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Keep it crispy, folks.] 00:09:06 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:30 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11:27 whee [~whee@misplaced.smaertness.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:03 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:13 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b945c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:20 -!- Guest17877 is now known as taiyal 00:16:15 Not sure how much this is lisp-interest; but hunchentooters may know - when putting a hunchentoot behind a proxy that alters URL requests, what tricks do you use to augment the URLs sent back for things like links to files on the local server/webapp? The referrer, or is there something better? 00:16:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:16:45 I tend to use absolute urls... 00:16:57 (comfigured with a defvar of course). 00:16:59 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.2] has joined #lisp 00:17:13 dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:17:54 Modius: depends on proxy - I recall fusss experimenting with that 00:18:20 pjb: You mean have the server know about the proxy/be preconfigured to know? 00:18:22 Modius: some proxy will accept a response with a specific header as redirect to some file too 00:18:49 p_l|backup: Any verbage I can use to look that up in google without going astray? 00:19:42 Modius: well, yes. This "knowledge" being embodied in the urls. 00:19:59 Modius: depends on what is your goal 00:21:46 if it's simple assets, I recommend setting up subdomains like asset{1,2,3,4}.mywebapp.tld have a function that would cycle through the numbers in predictable way, then configure those subdomains as vhosts on your proxy 00:22:20 and you can translate URLs through simple text substitution if needed 00:22:28 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-174-62-239-154.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:07 -!- dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 00:23:30 dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:23:36 -!- dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 00:23:44 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:24:13 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 00:24:19 dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:24:27 -!- dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 00:24:34 p_l|backup: I'd like it to magically work. And a pony, and world peace. I think, for what i'm doing, wrapping all urls in a call wouldn't be murder. 00:24:54 Technically, they're already autogenned from just a couple of places. 00:25:12 dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:25:43 -!- dayvan [~dayvan@200-161-113-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:03 Modius: #U"u/r/l" read as #.(url "/u/r/l") and do any processing you need in URL. 00:29:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440648.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:30:39 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:30:56 -!- jikanter [~Adium@adsl-99-136-194-188.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:59 i am coming in on the tail end here but I use nginx as a proxy and in my hunchentoot code i use urls like "/web-site-prefex/ home/ 00:31:16 Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 00:31:25 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has joined #lisp 00:33:22 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:34:56 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439932.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:35:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:58 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:39:11 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:40:16 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.2] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:42:18 I was explaining some ideas in programming http://i.imgur.com/ViPQB.png 00:42:21 am i good or what 00:44:04 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:46:03 -!- rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:47:54 excelsior1979 [~excelsior@host-216-220-114-135.dsl.bway.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-62.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:54 scode_ [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-62.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.2] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.2] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:54 dboswell` [~user@64.55.42.6] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:47:57 splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-69-219.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:48:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:03 -!- dboswell [~user@64.55.42.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:09 -!- cpc26 [cpc26@pilot.trilug.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.105.253.191] has joined #lisp 00:48:14 cpc26 [cpc26@pilot.trilug.org] has joined #lisp 00:48:21 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:48:27 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:32 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-227.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:37 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:41 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:44 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:48:44 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:47 Qworkescence: :) 00:48:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.105.253.191] has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:50 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:07 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.105.253.191] has joined #lisp 00:50:18 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:45 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:13 -!- spiaggia` is now known as spiaggia 00:55:14 any body here running emacs24 with slime successully? 00:58:12 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h118.103.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:58:12 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:58:28 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-240-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 01:03:07 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.242] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:03:41 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has joined #lisp 01:03:53 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:04:01 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 01:04:11 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-240-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 01:08:00 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:32 Modius: I'm coming in *really* late on this, but I've abandoned any idea of making it work automagically, and explicitly generate fully-qualified URLs that are correct when called from the outside (i.e. the client). 01:10:20 jfleming: Yeah, I'm starting to see that. One out I'm looking for though is adding a header to the http request that is forwarded, if that is possible - then have the webapp, if it finds that header, append it to all response links. 01:11:20 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-148-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:39 Modius: if you're using apache on the front, via mod-proxy, X-Forwarded-Host and X-Forwarded-Server are your friends. 01:14:02 jfleming: How can I configure thoes? Do I need mod_proxy_http installed as a separate step? 01:14:49 Modius: you'll want mod_proxy_http, yes - http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html#x-headers 01:15:10 jfleming: Do they automatically go in just from installing mod_proxy_http? 01:15:16 apache just automatically adds them when it acts on a ProxyPass directive 01:15:55 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:56 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:15:56 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 01:17:38 I haven't had to touch this on my server in ages, so had to go check it out all over again, but I've compiled in mod_proxy and mod_proxy_http, and simply use ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse. 01:17:40 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:18:17 Actually, that latter one's pretty good for automagically reworking URLs, IIRC - you'll want to check that out as well, in case it solves the problem at hand. 01:18:32 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has joined #lisp 01:18:47 jfleming: Confused - I have LoadModule proxy_http_module there already but not getting the headers - what else should I be doing? 01:19:54 Modius: the request is definitely being forwarded through a ProxyPass directive to an HTTP URL, with Hunchentoot on the far end of that URL? 01:20:10 jfleming: Yes; but I am using ProxyPass 01:22:10 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:42 jfleming: Looking at the requset headers in Firebug, no extended headers 01:22:55 -!- excelsior1979 [~excelsior@host-216-220-114-135.dsl.bway.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:16 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:23:34 Odd. It *should* be adding them. I'm supposed to be working right now, so can't dig into it as deep as I'd like right now, but I'd be happy to look over your apache configs and see if I can spot the problem this evening. Of course, that may be a bit longer than you really want to wait. 01:24:43 One last thing I'll throw in for now, though, is the ProxyPreserveHost directive, which may give a more convenient solution: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html#proxypreservehost 01:25:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:09 -!- Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:50 jfleming: It's obnoxious I'm just not getting those extra headers 01:34:54 Must be some config thing 01:36:41 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:41 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-25-57-247.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:41 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:42:28 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:41 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:45:36 Modius: sorry might be point out the obvious. Have your checked the apache logs? 01:45:36 -!- lonstein_ is now known as lonstein 01:45:49 s/point/pointing 01:46:33 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:46:54 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:47:59 huangho [~vitor@201-34-117-195.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:51:19 groundnuty [~orzech@elj74.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:55:23 entrix [~entrix@95-28-76-87.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:55:50 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:55:56 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:50 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:41 Kenjin: Actually, I'm taking a path I think would work even better for my purposes - a custom requestheader added by the proxy. 01:58:28 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has joined #lisp 01:58:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:58:53 Modius: ok :) just thought I'd mention the logs because when we're at it for some time, the obvious places slip about :P 01:59:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6056.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:04 Kenjin: Very sound advice though - I'll get there (Linux/web config knowledge). Enterprise MS shop monkey here, have some new tricks to learn. 02:00:53 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:13 pkhuong: I challenge you to writing this in CL http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1295544154/1-40 02:02:28 Modius: long-time linux/apache monkey here, so I'm happy to help :) 02:03:28 marcus [~marcus@159.226.148.132] has joined #lisp 02:03:48 -!- marcus is now known as Marcus 02:03:51 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B57C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:02 hehe I remember my college friends just rolling their eyes on me building yet another kernel :P 02:04:50 pyrony [~epic@174-144-239-239.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:57 It's weird the huge rift - no overlap in tools or personnel. 02:05:27 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B814.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:06:12 Qworkescence: the last post is awsome :P 02:10:09 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:10:14 -!- Demosthenex 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[~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:25:19 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has joined #lisp 02:26:31 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 02:28:45 -!- dboswell` is now known as dboswell 02:29:26 -!- dboswell [~user@64.55.42.6] has left #lisp 02:29:38 oh wow, I haven't been on /prog/ in years 02:30:31 also, not too hard with threads 02:32:49 Fade: unfortunately, I'm currently getting a very weird error while bringing clucumber up to the latest cucumber version. no idea what's going on here )-: 02:34:04 thread my anus! 02:35:22 /prog/ has an unexpected number of Common Lisp users, that being >0 02:38:07 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:39:22 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:39:49 -!- pyrony [~epic@174-144-239-239.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41:32 -!- huangho [~vitor@189.30.2.149] has quit [Ping 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[~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:55:00 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:24 gko [~gko@42-72-225-51.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:36 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:02:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:33 centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:45 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.26] has joined #lisp 04:11:29 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 04:14:57 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:15:43 Is it possible to implement recursion-capable defun in a lisp-1 on top of lambda and variable binding form, without relying on dynamic lookup on the function name at runtime? 04:15:56 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.121] has joined #lisp 04:17:04 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 04:17:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:17:33 Yes, with the y-combinator. 04:18:55 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:30:25 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:42 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:49 am0c [~am0c@119.197.56.94] has joined #lisp 04:39:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:40:27 bhaug [~user@96-26-56-18.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:30 Guest66565 [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:19 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:43:32 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:44:29 benny [~benny@i577A2476.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:44:32 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 04:44:36 -!- lundis [~lundis@gprs-prointernet-ff916a00-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:23 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC840AEE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:31 lundis [~lundis@gprs-prointernet-ff916a00-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:00:45 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-240-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:02:48 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:04:13 What's the current "state of the art" for Lisp docstring to documentation tool? 05:07:57 -!- Guest66565 [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:08:30 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:19 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:13:58 maden [~maden@dsl-199-102-156-186.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 05:14:10 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:00 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 05:21:25 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 05:23:58 -!- bhaug [~user@96-26-56-18.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:03 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:22 beach [~user@116.118.11.52] has joined #lisp 05:28:42 easyE: I don't know, but I know that I think that's the wrong thing to do. Perhaps the other way around is better. 05:30:34 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 05:31:15 beach: Well, I want to set up some sort of correspondance for a CL implementation codebase, so "docstring" means comments in both the implementation language and Lisp source. 05:31:39 I think the answer is "roll my own" with cribbing from declt. 05:32:05 easyE: What does "correspondance for a CL implementation codebase" mean? 05:32:23 easyE: And what does a "comment in the implementation language" mean? 05:32:34 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: awwwaaaaay] 05:32:38 easyE: FWIW, I think "comment" and "docstring" are two totally different animals. 05:32:52 beach: sure. A category error on my part. 05:33:10 Ah, OK. 05:33:15 hello lispers 05:33:21 But I have source code comments with a regular annotation that I want to snarf into the manual. 05:33:35 Fade: yay, got it to work. unfortunately, now you have to ship a .wire file with your tests, too 05:33:54 "source implementation language" would be the implementation lanugage of Common Lisp, which is Java in my case. 05:34:39 kiuma: Mornin' 05:40:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@host85-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:34 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:45:04 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-199-102-156-186.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:48:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:49 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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has joined #lisp 07:45:49 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-4.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:46:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:47:28 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-105-4.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:00 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.254.199] has joined #lisp 07:50:21 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-89-213.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:22 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:50:39 Hi all! 07:51:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756445.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:44 BrianRice` [~water@174-31-157-30.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:35 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-51-249.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:36 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 07:56:22 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:00:34 peterhil` 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[~user@116.118.8.216] has joined #lisp 12:18:07 cesarbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 12:20:02 -!- beach [~user@116.118.11.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:21:16 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.33.227] has joined #lisp 12:21:47 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:21:59 -!- zanoni [~zanoni@189.2.128.130] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:22:45 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 12:24:11 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.75.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:00 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:08 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-181-105.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:28:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:28:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:18 -!- cesarbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:29:21 what is the meaning of the topic? 12:29:40 specifically #1=(programmable . #1#) 12:30:21 taiyal: It's a circular structure, written in the standard common lisp reader/printer format. 12:30:32 taiyal: #1=(programmable . #1#) is a CL reader syntax for infinite list of "programmable" 12:30:35 timjstewart1: The other cons cell point to the first. 12:30:50 taiyal:  12:30:54 Tabfail :( 12:31:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:31:49 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:43 That's quite GEBian a topic. :-) 12:33:05 dask_ [~quassel@92.101.160.155] has joined #lisp 12:33:10 Metacircular, yeah :) 12:33:13 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.163] has joined #lisp 12:33:19 Or whatever was the word he used in GEB. 12:33:33 what's GEB? 12:33:46 taiyal: the most important book of the XXth century. 12:33:47 Gödel, Escher, Bach, a book. 12:34:30 I wouldn't exaggerate, but yeah. Certainly worth getting acquainted with (and I'm not through yet). 12:34:40 I'll check it out, I think I have it in PDF 12:34:59 I don't exagerate. Name any other book more important? 12:35:01 time to go to work, I'll be idling in here later under the nick "taiyallica" probably 12:35:49 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:36:15 pjb: Kaputt by Curzio Malaparte. 12:36:17 Posterdati [~tapioca@host52-175-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:36:37 pjb: Obviously a silly answer for a silly request. There are tonnes of extremely important books in XX cent. literature. 12:37:13 Whatever book you happen to need at any given moment. 12:37:23 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756445.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:56 Zhivago: this is not what defines the importance of a book. That would be the instantaneous importance. You need to integrate over time. 12:38:20 What I'm saying is that in 500 or in 1000 years, the only book they'll cite from the XXth will be GEB. 12:38:41 You're wrong. :) 12:38:43 Can't bet you on that one, but certainly not. 12:38:59 It will probably be Mad Magazine or Playboy. 12:39:16 Or the bible. 12:39:16 or Zippy the pinhead. 12:39:25 No. Zippy didn't print that much. 12:39:33 The bible is the most important book of the 1st century :-) 12:39:49 Except it's older for the most part ;) 12:39:58 It's probably one of the few books that will survive another 500 or 1000 years. 12:40:14 Which is required to be able to cite it. 12:42:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:42:21 -!- CallToPower is now known as C_l__o___er 12:42:43 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:43:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:46:14 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:53 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.254.199] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 12:49:21 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.254.199] has joined #lisp 12:53:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2F12D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:55:10 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:57:37 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:58:26 -!- naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-73-83.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:41 -!- C_l__o___er is now known as CallToPower 13:02:27 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:54 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:06:16 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:08:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:09:35 is there a hook for slime inspector mode? 13:10:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.222.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:13:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:14:52 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:02 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:03 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.9] has joined #lisp 13:16:10 taiyallica: no one calls it LISP anymore 13:17:47 but it's a natural consequence of the data structure 13:17:49 centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 there's not much use for them these days, though 13:19:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:23:12 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:23:37 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.254.199] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 13:25:36 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 13:25:47 antifuchs: did the spec for cucumber change? 13:29:13 tic [~tic@83.249.196.40] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:47 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:58 centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:46 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0108.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:36 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-16-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:32 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:03 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:51 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:55:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:51 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 13:57:03 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:00:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.9] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:00:36 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:31 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 14:03:33 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:09 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:10 I have set up so that slime inspector is popped up in a new frame (using special-display-buffer-names). But now i also want to make the font smaller, but doing it by (add-hook 'slime-inspector-mode-hook (lambda () (text-scale-adjust -1))) makes the frame not appear until emacs receives a key press or mouse click. can anybody here help? 14:05:45 my emacs-fu is surely lacking 14:05:47 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:13 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.125] has joined #lisp 14:10:25 probably a dumb question, but is there any way to configure slime-redirect-inferior-output to be true when slime starts up? 14:12:48 hmm, looks like my problem is related to using text-scale-adjust; if i do it in slime-repl-mode-hook the repl buffer also does not show up until i press something... 14:13:54 sykopomp: I guess slime has a hook to which you can add that... 14:13:58 ok, looks like problem is solved by using (text-scale-decrease 1) instead of text-scale-adjust 14:14:40 jdz: perhaps #emacs is of more help, as it seems to be a generic question. Not that I know much about it. 14:16:07 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:13 madnificent: what do I add, though? :\ 14:16:19 yeah, i was just thinking that somebody else here might want to try doing what i'm doing 14:16:51 sykopomp: (lambda () (setq slime-redirect-inferior-output 1)) ? that'd be my guess 14:17:51 I don't think it's a variable. 14:18:03 ah 14:18:38 it would be handy if , right now , someone that knows what they're talking about would jump in 14:19:38 :D 14:21:31 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:22:13 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.9] has joined #lisp 14:24:41 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-204-200.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:03 sykopomp: from the comments here http://measuringmeasures.blogspot.com/2010/01/agony-of-clojurehadoop-logging-and-how.html ... 14:28:04 "Why not just call slime-redirect-inferior-output to redirect output to *inferior-lisp* to the REPL? You can easily add a hook to slime-connected-hook to call that function once slime is connected." 14:28:13 comment is near the end 14:28:17 not sure if that helps 14:28:37 my slime-fu is a lot weaker than my google-fu, hehe 14:28:50 sykopomp: .swankrc or something, I assume. 14:29:10 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:26 i have (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) in my ~/.swank.lisp if that is relevant 14:31:48 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-39-76.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:32:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:34:33 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:35:03 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:04 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:37:53 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:16 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 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like an easy fix on the cucumber side. 14:50:35 I think it is - but this way is actually cleaner (: 14:50:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:15 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-40.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:52 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:00 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-16-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:59:15 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:02:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.248.164] has joined #lisp 15:07:43 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.248.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:02 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:09:08 BlankVerse 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[~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:51:14 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:52:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:52:08 cesarbp [~cesarbol9@189.139.96.168] has joined #lisp 16:53:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:24 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-30-57.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:14 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-aulcxkalbnpnwtjs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:58:12 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.210.25] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2476.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:21 slime-highlight-edits should highlight an entire defun or similar when you edit :P 16:59:33 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:48 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:03:26 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0108.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:32 carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.52] has joined #lisp 17:06:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-99-191-3-109.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:01 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439932.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:53 benny [~benny@i577A246F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:53 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:32 add^_ [~add^_^@h128n8c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:38 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:12:53 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:55 -!- ^micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.] 17:15:16 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:44 oGMo: It also doesn't show if I have deleted something... 17:15:50 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 -!- Guthur [c0c1748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.116.142] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:16:26 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:47 bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.182.237] has joined #lisp 17:20:17 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:29 I'm trying to make the list circular. shouldn't this work? (setf (last a) a) 17:23:45 "undefined function setf last) 17:24:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:54 (setf (cdr (last a)) a) should do it, but people usually use nconc for that, I think. 17:25:12 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 (notice that last returns the last pair, not the final cdr.) 17:26:34 loke: that's why it should show the defun 17:26:35 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:29 yes I see it now 17:28:14 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:28:16 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:28:47 ok works. btw is it legal to change (setf l '(1 2 3))? (nconc l l). or do I have to use list 17:28:59 It is undefined. 17:29:08 Don't mutate literal data. 17:29:12 I.e. use LIST. 17:29:17 okay 17:29:42 same is true for (setf s "foo") ? 17:30:06 Yes. 17:30:29 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 Well, that's fine. But don't mutate s afterwards. 17:31:02 is there any other literal that's immutable 17:31:12 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:14 Probably #(1 2 3) 17:31:46 And of course the ones that actually *are* immutable, such as characters and numbers. 17:33:01 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has joined #lisp 17:34:08 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:37:02 HG`` [~HG@p5DC0513F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:51 daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:37:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:38:34 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:39:09 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:36 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:57 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:14 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05749.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:20 (setf (nthcdr 2 l) nil) <- how can I do this properly? getting "undefined function (setf nthcdr)" 17:40:32 daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:41:25 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:26 lol nm, forgot cdr again 17:41:40 (setf (cdr (nthcdr 2 l) nil)) 17:42:41 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:30 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h128n8c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:47:39 a cons is a pair 17:47:55 live it, learn it. :) 17:54:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:00 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-99-191-3-109.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:22 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:57:32 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:52 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-subnrjgvezlyflkd] has joined #lisp 17:59:22 centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:54 irc_ [jockc@faeroes.freeshell.org] has joined #lisp 18:00:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:51 anyone tell me where in the CLHS the reader macro #1= #2= is covered? 18:01:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:47 irc_: 2.4.8.15 and 2.4.8.16. 18:02:01 pnq [~nick@ACA2056C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:12 awesome thx 18:04:13 -!- irc_ [jockc@faeroes.freeshell.org] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.210.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:05:26 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633534.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:06:21 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.182.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.193.252] has joined #lisp 18:09:02 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 18:09:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.193.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-75-23-56-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:02 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:07 general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:30 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:40 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:15:46 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:15:59 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 18:17:22 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 18:18:34 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@adsl-75-23-56-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.251.116] has joined #lisp 18:21:22 jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:01 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:16 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:26:05 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:26:35 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:11 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.251.116] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:32:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.229.182] has joined #lisp 18:33:49 enthymeme [~kraken@76.91.206.81] has joined #lisp 18:36:51 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:53 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDCEC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:57 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2056C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:47 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-62.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 18:41:05 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 ramus [~ramus@99.44.153.47] has joined #lisp 18:45:30 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:49:38 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 18:50:24 fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 18:52:19 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:53:15 -!- cesarbp [~cesarbol9@189.139.96.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:48 -!- lundis [~lundis@gprs-prointernet-ff916a00-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:17 -!- nacheal [~nacheal@121.8.210.12] has left #lisp 18:54:19 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.229.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:55:41 pnq [~nick@ACA22B8E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:21 daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:57:44 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.232.51] has joined #lisp 18:58:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:56 fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:01:16 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:05:05 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:09 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-71-232-17-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:18 why doesnt this work? (typep (vector 1 2 3 4) '(vector (unsigned-byte 8))) 19:06:40 because it's a type of (simple-vector 4) ? 19:07:31 Guthur: this works fine(typep 3 '(unsigned-byte 8)) 19:08:03 so does (typep (vector 1 2 3 4) '(vector unsigned-byte)) 19:08:19 (typep (make-array 4 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-contents '(1 2 3 4)) '(vector (unsigned-byte 8))) => T 19:08:34 bit more long winded though 19:08:38 plorasg [~plorasg@oldwww4.internection.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:41 its a wonderful day 19:08:55 plorasg, indeed 19:08:59 Guthur: hm, perhaps that'll do 19:09:29 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:11:36 lundis [~lundis@gprs-internet-ff13ee00-18.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:12:40 Munksgaard, if you read the last paragraph you'll see why the first method didn't work http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_vector.htm#vector 19:13:20 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:26 gr 19:15:42 Guthur: Okay, i guess that makes sense. Thanks for helping out. 19:15:57 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:16:32 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:16:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:16:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:17:44 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 19:18:45 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:45 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:18:45 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 19:19:04 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:21:28 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0079.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.232.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:22:17 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:24:13 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 19:26:29 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:28:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:30:27 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.211.79.121] has joined #lisp 19:31:34 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.211.79.121] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:09 -!- SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:09 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-71-232-17-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:43:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:43:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:21 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:21 any of you guys doing the ICFP this year? 19:43:29 er IFCP 19:43:30 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:43:52 ah, it started in france. I guess I was right the first time. 19:46:05 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:43 jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:32 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:54 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-44-149.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:50:04 HG``` [~HG@p579F7BD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:11 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC0513F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:00:25 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:47 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:03:27 Fade, what is it? 20:04:03 oh wait I assume The International Conference on Functional Programming 20:04:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:15 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 20:04:27 yeah 20:04:54 the initialism always trips me up because I sub "contest" for "conference" and then disorder the string. :) 20:05:07 hehe, would love to go just to visit Tokyo again 20:05:24 you don't have to visit tokyo to participate in the contest. :) 20:05:29 ok 20:05:32 oh* 20:05:44 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 20:05:46 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:54 http://www.icfpcontest.org/ 20:07:14 the contest itself is hosted every year by the previous year's winning team. 20:07:37 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 20:08:18 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:08:50 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:12:40 markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-166-164.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:46 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:07 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:14:21 dralston [~dralston@174.1.92.214] has joined #lisp 20:16:16 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.52] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 20:16:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:17:50 Fade, so does it start tomorrow 20:19:24 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 20:22:57 Xach: How often should I call VECTO:STROKE if I'm drawing a bunch of rectangles. After each one. After all the ones I want stroked in the same color? 20:24:50 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:25:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-204-82.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:42 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:26:49 -!- dralston [~dralston@174.1.92.214] has left #lisp 20:28:11 Whats the best way to do multiline documentation strings? 20:28:47 just... keep writing? 20:29:05 oh, you don't mean function/object documentation? 20:29:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22B8E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:45 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 -!- twbd [~willem@91.177.102.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:17 twbd [~willem@91.177.102.102] has joined #lisp 20:36:12 stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:02 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:11 pnq [~nick@ACA385C3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:41 Landr: Yeah, like so http://paste.lisp.org/display/122696 20:37:46 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0079.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:02 Munksgaard: (defun foo () "blah blah RET blah blah RET RET blah blah" ...), eh? 20:39:16 huangho [~vitor@201-34-119-82.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:39:28 Munksgaard: just don't end the string, simple :> 20:40:23 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122696#1 20:41:56 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0079.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:16 But then i would get ugly documentation strings, wouldnt i? Like so: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122696#2 20:43:19 should i just not care? 20:44:06 Landr: ^ 20:45:15 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 20:45:52 o_O well, why are you writing code directly in the REPL? 20:46:22 Landr: I aint, but i might want to check out the documentation for a function in the REPL. 20:46:44 hypno: Yes, but i want to avoid lines getting really really long. It looks ugly and isn't good style. 20:46:57 afaik, the doc-strings are quoted verbatim. format your doc string beneath the function and you'll be happy? 20:47:33 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-166-164.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:48:15 doc-strings are just for clarifying, use actual comments to explain code in detail 20:51:29 Landr: In this particular case i just want to explain the format of the (3) arguments to a function, but maybe a doc-string is the wrong method for that? 20:52:39 hypno: yeah i could. It's just that i think it's a shame that either the string in the code or the docstring from #'documentation gets wrongly indented :-) 20:55:37 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-205-150.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:47 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:57:04 Munksgaard: I mentioned the same issue yesterday. 20:57:26 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:39 Perhaps a read macro is the right solution: #D" ... " 20:58:11 Munksgaard: sounds overly pedantic to me. a doc-string is something else than code anyway and i dont think it needs (or necessary should) be formatted after the code. i suppose you could either make an enter after the first " or create a reader macro and go all out with tagging and whatnot... 20:59:04 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.253] has joined #lisp 21:00:30 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 21:00:59 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:01:40 hypno: Ha ha, yeah, you might be right. I guess i'll do anything to postpone the actual code 21:02:15 s/postpone/postpone writing/ 21:04:07 listener [~listener@109.175.51.48] has joined #lisp 21:04:17 what is a difference between lisp and haskel 21:04:37 lisp isn't strongly typed? 21:04:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633534.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:04:53 unless you want to at least 21:05:20 listener: i think you're better off researching both languages on the net than asking here. 21:05:27 Younder [~john@145.234.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:06:10 listener: i asked myself that question 21:06:30 listener, why don't you let both have a chance ? 21:06:31 is haskel really more functional 21:06:47 listener, yes 21:06:56 functions in lisp are not first-class? 21:07:30 Munksgaard: multiline comments with special syntax are better choice for documentation, use docstrings to provide succint referense that can be used in REPL, not like Python's docstrings 21:07:38 listener: it's not that 21:07:42 listener, yes. It is side effect of variables in Lisp that make Lisp less functional than Haskell 21:08:06 listener: Haskell is all about being close to a certain specific mathematical formalism turned programming language 21:08:17 listener, The big difference between these 2 languages is ( ) 21:08:20 Lisp was actually pragmatical till Scheme 21:08:38 Lisp is a multi-paradigm language It supports applicative, imperative and OO styles 21:08:38 p_l|backup: lol 21:08:40 (and even Scheme could be called pragmatical, just for different goals) 21:08:51 lisp is EXACTLY a mathematical formalism turned programming language 21:09:15 but with more success 21:09:28 drdo: yeah, but it accepted some leeway that wasn't allowed in "pure" language like Haskell 21:09:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:56 are math-close programming laungages really the root of it all 21:10:03 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440275.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:10:05 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756445.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:18 drdo, NO, It was in based on Lambda Calculus in the first version. But in the last 50 years it has wandered a lot away from that. 21:10:45 -!- excelsior1979 [~excelsior@cpe-68-175-63-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:10:53 listener: Root how? Programming languages have been a sort of compromise between mathematical and engineering concerns since before Lisp. 21:10:56 Incidentally Haskell also compiles to a form of Lambda Calculu 21:10:57 Lisp was more like "look, we can adapt that into something useful to talk about symbolic programming" that got implemented due to a comment from a student, while Haskell had a team of academics with a dream of statically typed, proofed programs 21:11:07 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 21:11:25 end result: haskell is used (even) less than lisp :> 21:12:01 fortunately, Haskellers are at least pragmatic in intended use, instead of Dijkstrianism of "I don't care if it runs, I care about proof" ;) 21:12:30 the haskell people are quite pragmatic 21:12:39 root as in do you really want to base everything on mathematical concern 21:12:55 i think the haskell ppl are more comunicative 21:13:05 p_l|backup, It was ML that was written to write program verifier software. Haskell was more interested in using lazy evaluation to create more efficient code. 21:13:05 drdo: yes, they are coming more from the applied mathematics branch rather than theoretical ones 21:13:12 Haskell isn't entirely based on mathematical concern, or else people wouldn't code video games in it. 21:13:20 Younder: true, but Haskell does take after ML 21:13:21 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:23 p_l|backup: they play around a lot with different stuff in GHC 21:13:42 drdo: I know, but they keep a little to those roots :) 21:13:43 lisp can code videogames 21:13:51 Bike: What does that have to do with anything? 21:14:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:09 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0079.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:12 *p_l|backup* recently started using haskell to relearn Maths properly 21:14:19 but video games are a by product of simulations and every language wants to simulate something 21:14:31 p_l|backup: and does it work? 21:14:43 drdo: I mean that thinking of Haskell as a "purely mathematical" language isn't right. 21:14:53 Bike: Define "purely mathematical" 21:14:58 I have no idea what you are talking about 21:15:08 I'm guessing at what listener means. 21:15:17 Landr: I think so. I just started, though 21:15:22 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-137-68-81.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:41 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:49 so is lisp more general use 21:16:11 or is it just more appropriate 21:17:49 listener, it's more playful to program in lisp than in haskell 21:18:35 foocraft [~ewanas@dyn-86-36-35-124.qatar.cmu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:18:36 I'd say both are useful, both can be general use.. they are just fit for different styles 21:18:45 my recommendation is to learn both :) 21:18:48 not if you dont have auto brace closer :) 21:19:24 Emacs can do it for you 21:19:40 i know :) just thinking of the different programming hells 21:20:14 thinking sometime is useless, throw yourself into it , experience it 21:20:34 that's the easiest way 21:20:37 :p 21:20:48 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:56 morphism, :) or the hardest.... but i agree! 21:21:03 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:21:11 thank you for patience and explanations.... 21:21:49 good luck ,and have fun with your choice 21:21:53 listener: I sometimes write Lisp without any paren-matching... 21:22:01 bid you fare well... gota se a man(girl) about a bed..... 21:22:07 after sometime, parens disappear in reading, anyway 21:22:14 p_l|backup, gota damn well remmember them all 21:22:18 bye... 21:22:21 -!- listener [~listener@109.175.51.48] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:40 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:22:43 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 21:26:19 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-jnbzkzizekophhrc] has joined #lisp 21:32:34 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:25 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 21:34:11 jewel_ [~jewel@196-210-187-4.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:34:23 GNU PDF gives new meaning to Greenspun's 10th 21:34:46 ? 21:34:56 they linked GCL to it? 21:35:07 21:35:21 http://www.gnupdf.org/Lib:Roadmap 21:36:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA385C3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:37:09 pnq [~nick@ACA2EC6B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:34 drdo: ... they couldn't find sufficiently constrained licensing for a JavaScript ngine? 21:39:55 p_l|backup: GPL is nice, no GPL bashing 21:41:26 drdo: I'm not totally against GPL ( I find it fine for applications). It's just that GNU-related teams somtimes give me the vibe "GPL or Die!". ANd JavaScript engine is the only thing that would warrant that roadmap unless they dcided to write a completely new language just for GNU PDF 21:41:41 so it's more GNU bashing, but not GPL bashing ;-) 21:42:31 I have no idea what they are doing, asked on the mailing list 21:42:39 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:57 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:44:21 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-154-251.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:46:05 centipedefarmer [~centipede@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:25 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:48:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:49:06 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-4.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:49:51 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has quit [Quit: out] 21:49:53 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:46 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-44-149.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:54:23 francogrex [~user@109.130.76.156] has joined #lisp 21:54:28 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:00 -!- HG``` [~HG@p579F7BD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:48 milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:59:43 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:00:07 jdz [~jdz@host61-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:02:30 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:00 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-34-119-82.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:23 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:53 huangho [~vitor@201-41-1-53.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:05:51 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:05 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:07:09 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:00 in sbcl or common lisp, is there a way to load different parts of one file as if they were two files? 22:08:33 tcr1 [~tcr@89.108.255.45] has joined #lisp 22:08:48 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@89.108.255.45] has left #lisp 22:09:13 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:45 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-jnbzkzizekophhrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:05 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:28 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:07 The_Jon_Smith: and what would be the observable effect? 22:11:52 i have some vops defined using defknown, and to get them to inline properly i am loading the file twice 22:12:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:17 i could split to another file, but it would be nice to just have two compilation units or something 22:13:04 Well, keep a variable with the state? 22:15:47 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.254.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:20:22 it's probably possible to move that into an eval-when, but the clobbering condition would be throw at load-time so you'd have to wrap a handler-bind around. 22:21:19 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:33 -!- beach` is now known as beach 22:25:17 hmm 22:25:24 Good morning everyone! 22:25:33 i've played with that a bit, i'll try some more 22:28:54 pkhuong pasted "defknown, eval-when and handler-bind" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122700 22:28:55 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:20 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:44 hmm, i see 22:33:48 i think that is exactly what i wanted 22:33:51 thanks 22:33:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-4.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:12 -!- jewel_ is now known as jewel 22:35:00 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:36:19 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:37:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-67-188.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:38:11 . 22:38:20 tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 22:39:36 mogura [~mogura@FL1-122-135-220-231.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 22:40:20 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-192.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:43:34 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:46 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:01 The_Jon_Smith: but, really, unless this is a tiny tiny hack, going with multiple files isn't a bad thing for code organisation. 22:46:55 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:11 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.76.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:36 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:48:23 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 22:48:41 yeah, i'd rather go with multiple files, but it is a basically a hack to get this benchmark: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=sbcl to the same speed as C 22:48:58 or within 'close enough' range 22:48:59 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has left #lisp 22:49:11 -!- Landr [~user@78-22-146-181.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:16 The_Jon_Smith: and what are the vops for? 22:50:21 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-181-105.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:42 fourier [~user@h-89-75.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:50:50 cmple-movmskpd and v2df multiply 22:51:05 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 22:51:10 I believe I pasted a version that simply uses complex arithmetic 22:51:20 ah 22:51:32 haven't seen that one, is basically what i am doing 22:52:01 strange. 22:52:13 Might have disappeared during the great cleanup. 22:52:43 have you tried just using complex double float arithmetic? That already compiles to SIMD code. 22:52:51 that's what i'm doing 22:53:16 only issue is that complex multiply is different from using a simd multiply, which is what i want 22:53:26 and the comparison is inappropriate i think 22:53:30 i'll paste hold/on 22:55:14 The_Jon_Smith pasted "Mandelbrot complex math" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122701 22:55:54 pretty much exactly same as GCC version 22:56:03 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:03 down to the generated assembly 22:56:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:56:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:57:20 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:59:54 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:00:05 and is that really significantly better than just processing each pixel separately? 23:00:13 I guess that's par for the shootout 23:00:16 yup 23:00:53 I mean, the current version goes out of its way to make sure complex arithmetic is inefficient (it used to be worth it, ~2-3 years ago) 23:01:17 gcc is like 14.8 at 16000 this sbcl one is 16.7 on my machine 23:01:28 its not complex arithmetic actually 23:01:31 and what's the per-pixel loop with complex arithmetic? 23:01:41 that is why i need the vops 23:01:43 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:52 it is abusing complex number primitives for the sse instructions 23:02:01 mandelbrot is complex arithmetic. 23:02:03 add and subtract are the same 23:02:08 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:19 sure, but it isn't using complex numbers for their correct purpose 23:02:24 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:25 yes it is. 23:02:30 It's defined over complex numbers. 23:02:36 oh yes of course 23:02:40 mandelbrot is 23:02:45 but this particular program is not 23:02:54 hence the vops 23:03:14 right. So, my question is: is processing two pixel at a time this way significantly better than going with complex arithmetic? 23:03:35 if yes, then it's even less code to just write the whole loop as a VOP. 23:03:37 no idea, i can try that next 23:03:59 mostly i wanted to know how to write vops and needed a project 23:04:17 implementing the intrinsics used in the gcc version seemed like a good idea 23:05:57 back when I committed the sse complexes, that brought (with complex arithmetic) down to ~20% of g++ (single pixel at a time). 23:08:17 anyway, if it's really worth the trouble, it'd be less code to bring pretty much the whole body of the loop in a VOP. 23:09:48 yeah 23:09:55 well i'll try it with the actual complexes 23:15:01 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:44 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:17:01 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-41-1-53.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18:39 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-94-177.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:18:57 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:22:06 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:13 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@dyn-86-36-35-124.qatar.cmu.edu] has quit [Quit: if you're going....to san. fran. cisco!!!] 23:23:25 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:36 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:25:13 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:11 eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 23:29:31 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 23:30:30 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:49 The_Jon_Smith annotated #122701 "complex arith is 3x slower" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122701#1 23:30:57 yup 23:31:03 actual complexes seems slower 23:31:59 -!- eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has quit [Client Quit] 23:32:13 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 23:34:11 actually a little puzzled as to why 23:36:43 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:37 there's some bad codegen for the 2-norm. 23:39:49 it's not atrocious, but it hurts more than one might expect. 23:40:10 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:53 there's also a lot of useless declarations in both versions (doesn't really affect codegen, but makes the source look worse). 23:41:11 If you want, I'm sure someone can help once you have nice working code. 23:41:59 working? 23:42:10 that functions. 23:42:21 it doesn't work? 23:42:37 I don't know. 23:44:36 cool i generated an anti-mandelbrot 23:44:43 seems to work though 23:46:00 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 23:46:55 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@host61-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:47:15 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:15 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:49:23 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:53:58 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:55:21 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.251] has joined #lisp 23:56:27 -!- mogura [~mogura@FL1-122-135-220-231.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:56:54 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:01 -!- Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:59:04 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:15 -!- fourier [~user@h-89-75.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:59:18 jdz [~jdz@host76-109-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp