00:00:20 in the *.conf's of course 00:00:42 n1tn4tsn0k: What did you try? 00:02:15 to add path with slash in the end in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/swank.conf 00:02:28 n1tn4tsn0k: and then what did you do? 00:03:06 the / doesnt matter in this case 00:03:15 only if you use #P"" 00:03:28 Now I've tried with (push #P"/home/nitnatsnok/src/slime/" asdf:*central-registry*) and it worked. :) 00:03:32 at least this is my experience 00:03:37 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-216.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:24 Ok. It's one-time, I understand? 00:04:57 n1tn4tsn0k: i'm afraid i just arrived so i don't have full context. is there a reason you're not using quicklisp to get slime? 00:04:57 How to add it permanently? 00:05:17 source-registry.conf.d/swank.confNo 00:05:24 Omg. 00:05:40 is there a reason you're not using quicklisp to get slime? 00:05:43 No quicklisp. 00:06:20 Quicklisp is pretty handy if you want to use CL libraries (and slime) 00:06:25 ~/.eclrc 00:06:32 you can add that here 00:07:12 timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100214.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:20 mcstar: but why does not ~/.config/common-lisp work fine? 00:07:44 somehow your asdf is not configured to read that library 00:07:45 n1tn4tsn0k: how did you determine that it does not work? 00:07:52 look it up in the manual 00:08:12 Xach: (require 'asdf) (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'swank) 00:08:46 mcstar: I have no man for asdf. 00:08:56 n1tn4tsn0k: what do you get back from (asdf:initialize-source-registry)? 00:08:57 no, not the unix man 00:09:08 asdf manual, on its website 00:09:15 rvirding [~chatzilla@109.58.168.174] has joined #lisp 00:09:16 http://l1sp.org/asdf 00:09:34 Xach: Cannot find the external symbol INITIALIZE-SOURCE-REGISTRY in #<"ASDF" package>. 00:10:35 n1tn4tsn0k: ok, that means you are using a very old ecl 00:10:39 $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS maybe this isnt defined 00:10:41 try not doing that 00:10:59 :0 00:11:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:09 for me its 11.1.1 00:11:34 mcstar: do you see why now the *.conf stuff did not work? 00:12:32 not sure 00:12:37 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:41 is it old asdf too? 00:13:01 new ecl comes with asdf2 00:13:09 old ecl does not. 00:13:19 -!- scrimohsin [dink@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [] 00:13:37 well, i only heard of ecl, maybe an hour ago 00:14:37 We released ASDF 2 on May 31st 2010. 00:14:46 i didnt know its soo fresh 00:15:37 accursed sourceforge cvs is down 00:16:13 Xach: so do I just need to update ecl? 00:16:28 maybe your whole distro too :) 00:17:21 n1tn4tsn0k: why do you want to use ecl? 00:18:10 Maybe.. becuse I like it? :) 00:18:39 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100214.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:19:17 It is very compact and creates same compact standalone executable binaries. It is important for me. 00:19:32 That makes sense. 00:20:57 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@109.58.168.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:52 n1tn4tsn0k: what version were you using? 00:24:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:01 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:38:55 Xach: huh. I don't remember. :) 00:39:06 I've already updated it. 00:39:27 I was using version from debian repo. 00:40:37 Now I donwloaded the lastest one from sourceforge and built it. :) 00:41:37 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:03 Now swank is loading normally but slime doesn't works yet. :( 00:42:07 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 00:42:25 * work 00:43:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:57 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Client Quit] 00:46:34 2:45 here 00:46:44 i think im heading to bed 00:46:48 bb 00:46:53 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-11-210.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 00:46:55 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-98-64-83-200.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:28 Gnight. :( 00:47:29 (progn (load "/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp" :verbose t) (funcall (read-from-string "swank-loader:init")) (funcall (read-from-string "swank:start-server") "/tmp/slime.21425" :coding-sy\ 00:47:33 stem "iso-latin-1-unix")) 00:47:46 It's what emacs shows before an error. 00:48:19 I see there a fixed path. Not loading it from 'load-path. 00:48:25 slime shows that when it starts. 00:48:30 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:39 -!- rednum` [~user@cpc1-walt9-0-0-cust744.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:49:32 Bike: yes.:) 00:49:56 No, I mean it shows that when it starts successfully, on my machine, at least (with a different path) 00:50:37 But I heve slime in /home/nitnatsnok/src/slime 00:52:32 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:28 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:55:26 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:57:12 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:38 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:24 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:10 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:41 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:03:50 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:05:29 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:06:41 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:49 -!- ack_syn [~Jedi@unaffiliated/ackz0r] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:10 ack_syn [~Jedi@189.24.24.137] has joined #lisp 01:07:36 -!- ack_syn is now known as Guest77795 01:09:20 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:40 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:10:00 Bye 01:10:01 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.248.148] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:12:45 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:24 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:51 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:17:09 psilocide pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123324 01:17:22 psilocide annotated #123324 "Warnings and Error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123324#1 01:18:13 would anybody be able to tell me what I am failing to understand? Seems pretty standard by what the User-Guide and Spec say. 01:20:12 psilocide annotated #123324 "First Error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123324#2 01:24:48 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 01:25:20 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 01:27:37 pislocide: are you sure that the code you're loading is what you pasted? 01:31:36 pkhuong: I will try it again and post the error again. 01:31:48 -!- daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has left #lisp 01:32:49 psilocide annotated #123324 "Error on callback" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123324#3 01:33:30 pkhuong: you were right. I had been trying to set a nil list for the qualifiers, and other things that I wasn't too sure to try, but that is the original error I had from the get-go. 01:34:00 Looks like you have one argument too many. 01:36:25 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:51 daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 01:37:26 In (defmethod value-callback (text-field gadget-id) ... ) remove either text-field or gadget-id? 01:39:03 That seemed to be the trick. Thank you for the help. 01:46:37 ms123 [~Michael@modemcable128.220-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:48:04 Hello everybody! It's been a while I've been meaning to teach myself Lisp. Which (free) resource would you recommend for a complete beginner? 01:48:50 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 01:50:00 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:51:23 -!- jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 01:51:39 Xach: thanks :) 01:54:30 wow, xach! wigflip.com has a business model now? (-: 01:54:38 "You can put the poster on your website, or even get a print for just $9.95. A giant, 36" wide print is just $19.95!" 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[~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:05:02 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-212.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:07:28 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 09:09:20 good morning 09:12:22 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 09:12:39 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:13:27 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:27 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:22:51 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:51 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:22:51 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 09:28:40 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:29:58 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:31:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:31:50 mvilleneuve: hello 09:33:10 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:36:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:44 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:43:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:47:11 jacks- [~jacks-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 09:47:16 hello. is asdf system capable of running external program when it's being loaded? 09:47:27 Yes. 09:47:42 how? 09:48:24 Reading the manual, I'd guess. There are examples somewhere of asd system compiling C libraries. 09:48:46 Your quest won't be vain. 09:48:51 that's what I want, run make on every load 09:49:20 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:49:27 jacks-: see e.g. commonqt's qt.asd. it runs qmake or something. 09:49:38 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rusbohpudnpdhrrp] has joined #lisp 09:49:39 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rusbohpudnpdhrrp] has quit [Changing host] 09:49:39 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:50:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 09:53:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:54:16 got it thanks 09:54:17 https://github.com/ivan4th/commonqt/blob/master/qt.asd 09:54:39 it's just calling a function inside components 09:55:58 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 09:56:04 but this is a class inside the parens ... (makefile) and (cpp-so) are classes 09:56:17 you're right 09:56:27 (defmethod perform ((o compile-op) (c makefile)) 09:56:32 that's the magic, I think 10:04:09 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:26 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:30 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:06:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:09 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:20 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-syluhbuysoasisxg] has joined #lisp 10:18:18 -!- easyE [jsSwvtKTyd@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:18:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:20:07 Ambriely [~jorix72Tk@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:22:05 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:19 -!- Ambriely [~jorix72Tk@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:54 -!- Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:59 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 10:33:25 _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 10:33:45 Chrisuxo [~jorixoInj@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:33:54 <_6502_> hello... how can I read a double-float from a byte stream? 10:34:58 Presumably it depends on how it is encoded. 10:35:09 <_6502_> ieee754 double precision 10:35:14 -!- Chrisuxo [~jorixoInj@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:38 <_3b> minion: tell _6502_ about ieee-floats 10:35:39 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:35:39 _6502_: please look at ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary format representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 10:37:02 <_3b> specific implementations might have something faster 10:38:34 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:43 <_6502_> but how is technically possible ? is that code actually interpreting IEEE specs and "computing" the result by building mantissa and exponent using double-float operations? 10:39:11 <_3b> CL has functions for assembling/disassembling a CL float from components 10:39:18 <_6502_> there's no way to do something like in C is done with "double x = *(double *)p;" ? 10:39:28 <_6502_> oh... ok 10:39:34 <_3b> not portably 10:39:51 <_3b> that falls under 'implementation specific' stuff that i suggested might be faster :) 10:40:04 <_6502_> ok... for SBCL ? :-) 10:40:11 <_3b> cffi is a sort-of portable way to do the C cast trick 10:40:45 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:40:49 <_6502_> ok... i'll take a look at both, thanks 10:41:19 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:41:21 -!- _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:42:16 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:38 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:42:49 *_3b* is trying to remember how to do that in sbcl 10:43:54 <_3b> possibly (sb-kernel:make-double-float bits more-bits) where bits and more-bits are 32bits of the double float, don't remember which order though :p 10:44:46 <_3b> ah, too late :/ 10:45:37 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:49:17 Angelue [~jorixiHmf@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:49:27 people are soooo impatient these days ... 10:50:42 -!- Angelue 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[~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:05:03 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:06:05 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:09:36 -!- scrimohsin [dink@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [] 12:16:38 i like my gratification instant, or faster 12:17:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:20 scrimohsin [dink@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 12:17:38 Xach: do you get yours in a metal box, like instant coffee? 12:18:19 "just add water" 12:20:13 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.123] has joined #lisp 12:20:40 yakov [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has joined #lisp 12:22:17 Hi, if I have two large hash tables (10 million entries) is it possible to do efficient queries on both : ex extract subjects who are in both table 1 and table 2 ? 12:22:50 well, you'll need to loop through all entries of one table ... so iterate over the smaller one 12:23:30 francogrex: if you want to do something like that, a hash table might not be the best structure to use. 12:23:47 perhaps it's easier to store the existence when building the tables? 12:24:02 -!- holymoo [~chatzilla@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110429083448]] 12:24:03 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@curio.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:09 (the existence of the key in both datasets, that is) 12:24:32 where do you get the data from? 12:24:51 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:27:12 ok. the data are flat files. Xach would the structures better suited be some sort of DB tables like oracle tables? 12:27:23 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-144-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:21 francogrex: perhaps when reading the second set just look for existance in the first set, and store the duplicated keys? 12:28:33 then you only need one hash table, and there's no extra lookup later 12:28:41 francogrex: I don't know, sorry. 12:29:33 flip214: maybe it can work at least as a work around. I'll try it 12:30:46 francogrex: what are the keys like? 12:30:47 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:31:50 They are ID numbers of subjects like: "3454" and "6563" etc.. 12:32:10 francogrex: if one of the inputs is pre-sorted by the key, you could simply build an array or list and do an interpolation search 12:32:38 just 4 digit numbers? how do you get 10e6 entries? lots of duplicate keys? 12:33:10 *Xach* is always a big fan of bit vectors 12:33:12 flip214: no its an example e, it can go beyond 4 digits 12:33:26 francogrex: what is the range of ids? 12:35:12 francogrex: perhaps a bloom filter might do the trick, if you're willing to accept false positives 12:35:13 from 1 to 3,498,229... there are several values for each ID of course (duplicates etc) 12:36:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-144-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:36:18 francogrex: oh, then that would be pretty trivial to use a bit vector for, and use BIT-AND to find duplicates. 12:36:41 on SBCL, bit vector operations are extremely fast (they operate a word at a time) 12:36:53 Xach: ok then I will also try that 12:37:26 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:35 oh nooo, but you will need at least 512kByte of RAM for that!!!! Nobody's gonna need more than 64kByte!! 12:37:58 *Xach* powers his erik naggum search with 30MB of in-memory bit vectors 12:38:01 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 12:38:22 Inefficient representation. :) 12:38:30 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 12:39:17 Zhivago: to get more efficient than the bit vector use a bloom filter. 12:39:24 No. 12:39:32 that trades probability for memory usage. 12:39:46 You're representing inverted indexes, so what you want to represent are gaps. 12:40:25 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-10-107.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:40:32 There are efficient ways to compress gap representations. 12:40:52 hi 12:41:11 Bloom filters have the problem of false positives. 12:41:35 They're also generally less efficient than a decent gap encoding. 12:42:26 Inverted Index Compression Using Word-Aligned Binary Codes is a decent paper on it. 12:45:08 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:11 Zhivago: not freely available, as far as my google-fu goes. 12:46:19 http://ww2.cs.mu.oz.au/~alistair/abstracts/ 12:46:37 sup 12:47:07 flip214: you're suggestion to create table 2 based on table 1 as it is being filled works at least for this example. i'll need to investigate bit-vectors for the general cases 12:47:54 Zhivago: points to springerlink 12:48:13 You have the source, and if you read the top, he'll send you a copy if you ask nicely. 12:48:22 «Access to this Content is Restricted» 12:48:29 ok, i may as well try ... 12:48:38 Efficient Set Intersection for Inverted Indexing 12:48:39 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:49:47 franco: Just walk both lists in parallel. 12:50:08 franco: A skip-list can be useful here. 12:50:15 hi 12:50:19 flip214: hi 12:50:22 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:50:24 Posterdati: ho 12:50:27 If you use something like binary code compression, then you make your skip list of binary coded blocks. 12:50:48 Zhivago: ok. on another note, unfortunately my library subscripton doesn't include this journal : ACM Transactions on Information Systems 12:51:18 Well, if you read the top of the page, he'll send you copies of his papers if you ask nicely. 12:51:35 And he does, because I have. 12:51:44 I will 12:52:32 hi 12:52:37 flip214: hi 12:53:32 -!- algorist [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 12:57:23 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.234] has joined #lisp 12:59:22 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:27 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:03:46 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 13:04:04 -!- confab_ [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:57 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:09:23 -!- yakov [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:39 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:57 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:11:05 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:11:21 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.44.31] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 13:11:39 -!- zanea [~zanea@125-237-51-83.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:11:51 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.44.31] has left #lisp 13:12:15 Is it possible to do the scheme infinite lambda loop ((lambda (x) (x x))(lambda (x) (x x))) in CL? 13:12:41 ((lambda (x) (funcall x x)) (lambda (x) (funcall x x))) 13:12:45 Ah... 13:12:49 Thanks. 13:13:50 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:14:22 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.234] has joined #lisp 13:15:20 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:42 C-c C-c 13:16:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:18:19 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:39 zanea [~zanea@125-239-218-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:22:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:24:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:43 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:24:45 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 13:25:15 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.127.156] has joined #lisp 13:26:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8136EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:26:50 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 13:34:08 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 13:35:42 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:08 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:24 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 13:40:31 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 13:40:52 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:41:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:41:12 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:27 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:41:50 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-144-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:36 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:59 dcorking [~dcorking@82.152.210.88] has joined #lisp 13:47:45 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:26 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.162.81] has joined #lisp 13:49:46 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.109] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:01:06 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:01:26 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:02:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A5F79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:03 xan_ [~xan@36.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:04:10 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:42 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:07:42 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:18 gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:53 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.162.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18:43 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:57 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:31 phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:12 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:30:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-249.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 convulsive [~convulsiv@athedsl-273801.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:31:45 -!- convulsive [~convulsiv@athedsl-273801.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 14:32:50 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 14:34:09 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.234] has joined #lisp 14:35:03 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:37:33 am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has joined #lisp 14:38:18 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:38:39 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.234] has joined #lisp 14:39:44 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.248.148] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-syluhbuysoasisxg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:12 Why doesn't SLIME show me a hint in the bottom of window when I write "(defun" in editor? :( 14:43:13 hint about what ? 14:43:18 about the tag ? 14:43:24 Moment. 14:43:28 taht it's a function definition ? 14:43:39 (defun name varlist &rest body) 14:43:46 there's another package needed for that i think 14:43:47 leo2007 [~phd@114.247.10.74] has joined #lisp 14:43:54 Like it's said in Practical Common Lisp. 14:44:22 * As it's said 14:44:28 i don't know what you mean really, what is said ? 14:44:31 Sorry for my English. 14:44:35 np 14:45:01 homie: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/lather-rinse-repeat-a-tour-of-the-repl.html 14:45:22 See the title 'Saving Your Work' 14:46:34 n1tn4tsn0k: perhaps you didn't load the right contribs. 14:46:46 How to load them? 14:46:57 n1tn4tsn0k: do you have a call to slime-setup in your .emacs? 14:47:13 Of courswe. 14:47:18 * course 14:47:22 n1tn4tsn0k: what does it look like? 14:47:33 Moment. 14:47:40 (slime-setup 'slime-fancy) ? 14:48:06 err whithout the ' i think 14:48:12 http://sprunge.us/OGWI 14:49:58 n1tn4tsn0k: how does your prompt look like? is it like CL-USER> ? 14:50:04 n1tn4tsn0k: that looks pretty good. 14:50:06 Yes. 14:50:44 i didn't get his problem 14:51:14 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:51:19 homie: do you use ecl? 14:51:28 n1tn4tsn0k: maybe ecl doesn't support arglist hints. 14:51:30 -!- sonnym1 [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:51:46 Xach: i tried to compile it a few times on debian, and then gave up on it 14:51:50 Xach: Ok. I'll try with clisp. 14:52:03 homie: So when you say "I didn't get this problem", what did you mean? 14:52:07 n1tn4tsn0k: those two are the last implementations i personally would try 14:52:14 n1tn4tsn0k: clisp's arglist hints are usually not very good. 14:52:24 Xach: i meant n1tn4tsn0k's problem 14:52:34 homie: So you didn't get the problem because you don't use ecl? 14:53:08 no his problem at all, don't know if that's only ecl specific! 14:53:30 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:54:34 homie: It is ecl-specific. 14:54:49 ah ok sorry, i didn't even get that see... 14:55:59 Xach: why? 14:56:33 i thought he meant the thing which appears at the modeline or in the minibuffer as a description of the body at mouse-point or so in emacs, which describes what it is (eldoc or so, together with perl i think) 14:57:28 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:57:33 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:00 n1tn4tsn0k: Hmm, at some time in the past the argument symbols were converted into difficult-to-read names. It doesn't seem to do that any more. Never mind. 14:58:05 n1tn4tsn0k: btw, how did you get slime working yesterday? 14:58:44 n1tn4tsn0k: For example, it would change (defun radical (numerator denominator) ...) hints into something like: (radical a0 a1) 14:58:57 *Xach* wonders when that changed 15:00:06 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Input/output error] 15:00:06 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:29 gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:56 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.234] has joined #lisp 15:01:44 mcstar: what is "btw"? 15:01:53 by the way 15:01:56 apropo 15:01:57 Ok. 15:02:24 I've just copied it into /usr/share/common-lisp/source 15:02:50 sudo cp -r ~/src/slime /usr/share/common-lisp/source 15:03:39 weird 15:03:55 Xach: hm. At least clisp shows hints unlike ecl. 15:04:38 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:08 (i keep writing *standard-error* instead of *error-output*, bah) 15:07:44 Hm. Ecl shown hits normally for format :) 15:08:00 HG` [~HG@p5DC05DED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:37 n1tn4tsn0k: maybe it's a function/macro distinction. 15:08:45 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:58 Maybe. 15:09:40 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nylnzpdgylhdkgim] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:54 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:10:46 n1tn4tsn0k: that's because you didn't activated the slime-autodoc contrib in your call to slime-setup. 15:12:06 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has joined #lisp 15:13:34 I've pressed C-c C-z and emacs window became splitted on the two frames. Carret is now in the right frame. How to mave it back to the left? 15:14:12 n1tn4tsn0k: C-x o 15:14:23 knfor (other) 15:14:39 n1tn4tsn0k: have you read the emacs tutorial? 15:14:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-202-63.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:31 felideon: I have read it long ago. :) 15:15:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:15:48 I'm too lazy to make myself do it again. :) 15:16:33 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:17:47 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-mgqydnfcchemirja] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:18:07 n1tn4tsn0k: thanks for subjecting me to your laziness. 15:18:56 Xach: :) 15:19:24 buh. :(( 15:19:34 n1tn4tsn0k: Do try the tutorial again before asking about how to use emacs. 15:19:42 :( 15:20:10 n1tn4tsn0k: emacs questions are probably more welcome on #emacs. 15:21:00 does any of you use org mode, to annotate lisp source? 15:21:03 is it possible? 15:21:26 Yes, it's possible. No, nobody does it. 15:22:06 ah, ok, im fine with hs-minor-mode anyway 15:22:17 Younder [~john@86.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:22:21 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-202-63.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:22:26 mcstar: david o'toole does it 15:22:33 mcstar: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-org-mode/ 15:22:35 mcstar David O'toole has some interesting examples of Lisp insid orgmode 15:22:51 Xach is fast! 15:23:03 thx, ill take a look 15:24:00 mcstar: somewhere in here: https://github.com/dto 15:24:09 Has anyone here taken a look at calendrical calculations? 15:24:25 Younder: yes. I even borrowed the book from the library! 15:24:27 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:24:43 mon_key, good for you 15:26:11 Now the CL in the book could use some brushing up. It seems to adhere to CLTL even though the HS has been around for 20 years soon. 15:26:42 (The third revision is from2 2008) 15:27:06 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has joined #lisp 15:27:37 So maybe we could give some advise on the coding style? 15:28:24 Why? 15:29:59 Nothing major too many defconstants should be enumerations. List's tha should be defstruc's (:type :lisp) 15:30:05 list 15:30:08 wislin [~user@61.188.239.169] has joined #lisp 15:30:31 Hi. everyone. 15:30:58 Younder: and what would happen if there were an error in your advice? It seems the authors have made a career out of seeking correctness in date calculations. What if your suggested changes mucked with their methodology? 15:31:07 The package declaration was the most immediate problem. CLTL with explicit export 15:31:42 mon_key, true. I will leave the math alone and focus on the coding. 15:31:46 Younder: is the code available for download in electronic form? 15:31:57 Xach, yes. 15:32:01 Younder: where? 15:32:36 I run ccl on virtualbox + mac os 10.6.7. I want run the ccl ide, but 15:32:37 allway ge the result as follow: [23:24] 15:32:37 ? (require "cocoa-application") [23:25] 15:32:37 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;constants.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:40 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;cocoa-utils.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:43 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;cocoa-defaults.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:47 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;cocoa-prefs.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:50 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;cocoa-typeout.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:54 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;console-window.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:57 wislin: please use paste.lisp.org instead. 15:32:57 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;cocoa-window.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:32:58 uh 15:33:01 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;cocoa-doc.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:33:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 15:33:03 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;compile-hemlock.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:33:06 ;Loading #P"ccl:cocoa-ide;fasls;hemlock.dx32fsl.newest"... 15:33:08 -!- wislin [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (rejoin & paste on paste.lisp.org) 15:33:17 Fade: why the big frownie? 15:33:18 hm 15:33:21 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05DED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:26 i didnt notice @ before 15:33:30 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 15:33:38 :) 15:33:46 n1tn4tsn0k just reminded me of a couple of dev's I'm dealing with who are apparently too lazy to read the fine manual. 15:34:23 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:24 I'm always amazed when I meet programmers who apparently lack all curiosity. 15:34:34 I'm concurrently not amazed by the quality of their code. 15:34:38 Xach, http://www.cambridge.org/us/9780521702386 15:34:42 Programming doesn't require much intelligence. 15:34:55 I don't mind people wasting their own time as much as I don't like it when they cheerfully waste mine as a direct consequence. 15:35:18 yeah, I'm going to be firing some hands this week, which always sucks. :P 15:35:20 Younder: Is that where I can get the code? 15:35:35 Xach: Younder: FWIW I have a zip archive I've been toting around that I copied from the cd in the back of the book. 15:35:40 Zhivago: could you elaborate? 15:36:04 z0d: Can you be more specific as to what you would like me to elaborate? 15:36:24 Zhivago: why do you think that programming doesn't require intelligence? 15:36:31 much* 15:36:44 mon_key, the third edition doesn't have a CD version 15:36:54 The 2nd did :) 15:36:55 Because it requires no more intelligence than that required to cook or make shoes. 15:36:58 (you can get pretty far with copy-paste programming) 15:37:07 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:33 And I'm a horrible cook :( 15:37:39 Programming is not a particularly difficult task in-and-of itself. 15:37:45 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:59 The reason that it is hard to learn to program is that it requires the acquisition of an alien mindset. 15:38:14 Humans are not designed for programming, so it takes time to teach a human brain to do it. 15:38:17 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:38:34 But, with sufficient repetition, pretty much any human can learn to do it. 15:38:41 Much like playing a musical instrument. 15:38:57 Zhivago: in this regard, what do you consider hard? 15:39:09 wislin [~user@61.188.239.169] has joined #lisp 15:39:23 original research? 15:39:24 almost any human being can be trained to forex play an instrument. training them to compose, you know, music... that's another story. 15:40:57 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:00 I'd consider anything that requires creative problem solving to require intelligence. 15:41:03 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:13 I run ccl 1.6 in virtualbox + mac os 10.6.7. when I run (require "cocoa-application"), and get the error :http://paste.lisp.org/display/123331 15:41:24 (Since that's most of the definition) 15:41:25 can anyone help me? 15:42:04 wislin: I don't know, sorry, but the ccl mailing list is always very helpful. 15:42:04 I think that a lot of programmers feel that having learned a weird skill makes them smart rather than persistent -- it's a significant problem. 15:42:43 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:42:44 i thin really smart people, are persistent too, they stay with problems further 15:42:49 wislin: http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel has some info 15:42:55 They can be. 15:43:03 wislin: you're running OS X in a virtual box? 15:43:20 felideon: yes. 15:45:26 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:45:49 wislin: I doubt that's related to it being virtualised 15:45:53 one problem with defining intelligence, is that it can only be defined in relation to something. can you be sure that this random sequence has no meaning? 15:46:07 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.248.148] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46:24 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-153.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:46:50 maybe a guy from seti could be of use 15:47:49 mcstar: What makes intelligence tests interesting is that they are only marginally trainable. 15:48:06 rsynnott: I do not know whether the problem relate to virtualised. 15:48:14 you mean human IQ tests? 15:48:23 The good ones, yes. 15:49:17 No, the problem in AI today is hypothesis creation, testing and refinement 15:49:20 nuff said 15:49:21 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-zqyuelfhzlwwwiwj] has joined #lisp 15:49:36 Which is why we can be fairly confident that they are not measuring a skill. 15:49:51 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.248.148] has joined #lisp 15:49:57 younder: Interestingly, many of the advances in modern AI have come from completely discarded those. 15:49:58 Zhivago: they can measure adaptability 15:50:10 finding analogues very fast 15:50:30 Zhivago, they have. But that is also why they are not truly intelligent 15:50:49 younder: Which part of your brain is about hypothesis creation, testing and refinement? 15:51:08 T -Cell frontal lobe 15:51:10 mcstar: In which case you'd expect practice to help. 15:51:14 younder: No. 15:51:19 No ? 15:51:46 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:51:52 Show me a theory in that goop. 15:52:21 You're confusing liguistic constructs used for logic with intelligence. 15:52:39 Humans are perfectly capable of being intelligent without grasping logic. 15:52:51 Much like snails. 15:53:17 Zhivago, I'd rather mention that there is a group at the university of Edinburgh that is researching hypothesis now 15:53:49 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:53 "humans are not designed" 15:53:54 younder: There are people researching ESP and measuring the effect of cock-rings on walruses. 15:54:01 *mcstar* thinks a kind of experiment would be most enlightening: placing human brain replicas in virtual environments not resembling our own, and see what kind of intelligent behavior emerges, then we'd have a broader understanding og its meaning 15:54:06 Zhivago, what on earth persuaded you to think the frontal lobe processed logic? 15:54:15 *JuanDaugherty* agrees, no they weren't 15:54:17 yonder: So, what is a hypothesis? 15:54:29 younder: Is it a logical construct? 15:54:36 Zhivago, The world is round 15:54:48 A logical construct, then. 15:56:13 Actually emotions are not as difficult as you might seem, creativity creates a high error factor but can also be accommodated so it is pretty much down to hypothesis creation and testing 15:56:48 s/you/they 15:56:57 emotions are like a cost function to use, they are actually important in controlling intelligent human behavior 15:57:09 true 15:57:22 essential 15:57:30 i like Minsky's book on the topic 15:57:38 younder: You appear to be babbling -- why are you now talking about emotion? 15:57:49 (casts emotions as modes of thought) 15:57:56 he wrote the Emotion Machine? 15:57:57 -!- vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:41 yes 15:58:49 Juan: Unfortunately it doesn't work so well once you consider psychopaths. 15:59:18 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-153-198.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:27 -!- wislin [~user@61.188.239.169] has left #lisp 15:59:32 diseased minds obviously are only relevant for what they show about the normal ones 15:59:47 But they can think perfectly well. 15:59:47 you can get to know the most information from a system, when it breaks down 15:59:51 s/normal/healthy/ 16:00:10 If you look at which animals show emotions, then it becomes fairly clear that they're a social control mechanism. 16:00:16 obviously they can't that's why they're called x-path 16:00:39 Juan: But they can think perfectly well. 16:00:59 *JuanDaugherty* is loosing a considerable respect he had for Zhivago in spite of doubts I had about the Hanzi heuristic. 16:01:02 Juan: They don't have the same kind of social controls that most people have, and have difficulty with empathy. 16:01:15 Juan: I suggest that you do some research. 16:01:17 Zhivago, babbeling. NO. I have demerited as a minimal basis you need sense of time, priority and interest/relevance to control a deduction over a large data set in real time conditions 16:01:49 Zhivago, you've lumped a lot of stuff together, not all animals are social by any means 16:01:58 Juan: Where did I claim that they were? 16:02:10 not even all primates 16:02:21 Juan: Again, where did I claim that they were? 16:02:25 not even all great apes 16:02:41 Hmm. Looks like it's one of those days when they let the mentally retarded people play on the internet. 16:02:44 Not even all humans. 16:02:45 If you look at which animals show emotions, then it becomes fairly clear that they're a social control mechanism. 16:02:53 pjb: good one 16:02:58 implicit in that since most animals DO show emotions 16:03:02 most/all 16:03:16 above a certain level of organization 16:03:27 Juan: And which great apes lack social interaction with one another? 16:03:36 Yes, but what emotions make us think minute by minute 16:03:48 JuanDaugherty: consider that they cant talk, they can show emotions, with actions, and with feromones etc... 16:03:48 The pjb, for example. 16:03:54 Younder: Well, obviously not the ones that psychopaths have trouble with. 16:03:56 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 Forget love, hate, fear 16:04:40 it's pheromones, mcstar 16:04:41 Juan: Which great apes do not raise their young? 16:04:51 The males. 16:04:56 Ask any female. 16:05:00 Zhivago, psychopaths have emotions. The just don't have one of the empathy. 16:05:01 how is the relevant to #lisp? 16:05:12 rasing young alone doesn't qualify as a social animal 16:05:12 Good point. 16:05:24 there are many subtypes of psychosis 16:05:24 Zhivago, psychopaths have emotions. The just don't have the one of empathy. 16:05:40 they can differ case by case i think 16:05:43 Probably in that Zhivago is getting an opportunity to show how stupid everyone else is. 16:05:46 Juan: Does raising young involve social interaction and control mechanisms? 16:05:54 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:05:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-zqyuelfhzlwwwiwj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:14 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ldquxwuhvrstnwjb] has joined #lisp 16:06:31 Zhivago, does any interaction with members of one's own species qualify that species as "social"? 16:06:58 srsly OT 16:07:12 ot, and we all need a raincheck 16:07:27 we shouldnt argue about this anyway 16:07:31 Juan: Anything that involves being in close contact, pretty much yes. 16:07:32 this planet suck, mostly dumb fucks, and the part smart are singularly disputatious 16:07:37 *sucks 16:07:41 Fade: not entirely. After all, most lisp programmers are great apes, and there's definitely a social problem of the lisp community. 16:08:00 JuanDaugherty: agreed. 16:08:01 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:09:05 -!- dcorking [~dcorking@82.152.210.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:11 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d85229b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 due to a tragic sequence of events which failed to converge, I missed ILC 2010. :-/ 16:11:04 (the tragedy is that I live in Reno) 16:11:13 I think I will take further discussion of AI to the undernet philosophy channel. anyone else care to join.. fine 16:11:24 good move 16:11:36 Younder: what is the topic exactly? 16:12:06 Younder: if you asked how to implement emotions in lisp, that'd be on subject. 16:12:15 mcstar, How important is the concept of "necessity" to a given explanation for reality? If nothing in the explanation compels acceptance, or if the explanation can be dismissed without damage to useful understanding, why accept it anyway? 16:13:20 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:27 hm, interesting, but i need to code now 16:15:34 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:19:16 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 16:19:38 -!- leo2007 [~phd@114.247.10.74] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 16:21:03 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d85229b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:21:04 for closure, Gorillae have less social organization than Homo, Pan or Bonobo all of which make social groups above the breeding group level. Pango is at the extreme, the most antisocial of the great apes. 16:21:34 Juan: Irrelevant. 16:21:57 Gorillae, only form heterosexual or homosexual troops centered on the dominant male. 16:22:19 #lisp, now partnered with #zoology 16:22:55 *mcstar* appreciates wikipedia 16:23:02 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:04 Juan: Likewise irrelevant. 16:23:07 as I said, for closure with an open question, now answered. 16:23:30 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:03 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:24:08 Zhivago: It seems rather convenient that anything mentioned by others is always irrelevant to the question at hand. 16:24:27 Odin-: irrelevant 16:24:31 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:24:37 Shush! I see that #zoology is empty. Chat there? 16:24:41 odin: You are wrong. 16:25:00 Zhivago is the HAL-9000 :-P 16:25:18 Zhivago: i noticed, you dont write full names, why? no tab completion?(honest question) 16:25:43 mcstar: No tab completion. 16:27:07 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:47 Zhivago: No, I'm not. You've used the tactic repeatedly in the current argument, and I've seen you use it several times before. 16:28:41 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:50 Zhivago: It's a handy pointer towards how pointless an argument with you is, though, so by all means keep it up. :) 16:28:51 Odin: Do you know what "anything" and "always" mean? 16:29:02 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 16:29:22 Odin: Like I said, you are wrong. 16:29:23 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:25 Sorry, Mr. Spock. 16:29:30 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:29:52 you've confused Spock with a Norsican 16:30:08 "Interesting how counterpoints made by others are either wrong or irrelevant." 16:30:20 Odin: You are still wrong. 16:30:48 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:31:04 Zhivago: You know what? I don't care. ;) 16:31:14 Good; then shut up. 16:31:19 *nausicaan 16:33:20 i dont remember them from TNG, but ive only seen that once 16:33:21 paul0 [~paul0@187.58.227.197] has joined #lisp 16:33:44 they were mostly in TOS 16:33:56 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-136-019.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has joined #lisp 16:37:06 gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:19 -!- gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:38:25 HG` [~HG@p5DC05DED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:26 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:44 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:40:01 hee hee. who gave Zhivago the Schopenhauer? (: 16:41:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ldquxwuhvrstnwjb] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:41:37 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 16:41:57 ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:59 penryu: it does seem to me to be a tragedy to live in reno, sorry. 16:42:12 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:42:29 zing? 16:42:32 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-qovguwrcrfsfhsab] has joined #lisp 16:42:46 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:17 I wonder how tragic it was for people coming to the conference from a real city. 16:43:55 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 16:45:04 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-98-64-83-200.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 16:45:12 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 16:45:17 I've heard pretty heartbreaking stories from my colleagues 16:45:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:19 friend from univ nearly had a stroke coming here from Vegas, so it must be pretty bad. 16:48:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:23 antifuchs: 'the Schopenhauer'? 16:49:56 Odin-: "Eristic Dialectics: The Art of Being Right" 16:51:08 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:22 also Schopenhauer is the stereotypical gloomy grumpy fuck, like the Peanuts character 16:52:21 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:53:24 (my bad phonetic off "Schroeder") 16:53:41 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:54 antifuchs: Huh. Seems a little more elaborate than "you are wrong", though. :D 16:54:29 (and things teutonic I guess) 16:54:45 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 16:57:50 2tonic 17:02:32 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:03:31 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:06:41 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:06:45 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-144-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:06:58 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 17:07:51 H4ns```: will there be a meetup in berlin tomorrow? 17:08:26 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-omaaqjnitphejluv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:38 zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:38 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:38 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:14:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:12 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-043-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:46 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:23 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:59 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:28:41 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:18 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:33:14 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 17:35:13 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 17:36:53 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:36:55 -!- Dodek is now known as dodek 17:37:18 -!- dodek is now known as Dodek 17:37:28 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-yqjejusyrvpllqvz] has joined #lisp 17:37:33 -!- rmarianski is now known as rmar|mtng 17:38:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@36.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:35 xan_ [~xan@42.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:45:13 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:44 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 17:46:46 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.127.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:49:05 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:49:34 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-212.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:49:37 -!- lusory_ [~bart@bb219-74-213-84.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 17:50:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-202-63.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:45 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-136-019.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:17 -!- hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:23 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 17:53:37 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-192.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:55:57 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 17:56:36 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-yqjejusyrvpllqvz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:07 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:04:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:22 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.193] has joined #lisp 18:06:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.193] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:22 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d85229b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:49 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:08 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 18:10:01 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:10:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@42.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:08 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:12:19 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:36 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:43 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 18:14:07 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 18:15:13 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:16:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:09 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:18:57 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 18:20:31 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:21:45 m_p_g [~m_p_g@dslb-094-222-140-219.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:21 carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.107] has joined #lisp 18:25:13 Does anyone know how to use ECL as cross-compiler? 18:26:53 I have an x64 OS but need to compile my program for i686 18:30:58 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 18:31:30 n1tn4tsn0k: I don't know, sorry, but the ecl mailing list is usually very helpful and quick 18:32:14 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-tuoicgllyfebgpoy] has joined #lisp 18:33:35 pnq [~nick@AC81A58C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:47 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:51 jdz [~jdz@host101-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:34:57 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:36 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:38 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-202-63.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:36:48 Xach: what mailing list? 18:38:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:38:25 n1tn4tsn0k: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ecls-list 18:39:15 thnx 18:39:22 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 18:40:28 Qworkescence pasted "A friend said" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123335 18:40:29 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 18:40:32 ;) 18:40:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:41:03 heh. 18:43:27 woo new ltk this week 18:44:32 coolbienz 18:44:59 HumanRemains: please go away, or stop adding random commentary. 18:46:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@host101-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:43 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:48:03 xach: i dont appreciate your useless meta-chat 18:48:23 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:45 HumanRemains: Too bad. 18:49:00 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 How to get contents of the package? 18:49:08 n1tn4tsn0k: what package? 18:49:20 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:23 C for example. 18:49:39 I need something like python's module.__all__() 18:49:51 n1tn4tsn0k: Packages are for symbol management. What do you want to know about the symbols of the C package? Which are exported? 18:50:04 Yes. 18:50:28 Are *global_vars* symbols? 18:50:40 Yes. 18:50:46 Yes. 18:50:50 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:50:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:50:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:51:07 n1tn4tsn0k: (do-external-symbols (sym :c) (print sym)) will print them. 18:51:14 I think maybe there is smth like *c-compiler* there. 18:51:26 Thanx. 18:52:11 Xach: it prints NIL 18:53:21 NIL is the return value. 18:53:33 That means there are no symbols exported from the C package. 18:53:40 Ok. It prints nothing. :) 18:53:59 And (c:build-program) ? 18:54:11 I use it to make standalone exe with ecl. 18:54:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:55:53 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:55:57 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:55:57 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:28 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 18:58:16 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:21 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 Xach: I found. 18:58:51 C:*CC* 18:58:54 :) 18:58:56 n1tn4tsn0k: I don't think you did. 18:59:17 Why? 18:59:34 jdz [~jdz@host10-104-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:59:45 If you write it without two colons, it should have printed by the do-external-symbols form. 19:02:18 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:16 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-tuoicgllyfebgpoy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:25 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-043-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:20 ASau` [~user@95-24-140-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:10:12 boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 19:10:50 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:37 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:12:46 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-140-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:22 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 19:14:57 hello, I am thinking of deploying a small cl app on a ubuntu server that is tight on ram -- sbcl's ~40 megs footprint would be prohibitive -- I am looking for a suggestion of an alternative cl implementation to use 19:15:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:15:41 40megs ? 19:15:57 seems you devel for a phone 19:16:01 lol 19:16:22 maybe ecl is fo you 19:16:23 Vivitron: clozure cl is pretty nice. 19:16:33 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:17:32 Thanks homie, Xach, I'll look into those 19:17:56 Vivitron: how tight is tight? 19:18:06 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-191-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:42 5 megs will go unnoticed, over 10 will probably act as a negative 19:19:06 picolisp? 19:19:18 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 19:19:30 actually i have pico here 19:19:48 but just used it once for running it's own tests 19:20:08 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C82C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:25 the page says nice things about it, but i need sbcl's performance 19:20:46 it's small lisp based on c, with dietlibc or so 19:20:57 don't know about memory footprint 19:21:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:15 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C82C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:22:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:07 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C82C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:45 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d85229b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:45 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:55 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.58.227.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:17 I plan to keep it in CL, picolisp looks like something different 19:25:35 it is lisp 19:25:50 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 19:26:19 Vivitron: clisp and ecl have pretty small footprints, similar to scripting language implementations like cpython, marb, etc. 19:26:22 i guess the code is ready, right? 19:27:00 their performance leaves something to be desired sometimes, and clisp can't really do threads, but if what you're looking for is small, for small tasks, they could do the trick. 19:27:51 CCL runs lighter than SBCL, but it's still on the heavier side of things. 19:29:12 sykopomp: thanks, on my desktop I'm seeing ~5 megs for clisp/ecl, ~15 for ccl -- I'll start with one of those and fall back to ccl if I have to 19:29:59 paul0 [~paul0@200.175.63.102.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:30:06 -!- jdz [~jdz@host10-104-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:30 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 19:36:15 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-137-033.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:45 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:15 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:30 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:43:12 jdz [~jdz@host172-21-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:46:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:55 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: JuanDaugherty] 19:47:27 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:33 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:51:59 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:53:38 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 19:55:20 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:58:04 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A58C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:47 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:59:30 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:36 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.113] has joined #lisp 20:00:42 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:16 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:02:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-249.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:46 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:33 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:06:41 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:04 -!- boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has left #lisp 20:07:11 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.248.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-208.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:32 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.251.130] has joined #lisp 20:09:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:11:02 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:13:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:13:04 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.251.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:48 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:01 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:16:15 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:16:29 Is (foo :bar) some kind of short notation for (foo :bar T) ? 20:16:32 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 not generally 20:17:09 no, :bar doesn't have to be a key argument 20:17:31 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-191-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:17:47 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:59 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.251.8] has joined #lisp 20:20:00 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:54 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:21:58 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:22:13 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:25:25 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-208.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:27:48 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:28:21 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:30:04 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 20:35:05 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:35:56 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:26 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:38:51 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:39:38 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:40:31 -!- jdz [~jdz@host172-21-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:47 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:23 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:55 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 20:48:23 Kryztof` [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:45 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:50:22 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 20:50:33 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:52:19 jdz [~jdz@host70-108-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 Vivitron: But if :bar is a key argument? 20:52:48 you'll probably get an "uneven number of key arguments" error 20:54:23 -!- rmar|mtng is now known as rmarianski 20:54:38 if you pass :bar as a regular or optional argument it will test as true 20:54:54 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-10-107.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 20:55:09 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:13 so i can do (defun foo (bar) (stuff happens)) and call it with (foo :bar) and bar will be evaluated as true in a cond ? 20:57:42 <_3b> anything that isn't NIL is 'true' 20:57:43 everything except nil counts as true, it's called generalized booleans 20:58:38 But with (foo :bar) I don't pass any value, do I? I'd think that would be seen as NIL 20:58:45 <_3b> :bar is a value 20:59:05 ah okay 20:59:17 My code example was bad. 20:59:22 <_3b> if you use &key in the lambda list of a function, that function uses some of the values to decide which variables the next value should be assigned to 20:59:33 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-209-136.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:00:12 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:17 phryk: if your function was (defun foo (&key bar) ...), then (foo :bar) would give you an error 21:00:32 <_3b> for example, (defun foo (&key bar) bar) (let ((baz :bar)) (foo baz 123)) => 123 21:01:27 <_3b> :bar in that case is a value just like any other, it just happends to be used by internal argument parsing code before the function body sees it 21:01:52 -!- jdz [~jdz@host70-108-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:54 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 Now I feel retarded. Let me read a few lines of the clhs on &key. That should either help calm down the confusion or drive me into existential crisis. 21:05:17 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:34 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05DED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:53 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #lisp 21:06:20 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has joined #lisp 21:07:24 phryk: PCL might be easier to digest, http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/functions.html#keyword-parameters 21:08:32 ah thanks. 21:08:50 I ordered that but it'll still take like 2 weeks until it gets here 21:11:58 phryk, It's also available online (felideon's link points to the relevant chapter) 21:13:11 rswarbrick: i know, but for some reason i can read longer texts much better on paper 21:13:35 mon_key annotated #123179 "this one works" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123179#1 21:16:22 phryk: for this sort of confusion I find it enlightening to run all the examples at the repl before consulting the CLHS 21:17:19 mhh 21:18:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:50 If my thinking is right I could have something where i just can supply :bar and bar will get set to true with something like: (defun foo (&key (bar NIL bar)) (dostuff withthis)) 21:19:20 which sets the default for bar to NIL but sets bar to T if bar is supplied 21:19:48 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:20:27 <_3b> you always need to pass 2 values for a keyword argument, a key and a value 21:21:00 darn 21:21:20 zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 21:22:11 -!- Kryztof` is now known as Kryztof 21:22:11 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:15 <_3b> otherwise what would happen if you also had keyword arguments hoge and piyo, and passed (foo :bar :hoge :piyo), did you mean set all 3 to t, or set bar to :hoge, or set hoge to :piyo? 21:22:21 in that case i'm back at using string arguments in order to decide how to handle the input of a function 21:22:49 _3b: all of them to true in my case, but i get your point 21:23:00 <_3b> if you just want to pass a list of flags, you could do (defun foo (&rest flags) (if (member :bar flags) ...)) 21:23:25 <_3b> or maybe loop over the &rest list setting the appropriate local variables, etc 21:24:16 i just wanted to decide if i display something as teaser or full, an optional parameter will do fine. 21:25:04 i just thought it would be cool if i could do (load-content whatever :teaser) 21:26:25 phryk: you don't want to type two more chars? (load-content whatever :teaser t) ? 21:26:47 yes 21:27:10 *_3b* would probably go all the way to (load-content whatever :display :teaser) 21:27:11 not related to that one situation in particular, it would just be nice to supply flags just with their names 21:27:43 _3b gave you a nice solution 21:28:03 My brain doesn't do enough lisp to parse that 21:28:28 Sulimo [~angel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:28:43 hi 21:28:49 What does :teaser in that case do? 21:28:58 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:59 hi 21:29:09 phryk: I was referring to his earlier example with (&rest flags) 21:29:20 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:38 <_3b> :display :teaser was intended as a &key arg named display, passed the value :teaser 21:29:51 ah that yes for multiple flags i think that would be good but how would i in that case represent 'flags'? just a list of booleans? 21:30:18 _3b: I got that, but why :teaser and not "teaser", for example? 21:31:05 <_3b> :teaser is always eq to any other :teaser, "teaser" probably isn't eq to another "teaser", so you need to test every character with equal or string= at runtime 21:31:23 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:08 _3b: but equal also i think just for style i wouldn't do that since it would confuse me to think there are two keyword arguments supplied 21:32:37 <_3b> passing keywords for that would be much more normal style that a string 21:32:52 <_3b> like (open ... :direction :output) for example 21:33:39 _3b: that gave me some real confusion when i tried doing stuff with paths 21:34:15 but that might only be because i'm new 21:34:38 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has joined #lisp 21:35:36 Anyhow that was just supposed to be a little question on the side^^; 21:35:41 -!- bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:36:55 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:13 The question I meant to ask since like 40 minutes is: I'm trying to build a little filebased blog thingy, for this I need templates for the output. Is cl-who enough for this or do i need html-template? I don't really get where the differences are 21:37:24 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37:49 <_3b> cl-who is more about writing html in sexp form 21:38:03 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:38:14 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 21:38:46 <_3b> if you want to generate the HTML from code rather than just fill in the blanks in some existing HTML, cl-who is probably better of those 2 21:38:56 -!- Sulimo [~angel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:22 <_3b> if you want to let some designer type deal with the HTML, you probably want something like html-template 21:39:47 I'll be the "designer type" 21:40:19 <_3b> well, look at both and see which you'd rather use to write html :) 21:40:35 It'll be just some xhtml and css. 21:40:44 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:49 then it's html-template (: 21:41:31 <_3b> yeah, if you want to be editing stuf with the <> in it, html-template or tal or whatever 21:41:36 Well I have peeked around the html-template page and haven't found anything that looks like a template to me Also I really like how cl-who works 21:41:57 phryk: the template is just an html file with comments (that have a certain shape) in it 21:42:18 cl-who it is. 21:42:35 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:36 <_3b> in http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/2011/07/which-keyboard-should-i-use-for-lisp.html, all those are the template stuff that it fills in 21:42:46 <_3b> oops, wrong URL... http://weitz.de/html-template/#example 21:42:46 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BACC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:51 -!- m_p_g [~m_p_g@dslb-094-222-140-219.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:01 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:44:01 mhh seems okay but the notation cl-who gives is just more elegant (i can actually see WHICH tag ends with which bracket, not only the type of the tag that ends) 21:44:30 Also I don't think there's anything I can't write with cl-who that I can when doing plain html 21:44:55 <_3b> right, if you don't like the <> stuff and don't need it to be readable by non-(lisp-)programmer types, cl-who or yaclml or similar might be better 21:45:43 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C82C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:45:56 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:03 <_3b> or 'editable' rather than 'readable', since they can always read the generated HTML 21:46:04 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has joined #lisp 21:48:50 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 21:49:02 "XML is readable" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard 21:49:40 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:56 Whoever came up with that deserved to be shot in the foot, whipped, decapitated and then *really* hurt. 21:50:30 <_3b> dunno, seems reasonably readable to me... wouldn't want to try to /validate/ it by hand, and writing it correctly is a hassle, but if you assume it is valid, it isn't too hard to parse 21:50:57 _3b: given that it's written decently, yes. 21:51:02 pnq [~nick@AC82CB85.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:22 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633705.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:33 But I've seen way to much bullshit xml that just made no sense Also I don't see where exactly it's more readable than let's say the c array-notation 21:51:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-202-63.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:41 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 21:51:57 or for that part the cl-who notation. in fact for me it's much more readable. 21:52:10 *_3b* is mostly talking about the html generated by html, since XML in general is off-topic 21:52:14 phryk: effect of people getting serialization tools without being taught about file format creation 21:52:18 <_3b> *generated by cl-who, etc 21:52:37 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:52:44 p_l|backup: Most of that was handwritten. 21:53:02 The agency I work at had some real idiots until like 3 years ago 21:53:21 <_3b> XML can't do anything about users, so not really fair to blame it :p 21:53:42 People who put plain-text sql queries into hidden input-fields (including price-info) and even executed them without checking 21:53:52 <_3b> not like the sort of people who put base64 encoded gzipped binary data in an xml file would do better with sexps or whatever :p 21:54:01 _3b: Yes, but it's not more readable than any other notation in particular 21:54:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:54:49 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:40 Ah that reminds me They also put xml data they genereated from a template into POST, as base64 - as well as plaintext. for some reason they didn't use the plaintext data but decoded the base64. To this day I have no clue what the fuck those guys where thinking. 21:56:33 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:34 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.251.8] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:56:43 Well enough ranting for today. I'll go to sleep. :) 21:56:52 Thanks for the help and advice :) 21:56:57 phryk: probably thinkgin "Is it lunch time, yet?" 21:56:57 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441869.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:58:04 felideon: I sometimes doubt these guys were even able to think at all :P 21:58:06 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:01:06 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:01:34 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 22:11:36 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 22:14:46 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-209-136.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:15:42 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82CB85.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:45 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:22:46 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has joined #lisp 22:22:58 b 22:23:21 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:23:30 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:02 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.74.34.75] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:25:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:09 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:33:07 is it not an error that that CL-FAD:PATHNAME-AS-FILE signals for the following: (cl-fad:pathname-as-file "") 22:33:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:35:20 IOW on SBCL i get pretty far into the conditional before teh make-pathname bails on the bogus directory list 22:37:06 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:26 happens with this too: (cl-fad:pathname-as-file #P"") 22:38:02 and this as well: (cl-fad:pathname-as-file (make-pathname)) 22:41:15 <_3b> that does seem to not match the docs for that function... not sure what it would return there though 22:41:36 It should bail early just like it does for wild-pathname-p 22:42:05 <_3b> not sure what you mean 22:42:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:28 it bails on this b/c it not doing so would be bad: (cl-fad:pathname-as-file #P"/*.*") 22:43:32 <_3b> it can't return NIL or "", since directory-pathname-p doesn't return NIL for either of those, but i can't think of anything else for it to return 22:44:00 maybe an :unspecific? 22:44:10 <_3b> it only accepts non-wild pathnames, so #p"/*.*" isn't valid input 22:44:35 Yes. but the point is why it doesn't accept wilds 22:44:59 <_3b> because a wild pathname isn't a file or a directory? 22:45:10 A wild is a valid pathname in a similar way that "" is 22:45:53 So i would expect that "" would signal an error as well. 22:46:53 would this work (make-pathname :defaults "") 22:46:56 <_3b> so you are saying it should check for things like "" and "/" and give more informative errors? 22:47:03 -!- ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:47:15 gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:25 Yes, I am saying that while it does check for wilds it doesn't check for "" and "/" etc. Why is it any less valid to check for those... they may be equally as catastrophic. 22:49:24 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-153-198.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:49:51 For example: (cl-fad:list-directory "") 22:50:03 pnq [~nick@AC827723.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:19 *_3b* has no idea 22:52:15 The above amounts to the production fo a wild pathaname b/c of: (cl-fad::directory-wildcard "") 22:53:40 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 22:54:29 So, passing the empty string to CL-FAD:PATHNAME-AS-FILE is damn near equivalent to passing it this (wild-pathname-p (cl-fad::directory-wildcard "")) 23:00:04 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:01:40 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-192.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-128-254.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:11 clisp> (cl-fad::directory-wildcard "") #P"nil" 23:07:52 peppermint [~peppermin@c-71-60-133-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:02 -!- peppermint [~peppermin@c-71-60-133-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:20 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:23 clisp> (cl-fad:pathname-as-file nil) => #P"nil" 23:13:50 Disregarding whether Clisp's return value is even remotely sane, CL-FAD:PATHNAME-AS-FILE does not seem particularly portable w/r/t the empty string. :) 23:17:48 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.107] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:18:14 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:18:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:19:00 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 23:19:04 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:10 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:54 mon_key pasted "CL-FAD:PATHNAME-AS-FILE -- maybe this is more sane?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123340 23:32:51 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:37:42 -!- pnq 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