00:00:28 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:20 00:04:45 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:51 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-127-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 00:04:52 littlebobby: Better a CL girl, relationships with scheme girls would be sterile. 00:05:09 :-) 00:05:15 haha 00:05:20 :) 00:05:32 hello lispenpeoples. 00:05:43 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:49 thy shall be greeted 00:06:09 s/thy/thou? nevermind 00:06:19 it's been a while 00:06:31 Isn't "thy" possessive? 00:06:35 a while since what? 00:06:36 ye 00:06:46 dto, since we talked like that, arrr 00:06:58 littlebobby: aha 00:07:07 i just watched The Princess Bride 00:07:16 so im in a pirate mood 00:07:35 apropos pirates, bittorrent is 10 years old 00:07:44 i was in the emotional shit hole, and then randomly my sister was flipping and we found the first few minutes of TPB playing 00:07:50 and now im in a good mood 00:08:02 it really is a fantastic movie 00:08:04 oh, preparsed tpb to be a pirate thingie 00:08:07 perhaps the best movie, perhaps 00:08:20 i think it deserves top ten 00:08:47 it sucks that robin wright penn's only other big movie was a sappy gross romance that doesn't hold a candle to TPB 00:08:49 littlebobby, oh your right never noticed that. hmmmMMMmMMMm 00:08:55 some shit with kevin costner and he dies at the end 00:09:38 som sort of crazy stormage just past south of me 00:09:43 just got darker and started raining 00:09:49 i hope it didn't come over here 00:10:30 nah i would know, it sounded like artilery bombardement (and no, it wasn't fireworks, unless they really upped the anti on that shiz) 00:11:09 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 00:11:15 i've heard random fireworks around here late at night the last few nights. 00:11:17 hi 00:11:40 dto: me too 00:11:41 please keep it at least close to on-topic. 00:11:54 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:11:57 ok 00:12:14 shouldn't have departed from the hygiene discussion 00:12:43 In all seriousness i'd probably consider attending a local gtg 00:12:49 should look into it 00:12:55 hey, i'm working on a game where i am experimenting with SSML and using Lisp to script the characters dialogue, which 00:13:04 i'm using espeak to render the SSML into audio. 00:13:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@64.134.223.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:13:12 derekv, I'm looking to the next meetup here in berli 00:13:13 n 00:13:33 If I could find a way to be there, i would 00:13:38 looking forward to it I mean 00:13:51 derekv, where are you from? 00:13:56 michigan 00:14:01 heh 00:14:04 are the Boston lisp meetings still happening? 00:14:47 I am going to strangeloop, they seem to be all about clojure this year 00:17:42 pkhuong: i apologize for my noise and profanity. to be 100% honest, I did not realize that I was in #lisp. I had been flipping through different tabs and thought I was in #tigirc where it is common to discuss movies. 00:25:00 I think i'm the only one in michigan interested in this stuff. 00:25:23 People here are real into agile, and for them, everything is second rate to java. 00:25:27 I guess they do like ruby. 00:26:53 what is agile development? 00:26:58 hsrt [~yes@93-139-76-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:27:05 i haven't had the money to buy all the zillion books i see about it at the store 00:27:44 after using lisp for about 5 years i consider lisp to be "agile" enough for me. 00:29:00 Its a bunch of ideas eg development processes that had existed prior to agile, many of which are good, nearly all of which would be an improvement to what much of the idustry is/was using like waterfall aproaches, etc, 00:29:26 that have been rolled up and rebranded as "new and revolutionary ideas" in a marketing pitch 00:29:58 which has been more succesful at penetrating the thick skulls of large corps at least than any of these ideas individually would have been 00:31:05 taking things already known for decades in smaller companies/academic research and packaging it up for consumption by e.g. ford executives 00:32:11 so yea, from a programming language perspective, its another case of people discovering revolutionary new patterns that have already existed for two decades in lisp 00:32:20 + 00:34:02 or are readily incorperated 00:34:56 I've got a slime repl that decided it was read only - does anyone know of an easy way to get it to take commands again? 00:35:38 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:35:52 so, like, test driven design... you write a functional or unit test first before implementing a peice of functionality to make the test pass 00:36:25 a slightly saner version of debugger-driven development ;) 00:37:38 its all business oriented however, eg, they like this thing called cucumber , which is a "language" called "cuke" where a business person can write a test, of the form "as a user, when i visit the page, i should be able to sign up, so that the business can make money" 00:38:09 so a non technical suit can feel like they are writing these tests to force the software to do what they want 00:38:38 but whats hilarious is, the only thing the system does is, make sure there is a functional test somewhere with the same name as the cucumber test, and run it 00:38:48 Bike [~Glossina@adsl-99-129-30-221.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:53 someone has to write the test in a real executable language 00:39:37 so there's a little bit of humor involved in agile too, I find. but, to be involved in an agile team vs its oposite, agile would be much much better 00:39:54 sorry for bad spelling. 00:40:59 I'm pretty sure you misunderstood how cucumber works. 00:41:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:41:41 pkhuong, i haven't used it. i had it demoed for me by an expert (or supposedly one), and I basically stated that as a question, and he said, yes, thats how it works. 00:41:43 The tests are written in highly-stylised english, and each step of a test must have a translation, not each test itself. 00:42:12 ahh 00:42:26 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:42:49 I kindof like the idea of forcing someone to say why, at the root of it, a feature needs to work the way it does 00:42:59 Though I'm dubious at the value in practice 00:43:21 Having had to dabble in software archaelogy, I'm all for documenting the why. 00:43:47 Right. 00:43:50 Thats true. 00:45:02 Also in a broad sweeping scope, i think there's some value to cucumber, yea 00:45:46 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:06 to be totally frank, i want to get out of the situation where that has value, eg, where you have all these stakeholders with no technical knowledge 00:46:50 my career is going well, and I'm struggling with the temptation to totally abort it. 00:47:02 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:47:07 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 00:48:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:49:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3C5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:37 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 00:49:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:49:53 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 00:49:53 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 00:51:02 (for line = (read-line in nil) while line do ... ) <- any less verbose way of doing the same? 00:51:14 I also don't want to pair program in a strict sense, but on the other hand, i've learned that if I can have some input into code I might have to later mantain, that'd be good 00:51:47 +loop 00:51:58 hsrt: if you do that a lot, you might want to factor it out into a function. 00:51:59 pkhuong yeah, just wondered if there's something built in too 00:52:54 maybe in alexandria. 00:53:53 you could probably extend iterate to support something like this 00:53:57 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 00:55:22 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:59 xristos you mean iterate loop? 00:58:37 http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/ 00:59:18 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:49 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:36 Textmode [~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-23.ozonline.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:09:37 thanks. looks very interesting and I'll probably use it later. but I'll stick with standard CL for now. what would the usual abstraction be for something like this in lisp? (read-all-lines (lines in)) macro or something? 01:10:30 (read-all-lines (line in) (print line)) even 01:12:23 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:01 or make it a function? but that would read all the lines into memory, which may not be desirable for larger files or if you need to process line as soon as you read it 01:15:37 You could also write a function that takes a function as an argument, and applies it to each line. 01:18:34 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-67-204.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:06 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-67-204.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:21:03 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:32 is it possible to create an abstract sequence for this? so that you could use it in map, doseq, etc 01:22:33 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-128-43.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:41 a sequence that doesn't read all the lines to memory first, but reads them oen by one as they're being requested 01:23:45 sure, with something like sb-sequence. 01:24:02 although, you'd have to know the number of lines ahead of time. 01:25:12 that's not really optimal. you need to number of lines in advance so that length can work? 01:25:17 +know 01:26:29 MAP might not call LENGTH in the cases that interest you. 01:26:48 But yeah, sequences in CL are fairly restricted in how they can be implemented. 01:27:18 Most of the time, map-lines and do-lines (just a tiny wrapper on top of map-lines) are good enough. 01:28:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:58 good idea. so do-lines would wrap body in lambda or something? 01:29:04 yup. 01:29:25 Plus, you need a NIL block for return to work. 01:29:45 and a tagbody if you really want to do it like the standard macros. 01:33:31 "The statements in a tagbody are evaluated in order from left to right, and their values are discarded" 01:33:41 would unwrapped ,@body not do the same? 01:33:43 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:47 pnq [~nick@ACA29B5A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:04 and I'm not really sure what NIL block is 01:34:16 and yeah I'd like it to work like standard macros 01:35:55 standard DO-* macros have a BLOCK named NIL around the iteration, so that RETURN works. They also have a TAGBODY around the loop's body, so that people can use labels and GO. 01:36:12 ah I see 01:44:54 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:45:25 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-96-87.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:45:57 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:57:25 Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F3AF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 02:02:50 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F3AF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:05:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123118 <- see any issues in either map-lines or do-lines ? 02:06:35 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:07:08 upper case "STREAM" might be easier on the eyes. DO-LINES would typically have a third optional argument to specify the return form. And, for extra points, you could allow declarations in the body of do-lines. 02:07:41 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B6DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:55 Oh, and if you really care, you could declare the mapped function dynamic-extent. 02:09:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:10 alright, thanks 02:10:12 There's also a trick to allow users to decide whether to inline map-lines or not: declaim it inline before its definition, and notinline after. On some implementations, that'll make sure the compiler saves enough metadata for a local inline declaration to work. 02:10:44 That, or implementation-specific declaration to have functions inlined only when, e.g. speed > space in the optimisation qualities. 02:11:06 -!- rgrau` [~user@67.Red-83-58-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:41 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:18 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 02:12:43 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:06 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 02:19:54 kirix [~kirix@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 02:20:15 hi. i have two questions is anyone around? 02:20:32 first is there a difference between ~a and ~A in format? I don't see any in output 02:21:21 no difference. 02:22:40 ok 02:23:44 unrelated question, I'm wondering pushnew. does it loop through all the elements to find if the element already exists? 02:24:56 *_3b* would expect it to loop through all the elements to find if the elemebt doesn't already exist 02:25:05 yeah i thought so 02:25:10 anything more efficient? 02:25:11 <_3b> if it does exist, it can stop earlier 02:25:15 <_3b> hash table? 02:26:49 <_3b> or any other data structure with sub-linear search and insert (various trees for example) 02:26:53 i meant something standard 02:27:02 <_3b> hash tables are standard 02:27:21 <_3b> if you want to determine if a value is in a list without any extra info, you are pretty much stuck with O(n) 02:28:05 had no idea hash table was in the language. thanks 02:28:08 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 02:31:36 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 02:33:36 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:24 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:42 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:41:04 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:52 (setf (gethash elem dict) t) <- add element like this. and check if it exists (gethash elem dict) ? 02:43:09 <_3b> sounds reasonable 02:43:16 it doesn't work though 02:43:29 <_3b> make sure the hash-table uses an equality test that is valid for you data 02:43:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:48:21 nice works now 02:48:31 what if I want to keep the count though 02:48:53 I guess I'll have to look in hash table twice? first to see if it exists, then to increment it 02:49:24 <_3b> (incf (gethash elem dict 0))? 02:50:11 <_3b> no existance check needed, you can supply a default for when it isn't there 02:50:18 great 02:50:48 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:04 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:53:32 i am not quite sure how that works though, gethash is a function that returns a hashed value. how come we don't just increment the returned value, without affecting the value in hash? 02:54:37 kirix: Try (macroexpand '(incf (gethash elem dict 0))) 02:55:17 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 02:55:26 <_3b> SETf is a macro that knows how to modify things like calls to GETHASH, INCF uses SETF 02:56:34 (LET* ((#:G10506 ELEM) (#:G10507 DICT) (#:G10508 0) (#:G10509 (+ (GETHASH #:G10506 #:G10507 #:G10508) 1))) (PROGN #:G10508 (SYSTEM::PUTHASH #:G10506 #:G10507 #:G10509))) 02:56:42 didnt help my confusion :) 02:56:53 <_3b> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_get_se.htm 02:56:58 Well, you can see that it doesn't just increment the retrieved value. 02:58:05 *_3b* supposes "INCF uses SETF" is probably oversimplifying, since it probably actually checks the setf expansion and does it directly if possible 02:59:27 -!- pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:48 it has to, to avoid multiple evaluation. 02:59:52 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-128-43.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:00:00 Good morning everyone! 03:00:39 it has to use setf or has to check setf expansion? 03:00:46 <_3b> hash to check the expansion 03:00:49 <_3b> *has to 03:01:08 <_3b> (the expansion might involve a call to setf anyway though) 03:02:53 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 03:03:10 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:03:10 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:03:10 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:03:38 so am i right in thinking of setf as universal assignment operator that works on a bunch of different things 03:04:14 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:04:38 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:47 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:59 <|3b|> sounds like a reasonable approximation 03:09:14 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has joined #lisp 03:19:57 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 03:33:25 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA29B5A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:35:57 I have a hash table, with string as key and int as value. I want to print the content sorted by the hash value. do i have to convert hash to list and then use sort? 03:39:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:35 *_3b* would probably do it that way, alexandria:hash-table-alist makes that sort of thing pretty convenient 03:41:40 <_3b> depending on the distribution of ints, you might also iterate through the hash table, and dump the values into an array or another hash table indexed by the ints 03:42:19 not sure what you mean 03:42:38 key is a word, value is the number of time word appears in a text file 03:43:12 so I don't think I can make assumptions to optimize, if that's what you meant. as the distribution depends entirely on the user-given text file 03:43:31 <_3b> probably not worth the effort anyway then 03:44:43 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:05 i dont have alexandria, any standard way of converting hash to a list of pairs 03:46:42 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 03:47:10 roll it yourself. 03:47:38 i'm not sure how to iterate through hash table 03:48:43 kirix: Are you looking at CLHS 18.2, which has a list of all the hash table functions and macros 03:48:47 *+? 03:49:15 ,clhs maphash 03:49:29 Or just /get/ alexandria. It's pretty darn handy once you have it. 03:49:39 clhs maphash 03:49:50 havent used it so long :( 03:51:04 you meant this? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm . that's useful thanks 03:53:23 (loop for k being the hash-keys in your-hash-table collect (cons k (gethash k your-hash-table))) 03:55:36 <_3b> LOOP can bind the hash values too, don't need an extra call to GETHASH 03:56:12 or maphash. 03:56:15 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:56:32 <_3b> yeah, syntax of maphash is much easier to remember than LOOP :) 03:57:16 <_3b> not sure if that outweighs having to build the list yourself or not though 03:57:35 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:59:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:02:11 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:17 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 04:05:44 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:09 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:49 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:56 loke [~elias@bb119-74-211-163.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:23:15 -!- psheldr [~peter@77-21-122-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:25 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.204.213] has joined #lisp 04:27:14 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:35:00 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:35:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@adsl-99-129-30-221.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:32 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 04:49:51 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:23 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633788.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:54:04 Hunden [~Hunden@e180100068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:54:29 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:55:51 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:03:04 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:04:28 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633788.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:06:05 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:23 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:11:56 Wiallim [~Lambda@222.90.241.78] has joined #lisp 05:13:26 Hello. Everyone 05:14:03 hello Wiallim 05:14:43 I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 05:15:31 gmlk [~gmlk@2001:888:10f4:0:5c84:9ed:aa74:6a5d] has joined #lisp 05:15:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:24 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:25:49 -!- gmlk [~gmlk@2001:888:10f4:0:5c84:9ed:aa74:6a5d] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:26:27 yes. This is my first use Xchat. 05:26:41 I'm a student in china. 05:27:59 I like LIsp very much. But i'm just beginning learn Lisp. 05:28:09 Wiallim: Welcome to #lisp. 05:28:18 Thanks. 05:29:32 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 05:30:48 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:33:09 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:53 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:02 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:39:01 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:39:20 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:00 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 05:41:34 Have anybody had been read SICP? 05:41:58 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.204.213] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:45:46 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:46:45 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:40 Beach,are you in there. 05:50:19 Wiallim: You'll have more luck with #scheme for SICP 05:52:57 -!- kunwon1 [~kunwon1@unaffiliated/kunwon1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:54:33 though quite a lot of people here had or plan to read it 05:55:10 kunwon1 [~kunwon1@unaffiliated/kunwon1] has joined #lisp 05:55:35 haha, 05:56:23 This is very famous book. 05:56:33 in the world. 05:57:24 jingtao [~jingtaozf@61.51.237.206] has joined #lisp 05:57:48 But I think is really hard. for me. 05:59:14 Don't give up. 05:59:20 Wiallim: Take it easy. Slowly you'll get it. 06:00:26 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@61.51.237.206] has quit [Client Quit] 06:04:13 habitat [~habitat@202.124.72.251] has joined #lisp 06:07:57 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:08:22 thanks, I'll read slowly. 06:11:50 Bye,My friends. 06:12:08 -!- Wiallim [~Lambda@222.90.241.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:12:22 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:12 -!- kunwon1 [~kunwon1@unaffiliated/kunwon1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:16:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 06:16:25 kunwon1 [~kunwon1@unaffiliated/kunwon1] has joined #lisp 06:17:29 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has joined #lisp 06:18:50 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD577087E.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:24:35 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@70-1-255-173.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:18 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-205.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:36:48 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 06:36:58 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:05 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:37 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:50:59 cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp91-122-176-127.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 06:53:51 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:38 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:59:36 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:00:45 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:05:35 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 07:18:21 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:19:53 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:12 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.103.201] has joined #lisp 07:38:10 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.103.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.193.33] has joined #lisp 07:39:30 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-205.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:39:51 liuaifu [~liuaifu@219.145.58.168] has joined #lisp 07:42:07 -!- habitat [~habitat@202.124.72.251] has quit [Quit: <3] 07:43:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:44:06 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:45:31 kvsari [~kvsari@M010232.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:45:49 the following code can send text data, how to send binary data, ex: 0x01 0x 02 0x 03 07:45:53 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :usocket) 07:45:55 (setq s (usocket:socket-connect "127.0.0.1" 8080)) 07:45:57 (format (usocket:socket-stream s) "hello, world.") 07:45:59 (force-output (usocket:socket-stream s)) 07:46:01 (read-line (usocket:socket-stream s) nil) 07:46:46 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-205.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:47:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:54 pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:54 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:56:03 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 07:56:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:58:32 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-100-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:03 sacho [~sacho@46.10.23.185] has joined #lisp 08:00:44 faust45 [~faust45@208-140-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:43 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-74-210.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:43 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:03:12 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:18 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:08 <_3b> liuaifu: you need to make a binary (or maybe bivalent) stream, and use write-byte or write-sequence 08:04:29 <_3b> you can probably make a binary stream with :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) 08:06:16 <_3b> not sure if usocket does bivalent streams (which allow both character and binary IO), if not you may be able to use flexi-streams to add that to a binary stream, or you can convert strings to binary by hand with something like babel or flexi-streams 08:06:57 ok 08:07:23 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 08:08:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:09:26 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 08:17:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:19:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@70-1-255-173.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:21:21 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:31:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:05 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:35:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.193.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:14 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 08:38:36 BlankVerse 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timeout: 255 seconds] 09:00:35 faust45 [~faust45@139-159-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:25 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:03:58 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp91-122-176-127.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:12 joachifm [~joachim@ti0150a340-1901.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:05:28 hi, everyone, please recommend some socket library. 09:05:50 I'm writing a function that takes in a string, but I want to check the string for illegal characters, what is the best practice for this? 09:06:05 cyrillos [~cyrill@176.14.72.180] has joined #lisp 09:06:10 liuaifu: I would recommend iolib or usocket 09:06:21 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:06:26 Or the socket lib of your implementation 09:06:32 usocket can't send binary data (tcp) 09:07:08 iolib is probably your best bet. 09:07:28 I try iolib, thank you 09:08:06 BrianRice` [~water@97-126-48-96.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:42 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.249.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:54 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:10:12 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-31-143-86.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:10:28 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:14:20 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:19:29 josemanuel [~josemanue@55.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:28:35 Bacteria: what constitutes an illegal character and what is your desired output? 09:29:20 zxf: I'm working with a DNA sequence, which I want to only consist of G,T,A or C. 09:29:27 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:34 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:44 I need to scan through the characters and remove illegal characters 09:30:45 try FILTER. 09:31:05 I was confused before, trying to setup a loop over the string. It kept erroring, turns out I need to put a 'do' before my statements 09:31:12 erm, REMOVE, sorry. 09:31:19 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:22 Ahh, excellent 09:31:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 09:32:23 you can probably use REMOVE-IF-NOT and a function that matches against ACGT, although I am sure there is a more efficient way. 09:33:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:33:31 depending on your actual problem, you might want to look at EVERY and handle bad sequences differently. 09:33:55 I want to expand it to be able to determine a DNA, RNA or protein sequence. So I might need to look at every character 09:35:46 http://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/misc/MPsrch/InfoIUPAC.html 09:36:15 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:48 When the list of characters start to overlap, it makes things quite tricky, and I think I'll need to employ some statistical thingy. 09:39:09 Bacteria: so, given a sequence (of characters?), you need to classify that sequence as one of DNA, RNA or PROTEIN? (Or ERROR?) 09:39:36 splittist: Indeed. 09:40:18 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:40:33 I'm starting off with something simple, identifying DNA or RNA, based on that in RNA, all T's should be U's 09:41:14 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:42:34 So if something is just A's C's and G's it could be either? 09:42:44 Yep 09:42:50 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:42:55 What do you want to do then? 09:43:33 In that instance, I'll have to assume it is DNA. Unless the user has stated otherwise. 09:44:22 if the input isn't valid, shouldn't you protest and crash rather than attempt to clean it? 09:44:26 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 09:45:11 Depends, if the user states that this string is a DNA string, it will go through and clean it 09:46:05 This is a DNA string -> "Hello Category Error World". Are you really doing me a favour by returning "C"? 09:46:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:47:03 Indeed, I see what you mean 09:47:37 well, sanitation and checking has to happen at some level 09:47:43 I guess if it cleans up a string it should provide a warning of some sort 09:48:13 or simply reject erroneous strings, rather than trying to cope with them. is there a reason you want ot handle it yourself? 09:48:23 just make it work with two bits at a time 09:48:51 A = 00, C = 01, T = 10, G = 11 09:49:00 Perhaps you could have a NA-SEQUENCE object that gets returned by CLASSIFY that contains info about how dirty the supplied sequence was and how confident you are that the classification is correct? 09:49:14 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:17 ska` [~user@ppp-110-168-199-83.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:49:34 splittist: I had intended to create a sequence object that contains other info about it. 09:49:45 Bacteria, you might want to look at how other software behaves in that regard 09:49:57 Bacteria: in any event, time to give a little thought to the protocol (set of [generic] functions) you're going to want to provide (possibly to yourself) (: 09:50:05 Most software doesn't go to this extent. 09:50:14 if you can try something out it might be easier to reason whether it's the behaviour that you want 09:50:21 bah 09:50:25 are my /me appearing? 09:50:32 no 09:50:41 zfx: I have not seen any 09:50:56 I wonder if you can use the CL type dictionary to do this :) 09:51:39 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:00 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:52:25 splittist: I'm writing this as part of a research project, in which I'm generating random DNA sequences and testing conformation to a whole bunch of rules. Such has melting temperature and sequence composition. 09:52:49 zfx: I'll look into that. 09:52:57 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:53:06 Bacteria: I was being a little esoteric there, but you can certainly give it a go! 09:53:15 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:53:49 Hahahah. I'm still a pretty big lisp noob, so I'm not sure about the correct practices. 09:55:00 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 09:56:16 well, I would suggest you just write some predicates to test for DNA, RNA, and whatever, and do it the boring way with a case analysis, at first. 09:56:42 seems like youre less interested in stripping out junk than you are in testing conformance. 10:00:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:01:11 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:17 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 10:02:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:37 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2206D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:52 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:03:06 *zfx* tests 10:03:09 strange. 10:03:37 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 10:03:46 Bacteria: what are you looking to test - you generation algorithms, your conformation rules, or the properties of the generated sequence? 10:04:55 I was going to fix up my algorithms and test them out in lisp. But I need some DNA sequence manipulation functions first. 10:05:27 Parsing the string, creating complement sequences, determining melting temperatures 10:06:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:07:03 how do you generate the dna strings anyway? just random sets of actg? 10:07:18 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:13 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 10:09:20 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:30 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 10:11:26 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12:03 Dranik [~dim@109.126.185.41] has joined #lisp 10:12:17 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:12:57 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:11 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:10 -!- andreaskostler [~user@203-206-243-65.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:54 -!- liuaifu [~liuaifu@219.145.58.168] has left #lisp 10:24:01 anvandare: I generated the strings at random, usually generate 1 or 10 million. Then just filter them. 10:24:30 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:30:02 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:04 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 10:30:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 10:34:32 -!- Dranik [~dim@109.126.185.41] has left #lisp 10:34:51 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:57 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:34 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:36:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.230.63] has joined #lisp 10:37:24 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 10:38:46 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:45:23 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:33 VircA}mtem{ [~vcwfbta@178.52.29.16] has joined #lisp 10:46:03 hello 10:46:15 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.230.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:24 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 10:48:00 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.81.93] has joined #lisp 10:48:10 hello 10:48:17 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:48:26 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 10:48:52 XXXyyy 10:49:13 xxxyyy 10:49:32 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 10:49:40 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:40 runser 10:50:08 speak arabic 10:50:15 VircA}mtem{: ? 10:51:13   10:51:44 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:07 ... 10:52:40 -!- Textmode [~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-23.ozonline.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:52:43    10:53:30 VircA}mtem{: I don't think anyone understands what you. 10:53:44 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-161-151.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:54:18 i need name chaneel arabic 10:56:12 daniel__1 [~daniel@p50829849.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:19 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 10:57:41 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AA3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57:48 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC8301.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:12 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC8989.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:01:16 VircA}mtem{, try #arabic or maybe even #virca 11:02:33 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 11:03:21 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:04:35 next virca 11:09:37 -!- r11t_ is now known as r11t 11:10:07 ivan4th [~ivan4th@213.141.132.14] has joined #lisp 11:11:04 -!- r11t [~r11t@ec2-50-18-44-29.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 11:11:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.81.93] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:14:03 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.107.36] has joined #lisp 11:14:50 r11t [~r11t@ec2-50-18-44-29.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:33 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:20:03 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:01 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 11:25:06 pnq [~nick@ACA360EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:11 hall68k [~hal9k@207-118-30-235.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:13 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-132-222.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:18 pnq 11:26:14 What does "pnq" mean? 11:26:28 I've got a quick question, are 'labels' and 'lambda' the same thing? 11:26:34 No. 11:26:44 -!- loke [~elias@bb119-74-211-163.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:26:51 loke [~elias@bb121-6-175-224.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:26:59 -!- hall68k [~hal9k@207-118-30-235.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:27:41 hargettp: see "Metacircular Semantics for Common Lisp Special Forms" for the relationships between labels and lambda. 11:28:19 ? :) 11:28:28 hall68k left. 11:29:11 ah...was gonna say I don't do Metacircular anything before my first cup of coffee....just woke up :) 11:29:32 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:34 Another victim of mindless auto-completion. 11:34:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:35:21 lol hargettp 11:37:27 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@213.141.132.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:39:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.107.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:41 Tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has joined #lisp 11:41:34 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 11:41:39 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:56 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 11:42:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:43:24 -!- VircA}mtem{ [~vcwfbta@178.52.29.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:45 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.23.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:45:22 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:46:24 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:47:00 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:47:54 silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC233B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:12 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180100068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:14 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180100068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:48:29 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:48:59 Zhivago: hence the danger of laconic answers: the poor chap may leave before getting the right answer. 11:49:18 He got the right answer. :) 11:49:25 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@55.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 11:49:35 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC2206D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:49:42 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:55 For some IQ level, yes. (And I could have given exactly the same answer). 11:50:17 And if you had read his question properly, you might have. 11:50:42 People don't know when to use quotes. 11:54:23 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA360EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:55:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:47 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 11:55:58 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 11:57:25 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:58:18 pnq [~nick@ACA360EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58:57 -!- joachifm [~joachim@ti0150a340-1901.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:49 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:00:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:00:51 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 12:02:22 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:17 what is the equivalent of multiple arguments in lisp as compared to scheme's (define foo 1st-arg . rest-args) ? 12:03:34 &rest 12:04:24 '&' symbol adds multiple arguments into a list of arguments? 12:04:31 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 12:04:35 No. 12:06:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:08:20 anything after &rest is an optional argument 12:08:52 Tippenein: (defun foo (1st-arg &rest rest-args) ...) 12:09:08 thank you! 12:09:36 Tippenein: &rest is known as a "lambda list keyword". 12:10:11 Tippenein: Why do you ask? Do you already know Scheme and want to learn Common Lisp? 12:10:37 I've used scheme for much more than lisp yes 12:12:03 Tippenein: What are you planning to use Common Lisp for? 12:12:33 I was just going through sicp with lisp instead of scheme 12:13:01 Tippenein: have a look at http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ 12:13:07 -!- faust45 [~faust45@139-159-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: faust45] 12:13:53 pjb: amazing, thanks. 12:14:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.107.36] has joined #lisp 12:16:37 Tippenein, I'm just reading the chapter on functions in "practical common lisp" http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/functions.html -- &optional, &rest and &key can trip you up a bit, so you might give it a read 12:16:47 loke_ [~elias@bb116-14-205-201.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:16:47 also the book is a very fine read so far 12:17:19 -!- loke [~elias@bb121-6-175-224.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:39 littlebobby: alright, thanks. 12:24:02 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 12:26:13 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:26:23 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-100-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:29:18 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-3-104.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:29:37 hi all 12:30:27 im optimizing an a* alg., and the profiler shows up an unknown function, its on the top of the list 12:30:51 what can i do to determine what that is? (sbcl, sb-sprof) 12:31:33 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.1.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:32:18 (im guessing its has to do with aref) 12:32:23 -s 12:34:54 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 12:35:25 <_8david> use the call graph to find out which the calling functions are 12:35:46 <_8david> disassemble the callers to see where they spend their time 12:35:56 hi 12:36:07 sorry, im not that proficient with sprof 12:36:17 how can i tell it to show the graph? 12:36:53 do i have to change the report options? 12:36:58 <_8david> In the version of SBCL I'm running, the upper part 12:37:21 <_8david> of sb-prof:report's output is the call graph, and the lower part the flat profile. 12:37:51 <_8david> The call graph table includes information on callers and callees. 12:37:52 -!- silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC233B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.107.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:12 i had the :flat option 12:38:23 now i see in the man. theres a :call-graph 12:39:20 alternatively slime-sprof can do view-source / disassemble on anonymous functions 12:39:28 ah, ok :report :graph 12:39:54 ill check the tree now 12:43:30 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-236-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:45:36 ah, sorry before i said unknown function, but in fact it says its an unknown component 12:45:41 i dont know if this help 12:45:43 s 12:46:42 and in the call graph, it appears many times on the top, like this: "Unknown component: #x100549CF10" [1] 12:48:40 would you take a look at this? http://pastebin.com/4cXsuSdZ 12:48:46 im kind of lost 12:49:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.72.230] has joined #lisp 12:50:53 <_8david> mcstar: I'd say that's a deficiency in sb-sprof; it fails to report a useful function name for anonymous LAMBDAs. 12:51:13 ah, it disappeared 12:51:25 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.27.10] has joined #lisp 12:51:48 i had a loop repeat 5000, with my code in a (time 12:51:53 and i was profiling that 12:52:12 without the time, it doesnt show up anymore 12:53:08 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 12:53:26 _8david: jsnell thanks guys 12:53:27 <_8david> still less useful than it could be. Can you open a launchpad ticket? 12:53:44 never done that 12:53:47 nortalion [nortimer@home.hadiko.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:51 but time is a macro isnt it? 12:53:58 -!- nortalion [nortimer@home.hadiko.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 12:54:03 i dont know how sbprof reacts to macros 12:54:53 i mean are you sure it was supposed to give more information, to lead me to (time ? 12:54:59 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:56:50 <_8david> mcstar: I think it should show your function (which uses time) 12:57:15 urandom__ [~user@p548A420C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:19 silenius [~silenus@p4FC233B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:24 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:04:23 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:04:52 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.72.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:26 ska`` [~user@ppp-115-87-203-181.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:06:46 <_8david> mcstar: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123123 13:08:46 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-110-168-199-83.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:08:51 ah, im supposed to patch my file with this? 13:08:55 thanks 13:10:03 did you just rewrite that part in the official sbcl source? 13:19:24 <_8david> No, but I've opened a lp entry so that it won't get lost. 13:20:04 -!- kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:20:12 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.27.10] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:20:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.230.36] has joined #lisp 13:21:51 <_8david> I'll need to look into making sprof safe for the pseudo-atomic removal; I'll have a chance to actually test the above change then. 13:23:02 kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:21 _8david: i put those lines in my sb-sprof.lisp 13:24:37 compile-file-ed it as root 13:24:49 but the profiler output is the same 13:25:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA360EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:25:00 <_8david> did you reload the fasl? 13:25:07 i quit sbcl 13:25:17 so, yes i guess i reloaded 13:25:33 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:26:22 How do you make a copy of a non-vector array? 13:26:35 <_8david> try a straight (load (compile-file ".../sb-sprof.lisp")) to make certain it's the right fasl? It's hotpatchable without a restart, and you can put the .lisp anywhere you can write to. 13:27:01 <_8david> zort-: alexandria:copy-array 13:27:12 eh 13:27:48 "Unnamed LAMBDA in SB-SPROF:WITH-PROFILING (:REPORT :GRAPH :LOOP NIL) #x1002BEB2B0" 13:27:55 if i load it it works 13:28:03 well, thank you, the rest ill figure it out 13:29:05 <_8david> zort-: that's assuming you have alexandria. If not, quicklisp can install it for you. 13:35:23 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-161-151.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:13 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7578a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:07 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 13:46:48 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.152.244] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:47:54 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:48:24 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:03 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:50:01 Bike [~Glossina@adsl-99-129-30-182.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:44 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 13:51:31 samebcha1e [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:40 -!- samebcha1e [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has left #lisp 13:56:37 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 14:02:18 nha [~prefect@183-32.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:02:56 _8david: it seems my a* runs faster than a buddy's implementation in cpp :) 14:03:08 almost a factor of 2 14:04:55 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.149] has joined #lisp 14:04:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.149] has quit [Changing host] 14:04:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:05:40 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:52 faust45 [~faust45@139-159-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:07:37 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9CE67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:43 mcstar: any benefits are due to lisp; any deficits are due to you (: 14:13:10 -!- Tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.18/20110614230723]] 14:13:14 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:17 tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.14] has joined #lisp 14:19:15 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.230.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:22:58 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:00 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9CE67.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:25:24 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.127.235] has joined #lisp 14:26:03 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:07 pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:51 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:22 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:52 is there any version of LISP that'll let you disassemble system functions like cons? 14:35:33 You could look through the source of an open-source implementation. 14:35:41 I've been doing a bit of that 14:36:06 I wonder what's the smallest Turing-complete LISP-esque 14:36:12 (smallest source/binary wise) 14:36:46 taiyal: lambda 14:37:10 taiyal: Just typing M-. after cons should bring you to the source of cons in your implementation. 14:37:33 Of course, in sbcl, it's just (defun cons (a d) (cons a d)), which is rather useless for your purpose. I'd avise you to use ccl instead. 14:38:11 what do you mean by "M-"? can you give me an example line? 14:38:16 M-. 14:38:23 You type Meta and dot. 14:38:24 oh, that's meta-period? 14:38:29 okay 14:38:47 btw I use CLISP 14:38:47 In a well installed, well configured system. 14:38:52 Good too. 14:39:01 But the sources of the low level stuff is is C... 14:39:17 even getting the Lisp VM assembly for some system things would be nice 14:39:30 when I type something like (disassemble zerop) it just returns NIL 14:39:47 oh you know what 14:39:57 I need to learn Emacs too, thanks for reminding me (with the Meta stuff) 14:40:22 disassemble always return NIL. 14:40:53 well yes but it'll print NIL where the disassembly would go 14:40:58 and then print another NIL for the return 14:40:59 iirc 14:41:02 But (disassemble 'zerop) prints 0x00007f0ab822704e in waitpid () from /lib/libc.so.6 in my clisp. 14:41:19 which of course is not helpful. 14:47:15 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:48:18 typing M-. produces a special character for me 14:48:23 although that might be Xterm's fault 14:49:10 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 14:52:05 taiyal: bind the key you want to slime-edit-definition 14:52:51 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:53:43 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:53:47 pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:36 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC233B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@adsl-99-129-30-182.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:04 carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.147] has joined #lisp 14:56:04 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:11 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:15 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:58:45 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:28 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:30 iwillig [~iwillig@109.sub-75-194-117.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:59 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 15:06:59 zfx [~zfx@host81-158-150-44.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:59 -!- zfx [~zfx@host81-158-150-44.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:06:59 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 15:07:00 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:37 pjb: i was wondering before: what does that cons definition actually mean? 15:08:29 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:48 mcstar: it means that it defines a lisp function named CONS, whose implementation is provided by the compiler, which open codes (inline) the real cons. 15:10:08 Most of the time, when you write (cons a b) with this compiler, it doesn't call that function. 15:10:24 It is used for things like: (mapcar 'cons '(1 2) '(3 4)) 15:10:26 i can disassemble it though 15:10:32 Of course. 15:10:44 i know cons pretty well, i just wrote a priority heap 15:11:14 so, i read before that sbcl cannot bootstrap itself 15:11:20 Thing about it, it's about inline vs. not inline! 15:11:40 mcstar: this is only because, for no valid reason, they wrote the garbage collector in C. 15:11:45 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:05 mcstar: we might not share the same definition of bootstrap then. 15:12:16 There's no technical reason preventing you to write a lisp implementation in 100% lisp sources. 15:12:21 I think I hear pjb volunteering to rewrite it in CL. 15:12:23 so is the actual cons written in lisp or in c? 15:12:35 Zhivago: yes, eventually. 15:12:44 mcstar: Mu. 15:12:47 mcstar: it's written in lisp that outputs machine code. 15:12:54 mcstar: the actual cons is generated in binary from a lisp program. 15:13:18 ok, but then the source must be in somewhere among the sourcefiles 15:13:30 mcstar: sure, in the sources of the compiler. 15:13:38 aham 15:13:42 Yes. But it's generated very early on, so no source location. 15:13:46 so those arent installed, ok 15:14:01 Yes, the sources of the compiler are installed too. 15:14:28 ah, only that no source (debug) information remained 15:14:38 That's not the point! 15:14:45 Thing about it, it's about inline vs. not inline! 15:14:48 Think about it, it's about inline vs. not inline! 15:15:00 calm down 15:15:10 im just a noobie 15:15:21 It's a mix of a definition in src/compiler/generic/objdef.lisp, src/compiler/generic/vm-ir2tran.lisp for code to convert these definitions to code, and src/compiler/$ARCH/cell.lisp for SET-SLOT and src/compiler/$ARCH/alloc.lisp for allocation sequences. 15:15:28 mcstar: In that case, the useful answer is 'magic'. 15:15:41 very useful 15:15:50 i didnt say i was stupid, only newbie 15:16:00 It will stop you wasting time on things that you can't understand yet. 15:16:09 strictly speaking, nobody ever wrote a definition for CONS. 15:16:15 this is hardly a waste of time 15:16:37 Indeed, eventually, this should make you understand what a compiler is. 15:16:45 We only have a description of the layout of a cons, and then data driven code to output the rest, and a few generic instruction sequences to allocate and mutate objects. 15:17:03 mcstar: notably, a compiler is not a program that takes subroutines and concatenate them. 15:17:18 ok, so cons is always inlined, and a function never generated from those instructions, named cons in lisp 15:17:20 If that was the case, then there would be a cons subroutine somewhere to be copied inline. 15:17:20 pjb: depends on the compiler. 15:17:38 mcstar: sure, sometimes, a function is generated, when it's not inlined away. 15:17:50 That's why there's this (defun cons (a d) (cons a d)) definition. 15:18:06 ok, before that 15:18:15 thx,. i guess i understand 15:18:28 But otherwise, this function definition is not use when you call cons directly. 15:19:36 mcstar: so it doesn't copy subroutines, because it has a higher level notion of the semantics of cons, and use it to generate and optimize the code. So it could use different instructions and different registers each time it generates cons. 15:19:49 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 15:20:31 yeah, depending on weather it can obey (declare or not? 15:21:18 This is orthogonal. 15:21:27 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:21:48 but declare tries to change this process, right? 15:21:50 But IIRC, calls to functions in CL can always be opencoded by the compiler, you cannot use declare on them. 15:21:55 Wiallim [~Lambda@1.80.35.226] has joined #lisp 15:22:13 wtf, i just reinstalled tzdata for lenny from lenny-volatile 15:22:26 and my sbcl-binary now works in qemu 15:22:31 pjb: can you tell me what does open-coded means? i read it a couple of times today 15:22:46 and shows the correct package names with (list-all-packages) 15:23:16 i hope it's not something due to cache/swap or so 15:24:40 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb116-14-205-201.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:22 mcstar: basically, open-coded = inline 15:25:46 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:25:56 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A420C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:26 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A420C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:41 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:27:50 pjb: i dont want to bother you, but im interested in the way you would write a function which inserts an element into a list, which is otherwise always sorted(smaller first) 15:28:40 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:29:10 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:12 -!- finnrobi [finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:29:41 qebab [finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 15:29:42 And you want to insert it in order? 15:29:44 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:01 yes, of course 15:30:13 so that the list stays sorted 15:30:16 And do you want a destructive function or a non-destructive one? 15:30:19 and speed matters 15:30:36 i dont want to unnecessarily cons 15:30:38 so destructive 15:30:48 with one pass over the list 15:31:10 i mean, i have one, im just curious how an experienced lisper would write it 15:32:31 (defun insert (item list &key (lessp (function <))) (if list (loop for cell = (cons nil list) then (cdr cell) while (funcall lessp item (cadr cell) finally (push item cell) (return list)) (list item)))) 15:32:57 iwillig_ [~iwillig@163.sub-75-197-223.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:50 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:34:52 + while cell 15:35:03 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@109.sub-75-194-117.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:20 needs a ) in front of finally 15:35:22 ? 15:35:40 interestingly, if you keep the cons cells in an array (unsorted, just so that you can have random access to the cons cells), you can do better. 15:35:48 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:36:04 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:36:09 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:36:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:36:09 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:36:19 Yes. 15:36:28 its very similar to what ive written 15:36:33 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has joined #lisp 15:36:43 pkhuong: hardly. You have to copy the elements. With a list you don't have to. 15:37:23 pjb: huh? What are you talking about? 15:37:34 this is mine: http://pastebin.com/byzEb7i3 15:37:45 Now, it depends on the complexity of < compared to moving the elements, of course, but otherwise the dichotomy is not justified. 15:38:01 I said keep *the cons cells* in an array. 15:38:14 i changed my (cons nil list) to if's 15:38:34 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:10 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:39:13 pkhuong: i would have to check all the elements every time i would add an element 15:39:25 pkhuong: same problem, you still have to update the array when you insert a new cons cell. 15:39:38 pjb: yes. Put it at the end. 15:39:46 I also said *unsorted*. 15:40:06 If the array is unsorted, how can it help you finding the cell to update? 15:40:09 The only point is that you need random (literally) access to the list. 15:40:32 that's what makes the trick interesting. 15:40:47 (unless you're thinking about a stockastic algorithm). 15:40:58 it's not stochastic, but it is randomised. 15:41:06 the problem: large list, which i sometimes update with new elements, find always the smallest one with regard to a test function 15:41:17 mcstar: why is that a list? 15:41:25 what else? 15:41:32 a priority queue. 15:41:39 basically this is it 15:41:57 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 15:42:01 it's a bad priority queue. 15:42:29 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:33 ok, so what is a good priority queue? 15:42:54 heaps are the popular choice. 15:43:20 maybe i miss somethins, but i think this is it 15:43:44 you are missing something. 15:44:22 how else can you store a priority queue if not in a list? 15:44:32 In a heap? 15:45:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_queue 15:47:49 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:48:27 why didnt you say so? i mean yea, trees, sure, but its a good for storing them in a linear list 15:48:35 I did say so ... 15:48:41 Repeatedly. 15:48:58 And, no. Storing them in a linear list is the stupidest way to make a priority queue. 15:49:16 you dont see my point 15:49:18 Although if you really tried hard you could probably do worse. 15:49:21 now i can improve on this 15:49:26 Get rid of the list. 15:49:27 but it was good for a first write 15:49:32 Ok, good. 15:49:36 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:50:36 but, i were to implement a heap, binary heap or whatever basically that would also be a list, i mean you dont suggest using vectors.... 15:50:41 if i* 15:51:25 No, it wouldn't basically be a list. 15:51:37 You might make it out of cons blocks, but that's irrelevant. 15:51:44 Do you know what an ADT is? 15:51:45 well, nested list 15:52:16 -!- faust45 [~faust45@139-159-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: faust45] 15:52:23 Do you think that searching a balanced binary tree is like searching a linear list? 15:52:25 data which you dont see, but have accessors? 15:52:30 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:52:32 Trystam [~Tristam@72.226.124.205] has joined #lisp 15:52:36 ermm 15:52:40 no 15:52:49 maaan, how can you misunderstand me soo much 15:52:56 Why not? A balanced binary tree can be seen as a list of lists, after all ... 15:53:06 well, thats what i mean 15:53:17 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 So, isn't it 'basically a list'? Or is it 'completely different'? 15:53:37 but of course searching is quite different if the underlying data has some structure 15:53:54 All operations are quite different if the structure is different. 15:54:13 Think about those operations, and don't worry so much about the bricks you build it out of. 15:54:16 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:54:34 _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:55:05 -!- _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:31 _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:36 Inode [~inode@109.169.40.195] has joined #lisp 16:00:42 -!- _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:54 i will have to worry about the brick until i finish my "bulding" 16:03:23 loke [~elias@bb116-14-205-201.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:04:17 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:44 mcspiff [~user@142.68.151.62] has joined #lisp 16:05:46 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:06:29 _iori_ [~iori@EM111-188-65-190.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:07:44 morning/afternoon everyone. I'm trying to get mcclim working under SBCL and OS X 10.6.x. I'm getting an error that appears to be related to CLX. Was wondering if anyone had experienced this before. Error message is "Name service error in "gethostbyname": 1 (Unknown host)". 16:07:50 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:22 looks like its happening in the call to xlib::open-display 16:08:48 it's an issue with OS X's magic port sniffing X11, iirc. 16:08:50 how do you access the display ? 16:08:53 with :0 ? 16:09:22 pkhuong: ah that makes a certain amount of sense 16:09:52 homie: Just using defaults so I'd assume :0 16:10:15 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:29 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:11:44 maybe setting DISPLAY to include your loopback ip prior to the ":" will help 16:12:07 as in the env. var, before exec'ing sbcl 16:12:18 pdenno [~pdenno@129.6.72.17] has joined #lisp 16:12:46 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 16:12:47 Inode: I'll give that a shot, just "127.0.0.1:0"? 16:12:51 yes 16:13:25 you may also need to use "xhost +127.0.0.1" .. depending on how paranoid your X config is 16:15:16 connection refused, so I take it I do need to run xhost... 16:15:30 Xserver is running 16:17:29 I can also launch xterm from the cli so it seems to be working... still getting connection refused from CLX 16:18:08 pnq [~nick@ACA356B8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:23 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-164-70.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:01 -!- Wiallim [~Lambda@1.80.35.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:26 -!- ska`` [~user@ppp-115-87-203-181.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:25:50 got it, thanks folks 16:27:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:21 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:27:24 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:29:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:29:55 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:01 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.151.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:57 Zhivago: do you know a good heap implementation, or would you recommend me writing it for myself? 16:35:41 -!- _iori_ [~iori@EM111-188-65-190.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:15 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-3-104.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:37:39 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-3-104.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:39:40 _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:11 -!- _iori_ [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:26 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 16:42:42 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:59 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:43:42 ASau [~user@95-28-41-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:44:50 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:43 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:48:18 Is there some way to specify how read-line terminates lines? 16:50:28 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:52:12 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:56 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:54:48 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA356B8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:55:30 drdo: you can usually specify a stream's external format upon creation 16:56:10 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:45 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 16:56:50 pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:57:15 drdo: see stream-external-format 16:57:40 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:40 -!- sykopomp` [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:40 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:59:18 drdo: there's no standard way to do it. All implementation dependant. 16:59:34 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:01 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:03 drdo: One thing you could consider, if you cannot trust your implementation to generate a valid text file, is to generate a binary file instead, and write yourself whatever needs to be written for a new line. 17:00:27 But then, binary file I/O is even less specified. 17:00:45 (What will (unsigned-byte 8) do on a 36-bit host?) 17:01:21 (What will (unsigned-byte 9) do, when writing on a 5-channel punch tape?) 17:03:51 pjb: can you recommend a heap implementation? 17:05:12 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:05:17 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 17:05:33 I really just need to read IMAP replies 17:08:07 mcstar: I don't have any heap implementation to recommend. But I recently wrote a priority-queue: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123127 (not yet on gitorious). 17:09:18 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:09:50 pjb: i see, its like github 17:10:23 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:06 ok, thx i give it a try 17:13:36 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:14:06 amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:06 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-111-11.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:15:01 p0a [~user@athedsl-98909.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:15:14 pnq [~nick@ACA24714.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:18 Hello which function should I use to replace a list (a b c) with (1 2 3)? 17:15:26 (where the rules are (a -> 1) etc) 17:16:06 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:49 guys! 17:16:55 (defun f (x) (if (equal x '(a b c)) '(1 2 3) x)) 17:17:05 :) 17:17:40 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:42 (setf a 1 b 2 c 3) (list a b c) 17:18:10 that's okay, anything better? 17:18:21 p0a: think about it. You will find something. 17:18:32 p0a: We can't guess what you are trying to do 17:18:37 I can write it myself, but I remember there was a function for this 17:18:38 p0a: first, notice the fun we have with your "rules". You should make them more explicit. 17:19:13 I think they're quite explicit... (list (a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3)) 17:19:18 There are several things you can use. sublis is one. 17:19:29 But sublis doesn't work on a list, it works on a tree. 17:19:42 p0a: if you think so, then pjb's first reply is what you want 17:19:53 If you have a list, you may want to use mapcar and assoc, things like that. 17:20:05 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:22 SUBLIS, thanks 17:20:57 (mapcar (lambda (x) (cdr (assoc x assoc-list))) '(a b c)) 17:20:59 sublis will fail on lists such as (a (a little pig) b c) producing (1 (1 little pig) 2 3) instead of (1 (a little pig) 2 3). 17:21:14 mcstar: what about my example? 17:21:17 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 17:21:23 sry, reading up 17:23:44 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:34 and I suppose (take '(1 2 3 4) 3)) ==> ((1 2 3) (2 3 4)) is to be implemented by me? 17:25:09 Probably. 17:25:26 id use one less paren 17:29:30 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:29:34 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:49 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:00 how about something like LAST but from the beginning 17:31:07 ie (f '(1 2 3 4) 2) ==> (1 2) 17:32:40 p0a: That's called butlast 17:32:41 <_3b> BUTLAST or SUBSEQ 17:32:51 <_3b> depending on which way you counted that 2 17:36:32 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:06 SUBSEQ! thanks 17:37:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-132-222.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:38:01 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:47 watch out with subseq, as far as i know it can be slow, correct me if im wrong 17:39:09 i mean usually the thing you want with subseq can be done faster 17:39:36 <_3b> it probably makes a copy, but isn't otherwise slow 17:40:20 <_3b> actually, always makes a copy 17:40:27 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 17:40:27 you have to know the indices, where you want to cut, so first you have to travel the list 17:40:40 and then tell subseq to do the same thing 17:40:59 <_3b> still O(n), but yeah, in that case you could do a bit better 17:41:23 yeah, i didnt mean the function itself is slow.. 17:42:20 pjb: how come your pq isnt in packaged? 17:42:36 what would you like me to call the package im putting it in? 17:43:54 amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:47:23 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:49:22 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-132-222.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:58 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:08 -!- iwillig_ [~iwillig@163.sub-75-197-223.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:48 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.127.235] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:56:23 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:46 mcstar, I think you can "silence" the error from incorrect indices and even make subseq return nil for instance. Never actually meddled with CLs error system 17:58:56 For anyone interested, I implemented Rule 30, http://paste.lisp.org/display/123128 17:59:00 amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_30 17:59:06 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:10 thanks for the help 17:59:12 -!- p0a [~user@athedsl-98909.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:00:36 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:01:09 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:27 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:02:43 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-132-222.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:05:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:40 hi 18:07:55 any gsll user here? 18:08:10 I need hints on sparse matrix handling 18:08:31 unfortunately gsll doesn't use sparse matrix at all :( 18:10:46 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7578a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:33 mcstar: it's not finished/released yet. 18:12:27 I started to research the literature about heaps and so on, and got side tracked. 18:12:39 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12:48 i put it in pjb-pqueue, and gave it a .asd 18:12:52 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633788.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:12:56 if you dont mind :) 18:13:03 No problem. 18:13:17 It's GPL, you can do whatever you want with it :-) 18:13:37 (Apart distributing binaries without the sources). 18:14:44 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-188.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:14:51 *nikodemus* plugs pileup -- it's a thread-safe and pretty efficient priority queue 18:15:33 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:45 its not in quicklisp 18:15:58 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:16:05 i just saw there's a binomial-heap and cl-heap in quicklisp 18:17:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:00 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:18:28 it is 18:18:29 (ql:system-apropos "pileup") 18:18:43 it just doesn't have "heap" in its name 18:20:17 rippa [~rippa@93-181-222-217.adsl.yaroslavl.ru] has joined #lisp 18:20:22 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:21:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-188.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:47 BgStallion [~BgStallio@g230093093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:53 Hello :) 18:22:02 I have a LISP-releated question 18:22:16 and it is as follows: why is it that sometimes when I use cons there's a dot between the elements? 18:22:55 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:57 BgStallion: Do you know what a cons is? 18:23:39 construct list 18:23:49 BgStallion: There's always a dot. How about that. 18:23:52 well no 18:23:59 A cons is just a pair 18:24:14 (cons 1 2) => (1 . 2) 18:24:23 ohh 18:24:33 This is just a pair with 1 and 2 18:24:38 but 18:24:39 if I have 18:24:49 (cons 'a '(b c)) = (a b c) 18:25:16 (a . (b . (c . nil))) 18:25:22 exactly 18:25:25 but it's the same thing 18:25:30 that's just a convention for printing/reading 18:25:32 just in different notation 18:25:33 yes 18:25:55 but my program comes to a point where it has: (cadr (A B)) 18:26:03 BgStallion: (cons 'a '(b c)) creates a cons where the first element points to 'a and the second points to '(a b) 18:26:18 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-111-11.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:26:36 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:07 BgStallion: have a go at this book http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 18:27:24 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:27:34 thanks 18:27:36 -!- BgStallion [~BgStallio@g230093093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 18:27:38 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:53 noogenesis [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:16 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:33:17 Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:36 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:17 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has quit [Quit: be back later] 18:37:57 -!- Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39:04 amb007 [~a_bakic@144.4.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:09 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.19] has joined #lisp 18:46:28 realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:54 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47:28 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@pC19F3533.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:12 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:49:07 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:02 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 18:50:08 HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:18 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:53:53 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-3-104.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 18:54:11 me345 [~me345@75.15.224.14] has joined #lisp 18:54:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:59:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:18 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.19] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:02:23 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:54 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:04:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:06:22 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:07 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:08:57 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-63-169.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:09:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:26 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:17:38 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:27 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-206-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:32 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:34:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:13 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 19:34:19 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:34:30 benny` [~benny@i577A2965.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:08 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:35:54 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7DF2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:48 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:39:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:02 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:29 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:43:32 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-148-150.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:43:55 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 19:45:01 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:28 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:46:19 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has left #lisp 19:53:39 Textmode [~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-23.ozonline.com.au] has joined #lisp 19:53:52 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:59:48 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:01:04 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:30 (let ((foo #'some-function)) (setf (foo ..) 10)) gives me (setf funcall) is only defined for functions of the form #'symbol. any way to get indirect access to function working with setf? 20:01:46 (let ((foo #'some-function)) (setf (funcall foo ..) 10)) even 20:04:21 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:03 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:06:08 (flet (((setf foo) (new-value other-arguments) ...)) (setf (foo args) 10)) 20:07:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:07:32 shaggy-: perhaps you should think about the difference between a reader and a writer. 20:08:12 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:09:01 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:09:05 I wanted to do this to avoid code duplication, not sure it's worth it if I have to set both the get and set functions 20:09:46 let of flet don't set anything, they establish bindings. 20:10:37 regardless, it's uglier than i expected it to be 20:11:21 Well, if you came with a clearer idea of what you want to do... 20:11:36 I wanted to do this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123132 20:11:52 but now I think I'll just duplicate code instead 20:12:24 What if the node is equal to the item? 20:12:27 francogrex [~user@109.130.212.40] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 then I (setf (node-item node) item) 20:13:10 No. 20:13:23 In that case next-node is bound to nil and funcall next-node breaks. 20:13:48 (if (null next-node) (setf (node-item node) item) 20:13:56 Ah, sorry, you tested for next-node. You're confusing me. 20:14:29 Ok, so a writer, is a function whose first argument is the new value. 20:14:46 (setf (foo x y z) v) <=> (funcall '(setf foo) v x y z) 20:15:06 or (funcall (function (setf foo)) v x y z) ; in lexical scopes. 20:16:21 So you can write: (funcall (cond (... (function (setf node-left))) (... (function (setf node-right))) (t (lambda (&rest ignore) (first ignore)))) (make-node ...) node) 20:17:26 Your indentation is confusing too, are you sure you're using emacs? 20:17:34 yes. emacs + slime 20:17:45 and erc? 20:17:49 no 20:18:01 Ah, that's why spaces are missing in the paste. 20:19:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:32 so I have to duplicate cond block when calling setf? if I got it right. not sure that's any better than just having separate node-left and node-right blocks 20:24:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:25:20 shaggy-: since you need both the reader and the writer, you could either use the symbol: (if (null (funcall accessor node)) (funcall (list 'seft accessor) new-value node) ...) or write: (multiple-value-bind (reader writer) (cond ... (values (function node-left) (function (setf node-left))) ...) (if (null (funcall reader node)) (funcall writer new-value node) ...)) 20:25:35 (funcall '(setf car) (cons 1 2) 42) 20:27:15 Well, it would work if there was a (setf car)... (for standard accessors, there are not necessarily a (setf xyz) function). 20:27:27 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:45 The multiple-value-bind version has the advantage you can use a reader and a writer that are not even accessors (just functions with the right protocol). 20:30:39 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7578a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:07 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 20:35:01 -!- tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.14] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 20:35:59 ok. (funcall '(setf car) (cons 1 2) 42) as you said didn't work here. is this guaranteed to work with node being a struct containing left element (so node-left is beign being auto-generated on struct definition) 20:36:35 -!- rippa [~rippa@93-181-222-217.adsl.yaroslavl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:36:45 -!- pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:08 shaggy-: '(setf car) will never work. #'(setf car) might. 20:37:13 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:23 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-63-169.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:38:05 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-63-169.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:39:08 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:25 faust45 [~faust45@139-159-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 and the new value should be the first argument: (funcall '(setf xyz-a) 42 (make-xyz :a 1 :b 2)) 20:46:56 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-28-145.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:49:26 -!- me345 [~me345@75.15.224.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:34 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 20:51:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:40 pjb, erc the irc-client? what does that have to do with missing spaces in a paste? I'm confused 20:55:07 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-124-169.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 20:59:11 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:59:50 pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:02:39 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:03:11 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 21:06:31 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:37 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:16:35 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.212.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:44 francogrex [~user@109.130.212.40] has joined #lisp 21:18:58 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 21:20:06 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:22:39 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.19] has joined #lisp 21:22:52 Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-206-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:40 -!- faust45 [~faust45@139-159-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: faust45] 21:25:48 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:11 Unsupported coding system: "utf-8-unix" 21:32:26 SLIME and ECL 21:32:38 Requesting tips! 21:33:22 -!- pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:33:45 -!- CrazyEddy [~cocainoma@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:10 hi 21:36:53 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:37:16 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:38:12 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:05 I had to modify my program last night :) 21:41:13 HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:52 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-3-104.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:42:26 pjb: i tried yours, pileup, cl-heap 21:42:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:42:55 unfortunately all were slower by factors than my simple list for the queue sizes im using 21:44:27 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:50 I found my prog faster than matlab rubbish :) 21:47:04 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:18 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:47:52 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:53:36 -!- puchacz 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has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:33 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 22:29:47 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:55 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:38:00 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 22:38:50 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 22:38:52 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:38:56 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:29 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 22:40:10 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:40:24 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:55 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:01 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-63-169.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:49:17 tzk_ [~user@201.102.39.27] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:13 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:11 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:50 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@176.14.72.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:56:35 Is it just me or flexi-streams doesn't work with ecl 11.1.1? 22:56:57 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 22:57:21 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 22:59:35 3/act 23:00:05 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:20 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 23:02:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.105.253.191] has joined #lisp 23:02:33 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:05 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:17 -!- naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-96-87.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:41 -!- tzk_ [~user@201.102.39.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:32 a1b2c3 [48d58dc3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.213.141.195] has joined #lisp 23:14:53 Hello 23:16:05 i've extensively read cliki.net and have installed quicklisp, but it seems cffi fails when installing other packages, namely cl-gtk2. 23:16:21 would anyone know how to fix this or to manually install cffi. i've not found the documentation on that. 23:18:43 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 23:20:20 what's up demos 23:26:11 -!- a1b2c3 [48d58dc3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.213.141.195] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:32:19 yates [~yates@nc-71-54-138-121.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:29 do all lisp database frameworks store the data definition in the lisp code? 23:33:37 (e.g., CLSQL)? 23:36:59 hello? 23:37:44 twas brillig, and the slithy toves ... 23:38:00 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:31 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:41:13 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:54 did gyre and gimble around the wabe 23:43:12 yates: There's clsql-orm (and before it, pg-introspect), which goes the other way, and turns db tables into lisp objects. 23:44:06 CrazyEddy [~dispersoi@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 23:50:11 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:29 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:56:22 ah 23:56:35 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]