00:01:16 *beach* reiterates the desire for an annotatable Common Lisp HyperSpec. 00:03:22 *|3b|* ponders a clhs-specific annotation bookmarklet 00:03:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:32 <|3b|> i guess having to click something to check for annotations would be annoying 00:06:25 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:09:11 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:09:30 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:14:09 Wow, that page doesn't even say in which order the elements are passed to the test functions. 00:14:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:14:38 One assumes that the first argument comes from SEQUENCE-1 and the second from SEQUENCE-2. 00:19:57 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:27 beach: I think it's specified for all sequence functions somewhere else. 00:22:59 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:23:53 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:23:59 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:42 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-114-236.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:01 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:36 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:26:36 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-134-134.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:26:54 pkhuong: Hmm, that rings a bell. 00:27:03 *beach* browses. 00:27:06 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.3.236] has joined #lisp 00:30:10 *beach* can't find it. 00:31:16 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 00:31:22 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:17 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.148.46] has left #lisp 00:35:09 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.129] has joined #lisp 00:35:47 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:14 -!- pjb is now known as Guest2625 00:37:11 -!- Guest2625 is now known as pjb` 00:37:44 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 00:43:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-ccwrwxgqpctqizcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:44:02 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:44:09 <|3b|> 17.2.1 seems to cover it 00:44:41 <|3b|> not very clearly though (particularly when :key is involved) 00:45:41 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.164.76] has joined #lisp 00:45:47 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:56 -!- Kruppe` [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:12 Kruppe` [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:16 |3b|: Not very clearly indeed. 00:52:18 <|3b|> i guess SEARCH matches the 'being considered iteratively' well enough to say the sequence-1 is O, so elements from that are passed first 00:59:33 gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:16 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:22 McMAGIC-1Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 01:15:41 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:07 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812A93.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:21:38 _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.192] has joined #lisp 01:22:20 pnq [~nick@AC812A93.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:47 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:05 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:59 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-196-60.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:27:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:22 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:35 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.209.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:58 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:39:09 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:40:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A72E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:35 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 01:49:32 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:39 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 01:49:53 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:50:00 what's the best git repo for slime? 01:52:02 *|3b|* uses git://sbcl.boinkor.net/slime.git 01:52:18 pyrony [~epic@173-126-26-50.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:58:00 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 02:01:32 |3b|: thanks. I'll use it too. 02:02:22 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:58 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:11 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:24 |3b|: wrt SEARCH etc, I think the intentions are clear. I am just interested in whether the wording is clear as well. No sane implementation would violate the intentions I would think. 02:12:59 huangho [~vitor@201-66-170-153.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:13:15 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:13:22 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 02:15:32 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 02:19:16 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.207.27] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:20:08 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:20:30 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.3.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:21:40 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.4.252] has joined #lisp 02:28:09 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:42 huangho_ [~vitor@201-66-166-156.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:28:45 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:58 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:29:20 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-170-153.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:34 -!- gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:37:09 -!- pyrony [~epic@173-126-26-50.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:41:42 pyrony [~epic@108.112.235.117] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:44:32 lisp_forth [70524ee7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.82.78.231] has joined #lisp 02:45:10 hello everyone 02:45:22 long time not meet 02:46:10 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:15 -!- pyrony [~epic@108.112.235.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:00 felideon [~felideon@adsl-98-64-196-82.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:33 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has joined #lisp 02:50:03 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 02:51:01 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 02:52:52 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-21-36.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:00 stlxv [~chatzilla@113.89.71.114] has joined #lisp 02:54:44 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-114-236.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:02 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-171.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:45 so I've decided I a new solution for persistent data. I've got ~1M "things" -- which may involve a few "objects" per thing -- in about 100 Mb of data. Not huge, but big enough that I don't want to parse the flatfiles every time. I've been using rucksack but feel the urge to remove it. suggestions? 02:58:12 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-155-5.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:54 Just keep the data in the lisp image and save the lisp image when convenient. 02:59:49 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00:24 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-21-36.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00:30 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 03:00:40 -!- lisp_forth [70524ee7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.82.78.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:02:59 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.129] has joined #lisp 03:05:44 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:54 slyrus: seconded, images are interesting to work with 03:08:16 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:34 Anyone here on tbnl-devel? 03:08:36 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.4.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:09:04 Unless you want to scale in any regard. 03:09:23 slyrus: I almost agree with pjb. Keep it in the Lisp image, but save it in some easily parsable format like what I do for Gsharp for instance. 03:09:40 slyrus: There are a couple of things for serializing (almost) arbitrary lisp objects as text. 03:10:10 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.106.6] has joined #lisp 03:10:16 hmm... Ok. 03:10:22 slyrus: That way, you can always read it back in after modifying the code, provided you give suitable :initforms and/or initializ-instance :afters. 03:10:47 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-197-211.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:14 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-155-5.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18:45 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.129] has joined #lisp 03:19:51 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 03:21:26 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:21:44 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:50 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@host212-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:26:17 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-119-162.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:55 slyrus: cl-store might be what you're after. 03:28:24 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-197-211.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:34:45 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.164.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:26 any reason why a call to (sort result #'> :key #'cadr) would give me less elements in a list than when i started? 03:35:39 nevermind, figured it out 03:35:47 forgot to setf result after 03:36:06 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:40 jdz [~jdz@host65-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:37:06 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 03:40:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:40:46 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.52.192] has joined #lisp 03:41:54 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:46:49 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has joined #lisp 03:50:11 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50:39 -!- jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.31.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:52:45 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: :|] 03:54:08 redline6_ [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:21 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:55:58 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 03:56:19 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:51 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:57 -!- Kruppe` [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:14:55 Zhivago: actually, I do use cl-store as well, but I think I was thinking that eventually these datasets might grow to be larger than what I want in the heap and that some sort of indexed database-like thing (like rucksasck) might be in order. 04:18:06 slyrus: foreign heap and mmap ;) 04:18:33 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.91.250] has joined #lisp 04:20:58 the other thing to do would be to figure out why the &*@$! inserting objects into rucksack is so slow, fix the problem and then keep using rucksack... 04:21:15 but that's been on the to do list for a long time and I can't seem to get it done 04:21:20 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-98-64-196-82.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:22:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.52.192] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:23:40 -!- huangho_ [~vitor@201-66-166-156.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:49 -!- redline6_ [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:32:53 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:42:01 Anybody using postmodern/postgres - internally it names the prepared query "" I assume so it always gets overridden. . . is there a way to name it something else and delete the same prepared query? I don't see anything in the API that deletes a prepared query. 04:42:09 Or does the transaction take care of that? 04:42:41 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:36 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has joined #lisp 04:49:18 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has joined #lisp 04:49:31 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:35 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:01 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05:33 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:08:18 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:09:00 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.52.192] has joined #lisp 05:09:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:04 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-152-31.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:18:18 sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:20 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:18:37 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:22:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:24:17 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7FBA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:24:23 setmeaway [stemearay@183.106.96.30] has joined #lisp 05:24:53 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 05:25:16 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:26:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:01 slyrus: is every object insertion done within a transaction? If so, and the end of a transaction physically commits data to disk, that could be quite slow 05:30:21 no, the transactions batch 1000s (or so) of insertions 05:30:24 I'm only speculating though as I only read http://weitz.de/eclm2006/rucksack-eclm2006.txt and never used it or checked its code 05:31:05 another possibility would have to do with the GC 05:31:42 but it seems that freed space is put in a list, so in theory new object allocation should find room quite fast 05:32:05 hello 05:32:45 unless perhaps new object allocation causes a gc run everytime (even if incremental) once the gc-allocated heap is full 05:34:04 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:37:19 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:39:02 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-117-128.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:57 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.163.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:43 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-174-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:56 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:10 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-174-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:24 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-119-162.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:43:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@host65-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:44:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:38 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 05:47:32 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:47:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:41 kejordan [~nacserver@59.108.29.170] has joined #lisp 05:51:06 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:51:32 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-136-94.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:32 -!- kejordan [~nacserver@59.108.29.170] has left #lisp 05:52:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:53:39 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-117-128.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:16 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 05:57:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:55 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 06:07:21 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:07:39 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 06:12:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:54 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:34 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 06:14:00 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 06:14:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:14:36 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.106.6] has quit [] 06:14:56 -!- McMAGIC-1Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:37 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:15:42 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:15:56 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:15:56 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:15:56 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:16:48 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:20:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:09 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:51 plage [~user@183.91.29.147] has joined #lisp 06:32:13 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:37:51 Good afternoon everyone! 06:38:05 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-jytyqygadtfcjcup] has joined #lisp 06:38:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-jytyqygadtfcjcup] has quit [Changing host] 06:38:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:38:18 -!- beach [~user@116.118.2.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:40:11 Uh, oh! 06:40:38 When beach quits, it usually means a power cut at home. 06:41:57 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.44.154.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:42:17 ramus [~ramus@99.44.154.164] has joined #lisp 06:42:39 frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 06:42:41 hi 06:42:46 (defun flatten (list) (loop for x in list if (listp x) append (flatten x) else collect x)) 06:42:47 hello frx 06:42:56 is this tail recursion? 06:43:13 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-97.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:41 frx: No. 06:43:43 flatten could call itself multiple times, so no. 06:45:29 frx: Why do you care? 06:45:34 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-136-94.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:46:09 curiosity 06:47:22 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 06:47:28 is there a way to rewrite that to allow tail call optimization 06:47:43 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:47:48 frx: Sure. 06:47:59 frx: Start by getting rid of loop. 06:48:20 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.44.154.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:56 frx: Then pass to flatten the thing to flatten, and the information required to continue flattening the rest of the text. 06:49:31 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:50:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.52.192] has quit [Quit: reboot emacs] 06:50:34 frx: Such rewrites usually make the code less readable, and you probably won't win anything in performance. 06:54:51 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:57:17 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-195-209.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:38 hello, does anybody know it the cache creation for a caching file server is usually a blocking operation or not ? 07:00:22 isnt it considered a bad style though to write recursion without tail call optimization? since you could break stack 07:00:45 <|3b|> it is considered bad style to use recursion to implement iteration (in CL at least) 07:00:50 i know it's not likely that list will be deep enough to cause a problem here.. but still 07:01:02 |3b| why? 07:01:02 People write recursive code in languages without tail call optimization all the time. 07:01:19 <|3b|> because CL doesn't require TCO, so even tail-recursive code might run out of stack 07:01:20 the CL standard, unlike Scheme, doesn't specify that implementations must support tail-call optimization, so relying on it would be unportable 07:01:26 frx: I agree with |3b|. Don't use recursion on linear structures. Use iteration instead. 07:01:34 <|3b|> also, CL has lots of perfectly good iteration constructs, so pretty silly not to use them :) 07:01:39 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:02:05 |3b|: Use recursion only when it is adapted to the problem, such as for tree structures. 07:02:06 plage what about on nested structures 07:02:23 as in the code i pasted above 07:02:30 frx: If the structure is not linear, the depth is usually not going to be a problem 07:03:40 <|3b|> in the case of obviously recursive algorithms and/or data structure (like this case), i'd say write the recursion however is clearest, and only worry about stack if you actually run out (or if you can tell in advance 'normal' usage is likely to do so) 07:03:46 ok. btw don't all CL implementations implement tail-call optimizations? or at least all popular? 07:03:57 -!- Krystof [~csr21@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:04:24 <|3b|> many do, but usually only in certain situations (combinations of compiled or not, debug settings, optimization, etc) 07:04:25 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:04:29 any sane compiler implementor would include tail call optimization when possible 07:04:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:04:49 kiuma: if you're asking if calling read(2) on unix should block, it might block the thread or process until the information was read from disk if it's not in the buffer cache, unless the kernel supports polling for FS related operations (some AIO implementations allow this) 07:05:00 <|3b|> and it might not be obvious what makes code non-tail-recursive, like binding specials, restarts, etc 07:05:30 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:54 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-152-31.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:09 A tail call is equivalent to calling a continuation. 07:07:20 Understanding continuations is sufficient. 07:09:05 how come CL did not guarantee tail-call optimization? 07:09:11 phadthai, no I wanted to know this. I'm implementing an http server. I want to be able to use gzip encoding on some static resource file. Since gzipping a 20Mb can be time consuming (among other things) I was thinking to use an internal file cache. I wanted to know if when creating a file cache the http server should be stopped, or more precisely if it's a common use to stop serving requests while caching 07:09:14 -!- frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 07:10:01 s/stopped/blocked/ 07:10:07 <|3b|> kennyd: probably a combination of one or more of the lisp being unified not having it, it being less important with lots of iteration primitives, and interaction with other features 07:10:31 <|3b|> kiuma: i wouldn't expect it to stop 07:10:55 hmm I guess that it'd make sense if other requests accessing the same resource had to wait until the file is ready; probably not for other resources 07:12:01 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:12:26 kennyd: Because tail-call optimization might have placed a burden on some vendors. 07:12:27 |3b|, I feared this :(. And it makes things very complicated, since my server is event based, and mixing an event based server with multithreading is not a trivial task. ... I need more pondering 07:14:20 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-196-60.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:14:24 not to speak about mixing with request pipelining 07:15:14 <|3b|> kiuma: hmm, would serving that 1 file block other requests without the compression? 07:16:01 without compression or already compressed makes no difference 07:16:30 <|3b|> 'no difference' as in it wouldn't block other requests? 07:16:34 I'll have to pass throught internal cache anyway 07:16:37 I mostly used persistent processes for http application backends, then non-blocking, non-threaded frontend proxy/load balancing servers; in that model the application server would be zipping; but I understand the frontend httpd becomes complicated if it supports dynamic gzipping static documents 07:17:19 perhaps those documents could be pre-zipped by another periodic process? 07:18:05 I'm plannig to do something more 'general' 07:18:11 and the non-compressed document sent if the compressed one is not yet available 07:18:16 <|3b|> i think you could compress it transparently without extra threads, but supporting multiple requests for the same file before it is fully compressed efficiently is a bit messy 07:19:36 <|3b|> actually, i guess multiple requests is a bit messy either way 07:19:51 it is 07:20:01 -!- catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-uzjvungbwsaolcyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:35 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21:11 an what about this compromise: blocking all requests that need the creation of a cache, while permitting all already cached ? 07:21:43 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:21:46 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-vrtnasxwupoyxyki] has joined #lisp 07:21:49 <|3b|> of a particular file you mean? that is probably more reasonable, if you can't just send it uncompressed until the compressed version finishes 07:22:12 I don't know if it's a good solution anyway, and overall if I gain speed instead of say ngnix + proxy/myserver 07:24:00 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:24:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:25:02 *|3b|* would probably just let nginx deal with if possible 07:26:16 yea, I'm starting to think that handling gzip compression and so caching from the http server is not the right choice 07:26:58 <|3b|> not so much 'wrong' as 'already solved, and doesn't need to interact with lisp code very much, so less reason to reimplement it in cl' 07:27:22 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:32 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:51 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:30 |3b|, do you mean ngnix + cl-http-server ? 07:29:46 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:26 <|3b|> right, nginx handles the boring stuff like caching and static files well, so might as well let it deal with that part for now 07:30:51 <|3b|> eventually it would be nice to have the whole thing in CL, but better to start with the interesting parts 07:31:49 argiopeweb [~elliot@175.40.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:32:05 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:32:19 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:20 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-195-209.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:56 ramus [~ramus@99.23.130.240] has joined #lisp 07:40:19 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-33-96.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:41:21 I agree that it makes more sense to use CL on the application-server side for now, that's also where CL's high level features will benefit the most 07:42:14 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-38-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:42:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:42:58 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:10 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:44:13 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:44:23 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 07:45:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75411e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:34 you convinced me 07:47:01 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:47:08 do you think 'interesing' serving byte-ranges requests from the app server ? 07:47:34 StaphieBeer [~kvirc@70-37-215-26.nntc.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:08 or is it still handled by the proxy ? 07:48:44 <|3b|> depends on the app being served 07:49:10 <|3b|> most of the stuff i do, i'd probably just break the data into small pieces that can be served independently 07:49:11 if the server frontend httpd handles the static files, that's where byte ranges would be used the most, but if your application server must serve large predictable dynamic content supporting it might also make sense 07:50:23 isismelting [~jo@ip72-197-227-251.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:45 -!- isismelting [~jo@ip72-197-227-251.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 07:53:23 an exemple would be large files streamed by the application server if authentication is necessary to access them and that it's not possible to instead send a link to a static/cached hard to guess filename in an non-indexable directory 07:54:24 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.27.21] has joined #lisp 07:55:36 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.27.21] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:53 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:55:54 -!- StaphieBeer [~kvirc@70-37-215-26.nntc.net] has left #lisp 07:56:07 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.27.21] has joined #lisp 08:00:22 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@175.40.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:23 bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.142.140] has joined #lisp 08:02:53 isismelting [~jo@ip72-197-227-251.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:21 minion: where can i read about strings? 08:03:22 behind you! 08:03:34 minion: lisp manual 08:03:35 i like lisp... i'm written in it 08:03:47 minion: eliza 08:03:48 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``eliza''. 08:04:04 hey minion can you link me to a lisp tutorial? 08:04:13 minion can you link me to a lisp tutorial? 08:04:20 minion? 08:05:12 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:21 -!- isismelting [~jo@ip72-197-227-251.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 08:05:25 minion: tell isismelting about PCL and OL 08:05:29 oops 08:05:30 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:26 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:09:08 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 08:11:19 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 08:13:56 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:03 -!- plage [~user@183.91.29.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20:08 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812A93.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23:20 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 08:25:13 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-dkvveaxxhasawkcg] has joined #lisp 08:31:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:31:48 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 08:32:18 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:43 -!- BlankVerse 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[~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 09:16:04 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:17:17 -!- qlife_ [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:20 -!- twbd is now known as twbd|away 09:17:24 qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:17:40 markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:21:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:22:49 -!- qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:56 qlife [~qlife@alumni.cs.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:23:06 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.142.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:23:28 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:24:55 -!- stlxv [~chatzilla@113.89.71.114] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 09:26:32 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Quit: Byes!] 09:30:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:30:42 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 09:32:03 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:40:37 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.16.67] has joined #lisp 09:40:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:42:20 Hi all! 09:45:40 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 09:45:59 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:01 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 09:53:58 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 09:53:59 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:54:00 -!- phoodus [~davidh@68.107.217.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:13 -!- Phooodus is now known as Phoodus 09:55:01 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:59:42 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 10:00:42 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 10:01:23 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:44 drks [~maln@93-141-116-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:09:07 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:11:47 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:20:07 this may seem like a stupid question, but how do you print carriage return in lisp? (\r in C) 10:20:56 (terpri) 10:21:06 or ~& resp. ~% in format 10:21:20 gonzojive [~red@101.109.66.101] has joined #lisp 10:21:23 the characters are #\r and #\n IIRC 10:21:29 no 10:21:41 both ~& and ~% print newline in here 10:21:45 #\return and #\linefeed, but see the spec 10:21:51 or use (code-char 13) 10:22:21 and it's #\newline not #\linefeed 10:22:42 although #\linefeed might work sometimes 10:22:48 if I type #\linefeed in clisp repl I get #\newline back 10:23:11 drks: that's why you should use CODE-CHAR 10:23:43 okay. is this clisp issue or standard wasn't specific about this 10:23:59 let me try sbcl 10:24:02 #\linefeed is semi-standard (see 13.1.7) 10:24:39 gonzojive_ [~red@101.109.66.101] has joined #lisp 10:24:41 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.66.101] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:51 don't have standard handy at the moment. (code-char 13) return #\return on both sbcl and clisp 10:24:56 http://l1sp.org/cl/13.1.7 10:25:50 ok thanks 10:26:38 ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-17-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:27:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-40-55.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:27:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-40-55.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:27:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:27:02 gonzojive [~red@101.109.83.254] has joined #lisp 10:28:20 -!- nannto__ [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:29:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:30:40 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 10:31:10 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@101.109.66.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:06 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326B36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:07 what's the difference between quicklisp and asdf-install aside from the centralized storage of tarballs? 10:34:22 only one of them is awesome 10:34:28 active curation 10:34:29 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326682.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:36:14 gonzojive: quicklisp is actually alive 10:36:44 micke` [~user@147.186.255.4] has joined #lisp 10:37:25 *|3b|* seems to remember asdf-install trying to load every .asd in whatever it downloads too 10:37:49 oh shoot, I see my question as #1 on the FAQ 10:40:10 does quicklisp keep up to date on any changes committed to projects? How do project authors control releases and versions? 10:40:37 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-133-109.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:41:49 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:59 gonzojive: they don't, yet. or rather, they prod Xach when a need arises. 10:42:17 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:43:18 <|3b|> from what i understand, every month or so, xach pulls new code from upstream, and if it still builds it goes out to quicklisp 10:44:13 <|3b|> i think if you want to limit releases you could tell xach to pull from a specific branch/tag/tarball/whatever 10:47:20 bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.139.132] has joined #lisp 10:49:24 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.83.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:52:46 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 10:53:22 gonzojive [~red@101.109.83.254] has joined #lisp 10:58:10 sounds good to me. it would be nice to get the server open sourced, too, just in case Xach falls illl or something tragic 11:02:25 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:36 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 11:09:14 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:33 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:58 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.139.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:10 <|3b|> doesn't seem like it would be too hard, only part that is missing that i know of is the bit that automates actually downloading and testing the stuff, and i think at least a few of the important bits of that are available too 11:14:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:14:42 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-211-17.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:15:24 <|3b|> there isn't really a 'server' part of quicklisp, just a bunch of files available over http 11:15:46 beach [~user@116.118.2.34] has joined #lisp 11:16:40 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:17:07 Is there already something that compares LISP code for differences, ignoring (ie. fixing) order of bindings in LET, correctly checking for gensyms, etc? 11:17:20 I'd like to compare the output of macro expansions 11:18:15 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:18:26 <|3b|> well, you can bind *gensym-counter*, which helps a bit 11:18:32 -!- beach [~user@116.118.2.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:44 <|3b|> figuring out if the initialization values of LET bindings had side effects sounds annoying though, not sure how often you would want to allow those to be reordered 11:20:36 beach [~user@116.118.8.204] has joined #lisp 11:30:12 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.83.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 11:31:59 -!- twbd|away is now known as twbd|away|echt 11:33:10 bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has joined #lisp 11:33:57 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 11:36:05 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:03 tcr1 [~tcr@188.33.150.204] has joined #lisp 11:43:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:44:23 pnq [~nick@ACA204D9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:39 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:48:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-251.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:51:29 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:40 no, it's just about (let ((a ...) (b...))) and (let ((b ...)(a ...))) show no _textual_ difference - that the side effects while running could make a difference is ok 11:55:16 I just want to compare two S-Expressions, like "diff -u" - but getting things like different gensyms automatically adjusted 11:55:17 does the official SBCL Linux x86 binary support Unicode and threading? 11:56:14 z0d: define "official" 11:56:30 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:56:35 the one on sbcl.org 11:57:13 z0d: well, you can download and check *features* 11:58:53 z0d: but i'm pretty sure it does support both 11:58:54 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@188.33.150.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:02 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:25 indeed 12:05:22 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:08:19 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:09:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has joined #lisp 12:16:41 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:16:43 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:34 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:19:59 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 12:21:23 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:21:32 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:50 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:23:54 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA204D9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:20 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:39 -!- micke` [~user@147.186.255.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:07 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 12:32:11 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-97.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 12:33:23 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-97.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-116-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:37:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:40:28 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B334.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:09 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:47 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:16 gonzojive [~red@101.109.84.6] has joined #lisp 12:43:30 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:43:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:45:09 Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:45:38 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:45 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:08 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:49:11 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 12:50:37 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 12:51:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-101.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:32 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.84.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:55:05 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:55:14 gonzojive [~red@101.109.73.63] has joined #lisp 12:56:42 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-211-17.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:57:39 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-63-237.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:58:27 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has joined #lisp 12:59:36 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:02:16 hi 13:02:58 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:24 can we say => let form in function body is (defun test(file) (let ...)) instead of (defun draw-rgb (file) ((let ... )) because let is special operator not function or macro ? 13:05:38 Night-hacks: That didn't make much sense. Can you try to say it some other way? 13:06:04 why we dont write let in () ? 13:06:34 we just write straight in defun body 13:06:52 Night-hacks: That is not particular to LET. 13:07:11 Night-hacks: That is true with all forms in the body of a DEFUN. 13:07:22 Night-hacks: and generally every pair of parenthesis are meaningful in lisp 13:07:23 Night-hacks: (defun ff (x) (+ x 2)) 13:08:07 Night-hacks: Why had you imagined that the LET form would be wrapped in another pair of ()? 13:08:34 beach: thats what i dont know yet ! 13:08:52 beach: suppose adding (* x 2) to ff function 13:09:02 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:29 is it (defun ff (x) ((+ x 2) (* x 2))) ? 13:09:31 Night-hacks: Then the answer is approximately: You don't ever use parentheses to regroup expressions in Lisp, because as jdz points out, that changes the meaning of the code, usually it becomes invalid. 13:10:01 Night-hacks: That is invalid Common Lisp. 13:10:17 beach: why ? 13:10:39 i have two sexp in body of my function 13:10:45 Night-hacks: Because the first element of a list should be one of: lambda, special operator, function or macro. 13:10:48 not really, you have only one 13:10:52 But not another list. 13:10:57 Night-hacks: To group expressions (and return the value of the last one), use PROGN as in (progn (+ x 2) (* x 2)), but in the case of DEFUN, it contains an implicit progn, so you can write (defun ff (x) (+ x 2) (* x 2)) 13:11:22 naryl: ((lambda (x) (1+ x) 5) works :D 13:11:36 dlowe: s/lambda/lambda form/ 13:11:38 (and of course the result of (+ x 2) will be lost and is dead code, anyway) 13:11:41 well, it would if I balanced the parens correctly :p 13:11:43 Or how do you call it properly? :) 13:12:12 Night-hacks: Why? Because Common Lisp doesn't use parentheses to regroup expressions arbitrarily the way other languages (and mathematics) do. 13:12:48 parentheses are an explicit function call or special operator form 13:13:02 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:13:03 Night-hacks: In CL, x means the value of the variable x, but (x) means the value of calling the function x on zero arguments. 13:14:12 Night-hacks: you know how 'let' can take any number of arguments in its body? same thing with defun 13:14:29 anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:35 (let vars &body body) vs (defun params &body body) 13:14:57 vs (progn &body body) 13:15:14 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.73.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:15:18 Phoodus: all the same 13:15:36 yep, and all the same in terms of returning the value of the last expression of the body 13:16:08 (though there are some forms do not do that, like (prog1 val &body rest) that will return val regardless of what the body evaluates to) 13:16:44 oops, (defun name params &body body) 13:17:16 Phoodus: aww, but you left out docstring and declarations! 13:17:23 heh 13:17:32 but how (defun ff (x) (+ x 2) (* x 2)) can be right ? where is body parantheses ? 13:17:42 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has joined #lisp 13:17:53 Night-hacks: Body parentheses? 13:17:54 Night-hacks: the body is an implicit progn 13:17:58 &body is a synonym for &rest, which means "everything else in the form". You don't need parens 13:18:09 to surround just the body 13:18:20 everything from the params to the close paren is the body 13:18:41 *Phoodus* muffles jdz ;) 13:19:03 got it now 13:19:05 Night-hacks: you're committing the classic error of thinking that lisp is text. It isn't. The text is parsed into data objects using a simple format using parentheses. 13:19:13 Night-hacks: Do you know about &rest parameters? 13:19:25 drdo: yeah 13:19:26 The data objects are what the language is made of, not the text. 13:19:57 Night-hacks: well, &body is just another name for &rest 13:19:57 think needs a long time to be familiar with all of the language concepts 13:20:19 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:20:25 Night-hacks: it is actually quite simple 13:20:38 Night-hacks: in lisp you have either atoms or lists 13:20:48 ok 13:20:50 Night-hacks: atoms are things like numbers, strings, symbols, etc 13:20:54 jdz: the CL evaluation model is not simple at all 13:21:06 Night-hacks: list is a collection of either atoms or other lists 13:21:14 drdo: conceptially it is 13:21:20 when I make a concatenate stream opening two files, when I'm done, is it sufficient to close the concatented stream, or I need to close the two file streams too ? 13:21:30 Night-hacks: so, atoms evaluate to themselves 13:21:46 jdz: Collection? A *sequence* rather. 13:21:52 gonzojive [~red@101.109.93.52] has joined #lisp 13:22:05 Night-hacks: evaluation of a list is a bit trickier: lisp must check what the first element of the list is to see what to do 13:22:24 jdz: 13:22:24 Night-hacks: if it is a function, it calls it with the result of evaluation the remainder of the list 13:22:27 oops, sorry. 13:22:34 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:22:38 Night-hacks: if it is a macro, the macro is expanded before evaluation 13:23:00 Night-hacks: that's why putting (+ x 2) in the first position of a list does not make much sense 13:23:03 huangho [~vitor@201-41-1-145.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:23:48 beach: yeah, forgive my sloppiness; i hope my noble intentions will make up for that. 13:24:25 jdz: not all atoms evaluate to themselves. 13:24:25 beach: well, it's also a collection, but a sequence is more specific :P 13:24:46 zfx: shush 13:24:47 Night-hacks: please look at the evaluation section of the HyperSpec. 13:25:18 jdz: it is a fundamentally important thing to understand, so there is no point talking nonsense in here. 13:25:36 jdz: does a symbol evaluate to itself? 13:25:47 NIL does 13:25:51 zfx: i'm not talking nonsese, really. i'm trying a person to understand stuff here. 13:25:52 and T 13:25:59 drdo: do all symbols evaluate to themselves? 13:26:02 nop 13:26:14 Ok thanks for helps 13:26:31 jdz: helpful must check refrences again 13:26:36 jdz: the wrong stuff? 13:27:05 zfx: we talk about variables when it's time, k? 13:27:45 jdz: why, are they not very important to you? 13:28:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:28:06 zfx: instead of complaining about calling what i say nonsense, you can just as easily tell that evaluating symbols is more tricky than other atoms 13:28:23 instead of talking about atoms and lists, it would be much more helpful to talk about forms. 13:28:49 If only there were some information-dense format with which beginner lisp information could be transmitted, instead of the noisy answers you get from irc channels. 13:29:24 They used to have books, but the Kindle put an end to that. 13:29:39 ChibaPet: what's a Candle? 13:29:51 keywords also evaluate to themselves 13:30:39 dlowe: it exists. they're called books. 13:30:54 zfx: I believe you missed the irony. 13:35:41 dlowe: sorry. :) 13:36:49 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:57 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:41:22 -!- splittist [~splittist@AMontsouris-553-1-134-100.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@216.Red-88-19-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:42:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75411e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:02 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:44:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:53 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:08 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:48:44 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.67.114] has joined #lisp 13:48:52 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 13:48:54 -!- vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has quit [Quit: vervic] 13:49:59 gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 13:50:14 redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:36 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:58:31 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-178-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:07 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 14:02:26 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has joined #lisp 14:04:51 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-dkvveaxxhasawkcg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:05:15 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:05:19 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:28 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:09:13 hi 14:09:38 is there any library for self-modifying program? 14:10:15 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-41-1-145.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:10:19 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 14:11:07 -!- kaek [~dsa@88.129.79.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:25 Posterdati: at which level, replacing lisp forms or assembly language? 14:12:26 Phoodus: replacing lisps form would be right, but what about running code? 14:13:02 Phoodus: one may modify an executing program? 14:14:23 Posterdati: that's what people do all the time. 14:14:38 Posterdati: for instance, redefining functions. 14:16:04 Posterdati: (loop (setf (symbol-function 'f) (generate-random-function)) (f)) 14:16:10 Posterdati: have you used SLIME? 14:16:28 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:36 jdz: fmakunbound 14:16:47 (defun generate-random-function () (coerce `(lambda () (print ,(random))) 'function)) 14:16:47 jdz: sure I'm developing with it 14:17:09 Posterdati: every time you (re)define a function, you're modifying your program. 14:17:27 (defun generate-random-function () (coerce `(lambda () (print ,(random 1.0))) 'function)) 14:17:28 there. 14:17:53 jdz: this is dufferent from macro, ok! 14:18:18 when macro expansion is achieved one time only 14:18:32 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:33 This is entirely unrelated. 14:19:42 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:19:52 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:54 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:21:12 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.16.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:23:04 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:30 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.93.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:07 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:26:48 pjb: ok, this is amazing functions like data then 14:27:31 :) 14:28:17 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:30:58 gonzojive [~red@101.109.86.18] has joined #lisp 14:34:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:26 xan_ [~xan@218.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:37:00 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has joined #lisp 14:37:02 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:12 Posterdati: also, if you replace a function while it's running or lower down on the stack, the old version will finish executing 14:37:20 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.86.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:10 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:38:23 since you really have 2 function objects, the old one that was called & not yet done, and the new one in the slot that the old one used to occupy 14:38:37 once that old one is no longer on the stack, it should get GCd 14:38:48 huangho [~vitor@201-41-1-145.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:38:57 Is there a built-in way to safely read a float from an untrusted client? 14:39:17 no. 14:39:22 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.130.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:49 is there a common utility out there for parsing floats? :) 14:40:03 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007016.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 14:40:24 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-62.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:48 pjb: what's the difference between coerce & eval in that situation? is coerce more efficient? 14:42:08 (compile nil `(lamba () (print ,(random 1.0)))) is a bit nicer 14:42:09 there's parse-number; otherwise googling for "lisp parse-float" reveals 2 implementations as the first hits. 14:42:23 dlowe: unless you want eval. 14:43:00 gonzojive [~red@101.109.88.192] has joined #lisp 14:43:14 pkhuong: I'll go with those. :) I thought I'd ask in case there were others that were recommended. 14:43:52 bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has joined #lisp 14:46:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007016.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:58 markskil1eck [~chris@host86-143-13-95.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:13 pjb: please, excuse me if I bother you... Say we have a Euler method for a DAE then I need to evaluate n function that depends on physical problem to study: may I create a functions vector where the single f is taken from a template just to solve the general case? 14:52:47 and adapt it to the particular physical problem? 14:52:58 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-41-1-145.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:53:47 then, I wrote sexp expression as ascii files to describe an electrical circuit, may I use same process to create user define functions? 14:55:07 Phoodus: this is a useful behavior 14:58:12 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:11 :( 14:59:35 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-133-109.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:00:26 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 15:01:12 k04n [~kn@c-71-224-67-136.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-107.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:06:42 -!- xinming [~hyy@li167-184.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:06:54 xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.63] has joined #lisp 15:07:27 may I read a function form from a file and execute it during run time? 15:08:06 yes. Read-time, macroexpansion-time and compile-time are typically interleaved with runtime in CL. 15:08:18 kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 What do you think happens when you type a form at the REPL? 15:09:09 ok 15:09:43 I know eval macro, but how can I pass a form read from a text file? 15:09:54 eval isn't a macro. 15:10:31 ok 15:10:32 -!- k04n [~kn@c-71-224-67-136.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:10:33 pnq [~nick@ACA325EE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:55 lundis [~lundis@gprs-prointernet-ff916a00-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:11:45 tcr1 [~tcr@89.108.255.33] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:14:37 ? 15:16:09 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@89.108.255.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:16:27 marioxcc [~user@200.92.179.219] has joined #lisp 15:16:32 hello 15:16:50 I'm implementing BitTorrent's distributed hash table (based on Kademlia) 15:17:07 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:17:22 this system uses the keys (160 bits) as integers, and the only operation needed to perform is XOR 15:17:41 is there any way to optimize bignums, with this in mind? 15:17:44 (SBCL) 15:19:39 marioxcc: what exactly is slow for you? 15:19:55 marioxcc: use bit vectors instead of bignums. 15:20:10 shift registers ? 15:20:28 Or, if you'll need to read the bits as machine registers later on, represent them as a vector of such words. 15:20:35 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 15:20:45 pdlogan [~patrick@227.sub-69-96-171.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:52 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:14 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has joined #lisp 15:21:15 (map-into d #'logxor a b) should work well, with appropriately declared D, A and B. 15:22:01 marioxcc` [~user@200.92.179.219] has joined #lisp 15:25:40 vervic [~vervic@091-141-013-025.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 15:25:41 pkhuong: shall I use load to load source lisp form? 15:25:54 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:26:06 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.179.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:26:35 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:18 morphling [~stefan@95.117.65.30] has joined #lisp 15:29:45 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-97.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:42 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.42] has left #lisp 15:30:57 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:36:32 -!- gonzojive [~red@101.109.88.192] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 15:37:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:50 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:21 -!- i__ [~none@unaffiliated/i--/x-3618442] has left #lisp 15:39:28 -!- twbd|away|echt is now known as twbd 15:39:32 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:39:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA325EE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:51 -!- marioxcc` is now known as marioxcc-AFK 15:40:08 marioxcc` [~user@200.92.179.219] has joined #lisp 15:40:21 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as Guest54539 15:42:14 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:43:08 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-139-174.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:22 HG` [~HG@p5DC05EEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has joined #lisp 15:44:34 -!- Guest54539 [~user@200.92.179.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:20 Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:29 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:29 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.92.179.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:48 _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.192] has joined #lisp 15:49:24 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:50:29 victory! indent-sexp no longer inserts a space between the paren and the semicolon in (; foo 15:50:54 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:24 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 15:54:33 -!- vervic [~vervic@091-141-013-025.dyn.orange.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:36 nikodemus: I think _someone_ should implement a parser generator for emacs, this idea of hand parsing every different language is insane 15:54:59 I was trying to fix something in lisp-mode and i just gave up, the code is really fucked up 15:56:27 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:57:40 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@218.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:58:16 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 15:58:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has joined #lisp 16:00:18 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:01 drdo: indentation? 16:01:24 as in, was that "something" indentation related? 16:03:23 yes, i was trying to figure out how to get LOOP to indent correctly 16:03:38 vervic [~vervic@081-003-244-102.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 16:04:11 what's the `while loop` equivalent in common lisp? DO? 16:04:21 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [] 16:04:38 The obscurely named loop ... 16:04:42 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:03 Zhivago: how can I use LOOP to do something until a condition occurs? 16:05:05 (do) 16:05:12 -!- ubii is now known as ubii_mobile 16:05:18 bsod1: you use (loop until ...) 16:05:59 drdo: use slime-indentation 16:06:42 -!- ubii_mobile is now known as ubii 16:06:45 then, depending on the style you want, set lisp-loop-indent-subclauses to nil or t 16:06:58 (there are a couple of other toggles as well, but that's the major one) 16:07:26 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-55-103.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 drdo: i've fixed a crapload of indentation issues over the past month or two -- loop vagaries among them 16:07:57 Oh, cool 16:08:19 it also adds support for named indentation styles 16:08:54 putting ;; -*- common-lisp-style: modern -*- to the top of your file is a fairly safe bet 16:09:27 defining your own is pretty simple too, and you can inherit from predefined styles if you just want to change one or two things 16:09:39 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-139-174.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:28 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:44 How exactly do i use slime-identation? 16:13:31 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-indentation)) 16:13:47 plus whatever other contribs you want, of course 16:14:24 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:16:16 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:28 nikodemus: maybe could you paste the relevant section of your .emacs with the lisp-loop-ndent-subclauses? 16:17:47 Fade: my .emacs is empty 16:17:52 for that part 16:17:58 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 16:18:23 oh, wait, no it isn't 16:18:38 I've just been calling slime-indentation in my slime-setup, and the defaults are working out pretty good for me, but I was curious about what the options do. 16:19:39 xan_ [~xan@95.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:19:52 Are there options for lambda list indentation? 16:19:57 nikodemus pasted "setup -- but mostly i actually use named styles now -- if a file doesn't specify it M-x common-lisp-set-style" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122543 16:20:10 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:29 ah, there it is 16:20:38 keyword alignment is exactly what i was looking for 16:21:05 thanks 16:21:09 style modern gets you those same settings 16:21:09 bah, loop-indent-subclauses nil! 16:21:16 hardly modern! 16:21:45 antifuchs: i sort of agree, but there's too much code that doesn't indent subclauses so it's too much bother right now 16:21:48 rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:15 obviously there needs to be a "postmodern" style :) 16:22:33 hypermodern! 16:22:45 I wrote a function in a text file I need to load and execute it from a running program... 16:22:46 futuristic? 16:24:15 ok. what i hope to be final slime-indentation commit for a while just went in 16:24:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:02 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:26:41 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2220-ipad61osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 16:26:59 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 16:26:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 16:26:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 -!- trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:54 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:29 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122544 16:29:41 to execute a text defined form :) 16:29:41 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@227.sub-69-96-171.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 16:29:52 is that correct? 16:30:44 nikodemus: Oh it feels nice to have all the with- macros indent correctly 16:31:02 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:31 pjb: is that correct? http://paste.lisp.org/display/122544 16:31:40 pjb: or is there a better way? 16:31:47 gigamonkey: hi, how are you ? 16:32:06 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:32:14 -!- markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:35:35 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 16:36:27 pnq [~nick@ACA4566B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 -!- drks [~maln@93-141-116-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:19 pyrony [~epic@173.151.96.234] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:08 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 16:43:51 nikodemus: btw, define-slime-indentation-style seems to break when I put it into my init file and byte-compile that 16:43:54 not sure what's going on there 16:44:05 says "Symbol's definition is void: :inherit" 16:44:25 define-common-lisp-style 16:44:31 not define-s-i-s 16:44:34 err, yes. that 16:44:38 I mistyped. 16:44:55 do you have slime-indentation loaded when you byte-compile it? 16:45:28 using the slime-setup call, yes 16:45:50 it happens when I load the .elc file. should I wrap slime-setup in eval-when-compile maybe? 16:46:13 oh yeah. that works. 16:46:42 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:53:18 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-60-34.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:44 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-55-103.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:06 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:31 -!- markskil1eck [~chris@host86-143-13-95.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:26 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:05:24 DoomSock [~camaleon@203.Red-88-25-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:41 -!- pyrony [~epic@173.151.96.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:11:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:11:54 jacob_ [~jacob@pool-96-231-148-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:19 kalpak2021 [7aa724bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.167.36.189] has joined #lisp 17:13:38 ok /now/ i'm done. fixed (let (,@(stuff)\n,@(more-stuff)) ...) indentation still 17:13:41 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:51 can some one help me understand the newtons way of finding square roots in the SICP? 17:13:51 Posterdati: a better way to do what? What you pasted could work, but for what purpose? 17:14:19 kalpak2021: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_method http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NewtonsMethod.html 17:14:45 kalpak2021: once you understand the maths (simple in this case), there should be no problem understanding the code in SICP. 17:15:09 I agree with pjb. 17:15:30 kalpak2021: there's also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uN8cBGVpfs 17:15:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:15:35 i understood the code. what i didn't understand was the good-enough? part. and sqrt-iter 17:15:40 -!- vervic [~vervic@081-003-244-102.dyn.orange.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:42 *rtoym* should probably update his slime to get all the new goodies 17:15:42 Ahh 17:15:48 since i have just started! 17:15:54 So, think about it this way 17:15:58 are those predefined functions? 17:16:04 No 17:16:09 Maybe you need to turn the page 17:16:16 Often in SICP, they go up-down 17:16:24 They write the general program they're trying to write 17:16:29 Using function names that are often not written yet 17:16:30 -!- DoomSock [~camaleon@203.Red-88-25-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:44 And then, as they go, they write those functions 17:16:54 jacob : ah. so basically we are to understand from simple plain english thats there? 17:17:01 So in the Newton method example, you want to know when your code should stop trying to make better approximations 17:17:07 Yes, for the moment 17:17:12 But they will define good-enough? 17:17:18 This isn't uncommon in writing lisp 17:17:47 I'm writing something, and I think "I need something that does {insert something}" 17:17:47 jacob : i got confused since it wasnt defined before neither there was a reference! 17:18:00 So I put in a placeholder name (or the final name, if I really know what I want) 17:18:07 And then I write that function after 17:18:09 Yeah, haha 17:18:15 But yeah, it should be on the very next page, literally. 17:18:21 Second edition, by the way? 17:18:43 i dunno! i m using the online version! :/ 17:18:46 Oh 17:18:49 Then just scroll down 17:18:55 It's in the same section 17:18:57 i often do "ok, that's easy to write" and then "oops, it's given on the next page" 17:19:02 (after writing it) 17:19:08 kalpak2021: the point is that Newton method doesn't give an exact result in general (you don't often get Xi=X(i-1)). 17:19:15 It'll look something like this: 17:19:47 (define (good-enough? guess x) (< (abs (- square guess) x)) 0.001)) 17:20:08 kalpak2021: therefore the suite is infinite, giving Xi that are always closer to the actual root, that is, with more and more precision. (Mathematically, lim(i,Xi)=X0). 17:20:23 Right. 17:20:32 Hence, we want the program to stop someday 17:20:35 kalpak2021: therefore we use the good-enough? function to determine when we get Xi with enough precision. 17:21:18 stassats: That's actually a good way of learning, so you should just do that, haha. 17:21:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@95.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:21:27 pjb: why didn't you use X? 17:21:27 If we compute with single-floats then we only have 6 or 7 decimal digits of precision. There's no point to go on computing once we've determined the 7th decimal. 17:21:32 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 stassats: I typed too fast. 17:21:45 X. 17:21:52 Whoa, autotexing, here? 17:21:59 Let me try: 17:22:04 x_{0} 17:22:08 it's unicode! 17:22:08 Hmm... 17:22:10 jacob_: no, just unicode :-) 17:22:10 Something I'm missing? 17:22:12 Oh, haha 17:22:23 it has everything 17:22:24 tha jacovian 17:22:29 That'd be kind of nifty, though 17:22:32 I configured my xmodmap to generate those superscript and subscript digits with a modifier. 17:22:42 Helpful. 17:22:49 i understood that cuz its plain english! :P! It was just confusing since it wasnt referenced to before! :P! and, well, the limit to precision is defined by the programmer in the "good-enough function". right? 17:22:50 X¹²³ 17:23:15 in emacs it's C-x 8 ^ 1 for superscripts 17:23:16 kalpak2021: yes. 17:23:26 pjb : thank you! :) 17:23:30 but not for all 17:23:35 stassats: yes, but it goes only up to 3 (in iso-8859-1 IIRC). 17:23:41 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:51 jacob : what were you telling bout the second edition? 17:24:13 Oh, it's not important 17:24:20 You're using the online version (which is 2nd ed) 17:24:21 kalpak2021: notice that with ieee floats, you can end with alternative serie: Xi=X(i+2)X(i+1). 17:24:22 pjb: you can define a key for , and then just add them 17:24:26 But if you had the book, I'd give you a page number 17:24:31 Since I have a copy somewhere. 17:24:32 stassats: :-) 17:24:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.202.89] has joined #lisp 17:24:51 stassats: but now, I lack subscript and superscript letters... 17:24:53 jacpb : im still curious! :P 17:25:04 jacob * 17:25:50 kalpack2021: Curious about what? 17:26:02 kalpack2021: 17:26:05 Whoops... 17:26:13 kalpack2021: The page number? 17:26:35 jacob : haha.. :P its alright! anyways, nope, the second edition, where do you get it? 17:26:51 jacob : btw, its kalpak2021 , the 'c' aint in there 17:27:21 kalpak2021: Muscle memory. Anyway, I have no idea how to get a second edition. 17:27:32 kalpak2021: They seem to be very hard to find, now. 17:27:59 kalpak2021: My copy is from my school's academic library. 17:28:02 jacob : oh. darn. am i outta luck? 17:28:31 kalpak2021: Eh, you can keep your eyes out for copies, they probably show up from time to time. But probability is low that you'll just find one any time you look. 17:29:31 kalpack2021: Which is really annoying, actually. Why would that book go out of print? I don't understand. 17:29:55 http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=4412 ? 17:30:09 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0024.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:27 jacob : your muscle memory's got real muscle! :P 17:30:29 pjb: I need to write source lisp code in text file then a lisp program have to read it and execute it 17:30:50 kalpack2021: Hmm... That's interesting. Maybe it is available? 17:31:03 kalpack2021: Last time I went looking, all I found were international editions in print. 17:31:06 Posterdati : an Interpreter? :O 17:31:18 vervic [~vervic@94.245.230.168] has joined #lisp 17:31:29 jacob : how does it matter if its international or local? language? 17:31:55 kalpak2021: Nothing like that. Paper's usually worthless and shitty for int'l editions. 17:32:20 kalpak2021: And they smell awful. Mine give me headaches if I read them for long. So I don't buy them anymore. 17:32:41 jacob : ah. that way. anyways, i think im gonna continue with the online tutorial! :) 17:32:43 kalpak2021: no I need to give a user the possibility to write functions for electrical device's models 17:33:25 kalpack2021: The online version is fine. The old video lectures are good, too. In any case, it's quite a head expander. I'm hoping to finish the book this summer. 17:33:43 Posterdati : i am no programmer. i just thought it was a sort of interpreter. but i understood what you are trying. maybe ask pjb or jacob 17:33:48 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0024.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:07 jacob : i am gonna go slow and take my time. i do not wanna rush. 17:34:21 Posterdati: Uh, use LOAD? 17:35:21 kalpak2021: Haha, yeah, you don't want to rush. Another great book is The Little Schemer, if you can get it. I'm not sure that's online, though. But that was my first serious exposure to Scheme/Lisp, and it was really something else. 17:35:36 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-108-38-79-155.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:35:36 HG`` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:45 kalpak2021: Rather, it will be online, but I don't know if it will be easy to find. Copyrighted and all. 17:36:01 markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:36:05 -!- vervic [~vervic@94.245.230.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:06 jacob : i sail better than jack sparrow online. :P 17:37:18 thom_logn [~thom@pool-108-38-79-155.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 jweiss [~user@69.134.63.238] has joined #lisp 17:37:40 kalpak2021: Hahaha 17:37:45 jacob : different in what sense? better, worse? 17:38:20 kalpak2021: Do you mean The Little Schemer? Like how was that different? 17:38:22 varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:38:33 jacob : yes! 17:39:14 kalpak2021: It's very good. 17:39:23 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05EEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:39:33 kalpak2021: What's different is that Scheme and all that is super different from, say, Java, which was my first programming language. 17:39:49 jacob : i am confused now. i have gone through quite a bit of SICP, do i shift now? 17:40:03 kalpak2021: That book does a good job at starting to pull back layers on things like the lambda calculus, and so on 17:40:22 jacob : i learn from people that JAVA is a very tedious to start with! :| 17:40:29 kalpak2021: Oh, no, no. That wouldn't be necessary. You could pause SICP if you wanted, or do it concurrently. The Little Schemer is very short, very quick reading. 17:40:49 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-108-38-79-155.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:58 kalpak2021: It's question-response format, not much text per page, not many pages. 17:41:14 kalpak2021: It mostly just focuses on the ideas of recursion that you're using in SICP. 17:41:20 jacob : oh. thats like "sigh of relief". youre a saviour! :P wait, the rapture didnt happen! :P 17:41:57 kalpak2021: So anyway, I recommend it, and the Little Schemer might be less valuable after you complete SICP, but you may have an easier time later on in SICP with LS under your belt. 17:42:18 jacob : so i am gonna pause and then go on! :) 17:42:46 kalpak2021: And as for Java, haha... Your first programming language, you rarely know anything about what other languages are like. So it didn't seem tedious at the time, and I'm a fairly competent Java programmer. On the other hand, when you start learning what programming can be like, you start thinking "This is a really tedious language" 17:43:28 jacob : now thats something really philosophically understandable and nice. :) really! 17:43:32 kalpak2021: Alrighty then. Make sure you actually do the coding that they tell you to do in Little Schemer. It will build your lisp muscles very well, you'll start automatically knowing what to do for basic things, which is what makes programming more second-nature. 17:43:42 itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:48 Krystof [~csr21@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:43:48 -!- itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:08 jacob : alright.. did i tell you i sail better... never mind. i have completed my journey! :P 17:44:14 kalpak2021: Good luck with SICP. It's a challenging book, but there's real payoff in it. 17:44:15 itegebo [~quassel@c-76-102-2-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 kalpak2021: hahaha 17:44:37 kalpak2021: I'm not surprised you could find it. I just know some people don't like torrenting things, and what have you. 17:44:59 jacob : thanks a lot. :) 17:45:17 kalpak2021: No problem. Happy to be of service. 17:45:35 kalpak2021: Haha, true story: This is my first time using IRC ever. 17:45:45 jacob : im really starting with LISP since i want to first get my basics on track and then i am gonna move on! 17:46:02 jacob : you did pretty well. :P IRC = mother of chat clients/servers! :P 17:46:02 kalpak2021: Do you mean Lisp in Small Pieces? 17:46:16 jacob : i meant scheme! :P 17:46:24 kalpak2021: I imitate, and hence I learn. 17:46:33 kalpak2021: Wait, wait. Move on to what? 17:46:55 benny` [~benny@i577A26B6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:56 jacob : btw, i googled, if i wouldn't have found there, i would have warez'd if not there THEN torrent.. 17:47:18 jacob : hmm.. maybe to more mainframe language. applicable commercially today! 17:47:34 kalpak2021: Not to be a smug lisp weenie, but I don't know what you'd move on TO, exactly. Ruby is fairly nice, but that's mainly because it's a lot like lisp with different syntax. Each language that is less like lisp is often less worth using. 17:48:10 jacob : and why would you say that language not like lisp is not worth using? :/ 17:48:27 kalpak2021: I feel fairly honest saying this, because I didn't start with lisp. I didn't create a bunch of notions about what my programming should be like with lisp. I did it with imperative languages, like Java/C++, and moved from there. It turns out, those languages really aren't very good. 17:48:33 jacob_: so a good feature of IRC is the command /q in case you ever need it 17:48:53 felideon: Can you explain? Sorry... 17:49:04 kalpak2021: So let me explain myself. 17:49:29 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:34 kalpak2021: The reason lisp is so powerful, and unfortunately SICP doesn't really cover this since it's not about lisp/scheme (it's about computing), is the macro systems. 17:49:40 jacob : i am all ears. 17:49:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A765D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:53 jacob : macro systems as in? 17:50:11 kalpak2021: Java is annoying for a number of reasons, such as not having higher-order functions. But it also doesn't have macros (no other language has macros as good as lisp) 17:50:21 kalpak2021: So a macro is code that writes code. 17:50:45 kalpak2021: Suppose you want to write a filter 17:50:59 kalpak2021: So every time you have an array, you want to pass it to a function which picks out all the even numbers in it 17:51:12 jacob : wait, i am not so much into programming yet, could you simplify filter? 17:51:18 kalpak2021: Or all the odd numbers. Or prime numbers. Or numbers you don't like, whatever. 17:51:25 jacob : i got the array part! 17:51:25 it is a disgrace to complain about Java without mentioning generics 17:51:25 kalpak2021: I'm getting there, bear with me. 17:51:27 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:51:27 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Meep.] 17:51:36 Phoodus: Hahahaha 17:52:13 Phoodus: You mean how Java attempts to stop tripping over itself, and fails? et cetera? 17:52:29 jacob : alright. 17:52:34 kalpak2021: So you have your array, and you want to do something to it. Remove certain elements. 17:52:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.202.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:53 kalpak2021: In Java, you have to write a new function for every single possible way you want to remove elements. 17:53:12 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA4566B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:53:17 kalpak2021: That means, if you want a function which removes prime numbers from an array, that's one function 17:53:24 kalpak2021: Remove evens, that's another method. 17:53:40 kalpak2021: Actually, Java calls them methods, not functions. But same idea. 17:53:43 jacob : well, and in lisp how could you achieve that with lesser functions! 17:53:44 So you see what I mean? 17:53:53 kalpak2021: Watch, it's awesome: 17:53:55 jacob : yeah i do. 17:54:28 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 17:54:41 actually, I don't think methods really count as functions in java 17:54:44 since they aren't first calss 17:54:46 class 17:54:48 kalpak2021: So in lisp, you can write a function (it's actually already written for you, called "filter") that takes in a test function. The test function returns a boolean value. "even?" is a test function. "prime?" is a test function. 17:55:00 catphive: You make a valid point. But we digress. 17:55:21 kalpak2021: So with filter, you simply pass in the function that you want filter to use to filter out objects. 17:55:41 jacob : so its just that lisp has those functions/methods built in? 17:55:48 kalpak2021: No. 17:55:53 kalpak2021: I can understand why you'd think that 17:55:59 kalpak2021: This is why lisp is amazing 17:56:08 jacob : then what is it? 17:56:17 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:56:17 kalpak2021: Firstly, Java simply can't do what I described. There is no way to pass functions into functions 17:56:22 kalpak2021: Ever 17:56:39 kalpak2021: Well, short of writing a compiler in Java to compile Lisp 17:56:53 kalpak2021: But nevermind that. 17:57:05 kalpak2021: So the difference is that lisp represents its code in the same form as its data 17:57:14 kalpak2021: In plain english: 17:57:21 kalpak2021: Lisp lets you write code that writes code for you. 17:57:24 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:40 gko` [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:40 jacob : that is REAL CONFUSING! 17:57:52 well, a simpler point is 17:57:54 kalpak2021: Yes, I realize, I'm sorry. I'm trying to think of a good concrete example of what I mean. 17:57:59 in lisp, you can assign a function to a variable 17:58:04 or pass a function to another function 17:58:07 you can't do that in java 17:58:11 jacob : in lisp its like even the variables are a sort a function! 17:58:15 cgay_ [~cgay@74.125.59.113] has joined #lisp 17:58:17 kalpak2021: They are. 17:58:23 jacob : now that i understood! :) 17:58:26 kalpak2021: In fact, in Scheme, they share the same namespace. 17:58:32 kalpak2021: Common Lisp, that isn't the case 17:58:40 kalpak2021: But these are dialect differences 17:58:48 kalpak2021: So nevermind that. 17:58:52 deep differences 17:59:01 gko: Yeah, they are. 17:59:33 Emacs Lisp, Common Lisp, Schema: look similar in surface, but .. 17:59:37 gko: But they haven't altered the way I think about everything. It's not like lisp 1 and lisp 2 are suddenly as far apart as lisp * is from anything else. 17:59:39 Scheme 17:59:40 jacob : i think i am just going learn lisp first! :P maybe later on decide what am i gonna do! cuz i really want to get into JAVA/C/C-objective! 18:00:17 kalpak2021: That's fine. It would be easier to show you what I mean if you were more experienced, and that comes with time. You'll get there. 18:00:20 Phani [75c3b6b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.195.182.182] has joined #lisp 18:00:44 kalpak2021: As practical notes, though: Remember that we here at #lisp are telling you that Lisp is awesome, so look into again as you get to know other languages better. 18:00:54 CL: big core, Scheme: small core... 18:01:06 kalpak2021: And also, if you're interested in Java stuff, Clojure is a lisp dialect which runs on Java's virtual machine, so you can use Java's libraries with it. 18:01:22 Clojure is nice. 18:01:52 gko: Yeah, I've read most of the Scheme standard. Only about 50 pages, compared to like 1100 for CL. But the idea of lisp is still similar, which is what I'm telling kalpak2021 about. 18:02:12 depends on his objectives... 18:02:42 gko : yes, exactly! 18:03:04 gko: It does, but we may be talking about differences in grain. Depending on your objectives, you may have to think about Scheme vs Common Lisp, or Clojure, or whatever. On the other hand, I wouldn't have to think too hard to pick a lisp for most of my coding, regardless of what I was doing. 18:03:37 gko : i am starting with SICP since i have heard from a lot of people that it gives a good knowledge of basic programming and i could move on with that. so naturally i had to learn LISP, and i find it interesting nevertheless! 18:03:37 But maybe kalpak2021 wants to work for a company that uses Java, or something. Or write iPhone apps with Objective-C. 18:04:05 In which case, I guess you're stuck using whatever the company uses. 18:04:21 jacob : you got that right. not a company. but as a part time hobby! since thats my passion. programming! 18:04:41 kalpak2021: Starting with SICP is a brave move. It may be the best move in many ways, but understand that its learning curve is higher than most intro books. 18:04:52 -!- Phani [75c3b6b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.195.182.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:53 kalpak2021: On the other hand, if you get through it really well, it will benefit you more later. 18:05:09 kalpak2021: If I might ask, what are your plans for your hobby? 18:05:13 again, depends on kalpak2021 objectives... 18:05:24 gko: That's why I'm asking. 18:05:44 jacob : maybe a small subsidiary company. or as a leisure time practice! 18:05:51 gko: Forgive me if I'm coming as too opinionated, that isn't my goal. 18:06:08 SICP is like TAoCP... 18:06:22 jacob_: no problem 18:06:23 kalpak2021: subsidiary in what way? Like your own, or just a small company? 18:06:58 gko: That can mean a number of different things, depending on how one views SICP and TAoCP. 18:07:21 gko: For instance, I would never give someone TAoCP who didn't have a solid core of experience. 18:07:27 jacob : check pm! 18:07:40 kalpak2021: Where? 18:07:53 It's more abstract than compared to things like Practical Common Lisp, Paul Graham's books, etc.. 18:07:54 here itself! :| a msg 18:08:12 kalpak2021: You mean pm you? 18:08:26 jacob : knuth is not respected as an author for beginners! :P 18:08:34 jacob : what client you using? 18:08:37 gko: Yeah, it is. I personally didn't use SICP as my first learning experience, and I don't know that I would recommend it for that. But it's probably still doable. 18:08:43 XChat 18:09:12 never used it! :| 18:12:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:14:37 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:58 xan_ [~xan@216.Red-88-19-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:25 is there a CL idiom to make something list if it's not, but leave if it already is? 18:18:57 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:57 bsod1: are you appending it to something else? 18:20:07 felideon: yes 18:20:58 bsod1: well (list* 'a 'b '(c)) => (a b c) 18:20:59 (progn (ql:quickload "alexandria") (alexandria:ensure-list x)) 18:21:02 bsod1: alexandria:ensure-list 18:21:06 bah 18:21:07 ah 18:21:20 well teach him how to fish! :) 18:21:43 thanks, but I have to solve it with standart library 18:21:52 quickload is a lot like fishing if you went to an overstocked pond 18:21:59 bsod1: alexandria is a standard library 18:22:14 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 18:22:29 oconnore: I don't have alexandria with default SBCL install 18:22:30 bsod1: Ah, so this is homework? :) 18:22:30 for some definition of standard 18:22:52 sykopomp: nope, I wish I have homeworks with CL, we only have java homeworks :) 18:22:59 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 18:23:01 oconnore: lol 18:23:14 bsod1: in any case, writing ensure-list seems like a reasonable exercise for the user. 18:24:17 sykopomp: (defun ensure-list (it) (if (not (listp it)) (list it) it)) ? 18:25:21 bsod1: does that do what you want it to do? 18:25:30 sykopomp: yes 18:25:32 at least, for now 18:25:36 there we go, then. 18:26:21 sykopomp: I was wondering how would you write ensure-list. just to learn something.. 18:26:53 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:27:07 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:27:48 bsod1, do you know what that function does when it = nil? 18:28:09 returns t ? 18:28:12 cgay_: since nil = (), it return () 18:28:41 Just checking. :) An important case to know. 18:28:48 bsod1: (if (listp x) x (list x)) ;p 18:28:59 +1 sykopomp 18:29:17 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.152] has joined #lisp 18:29:24 sykopomp: yay, better 18:30:09 rtoym pasted "Possible fix for asdf2 and sbcl and maxima" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122546 18:30:26 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:30:28 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 18:31:51 rtoym: I just wonder why there's anything after s-l-a-d ;) 18:32:08 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 18:32:32 Heh. Good point. I didn't write that. 18:33:26 I'm trying to list all combinations of a given list, but making a small error, can anyone review my code? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/404170/ 18:33:43 what do you expect / what do you get? 18:34:24 Landr: (combination 1 '(1 2 3)) expected result: (1 2 3) what I get (3) 18:34:30 also why is r a literal list? 18:34:58 Landr: what do you mean by literal list :S sorry I'm noob 18:35:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:53 there's no need to do (let ((r '())) ... 18:35:55 bsod1: you should get ((1) (2) (3))... 18:35:57 no? 18:36:02 you can just do (let ((r ())) 18:36:05 pjb: right 18:36:16 not sure if it makes a difference, but literals have plagued me before 18:36:35 Landr: it didn't make any difference 18:36:40 bsod1: and be careful with the inconsistency between the docstring and the parameter names! 18:37:31 could you explain what ensure-list does? 18:38:13 Landr: (defun ensure-list (it) (if (listp it) it) (list it))) 18:38:28 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-90.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:29 bsod1, bad parens there 18:38:46 indeed 18:39:02 wow 18:39:16 I didn't copy/paste it, sorry 18:41:47 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:45:03 bsod1: why isn't there a call to (combination (1- n) list) in the definition of combination? 18:45:16 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0039.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:56 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:48:09 pjb: (labels ..) part of the code handles all situations, get one element and calculate combination of remaining list, and don't get element and calculate.. why do you think there sould be a code like this? 18:48:34 pjb: I don't think the problem is in the logic of code, somehow r is nil after function.. 18:48:46 Borkdude [c3f19228@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.241.146.40] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 pjb: made a change http://paste.pocoo.org/show/404183/ 18:49:06 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:09 bsod1: well, I think that because my solution has one and doesn't break. 18:50:31 pjb: can you show me your solution? 18:50:50 nikodemus: wrt planet lisp, this slime-indentation hack is it in the latest cvs? i've tried it but emacs errors out parsing slime-cl-ident.el for some reason... 18:52:03 -!- gko` [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:43 pjb pasted "combinations" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122547 18:54:59 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55:21 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:56:13 pjb annotated #122547 "should be more efficient this way." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122547#1 18:57:00 Ah well, perhaps not. When it matters, there are less combinations with neo than without... 18:57:10 pjb: wow, great 18:57:37 pjb: but its wrong 18:57:47 How so? 18:58:01 pjb: there isn't (a b f) 18:58:21 right any combination with f is lacking... 19:00:03 hypno: crap, merge snafu 19:00:07 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:10 i'm on it 19:00:51 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:15 bsod1: we need to exchange the order of the test zerop k and endp list. 19:02:18 nikodemus: ah, ok. :) 19:02:24 hypno: fixed in cvs now, thanks for the heads up 19:02:27 (combination 0 '()) --> (()) not (). 19:02:34 hi 19:02:36 pjb: great 19:03:08 pnq [~nick@AC821B89.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:12 in slime i have (test a b) any short key for going to the test function ? it's in other package 19:03:32 pjb annotated #122547 "corrected." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122547#2 19:03:44 M-. 19:04:09 pjb: wow I just can't believe how your solutions is good and how you found your bug.. I think that's what's to be noob 19:04:13 SBCL always compiles, right? How does this impact dev-testing? Do you ever try to do something in order to test without compiler-macro expansion? 19:04:15 nikodemus: No known definition for: 19:04:31 if TEST in the current package isn't OTHER:TEST, then M-. other::test 19:04:35 Modius: you can use the interpreter. 19:04:45 NOTINLINE will disable compiler macros as well. 19:05:01 bsod1: I tried the base cases and up. (combination 1 '(f)) was wrong because (combination 0 '()) was called and returned (). 19:05:05 Night-Hacks: of course that assumes that OTHER::TEST has bee loaded in the first place 19:05:10 pkhuong: How do you use interpreter? Can you define an interpreted function? 19:05:28 Modius: 19:05:38 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:42 ive loaded the other package 19:05:44 nikodemus: ah, excellent. works for me now. :) 19:06:18 (and if you're using eg. SBCL, unless that SBCL is fairly new you must have /compiled/ OTHER::TEST for it to be find. source locations for files loaded as source are pretty new) 19:07:33 Night-Hacks: did you try M-. other::test yet? that is, point on whitespace, hit M-. and type "other::test" where other is the name of the package it is in 19:08:20 I see the spec for save-lisp-and-die, is there any way to tell it to leave out anything big, like the compiler? 19:08:36 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:47 Modius: not yet. 19:08:47 nikodemus: sorry, my fault they are all in same package but in different files 19:09:24 should i compile all files ? 19:09:28 yes 19:09:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:10:24 (compile /and/ load) 19:10:32 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:41 ---> home 19:10:42 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0039.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:10:45 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:12:08 -!- kalpak2021 [7aa724bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.167.36.189] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:12:21 -!- jacob_ [~jacob@pool-96-231-148-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:44 still No known definition for 19:12:57 it's quick lisp and i loaded it with that 19:13:19 and i compiled all files even package.lisp 19:14:03 pjb annotated #122547 "more concise." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122547#3 19:14:10 bsod1: ^ 19:16:50 pjb: nice, thanks 19:16:55 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:54 Anyone here run linux web servers with SBCL/hunchentoot as well as other web servers side by side? What do you put in front of them and get good results? (Something that preserves sessions/just passes through)? Can Apache config alone do the job well? 19:19:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.43] has joined #lisp 19:20:17 I'm thinking of a scenario with, for example, rails and a lisp server side by side. 19:20:18 Modius: I use pound. 19:20:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@216.Red-88-19-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:34 pjb: Is that just pound + lisp/other servers side by side, or apache in front or behind pound as well? 19:21:57 apache and hunchentoots behind pound. 19:22:19 There's some apache redirections to the urls of the hunchentoots, going thru pound. 19:22:35 pjb: One apache? What does the pound provide then? 19:22:40 sorry if the questions are naive 19:22:42 Modius: nginx will do that well 19:22:59 the concept is called reverse proxy, btw 19:23:01 pound is a renaming proxy. I dispatch the different server depending on the urls. 19:23:35 Aah gotcha, I was thinking same server; but it makes sense now. Pound preserves the session, sending off requests to different apaches on different machines. 19:24:15 Also, it allows to hide the urls of the hunchentoot: they're http://localhost:5001 and pound redirects to that, when it gets http://application.host.com/ 19:24:45 Yes, it can be localhost, or on the private LAN. 19:25:33 . .. and when using the apache typically (as it receives pound requests), you have it redirect unmodified URLs to the hunchentoot? 19:25:50 or do you use mod_lisp behind the apache? 19:26:00 xan_ [~xan@216.Red-88-19-137.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:42 does anyone use mod_lisp yet? 19:31:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has joined #lisp 19:34:11 *still 19:34:45 arborist [~arborist@f050020200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:36:34 Modius: well, apache presents "entry point" pages, and contains urls to the application, that go thru pound of course (since they're requested by the clients). 19:37:03 So, if you know the urls (the port), you can go directly to the application. 19:37:28 If you don't want that, you should indeed make apache communicate directly with hunchentoot... 19:39:28 -!- Borkdude [c3f19228@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.241.146.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:41 no_nada [~chatzilla@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:52 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 19:45:51 -!- arborist [~arborist@f050020200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 19:50:25 I tried stella, it was ok but was a bit disappointed by the lack of documentation... If they wanted people to use it more examples and documentation would have been nice... 19:56:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:29 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:20 nikodemus: just got a weird error: "Symbol's value as variable is void: lisp-indent-error-function" 19:57:26 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:57:41 -!- cgay_ [~cgay@74.125.59.113] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:58:49 Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 19:58:53 jefhsf [~jef@5ac8b0e6.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:00 ah, (:as handler-case) is reported as a bad format, according to the backtrace. 19:59:14 (I'm in restart-case) 19:59:14 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:18 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:59:37 francogrex: you know, before you mentioned it the other I didn't know STELLA was also used for the purposes of just the translator 19:59:57 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:24 cgay_ [~cgay@74.125.59.113] has joined #lisp 20:00:31 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:39 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:00:39 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:01:01 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:01:20 -!- cgay_ [~cgay@74.125.59.113] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:00 nikodemus: same thing happens with typecase, actually 20:02:00 felideon: it's a nice effort really I just wonder why it stopped almost half-way 20:02:11 arborist [~arborist@e182024188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:11 replacing the (as case) and (as handler-case) makes these forms work 20:02:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:15 but something is wrong. 20:02:20 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:02:34 the translator is nice but still stella isn't really CL, it's based on ot but it isn't 20:02:53 right 20:03:00 francogrex: what are you trying to do? 20:03:03 I wold like to see more cl translators (actually working on CL to SAS translator myself) 20:03:23 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:30 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:42 kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:11 felideon: trying to use/learn from other projects while i'm 'slowly' working on my own. For that I am grateful even for the bit of info/material i get (hence I appreciate the effort put into stella and other such projects) 20:19:55 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:20:17 nikodemus: I'm getting the same thing on define-condition. I tried my own custom indent style and 'modern, and both error. 20:23:36 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:50 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:26:19 pjb: Hi, but I've seen once some time ago a reply message from you to someone asking how to implement haskel list (I think) in CL and you showed him that in a few lines maybe a page, for some reason can't relocate that message and I didn't save a copy. do youthink you have it still (if you recall)? 20:27:29 -!- twbd [~willem@91.177.145.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-107.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:29:25 Haskell lists, as in lazy evaluation? 20:29:49 -!- kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:59 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-178-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:31:08 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01230a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:45 Bike: it was something simple done with a loop in the repl... 20:31:47 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:49 twbd [~willem@91.177.54.220] has joined #lisp 20:34:07 hi 20:34:13 Does anyone have any links on how CL implementations happen to implement the encoding of references/fixnums? Some examples of the bitfield choices. . .. 20:38:28 The choice made by CMUCL and SBCL (and a couple other language implementations that target more CISCy machines) is to leave the bottom-most bit as 0 for fixnum 20:38:32 guther_ [guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:37 or bits 20:38:45 -!- guther_ [guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:23 That way fixnum addition and subtraction has no overhead, and multiplication only requires a right shift. On machines with interesting addressing modes, dereferencing pointers has no overhead, except for a constant offset, which can be executed by the AGU basically for free. 20:40:48 antifuchs: hm 20:41:48 Interesting. Lispworks seems to hold back 2 bits, what do you think they're using it for? 20:42:06 more immediates. 20:42:07 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:08 Modius: For an overview of cmucl's encodings, look at http://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/CMUCL-design.pdf. 20:42:33 antifuchs: can you paste me the offending form, (setq debug-on-error t) in emacs, and the paste the debugger backtrace? 20:42:34 Early design were very much cons-oriented, and you can feel that atavism in a lot of extant implementations. 20:44:20 With the cons-orientation comes the assumption that everything is double-word (not in the x86 sense) aligned. On a 32 bit machine, that gives you 3 free bits in addresses. How that's divided between immediates, and pointers is a bit arbitrary. If one really wants wide fixnum, you can see fixnum taking the bottom bit as 0, and everything else (immediates and pointers) managing with the remainder. 20:44:53 immediates? You mean other types? 20:45:03 right. Like characters. 20:45:04 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-179.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:48 I imagine this is another optimization - how is "type" marked on a memory allocation? First entry pointns to a symbol? Special case for Cons and such? 20:46:02 SBCL and CMUCL are a bit less aggressive: they reserve 00 for fixnums, leaving [01]{01,10,11} for the rest, and, to simplify some code, force pointers to have the bottom bit to 1. 20:46:50 Modius: You can find a lot of wisdom in order papers on implementating schemes, lisps and MLs. Readscheme.org links to a couple interesting (free) ones, I believe. 20:46:55 *older papers 20:47:16 nikodemus: I was just writing (define-condition RET and the trace popped up. pasting. 20:47:16 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:19 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-60-34.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:29 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 nikodemus: paste.lisp.org/display/122558 20:48:17 SBCL/CMUCL basically word-align their fixnums, which is neat for fast array access (without any specific compiler smart). 20:48:27 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:33 thanks 20:49:09 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:31 tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:49:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:34 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:49 I have been fooling around with cl-prevalence and I am pleasantly surprised when it comes to its speed...I managed to sum a million key value pairs in 0.05 seconds!! 20:52:16 antifuchs: can're reproduce. can you cvs up? 20:52:22 will do 20:52:35 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:44 my entire setup seems to be in a weird state 20:52:45 bonus: i just fixed defstruct boa constructor lambda-list indentation :) 20:53:46 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:54:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B334.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:54:12 antifuchs: lisp-indent-report-bad-format((as defclass)) in that traces makes me think you have an older cl-indent.el being reloaded after slime-indentation 20:54:55 weird! that could be. hm. 20:55:17 huh, I still had a (require 'cl-indent-patches) in there! 20:55:51 aand it works. Thanks, nikodemus (: 20:56:43 -!- no_nada [~chatzilla@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@95.117.65.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:03 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-63-237.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:03:42 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:16 np. let me know if you run across anything else 21:04:41 but now! no more hacking, and a good book. well, not-terrible book at any rate 21:04:48 have fun (: 21:05:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:06:02 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:06:58 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:59 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:59 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@cei-gla-cpk2.coxinc.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:08:09 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:42 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:08:49 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:09:39 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:10:26 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-5-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:16 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:12 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-179.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:12:12 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15:06 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 21:16:59 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:54 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 21:20:19 -!- jweiss [~user@69.134.63.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:20:38 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:21:24 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B334.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:57 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:23 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-249-163.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:09 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:36 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:16 so I've been thinking of getting into Lisp lately, what books does this channel recommend? 21:30:25 Practical Common Lisp 21:30:40 available online at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 21:31:28 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:58 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 21:34:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:27 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 21:38:23 yeah, I've been working through that, it's great 21:39:32 vervic [~vervic@188-23-230-56.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:41:26 personally I would recommend PAIP after you are done with PCL... 21:42:46 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:10 taiyal: what is your experience level? 21:44:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:44:33 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-164-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:08 prxq: Moderate skill in Java and Python, and a bit of dabbling into the ideas behind lambda calculus 21:47:18 Zero LISP experience 21:49:04 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:47 cgay_ [~cgay@74.125.59.113] has joined #lisp 21:50:52 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: Computer went to sleep] 21:51:00 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:02 taiyal: you might also want to look at "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" by Dave Touretzky 21:52:26 taiyal: then there is land of lisp, by Conrad Barski 21:53:12 anyways, if you've dabbled in lambda calculus and have not run away screaming... welcome! :-) 21:57:03 -!- cgay_ [~cgay@74.125.59.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:21 cipher [~cipher@unaffiliated/cipher] has joined #lisp 22:01:22 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:26 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-246-28.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 22:03:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-251.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:30 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 22:06:44 taiyal: all the pointers are on http://cliki.net/ 22:08:01 paip is paradigms of ai programming? 22:08:09 Yes. 22:08:27 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.133.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:09:08 lisp the language seems really great 22:09:18 It is. 22:09:25 I'm a little disappointed there doesn't seem to be something like python's twisted, or node.js though 22:09:41 Like them in what sense? 22:10:05 toolkit for event driven IO 22:10:14 There's iolib. 22:10:18 Bike: some people rediscovered evented-IO... badly :P 22:10:23 catphive: have you installed quicklisp? 22:10:40 (ql:quickload :iolib) 22:10:40 yeah 22:11:05 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:11:55 I have a friend who wrote an IRC bot in Twistd, each command gets its own class, I don't get it at all. 22:12:30 well, I haven't used twisted explicitly 22:12:37 I've used node.js, and that's pretty great 22:13:12 I mean, the main thing I'd want to do with evented IO, is do is comet 22:13:23 so you can push to a bunch of web clients 22:14:22 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01230a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:39 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:13 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 22:22:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 22:22:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:22:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:02 thom_logn [~thom@pool-108-38-79-155.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:16 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 22:24:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 22:24:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:25:40 if someone wanted to write irc bot in CL what would you recommend them to use? (ql:system-apropos "irc") returns several librares 22:25:42 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:25:54 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:25:57 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:16 beirc, cl-irc, trivial-irc 22:26:20 Yes. 22:26:22 Those. 22:26:28 no preference? 22:26:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:40 I'd try them each, and reach a preference. 22:26:43 Beirc is a client, not a library, isn't it? 22:26:55 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:27:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:27:12 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:22 you seem to be right 22:27:24 I wrote one in cl-irc, the lack of documentation annoying, but it works great. 22:27:45 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 22:28:52 beirc is a library with a gui (-; 22:29:00 add^_ [~add^_^@h62n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:05 (but yeah, it's an app) (: 22:30:08 timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-15.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:30:40 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:14 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:31:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:33 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 22:32:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 22:32:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:33:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:07 Does beirc have scripting (which would just be cl anyway probably)? 22:35:12 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:54 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-249-163.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:38:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC821B89.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:27 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:51 -!- kodovangelis [~kodovange@188-230-154-130.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:40:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@253.79.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:44:24 Good morning everyone! 22:45:34 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:25 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-15.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:51 Bike: you can script the underlying cl-irc 22:48:53 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-159-194.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:57 it's all methods (: 22:48:58 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:30 timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-235.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:57 antifuchs: I know cl-irc is extensible, that's part of why I like it, but I meant like mIRC scripting (not that you'd want that as it is terrible) 22:50:21 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:51:49 no, nothing like that 22:51:52 well 22:52:12 you can define your own commands using CLIM, and you can wrap cl-irc methods for hooks 22:52:20 it's a bit lower-level than mIRC 22:52:24 but it's all there (: 22:52:46 i see. 22:57:04 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:00 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-159-194.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:05:08 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:09:02 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:43 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F7069.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:39 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:28 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-131-106.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:01 redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:11 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-235.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:17 timack [~tim@hlfx54-2b-46.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:23:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:23:54 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-183.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:32 exu0 [~u@dslb-188-105-051-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:39 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-131-106.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:50 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 23:34:00 -!- arborist [~arborist@e182024188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:34:01 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:39:20 -!- redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:55 -!- ehine1 [~ericyoda@69.205.154.161] has quit [] 23:40:58 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-162.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:26 redline6561-work [~redline65@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:41 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx54-2b-46.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:29 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 23:45:58 timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-75.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:46:24 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:24 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:49:37 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:24 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:51:44 -!- vervic [~vervic@188-23-230-56.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 23:52:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-5.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:51 no_nada [~chatzilla@adsl-69-224-150-185.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:24 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has joined #lisp 23:53:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:31 jesusito [~user@138.pool85-49-225.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 23:56:33 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:58 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-126-198.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:15 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:59:04 -!- jesusito [~user@138.pool85-49-225.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 23:59:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:59:36 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill