodern(pg) and chillax you have the best performance 18:01:47 rucksack is not bad but aggregigates could be faster 18:01:52 tempire_: regarding your previous statement, why all three (sqlite, pgsql, mysql)? 18:02:26 sykopomp: you're to blame! 18:02:39 lol 18:02:51 -!- xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:08 hello madnificent 18:03:14 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:20 hows your project coming on? 18:03:24 no particular reason. Just 'cause that's what I'm used to orms supporting. 18:04:14 tempire_: It's not like that for CL libraries. 18:04:16 I also don't know if CLSQL is what you would call an ORM. 18:04:38 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@e6219.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:06 hey Harag! long time no see 18:08:37 yeah been busy trying to find a db solution ;) 18:08:42 xan_ [~xan@adsl-99-191-73-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 Harag: I'm working on my thesis at the moment, but the planning is fairly good. there are some ohter coders whom will work on other parts of the project. with some luck I'll be able to free up enough time early on 18:09:16 Harag: have you received my /msg about fuseki and sesame? 18:09:27 nope 18:09:44 oh well, that explains why i didn't get a response :) 18:09:50 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:32 you gonna make me google it or are you gonna spill the beans!?!?! 18:10:58 in short, i needed a way to connect to a semantic web database with reasoning. my language of choice is obviously lisp, so i built a connection to fuseki. the communication layer uses sparql. i don't think it should be very hard to build an OO layer on top of that. 18:11:05 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-94.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 Harag: :P 18:11:28 ooooo 18:11:33 nice 18:11:46 thow sparql turns my stomach for some reason 18:11:59 it's not really ready for production, but i can mail you the curretn files if you'd like. it needs a development version of jsown and drakma 18:12:14 i understand... 18:12:19 kewl will look at it 18:13:07 if you have some time i can help you with an automatic clos layer. i don't mind writing the queries for whatever stuff you need, but I don't need it myself (and it would be against what i'm building atm), so i don't intend to write the layer myself 18:13:07 ran into jsown with chillax the other nite 18:13:43 *madnificent* should really toy with chillax + jsown when he has the time 18:13:54 harag: too XPATH like? 18:14:12 if you like mapreduce, then i assume you'll prefer that combination over fuseki 18:14:13 (i.e. SPARQL) 18:15:14 JuanDaugherty: mmm you might have a point there my experience with xpath ended bad in the late 1990's and have not gone back ther 18:16:13 w3c does well when they're codifying something that already exists, less so when they create by committee from scratch 18:16:54 madnificent: ssshh dont tell anybody but i actually like sql syntax ...been doing it for 20 years no so it comes natural but dont i am trying to move away form rdbms 18:17:21 -dont 18:18:14 *JuanDaugherty* has seen to whole cycle from prior to the dominance of SQL to the current nosql craze 18:18:29 indeed a roughly twenty year span 18:19:10 yeah. It sometimes feels like we're back to network databases ;) 18:19:15 JuanDaugherty: what was it called back then? 18:19:38 it was called SQL but it wasn't dominant as a data access lang 18:20:33 i some times wonder why they did not name noSchema instead of nosql...most of the sql syntax can still work for a lot of nosql solutions in my mind 18:20:51 there were competing 4GLs and other approaches to data access, SQL didn't become dominant until the early-mid 90s 18:20:58 JuanDaugherty: I wouldn't call SPARQL xpath-like (: 18:21:11 (I find xpath actually useful [-;) 18:21:33 i wonder how you were gonna spin that :) 18:21:37 *wondered 18:22:09 so both useful and pleasant/enjoyable to use? 18:22:22 xpath is pretty terse and geared towards getting things you know stuff about; sparql is more verbose and seems to be about giving you all the results you don't want 18:22:23 (-; 18:22:46 (disclosure: I'm ok with xpath & like it a bit; sparql just annoys the hell out of me) (: 18:22:58 *JuanDaugherty* hasn't used xpath enough to make a judgement. 18:23:08 which reminds me: I should go back to those theoretical results that show how datalog-style queries are in NL, and should thus be easily parallelisable (: 18:23:52 Harag: sparql is somewhat similar to sql. though I must admit that it doesn't go much further than the superficial syntax. did you get my /msg now? 18:24:00 Harag: I need your email address :) 18:24:09 processing xml with xpath is pretty nice. processing triples with sparql makes me wonder how author had altered their brain chemistry 18:25:01 Guthur [~Guthur@e6219.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:25:07 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:25:10 -!- LiamH [~liam@static-74-41-58-26.dsl1.pco.ca.frontiernet.net] has left #lisp 18:25:14 madnificent: yes got it was just pouring a drink 18:26:29 ah np, I thought something was going wrong 18:27:15 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:27:36 yeah something was going wrong...my glass was empty :P 18:28:33 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:41 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:36:52 has anybody done know about anything done in lisp with an "associative data model" or is layzysoft the only people that are using that model 18:37:07 ? 18:39:09 so i guess ARQ is the thing in fuseki corresponding to map/reduce? 18:39:29 JuanDaugherty: ARQ? 18:39:43 -!- yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:00 http://openjena.org/ARQ/ 18:40:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:12 pnq [~nick@ACA2DB07.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:19 Harag: the description of the associative data model in WP makes it sound like a column-based database. 18:40:53 like, for example, graph databases do... graph databases like allegrograph (: 18:40:58 antifuchs: in my mind its closer to a graph 18:41:13 snap 18:44:37 jdz [~jdz@host84-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:44:41 antifuchs: it was around before the current graph db's but as far as I know layzysoft had some kind of a patent so no wontder it is not used much 18:45:08 interesting 18:45:25 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:05 note: the last time i seariously looked into it was in 2001 one and then lazysoft wanted 40K$ for a server licence 18:46:05 are software patents really enforceable? 18:46:52 it was not a software patent as such 18:47:49 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 18:47:51 JuanDaugherty: depends on the country 18:47:54 the patent was based on some research done and some clever algo's if i remember right 18:48:25 madnificent, sounds like another reason to flee jesusland 18:49:17 software patents are not generally acknowledged out side the United States. 18:49:41 cyrillos__ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 18:50:22 sacho [~sacho@87-126-4-140.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 Fade, thx that's good to know! 18:51:21 -!- ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:52:26 I was working a lead from a guy who had a patent on somekina semantic search technigue 18:52:30 seek authoritative opinions in your legal jurisdiction if you actually have cause to know. :) 18:52:53 Fade: and still, they scare me 18:53:00 more of pitch than a technique, didn't really have any kind of actual algorithm or anything 18:53:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:29 and yet he'd spent serious bucks I take it to get the patent 18:54:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:10 seems like kina a 19th century kind of thing, not well adapted to these times 18:54:59 the patent read like gobbledygook, I think the lawyers ripped him off, but I think that about lawyers period 18:55:35 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.63] has joined #lisp 18:55:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-164-10.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:57:11 good night guys 18:59:11 ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:00:37 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:12 -!- cyrillos__ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:02:12 kennyd: Why do you ask the same thing as yesterday? 19:02:50 pjb pasted "function-names" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123441 19:03:00 same question -> same answer! 19:04:37 Now you only have to implement (current-function) and call (function-names (current-function)) :-) 19:05:00 KaZ- [~amirnavab@LRouen-151-73-7-240.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:05:48 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:49 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:27 vervic_ [~vervic@178-165-161-188.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 19:10:25 srPerl [d0a33366@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.163.51.102] has joined #lisp 19:11:25 pjb you must be confusing me with someone else, I did not ask that question before 19:11:41 -!- vervic [~vervic@178-165-167-222.dyn.orange.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:11:42 -!- vervic_ is now known as vervic 19:14:56 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 19:17:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:18:27 dto: What's up with your boston-lisp post? That looks like a private discussion. 19:18:47 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-94.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 19:21:39 yes, that's funny. 19:21:51 kennyd: then sorry. 19:22:27 -!- jdz [~jdz@host84-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:49 no problem 19:24:37 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:47 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:24 *Fade* newgroups comp.lang.lisp.kooks 19:32:00 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:01 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:35:18 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:28 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:02 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: zzz?] 19:40:19 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 19:41:50 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as Puffy_tp 19:42:52 -!- KaZ- [~amirnavab@LRouen-151-73-7-240.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:43:58 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 19:44:39 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:35 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:50:38 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 19:54:21 -!- sword [~user@76.115.88.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:18 -!- srPerl [d0a33366@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.163.51.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:59:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:07:29 Xach: do you think i should explain the context to the list in the same way i explained it to you? 20:07:38 might make sense 20:08:23 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-022-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:08:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-99-191-73-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:09:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756d2b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:25 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:09:47 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:55 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:00 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:57 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:14:08 -!- trigen [57d190d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:40 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:55 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:16:38 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05496.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:55 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:28 Xach: done. 20:20:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2DB07.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:03 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87ed81.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 20:23:08 this ciso LISP thing is ridiculous. 20:23:13 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 20:23:15 Fade: what? 20:23:21 ciso? 20:23:28 s/ciso/cisco 20:23:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIiBMZ86jZo&feature=player_embedded 20:24:33 Well, we renounced to LISP, didn't we? Now it's Lisp. 20:24:42 the name collision, not the tech. 20:24:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:58 That's what I'm saying: there's no name collision. LISP is free. We use Lisp. 20:25:16 well, our reader is upcasing by default, no? :) 20:25:25 Ok. 20:25:34 BTW, looking inside CheckPoint config files, you'll discover Lisp expressions 20:25:39 mostly pure data though 20:26:15 I wonder if it's a coincidence or someone on the team knows Lisp 20:26:39 There are several configuration files that are sexp based. Eg. in Xen. (despite the python layer). 20:27:41 indeed 20:28:28 yeah that's what you get in an industry structured like ours 20:28:30 And in proprietary applications, how do you recognize an Allegro or Lispworks executable? 20:28:52 with the typical "dp professional" being in essence a professional dilletante 20:28:58 Now, to have fun for good, implement LISP in Lisp. 20:29:28 most, but by no means all, of whom burn out or are driven out of the doing of programming in a few years 20:30:25 and in such a culture the number of persons who would take offense at LISP is apparently small enough for them to ignore 20:31:07 but yeah looks fugly stoopid from here 20:32:13 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:54 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:45:22 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:39 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-7-227.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:46:27 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:55 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@e6219.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51:54 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:45 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 20:54:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56:28 lacedaemon [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:57:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:57:39 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:58:11 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:58:39 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:59:23 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:29 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 21:01:11 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:01:46 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:41 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:56 pnq [~nick@ACA5644B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:02 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:04:58 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 21:06:02 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 21:06:40 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:06 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:52 hi 21:08:48 can i find popular card Games in Lisp ? 21:09:50 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 Whist ... 21:10:40 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:12:49 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:13:28 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-37-223.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:14:48 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:15 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.187] has joined #lisp 21:16:43 No idea ? 21:16:55 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 21:17:04 mistil [~miplon@65343hfc126.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:09 wuttup brohans 21:17:18 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:17:22 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 21:20:32 jdz [~jdz@host84-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:21:26 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 21:21:28 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:59 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:23:04 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:25:00 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:15 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:25:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:26:38 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:39 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 21:27:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:12 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:54 -!- vert2_ is now known as vert2 21:28:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@ip-84-42-184-176.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:28:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@ip-84-42-184-176.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Changing host] 21:28:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:29:46 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:23 urandom__ [~user@p548A2511.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:32 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:31:39 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:58 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:33:49 -!- ack_syn [~Jedi@unaffiliated/ackz0r] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:34:07 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:36:48 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 21:36:56 md1 [~user@188-167-100-241.dynamic.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 21:36:59 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:58 ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 21:38:03 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:41 Hi, any SLIME hackers around? I somehow lost the ability to copy presentations from inspector to the REPL. Copying from REPL works, but that's not very useful. I guess it happened when I started using Quicklisp for installing SLIME, but I am not sure. Should I fix that? 21:39:47 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:58 How should I fix the emacs config? 21:40:48 -!- ISF_ is now known as ISF 21:42:17 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 21:44:11 -!- varjag [~eugene@21.59.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:48:32 -!- md1 [~user@188-167-100-241.dynamic.chello.sk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:49:39 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:16 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:53:39 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:37 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:56:53 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 21:59:00 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-37-223.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:00:10 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:00:13 -!- ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:00 Krystof_ [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:36 -!- Xof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:03:16 timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-163.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 -!- Puffy_tp is now known as PuffTheMagic 22:04:01 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.57] has joined #lisp 22:04:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@ip-84-42-184-176.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:04:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@ip-84-42-184-176.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Changing host] 22:04:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:07:06 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:07:15 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:50 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:10 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:45 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 22:12:13 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-164-10.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:28 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:31 -!- jdz [~jdz@host84-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:55 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-160-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:13 everyman [~user@blk-224-153-99.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 22:19:43 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:21:47 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 22:23:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA5644B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:25:57 Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has joined #lisp 22:28:56 -!- Pirxs [~Pirx@195.225.69.9] has quit [Client Quit] 22:30:32 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:31:22 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:12 pnq [~nick@AC8409AB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-219.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:36:50 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:38:05 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:11 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:38:55 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 22:40:58 hey is there a lisp conditional like (unless COND BODY) that returns COND insteat nil if COND is true? 22:41:35 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:48 like (if t t nil) without having to write t twice 22:42:03 OR, I think 22:42:27 AND and OR return the last value that was non-NIL 22:42:50 ah yeah that might be what I am looking for 22:43:26 in (and a b) and (or a b) neither will return A 22:43:31 ah 22:43:39 aactually, OR will. oops 22:44:39 (if x x nil) is equivalent to x, not considering multiple return values 22:45:10 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-163.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:24 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:54 ack_syn [~Jedi@189.24.24.137] has joined #lisp 22:46:20 -!- ack_syn is now known as Guest65904 22:46:46 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 22:46:57 yes, I shouldn't have used nil in the alternative case, it does not make much sense like that 22:47:30 (if x x y) 22:47:53 == (or x y) 22:48:33 -!- Guest65904 is now known as ack_syn 22:48:35 -!- ack_syn [~Jedi@189.24.24.137] has quit [Changing host] 22:48:35 ack_syn [~Jedi@unaffiliated/ackz0r] has joined #lisp 22:51:09 timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-210.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:53:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:54 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:00:25 abeaumont [~abeaumont@130.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 23:00:44 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:12:08 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.39.247] has joined #lisp 23:13:46 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:17:20 -!- vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:29 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:18:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:19:09 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 23:21:38 ubii_mobile [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 23:22:29 -!- ubii_mobile [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:22:40 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:26:58 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:38 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:30 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:33:25 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:55 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 23:34:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8409AB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:35:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:36:41 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:37:19 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:37:21 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@modemcable109.28-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 23:37:44 zanea [~zanea@222-153-119-57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:41:05 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has joined #lisp 23:41:07 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:45 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:31 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.25.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:44:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:45:11 foioo [~frank@host252-13-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:45:24 hello someone can help me with prolog ? please i m gettin crazy 23:45:45 foioo: perhaps on #prolog? 23:45:54 But try anyways. 23:45:55 no one answer there... 23:46:18 the question is simple.. do not need to know a lot of prolog 23:46:37 i can ask to you ? 23:46:53 foioo: just ask 23:47:11 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:12 Enough with metaquestions! Strangely enough, while Lisp is all about meta programming, we don't like meta questions on irc. 23:47:27 i should write a predicate with the arity on the name exmaple p(x,y,z) => p_3(x,y,z) how i do this ? 23:47:50 Why should you do so? 23:47:57 p(x,y,z) is perfectly good. 23:48:04 my professor said i should do this ... 23:48:07 it defines a predicate named p/3. 23:48:14 your professor has bad ideas 23:48:17 Then do as he says. 23:48:33 But p_3/3 and p_2/2 are somewhat redundant. 23:48:43 this is just an example 23:48:48 p/3 and p/2 distinguishes already between p(x,y,z) and p(a,b). 23:48:51 in this case arity was 3 23:49:04 this was just an esample 23:49:20 when i have a predicate in input 23:49:35 i should change it in ... nameofthepredicate_arity 23:49:54 q(x) => q_1(x) ... 23:50:07 k(z,s,w,e) => k_4(....) 23:50:30 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:38 got it ? 23:51:02 so you must write a(q(X),q_4(X))? 23:51:08 so you must write a(q(X),q_1(X))? 23:51:41 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:51:56 i should write the predicate with the arity 23:52:03 a(k(A,B,C,D),N(X,Y,Z,T)) must give N=k_4, A=X,B=Y,C=Z,D=T ? 23:52:04 arity calculated on the input 23:52:28 I'm not sure it's possible in prolog. 23:52:29 -!- benny [~benny@i577A76D7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:52:31 k_4(...) , n_4(...) 23:53:08 o(q,w,e,r,t,y) should give... o_6(.....) 23:53:41 I don't believe prolog is able to take variables for predicates in terms. 23:55:48 prolog is first order logic only 23:55:56 ? 23:56:03 ?- a(N(A,B,C),M(X,Y,Z)). 23:56:03 ERROR: Syntax error: Operator expected 23:56:03 ERROR: a(N 23:56:03 23:56:06 no variable predicates 23:56:38 So you will have to encode q(x). For example as: [q,x] 23:56:43 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:56:54 a([N,A,B,C],[M,X,Y,Z]) :- ... 23:57:23 the problem is that i should append to name of the predicate 23:57:25 the arity 23:57:28 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:39 it is something like string processing on predicate 23:57:47 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:57:59 foioo: check the doc, there must be primitive predicate to build new atoms.