00:00:19 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:33 xenonx: bordeaux-threads? 00:00:37 xenonx: have you looked at http://www.cliki.net/thread ? 00:00:59 or what pinterface said :P 00:01:27 thanks 00:02:05 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 00:03:11 is bordeaux-threads usually prefered over portable threads? 00:04:01 someone just recommended me that one in a different channel. don't feel like installing both to try 00:04:01 xenonx: what is this "portable threads"? 00:04:23 pnq [~nick@AC84097B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:25 Portable-Threads library. it's listed on kenjin's link 00:05:00 I think bordeaux-threads is the leader of the pack. 00:05:31 iwillig [~iwillig@cpe-24-90-155-38.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:41 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:21 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:24 xenonx: they're both available via quicklisp. Installation pain free. 00:07:28 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:01 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:10 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:13:20 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 00:20:10 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has left #lisp 00:20:44 What's the easiest way to control the *print-length* that will be used by the SLIME debugger? 00:21:07 gigamonkey: you can print values from the slime inspector (: 00:21:14 (i run into this problem all the time) 00:21:19 I always get error messages like 'The path #P"/Users/peter/code-quarterly/production/testwriters..." does not exist.' which could be more useful. 00:21:33 milkpost [~milkpost@web30.webfaction.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:34 yeah - inspect the #p object (hit RET on it) 00:21:38 then hit... I think p 00:21:57 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:35 yeah, p 00:22:54 this will give you a buffer with (describe ) output in it 00:22:56 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 00:28:51 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 00:28:59 -!- johanbev [~johanbev@138.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:29:04 johanbev [~johanbev@138.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:28 vozhyk_: there's FILE-ERROR. 00:32:35 s/vozhyk_/Vowyer/ but he left... 00:37:24 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38:41 -!- foocraft_ [~ewanas@89.211.107.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:53 antifuchs: thanks. Actually just hitting return was enough. 00:43:04 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:40 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-111-147.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:49:40 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.107.185] has joined #lisp 00:57:14 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:57:19 -!- kanru_ is now known as kanru 01:04:18 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A536C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:00 I've downloaded quicklisp and it works great. but how would I install a package that doesn't exist in it's repository? for example this library for parsing malformed html. it has an asdf package one can download. do I have to use asdf-install of quicklisp to install it? http://www.cliki.net/closure-html 01:05:32 "do I have to use asdf-install INSTEAD of quicklisp to install it?" even 01:05:41 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:07:05 no. just download it, unpack it somewhere accessible, and configure asdf to include apropriate paths to the system (*.asd) files 01:07:08 xenonx: closure-html is in quicklisp. 01:07:16 closure-html is in quicklisp. 01:07:22 Or once was. 01:07:55 you are right i must have mispelled it 01:08:01 -!- qizwiz``` [~user@ppp-70-247-127-103.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:17 Are you using ql:system-apropos? It's handy. 01:08:55 I don't think it searches by soundex yet ;) 01:09:32 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:08 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.207.75] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:12:38 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:12:48 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.107.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:15 I'm getting some errors while trying to install it unfortunately. I'm using windows and clisp currently. would be nice if I could get it working on both linux and windows 01:13:51 complaining about the lack of wide characters support, I'll paste 01:14:13 xenonx pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122613 01:14:58 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:31 Well, I got that same rune warning on my system and it worked, so the latter stuff may be unrelated. 01:15:35 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:40 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:15 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:45 are you getting same error when doing (asdf:load-system 'closure-html) ? 01:17:51 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 01:18:44 I meant that I got the same error up to ";;; Building Closure with CHARACTER RUNES". The rest, no idea. 01:18:57 ah ok 01:19:09 Paste a backtrace, maybe? 01:19:42 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:20:49 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:21:28 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Quit: quittin' time] 01:21:45 how do I get a backtrace? I've been learning lisp for a week 01:22:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:41 pyrony [~epic@173.151.171.167] has joined #lisp 01:24:24 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:34 I don't know how to use clisp, but uh, it gives you a prompt after displaying the restarts, yes? Try typing "backtrace" or "help" or "?" 01:25:46 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:27:38 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:28:50 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:25 xenonx: if you are running lisp on the command line, stuff will be annoying and confusing (and essentials like backtraces take manual work). I recommend getting quicklisp and installing slime (: 01:29:35 (installing slime through quicklisp that is) (: 01:29:44 (oh, I just saw you're using ql already! sorry) (: 01:29:48 :bt or Backtrace gives me 2800 lines of what looks like a bunch of random sexpes to me, I"m not sure how helpful that would be but I can paste it 01:29:52 quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has joined #lisp 01:29:52 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:52 What's confusing in typing :bt ? 01:30:03 yeah I plan on installing slime sooner or later 01:30:03 xenonx: this is the backtrace. 01:30:04 pjb: it's one more thing to remember 01:30:17 antifuchs: I have more things to remember with slime... 01:30:19 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 01:30:35 xenonx: you may reduce it with: :bt 5 01:30:42 but then you have less information to debug with... 01:33:56 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:09 Does Clozure use TCO? 01:34:42 -!- xristos_ is now known as xristos 01:34:57 xenonx pasted "backtrace " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122614 01:35:51 probably can't get much from that but hey it's worth a try 01:36:52 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:45 Given my recursive factorial function, and the fact that it worked without a hitch, I'm going to go with yes 01:39:30 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:40:08 <_3b> xenonx: looks like that library isn't portable, need to fix it (and/or file a bug report) or use a different lisp 01:40:59 (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "foo" "bar") :type :unspecific) <- are you getting error for this on something other than clisp? it appears that this is what the library is doing 01:41:16 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has left #lisp 01:41:30 <_3b> no, i'm just looking at the documentation for that function saying that call is non-portable :) 01:41:50 yeah. "Portable programs should not supply :unspecific for any component." 01:42:10 that works on sbcl 01:42:13 the line above 01:43:27 What's the command for "Slime Eval"? 01:44:25 xenonx2 [~xenon2@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 01:45:35 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has left #lisp 01:45:49 felideon [~felideon@adsl-74-233-75-115.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:01 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 01:47:32 -!- xenonx [~xenon@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 01:49:52 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:51:39 is there any difference between not and null? 01:54:58 The intent that you communicate to your readers 01:58:09 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:30 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 02:03:28 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B9A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:41 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@cpe-24-90-155-38.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:00 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 02:05:09 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B95E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:05:56 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 02:06:50 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B9A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:55 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B9A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:27 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:04 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:09:36 -!- pyrony [~epic@173.151.171.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:25 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.209.123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:07 g112wdh [~user@202.99.168.110] has joined #lisp 02:11:45 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:11:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 02:13:00 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:39 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:15:32 -!- g112wdh [~user@202.99.168.110] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:16:36 redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:44 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:16:58 hi 02:18:46 is there a standard way to invoke external applications? 02:18:47 like exec? 02:19:28 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:27 <|3b|> why would the standard require there be some host environment outside the lisp? (in other words no, but it is a common implementation specific feature) 02:20:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:20:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.230.45] has joined #lisp 02:23:26 chemuduguntar: I would say use ASDF:RUN-SHELL-COMMAND, but there are discussions to suppress it... 02:25:09 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.230.45] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:34 -!- rncarpio [~rncarpio@ppp-71-128-109-221.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [] 02:33:02 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 02:39:49 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-14-120.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 02:41:01 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:44:04 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:52:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@host253-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.250.76] has joined #lisp 02:54:47 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:15 I'm looking for a quicklisp-available library that converts cons cells to a visual representation of a binary tree. 02:56:18 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:23 html, arbitrary graphic, whatever 03:02:04 tempire: it's not on quicklisp but there's an implementation of it in Gentle Intro 03:02:34 gentle? 03:02:38 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 03:02:38 hba [~hba@189.130.166.233] has joined #lisp 03:02:45 common lisp: a gentle introduction? 03:02:51 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:55 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 03:03:43 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has left #lisp 03:03:45 yes 03:03:53 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Lisp/sdraw/sdraw.generic 03:04:07 hoo dilly 03:04:08 thanks 03:04:17 I've never actually tried it. :) 03:04:37 jdz [~jdz@host82-104-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:05:21 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08:25 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:34 sebas_ [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 03:08:34 -!- sebas_ is now known as Vowyer 03:09:32 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:13:40 hmm 03:13:48 this prints out the cons mapping for each value, which is neat 03:14:00 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:14:14 I'm looking for something that displays a tree, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Binary_tree.svg 03:14:22 or the same in a ul/li list 03:17:40 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 03:17:48 tempire: There are a couple DOT libraries out there. I forget which I like. 03:18:36 tempire: EG: http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/projects/cl-dot/#Usage 03:23:20 -!- Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:29 psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has joined #lisp 03:26:35 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has left #lisp 03:34:51 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:10 sellout++ 03:35:17 and felideon++, of course 03:35:35 :) 03:35:52 now if only cl-dot generated a file, I'd be happy 03:38:49 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:42:52 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:54 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:43:00 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:14 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:48:39 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:48:59 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:50:17 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 03:50:59 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:34 is there a function in standard library to fetch a directory from path? "/tmp/foo" => "/tmp/" 03:55:13 Yes. 03:55:33 It's called: (lambda (p) (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :version nil :defaults p)) 03:56:05 thanks to lambda, all the functions are in the standard library. 03:59:08 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:59:15 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 03:59:29 does that work portably? I've been reading Practical Common lisp and one chapter is dedicated to making a portable pathname library on top of lisps standard path system 04:00:32 I tend to give conforming code. 04:01:24 ok thanks 04:02:20 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 04:03:57 -!- pnq [~nick@AC84097B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:05:01 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:05:31 ehine1 [~ericyoda@69.205.154.161] has joined #lisp 04:07:32 what about fetching file in path? anything nicer than (concatenate 'string (pathname-name path) "." (pathname-type path)) 04:08:13 perhaps you should read the chapter about filenames? 04:08:16 clhs file-namestring 04:08:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 04:11:42 clhs length 04:11:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_length.htm 04:15:00 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:20:13 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:17 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 04:22:59 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:11 fihi09` [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:46 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-93-100.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 04:34:47 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: cheshire cat scratch fever] 04:45:44 benny 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quit [Client Quit] 05:52:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@host82-104-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:59:53 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:51 Scriptor [~user@cpe-68-173-81-41.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:59 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:06:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:07:19 jdz [~jdz@host130-104-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:12:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@host130-104-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16:34 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 06:17:43 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:17:43 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:17:43 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:19:21 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.250.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:21:16 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.68.90] has joined #lisp 06:22:06 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:22:41 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-16-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:29 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:25:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:26 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:24 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:32:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:33:23 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 06:35:52 good morning 06:36:59 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:37:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-93-100.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:35 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 06:41:40 waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87ef98.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:44:11 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:25 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@93.135.240.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:47:44 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:48:29 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [] 06:49:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:55:45 jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.14.186] has joined #lisp 06:56:10 *jtza8* is on a cellphone. 06:57:11 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 06:57:47 Is there a way to use &rest in a method, in such a manner that one can specialise? 07:00:08 I've got a situation where using only rest in the lamda form would be convenient. 07:00:21 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:03:54 jtza8: CLOS can only specialize on required arguments. Usually what one does when desiring to specialize on an optional argument is to define a regular function (taking an optional argument) which calls the generic function (which necessarily requires that argument). 07:05:24 pinterface: thanks, thats a good work around. 07:05:32 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:05:45 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-37-206.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:09:49 basho- [~basho-@dslb-092-076-079-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:02 -!- basho- [~basho-@dslb-092-076-079-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:59 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:17:44 -!- xenonx2 [~xenon2@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 07:18:25 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-230-243.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:02 -!- catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-mznkcuurwtpoxqha] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:14 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:20:26 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-193.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:21:21 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-2-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:21:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:22:47 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:55 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-eldjlthqedowxqen] has joined #lisp 07:29:36 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-230-243.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:32:27 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-7-140.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:33:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0030d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-34-1.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:36:17 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:41:49 Guthur [c743cb8e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.142] has joined #lisp 07:42:07 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 07:42:42 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-228.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:09 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f7652fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:11 Hello! 07:49:06 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-123-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:50:17 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-7-140.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:50:17 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:53:06 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7F573.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:57:47 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:58:30 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-snellkpewtxumrph] has joined #lisp 08:02:31 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:11 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gitvokabazfldpuv] has joined #lisp 08:06:59 -!- twbd__ is now known as twbd 08:15:54 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 08:15:58 rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 08:17:04 -!- yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:17:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 08:19:48 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 08:20:08 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:01 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.68.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:22:39 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:32:19 where can I find code for #- and #+ reader macros? hard to those names on google 08:32:29 +find 08:32:30 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:59 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 08:33:10 kennyd: you'd find them in the source of your implementation 08:33:20 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:34:01 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:34:56 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 08:36:01 I should search for "(defmacro #-" or? 08:36:41 kennyd: why do you want the source? 08:37:02 I'm curious how it's written and how many lines it takes 08:37:11 kennyd: i'm just curious, because you don't seem to know how reader works 08:37:28 general-general [~marypatri@86.46.61.67] has joined #lisp 08:37:31 i have a vague idea 08:38:00 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:38:53 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:39:54 -!- yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40:00 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 08:40:14 kennyd: you'd have to look for set-dispatch-macro-character 08:41:06 kennyd: but implementations may have other ways to set up the standard readtable 08:41:25 kennyd: so just go over the reader implementation and use your judgement 08:43:46 kennyd: for instance in SBCL it is src/sharpm.lisp file 08:46:39 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 08:47:25 yeah I found it. but hard to get anything out of it. (defun sharp-minus (stream sub-char numarg) (ignore-numarg sub-char numarg) (guts stream t))) 08:48:04 kennyd: what's hard there? 08:48:14 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 08:49:03 don't know what any of those functions do for starters 08:49:05 kennyd: GUTS is defined by the surrounding FLET 08:49:19 yeah I see now 08:49:34 gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 08:49:43 did they put it in flet because that's the only point in code where this function is being used? 08:50:09 kennyd: why do you care about the implementation of reader macros with your level of Common Lisp knowledge? 08:50:51 kennyd: they put it into FLET to avoid code duplication 08:51:24 I've just found about #- #+ macros and it blew my mind how you can add syntax like yourself to the language 08:51:40 kennyd: it's not really adding syntax 08:51:40 yeah, I meant why flet over defun 08:52:13 it is practically 08:52:51 kennyd: yes, this way GUTS is only visible to SHARP-PLUS and SHARP-MINUS; also, the function value of GUTS symbol is left unset 08:53:38 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54:08 -!- gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:54:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-65-25.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 08:54:39 kennyd: you may also want to look up the definition of FEATUREP in early-extensions.lisp (which is the remaining code to implement #+ and #-) 08:56:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.68.90] has joined #lisp 08:56:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-228.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:57:03 I get it more or less 08:58:08 so #+ reader macros gets a stream to the source, and whatever it reads is replaced by the value it returns? 08:58:29 kennyd: no 08:58:58 kennyd: your question is malformed, but maybe you mean #. reader macro 08:59:02 ok I'll read about it in the book 08:59:10 what did you mean btw that it's not really adding syntax? 08:59:25 I meant whatever reader macro you're defining 08:59:29 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 08:59:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:39 #- and #+ in this case 09:00:04 those reader macros expect well-formed lisp forms 09:00:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:00:26 ah 09:00:27 within your reader macros you can process whatever syntax you want, yes. 09:00:36 unlike defmacro which can accept invalid lisp form 09:00:52 what? 09:01:21 those reader macros expect well-formed lisp forms 09:01:21 phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:48 defmacro cannot accept invalid lisp forms 09:01:51 Hello there. Has anyone knowledge about where to get a proper cl-who overlay for gentoo? 09:02:22 gko [~gko@114-136-150-83.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:25 hm ok. by invalid lisp form I thought you meant a form that can't be compiled by lisp compiler, without modifications 09:04:01 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:04:10 kennyd: well, by well-formed i meant that lisp reader is used to read the form; that means that it must conform to the Common Lisp syntax (e.g., parens must be balanced) 09:04:37 phryk: use quicklisp 09:04:41 yeah I get that 09:04:51 drdo: what is that? 09:05:10 phryk: it is the solution to all your common lisp needs 09:05:12 quicklisp.org 09:05:15 aaah 09:05:30 Like pythons easy_install or whatever that is called 09:05:33 http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp 09:05:36 download and load this 09:05:41 and follow the instructions 09:05:51 Sadly enough theres no ebuild for it 09:06:17 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:06:44 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.134.171] has joined #lisp 09:06:52 oh those lazy .ebuild authors 09:07:29 Yeah, lisp-wise gentoo isn't exactly up-to-date. 09:07:37 -!- Intensity [7laoh6XvKb@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:07:46 gentoo isn't up-to-date on anything really 09:08:16 Intensity [sIonLwBXuw@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 09:08:49 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:07 rncarpio [~rncarpio@ppp-71-128-109-221.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:56 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:42 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:10:44 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:34 -!- rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:12:17 drdo: Most of the 'bigger' stuff is. But being bleeding edge isn't why is use gentoo 09:12:45 Everytime I close my eyes, I see ponies. 09:13:07 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:13:11 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 09:13:30 I used gentoo for years, i eventually got tired and switched to arch 09:14:25 I tried arch for like 40 minutes 09:14:40 you failed 09:15:06 I like AUR a lot 09:15:11 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 09:15:15 35 of that I tried it go compile the kernel with the options I actually set with menuconfig 09:15:18 And failed at it. 09:15:33 That was enough for me to never touch it again 09:15:41 -!- waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87ef98.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:15:52 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has quit [Quit: be back later] 09:15:59 lulz, as a gentoo user you should be familiar with reading instructions 09:16:08 Yes. 09:16:25 But not with the system fucking something as low as a kernel configuration up. 09:17:32 ahmm, you can just do it the same way you do with gentoo 09:17:43 That's what I tried. 09:18:23 It's not like that is awfully compilcated 09:18:26 I think this says it all: "Simplicity", according to Arch, is defined as "...without unnecessary additions, modifications, or complications.." and is defined from a developer standpoint, rather than a user standpoint 09:18:42 software written for the developers sake rather than the user 09:19:00 Uh 09:19:14 Am I the only one who thinks that sounds awfully dumb? 09:19:16 because developers are never users. 09:19:24 *|3b|* defines it as 'off topic' :p 09:19:28 indeed. 09:19:35 takes New Jersey style to way new levels 09:19:54 my statement was kind of in the realms of software design 09:20:04 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 09:20:24 ...which is kind of in the realms of #lisp, I'm stretching things so far they might snap though 09:20:34 frx [~grr@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 09:21:08 phryk: the gentoo-lisp overlay should be pretty up to date. And if something is missing, you can tell them in #gentoo-lisp 09:21:16 is it possible to ship lisp program as a stand alone executable? 09:21:28 rootzlevel: Oh, really. That's nice. 09:22:03 frx: yes. 09:22:04 frx: it is with most implementations 09:22:08 I added that, but it didn't contain cl-who. 09:22:26 completely stand alone? can sbcl do it? 09:22:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:32 yes 09:22:39 I guess it must package interpeter and compiler with executable? 09:22:52 frx: the only standalone program on your system is probably the kernel 09:23:44 phryk: it does: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/lisp.git;a=tree;f=dev-lisp/cl-who 09:24:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0030d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:01 standalone as in it doesn't require anything but executable 09:24:10 frx: requires a computer probably 09:24:27 frx: name a standalone application on your system 09:24:28 drdo: and a computer requires a universe. 09:25:02 frx: or just "ldd `which ` 09:25:04 " 09:25:30 frx basically means an 'exe'. 09:25:41 obviously 09:25:57 frx: the world has more platforms than that one. 09:26:21 frx: but yes, you can do that, and no free Lisps are not very happy to provide you with one. 09:26:34 frx: I think SBCL can, though. 09:26:46 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 frx: it is kind of a FAQ. 09:26:54 double negativesss, it hurts ussss 09:26:57 the executable is pretty large though I guess? as it must ship compiler and interpreter with it? 09:27:31 jdz: I should have said "and no, free Lisps..." 09:27:53 fasta: which free lisps you mean? 09:28:07 jdz: all of them generally make a fuzz about it, AFAIK. 09:28:18 frx: and note that very few implementations nowadays have an interpreter 09:28:32 they do incremential compiling? 09:28:32 jdz: there is no reason why they don't come with an IAMANOOBGIVEMEEXE program. 09:28:44 sbcl does that? 09:28:45 fasta: please be more specific. 09:28:46 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28:56 <|3b|> jdz: which don't? even sbcl has an interpreter these days 09:29:03 frx: no, sbcl does just compiling. 09:29:06 <|3b|> (even if you have to make an effort to use it) 09:29:10 jdz: I merely made some statements based on two years old information. 09:29:16 jdz: you are the expert, you tell him. 09:29:17 fasta: why? 09:29:21 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:32 jdz: because the Lisp world moves at a glacial speed? 09:30:04 fasta: you'd have a point if your statement was true. 09:30:06 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:32 I remember Slava Pestov pissing off the Lisp community by releasing a tool for deployment without any issues. 09:30:50 So, everyone had been whining about such tools and he just did it for his language. 09:30:52 <|3b|> community != implementations though :p 09:31:13 Now, I am sure _I_ could get it to work for probably any Lisp implementation. 09:31:32 But that doesn't make it a well-supported operation. 09:31:43 Anyway, if it is old information you could tell frx. 09:31:47 fasta: you're just spreading FUD 09:32:07 jdz: here is your chance to say how great the ecosystem is today. 09:32:34 Let's see whether a library I am interested in has a Lisp binding. 09:32:38 fasta: no, here's your chance to shut up if you don't have anything worthwhile to say 09:33:13 <|3b|> jdz: i'd have said 'your chance to fix it if something is wrong' :) 09:33:33 |3b|: that too :) 09:33:47 just shut up and start working 09:34:00 which i'm gonna do myself 09:34:28 frx: I think the answer may have got lost in the noise 09:34:39 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:34:40 there is save-lisp-and-die with SBCL 09:34:53 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:56 also, maybe check out Xach's clbuild 09:34:57 Guthur: which is less than ideal. 09:35:06 <|3b|> you mean buildapp, clbuild is something else 09:35:11 it worked ok for me 09:35:12 :) I didn't mean to start a flame war 09:35:27 frx: anything will do that here. 09:35:33 oops yes buildapp, |3b| thanks 09:35:36 <|3b|> fasta: as opposed to C which can keep running after building a binary? :p 09:35:58 <|3b|> (yes, it could be better, feel free to fix it) 09:36:26 |3b|: I am not here for a language war. 09:36:32 frx: what exactly was the problem with s-l-a-d? 09:36:42 I'm interested 09:37:02 <|3b|> saving binaries from a running application tends to be a bad idea anyway though, unless you do a lot of work to make sure the right state gets torn down/recreated after restart 09:37:07 I don't know what s-l-a-d is 09:37:07 fasta: language war not possible, you're only allow to use Common Lisp here, hehe 09:37:13 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:37:19 Anyway, the library I was interested in does not have a Lisp binding, btw. 09:37:33 Obviously, Python does have multiple (not that I care about Python). 09:37:35 frx: Save-Lisp-And-Die 09:37:47 <|3b|> python doesn't have bindings for any of my libraries :p 09:38:06 Guthur it requires user to have lisp installed 09:38:06 |3b|: then they must be proprietary. 09:38:10 Or useless. 09:38:18 <|3b|> or written in CL? :p 09:38:20 frx: most languages require a runtime 09:38:20 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:38:38 so that's really a bogus arguement, sorry 09:38:55 |3b|: tell me a library which does something useful which does not have a counter part in Python. 09:39:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:15 *|3b|* would say 'parenscript', but if i have to use python that would sort of defeat the purpose of translating from sexps :/ 09:40:45 That doesn't really sound convincing. 09:40:51 <|3b|> not sure what 'python has a huge user base' has to do with #lisp though 09:41:01 fasta: you could alway write a binding, maybe lemonodor fame awaits you 09:41:10 CL should just build a Python interpreter to say that it comes with batteries included. 09:41:12 *|3b|* isn't trying to convince anyone, the bit about python not having bindings for my CL libs was a joke :) 09:41:21 <|3b|> fasta: there is one 09:41:29 |3b|: a non-broken one? 09:41:30 fasta: cl-python 09:41:45 These things are often just toys. 09:41:55 Is some company using it in production? 09:42:11 <|3b|> fasta: and using a python interpreter to say 'batteries included' wouldn't be a toy? 09:42:14 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-170-186.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:42:20 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:42:25 |3b|: not if you do it efficiently. 09:42:29 fasta: starting to get too obvious 09:42:33 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 09:42:58 this convo is not really going anywhere useful 09:43:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-65-25.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:07 <|3b|> true, i should go back to playing with blurry browser text or something :p 09:46:12 infinitely more constructive I would say 09:47:14 how do you guys distribute your lisp programs? as a .lisp and require lisp installed? 09:47:27 *|3b|* puts them on web servers 09:47:45 <|3b|> and either runs them there, or distributes them as javascript or flash 09:47:49 frx: distribute to who? 09:47:52 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:47:53 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:48:01 frx: how do you distribute a program as .c and require C compiler to be installed? 09:48:20 <|3b|> if i wanted to distribute to a limited audience, i might build binaries with sbcl, for wide consumer use i might look at a commercial lisp 09:48:39 *|3b|* would also evaluate ccl for both of those cases, maybe ecl,abcl as well 09:48:45 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:47 It really depends on the audience and what kind of program it is 09:49:26 so you CAN make binaries? how large are they? hello world 09:49:48 pretty big with sbcl 09:49:53 50MB+ 09:49:59 <|3b|> flash binaries or js? pretty small, up to ~30-60MB for sbcl binaries 09:50:17 <|3b|> more if you load lots of libs, they tend to compress well though 09:50:19 yeah I guessed so, as it has to include compiler right 09:50:26 frx: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3050214712631064@arcana.naggum.no.html 09:50:30 yes it includes everything 09:50:31 <|3b|> more that sbcl just compiles things pretty big :p 09:50:33 what about commercial lisp 09:50:44 <|3b|> clisp includes a bunch of stuff in a few MB 09:51:11 that's pretty good 09:51:17 |3b|: How does a tree shaker work? 09:51:24 <|3b|> some lisps might also give you the option of splitting out some of the runtime into a dynamic lib, so you can ship a bunch of smaller binaries that share th elib 09:51:44 How can you determine that i don't use, for example, eval? 09:51:55 <|3b|> drdo: you tell it what to keep, it finds dependencies of that thing, and drops everything else 09:52:04 oh ok, you explicity tell it 09:52:07 <|3b|> in SBCL case it doesn't help much, since CLOS tends to use the compiler 09:52:20 <|3b|> which is why SBCL doesn't have one 09:52:47 it doesn't have one what? 09:52:47 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:52:50 *|3b|* supposes some tree shakers might behave differently, that's more or less how mine works though 09:52:51 it's a lot of work for little gain 09:52:56 <|3b|> sbcl doesn't have a tree shaker 09:53:05 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:48 rootzlevel: ah, silly me. didn't adjust the make.conf when installing layman m( 09:56:57 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:14 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:58 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:15 does anybody there a package/project/lib that allows you to pass commands to a linux terminal or something like that from lisp 10:01:24 +know 10:01:37 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:01:40 trivial-shell? 10:01:46 "linux terminal"? 10:02:00 yes 10:02:05 thanx drdo 10:02:11 ziga_ [~ziga@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has joined #lisp 10:03:03 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:22 oh, i thought it was about terminal emulation 10:05:54 nope I am not that crazy 10:06:25 MORE CRAZY 10:06:33 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:21 #s(hash-table :test eq) <- does this create a new hash table every time I call it? 10:07:28 is it like a hash-table literal? 10:07:57 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:08:04 it's what repl returned when I did (make-hash-table) 10:08:14 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 10:08:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.68.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:09:23 #S denotes a structure 10:09:50 so it's a struct literal 10:11:01 not a literal, a printed representation of an object 10:11:23 if i type it myself though i get another object 10:12:21 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:29 (eq #s(hash-table :test eq) #s(hash-table :test eq)) 10:12:30 nil 10:12:57 and? 10:13:04 you expected it to be true? 10:13:22 <|3b|> clhs 2.4.8.13 10:13:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhm.htm 10:13:24 it creates an object is my point 10:13:30 <|3b|> ^ tells you what you can portably expect it to do 10:13:42 alright 10:13:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.218.90] has joined #lisp 10:14:34 <|3b|> and since HASH-TABLE isn't required to be a STRUCTURE, you can't rely on it portably 10:15:40 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-128.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:27 ok 10:17:54 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:18:05 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:18:22 is that the right lisp terminology im using? is #(1 2 3) an array literal? 10:18:27 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:31 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:18:37 *|3b|* thinks so 10:20:44 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:33 according to http://l1sp.org/cl/glossary/literal, yes 10:23:11 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 10:24:34 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:28:21 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-193.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28:44 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-111-147.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:30:24 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:29 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:05 (defun last (list) (if (cdr (list)) (-last (cdr list)) list)) <- what am i doing wrong here? it just returns list 10:32:47 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:07 <|3b|> well if you are trying to define a function with the same name as a CL function, that is one 'wrong' thing 10:33:10 a better question would be: what are you doing right there? 10:33:40 yeah I've named it -last, posted wrong version 10:33:49 but apart from the name it's the same 10:33:52 <|3b|> ok, that was the next 'wrong' thing :) 10:34:40 why are you making an empty list in the test? 10:35:22 <|3b|> yeah, just saw that, (list) tends to not have a 'true' cdr 10:35:33 ah 10:35:52 fixed, works 10:35:58 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:36:45 daniel__1 [~daniel@p50829AEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:19 -!- gko [~gko@114-136-150-83.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [] 10:37:52 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-193.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:38:08 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A0F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:38:38 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.157.78] has joined #lisp 10:41:56 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.14.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:42:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:44:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:37 one more question and I'll stop bugging you for now :). what's an equivalent of a while loop? i see dotimes, dolist, dohash 10:45:59 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:05 there is loop macro,but i want to implement all lisp functions with just language primitives 10:46:13 all list functions* 10:46:57 <|3b|> LOOP is as 'primitive' as any of the DO macros 10:46:59 SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 10:47:00 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:47:12 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:18 o didnt realize they're macros 10:47:42 <|3b|> clhs 3.1.2.1.2.1 10:47:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_ababa.htm 10:47:54 <|3b|> ^ there is the list of things CL considers 'primitive' if anything 10:48:00 how would one implement lenght with just the primitives? i can't use recursion as i cant pass current index as argument 10:48:20 <|3b|> of which TAGBODY is the most likely one to use to implement loops 10:48:29 jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.14.186] has joined #lisp 10:48:53 <|3b|> you can't use recursion because CL doesn't require TCO, it works other than that 10:49:15 sbcl has TCO though right? 10:49:24 <|3b|> depending on settings, yes 10:49:36 how would you use recursion? 10:49:48 *|3b|* would use LOOP 10:49:57 without doing something like this: (defun -length (list &optional n) 10:50:03 as that wouldn't match real function 10:50:08 <|3b|> if you really wanted though, probably with a LABELS helper function for thr recursive part 10:50:49 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 10:50:51 okay 10:51:24 -!- twbd is now known as twbd|transport|c 10:51:35 -!- twbd|transport|c is now known as twbd|trnsp|cb|ex 10:52:00 <|3b|> or possibly some common 'iterate over a list' helper, if you were doing similar things a lot (as you probably would be if reimplementing random CL functions) 10:52:37 good idea. iterate helper that takes a function? 10:53:04 <|3b|> right 10:55:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:55:19 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-7.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:56:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:57:32 youguy [~youguy@38.Red-79-158-65.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:49 http://pastebin.com/Z2SQJFwR 10:59:29 i seem to be stuck. i'm trying to check if a symbol is bound or not but i seem to have symbols that are not 'eq despite printing the same and being in all other respects the same 11:00:20 <|3b|> don't seem to be in same package 11:00:41 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-170-186.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:54 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:00:54 <|3b|> or they would have the same package prefix or lack of prefix 11:01:14 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:58 ah 11:01:59 hold on 11:02:35 http://pastebin.com/SwSFKU9u one is internal and one is external. 11:02:42 i think this is a shadowing issue. 11:02:43 hmm. 11:03:00 how to get current working directory? 11:03:23 <|3b|> what is *package* and does it :use IOFORMS? 11:03:33 <|3b|> clhs d-p-d 11:03:33 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for d-p-d. 11:03:38 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:03:44 <|3b|> clhs *d-p-d* 11:03:44 *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_defaul.htm 11:03:58 <|3b|> ^ is as close to 'current working directory' as CL specifies 11:04:12 |3b|: looking 11:04:21 <|3b|> most implementations have some way to get the OS idea of cwd as well, possibly in a posix lib or similar 11:04:28 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 11:05:03 I just found it by accident, might even be semi-portable 11:05:16 (directory "./") 11:05:18 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.218.90] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:05:54 *|3b|* suspects that is just a complicated way to access *default-pathname-defaults* 11:05:56 how to get string out of it though? 11:07:01 <|3b|> clhs namestring 11:07:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 11:07:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:08:00 |3b|: i fixed it :) (eq 'ioforms:=+= (ioforms:make-special-variable-name '+)) 11:08:03 => t 11:08:10 thanks. *default-pathname-defaults* works on linux? on windows it gives me current drive, not current directory 11:08:30 (directory "./") works fine though 11:09:52 <|3b|> like i said, CL doesn't have a 'working directory', it has *d-p-d* 11:09:59 _mo_ [~mo@112.207.189.144] has joined #lisp 11:10:55 <|3b|> anything file CL operations should be relative to *d-p-d*, even if it doesn't match the posix cwd (which seems to be the case on windows clisp at startup, or elsewhere if you change of of them)) 11:11:01 <|3b|> *one of them 11:12:08 -!- youguy [~youguy@38.Red-79-158-65.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:12:22 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.14.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:13:03 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:14:07 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:14:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:14:52 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:18 gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 11:16:24 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.243.13] has joined #lisp 11:17:59 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:38 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:59 jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.14.186] has joined #lisp 11:19:33 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:19:34 -!- gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:58 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:26:41 -!- fasta [1334259@xs8.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 11:26:57 pnq [~nick@AC81DB9B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:06 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:31:20 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.100.192] has joined #lisp 11:32:14 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:33:00 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:21 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:09 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 11:38:58 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:42:37 rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 11:43:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:44:10 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:44:30 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:48 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:44:50 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:09 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:41 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:52:10 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:47 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:19 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-190.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:53:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-190.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 11:54:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-190.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:20 yakov [~yakov@109.188.181.218] has joined #lisp 11:55:22 hey 11:59:59 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:00:02 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-193.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:11 what do you use by default when you don't need else form or multiple forms, when or if? 12:01:31 beyeran [~beyeran@p54A91442.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:43 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDCA80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:02 Hi, does anyone know how to make a windows executable from a Clozure Cl programm on a Linux platform? 12:03:16 kennyd: when 12:03:59 beyeran: fire windows executable of ccl and SAVE-APPLICATION there?! 12:04:12 (images are not portable across OSes) 12:04:40 Kenjin any reason for it or just your preference 12:04:40 I don't have Windows myself, just linux, that's the problem 12:05:24 ok, if images are not portable, does this mean that there isn't any possibility? 12:06:34 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 12:06:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:08:46 frx pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122624 12:08:47 beyeran: i doubt it, but ask in #ccl 12:09:35 hypno: I try it, thank you anyways! 12:11:01 anyone? how to get proper error printed when condition is fired 12:12:46 kennyd: easier to read I think and also my preference 12:14:26 do we have gstreamer bindings? 12:14:48 kennyd: there is also UNLESS, which sometimes is nice. 12:15:22 should i go with grovel (i will write for windows)? 12:15:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:38 yakov: i have no idea what gstreamer is, but if it's a C lib, SWING and CFFI is very nice and easy to hook stuff with. 12:17:17 kennyd: when and unless are suited for multiple lisp forms after the condition, where for if you wold need progn 12:17:53 hypno: you mean SWIG. yeah, i forgot about that! 12:18:21 and yes, its a C library for playing sound etc. 12:18:34 I know, you'd obviously prefer when then. I meant in case you only have a single true form 12:18:52 +when 12:19:45 kennyd: I believe when (for true) and unless (for false) are preferred 12:19:50 anyone has a clue why is clisp printing condition type instead of the error message? if I do (/ 1 0) I get error message instead. http://paste.lisp.org/display/122624 12:20:33 frx: Why would you get the text? 12:20:48 because I specified it in error call? 12:21:03 yakov: ah, right. i say give it a shot. i've hooked oracle libs with it, and the added benefit is that the same code is pretty darn portable. i would have prefered more contrast/markers in the generated ffi glue, but.. 12:21:16 frx: so? 12:21:21 it's just a slot for the condition 12:21:58 so what do i do to get error message? 12:22:09 you might want to look at the :report option 12:22:15 http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_defi_5.htm 12:22:18 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:23:33 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:26:07 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:27:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:40 what is the command for invoking "Slime Eval"? 12:28:11 odd, report was not mentioned a single time in Practical Common Lisp 12:28:31 in the Beyond Exception Handling: Conditions and Restarts at least 12:29:04 frx pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122625 12:29:24 do I need all the crap in first form in define-condition? 12:30:05 and why is he calling error like this: (error 'malformed-log-entry-error :text text))) :text obviously doesn't appear to do anything 12:30:10 frx: you're not using the TEXT slot at all 12:30:10 frx: like the clhs page says, :report is equivalent to defining a print-object method 12:30:19 you can do that if you prefer 12:30:34 jdz text slot in error call? 12:30:47 frx: no, in your pasted DEFINE-CONDITION call 12:31:10 jdz I copy/pasted that from practical common lisp 12:31:17