00:00:03 <_3b> on another machine, i just tell asdf to search subdirectories of a specific dir for .asd files, and put all projects under that dir 00:00:26 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:01:21 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:17 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:08:29 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:08:44 quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has joined #lisp 00:09:37 Why is it (ASSOC KEY LIST) and (GETHASH KEY HASH), but (GET SYMBOL KEY)? 00:11:38 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:39 KaZ- [~lulz@76.89.182.158] has joined #lisp 00:12:00 -!- KaZ- [~lulz@76.89.182.158] has left #lisp 00:12:00 it? 00:14:15 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:16 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:59 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:20 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 00:15:46 probably no reason 00:16:41 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:00 quotemstr: I tend to put that kind of thing down to the standard's mixed heritage. 00:17:13 rosario [~user@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:49 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:19:59 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:20:44 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:21:15 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 00:23:00 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:25:57 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.93.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:03 jfleming: alists and hash tables don't come from the same dialect? 00:26:34 Also, how the heck is a compiler that doesn't do type inference supposed to implement slot access efficiently? 00:27:43 quotemstr: I really don't know for sure which dialect they came from. I just make the working assumption that it was based in large part on how much of the existing codebase would have had to be rewritten for which change at the time. 00:28:47 Not meaning to defend it, since I came to lisp a _long_ time after the standard was written; I just rationalise it away and make frequent use of 'describe and the Hyperspec to double-check the parameters. 00:30:07 smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:02 Fair enough. 00:42:09 quotemstr: probably historical reasons 00:43:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:04 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:43 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:42 it's to keep us on our toes 00:48:04 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:25 If I put a conditional dependency in my asd file, will that screw with quicklisp's dependency resolution? I.e. does quicklisp grovel asd files in advance or only at load time? 00:50:28 I would speculate it would depend on when the condition changes 00:50:41 I know if I add systems and quickload again it seems to figure it out 00:51:00 but I have no idea what environment it's evaluating these things in 00:51:54 Like sharp-+ (#+) conditionals, just to be clear. Also, this is in the quicklisp dist, not falling back to ASDF with local systems 00:53:59 well, I seem to have a number of quicklisp-installed asd files with #+ conditionals in them, including usocket which is probably doing the sort of thing you have in mind 00:54:24 StrmSrfr: good idea, I'll look at that. Thanks 00:54:46 if you learn anything about why it works or doesn't it would be interesting to know 00:55:26 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:31 StrmSrfr: yeah, that is exactly what I wanted to do. This scared me: "Quicklisp computes a lot of project info in advance." -FAQ 00:59:53 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:09:46 -!- rosario [~user@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:11:17 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 01:13:58 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:19:12 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:49 I wonder what "in advance" means in that case. 01:20:28 he might be referring to the repository 01:24:00 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8136D5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:27:09 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:27:30 *p_l|backup* recently got an interesting case where a custom load system is looking favourably compared to ASDF 01:27:56 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:31:22 -!- fourier [~user@h-30-88.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:01 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 01:35:15 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 01:41:27 p_l|backup: in what circumstances? 01:43:23 -!- dakeyras [~dakeyras@50.46.100.36] has quit [Quit: dakeyras] 01:43:56 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:49:38 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:04 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.164] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:52:58 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 01:52:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-9-75-64.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:53:45 MoALTz [~no@92.18.6.84] has joined #lisp 01:56:15 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:24 -!- nannto__ [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:59:08 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:01:45 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:39 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:05:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:56 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-236-141.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 02:06:27 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:07:22 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C7C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:52 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:53 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:50 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:15:55 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 02:16:21 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: "emcs rbt"] 02:17:12 sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:43 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:25 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C718.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:18:39 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:20:43 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C718.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3DC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:07 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:27:01 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:28:11 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 02:28:44 -!- lester- [~lester@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC] 02:33:13 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:37:12 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:15 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:32 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:34 I'm confused about the semantics of symbol-macrolet. 02:40:49 The CLHS defines macro symbols as being expanded according to the normal macro process. 02:41:14 But in SBCL, if we have (defmacro bar () (error "expanding bar")), then (defun foo() (bar)), we see an error as expected --- at expansion and compile time. 02:41:35 But if we instead write (defun foo () (symbol-macrolet ((a (error "expanding a"))) a)), then foo compiles fine and produces an error at runtime. 02:41:52 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:00 -!- Soulman [~knute@101.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:44:41 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:44:47 thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 02:45:05 pjb: I got an idea where going the ASDF way I'd have tons of small systems, each few hundred lines long at most 02:45:25 a system for each file 02:46:05 quotemstr: sure, but your macro BAR expands into nothing (the code that computes the expansion is a call to ERROR, while your symbol macro A expands into a call to ERROR. 02:47:22 pkhuong: Given the wording of the CLHS, Each reference to symbol as a variable within the lexical scope of symbol-macrolet is expanded by the normal macro expansion process" 02:47:29 yes. 02:47:45 pkhuong: ...I don't understand why the expansion of symbol isn't evaluated to produce the substitution. 02:47:48 It's the difference between (defmacro foo () (error "foo)) and (defmacro foo () '(error "foo")) 02:47:54 Wehre does it say that it's substituted literally? 02:47:57 quotemstr: the substitution isn't evaluated. 02:48:09 pkhuong: Right, but where does it say that? What did I miss? 02:49:04 "The only guaranteed property of an expansion function for a symbol macro is that when it is applied to the form and the environment it returns the correct expansion." 02:49:14 Where is the correct expansion defined? 02:49:26 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 02:50:26 in the argument list. 02:50:35 The argument is an expansion 02:51:17 not a form that evaluates to an expansion. 02:51:26 Ah. 02:51:29 Tricky. 02:51:40 You can also look at the non-normative examples 02:51:59 pkhuong: Non-normative examples are non-normative. 02:52:06 which will help you understand what the legalese is supposed to mean if you don't have all the context the specification's writers did 02:52:07 pkhuong: But I see what you mean. Thanks. 02:52:26 quotemstr: they sure as hell are helpful to understand what the spec means though. 02:53:12 pkhuong: Fair enough. 02:54:14 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:55:38 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:58:49 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 03:01:34 el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8E924.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:53 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8D03E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:05:27 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:05:48 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has joined #lisp 03:05:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has quit [Changing host] 03:05:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:10:24 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:10:56 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:09 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:16:49 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:18:03 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:18:34 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:21:44 pnq [~nick@ACA22204.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:10 I'm kindof a lisp-idiot. And you know, I'm OK with that. Actually, I'm quite pleased with it. That isn't to say, that I'm not going to work to change it, and to become a lisp-competent or even, god willing, a lisp-smartguy, but at that point, 03:23:31 there's something else i'll be an idiot at. I'll be a something-else-idiot, and I'll be OK with that. 03:25:56 I'm not sure I said anything meaninful there, but if I did, hopefully, with luck, I'll be an idiot for as long as I live. 03:26:02 =] =/ 03:28:43 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 03:30:41 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:30:59 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:05 Probably a quiet idiot. 03:33:37 I'm having signal issues. 03:34:01 quieter may be better. 03:35:56 congrats antifuchs retweeted =] 03:37:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:38:41 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-62.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:39:24 mekgh i'm bleeding channels need to stop, sorry 03:43:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:50:08 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.131.196] has joined #lisp 03:51:45 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-145-79.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 03:53:19 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-228.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 03:58:08 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-80-221.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:41 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:00:45 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-69-66.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:02:32 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has joined #lisp 04:02:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has quit [Changing host] 04:02:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:03:24 -!- davazp [~user@42.Red-88-5-160.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22204.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:18:39 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: "rst"] 04:20:48 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:15 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7BF79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:33 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C718.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:28:48 smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 04:38:18 sacho [~sacho@79-100-61-93.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 04:38:24 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-113-251.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:22 rvncerr [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has joined #lisp 04:41:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:33 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-80-221.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:44:06 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:47:30 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-121-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:37 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:16 Fade: (1) Yeah, DrRacket was never intended to be a Emacs replacement, because there's another editor that is unbeatable in being Emacs-like... 04:56:36 (2) the fact that it doesn't claim to be "a Scheme" is clarifying things -- PLT Scheme was also not a Scheme in the same sense; what didn't change, however, is the fact that it implements a Scheme (among other languages). 05:04:14 eli: What other editor? 05:04:25 Modius: Emacs. 05:04:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:05:02 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-61-93.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:23 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:06:21 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:44 sacho [~sacho@95-42-77-124.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 05:08:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-226.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:13:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-145-79.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:36 JohnnyL [~IceChat7@ool-4a5a7407.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:15 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-121-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 05:26:11 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c6e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:32:21 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 05:35:01 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-052-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:19 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:37 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:44:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:52:22 BrianRice` [~water@174-31-157-30.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:22 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-31-157-30.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52:23 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 05:52:34 StephenDaed [6f45f8c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.69.248.198] has joined #lisp 05:52:55 hey, quick q 05:53:53 In this exercise I am doing, I am meant to make a function that gets the last element of a list. In a proper list, is that nil? 05:54:17 Last element is specifically contrasted to last cons cell. 05:54:55 (ie I am thinking simply (cdr (last a-list)) 05:55:07 ) 05:55:12 Perhaps you mean car? 05:55:20 hi again 05:55:35 oh, yes, that is what it will mean 05:55:38 thanks 05:56:06 In the list (A B C . D) , what is D? 05:56:19 that what i was about to ask :0 05:56:23 :)* 05:56:38 Not an element of the list. 05:56:58 how would you qualified this element ? 05:57:09 It`s just a symbol the CDR of the last cons cell points toÉ 05:57:11 ? 05:57:15 Yes. 05:57:52 thanks again, back to my novice exercises 05:58:09 ho yeah, consistent :) 05:58:11 thx 05:58:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:11 do someone has some paper on how to represent complex data structure in a LISP dialect (more likely the clisp) with list (not clos) ? I come from the C/C++ and sometimes I have some problem to find an efficient way to manage my data ? 06:03:57 daedric: I believe a common (and fairly useful) approach is to just use lists while you're undecided, then change to a more specialised structure once you've worked out exactly what you need. 06:04:30 You've lists, plists, alists, vectors, arrays, classes and structures to choose from, off the top of my head, all with different implications. 06:04:41 ok 06:04:42 Just to check: why not CLOS? 06:05:31 because if I decided to learn Lisp it was to learn another approaches when I program :) 06:05:48 Otherwise I would continue with C++ or python for example 06:05:55 daedric: in that case, you _definitely_ want to learn CLOS. 06:06:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:26 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 06:06:31 I thought that CLOS is an OO 'library' over lisp ? 06:06:56 is that different from other languages ? if yes how ? 06:07:03 Kinda. It's baked in as part of the standard, yes. 06:07:44 It takes a different approach: where C++, Java, python et al define methods as things that belong to classes, CLOS goes the other way around. 06:07:53 Objects just contain slots. That's it. 06:08:16 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mjyhtcjncofvlqjy] has joined #lisp 06:08:17 ok, so I'll take a look :) thx for the advice 06:08:18 ! 06:08:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:21 Methods are more general; you define their signature via defgeneric, then specialise them on particular types of object - remembering that _everything_ is an object, so you can specialise a generic method on one class, then on a totally unrelated one, then on a regular list if you want. 06:10:07 daedric: If you haven't already, you'll want to read this - http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 06:10:17 Mr Seibel explains it better than I can. 06:10:42 -!- StephenDaed [6f45f8c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.69.248.198] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:11:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:11:51 yeah I saw some introduction to clos but at the first glance I thought that it did not worth the shot :) I'll read carefully this time :) 06:11:54 thank you ! 06:12:05 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:20:06 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:20:06 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:20:06 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:23:39 splittist [~splittist@234-38.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:24:13 -!- cools [~user@CPE0026f32ba2b0-CM0026f32ba2ad.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:24:17 youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:34 morning 06:25:50 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:27:40 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f760a8b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:42 Hello! 06:31:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:34 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.131.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:38 hello lispers 06:36:24 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:36:47 good morning 06:38:13 Sup 06:39:43 would anyone like to see my new lisp video 06:39:47 it's of a game i'm working on 06:39:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Ln2K9ebZI 06:41:31 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:43:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-226.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:45:08 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:40 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:51:25 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 06:59:39 mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:01:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:04:10 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:04:18 -!- thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:06:08 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-052-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:10:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-214-78.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:15 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:12:26 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:14 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:13:51 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:15:18 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:17:24 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 07:18:22 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-55-187.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:19:39 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-80-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:19:39 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:21:30 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:22:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:33 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 07:24:32 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 07:25:52 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:26:00 -!- JohnnyL [~IceChat7@ool-4a5a7407.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that] 07:26:08 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 07:27:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:37 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:38 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 07:32:08 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:33:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:34:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:50 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has joined #lisp 07:46:47 dto: well, it looks nice, it sounds nice, but I don't have the least idea about the rules or objectives of that game. 07:46:54 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:47:47 Axioplase_: i still have to implement that. i'm thinking about hot zones (those bigger floating bubbles) that you have to avoid. and needing to leave sparkles in certain places 07:47:49 fourier [~user@h-89-19.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 07:49:46 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:50:13 dto: is it an abstract game, or something I can understand, like "you are a ship, and you need to deliver mail to various interstellar stations without running into wormholes"? 07:50:36 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:52:50 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f08:b3d::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:50 Eataix [~eataix@209.237.253.67] has joined #lisp 07:56:39 Axioplase_: there'll probably be some story yes 07:57:03 Axioplase_: i have some ideas here: http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/2011/05/design-document-for-super-xong.html 07:58:50 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7BF79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:59:31 ok, nice. 08:01:54 dto: are you still using proportional fonts? It's something I've been thinking about, too. 08:02:05 (for coding, that is) 08:02:11 I wonder if it would make sense to have a quicklisp-like distribution of games (for games don't really belong to ql itself, having a consistent distribution of games/software on top of it may be nice. I am not sure I am clear at all, nor that what I say makes sense) 08:02:26 "You are an inter-gallactic xongulator. You must xong the xing before the zang." 08:03:16 Maybe I should try to port Koules to CL, for the sake of (uncreatively) writing a funny game. 08:05:21 splittist: it didn't work out. 08:05:40 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:51 Axioplase_: did you see my yesterday's (very different) video ? 08:06:05 http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/2011/06/blockyio-preview-video.html 08:07:02 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has joined #lisp 08:10:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:11:15 -!- Eataix [~eataix@209.237.253.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:12:15 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:14:39 dto: indentation issues? Or just nothing gained? (Video was interesting; I have to say the turtle looked like a cocktail olive to me (: ) 08:15:18 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: "zzZZzz"] 08:15:46 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 08:15:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:17:51 dto: I was downloading it 08:18:29 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-quclxlcpqxlwgnoo] has joined #lisp 08:19:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:35 splittist: indentation indeed. hah yeah i thought it was a bit olive-ish at one point. 08:19:52 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-79-49.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:20:02 splittist: now imagine the turtle, but instead of laying down lines, laying down vertices for OpenGL 08:20:09 and spawning other turtles 08:20:18 that procedurally build a level 08:21:13 It's olives all the way down! 08:22:31 higher-order turtles 08:22:55 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-darpprdiwdgfmujz] has joined #lisp 08:23:49 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 08:23:50 easyE [hjPMtY7Aoc@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:24 yep 08:27:20 If I'd been drinking a martini, I'd have spat it at the monitor. Higher-order turtles, indeed. 08:29:30 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c6e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:54 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.121.133] has joined #lisp 08:30:49 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:32:35 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-fkaqckcfnkyatgpz] has joined #lisp 08:32:46 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-fkaqckcfnkyatgpz] has left #lisp 08:39:39 Guthur [c743cb8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.140] has joined #lisp 08:40:17 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-78-47.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:42:31 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-132-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:44:33 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:53 -!- Eren is now known as TA1AET 08:48:03 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-229-52.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:29 -!- TA1AET is now known as Eren 08:48:51 -!- Eren is now known as ta1aet 08:49:47 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-152-244.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:47 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.6.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:51:33 -!- ta1aet is now known as TA1AET 08:52:18 Hurrah for logo. 08:52:39 There is a concurrent logo that works like that, iirc. 08:52:42 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-229-52.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:52:45 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:53:13 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 08:53:15 mytoh [~mytoh@101.176.0.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:53:24 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:55 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 09:02:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:06:50 youguy_ [~youguy@134.Red-81-44-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:59 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:04 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 09:08:36 -!- youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:11:07 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:38 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:42 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 09:12:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:14:11 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 09:14:58 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:15:05 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:18:22 -!- youguy_ [~youguy@134.Red-81-44-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - 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FORCE-OUTPUT attempts to initiate output from the buffer, but does not wait for completion like FINISH-OUTPUT. 10:50:39 pjb: stdout is line-buffered 10:50:41 (conformingly ; there's no such notion in CL). 10:50:41 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:50:46 z0d: not necessarily. 10:51:11 Well either way, newlines had no effect. 10:51:12 z0d: stdout might be connected to a pile (eg. slime or inferior-lisp). 10:51:16 fource-output did 10:51:21 jsoftw: of course, you need to flush. 10:51:30 Yerp. 10:51:56 even if newlines had an effect where you are, you need to flush, to be conforming, and make sure your program works everywhere. 10:51:56 am playing with plokami atm :) 10:52:09 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A670.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:24 cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has joined #lisp 10:56:39 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 10:56:43 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:56:44 wow 10:56:49 sbcl has fork 10:56:52 unexpected 10:57:04 Yeah? What is it? 10:57:13 ? 10:57:16 No as in unix fork 10:57:22 sb-posix:fork 10:57:27 Ah, lol. 10:57:38 I thought the project was forked :) 11:00:33 : 11:00:35 :) 11:00:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-127.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:00:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-127.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:00:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:01:07 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:01:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:01:40 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-121.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:01:41 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 11:01:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-121.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:01:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 *jsoftw* ponders and schemes 11:03:29 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-159-62.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 11:04:13 jsoftw: only allowed Common Lisp here, no scheme'ing 11:04:23 ...hehe 11:04:26 ;) 11:06:30 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:07:22 Yay i think I have devised a new project :D 11:07:58 It shall occupy far too much of my time, and have me learn new things. 11:09:13 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 11:12:32 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:35 jsoftw: any details? It's hard to make fun of your idea and undermine your confidence if we don't know what it is we're dismissing out of hand (; 11:14:22 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:07 hehe :D 11:17:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-69-108.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:17:44 Nah I just want an excuse to do graphics type stuff (ie GL), and apply it to work in some loose way, so I decided to make some sort of loosley defined graphical game-like movie-like representatio of network activity in real-time 11:18:04 and recorded so trends can be monitored and stuff. 11:18:22 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:18:22 But mostly I like the idea of making whizzy graphics and cool guff like that 11:18:41 bee cool to make it look as movie like as possible yet be actually usefull :) 11:18:55 -!- youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:19:12 So plokami is my starting point :) 11:19:30 Should occupy a few years at least 11:19:51 (this is all for fun, not $$$) 11:21:50 jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-73-238.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:22:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-69-108.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:22:07 -!- jtza8_ is now known as jtza8 11:26:37 youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:30 jsoftw: and you are going to get paid to undertake this whimsical project? 11:28:44 "...and apply it to work in some loose way" 11:29:11 mcox [~user@203-206-245-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:29:22 well I am not planning on it 11:29:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@host86-141-133-140.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:29:30 but I could use it at work 11:29:32 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has joined #lisp 11:29:39 Wedge *nix and lisp in there. 11:29:44 Hi all! 11:30:08 Bahman: Hi you! 11:30:34 Time for sleep I do suspsect. 11:30:42 suspecth 11:30:51 suspeth? 11:31:04 Goodnight jsoftw! 11:31:09 lol night dude. 11:32:11 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:32:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:34:41 sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:33 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:41:13 -!- mcox [~user@203-206-245-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:45:41 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:03 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 11:47:12 silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC23D7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:36 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:17 -!- silenius [~silenus@p549471D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:51 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 11:51:02 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:48 cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has joined #lisp 11:55:02 -!- Guthur [c743cb8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:39 -!- prip [~foo@host37-133-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:59:11 -!- peddie [~peddie@repl.esden.net] has quit [Quit: peace!] 11:59:38 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:41 peddie [~peddie@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:06 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:11 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:45 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:40 smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:39 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-71-237-75-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:57 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:10:22 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has joined #lisp 12:10:24 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:11:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:30 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:18 Madsy [~madman@194.19.37.74] has joined #lisp 12:17:18 -!- Madsy [~madman@194.19.37.74] has quit [Changing host] 12:17:18 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 12:22:19 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:23 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has joined #lisp 12:25:12 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:25:55 Joreji [~thomas@93-250.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:27:35 drakma doesn't seem to parse a json result string. the server tells me it's encoded as utf-8, but drakme returns me a list of numbers. i have sb-unicode in my *features* is there anything i'm likely missing? 12:27:57 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:28:11 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:50 if i try to course the resulting list to a string, i get an error, so it does seem like the list of numbers isn't a valid string 12:29:38 though none of them are over 128 12:29:47 * 127 12:31:53 but it does work with code-char... odd, why does drakma assume that this isn't a string? 12:32:20 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 12:32:26 http://www.cliki.net/CloserLookAtCharacters 12:32:59 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:34:08 madnificent: perhaps that's the problem that most none of them are over 127. Most EBCDIC characters are over 127! 12:35:33 "If the message body sent by the server has a text content type, Drakma will try to return it as a Lisp string. It'll first check if the 'Content-Type' header denotes an encoding (charset) to be used, or otherwise it will use the external-format-in (the default is the value of *DRAKMA-DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT*) argument. The body is decoded using FLEXI-STREAMS. If FLEXI-STREAMS doesn't know the external format, the body is returned as an ar 12:37:11 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 12:38:19 splittist: or simply: RTFM. 12:39:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-250.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:40:35 -!- youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:55 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:40:57 youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:00 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:41:04 pjb: you're obviously right btw :) thanks 12:43:12 hi, is there a built in mechanism in iolib to handle timeouts on non-blocking iolib.sockets:connect ? 12:45:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:47:13 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:23 Soulman [~knute@101.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 confab [~seven@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xtkpsejtnxufadbh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:54:46 -!- sharkasgo [~plorasg@oldwww4.internection.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:05 haha [~plorasg@oldwww4.internection.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:28 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.240.243] has joined #lisp 12:56:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:58:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:58:44 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 12:59:10 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has joined #lisp 13:00:24 -!- youguy [~youguy@212.Red-79-156-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:02:35 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:00 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.79] has joined #lisp 13:09:14 astoon [~chatzilla@nat105-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vkjzhjvohwsvnpgh] has joined #lisp 13:12:40 milanj: iolib.multiplex:wait-until-fd-ready 13:15:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:55 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:21 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:18:57 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 13:19:13 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:32 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:03 Katibe [~Katibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 13:23:07 prip [~foo@host134-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:11 -!- Katibe [~Katibe@212.174.109.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:03 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 13:25:21 Katibe [~Katibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 13:26:33 -!- silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC23D7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:22 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:27:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:29:34 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has joined #lisp 13:29:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has quit [Changing host] 13:29:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:35:42 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:36:25 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 13:37:12 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:40:22 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:02 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:06 -!- loke [~elias@bb219-74-91-22.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:02 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-214-78.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:30 youguy [~youguy@77.208.60.58] has joined #lisp 13:42:57 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:43:25 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:44:36 ch077179 [~urs@f052163086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:44:57 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:58 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:21 loke [~elias@bb119-74-97-62.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:46:36 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vkjzhjvohwsvnpgh] has left #lisp 13:49:41 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:49:57 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:45 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:59 tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:50:59 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:37 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has joined #lisp 13:52:41 -!- prip [~foo@host134-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:58 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:56:57 vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:29 pcavs_ [~pcavallar@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 13:57:31 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:57:50 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #lisp 13:59:00 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:16 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:03:38 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:06:08 eli: interesting points. I guess that explains the name-change, the reasons for which I was unaware of. 14:10:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:10:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:10:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:12:39 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.43.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:42 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:13:29 fe[nl]ix, thanks 14:13:30 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 14:13:55 milanj: and read its docstring 14:15:55 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 14:15:58 hi lispers 14:17:40 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:17:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:18:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:19:13 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-121.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 14:19:14 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-121.vodafone.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:19:41 -!- haha is now known as sharkasgo 14:21:20 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has left #lisp 14:21:59 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:22:05 Good morning all. 14:22:46 hullooo 14:23:37 hi 14:24:45 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c6e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 -!- youguy [~youguy@77.208.60.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:42 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 14:32:36 naiv_ [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-4-177.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:33:51 -!- ch077179 [~urs@f052163086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:34:05 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.240.243] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:35:19 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 14:35:55 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 14:36:01 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:49 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-121.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 14:38:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-175-121.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:38:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:42:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:43:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:47:58 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:48:13 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:48:22 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:31 hello 14:50:35 sacho [~sacho@90.154.193.207] has joined #lisp 14:57:41 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:06 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:00:30 jmbr [~jmbr@curio.mat.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 15:05:54 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has joined #lisp 15:08:21 HG` [~HG@p5DC05036.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:34 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:09:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:09:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:10:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:12:09 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:13:08 noogenesis [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:27 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:13:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:13:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:13:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:14:41 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-quclxlcpqxlwgnoo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:14:48 Interviewing soon. Fortunately, with a crowd who doesn't really want a technical interview (I contracted there once, worked with the Tech director, and hired THEIR seniormost eng straight out of college 10 years ago then handed him to them). But it occurred to me, I'd have trouble with questions on "Object Oriented" 15:15:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.121.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:02 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:39 In general, any given software interview may include fishing for OO understanding. I think I've lost it over the years, I used to be really into it but now it seems a muddle. Some "antipatterns seem to complain about things that appear to be good practice. 15:16:35 Bike [~Glossina@wsip-24-120-124-98.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:18 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:19:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:19:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:22:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wsip-24-120-124-98.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:23:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:51 cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:13 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has joined #lisp 15:25:18 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has left #lisp 15:25:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:25:40 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:25:41 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:25:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:25:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:25:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-240.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:26:57 -!- cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:27:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:21 cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:14 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:30:35 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 15:32:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 15:34:08 in my experience, many OO patterns by the GoF solve problems inherent to OO designs.. which to me seems wierd. 15:34:09 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:35:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:35:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:35:32 enupten [~neptune@117.192.87.126] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:07 a few people I've talked to believe you should know all the patterns off by heart and stick to them. 15:37:24 but they're all java and C++ programmers. :) 15:37:27 You might view patterns as being language defects. 15:37:35 In which case, it makes sense. 15:37:41 Zhivago: agreed 15:37:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:57 -!- splittist [~splittist@234-38.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:33 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:44 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 15:42:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:42:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:42:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:44:27 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [] 15:44:44 tR011 [~SrTroll@209.189.232.132] has joined #lisp 15:44:48 sup 15:45:50 *tR011* said sup 15:48:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:48:53 sup 15:48:55 -!- tR011 [~SrTroll@209.189.232.132] has left #lisp 15:49:01 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 15:49:19 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:39 -!- fourier [~user@h-89-19.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:05 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:52:11 fourier [~user@h-89-19.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:52:16 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:29 argh. Is it possible to create a backquote-form that returns a backquote form with commas? 15:55:23 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:37 Yes. 15:56:39 Start with '`(,a) 15:57:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:57:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:57:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:57:04 -!- noogenesis [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:09 or ``(,,'x) 15:57:17 -!- sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:45 CL-USER> ``(,,`a) 15:57:45 `(,A) 15:57:49 ah, I was late 15:57:54 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:57:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:57:55 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:57:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:57:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:44 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:11 -!- loke [~elias@bb119-74-97-62.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:59:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:59:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:00:57 loke [~elias@bb220-255-247-251.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 Is there a way to have a backquote form return a backquote form with embedded commas? 16:01:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:02:08 loke: Did you time out? 16:02:09 17:57:44 < antoszka> CL-USER> ``(,,`a) 16:02:09 17:57:45 < antoszka> `(,A) 16:02:17 No., My ISP killed me 16:02:21 Uhm. 16:02:27 connection was reset 16:03:18 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:22 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-44.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:04:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@216.227.116.248] has joined #lisp 16:05:00 hmm 16:05:04 can't get that to work 16:05:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:06:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:06:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:06:57 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:12 let me explain... I'm having "fun" learning more about backquote and friends, and I do that by attempting to write a macro that will "look like" a defun, but that defines a macro instead. This macro should behave just like the function call, but its arguments should not be evaluated. I.e.: (ndefun foo (x) (print x)), then (foo (1+ 2)) should print (1+ 2) 16:07:27 The very last piece is what I can't get to work: 16:07:33 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:08:17 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 16:09:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122963 16:09:37 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:10:19 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:10:29 Any ideas how to do it? 16:11:22 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: bbl] 16:12:20 you want ,', 16:12:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:12:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:12:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:12:50 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:58 pkhuong: where? 16:13:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05036.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:10 instead of ,,sym. 16:13:21 or, no, never mind. 16:13:36 You just shouldn't put literal functions in source. 16:13:46 I find the antipattern "functional decomposition" to be a troubling read. One could apply that, for example, to most CL library code I've seen. 16:13:55 make-thread takes a "poltergeist" 16:14:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 16:15:25 In C++ culture in the early 90s people would use virtual multiple inheritance for pretty much everything, then backing away. I wonder if the prevailling "antipatterns" decay with it. 16:16:48 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:14 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 16:19:26 loke: I annotated with one way to do it. 16:19:47 -!- fourier [~user@h-89-19.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:01 pkhuong: thanks :-) But it wasn't what I was trying to build 16:21:33 oh wait 16:21:54 fourier [~user@h-89-19.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:22:15 No. it'snot what I was trying to do 16:22:48 basically: (ndefun foo (x) (print x)) -> (foo (1+ 2)) -> should print (1+ 2) 16:23:16 i.e. the ndefun'ed function should behave like a function which doesn't evaluate its arguments 16:24:24 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:48 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:37 pnq [~nick@AC823F7A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:12 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.87.126] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:30:49 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:36:48 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:03 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-104.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:37:27 loke: look again 16:40:24 -!- loke [~elias@bb220-255-247-251.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:42:16 loke [~elias@bb119-74-201-244.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:45:48 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:53 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 16:46:57 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47:26 prip [~foo@kimochi.ath.cx] has joined #lisp 16:48:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:48:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:48:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:49:07 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:49:38 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-darpprdiwdgfmujz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:34 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-214-78.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:59 HG` [~HG@p5DC05036.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:39 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-214-78.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:46 sword [~sword@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:01 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:55:11 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:57:27 kennyd: To temporarily inhibit output to standard output, use (with-open-stream (*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream)) (your-code)) (Which is like (let ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))) (your-code)) but with automatic closing of the broadcast-stream). 17:00:43 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:45 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:02:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:25 enupten [~neptune@117.192.87.126] has joined #lisp 17:05:16 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 17:08:45 enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has joined #lisp 17:09:18 carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.11] has joined #lisp 17:12:20 HG`` [~HG@p579F7463.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:56 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-228.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:22 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05036.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:28 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:46 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.230.200] has joined #lisp 17:25:21 -!- loke [~elias@bb119-74-201-244.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:15 loke [~elias@bb220-255-249-12.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:26:31 *sykopomp* had some fun with compiler macros: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122968 17:26:43 youguy [~youguy@90.168.33.134] has joined #lisp 17:27:09 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 17:29:57 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 17:32:25 -!- youguy [~youguy@90.168.33.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:54 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.230.200] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:35:44 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.230.200] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:43 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:18 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F7463.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:38:29 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:11 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:18 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:45:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:49 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 17:47:00 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-107-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-210-208-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:51:52 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:04 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:54:43 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:22 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:28 Fade: Yes, that confusion was indeed the main motivation for the change. (The new name page says that too.) 18:05:30 sykopomp: too bad it's not conforming (an implementation is free to ignore compiler macros). 18:07:57 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:07:58 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:25 -!- fourier [~user@h-89-19.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:11:08 -!- algorist [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:12:28 algorist_ [~quassel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:14:20 fiveop_ [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-103-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-214-78.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:45 HG` [~HG@p579F7463.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:20 cmm [~cmm@109.65.214.78] has joined #lisp 18:16:57 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-107-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:47 pjb: I'm aware, yes. I was curious as to how well it would work on SBCL. 18:19:05 It's quite limited, too -- SBCL's compiler optimizes away FUNCALLS, so it only works with APPLY (and I assume there's other corner cases if you start going through other higher-order functions) 18:19:20 it also doesn't work through the REPL 18:19:23 but fun nonetheless :) 18:20:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 18:21:07 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 18:21:52 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:21:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:29:35 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7463.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:46 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-188.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:53 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:45:20 Hi all! 18:45:24 hi 18:45:26 hi all! 18:46:04 what does #| |# mean? 18:47:38 comment 18:47:51 can be multi line 18:47:56 -!- SYSTEM_A1MED [~lol@70.234.136.37] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by beer] 18:47:57 thx 18:50:05 -!- kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:51:40 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:22 thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 18:59:54 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:00:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:07 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:02:47 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:03:19 Haha, omg, I just realized why DO takes an end-test instead of a continue-test! 19:04:35 It's because "if the end-condition is true, then execute the result-forms. Oh, and btw that terminates looping too." 19:05:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:05:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 19:06:00 In this way, the second argument to DO is a bit like COND/CASE clauses. I'm glad I finally have a better explanation for this than "they wanted to sabotage DO". 19:06:56 I rarely use the result-forms so I had never made the connection. 19:07:20 interesting 19:08:05 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.87.126] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 19:09:24 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:11:26 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007078.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 19:14:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:15:53 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:17:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC823F7A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:56 hi, where can I find documentation for &req ? I've found nothing on CLHS :( 19:26:30 daimrod: yes, it's not in clhs. 19:27:05 tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:27:22 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 19:27:36 pjb: where it is ? 19:28:20 pnq [~nick@ACA22F96.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:25 It's not in CL. 19:28:59 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:29:05 &REQ is a symbol, just like A or YOUR-GRAN-MA-ON-A-BICYCLE. 19:29:22 oh 19:30:07 thank you pjb. 19:30:11 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:55 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 daimrod: however, you may check LAMBDA-LIST-KEYWORDS, because implementation may provide additionnal keywords beyond &REST &KEY, etc. 19:31:22 daimrod: so it could be an implementation specific one if (member '&req LAMBDA-LIST-KEYWORDS) 19:32:22 pjb: ok, that's why I've found it in a macro definition 19:32:44 daimrod: more probably, a macro use it for its specific purpose. 19:33:04 daimrod: it's rather improbable that an implementation adds specific lambda list keywords.. 19:33:24 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7FB2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:33:49 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 19:35:22 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:25 -!- nullman` [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:36:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22F96.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:37:26 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:40:24 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:41:49 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 19:46:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007078.public.telering.at] has 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[~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 21:24:21 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@curio.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:29 Quick question: is it possible to force NIL to be printed as "()" instead of "NIL"? 21:24:59 I see that it /may/ be printed that way if *print-escape* and *print-pretty* are both non-NIL, but don't see a means to force this to happen.... 21:25:11 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:43 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:52 fourier [~user@h-30-249.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:31:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:31:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c6e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:05 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A1FE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:53 kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:44:40 rpg: (format stream "~:[()~;~A~]" object) 21:44:41 -!- msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-kdgdbprsykwuyhve] has quit [Quit: msponge] 21:44:51 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:14 Hamburger Lisp meeting was nice, by the way 21:45:18 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:45:20 -!- serichse` [~user@hmbg-5f760a8b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:46:45 pjb: Thanks. 21:47:42 rpg: of course, it doesn't work recursively. 21:47:55 It's a little unpleasant to have to do this, because now I have to replace my simple call to PPRINT with something that will recurse over the tree... 21:47:55 And you cannot define a print-object method on nil either. 21:48:04 Yes. 21:48:13 pjb: with-pprint-dispatch.... Hmmmm..... 21:49:36 msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-denwcbuupsnowqxr] has joined #lisp 21:51:16 dispatch tables can do it http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node259.html 21:51:27 Not sure if is really worth the effort 21:52:20 Younder: I think in this case it's likely to be... 21:52:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:13 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 21:53:53 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 21:55:42 Rughalt_Work [~opera@095160126081.warszawa.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:55:47 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:35 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-172-131.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:59 -!- sharkasgo is now known as sharkasgo2 21:57:03 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-172-131.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:09 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:57:15 felideon` [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:08 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:31 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:58:33 smithzv [~smithzv@ucb-np2-129.colorado.edu] has joined #lisp 21:58:36 -!- felideon` is now known as felideon 21:58:40 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@ucb-np2-129.colorado.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-240.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:00 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:13 -!- cheier [~amedueces@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:07:45 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:10:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:00 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:34 pnq [~nick@AC810739.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:10 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.44] has joined #lisp 22:18:40 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:48 SegFault1X [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:17 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:26:06 -!- tauntaun is now known as tauntaun_away 22:26:09 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:11 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:21 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:30 Are there any modern CLIM tutorials (preferably working with McCLIM) you'd recommend? 22:29:36 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:05 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:30:08 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-udwbxpfvfuwkukso] has joined #lisp 22:34:07 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:34:25 zfx [~zfx@host81-153-41-84.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:25 -!- zfx [~zfx@host81-153-41-84.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:34:25 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 22:34:55 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:37:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:38:49 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-159-62.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:03 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.197.44] has joined #lisp 22:40:51 -!- arborist [~arborist@e182021247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:42:26 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:43:11 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:44:07 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 22:47:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:17 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:54:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:42 maxima is a nice piece of software 22:59:09 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.106.225.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:00:02 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 23:00:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c1ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:58 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:03:18 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:17 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-250-59.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:19 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:32 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 23:04:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:05:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:23 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-142-198.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:38 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:10 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:22 -!- pcavs_ [~pcavallar@63.139.127.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:21 rpr [~rpr@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 23:16:44 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:16:55 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.11] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:17:29 (code-char (1+ (char-code c))) <- is there a less verbose way of doing additions with chars? 23:19:16 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:29 rpr: (incr-char c) 23:19:42 rpr: with (defun incr-char (chr &optional (offset 1)) (code-char (+ (char-code chr) offset))) 23:20:15 i know how to write it just didnt want to reinvent the wheel 23:21:21 can one override + - etc operators for char 23:21:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:21:43 no. 23:22:06 sellout- [~Adium@38.121.228.2] has joined #lisp 23:22:54 how come + isn't a defgeneric so you can override it for types that aren't support it by default 23:23:12 rpr: but anyways "+1" for char is meaningless. 23:23:31 rpr: what is the successor of #\r? 23:23:56 (code-char (1+ (char-code #\r))) 23:24:10 And what do you expect? 23:25:05 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:25:33 pjb I don't expect anything, I wouldn't do that for #\r 23:25:58 Then why do you want it? 23:26:01 whatever comes after #\r in whatever encoding you're using. 23:26:27 is there a point to these questions 23:26:41 You could as well do (loop for i below char-code-limit for c = (code-char i) do (something c)) 23:27:07 That is, work initially with codes, if you want to increment or decrement them. 23:28:49 not sure where i said i'm doing it continuously 23:29:04 Im doing it once per char 23:29:26 char being a character from input string 23:29:51 anyway, why isn't + a defgeneric? 23:30:25 seems like something people would want to override often 23:31:01 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:09 rpr: they might want, but most OO practicioners find that we shouldn't. 23:31:13 rpr: mostly because #'+ existed long before generic functions. 23:31:29 ah ok 23:31:31 But, really, same reason we have EQ, EQL, EQUALP, etc. and none of them are generic functions. 23:32:02 a mix of history, and of TIMTOWTDI. 23:32:02 Given the history of when and how generic functions were added to the language, there was never a time when people were agreed that things should be generic by default. 23:32:13 rpr: and you can always (shadow '+) (defmethod + ((a character) (b integer)) (char-code (cl:+ (code-char a) b))) ... 23:32:30 pkhuong: anyone who uses EQ probably doesn't want it to be generic... 23:32:37 but that would break stuff wouldn't it? 23:32:43 shadow 23:32:53 rpr: wouldn't break anything. 23:33:02 interesting 23:33:02 Might confuse the hell out of you or other people reading your code, however. 23:33:08 haha 23:33:14 joker` [~joker@p549187BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:28 f... them :) 23:34:13 pkhuong it's news to me that most OO practicioners find that we shouldn't override +. it's ideal if you want to add new numerical type 23:35:06 rpr: that breaks after quaternions, at best. 23:35:50 pkhuong: how about if I wanted algebraic numbers, say? 23:36:16 in a language there's more room for "new numeric types", due to representation, than in mathematics 23:36:18 kpreid: my-type-of-ring:+. 23:36:46 all I'm saying is that it wouldn't break any assumptions about cl:+ to add such extensions 23:37:00 such numbers, I mean. other than assumptions about types :) 23:37:11 it's nice you can add them though with shadow 23:37:15 Given that the extensions follow the liberties afforded to cl:+. 23:37:26 (handler-case (+ 'a "42") (error () 42)) 23:37:30 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10 -- Are we there yet?] 23:38:36 "For functions that are mathematically associative (and possibly commutative), a conforming implementation may process the arguments in any manner consistent with associative (and possibly commutative) rearrangement. " 23:38:37 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 23:39:26 Add contagion, and frankly, overloading arithmetic in CL is a lot more than a couple of s/defun/defmethod/. 23:39:31 so how is length and equal usually handled then? when creating a new class 23:39:55 just having a different name? 23:40:07 rpr: they're not. SB-SEQUENCE offers support for user-defined sequence types. 23:40:29 and then length works? 23:40:37 rpr: CL in practice often involves a lot fewer things like new collection types than you'd see in e.g. Java 23:41:02 (some of that is of course because it's not made as easy) 23:41:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:41:23 kpreid: then again, the only overloading allowed in Java was for ... string concatenation ;) 23:41:33 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:42:06 pkhuong: I'm talking about stuff-for-which-you'd-override-length, not stuff-for-which-you'd-override-+ 23:42:11 what about equal? you can't use equal and equalp for user defined types? 23:43:04 Well, since (plus a b) (add a b) or (+ a b) are essentially of the same syntactic and lexical complexity, there's little point to override +. (color+ red blue) is as easy as (+ red blue). 23:43:09 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.251.232] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 23:44:45 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.0.238] has joined #lisp 23:44:48 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:45:30 pjb to me override + would only make sense if you write a new numerical type. and if you use foo+ then you can't write a function that can work with any numerical type 23:45:53 for colors color+ is just fine 23:46:17 rpr: but you can write higher order functions! 23:46:43 or, give defaults to your operators and punt to CL's. 23:47:38 pkhuong: you mean, like providing REDUCE instead of providing SUM? 23:48:21 kpreid: or wrapping that with contextl or passing an explicit interface. 23:49:14 is it possible to get equal and equalp working with defclass? 23:49:19 That's the same debate as the haskell way to do instances versus Scala's. + can't be all things to all men, because types aren't enough to disambiguate. 23:49:23 without shadow 23:49:24 rpr: no. 23:49:34 would shadow be appropriate here? 23:49:53 it would be confusing more than anything. Why don't you use another name? 23:50:14 so you can write generic functions 23:50:28 rpr: then use another name. 23:50:41 huh? 23:51:14 if I use another name I can't write generic function 23:51:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@38.121.228.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:37 I don't understand. You can use any name except one that's already taken for a generic function! 23:51:40 sellout-1 [~Adium@38.121.228.2] has joined #lisp 23:51:45 (defgeneric foo ...) is perfectly acceptable. 23:51:56 no i meant generic in the regular sense 23:52:07 pkhuong: yes, but you can use another name that has the same name. 23:52:24 I can't write a function that can compare any two objects if I use something other than equal for my class 23:52:33 rpr: why not? 23:52:57 because equal will only work with built in objects 23:52:57 Just write all the methods you need. 23:53:10 don't use equal then. 23:53:30 (defun foo (a b) (if (equal a b) ; do something 23:53:44 if I could override equal this function would work with any class 23:53:46 don't use cl:equal if you don't want cl:equal's semantics. 23:53:52 you can't. 23:53:57 i can with shadow 23:54:13 no. Try it. 23:54:19 why not? 23:54:29 <_death> rpr: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html please read the section about Equality 23:54:31 There's no difference between shadowing CL:EQUAL and using another name, like MY-EQUAL. 23:54:39 -!- _death is now known as adeht 23:55:11 thanks I'll read that 23:56:11 I've read the scrollback, and I wonder what prevents rpr from doing defgeneric MY-EQUAL with a (t t) implementation that uses EQUAL? 23:56:32 pkhuong if I could safely override shadow (you say I can't?) my class could work with any function that compares two objects, even the ones i didnt write 23:56:37 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:39 loke: There's even a CDR for it. 23:56:43 if I could safely shadow equal* even 23:57:06 rpr: shadowing doesn't do what you think it does. 23:57:20 It simply changes the way the reader translates strings into symbols. 23:57:38 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@38.121.228.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:46 i see, so I'm not actually replacing the function 23:57:48 As other previously read-in forms or functions won't be READ back in, they'll still call CL:EQUAL. 23:57:51 http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/ 23:58:18 kpreid: Xof added some overloading with SB-SEQUENCE. I don't know that anyone used it and managed to correctly implement the interface. 23:58:35 I'm a bit afraid of what doing the same for arithmetic would yield. 23:58:50 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]