00:05:27 -!- Bootvis [bob@baltar.lan.endoria.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:06:25 Bootvis [bob@baltar.lan.endoria.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:43 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.40.122] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:15:17 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.112.79.172] has joined #lisp 00:16:18 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:18:30 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:18:57 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:44 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 00:21:21 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:49 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:41 Cloud_ [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 00:27:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:03 -!- Cloud_ is now known as cesarbp 00:30:16 StrmSrfr: the most portable way would be: (run-program (format nil "bash -c 'cd ~A ; do-something'" (quote-shell-argument directory))) 00:32:08 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:57 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:34:30 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:41:24 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.240.138] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:41:24 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:46:44 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:01 StrmSrfr: pjb is right, though I'd expand and generalise it slightly to (run-program (format nil "/bin/bash -c 'cd ~A && ~A ~{~A~^ ~}'" runpath command (list arg1 arg2... argn))) 00:52:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA308FC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:40 /bin/bash because I've learned not to assume anything about $PATH unless you have direct control over it... 00:53:13 ...and the && to ensure that you only execute the command if you _did_ successfully cd into the desired directory. 00:54:03 -!- rosario [~rosario@p57967816.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:54:04 on a lot of platforms bash is not located in /bin 00:54:22 /bin/sh exists in most places, however 00:54:39 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.22.82] has joined #lisp 00:54:48 You're right: /bin/sh is definitely the safest option. 00:55:48 Of course, you could start armour-plating it with something like "PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin bash -c 'cd ~A && ...'" 00:56:10 fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:07 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.22.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:58:42 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:02 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 01:02:22 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:02:43 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:48 -!- fisxoj_ is now known as fisxoj 01:06:06 rosario [~rosario@p579677F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:06 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:13:49 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:51 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.95] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:19:03 joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:33 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:23:33 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 01:24:30 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:25:20 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:26 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:45 -!- rosario [~rosario@p579677F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:20 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:58 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:16 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:35:25 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.214.43] has joined #lisp 01:37:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:37:42 wes-exp [~user@76-198-128-124.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:42 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.214.43] has quit [Client Quit] 01:40:42 -!- gigamonkey [~user@99.179.45.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:43:19 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Quit: > /dev/null 2>&1] 01:43:31 New to slime and indentation of this is ugly: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122887 01:43:35 what gives? 01:43:49 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 01:44:38 with- 01:46:17 hmm. I see it treats with- differently... 01:47:04 but I can't have all the following lines aligned? is there a good reason why that is the case? 01:48:39 If I have (with-foo (&body body) ...), I get everything aligned. 01:49:02 If you define the macro and have slime connected, it should indent macros correctly. 01:50:28 You are the man! 01:50:37 I fixed my macro and it works now. 01:53:45 jacks- [~jacks-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 01:53:46 hi 01:54:07 how come this has no effect on the passed list? 01:54:26 (defun add-to-list (list element) (unless (find element list) (push element list))) 01:54:39 because you don't do anything to the passed list 01:54:40 jacks-: In CL, just like in C, arguments are passed by value. 01:55:01 jacks-: further, there's no list in lisp. Only chains of cons cells. 01:55:06 i know, but isn't list like a pointer? they are the same lists no? 01:55:16 pjb: not exactly like C :P 01:55:24 Yes, exactly. 01:55:30 jacks-: try: (macroexpand '(push element list)) 01:56:09 oh! 01:56:19 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:56:44 so it just reassigns the local list 01:56:55 There's no list. 01:57:07 what? 01:57:08 It reassigns the local variable. 01:57:13 yes 01:57:15 jacks-: further, there's no list in lisp. Only chains of cons cells. 01:57:24 and it's called `list' 01:57:34 pjb: NIL disagrees 01:58:24 so there's no way to write add-to-list as a function? 01:58:31 None. 01:58:41 there's 01:58:48 Well, you could create a list data type: (defstruct mylist elements) 01:58:52 how 01:59:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:08 Or you could implement locatives. 01:59:20 (add-to-list (& list) element) just like in C... 01:59:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Quit: Offline] 01:59:58 add-to-function is a function in emacs. it accepts a symbol though 02:00:04 add-to-list even 02:00:12 (defun add-to-list (element list) (psetf (car list) element (cdr list) (cons (car list) (cdr list))) list) 02:00:14 can I do this if I accept a symbol 02:00:38 jacks-: but it doesn't work in CL: (let ((l (list 1 2 3))) (add-to-list 4 'l) l) --> (1 2 3) 02:00:55 You cannot do that in CL or in Scheme. 02:01:13 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:17 (let ((x '(1 2 3))) (add-to-list 10 x) x) => (10 1 2 3), voilà 02:01:26 pjb: passing a "nonscalar" in C by value copies 02:01:37 you'll want to return the new list, or use a macro 02:01:54 excelsior1979 [~excelsior@cpe-68-175-63-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:00 (doesn't work for NIL) 02:02:05 pnq [~nick@AC814D5E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:05 StrmSrfr: lies! 02:02:11 although you could use rplacd 02:02:24 but that won't work fol nil either 02:02:46 oGMo: except for small things like arrays. 02:02:53 that worked stassats. let me try to decypher that 02:03:05 jacks-: why don't you want to just write (pushnew element list) ? 02:03:07 stassats it has one problem though, doesn't work if list is nil 02:03:20 jacks-: that's what stassats said 02:03:22 pjb didnt know it exists 02:03:38 rename it to add-to-cons 02:03:42 problem solved 02:03:44 pkhuong: in that case you're passing the pointer 02:03:48 jacks-: it is listed in the See also section of clhs push!!! 02:04:14 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:05:00 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:05:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:17 i wasn't really searching for it, wanted to implement add-to-list from emacs 02:05:39 i don't understand how add-to-list can be a function in elisp but not in common lisp 02:05:55 jacks-: that's because in emacs lisp, there was only dynamic binding. 02:06:10 So the value of variables are stored IN the symbol in emacs lisp. 02:06:19 er? 02:06:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:06:26 However, in scheme or CL we have lexical binding, and the values of variables are not stored in the symbols. 02:06:55 yes, one should adapt to the language 02:08:34 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:19 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:19 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:10:19 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 02:10:22 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:10:22 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:10:23 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:12:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:12:50 -!- Soulman [~knute@101.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:15:35 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 02:15:54 is there a function like append that append a single element instead of a list 02:16:10 (lambda (l e) (append l (list e))) 02:16:23 jacks-: there's always function for anything. 02:17:07 there isn't would suffice :) 02:18:09 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:21 (nreverse (cons element (reverse list))) 02:18:36 haha 02:20:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122889 <- tried to write add-to-list from scratch. any issues? 02:20:28 Yes, a lot. 02:20:30 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20:37 You're too newbie to try macros yet... 02:20:40 Did you try ADJOIN? (it can't append) 02:20:52 what issues does it have 02:21:00 why did you need such an operator? 02:21:25 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:21:36 zort i havent, i tried to write it from scratch 02:21:43 jacks-: (let ((l (list 1 2 3)) (i 4)) (add-to-list (incf i) l) l) 02:22:47 For appending I'd do `(rplacd (last list) (list newelement))' (though I'm not an expert or anything) 02:22:59 jacks-: (let ((v (vector (list 1 2 3) (list 'a 'b 'c) (list '(1) '(a)))) (i 0)) (add-to-list 'd (aref v (incf i))) v) 02:23:36 Compare with: (let ((l (list 1 2 3)) (i 4)) (pushnew (incf i) l) l) and (let ((v (vector (list 1 2 3) (list 'a 'b 'c) (list '(1) '(a)))) (i 0)) (pushnew 'd (aref v (incf i))) v) 02:25:59 first one is caused by multiple evaluation. not sure what problems 2nd one causes 02:26:16 same. 02:26:37 easy fix 02:26:53 Have fun! :-) 02:26:54 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:05 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:27:16 jacks-: what would you use to fix it? 02:28:17 gensym 02:28:29 Not enough. :-) 02:28:42 why not? 02:28:54 Try it. 02:28:56 emacs got to be kidding me, breaking old behaviour and the variable which controls it has an almost 300 lines docstring which is unintelligible 02:29:23 stassats: Why do you think we'd like to rewrite it in Common Lisp? 02:29:38 lexical scoping, of course. 02:29:38 In the mean time, try PortableHemlock, it might be simplier. 02:29:56 overengineering cluserfuck 02:30:03 *clusterfuck 02:31:40 pkhuong: emacs has lexical scoping nowadays 02:32:12 stassats: I know. 02:32:28 almost brought a cake to monnier on that day 02:35:32 pjb: are you joking? 02:35:58 Hemlock needs more users, to improve it. 02:36:26 do you use it? 02:37:14 From time to time. Unfortunately, I use erc, gnus, w3m, org-mode, etc, which means I have to stick to GNU emacs. 02:38:05 good stuff 02:38:58 pjb: you don't have to stick with GNU Emacs, just rewrite all of the aforementioned in lisp 02:39:12 That's why we need more Hemlock users. 02:39:20 or improve existing, beirc, closure, cl-org-mode 02:39:35 you'll be the first! 02:40:04 youre right gensym didnt fix it 02:40:14 Is Hemlock preferable to climacs? 02:40:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122890 <- what else do i need? 02:41:00 Bike: they both work equally unwell 02:41:15 :/ 02:41:26 Bike: depends. Do you need a project or an editor? 02:41:48 jacks-: (macroexpand '(add-to-list (incf i) (aref v (incf i)))) 02:42:04 You didn't modify the list in the vector. 02:42:07 I'm just curious; I'm still enough of a newbie to be fine with emacs. 02:42:09 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:42:35 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:57 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:27 how to fix taht? 02:43:34 jacks-: define-modify-macro defsetf get-setf-expansion 02:44:02 I don't see how pushnew doesn't work for null lists. 02:44:16 nobody said it doesnt 02:44:19 Pushnew works fine on nil. 02:44:25 stassats it has one problem though, doesn't work if list is nil 02:44:27 i was talking about function stassats typed 02:44:47 ohh ok ok 02:44:49 context is sacred! 02:45:01 timestamps too! 02:45:06 or something 02:45:42 you both use trailing # 02:45:49 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:50 \- in your names, and i find that confusing 02:46:11 -!- zort- is now known as zort 02:46:15 for some reason my brain thinks that #\- is more important than other letters 02:46:57 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 02:47:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7381.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:49 stassats: your mind is probably noticing what looks like an unfinished function name, and trying to anticipate the rest. That's what it's doing to mine, anyway. 02:50:07 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:51:41 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:59:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:34 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 02:59:35 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-54-180.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 02:59:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-54-180.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 02:59:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:59:40 -!- fourier [~user@h-202-152.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00:03 cthuluh [foobar@wxcvbn.org] has joined #lisp 03:01:31 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8EDCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:33 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8DC16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:46 psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has joined #lisp 03:06:56 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has left #lisp 03:08:24 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:10:12 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:12:27 gko [~gko@42-72-151-8.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:15 What's the easiest way to kill a running sbcl/slime/emacs lisp? 03:14:02 kill 03:14:22 pkill if you're lazy. 03:14:36 Modius: it probably depends on your platform. If sbcl has lost its terminal and gone rogue, I tend to locate its pid via 'ps -ef | grep sbcl | grep -v grep', then kill the pid. 03:14:38 Or you can hit C-d in *inferior-lisp* 03:14:58 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:04 there's ,sayonara but that might kill more than you expect. 03:15:38 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:51 sudo shutdown 03:16:02 "kill with fire" 03:16:02 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.11] has joined #lisp 03:17:46 jfleming: there's this great thing called zsh, you just do % kill sbcl and it auto-completes the PID 03:18:27 stassats: handy. But I'm happy in my comfort-zone with bash :) 03:19:02 unfair enough 03:19:12 I also have the above-mentioned ps/grep thingy in a shell script, so what I actually type is more like `psg; kill ` 03:19:36 Thanks, all. 03:19:55 jfleming: you mean like pgrep? 03:20:16 stassats: similar, yes. 03:20:28 Is there a multiplatform lib for getting command line parameters for compiled apps? 03:20:52 I realize there's probably too much of a variance between how each does this. . . 03:21:04 Ack - I mean, multi-implementation 03:22:00 stassats: though I got into the habit of using psg long before I found out about pgrep. 03:22:21 (i just use killall usually) 03:22:33 though it may kill more sbcls than wanted 03:22:47 Yeah, it can have some unexpected effects on some platforms :) 03:25:13 like solaris? screw it! 03:25:25 Is "buildapp" currently the consensus way of building an SBCL executable around here? 03:25:39 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:48 Modius: i build it manually 03:25:57 stassats: How can you get the runtime command line args? 03:26:08 sb-ext:*posix-argv* 03:27:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:28:08 Any good libs for picking apart command line param strings, or do you just read them out by hand? 03:28:47 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 03:29:18 i don't use command line arguments for my cl executables 03:29:44 stassats: What would you use to pass in things like port number to a listening server? 03:30:21 if it's just a port number, i'd parse it by hand 03:30:31 BrokenCog [~bc@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:39 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-246.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:32:39 otherwise i'd make something like: (apply #'main-function (mapcar #'read-from-string (cdr sb-ext:*posix-argv*))) 03:32:44 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-225.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:11 and call it ./executable :port 123 03:35:02 and sh fucks up string escaping, something ./executable :port 123 :host '"localhost"' would be needed 03:35:31 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-158-169-26.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:50 totally un-unix-like, but who cares, no two programs use the same command line convention anyway 03:38:46 What an interesting fantasy world you must inhabit ... 03:39:09 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:48:34 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50:42 -!- joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:09 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:49 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 04:04:17 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 04:04:18 It's been a while since I asked a dumb question. Time for another: beyond compact representations of circular lists, what's the actual practical value of #n= and #n# notation? 04:04:25 sharing. 04:05:09 What's the value of sharing? being able to PRINT objects while preserving their structure enough for READ is pretty useful; c.f. persistence layers. 04:05:20 jfleming: obfuscating code 04:05:39 ah, cl-typesetting 04:05:50 right 04:05:54 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:15 *jfleming* digests this 04:07:51 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.203] has joined #lisp 04:07:52 Not sure I get what's being shared with what. Shared references to an object, in a way that allows arbitrary redefinition of the object? 04:07:57 jfleming: compare (let* ((list '(1 2 3)) (list (list list list list))) (write list :circle t) (terpri) (write list)) 04:09:37 Hunden [~Hunden@e180098163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:10:42 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-168.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:10:43 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 04:13:45 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:15:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:16:29 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814D5E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:10 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C16B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:32 Does anyone know how to get a hold of Daniel Herring? He has a fork of ltk (lisp tk) on a svn repo somewhere, and I'd like to figure out how to get it into quicklisp so I don't get my project hooked into custom dependencies. 04:22:50 pnq [~nick@ACA21880.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:09 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B34F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:25:37 vlion: have you tried using a fishing net? 04:26:09 pkhuong: so it'd be more likely used by PRINT on the way out, rather than source code being fed in? 04:26:28 lool 04:27:48 -!- Axanon [~axanon@unaffiliated/axanon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:54 axanon [~axanon@d72-39-21-241.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:55 I've rarely written a ## by hand. 04:28:55 -!- axanon [~axanon@d72-39-21-241.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:28:55 axanon [~axanon@unaffiliated/axanon] has joined #lisp 04:29:29 i've used it for code-golfing 04:33:03 Here was me thinking it was another language feature that I really should have been using all along :) 04:33:26 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-144-116.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:33:28 sometimes it's useful! (: 04:33:28 Thanks; that has definitely helped reduce my level of confusion. 04:33:46 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-144-116.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:14 it's useful for things it should be used, and useless for all other things 04:34:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:02 -!- mikejs [~mike@ec2-50-16-185-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:24 mikejs [~mike@ec2-50-16-185-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 04:43:21 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9D319.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:47:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rjqgbftnzjkyglpy] has joined #lisp 04:55:46 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:00:45 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180098163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:05:48 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:11:03 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:12:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:12:56 Oddly annoying situation - Win32 Putty doesn't seem to pass C-( or C-arrow through, so can't fully use Paredit across ssh tools. Anyone deal with anything like that? I know it's probably an exotic combo. . . (can't use Cmd.exe, it wrecks Alt-tab) 05:13:07 I mean, cmd.exe wrecks alt-space 05:14:18 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:40 rather than use putty, you could run a linux distro in a virtual box 05:15:05 axanon: Haha, ironically, that's what I'm sshing into :) 05:15:12 hah 05:15:47 axanon: Good point though - I can use a linux VM on the PC to SSH to the linux VM on the Mac Mini 05:15:48 set up a second VM wiht linux and ssh to the first from the second 05:15:53 Which is terribly confusing :) 05:16:14 But given that I use a VM to use my insane work VPN, it's technically not really a stretch. 05:16:16 what stassats said :) 05:16:38 MORE VMS 05:21:05 Is there a VM product for windows that can do popout windows like Mac VMWare fusion? (i.e. app window can come out standalone. . ) 05:21:47 i would expect it to do the same on windows 05:22:46 neilv [~user@unaffiliated/neilv] has joined #lisp 05:23:21 -!- neilv [~user@unaffiliated/neilv] has left #lisp 05:31:38 You're right. Well fancy that, using one linux VM to talk to another. 05:32:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.203] has joined #lisp 05:35:46 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 05:49:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:50:21 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:28 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:38 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:04 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:26 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C16B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:57:00 -!- wes-exp [~user@76-198-128-124.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: counting lambdas] 06:00:40 joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rjqgbftnzjkyglpy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:01:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:02:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:03:14 Getting "Error gettaddrinfo: Name or service not known on Ubuntu linux - trying to open a swank SERVER - what could cause that? I don't get how this triggers from listening. 06:03:51 do you have a localhost entry? 06:04:52 pkhuong: Yes, in the hosts file *and* I can ping it 06:06:23 pkhuong: resolve-hostname got a NIL somehow - possible cause there 06:06:45 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:09:57 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:11:45 nostoi [~nostoi@180.Red-80-39-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:04 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-225.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:12:43 Was a build error, needed to wipe the fasls. Still can't connect; but getting further - thanks 06:12:58 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-87-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:08 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@180.Red-80-39-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:23:02 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:23:02 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:23:02 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:32:51 gilligan_ [~gilligan@p4FEA4E97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:30 splittist [~splittist@37.119.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:34:38 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:35:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003a03.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:46 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:37:58 -!- splittist [~splittist@37.119.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:38:05 -!- gilligan_ 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[~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:57:18 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.34.178.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:57:19 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:57:41 ehu [~ehuels@D57D50E2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 08:57:45 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:58:37 KaZ- [~lulz@76.91.18.68] has joined #lisp 08:59:41 -!- KaZ- [~lulz@76.91.18.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:50 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 09:04:48 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:04:50 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.214.43] has joined #lisp 09:05:06 Hi all! 09:05:21 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:07:37 KaZ- [~lulz@76.91.18.68] has joined #lisp 09:07:46 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host 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has joined #lisp 09:44:57 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 09:45:50 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.112.79.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:02 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ohqcngrunqodgfnq] has joined #lisp 09:46:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ohqcngrunqodgfnq] has quit [Changing host] 09:46:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:47:07 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-cjevupmfodbcoegf] has joined #lisp 09:53:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:31 littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:41 -!- littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 09:54:41 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 10:00:32 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:41 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h101n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:11 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 10:07:29 add^_ [~add^_^@h45n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:21 misternc_ [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 10:12:26 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:29 zanea [~zanea@219-89-168-65.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:26:21 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f762d74.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:24 Hello! 10:26:41 yello, serichsen, Bahman 10:29:41 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9CEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:40 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:33:20 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 10:39:20 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:12 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:43:54 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-158-169-26.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:46:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:46:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:46:17 daniel__ [~daniel@p50829A3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:49 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:47:45 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-326-23.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:48:01 pnq [~nick@ACA27226.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:48:02 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B667.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:51:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:51:47 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.98.183] has joined #lisp 10:52:14 Zach is holding a lecture on QuickLisp in the European Lisp Symposium in October. 10:52:33 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.98.183] has quit [Client Quit] 10:53:34 In Amsterdam this year. 10:58:06 -!- ehu [~ehuels@D57D50E2.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:04:30 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:05:04 So it seems. Time to buy shares in Dutch florists again. 11:05:27 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:05:55 qucklisp quicklisp... 11:06:01 why is it so hyped? 11:06:04 European lispers big tulip buyers? 11:06:19 Yes, to offer to Zach! :-) 11:06:20 never felt the urge myself 11:06:32 ah, indeed, he does deserve 11:06:37 everytime I try it anew, I get angry about the fact that ql dumps a directory in my ~ 11:06:41 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9CEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:46 like I asked for it 11:06:54 I'll have to get a proxy to offer mine, not sure I can make the ECLM 11:07:06 el-maxo: You can configure it to store that directory elsewhere. 11:07:21 I wanted to, just clashes with something else 11:07:24 By the way, is there some work being done to couple some documentation with the quicklisp packages? 11:07:26 fourier [~user@h-138-163.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:08:18 serichsen: it's a common request, I think Zach's working on it. 11:09:17 what I am missing is proper asdf integration 11:09:25 I dont want to load stuff through ql 11:09:33 just download to the right place 11:09:35 Of what? QL is totally integrated with asdf. 11:09:50 Once you've quickloaded a system once, you can asdf load it if you prefer. 11:10:24 then what is the difference between ql and asdf-install? 11:10:32 ql works. 11:10:46 el-maxo: it's in the faq on quicklisp.org/ 11:12:01 main difference imho: Improved reliability due to a sick centralized design... 11:12:14 slick 11:12:19 urandom__ [~user@p548A2C5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:36 -!- axanon [~axanon@unaffiliated/axanon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:54 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:13:04 axanon [~axanon@unaffiliated/axanon] has joined #lisp 11:14:01 nope I dont like it 11:14:18 el-maxo, because lisp pkg mgt was such a headache 11:14:34 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27226.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:43 Well, asdf-install is dead, nobody will maintain it and the links it needs. So you can download the git repos and the tarballs yourself if you prefer it. 11:15:00 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:05 install process: (load "some-random-code").... seriously? 11:15:22 so it's not hyped, it's appreciated. Cloud shit is hyped. 11:15:25 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:30 it is cloud shit 11:15:40 http://www.quicklisp.org/ 11:15:52 ql is cloud shit according to yous? 11:16:22 yeah it is a weak app, made accessible for lazy people 11:16:33 got it 11:16:45 *splittist* loves him some lazy 11:16:46 el-maxo: make something that's better, please, thank you 11:16:58 I liked using asdf-install... 11:16:59 It's not an application. 11:17:09 If you want an application, you're not in the target audience. 11:18:12 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:18:12 MORE LAZY 11:18:34 ...good lazy of course 11:18:51 (ql:add-to-init-file) <- BAD lazy 11:19:13 I do that, I'm BAD though 11:19:16 it's second only to hubris as a programmer virtue 11:19:28 *splittist* starts to moonwalk 11:19:31 why do I need to run an init script for ql anyways? (require 'ql) should do the trick 11:19:33 el-maxo: why do you want to use add-to-init-file? Edit your own initfiles yourself! 11:19:52 el-maxo: don't say that to us, say that to implementors. 11:20:01 el-maxo: why would you need to use a pre-programmed lisp? write your own! no, sorry, that doesn't scale. 11:20:25 this is going to degenerate quickly 11:20:32 :) 11:20:39 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:20:41 I just think that QL is creepy 11:20:52 simple solution... 11:20:58 don't use it 11:21:03 solved 11:21:12 anyhow 11:21:16 glad to be of assistance 11:21:18 hehe 11:21:32 for the record everyone should use QL 11:21:43 its lispy awesomeness 11:21:48 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:02 el-maxo: Do you know "Reflections on Trusting Trust"? 11:22:12 how is it possible that my backtrace says: 5: (foo), 6: (bar), even though, bar does not call foo directly 11:22:20 flip214: no 11:22:33 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-109-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:35 can I get a more complete backtrace somehow? 11:22:38 *That's* creepy ... http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.4096&rep=rep1&type=pdf 11:22:44 el-maxo: perhaps tail call optimization? 11:23:04 dang :D 11:23:05 use (declaim (optimize (debug 3))), that should turn off tco 11:23:09 has he made clear what impl he's using? 11:23:16 sbcl 11:23:19 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 11:23:29 JuanDaugherty: can't you see it from where you are? 11:23:44 I just right-click on his name and see "SBCL user" 11:23:51 vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:08 how? 11:24:09 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:24:38 tele-kinetic-pathetic feature ;-) 11:24:52 flip214, not clear what client you are talking about but that's not what xchat shows 11:24:59 *flip214* hopes to have more lucky guesses 11:25:13 it shows Max Rottenkolber (believe it or don't) 11:25:30 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jytpbebsvtsgojzk] has joined #lisp 11:25:32 jeesus 11:25:50 you never know where you drop your real name haha 11:26:24 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:26:24 JuanDaugherty: you need a better chat client, preferably with password filter 11:26:41 good afternoon 11:26:47 hi mvilleneuve 11:27:18 flip214, acknowledged, yello mvilleneuve 11:28:27 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:28:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:31:30 -!- misternc_ [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:45 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jytpbebsvtsgojzk] has left #lisp 11:34:36 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:34:41 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 11:41:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:43:27 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46:59 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:48 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:38 -!- gilligan_ [~gilligan@p4FEA4E97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:51:35 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:51:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:51:36 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 11:51:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:51:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:52:48 (case nil (nil) (otherwise t)) 11:52:57 => t 11:52:59 why? 11:53:03 Because. 11:53:05 clhs case 11:53:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm 11:53:16 proper cuntish innit 11:53:29 el-maxo: Just like you with ql. 11:53:40 Check the syntax. 11:53:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:54:54 MoALTz__ [~no@92.18.22.233] has joined #lisp 11:56:09 of course... more parens is always the solution :D 11:56:25 Exactly. 11:56:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:58:11 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-2-121.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:59:32 Indecipherable [~IceChat7@41.30.213.245] has joined #lisp 11:59:42 -!- gko [~gko@42-72-151-8.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:06 gko [~gko@111.81.75.175] has joined #lisp 12:00:28 What is &key used for? 12:00:37 :keys 12:00:46 keyword arguments I guess 12:01:14 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:01:20 (defun hello (&key (name nil)) 12:01:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:02:03 (format t "Hello~a" (if name (format nil " ~a." name) ".")) 12:02:22 then (hello :name "Joe") -> Hello Joe. 12:03:13 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:03:23 Interesting. Thanks 12:03:47 like a tagged argument 12:04:04 much like &optional 12:04:35 oh... When a function can take any number of arguments, is it called "arbitrary"? 12:04:56 I think its &rest 12:05:11 no, but saying "function takes an arbitrary number of arguments" is common 12:05:29 *el-maxo* never used &rest... strange 12:05:44 &rest is the way to specify that a function takes an arbitrary number of arguments 12:05:55 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:19 el-maxo: (format t "Hello~@[~:( ~A~)~]." name) 12:06:40 Indecipherable: variable arity. 12:07:24 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 12:07:25 (defun foo (&rest args) (apply #'bar foo args)) (defun bar (via &rest args) (list :bar-called-via via :arguments args)) 12:07:26 So to make a function that lists all arguments, will it be somethin like (defun foo (&rest) (list &rest)) ? 12:07:32 pjb: he would have never ever been able to parse that in his head :D 12:07:39 lol 12:07:48 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:07:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 12:07:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:07:51 because I aint 12:08:12 Indecipherable: read a book. http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ # is a good one 12:08:20 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:21 it is indeed 12:08:25 can only recommend 12:08:41 The one by PG ? 12:08:46 nope 12:09:00 I like On Lisp too, but its more for the nerds 12:09:11 Indecipherable: a function that simply returns all its arguments as a list would be (defun foo (&rest arguments) arguments) 12:09:34 em [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:39 -!- em [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:09:39 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:10:30 pg has some strange notions and an idiosyncratic style -- not an example to emulate when writing common lisp. go right ahead and emulate him when thinking about making money or creating hype 12:10:44 Oh, I have this one 12:11:10 Had to save each chapter manually because I couldn't find the pdf version 12:13:08 -!- Indecipherable [~IceChat7@41.30.213.245] has quit [Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...] 12:13:49 Joreji [~thomas@71-143.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:14:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:22 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:59 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:16:50 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:10 daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-326-23.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:20:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:20:25 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-326-23.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 12:21:07 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.214.43] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 12:21:15 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:21:16 daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-326-23.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:22:22 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:22:22 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.89.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:25:50 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:15 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:28:47 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:29:01 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 12:29:35 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:21 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.75.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:31:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:31:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:00 gko [~gko@42-72-151-8.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:38:41 -!- gko [~gko@42-72-151-8.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:22 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:55 rosario [~rosario@p5796754E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:12 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:17 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:38 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:43:41 Hi, slime (or more precisely swank) shuts down immediately: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122895 (emacs 23.1, sbcl 1.0.40, slime 20100605) -- any idea? 12:44:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:46:42 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:48:21 rosario: I'm going to guess at an encoding issue. Any clues from the slime-events buffer? 12:49:08 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:03 splittist: this is all it contains: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122895#1 12:50:47 longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.74] has joined #lisp 12:51:33 jacks- [~jacks-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 12:52:25 hello. are slime questions topical in here or would #emacs be the right channel for that? 12:52:45 rosario: Haha, just dealt with that myself. Fix coming. . . 12:53:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:54:11 Modius: that's on an ubuntu-based GNU/Linux, they broke something there, I guess. Usually I work around it by compiling everything (including emacs) myself... That's nasty though. 12:54:23 +distro 12:54:32 em [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:41 -!- em [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:41 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:55:36 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 12:55:38 hi lispers 12:55:58 rosario: http://pastebin.com/wiFPVyxj <-- you put that somewhere after you (require 'slime), and it'll work around the problem. 12:56:00 I'll leave it to Modius, but are you setting your swank:*coding-system* to something like "utf-8-unix"? 12:56:44 splittist: In my situation (Also ubuntu), shell-emacs-only, it was the dont-close to t that worked around the problem. 12:56:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:56:50 For me, the failure was non-deterministic. 12:57:24 Fair enough. I hope the fix is deterministic (: 12:57:44 rosario: That hack replaces a function in slime.el solely to get the indicated change. 12:58:06 Thank you, Modius 12:58:20 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:56 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 12:59:21 iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:2e10:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has joined #lisp 12:59:22 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:57 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:03:28 -!- fourier [~user@h-138-163.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:38 fourier [~user@h-138-163.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:06:20 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:07:23 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:08:05 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:10:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:11:18 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:22 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:13:30 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:13:39 rosario: Did it work? 13:13:46 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:21 What is the easy way to calculate the length in characters of the string needed to express the base 10 representation of a positive integer N that I always forget? 13:14:48 Print it to a string and then see how long it is? 13:15:24 that might not be very easy 13:15:52 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:53 (length (format nil "~D" N)) looks pretty easy to me. 13:16:25 it sounds expensive 13:16:29 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:16:36 patto [~patto@58.246.147.166] has joined #lisp 13:17:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 13:17:22 longfin_ [~longfin@1.108.104.115] has joined #lisp 13:17:26 I don't remember that being a criteria. 13:18:06 Zhivago: you are correct that that is pretty easy. 13:18:41 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:43 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:18:58 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:59 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@1.108.104.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:50 longfin [~longfin@1.108.126.244] has joined #lisp 13:20:10 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:20:14 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:20:28 Maybe you want log 10 or something? 13:21:40 (1+ (floor (log n 10))) might be it 13:22:00 this would be a lot easier if integer-length took a second argument 13:22:03 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 13:22:33 -!- patto [~patto@58.246.147.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:23:06 oh, maybe it should be (ceiling (1+ n) 10) 13:23:20 I'm not sure if those are different somehow 13:23:52 I mean, obviously they're different, but they seem to give the same results for positive integers I've tried 13:23:53 sure as hell isnt the last one 13:24:09 oh integers, alright 13:24:19 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 13:24:55 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 13:25:32 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25:33 -!- yroeht_ [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:25:41 now for real numbers, that would be an interesting problem 13:26:16 well, it would be fun to solve; the answers would probably be pretty useless 13:26:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:26:41 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:26:51 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:59 this number requires 4 billion characters, this number can't be printed, and so on 13:28:08 Daedelus [6f45f94b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.69.249.75] has joined #lisp 13:28:21 hi 13:29:07 Are we here to talk about lisp? 13:30:16 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.108.126.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:19 Are we here to sit silently through our cups of instant coffee instead? (About lisp.) 13:31:38 I dont know... 13:31:40 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:44 so many questions 13:31:45 Daedelus: I don't much like instant coffee 13:31:45 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:31:48 Hopefully, if you have nothing interesting to say. :) 13:31:57 Do you have questions? 13:31:59 Good film 13:32:02 yes 13:32:05 Wait, wait, are you the one with the answers!? 13:32:07 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.246] has joined #lisp 13:32:07 when I come here I usually start a rant that everyone disagrees on ;P 13:32:20 I'm starting to notice that 13:32:34 its not on purpose!! 13:32:34 good, I am looking for someone to disagree with (my brother) 13:32:38 el-maxo: you've used your rant quota for today 13:32:40 pnq [~nick@ACA22299.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:46 okay... 13:32:49 enjoywater [enjoywater@124.49.52.209] has joined #lisp 13:32:51 I ain't a programmer, thought I would learn lisp for a lark 13:33:03 whats a lark? 13:33:06 I don't think quicklisp is inherently centralized; I think Xach has been trying to get other people to start repositories 13:33:07 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:33:19 el-maxo: for fun 13:33:24 it's a type of bird, I think 13:33:28 My brother, who is some kind of hotshot engineer says when I'm finished playing around I should go learn C or something instead 13:33:40 You should. 13:33:48 Can you give me an example of Lisp's relevancy today? 13:33:51 I never had fun programming its more like a cheap trance drug with pleasant outcomes fromt ime to time 13:34:04 maybe that is fun 13:34:05 Lisp will help you to think differently. 13:34:10 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:34:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:34:10 You should also learn prolog. 13:34:19 a lot of chickens will do anything for a bird 13:34:29 Zhivago, I should go away and leave you in piece, or it really is a better idea to learn C or python or something 13:34:35 *peace 13:34:40 It depends on what you want to achieve. 13:34:48 C is pretty awesome too 13:34:51 You should learn C and lisp. 13:34:53 I do not want to acheive anything 13:34:56 Do you want to understand programming, or be a factory worker? 13:35:03 Then do nothing. 13:35:13 jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:35:16 Programming is like music. 13:35:26 Only do it if you want to put in the time and suffer the consequences. 13:35:31 I will take understand programming then 13:35:42 If it is just a half-arsed interest, then don't waste your time. 13:35:53 if you want to have fun, it will depend on what your idea of fun is 13:36:06 Well, I've read 110 pages of a slightly outdated book so far 13:36:13 Daedelus: do you want to learn lisp to annoy your brother or for a small bird? Certainly if you dedicate yourself to lisp you may become a Smug Lisp Weenie, which should annoy anyone you want to. 13:36:14 writing linked list code in C was fun the first time 13:36:18 maybe even the second 13:36:19 Then lisp is worthwhile learning, even though you're unlikely to use it commercially. 13:36:20 Only a few hundred left 13:36:33 The same applies to prolog, which you should also learn. 13:36:51 C is mainly about byte sequence manipulation and undefined behaviour. 13:36:56 splittist, obviously for the bird 13:37:03 Zhivago: and getting stuff done 13:37:06 It is not particularly difficult or interesting, beyond that. 13:37:11 what is prolog? I don't know. 13:37:24 I suggest that you find out. 13:37:31 Anyway back to my original question 13:37:52 Does anyone have anything interesting and current to read about lisp? 13:38:16 Rather than wikipedia saying "back in the day, we were so great for AI" 13:38:20 you could try to read lisp 13:38:22 I suggest that you read the original lisp paper and then try implementing it. 13:38:27 the day evidently being the 60s 13:38:36 Implementing a small lisp is a small project. 13:38:38 -!- enjoywater [enjoywater@124.49.52.209] has quit [] 13:39:00 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:39:09 Reading and typing at the same time is so hard 13:39:34 em [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:39 -!- em [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:40 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:40:05 You could try paying someone to do it for you. 13:40:25 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:40:34 Pay someone else to read and type at the same time? I guess SOMEONE has to do it 13:40:55 Zhivago, do you find learning several programming languages also gives much benefit to non-computer-programming activities? 13:41:09 Was Dr Zhivago a book, play or movie first 13:41:26 Actually, in mother russia, it was romantic comedy 13:41:41 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9CEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:50 Smirnoff's line was "...Soviet Russia" 13:42:05 Euthy: It depends on if you want to pick up hot chicks or not. 13:42:13 I believe learning to program is wasting your own mind in a big way 13:42:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:24 if you dont actually program then its really pointless 13:42:36 Larks flock to lispers, I think we've established this if anything 13:42:40 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:05 So, y'all do this as a chore to pay your way through this mortal coil 13:43:13 interesting conversation 13:43:15 I at least feel like my mind is more twisted now 13:43:16 there is not a shred of romance 13:43:17 Zhivago: How do you mean? 13:43:48 Euthy: There are skills associated with programming that cross over into other areas. 13:44:12 where other areas are matrix-like projects for world slavery 13:44:15 Euthy: Particularly those involved in planning and coordination. 13:44:22 I knew it!! 13:44:25 matching your paren.s 13:44:28 hahaha 13:44:34 Zhivago: are you serious when you say that about learning prolog? 13:44:39 raz: Yes. 13:44:45 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:46 I find this an odd area of discussion. I work in an area (enterprise) where the level of programming skill would be described by the kind of people who learn programminng as an interest as tragic; but everyone still gets paid. 13:44:48 Zhivago: fine, I'll have to try that 13:44:53 The best thing I learned through programming was the upsides of decentralization 13:45:12 Zhivago: Where does chicken enter the picture? 13:45:21 Amadiro [~Amadiro@p5DC9DBF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:33 Euthy: Via the degeneration of dinosaurs. 13:45:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:45 :) 13:45:47 lol 13:45:55 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.96] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:45:56 Sure, they're smaller, but they can fly 13:46:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:46:40 what sort of thing do you do recreationally with lisp 13:46:53 What's an example project 13:46:57 if you call that flying 13:47:08 Daedelus: wtf 13:47:41 Daedelus: Write lisp systems. 13:48:14 Is system a clear, distinct thing I am unaware ofÉ 13:48:16 http://common-lisp.net/projects.shtml 13:48:18 ? 13:48:24 most of these were probably done recreationally 13:48:29 Zhivago: What are some examples of such skills? 13:48:34 a lot of them were probably abandoned recreationally as well 13:48:55 thanks for link 13:49:13 a lot of lisp programmers seem to like programming in lisp though 13:49:37 Euthy: Cooking. 13:49:47 so you get weird things like cells 13:50:14 sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:19 I don't think the cells guy had any particular practical application in mind 13:50:36 on the other hand people have complained about the opposite problem 13:50:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:51 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:2e10:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:50:56 that someone will be writing a practical application, need a library, and ust write the 80% of the library that they need 13:51:03 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.96] has joined #lisp 13:51:14 mine currently has three exported functions :P 13:51:17 Dae: Perhaps javascript would be more your style. 13:51:33 Zhivago: What could one transfer over to cooking, that wouldn't be obvious without programming experience? 13:51:42 easy, casual and current you mean 13:51:58 hmm 13:52:05 I will look into it 13:52:15 I have another question 13:52:24 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:53:03 Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation -- too old ? 13:53:09 no 13:53:43 haha 13:53:48 I love the title of that one 13:54:00 Euthy: Well, it's a concurrent task management with complex resource and time dependencies, scaling to distributed systems at the higher ends. 13:54:24 Euthy: And dealing with unreliable subsystems and error prone protocols. 13:54:37 Euthy: Just the kind of problem that a good programmer should be competent at. 13:54:48 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ - strong opinions, bearing in mind I'm a non-programmer? 13:55:08 I haven't looked at that one yet 13:55:10 Isn't Scheme better suited to a complete beginner? 13:55:14 Dae: I was thinking more along the lines of "popular and practical". 13:55:20 Scheme is fine. 13:55:40 Zhivago: I like the way you look at things. :) 13:55:42 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22299.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:16 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:56:23 Javascript is actually fairly close to lisps, except that it lacks macros, and is a bit dirty. 13:56:41 fiveop_ [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-106-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:51 its not 13:56:53 My brother said lisp looks nuts compared to the languages he knows 13:56:59 I develop js 13:57:09 I swear it is not like lisp 13:57:12 Dae: Your brother is probably horribly ignorant. 13:57:31 He is a fancy engineer, I think 13:57:35 Dae: So what? 13:57:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:51 Have you met many horribly ignorant fancy engineersÉ 13:57:54 ? 13:57:57 Dae: Yes. 13:58:03 Daedelus: Why do you want to learn Lisp of all things? 13:58:04 Oh, ok. 13:58:08 the channel is full of em ;) 13:58:28 Dae: There are a few popular languages that all look the same. 13:58:40 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:45 If you've only dealt with those, then lisp would look strange. 13:58:47 Really. Playing go -> Old joseki -> "Elegant weapons... for a more civi..." -> xkcd -> lisp -> hey why not 13:58:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:58:54 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:54 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:58:59 But for that to be the case, you'd have to have a horribly narrow scope of experience. 13:59:08 Ah. :) 13:59:20 el-maxo: Just add generic functions. :) 13:59:33 ewwwwww 13:59:37 Scheme sort of saved me from giving up on programming. I'm not sure how much I would've appreciated it as a first language, though. 13:59:38 I dont do CLOS ;) 13:59:54 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-109-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:55 no seriously OO in JS is fucked... 14:00:23 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:01 el-maxo: Just add C3 linearization. 14:01:30 Zhivago: Through what roads did you enter Lisp-land? 14:01:51 What I like about JS is the {"key": value, ...} data structure 14:01:56 Okay, enough for me to think about. thanks Zhivago, max, euthy, guy with lots of sss, everyone 14:01:56 its useful 14:02:11 :) 14:02:13 Euthy: I forget, to be honest. 14:02:38 Oh. 14:02:42 Wait, no, I want to hear this story also. Wrack your brains! 14:02:56 Well, I was younger and stupider. 14:02:59 Yes! Or just make something up! :) 14:03:08 I think I just read about it and then started with xlisp. 14:03:09 I should hope you were younger! 14:03:31 I was interested in AI and operating systems. 14:03:53 And I had a number of stupid ideas about both, which I wanted to explore. 14:03:54 So, pre-common-lisp? 14:04:06 What kind of ideas? 14:04:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:13 It was around; I just wasn't using it. 14:04:32 Well, I thought that transparent persistence and distribution and not having processes were good ideas. 14:04:42 iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:9627:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has joined #lisp 14:04:48 I've since come to realize that I was completely wrong about those three. 14:05:24 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:05:41 Ah, maybe a sad ending, but steeped in wisdom of years 14:05:50 Now you apply yourself to cooking! 14:05:52 So, naturally, I thought that writing an OS in lisp would be a good idea. 14:05:58 I really am going, tata. 14:06:13 It isn't a particularly bad idea, but doing it for those reasons is. 14:06:32 -!- Daedelus [6f45f94b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.69.249.75] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:07:29 Hm. 14:08:02 Is that dream lost now? What with the end of PCs and all. 14:08:23 I think about a lisp OS sometimes too... 14:08:25 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 14:08:32 It's more that those are bad ideas. 14:08:48 Instead of that, you should be looking at a multitude of virtual machines. 14:09:14 ended up writing a "web-os" in lisp for my personal use instead because I am way too stupid to design a real OS 14:09:16 Each of them separate in the way that processes are. 14:09:22 I meant an OS in Lisp, or is that also a bad idea? 14:09:34 Well, it's largely a waste of time. 14:09:45 If you consider the OS to be "what provides your virtual machines". 14:09:58 Right. Hm. 14:10:04 I mean, do you really want to spend 5 billion man years writing drivers for toasters that no-one uses? 14:10:18 Zhivago did! :) 14:10:30 Or would you rather just write a couple of drivers to handle posix devices? 14:11:25 Hm. So, what dreams do you have now? 14:11:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:57 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:12:03 I'm more interested in distributed computational systems. 14:12:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:41 And also in language. 14:12:58 easyE [KROWo8XJzg@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:19 Can you elaborate? 14:14:02 In getting systems to understand one another. 14:14:27 Intelligent machines? 14:14:52 Comprehensible machines. 14:15:12 Aren't they now? What do you mean? 14:16:18 My dictionary only says "able to be understood." 14:16:30 To the extent that you can model them. 14:16:56 Soulman [~knute@101.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:57 They generally don't try to model what is talking to them. 14:17:06 Hm! 14:17:25 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:17:30 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:17:32 personally I really like what was done with Plan B and Octopus 14:18:14 *p_l|backup* even has an idea to somehow move that into mainstream computing through a startup, though not as pure as the original 14:18:26 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:18:27 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:18:33 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:19:12 Zhivago, where are things at right now, in that regard? And what is the specific subject called? 14:19:15 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 14:19:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:20:02 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:20:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:20:03 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 14:20:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:20:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:20:33 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:9627:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:22:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.203] has joined #lisp 14:22:30 Euthy: Probably under "agents". 14:23:39 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:24:40 Zhivago: Thanks. 14:24:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:56 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:25:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:25:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:25:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:27:22 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31:27 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:31:41 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-133-102.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:19 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:32:28 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:34:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.203] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:34:16 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-87-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:34:32 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:20 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:38:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:38:25 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 14:39:40 add^_^ [~add^_^@h45n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:46 Anyone use Clozure, and perhaps Gnuplot? I can't get Gnuplot to plot some data from my 14:39:46 program, even though the same command works fine from the command line. I'm doing this: (run-program "gnuplot" '("-p" "-e \"plot 'data' using 1:2\"")). 14:41:28 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:29 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h45n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:29 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 14:42:19 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-14.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:43:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:43:48 try (run-program "gnuplot" '("-p" "-e" "plot 'data' using 1:2")) instead 14:44:29 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:49:29 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:31 nope 14:49:31 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:50:12 can you get ls or echo to work? 14:50:48 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 14:50:53 logs saved 14:50:53 er, where are their outputs supposed to go? 14:51:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:51:22 It's not a big deal actually, I'll just have to manually plot the data after running the program. 14:51:37 sounds better anyways 14:51:43 in my opinion 14:52:18 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:52:27 zort: OS X? Try specifying the full path the gnuplot; the environment for your terminal and for CCL (or emacs) aren't the same. 14:52:37 Debian 14:52:53 then change OS, quick!! 14:52:54 ;) 14:53:02 use windows 14:53:07 Oh, der, that fixes it. 14:53:07 im kidding I never used debian 14:54:04 Well, check your dot files. You might not be setting your PATH up where you want to. 14:54:42 yeah you need the full path to the executable 14:54:53 el-maxo: no, you don't. 14:55:19 I do 14:55:45 That's not what the manual for CCL tells me. 14:56:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:56:31 I use sbcl 14:56:38 zort doesn't. 14:57:22 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:57:26 And you might want to explore SBCL's fine manual to find :search. 14:59:59 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 15:02:31 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:06 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 15:03:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:05:44 cheier [~chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:53 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:09:53 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:10:17 em 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prin1 and princ? I get them confused easily. 17:51:14 tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:53:06 zort: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/2cdc4d3323d979d4 17:53:43 uhh 17:54:42 obscure o_O 17:55:02 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 The etymology of computer terms is, often. 17:55:51 I mean the explanations are... far-fetched? 17:56:01 intricate? 17:56:41 zort: check the sources of LISP 1.5: ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/pub/free/develop/lisp/lisp15-0.0.2.tar.gz 17:57:48 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:57:50 princ prints characters (human readable text). prin1 prints one object (readably). print terpri and prin1. terpri terminates printing. 17:59:51 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-326-23.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:01:49 cools [~user@CPE0026f32ba2b0-CM0026f32ba2ad.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:07 -!- jacks- [~jacks-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 18:17:00 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:17:02 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.120] has quit [Changing host] 18:18:45 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:20:58 joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:35 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:05 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:24:21 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:12 -!- sshirokov [~sshirokov@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Quit: ZRC hit the fan!] 18:32:22 sshirokov [~sshirokov@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 Mete- [~a@201-89-128-105.nhoce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 18:39:23 -!- Odditus is now known as Oddity 18:39:53 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 18:40:03 is there any way to see lisp documentation within emacs and slime? 18:42:21 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:42:45 n2kra [~n2kra_ham@ool-45733acd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:26 razieliyo: install w3m, download a copy of hyperspec, and configure hyperspec.el (afaik included with slime) to use it 18:43:37 ok, thanks p_l|backup 18:46:22 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:06 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:50:00 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:50 sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:31 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 18:53:47 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:53:51 jplows [~jplows@95.146.157.56] has joined #lisp 18:53:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:56:47 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 18:57:05 -!- vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has left #lisp 18:58:05 razieliyo: M-x slime-documentation-lookup RET 18:58:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:29 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-99-223.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:52 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-2-121.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 19:04:24 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:05:02 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:10 -!- Younder [~john@145.234.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:11:08 Younder [~john@145.234.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:12:30 -!- jplows [~jplows@95.146.157.56] has left #lisp 19:12:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:10 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:15:29 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:08 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:34 cesarbp [~cbp@189.139.13.154] has joined #lisp 19:22:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:28:23 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8260D9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:31:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:21 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7859.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:27 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 19:32:54 benny [~benny@i577A2548.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:04 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:04 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:59 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 19:40:42 -!- heow [~heow@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:02 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:45 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:44:47 This may sound like an emacsy question but it is more to do with lisp usage. Any paredit users - to varying degrees, the paredit-slurp-barf stock controls seem to have trouble going through SSH clients or term windows that I use. Have you ever had to remap them, and have you remapped them to something cool? 19:44:54 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:45:37 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:45:44 add^_^ [~add^_^@h120n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:44 And a more generic emacs-lispage question - when defining some useful editor command to C-c + ? or C-x + ? combo, are there any conventions you tend to follow in choosing a good combo? 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[~bahman@2.144.214.43] has joined #lisp 20:40:08 -!- gko [~user@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:40:57 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:36 ldh [~ldh@static-217-37.vpn.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:43:22 -!- ignas [~ignas@78.63.105.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:46 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:36 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-248-186.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:58 pnq [~nick@ACA22EC7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:20 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-248-186.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:50:15 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:50:40 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 20:51:52 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:53:17 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:28 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:55:02 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.99] has joined #lisp 20:57:36 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.139.13.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:06:25 -!- tic [~tic@83.249.196.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:07:19 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:08:50 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 21:11:58 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:12:29 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:14:42 stupid question: is there a good way to write comments about variables in binding lists? because if you put the comment on the same line as the variable the comment likely won't fit on the line, and if you don't put it on the same line then it isn't clear which variable it's talking about. 21:16:08 On the line above? 21:16:37 What about the very first variable?! 21:17:29 zort: on the line above. 21:18:03 a-ok, convention is nice 21:18:08 I'm wondering what sort of comments are needed that (a) can't be largely incorporated in the actual variable name and/or (b) included in a description of the algorithm in a function-level comment/docstring 21:18:30 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:18:38 It's a mystery. 21:20:56 zort: then surely ;?????? fits on the same line (: 21:23:19 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:27:08 _8david: hey, eliott johnson just patched cxml to support the acl mlisp edition (: 21:27:17 seems all it needed was a good downcasing in places 21:29:36 I figured as much! 21:29:37 -!- taiyallica [d8c385bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.195.133.189] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:31:59 "elliott" - damn those repeated vertical lines (: 21:34:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:42:43 lispm [~lispm@g224125195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:11 how many acl clients still insist on 'm'lisp I wonder? 21:44:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003a03.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:48 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f762d74.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:47:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-23.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:56 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 21:49:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:31 cesarbp [~cbp@189.139.13.154] has joined #lisp 21:51:40 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:52:31 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:52:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:55:19 antifuchs: what? 21:56:00 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.139.13.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:11 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:23 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:42 elliottcable: I miscounted the number of #\ls required to correctly spell "elliott" 21:56:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:56:53 antifuchs: heh 21:57:10 that there's a #\i right after makes it worse (: 21:57:10 ellliot is a good name. 21:57:12 er, elliott. 21:57:18 eliiott. 21:57:24 whaaaaa 21:57:34 elilott 21:58:32 splittist: the m is more popular than I'd have expected 21:58:43 splittist: that our docs prefer it might be a factor 22:00:22 -!- gravicappa 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xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.99] has joined #lisp 23:26:03 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:26:21 pjb: I reiterate that (notevery (function null) list) != (some (function identity) list) ! 23:26:43 I mean, are not semantically equivalent and interchangeable ;P 23:27:01 (let ((list '(1 2 3))) (values (notevery (function null) list) (some (function identity) list))) 23:27:55 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 23:28:32 Which is clearly what you meant in the original context. Touché? ;P g2g. 23:28:36 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:28:43 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 23:29:38 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:06 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h116n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:32:33 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:05 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 23:34:32 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC048EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35:25 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:48:28 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:30 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.41.224] has joined #lisp 23:56:09 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:21 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp