00:00:37 monadology. 00:01:04 Leibniz is probably easier. :P 00:01:08 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:05:24 (.. monads are just a particular idiom / design pattern / library API. what appears to be hard to get is that there's very little to get) 00:08:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:11:19 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:29 whats the best pattern for handling type errors, eg, fun with parameter X only makes sense for integer's 00:13:36 found check-type and assert 00:14:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-79-35.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:17 There's also declare. 00:17:19 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.21.189] has joined #lisp 00:17:45 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:19:33 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-101-227.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:19:50 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-101-227.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:19:56 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.21.189] has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:32 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@64.134.223.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:56 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:11 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 00:23:32 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:23:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:23:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:24:00 -!- Odditus is now known as Oddity 00:25:15 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:33 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 00:30:47 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180096032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:01 Hun^80 [~Hunden@e180096032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:26 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180096032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:26 -!- Hun^80 [~Hunden@e180096032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:33:00 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 00:36:30 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-173-129.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:39:03 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:43 Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F3A3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:10 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:42:19 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 00:44:45 mcox [~user@203-214-84-142.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:45:45 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.82] has quit [Quit: Offline] 00:47:45 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:47:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:48:02 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 00:48:55 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180096032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ...] 00:49:21 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-119.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23E4B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:50:51 joker` [~user@dslb-188-105-097-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:32 Anyone have any pointers on releasing code? e.g. In lisp-unit the license at the top says Copyright 2004-2005, and in cl-ppcre says 2002-2009. What determines the years you put there? 00:53:06 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 00:53:20 pnq [~nick@AC83C117.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:36 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F3A3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:56:56 AFAIK you begin with the year that first release the code, and the update with each release you made, keeping the first date 00:57:43 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:06 -!- pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:38 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F3A3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:42 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.21.189] has joined #lisp 01:04:29 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:50 benny [~benny@i577A7237.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:12:38 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:13:35 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:15:50 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:14 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:00 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:19:00 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-206-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:03 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:24:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:26:11 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:37 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 01:29:19 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has quit [Quit: some sort of segmentation fault is occuring] 01:29:44 jrockway [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has joined #lisp 01:31:35 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:41 -!- foocraft is now known as _ 01:31:50 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:32:11 -!- _ is now known as Guest99701 01:32:41 -!- Guest99701 is now known as foocraft 01:34:40 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 01:35:33 -!- mcox [~user@203-214-84-142.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:36:11 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 01:36:30 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:29 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:38:47 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:41:46 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B7C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:45:40 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:36 Can anyone explain the implementation(s) of CALL-NEXT-METHOD? 01:49:44 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:52:49 jcowan: iirc, PCL does something like: pass a list of the next effective methods as a lexically-bound argument, C-N-M is a local function that funcalls based on that argument. 01:54:27 precomputing that list isn't generally feasible, since it can be just about any permutation of a subset of the set of methods. 01:54:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:55:00 Right. Things get even worse if you pass new arguments to c-n-m. 01:55:06 Fortunately for me, ISLisp doesn't allow that. 01:55:11 nor does CL. 01:55:32 The new arguments can't change the applicable methods. 01:55:35 Oh. 01:55:45 Yes, I can see how that would screw things. 01:56:01 ISLisp doesn't allow it at all: i.e. c-n-m has arity 0. 01:56:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:36 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:58:32 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:58:55 -!- catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-fbcytisybzhhwpxm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:32 ebzzry [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has joined #lisp 02:00:43 pkhuong: you *can* pass modified keyword arguments 02:02:16 fe[nl]ix: you can pass anything, as long as the applicable methods aren't affected. 02:08:58 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: bbl] 02:10:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 -!- _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-69-201-142-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:30 LiamH [~liam@96-41-162-191.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:09 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:22:06 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24:18 -!- jcowan is now known as elisp 02:24:21 -!- elisp is now known as jcowan 02:24:26 RickHochhalter [~user@24-117-98-217.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:51 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 02:27:04 -!- RickHochhalter [~user@24-117-98-217.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:32:55 -!- Soulman [~knute@132.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:36:54 -!- como [~como@50.12.34.87] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:37:17 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 02:41:37 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-62-73-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:43:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-58.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:09 ohai_ [~ohai@202.124.72.251] has joined #lisp 02:46:08 -!- ohai_ [~ohai@202.124.72.251] has quit [Client Quit] 02:48:32 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4C18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:40 habitat [~triad@202.124.72.251] has joined #lisp 02:52:22 hello #lisp 02:53:08 i'm about to start a rather large project and of course choosing a language is the first thing to do.. 02:53:47 Good choice! 02:53:48 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F3A3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:52 I mean, Lisp. 02:53:57 my current shortlist is APL, LISP, Haskell.. of course i'm in #lisp so that should imply enough, but any reason why the other two are infeasible? 02:54:14 Turing Equivalence. 02:54:18 APL, really? 02:54:42 yeah, been messing with it recently.. it encourages an interesting mindset 02:55:08 Notice that if you have this mindset, you can write it in lisp too. 02:55:27 That's the advantage of lisp: you can write whatever mindset you have in lisp. 02:56:13 habitat, I'm new to lisp myself, but what probably sets lisp apart from your other options are it's macros. ask the veterans here how much of a benefit they are usually. btw, I'm reading "the haskell road to logic, math and programming" a the moment as well 02:56:15 If you wake up a morning feeling writing procedural code in Haskell, good luck. If you want to write functional code in lisp, no problem. 02:56:17 alright then. what would be the fastest running lisp? i mean to say.. one where the important (specifically numerical) structures run closest to the hardware. 02:56:41 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 02:57:04 clisp boots fastest, and compiles fastests IIRC> 02:57:14 but sbcl compiles faster code. 02:57:37 pjb, are the commercial options really so horrendously expensive? 02:57:37 Now, you would have to benchmark, it's possible ccl compiles faster code too. 02:57:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-172-222.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:57:49 littlebobby: it's a question of principle. 02:57:59 that means? 02:58:31 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:34 I prefer to work with free software, where I have the freedom to patch bugs myself. 02:59:27 indeed, I feel the same way. but I find it at least interesting to know about possibly "better" options (whatever constitutes 'better in this case) 02:59:42 that's why haskell is on the list.. compiles to C, or possibly even assembler (i am aware it is very easy to do this in lisp.. well, maybe with a little effort) and has native support for parallelism.. i was fond of the termite library for scheme a while back because it mimicked erlang's message passing style. 02:59:51 Most commercial implementations are good too. 03:00:18 habitat, may I ask what your project would be about in the broadest sense? 03:00:30 -!- eddayyy [~etate@cpc2-slam5-2-0-cust373.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:00:53 large scale matrix processing 03:01:09 nodal points encapsulating various forms of functionality/cycles 03:01:10 So calls to lapack? 03:01:28 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 03:01:40 that could be a solution pkhuong 03:02:32 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:02:51 the data will be spread across multiple machines so i need a way of getting lisp to recognise many machines as one.. or possibly an intermediate database. the solver is in realtime. 03:03:25 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-119.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:27 "several machines" sounds a bit erlang-ish 03:04:17 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8EF6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:16 yes.. i grew tired of erlang after a while. inflexible past a point 03:05:22 :-) 03:05:22 i found this: http://termite.googlecode.com/files/termite.pdf 03:05:54 it might still be good to manage boxes, failover and stuff like that 03:05:59 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:26 There are libraries. 03:06:38 como [~como@50.12.34.87] has joined #lisp 03:06:59 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-128-43.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:07:04 -!- como is now known as Guest88596 03:07:05 Good morning everyone! 03:07:26 meh, daylight 03:07:29 Good morning! Somewhat to a closer timzone? :-) 03:07:52 pjb: Yes, I am back in Bordeaux. Arrived yesterday. 03:07:56 <- 5:07 (gmt +2; berlin) 03:08:27 littlebobby: in Spain Sun's still not up. 03:08:40 heh 03:08:50 habitat: I'm a total lisp idiot...but it's a very productive language 03:09:47 lisp it is ! 03:10:02 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:17 whee, I can't get fast enough through "practical common lisp"... can't await to grasp the possibilites that macros make possible 03:10:25 you know, as long as i don't have to plant a field of mallocs i'm all good 03:10:36 :) 03:11:02 habitat, I've read somewhere that haskell has a great FFI 03:11:15 littlebobby: it's more fun if you just start a project and stumble through :) 03:12:31 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:59 (I'm making a web app with hunchentoot) 03:13:30 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-171-206.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 03:13:45 whee, I'm coming mostly from python & erlang, even though I haven't done anything too serious with both. when I've started writing haxe (targets the flash platform and others) I felt a little bit set back. Even though it has a few better language features than actionscript it's still a bit, well, unwieldy 03:14:09 whee, yeah I might explore hunchentoot as well 03:15:22 I find it very interesting that lisp can be pretty fast even though it's such a high-level language, that's damn impressive 03:16:22 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-62.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:47 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:19:27 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has joined #lisp 03:21:36 pjb, http://www.kurfuerstendamm.de/en/berlin/webcam/ :-) 03:21:40 habitat: I'd take a look at quicklisp (library manager), too 03:21:58 i have that installed, to use gtk 03:22:48 I was wondering how feasible it would to write a server in lisp managing lots of sockets. that's usually something I should use erlang for, but I imagine that lisps flexibility could come in very handy for some apps 03:23:50 -!- Guest88596 [~como@50.12.34.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:53 just like anything else i suppose, after all it is the system that handles the actual socket 03:25:57 I've heard in a podcast (from '08, well) that some implementations can be resource hungry, so running lots of instances to act as simple gameservers wouldn't be feasible. 03:26:42 could always offload the socket handling to erlang ;) 03:27:03 habitat, yeah, I suppose that'll be more clear to me soon, lisp should at least be a great learning tool 03:27:09 whee, how'd you do the interop? 03:27:24 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 03:27:25 @littlebobby http://www.erlang.org/doc/tutorial/c_portdriver.html 03:29:41 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 03:30:46 habitat, yeah, ports of course. but how much memory do the implementations take usually? in the podcast it was talked about somewhere in the range of 200MB 03:32:03 *littlebobby* shouldn't listen to scary podcasts at night 03:32:14 sorry, memory for which part of the process? 03:32:18 Huh. This has probably been mentioned before, but: One of the tracks of the Portal 2 soundtrack (free download) has the following title (in ID3, not filename): 03:32:18 (defun botsbuildbots () (botsbuildbots)) 03:33:15 habitat, hmm, for the whole runtime maybe? 03:35:05 It depends on the implementation. 03:35:23 ..and how lazy it is :) 03:35:56 SBCL, for example, allocates a platform-dependent amount of memory upon startup, which is configurable via c command-line option. 03:36:03 it would be very cool to use all socket handling in erlang, implemented as streams in lisp.. 03:36:42 joshe: there's allocation and reservation. 03:36:47 joshe, thanks. It's unusual to me to have several implementations to choose from 03:37:15 pkhuong: I'd argue that the distinction lies with the operating system 03:37:42 habitat, streams in lisp? 03:37:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:37:47 http://i.imgur.com/u2McG.png 03:37:48 joshe: sure. 03:38:03 semantics, I suppose 03:38:57 habitat, hilarious 03:38:58 the information required to account for sockets is minimal, as long as it's transparent i guess it just depends on how you wire it. 03:39:17 Perhaps I'm overly sensitive since I use one of the few unixlike OSes which check resource limits when mmap() is called, as opposed to when physical memory is actually allocated 03:39:22 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:22 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 03:44:31 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has 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fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-127-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:20 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:38:09 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217160140.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:38:31 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-67-204.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:54:17 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D419.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 -!- mutewit [~mutew@c-68-48-11-23.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:12 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77eddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:14 Hello! 12:01:29 hi 12:04:12 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:43 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 12:09:26 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-230-23.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:13:16 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:15:48 hi 12:15:58 please is there any boolean xor function? 12:16:13 logxor integer integer 12:16:25 I need something like (xor t nil) 12:18:35 (not (equal (t nil)) ? 12:19:13 ok 12:20:22 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-136.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 12:20:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-230-23.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:20:46 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:21:39 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.21.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:25:33 youguy [~youguy@77.208.204.147] has joined #lisp 12:27:00 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has joined #lisp 12:29:45 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[~jingtaozf@117.79.232.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:01:05 youguy [~youguy@77.208.204.147] has joined #lisp 13:01:42 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217160140.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:01:45 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:02:41 pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:08:15 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:12 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:09:20 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-74-78-241-181.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:10:50 -!- euphidime_ [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcdscqmduotmmove] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:11:29 -!- youguy [~youguy@77.208.204.147] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:13:14 -!- afa_ [u476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymllzgoxmjtxsbrx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:19:42 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:28 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B6DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:29 I don't see enough people using Maxima from within Lisp: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5652486/my-idea-of-symbolic-evaluator-performing-derivation-on-dynamic-set-of-variables 13:20:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.204.213] has joined #lisp 13:20:54 It's a computer algebra system. 13:22:26 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 13:27:01 Posterdati: (defun equiv (a b) (eq (not a) (not b))) (defun xor (a b) (not (equiv a b))) ; but the problem is that for multi-argument xor, there are several competing definitions. 13:27:34 pjb: thanks, I did with (not (eql a b)) 13:27:44 pjb: it was only one clause 13:28:17 (eql 'true 'vrai) --> nil 13:33:51 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 13:36:04 What is the new recommended method of installing the sbcl implementation when using quicklisp? (Last time i used clbuild 1.x) 13:36:45 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:38:35 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:39:04 zfx [~zfx@host86-154-35-214.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:04 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-154-35-214.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:04 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 13:39:43 youguy [~youguy@77.208.204.147] has joined #lisp 13:41:24 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:12 emacs-dwim: you need to instal sbcl first. 13:46:17 emacs-dwim: I download the binary, then I use that to compile from the newest source. This has the advantage that M-. works. 13:47:04 emacs-dwim: But it doesn't seem very recommendable :-( 13:47:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-154.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:18 Should i make a sbcl.asd? 13:50:32 -!- youguy [~youguy@77.208.204.147] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:50:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-154.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:50 mk2: you should study some CS... 13:54:14 I mean, papers as old as 40 years... 13:54:42 http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html 13:54:58 nha [~prefect@183-32.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:56:58 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 13:57:23 pjb, mk2: thanks 13:57:30 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:57:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:58:35 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has joined #lisp 13:59:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:58 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has joined #lisp 14:00:38 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.135.111] has joined #lisp 14:01:03 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:58 andreaskostler [~user@203-206-243-65.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:03:24 Hello 14:04:13 Is anyone here? 14:04:22 andreaskostler: hello 14:05:26 andreaskostler: type: /who #lisp RET to know if there's anyone here. 14:05:47 Thanks a lot. I've never used irc before. Bare with me :) 14:05:50 Hi, i using logbitp, but with a large number it always return nil for all index 14:06:02 is that expected? 14:06:10 If that large number is 0, yes. 14:06:16 Can someone help me with some weird behaviour of the format function? 14:06:50 andreaskostler: despite the topic of this channel, this is bad form to ask meta-questions on irc. 14:06:57 pbj is (expt 2 1024) 14:07:07 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 14:07:15 pepone: well, for such a number, there's only one non-zero bit ... 14:07:44 pbj ok, i miss the 1024 index :( 14:07:49 thanks 14:08:31 (logbitp 1024 (expt 2 1024)) 14:08:34 pjb what do you mean by meta-questions? 14:08:46 asking permission to ask. 14:09:01 asking of anybody can answer your questions. 14:09:02 etc. 14:09:08 Just ask, and see what happens. 14:09:28 pcavs [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:34 andreaskostler: dont ask to ask, just ask. for a lot of code use the url in the topic. in short, get to the point quickly. :) 14:09:44 Also, sometimes, you may have to way some time to get an answer. So leave your irc window open and come back a few hours later or the next day, if you don't get an answer immediately. 14:10:15 (format nil "~f" 5321.6802) works as expected -> "5321.68" 14:10:46 however (format nil "~,4f" 5321,6802) yields "5321.6800" 14:11:02 minion: here? 14:11:29 (format nil "~,6f" 5321.6805) yields "5321.680700"... 14:11:45 andreaskostler: you need to read http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 14:12:06 Those results are perfectly valid. 14:13:10 pjb: Do you mean I shouldn't call Maxima because it's insecure? 14:13:11 Tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has joined #lisp 14:13:16 pjb, andreaskostler: #1=(format t "Can i ask ~s" #1#) 14:14:02 emacs-dwim: non conforming. Nasal daemon. Some implementation will evaluate it as an infinite loop, without outputing anything. 14:14:27 pjb: hence bad form 14:14:58 I can't really see why that would be valid... 14:15:23 mk2: I mean that you have only two choices: either you go to the beach, get some sand, and make your own processor and code your own software, or you must trust the chip provider and compiler vendor. 14:15:44 andreaskostler: because floating-point numbers are not real numbers. They're decimal numbers. 14:16:13 pjb: not radix-2? 14:16:46 And indeed, some strange effects are due to the base difference between the internal representation and the printed representation. 14:17:56 How can I get format to print the correct number then? Bashs' (and Cs') printf seem to handle that correctly... 14:18:24 What's the "correct number"? The results you get are correct! 14:18:27 pjb: I see your point. But I have the feeling that you are either trolling me or confusing me with someone else. We didn't have any conversation. 14:18:50 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:19:10 Well what I want is a string representation of 5321.6802 and not 5321.6800 or anything else for that matter 14:19:12 mk2: you said "download the binary to compile the compiler, but this is not recommendable". I'm saying that you have to trust the binary. 14:19:37 andreaskostler: have you read the paper? 14:19:46 mk2: Oh, sorry. Now I get it. 14:20:27 well, not yet :) It is quite lengthy. Is there no printf "%f"? ;) 14:20:40 andreaskostler: one temporary fix would be to use higher precision floating point numbers, but this doesn't change the fundamental problem and until you understand it, you will continue having that class of problems. 14:20:41 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:10 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:10 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:21:10 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 pjb: But I doubt there is a way of compiling any Lisp without having to use gcc or some other compiler binary. 14:22:48 mk2: Compiling without a compiler is tricky, yes. 14:22:48 mk2: that's correct. However, the parts written in C are rather small for most lisp compiler: they could as well be rewritten in lisp (or a subset thereof). 14:23:34 schmrkc: well, creating a lisp interpreter from scratch entering hexadecimal opcodes, should not be superhuman an effort. 14:23:48 schmrkc: once you have a little lisp, you can use it to write better ones. 14:23:59 pjb: Yes, of course. I just don't see why one would want to. 14:24:26 andreaskostler: do you realize that there's strictly no difference between 5321.6802 and 5321.68 ? They have exactly the same binary pattern, when encoded as a 32-bit IEEE-754 floating point number. 14:24:37 schmrkc: to be able to trust your software. 14:24:56 schmrkc: go read Thompson's paper! 14:25:04 Well how do I find out what precision my implementation uses? 14:25:18 pjb: I don't even trust the beach where I would find the sand :( 14:25:30 andreaskostler: *read-default-float-format* 14:26:25 (list short-float-epsilon single-float-epsilon double-float-epsilon long-float-epsilon) 14:26:26 so (setf *read-default-float-format* 'double-float) presumably fixes it...and it does. 14:26:41 I guess I am just too used to using double precision floats 14:26:45 Or you could also just write: 5321.6802d0 14:28:44 And there you go, using single-precision float makes printf produce rubbish (well, like you pointed out it's valid), too 14:28:46 andreaskostler: you'll still have the same issue with double floats. 14:29:20 Well, I don't think I will for the numbers I'm working with 14:29:50 In lisp, you can use ratio instead of floating points. 14:29:59 53216802/10000 14:30:37 pjb: I wonder how long it would take to implement a simple CPU on a small FPGA. Simple enough so that one can measure the time delays to verify that nothing else is going on. Implement Ethernet and enough Lisp to run a Bitcoin processor. 14:30:42 But don't use ~f, since that will convert the ratio into a floating point! 14:31:16 mk2: not too long. 14:31:29 It's not a ratio. It's just a latitude coerced into nmea string. So while ratio will retain precision, I need to produce a floating point number of the format ddmm.mmmm 14:31:34 pjb: 8 months? 14:31:49 or less if you know what you are doing. 14:31:57 andreaskostler: double-floats should do. 14:32:54 Yep. So is setting *read-default-float-format* to double-float the idiomatic way? 14:33:41 andreaskostler: For casual use, yes. But if you want to be sure what kind of float you get, you should use the exponent notation. 14:34:18 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:20 If you read a file written without those exponents then you sure want to set *read-default-float-format*. 14:34:39 or, even better, bind it. 14:35:37 andreaskostler: this is really a generic question, everytime you have the choice between an absolute or a relative notation. It's up to you to know what you want. 14:35:59 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 14:36:33 In the end I can't use the exponent notation for the output 14:37:06 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 what is the application for setq rather than setf? 14:44:02 Bike [~Glossina@99.129.30.221] has joined #lisp 14:44:03 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-147-28.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:26 ramus [~ramus@99.23.129.188] has joined #lisp 14:47:18 Tippenein: you can use only setf. 14:47:29 Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-206-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:11 Tippenein: depending on the implementation, an application might be writing the setf macro. 14:49:05 so, i can pretend setq doesn't exist 14:49:27 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 14:50:15 when working at the repl, setq will allow you to assign to a symbol that hasn't been introduced by a defvar or a let etc. 14:50:24 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-68-169-203.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:31 setf will complain and in some cases refuse the binding. 14:50:41 but in general, you can usually ignore setq. 14:51:08 okay 14:51:11 thanks 14:51:21 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:32 I have a program that uses cl-opengl to draw to the screen. For me it is very important, that frames are drawn exactly with 60Hz and none is lost. It turned out that I lose frames because every 37 frames the garbage collector runs. The collection usually takes 12ms but sometimes 32ms or ocassionally even 280ms. 14:52:40 What options do I have? 14:52:41 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.138] has joined #lisp 14:52:57 Stop making so much garbage? :) 14:53:50 Zhivago: I do some image processing. Maybe I could reduce that but I rather don't want to limit myself like that. 14:54:00 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.129.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:00 mk2: change the garbage collector, using a real-time garbage collector, or an incremental one. 14:54:10 Currently I'm implementing a small C program with Command 14:54:13 mk2: ain't you happy you have the sources of your CL implementation? 14:54:41 bug- [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:01 How long does it take to draw a frame? 14:55:16 pjb: I read Luis Oliveiras Thesis. It seems quite complicated to touch the GC. 14:55:53 Zhivago: 60Hz is 16.3ms time. The drawing doesn't take long. If I don't wait for vertical retrace it runs at 600 fps. 14:56:07 mk2: this is a design problem, all CL implementers should be more than happy if you provide a patch to have a pluggable GC infrastructure. 14:56:12 I'd make vsync mandatory <-: 14:56:13 So, you could easily draw N frames ahead of time? 14:56:36 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:56:40 Opengl supports double and possibly triple buffering. 14:57:24 Zhivago: I implement a C program with a FIFO that will draw these frames in time. But this seems a horrible solution. I loose all the flexibility of Lisp (and it is a lot of work). 14:57:28 That would allow you to handle interruptions of up to 48msish 14:57:37 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-68-169-203.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:57:53 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-169-203.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:09 Zhivago: I observed at least one interruption of 280ms while I displayes 6000 frames. 14:58:23 Well, it was probably something to do with generations. 14:59:38 I also started sbcl with 7GB dynamic-stack-size and turned the GC off. But this didn't really work (After the first 300 images the pictures looked the same). 15:00:01 mk2: a Q&D fix that could work is to call the garbage collector once you've drawn each frame. 15:00:13 eg. (sb-ext:gc) 15:00:24 So that you don't want having too much garbage to get it called, 15:00:26 . 15:00:51 pjb: I tried this. Is there some way in SBCL to force the GC time to be below 8ms? 15:00:56 There are a couple of altnerate GCs. 15:01:09 The cheney GC is not generational. 15:01:22 You might find that running with that and a _small_ heap does what you want. 15:02:15 Well, generational should take less time than global collectors. 15:02:40 It should take a less predictable amount of time. 15:02:43 Zhivago: Hmm. I guess I will have to finish the C program. 15:02:59 But I'll try a small heap. 15:04:04 -!- bug- is now known as bugQ 15:04:23 mk2: i'd really have a look at changing the gc. Since sbcl can already run with different GC, it shouldn't be too hard to add yet another one. 15:04:27 Could I compile a draw function in Lisp and hand a function pointer to my C program? That way I could update the screen contents without having to implement a protocol for communication over a pipe. 15:04:53 You'd still have the frame problem. 15:04:58 mk2: Yes, but if that function produces garbage ... 15:05:35 Zhivago: It wouldn't. The garbage is produced by another thread which reads frames from a camera. 15:06:17 Isn't it somehow possible to pin object (memory) so as to be excluded from GC? and then reuse the same buffer? 15:06:42 manually allocate the storage for the garbage producer? 15:06:45 pjb: A concurrent garbage collector would be nice, if one could somehow enforce a thread to never be stopped. 15:09:06 hypno, Fade: I produce most of my garbage now because I take the 16bit gray level data that the camera produces and scale it into 8bit. I could actually get away without producing any garbage at all when I would send the 16bit data directly to OpenGL and do all scaling on the GPU. But I want to have the flexibility of Lisp. 15:09:44 Why not run two lisp processes? 15:10:18 Zhivago: How would I communicate between them? 15:10:26 zeromq 15:10:26 A socket? 15:10:31 A pipe? 15:10:31 a socket 15:10:37 shared memory, with a garbage collector to manage it. 15:10:39 um, shared memory? 15:10:40 Whatever you like. 15:10:43 how long is a piece of string? 15:10:45 :) 15:11:04 mk2: have a look at https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/heap 15:11:06 hypno: ^ 15:12:10 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:41 mk2: have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123107 15:13:03 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:31 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:14:52 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:22 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 15:15:49 pepone: You were looking for a way to convert a number to a list of its binary digits earlier... The lazy way is (map 'list #'digit-char-p (write-to-string 9 :base 2)) => (1 0 0 1). 15:20:10 (As a side note, it seems to me WRITE and {PRIN1,PRINC,WRITE}-TO-STRING) are way, way underappreciated. I seriously cringe every time I see (format nil "~S" foo) instead of (prin1-to-string foo) 15:20:14 pjb: that's an interesting system. 15:23:01 Just having fun :-) 15:23:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:07 *Fade* wonders if any of the work on GC has been done on SICL. 15:24:17 AFAIK, not yet. 15:24:28 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:31 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:24:43 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:24:48 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:25:21 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 15:25:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:26:31 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 15:33:02 pjb: Thanks, I looked at it. I don't know how I would replace SBCL's gc. I'll finish the C program. 15:34:03 mk2: you would have a look a sbcl sources. 15:39:09 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.135.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:29 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:53 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:43 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2206D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:38 what's wrong with cl-json. (encode-json "http://*/*") gives "http:\/\/*\/*". I want to have plain "http://*/*" 15:44:43 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:07 And what difference do you see? 15:45:29 (string= "http:\/\/*\/*" "http://*/*") --> T ; no difference. 15:46:15 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 15:46:52 the difference is that when i (ENCODE-JSON "http://*/*" stream) 15:46:59 mk2: you could try the ccl gc. i've had some good fps count with it, but i have no idea if it (or any other lisp gc) is ready for hard realtime stuff. 15:47:05 stream gets escaped sequency != http://*/* 15:48:47 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:51:02 ENCODE-JSON-TO-STRING does same weird thing 15:51:12 nobody ever used url with cl-json?! 15:55:48 anyway, removed #\/ from json::+json-lisp-escaped-chars+ to fix it. 15:55:49 hypno: I'll look into it. 15:55:55 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:58:21 -!- koollman [~samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:01:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:02:19 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:44 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 16:11:38 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:12:07 -!- roblally [~roblally@roblally.plus.com] has quit [Quit: roblally] 16:17:43 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:19:27 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.37] has joined #lisp 16:23:11 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp78-37-204-31.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:45 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:27:07 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.148] has joined #lisp 16:27:17 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:28:12 Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.12.74.70] has joined #lisp 16:28:31 Hey 16:29:02 Can somebody give me an example of what I can do with usocket? lol 16:29:57 Indecipherable_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/62851 16:30:25 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:31:10 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:15 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 16:32:03 Can I make google searches using it? 16:32:10 Of course. 16:32:11 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: reboot .. brb.] 16:32:42 Indecipherable_: but it is as dumb as asking what you can do with air? 16:32:50 Can you make babies with air? Yes, of course. 16:33:09 pbj has done so frequently. 16:33:41 Lazy saturday afternoon, Zhivago? 16:33:56 I'm new to sockets. just want to try out for practice 16:33:58 No. 16:35:56 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-161-151.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:36:00 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:40:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.25] has joined #lisp 16:41:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:42:41 -!- Indecipherable_ [~IceChat7@41.12.74.70] has left #lisp 16:43:53 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:11 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has left #lisp 16:55:27 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:03:16 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:05:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:05:22 loke_ 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now known as symbole 17:16:46 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb119-74-211-163.singnet.com.sg] has left #lisp 17:17:01 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 17:17:13 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:18:09 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:25 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:55 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 17:24:09 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-136.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:37 Indecipherable [~IceChat7@41.9.95.69] has joined #lisp 17:26:03 Is there a site with fun programming projects to do? 17:27:06 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 17:30:49 http://projecteuler.net/ ? :) 17:32:20 oh that one. lol 17:33:35 -!- daimrod is now known as totoz 17:33:41 -!- totoz 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has joined #lisp 18:55:34 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 18:55:51 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:00:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:01:17 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:22 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 19:02:25 -!- bijan [~bijan@c-107-2-160-115.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:00 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:29 Hunden [~Hunden@e180102066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:14 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:14:25 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:58 koollman [~samson_t@94.23.51.7] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:19 thinking about an iOS app generator, dsl, static layout is easy, behavior is making my head hurt, 19:17:39 anything out there thats similar I can look at? I'm sure this has been done 19:19:06 This is probably past my level of understanding at this point 19:19:07 What about ECL? 19:21:00 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:40 derekv: there's a ccl in the repository to generate iOS applications. 19:22:39 really? I was looking at ccl , only saw some page like "feature idea : iOS/arm support" 19:22:44 Check the mailing list for more info. 19:22:50 cool thanks 19:23:45 wivlaro, yea I was thinking possibly along those lines 19:24:06 i've worked on three iphone apps now and its like 99% boilerplate and bug prone 19:25:24 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:26:23 derekv: there's a fork on github for ecl/iOS 19:26:54 pnq [~nick@AC81256B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:25 *derekv* decides to look at every project on github 19:30:53 ahh its like someone's done a few years of work for me again. 19:31:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:37 derekv, you mean ecl by that? 19:31:55 -!- joker` [~user@dslb-188-105-097-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:07 both/either... if it works well 19:32:14 probably won't get to use it for work 19:32:19 derekv, both? ecl & ccl? 19:32:45 Whichever works to make iOS programming not make me want to die. 19:33:24 "done a few years of work for me again" got my curiosity ;-) 19:34:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:34:46 Like i'm the king of france and people are doing work for me all the time even when I don't know it. Oh, i've got a new palace, thats nice. Look a new OSS operating system. 19:35:06 only a matter of time before someone cuts off your head. 19:35:08 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:11 haha 19:36:00 zfx, are unmatched parens sharp? 19:36:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7237.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:00 yes. source: xkcd. 19:36:12 meh, gotta look now 19:36:27 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:05 http://xkcd.com/859/ 19:37:09 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:24 I had http://xkcd.com/297/ in mind. 19:37:27 its got garbage collection 19:38:43 zfx, indeed, that's the one :-) 19:39:08 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-001-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:39:35 faust45 [~faust45@208-140-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:11 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:52 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:20 stupid, the clozure link is right on their home page 19:42:25 what was I looking at? 19:44:53 benny [~benny@i577A7DF2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:47:20 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:02 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-188-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:12 npoektop_ [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 19:52:54 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:54 -!- npoektop_ is now known as npoektop 19:53:04 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:03 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2206D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:01 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756a9d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:03 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D419.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:07:27 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-164-70.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:27 cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp78-37-204-31.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:08:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:57 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:57 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f162.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 20:13:30 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:13:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:17 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 20:21:48 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.217.4] has joined #lisp 20:22:24 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.217.4] has left #lisp 20:23:04 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D94B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:14 yakov [~yakov@93-80-241-214.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:26:20 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.23.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:42 npoektop_ [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 20:29:54 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:54 -!- npoektop_ is now known as npoektop 20:33:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:36:28 joekarma [~joekarma@74.198.150.179] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-188-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:50:13 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@74.198.150.179] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 20:50:30 Dranik [~dim@109.126.146.168] has joined #lisp 20:50:52 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:51:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:54 Hi how can i convert ant integer to a sequence of bytes? 20:54:10 -!- pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:15 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:56:58 pepone [~pepone@84.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:00:54 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81256B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@99.129.30.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:30 pferor [~user@243.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:04:37 -!- pferor [~user@243.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:37 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 21:05:50 pepone: how would you like the sequence of bytes to be related to the integer? 21:06:18 -!- Dranik [~dim@109.126.146.168] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:10:36 splittist: i want to have the bytes of the binary representation, as if i do (char*)100 in C 21:10:48 -!- faust45 [~faust45@208-140-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:10:49 seems that i can use ldb for that 21:13:58 faust45 [~faust45@208-140-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:46 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:51 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77eddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:19:57 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:28 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:14 Bike [~Glossina@wsip-70-169-225-106.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:59 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-171-213.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:18 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-169-24.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:22 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:30:03 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D94B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:36:30 -!- gravicappa 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[~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:09 rgrau` [~user@67.Red-83-58-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:49 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:05:09 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 22:07:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wsip-70-169-225-106.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:18 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:10:20 Bike [~Glossina@64.134.223.220] has joined #lisp 22:12:27 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC2206D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:13 -!- Simul [~user@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:13:25 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:14:20 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:15:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:17:54 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:20:41 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-137-73.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:29:02 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:50 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:19 Hi, i want to create a byte-buffer, where i can read/write , Looking at flexistream, i see make-in-memory-input-stream, make-in-memory-output-stream, those are read/write. but don't see how to create one stream to read/write 22:35:13 -!- hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:51 vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:37 -!- faust45 [~faust45@208-140-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: faust45] 22:37:49 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 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