00:01:13 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has joined #lisp 00:02:32 thats comedic youtube vid 00:02:43 i woulda shot into crowd with shotgun 00:02:47 repeatedly 00:03:17 good thing homicidal maniacs aren't allowed to purchase firearms! (oh wait, in the US they are) 00:03:47 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 00:04:26 that's both a good and a bad thing (minus "homicidal maniacs") 00:08:42 well someone gota trim the hippy population 00:08:43 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:08:45 grow liek roaches 00:09:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:08 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-bkcdusmwfsdudory] has joined #lisp 00:15:48 so, question about packages 00:16:21 if you only have one .lisp file defines symbols in a package 00:16:42 can you just put (defpackage) in the same file above your (in-package) 00:17:11 I was reading practical common lisp, and it seemed to indicate you had to keep all your defpackage statements in a seperate .lisp file to keep things sane 00:17:54 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:18:03 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:18:16 why not 00:18:26 Well, that would be a matter of style. Putting them in the same file is legal, so far as I know. 00:20:41 -!- Skitter [~Skitter@109.65.206.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:14 thanks 00:22:33 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:23:05 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:53 pcavs_1 [~paul@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 00:25:07 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:28:08 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:22 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:29:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@38.104.194.118] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:33:18 catphive: yeah its fine to do it this way, some people prefer having a package.lisp and then having (in-package ...) at the top of each file.. 00:34:05 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:20 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:35:25 sup[ 00:35:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:37:47 -!- pcavs_1 [~paul@63.139.127.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:39:12 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:27 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-183-245.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:00 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:43:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:45:06 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:49:48 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:50:44 is there something like positivep? (> x 0) 00:51:03 plusp 00:51:18 thanks 00:53:38 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:30 msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-fqgcwzhkvemthmjc] has joined #lisp 00:56:27 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:02 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: bbl] 01:02:33 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:05 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:12 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:03:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 01:04:36 KDr2 [~KDr2@125.34.43.220] has joined #lisp 01:04:38 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:31 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 01:10:06 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:13:15 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:43 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3134.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:15:52 -!- pcavs_ [~pcavallar@63.139.127.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:20:42 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:21:18 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82BB6A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:21:32 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:49 pnq [~nick@ACA22B62.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:56 Hi, is anyone here interested in FPGA or open hardware? 01:24:21 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:37 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has joined #lisp 01:26:24 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-58.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:35:13 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-1-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:35:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wiamnwcurxhgsyrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:43 davazp [~user@42.Red-88-5-160.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:18 Hello, 01:36:52 -!- Soulman [~knute@132.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:37:02 do somebody know a way in elephant to specify an 'autoincrement' slot 01:37:14 for every instance in the class? 01:38:37 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-1-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:54 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-126-164.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:40:14 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-62-109.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:40:54 peanut 01:43:44 parolang [~parolang@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:06 Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-206-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:33 I wrote a small (and drafty) report on how I played with an open graphics PCI card here: http://issuu.com/kielhorn/docs/lisp_and_the_open_graphics_development_board and the Lisp code is here (only SBCL): http://paste.lisp.org/+2MXS 01:48:57 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:49:38 there's (unsigned 8) (or 32, etc) in sb-alien. 01:50:30 and sb-alien automatically converts hyphens to underscores. 01:51:27 pkhuong: That's nice to know I'm always confused about how long an int is. 01:52:12 I like to use toplevel macrolets when I have a macro that's only used in a section of code, especially when it's only for convenience (in your case, defining constants or C functions) 01:55:14 pkhuong: When I use defmacro I can use macroexpand. I tend to run into problems when I try to debug macrolets. 01:55:38 slime has nice support for that. 01:56:21 or convert to a macrolet after the fact. It's nice because it's a sign that the macro can be forgotten once you're out of the macrolet. 01:56:33 plus, you can use a really short name like def. 01:59:20 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-62-109.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:00:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:00:41 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-70-151.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:01:21 pkhuong: I just tried: (DEFINE-ALIEN-ROUTINE ("oga1-card-open" CARD-OPEN) ...) and it doesn't replace the hyphen. I could use (define-alien-routine oga1-card-open ...) but I didn't want to have oga1- infront of all my lisp function names. 02:02:11 How do lisps tend to implement multiple-value returns? Do they go onto the heap? Or is the stack marked with the returned element count in some way? 02:02:28 mk2: I'm interested in FPGA, but interested as in "I like the thought of them" more than "I stand any serious chance of spending time playing with them." 02:04:20 Modius: One approach is to just the results beyond the first in a vector. 02:04:33 anyone clone baldurs gate in common lisp yet? 02:04:58 mk2: of course not, that's the point of the (c-name-string lisp-name-symbol) syntax. 02:05:23 Modius: er, just store. 02:05:45 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-70-151.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:05:49 zhivago: You mean every return is a value + vector in such a scheme? 02:06:18 pkhuong: I now understood slime-macroexpand-all. That will be useful. 02:06:20 Modius: with a global (or thread-local) vector. 02:06:53 . . .aah. . . 02:06:54 Modius: You only need one vector. 02:06:58 mk2: sure, I can see the point. I'd be careful with side-effecting strings though. See substitute, as well. 02:07:26 Then your multiple-value aware operators can look at that vector and see how many of its elements are valid. 02:07:41 mk2: a lot of bindings will have a set of almost raw FFI bindings, and another one of lispified bindings for general consumption anyway. 02:07:56 Zhivago: Technically then every call would also have to clear the vector, right? 02:08:01 Modius: no. 02:08:33 I see how something can populate it, and how something can read it - but what clears it? 02:08:35 They would only have to reset the number of return values. 02:08:36 Modius: Just set the count. 02:08:48 I guess that's clearing it. 02:08:51 Aye 02:08:52 Thanks 02:09:00 Except infinitely cheaper. 02:09:12 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:09:23 I don't know how many CL implementations do it that way, though. 02:09:46 CCL has a nice trick in which they return to another address on multiple value returns, iirc. 02:10:04 No, that's old python (CMUCL still, probably) 02:10:24 -!- rTypo [~rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:53 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-22-175.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:11:14 old python would return to another address on *single* value returns; SBCL now uses a flag bit on x86 to denote multiple value returns. 02:11:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:12:14 right, CCL encodes whether the receiver wants anything but 1 value in the alignment of the return address. 02:12:25 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@66.201.54.34] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:13:23 javascript is interesting in this regard. 02:13:52 Since it lacks multiple-value-returns, one approach is to pass a continuation for those cases. 02:13:58 pkhuong: I remember trying substitute and it didn't work at the time. I must have confused the order. Also I now realize that lispified binding would be useful. I could put the first parameter of the card handle into a lexical variable. 02:14:19 r = foo(a, b, function (r, r2, r3) { ... }); 02:14:49 Similar to the python approach, but with all the burden placed on the programmer. 02:16:51 What conventions do lisps use to make multithreaded work with GC + the stack? I assume stack alteration isn't done in a lock. . . . 02:17:14 There generally isn't "the stack" in a multithreaded system. 02:17:22 I mean the thread-local stack 02:17:24 Modius: the easiest way it to stop the world for the GC, and to only do so at certain safe points. 02:17:26 Whatever the return is on. 02:17:36 Then why would you need to care about other threads? 02:17:50 Zhivago: I assume the stacks have to be used as roots for the full GC 02:18:31 pkhuong: Some cooperative thing? Where do the threads submit? On return from a call? 02:18:50 http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/LowLevel/VM_tricks_safepoints.html 02:19:05 froydnj's post (first link) has more background. 02:19:15 Or, you could just not care about it. 02:19:24 clone badlrus gate 02:19:26 oh yeah!! 02:19:30 If you have a conservative collector, then corrupt values aren't an issue. 02:19:41 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 02:19:44 Zhivago: depends... With a moving GC, it could. 02:19:53 Yeah, I'm thinking copying GC 02:20:00 Modius: or yeah, be extra conservative and go mostly copying. 02:20:03 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q azathoth99!*@* 02:20:07 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 02:20:31 that's what SBCL mostly does. It protects the GC from half-initialised objects, but that's pretty much it. 02:21:01 I see - so you basically push the registers somewhere and the conservative GC takes care of the rest. 02:21:47 then you have neat stuff like hazard pointers. 02:21:56 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:22:39 or multi-epoch schemes in which threads only have to transit through a special state at least once between GCs. 02:23:05 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-183-245.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 02:23:53 Personally, I think that multi-threading is a bad idea in the first place. 02:24:01 If you accept that premise, then it gets a lot simpler. 02:24:18 You can then have disjoint heaps, in which case each can be independently collected. 02:24:34 you still have shared resources. 02:25:06 Not necessarily, but it's an option. 02:25:35 The main issue is to prevent the implicit flow of side-effects via object mutation. 02:26:01 so a process that implements a single mutable cell is fine? 02:26:06 If you share a read only arena that can't refer to any of your objects, then that's not an issue. 02:26:12 Sure. 02:26:13 No, it' still about architecture; the difference is with defaults. 02:26:38 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-58.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:17 -!- phrontist [~bjorn@pool-173-79-123-137.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:28:53 How can I measure the time a garbage collector run takes in SBCL? *gc-after-hooks* doesn't seem to be enough. 02:30:01 For my problem I have to verify that it is below maybe 10ms, so that the graphics card can run steadily at 60 Hz. 02:30:13 What it comes down to is the mechanisms by which side-effects can propagate. 02:30:52 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:54 Threads give shared memory which allows any mutation to propagate side-effects, and doesn't scale. 02:31:16 In this day and age, that isn't a particularly good design. 02:31:18 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:26 mk2: sb-ext:*gc-run-time*. 02:31:46 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:14 Zhivago: but when you do want shared mutable memory, it's probably better to let silicon handle it natively. 02:33:13 pkhuong: Then it's probably better to have that as a special case, like shared memory maps. 02:33:35 pkhuong: Thanks. 02:34:16 Zhivago: sure. 02:34:32 It's just a question of defaults. 02:34:52 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:36:34 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:40:16 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.5.117] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:43:05 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-22-175.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:44:31 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-107-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:47:38 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:23 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:45 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-68-33-206-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:13 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 02:56:19 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:15 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has joined #lisp 02:58:48 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 02:59:12 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:31 -!- azathoth99 [~gschuette@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:04:11 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8C854.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:40 -!- parolang [~parolang@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:05:06 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8FA40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:49 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-39-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:44 mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:09:51 hey guys 03:10:51 how can i treat a variable holding an integer as a string when using CONCATENATE? i.e. something like intern or parse-integer? 03:11:57 print it to a string representation 03:12:04 for example: (concatenate 'string "text" (parse-??? number)) 03:12:12 (format nil "~A" my-integer) 03:12:30 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-107-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:12:30 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 03:13:25 pkhuong: sweet thanks 03:13:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:13:32 Or perhaps just use format and not concatenate. 03:13:49 Wintermute [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has joined #lisp 03:14:28 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:35 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-46-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:14:49 -!- Wintermute is now known as Mococa 03:15:08 zhivago: im using it in a LET definition and couldnt seem to get format to work? 03:15:34 zhivago: well at least in the REPL buffer, it just printed the output to the screen and didnt set it as the LET variable... 03:16:01 nil is important in the above examples. 03:16:21 parolang [~parolang@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:43 ahh ok.. whats the difference between T and NIL in a format definition? 03:16:43 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:41 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-39-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:41 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 03:17:44 If only someone had written down what these things mean somewhere ... 03:18:05 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 03:18:20 haha fair enough.. thanks that also works and probably for the better 03:18:27 ill look into it.. thanks 03:18:47 Have a look for the hyperspec. 03:19:12 And I suggest working on how to spell "I'll". 03:21:14 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:31 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:16 #1=(1 2 3 . #1#) <- what's the proper syntax for this? 03:22:35 I'm trying to create a circular list 03:22:51 Depending on context, you may need to quote it. 03:23:11 I'm typing it directly into repl 03:23:23 what part should I quote, just the list? 03:23:24 Then it does about the same as typing (1 2 3) into the REPL would do. 03:23:39 tries to call 1 function 03:23:46 pcavs_ [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:04 '#1=(1 2 3 . #1#) 03:24:19 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 03:24:39 And make sure you have *print-circle* non-nil, of course. 03:24:43 yes thanks 03:24:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:24:55 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 03:25:19 I'm not sure what #1= is there. looks like a reader macro, but if it was why do we have to quote it 03:25:30 What is (+ 1 2)? 03:25:42 Compare with '(+ 1 2) 03:26:00 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:27:59 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:28:42 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:52 kennyd: It's a reader macro. So's the left parenthesis, and you have to quote that if eval-ing, for similar reasons. 03:29:05 kennyd: because you also have to quote (1 2 3) 03:32:23 hba [~hba@189.130.166.233] has joined #lisp 03:32:53 #1=2 (+ #1# #1#) <- can you do something like that 03:33:42 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:54 undefined label #1# 03:34:08 What's the 2 for? 03:34:16 value 2 03:35:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ocwbfzxxcrlhuric] has joined #lisp 03:36:03 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:39:14 expected it to return 4. but obviously I have no idea how it works 03:39:44 Oh! You meant (+ #1=2 #1#) 03:40:57 ah I see 03:41:55 seems useful if you want to use return value of a function or something more than once 03:43:29 Generally, how do lisps send params to a function - one param per stack "slot" or put them all in a list? 03:44:51 registers for the first few arguments, I hope (unless it's an interpreter written in C). 03:45:17 &rest and &key can complicate things. 03:45:21 kennyd: no. ## works at the reader level. In code, it's just like copy/paste. 03:45:39 Yeah, &rest, I assume, has to cons. . . . 03:45:56 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:45:56 depends on what you do with it. 03:46:31 Interesting, the fastest way I can come up with to determine whether a given integer has three consecutive zeros in its base-7 representation is (search "000" (format nil "~7r" n)) 03:46:53 (When n is a quite large bignum.) 03:47:16 pkhuong yeah I just noticed. (progn #1=(random 10) (values #1# #1# #1#)) 03:48:18 would it be possible to write a macro that did what I thought #1= does 03:48:38 -!- pcavs_ [~paul@c-76-118-176-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:48:39 What did you think it did? 03:49:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:49:43 am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.130] has joined #lisp 03:49:46 in the above code I thought it would call random once, and then just refer to stored result 03:50:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:31 zardoz [~zardoz@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 03:51:05 kennyd: LET not good enough? 03:52:33 it is, just curious if possible 03:53:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:54 kennyd: (progn #1=#.(random 10) (values #1# #1# #1#)) does what you want, I guess, though why you'd want that is beyond me. 03:55:58 hello. is anyone experiencing slime freezing with the same code that throws exception when run in terminal? 03:55:58 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 03:56:09 condition* 03:56:50 kennyd: though if you grok the difference between the two, you'll probably have expanded your undertsanding of the role of the reader vs the compiler. 03:57:08 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:20 gigamonkey thanks. maybe I'm crazy but this almost looks nicer than let :). (values #1=#.(random 10) #1#) 04:01:21 -!- seangrove [~user@173-228-88-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:02:46 kennyd: I think you were right the first time--you're crazy. ;-) 04:04:12 :P 04:06:39 Calif [~WyZe@bas2-kanata16-2925102075.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:06:41 -!- Calif [~WyZe@bas2-kanata16-2925102075.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 04:07:39 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-46-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:07:47 If you really don't want a LET, you can do this equally goofy thing: (values-list (make-list 3 :initial-element (random 10))) 04:11:56 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-69-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 04:12:09 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.194.68] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 04:12:38 When you use type-of/typep does it go to clos or some other parallel type system? 04:13:12 I'll stick with let, I just got overly excited after discovering #1 04:14:10 Modius: both. 04:15:01 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:15:05 What's the parallel type system using to know that certain types are equivalent (e.g. that a vector is an array) 04:16:00 I think that's a system class, so that goes through CLOS 04:16:29 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 04:16:30 But, then again, system classes can't be subclassed, so it might also not, and you wouldn't be able to tell. 04:18:25 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:16 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:20:13 youguy [~youguy@77.208.141.201] has joined #lisp 04:21:55 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 04:29:21 -!- zardoz [~zardoz@76.73.16.26] has left #lisp 04:29:23 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29:28 -!- spradnyesh 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-!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.111.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:34 topeak [~topeak@123.114.125.187] has joined #lisp 07:52:56 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.125.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:15 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:55:39 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:59:18 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.111.159] has joined #lisp 07:59:30 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:01:45 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:53 rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-237-189.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 08:03:53 -!- youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:05:09 -!- parolang [~parolang@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:06:03 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:08 Any idea how to make that prettier? I've got a list, and I run a few tests on it to see whether it's the expected result. 08:06:28 So I've got a expectation list like this: 08:06:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:02 `((#'+ 20442) (#'logior 255) (#'logxor 46) ...) 08:07:42 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-pwnjmjgvojjwnagq] has joined #lisp 08:07:45 this is done with a loop that calls (apply) and checks the result 08:07:52 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:04 and the one thing that I don't like about that is this: (#',(lambda (&rest r) (length r)) 1440) 08:08:47 I think that there's a prettier way to get a (function ...) into the backquoted list ... but I cannot seem to think straight. 08:14:24 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:23:07 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:26:45 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:27:43 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:48 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 08:28:24 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.111.159] has joined #lisp 08:31:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.111.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:05 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.166.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:33:01 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756744.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:34:27 flip214: is it a macro? 08:34:43 no, that's just top-level (let ()) 08:35:09 well you could use macrolet 08:35:11 but perhaps I could just do (,(function (&rest r) (length r))) 08:35:54 what I find most disturbing is the #',(lambda (&rest r) ) part ... I'll test whether ,(function (&rest r) ...) works too 08:36:47 #',(lambda ()) is weird anyway, ,#'(lambda () ) makes more sense 08:37:34 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.54.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:37:54 FUNCTION does not seem to be specified to take functions 08:37:56 why? (lambda) returns something, and I wrap that (mostly as documentation) in a (function ...) 08:38:09 so I wonder why you are not getting an error 08:38:16 don't know about the standard ... but it works in sbcl 08:38:37 well, it works because I'm doing explicitly (second) of that - so I don't get the (function), only the (lambda) 08:38:50 I just like the self-documentation (and highlightning) of #' ... 08:38:54 -!- ASau [~user@176.14.113.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:59 what are you doing with the `#',(lambda () ) ? 08:39:46 that is in a binding named f, and then I do (eql exp-result (apply (second f) result-list)) 08:40:10 ok that explains why you are not getting an error 08:40:29 but that's a rather convoluted way of doing things 08:40:34 youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:17 of course, I could just use `((+ ...) (* ...) (logior ...) (,(lambda () ) ...)) ... 08:42:40 As I said, I like that there's a clear indication that this gets called - and that there's highlightning, too. 08:42:42 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-107-99.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:43:41 -!- youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:35 am0c [~am0c@218.51.54.225] has joined #lisp 08:45:07 -!- foocraft_ [~ewanas@78.100.217.94] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:45:32 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-144-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:45:43 foocraft_ [~ewanas@78.100.217.94] has joined #lisp 08:50:27 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:10 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:57:33 sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-28-145.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:58:00 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:01:05 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-28-145.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:04:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:21 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:03 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 09:05:43 flip214: the coma must come before #': `((,#'+ ...) (,#'logior ...) (,(lambda ...) ...)) 09:08:14 pjb: why? it works as it is ... see here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123044 09:08:24 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:15 To avoid inserting useless lists and useless FUNCTION symbols. 09:14:51 but then I would just do `((logior ...) (+ ...) (,(lambda ...) ...)) and don't have #' at all 09:15:39 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:25 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 09:22:01 H4ns [~user@pD4B9ED70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:28 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has joined #lisp 09:22:59 Hi all! 09:23:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:25:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has joined #lisp 09:28:44 francogrex [~user@109.130.248.172] has joined #lisp 09:29:30 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:30:11 that's it guys, managed distributable completely standalone lisp executables (either exe or a shared library) of under 320k in size! 09:31:03 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756744.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:16 so you can put it on a 5" floppy and run on your 8086? 09:31:22 francogrex: great! link, please? 09:31:25 haha yes 09:32:11 no link (yet), it's here just 'made at home'. It's done with ECL 09:32:23 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:20 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:36:45 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 09:38:30 I'll try to write a little document of 1 page. Basicall all you need in a statically built ECL and gcc, that's it. 09:39:10 sounds good! 09:39:45 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:40:49 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.81] has joined #lisp 09:40:57 gcc.... noooooooooo... ;) 09:42:42 so could I boot from floppy into a ecl shell? 09:43:11 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-24-234-75-217.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:45:19 that I don't know but you can have quite small executable to show off with... It's a prrof of concept you have to realize I've not built on it yet, right now it's just console type of exe and of course what I use most as a support for other applications: shared lisp libraries 09:47:22 ok but generally small lisp binaries, thats something I missed! 09:47:43 Although it's not like it's worth missing these days ... 09:48:01 Given that 500 gig drives are dirt cheap. 09:48:05 -.- 09:48:27 what kind of reasoning is that? 09:48:31 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@125.34.43.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:39 I have a big house so I dont need a trash can style? 09:48:39 Valid? 09:49:00 Well, you need to measure the benefit that a small binary gives you. 09:49:14 it can be loaded faster 09:49:24 These days, scientifically speaking, it is bugger all. 09:49:25 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 09:49:30 Ten years ago, on the other hand. :) 09:50:00 Zhivago: it's fine and dandy when you use physical distribution, and when your app is big enough to dwarf runtime (in terms of memory use, not necessarily code size) 09:50:02 scientifically my ass, practically if my 'ls' was written in CL using sbcl, id wit 1-2 seconds for each directory listing 09:50:55 What if it were written using clisp? :) 09:51:15 sbcl's startup time isn't due to large binaries. 09:51:42 clisp never seemed to really work for me 09:55:15 el-maxo: Why would you even use lisp for writing tools like ls ? 09:55:56 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:55:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 09:55:56 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:56:16 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 09:56:27 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:57:18 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:18 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:57:18 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 09:57:43 I agree with Zhivago, the smallness of the binaries (I have made) do not bring much advantage other than: "look it's so small and does so much", more pride than anything else that's fnctional 09:58:03 And there's nothing wrong with that. 09:59:28 schmrkc: perhaps not for "ls" ... for "find" I'd think twice 10:01:51 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:12 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.54.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:08 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:07:42 schmrkc: ever wrote ls in C? 10:09:29 ok I admit ls is a bad example, C is a delight for that case haha 10:10:07 -!- Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:56 I can mix C and CL as much as I like that's the beauty of ECL 10:11:33 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:36 el-maxo: I think I even wrote C in asm because I figured I could create an even smaller binary. 10:11:53 Well, I guess people need useless hobbies. 10:11:56 yup 10:12:06 :) 10:12:13 I wouldn't even dream of doing it now because it is.. pretty useless. 10:12:20 but at 15 things seem brilliant and l33t 10:12:30 "All art is quite useless." 10:12:41 Useless things can be very educational. 10:12:43 el-maxo: I meant I wrote "ls" in asm. not wrote C :D 10:13:02 and I thought you was a prodigy 10:13:32 writing a simple C compiler shouldn't be that complicated though. 10:15:12 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:17:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Client Quit] 10:17:48 no but a cl to (human readable) c translator is rather challenging. That's my project for the now 10:26:17 I wrote a CL-GLUT program and I want to ensure that the drawing thread is refreshing every frame. 10:26:35 I want to make sure that the GC is never stopping the drawing thread. 10:26:41 I use SBCL. 10:27:01 I wrote a small testcase: http://paste.lisp.org/+2MXX 10:28:24 It seems like the only solution is to globally disable the GC using without-gcing. Which isn't ideal. 10:28:47 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B7AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:20 I guess I could start a second sbcl process just for the drawing and use interprocess communication but this seems to be quite a big kludge. 10:32:50 You could start two of them. 10:32:57 And have one run while the other GCs. 10:33:47 How frequently does your program need to GC, anyhow? 10:34:39 Zhivago: I don't think I could issue cl-opengl calls from two different threads. 10:34:55 Well, you could if you use GLX. 10:35:47 Although I wasn't seriously suggesting it. 10:36:20 Zhivago: I think GLX would be quite slow with the texture updates. 10:36:31 Zhivago: (its indirect) 10:37:27 Zhivago: I don't really know how often I need to GC. I work with big image stacks - so it can happen quite often. 10:38:40 Zhivago: For the debugging I now start sbcl with --dynamic-space-size 7000 and hope that the GC doesn't interfere. But I don't have a good feeling about this. 10:40:34 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.248.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:37 Well, perhaps you want a different implementation, then. 10:42:50 But I suggest that you do some measurements. 10:46:38 aran [~aran@host142-129-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:47:31 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 10:48:33 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 10:50:01 -!- aran [~aran@host142-129-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 10:50:07 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Quit: ..] 10:50:24 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:52:49 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326E83.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:21 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082A58C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 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seconds] 13:28:23 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:53 hello lispers! 13:28:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:29:07 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:14 hello kiuma 13:30:01 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:20 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:32:00 phil_ [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:13 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:20 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:36 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:32:46 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 13:32:46 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:33:06 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:14 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 Fixed...yay 13:33:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:52 -!- phil_ [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:34:20 hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:33 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:23 -!- hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:39 hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:04 -!- hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37:29 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has 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seconds] 14:03:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:04 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:10:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8118D7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:11:19 youguy [~youguy@77.208.135.52] has joined #lisp 14:14:31 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: bbl] 14:15:31 nicdev [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has joined #lisp 14:17:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:30 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:18:30 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:21:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:24:58 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77eddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:00 Hello! 14:25:04 Bike [~Glossina@69-92-50-197.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:19 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:25:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:28:19 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvpcd.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:04 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:03 -!- KDr21 [~KDr2@123.120.158.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:36:22 #haskell 14:36:27 heh mt sry 14:36:32 and apologies ;) 14:37:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:39:02 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.221.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:39:21 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-58.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:42 cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:42 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:06 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:43:43 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:44 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:47:32 Zhivago: btw, intersting argument related in a way to "we have gigabytes now": http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/office-365-8217s-potential-fatal-flaw-not-enough-internet-bandwidth/1204 14:47:34 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:47:35 Hmm... How can I create an object instance and populate its fields, given only its type? 14:47:58 the type of what? 14:47:59 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:59 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:47:59 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 14:48:03 loke: You want its class. 14:48:05 I can't just MAKE-INSTANCE it, as some fields (might) must be populated during construction 14:48:12 Zhivago: Yeah. I got its class 14:48:16 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.10.191] has joined #lisp 14:48:22 what's wrong with make-instance? 14:48:41 pkhuong: some fields may have an :INITFORM of (error ...) 14:48:51 loke: Well, there's change-class. 14:49:07 p_l: Appears to be a broken uri. 14:49:21 Point is, that this is generic code and that I have no control over the implementation of the class (I do, however, have control over its metaclass) 14:49:46 Well, if you make a standard information holding class, then you can instantiate that. 14:49:57 Then you can change its class to the one you desire. 14:50:01 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-149-185.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:50:07 Hmm... 14:50:08 And you can write methods to handle the transition. 14:50:20 Not that I'm recommending it, but it seems to address your requirement. 14:50:38 I see... That's a bit, shall we say, nasty though? I have to create the class on the fly, yes? 14:50:54 No, you can have a standard, boring class. 14:51:09 My code is used to populate instances from the datastore in this persistence framework I'm doing 14:51:24 Eurgh. 14:51:57 Zhivago: it's not that eurghish... It's a very thin framework 14:52:07 I'm doing it since I didn't like any of the others I found :-) 14:52:18 besides, none of the others works in ABCL 14:52:18 loke: Have you looked at cl-store? 14:52:23 loke: oh. Read on the MOP. 14:52:40 pkhuong: I am reading the amop book. Haven't finished it yet though 14:52:46 make-instance is a wrapper around a couple of generic functions that cover everything from creation to initialisation. 14:52:55 pkhuong: I see 14:53:53 -!- hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:54:05 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-174-62-239-154.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:24 hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:58 'morning 14:55:02 Zhivago: ... weird 14:56:11 Zhivago: basically, we are apparently overloading internet faster than bandwidth is introduced. Now add to that increasing popularity of cellular links, which can have all-over-the-place performance, and 40MB download becomes big, again. 14:56:11 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:47 gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:41 Fade: mornin 14:57:52 heya, j_king. 14:57:55 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 14:58:11 long weekend came early. only vacation hacks until monday! 14:58:19 w00t! 14:58:31 *j_king* hoping to get some serious lisp time in and get mug.io going 14:58:52 you using caveman? 14:59:18 was going to dig into parenscript for writing the client... 14:59:40 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:42 what is caveman? (also, is there an acceptance testing framework in cl?) 14:59:52 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:00:18 it's a framework based on clack. 15:00:23 ah 15:00:34 there are a couple of unit testing systems. 15:00:44 although I don't have much experience with them. 15:00:49 !! 15:00:52 :p 15:00:54 dunno about acceptance, but there are few testing frameworks, and I recall somthing that translated output from one of them into TAP 15:01:04 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-149-185.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:13 walled signed that contract for a common lisp software dev project yesterday. 15:01:21 was thinking of a port of cucumber 15:01:25 there's also Clucumber, so you could have user stories integrated 15:01:28 Fade: !! 15:01:36 j_king: antifuchs afaik is doing Clucumber :) 15:01:40 antifuchs has bindings to cucumber 15:01:43 iirc 15:01:43 p_l|backup: awesome. 15:01:47 (that's obviously CL + cucumber) 15:01:57 Fade: so, you got it? good for you :) 15:02:08 I'm pretty happy about it. 15:02:10 *p_l|backup* is going around crazy trying to hold everything together 15:02:17 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:18 our first outside dev deal in CL 15:02:22 that's great, Fade. livin the dream! 15:02:36 *j_king* stuck in C++/python. merh. 15:04:03 that's not so bad... imagei 15:04:07 *imagine PHP 15:04:11 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04:13 let's not 15:04:22 been there, done that. ;) 15:04:33 -!- youguy [~youguy@77.208.135.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:04:38 now if only i could program in bf all day 15:04:51 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:03 if you could program in bf all day, I don't think that'd say good things about your brain. :) 15:06:57 anyone have an issue with clsql-uffi 15:07:10 I'm seeing ATOL64 undefined symbol 15:08:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:10:03 sbryant_work: have you tried googling? 15:10:22 i have 15:10:33 not really that helpful other than "it should have it defined" 15:10:43 unless I'm blind. 15:10:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:11 it also has debuggig data that might help others help you. 15:11:42 you know, useful knowledge like it's defined in clsql's so; here's how to check that it's in the library. 15:13:00 i saw that, but was wondering if anyone had an idea of where to go from there 15:13:18 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-149-185.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:13:54 it's hard to help you; you haven't told us what's "there". Is that symbol in the so or not? 15:14:46 also, is the foreign symbol really in upper case? 15:17:32 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8213.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:40 H4ns [~user@p4FFC8213.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:54 pkhuong: trying to find out 15:17:57 it's not me that's having the problem 15:18:03 it's someone who is trying to build the project 15:18:26 it's really awkward. I started from scratch, and it build just fine save for a single problem find a library but that was easily fixed. 15:19:31 pkhuong: thanks for your patience. 15:20:16 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:24:18 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 15:24:23 Good morning, all. 15:28:05 (()) 15:28:19 No such function? 15:28:39 can you defun NIL? 15:28:52 *taiyal* knows virtually nothing about LISP so far 15:29:15 desjardins [~ssawyer@38.110.6.187] has joined #lisp 15:29:16 I've been reading "Common Lisp" by Deborah Tatar ever since I found it for $2 at the used bookstore 15:29:30 is that considered a useful book for beginners? 15:30:19 taiyal: do you know programming already in some form? 15:30:20 I'm unfamiliar with it. It's not one of the popular books recommended for beginners, but I can't speak to its merits, other than to note that it's a bit long in the tooth at this mpoint. 15:30:29 point* 15:31:14 Hm, the date on the book makes it slightly more current than the stuff I had when I first started playing with InterLISP ages ago. 15:31:35 minion: tell taiyal about PCL 15:31:46 hum 15:31:55 p_l|backup: Yes, I'm proficient in Java, decent in Python, and sub-par in C 15:31:59 Practical Common Lisp: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book 15:32:01 http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ then 15:32:15 it's free and practical :) 15:32:16 how much does that cost again 15:32:18 it's free? 15:32:21 for PDF? 15:32:23 it's free online 15:32:25 html 15:32:32 taiyal: HTML vrsion for free 15:32:32 but it's worth the price at amazon. 15:32:43 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:44 but even the aging WM6 displayed it right. 15:32:52 I do still have a major place in my heart for dead tree books 15:32:55 how much is it? 15:33:19 holy frig only $20? 15:33:22 see also PAIP 15:33:24 I was expecting 60-ish 15:33:36 PAIP is an _amazing_ book. 15:33:43 who is that man who gives lectures on Lisp 15:33:44 I've never heard of the book you're talking about. 15:33:47 and people always quote him 15:33:56 Paul Graham? 15:33:59 people have told me, here, to go to his site before 15:34:02 yes I think that's the name 15:34:10 http://paulgraham.com/ 15:34:15 he has "ANSI Common Lisp" and "On Lisp" 15:34:21 Good stuff. And he (properly) dislikes LOOP. 15:34:24 ACL is the book I learned from. 15:34:38 I've only been reading about LISP for a few weeks, but I was interested in lambda calculus in general 15:34:42 but his style has been criticised as non-ideomatic. 15:34:50 also I've always been fascinated by linked lists- 15:34:51 (by LOOP fans) 15:34:59 LOOP seems un-LISP-ish to me 15:35:06 loop is not lispy 15:35:08 i am reading On Lisp now...finally getting the hang of macros 15:35:18 but it's in the standard and you can depend on it being there everywhere. 15:35:44 you know what I'd kidn of like to do 15:36:05 learn a more strictly-orthogonal, bare-bones lambda-calculus version of LISP and then base my LISP knowledge on that 15:36:15 does such a language exist? 15:36:20 check out SICP and the little schemer. 15:36:26 scheme 15:36:42 the spec up to R5RS is only about 90 pages. 15:36:53 Fade: if i had jus come from pascal and saw LOOP, i would have no problem with it. but after you do some lisp, its syntax is not as intuitive 15:37:00 the joke goes: the scheme specification is shorter than the index to CLtL2 15:37:11 Racket and http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/ might be worth a look, taiyal. 15:37:47 But Common Lisp is also pleasing and useful. 15:37:58 nicdev: for lispy iteration, there's iterate 15:38:10 that second site you linked me, ChibaPet... this looks so awesome 15:38:23 but I find it a bit annoying in that you can't set a bunch of iteration vars in parallel. 15:38:26 one of the things I know about myself as a coder is that I tend to not be too elegant 15:38:32 Fade: have not used that, will check it out later today 15:38:35 and I've always wanted to become a better programmer in general 15:38:48 that's one reason I want to take up LISP, because it's so different from what I'm used to 15:38:52 once you learn loop, it disappears. 15:39:14 when I was first starting, I found the loop syntax annoying, but I don't even see it anymore. 15:39:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69-92-50-197.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:39:41 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:08 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:23 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@2.148.229.241.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 15:40:27 the argument for loop is that it's in the spec. 15:42:02 but sbcl and ccl will do TCO, so if you really have a hardon against loop, don't use it. :) 15:43:08 whether a call is in tail position or not, however, can still be tricky to determine in CL. 15:45:12 why would someone not like LOOP? Because the syntax is non-lispy? 15:45:21 Inextensible. 15:45:40 yep 15:45:48 iterate can be extended 15:46:37 I see 15:47:02 I have to admit that I prefer LOOP syntax to iterate :-) 15:47:14 but you have a point on the extensibility things 15:47:20 well, if you can loop, you can iterate. 15:47:31 I've found xlating loops between the two trivial. 15:48:05 but the limitation on iteration variables in iterate has hung me up a few times; i've largely just decided to use loop for iteration. 15:49:16 basic macro definition bugs in iterate's *manual* does not lead to have confidence in its much more complex innards. 15:49:16 Even with extensibility limitations LOOP is so much better than anything any other language has available it's not even funny 15:51:48 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-237-189.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:53:13 *j_king* prefers recursion. :D 15:54:01 all pegs are not square. 15:55:51 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:58:16 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 15:59:42 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:00:35 yeah. I've got a post I'm working on about something I came across in the Seasoned Schemer. I tried writing the solution to a problem in the common idioms of other languages and came up with a CL one that uses loop 16:00:50 it's short, but dense with meaning. 16:00:51 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.93] has joined #lisp 16:01:25 -!- nicdev [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has left #lisp 16:01:36 nicdev [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has joined #lisp 16:04:18 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-fjxoblivxqmcilxn] has joined #lisp 16:04:21 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 16:07:25 jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:08:37 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@38.104.194.118] has joined #lisp 16:12:37 sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-94.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:12:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:13:28 -!- curious_corn 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[u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ourgpgshbhxjgcgc] has left #lisp 16:34:44 Chris: So, what is the length of the string "hello"? 16:35:25 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:59 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:38:47 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: bbl] 16:40:25 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:36 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:43:50 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:04 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.93] has joined #lisp 16:44:14 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:38 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:46:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.10.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:03 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:48:26 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:53 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:48:57 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756744.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:18 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:54:36 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-iljdeicppeseoknr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:11 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:33 -!- pferor [~user@190.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:37 pferor` [~user@190.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 -!- joachifm [~joachim@ti0150a340-1901.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:01:10 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:02:33 -!- pferor` [~user@190.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:52 xan_ [~xan@231.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:09:40 pnq [~nick@AC8242E4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:01 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:58 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:00 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:36 Zhivago, 16 :) 17:20:10 Zhivago, I mean 20 17:20:31 zfx [~zfx@host86-171-51-249.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:31 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-171-51-249.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:20:31 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:21:11 32-bit characters? 17:21:34 or data structure overhead? 17:21:36 everything on the line after "of" 17:21:46 ChibaPet: in SBCL? 21bit iirc, which gets rounded to 3 bytes I think... 17:21:59 ah, heh 17:22:13 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:02 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:00 *rtoym* doubts 21bit characters are rounded to 3 bytes (if you're talking about storing them in a string). 17:31:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:15 why, wouldn't that fit .. 3tag + 21? 17:33:24 or is the tag larger 17:34:45 sbcl uses 32 bits per character in a string 17:36:02 aha 17:36:03 4byte alignment or just to fit in larger systems than 21bit 17:36:37 4byte alignment, I presume. 17:36:44 dcrawford: largest character code fits in 21bit integer, so alignment 17:36:53 pferor` [~user@243.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:38:55 marw [~marw@78.155.49.106] has joined #lisp 17:39:53 carlocci [~nes@93.37.202.103] has joined #lisp 17:41:36 I think it would really slow down string processing if characters used 3 bytes instead of 4. 17:42:23 hello. i'm starting to learn lisp. i joined to ask you how to solve the problem with lispbox, but i figured it out as i was writing it :)) 17:44:09 That's the best sort of solution. :) 17:44:16 But you'll still find help for things here. 17:44:48 thanks :) if i stick with lisp i wil surely have questions 17:45:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:03 btw, my firewall was blocking emacs, that was the problem 17:46:45 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 17:48:21 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:48 -!- pferor` [~user@243.213.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:50:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@231.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:39 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has joined #lisp 17:53:39 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has quit [Changing host] 17:53:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:53:57 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.65.63] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:54:54 firewall? 17:55:05 oh, must be windows 17:55:09 -!- hargettp [~phil@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:55:36 yes, it's windows 7 with custom fw 17:55:40 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 17:57:54 "fw" as in "firewall" and not "firmware", I assume. 17:58:30 indeed :D 17:59:08 *cmm* thinks one of the main sins those microsoft people are going to burn in hell for is reckless perversion of common termonology 18:00:52 and speling 18:00:55 I do wonder on what grounds would emacs be considered a malicious program. it's a bog-standard C-compiled executable 18:01:32 probably port blocking by default of new programs ? 18:01:49 "custom firewall" - i meant "installed", not the one that came with win 7. 18:02:02 yeah, we got that :) 18:02:16 it blocked server start on port xxxx 18:02:29 you mean you didn't write your own firewall? is disappoint :P 18:03:27 -!- nicdev [484a5525@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.85.37] has left #lisp 18:03:49 i am sorry to disappoint... i will write it one day in C. 18:04:13 not really :) 18:04:37 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:39 *rsynnott* wonders why it would ever be desirable to have a firewall block local connections on a desktop 18:05:08 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-77-36.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:05:44 rsynnott: it's on high settings (i hope) 18:06:08 rsynnott: to avoid worms to propagate from windows box to windows box on the lan. 18:08:11 pjb: makes sense but sounds like a real pain 18:08:47 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:10:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:13:28 how can i compile the whole buffer at once? 18:13:48 ^c ^k in slime 18:14:48 thanks 18:14:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:16:36 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:00 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:58 ehu [~ehuels@87.212.64.118] has joined #lisp 18:19:05 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:14 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.96] has joined #lisp 18:19:32 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:20:47 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-58.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:21:25 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:45 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f08:b3d::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:53 X-Scale [email@89-180-133-200.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 18:22:10 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined 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[xyzzy@178.73.218.140] has joined #lisp 20:47:33 vhost-, pm? 20:48:12 cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 how about /ignore? 20:49:56 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:47 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.96] has joined #lisp 20:56:32 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 I'm Isis. 20:59:20 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has joined #lisp 21:01:20 oh haha 21:01:25 holy hell 21:01:27 I'm sorry 21:02:15 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442425.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:03:07 mhi^ [~mhi@home.zedat.fu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 21:03:36 You're right to be sorry, insulting an Egyptian goddess. 21:04:38 well now I feel bad 21:04:56 I thought they were one of many trolls in these woods 21:05:04 turns out it's my friend 21:05:19 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:54 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.202.103] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 21:08:26 Younder [~john@145.234.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:08:45 amuul [~user@78.90.30.8] has joined #lisp 21:10:04 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633788.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:10:07 carlocci [~nes@93.37.202.103] has joined #lisp 21:10:54 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:12 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-173-77-24-106.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:10 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f77eddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:13:44 -!- cafesofi_ [~cafesofie@pool-74-101-89-173.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:14:33 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 21:14:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:14:37 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:15:01 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 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[~bl00dshoo@201.19.111.28] has joined #lisp 22:03:16 hello 22:03:32 What would be the best way to run Common Lisp with vim? 22:03:58 Unfortunately, there isn't. 22:04:07 well, there's slimv. 22:04:17 :q! RET emacs 22:04:34 I was wondering 22:04:46 is there any specific reason there isn't just a Common Lisp interpreter? 22:04:53 like there is the python or the ruby interpreter 22:05:02 Apparently Doug Hoyte and Paul Graham use vim, though. 22:05:07 bl00dshooter: you implied you were looking for an editor 22:05:15 yes 22:05:22 because I think it's the only possible way, right? 22:05:37 I've been looking for an Common Lisp interpreter that isn't bundled with an editor/IDE 22:05:51 bl00dshooter: Most CL implementations are compiled, though you can work in an interactive way that's superficially similar to irb or python. 22:05:55 no, I would say most (all?) common lisp implementations run on the command line. 22:06:09 whether or not it's intepreted is a different story. 22:06:12 Do you know any CLisp implementation that works with OSX? 22:06:18 It doesn't need to be interpreted 22:06:31 SBCL and CLisp are not bundled with a IDE 22:06:31 bl00dshooter: sbcl, ccl, allegrocl. 22:06:32 bl00dshooter: clisp is a particular implementation. It's CL or common lisp, or just lisp. 22:06:42 oh ok 22:06:45 bl00dshooter: When you mean the language. 22:06:54 bl00dshooter: ..., etc. 22:07:01 Emacs + SLIME is a popular option, but not mandated 22:07:08 I'll try your suggestions felideon, thanks 22:07:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:07:14 Younder: I don't think Emacs fits me. 22:07:17 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbffriurscsivsoo] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:07:17 no problem. 22:07:29 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dytadbeybjizaqcj] has joined #lisp 22:08:07 There was this simple but effective integrated editor + REPL project lurking around. 22:08:17 Can't remember the name, though. Maybe it died. 22:08:53 I'm also trying to dig up a readline for SBCL type of thing 22:09:05 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-udwbxpfvfuwkukso] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:07 which would be a lot less painful than pure CLI 22:09:33 felideon: linedit 22:09:41 yes that's the one 22:09:54 bl00dshooter: http://common-lisp.net/project/linedit/ 22:10:06 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC05EEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:06 Best install it with quicklisp. 22:10:07 bl00dshooter: here's a feel for what it looks like 22:10:07 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 22:10:15 bl00dshooter: http://xach.com/lisp/linedit-screencast.gif 22:10:34 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-149-185.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:46 Did you just type that in? 22:10:48 -!- X-Scale [email@89-180-133-200.net.novis.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:51 Or is it a gif image lol 22:11:06 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f08:b3d::2] has joined #lisp 22:11:13 Way cool. 22:11:33 felideon: can lineedit work like...run a lisp file? 22:11:40 or is it only possible to type the code in it? 22:11:50 bl00dshooter: It's for emacs-compatible line-editing and code-completion. 22:12:05 bl00dshooter: Like the stuff you usually expect in the unix shell. 22:12:18 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:12:41 Some key shortcuts are missing though, like m-backspace. 22:12:45 bl00dshooter: linedit is a lisp library, so from within lisp you can run/load lisp code. 22:13:00 bl00dshooter: however you can also load at the command line 22:13:13 Unknown command (LINEDIT::UNTRANSLATED (#\Esc #\Rubout)). 22:13:25 Also, meta-d works different than expected. 22:13:48 pnq [~nick@AC8242E4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:15 bl00dshooter: sbcl --load program.lisp 22:14:36 assuming sbcl is in your shell's $PATH 22:14:40 benny99 [~benny@f055160181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:15:24 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:15:32 (for example) 22:15:39 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:17:17 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:42 -!- benny99 [~benny@f055160181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:13 -!- xyzzy_ [xyzzy@178.73.218.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:27 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-109-90.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:27:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:42 -!- ehu [~ehuels@87.212.64.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:31:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-208-163.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:27 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-200-19.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has joined #lisp 22:36:14 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:19 -!- confab [~seven@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:14 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:39:21 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-169-92.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:35 rvirding [~chatzilla@95.209.94.245.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 22:40:50 confab [~ubuntu@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:20 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:42:26 -!- gkeith [~gkeith@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:37 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 22:43:39 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.4.197] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-183-245.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:46:24 gkeith [~gkeith@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:42 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.23.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:51 kkopiec [~kkopiec@host-81-190-75-2.gdynia.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 22:47:26 is there a way to only save my defuns from my buffer? save-buffer gives me the complete interaction, which is quite a bit more 22:48:03 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-183-184.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:53 sounds like you're using it w rong 22:49:18 you write your definitions in a .lisp file and use C-c C-c to compile those into the image and use the repl for testing your definitions 22:50:07 tcr1, might just be the case, yes :-) I've just started reading "practical common lisp", thanks 22:51:23 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.202.103] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:54:23 -!- cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:00 antoszka, but you don't mean "lisp in a box" right? because that uses emacs 22:55:44 littlebobby: No, an independent software project. 22:56:04 littlebobby: A simple editor widget and a repl in one windows (split horizontally). 22:56:22 (or vertically, dependning how you call it) 22:56:54 littlebobby: http://common-lisp.net/project/able/  that 22:57:38 Doesn't seem to have advanced much for the past two years, unfortunately. 23:00:23 Won't even compile now :( 23:02:10 well, I'm happy with lispbox so far :-) even though I'm a vim-nut otherwise 23:02:38 -!- jfletcher [~jef@5ac8b0e6.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:03:01 sacho [~sacho@46.10.23.185] has joined #lisp 23:03:08 Yeah, I've been a mostly-vim person, but moving bits and pieces over to emacs slowly. 23:09:15 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:33 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.98.225] has joined #lisp 23:11:31 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:32 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.98.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:59 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:57 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:21:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:24:06 littlebobby: have a look at ibcl: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/index.html 23:24:58 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:12 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:30:07 pjb, heh thanks 23:35:29 loke_ [~elias@bb121-6-225-2.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:35:52 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:37:33 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.4.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:38:51 -!- loke [~elias@bb119-74-190-224.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:28 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:46:15 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:02 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@95.209.94.245.bredband.tre.se] has left #lisp 23:51:35 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:52 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 23:54:33 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@2.148.229.241.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:56:01 -!- confab [~ubuntu@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:21 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.19.56] has joined #lisp