00:00:53 Um.. 00:01:34 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:01:54 (defun main (ac av) ((-int-) ac) ((-gptr- "char **") av) ...) 00:02:27 Well, the point is that this is not Common Lisp. 00:02:30 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:32 It will be translated to C as void main (int ac, char** argv) { ... } 00:02:45 Perhaps, but this is not Common Lisp. This is another language. 00:02:49 It's dialect, I see. 00:02:55 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:03 n1tn4tsn0k: again, why do you want to translate to C? Common Lisp works. 00:03:52 For example, SBCL makes too large standalone executables in Linux and is not ported normally to windows. 00:05:11 Then use clisp or ecl. 00:05:26 clisp is just interpreter. 00:05:28 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-119-54.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:37 clisp produce small executable images. ecl compiles to C compiles to native programs as big as C programs. 00:05:45 I need compilation to native code. 00:05:47 clisp has a compiler, just like any other implementations. 00:05:47 n1tn4tsn0k, why do you need a small executable? Do you plan to distribute it on floppys? As for windows, try ccl 00:06:01 clisp also has a jitc to generate native code from its bytecode. 00:06:07 *Odin-* wonders if people count the C runtime libraries when complaining about Lisp executable size. 00:06:12 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:06:18 n1tn4tsn0k: but then, ecl seems to be what you want. 00:06:21 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:25 scottmaccal pasted "valid input" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123279 00:06:57 pavelludiq: maybe becuse I nave no rubber hdd ;/ 00:07:38 Odin-: no, it's hidden in /usr/lib, just like libc. 00:07:51 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:07:52 I mean, libecl. 00:07:53 What's the best way to code more than one vaild input? 00:08:19 pjb: are there any examples of CL code that can be compiled with ecl to native code? 00:08:28 and instructions how to compile. 00:09:09 n1tn4tsn0k: ecl comes with a manual, AFAIK. 00:09:32 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.23.54] has joined #lisp 00:09:37 Ok. But what about -gprt- in lush? :D 00:09:54 I want to understand. 00:10:29 n1tn4tsn0k: all the CL code can be compiled with ecl. ecl is a Common Lisp implementation. So have a look at http://cliki.net http://common-lisp.net http://quicklisp.org/ 00:10:44 n1tn4tsn0k: ah, so -gprt- is in lush! Then read lush documentation. 00:10:58 n1tn4tsn0k: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lush/Compiling says that it's void* 00:11:01 n1tn4tsn0k: from above, it looks like it's just the name of the parameter 00:11:40 n1tn4tsn0k, I was unable to find a HDD smaller than 80 gigs for purchase in my area, do you have some specialized need, that makes a few MB extra unacceptable? 00:12:38 pavelludiq: what the silly questions? I like compact executables. 00:13:28 Bike: (-gptr-) = void*, (-gptr- "char**") = char** 00:13:36 n1tn4tsn0k, why? Thats what im trying to find out, is just something you like, or do you actually need it? 00:14:02 Bike: I think, must be an opportunity to convert this in list. 00:15:04 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:03 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:10 scottmaccal annotated #123279 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123279#1 00:16:14 pavelludiq: ok, I can adduce one more reason. 00:16:58 SBCL doesn't link program's own exe. 00:17:17 Does some have a sec to look at my paste and talk sting comparisons and program flow? 00:17:28 It just saves its state to an executable image that has SBCL command line arguments like --help 00:17:52 n1tn4tsn0k: You seem to be suffering from a pretty basic confusion here. 00:18:20 n1tn4tsn0k: That can be controlled when you save the image. 00:18:28 How? 00:18:32 scottmaccal: What's the problem? You can use a loop, or maybe set up a restart? 00:19:14 n1tn4tsn0k: see :save-runtime-options to save-lisp-and-die. 00:20:19 pavelludiq: the real issue isn't disk space, it's time required to download if it's not delivered on physical media, or space taken in memory 00:21:18 Xach: where should I see it? :( 00:21:29 Is there a documentation? 00:21:50 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.23.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:22:01 p_l|backup: what time? 100 Mb/s is almost faster than my hard disk bus speed. 00:22:14 p_l|backup, i can download a gig in an hour, and remember when it took days, and i'm only 21 00:22:33 bike: Just looking for some advice on the best way to code this. I want to be sure the user only inputs a string that is the word two, three, or four. 00:22:44 n1tn4tsn0k: yes. see the sbcl manual under "Saving a core image" 00:22:57 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:22:59 scottmaccal: a string, or just text? 00:23:11 scottmaccal: what if he types 123? is it a string, or is it a number? 00:24:09 scottmaccal: (defun getit () (let ((input (read-line *query-io*))) (if (member input '("two" "three" "four") :test (function string=)) input (getit)))) 00:24:13 pjb: yes, exactly. The if I coded in the paste bin only allows for the word two. 00:24:21 that is good and all 00:25:13 I have a problem with ecl. 00:25:25 I was hoping to come up with some code that would also include three and four as being valid but not anything else. 00:25:40 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.184] has joined #lisp 00:25:46 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:25:50 I've installed it with apt-get (I use debian) but I can't find it in /usr/bin 00:26:26 scottmaccal: you can use (or (string= input "two") (string= input "three") ...) too, but MEMBER or FIND or POSITION is soon easier to read. 00:27:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-179-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27:55 pjb: but how would I write something that covers all three words? I tried multiple ifs but that didn't get me anywhere. 00:28:06 scottmaccal: (defun getit () (let ((input (read-line *query-io*))) (if (member input '("two" "three" "four") :test (function string=)) input (getit)))) 00:29:10 n1tn4tsn0k: "which ecl" doesn't work? 00:29:33 pavelludiq: FYI - we don't all live in cities, and mobile internet is on the rise. And while it has peak speeds of >40Mbit/s, bandwidth caps, lack of capacity, or lack of newer equipement in the area all can conspire to bring you down to 48kbit (in civilized countries), even less or none or huge charges (america) 00:29:37 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.63.193] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 00:29:56 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.63.193] has joined #lisp 00:30:05 p_l|backup: granted. 00:30:24 p_l|backup: but in those situations, you will have downloaded all you need on your hard disk. 00:30:41 p_l|backup: eg. there are iPad applications that have the whole wikipedia in your iPad. 00:31:28 plb: cool. thank you. I will give it a shot. 00:31:54 This looks more complex than I would have been able to come up with on my own 00:32:12 p_l|backup, i live in a small-ish city in Bulgaria, and my ISP is so lame , that every time it snows even slightly, my connection suffers, but downloading software was never a problem. 00:32:39 scottmaccal: then you need to read a couple of book.s 00:32:40 pjb: yes, but even then the difference between "I didn't notice when" and "I waited 5 minutes" weighs on user satisfaction. And yes, I'd like to still build traditional desktop apps :) 00:32:46 minion: tell scottmaccal about gentle 00:32:46 scottmaccal: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 00:33:20 scottmaccal: also, only 100 pages: http://www.franz.com/resources/educational_resources/cooper.book.pdf 00:34:19 Bike: outputs nothing. :/ 00:35:13 Xach: try to `strip` executable made by sbcl. It just converts it into sbcl itself. :/ 00:38:52 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:16 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:00 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:40:46 n1tn4tsn0k: doctor, it hurts when i do this 00:40:56 n1tn4tsn0k: if you want to make it smaller, try gzexe 00:41:41 Bike: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/amd64/ecl/filelist 00:41:49 Bike: only ecl-config 00:42:31 Is it "/usr/lib/common-lisp/bin/ecl.sh", maybe? 00:42:37 Xach: but it's not native executable. 00:44:56 Bike: /usr/lib/ecl/ecl-original 00:44:59 I found. 00:45:26 But why not just ecl in /usr/bin directory like other normal applications? :/ 00:47:18 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:47:37 Here, ecl is /usr/bin/ecl 00:47:52 Here, it's a gentoo system. 00:48:12 The explanation in ECL's faq ends with it in /usr/local. 00:48:21 n1tn4tsn0k, apparently, people had this discussion 10 years ago http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3209637974597287@naggum.net.html :D 00:49:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:49:35 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:18 n1tn4tsn0k: what does "native executable" mean to you? 00:51:49 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 00:52:29 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:34 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:53:36 /bin/df|awk '{s+=$4}END{print s/1024}' --> 766367 GB free here... 00:53:53 s/GB/MB/ :-) 00:54:16 1 PB free will be in 2020. 00:55:15 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:55:52 may I ask what file sizes we are talking about? 00:56:29 A sbcl executable is 50 MB, a clisp executable is 4 MB. 00:56:49 a ecl executable is like a C executable, but both require 4 MB of libraries. 00:57:05 pjb: so, nothing more to download from a vanilla system? 00:57:08 no runtime 00:57:32 for sbcl and clisp, just the normal system libraries. Nothing specific to them. 00:57:53 "normal system libs"... that would yield the numbers mentioned above? 00:58:07 if so, that'd be very reasonable imho 00:58:20 Well, libc, libm, things like that. 00:58:47 Yes, if you add up the libraries, it's quite comparable. That's how ecl does it, it puts the implementation in libecl. 00:58:55 hmm, and a standalone binary for say a windows system? what would you guess? 00:59:02 Same. 00:59:28 if nothing lisp-ish is preinstalled on that machine? 00:59:40 But again, it just doesn't matter. Firefox is 100 MB, the least application is at least as big with thousands of "resource" files, etc. 01:00:27 It didn't matter ten years ago, it doesn't matter today when hard disks are 100 times bigger and 1/2 the price. 01:01:43 That said, there's a demo scene where they make impressive visual and sound effects in less than 4 KB. I guess we could also have a demo CL scene, were we'd write CL implementations in less than 4 KB. 01:01:53 well, it might be a little bit off-putting depending on the type of program. I'd personally feel more giddy with a 5mb binary for a simple program, but after all... I'd be happy to have something shippable ;-) 01:02:27 Aren't simple programs scripts? #!/usr/bin/clisp 01:03:53 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ggmdkuwivbvaowos] has joined #lisp 01:04:24 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:20 I'm just saying that a simple calculator with a gui and 50mb file size might be a little bit much. If performance is satisfying with clisp or ecl I'd prefer the smaller file size 01:06:47 I'm thinking of the use-case... user clicks download-button on website 01:07:55 I think in that case 50mb vs 4mb file size all other things being equal... I'd clearly prefer that smaller file size 01:08:24 if it's about a program that I run myself on a server... I couldn't care less 01:09:39 pjb: thank you for the book link 01:10:04 Xach: executable created by gcc for example. 01:10:21 scottmaccal: there's also http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 01:10:29 Xach: it has binary code and some elf/pe format. 01:10:32 littlebobby: if it's a simple calculator, do you really need to compile it? What about just #!/usr/bin/clisp script it? 01:10:46 Xach: only. 01:10:58 pjb: I was thinking about having a downloadable executable for end users 01:11:13 n1tn4tsn0k: Why do you care? 01:11:28 pjb: where you need to deliver all dependencies 01:11:46 *Xach* sells CL executables and hasn't had anyone balk yet 01:11:46 Xach: optimization. 01:12:03 littlebobby: javascript then? There are always dependencies. 01:12:04 n1tn4tsn0k: Ok. The things you think are important are not all that important to me, sorry. 01:12:28 Huh.) 01:12:36 littlebobby: notice also that the more application developed depending on libecl or other CL implementations, the more linux distributors will include those implementations as they do for python, ruby or perl. 01:12:42 Xach: interesting, are those standalone? if yes, how big are they? 01:13:08 littlebobby: 100mb or so. nobody cares about the file size. they want the functionality. 01:13:44 d2biG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 01:13:47 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:13:57 -!- mmauryc [~mmmau@192.246.232.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:09 Now, it would be great if it was 5mb and still was as functional and was also really fast. 01:14:20 pjb: I think we might be talking past each other. I was thinking about that simple use case - standalone binary for windows user to download - nothing more, nothing less 01:14:26 However, I haven't found it to be a practical obstacle, only an inconvenience. 01:15:13 littlebobby: then you have the choice: sbcl: 50 MB, clisp: 5 MB. 01:15:18 Xach: sure, I agree. I was just saying... IF it only differs in size (for the above scenario) I'd prefer the smaller one 01:15:59 Has anyone here witnessed an installation of Visual Studio? Unless your app is that big and takes that long to install, you're probably fine :D 01:16:18 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:16:33 pavelludiq: unless your application installation requires are reboot, you're fine. 01:16:34 pjb: indeed :-) thanks 01:16:45 pavelludiq: haha 01:17:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:51 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ggmdkuwivbvaowos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:29 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 01:31:05 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:34:48 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:50 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:40:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:40:42 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 01:41:41 Xach: serverside, though, isn't it? 01:42:49 ECL is cool :D 01:43:18 Thanks to pjb, Bike. :) 01:43:53 Thanks to Juan for ECL! :-) 01:45:09 Who is it?) 01:45:17 Developer of ECL? 01:45:33 Yes. 01:45:38 Nice.) 01:45:56 Juan Jose Garcia-Ripoll 01:46:14 Do u use ecl? 01:46:20 Sometimes. 01:46:28 And SBCL? 01:47:04 That's what's great about CL: it's a language defined by a standard, with several different implementations. So you can write programs that run on all the implementations, and you can choose which implementation to use late, when you need to deploy with specific constraints. 01:47:12 I use about all the free CL implementations. 01:47:32 But I develop and debug mostly with clisp. 01:47:42 rme [~rme@50.43.153.94] has joined #lisp 01:48:20 I see. 01:48:40 One more question. 01:49:15 How to write in CL cimputing if n't fibonacci number with double recursion? 01:49:27 pjb pasted "clall" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123280 01:49:38 n1tn4tsn0k: have a look at clall 01:49:50 It's a script to run CL expressions on all the CL implementations installed on your system. 01:50:01 (to compare implementation specific behavior). 01:50:34 n1tn4tsn0k: and of course, read CLHS, to know what code is conforming, ie. will run the same in all the conforming CL implementations. 01:52:16 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:52:41 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:20 > (defun fib (n) (cond ((= n 0) 0) ((= n 1) 1) (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2))))) 01:54:20 FIB 01:54:20 > (fib 4) 01:54:20 0 01:54:34 What are errors in this code? 01:54:53 Equal code in haskell works great. 01:54:59 You forgot to specify the condition for the last branch. 01:55:28 Try (defun fib (n) (cond ((= n 0) 0) ((= n 1) 1) (t (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2)))))) 01:56:18 Um.. 01:56:34 It's non-conditional branch. 01:56:36 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:45 And since + is a variable that has usually a non-false value... 01:56:46 Your code has + as the condition, so it runs (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2)) in an implicit progn, discarding the first and returning the second, so (fib n) = (fib (- n 2)), which is wrong. 01:56:51 Sorry for my english.. Like else. 01:57:00 Prelude> let fib n | n == 0 = 0 | n == 1 = 1 | otherwise = (fib (n-1)) + (fib (n-2)) 01:57:03 Prelude> fib 4 01:57:04 3 01:57:08 The "t" is sort of like the "otherwise". 01:57:14 How to translate this in CL? 01:57:17 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:57:20 I did up there. 01:57:26 (cond ... ('otherwise ...)) or you can: (defconstant otherwise t) (cond ... (otherwise ...)) 01:57:26 If anyone knows haskell.) 01:57:35 ah ok. 01:57:36 He did it up there. 01:58:36 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-2b-60.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:58:55 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:37 pjb: can I use any another word instad of 'otherwise? 01:59:38 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 Sure. It's just an expression that must evaluate to true. That is, anything but nil. Usually we use T. 02:01:39 T or t? 02:01:50 with the default setting, same thing. 02:01:50 Is list case-unsensitive? 02:02:01 No. 02:02:12 But by default the reader is configured to be upcasing. 02:02:27 Try: (eq 't 'T) and try: (eq '|T| '|t|) 02:02:35 (eq 't '|T|) 02:04:00 You can make the reader case sensitive with: (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :preserve) 02:04:14 then you will have to type all the CL symbols in uppercase. 02:04:21 You can use caps-mode in emacs ;-) 02:04:31 (SETF (READTABLE-CASE *READTABLE*) :UPCASE) 02:04:45 Also: (setf *print-case* :downcase) 02:04:56 clhs readtable-case 02:04:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rdtabl.htm 02:05:01 clhs *print-case* 02:05:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_cas.htm 02:05:10 :) 02:06:30 umbriaco [~umbriaco@ip-129.63.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:08 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:14:19 Elench` [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 02:33:30 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:35:39 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 02:36:43 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4D15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:58 resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 02:44:10 would it be sane or insane to write a lisp dialect in common-lisp? 02:44:30 sane 02:44:47 pjb: why? 02:44:48 resu: for example, pseudo is a r4rs scheme implementation written in Common Lisp. Very practical. 02:45:02 Because Common Lisp is the best language to write languages. 02:45:11 It's would be even easier to write a lisp dialect. 02:45:38 and because that would allow easy communication between CL code and language X code. 02:46:00 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:46:41 cool then, do you have a link to pseudo? 02:47:16 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/scheme/impl/pseudo/0.html 02:48:02 But then, there are a lot of languages implemented in Common Lisp: Python, Haskell, JavaScript, C (search for Zeta-C, but Zeta C is in Lisp Machine Lisp, not in CL), etc. 02:48:02 pjb: thanks 02:48:15 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@pool-71-173-72-133.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:28 will do 02:49:45 How to connect two strings? 02:49:57 (cons "abc" "def") 02:50:02 thx 02:50:03 clhs concatenate 02:50:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_concat.htm 02:50:20 Hm.. 02:50:25 And list of strings? 02:50:40 clhs concatenate 02:50:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_concat.htm 02:50:52 n1tn4tsn0k: depends. 02:52:22 You may use concatenate-string from cesarum: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/cesarum/string.lisp 02:52:51 (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum) (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.string:concatenate-strings strings) 02:53:01 But there are other implementations. 02:54:35 there's no package with name ql 02:54:52 ecl 02:56:12 you need to install it from http://quicklisp.org/ 02:56:26 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:06 x_x 02:57:27 Ok tomorrow. 02:57:34 Good night. 02:57:52 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.34.76.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:00:56 el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8CB1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 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has joined #lisp 04:00:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rxktsgrwhzxxsmfi] has joined #lisp 04:01:13 Any particular reason why SBCL pick Mersenne Twister for its rng? 04:02:30 A reasonable balance of quality and performance, iirc. 04:03:29 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:10:50 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:18 -!- resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:16:59 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:19:39 rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:45 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:22:21 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770CDA.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:25:32 OK 04:31:46 Why do you ask? 04:35:37 -!- mrSpec 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[~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:58:51 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2CF4F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:24 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 06:10:45 _3b, therep 06:12:28 <_3b> nope 06:18:41 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:59 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 06:30:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:59 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:31:21 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.63.193] has quit [Quit: if you're going....to san. fran. cisco!!!] 06:31:28 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 06:33:53 _3b, I've forgot the question.. 06:34:34 <_3b> heh, i'm about to go to sleep anyway, so that's OK :) 06:35:22 : -) 06:36:43 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:36:43 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 06:36:43 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:39:42 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77d5b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:44 Hello! 06:40:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:17 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 06:41:37 rpr [~asdfff@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 06:42:15 (prog1 (values 1 2 3) (do something after)) <- how to rewrite to return (values 1 2 3) instead of just 1? 06:42:30 <_3b> clhs m-v-p 06:42:48 MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_mult_1.htm 06:42:57 great thanks 06:49:49 good morning #lisp 06:55:05 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:32 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 07:01:21 pislocide 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GetLastError always returns 6, no matter what I do or how many times I call SetLastError. this is how I defined it. (defcfun ("GetLastError" :convention :stdcall) :long) 07:52:14 rpr: I don't do windows but two thoughts. Is DWORD long? and perhaps cffi does thread switching? 07:53:32 mal__ it's actually unsigned long, but result is the same even after making that change 07:55:02 what if it does thread switching? 07:55:53 is 32 bits long on windows? 07:56:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.86] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 07:56:39 yes 07:57:37 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:45 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-jgqvanfumqemfbyu] has joined #lisp 07:58:24 try :uint32 and see how that goes 07:58:27 mal__: IIRC only on 32bit windows ;) 07:59:52 I'm using 32bit windows 08:03:44 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BFCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:08 daniel [~daniel@p5082B0CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:09 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 08:07:22 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 08:08:50 flip214: hi 08:08:52 flip214: sys64738 08:08:54 In 2000 I heard that windows would be going P64LI32 ... is that really so? 08:09:11 Posterdati: I've relocated my ROM, there's only RET above 0xf000 08:09:29 do you mean rts 08:10:14 ah yes, sorry 08:10:18 it's RET on x86 08:18:02 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:32 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:23:36 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 08:23:39 drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 08:29:22 phadthai_ [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:23 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:55 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:28 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:41 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 08:35:50 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 08:36:40 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:38:16 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ktgdxehbhzsplnnq] has joined #lisp 08:38:27 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-27-33.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:29 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 08:42:16 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 08:44:00 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:45:06 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 08:45:16 -!- rpr [~asdfff@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 08:45:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-6-133.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:47 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-16-6.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:51:23 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-75-134.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:03 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:04:07 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:04:24 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: jeekl] 09:04:41 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:10:51 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:04 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 09:37:14 Hey. 09:37:26 I have problem with (directory ). 09:37:32 ls -1 /home/gonet9/mail/inbox/new | wc -l 09:37:32 1 09:37:42 * (directory "/home/gonet/mail/inbox/new/*") 09:37:45 NIL 09:37:46 Why? 09:39:26 why what? 09:39:51 It shouldn't return one-element list? 09:41:11 -!- zanea [~zanea@125-237-51-83.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:34 add^_ [~add^_^@h125n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:34 Any ideas? 09:47:08 otwieracz: what's the element returned by /home.../new? new itself? 09:47:18 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:24 otwieracz: what's the element returned by 'ls -1 /home.../new'? new itself? 09:47:56 1310722271.3128_0.ciastko 09:48:52 otwieracz: Did you look at the documentation for DIRECTORY? 09:49:20 zanea [~zanea@125-237-51-83.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 I don't know, it's not psychical pathname? 09:51:48 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:51:48 otwieracz: have you tried dropping the asterisk? 09:52:00 otwieracz: suffice to say that directory and friends is pretty ugly and you will find things behaving different on different implementations. Iirc there is a nice chapter on it in gigamonkey's book. 09:52:42 otwieracz: or using ".../*.*" instead of ".../*" 09:52:43 otwieracz: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-portable-pathname-library.html 09:53:07 otwieracz: experimenting with those might give you a clue 09:53:09 jdz: *.*.*, probably. 09:53:22 "..actually writing portable code that uses DIRECTORY to do something as simple as listing all the files and subdirectories in a single directory can be a frustrating experience.." 09:53:24 otwieracz: probably what? 09:53:27 (directory #P"/home/gonet9/mail/inbox/new/*.*.*" 09:53:29 And it works. 09:53:53 otwieracz: but do you understand why it works? 09:54:03 until you switch implementation ;) 09:55:14 otwieracz: instead of using a namesting, try making a pathname you want manually (using MAKE-PATHNAME) 09:55:24 jdz: but I don't know why asterisk don't match a dot :) 09:55:32 I'll try. 09:55:37 otwieracz: You could read the link I gave you. 09:56:05 otwieracz: because Common Lisp is not Unix shell 09:56:24 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:25 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:08:08 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:08 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:24 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:12:39 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:35 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:24:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:26:33 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 10:35:18 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.238] has joined #lisp 10:40:45 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754138.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:04 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-155-187.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:09:36 pnq [~nick@AC841ED9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:59 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:36 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:32 I've been going through the Guided Tour of the CLIM 2.0 - http://clemens.endorphin.org/a-guided-tour-of-CLIM-2006.pdf - and I'm having trouble on page 11 with the color editor. I see that the drag-callback calls a function color-slider-value-changed and that when the application-frame is called it evalutes this form, but there is another function on there called color-slider-dragged and I do not understand where exactly or how exactly it is ne 11:14:32 eded. Would any be able to give a rough estimation as to what its purpose is here? 11:17:31 i've commented it out, and there is no difference in how it runs. The current-color-pane stays the original green while the drag-feedback-pane adjusts when the sliders are moved. Why would this be in the guide if it was unnecessary? 11:19:57 nvm, I see it. The guide's author wanted me to use :value-change-callback as well as :drag-callback 11:21:42 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #lisp 11:22:57 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-155-187.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rxktsgrwhzxxsmfi] has left #lisp 11:27:40 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:38:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A48DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:37 hi 11:43:10 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:43:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:43:51 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has joined #lisp 11:46:41 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:55 -!- erk_ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:12 -!- koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:18 koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 11:48:14 erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 11:48:33 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:48:50 Has anyone read calendrical calculations? 11:49:21 Wonderful book, and all the code is written in Common Lisp. 11:49:30 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:55 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:05 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:49 Nice. 11:50:57 Good code? 11:51:21 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 11:51:55 http:/www.cambridge.org/us/9780521702386 11:52:07 Only for peronal use 11:52:51 personal 11:54:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:06 It cover pretty much all date systems of all times and converts between them. Say you are reading about the Napoleonic war and you want to correlate British dates to French you can. 11:55:29 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:55:51 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:55:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:57 http://emr.cs.iit.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/third-edition/ 11:56:06 Though I got the book 11:56:20 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [Quit: stitching servers] 11:59:20 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.123] has joined #lisp 11:59:30 Yes the code is good. Although he doesn't know the enum trick. wrapping the plist in a ( eval-when ...) and the execution in a #. Instead he uses a mother load of defconst's 12:02:58 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 12:03:18 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-238-74.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:29 Good initiation into deftype though 12:04:01 *Younder* thinks deftype is underused in CL 12:04:33 Younder: do you have an example for the enum trick? I can roughly imagine it, but would like an example 12:06:19 http://emr.cs.iit.edu/~reingold/calendar.l  that's the code 12:06:22 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:06:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 12:06:22 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:07:15 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:07:24 exeter [54fda812@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.253.168.18] has joined #lisp 12:07:25 (eval-when (:compile :eval) (defparam number '((one 1) (two 2) ..)) ... #.(fget number 'one).. 12:08:19 The number will be substituted at read time 12:08:54 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:09:46 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:11:29 Hum. Was (floor m n) not the same as (floor (/ m n)) before the standard? 12:11:32 On defparam is short for defparameter (defparam wont work) and I haven't tested it but I have used it befor and it does work. 12:13:19 -!- pnq [~nick@AC841ED9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:13:34 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: Toodle doo!] 12:16:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:23 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 12:23:28 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:30:20 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:30:51 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:33:18

12:35:20 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:39:55 calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-68-188.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:42:15 -!- calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-68-188.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:51 serichsen: second value differed in cltl2 anyway, I don't have a cltl1 to hand 12:42:56 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:58:28 calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-68-188.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:59:30 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:57 -!- dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:03:08 dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has joined #lisp 13:03:56 how does one break from an infinite loop in slime? C-g doesn't do it, neither does slime-repl-read-break. the only thing I can do is kill lisp process and restart slime 13:04:12 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@87.7.214.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04:20 C-c C-c might do it for you, or C-c C-b 13:05:03 it didn't 13:05:51 What CL are you using? 13:06:09 clisp currently 13:06:22 ah 13:06:24 On Windows? 13:06:43 doing that in *inferior-lisp* instead of *slime-repl clisp* does it 13:06:51 yes 13:07:22 *Xach* doesn't know what should be expected with that combo 13:07:30 Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:07:44 does it work for you in *slime-repl* buffer, or you have to switch to *inferior-lisp* buffer as well? 13:08:09 I use SBCL on Linux and it works in the repl. 13:08:34 I haven't tried it in windows. 13:10:45 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:22 -!- altctrldel [~windows7@64.291.511.08.ilec.adsl2.net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:11:54 -!- exeter [54fda812@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.253.168.18] has left #lisp 13:12:38 altctrldel [~windows7@64.291.511.08.ilec.adsl2.net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:18:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 13:23:05 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:26:37 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 13:26:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:01 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wthdtwkxpfplwukb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:36:02 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:41:32 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:42:15 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:44:14 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:26 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:46:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.108.108] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:38 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Sleeping] 13:51:20 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:51:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:51:48 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:49 -!- calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-68-188.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:26 I'm confused. 13:56:42 SNMP imports my MIB, and creates some symbols in ASN.1/... 13:57:12 I can inspect these and get "The object is a STANDARD-OBJECT of type ASN.1:OBJECT-ID." 13:57:21 but they are not variables ... 13:58:27 (type-of) gives ASN.1:OBJECT-ID ... 13:58:51 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:59:00 why can't I use that in source? I always get "undefined variable" 13:59:07 Type of what? 13:59:23 Why can't you use what? 13:59:50 there's a symbol ASN.1/...::|someName| 14:00:10 I can inspect it, use it as parameter in (ASN.1:list-children ) in the REPL 14:00:27 but the (ASN.1:list-children) call in source gives me an undefined variable error 14:00:51 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-148-231.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:01:29 In other words ... I've got an expression (ASN.1:list-children X) that works in the REPL 14:01:42 flip214: Really? list-children is not exported from my asn.1. 14:01:44 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-208-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:54 trying to evaluate a piece of code with that inside (iter (for ch in (asn.1:list-children))) gives an error 14:01:55 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:10 it's for me ... and I'm using current quicklisp ;) 14:02:11 *Xach* wonders if he needs to upgrade 14:02:12 snmp 6.0.1 14:02:25 don't you eat your own dog food? 14:02:50 I'm afraid I got that wrong ... what's the correct english saying for these things? 14:03:06 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:03:34 I am using snmp 6.0.1 but asn.1::list-children is not exported from asn.1. 14:05:24 do you have snmp, snmp-mib, snmp-server also loaded? 14:06:00 Nope. 14:08:01 Hmmm ... I get an "undefined variable" warning, but it works 14:08:08 I don't get it 14:08:26 flip214: Try pasting a transcript? I don't understand what you are writing on IRC. It seems incomplete. 14:10:02 I can't actually get it to load. 14:12:03 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:12:03 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dytadbeybjizaqcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:12:38 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 14:12:46 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:51 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 14:13:15 hmmm ... with |enterprises| I don't get this warning 14:13:20 perhaps it's my MIB file? 14:13:33 Xach: thank you nonetheless, for the moral support 14:13:40 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 14:15:39 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vzkomqsevannejxp] has joined #lisp 14:18:08 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:26 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-164-74.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:06 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:01 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 14:22:25 konr [~user@187.88.38.248] has joined #lisp 14:23:23 -!- konr [~user@187.88.38.248] has left #lisp 14:23:34 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-75-134.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:23:44 .o(men in black?) 14:25:46 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:34:49 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 14:35:52 Jasko2 [~tjasko@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 14:39:01 its almost 2012 14:39:43 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:25 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:40:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:57 so one of the dev's I'm trying to bring along in this lisp project is a hardcore vim user. are any of you using vim + slimv? 14:51:59 mekeor [~user@dslb-092-075-237-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:41 Fade: tell him to use viper-mode. :) 14:57:11 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-jgqvanfumqemfbyu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:19 loke [~elias@bb119-74-214-38.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:58:29 yeah, He set it up, but his windowmanager (sawfish) is capturing a bunch of emacs command keys. 14:59:11 it was already a political dogfight to get CL on this project; I'd like to make it as soft a landing as possible for all the people on the line. :) 14:59:57 atm, he's using a combination of emacs and vim and then manually (load ...)'ing code as he completes forms. 15:00:04 it's a mess, and certain to wear him out. 15:00:12 considering the better options available. :/ 15:00:30 oh my 15:00:52 even if slimv isn't at parity with slime it has to be better than that. 15:01:12 is that better than editing in vim and using the regular CLI + linedit? 15:01:21 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-80-39.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:01:28 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:33 Fade: have you seen rob warnock's advice on that topic? 15:01:43 Xach: nay 15:01:51 Fade: PG copy-pasted sexps into a clisp repl :) 15:01:58 Fade: The gist is "make your tools more supportive" and he lists some of the ways he did it for himself. 15:02:08 https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6e91e20f2f371b52?&noredirect 15:02:23 thanks for the pointer 15:03:03 particularly point 3 15:05:10 this may be about 60% my horror at watching him do this. 15:05:29 but he's coming out of a pretty deep python experience, and that shuffle is normative for him. 15:05:40 'course, I don't think it's the most productive use of his context switching. 15:07:23 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 15:08:41 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:35 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-148-231.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:58 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:11:36 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:11:45 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has joined #lisp 15:15:57 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 15:20:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:21:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:25 HG` [~HG@p579F75C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:40 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:24 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:29 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:25:07 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:26:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:28:09 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.190.38] has joined #lisp 15:30:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:34 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 15:34:56 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34:57 Xach: You there? 15:35:09 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:01 Packages confuse me part 2. Let's say I package #:package-a that exports function FOO, and in #:package-b, which uses #:package-a, I define a function FOO. When inside some function BAR, defined in #:package-b, that calls (foo), it calls the one that's in #:package-b, however, when I print out the SYMBOL-PACKAGE of 'FOO, I get #:package-a 15:36:06 This seems contradictory 15:37:46 No. 15:37:51 Not contradictory 15:37:55 herbieB: that's because since you imported FOO from :PACKAGE-1, when you did your DEFUN of FOO, you actually defunned a function in PACKAGE-A 15:38:30 herbieB: Or said in a different way, package-a doesn't export any functions, it exports a symbol. 15:38:32 In PACKAGE-B, when you type FOO you still refer to the FOO in PACKAGE-A 15:38:32 loke: Oh, of course, i see 15:39:15 So does this mean package-a::foo and package-b::foo will point to the same symbol? 15:39:24 herbieB: no 15:39:38 : for exported symbols 15:40:37 didn't Xach write an article on this 15:41:29 beach: I understand that. So I guess package-a:foo and package-b::foo point to the same function then 15:41:58 oGMo: yes, you're right 15:42:05 I mean 15:42:08 herbieB: yes, you're right 15:42:08 Wait, this prints out PACKAGE-A: (format t "~A~%" (symbol-package 'package-b::foo)) 15:42:13 loke: hi 15:42:24 hello xach. I just had a weird behaviour in QL 15:42:37 loke: regarding f2cl or gbbopen? 15:42:45 Xach: nah 15:42:47 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 15:42:48 what's up? 15:43:34 Xach: I just did an UPDATE-ALL-DISTS, and the download of one package hung. I interrupted it, and tried again. At that time UPDATE-ALL-DISTS said I'm up to date 15:43:48 Xach: But I'm not, right? Since it never finished downlaoding everything 15:43:55 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:04 loke: well, it doesn't matter much. 15:44:12 loke: the important thing is that it got the metadata files. 15:44:19 ok 15:44:31 ;=p 15:44:36 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:44:42 loke: after the update, it tries to re-fetch everything you had before, but if it doesn't succeed, it will fetch them on demand. 15:44:58 Xach: but you're right. f2cl didn't work 15:45:04 (just tried becuase you mentioned it) 15:45:10 I didn't even know f2cl existed :-) 15:45:44 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Sleeping] 15:47:16 Is there a c2cl by the way? 15:47:35 In what way does f2cl not work? 15:47:41 -!- armence_ [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:51 rtoym: quicklisp metadata error on my part 15:47:56 rtoym: I just tried quickliading it, it goves me error 15:48:13 Oh, ok. Not my problem then. :-) 15:48:51 I guess ecl and gcl could be considered c2cl, if you ask them to save the resulting CL file. 15:51:39 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 15:52:08 I din't rally have any use for them. I was just curious if they existed 15:52:17 and by the way, GCL is dead, isn' tit? 15:52:36 Wiki says no releases since 2k5 but active CVS development for GCL 15:53:01 GCL is not useful as a general-purpose CL system 15:53:44 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:54:07 resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 15:54:11 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:19 Elench`: some time ago I casually checked the gCL mailing list. There was a message or so every few months 15:54:36 One of which was a message about a bug fixed 15:54:44 but it looks pretty dead to me 15:54:46 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:54:56 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 15:56:13 Then i should stop believing wikipedia 15:56:22 Probably a good choice in general 15:58:00 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:58:03 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:42 idk. i used to think guile is dead, but it has become very active in the past couple of years. 16:00:15 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:23 Thanks to Andy Wingo and others, yes. Guile is not a CL though... :) 16:00:23 s/is/was 16:00:48 And ... no release in 5-6 years == dead to me... 16:00:57 anyhow GCL is a lisp, but I don't think it's a conformant Common Lisp. 16:01:12 the only system that ever really used it was maxima. 16:01:58 Fade: Well, GCL doesn't even have CLOS, so I tend to agree with you. 16:02:25 I thought it had a rudimentary closette impl. 16:02:26 And these days it's impossible to be a serious Lisp without CLOS 16:02:30 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:03 hell, I remember asking the death question about cmucl a few years ago. 16:03:21 Fade: what was the answer? :-) 16:03:39 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:52 i believe the answer was "rotoym would probably beg to differ." 16:04:33 what's main difference between sbcl and cmucl? 16:04:55 sbcl is saner to bootstrap. 16:04:59 is the legend about the fork. 16:05:31 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ktgdxehbhzsplnnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:05:31 I came to CL in anger long after that happened, though. I've only ever used the sbcl side of the family. 16:05:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 16:05:43 same for me 16:05:48 fade: what anger btw? 16:05:52 *Xach* started with CMUCL and ILISP 16:05:54 'for real' 16:05:59 ah 16:06:02 same for me 16:06:03 ie, to use for real work. 16:06:21 *Xach* is so happy he didn't do that long before sbcl and slime came around 16:06:31 I had been toying around with Lisp since... hmm... the early 90's, but it wasn't until I discovered quicklisp that I actually started using it for real 16:06:57 heh 16:07:03 I read a copy of the little lisper a long time ago, and it stuck in the back of my head. 16:07:04 I still remember having Xlisp installed on our old UniStride 16:07:16 -!- fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:07:16 fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has joined #lisp 16:07:17 I ultimately just got fed up with how my toolchain worked, and decided to try out CL. 16:07:25 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 16:07:30 Fade: what toochain was that? 16:07:33 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-164-74.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:07:54 standard batch processing toolchain: emacs + c and emacs + python and emacs + shell 16:08:10 Hm 16:08:11 Ah 16:08:31 I've used Java with IDEA for a long time. It's still an awesome environment, but Lisp is just refreshing 16:09:00 java has made me itchy from the first time I saw the code for one of those craplets that were supposed to take over the world. 16:09:33 *zmv* thinks of saying "lol emacs" but remembers that this is #lisp 16:10:08 Fade: well, applets always sucked 16:10:18 Java is nice though. 16:10:25 fsvo 'nice' 16:10:26 Lisp is a different thing though 16:11:16 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@97-125-204-88.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:11:29 well, having a very strict statically typed language has advantages when working on large projects with many developers. Changing the name of a class for example is hell in most languages (especially Lisp), but a one keypress action in Java 16:11:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:03 how about changing the structure of a class? 16:12:46 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:13:16 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:13:18 fade: that's also remarkably easy in Java. In Lisp it depends on that change you're making 16:13:32 But then again, these comparisons aren't fair to either language 16:13:38 The development style is so different 16:13:39 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:13:58 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 16:14:09 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:15:29 every language has pain points. 16:15:34 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 for lisp it's deployment in non-server environments. 16:15:39 loke: I think you may be being disingenuous here. Every large company I've worked with that uses java makes heavy use of Spring, which negates the kind of static strictness you laud, mainly because that "feature" is a burden. 16:16:20 herbieB: SPring is an utter piece of garbage, and let me tell you not all companies use it 16:16:37 Fade: that's a pain point for many if nott most languages 16:16:45 Thankfully people are realising it now, which is something I've preached for years. 16:16:49 sometimes I miss the refactoring tools in eclipse 16:16:56 Fade: Fortunately, that requirement is going the way of the dodo :) 16:17:01 antifuchs: Eclipse is another piece of utter and complete garbage 16:17:12 loke: I'm sorry that I like something that you despise. 16:17:15 And yes, I've even written plugins for eclipse 16:17:38 antifuchs: Don't take me wrong. Compared to many other tools, Eclipse isn't bad 16:18:01 note also that I didn't say I miss eclipse. the refactoring stuff it has works very well, though. 16:18:05 antifuchs: However, did you try IDEA? (I'm asking, because I have to admit I have never met a person who has tried both and tuck with Eclipse) 16:18:09 better than I've seen a lisp IDE work (: 16:18:15 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 16:18:21 loke: I guess the point is that java does not preclude that kind of hassle, it's java + good development habits like not using Class.forName regularly. Well, if we say language + good habits makes thigns easy, we can say that CL doesn't suffer either. 16:18:46 I've tried it, but by then I was writing an eclipse-plugin-y app, so idea was too painful 16:18:54 herbieB: Yeah. Which is why I said that it's unfair to make the comparison. The way you develop applications in Lisp is so different. 16:19:27 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ytyndvnyezuishnq] has joined #lisp 16:19:33 My kingdom for the method to get all the slots of a class at runtime. I have been poring over the hyperspec for 20 minutes now. 16:20:03 anyway. being able to compile code in any order and resolve dependencies afterwards, or look up static promises is sometimes a nice thing to have in a language (: 16:20:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:20:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:20:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:20:34 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-185-178.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:34 herbieB: class-slots? It's in the MOP, you won't find that in the hyperspec. 16:20:54 bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 pkhuong: Bah 16:21:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ytyndvnyezuishnq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:20 Can anyone tell me how to produce wildcards with make-pathname? 16:21:40 otwieracz: (make-pathname :name :wild :type "txt") is an example. 16:21:59 Yeah, but I want to match everything in directory. 16:22:01 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-slsviiwnhqvzzirt] has joined #lisp 16:22:25 otwieracz: (make-pathnane :name :wild :type :wild) might do the trick for you. 16:22:33 Oh. 16:22:33 otwieracz: "everything" will depend on the implementation you're using. 16:23:05 qxzy [4e46f6f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.70.246.244] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:24:55 H4ns [~user@p4FFC8A19.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:23 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 16:27:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:17 it really is a shame the MOP never got put into some ANSI CL revision 16:27:23 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has joined #lisp 16:27:28 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:49 So portability and mop may not mix, hm. 16:27:59 closer-mop 16:28:23 closer-mop 16:28:26 oh, oops :) 16:28:41 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:29:24 AMOP is required reading. 16:30:56 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:03 mon_key pasted "com.dvlsoft.clon -- QL compile error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123289 16:31:34 Xach: Are you aware of any bugs re com.dvlsoft.clon? I just got a compiler error w/ backtrace at paste above 16:32:09 is that different than the 'clon' package? 16:32:33 zfx [~zfx@host-78-149-133-116.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:33 -!- zfx [~zfx@host-78-149-133-116.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:32:33 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 16:33:00 mon_key: I am not aware. 16:33:19 Fade: AFAICT that is didier V 16:33:40 Fade: as opposed to the task scheduling clon [: 16:33:56 we've got a serious namespace polution in the 'clon' area. 16:34:56 Indeed, I got a big fat lispy cron into my image before realizing i'd asked for the wrong package... 16:35:07 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:35:46 What's the right way of collecting data from mapc? 16:35:56 mapcar? 16:36:51 Hm 16:36:52 map 'list ? 16:37:04 Thank you. 16:37:08 Iceland_jack:  16:37:09 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:11 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:00 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 mon_key annotated #123289 "different machine different SBCL " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123289#1 16:41:36 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:41:48 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Client Quit] 16:43:07 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:43:14 loke: there's no c2cl, but there's a c2LispMachineLisp: Zeta-C. However, it would require a lot of work to port it to CL. 16:44:06 -!- dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:44:35 pjb: where is that? 16:47:23 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-173-77-24-106.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:47 google for it. 16:47:58 http://www.cliki.net/Zeta-C 16:48:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:48:44 Wasn't vsedach working on adapting that to a new project... 16:48:48 Vacietis! 16:49:12 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 16:49:26 loke: https://github.com/vsedach/Vacietis/blob/master/README 16:49:41 Fade: https://github.com/vsedach/Vacietis/blob/master/README 16:50:20 why, seriously? 16:51:05 pkhuong: Hey, don't look at me. :) 16:51:20 I think he explained it in a hackernews comment somewhere... 16:52:15 interesting. 16:52:50 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 16:53:31 thanks 16:53:37 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 16:54:50 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:54:55 redline6561_: if you're talkinga about http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2420102 that's hardly an explanation. it just seems like he's a masochist. 16:55:11 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:18 I think vsedach is just interested in compilers. 16:55:31 felideon: I'm googling too and while I found that it's not what I had in mind... 16:55:35 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-170-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:51 Fade, redline6561_: I see. :) 16:55:58 Fade: Me too but I don't think my first project would be to dive into C99->Lisp. :P 16:56:10 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 16:56:11 Then again, I'm dumber, less experienced and less well-read than vsedach probably. 16:56:19 I guess technically his first dive as far as I know was lisp -> javascript 16:56:20 :) 16:56:33 so he isn't without a trackrecord. 16:57:29 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:52 Fade: Good point. 16:58:02 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-208-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:58:21 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:59:38 although segv did write the original parenscript, if my memory hasn't just totally faulted. 16:59:53 I don't think I'd do it via zeta-c either. 16:59:55 s/did/didn't 17:00:02 I wonder if segv is ever coming back to programming. 17:00:11 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:12 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00:41 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:00:44 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00:44 Fade: I wasnt exactly sure what you were talking about, but I figured parenscript. and you're right, he's the maintainer not original creator 17:01:40 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:02:35 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 What's amusing is that C has a segmented memory model. :) 17:05:02 :) 17:05:36 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:06:59 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:37 How to flatten list to string? 17:09:49 eg. (list "foo" "bar") to "foobar". 17:10:05 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 17:10:29 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.76] has joined #lisp 17:10:29 otwieracz: there are many ways. 17:10:44 otwieracz: one ways is (apply #'concatenate 'string (list "foo" "bar")) 17:10:46 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:55 Suppose I have a huge population of test cases and a bunch of algorithms I want to benchmark against the test cases. It will take to long to run all the algorithms against all the test cases. Can someone explain in small words how I know I've taken a big enough sample to get statistically significant results? 17:10:57 (format nil "~{~A~}" lst) is my favorite 17:12:17 herbieB: thank you. 17:13:05 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 -!- d2biG is now known as dRbiG 17:13:44 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:13:47 gigamonkey: what's the question that you'll be asking about the algorithms? 17:15:05 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-42.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:17 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:15:23 well, zeta-c is a beast. 17:15:23 How fast they are. 17:16:05 I have 60,000 sudoku and 36 variant algorithms for solving them. 17:16:05 gigamonkey: and the question would be is the speed difference between algorithms A and B statistically significant? 17:16:16 pkhuong: I think that's it. 17:16:45 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:16:45 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 17:16:46 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d04930d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:03 Basically I can run the faster algorithms on all of them but first I want to run all the algorithms on a sample that's big enough to demonstrate that the slow ones are actually slow enough to ignore in the more in depth analysis. 17:17:12 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.74.250] has joined #lisp 17:17:47 I think I was told to do something like: take a small random subset to estimate the variances and mean differences, and then use that to estimate how large of a subset you'd need for a t-test at the p you want. 17:17:51 giga: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm 17:17:56 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:19 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:18:21 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-170-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:18:31 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:59 but, ime, that abstracts too much information away, and I'd much rather have a graph that shows the % of instances solved in at most t seconds, even if across a smaller set of instances. 17:19:15 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Client Quit] 17:19:22 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 17:19:53 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:10 gigamonkey: would it be too many unknowns to use acl2? 17:20:26 qxzy: probably. 17:20:42 I just want to apply a little statistical sophistication which I only know enough to know I lack. 17:20:53 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:21:06 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:08 giga: See the link I provided above. 17:21:45 That should get you started with estimating sample sizes for a given population for a given confidence interval and level. 17:22:12 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:22:16 Zhivago: yeah, playing with it. But how do I set those two variables? 17:22:30 paradoja [~Paradoja@acceso-cmp174-190.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:35 Other than fiddling with them till I get a sample size I like. ;-) 17:22:49 Well, you know the population of tests that you want to represent. 17:23:01 -!- paradoja [~Paradoja@acceso-cmp174-190.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:08 And ... 17:23:30 Now you pick the +/- error rate that you're happy with, and that's your confidence interval. 17:24:16 Zhivago: that's only for a yes/no question. 17:24:26 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 17:24:28 He asked for something simple. 17:24:45 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-170-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:24:50 It's a starting point if you're interested in going further down that track. 17:25:03 But it's not the track gigamonkey wants to take. 17:25:27 He wants to know the representative sample size for a survey. 17:26:46 there's no single "representative sample size". It depends on what you want to know. 17:26:55 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:26 The representative sample size for a survey depends on the survey, yes ... 17:27:31 So presumably what I want to know is "What is the mean time to solve any sudoku puzzle?" 17:27:39 (For a given algorithm.) 17:28:15 And then I want to pick a big enough sample that I can be confident my mean on the sample is not more than a few % off from what the mean would be if I ran the algorithm on every puzzle I have. 17:28:38 zeugma [~user@c-75-72-178-212.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:12 zfx [~zfx@host-78-149-133-116.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:12 -!- zfx [~zfx@host-78-149-133-116.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:29:12 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:29:26 Is there any legitimate approach that involves solving random puzzles until the mean stops changing more than a certain amount? 17:30:07 Yes, but that's liable to underestimate the variance. 17:30:30 Probably curve fitting within a confidence interval. 17:30:55 Which can be simplified if you assume a particular probability distribution. 17:31:12 but, really, wouldn't you expect there to be a wide gamut of solving times, depending on the puzzles' difficulty? 17:31:57 pkhuong: from puzzle to puzzle, for any given algorithm certainly. 17:31:57 I'd start by plotting out the probability distribution and seeing if it looks normal. 17:32:05 http://www.prconline.com/education/tools/statsignificance/index.asp 17:32:13 But overall some algorithms are much slower than others. 17:32:26 If it's a weird shape, then there are curve fitting system that will do it. 17:32:31 gigamonkey: that's why I suggested to test whether the difference in time between algorithms is significant. 17:32:38 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:00 pkhuong: I see. 17:34:00 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:34:22 If it looks like a normal distribution, then it gets a lot easier. :) 17:34:54 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:35:03 jjkola [~jjkola@syi-ogw1-3000.syi.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:35:48 otherwise you could be stuck with a situation that looks like solving times vary so wildly that you can't tell anything, but the vast majority of the difference is caused by the instances themselves rather than by the different algorithms (you could normalize values, but I'm really not good enough at this to tell what the effect would be). 17:37:31 drks [~drks@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 17:37:55 Hmmm. Maybe I'll just get pragmatic and run the benchmarks on as many random puzzles as I have time for. ;-) 17:38:21 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:38:28 gigamonkey: just make sure to use the same instance set for all the algorithms ;) 17:39:09 hello. I used (typep obj 'someclass) in a function file2 and it yelled at me that someclass is not defined, even before I made any calls to that function. what's up with that? 17:39:27 class is defined in file1, which depends on functions in file2 17:39:52 drks: "yelled"? You had a style-warning? That's what it is. You're using typep on a type that's not defined. It may or may not be an error. 17:40:12 let me check again what I got 17:40:19 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 17:40:44 drks: and if it's what pkhuong says, then it should just work 17:41:10 pkhuong: definitely. 17:41:37 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:42:05 I can't reproduce the error now 17:42:15 or possibly the warning 17:42:22 drks: the type has been defined now. 17:42:36 I'm using COMMAND-LINE-ARGUMENTS with specification option like this: 17:42:40 ("multi-arg" :type string :list t :optional t) 17:42:52 I started new repl 17:43:08 I must be doing something wrong because I get diagnostics seemingly random 17:43:19 then I load the files again and they disappear 17:43:35 is it ok to have two files depending on one another? 17:43:53 sure. 17:44:06 file1 calling functions from file2, vice versa, using classes defined in each, etc 17:44:07 It's just a style warning. If you know everything is ok, ignore it. 17:44:07 all ok? 17:44:11 sure. 17:44:12 this lets me do --multi-arg "a" --multi-arg "b" --multi-arg "c" to get the list ("a" "b" c") from the argv 17:44:17 ok then 17:44:42 drks: Like file1 <-> file2 ? 17:44:49 add^_ yes 17:45:18 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:45:23 Is there some way using COMMAND-LINE-ARGUMENTS to do something equivalent to --multi-arg "a" "b" "c" in order to get the same list ("a" "b" "c")? 17:46:02 drks: Actually, I don't know the answer, but I'd assume it could cause problems, like if a function is needed when compiling the first file but it exists in the other file and so on... But honestly I don't know.. 17:46:35 I guess if pkhuong says it's ok, it's ok. :-P 17:48:04 add^_: it's ok, lisp is smart enough 17:48:24 madnificent: Nice. 17:48:46 madnificent: Thanks for clearing that up for me! :-) 17:49:02 And possibly for drks too. ;-) 17:49:19 add^_: but sbcl warns you, because there's a good chance that you've made a typo (or forgot to define the function or ...) 17:49:50 pkhuong: does the spec say anything about the warning? does a conforming implementation have to throw it? 17:50:15 Ah 17:50:17 I thought requiring --multi-arge to be a string and then passing some sort of magic tokens around that string on the cli and letting CL split the list up elsewhere, but --multi-arg represents path-like stuff and I can't think of any really clean symbols that won't be a bitch to parse/disambiguate. 17:50:44 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 17:51:24 drks: in CLOS, methods are not attached to classes, and functions are irrelevant to classes. 17:51:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-slsviiwnhqvzzirt] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:51:41 drks: therefore nothing prevents you to define all the classes first, and to define the generic functions and their method second. 17:52:05 drks: meaning: instead of having file1 file2, you should have classes functions. 17:52:29 (and also before that, packages and macros). 17:52:58 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:48 madnificent: style warnings aren't even warnings. An implementation can use them for just about anything, including the use of socially inappropriate variable names. 17:55:06 pjb you mean have all the macros in one file, all classes in another, all methods in third one etc? 17:55:32 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:56:17 drks: yes. 17:56:23 what about macros though, can you have macros in two separate files, with file1 using macros from file2 and vice versa? 17:56:31 i guess that's not possible 17:56:43 drks: even in the same file, that's not possible. 17:56:53 well, you could, but then compilation becomes more complicated: you need to load the files before compiling them. 17:56:58 and also, it's implementation dependant. 17:57:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 17:57:16 except if by "use" you mean expand into. 17:57:31 drks: now, you can put all those thinks in the same files, but you must be careful with the dependencies. 17:57:40 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:58 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:58:12 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:58:24 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 17:58:41 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:58:56 drks: in some hairy cases, you can redefine a class: (defclass class1 () ()) (defclass class2 (...) (...)) ... (defclass class1 (...) (...) ... 17:59:27 when would you need to do that? 17:59:32 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-177-244.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:59 when the first toplevel ... needs to make reference to class1, but class1 needs to make reference to things in that first toplevel ... . 18:00:22 pkhuong: thanks 18:00:44 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-177-244.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:01:03 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:55 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:06:28 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.243.11] has joined #lisp 18:07:42 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:07:51 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.23] has joined #lisp 18:09:13 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 18:09:46 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 18:16:09 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:16:35 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F75C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:06 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:12 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:22:39 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:24:03 pera [~arpe@186.136.124.175] has joined #lisp 18:27:01 So there was a meeting at work...but I finally found what I was looking for. 18:27:10 felideon, Fade, pkhuong: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1878608 18:27:30 That's the closest thing I ever saw to a rationale for the effort. 18:31:07 vladimir s ): 18:32:07 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:36 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 antifuchs: Huh? 18:40:43 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:41:12 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:41:56 mon_key annotated #123289 "problem due to SBCL ASDF changes??" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123289#2 18:44:27 LiamH [~liam@or-67-76-146-31.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 my kingom 18:47:58 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Sleeping] 18:49:08 every once in awhile, I look at this window and have no idea what you maniacs are talking about. 18:49:40 maybe pkhuong needs a horse? 18:51:22 no, just a tramp mode that doesn't completely freeze up emacs when connectivity becomes atrocious. 18:52:29 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:36 my kingdom for a parallel emacs. 18:53:57 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:05 -!- LiamH [~liam@or-67-76-146-31.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 18:54:11 prob. about as frustrating as the latest xulrunner/mozilla crap that are somehow hitting the ATI kernel mode gpu drivers and freezing the entire OS while some image trickles in over the network _slowly_ ... 18:54:27 Fade: I posted the link I was looking for earlier re: Vacietis, Zeta-C...and everything has been incoherent since. :) 18:55:02 yeah, I just read through the thread. :) 18:55:24 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 -!- bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:02 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:57:03 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.190.38] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 18:57:35 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.190.38] has joined #lisp 18:58:52 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:41 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:46 -!- zeugma [~user@c-75-72-178-212.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:00:00 kisp [~user@e179038235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:01:16 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-156.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:01:33 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:01:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.23] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:02:42 -!- Younder [~john@86.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:46 -!- qxzy [4e46f6f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.70.246.244] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11:09 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:15:14 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Sleeping] 19:17:25 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:36:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:28 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:32 -!- Elench` is now known as Elench 19:37:42 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:38:26 lanthan [~ze@p54B7D7D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A30EF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:18 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:46:14 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:15 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:12 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:51:41 -!- kisp [~user@e179038235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:49 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 19:51:49 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:14 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 redline6561_: the hacker news thread... it has vsedach in it 19:55:29 is that a sufficient condition for sadness? 19:55:39 I think it is 19:56:25 benny [~benny@i577A1F5A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:27 didn't he write the article in question? 19:57:41 -!- tomaw_ is now known as tomaw 19:58:48 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 20:02:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754138.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:21 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:45 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:46 -!- pera [~arpe@186.136.124.175] has left #lisp 20:12:33 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:17:19 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:17 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:19:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-16-6.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:42 rakete_ [~rakete@static.228.2.63.178.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:09 -!- rakete_ is now known as rakete 20:23:48 hi, I just started playing around with emacs+slime and lisp (clozure), and I am wondering if there is a way to make slime automatically restart/reconnect whenever the lisp process dies or something similar? 20:24:09 -!- drks [~drks@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 20:24:20 I want to use opengl, and running the examples so far has only resulted in dieing lisp processes for me 20:24:30 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:24:40 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:24:49 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 20:25:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:25:43 ideally making lisp just not die would probably the best solution 20:25:52 rakete: OS X? 20:25:57 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 20:25:58 linux 20:26:04 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:26:04 x86_64 20:27:09 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has joined #lisp 20:27:16 There are sometimes issues with threads and opengl. 20:27:19 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:24 Have you tried running the examples from *inferior-lisp*? 20:28:04 I tried running them from the clozure repl, without slime 20:28:13 same thing happened 20:28:27 francogrex [~user@109.130.208.241] has joined #lisp 20:28:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-16-6.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:28:46 I am not sure lisp is really the problem, primarly I am wondering if there is a way to handle errors like that somehow with slime 20:28:56 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 20:29:10 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 20:29:51 paste the error? Then again, clozure spawns a couple threads automatically. 20:30:20 so another lisp might be a better choice if I want to work with opengl? 20:30:45 Depends on the error. I don't know CCL that well, so I'm very much stabbing in the dark right now. 20:32:14 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 20:32:25 http://hpaste.org/49083 20:33:24 I've seen those BadWindow errors in the past, I have no real idea what they mean because they were never an issue 20:33:31 *_3b* would guess driver problems, unless the gl code is trying to do something unusual 20:33:40 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:35:08 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:35:12 as for the quit, you'll have to convince freeglut not to abort on errors 20:35:34 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:00 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:39:18 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.74.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:12 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:47 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:14 rakete: M-x slime RET and answer n ; or type , restart RET in the slime buffer. 20:43:27 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h125n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:43:56 Yes, it's not lisp that's dying, it's the C code called thru ffi... 20:46:50 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:47:14 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 20:47:44 pjb: restart does not work after slime lost the connection, I can only do M-x slime and then load the asdf package again 20:47:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-156.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:21 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 20:49:21 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:29 ideally it would be completely transparent, I evaluate something in my lisp file and when there is no connection, it just starts slime and loads everything it needs 20:50:28 rakete: that's hard to determine ("loads everything it needs") 20:50:57 I wouldn't mind writing it down somewhere on a per project basis 20:52:53 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.208.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:03 rakete: that's what asdf is for. Define a system for your project, and can just load that project in. 20:53:10 I guess thats what .asd files are, but still, I need to type (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'cl-glut-examples) 20:53:30 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:55 and I can probably add that to .ccl-init.lisp 20:54:02 rakete: or (require 'cl-glut-examples), if your implementation supports that. 20:54:50 mmh, well I am going to try another lisp, to see if that fixes my freeglut problem 20:55:12 are there any recommendations for someone who wants to use opengl+ffi? 20:55:54 (there are other libs I'd like to use, I am afraid I am hoping to use lisp as some sort of binding language) 20:56:54 *_3b* uses sbcl, but i wouldn't expect lisp implementation to matter for that error 20:57:14 <_3b> did you paste the code you were calling anywhere? 20:58:17 https://github.com/3b/cl-opengl/blob/master/examples/redbook/cube.lisp 20:58:36 rakete: well, you have the right person to help you 20:58:57 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-zdndqdcelmafvdtn] has joined #lisp 20:59:06 and I tried just evaluating the (defclass ...) statement and then tried evaluating (glut:display-window (make-instance 'cube-window)) 21:00:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:01:42 <_3b> rakete: maybe paste the output of glxinfo somewhere? 21:03:35 http://hpaste.org/49086 21:03:56 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:28 <_3b> hmm, should work with nv binary drivers 21:04:42 <_3b> are you maybe running a 32bit list and didn't install nv 32bit gl drivers? 21:04:47 <_3b> *32bit lisp 21:05:02 no, everything should be 64bit 21:05:17 clozure-version_1.7-dev-r14869__(linuxx8664)-linux-x86-64 21:05:26 <_3b> (machine-type) in the lisp should tell you for sure 21:05:40 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:06:00 CL-USER> (machine-type) 21:06:02 "x86_64" 21:06:05 <_3b> ok 21:06:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:48 <_3b> do any of the other cl-glut examples work? 21:06:54 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:02 -!- Intensity [3NQQAHCu6f@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:07:02 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:07:02 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:07:11 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:46 pnq [~nick@172.129.54.186] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@cpe-75-186-131-224.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:21 rb-hello just did not 21:08:38 the problem is always glut:display-window 21:09:12 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:09:46 zfx [~zfx@host-78-149-133-116.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:46 -!- zfx [~zfx@host-78-149-133-116.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:09:46 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 21:09:51 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:09:51 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.243.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:49 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 21:12:09 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:29 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:57 <_3b> rakete: does glxgears or other non-lisp gl app work? 21:15:47 yes 21:16:18 rosario [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:21 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|fkn_away_nick 21:20:33 Intensity [aAERzbcdXs@panix5.panix.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:22:51 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 21:24:41 am i understanding the following correctly? did TIOCGHAYESESP disappear after kernel 2.6.35 21:24:42 http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ident?v=2.6.35;i=TIOCGHAYESESP 21:26:19 -!- rosario [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:22 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 21:26:48 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 21:26:54 ^^^ apropos the earlier query re com.dvlsoft.clon and probably equally applicable to lineedit terminfo etc. 21:27:03 <_3b> rakete: hmm, don't know what is wrong... maybe try changing :single to :double or :rgb to :rgba in the class def? 21:27:23 <_3b> rakete: maybe also ls -l /usr/lib/libGL.so* and see if those look reasonable 21:29:03 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:29:30 HG` [~HG@p579F75C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:03 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-173-77-24-106.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:48 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:33:49 _3b: libGL.so is pointing to mesa/libGL.so, that doesn't look right 21:34:51 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:35:52 <_3b> yeah, that looks wrong 21:36:08 well, pointing it to /usr/lib/nvidia-current/libGL.so seems to fix the problem 21:36:09 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 21:36:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:02 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@cpe-75-186-131-224.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 21:38:17 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 21:38:37 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Sleeping] 21:40:09 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:41:16 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:59 -!- Intensity [aAERzbcdXs@panix5.panix.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:43:00 Intensity [aAERzbcdXs@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:46:34 _3b: thanks for helping me out, I think everything should work now 21:49:36 -!- vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:35 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:03 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@syi-ogw1-3000.syi.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 21:52:18 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:53:53 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:54:27 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-207-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:54:52 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:22 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:03:24 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77d5b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:07:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:09:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:26 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:04 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F75C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:13 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 22:24:13 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:43 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:33 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:09 trigen [57d190d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 22:26:56 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:31 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:20 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:36:22 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:40:46 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47:15 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:48:36 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:43 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:50:05 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:51:58 Is this a legitimate way to signal an error for GETF: 22:52:15 (getf `,(funcall #'error "not found")) 22:54:03 No. 22:55:58 sorry about that. I was thining with my eval cap on. 22:57:16 -!- trigen [57d190d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:59 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-80-39.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:59:19 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-80-39.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 22:59:53 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:34 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B0CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:59 daniel [~daniel@p5082B0CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:39 -!- dabd [~dabd@a85-139-207-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:11:32 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:11:50 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:30 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 23:13:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:15:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:48 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:48 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:15 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:03 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:17 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Quit: Bah] 23:24:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F5A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:27 -!- mekeor [~user@dslb-092-075-237-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: cu] 23:27:56 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:30:57 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:31:12 It's legitimate to write what you wrote, but it doesn't do what you want. 23:32:52 timack [~tim@hlfx59-1-49.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:34:07 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:34:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:34:29 No, its a bastard stepchild of a long week. {: 23:36:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:37:57 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:27 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:38 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:03 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:43:44 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:04 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 23:47:34 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:47 zmv_ [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:51:35 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-123-104.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:52:53 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:45 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 23:54:20 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:59:15 Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:28 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:59:59 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving]