00:00:37 I have been trying a lot of nosql db stuff in the last two weeks ... i have not gotten to the commercial stuff like allegrograph yet ...trying to stick to non commercial stuff 00:01:35 ... I guess I could try finishing my old TokyoCabinet stuff 00:02:00 or make a KyotoTyrant pure-lisp client 00:02:13 (no way I'm linking a GPL library in) 00:02:21 beach: I am impress that you got 10 million records loaded that fast, the loading has been killing me it takes for ever 00:03:03 p_l|backup: bsd licence or something in that vain and I will support it ;) 00:03:11 Harag: MIT 00:03:23 that is fine 00:03:51 all the libraries I'm publishing use MIT unless impossible otherwise (applications might use GPL or proprietary, though) 00:04:23 Harag: I didn't load them. Since I worked with Multics in 1980, I refuse to accept the distinction between disk and main memory. 00:04:56 hahaha 00:05:12 beach: you'd love AS400, then :P 00:05:22 p_l|backup: So I hear, yes. 00:05:39 tricus [~tricus@h69-130-142-158.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:45 -!- tricus [~tricus@h69-130-142-158.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has left #lisp 00:05:46 p_l|backup: dont mock I learned to program on as400s and 36s 00:06:00 Harag: I don't think he was mocking. 00:06:09 *beach* might be wrong. 00:06:21 I'm not mocking 00:06:27 beach: i am mocking ;) 00:06:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-171-252.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:29 I tried to read up on the AS400, but many of the documents are secret. 00:06:44 but i did start on a AS400 00:07:00 *p_l|backup* has a retrocomputing/weird machines hobby, especially for the big iron stuff 00:07:26 AS400 was amaizing ... to work with 00:07:43 the 36's where dogs thow 00:07:57 so I actually got to play with z/OS, MVS 3.8, ITS, TOPS-20, UNIX V7, BSD4.3 and some others 00:08:38 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:28 beach: i might be able to get you some of the as400 manuals ...those guys knew how to write system domuments...we had cabbenits full of manuals 00:10:26 i still have contact with some as400 rpg hackers 00:11:29 p_l|backup: you are lucky .. most of us had to just work with the stuff put in front of us ;) 00:12:20 Harag: That would be fantastic! 00:12:56 I installed MVS on Hercules, and started playing around 00:13:15 you're right though, it's friggin' impossible to find good documentation on how that stuff works 00:13:16 Harag: well, most of that had to be emulated. Though I got to play with z/OS on a real z9 or z10, thanks to IBM 00:13:27 ok I will try to get hold of the guys tomorrow but i dont know how much of that stuff they have in electronic format ...might take a while to scan all those docs 00:14:01 and I'm still in awe in how ... simple and sensible certain drivers' interface on AIX/VIOS is 00:14:42 (only foundit by looking over the shoulder of IBM Engineer who I helped install the hw, as company representative) 00:14:56 Harag: there isn't any chance you might have a good pointer to how to become more familiar with this stuff, is there? 00:15:28 p_l|backup: what is scary is that the as400 was on big rdbms already you could do sql on any and all files...web semantics is way behind... 00:15:31 loke: IBM has courses one can take, and you can get access to machines with that 00:15:48 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.136.76.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:15:56 loke: they started putting manuals on-line, though they can be hard to find unless you know where to look. 00:16:29 loke: you can get an as400 on a pc now the licencing is hectic but if you earn in dollars or euros it should not be to bad 00:17:42 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:08 I might get a job in a bank soon, but it doesn't seem like they have AS/400 or mainframe stuff - apparently they went with AIX on pSeries 00:18:21 at least for some stuff 00:19:10 Harag: No, i'm just doing this for fun. Which is why I'm installing VMS as that one is actually free. 00:20:02 the other thing that the as400 got right was security and job ques 00:20:10 So for me, it's an excersise in retrocomputing 00:20:14 loke: except for install media. BTW, do you have VMS/VAX 7.3? I lost mine. 00:20:28 unless you knew how to intercept the print ques hehehe 00:20:38 p_l|backup: No. I never used VMS 00:20:40 only got VMS/Alpha 8.2 or 8.3 lying somewhere 00:20:52 I was running BSD on the VAX back in the days 00:20:55 s/Alpha/AXP/ 00:21:21 VAX11/780 00:21:26 great machine 00:21:41 Two RA-81 disks. Those were monsters :-) 00:22:21 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:30 Had it at the computer club. Man, it's been over 20 years 00:23:14 oh boy, 11/780 00:23:36 SIMH added emulation of those some time rcently 00:23:53 though its console was crazy compared to MicroVax it emulates as well 00:24:22 wow. cool\ 00:24:26 I have to look that up 00:24:35 Though nothing beats the real thing 00:24:47 There is something special about wired backplanes :-) 00:25:41 Anyway. Need to rush to work. Bye all 00:25:41 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:26:04 enjoy loke 00:30:29 p_l|backup: those as400 terminals had 24 function keys and preprogramming of those function keys build in 00:31:18 it took many years before you could pre-program your keyboard on a pc like that 00:31:24 sounds interesting. They still used block terminals, right? 00:31:42 what do you mean by block? 00:31:55 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.172] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:32:27 Harag: screens would be sent as a whole, then you edit them on slightly smart terminal, hit a key and changes get transmitted back 00:32:28 they where big heavy clukers that weighed more than the green screen that burned images into your retinas for life 00:32:37 (that's how it went on 3270) 00:33:11 the terminals where dumb, but i dont know how the tech was set up 00:33:41 Unix otoh used truly dumb terminals due to legacy of ASR-33 which was basically a teletype 00:34:08 Harag: lisp machines had three dedicated programmable keys! 00:34:16 kewl 00:34:37 "smart terminals" we web browers, with form requests. 00:34:39 i wish i started on a lisp machine 00:35:24 it was 15 years after my first job on as400s that I even heard about lisp 00:36:30 Quadrescence: those as400s you could program all 24 Function keys 00:36:35 Yeah, we all regret not having programmed in lisp earlier. 00:36:41 Harag: ;) 00:37:01 Harag: Well lisp machines had control meta alt super hyper 00:37:12 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:37:17 (shift too!) 00:37:30 I mainly regret it in the way it might push me earlier into making a common lisp implementation so that it would be ANSI-compliant by now ;> 00:37:35 well hopefully one day soon we will have lisp machines agagin 00:37:59 Not any time soon, unless a lisper becomes rich 00:38:23 i regret it because it would have taught me how to program a properly way sooner 00:38:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: night!] 00:39:12 SDL lists the "windows" key as "SUPER", I think, that reminded me of space cadet kbs. 00:39:22 Quadrescence: i think you are wrong there... its inevidible 00:39:46 Bike: Windows is "super", "menu" is "hyper" 00:40:05 I suppose I'd need a Mac for meta, huh. >_> 00:40:07 *p_l|backup* actually uses those with those names 00:40:11 Harag: It's reasonable, not inevitable :( 00:40:20 Quadrescence: those as400 keybords had a alt and some other keys aswell 00:40:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D93D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:40:46 Bike: alt is meta on unices, though I have both meta and altgr, and soon should have Compose as well 00:40:46 I have a lisp machine keyboard next to me. Instead of fetching one on the internet, let me make one personally 00:40:59 "super" is a better name anyway, especially if you don't use Windows but use the key, like me... 00:41:06 p_l|backup: Compose? 00:41:11 Quadrescence: it is inevitable they might not call it a lisp machine but it will be one 00:41:51 Bike: a key to signify a composed sequence 00:42:27 lets you have similar combination as CADR's Space Cadet keyboard 00:43:13 What do you mean by "composed sequence"? Sorry, I haven't been using computers for very long, comparatively 00:44:06 ... multiple keys forming a compose sequence ... => a character that doesn't exist on the keyboard 00:44:08 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:44:15 the world is pushing for a web world, which means its all dumb terminal in the end and what better hacking language can you have than lisp 00:45:09 Harag: actually, there is a strong reversal towards downloadable rich client working inside web browser as VM/OS 00:45:10 Well, that just seems kind of vague, I mean, there's AltGr, Emacs commands, even Shift, really... 00:45:43 Oh, Wikipedia has an article. Okay. 00:46:15 p_l|backup: yes but is that push got only super users behind it? 00:46:39 Harag: http://i.imgur.com/88DP6.jpg http://i.imgur.com/A0uz3.jpg http://i.imgur.com/48JLm.jpg 00:46:45 has anyone had trouble loading cl-syntax with quicklisp? 00:47:19 i would love for that kind of push to succeed because the alternative is giving up everything, any mote of control 00:47:40 Harag: it seems to go that way 00:48:03 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.200.92] has quit [Quit: if you're going....to san. fran. cisco!!!] 00:48:28 reminds me that I have to work on something like that (well, if I want mine to be truly better than old one) 00:48:38 Quadrescence: thats kewl i forgot all about the function key 00:51:18 p_l|backup: i think the world is ready for something like that, to much of the current effort in operating systems is gui experience ... the gui is web so lets concentrate on the other good stuff 00:52:08 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has left #lisp 00:57:08 timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100215.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:52 felideon [~felideon@adsl-98-64-196-82.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:16 btw... anyone who shouts about how great lisp is for runtime update, should go look at erlang 01:03:52 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5830318882717959520# 01:03:58 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:05:16 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:07:31 hmmm... I think I'll give up with complex, advanced solutions and just write the bastard on Rails 01:08:09 don't do that 01:08:23 coolness points > * 01:08:38 lol 01:09:01 but "coolness points" is an element of the Kleene star, so you have a paradox, so your initial assertion must be incorrect 01:09:41 that's no kleene star 01:10:14 oh boy 01:11:01 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:01 Rails? Ugh. 01:11:59 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:59 well while you guys try to solve the future ... how about some one writing a decent non sqldb in the mean time.. that would solve my problems for today and next week 01:14:59 well, I could do it otherwise, but when I grab Lisp or Erlang it's like getting this huge powerful machine that you can't help to start overengineering shit 01:15:27 heh 01:15:51 p_l|backup: Confucius said: Use nuclear weapons to kill viruses 01:15:52 lol 01:16:21 Kenjin pasted "(ql:quickload "cl-syntax") error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122595 01:16:23 with Rails it's "ok, generate that, that, and that, fill in the blanks, add some templates, ask customer for opinion" 01:16:23 life is a virus 01:16:38 it's like lego 01:17:13 p_l|backup: you can do that in lisp too, you just have to not start thinking about it with the entire lisp arsenal 01:17:20 yeah but what customer knows what they want or need till they have used it\ 01:17:34 which can be hard 01:19:19 oGMo: yes, but instead of "generate and fill blanks" you have "write the damn generator" 01:19:44 p_l|backup: weblocks? 01:20:14 Kenjin annotated #122595 "(ql:quickload "cl-syntax") output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122595#1 01:20:30 p_l|backup: i could have sworn there were some templating libraries 01:20:37 drdo: I have issues getting into it. It somehow always mismatches how I think of application, and I found out that I don't feel like writing all the widgets myself 01:21:11 oGMo: templating, sure. but it's still not "run a script, bam!, you have a running skeleton" :) 01:22:01 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:01 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:22:01 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:22:30 well, I might try finishing something for that some time from now 01:22:41 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 01:22:51 for now, sleep time, I'm already 3~4 hours past time I wanted to fall asleep 01:24:02 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:40 p_l|backup: i spent a month trying to get weblocks to do just the basics i needed (even wrote a postgresql backend) it took only a week to write my own web framework 01:24:53 -!- gor[e] [~svr@195.110.46.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:12 Harag: yeah, something like that 01:25:43 also, CPS in web somehow doesn't agree with me, especially since I'm looking more and more towards writing the apps in JS and having HTTP API 01:25:53 afk 01:25:57 but is that not the problem with lisp its easier to role your own than to make something else work for you 01:26:57 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5160.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:23 p_l|backup: i still love lisp and if we get enough non brainiacks on some of those existing libs we might be able to get something "complete" 01:30:39 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.213] has joined #lisp 01:31:11 but its all about fashion and what not... *sigh* 01:31:21 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 01:31:43 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:46 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:07 _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.192] has joined #lisp 01:32:28 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:55 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100215.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:32 timack [~tim@hlfx59-1-114.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 01:36:05 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.138] has joined #lisp 01:46:04 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 01:46:37 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:48:45 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:49:32 -!- Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:26 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 01:51:41 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:43 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:08 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:58:06 ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:58:32 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:01:24 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:02:46 -!- spiaggia` is now known as spiaggia 02:05:58 -!- tildeleb [~leb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:39 tildeleb [~leb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.192] has left #lisp 02:12:00 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:13:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:18:20 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx59-1-114.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:27 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:22:54 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:06 srid [~textual@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:56 -!- srid [~textual@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:24:23 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:33 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:24:34 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 02:25:34 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:26:47 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: gnight everybody and ii is great, don't make fun of it, understood?] 02:28:49 mobydick [~textual@124-171-179-132.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:29:06 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.138] has joined #lisp 02:30:04 Hi. Is there a way to treat a string with decimal place, (i.e. "33.77") as a number similar to the way (parse-integer "33") will treat a whole number as integer? 02:31:08 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 02:34:35 <|3b|> minion: tell mobydick about parse-number 02:35:08 <|3b|> hmm, guess minion isn't here... http://www.cliki.net/PARSE-NUMBER 02:37:53 |3b|: thanks not mentioned in "ANSI Common Lisp" 02:38:04 It's a library. 02:38:05 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:07 <|3b|> right, it is an extra library, not included in the standard 02:38:32 ahh ok.. guess thats why my REPL doesnt pick it up either 02:38:35 haha thanks 02:38:49 <|3b|> quicklisp can probably install/load it for you 02:39:06 Is there a trick to get the same result as C's % with mod? 02:39:07 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:39:23 <|3b|> floor or truncate maybe? 02:39:28 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:39:35 *|3b|* doesn't remember exactly what % does anymore 02:39:43 yep im looking at quicklisp now.. 02:40:33 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:40:40 <|3b|> i guess REM would be the other option, since MOD and REM just extract one of the values returned by FLOOR,TRUNCATE 02:41:02 The behavior on negatives is what hosed me. 02:41:15 is that even specified in C? 02:41:31 Shifting some algorithm around that was using modulo to "normalize" latitudes in C# 02:42:03 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:29 how do you keep track of libraries such as parse-number? is it pretty much just word of mouth or...?? 02:42:52 <|3b|> search cliki, see what quicklisp has, etc 02:44:07 ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:45:06 yep ok 02:50:31 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.231.102] has joined #lisp 02:53:36 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-14-186.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 02:54:25 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-14-186.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:06 rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-71-128-109-221.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:53 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 03:08:55 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:45 pkhuong: C99 specifies it. 03:11:29 pkuong: (a/b)*b + a%b shall equal a 03:12:11 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:12 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 03:13:37 I, for one, have wanted modulo *far* more often than remainder. anyone have different experience? 03:14:17 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:17 I almost always want modulo on positive values, so it isn't much of an issue for me. 03:16:40 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has left #lisp 03:19:35 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.215.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:13 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:53 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-98-64-196-82.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:04 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-146-102.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:33:46 lester- [~asdffff@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 03:34:42 lester_ [~lester-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 03:35:08 hello. if I want to have a list of pairs should I use list of 2-element lists or list of conses? 03:36:02 it depends on what you want to do. You could also define a more specific struct or class. 03:38:21 thought about that but seems like an overkill? i'm writing an irc bot for fun. i have a list of users that have permission to access the bot, thought about push nick/hostname pair to a list to keep track of them. what do you think? 03:38:33 pushing* 03:38:56 I think you might want a hash table instead. 03:39:03 I think that cl-irc has a built-in user struct. 03:40:12 lester: So, an association list? 03:40:19 why hash table because of performance? nick as key and host as value? 03:40:20 lester: Have a look at assoc. 03:40:29 Zhivago yes 03:40:53 Hm, wait, why bother tracking the nick? 03:40:54 lester-: if that's what you want. For an alist, the pair would be a cons, but alists are very rarely superior to hash tables. 03:42:28 in what cases would they even be superior? 03:42:31 Just use a thin layer of procedural abstraction and stop caring. 03:42:50 When it gets slow, swap the implementation out. 03:43:26 kennyd: when you want to exploit sharing, for one. 03:43:41 Bike you're right i could just track the host i guess 03:45:02 one more thing. when doing something like this I find myself using global variables a lot. in this case, I thought about having *permission-list*, and add-to-permission-list etc functions. should I be doing something else, to avoid having global variables? 03:45:59 lester-: change it later if it's ever an issue. Since they're dynamically scoped, not global variables, it usually isn't. 03:46:12 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:41 lester: Hide them behind procedural abstraction :) 03:47:00 not sure what you mean by dynamically scoped? I'm doing (defvar *foo* nil). isn't that a global variable? 03:47:15 Just write the interface that you want to use, and then implement it in the simplest way until it become a problem. 03:47:58 Just think "what questions does this data need to be able to answer for me?" 03:48:02 yes I'll write an interface so that the user doesn't mess with it directly. I'm just asking if that's the usual way you'd implement interface for something like this, by defvaring a list/hashtable or whatever 03:49:57 the fully-engineered way is something like: have a context object, use a special variable to bind a default context, have all your operations take a context argument that defaults to the special variable (or provide two functions), and expose a macro to shadow the current binding for the default context 03:51:40 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:51:50 lester: The simpler and stupider the better. :) 03:52:02 hee 03:52:03 Just not too simple and stupid. 03:52:17 Which is the tricky part. 03:53:00 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:53:46 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:39 yeah I like to keep things simple, just wanted to know if this was considered a bad style (having a global hash-table to keep track of something) 03:55:50 pkhuong I didn't understand half of that 03:56:52 in some languages global variables are discouraged pretty much everywhere 03:58:30 specials aren't global variables 03:58:37 they do not affect modularity the same way. 03:59:06 not sure what's the difference. how do you declare a global variable then in lisp? 03:59:17 pkhuong pasted "Dynamic variables as defaults" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122597 03:59:51 defvar. 04:00:17 But you can also have (let ((a 10)) (declare special a) ...) for example, where a is special but not globally so. 04:00:28 Don't know why I provided an initial value of nil for the context either. 04:00:40 lester-: there are no global variables in common lisp. 04:01:27 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:46 I'm not sure I see a difference between defvar in lisp and for example variable declaration outside of any function in C 04:03:18 C doesn't have globals. 04:03:19 have you seen my paste? The skeleton of a macro at the bottom hints at the difference. 04:03:44 But, they're actually pretty much the same, except for rebinding. 04:04:04 In cl, you can say (let ((*standard-output* my-file)) (foo)) 04:04:19 catphive [~brenmill@c-76-104-152-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:28 And that will change the value of *standard-output* while foo runs, and then put it back. 04:04:31 ok so in C if you declared a var with same name you would overshadow the global variable. in lisp you temporarily reassign it. is that what you meant? 04:04:34 You can't do that in C. 04:04:40 No. 04:04:52 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 04:05:07 In lisp's case, it's still the same variable. 04:05:18 (for specials) 04:05:29 (symbol-value '*standard-output*) can show this, for example. 04:05:42 It's just arranged to put the previous value back afterward. 04:05:58 Which is really very powerful. 04:06:11 Probably the feature that I miss most outside of CL. 04:06:20 yes I phrased it wrong. and I like that a lot too 04:07:02 and most implementation that support threads make sure that rebinding specials and concurrent threads play nice 04:07:15 It lets things like with-output-to-string just work. 04:08:12 (with-output-to-string (s) (let ((*standard-output* s)) ( .... )))) <- was ecstatic the other day when this worked. 04:08:37 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 04:08:47 not sure if that is even possible in C (portably) 04:09:34 strange 04:09:41 it seems like lisp won't let me push a lambda onto a list 04:09:46 (push *fs* '(lambda (x) x)) 04:09:55 swap the arguments 04:09:55 (push *fs* (lambda (x) x)) 04:10:10 It isn't possible in C -- you'd need to use freopen, which would close the previous stream. 04:10:16 woops 04:10:54 lester-: you can just (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) ...) 04:11:05 You could do something similar with FILE *standard_output; but it would get awkward to maintain the recovery invariant, even ignoring goto and longjmp. 04:11:14 pkhuong wow that works? 04:11:30 lester-: *standard-output* is just a dynamically-scoped variable. 04:12:00 So you can do the same thing in C, but it's much more of a visible pain in the arse. 04:12:21 It's a bit better in gcc, but you still have threads to worry about. 04:12:37 -!- catphive [~brenmill@c-76-104-152-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:12:47 Just say no to threads -- they're a bad idea. 04:13:13 I look forward to them being killed off by distributed systems. 04:13:59 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:14:15 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has joined #lisp 04:14:17 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [] 04:14:52 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:37 pkhuong yeah I know, just wasn't sure if with-output-to-string did simple assignment or if there was more magic to it 04:15:54 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.106] has joined #lisp 04:16:06 lester-: how could it do it with assignment? You specify an arbitrary variable name. 04:16:10 It's pretty much a simple assignment with an unwind-protect to reassign it. 04:16:35 Nicely wrapped up in let, in most case. 04:16:44 yeah 04:18:17 Thinking of lexical scoping as assignment and unwind-protect isn't a good idea. 04:18:48 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:19:26 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:47 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-179-132.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:01 Well, it's what binding a dynamic variable boils down to. 04:20:42 Sure, but a macro usually doesn't have to care about that and just expands to a let, which will do what it has to do. 04:21:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:24:21 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 04:25:57 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:27:25 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-206-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:32 is there a null stream in lisp? (let ((*standard-output* nil)) (princ "hello, world")) gave me error 04:28:41 The value of *STANDARD-OUTPUT* was not an appropriate stream: NIL 04:29:09 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-14-186.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:29:40 clhs make-broadcast-stream 04:29:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_bro.htm 04:30:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-125-145.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 04:32:13 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-206-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:36:18 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:37 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-117-49.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:57 nice thanks 04:42:09 gor[e] [~svr@195.110.46.34] has joined #lisp 04:49:32 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:52:19 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:51 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 05:04:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:20 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.33.85] has joined #lisp 05:09:23 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:10:43 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441729.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:10:43 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 05:12:20 -!- rncarpio [rncarpio@ppp-71-128-109-221.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [] 05:31:17 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-117-49.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:31:18 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-11-93.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:07 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:13 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:41 HG` [~HG@p579F775F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:00:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:01:13 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:38 -!- qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:43 qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 06:25:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:38:12 sacho [~sacho@91.139.247.244] has joined #lisp 06:39:14 aoe 06:40:11 -!- sacho [~sacho@91.139.247.244] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:40:55 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:42:58 sacho [~sacho@91.139.247.244] has joined #lisp 06:43:12 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:44:36 -!- sacho [~sacho@91.139.247.244] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:45:03 -!- lester- [~asdffff@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: .] 06:45:28 -!- lester_ [~lester-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: .] 06:47:05 sacho [~sacho@91.139.247.244] has joined #lisp 06:47:16 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:48:43 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [] 06:51:08 -!- gor[e] [~svr@195.110.46.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:00:45 -!- sacho [~sacho@91.139.247.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:01:50 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 07:03:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA214EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:09:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-125-145.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:50 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:12:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F775F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:13:19 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:18:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19:11 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-62-168.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:18 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:21:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-171-252.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:21:38 -!- qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:45 qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 07:22:26 sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has joined #lisp 07:24:14 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:26:26 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:07 Evildaemon [~chatzilla@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:56 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 07:32:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:35:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 What are the Lisp networking functions called? (Which 1. Assumes they exist and 2. Assumes they are standardized.) 07:38:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:38:31 1. Depends on the library, 2. they're not. 07:38:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0108.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:38:48 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 07:39:05 library and/or implementation. 07:39:07 That is. 07:39:32 Evildaemon: there are two cross-implementation libraries. usocket and iolib 07:39:46 Evildaemon: those should help you write portable code. 07:39:50 Okay. 07:39:55 Thank you. 07:41:22 Evildaemon: If you stick to a single implementation it may be simpler to use the implementation-provided ones, but as ehu says, that rather won't be portable. 07:42:02 stis [~stis@host-90-235-119-183.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:05 ehu: BTW, do you know if either of the above does ipv6? 07:45:00 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0108.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45:02 -!- pyrony_ [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:49:48 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:33 ayrnieu [~julian@50.15.104.42] has joined #lisp 08:03:45 general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:10 .. 08:05:11 I'm sure they'll be updated when thats a requirement if they don't. 08:05:51 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 08:07:43 hi 08:08:37 Evildaemon: you're evil because if you go zombie you cannot be removed from the system. Aren't you? 08:08:52 Lol, *SSH* 08:09:28 *SSH* 08:09:36 be quiet 08:09:56 people are trying to get some work done here 08:10:09 me too 08:10:28 I'm thinking about solving dae's using functions vector :( 08:11:15 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:13:11 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 08:13:15 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:14:30 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7F573.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:20 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7D9CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:19:30 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:20:03 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.136.76.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 08:20:49 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:20:50 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:20:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:16 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:23:56 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:24:41 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:51 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:51 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:46 -!- qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:52 qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 08:32:33 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:39:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-203-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:52:16 mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:58:50 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-34-1.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:59:02 -!- tildeleb [~leb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tildeleb] 09:04:52 arborist [~arborist@e182018010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:53 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 lharc [~shrek@static-88.131.52.70.addr.tdcsong.se] has joined #lisp 09:14:20 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 09:15:18 Hi! How do you do (let ((x ...)) (define-symbol-macro x 10)) ? 09:17:17 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:56 Perhaps you want symbol-macrolet? 09:21:42 Zhivago: I'm trying to change macros before letting asdf compile the lot. 09:27:42 -!- qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:47 qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:30:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:30:28 -!- Evildaemon [~chatzilla@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110422050619]] 09:32:16 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:35:37 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:37:55 hydo [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvgmspebndztaqcc] has joined #lisp 09:44:46 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:48:55 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:52:02 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:14 -!- lharc [~shrek@static-88.131.52.70.addr.tdcsong.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:55:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.231.102] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:56:23 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 09:57:37 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:00:51 -!- billitch_ [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:01:11 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 10:03:22 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.136.76.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.251.227] has joined #lisp 10:06:30 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 10:06:50 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:09:24 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:13:02 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 10:20:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:22:30 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:29:24 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:34:53 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:35:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.251.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:35:11 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A0F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:29 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A020.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:55 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:23 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:56:55 carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.90] has joined #lisp 11:00:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-171-252.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:03:11 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:34 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-119-183.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:14 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-170-186.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:09:23 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:07 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:19:41 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:20:13 -!- beach [~user@116.118.8.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:23:26 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 11:24:14 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 11:24:42 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:28:15 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:28:41 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:30:17 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-60-128.prtc.net] has quit [] 11:32:11 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:08 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:06 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:51 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:58:51 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.136.76.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 12:00:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02:58 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:03:08 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has joined #lisp 12:08:52 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:36 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CC40D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:34 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:13:13 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:19 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 12:14:43 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:16:38 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 -!- twbd is now known as twbd_ 12:22:02 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.90] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 12:23:43 Guthur [c743cb8e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.142] has joined #lisp 12:25:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.251.227] has joined #lisp 12:28:03 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has joined #lisp 12:28:13 Hi all! 12:29:50 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.136.76.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:29:57 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-66-138.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 12:31:58 beach [~user@116.118.11.52] has joined #lisp 12:32:54 Good evening everyone! 12:34:45 Bahman: So what is it that makes you so busy you have time to learn neither Scheme nor Common Lisp, if it is not to indiscreet to ask? 12:37:49 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:40:18 beach: Making money :-) I'm living in a country whose situation may change any minute and prices are growing on a daily basis. So 1st and only priority is making enough money on which my family can depend on harsh times. 12:40:23 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:26 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 12:44:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:44:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:25 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:44 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:48:43 francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has joined #lisp 12:49:53 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:45 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:16 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:51:22 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has left #lisp 12:52:50 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 12:55:02 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 12:55:02 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 12:55:02 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:55:42 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:58:47 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:59:25 Bahman, Belarus?) 13:01:12 Bahman: USA? 13:01:59 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0041.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:04 In anycase, tending a garden would probably be more effective than any kind of money (apart some gold and lead), in case of economic turmoil and pending hyperinflation. 13:04:31 wrtp [~rog@92.30.144.148] has joined #lisp 13:04:37 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.30.144.148] has left #lisp 13:05:21 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.94] has joined #lisp 13:06:36 pjb, the USA is too big country for discussion about prices and country situation in economic sence) 13:07:02 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:27 pjb: some think there is a commodity bubble, which if it popped may pull gold prices down with it 13:08:45 probably safe enough long term though 13:09:08 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:09:26 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.112] has joined #lisp 13:09:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.112] has quit [Changing host] 13:09:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:09:37 spurvewt, pjb: Iran. 13:09:52 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:01 sellout- [~Adium@64.134.67.68] has joined #lisp 13:12:05 urandom__ [~user@p548A536C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:08 Guthur: I don't think *anything* is safe in the long term. And I think the long term might come faster than most people imagine. 13:12:32 But that's just me, and perhaps a few others. 13:13:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.251.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:14:40 -!- ayrnieu [~julian@50.15.104.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:43 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:16:08 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.120.66] has joined #lisp 13:18:57 beach, indeed, no such thing as a 'sure thing' 13:26:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.120.66] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:26:43 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:32:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.106.134] has joined #lisp 13:32:24 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.200.92] has joined #lisp 13:34:44 redline6561-work [~redline65@66.6.146.58] has joined #lisp 13:38:02 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:13 rvncerr [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has joined #lisp 13:42:46 clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:31 pnq [~nick@AC815AF7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:35 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:49:50 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has joined #lisp 13:52:10 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:35 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:56:56 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 13:58:49 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:00:39 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:01:51 akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:56 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:05:03 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:08 sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:31 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:33 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:39 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:06 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:59 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:59 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:08:59 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 14:11:38 -!- sellout- [~Adium@64.134.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:04 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:14 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:20 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:42 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:22:38 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:23:14 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:23:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:23:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:27:49 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 14:29:48 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B95E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:05 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:43 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 14:37:21 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 14:40:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.106.134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:51 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:43:01 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.200.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:52 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 14:44:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:01 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0041.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.122.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:50 basho- [~basho-@dslb-188-108-239-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 hi 14:51:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:02 does emacs keeps the history of opened file after restarting the emacs ? 14:55:13 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.217.21] has joined #lisp 14:55:14 Night-hacks: it can. i think it was called something with desktop. 14:55:52 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.97.160] has joined #lisp 14:56:30 jdz: any changes should i do in .emacs ? 14:56:33 or it 14:56:33 Night-hacks: see "saving emacs sessions" in manual 14:56:54 Night-hacks: and #emacs used to be -----> that direction 14:57:05 ... ok thanks 14:57:18 i thought maybe it have different way in slime 14:57:29 that's why i asked here 14:57:36 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:46 Night-hacks: the point of emacs, is to use its standard features. 14:58:52 As for the dirrection, it depends on whether you put the #emacs window on the right of the #lisp window (which is what I do, so it's the case here). 15:00:01 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:15 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 15:00:15 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has joined #lisp 15:02:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:02:25 gko` [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 -!- gko` [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:46 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:26 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:10:28 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:11:56 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:11:57 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:12:16 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 15:13:06 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:14:29 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 15:19:11 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:19 entrix [~entrix@93-80-205-208.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:20:43 iwillig [~iwillig@128.59.150.90] has joined #lisp 15:21:32 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:32 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:32 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 15:22:13 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:35 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:41 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:26 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815AF7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:27:04 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:04 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:41 -!- general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:55 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0098.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:17 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 15:41:58 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43:51 xinming [~hyy@122.238.75.126] has joined #lisp 15:45:16 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CC40D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:45:20 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0098.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:47:56 rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 15:48:52 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:59 -!- symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:20 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:50:39 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.167.97.160] has joined #lisp 15:51:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.97.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:39 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:02:15 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:51 xan_ [~xan@35.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:03:27 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has joined #lisp 16:05:57 pnq [~nick@ACA26D1E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:24 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:13 ChibaPet [~mason@2001:430:ffff:667:5a94:6bff:fe6d:7bcc] has joined #lisp 16:12:39 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-203-96.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:09 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-196-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:08 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:13 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@128.59.150.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:14 enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:23 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:59 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:31:43 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:34:44 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 16:34:57 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-196-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 16:36:04 Bahman1 [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has joined #lisp 16:36:13 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:41 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-146.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:34 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:55 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-199-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:42:24 -!- Dodek is now known as Xyzzyz 16:42:32 -!- Xyzzyz is now known as Dodek 16:42:56 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:43:45 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:01 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:46:12 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:03 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:48:38 -!- Bahman1 [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 16:48:47 foocraft_ [~ewanas@89.211.107.185] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has joined #lisp 16:49:05 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has joined #lisp 16:50:03 bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.139.195] has joined #lisp 16:50:58 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26D1E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:51:45 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:59 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:09 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 16:56:25 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:56:25 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 16:59:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8C7B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:43 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-73-24.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 17:03:03 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:51 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:04 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:08:07 i so miss the good old days of majordomo 17:08:33 when you could request old list messages to be resent, etc 17:08:35 add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:46 bloody stupid mailman 17:09:01 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:10 mailman doesn't even have that feature?? 17:09:29 not last i looked 17:09:35 maybe i should look again 17:10:03 sympa can do that, maybe everyone should switch 17:10:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:33 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 17:12:47 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:25 just like i thought -- doesn't seem to support that 17:18:33 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:16 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:24:12 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:24:39 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:06 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:31:36 -!- noogenesis [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:07 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/283751 # go give it some heat 17:33:17 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:33 -!- arborist [~arborist@e182018010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:52 I think development of majordomo has ceased 17:34:00 ...quite some time ago 17:34:06 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:10 it has 17:35:22 arborist [~arborist@e182018010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:35:49 hence missing the good old days when you cried and set up majordomo, but then it did whatever you could possibly want 17:36:06 except filter spam 17:38:03 nikodemus_: I miss the old days of LISTSERV, where you could send requests to have ftp files be sent you by email split in 64kB chunks. 17:38:07 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@2001:430:ffff:667:5a94:6bff:fe6d:7bcc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:38:13 :) 17:38:20 And even this new things, called the WWW. 17:39:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@35.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:40:54 www? will never catch on 17:42:23 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.139.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:25 Asgeir [~asgeir@78.250.186.42] has joined #lisp 17:44:45 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:03 HG` [~HG@p579F7AA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:15 carlocci [~nes@93.37.207.75] has joined #lisp 17:50:24 hi everyone! I need to specialize some generic functions that uses a database on the type of this database (which can be of type list or clsql's db). my db is bounded to the *storage* special variable, and because I don't want to have to write *storage* at the beginning of every lambda-list, I wanted to place a default storage value for all these methods i'm talking about. BUT I cannot specialize on an optional argument! How can I do that ? Thanks for reading/h 17:51:12 add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:42 Hey, when I do (defun (setf something) ...) in emacs, it doesn't highlight the parenthesis in "(setf". Am I doing something wrong? 17:51:45 (well, when I ask you how I can do that, it's more something like "how can I do that with CLOS?" : I could "specialize" my functions manually depending on the database type) 17:52:15 Bike: (setf something value) 17:52:24 :D 17:52:44 Well, that's not the name of the function, I don't think... 17:52:44 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@66.6.146.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:42 which modes are you using ? 17:54:12 Bike: it doesnt highlight the inner parens when the cursor is on the outer? 17:55:02 or it doesnt highlight the matching paren at all? 17:55:07 (defmacro define-db-method (name lambda-list &body body) `(defmethod ,name ,(cons '*storage* lambda-list) ,@body)) 17:55:10 I mean, when I do (defun something ...) "defun" is in teal since it's a macro, and "something" is in blue, but with (setf x) only the "setf x)" is blue. 17:56:07 Asgeir: seems like you might want to write generic functions that take the database as a required argument. Then you can write regular functions with an optional argument that call those GF's passing in the db. 17:56:41 nikodemus_: my problem is not when defining functions but when calling them 17:56:45 gigamonkeyman has it 17:57:54 gigamonkey: thanks! :D 17:58:06 it took me a while to understand this idea ^^ 18:01:02 Bike: so, what's the problem? first you mentioned something like matching parens are not highlighted, and now you are talking about syntax coloring. 18:01:15 Sorry, I meant coloring in the first place. 18:01:36 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:48 Bike: setf doesnt colorize for me at all. it all depends on how your emacs is configured, what mode you are in, etc. 18:03:08 Okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't defining it wrong. 18:03:16 pjb pasted "forward function to generic function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122603 18:03:46 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:06 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:21 Asgeir: See the paste ^ ; functions required to manipulate lambda lists can be found in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/lisp-sexp/source-form.lisp 18:04:59 (eg. instead of append, you reoally want to parse the lambda-list, and manage it better. 18:05:02 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:05:55 oh, thanks :D 18:05:59 Bike: ah well that would be a different question 18:07:09 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:13 Asgeir: the idea is to define a function that calls the method, with the added parameter. 18:11:26 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:13 pnq [~nick@AC81183F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:46 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:25 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.167.97.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:13 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:38:53 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@143.93.249.79] has joined #lisp 18:41:52 add^_^ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:05 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:15 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:43:15 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 18:44:21 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:37 Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:49 benny [~benny@i577A2B5F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:45:50 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-mznkcuurwtpoxqha] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 -!- symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:23 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:01 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:18 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.39.163] has joined #lisp 18:51:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:47 The word "ftp" appears in my codebase almost 1200 times. F*** I hate enterprise. . . . 18:52:21 is it idiomatic to use defmacro to write an alias for a function ? 18:52:29 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 Asgeir: How do you mean? 18:53:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:25 for exemple (defmacro post (str) `(hunchentoot:post-parameter ,str)) 18:53:39 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 18:53:47 to use post instead of post-parameter 18:54:07 Asgeir: nope. 18:54:17 ok, thanks :D 18:54:44 You could (setf fdefinition), or at least try and discover more useful patterns to refactor. 18:56:27 thanks :D 18:59:25 hum. I want to import hunchentoot:use-parameter, but I've already defined (accidentaly) this symbol in my package. thus I (unintern 'post-parameter) in my package, but i still can't import hunchentoot:post-parameter 18:59:48 -!- freiksenet is now known as zfreiksenet 19:00:58 What's wrong with (hunchentoot:post-parameter ...) ? 19:01:09 -!- zfreiksenet is now known as freiksenet 19:01:14 rncarpio [~rncarpio@ppp-71-128-109-221.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:01:32 too long ^^ 19:01:47 Asgeir: use slime: it can complete it easily. 19:01:59 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:29 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.209.160] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 19:03:05 yes, but it's too long to read! 19:03:30 You need bigger eyes. 19:03:40 Asgeir: if you're using slime, inspect the symbol post-parameter and unintern it from there. 19:03:49 also, did you use the hunchentoot package? 19:04:07 C-c I post-parameter RET, then hit [unintern] 19:04:16 rednum` [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 19:04:52 I don't use hunchentoot package ; thanks :D 19:05:12 that's how you get rid of the package prefixes (: 19:05:44 -!- rednum [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:05:44 Asgeir: then you can: (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.package:add-nickname :hunchentoot :h) and write (h:post-parameter ...) 19:06:48 antifuchs: yes, but when you only need a few hunchentoot symbols, you should only import the symbols you want to use, isn't it ? 19:07:01 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:06 pjb: why is importing so bad ? 19:08:58 It's not bad. 19:09:11 Asgeir: but you have a collision! 19:09:31 oh ^^ 19:09:35 Why do you intern a symbol with the same name as the one you want to import? 19:09:42 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:09:54 I accidentaly typed post-parameter in the REPL 19:10:02 (instead of hunchentoot:post-parameter) 19:10:36 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:42 -!- arborist [~arborist@e182018010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:10:42 Anyone remember the quote on a mailing list about FORMAT? Something along the lines of "here's a kvetch to ..." ? 19:10:54 (defpackage "YOUR-APPLICATION" (:use "COMMON-LISP" "HUNCHENTOOT")) (in-package "YOUR-APPLICATION") 19:11:05 peterhil` [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:11:47 yes 19:14:16 good bye, and thanks for your help(s) ! 19:14:19 -!- Asgeir [~asgeir@78.250.186.42] has quit [Quit: mi tawa!] 19:21:31 francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has joined #lisp 19:27:34 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:42 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2B5F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 19:30:26 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:31:30 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81183F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:22 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 19:37:45 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:56 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-73-24.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.210.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:48 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-10-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:50:20 -!- Guthur [c743cb8e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.142] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:50:34 Guthur_ [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 19:52:13 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-133-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:57:46 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:58:34 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-10-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:12 -!- ianmcorvidae is now known as ianmcorividaesky 20:01:12 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:29 -!- ocharles is now known as ocharlesky 20:02:19 -!- ianmcorividaesky is now known as ianmcorvidaesky 20:02:25 jdz [~jdz@host80-110-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:03:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:43 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:57 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:06:19 -!- basho- [~basho-@dslb-188-108-239-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:32 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@143.93.249.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:15:31 -!- ianmcorvidaesky is now known as ianmcorvidae 20:15:46 maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has joined #lisp 20:16:53 -!- maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has left #lisp 20:17:07 general-general [~marypatri@86-46-61-67-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:33 hm.. cl-twitter kills inferior sbcl 20:18:45 doesn't seem to happen standalone 20:21:25 varjag: what does *inferior-lisp* say? 20:21:33 and what's your platform & sbcl version? 20:22:41 Lisp connection closed unexpectedly: connection broken by remote peer 20:24:26 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:24:50 slime checked out in march from cvs head 20:25:01 maybe i should update 20:25:55 one sec 20:26:15 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:26:35 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 20:27:13 varjag pasted "*inferior-lisp*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122608 20:28:40 twbd__ [~willem@91.177.188.184] has joined #lisp 20:30:14 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@93.135.240.4] has joined #lisp 20:31:08 tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:41 -!- twbd_ [~willem@91.177.177.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:05 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:33:04 He left. 20:33:34 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.39.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:33:56 timeout, possibly bad connection 20:34:39 I suppose it's a session encoding problem  I have my slime set up for utf-8 where possible. 20:34:50 I was suspecting the same 20:35:17 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:35:41 sorry, lost the link 20:35:46 varjag, check the logs 20:35:53 #lisp logs 20:36:38 varjag: Try: (set-language-environment "UTF-8") (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix); we suspect it's an encoding problem on the wire. 20:36:50 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-203-96.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:37:27 i see 20:37:33 thanks people, gonna try that 20:38:12 tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:38:12 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:34 perfect 20:40:39 thanks! 20:41:54 Cool. 20:42:48 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:201:4aff:fef3:f0d4] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:46:27 -!- entrix [~entrix@93-80-205-208.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:17 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 20:47:29 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 20:50:23 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:47 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 21:00:47 npoektop_ [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 -!- npoektop_ [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:34 sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.145] has joined #lisp 21:02:51 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:02:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:02 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:03:58 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 21:05:32 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:32 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:40 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:12:26 Does anyone have suggestions on literature about pseudorandom number generators? 21:12:44 knuth: seminumerical algorithms 21:14:10 tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 21:14:11 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:38 Kenjin: 21:15:47 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:40 thanks ;) 21:19:32 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 21:21:37 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:43 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:20 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7AA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:25 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:50 Landr [~user@78-21-49-168.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:42:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:09 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:03 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:03 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 21:55:27 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:55:43 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:12 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h235n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:56:32 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:57:01 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:35 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:36 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:59:55 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:56 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:25 arborist [~arborist@e182020106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:42 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:54 Good morning everyone! 22:13:54 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:35 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:14:40 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:18:16 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:59 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:59 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:04 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 22:20:09 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.209.123] has joined #lisp 22:24:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:09 -!- arborist [~arborist@e182020106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:29:56 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:38:11 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:45 -!- rednum` [~user@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:20 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:43:20 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:16 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:16 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:47:33 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 22:48:01 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-170-186.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:05 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:50:35 Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 22:52:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:48 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:55:33 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 22:56:18 Section 1.4.2 of the Common Lisp HyperSpec doesn't have a definition of "it is an error if..." as far as I can see, but such a phrase exists on the page for CONCATENATE. Does anyone know a place in the Common Lisp HyperSpec that defines what this phrase means? 22:57:22 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-8.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:27 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-49-168.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:55 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 22:59:40 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-11-93.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:02:16 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:03:06 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:15 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:57 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-8.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:07:31 no multiple-value support in iterate? 23:08:47 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.170.23] has joined #lisp 23:10:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:19 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:25 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:32 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:52 Landr [~user@78-22-146-181.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:12:58 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:02 -!- Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 23:14:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:21 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:57 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-84-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:18:53 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-37-206.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:40 thom_logn [~thom@pool-108-38-79-155.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:44 -!- thom_logn is now known as blurk 23:24:50 oGMo: I thought (for (values foo bar baz) = (values 1 2 3) would work 23:25:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@host80-110-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:19 antifuchs: will try 23:26:54 -!- tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:23 -!- ocharlesky is now known as ocharles 23:33:23 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:36:35 Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 23:37:10 -!- sid3k` [~user@li298-167.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:58 jdz [~jdz@host253-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:38:23 sid3k` [~user@li298-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:44 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:39:22 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-204-161.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:40:03 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:40:03 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 23:40:41 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:46 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 23:44:06 Are there any generic (not implementation defined) conditions for file/directory access? 23:44:51 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:09 yrjokin [~yrjokin@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust458.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:59 -!- Vowyer [~sebas@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:22 -!- yrjokin [~yrjokin@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust458.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:28 xenonx [~xenon@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 23:55:53 hello. can someone recommend me a good portable thread library? 23:59:03 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-111-147.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp