00:00:39 gigamonkey, coders at work is an enjoyable read as well, thanks again. :-) reminds a little bit of "masters of doom" 00:01:25 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 00:02:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:03:25 littlebobby: Thanks. (I actually read MoD while preparing for C@W since I was hoping to interview Carmack.) 00:03:42 haha, great 00:04:47 wow that's so cool 00:05:04 Demosthenes [~demo@mab2536d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:05 how they remotely debugged the program on the Deep Space I mission 00:07:06 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC9BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:08:00 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:23 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 00:09:16 -!- kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:12:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-132-222.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:47 H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC9BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:46 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:15:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 00:15:46 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:16:18 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-132-222.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 00:24:41 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26:49 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:26:52 gigamonkey, I just stumpled upon "hackers - wizards of the electronic age" by accident again. you probably know that already, if not, you wanna watch that :-) 00:29:26 so 00:29:28 basically 00:29:45 you can think of the push function as sort of an addition? you add the first into second? 00:30:03 macro* sorry 00:30:34 lifechamp [~gary@40.166.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 00:30:50 lazerkob 00:32:52 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:37:21 Xach: Slyrus: either of you around? 00:38:38 littlebobby: cool. I've never seen that. 00:40:42 gigamonkey, I think I'll have to watch that again soon, it's really good 00:41:45 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:46:09 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mab2536d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:46:59 gigamonkey: About a month back you made a reference to some desire to deliver a webapp with a compressed filesystem (or something...). The other day i came across cl-fuse http://mtn-host.prjek.net/projects/cl-fuse/ and wondered if maybe it would fit the bill 00:50:18 good night :-) 00:50:25 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:51:52 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.6.197] has joined #lisp 00:52:29 daigo [~daigo@EM117-55-65-141.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 00:53:24 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06aaf9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 00:59:38 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:15 jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:20 -!- daigo [~daigo@EM117-55-65-141.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:54 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-43-42.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:06:42 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:44 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@184.234.27.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:07:57 -!- Salamander_ 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02:51:57 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:15 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:03:57 mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has joined #lisp 03:04:13 Good afternoon. 03:04:30 daigo_ [~daigo@EM117-55-65-140.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 03:05:03 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:41 -!- daigo [~daigo@EM117-55-65-141.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:07:05 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 03:07:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:09:52 On the PRO mailing list, there was that thread about library configuration. What is stopping you from extending ASDF with a CONFIGURABLE component which just signals a condition indicating that the system is in a state which is configurable. 03:19:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-puzvdjbvuzrlqbfj] has joined #lisp 03:22:51 -!- daigo_ [~daigo@EM117-55-65-140.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:31:27 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 03:31:47 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 03:33:57 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:02 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 03:36:46 cl-mongo is such a pile of shit 03:37:03 stinks of java 03:37:46 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37:51 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:39:44 huangho [~vitor@201-66-144-58.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:52:08 -!- huangho 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[~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:41 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:07:56 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:10 Demosthenes [~demo@72-255-98-199.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:39 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:46 hey 05:14:49 .seen fare 05:15:00 are the boston lisp meetings still happening? 05:20:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:24:11 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:25:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:27:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:04 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:37:31 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:40 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:40:19 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:43:28 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 05:43:28 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 05:43:28 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:44:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:37 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:53:54 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-008-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:45 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:39 Good morning everyone! 05:57:00 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 05:57:10 guten morgen 06:00:03 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:01:45 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:10:24 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:13:36 daigo [~daigo@nttkyo118024.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:15:51 -!- spytheman66 is now known as delian66 06:18:01 Zhivago: Re. statically linked ECL: git revert cbcb905d2899a47928eabcede81cb1e40b974622, thanks to Sylvain Ageneau 06:18:17 hello 06:19:27 -!- easytiger [~gerry@cpe-68-173-73-181.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:07 Good. :) 06:20:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:18 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 06:20:30 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:01 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:21:16 You were right ... a simple question on the list helps ;) I hope that Juan picks that up, too - or fixes it 06:21:24 -!- cracauer [~Adium@74.125.59.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:22:02 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 06:23:06 Zhivago: But I'm not sure whether the ECL binary works ... trying to run a script I get this: 06:23:12 An error occurred during initialization: Filesystem error with pathname #P"SYS:CMP.NEWEST" 06:23:27 dicktopus [~dicktopus@76.177.215.56] has joined #lisp 06:23:53 but that might be because the ECL binary is not installed - just called from the compilation location ... 06:24:13 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:04 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:27:02 cracauer [~Adium@64.119.159.9] has joined #lisp 06:29:09 ASau [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:31:37 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:57 -!- gravicappa 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joined #lisp 07:36:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-59.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:37:35 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@253.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-234.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:40:10 curious_corn [~ecausaran@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:40:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:43:22 -!- curious_corn [~ecausaran@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:44:05 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:45:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:05 flip214, CMP is a module, which is required for almost anything 07:48:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-234.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:01 deepfire: yes, ok. using "ecl -dir " I got to another error - Corrupt bytecodes file #P"/build/cmp.fasc". 07:49:15 $ file /build/cmp.fasc 07:49:15 /build/cmp.fasc: ASCII text, with very long lines 07:49:15 $ head -1 /build/cmp.fasc | cut -c1-70 07:49:15 (FUNCALL #Y(SI:BYTECODES NIL NIL (15 0 75 17 1 29) ("CL" EXT:PACKAGE-L 07:49:22 any ideas? 07:49:38 flip214, i.e. the ECL binary might be linked statically, but is it all that you want? 07:50:15 yes, it's statically linked. I'd like to generate single-file executables that don't need the libecl.so. 07:50:36 flip214, do you need CMP included? 07:50:47 don't know ... what part is that? 07:51:17 flip214, do you plan calling EVAL from within your lisp code? 07:51:29 not from the compilation result, no 07:51:38 flip214, COMPILE? 07:51:44 I don't know whether the compiler/macroexpander or whatever else needs it 07:52:10 flip214, CMP is the Lisp->C compiler 07:52:25 well, I have some lisp code and a few C files and would like a single executable, that needs libnss, libc, libpthread etc. but not libecl.so. 07:52:38 I hoped to achieve this by using a statically linked ECL. 07:52:40 Is that wrong? 07:53:04 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:53:10 flip214, you seem to be implying that I accuse you of wrongdoing : -) 07:53:36 no - I just thought that perhaps we're talking at cross-purposes. 07:53:54 I understand your words but not how they relate to the solution of my problem ;) 07:54:17 Can I use a --enable-shared ECL to get a binary that doesn't need libecl.so? 07:54:45 flip214, I'd just ask on the ECL list 07:54:46 to compile my sources I'll need the compiler - and, IIUC, the CMP module. 07:54:54 I did 07:56:15 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-103-16.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:56:30 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:01:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:44 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:55 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.60] has joined #lisp 08:12:20 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:30 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:12:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-31-149.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:33 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0024e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:14 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 08:17:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 08:17:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:18:13 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 08:19:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ipackjyakpbsbitl] has joined #lisp 08:20:41 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ipackjyakpbsbitl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:09 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.67.73] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:23:52 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:24:30 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:26:21 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:31:35 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill_] 08:34:31 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B603.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:13 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:08 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 08:40:43 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-008-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:41:35 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 08:44:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:48:42 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 08:48:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 08:48:42 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:48:45 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:05 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:53:59 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:54:03 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 08:54:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-27-85.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:57:21 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:46 holymoo [~chatzilla@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:25 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:21 huangho [~vitor@201-41-12-200.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 09:09:30 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:10:13 -!- holymoo [~chatzilla@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110429083448]] 09:10:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:10:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:10:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:11:33 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-207-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:11:55 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:13:32 Krystof [~csr21@149.5.64.141] has joined #lisp 09:14:36 after moving to new laptop I, for some reason, have a weird problem 09:14:49 I have an installed binary sbcl, I got to sbcl/bin and do ./sbcl 09:14:56 and it says "file not found" 09:14:57 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 09:15:08 it is there, it has correct permissions and I can even cat it 09:15:17 is something really fucked up on my machine 09:15:26 strace it and see which file it tries to open 09:15:32 (or ktrace) 09:15:33 <_3b> correct architecture? 09:15:37 freiksenet: a shared library will be the wrong version 09:16:00 _3b: it's x86. I have 64-bits, but it used to run correctly before %) 09:16:04 freiksenet: try "ldd sbcl" 09:16:16 perhaps some 32bit libraries missing 09:16:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:16:25 "not a dynamic executable" 09:16:45 "file sbcl" ? 09:17:02 sbcl: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped 09:17:30 do you have a /lib/ld-linux-32 or something like that? 09:18:12 nope. okay, probably need to install 32bit compat libs 09:18:17 thanks ) 09:18:41 You could also get 64bit sbcl 09:18:50 perhaps a wrong libc - my current binaries all show "GNU/Linux 2.6.26" for libc6-2.13 09:19:35 drdo: no, I can't. 09:19:53 freiksenet: Why not? 09:20:02 drdo: we use 32 bit in production 09:20:10 oh ok 09:20:11 flip214: thanks, install 32bit libc helped 09:20:32 strange that the 64bit ldd said "not a dynamic executable" 09:20:53 Poor ldd just didn't recognize it 09:21:05 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0024e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:33 I would have expected a friendlier error message than "file not found" 09:21:39 like "file not a correct executable" 09:21:54 no, that's normal ... after all, the matching libc wasn't found 09:22:01 (in /lib32, I'd expect) 09:22:46 flip214: That might be normal, that doesn't make it any less stupid 09:22:56 "file not found" is a very bad error message 09:22:58 well it could have written "/lib32/libc" not found 09:23:12 I though I have some filesystem bug or smth 09:23:16 like badly copied stuff 09:23:24 I've spend a lot of time before trying to figure out what sort of black magic is going on when that happened to me 09:23:32 well, strace is a good friend 09:23:45 yeah, now I will know that. 09:23:46 I was puzzled, i could open the file no problem 09:23:49 but of course you're right ... a better error message would be nice 09:23:56 But then "file not found" when trying to execute 09:29:51 <_3b> does sbcl tests/run-tests.sh log output somewhere? 09:35:27 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-67-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:35:32 you can redirect it with > 09:35:35 or tee 09:35:46 *_3b* wants output of an already started run 09:36:03 sadface 09:36:05 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-avwmebyuxpaorlty] has joined #lisp 09:36:33 <_3b> well, only a few clicks to copy/paste it from the xterm, but i thought it was stored somewhere already 09:37:18 _3b: if it's an xterm there should be a 'log to file' option 09:37:20 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-41-12-200.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:37:41 screen, tmux, etc. can even write the scrollback buffer as a whole to a file 09:38:12 <_3b> looks like xterm log doesn't do scrollback though 09:38:36 <_3b> already copied with mouse, so good enough 09:38:39 no, I guess it won't 09:38:57 just start that in screen next time ... or better even, tmux 09:39:28 <_3b> or use a lisp that passes tests :p 09:41:18 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:42:57 *_3b* guesses i'll just leave that xterm sitting in case an sbcl dev wakes up and thinks it is worth trying to debug 09:43:25 _3b: it is not reproducible? 09:43:36 <_3b> well, that was the next thing to try :) 09:47:00 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:47:22 lifechamp [~gary@40.166.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:49:17 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 09:52:12 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-151-19.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:53:48 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 09:54:39 <_3b> well, 2 runs of that file and not happened again yet, naturally that test is at the end of a rather long file of tests :p 09:56:04 <_3b> and looks like that test is pretty random anyway... 4 threads doing a bunch of stuff at once 09:56:07 _3b: which test fails? 09:56:17 _3b: oh, i think nikodemus is aware of that one 09:56:27 <_3b> :PARALLEL-DEFCLASS in threads.impure.lisp 09:56:36 _3b: hmm, not that one 09:57:02 *_3b* tries varying system load a bit 09:57:11 _3b: mine was with deadlocks in threads.pure 09:57:36 sacho [~sacho@95-42-88-207.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:00:14 <_3b> few more passes 10:00:22 *_3b* adds a loop around that test 10:01:47 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-46.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:03 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-166.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 zfx [~zfx@host81-158-150-122.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- zfx [~zfx@host81-158-150-122.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:08:41 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 10:09:35 <_3b> hmm, maybe looping isn't a good way to stress it 10:10:21 <_3b> it prints "ok" 10 times in the middle of the middle of the output, and don't see how those come from that test 10:10:30 <_3b> only happens in the first pass when i loop it 10:10:44 *_3b* notes that the previous test creates 10 threads and doesn't seem towait for them to finish 10:11:09 <_3b> ... and they print "ok" when they do finish 10:11:16 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:11:20 <_3b> and the failed run crashed after 5 "ok" 10:11:41 what would be the best way to implement a commutative function? the example I am thinking of is scalar multiplication of a vector. 10:12:16 *_3b* would start with DEFUN, and continue from there 10:12:43 *_3b* isn't really sure what the question is though 10:12:58 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:05 <_3b> how to write a function with args of different types that can be in any order? 10:13:11 yes 10:13:31 *_3b* would probably lean towards just requiring a specific order 10:13:53 hi 10:14:12 <_3b> sort of depends how much you value performance vs convenience though 10:14:17 yeah I might do that 10:14:29 easier 10:15:12 <_3b> if you not as worried about speed, and writing generic functions, maybe define a macro to define both orders at once with the same body 10:17:30 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 10:21:45 *_3b* tried running both tests in 1 loop, just the one by itself doesn't seem to want to break 10:25:52 <_3b> and it fails, since someone tricked me by switching packahes in the middle of the file :p 10:28:18 youguy [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has joined #lisp 10:28:47 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:06 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 10:30:43 <_3b> yeah, looks like that did it, LDB on loop #32 10:31:09 <_3b> actually, maybe not even LDB, just hang 10:34:30 foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.119.8] has joined #lisp 10:37:24 *_3b* wonders if the extra threads cause GC and that deadlocks with the defclass stuff, or if it is just threads exiting that is triggering it 10:46:01 Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has joined #lisp 10:46:11 <_3b> ... and maybe LDB doesn't work even if i do get one 10:52:23 -!- youguy [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:52:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:56:22 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:56:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:58:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:58:26 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC9DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:57 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-166.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:00:46 daniel [~daniel@p5B326AF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:59 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC9BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:16 -!- daniel___ 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[~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:42 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:53:39 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:43 Krystof [~csr21@149.5.64.141] has joined #lisp 12:59:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:01:21 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.245.96] has joined #lisp 13:05:17 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06aaf9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:19 Hello! 13:06:53 Hello 13:08:44 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:25 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-208-209.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 13:13:28 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 13:14:31 xan_ [~xan@241.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:16:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:49 easytiger [~gerry@rrcs-69-193-212-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:16 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Quit: Byes!] 13:25:04 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 13:29:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:02 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 13:30:37 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:31:36 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:31:41 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Client Quit] 13:31:47 Good morning, all. 13:35:01 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 13:35:35 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 13:36:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:39:21 -!- Krystof [~csr21@149.5.64.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:39:46 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:29 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:29 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:08 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:43 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 13:45:42 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:45:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:07 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 13:47:18 Krystof [~csr21@149.5.64.141] has joined #lisp 13:47:38 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 13:48:32 it's a wonderful day 13:48:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:50:45 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:50:46 It's Friday. That certainly helps./ 13:51:16 (I took you off 'ignore' when it seemed you were contributing to conversations productively yesterday. :P ) 13:53:44 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:55:19 gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:30 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:00:28 pnq1 [~nick@AC8126BD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:45 -!- pnq [~nick@172.164.65.17] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:00:54 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 14:00:59 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:01:06 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 14:01:34 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007065.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 14:01:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:20 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:03:06 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:41 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:07 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.235] has joined #lisp 14:05:47 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-avwmebyuxpaorlty] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:09:10 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:21 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:10:02 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:09 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:22 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:49 _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:14:08 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:47 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:27 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 14:19:39 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 14:21:31 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:21:38 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-kxtzrsbvmmhqafca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:14 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:25:01 get back to work you slackers 14:25:21 (or (equal foo a) (equal foo b) (equal foo c) ... ) <- any nicer way to write this? 14:26:56 kennyd, (position foo (list a b c ...) :test #'equal) 14:27:28 thanks 14:27:40 youguy [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:28:17 kennyd, or perhaps more appropriately, (member foo (list a b c ..) :test #'equal) 14:31:34 that one's nicer 14:31:37 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.6.197] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:31:41 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:31:57 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:32:23 btw how come all :tests in standard functions equal to #'eq instead of #'equal? 14:32:46 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-218-211.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:33:03 kennyd: I think they're generally for numeric comparison 14:33:04 not sure when I had a case where #'equal would be a wrong choice, while #'eq often is 14:33:14 true 14:34:17 kennyd: they're #'eql, not #'eq 14:35:45 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.223.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:37:16 kennyd, because lisp is old and outdated 14:37:31 prout [51ae994e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.153.78] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 (but still my weapon of choice) 14:39:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:16 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8126BD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:42 rpg [~rpg@c-98-229-120-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:58 yeah same 14:44:26 but getting a bit frustrated by some things. even worse is case, it doesn't even have :test argument. 14:44:50 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.167.31] has joined #lisp 14:44:54 kennyd: so make a case macro with a test argument 14:45:05 not exactly rocket science 14:47:35 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xfxyukkyvazchtzo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:32 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 14:49:44 it's been on my todo list for a while 14:49:58 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:53 dlowe, are you impressed: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-raii/src/adc54ca45882/cl-raii.lisp 14:51:01 gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:24 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.245.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:04 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 kennyd: the point is that you should (defpackage "MY-LISP" (:export ...)) and in your programs, you should write: (defpackage "MY-PROGRAM" (:use "MY-LISP")) instead of (defpackage "MY-PROGRAM" (:use "COMMON-LISP")) 14:53:43 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-76-121-97-74.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:43 in the package MY-LISP, you can define the functions as you like them, with :test equal by default etc. 14:53:57 Quadrescence: should work for simple cases of resource acquisition 14:54:11 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@149.5.64.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:19 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:55:41 dlowe, :) 14:55:47 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 14:56:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 14:57:33 -!- youguy [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:58:08 pjb wouldnt it be better to use different names? might be confusing to redefine CL functions 15:00:09 They would be different names. my-lisp:find is not cl:find. 15:00:40 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:31 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:51 -!- sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:09 kennyd, you can see an example of the kind of thing that pjb is talking about in my code which makes arithmetic functions into generic ones: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-generic-arithmetic/src 15:11:24 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:18 Quadrescence interesting! did you override < > etc too? (I can't download your file now) 15:12:20 just the thing when your arithmetic is just too fast 15:13:20 i wanted to create generic < etc as well, but wasn't sure if it would be considered a bad style to override < 15:13:40 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-54-210.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:14:37 kennyd: you cannot override cl:< 15:15:05 It is forbidden by 11.1.2.1.2. 15:15:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:15:28 dlowe, ha 15:15:32 But you can write your own my-lisp:< 15:15:55 what makes < special 15:16:14 The fact that it is in the CL package. 15:16:17 Read 11.1.2.1.2 ! 15:16:22 yeah that's what I meant 15:16:44 kennyd, I defined cl/ga:<, which shadows ("overrides") cl:< 15:17:48 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:17:59 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:07 dlowe, I hope you understand a possible reason for doing all that stuff. :) 15:21:53 Quadrescence: it seems unlikely to me to bring much essential benefit 15:21:57 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:09 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill_] 15:22:47 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:16 last shuttle start in just a few minutes, if you're interested... http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ 15:23:25 thanks 15:23:58 thanks 15:24:06 dlowe, It was made mainly for mathematical use. For instance, rtoym made a quad-double precision float package. It just allows a little smoother use of the package. Essential? No. 15:26:20 also http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/135_splash/index.html 15:26:28 slightly diff 15:26:31 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 30 secs 15:26:46 pjb, what was the last piece of code you wrote 15:26:48 aargh 15:26:50 not loading :( 15:26:54 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:24 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:36 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:40:41 -!- macrobat is now known as cro 15:41:34 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:40 -!- cro is now known as macrobat 15:42:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:32 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 15:44:00 so, with SBCL, if I wanted to make a function alias "my-eq", which acts in every way like "eq", including that the function (defun f (x) (pushnew 5 x :test #'my-eq)) is optimized the same way as if it said #'eq...how would I do that? 15:45:17 well, you really can't... eq is hard-compiled (at a lower level) than any function you'd write yourself in lisp 15:45:17 (defun my-eq (a b) (eq a b)) (declaim (inline my-eq)) 15:45:19 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Quit: ..] 15:45:33 so you won't get the same performance, i think 15:46:09 pjb: doesn't work; the ir1transform for adjoin knows that my-eq is not eq. 15:46:31 How has this any importance? 15:46:51 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007065.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:47:08 well, because in a debug mode compile, I want it to do something else, but in an optimized compile, to just *be* eq. 15:47:22 foom: you'd have a lot of grep to do. 15:47:27 er, not *do* something else, but check types. 15:47:43 oh, so you'd be ok with a compiler macro/source transform? 15:47:49 #+debug my-eq #-debug eq 15:48:05 pjb: that's useless advice. 15:48:15 foom: although, yeah, I suppose that package trickery is another option. 15:48:32 That's sound advice. 15:48:47 zomgbie [~jesus@81-223-172-226.dreihufeisengasse.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:48:49 pjb: right. Let's put reader conditional everywhere in the code base. 15:49:49 well, currently it's implemented (and has long been implemented) as a inline defun + defknown movable foldable flushable. 15:50:39 oh, and compiler macro. I forgot that part. :) 15:50:49 But that doesn't help adjoin. 15:51:00 You cannot define a compiler macro on a CL function. 15:51:12 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 15:51:12 pjb: that's not what I suggested. 15:51:39 foom: package trick, that's the best I can think of. 15:52:18 I was hoping (setf (symbol-function 'my-eq) #'eq) would be enough to placate adjoin's transform, but it knows better, it seems. 15:52:32 foom: that wouldn't be safe, at all. 15:53:01 unsafe in what way? 15:53:15 You could (setf symbol-function) again. 15:53:19 you could play with the ir1tran for FUNCTION ;) 15:53:56 Frankly, if you need something as sophisticated to make sure your program is correct, you have a big problem... 15:53:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:54:03 huh? 15:54:12 I need my program to be *fast*, not *correct*. 15:54:19 It's already ensured that it's correct. :) 15:54:37 foom: package trick. Done. 15:54:53 that's about as early a binding as you can get in CL. 15:55:41 It's unfortunate that packages are the only way to alias symbols, rather than being able to alias them between names within a package. Oh well. 15:55:44 Get a better algorithm. Don't much with EQ! 15:55:50 s/much/muck/ 15:55:52 I'm not messing with eq 15:55:54 that's the whole point 15:55:56 eq is eq 15:56:02 pjb: huh? EQ is a fairly fundamental operation in algorithmics. 15:56:11 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 15:56:36 I have a my-equality-function, which just so happens to be eq. 15:56:56 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 15:57:06 Rather than putting eq all over the code, I want to use my-equality-function, for clarity. But have it be equivalent to eq, for speed. 15:58:40 (so, although package tricks may be the way to do such a thing in CL, I'm not actually going to do that, because it rather destroys the clarity of the name. Probably instead just not call pushnew there) 15:59:07 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:07 delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has joined #lisp 16:01:15 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:01:23 ... 16:01:27 silenius [~silenus@i59F716CA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:00 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:20 foom: use a read macro. 16:02:35 [my-equality] --> eq 16:02:38 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.131.137.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 16:03:33 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-130-59.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:04:04 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:24 pjb, what don't you like about #'x 16:04:38 this sounds like the actual problem is different 16:04:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@241.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:12 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05:17 #' doesn't rename. foom wants #'my-quality-function --> #'eq 16:05:33 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:41 pjb, No, this is completely different. I was just wondering why you don't like #' 16:05:44 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-100-188.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:10 Because it's sharp and pointy. I prefer the roundness and chubbyness of parentheses (function x). 16:06:19 :) 16:06:20 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:13 What about a symbol-macrolet? I never used that, but it might be applicable here, no? 16:07:21 xan_ [~xan@119.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 That only applies to symbols used in variable positions. 16:09:43 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:09:44 Isn't it in (function foo)? 16:10:13 No. Here it is used in special operator argument position. 16:10:34 Oh. OK. Nevermind, then. 16:11:24 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-218-211.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:04 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #lisp 16:12:32 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:13:59 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 16:13:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:13:59 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:14:26 youguy [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 16:15:02 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Quit: destroy, despise, distrust, disobey, distrust, disarm, destroy, dispise, dissect, deny, destroy, despise, distrust... love is suicide.] 16:15:23 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@38.104.194.118] has joined #lisp 16:15:45 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-229.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:15:54 -!- realitygrill_ 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[~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:44:52 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 17:45:45 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:59 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|fkn_away_nick 17:46:25 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:31 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:50:17 unStoppable [~unStoppab@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 17:50:21 hello 17:50:47 (let ((list '(1 2 3))) (eval '(length list))) <- gives me "variable LIST has no value". why? 17:51:00 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:13 unStoppable: because in your let statement, you are treating the symbol list as a variable name 17:51:22 unStoppable: EVAL evaluates code in the null lexical environment. 17:51:22 oh wait 17:51:34 not in the current one. 17:51:41 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:49 -!- Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:58 so I can't get this one working? 17:52:13 what sykopomp says: eval will evaluate code as if it was on the top level, with no LETs wrapped around it 17:52:13 not this particular one, no. 17:52:19 hmm 17:52:29 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 17:53:09 you could make LIST a special variable and use that 17:53:11 but ew 17:54:07 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 17:54:11 I wanted to do something like this: (let ((arguments '(1 2 3 4)) (test-forms '((func1 arg) (func2 arg))) (loop for test in test-forms (loop for arg in arguments do (print (eval test))))) 17:54:17 any suggestions? 17:54:44 unStoppable: Do you know how to use macros? 17:55:10 why were you quoting (length list) in the first place? 17:55:13 i have moderate knowledge of macros 17:55:30 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:40 or more likely basic compared to most of you 17:55:42 unStoppable: if you're not expecting to dynamically provide test-forms (meaning, if you expect to literally write (test-forms ...), you can use macros to get the desired effect. 17:55:47 with nicer syntax, to boot. 17:55:52 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:00 Inode it's a form that i want to evaluate 17:56:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:58:30 unStoppable: but if what you really want is a test suite, there's plenty to choose from, for CL. 17:58:32 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-053-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:38 test frameworks, rather. 17:58:51 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:06 yeah I should probably use one, I just wanted a quick and dirty way to test some functions I wrote and was disappointed this didn't work 17:59:09 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:23 thought I was being clever. :P 17:59:23 carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.59] has joined #lisp 17:59:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:57 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 18:01:09 pjb: I noticed on the quicklisp blag that com-informatigo is now included. does this mean if i update my dist that I can do (quicklisp:quickload 'com-informatigo)...? 18:01:23 Yes. 18:01:27 unStoppable why not (funcall fun arg) ? 18:01:44 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01:57 kennyd: test forms may be macros. 18:02:10 pjb: cool! so the logical pathname stuff is now automagical? 18:02:17 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:27 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 18:02:45 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-94.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:02:50 What logical pathname stuff? Now there are .asd files for com.informatimago.* 18:03:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:18 they weren't macros (but right they could be), but I had something like this: (functions ((func1 arg some-other-argument) (func2 arg))) 18:03:50 pjb: Maybe I am misremembering. I seem to recall that that one used to have to set some logical-pathname-translations... 18:04:12 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:26 Yes, once upon a time, I use (load "PACKAGEs:COM;INFORMATIMAGO;COMMON-LISP;UTILITY.LISP") etc. 18:04:29 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:04:50 so how do you recommend macro syntax looking? how would I specify argument in a test-form. just arg as well? 18:05:08 unStoppable: (funcall (lambda () (macro thing))) 18:05:09 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:28 unStoppable: I would recommend looking at existing test frameworks and getting ideas from those. Macro syntax is a matter of taste. 18:05:36 :DDDRUNK 18:05:41 pjb: Ok. I guess I will be updating my dist soon [: 18:06:12 freiksenet: wrong channel, freik :\ 18:06:36 sykopomp: what? 18:07:25 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-85-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:17 btw just curious 18:12:37 how would I do this:"you could make LIST a special variable and use that" 18:13:26 unStoppable: (defvar *list* '(1 2 3 4)) (eval '(print (car *list))) works. 18:13:28 err 18:13:30 *list* 18:13:34 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:13:39 ah 18:13:41 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:44 ew? 18:13:50 haha 18:13:51 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:14:00 (print (car (symbol-value '*list*))) 18:14:02 and I can use that in a loop right 18:14:13 I can use *list* as a loop argument 18:14:15 dlowe: well, sure :) 18:14:56 (let ((list (list 1 2 3))) (declare (special list)) (eval '(print (car list)))) ; works too. 18:15:18 nice 18:15:28 and it disappears after the let I suppose 18:15:33 yes 18:16:25 unStoppable: but the point is that instead of using eval, you should use closures and funcall/apply. 18:16:35 i can't use them 18:16:40 (let ((list (list 1 2 3))) (funcall (lambda () (print (car list))))) 18:16:56 You can. 18:17:33 maybe I'm wrong but I think I need eval 18:17:50 doing this (not fixed with declare yet): (let ((arguments '(1 2 3 4)) (test-forms '((func1 arg) (func2 arg))) (loop for test in test-forms (loop for arg in arguments do (print (eval test))))) 18:21:07 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 18:21:39 unStoppable: http://pastebin.com/6yfss9Xp 18:24:30 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 18:24:33 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 18:26:36 I will take a look at that in a moment, can you just tell me why this still isn't working? http://pastebin.com/J0R4LE99 18:27:27 and yeah the way you did it will only work if all the functions take just that single argument 18:28:17 no sorry I misunderstood 18:28:21 unStoppable: of course not. 18:28:22 it'll work fine 18:28:34 (lambda (&rest args) (apply (function f1) args)) 18:29:09 Notice that you can also write directly (list (function f1) (function f2)), no need to use lambda if you don't do anything special in it. 18:29:29 I meant (func1 arg) part. I missed that it's wrapped in a lamba 18:29:43 unStoppable: This may not work because loop can bind a new loop variable, which therefore won't be special. 18:30:21 Once again, there are reasons why it's advised to use closures instead of eval. 18:30:52 -!- bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:05 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-053-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32:05 oh but this one worked 18:32:18 It's random. Depends on the implementation. 18:32:21 (defvar arg nil) (let .... ). 18:32:38 Yes, if you make it globally special. 18:32:49 is that guaranteed to work? 18:32:57 But then you must name it *arg* unless you want to spend two days on futile debugging. 18:33:00 Yes. 18:33:01 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-203.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:34:24 Actually, both case are specified, (let ((arg)) (declare (special arg)) (loop for arg ... #| arg is not special |#)) and (defvar *arg*) (loop for *arg* ... #| *arg* is special |#) 18:34:59 the implementation specific stuff is when you write (loop for arg ...) whether it's equivalent to (let (arg) (loop (setf arg ...) ...)) or (loop (let ((arg ...)) ...)). 18:35:09 which is irrelevant for your problem. 18:36:16 okay. I'm just happy it worked. :) 18:36:19 just one thing 18:37:14 how can I expand *a* in a `(1+ *a*) for printing purposes? so that I get (1+ 2) => 3 output instead of (1+ *A*) => 3 18:37:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-203.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:00 `(1+ ,*a*) 18:38:32 but those are test forms, before *a* is assigned to 18:38:38 (test-forms '((1+ *a*) (1- *a*) (+ 10 *a*))) 18:39:02 Hence the use of closures instead of insisting on this ill-advised half-solution. 18:39:20 so I'm stuck again? no way to expand it 18:39:24 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:29 unStoppable: you can write a program. 18:39:43 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-101.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:40:18 closures work nice, but are more verbose to type 18:40:36 You can write functions and macros to reduce typing. 18:41:57 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:27 For example, you can write a macro: (make-test-expression (x) (1+ x)) that will return an expression building a list of two closures ( #.(lambda (#1=#:x) (1+ #1#)) (lambda (#2=#:x) `(1+ ,#2#)) ) ; the first evaluates the expression, the other produces a sexp with the arguments instanciated. 18:42:49 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 that looks good 18:45:13 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:42 but I probably want this instead: (make-test-expressions (x '(1 2 3 4)) (1+ x) (1- x) (+ x 10))) which would return a list of paired lambdas 18:45:52 what do you think 18:47:57 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 18:48:13 I want to take a look at some test framework syntax. which one is usually recommended 18:48:37 then I'll try to replicate it 18:49:02 I think LIFT, 5am and RT are pretty popular 18:49:17 RT is the most minimal of them all (: 18:50:42 antifuchs: was it you that was doing the cucumber thing? 18:51:07 it was me! 18:51:08 use RT if you want minimalistic one-file hack-it-into-submission ware. 5am or stefil otherwise. 18:51:10 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-198-94.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: tubby bye-bye!] 18:51:12 -!- prout [51ae994e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.153.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51:24 (I have to check out stefil!) 18:51:40 I'm really happy with clucumber - but that's a very unconventional way to test lisp software (: 18:51:56 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:53:00 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:53:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-101.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-234.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:58:01 -!- 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has joined #lisp 19:51:12 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:11 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:00 -!- easytiger [~gerry@rrcs-69-193-212-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:55:45 -!- ec|fkn_away_nick is now known as elliottcable 19:58:21 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01:29 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:39 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:37 Soulman [~knute@132.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:28 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-67-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:11:58 prot__ [51ae994e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.153.78] has joined #lisp 20:12:08 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-12-219.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:13:12 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.67.73] has joined #lisp 20:14:07 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-130-59.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:15 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.67.73] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:47 How do you put a newline in a string without literally writing a newline in your code? 20:16:55 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:19 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:19 oh you can't eh 20:18:06 clhs ensure-newline 20:18:37 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:19:12 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.39.219.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:31 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:19:44 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-229.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:51 zort-: why do you need it? 20:20:22 "~%" is the newline for FORMAT 20:25:04 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:36 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:25:50 zort- check out cl-interpol. it lets you do this #?"\t\n" 20:26:28 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:27:07 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:40 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:29:28 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:29:50 it supports more than I remembered. http://weitz.de/cl-interpol/ 20:29:55 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 20:30:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:30:56 is #? thingy a macro? 20:31:38 unStoppable: a reader macro. 20:31:43 that's not a normal macro. 20:31:59 reader macros are resolved by the reader. 20:31:59 jstypo [~jstypo@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 20:32:04 i see 20:33:11 that thing is amazing 20:33:21 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:37 what is? 20:33:41 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:48 library above, cl-interpol 20:34:36 (let ((a 10)) #?"${(+ 1 a)}") 20:34:39 "11" 20:34:47 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:35:25 One day that will not look like line noise to me. 20:35:57 probably took it a bit far but this looks readable to me: 20:36:06 (let ((a 10)) #?"value of a is ${a}") 20:36:16 "10" 20:36:23 perl-style interpolations 20:36:35 I was thinking it looked much like Perl. 20:36:36 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 20:36:54 why would you do that ._. 20:37:12 it's more concise than format 20:37:18 because it saves you string calculations and stringifications? 20:38:51 even if you don't like ${a} interpolation, it's nice to be able to type \n \t etc directly in string 20:41:03 kennyd: amen 20:42:47 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:46:43 francogrex [~user@109.130.7.93] has joined #lisp 20:47:21 katesmith_ [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:21 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:47:21 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:47:56 I'm getting bogged down translating this C to lisp (for fun and learning): http://cl.dyndns-ip.com can someone give a hint to make the lisp give same results as the c ? 20:48:49 Franco, you've got different values for 'g' there. 20:49:16 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:26 And that C is an abomination in any event. 20:49:30 francogrex: what is this weird C code? 20:49:43 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:51 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:50:19 hmm ChibaPet yes otherwise the loop won't start if i set g to zero 20:50:35 pnq [~nick@ACA284D5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:43 z0d: It's probably igly but it's very consize 20:50:48 borassus [c4280a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.196.40.10.133] has joined #lisp 20:50:55 francogrex: yeah, but what does it do? 20:51:05 it returns zero 20:51:13 it spits out random numbers along the way 20:51:17 it prints pi 20:51:39 I can optimize the return zero part <-: 20:51:41 to 2400 decimals but that's not the point 20:52:28 Ah, if the length returned doesn't matter, enter this at tour REPL: pi 20:52:34 your* 20:52:57 ChibaPet: *rolls eyes* 20:53:00 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:17 I'm just saying, weigh the effort versus the result. 20:53:45 it's for fun and trying to see how can you as consizely translate the c to lisp 20:53:58 It's non-idiomatic C though. 20:54:11 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:19 it's very weird it's true 20:54:53 -!- borassus is now known as borassus_ 20:56:28 -!- borassus_ [c4280a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.196.40.10.133] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:56:43 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.39.219.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:01 btw it's weird that lisppaste is still down 20:57:15 borassus [~borassus@ip133-10.ct.co.cr] has joined #lisp 20:57:17 it is? 20:57:18 ok. 20:58:16 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:58:50 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:59:15 hmm, zpb-ttf gets some curves wrong on the 0 glyph for selected fonts 21:02:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA284D5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:04 -!- Younder [~john@145.234.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:36 francogrex: restarting the bots. 21:06:55 francogrex: I've taken yet more measures to get them stable. 21:07:06 hoping it works :-) 21:07:27 BruceWii [~ChongLi@dslb-092-076-084-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:33 ehu: ok it's been a while. Thanks 21:08:01 been down a while? yea. started wednesday, I think? 21:09:20 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:20 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:21 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:51 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:01 -!- rpg [~rpg@c-98-229-120-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:10:07 ok. that should do it. 21:10:17 sorry for the inconvenience. 21:12:54 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:01 BrokenCog [~bc@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:03 yup. it's running again. 21:16:06 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:16:35 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:48 yay! 21:17:52 -!- prot__ [51ae994e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.174.153.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:18:23 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 21:18:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:38 ok so now you can correct my code 21:20:47 pnq [~nick@ACA2214E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:48 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:43 francogrex: You should use Zeta-C and see how it translates C to Lisp... 21:30:50 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 21:31:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:11 francogrex: translating is silly. You should reverse engineer the algorithm, and re-implement it. 21:31:50 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:16 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:33:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:21 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:24 pjb: doesn't zeta-c need a lisp machine? Where do I get one know? 21:36:56 -!- BruceWii [~ChongLi@dslb-092-076-084-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:39:14 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0119c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:16 http://www.cliki.net/Zeta-C 21:40:55 pjb: yes but from what I saw last it doesn't build or run on our PCs does it? 21:41:08 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 21:41:22 hi 21:41:53 francogrex: you looking for a C to lisp compiler? 21:42:12 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:23 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has joined #lisp 21:42:27 prxq: yes why not 21:42:55 I wasn't looking initially but now after pjb mentioned zeta-c... 21:44:04 I'd be interested in a pascal compiler. Even if it were somewhat old fashioned. 21:44:35 prxq: pascal to lisp you mean? 21:44:42 pjb: yes 21:44:57 Should be rather easy to write one. 21:45:12 After all, the Pascal Report is less than 50 pages... 21:45:17 for those that know how, i.e. that know parser etc technology 21:45:35 pjb: sure, and it has a decent syntax, unlike C. 21:45:45 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 21:46:15 (still baroque, of course) 21:47:09 prxq: parser technology? Pascal was pretty much designed to be easy to parse with a recursive descent program. 21:47:34 Yes, basically, you copy and paste the bnf, put it in sexps, and you're done. 21:47:43 pkhuong: sure, but I have little knowledge of that stuff. 21:47:57 i was assuming pjb was suggesting I write one myself 21:48:00 Take half a week end to write the "standard library", and that's it. 21:48:01 prxq: there is nothing to learn about recursive descent parsing. 21:48:19 ok :-) 21:48:32 pkhuong: there is something to learn about everything if you've never played with it before 21:48:39 You can get rdp from http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/rdp/ 21:49:08 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 21:49:32 I used as a practical use of recursion to first year students. Much more interesting than fib or hanoi. 21:49:49 Definitely. 21:50:37 almost all of them managed to write one in Java without too much help. 21:51:01 pkhuong: you have good students 21:51:18 Why do you punish them with Java? 21:51:32 pjb: because it's better that than Modula. 21:52:01 I don't think so, but what about CL? If Robert can do it, so can you! 21:52:06 pkhuong: these are the options? 21:52:29 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-170-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:20 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-173-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:33 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:54:00 -!- Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:47 no, but history is history. Most interested parties (with the power to change things) have better things to worry about. I advocated for a change to JS some time ago, but Feeley preferred scheme (expectedly). I wonder if things'd be different now that he's working on a JS engine 21:55:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-126-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:30 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:37 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06aaf9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:06:08 are there any new places teaching CL? I mean, where it got into the curriculum in the last few years or so. 22:06:34 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 22:11:20 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:25 Have a good weekend, all. 22:13:32 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:18:54 prxq: well, I guess the Vietnamian university where beach teaches started less than two years ago AFAIR. 22:19:54 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.7.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:58 easytiger [~gerry@cpe-68-173-73-181.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:15 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:30:35 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:51 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:58 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-27-85.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:35:06 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-54-210.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:38 -!- easytiger [~gerry@cpe-68-173-73-181.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:37:15 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:01 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:03 mejja [~user@c-0eb9e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:38:25 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0119c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:18 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:14 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 22:44:26 rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:cf1c:0:21f:e2ff:fea9:b9d8] has joined #lisp 22:45:05 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 22:48:37 benny [~benny@i577A7FDC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:53 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-49-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:48:57 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@93-80-218-6.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:54:04 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 22:56:26 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:24 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:28 Anyone here familiar with cl-gtk2? If not, are there any other cross-platform libraries capable of GUI development? Seemed like GTK+ was best for Linux, Windows, and Mac OSX. 22:59:10 mcclim? 22:59:12 I hear some people are having a lot of success with Qt. 22:59:12 cl-smoke? 22:59:24 ltk? 23:00:05 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:11 How are the documentation for those listed. cl-gtk2 is very poor to say the least. 23:08:10 lichtblau tends to write stellar docs. looks pretty good 23:08:17 pislocide: if you have money for it, CAPI? :P 23:08:45 -!- mejja [~user@c-0eb9e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]] 23:09:01 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05257.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:37 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:11:14 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 23:12:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:16 p_1|backup: lol, if only I were a student, still be a chunk of change. 23:12:19 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:53 not so big when you have any real money flow, but still significant 23:13:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:14:48 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:14:55 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:18:46 that's true, but as this is a (new) hobby, i would like to find something i can work with before having to make such an investment - if it is to become such a possibility 23:22:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:23:35 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:15 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:28:17 am I reading this right, that Qt requires a license to be purchased for Windows development; or is that only for commercial development? 23:28:40 pislocide: only before 4.5 23:29:28 ok, thanks 23:29:59 rednum [~user@194.80.135.85] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:33 rpg [~rpg@209.117.47.253] has joined #lisp 23:39:39 -!- unStoppable [~unStoppab@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: .] 23:41:16 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:43:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:27 what are your perceptions on wxWidgets? 23:47:01 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:20 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:53 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp