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[Quit: Leaving...] 01:46:19 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:15 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:47:46 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx58-2a-227.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:16 timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-69.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 01:48:21 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 01:51:57 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:45 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.48.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.123.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:24 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:57:18 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:10 frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 01:59:08 hello. I have asdf system that depends on foo package. how can I execute (foo:enable-some-syntax) in .asd file during runtime? 02:00:04 what I mean is, after all the files are loaded (or at least after foo is loaded), I want to execute (foo:enable-some-syntax) 02:00:35 I'm guessing eval-when can do it, but looking at it's documentation I can't figure out how 02:01:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:02 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:03:48 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-69.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:03:55 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:24 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 02:07:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:09:41 frx: is it needed for the ASDF file or for your code? 02:10:31 for my code, and for use in repl. would be nicer if it was executed automatically instead of having to manually type that every time 02:11:45 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:12:17 frx: well, for your code just put that line a top the source file (dependencies will be fully loaded first), for REPL you can always make yourself a file that would contain code to load the foo package then execute foo:enable-syntax 02:12:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:33 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:13:21 (def method perform ((o asdf:load-op) (c (eql (asdf:find-system :your-system)))) #|..stuff..|#) ;; maybe? 02:13:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:13:33 what the space 02:13:46 argiopeweb [~elliot@175.40.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 02:14:06 (defmethod perform :after ((o asdf:load-op) (c (eql (asdf:find-system :your-system)))) #|..stuff..|#) ;; maybe? 2.0 02:14:41 -!- algorist [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:14 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.221.71] has joined #lisp 02:15:16 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:17:20 algorist [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 02:18:38 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:09 Posterdati [~tapioca@87.7.214.245] has joined #lisp 02:19:27 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 02:20:15 -!- m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:23:50 -!- beach` is now known as beach 02:30:29 Good morning everyone! 02:31:48 Morning. 02:32:01 is there a way to make &key has presedence over optional in here? (defun foo (&optional x &key y) (values x y)) <- I want (foo :y 10) to return (values nil 10) 02:32:13 precedence* 02:32:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:32:20 No. 02:32:37 That's why mixing &optional and &key is a bad idea. 02:32:53 (Despite a small handful of functions in the language itself that do it.) 02:33:27 so what should i do, parse arguments myself? or just think of a different approach 02:33:54 Why not just make them both keyword args? 02:36:45 doesn't fit with the way i imagined function. maybe I'm overcomplicating it. this is what I'm doing btw (defun move-window (window point-or-x &optional y &key redraw) 02:37:11 (move-window win 0 0). (move-window win (make-point 0 0)) and :redraw being an optional parameter to both 02:37:31 I vote for overcomplicating. 02:38:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:07 yes :P. so what interface do you suggest? I wanted to accept both x and y as ints, and a point structure 02:38:08 Y is optional when POINT-OR-X is a point? 02:38:16 yes 02:38:37 I think you just bite the bullet and require a point. 02:39:11 Or you can do (defun move-window (window &key point x y redrow)) 02:40:57 nixfreak [~nixfreak@71-10-81-151.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:26 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4F4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:45 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:44:39 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 02:47:07 -!- nixfreak [~nixfreak@71-10-81-151.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:50:26 -!- algorist [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:42 algorist [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 02:54:44 sshirokov: some people use a def macro that allow them to define anything: (def variable ...) (def function ...) (def method ...). 02:55:06 *sshirokov* is not one of those people 02:55:24 That was copy->paste->edit, so I'm pretty surprised that happened :O 02:57:10 frx: in the last resort, you could (defun f (&rest arguments) and parse the arguments yourself. eg. you could write; (let ((point (when (pointp (first arguments)) (pop arguments)))) (destructuring-bind (&key ...) arguments ...)) 02:57:24 But this is not a good idea. 02:57:34 yeah but don't think it's worth it. 02:57:44 Indeed. 02:59:50 armence_ [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 03:04:38 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:53 Hello all. I've been reading http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book and I am having mixed feelings about it. Is there an alternative beginner's lisp online book that someone here would recommed? I have extensive non-functional programming experience... 03:05:06 -!- em_ [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 03:06:31 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:06:55 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:16 armence_: normally I'd suggest PCL for experienced programmers, but there's also Land of Lisp (can't get it free, though), Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation (it's an introduction, though, so it does't cover some latter additions, but explains symbolic programming well), Succesfull Lisp, and possibly few more 03:08:06 armence_: If you want something short (100 pages): http://www.franz.com/resources/educational_resources/cooper.book.pdf 03:08:38 how about Successful Lisp? 03:08:51 armence_: but if you want to appreciate all the nice things in Lisp, you should read PAIP. 03:08:56 minion: PAIP 03:08:56 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 03:09:27 Thanks. 03:09:41 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 03:09:44 armence_: what is it that you don't like about PCL? 03:11:46 rolando, I don't have specific complaints to present. I just don't feel like I am comfortably learning the language at a decent pace. But perhaps I just need to tough it out. The last language I learned was Python and by comparison this learning process is feeling quite painful. 03:12:07 how did you learn python? 03:12:21 following the python.org tutorial? dive into python? 03:12:54 python.org tutorial 03:13:15 armence_: are you programming enough in lisp? 03:13:35 pjb, I'm just starting... 03:13:40 armence_: you should be using the REPL 50% and reading 50% of the time. 03:14:20 The advantage of PCL is tha it's practical: it gives realistic examples of modern lisp programs. 03:14:56 So if you're programming along, it's rather a hands on approach. 03:15:11 OK, I'll try to tough it out with PCL for now, maybe it's just that lisp is really unfamiliar, but I'll move to another resource you guys gave me. 03:15:21 The problem with PCL is that it's a book: gigamonkey might have written it with a book mindset instead of a online tutorial mindset 03:15:41 armence_: another hands on approach would be: http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~shapiro/Commonlisp/ 03:16:23 Thanks for the recommendations everyone. 03:23:25 puddingpimp [jjankrh@118-92-22-141.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:24:17 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:25:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gfrrtqtfzzxtkoty] has joined #lisp 03:26:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:30:56 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:30:57 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:09 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.180] has joined #lisp 03:31:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.180] has quit [Changing host] 03:31:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:32:34 -!- emma is now known as em 03:33:03 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:33:25 huangho [~vitor@189-30-1-179.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:34:29 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:36:23 is it possible to get the package I'm currently in programatically? 03:36:47 frx: *package* 03:37:42 thanks 03:39:10 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:59 btw I'm writing a macro that automatically exports a function. do you all usually manually type exported functions in defpackage :export? 03:41:13 (defun-export ... ) 03:41:34 frx: don't do that. 03:41:49 why not? 03:41:57 Note that you can't export functions -- just symbols. 03:42:15 frx: one is what Zhivago said: you're exporting a whole symbol, not just a function definition. 03:42:31 another is that reloading your file containing defpackage will do the wrong thing, wiping out your exports 03:42:46 another is that it's generally bad to have states where your package doesn't have all its exports yet 03:42:49 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:43:22 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has joined #lisp 03:43:27 also, it's good documentation to have a formal statement of everything that your package exports in one place 03:45:48 Think of it as a specification of external interface. 03:48:41 ok I'm convinced. one more thing. when wrapping some C api what would you return if a function returns C struct? A lisp struct, keyworded list? was thinking of writing a thin wrapper around C functions first, then make nice CLOS objects on top of it 03:48:52 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 03:49:43 that depends on what the struct is and what it's going to be used for... 03:50:18 for example, if it were a struct used for the sake of returning several bits of info, it might make sense to return multiple values from your wrapper 03:50:59 ok as an example point struct, having x and y members. it represents current cursor position, current window position etc 03:52:35 well, I wouldn't use multiple values for a point, because there's lots of things to do with a point as a point: eg add/subtract, distance, print as "(x,y)", etc. 03:52:45 frx: I'd return whatever would be apropriate data structure in Lisp for the functionality 03:52:52 probably best as a struct 03:56:49 psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has joined #lisp 03:56:50 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has left #lisp 03:58:25 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 03:58:34 I'd use multiple-values for that case. 03:59:30 a complex isn't a bad idea either for a 2d point. 03:59:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-104-146.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:00:37 The thing about multiple-values is that they avoid consing. 04:01:05 So your wrapper users can decide how they want to store that data afterward (or even if they want to store it). 04:03:07 I wanted to have C struct <=> my data type auto conversion though, so that I can define C functions as accepting that type later on, like you can define a C function accepting string as if it accepted :string 04:03:50 is that possible with custom types? or cffi doing some magic with :string => char * conversion 04:05:15 frx: I think CFFI had a way to define type converters 04:05:39 (which could be of course still done with wrapper code 04:05:40 ) 04:05:57 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:55 armence_: still here? 04:07:06 gigamonkey, Yes. 04:07:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:07:36 Saw your earlier comments. Is the pace of PCL too slow or too fast? 04:08:54 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:53 gigamonkey, Hm... I feels like chapter 2 is too fast. But after that a bit too slow. 04:10:24 Sorry I meant chapter 3 being too fast 04:11:01 Well, chapter 3 is supposed to be a quick tour. 04:11:55 But if the other chapters are too slow, I don't know what to say except read faster. ;-) 04:12:35 The trick, I suppose, is that it's easy for folks with experience in other languages to draw incorrect analogies to their prior experience and end up confusing themselves. 04:12:46 gigamonkey, No problem. I don't think this is an issue with the book. I think it's at worst a slight mismatch between my preference and the book... 04:12:48 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-4.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:16 Fair enough. Hope you find something that works for you. 04:14:15 Oh, and there is that. I spend too much time thinking: I wonder how you do this python trick in LISP or I wish the syntax here was the same as in C... LISP is just really different... 04:15:54 gigamonkey, Anyways, thanks for providing the book. It's far better than a lot of stuff I've read. 04:16:11 Yes, you pretty much need to abandon the idea of doing things the way you'd do them in an Algol-derived language like C or Python - this is an entirely separate family of languages here. 04:17:27 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-4.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:21:37 -!- rolando [~user@87.116.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:23:08 antgreen [~user@67.211.5.11] has joined #lisp 04:23:39 jfleming: armence_: actually I don't think you have to treat CL as totally different from Algol-derived languages. 04:23:50 It's a multiparadigm language. 04:24:17 armence_: you should read about reader macros. Chapter 2 and Chapter 23 of CLHS. 04:24:22 But it has several features and ways of doing things that *are* quite different and need to be nuderstood in their own terms. 04:24:29 armence_: so that you can implement C syntax to write your lisp program.s 04:24:46 And hasten the day when you realize that's a silly idea. 04:25:26 And don't worry, McCarthy himself had the same urge with his m-expressions. 04:28:05 Fortress is probably the most interesting in terms of syntactic development at the moment. 04:28:06 It is indeed multiparadigm, and I commonly combine OO, functional and procedural code, but I think it's worth emphasising that trying to re-implement an Algol-style solution in CL is a bit like putting on roller-skates and wondering how you run in these things. 04:28:35 While it might be multi-paradigm, it is a procedural language. 04:28:51 It just has decent support facilities for a functional and generic programming style. 04:29:29 jfleming: yes. I am a strong believer that every language should be approached on its own terms and certainly CL is more different than X than Y is for most values of X and Y. 04:30:23 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-13.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:44 But there's also a lot of CL that's really not that different from what folks are used to; it's just dressed up a bit differently. 04:34:34 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:06 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:37:07 would it be possible to write genericbind macro that can treat any sequence (list vector string) as (values ..)? (genericbind (x y) (list 1 2) ... ) ideally it should be able to bind values too 04:38:29 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-178.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:44 Hunden [~Hunden@e180104099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:38 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:41:40 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-13.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:42:16 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 04:56:03 -!- huangho [~vitor@189-30-1-179.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:56:44 (defmacro bind (vars sequence &body body) `(multiple-value-bind ,vars (apply #'values (coerce ,sequence 'list)) ,@body)) 04:57:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:57:48 (bind (a b) #(1 2 3 4) (list a b)) => (1 2) 04:58:10 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-34-25.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:59:24 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-34-25.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:59:39 great thanks. does it work with any sequence? 05:00:14 yes 05:00:32 (bind (a b) "asdf" (list a b)) => (#\a #\s) 05:01:13 -!- elliottcable [~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: rage] 05:01:40 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.112.122] has joined #lisp 05:02:29 elliottcable [~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:41 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-34-25.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:49 by checking if (length (multiple-values-list seq)) is > 0 first it could work with values too. 05:03:25 > 1 even 05:04:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:08:16 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 05:08:40 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 05:08:41 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-34-25.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:09:26 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-29-54.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:11:54 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: good night.] 05:12:55 gigamonkey, Thanks. Yes, I don't think I'll be trying to re-implement C syntax in lisp. I already have C which works very well with C syntax. If I might make a specific comment on the book: Chapter 1 got me a little confused as to lisp vs slime vs emacs. I'm a vi user and I didn't think learning emacs and lisp simultaneously would be a good idea, so I would have appreciated some clarification as to what is the bare minimum. I figure it out, but it t 05:12:56 ook a bit of time. 05:14:31 And by chapter 1 I mean chapter 2. Sorry 05:15:33 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:16:24 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:20:29 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:22:52 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:27:50 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mdwlofszlyedstyk] has joined #lisp 05:29:00 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:29:44 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:49 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 05:33:23 -!- sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:34:36 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36:17 -!- elliottcable is now known as Guest82573 05:37:26 -!- Guest82573 is now known as elliottcable 05:39:32 sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has joined #lisp 05:39:35 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 05:47:41 -!- sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:47:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 05:48:34 is there a (defclass-shortcut classname x y) that translates to (defclass classname () ((:accessor x :initarg x :initform 0)) ((:accessor y :initarg y :initform 0)))) 05:48:44 or should I roll my own 05:50:18 sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has joined #lisp 05:52:11 -!- armence_ [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:52:51 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-178.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:53:24 frx: you could find such macros, but you'd be better rolling your own. 05:54:24 see define-class-structure in http://paste.lisp.org/display/122320 05:54:40 or defclass* in the same. 05:55:52 thanks, wow that's huge. I did mine in few lines, but it probably can't do half the things that one can 05:56:10 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180104099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:56:13 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:56:14 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:09 That's why I told you to roll your own. 05:57:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:22 So that it can do what you want and be simplier. 05:59:05 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:05:27 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:05:56 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-224.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:56 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:45 I can't get it working though. anyone mind taking a look? 06:11:13 frx pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123258 06:14:03 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 06:16:17 -!- sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:16:29 frx: (macroexpand-1 '(define-class rect x y width height)) 06:17:03 (make-instance 'rect 'x 10 'y 20) works perfectly well. 06:17:30 yes, I forgot to add code that is accessing a slot. then I get that error 06:17:36 tr (name person) 06:17:40 try 06:18:32 (x (make-instance 'rect 'x 10 'y 20)) works perfectly well too. 06:18:32 oh I see it now 06:18:40 I'm missing : 06:19:12 sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has joined #lisp 06:19:17 correct? 06:19:25 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:19:46 in default-slot-form after :initarg 06:21:22 "missing :" doesn't mean anything. 06:21:30 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:21:30 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:21:30 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:21:30 You can use any symbol as :initarg. 06:21:56 ok, but isn't the usual syntax :arg instead of 'arg 06:22:08 It's not a question of syntax. 06:22:21 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:22:58 (define-symbol-macro x 'x) and then you can use exactly the same form: (make-instance 'rect x 10) 06:25:09 Well, ok, if you really want exactly the same: (defconstant x 'x) (make-instance 'rect x 10) 06:25:59 (when you intern a symbol in the KEYWORD package, it gets defined as such a constant automatically (and also exported automatically). (defconstant keyword:x 'keyword:x) 06:26:43 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 06:26:44 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 06:30:20 what if I want (make-instance 'rect :x 10) instead? I'm used to using keywords there. :,slot in default slot form does not expand to :x, but |:| x 06:31:00 Yes, : alone is the symbol with an empty name, in the KEYWORD package. 06:31:07 What is :x ? 06:31:11 what is x ? 06:31:26 :x is a keyword x a smbol 06:31:37 Try: (type-of ':x) 06:31:58 and try: (typep ':x 'symbol) 06:32:14 T 06:32:44 Yes. Why? 06:32:57 keyword is symbol starting with : I guess 06:33:01 No. 06:33:36 (list (symbol-package ':x) (symbol-name ':x) (symbol-package 'keyword:x) (symbol-name 'keyword:x)) 06:33:44 and (eq ':x 'keyword:x) 06:35:43 So? 06:36:43 keyword is a symbol in keyword package 06:36:54 Right. 06:37:11 The : is the normal : used to qualify symbols with package name: package:symbol 06:37:52 Only when the package is KEYWORD, it can be omited. :x and keyword:x read identically, as the symbol named "X" in the package named "KEYWORD". 06:38:37 When a symbol k is interned in the package keyword, two special things occur: 1- (defconstant k k) 2- (export k "KEYWORD"). 06:39:33 Argh, this defconstant form is wrong... Something like (eval `(defconstant ,k ',k)) , but it's done internally so it probably doesn't use eval and defconstant. 06:39:54 Anyways, the question now is what is the difference between X and :X ? 06:40:01 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 06:40:06 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:225:64ff:fe97:d8d2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40:13 Try: (list (symbol-package ':x) (symbol-name ':x) (symbol-package 'x) (symbol-name 'x)) 06:40:14 x is symbol in current package, :x in keyword package 06:40:20 correct. 06:40:36 Otherwise, they have the same symbol name: (string= 'x ':x) 06:41:01 or more precisely: (string= (symbol-name 'x) (symbol-name ':x)) ; but that's what string= does automatically. 06:41:16 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 06:41:31 So finally, how can you get :X if you have X ? 06:42:00 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:42:11 (export 'x "KEYWORD") ? 06:42:43 No. This cannot work. 06:43:15 (symbol-package 'x) ? 06:43:38 common-lisp-user 06:44:04 So if X is not interned in KEYWORD but in COMMON-LISP-USER, how can you export it from KEYWORD? It's not possible. 06:44:24 You didn't say what you get for (eq ':x 'x) ? 06:44:37 nil 06:44:49 That prooves that :x and x are not the same symbol. 06:45:27 The fact that x is symbol in current package, :x in keyword package is a hint (but you could have imported :x into the current package so that (eq 'x ':x) --> T is possible). 06:46:06 So since X and :X are not the same symbol, since they have the same symbol-name, and they don't have the same symbol-package, how can you get :X when you start from X ? 06:46:33 I don't know. if you can I'm not sure how 06:47:03 We said that :x was a symbol named "X" that was interned in the package named "KEYWORD" right? 06:47:15 yes 06:47:25 Translated into lisp: (intern "X" "KEYWORD") --> :X 06:47:28 -!- sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:47:53 And we said that (symbol-name 'x) --> "X", so (intern (symbol-name 'x) "KEYWORD") --> :X 06:48:19 Therefore (intern (symbol-name field) "KEYWORD") --> the keyword with the same name as the field. 06:48:38 thanks, learned more than I ever thought I could about keywords I just thought of them as symbols starting with : 06:52:19 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:52:51 Apart from the fact that they're constants, so you cannot change their value or bind them (like T and NIL), they're normal symbols. 06:53:09 You can defun or defmacro them, you can set their properties. 06:53:20 (of course, since they're a global ressource, it's not advisable doing so). 06:56:34 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:06 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:03:27 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:30 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:25 setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 07:07:49 trigen 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(car (gethash "Artist" cursong-htable))) 07:58:16 That's ok? 08:00:04 looks ok 08:00:22 what are you worried about? 08:00:23 otwieracz: depends on what's in your hash-table. what should (gethash "Artist" oldsong-htable) contain and what does (gethash "Artist" cursong-htable) contain? 08:01:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:28 well, the only problem would be if the cursong-table contained value that is not a list which would make CAR fail 08:02:26 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:31 oldsong-htable is empty. 08:02:55 it does not matter 08:02:55 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-vrvxivtdfrhwlclh] has joined #lisp 08:03:20 because you are putting values in it 08:03:39 Yes 08:03:53 But later (car (gethash "Artist" oldsong-htable)) returns nil. 08:04:10 (car (gethash "Artist" cursong-htable)) is ok. 08:04:59 but you are putting the car of cursong-table in the oldsong-table; you sure you want to call CAR on the value you have put into oldsong-table? 08:05:05 jdz: it does matter what's supposed to be in there. why put something in the hash-table if you don't intend to use it later on? :) it's at least slightly odd that two hashes with similar names would contain different structures. not necessarily bad, but enough to pose a question. 08:06:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:57 sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has joined #lisp 08:07:38 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:27 otwieracz: what structure is returned when you call (gethash "Artist" cursong-htable) and what should be returned when you call (gethash "Artist" oldsong-htable) later on? what are you trying to accomplish exactly? 08:09:54 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:41 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-32-175.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:12:35 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:13:43 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 08:17:10 hi 08:17:34 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:28:13 otwieracz: by default hash-tables are :test 'eql. 08:28:37 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 08:28:45 In that case, in (setf (gethash "Artist" oldsong-htable) (car (gethash "Artist" cursong-htable))) the subforms (gethash "Artist" oldsong-htable) may or may not refer to the same slot. 08:29:10 (depending on whether you compiled that code or not, and whether the compiler collapsed the constants or not). 08:29:21 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 otwieracz: for all this to work, you must (make-hash-table :test 'equal) or equalp. 08:30:29 You might want to consider using symbols for keys. 08:35:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:18 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:45 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:40:16 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:43:09 -!- frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 08:43:58 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-195-171.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:47:18 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 08:48:13 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-6-133.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:49:41 -!- csdwifi [~carl@76.177.215.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:53:51 pjb: 08:54:07 (let ((cursong-htable (make-hash-table :test #'equal)) 08:54:08 (oldsong-htable (make-hash-table :test #'equal)) 08:54:49 That naming looks very awkward. 08:55:01 Why not just call them current-songs and old-songs? 08:55:37 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:56:20 That's not problem. :) 09:06:26 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06a1c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:28 Hello! 09:07:44 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has joined #lisp 09:10:46 Eataix [~Eataix@113.83.79.138] has joined #lisp 09:11:14 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 09:11:16 hello serichsen 09:14:06 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 09:14:10 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@113.83.79.138] has quit [Client Quit] 09:19:30 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:41 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:19:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:23:47 -!- reb 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[Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:03 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:49:26 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:49:46 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51:21 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.221.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:04:31 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.249.6] has joined #lisp 11:06:27 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:59 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:10:18 Hey there, I was wondering whether there was an easy way of determining whether a specific symbol repeats, say, three times in a row within a list 11:10:41 e.g. I in '(M U I I I) 11:11:14 count 11:11:20 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:23 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:27 Iceland_jack: just loop through the list and count - the iterate macro has a nice previous clause 11:11:34 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:11:48 right, so there isn't a specific function for this 11:12:10 Iceland_jack: I just told you the name of the function 11:12:14 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:12:15 fe[nl]ix: (just so we're clear, I'm not looking for the number of a symbol within a list) 11:12:50 '(M U I U I I) should not match for example 11:12:51 hmm 11:13:16 they need to be consecutive 11:13:34 sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has joined #lisp 11:14:15 i'd use loop for it 11:14:17 if there isn't a specialised function for this I guess I'm left with looping interating through the list :) 11:14:19 Wouldn't search do that? 11:14:30 you can use cl:search 11:15:09 (search '(i i i) '(i u m i i i)) 11:15:14 (search (make-list 3 :initial-element 'i) '(m u i i i)) 11:15:19 right you are 11:15:43 sounds obvious in retrospect 11:15:47 thank you 11:15:58 Iceland_jack: you're only interested in 3? 11:16:12 well, for this specific problem; yes 11:16:30 why do you ask? 11:17:02 because i misinterpreted it and came up with an ugly solution for your specific problem 11:17:14 oh, let's hear it 11:18:32 no, it doesn't even solve your problem, for some dull misinterpretation i thought you wanted to know the length the longest consecutive series of 'i in that list. so it's plain wrong 11:18:49 ah, no harm done 11:18:50 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:18:51 luckily there are people in #lisp that can read :) 11:18:55 haha 11:19:23 using `search' is a very elegant solution 11:20:29 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:20:33 agreed 11:22:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:23:00 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:23:16 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:13 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:05 ok, a bit of a follow up question: how would I go about replacing each (or a single) substring '(i i i) with a 'u? 11:28:52 I tried `replace' but can't seem to get it to work for anything but symbols 11:30:42 Iceland_jack: you'll need to specify the comparision method - eq only works for symbols. 11:30:44 doing hofstadter's mui puzzle? 11:30:52 mal__: damn you 11:31:06 yes I am 11:31:15 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:31:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:31:25 replace will not change the lenght of a sequence 11:32:09 hm, so you can't use replace to turn '(h i i i) into '(h u) 11:32:17 nope 11:33:41 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:34:00 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:34:02 -!- madnificent [~user@campus-extern-net-nat.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:09 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:24 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:36:17 Is there any idiomatic way of doing this? I feel like there's a Lispier way than specifying :test 11:37:02 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:37:06 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06a1c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:37:15 Iceland_jack: what's unlispy about specifying :test? 11:37:32 it's there for a reason 11:38:08 I didn't mean that specifying :test was unlispy per se, just like there wouldn't have been anything unlispy about interating through a list to match (i i i) 11:39:34 but lisp deals so heavily with lists so I assumed there would be some... primitive-ier way of (magic '(i i i) 'u '(m u i i i))  (m u u) 11:39:44 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:41:51 Iceland_jack: you could use (position), (subseq) and (append) 11:42:16 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:16 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:42:17 I tried a solution that used the positional output of `find' 11:42:38 I just wanted to know whether there was a better way 11:43:04 no I'm sorry, search 11:43:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:43:54 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:44 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:06 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:29 do you want to write a clean, functional program, or are you fine with changing you list in-place? 11:47:10 for in-place just change the CDR of the element before '(i i i) to a (CONS 'u (CDR of last i)) ... 11:47:32 I'd prefer it to be functional but.. hurm 11:48:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gfrrtqtfzzxtkoty] has left #lisp 11:51:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:51:19 I'm not going to lie, I did not expect this sort of rudimentary list operations to be such a hassle in (Common) Lisp of all things 11:51:29 but flip214's solution works 11:51:34 thank you :) 11:51:38 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-xiffdkgevgsqvzid] has joined #lisp 11:52:00 Iceland_jack: which one? (setf (cdr)) or (append (subseq)...)? 11:52:04 both should work 11:52:40 I'll probably use something like the former 11:53:22 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:22 Hunden [~Hunden@e180104099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:53:33 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:51 -!- sanchaz [~whocares@unaffiliated/sanchaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:54:41 kushal [~kdas@114.143.166.52] has joined #lisp 11:54:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.166.52] has quit [Changing host] 11:54:41 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:56:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.249.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:58 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180104099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:55 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 11:59:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.226.23] has joined #lisp 12:00:19 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 12:01:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:02:32 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:54 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:03:06 Hunden [~Hunden@e180104099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:05:59 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:08:35 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77d5b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:44 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:43 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 12:16:34 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:16:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:20 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:25 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 12:17:28 hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:07 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 12:20:14 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.156.106] has joined #lisp 12:21:48 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 12:23:54 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:34:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.112.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38:28 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:39:19 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:50 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:40:39 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:43:40 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:18 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:46:25 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:49:39 -!- antgreen [~user@67.211.5.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:18 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.228] has joined #lisp 12:50:57 madnificent [~user@campus-extern-net-nat.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #lisp 12:54:12 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:01:42 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.75] has joined #lisp 13:05:33 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:06 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 rpr [~rpr@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 13:12:46 hello 13:14:58 how to create cffi:defcfun for a function similar to stdlib's strtol? it accepts a pointer to a pointer, in order to modify the address of the passed pointer 13:15:20 (or rather of the pointer passed pointer points to) 13:16:33 hello 13:16:51 hi 13:16:59 <_3b> (defcfun foo return-type (arg (:pointer :pointer)))? 13:18:29 <_3b> or (:pointer (:pointer type)) or just :pointer 13:18:42 well yes just a pointer should wor 13:18:43 k 13:19:21 but when calling that function how do I create a pointer and then pass a pointer to it to C function 13:21:17 <_3b> with-foreign-object (foo :pointer) or however the syntax of that is 13:21:36 yeah, but we need to pass a pointer to foo, not just foo 13:21:49 so that function can modify it 13:22:25 <_3b> no, foo is the pointer to the pointer 13:23:23 <_3b> (i think, i always get confused with cffi pointer stuff) 13:24:36 if it's a pointer to pointer then it needs to allocate memory for one pointer, as function will modify it 13:24:57 <_3b> right, thats what with-foreign-object does 13:25:15 ok let me try 13:25:40 <_3b> w-f-o binds a pointer to space for 1 (or more) object of the specified type 13:27:02 <_3b> in this case foo is something like void* foo[1]; if i remember my C correctly 13:27:38 that's what I need 13:28:50 -!- zanea_ [~zanea@210-86-94-154.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:00 armence_ [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 13:30:07 it didn't crash that's a good sign 13:30:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:15 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:33:01 (with-foreign-object (end :pointer) (strtol "123" end 10) <- I am not sure how to inspect end pointers value. I need to dereference it before calling foreign-string-to-lisp 13:33:06 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:33:47 <_3b> (mem-aref end :pointer) ? 13:34:26 <_3b> or maybe it was mem-ref 13:34:43 neither worked 13:34:51 (with-foreign-object (end :pointer) (strtol "123asdf" end 10) (foreign-string-to-lisp (mem-aref end :pointer))) 13:34:58 it should print "asdf", I'm getting "" 13:38:26 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 13:38:30 rpr pasted "code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123265 13:38:43 that's what i have 13:38:53 <_3b> hmm, not sure if that is valid, i think the c string passed to strtol there doesn't exist anymore after it exits 13:39:03 rpr: Are you actually trying to get strtol or is this just an exercise to learn how to do something more general? 13:39:53 Xach I'm trying to get unrelated function with similar declaration 13:40:40 same issue, have to pass a pointer to pointer to char 13:40:59 <_3b> yeah, works if you use with-foreign-string rather than letting it translate automatically 13:42:15 can you post full line? I'm getting error just changing with-foreign-pointer to with-foreign-string 13:42:23 _3b annotated #123265 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123265#1 13:42:39 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:44:27 ah you did foreign-string for first argument 13:45:04 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:15 great thanks a lot, been at this for an hour at least 13:45:17 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:04 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48:18 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8D04E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:23 hi guys 13:49:33 I just noticed that SBCL's sb-posix:rmdir ignores *default-pathname-defaults*, e.g. only absolute paths work. is that a bug or a feature? 13:50:37 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:50:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:51:37 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:55 jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:52:37 urandom__ [~user@p548A4D15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:08 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 13:59:55 ASau``` [~user@95-24-140-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:02:03 -!- ASau`` [~user@95-27-211-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:02:35 <_3b> el-maxo: i'd expect sb-posix stuff to use posix cwd rather than *d-p-d* 14:05:48 well the problem is that its used by cl-fad:delete-directory-and-files which i'd expect to use *d-p-d* 14:06:08 who came up that symbol name anyway? im proud of that guy 14:06:10 :D 14:06:26 peter seibel 14:06:34 well, i think allegro might use that name natively. 14:06:39 I mean *default-pathname-defaults* 14:07:09 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:07:15 *Xach* wrote WITH-POSIX-CWD for commando to keep things predictably in sync. 14:07:40 though that was more for run-program programs thans sb-posix functions. 14:08:07 <_3b> yeah, cl-fad stuff not using *d-p-d* is a bit more unexpected 14:08:34 cl-fad should probably just use sb-ext:delete-directory 14:08:52 sb-ext:delete-directory is pretty new. 14:08:57 the point of cl-fad is to be portable.. 14:09:07 Fade: but it uses unportable stuff underneath. 14:09:31 hum 14:09:42 has to 14:11:03 ('morning) 14:11:21 will drop edi a mail about sb-ext:delete-directory 14:12:35 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-aoulynqfptdlmunc] has joined #lisp 14:13:24 is there any inside-triangle-p function? (to know if a point is inside a triangle) 14:14:17 Posterdati: the standard does not even have triangles and points. 14:15:34 serichsen: of course, I mean geometry libraries if there's any 14:17:25 Posterdati: X is inside ABC if the scalar products of the sides with the lines connecting X with the corners are all the same sign. 14:18:43 serichsen: or the oriented distances from p to edges have same signs 14:18:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:29 polygon should apply the same 14:19:53 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has joined #lisp 14:21:01 gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:20 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:22:12 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-179-47.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:36 i managed to defcfun this horrible MS monstrousity. :) http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms679351%28v=vs.85%29.aspx 14:25:05 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-FDAAE900.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: gz_] 14:25:05 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:41 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:26:57 gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:12 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:22 rpr pasted "if someone's curious" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123266 14:30:46 rhhhoobarrrb [46a74fea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.79.234] has joined #lisp 14:31:29 Posterdati: not generally, if the polygon is not convex. 14:43:29 daniel [~daniel@p5082BFCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:50 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326ABD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:48:25 rpr: nice (: 14:50:42 serichsen: oriented distance is like dot product 14:55:31 rpr annotated #123266 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123266#1 14:55:49 can someone compare last lines in first and second paste 14:55:55 I think I had a bug in first example 14:56:07 thought I did not get segfault 14:56:51 I think (LocalFree (mem-ref buf :pointer)))) is correct? 14:57:06 it's freeing the pointer C function allocated 14:57:51 Posterdati: yes, but both can give false negatives if the polygon is not convex. 14:58:13 serichsen: yes, but I'm talking about the triangle case 14:58:41 Posterdati: OK. 14:58:49 serichsen: for polygons maybe one have to do a triangularization 14:59:04 serichsen: and find the triangle where the point is :) 14:59:38 serichsen: should work for convex shapes 14:59:58 <_3b> rpr: yeah, second looks more likely 15:00:27 Posterdati: I think that it is sufficient to dissect a general polygon into convex polygons. 15:00:39 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 15:00:46 serichsen: ok 15:01:28 object prevalence 15:01:29 www.prevayler.org 15:01:33 Posterdati: or it is sufficient to count the number of times a ray from your point crosses the polygon edges 15:01:35 i want to do it without objects 15:01:38 lol 15:01:38 possible? 15:02:08 rhhhoobarrrb: no. 15:02:34 jdz: ok 15:02:38 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@175.40.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:03:01 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-134-125.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:22 Posterdati: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_in_polygon 15:03:34 Posterdati: or am i missing something as usual? 15:04:55 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:22 :( 15:06:51 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 rhhhoobarrrb: Is this for the Baldur's Gate project? 15:08:24 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:24 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:14 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:19 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:24 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 15:10:11 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-173-77-24-106.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.226.23] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:12:04 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.226.23] has joined #lisp 15:12:09 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mdwlofszlyedstyk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:25 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 15:15:40 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-80-39.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:17:51 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:24 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:24 gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:22:37 rheuuuubarb [46a74fea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.79.234] has joined #lisp 15:22:41 ssh xach 15:22:46 your scare the coders 15:23:26 -!- rhhhoobarrrb [46a74fea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.79.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:45 Xach: My name... 15:24:06 does iceland have people? 15:24:17 or have the yeti retaken their ancestral home? 15:24:35 It is inhabited, inhabited by people called Baldur 15:24:58 zing 15:25:00 your good 15:25:05 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 15:25:09 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.112] has joined #lisp 15:25:15 Yetis are known for their wit 15:25:27 humans need a lilttle competition 15:25:31 they have gotn soft 15:25:48 rheuuuubarb: go away. 15:25:51 the dwarves n kobolds should resurface 15:25:59 Xach: cmon be fun 15:28:55 Be fun somewhere else. 15:28:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:03 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:30:16 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has joined #lisp 15:32:10 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.68.244] has joined #lisp 15:32:45 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:35:44 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:26 hello 15:38:07 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:38:32 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 15:38:52 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:35 carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.28] has joined #lisp 15:40:44 xach I have a few lisp questions 15:40:52 not trolling but they are rather basic 15:40:55 may I ask? 15:41:12 rheuuuubarb: don't ask to ask. 15:41:14 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:43:12 I run archlinux, and have started to use tcl, for filesystem and admin, yet want to use lisp as often as I can for practice, are the file systemish things by pter seibel in some library the best replacement for tcl or bash for operating sysem kinda maneuvers and file maniulation? is there a lisp version fo find or rsync? or cron? 15:43:17 cron not that important 15:43:25 to replace 15:44:09 dstat would be an other awesome one to emualte or replace 15:44:11 In case it's not clear, rheuuuubarb is gavin "gavino" schuette. 15:44:35 regardless of who rheuuuubarb is, his questions do kind-of make sense 15:44:36 ahhh. not asked, but answered anyhow. 15:44:47 -!- rheuuuubarb is now known as gavinschuette 15:44:55 the same 15:45:18 madnificent: Yes, that's the pattern: semi-sensible questions and earnest attempts to help that go nowhere. 15:45:45 if only my questions were taken at face value 15:45:55 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 i don't use lisp (much) for system administration. in practice i've always found it to be too complex to manage things in lisp. mostly because all the little tools which are trivially callable from bash take just a little mit more content to call in lisp. add to that that the deployment isn't as trivial and i just stick to bash/ruby for scripting. 15:46:21 If only you could understand the answers and build on them to formulate new ideas and questions. 15:46:48 madnificent: this is kinda what I had concluded I was wondering fi that was the consensus 15:46:51 Xach: to be fair, i'd like to know where this argument would lead to. i'm keen to see how others use lisp for system administration. given some shared code, it could be really nice 15:47:04 madnificent: Good luck with it. 15:47:05 gavinschuette: it's lisp, there is no consensus ;-) 15:47:09 dstat is python is worth its weight in gold 15:47:13 in- 15:47:15 ah ok 15:47:25 Xach: hint, i'm curious how you use it as well 15:47:34 gavinschuette: if scheme is ok then I think scsh would be good ? 15:47:36 if, and how 15:48:09 you know I tried scsh a little but didnt5 dig in, I saw it has some effort to do regexes nicely, and be massively posix ish 15:48:13 madnificent: I find system administration and integration stuff is usually just quicker in python. 15:48:32 sunet loosk sick 15:48:36 Fade: same here, but with ruby. virtually the same reasons, i guess 15:48:55 -!- gkeith [~gkeith@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:48:58 see I want to use lisp to get hang of it more yet same happen to me, little jobs are easy in tcl 15:49:16 tcl wouldn't be my first choice for system administrivia. 15:49:26 i find it so blindingly easy 15:49:39 then stick with what you know/like. next question! 15:49:46 why is python nicer in your exp? 15:49:47 Fade: though in many occasions i have the feeling that lisp could be a nicer environment, given some good integration 15:50:02 madnificent: well, there's no reason why it couldn't be. 15:50:22 sb-posix + cl-fad + osicat get you a long way. 15:51:01 Fade: and a way to make deployment simpler 15:51:04 if I'm doing something like log processing on our huge qmail transports, I tend to use lisp. 15:51:09 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:12 just because it's so much faster than cpython. 15:51:19 the logs get trully enormous. 15:51:56 one dream app would be like webmin in lisp that didnt suck 15:52:03 deployment isn't a big deal with sbcl's --script feature. 15:52:11 and there's the shebang hack from long ago. 15:52:21 and now, buildapp. 15:52:28 Fade: but then you miss the arguments given to the script, no? (i'm likely wrong) 15:52:39 i did use buildapp, i think 15:53:03 that was relatively nice, but you still have to execute a set of commands. (i should probably integrate build-app in an emacs-command and be done with it) 15:53:27 the args sb-ext:*posix-argv* 15:53:32 with lisp pacakges, what happens a year later? with perl for example you run cpanp, and let it update all the modules to most recent, does quicklisp handle updates after long time liek that with dependency checking? 15:53:53 gavinschuette: lisp is a terrible choice. 15:53:59 gavinschuette: they keep working, or they are in quicklisp :) 15:54:04 Fade: cruel 15:54:06 you should use perl or tcl or brainfuck 15:54:27 Fade: your words are boring 15:54:35 *Fade* chuckles 15:54:51 remember sarcasm is the dumbest form of humor 15:55:03 Fade: befunge would be a better choice 15:55:15 here I thought that was trolling topic focused fora and irc channels. :) 15:55:44 england lost 2 wars to germany, usa saved them 15:55:54 gavinschuette: wth? 15:55:55 anyhow, your questions are trivially answerable with a little google-izing. 15:56:14 so, have at it. 15:56:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:38 if you happen to write a system administration focused library for CL, i'd be happy to hear about it, though. 15:56:47 incf Fade 15:57:13 gavinschuette: you're history is not so good, Germany was more or less done by the time US entered in WW1, maybe sped up the fact a little, and it was the USSR that beat them in WW2 15:57:34 your* 15:57:49 okay, this isn't even duck-trolling anymore. 15:58:26 anyway I'm signing off, last day in my current job, and it's 3 mins to home time, yipee 15:58:37 take it easy, Guthur. 15:58:46 Guthur: you have another one? 15:59:08 madnificent: yep thank God, tried long term unemployment, not nice 15:59:21 in that case: enjoy Guthur !! :D 15:59:27 i'll be starting my new job on 8th Aug 15:59:37 I'm going to be a C++ hack 15:59:44 oh please shot me now 15:59:49 shoot* 16:00:19 hehe, probably wont be that bad, and C++ hacks tend to get paid more, I hope 16:00:29 LoL 16:00:44 Guthur: time for a Lisp -> C++ translator 16:00:50 -!- gavinschuette [46a74fea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.79.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:00:51 *Guthur* still hoping for the Lisp job some day 16:00:59 where do you live? 16:01:05 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:01:12 UK (Northern Ireland) 16:01:15 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:01:23 anyway, 17:01 16:01:27 enjoy! 16:01:31 i'm 1 minute late for getting out of here 16:01:43 catch you later all 16:01:47 -!- Guthur [c0c1f50f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:03:43 wow, http://blog.crazyrobot.net/?p=420 is pretty brilliant! 16:04:25 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wmvilfiewtiyeevq] has joined #lisp 16:04:46 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:52 gavinschuette [46a74fea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.79.234] has joined #lisp 16:04:56 hmm 16:05:36 antifuchs: yay, now we can run GBA games on our HDTV. looks very good though 16:06:01 antifuchs: definitely. 16:06:14 indeed (: 16:07:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:44 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:08:21 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 16:09:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wmvilfiewtiyeevq] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:05 add^_ [~add^_^@h125n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-crnxdsrdjxacfjwx] has joined #lisp 16:10:25 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:34 gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 vecto is showing up in unexpected places. :) 16:11:54 SBCL 1.0.50 is released since a couple of days, at least for GNU/Linux.. 16:13:01 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:57 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:51 bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:56 -!- bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:39 -!- antifuchs changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.50, anaphora 0.9.4, SBCL officially in Git, slime-indentation changes in CVS, usocket 0.5.2, common-lisp.net is up again, ABCL 0.25 16:15:45 add^_: well spotted (: 16:15:58 bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:07 :-) 16:26:13 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:32 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816C12.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:46 i use vi to dev in da lisp 16:26:54 i rule 16:29:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:29 how's this rule working out for you? 16:31:16 -!- gavinschuette [46a74fea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.79.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:58 ... 16:34:09 wow sbcl news isn't rss 16:34:41 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:34:41 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 16:34:41 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 16:36:21 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:38:23 elk11 [~elk11@68.Red-79-151-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:41 alexey_z [~alexey_z@ppp85-141-156-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:40:28 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.63.193] has joined #lisp 16:41:27 -!- gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gcv] 16:42:10 gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75566c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:37 -!- elk11 [~elk11@68.Red-79-151-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-crnxdsrdjxacfjwx] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:48:38 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-vrvxivtdfrhwlclh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:20 -!- gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gcv] 16:49:24 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:51:39 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 16:55:19 Fade: people don't seem to be friendly to you today 16:55:50 actuall, it's just gavinschuette 16:56:18 well, with stassats missing in action and pjb taking a rest day, somebody has to keep up the snark quotient. :) 16:57:10 ofc. #lisp must keep its elite status 16:58:38 anyhow, Xach warned us, and as usual, Xach was correct. 17:00:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:00:43 wasn't that gavino? 17:01:08 indeed it was 17:01:08 for the first question he asked, i would've liked to see a #lisp argument going on about which tools everyone uses. i guess/hope/assume that if some people are using lisp for administration tools, that a lot can be learned from how they are tackling the current problems with it. 17:01:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:02:07 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-sepwafrybwzhynbf] has joined #lisp 17:02:18 madnificent: gavino is a pretty notorious troll here. 17:02:29 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:39 nikodemus: congrats on the release! 17:02:58 antifuchs: apparently. i haven't been around much lately 17:03:34 with his sneaking-past-ban tactics, he's managed to pretty much shred the credibility anybody with the first name of "gavin" (: 17:03:35 BrianF_ [46a1ffcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.161.255.205] has joined #lisp 17:03:37 jsnell did all the release work :) 17:03:44 jjkola [~jjkola@syi-ogw1-3000.syi.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:03:46 or a nickname even closely resembling it (: 17:03:58 congrats to the sbcl team 17:04:02 antifuchs: it's not that hard to figure out a name without gavin if you want to trol 17:04:05 i only know you who works on it 17:04:13 pkhuong: does as well if I'm not mistaken? 17:04:55 are the non-linux releases always a tad later? or is that uncommon? 17:04:56 madnificent: it is for him, it seems! 17:05:05 antifuchs: figures 17:05:13 madnificent: the binary builds come in as soon as people make them (: 17:05:16 It's pretty easy to detect gavino. The questions are usually something like "Can Lisp be used to write a database?" or "Can you use Lisp for games?" or "Can you make a website with Lisp?" 17:05:17 yes. see: http://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=1373 17:05:29 All fairly reasonable questions. All repeated over and over and over again. 17:05:37 Xach: or "can you use lisp in the enterprise" 17:05:44 not everyone is active, though 17:05:46 hahh 17:05:50 Yes. "Can you get a job with Lisp?" 17:05:53 Xach: questions typical for a FAQ list... gavino is a bot! 17:06:10 http://technoninja.blogspot.com/ is gavino's blog (NSFWish last I checked) 17:06:29 )-m 17:07:37 jebus christos. 17:07:59 actually, http://www.ohloh.net/p/sbcl/contributors?query=&sort=latest_commit is probably more informative, since it shows you who has done stuff recently 17:08:39 *rsynnott* always assumed that gavino was a spoof by someone in the community 17:08:39 Xach: right, nsfw 17:09:16 clear case of infected brain meat. 17:09:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:10:02 nikodemus: interesting 17:11:27 nikodemus: what's the page with the changelist? or a description of what's new in this update 17:12:00 (also a redirect from sbcl.org to www.sbcl.org would be nice) 17:12:08 http://www.sbcl.org/news.html 17:12:47 thanks, just found it 17:13:59 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 17:17:15 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:19:17 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 17:20:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:25:09 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 *redline6561_* still wonders what's up with nyef's extended absence 17:26:35 I miss his low-level hackery I didn't understand. :( 17:26:45 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:43 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:31:42 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 -!- trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has left #lisp 17:33:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:37:22 -!- madnificent [~user@campus-extern-net-nat.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:34 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 17:37:49 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:38:16 rsynnott: there's only one brucio. 17:38:35 oh, brucio, yes; I confuse them. Similar name and all that 17:41:48 DelPuerto [~youguy@108.Red-212-170-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-sepwafrybwzhynbf] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:46:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:37 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:25 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-maxaanmutxwlcgux] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:02 does installing sbcl require me to have sbce ? 17:50:11 *sbcl 17:50:29 <_3b> installing a binary shouldn't 17:51:33 <_3b> compiling from source needs a CL implementation, of which sbcl is the most likely to work. clisp can usually be made to work as well, maybe ccl too 17:53:57 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:54:10 _3b: ah , I guess should download binary 17:56:15 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.156.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:32 poindontcare: you can use an sbcl binary from the distribution site, or another common lisp implementation. 17:56:40 I've used clisp to bootstrap sbcl recently 17:57:16 (DEFGENERIC.ERROR.20 DEFGENERIC.ERROR.21 DEFGENERIC.30 17:57:16 CALL-NEXT-METHOD.ERROR.1 CALL-NEXT-METHOD.ERROR.2 17:57:17 DEFMETHOD.ERROR.14 DEFMETHOD.ERROR.15 INVOKE-DEBUGGER.1 17:57:17 MAKE-CONDITION.3 MAKE-CONDITION.4 DELETE-PACKAGE.5 17:57:17 DELETE-PACKAGE.6 MAP.48 TYPE-OF.1 TYPE-OF.4 CHAR-NAME.1 17:57:26 My apologies 17:57:35 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-fmeybssdgbdblobl] has joined #lisp 17:57:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:58:33 poindontcare: if you're on OSX, Homebrew package manager gets SBCL installed smoothly 17:58:34 Fade: yup it worked 17:58:39 <_3b> easyE: were you the one asking about bitcoin mining in CL? 17:58:57 _3b: Yep. Idly, though. 17:58:58 time to try stumpwm 17:59:06 Did you get further? 17:59:19 <_3b> yeah, running at about 60% of epected rate on my GPU now 17:59:28 Nice. 17:59:41 <_3b> need to implement the stuff in opencl bindings to allow running GPU stuff asynchronously to get the rest of the speed 17:59:46 <_3b> working on that now 17:59:52 Is your library in quicklisp yet? 17:59:59 *_3b* has no idea 18:00:00 _3b: how much power (in watt) are you talking about here? 18:00:21 <_3b> flip214: a lot, i have an nv card, so it will never be efficient for bitcoin stuff :p 18:00:32 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 18:00:53 you should look at an FPGA ... there's an open source video card project, they have some development board 18:00:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:01:14 that should work nicely ... 18:01:18 <_3b> yeah, that's the next target if i decide to do any serious mining 18:01:36 <_3b> there is already an open source fpga miner i think 18:01:43 _3b: to be honest, before you're investing more than 3 or 4 hours for development just rent a botnet. 18:01:53 That's much more CPU power for much less money ;) 18:01:59 <_3b> less fun though :p 18:02:05 that's right 18:02:27 but possibly legal ... after all, "you just wanted to tell the people that they're hacked" ;) 18:02:47 <_3b> main purpose of working on the GPU miner was to have something to drive development of the opencl bindings 18:03:09 Is "renting a botnet" that trivial these days? I mean, I can do it all through IRC? 18:04:16 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@108.Red-212-170-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:04:17 easyE: highly illegal, naturally, but people do indeed rent them over the internet 18:04:33 What do they pay in? BTC? 18:05:32 well, traditionally usually through difficult-to-trace conventional methods (western union, compromised bank accounts used as conduits, etc) 18:05:40 maybe some pay with bitcoins now 18:06:19 Does anyone know the status of runing sbcl-1.0.50 on OS X 10.7 aka Lion? 18:06:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-fmeybssdgbdblobl] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:06:52 *easyE* maintains the MacPorts version, and is getting asked about this but has no access to OS X Lion yet. 18:07:38 easyE: google indicates that there are problems 18:07:43 #lisp: The Cybercrime Howto Channel. 18:07:50 rsynnott: thanks. 18:08:23 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:09:06 -!- mon_key [~user@74-143-13-202.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:25 mon_key [~user@74-143-13-202.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:08 is it a crime to ask how to rent a bot net and pay with btc and how much it costs , and who to contact ? 18:10:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10:28 Is that Lisp question? 18:10:44 (is-it-a-crime-p) 18:10:57 *_3b* doesn't see the opencl stuff in quicklisp 18:12:17 Well, if the renting is cheap, then mining might net a profit ... 1) rent a botnet 2) ... 3) Profit! 18:12:32 Here's an answer for 2 ... so long did I have to wait for one 18:12:45 Finally .... now I'm enlighted 18:14:20 is there a remove-if-not kind of function that returns the original sequence without the elements that satisfy the predicate? 18:14:33 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:44 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:14:52 poindontcare: you're asking how to misappropriate other people's computing resources? 18:15:00 Kenjin: (remove-if-not) 18:15:02 poindontcare: asking about it probably isn't a crime, but doing it is 18:15:08 also, it's pretty much off-topic here 18:15:17 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-xiffdkgevgsqvzid] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:19 sorry silly joke 18:15:25 Kenjin: you mean you want to side-effect the sequence? 18:15:27 What's the function similar to find, but which returns the CONS instead of the element? 18:15:37 flip214: MEMBER 18:15:42 ah, thanks 18:16:57 except member works only on lists, not sequences (: 18:17:04 pjb: hi 18:17:06 damn it, all these tweets about Cisco Live and the cisco Locator/Id Separation Protocol are super annoying. 18:17:07 flip214: hi 18:17:11 #cl #lisp 18:17:13 Hello Posterdati! 18:17:20 pjb: what about a Lisp based drone? 18:17:20 antifuchs: yeah, I've got a list anyway 18:17:23 Xach: +1 18:18:26 They could have the decency to spell it LISP. 18:19:05 yeah, part of those protocols are called CAR, CDR and CONS, too 18:19:23 p_l|backup: you're jokin? 18:20:41 -!- BrianF_ [46a1ffcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.161.255.205] has left #lisp 18:21:42 flip214: sykopomp: got it thanks 18:22:01 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:22:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.226.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:43 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:29:09 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.68.244] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 18:29:13 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:10 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:45 xan__ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:19 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 HG` [~HG@p5DC05F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:32 DelPuerto [~youguy@108.Red-212-170-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:54 Xach: this is the trouble with hashtags; they're dumb 18:43:41 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@108.Red-212-170-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:44 dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has joined #lisp 18:45:09 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:33 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-maxaanmutxwlcgux] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:20 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:21 easyE: I wish 18:48:45 easyE: oh, and the protocol is written in all caps 18:49:57 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:51 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-nzqdfcaeddgrexxa] has joined #lisp 18:52:11 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:46 Xach: is there an way to get all packages that were loaded via ql, or perhaps even all their dependencies too? 18:54:39 "get"? 18:55:12 "packages"? 18:55:53 well, if I do (ql:quickload :alexandria), the alexandria package (module?) and some dependencies are loaded (via ASDF). 18:56:07 Ok, I'm with you so far. 18:56:11 Is there a way to get the whole list? 18:56:24 asdf:*registered-systems* or something like that might help 18:56:27 I need to give ECL a list of source files to compile into .o, and then the .o for static compilation 18:56:37 thank you, I'll take a look 18:56:50 ECL has a build-system for that, iirc. 18:57:19 wivlaro: I don't have that 18:57:37 flip214: The whole list of what? 18:57:50 flip214: The systems loaded in a particular image? 18:57:55 Zhivago: yes, there's (compile-file) and (build-program) ... but this need a list of .o files to include in the binary 18:58:00 Xach: yes 18:58:33 flip214: (asdf:map-systems #'print) will print them. you could pass a more sophisticated function to collect them. 18:58:34 sorry, I'm still confused about module/package/system ... at least I mix up the terms 18:58:46 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 18:59:14 thanks, that looks promising 19:02:12 pnq [~nick@172.162.39.9] has joined #lisp 19:04:30 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 19:05:32 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:00 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08:22 Is there something like PUSH, but which pushes an entire list? apart from setting (setf (CDR (LAST new-list)) old-list old-list new-list), I mean 19:09:18 and apart from (setf old-list (append new-list old-list)) .. is there a modify macro? 19:11:57 NCONC 19:12:57 -!- alexey_z [~alexey_z@ppp85-141-156-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:13:00 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:14:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75566c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:29 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 19:15:30 Ahhh ... I absolute hate the wrong order of PUSH 19:15:45 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:47 I'm so used to the push in perl ... 19:15:48 flip214: wrong? 19:15:55 oh, well, different 19:16:12 push on a linked list tends to mean push on front, push on an array push on back, for practical reasons 19:16:22 rsynnott: yes ... (PUSH place obj obj obj ...) would be easier for me 19:17:05 rsynnott: I mean the parameter order - (PUSH what where) is the opposite order from perl, where it's PUSH WHERE, what, what, what, ... 19:17:07 On Lisp ch 12 gives (define-modify-macro concf (obj) nconc) 19:17:39 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-muxftehclfruaumf] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 yes, that should be in the standard ... like the changed order for PUSH .... !$&!%§$§$! 19:18:44 flip214: oh, I see 19:22:10 -!- mon_key [~user@74-143-13-202.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:22:33 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:36 rswarbrick_ [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:00 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-aoulynqfptdlmunc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:12 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:42 has anybody got an example or a link to an example of how to create/define a class with the mop from scratch? 19:35:26 Define a class? Do you mean of type standard-class or something more specific? 19:35:46 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:47 of type standard-class will do 19:35:55 minion: please tell harag about amop 19:35:55 harag: direct your attention towards amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the specification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 19:36:04 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-178-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:19 -!- sirmacik is now known as kichawa1 19:36:27 hey, I ordered that book today 19:36:32 Harag, In which case I don't think you really need to worry about the MOP. Don't you just want the defclass macro? 19:36:35 it's a fine book. 19:36:42 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:36:46 I lent it to my former supervisor and never got it back. 19:36:54 sykopomp: reading that specification just causes headaches 19:36:56 but that's okay. The book deserves more readers. 19:37:00 sykopomp: don't tell me the punch lines .. I want to read it myself! 19:37:07 Harag: the first half of the book explains the mop. Read that. 19:37:12 -!- kichawa1 is now known as sirmacik 19:37:15 Actually, read it on the train. 19:37:18 Without a computer. 19:37:25 It turns out to make a lot more sense that way 19:37:29 (or it did for me) 19:37:35 indeed 19:37:49 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 That said, it doesn't have a "so you want to define a subtle modification of standard-class? Here's what to do..." 19:38:33 In fact, I personally don't know anywhere that's been written down in a tutorial style 19:38:36 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:39 i just want to define classes on the fly 19:38:49 Harag: (eval (list 'defclass ...)) 19:39:12 Xach: is that eval going to slow? 19:39:17 *sykopomp* hears the design-smell alarms. 19:39:29 Eugh. 19:39:30 -!- benny [~benny@i577A24A4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:34 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 Or the ensure-class method? It'll be in sb-mop or whatever mop package you're using 19:39:47 Harag: If you want to talk about performance -- classes aren't really designed to be defined en-masse. 19:40:06 -!- xan__ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:57 Harag, Try macroexpanding a defclass form to see what it turns into. On sbcl, at least, it's nothing too crazy and it looks something like what you'll want to write. 19:41:17 Harag: what will you use thsoe classes for? 19:41:19 rswarbrick_: thanx will try that 19:42:00 Xach: its documents from a doc db that I want to convert to a class on the fly 19:42:50 Harag: why? 19:43:35 cause i dont have the time to rewrite the widget framework that uses classes to use the documents natively right now 19:44:09 Harag: what's wrong with defining generic accessors that use a more flexible data structure in the backend? 19:44:52 (defmethod first-name ((doc hash-table)) (gethash "first_name" doc)) 19:45:00 the widget framework (mostly the grid) expects "proper classes" with slots that mean one thing and one thing only 19:45:12 Harag: does it use slot-value to get them? 19:45:44 Also what sykopomp said. 19:45:45 will have to check but mostlikely 19:47:32 Harag: I use a document database myself. 19:49:17 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:49:25 sykopomp: do you use it for flexibility ie you dont have to know the structure of data completely upfront or just because it is just "bits and pieces" you are storing 19:49:52 Harag: right now, I'm just using it because it's relatively easy to prototype applications with. 19:50:28 although CouchDB has much more serious problems that are making me consider just switching to postgres once I've played around a bit more. 19:51:05 sykopomp: i want a document db so that the application can "evolve" over time 19:51:09 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:51:58 and i wrote my own little doc db because all the others where horribly slow when it came to stuff like sum 19:52:26 and sort 19:53:01 Harag: I'm not sure doc dbs help applications 'evolve' as much as people make them out to do so. 19:53:54 Harag: map/reduce seems pretty fast to me, on couch -- considering it's all precalculated. 19:54:30 sykopomp: what is fast? under a second for a million records? 19:54:33 and the actual calculations are done by SBCL (I have a native CL view server sitting behind Couch, so I write all my views in CL, which does the actual calculations) 19:55:09 Harag: 'fast' here is 'how long does it take you to find the key and send the value down the pipe?' 19:55:41 fast as in map the whole lot 19:56:03 I dunno. I guess that depends on the data. 19:56:09 <_3b> Harag: you need to use it right to get the speed, can't just make random different queries every time 19:56:17 finding one key happens less than doing stats on it for my application 19:57:11 -!- rpr [~rpr@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 19:57:22 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:57:35 *_3b* ended up not being able to use couch right though :p 19:57:43 Harag: CouchDB calculates stuff as you put it in the database. Finishing value reduction ends up being relatively cheap. 19:57:55 mongodb? 19:58:14 *_3b* is currently on redis, don't remember what i thought about mongo 19:58:20 mongo is supposedly pretty fast. 19:58:20 mongodb does a map of a million keys in about 24 seconds 19:58:38 its the javascript map reduce that kills it 19:59:06 so... use Couch and write your map/reduce in pure CL. :) 19:59:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:50 lack of atomicity is the main reason I might need to drop Couch :( 19:59:50 sykopomp: you using cl-couch? 19:59:55 Harag: no, Chillax. 20:00:44 whats a good time series db 20:01:18 postgres arrays? 20:01:22 mongo? 20:01:57 HumanRemains: what do you want to do, exactly? 20:03:05 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 time series analysis 20:05:03 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 20:05:48 Use R and either CSV or postgres 20:07:09 flip214: i don't quite follow what you want to do with systems and ecl, but maybe it would work better to stick an around method somewhere instead. 20:07:34 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 20:07:40 Xach: I think I've already found something that works ... in less than ten lines 20:07:47 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-169-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:49 R is nice 20:08:54 is that what you posted to the list? or something different? 20:09:13 its sensor data from a environmental monitor 20:09:34 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-170-107.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:39 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:12:51 about 10 years ago I had two 22k PTC on a joystick port ... one for inside, one for outside 20:13:03 measured temperature for about 3 years, IIRC 20:13:09 nice 20:13:29 -!- csdwifi [~carl@76.177.215.56] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:13:34 nice graphics, but no surprises in the FFT 20:19:28 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.44] 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[~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:24 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-224.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:54:55 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.34.76.140] has joined #lisp 23:55:00 Hi. 23:55:07 Did anyone use lush? 23:55:12 Lisp Universal Shell. 23:56:04 It allows to translate lisp code to native-compilable C code. 23:56:31 Well, there are also translators from CL to C. 23:56:40 And compilers from CL to C (ecl, gcl). 23:56:56 But I don't know how to manipulate with function arguments declared as (-gptr-) 23:56:59 There's a current cll post about translators. 23:57:17 So? 23:57:21 Learn about them. 23:57:35 Where? 23:58:47 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:58:55 I don't know. What's -gptr- arguments? 23:59:18 And why do you want to translate perfectly good lisp code to C?