00:01:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5C13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:34 -!- k3yb1n [~abfen@77.41.107.190.dyn.supernet.com.bo] has left #lisp 00:02:36 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:42 pnq [~nick@AC814BDA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:44 -!- symbol___ [~symbol___@c-98-246-145-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:04:23 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-uuhoxduhjuyjlmpx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08:00 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:08:35 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:24 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:10 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:15 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-102-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:23:17 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:25:49 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:29 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:29:22 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:31 heh. I think I found a new benchmark of the term "batteries/delivery included" 00:31:12 (Erlang OTP... it even includes a way to encrypt the binaries so that you can provide a decryption key as license file) 00:31:26 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 00:32:48 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-202-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:53 ASau [~user@95-24-202-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:34:20 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-243-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:52 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-146-147.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:08 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:44:25 Good choice of CCL for that "Lispbox" project. There's something that just eats at you if using a tool knowing it can't be used for production (i.e. has threads). I know this is SBCL-land; but that CCL provides this to the average likely window-shopper (i.e., most likely a windows user) makes it, in a way, the reference CL implementation. 00:46:01 -!- HerrBlum` [~user@stgt-4d03a931.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:51:00 Modius: your post sounds both sensible and flaming 00:51:09 Yeah 00:51:09 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:55:07 Hi. 00:57:37 hello wislin 00:58:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:58:07 Hello beach. 00:58:18 Modius: perhaps rephrase as "reference newbie CL implementation" ? 00:58:29 wislin: How is learning Lisp going? 00:58:45 madnificent: But isn't it old/established/strong enough to run a server as well as anything else? 00:58:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:59:07 beach: only study it. 00:59:23 Modius: in my tests SBCL turned out to be faster. However SBCL does use more memory. 00:59:40 Reading cltl. 01:00:08 I have no project to practice. 01:00:12 wislin: That is not a great book to start with because it was written prior to the standard. 01:00:14 madnificent: I won't deny it; but I'm guessing it isn't in a different league (i.e. lisp->python); but a small factor, and probably varies based on what you're doing. Thing is, what makes one lisp fast makes CCL fast. 01:00:15 Modius: how about error messages? are they as sexy? and integration with slime? 01:00:52 which book you like? 01:01:08 madnificent: My point is just if it's industrial-strength, and it's cross platform (importantly, to windows), it IS the reference implementation. 01:01:35 *madnificent* doesn't think the term reference implementation is in place here 01:01:47 madnificent: Separate topic, I've used lispworks for a very long time so I don't know how good Slime integration can get; but error cases/autocomplete etc. etc. worked with ccl. 01:01:57 wislin: That's not the good question to ask, because the book I like is probably not any good for beginners. I suggest you start with PCL if you have prior programming experience. 01:02:27 beach: which one do you like? 01:02:34 Land of Lisp is also a pretty nice book. 01:03:21 madnificent: PAIP, AMOP, Keene, On Lisp, 01:04:28 Modius: CCL could be good to advice to new users though, that's something softer. It could also be advised for industrial-strength applications. Reference-implementation seems to be odd for CL. 01:04:36 after I finish cltl, I will read pcl 01:04:56 beach: didn't finish On Lisp, AMOP was awesome. I should probably read Keene and PAIP 01:05:12 Let over Lambda. 01:05:18 (maybe after "on lisp") 01:05:20 madnificent: Keene feels a bit old. PAIP is amazing in my opinion. 01:06:11 Depending on your background/comfort with first-class-function use etc., the SICP lectures, available online, are pretty profound. 01:07:28 Modius: I find that SICP is often read and appreciated by people with a lot of experience, and then they go right ahead and recommend it to newbies. 01:07:37 beach: I meant the lectures. 01:07:50 Oh, I see. Sorry. 01:08:21 beach: I think the first few can be of assistance in teaching the basics. I had a 11 year old girl (very strong math, had pushed some CL on her in the past) watch it and do/modify the examples (pausing of course) on Scheme on an iPad. 01:08:38 beach: I'll put it on my list :) 01:09:08 beach: is Keene just old, or isn't it a good read anymore? 01:09:13 beach: In some ways, passing functions around is scarier to us older hands. To a noob, if you taught cases where you pass them like nothing (i.e. in Scheme) you can add them to the toolbox. 01:10:01 madnificent: The examples feel old. It is still a good reference, but pedagogically, it could use some updating. 01:11:31 sounds fair 01:13:06 Modius: how old do you need to be to be scared by passing functions? Gödel demonstrated his theorem in 1932. Turing worked on his machines in 1934-1936 IIRC, and Church on the same period. And of course, this is the raison d'être of Lisp. 01:14:01 pjb: I assume that's rhetorical. I work in enterprise, C#3 - and I can tell you almost everyone at my very large company who writes code is very very fu**ing scared of passing functions. 01:14:21 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 01:14:23 Yeah.  is big. 01:14:28 Modius: then you're doing it wrong :) 01:14:52 madnificent: Hey, *I*'m not scared of first-class-functions; but the culture is. 01:15:23 Modius: they've learned programming in a wrong way. Their brain is messed up. 01:15:36 Modius: Some statistics: http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~leeey/stupidity/basic.htm ;-) 01:15:37 *madnificent* finally feels like zen ^_^ 01:15:51 madnificent: Most of us (myself included) are from C-type background. Some started with VB-type s**t (the "shouldn't even be programming" crowd common to my line of work). 01:16:10 Programmers are a strangely conservative bunch. One would think they would be among the most open-minded people out there, but that is not the case it seems. 01:16:11 My point is, IMHO, the SICP lectures would be a great start to computing. Iwish I started there all those years ago. 01:16:12 Modius: more over, you can pass functions in C too... 01:16:17 pjb: Not the same thing. 01:16:23 Only you have to build closures manually in C. 01:16:32 pjb: Making it impractical. 01:17:05 Modius: nothing that a couple of macros and a simple preprocessor can solve, and in the latests Objective-C and C, lambda are now included. 01:17:08 Many are what I would call "statically skilled" - they burned every shred of what they had inside them learning whatever trash they know, and are stuck there for life. 01:17:20 :-) 01:18:00 Modius: I came from there too, so what? 01:18:10 pjb: I like the ObjC ones, not sure on the C++. Problem is though, they're still burdensome enough that you couldn't teach good use of them in their host language, i.e. you'd be better off learning first-class-functions in scheme then applying your knowledge in ObjC than starting in ObjC and having to learn them alongside the insane syntax. 01:18:53 Indeed. You still have to declare useless types with those lambds. 01:18:55 madnificent: Hey, I eat lambdas and (when I can) macros with my cornflakes; but don't assume that more than a minority are like (I assume) us. 01:19:15 ^int(int x,int y){return(x+y);} IIRC. 01:19:32 beach: I've phrased that sometime as well. However at a certain point I read something in the range of "At a certain point in their life programmers learn their last language. They stick with it 'till they stop programming." I think it was written in the lights of Java. 01:19:35 pjb: ObjC is even more painful than that. C#3 isn't too bad most of the time. Problem with ObjC is that the syntax for declaring formal parameters or the function type itself are like C function pointer style, very troublesome when nested and not consistentn. 01:20:00 "Learned their last language" - I like that. 01:20:13 Well, I work with people, in C#3, whose last language was pre-.net visual basic. 01:21:04 Job for statically skilled people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWsMdN7HMuA 01:21:29 The "dead sea effect" article describes where a lot of programmers end up. 01:21:58 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 01:22:15 Many I know: Programming skill, 0, Decade of entrenchment, ability to prod support old garbage poorly automated systems: In excess of anything that can be trained in a reasonable time. 01:24:48 Programmers are a strangely conservative bunch. One would think they would be among the most open-minded people out there, but that is not the case it seems. <-- I think it comes from being intimately familiar with the guts of technology 01:26:07 I know that myself I'm extra-super-conservative when it comes to new tech 01:26:29 I think these are separate things. It is good to be conservative, lots of vapor out there. 01:26:53 And lots of tech choices that are arbitrarily equivalent, except that it would cost work to transition between them (to no benefit). 01:27:01 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-56-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: quit] 01:28:19 Modius: I think the other factor might be that we work in an especially fast-moving field, so the natural older age conservativeness kicks in much faster 01:29:06 / 01:30:17 arunkn [~user@59.92.94.159] has joined #lisp 01:32:12 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:53 hmm, so my code does something that breaks SBCL's thread controls 01:35:59 (eval-when(:execute :load-toplevel) (eval-when(:compile-toplevel) (print 'foo6))) , In cltl which said that if the form at the top level of a file to be compiled, foo6 is printed at compile time. I can not understand why the second eval-when will be execut? because the second eval-when not at the top level. 01:36:31 I can run http://paste.lisp.org/display/122360 and it works on a fresh image, but after my toplevel function is done, it stops doing anything 01:36:47 also the slime-selector thread controls stop working 01:37:42 wislin: a toplevel EVAL-WHEN also makes its body forms toplevel 01:37:47 just like a PROGN 01:37:59 so anything inside a toplevel EVAL-WHEN is toplevel 01:38:42 mathrick; thanks. 01:38:46 although it should only be the case for the specified phase, so overall I'd expect the inner PRINT not to trigger 01:39:10 but the specific semantics are a matter of finer reading than it's time for, I should be sleeping 01:41:56 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.127] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:42:07 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-klhtotlndmalxcnq] has joined #lisp 01:44:18 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 01:45:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:48:34 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:54 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:00:20 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:04:04 bindrinkin [~bindrinki@80.70.22.170] has joined #lisp 02:07:17 arunkn` [~user@59.92.56.100] has joined #lisp 02:08:34 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:08:40 -!- arunkn [~user@59.92.94.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:18 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:12:53 pnq1 [~nick@ACA564F7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:53 -!- arunkn` [~user@59.92.56.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:30 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814BDA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:22 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 02:17:48 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 02:32:00 leyyer_su [~user@222.210.67.173] has joined #lisp 02:32:51 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 02:35:15 clhs eval-when says: "The body of an eval-when form is processed as an implicit progn, but only in the situations listed. " 02:35:49 So I'd expect a conforming implementation not to evaluate ever any inner form in contradictory embedded eval-when forms. 02:38:07 However, the example with foo5 seems to contradict my interpretation. 02:38:55 And the example with foo6 explicitely contradicts it, the inner form must be evaluated at compilation-time... 02:40:21 Dalton001 [~Mark@cpe-76-189-202-35.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:34 Yep, it's puzzling, even considering that eval-when doesn't remove top-levelness of the forms... 02:44:29 Eval-when is difficult undstand. It is not a easy structure. 02:45:29 But why lots program use this esoteric structure? 02:45:41 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.194.5] has joined #lisp 02:48:58 -!- Dalton001 [~Mark@cpe-76-189-202-35.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Dalton001] 02:49:08 nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:51:05 <|3b|> wislin: the normal use case of eval-when is simple, which is to use all 3 settings to make something exist at compile time, for example when it would be needed during the expansion of a macro 02:52:24 *|3b|* suspects most people don't bother trying to figure out how to use it beyond that 02:56:08 Indeed. 02:57:01 wislin: eval-when is needed, because when compiled (with compile-file), most forms are not specified to have their full effects until load time. 02:58:02 wislin: eg. when compiling a file containing: (defun f () 'example) the compiler is only required to remember that F is a function, and nothing else. If you don't load the compiled file, then the system may very well not have kept the body of the function in memory. 02:58:46 wislin: this is a problem notably when you also define a macro that uses this function at macroexpansion time, which with compile-filel occurs at compilation time: the body of the function F is not activated, so the macroexpansion fails: 03:00:06 A file containing: (defun f (arg) `(sin ,arg)) (defmacro m (sinus (arg)) (f arg)) (defun g (x) (m sinus(x))) will fail because F is not defined when M uses it, at compilation time. 03:00:30 So you have to wrap the definition of F in an eval-when so that the full effects of the defun happen at compilation-time: 03:00:59 A file containing: (eval-when (:execute :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) (defun f (arg) `(sin ,arg))) (defmacro m (sinus (arg)) (f arg)) (defun g (x) (m sinus(x))) will compile and load and run correctly. 03:01:21 Notice that :execute means exectute at the REPL and also LOAD the source file! 03:01:29 :load-toplevel only means LOAD the binary file! 03:02:27 And that's about the only occasion when you may use eval-when, all the other cases are too puzzling. 03:06:08 pjb: thanks your lots interpret. 03:06:12 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 03:08:28 Dalton001 [~Mark@cpe-76-189-202-35.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:33 -!- Dalton001 [~Mark@cpe-76-189-202-35.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:13:43 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:10 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 03:18:29 Mac-naivete question: On the SBCL implementation matrix, is a typical new model Mac mini the X86 or the AMD64 (i.e. I know the mac is 64 bit; but which build is appropriate?) 03:19:09 amd64 is 64 bit. 03:19:16 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-0.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:31 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 03:27:24 leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.173] has joined #lisp 03:30:20 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.210.67.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:27 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:37:24 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:41:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:43:10 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA564F7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:58 pnq [~nick@ACA564F7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:16 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:51:16 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:39 -!- konr [~user@187.106.20.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:54:11 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:54:14 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:54:34 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:57:55 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 03:58:56 -!- leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:11 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:59:16 leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.173] has joined #lisp 04:00:15 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:21 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:38 amaron_ [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 04:04:57 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:05:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:08:38 -!- leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:39 leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.173] has joined #lisp 04:10:13 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 04:10:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.194.5] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:10:44 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:13:29 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:16:41 Testing my codebase on SBCL, all latest. I get an "Error wwhile invoking # on ..... - any way to diagnose this? There are no "caught error" in the dump, what usually causes this? 04:18:09 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 04:18:19 errors and warnings 04:19:32 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-234-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 04:22:46 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:54 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dqgsfqxlberntcvb] has joined #lisp 04:30:18 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:30:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33:46 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7EB26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:34:03 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7EB26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:36:39 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F5F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:45 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7F5F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:13 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:42:16 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 04:43:15 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:10 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 04:45:41 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BBED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:20 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7F5F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:47:20 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7F5F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:48:03 lanthan [~ze@p54B7BBED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:11 -!- bindrinkin [~bindrinki@80.70.22.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:51:24 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:30 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:21 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:18:17 nostoi [~nostoi@184.Red-83-50-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:49 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7BBED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:22:28 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.214.158] has joined #lisp 05:24:25 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:27:35 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BBED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:27:39 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 05:27:45 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 05:33:45 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-80.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-0.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:34:10 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:37:22 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:40 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:39:00 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:39:07 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:39:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:39:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:39:12 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 05:39:25 arunkn [~user@180.151.49.130] has joined #lisp 05:40:24 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7F146.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:20 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:41:41 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.214.158] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:44:35 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7EFD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:40 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7F146.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:07 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 05:47:51 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 05:49:29 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49:51 I installed the 64-bit SBCL on OSX - it says it doesn't have threads. . . Is Mac OSX SBCL supposedto support threads? 05:50:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:51:28 <|3b|> threads aren't enabled by default on sbcl osx, and don't work as well as on linux (don't know how much worse though, since i don't use osx) 05:51:57 By "not as well" I assume that's a stability thing. . .? 05:52:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:15 what 64bit version of osx? 05:52:26 10.6 05:52:43 i c 05:53:39 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-nleqominuqmmbkrv] has joined #lisp 05:53:39 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-nleqominuqmmbkrv] has quit [Changing host] 05:53:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:53:46 Which destop is best for lisp program development? mac , windows or linux? 05:54:10 sbcl kina wants to be on linux 05:54:39 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:55:15 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:58:50 sacho [~sacho@90.154.221.153] has joined #lisp 05:58:51 modius: I am running sbcl 1.0.46 ok on 10.6, believe it's a standard and 32bit quicklisp install 05:59:06 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:59:11 wislin: the one that suits you best. 05:59:15 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7FDCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:20 JuanDaugherty: Do you have threads working? 05:59:33 SFAIK 05:59:57 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 06:00:22 I believe ql executed whatever tests successfully 06:00:36 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7EFD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:00:44 Paste me what you see when you type *features* 06:00:52 <|3b|> JuanDaugherty: does (find :sb-thread *features*) return :sb-thread ? 06:01:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:01:47 wislin: On looking at languages, I've noticed a bias toward the bleeding edge programmers making their toolchains for linux first. Even when you can get builds for other platforms, side tools are a little trickier, or it's trickier on the other platform to rebuild from source. 06:01:48 y 06:02:24 wislin: From my experimentation, in order to get a good multithreaded lisp, on Windows that's (commercial) Lispworks, Mac it's Clozure/CCL, Linux probably SBCL 06:03:09 <|3b|> CCL should be OK on win and linux too 06:03:28 CCL is okay on win; but I can still break the multithreading on it. I hope they can rework it. 06:04:28 *|3b|* breaks things no matter which lisp i use :p 06:06:51 Now I use free lispworks on windows, and emacs-win + sbcl. 06:09:16 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7B914.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:19 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wxumdgcoonieeocx] has joined #lisp 06:09:26 I had never use mac+lisp. But find lot of people use lisp+ mac from http://tclispers.org/. 06:09:37 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:53 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:07 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:10:37 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@184.Red-83-50-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:10:56 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 06:10:59 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7FDCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:13:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:14:00 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:15:07 tirinim, live from ecrypt II:) 06:16:35 Modius, ":SB-THREAD :ANSI-CL :COMMON-LISP :SBCL :SB-DOC :SB-TEST :SB-LDB 06:16:35 :SB-PACKAGE-LOCKS :SB-UNICODE :SB-EVAL :SB-SOURCE-LOCATIONS 06:16:35 :IEEE-FLOATING-POINT :X86-64 :INODE64 :DARWIN9-OR-BETTER :UNIX :MACH-O :BSD 06:16:35 :DARWIN :MACH-EXCEPTION-HANDLER :SB-LUTEX :UD2-BREAKPOINTS :GENCGC 06:16:35 :STACK-GROWS-DOWNWARD-NOT-UPWARD :C-STACK-IS-CONTROL-STACK :LINKAGE-TABLE 06:16:35 :COMPARE-AND-SWAP-VOPS :UNWIND-TO-FRAME-AND-CALL-VOP :RAW-INSTANCE-INIT-VOPS 06:16:37 :STACK-ALLOCATABLE-CLOSURES :STACK-ALLOCATABLE-VECTORS 06:16:39 :STACK-ALLOCATABLE-LISTS :STACK-ALLOCATABLE-FIXED-OBJECTS :ALIEN-CALLBACKS 06:16:41 :CYCLE-COUNTER :COMPLEX-FLOAT-VOPS :FLOAT-EQL-VOPS :INLINE-CONSTANTS 06:16:43 :MEMORY-BARRIER-VOPS :OS-PROVIDES-DLOPEN :OS-PROVIDES-DLADDR 06:16:45 :OS-PROVIDES-PUTWC :OS-PROVIDES-BLKSIZE-T :OS-PROVIDES-SUSECONDS-T)" 06:17:14 holy pastebin 06:17:34 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 06:18:02 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7B914.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:19:20 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7DE5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:59 it was that or ignore eir query 06:20:46 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:20:46 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:20:46 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:20:54 <|3b|> better to ignore then :/ 06:21:47 *JuanDaugherty* acknowledged. 06:21:56 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 06:22:39 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 06:27:42 knightblader [knightblad@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-aszffisraxcpoklq] has joined #lisp 06:28:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-80.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:29:26 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 06:30:01 vlion [~user@c-98-247-140-223.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:08 Hi! pjb, how do know what's compile work ? should I read what book? "eg. when compiling a file containing: (defun f () 'example) the compiler is only required to remember that F is a function." 06:31:26 -!- arunkn [~user@180.151.49.130] has left #lisp 06:31:53 Should it be possible to have (:use :packageX) in package.lisp when creating a project with quickproject that :depends-on '(packageX)? I get name-conflicts when I try. 06:32:58 Or, what if I don't want to manually import everything I need to use to my package when using qp? 06:32:58 <|3b|> depends on whether packageX has names that conflict with whatever else is in the package being defined 06:33:22 There shouldn't be anything, I just created it. 06:34:01 <|3b|> with nothing else in the :use list? 06:34:02 Is it because I imported stuff, loaded it, and then changed my mind too late when stuff is already in the memory? 06:34:11 benny` [~benny@i577A7507.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:34:32 *|3b|* thinks there is some misunderstanding of what 'package' means in CL terms involved 06:34:38 Not expect :cl no. 06:34:59 I'd rather say there is a lack of understanding than an understanding :P 06:35:04 misunderstanding* 06:35:13 /msg pjb Hi! pjb, how do know what's compile work ? should I read what book? 06:35:13 "eg. when compiling a file containing: (defun f () 'example) the 06:35:13 compiler is only required to remember that F is a function." 06:35:13 06:35:14 <|3b|> that could be too :) 06:36:26 OK but you make it sounds like it should generally work so I'll try to start over. 06:36:38 <|3b|> if you previously defined the package, and tried to use it, then tried to define it with different :use, that is a good way to cause conflicts 06:36:56 <|3b|> or if you are using IMPORT by hand outside of defpackage, that is another way 06:37:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A13C6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:37:14 No import by hand, no. 06:37:18 -!- benny` is now known as benny 06:37:23 <|3b|> and similarly for USE-PACKAGE 06:37:51 -!- _6502_ [5e24f712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.247.18] has left #lisp 06:37:58 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7DE5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:38:03 <|3b|> (and it is also possible that :packageX just isn't designed to be :USEd, and will always conflict with :cl unless you shadow things explicitly) 06:38:45 <|3b|> or is designed to be :USEd without :cl 06:39:05 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:39:10 which isn't very :useful at all (-: 06:39:28 (or maybe packageX provides a packagex-cl package that you can use instead of cl 06:39:58 <|3b|> right, that was the type i was thinking of, c2cl for example 06:40:48 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:40:50 *|3b|* supposes "is designed to be :USEd in place of :cl" might have been a better way to phrase it 06:42:06 xan_ [~xan@185.Red-79-158-172.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:16 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:43:52 You're right, it was because it remembered some earlier :import-from. 06:44:22 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@185.Red-79-158-172.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:48:27 -!- leyyer_s` [~user@222.210.67.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-16.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:49:20 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:44 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:49:48 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA564F7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52:24 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 06:53:11 _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.107] has joined #lisp 06:54:53 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007043.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 06:55:16 splittist [~splittist@245-154.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:55:24 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:56:41 morning 06:58:08 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:33 good morning 07:05:20 Good evening :p 07:05:39 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 hi 07:06:08 Good morning. 07:06:32 So what are you chaps up to then? 07:12:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007043.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:19:00 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19:39 kupad [~kupad@dsl254-079-179.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:31 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:37 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-22-246.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:23:30 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-32-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:45 -!- knightblader [knightblad@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-aszffisraxcpoklq] has left #lisp 07:25:49 knightblader [knightblad@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-aszffisraxcpoklq] has joined #lisp 07:25:51 names 07:30:56 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:31:25 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:31:27 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:23 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:34:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:00 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:04 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 07:37:05 wislin: all questions about CL can be resolved reading the CLHS, the Common Lisp Hyperspec. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 07:38:22 wislin: slime gives you direct access to the dictionary sections of the clhs: M-x slime-hyperspec-lookup RET compile-file RET 07:38:40 wislin: but remember reading the beginning of each chapter, which gives important general information. 07:39:29 wislin: I bind clhs lookup to C-h y: (global-set-key (kbd "C-h y") 'slime-hyperspec-lookup) in ~/.emacs 07:42:04 -!- kupad [~kupad@dsl254-079-179.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #lisp 07:45:52 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 07:46:14 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vqjyijbawljzopce] has joined #lisp 07:46:40 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:48:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.132.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:49:28 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:02 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007036.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 07:54:03 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vqjyijbawljzopce] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:54:16 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:54:43 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 07:56:11 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:32 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-diukricyceccqbvw] has joined #lisp 08:02:02 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has joined #lisp 08:04:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007036.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:10:01 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:12:21 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 08:12:51 -!- vlion [~user@c-98-247-140-223.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:13:47 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:17:16 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:18:22 -!- knightblader [knightblad@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-aszffisraxcpoklq] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:19:07 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ummmgbhwtvfshzvw] has joined #lisp 08:19:41 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:19:59 morning 08:20:56 hm. sbcl's still not frozen. i wonder if i should try squeeze in one more thing before jsnell calls the freeze 08:24:25 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:26:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:26:34 -!- trigen` is now known as trigen 08:29:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-178-201-97.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:36:23 nikodemus_: followup to my thread woes, apparently my code causes it somehow. It works on a fresh SBCL image, but breaks after my toplevel function runs. It seems to be hosing the threads somehow, slime-threads stops being able to kill threads afterwards too 08:36:47 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:37:57 mathrick: see 1.3.2 in here: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Reporting-Bugs # it tells you how to use gdb to get backtraces in a situation like that 08:38:16 ok 08:38:44 (just the steps 5. and 6. there) 08:41:14 yup 08:41:29 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.80.225] has joined #lisp 08:43:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:44:30 nikodemus: there's slime-attach-gdb; in swank-sbcl.lisp you can define gdb makros etc. available there. Might make sense to define a c_backtrace() 08:45:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:46:59 hi 08:47:52 Posterdati: LDA #"HELLO" ; STA $0400 08:48:07 flip214: you can't 08:48:29 (lap (lda "hello") (sta #x400)) 08:48:34 Yes, you can. 08:48:53 yes, A is 8bit only ... do I have to write the complete loop, with STA $0400,X in it? 08:49:04 flip214: yes 08:49:25 flip214: I don't recall if you can use such: lda mystring,y 08:49:57 http://www.obelisk.demon.co.uk/6502/addressing.html 08:49:59 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:37 LDX #0 ; LDY #5 ; L: LDA "HELLO",X ; STA $0400,X ; INC X; DEC Y; BNE L 08:50:40 or something like that 08:51:22 mathrick annotated #122360 "GDB trace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122360#1 08:51:24 y was for indirect zero-page addressing - the (const + y) gave the zero-page address where the destination address was found IIRC 08:51:52 nikodemus_: done, I don't know why I only got 3 traces from SBCL 08:52:45 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:53:03 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:53:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:54:35 mathrick: any chance there are foreign threads not started by sbcl? 08:55:16 nikodemus_: I would be very surprised, I use GTK+, but that doesn't spawn any threads I know of 08:55:17 oooh 08:55:37 it might be whatever the accessibility thing is sometimes spawning to do its thing 08:55:47 I know it broke bindings before that 08:56:21 mathrick: strace, maybe, and see if there are threads created that don't correspond to ones you make 08:57:13 strace doesn't really work with SBCL, does it? 08:57:19 one of those threads also very much looks like it is uninterruptible 08:57:34 I remember seeing a lot of Segmentation violations, and SBCL crashes afterwards 08:58:37 flip214: you're probably thinking of gdb, and running it in manner that interferes with sbcl's signal handling (GC uses SIGSEGV to mark pages dirty) 08:58:41 nikodemus_: which one? 08:58:42 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 08:59:00 i don't remember any trouble with strace, but it's been a while since i last needed it 08:59:06 so maybe i misremember 08:59:09 I remember trouble with strace 08:59:24 ldx #$05; myloop : lda mystring,x; sta $0400,x; dex; bne myloop; brk; mystring : db "hello" 08:59:25 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:59:27 "strace -e open sbcl" gives almost immediately 08:59:32 flip214: ldx #$05; myloop : lda mystring,x; sta $0400,x; dex; bne myloop; brk; mystring : db "hello" 08:59:36 flip214: should work 08:59:37 Memory fault at 40200066 (pc=0x100058e8dd, sp=0x7ffff6d51d50) 08:59:37 The integrity of this image is possibly compromised. 08:59:45 mathrick: the first lisp thread in there 09:00:09 Posterdati: thanks - just wrote from memory, which seems to mixed up with 80x86 assembler. yours looks much better! 09:00:18 nikodemus_: aka "thread 5"? 09:00:42 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:00:55 thread 2 is also sitting in a futex_wait 09:02:38 nikodemus_: btw, I retested on a non-SLIME SBCL, and it breaks as well 09:02:53 I just didn't notice before it worked on a fresh session, SLIME or not 09:03:06 so I'll get a SLIME-less backtrace to make it clearer 09:04:29 flip214: huh, i never noticed that. i must have always used strace -p to attach to an already running sbcl, which appears to work fine 09:05:05 i wonder why it breaks like that 09:05:07 flip214: works fine if you attach it later 09:05:38 Then I don't see which files are loaded on startup ... which was the use-case I had some time ago 09:05:55 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has joined #lisp 09:06:29 No, it doesn't ... sbcl started normally, attached, trying REPL gives me 09:06:31 CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 31076(tid 140737353967360): 09:06:31 Memory fault at 38f86ce7 (pc=0x100502d0f7, sp=0x7ffff6d67540) 09:06:31 The integrity of this image is possibly compromised. 09:06:45 Debian testing/unstable, SBCL 1.0.48.0, AMD64 09:07:15 maybe it works if I disable the gc 09:07:21 didn't try that, though 09:07:35 you can strace -e trace=open sbcl 09:12:33 mathrick annotated #122360 "GDB trace, without SLIME" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122360#2 09:12:38 nikodemus_: updated 09:13:11 there doesn't seem to be any change in the "after" state 09:15:13 that's very odd 09:15:16 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-115-31-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:15:21 lemme see if any threads I don't expect show up in a strace 09:16:47 oudeis [~oudeis@82.166.248.14] has joined #lisp 09:16:51 ah, I get the corruption warnings too 09:17:22 so no luck here 09:18:35 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.80.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:19:08 stassats`: sorry, no. "CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 3514(tid 140737353967360):" etc 09:19:33 *mathrick* tries with -e singnal=none 09:19:35 z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 09:19:36 -!- z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:19:36 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 09:21:16 nope 09:22:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:25:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:44 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:30 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #lisp 09:34:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:42 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 09:41:49 mathrick: here's what i would do: upgrade sbcl (just because), look up the name of the feature that makes sbcl/linux use SIGILL for error traps instead of SIGTRAP and build with it (not using SIGTRAP makes SBCL more gdb friendly to run), then i would run under gdb 09:42:23 first i would try to understand why it hangs when it hangs (signal masks, etc) 09:42:48 then i would try to find out when whatever goes out of whack goes out of whack 09:43:46 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:44:23 those failing, i would start bisecting the problematic run. run half of it, and see if sbcl breaks. keep bisecting till you reach the point at which sbcl breaks -- at which point the issue is usually pretty obvious 09:44:58 tedious as hell, and not quite straightforward if you have multiple threads -- but doable, and pretty reliable in zeroing in on the issue 09:46:03 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 09:47:02 if you don't feel at home in gdb, you can skip directly to bisection, of course. :) 09:48:01 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:05 mathrick: you can already do that. 09:50:41 spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 09:51:05 jdz [~jdz@host49-108-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:51:23 cleary, the next step is to reply to Michael Pheasant (mail from 2009-12-07), answering "yes, please" to his question whether he should open a launchpad bug for strace not being functional 09:51:38 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:13 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:24 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:53:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:00 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:26 http://www.vidarholen.net/~vidar/rage/13067492243650.html 09:55:24 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:31 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:36 lichtblau: ... 09:56:07 i still have 40+ unread sbcl-devel mails, and i know there are other things that have fallen off my radar 09:56:21 need more minions 09:56:40 irc is much more interesting, when it's illustrated by vidarholen :-) 09:56:41 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:56:51 even the one that used to hang here is gone. he was a useful fellow, quoted clhs and all 09:59:01 -!- spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:02:40 Zeiris [~Zeiris@S010600a0d1423e73.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:07 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:05:07 not being able to attach gdb to a process that's already being ptrace'd doesn't make this simpler 10:06:14 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:07:15 ay 10:08:03 i talked with nyef at one point about teaching sbcl how to ptrace another sbcl 10:08:43 he had some cogent thoughts about that, but i can't for the life of me remember what 10:09:20 Formatting/style question: what can I do to make the following code les eyebleedingly hideous? https://gist.github.com/998684 10:09:36 (Asides from finding a pastebin with syntax highlighting of some sort.) 10:10:04 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:10:04 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 10:11:17 that doesn't look like Common Lisp 10:11:55 perhaps that's the reason why it's so hideous 10:13:52 The lack of mutable variables, pattern matching rather than simple assignment, and constant function arity are problematic, aye. 10:14:04 However, that doesn't seem to be all. 10:14:15 Xach: herep? 10:15:44 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:34 jdz: hi there 10:18:14 -!- nannto [~nanto@pee5b70.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:19:07 Xach: straight to the problem: the rfc2388-latest.tar.gz on common-lisp.net does not really correspond to the latest version that is in CVS; i'm trying now to resurrect my GPG stuff to create a newer tarball 10:19:22 Xach: but maybe i should just move it to git/github? 10:19:57 Xach: there is a bug fixed in CVS 10:20:40 *Xach* is sure he doesn't know 10:22:37 jdz: have you forgotten your passphrase? 10:22:54 ok, it's definitely signal handling. SBCL works just fine under strace, as long as e.g. no GC gets triggered. Explicit GC is also fine. The segfault that happens on GC reports an address that is in nowhere land (looks like a 32 bit address, from which dynamic space is a few galaxies away). 10:23:06 Cute effect also: C-c with strace attached leads to a cute 'segfault at address 0' loop, that fixes itself the moment strace unattaches. 10:23:35 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.26.44] has joined #lisp 10:23:45 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082A441.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:49 hunh 10:23:51 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:24:15 nikodemus_: that's only a part of the problem. another one is that i have a backup with some .gpg files and i'm not yet sure i actually can get it back 10:24:16 lichtblau: how come you're not on #sbcl, by the way? 10:24:38 I thought this here is effectively #sbcl :-) 10:24:54 jdz: i have some code to crack passphases if you have good idea of what the component words are 10:24:58 i have publing.gpg, secring.gpg and trustdb.gpg 10:25:10 pubring even 10:25:23 jdz: why does your gpg key matter? 10:25:58 Xach: i used it to sign tarballs on c-l.net 10:26:04 jdz: Why? 10:26:16 Xach: so that you can trust it was me :) 10:26:27 jdz: Has anyone ever done that? 10:26:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:35 Hi all! 10:26:36 Xach: the checking? 10:26:40 jdz: Yes. 10:26:47 you need to sign the key first 10:26:49 Xach: i don't know. there are some paranoid people in the world. 10:27:15 lichtblau: sure, but this has much else as well 10:27:49 jdz: Who has signed your key? 10:27:54 and #sbcl is more internals focused 10:28:20 Xach: we did the keysigning party in the first ECLM in Amsterdam 10:28:23 Nice. 10:28:31 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:28:40 and quiet, so things don't get lost in the logs so quickly -- easier to carry on a conversation that spans hours between comments :) 10:28:42 yeah, that's the important reason to resurrect the key 10:28:58 how do they know that that weren't your doppelganger? 10:29:41 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:04 i guess they would not if you just did not tell them 10:33:28 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.29.20] has joined #lisp 10:36:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 10:40:16 jdz: do you want the cracking code? 10:40:39 or do you have that already? saved me a crapload of time a couple of weeks back, trying umpteen variants 10:41:08 nikodemus_: probably not; it seems that the stuff i found was for a different key 10:41:31 nikodemus_: but thanks for offering the help 10:41:36 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:41:55 nikodemus_: there is still chance it is on my old computer at home, but i'll get to it after a month 10:42:31 nikodemus_: have you made that thing yourself? 10:45:09 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:46:08 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-178-122.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:46:20 jdz: it's less than 50 lines -- i knew what letter substitutions could be involved, which made it easy 10:47:27 hey can anyone tell me the basic syntax for reading a line from a table using a key to identify the row using Postgres? Cant seem to get it happening.. 10:48:24 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:48:52 mobydick: "select * from table where key = 'foo'" 10:49:07 mobydick: not really on-topic though. plenty of good sql, postgres books, websites. 10:49:12 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.198] has joined #lisp 10:52:08 xach: thanks, i've been reading everything i can find but keep getting stuck on the syntax and am confused from the postmodern refernce manual 10:52:21 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@82.166.248.14] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:52:36 currently using: (:select 'no-of-logins :from 'login-details :where (:key '2)) 10:52:39 I think postmodern will be somewhat difficult to use if you don't already know SQL. 10:53:50 mobydick: I liked (many years ago) The Practical SQL Handbook and SQL For Smarties. There might be better options now. 10:54:22 mobydick: it's probably better to become familiar with proper SQL before you start using postmodern's syntax 10:56:07 ok point taken 10:56:53 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 10:57:47 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has joined #lisp 10:58:09 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:32 add^_ [~add^_^@h97n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:38 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04:56 mobydick: the :where (:key 2)) looks wrong 11:05:02 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:05:21 mobydick: you probably want :where (:= 'name-of-the-key-column 2) 11:05:57 jdz: ahh ok thanks i see now 11:12:46 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:17:02 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:19:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:02 not that anybody cares, but i found the right GPG key in my backups 11:22:42 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dqgsfqxlberntcvb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:26 it's a warm and fuzzy feeling! 11:23:53 yeah, now what command i should use to start testing passphrases? 11:24:28 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.160.63] has joined #lisp 11:25:06 jdz: just paste all your usual passwords and we'll help guess (: 11:25:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-goragbqsnnknvfil] has joined #lisp 11:25:18 riiiight 11:25:35 nikodemus pasted "try this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122362 11:25:59 i'll leave you to write the fun part :) 11:26:25 nikodemus_: thanks 11:27:18 ~/tmp/in is something to decrypt 11:28:51 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:54 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:30:05 yay, guessed it with like 23rd attempt 11:30:12 great success! 11:30:29 jdz: you can safely type your password here; all we'll see is "*******" (that was my password) 11:30:49 flip214: that's old, and works only in facebook 11:31:04 http://bash.org/?244321 11:31:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-goragbqsnnknvfil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:33:19 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:33:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jfgnfwjaealsoscu] has joined #lisp 11:33:44 flip214: ok, you proved me wrong 11:33:55 how so? 11:34:59 well, it was stupid enough when somebody did it on facebook (at least they know your password and it probably might be able to do it); but an IRC client? there's very little hope for humanity in general... 11:35:43 i would hope that facebook doesn't keep unhashed passwords 11:43:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:14 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:37 has anybody used Caché database with lisp or heard of such a thing? 11:51:53 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:14 Xach: for your next distribution update, there's a new rfc2388 release 11:52:29 (for some values of "release") 11:55:11 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ummmgbhwtvfshzvw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:00:36 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 12:01:06 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:01:19 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:47 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:01:48 Keeping unhashed ******** isn't even the worst of this feature, it's that it can publish your password inadvertantly. 12:04:43 hi 12:06:00 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:34 pjb: I'm studying macro usage on Lisp... The question is should a macro be used to generate code to adapt functions to data? 12:06:53 You can say it like this yes. 12:07:31 pjb: I mean I did a program that creates different matrices, but operations to do that is quite the same for every different matrix 12:07:37 You can use macros to implement data driven programming style. Or said otherwise, to implement interpreters ("interpreter pattern"). 12:08:32 pjb: those matrices have to be updated during a loop, should I program a macro instead use different functions? 12:08:41 Well, the important point with macros, is that they're the tools that allows you to transform data into code IN YOUR SOURCE. 12:09:02 So if those matrices are not code, but just data, you should not need macros to process them. 12:09:51 However, you can invent a language to process matrix, a MATP (MATrix Processing language), and then, you can define operators (functions and macros) for this language. 12:10:09 pjb: that sounds like an impressively stupid feature, alright 12:10:20 For example, in LISP (LISt Processing), we have the functions cons, car, cdr, and the macros setf, push and pop. 12:10:29 pjb: so, I can write one function dealing with different kind of matrix (data) just testing for their characteristics 12:10:37 Yes. 12:10:53 For matrices, functions will be enough most of the time. 12:11:00 pjb: and reserve macros to extend SOURCE functionality 12:11:13 There's one place where you might want to write a macro to process matrices. It's when looping over all the cells. 12:11:52 Insteal of having embedded loops, you can write a macro that will loop over the cells in a single operator. 12:12:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:49 silenius [~silenus@p54947001.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:11 Harag: still stuck on that performance problem, huh? 12:13:12 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:13:22 pjb: so one could think that a macro is a function that has got domain = code and co-domain = code 12:14:23 Indeed. A macro is nothing more than a hook into the compiler to transform code (ex. data) into code (new data for the compiler). 12:14:31 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:43 pjb: ok, so one could create a selfmodfing code based on input data 12:16:19 Macros are expanded only once, at compilation time, so no self modification occurs there. 12:17:00 -!- splittist [~splittist@245-154.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17:25 pjb: but you can create different code at expansion time based on external input 12:17:36 In lisp, self modification is archieved at the function or method granularity. You can write: (progn (f) (setf (symbol-function 'f) (compile 'f (generate-new-lambda-expression))) (f)) 12:17:41 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-mtumsstdqzkawlog] has joined #lisp 12:17:53 pjb: ah ok 12:18:07 nikodemus_phone [~androirc@87-95-196-47.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:18:58 Posterdati: It could be possible to write: (defmacro m () (read)), but it's not conforming, because contrarily to what I said, it's not specified actually how many times, and when macros are expanded. Therefore they should not have side effects (or at least, they should be idempotent). 12:19:38 Notably: a compiler could expand a macro several times for its own needs. Also, macros can be expanded by tools such as editors, code walkers, debuggers. 12:21:13 Harag, I'd heard of them (InterSystems) but forgot (with cause) 12:22:44 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:23:46 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 Posterdati: be sure to have a look at Casting Spells. 12:24:17 Casting Spels in Lisp, Conrad Barski, M.D., http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 12:24:47 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has joined #lisp 12:24:58 pjb: only once? surely, also eval time allows for macro expansion to be done "dynamically". 12:25:19 I doubt, because of minimal compilation. Let's see. 12:26:50 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:27:34 urandom__ [~user@p548A45E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:40 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:27:58 jdz: you're fired 12:28:29 jdz: you made a tarball that unpacks into the current directory! 12:28:44 burn jdz! he's a witch! 12:28:45 Bad bad bad. 12:29:16 hypno: Yes, that seems correct. Only compile and compile-file are required to implement minimal compilation. Eval can expand the macros several times. 12:30:10 pjb: ok, good. :) 12:31:07 (The interpreter of clisp expands the macro only once in defun, but several times in the form passed to eval. 12:31:09 ) 12:32:27 that is unfortunate. lw/acl does it automagically, which i love. 12:32:44 Xach: noooo 12:32:56 really? (defmacro m () (print '(in m)) 'nil) (eval '(loop repeat 3 do (m))) 12:32:57 Xach: ok, off to fix that 12:33:00 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 12:33:11 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:33:24 Well, sbcl compiles it away, so anything is possible. 12:33:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:33:31 pjb: as in you can change the macro in a defun if you're running interpreted, yes. 12:34:56 Xach: fixed. 12:36:52 ooh, ECLM seems like something I might actually be able to go to this year 12:36:57 if I can finance it, that is 12:37:11 madnificent: link, please? 12:37:12 *Bacteria* sings "compile your problems away" 12:37:35 flip214: tweet of xach contained http://weitz.de/eclm2011/ 12:37:43 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:37:44 yes, thanks, got it 12:37:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:39:24 Still no PDF for "Compiling for the common case" 12:40:19 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:40:58 how can I force backquote expansion? 12:41:11 I pass backquote expression to a macro I want to expand it inside that macro 12:41:18 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 12:42:03 BTW, having some other kind of string-type that's encoded in UTF8, stored as bytes, would be nice ... even if I can't use AREF to simply get characters 12:42:16 freiksenet: how about just passing the result? 12:42:43 or use (SECOND), if you know that (EQ (first expr) 'backq) 12:43:07 freiksenet: That sounds confused 12:43:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:43:37 backquote is just syntax around LIST, LIST*, APPEND and NCONC 12:44:07 maybe I should make that thing function, not a macro, hmm. 12:44:12 nm, thanks 12:45:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:04 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has joined #lisp 12:46:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:40 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has joined #lisp 12:46:51 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:47 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:51:32 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-mtumsstdqzkawlog] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:51:43 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.168.70] has joined #lisp 12:54:16 pjb: I read this :) 12:59:06 Xach: oh? I thought the format and everything were undocumented? 12:59:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:59:57 mathrick: That is true. 12:59:57 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:17 Xach: are they stable? 13:00:22 mathrick: If you meant to ask "When will you make it easy?" the answer is different. 13:00:31 mathrick: Not especially. 13:01:04 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has joined #lisp 13:01:23 nikodemus [~androirc@178-55-4-94.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:01:51 Xach: so yeah, that was what I meant, have them reasonably stable and approachable 13:03:19 Dunno. 13:04:10 -!- nikodemus_phone [~androirc@87-95-196-47.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:05:11 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:54 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-wfqzbkrtjnawabvm] has joined #lisp 13:11:22 -!- nikodemus [~androirc@178-55-4-94.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:11:23 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:14:41 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:37 is there a more recent peg packrat parser generator than cl-peg? 13:15:38 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jfgnfwjaealsoscu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:03 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:45 There's nikodemus's esrap. 13:16:58 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:17:04 gna. just saw the bug is fixed in darcs 13:18:26 thanks for the pointer, pkhuong 13:19:29 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947001.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:46 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:24:28 -!- nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-140.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:35 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-140.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:30:23 nikodemus_: argh, I'd like to see it fixed, but I don't have the time right now, I basically went back to linux because windows magically started crapping out on me and I wanted to avoid having to debug it 13:34:46 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 _pw_` [~user@125.34.46.107] has joined #lisp 13:36:17 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.46.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:05 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-115-31-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:46 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-115-31-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:42:15 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-151-34.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:24 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 13:42:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 13:42:24 mstevens 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[~jdz@host49-108-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:53 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:14 -!- Yuzu- is now known as Yuzuchan 14:23:44 gaidal [~gaidal@121.8.247.191] has joined #lisp 14:25:51 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:27:04 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.26.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:59 jdz [~jdz@host229-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:30:53 pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122304#1 14:31:30 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:37:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:38:11 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 14:39:58 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 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[~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.254.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19:32 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:22:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:22:18 gadek [~konrad@ablv186.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:22:51 Hi! I made a new project with Quickproject, but it didn't specify the project-system package. What was again the advantage of defining a separate package for the system definition? 15:23:38 I mean it didn't make "projectname-system", just a package "projectname" 15:25:39 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has left #lisp 15:25:49 Any example of how to grovel ASDF2 inputs? 15:26:26 Maybe I start it more simply without the "projectname-system" -package. 15:27:26 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:37 peterhil: that's pretty common 15:29:14 a separate system package matters mostly if you have custom methods and classes in there 15:32:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:57 Oh, yes that was the reason. Thanks. 15:33:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:33:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:34:36 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:37:14 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:20 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:38:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@180.151.42.39] has joined #lisp 15:39:42 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 15:41:17 okay, this baffles me to no end: I can open "libgtk-win32-2.0-0.dll" in SBCL/Win32 just fine, but when run under emacs, the same SBCL fails miserably 15:41:53 Who was the hu.dwim developer I spoke to here a couple of days ago? 15:42:08 with error 127 15:43:55 loke: either attila_lendvai or Levente 15:44:04 ah, attila I think 15:44:06 thanks 15:44:20 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@180.151.42.39] has left #lisp 15:45:19 -!- museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:45:27 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-115-31-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:45:36 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@91-115-31-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:51 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p2159-ipad64osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 15:53:15 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:49 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.29] has joined #lisp 15:59:34 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 16:01:07 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 16:04:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.254.23] has joined #lisp 16:05:25 HG` [~HG@p5DC04E1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:06 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8293C9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:08:13 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 16:08:26 pnq [~nick@AC81A56D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:10 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-diukricyceccqbvw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:05 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-8-236.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:12:10 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.139.219.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:18 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 16:18:12 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.160.63] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:02 mathrick: perhaps emacs/slime is setting default-pathname-defaults to something unexpected? 16:20:54 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.221.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:01 Fade: unlikely, since it even persists under SBCL launched as a plain subprocess, not inferior lisp 16:22:14 I have honestly no idea what emacs could change 16:22:19 but it does apparently 16:22:38 just to test it, I launched cmd.exe in eshell, then sbcl  error 16:22:50 cmd.exe launched normally, then sbcl  works fine 16:23:45 moreover the error reported is 127, which is apparently "cannot find specified entry point in DLL" or somesuch 16:23:48 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A56D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:24:02 which means it finds the .dll, then fails to initialise it 16:24:05 windows library loading is horrible 16:25:58 mathrick: lichtblau and the russia power duo are the people you want to talk to about windows 16:26:07 aye 16:26:10 russian, even 16:26:36 mathrick: yeah, unless the answer is _really_ obvious (wrong %PATH% or so), I'd recommend asking on the list, where that "power duo" will see it 16:27:10 I'm still too busy fighting the Linux kernel to be really into Windows issues. 16:27:48 lichtblau: I can lend you some of my linux kernel hate if you want :) 16:27:53 lichtblau: what's the status of the heap extension patch, by the way? 16:28:06 i might have use for it at some point 16:28:09 Seriously, unitialized si_addr? On x86? 16:28:58 *uninitialized 16:29:17 are you using 3.0-rc? I have a horrible feeling about some uname() code lurking somewhere 16:29:22 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wxumdgcoonieeocx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:34 pnq [~nick@AC819BD2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:46 there's 3.0-rc? 16:30:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.254.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:30:49 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:55 since today 16:31:59 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:32:16 | Linux kernel developers do not only fix security bugs silently, they also suck leagues above my incompetence to debug their code. 16:32:19 I'm not entirely certain what that sentence means, but I agree wholeheartedly with it. 16:32:34 heh 16:32:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:16 sacho [~sacho@90.154.192.53] has joined #lisp 16:35:47 no, a stable release. Perhaps our user-defined ldt entry is hitting a special case? Accesses through the descriptor in %gs work fine, but %fs:foo misreports foo as 0 if %fs is set to our ldt entry. 16:36:22 *lichtblau* adds another level of indirection 16:38:47 nikodemus_: it's waiting for someone to find a use case! 16:39:17 is there an upto date tree? 16:39:23 oudeis [~oudeis@DSL212-143-220-8.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:40:43 nikodemus_: heap extension being "you don't need to reserve up-front all the address space you ever intend to use"? 16:40:52 It really plays well with strictly non-overcommitting Linux, but didn't seem important enough otherwise. No recent tree, no. 16:40:55 (use case being heap exhaustions from bogus inputs -- more reliable error recovery would be very good. it would be even better if the heap could than be told to shrink back down later if it can) 16:40:57 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:41:10 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:42:26 The soft heap limit error (and restart) which replace the not-needed-anymore hard limit could be pulled very easily into a standard SBCL branch if that's what you're after though. 16:42:59 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:02 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.139.219.96] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:03 tmh [6397206e@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:43:10 Greetings lispers. 16:43:37 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.34] has joined #lisp 16:44:23 hellows 16:44:26 hokay, so I worked around the win32 issue by using slime-connect instead 16:44:55 *mathrick* hopes that finally gives him one working setup between 2 OS's and three versions of SBCL 16:45:54 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 16:47:29 lichtblau: i would utterly rock 16:47:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:21 one of the things i most hate about debugging heap exhaustions is that you have to catch the system in a state where the heap isn't _too_ full, but still full enough to be representative of what's going on 16:48:37 and the it invariable goes *boom* while you're poking at it 16:49:02 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:49:06 s/i would/it would/ :) 16:49:44 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 16:50:01 Whenever I get a heap exhaustion, it is usually some easily identifiable brutish mistake involving a loop. 16:50:09 Not much debugging necessary. 16:51:12 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.192.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:52:45 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53:17 tmh: now you're just being practical 16:53:26 tmh: the obvious solution is to increase the heap size 16:53:34 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:40 sacho [~sacho@90.154.192.53] has joined #lisp 16:53:46 if it exceeds available memory, you put more memory in the machine 16:54:08 loke: I was just thinking that. ;-) 16:54:57 if you can't afford more memory, solving the problem is obviously not that important to you 16:56:26 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 16:59:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:59:46 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 17:02:45 loke: :-) 17:02:50 oops 17:02:53 tmh: :-) 17:03:35 :-) 17:04:23 Today is the day I refactor a bunch o' crap that I've been putting off. I'm hopping to eliminate a bunch of LOC. 17:05:13 tmh: I have a bunch of things that must be done, but I've been putting them off ofr a long time now 17:05:14 wow, Xach is going to talk at ECLM? awesome 17:05:23 I should get a plane ticket for that alone (: 17:05:31 and soon the PSN Store will be up, and I'll be buying a pile of new games, so who knows when I'll have time :-) 17:07:39 Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 17:07:39 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:06 I'd really like to go to ECLM, but it's just not in the cards at the moment. 17:09:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:58 yeah. I'll have to see if I can attend, but it looks like a really great meeting 17:10:19 Xach, Luke, Nick Levine, H4ns. That's a pretty brilliant lineup. 17:10:48 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:52 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:22 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:25 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:12:38 does anybody know off hand what the difference is between rucksack and bknr.datastore? 17:12:43 if any 17:14:01 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-16.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:01 different people designed them (: 17:14:09 not sure what the technical differences are (: 17:14:22 I _think_ rucksack is mostly an in-memory persistence layer that can serialize to disk. I thought bknr.datastor backends to a trad rdbms? 17:14:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 17:15:05 last I looked, bnkr.datastore was in-memory and wrote to disk transactionally. 17:15:10 but hm, not sure anymore. 17:15:22 ditto. it has been a long time since I looked at it. 17:15:29 *Fade* refers harag to the googles. 17:17:32 glidesurfer_ [~glidesurf@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:40 -!- glidesurfer_ [~glidesurf@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:30 well from what I can see both have transactions and both have persistent classes and indexes on slot and class so far the only difference I can see is that in bknr.datastore you have to explicitly do a snapshot to write to disk where as rucksack writes to disk if anything changes... 17:21:02 Harag: bknr.datastore and rucksack both provide persistent class abstractions. 17:21:20 rucksack also does not seem to be able to handle reading and writing from multiple sources at the same time...something that they are working on 17:21:51 unless they rebranded bknr.datastore since I last used it... the datastore keeps the entire database in-memory and writes a transaction log of every change to disk, so your data -is- persisted right away. 17:22:10 ok 17:22:15 you take snapshots not to persist, but to speed up the process of reloading the database. 17:22:23 or to just have nice snapshots that you can reload later. 17:23:12 rucksack is an object database written in CL, and iirc, does not keep the whole db in memory. 17:24:31 does rucksack not have a cache where you can load what you need into memory? 17:25:45 I have read so much stuff about db's in the last few days that it is becoming a blur... 17:26:38 IIRC it has an in-transaction cache, but not otherwise 17:26:55 I don't remember. You can read more about rucksack here: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060604.html 17:27:05 but might be my idea of what it does is years out of date 17:27:08 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:23 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.168.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:17 last I asked drewc about it, he was talking about some complete rewrite with mapreduce... 17:28:33 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.192.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:29:29 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:29:42 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.89.246] has joined #lisp 17:30:05 oh, looky! coffee :) 17:30:49 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 17:31:12 from what I can see in the docs objects retrieved from disk is automatically put in the cash by rucksack so next time you call it it comes from cache 17:31:22 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:31:56 but does that cache exist between two transactions? 17:32:08 or rather persist 17:33:25 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:39 *tmh* needs to pay attention to this conversation. 17:33:49 that is pretty neat: http://anders.janmyr.com/2011/05/ruby-exceptional-language.html - extending internal errors by dynamically subclassing them (: 17:34:16 "So we keep a hashtable of objects that have been loaded from disk and 17:34:18 a separate hashtable of objects that have been changed since they were 17:34:21 loaded. If we can't find an object in one of those hashtables we load 17:34:22 it from disk." 17:34:26 looks like it persists 17:34:29 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:49 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-wfqzbkrtjnawabvm] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:35:53 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:19 -!- jdz [~jdz@host229-111-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:38:22 thanx nikodemus_ and sykopomp 17:42:02 sacho [~sacho@46.10.4.19] has joined #lisp 17:44:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:44:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@DSL212-143-220-8.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:24 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:09 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:47:26 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 17:49:34 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.170] has joined #lisp 17:51:06 tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:51:06 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:10 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:54:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:54:57 oudeis [~oudeis@77.125.82.23] has joined #lisp 17:58:43 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:45 hi 18:05:24 Hello 18:09:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:11:09 antifuchs: is "extend" a kind of change-class ? 18:11:40 rvirding [~chatzilla@h139n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:15:11 wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:25 BrokenCog [~bc@cpe-24-59-7-86.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:35 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:22:31 enthymeme [~kraken@pool-173-51-221-118.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:38 -!- gadek [~konrad@ablv186.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: me is godny jak cholera] 18:24:58 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:25:52 add^_^ [~add^_^@h35n8c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:50 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h97n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:26:50 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 18:26:51 fe[nl]ix: kind-of, i believe it creates a new class that contains an additional mixin 18:27:20 so it's more like ensure-class + change-class 18:27:46 not 100% sure. my ruby is extremely rusty 18:28:14 nikodemus_: ah, but are the classes the same, or does each instance end up getting its own class? 18:28:16 some time ago I thought of doing that too, but conditions are not standard-objects so change-class won't work :( 18:28:26 pkhuong: no idea 18:28:55 hey, that's actually a pretty good motivation for getting clos into cold init 18:29:25 or at least implementing conditions so that we can update them into standard objects once clos is in place 18:29:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:31:37 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@77.125.82.23] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:34:42 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.148.53] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:34 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:39 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-106-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:37:40 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-106-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 18:41:37 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:35 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-143-89.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:45:48 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:04 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:48:02 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:48:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:51:38 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 18:54:10 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:54:33 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.81.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:56:16 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 18:56:30 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04E1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:19 francogrex [~user@109.130.85.142] has joined #lisp 18:59:19 seba-octo [~sebax@host28.200-80-164.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:59:31 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 19:00:11 does anyone know about a copy method which consider cyclic relations? i have made one, but i want one better :) 19:02:10 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819BD2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:32 HG` [~HG@p579F7533.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:54 superflit_ [~superflit@67-41-203-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:01 -!- superflit [~superflit@97-122-97-231.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:55 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:11:07 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:13:42 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-232-200.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:14:44 iantor [~chatzilla@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:10 -!- iantor [~chatzilla@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 19:18:44 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:49 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:07 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.85.142] has left #lisp 19:21:30 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:40 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.148.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:26:09 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-232-200.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0099.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:01 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 19:30:27 What's the cleanest way in lisp to get "~/foo/bar/" and turn it into "/home/billbrown/foo/bar/" . . . ? 19:30:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:31:03 <|3b|> if you don't need portability, #p"~/..." might work 19:31:11 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:13 I'd prefer portability 19:31:19 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 19:31:23 <|3b|> otherwise (merge-pathnames "foo/bar" (user-homedir-pathname)) or something like that 19:32:07 The problem is that cl-fad:list-directory is giving me back a list of files with full path 19:32:13 <|3b|> or "foo/bar/" rather 19:32:29 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 19:32:52 <|3b|> enough-namestring maybe? 19:33:19 That's the problem - I'm doing enough-namestring but with ~/... :( ) 19:35:19 <|3b|> so 'the problem is...' was in general, not with that specific suggestion? 19:35:27 iantor [~chatzilla@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:28 -!- iantor [~chatzilla@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 19:36:29 Here's the deal - on CCL I can give list-directory a ~/-based directory and it gives back ~/-based results. On SBCL/Linux it gives back full paths. Problem is, I only have the ~/-based root to send to enough-namestring, which only triggers on ~/-based paths. 19:38:32 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:39:12 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 francogrex [~user@109.130.85.142] has joined #lisp 19:41:03 *|3b|* wonders if that should be considered a bug in sbcl 19:42:40 -!- BrokenCog [~bc@cpe-24-59-7-86.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:42:43 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-232-200.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:43:41 -!- tmh [6397206e@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:43:47 adam_ [5316ffb4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.22.255.180] has joined #lisp 19:44:11 I take it back. What's happening is the "enough-namestring" in CCL can detect "~/" and subtract it correctly (for this situation) but the SBCL does not. 19:45:05 <|3b|> not exactly 19:45:31 Modius: please file that on launchpad, and i'll take a look tomorrow 19:45:33 <|3b|> sbcl keeps track that it was ~, while ccl expands it to /home/foo/... 19:45:44 nikodemus: I'm not sure if it's a bug or intentional. 19:45:55 tippenein [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:13 it's not strictly speaking a bug, but something i didn't actually think about when i added ~/ support 19:46:38 how do I set up inferior lisp in emacs? 19:46:53 at least it needs to be mentioned in the manual for ~/ 19:46:54 <|3b|> sbcl follows the invariant about (merge-pathnames (enough-namestring ...)) == (merge-pathnames (parse-namestring ...)) in the enough-namestring page 19:47:14 <|3b|> so if there is a bug, it applies to more than just enough-namestring 19:47:29 For now, can anyone think of a good workaround for what I'm trying to do? Is there any way to get the full path of ~/foo/bar ? 19:47:52 probe-file and truename, for example 19:47:57 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 *|3b|* would expect user-homedir-pathname to return full path 19:48:26 Andreas_Moe [~andreas@102.80-203-81.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:37 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.85.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:42 it does 19:48:58 <|3b|> though i suppose the :home pathname would be equally reasonable assuming that didn't depend on user-homedir-pathname 19:50:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:51:20 <|3b|> hmm, looks like the behavior in question may be required by clhs if sbcl has a special representation of ~ 19:52:39 yeah, i don't think enough-namestring can be dwim here 19:52:41 <|3b|> unless maybe parse-namestring detects "/home/foo/" and converts it to ~ 19:52:51 it doesn't 19:53:14 (let ((base (truename "~/tmp/"))) (mapcar (lambda (p) (enough-namestring p base)) (subseq (directory "~/tmp/*.lisp") 0 3))) => ("1.lisp" "2.lisp" "3.lisp") 19:53:20 *|3b|* meant that if it did, it might allow the desired behavior 19:53:28 *|3b|* isn't sure if it is allowed to though 19:53:57 ls 19:54:00 sorry 19:54:03 wrong window 19:54:15 the reason you want to use truename here is that if tmp/ was a symlink, (merge-pathnames "tmp/" (user-homedir-pathname)) isn't going to give the answer that enough-namestring needs 19:54:43 but note that ~/ is unportable to start with 19:54:48 <|3b|> and given that directory returns pathnames, parse-pathname has to return them directly, so looks like it is not allowed 19:55:17 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:21 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:21 (defun ~ (pathname) (merge-pathnames pathname (user-homedir-pathname))) is the portable version 19:56:57 gigamonkey [~user@c-68-35-77-11.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:58 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:56:59 yeah. in ccl #p"~/foo" means #.(merge-pathnames "foo" (user-homedir-pathname)), whereas (pathname "~/foo") happens at runtime 19:57:02 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:05 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:07 fsvo means 19:57:52 -!- adam_ [5316ffb4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.22.255.180] has left #lisp 19:58:45 whereas in sbcl both mean the same directory. in ccl is jack compiles a file with #p"~/foo" in it, and jill loads it, it will refer to "/home/jack/foo", whereas in sbcl it will refer to "/home/jill/foo" 19:59:54 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:56 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-151-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:01:08 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:01:34 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-135-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:09:45 stis [~stis@host-90-235-14-103.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:22 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-127-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:55 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:12:23 -!- naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-8-236.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:24 fe[nl]ix: yeah, Object#extend is like ensure-class & change-class. it's a really pretty neat trick 20:12:50 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-143-89.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 20:13:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:14:49 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:18 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 20:15:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:06 I'd been on lispworks for the longest time. Porting to CCL on Win64, then off onto Mac and Linux/SBCL, has been very educational. 20:17:37 I haven't heavily load tested this stuff (biggest concern, threads + sockets on server) but the abstraction libs have done a very good job. 20:17:49 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 mstevens [~mstevens@2001:ba8:1f1:f1ef::2] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@2001:ba8:1f1:f1ef::2] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:45 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:18:50 SBCL does not appear shy about delivering warnings. . . 20:21:38 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.20.111] has joined #lisp 20:22:19 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-164-222.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:44 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-164-222.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:24 poindont` [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:30 reb` [~user@nat/google/x-rybwohvaxgyhutnt] has joined #lisp 20:23:32 TheRealAndreas [~andreas@102.80-203-81.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:42 What was behind the SBCL/CMUCL using a conservative garbage collector? Does that unburden the design of the compiler? 20:24:10 -!- Andreas_Moe [~andreas@102.80-203-81.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:24:11 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-168-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:20 -!- y3llow_ is now known as y3llow 20:24:25 *|3b|* 's understanding is that lack of registers on x86 is one motivation 20:24:34 algorist__ [~quassel@host195-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:24:38 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111.240.168.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:50 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:25:22 cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@209.20.83.16] has joined #lisp 20:25:59 <|3b|> there aren't enough to just statically divide them into always-boxed and never-boxed, and without that, deciding which registers might be pointers at any random location in the code is difficult 20:26:01 rvncerr_ [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has joined #lisp 20:26:08 shachaf_ [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has joined #lisp 20:26:20 em_ [~em@user-0cev0hn.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:39 df_aldur_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:53 oconnore_ [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:57 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.74.68] has joined #lisp 20:27:01 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 20:27:10 <|3b|> if i remember right, sbcl has precise GC on platforms with lots of registers 20:28:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:28:53 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:14 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:29:19 -!- shachaf_ is now known as shachaf 20:29:43 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440956.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:29:43 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:43 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:44 -!- 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[~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:01 Modius: IIRC, SBCL's GC is only conservative wrt registers and the stack. 20:41:52 (on x86) 20:43:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-68-35-77-11.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:58 gigamonkey [~user@c-68-35-77-11.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-68-35-77-11.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:47 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0099.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75560d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:54 pnq [~nick@AC815FE2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:46 tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:17 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 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[Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:17 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-106-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:56:45 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.89.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:23 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:43 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 22:01:53 beach [~user@116.118.6.161] has joined #lisp 22:02:20 Good morning everyone! 22:02:28 beach: 'morning 22:02:53 p_l|backup: What's up? 22:03:29 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-191-40.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:42 |3b|: what counts as "lots"? does x86_64 count with sort-of 16? 22:05:18 <_3b> Phoodus: in this case, no, but i suspect that is as much due to starting from the x86 backend as # of registers 22:05:43 beach: learning Erlang, waiting for news from HackFwd regarding our project, and some other stuff 22:05:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:06:03 do other 16-reg arches have dedicated regs? I'm not familiar with much else besides ARM (16, but not supported), and MIPS (32) 22:06:23 *_3b* doesn't know if sbcl supports any other 16 reg arch 22:06:27 ah, k 22:06:31 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:40 Phoodus: most other architectures had 32 registers, sometimes more 22:08:21 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:09:23 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.201.226] has joined #lisp 22:10:21 davazp [~user@179.Red-79-159-17.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:40 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:54 Phoodus: we could have split the registers for x86-64, but decided not to. It helps a tiny bit with performance, and it made it much easier to reuse x86 logic. 22:14:48 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 22:15:01 Phoodus: 680x0 had 16 registers. It's a 32-bit processor from the 80's. 22:15:43 But probably it's useless to have much more registers, if you don't have a register indexing address mode... 22:16:46 pjb: didn't it have separate address registers? 22:17:51 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-232-200.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:06 Yes, and they behaved differently for a few instructions, but otherwise you could use them as data registers as well. 22:18:37 (Apart from A7 which was the stack pointer, unless you didn't didn't use the stack, or was on a 68020+. 22:18:40 ) 22:19:12 sparc has much more. Itanium is on another planet. 22:21:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-106-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 22:21:14 pkhuong: ... what would that make of hw implementation of MMIX? 22:21:55 also, SPARC reached somewhere around ~344 physical registers, of course with only the windowed part accessible 22:30:16 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h139n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:30:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-226.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:30:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-226.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:30:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:35:16 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:35:31 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.201.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:39 Well, at least SPARC has register windows, IIRC. 22:44:44 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.251.169] has joined #lisp 22:48:35 I have to admit that I am fascinated with MMIX design, which uses variable-sized register windows and uses registers for stack 22:49:00 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.251.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:25 I started a MIX emulator that checks that your computation is valid both in decimal and binary implementations. 22:49:41 (this part works nicely). 22:50:24 pjb: well, MIX and MMIX are vastly different 22:50:29 quite. 22:51:10 I need to sit down with a good verilog or vhdl book one day and learn enough to follow my idea of building MMIX chip :) 22:53:06 though getting a FPGA with enough space to support a higher-end config might cost me a lot ^^; 22:59:00 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-178-122.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:22 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.251.169] has joined #lisp 23:08:03 Give me some terminology so I can look this stuff up for myself. If you were doing an SBCL-linux-based server service, what would you do? Load it up, save-image-and-exit, then use SBCL + that image? Add it to some init file in linux, or is there some other mechanism where you can add a root app such that it can be adminned/restarted via commands like windows services? 23:08:31 buildapp to get the executable 23:08:50 make sure to set the *debugger-hook* to something sensible 23:09:41 then maybe use something like start-stop-daemon  we are actually using runit but that's a complete init replacement 23:10:00 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 23:10:03 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:14:34 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:20 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2E556.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:31 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7533.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:42 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:49 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:31 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:25 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 23:38:20 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.251.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:53 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.251.169] has joined #lisp 23:43:12 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:25 Modius: I use the /etc/init.d/ mechanism with screen. The screen part is described here: http://www.lispforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1192&sid=c523d0a9299834bc8687ca9e90daa508#p6228 23:45:05 I can paste a copy of the startup/shutdown script from /etc/init.d/ if you want, too. 23:45:21 Though that's more like a Unix System V service than a Windows one. 23:45:41 Modius: I use screen as well wiht init.d. However, I seem to recall a fairly recent post about something for handling this on planet.lisp.org. Am I mistaken? 23:46:05 Modius: ah, buildapp, indeed, that was the one 23:48:39 -!- davazp [~user@179.Red-79-159-17.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:51:53 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:40 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]