00:00:24 If you're doing something standard or that can be reduced to more standard computations (e.g. linear algebra), then it's probably faster to use something else. 00:01:28 Oh, I'm going to do distributed algebraic/symbolic computations. For example, lots of symbolic matrix products 00:01:32 similar with map-reduce frameworks. 00:02:41 I tend to be able to architect my programs with just a huge work queue of decently-large work units, and stateless workers. In that case, i don't really care about reliability (except for the single server), or about communication efficiency. 00:04:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 00:05:54 pkhuong: yeah that sounds about right for me 00:06:06 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-248-233-251.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:18 (* x 3) <-- (where x is of type INTEGER) produces a compiler warning that the first argument is not of type FIXNUM (indeed... ). Can I get rid of this? 00:07:28 oh, yeah, and the work:communication ratio is high, so print/read is fine. 00:07:40 glidesurfer: do you have a guess for the range of x? 00:08:07 I can be both fixnum and bignum so I declared it integer. 00:08:34 then there's little you can do. 00:10:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-62.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:32 glidesurfer: out of curiosity, what does (* x (coerce 3 'integer)) do? 00:11:11 I don't understand this warning: http://paste.lisp.org/+2MEG/2 00:11:58 Quadrescence: nothing. 00:12:10 glidesurfer: it's not a warning 00:12:15 it's an efficiency note 00:12:22 pkhuong: Why? 00:12:46 nikodemus`: oh yes, my fault 00:13:09 glidesurfer: it's not a warning. You can see notes as part of a dialogue between you (via declarations) and the compiler (which tells you what it could do with different/more precise information, via notes) 00:13:29 *madnificent* realy really likes those notes 00:14:17 (1+ [fixnum]) isn't necessarily a fixnum, but is definitely a signed machine word. In order to store that value in a hash table, the result has to be converted back to the generic representation. 00:14:20 pkhuong: But it's not always possible to satisfy the compiler? 00:14:33 If it fits in a fixnum, then it'll just be converted to a fixnum, otherwise, you'll get a bignum. 00:14:37 glidesurfer: nope. 00:15:08 if the compiler could deduce what notes you can and can't act on, it wouldn't need to emit them at all ;) 00:15:37 indeed 00:17:09 (* x (coerce 3 'integer)) seems to do something... at least one note disappears 00:17:41 pkhuong: And you said it does nothing!!! 00:20:00 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:23:22 glidesurfer: please paste the exact source where that changes something 00:23:43 Quadrescence: that coerce is just constant-folded away. 00:23:46 because it doesn't really, but i'd like to see why the note is lost 00:24:05 pkhuong: Yes, but what kind of constant does "3" get interpreted as? 00:24:31 Quadrescence: your question makes no sense 00:24:45 Quadrescence: 3. 00:24:51 nikodemus`: This is something I whined about with Haskell on my blog some time ago 00:25:09 Not an issue with the way types function in CL. 00:25:11 nikodemus`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122344#3 00:25:11 Haskell has Int and Integer. 3 is both of those, but at some point, it has to register as one of those types 00:25:43 glidesurfer: use (declaim (inline next-num)) instead of proclaim 00:26:13 that way it does what you expect it to do in the file compiler 00:27:04 glidesurfer: it's not the same function. 00:27:39 You're multiplying by 3 and 1. 00:27:40 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.202.161] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:28:10 oh 00:28:12 Ported my custom playaround Js-generation/webservery thing from Lispworks to CCL - taking code between implementations really forces you to take out the shoddy crud or lazy unportable calls. 00:28:14 sorry, yes 00:29:12 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:13 deon 00:29:18 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:30:11 You probably want to try truncate instead of /. And a fastpath for small x might be worth the code duplication. 00:30:29 agumonkey [agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:29 I'll undo all the hints I did up until now because they didn't change anything but made the code less readable. 00:35:06 doomrobo [~doomrobo@cpe-68-174-188-146.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:30 pkhuong: Why truncate? 00:35:55 truncating by two is a right shift. 00:36:07 Ok 00:36:15 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:16 Why isn't that done be /? 00:36:21 cl:truncate is Pascal div and mod. 00:36:21 *by 00:36:33 glidesurfer: it could result in a ratio 00:36:36 glidesurfer: (/ 3 2) --> 3/2 00:36:45 ok, thanks 00:36:58 clearly lisp does not optimize well!! 00:37:02 you know it can't because of the evenp test, but there's no such rule in the compiler currently (and I'm not convinced it'd be worth it) 00:37:05 glidesurfer: trying to get rid of notes without properly understanding what they refer to usually leads nowhere 00:37:23 (values (truncate x 2)) will ensure the secondary return value isn't computed. 00:37:59 about the most basic (and reasonable) thing is adding type declarations for function arguments 00:38:40 nikodemus`: It's not changing anything. 00:39:07 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:39:12 then you're out of luck on that front 00:40:08 pkhuong: he's inlining it, and the call-site will consume only one value, so it doesn't matter really. (it's the right thing to do, though -- but it won't change anything) 00:43:00 HerrBlum` [~user@stgt-4d03a931.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:19 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:44:44 pkhuong: Actually, I think someone writing a tutorial for how to write this optimization would be great 00:44:49 I would if I knew how 00:45:33 I removed everything except for inlining and the truncate thing... it looks like it improved performance a bit - 28 sec. uncompiled (CLISP) vs. 23 sec. uncompiled (CLISP) 00:45:36 I don't know that it's possible to write such a thing and have it be both useful and approachable. 00:45:57 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:58 glidesurfer: I don't know the performance enveloppe of clisp; can't help you. 00:47:03 pkhuong: in SBCL it's just not measurable, it takes only 3-4 sec. there anyway 00:47:05 -!- HerrBlume [~user@stgt-5d849242.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:17 glidesurfer: on clisp, the trick is to use CL functions instead of coding your own. 00:47:36 map, reduce, mapcar, etc will be much faster than dolist or do. 00:48:13 pkhuong: sounds like a good project (for me), i.e., to strengthen the amount of data collected when doing flow analysis, and optimizing off of this metadata 00:48:22 Really? I once read that map* is slower than "normal" iteration... 00:48:25 glidesurfer: and there's no point in measuring the performance of the interpreter. 00:48:35 Quadrescence: oh, the evenp/truncate thing. 00:48:39 Remember to use COMPILE-FILE before trying to optimize anything... 00:48:50 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-37-111-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:54 I wrote that at <22:56:15>... 00:49:02 four hours ago. 00:49:29 For evenp, you could look at the bitrange. But general (zerop (mod ...)) isn't supported by the current integer type propagation framework, and it'd probably be mostly a timesink 00:50:07 pjb: I did! Someone here used the uncompiled version in clisp so i was testing there. 00:51:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-231-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:17 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 00:53:35 Shamiq [~Adium@c-71-197-146-85.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:11 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 00:57:25 -!- Shamiq [~Adium@c-71-197-146-85.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:58:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-37-111-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:58:25 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.209] has joined #lisp 01:01:03 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:09:38 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.66.140] has joined #lisp 01:15:25 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-248-233-251.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:52 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:38 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-146-147.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:54 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:30 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:51 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:26:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-96-194.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:38:09 How do I pass a variable by reference to a function? 01:38:25 doomrobo: You can't. 01:38:26 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:39:24 doomrobo: Maybe if you tell us what you want to accomplish, we can tell you how it is usually done. 01:40:11 I'm reading Practical Common Lisp and it has a part about a database and cd's 01:40:26 I have to make a function that adds a cd to the database 01:40:37 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:40:49 the database is called *db* but how do I make it so that I may specify the db to push to when creating a cd? 01:41:00 or do I just need to use push? 01:42:17 doomrobo: That might not work, for instance if *db* is '(). Typically, you would return a new, modified, database and call it like (setf *db* (add-cd *db*)). 01:42:36 doomrobo: Or you can assume that the database is in *db* and refer to it without passing it as an argument. 01:43:03 that's what the book does 01:43:15 doomrobo: That might sound bad, but it isn't, because a caller can always do (let ((*db* ...)) (your-function-here) (use *db*)) 01:43:32 doomrobo: Which one? 01:43:56 (defun add-cd (cd) (push cd *db*)) 01:44:52 doomrobo: And that would be bad if *db* were just a global variable, but this is CL so it is a special variable that can be dynamically bound the way I just described. 01:45:40 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A66D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:43 this seems like scratching your left ear with your right pinky toe 01:46:03 doomrobo: what does? 01:46:20 doomrobo: passing variables by reference is an even worse idea. 01:46:33 how DARE you?! 01:46:52 Have you read the whole book? 01:46:59 not at all 01:47:12 I read some, then I gave up, now I'm restarting 01:47:20 I finished the database part 01:47:23 doomrobo: To whom did you say "how DARE you?" and why? 01:47:56 beach you, because that's what's natural to me (pass by reference) 01:48:14 I learned C/C++ as a first language 01:48:16 doomrobo: really? I don't know of any current language that does that. 01:48:22 C passes everything by value. 01:48:36 doomrobo: It is bad because you might have several places that refer to the same database, and then all the others would be inconsistent. 01:49:13 doomrobo: And if you know you have only one place, you might as well use a special the way the book suggests. 01:49:50 doomrobo: Passing by reference has a tendency to break down abstraction barriers in the worst possible way. But since you are an experienced programmer, you ought to know that. 01:50:03 I suppose I don't 01:50:18 And I am far from an experienced programmer 01:50:47 doomrobo: So when you said "how DARE you?" you were either overreacting or joking? 01:51:01 joking 01:51:07 Ah, OK. 01:51:37 But what you said about inconsistancy: that only applies if one were to create multiple pointers to the same object and pass all of them to different functions, which would be useless anyway 01:51:55 when you pass by reference it normally looks something like this: 01:52:34 doomrobo: Structure sharing is the way it is usually done. That is what makes most CL programs so much faster than most C++ programs (which must copy everything because of lack of GC). 01:52:40 Object myObject // Instantiates an Object called myObject 01:53:27 myfunction(&myObject) // passses a pointer of myObject to myfunction 01:53:30 beach: I never thought about list operations in that way 01:53:49 doomrobo: my eyes! my precious eyes! It hurts them! 01:54:08 madnificent: In terms of efficiency you mean? 01:54:10 that's pass by value. In Common Lisp, nearly everything is a reference, so you don't have to pass pointers. 01:54:14 beach: yes 01:55:04 if everything is by reference then why doesn't it work when I try? 01:55:14 beach: in the sense that it is quite different from the languages I worked with before (ie Java and Ruby), and yet it never crossed my mind 01:55:40 doomrobo: when you try what? 01:55:49 (defun add-cd (cd db) (push cd db)) 01:56:08 then when I pass a variable to that and print it, is says Nil 01:56:08 ah, but you're not modifying the list, you're changing the value the variable DB is bound to. 01:56:20 ? 01:56:52 *madnificent* doesn't know the cd database example by heart 01:56:59 Lists in common lisp are unfortunately fairly virtual, which makes for surprising behaviour at the beginning. 01:57:09 Keep on reading, things should become clearer. 01:57:22 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:57:55 ok, thank you for trying to help. I'm sure I will have an "AHA" moment at some point. I've only read about 3 chapters 01:58:02 I'm tweaking my emacs/slime setup and I seem to be doing something wrong iwth my slime-mode-hook. When I start slime, how do I get paredit mode to be on by default? 01:58:11 -!- doomrobo [~doomrobo@cpe-68-174-188-146.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:59:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:59:50 Fah: (add-hook 'slime-mode-hook (lambda () (paredit-mode 1))) ; ? untested 02:00:05 Yeah, I was trying something like that 02:00:56 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.39.85] has joined #lisp 02:00:57 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 02:01:37 -!- Yuzu-Zzz [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: I Quit] 02:04:01 Too bad doomrobo left. I would have mentionned immutable objects vs. mutable objects. 02:05:25 Fah: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2010-10/msg00210.html 02:06:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:04 megajosh2 [~megajosh2@unaffiliated/megajosh2] has joined #lisp 02:08:14 Fah: and then (add-hook 'slime-repl-mode-hook (lambda () (paredit-mode +1)) t) seems to do what you want. 02:08:27 thank you! 02:08:37 you're welcome 02:10:16 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:39 How do you send a break (i.e. from a long loop) to a slime-running lisp? 02:12:02 -!- rekahsoft [~collin@CPE002129ce62e2-CM0026f30ca5ed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:14:11 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:15:35 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 02:16:44 Modius: C-c C-c 02:18:26 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:18:58 is it possible to get more than two windows in aquamacs? i.e. 2 buffers you are writing into and the REPL buffer all side by side? 02:19:19 *more than two frames i mean within the same window 02:20:21 C-x 3 splits in regular emacs, I guess that'll work in aquamacs as well 02:20:41 and you can then split the frame once again... thus giving you 3 frames 02:20:52 oh so you can.. thanks 02:21:01 *madnificent* forgot how to give them enough space, but there was a balance command as well 02:21:42 C-x + thanks to goodle 02:22:25 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:30 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:22:44 mobydick: ah thanks, now I know that one as well :) 02:25:24 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 02:27:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:02 -!- Papa_Stefano [~chatzilla@72.128.59.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:03 is there a way to return the date in lisp? 02:28:10 -!- grimboy_ [~grimboy@bcm-128-232-247-43.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:53 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:30:05 C-X { and C-x } move the vertical bar right/left 02:30:33 and you can use the C-u trick to move it blocks of pixels at a time 02:30:38 bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:02 if you're in a terminal and cant just drag the frames 02:32:34 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 02:34:12 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:34:12 -!- bhyde_ is now known as bhyde 02:40:08 astertronistic [~astertron@be-sun38.ic.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:45:24 mobydick: you can DECODE-UNIVERSAL-TIME. 03:00:00 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.66.140] has quit [Quit: 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all! 03:44:37 Lo one! 03:44:41 stefan_ [~stefan@gssn-5f7556d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:45 -!- morphling_ [~stefan@gssn-5f75740a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:51:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:53:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 03:54:13 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:55:04 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 04:01:09 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:14 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:05:23 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has joined #lisp 04:05:31 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:27 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined 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timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25:15 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-22-246.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:34:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-16.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:37:11 benny [~benny@i577A13C6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:59 _6502_ [5e24f712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.247.18] has joined #lisp 07:48:56 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.164.225] has joined #lisp 07:49:02 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:49:11 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.164.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:01 lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:57:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:13 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:06:13 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.87.93] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-133-13.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:09:55 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:13:34 areil [~user@123.20.50.129] has joined #lisp 08:13:57 *sigh* 08:14:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:17 Lisp has made other languages seem ugly and annoying to me. 08:14:45 that's easy, just don't use other languages 08:14:55 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 08:15:32 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:16:04 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:17:02 <_6502_> jsoft: yeah... that's called the curse of lisp 08:20:35 Harag [~AndChat@41.28.90.220] has joined #lisp 08:22:30 _6502_: I'm sure that many lispers can use more than one programming language. 08:22:48 _6502_: they just prefer lisp 08:24:09 My next project is to "port" C to Lisp 08:25:07 Indeed, writing a good C to lisp translator would let us compile all those "nice" C libraries (and at least, make meanigfull benchmarks comparing C and Lisp compilers). 08:25:50 pjb: Well no, my idea was more to write C code in lisp with sexps 08:26:12 which can interact with a C compiler at lisp compile time and runtime 08:26:12 <_6502_> areil: either preferring lisp is bad, or one must be thinking almost all other people in the world are idiots... 08:27:00 <_6502_> areil: i really like lisp and I don't know why it doesn't work out in practice. But it doesn't... 08:27:09 The point is that there is enough C code, and not enough lisp code. 08:27:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:54 pjb: yes I agree 08:29:36 areil the idea is to make it work just like you have to with any other language/project 08:30:01 _6502_: that's just your thought. 08:31:04 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.58.208] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 08:32:03 <_6502_> areil: tell symbolics (RIP) 08:32:13 Where should I do with code that should only be evaluated once, such as starting a Hunchentoot listener or connecting to a database? Put it in a defvar? 08:32:19 s/where/what 08:32:49 (when *x* ...) might be useful. 08:33:36 I guess, but I don't know what condition to check in the above cases, should I find out? 08:34:04 Check to see if you've already done it or not. 08:34:32 By setting a toggle you mean? 08:34:41 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:04 can you define a class globally so that it is available to other packages? 08:35:17 (defvar *database*) (unless *database* (setf *database* (open-database))), etc. 08:35:51 mobydick: all the classes are available from everywhere. 08:35:52 moby: Packages can export symbols. Symbol can name classes. 08:36:17 Hmmm. 08:36:18 mobydick: http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 08:36:24 hunchentoot looks nice 08:36:28 gaidal: check application state rather than setting toggles 08:36:31 _6502_: I am in close contact with some ex-Symbolics employees. So if word needs to be passed along, then I can do so. ;) 08:38:17 pjb: thanks :) 08:38:32 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:39:08 <_6502_> quadrascence: tell them that areil thinks they should have rocked the world instead of dying despite the termporal and technological advantage 08:39:15 Zhivago: Assuming that the database/whatever doesn't need a variable like that to function, does what you wrote do anything except providing a toggle to check? 08:39:16 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 08:39:25 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-199-173.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:45 gaidal: You might want to look up toggle. 08:40:10 gaidal: It checks to see if something is nil and if so, attempts to set it to something else. 08:40:11 Dictionary.com or CLHS or Google? 08:40:24 -!- Harag [~AndChat@41.28.90.220] has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:40:25 Whichever one you can manage to understand. 08:40:45 OK. 08:43:38 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has left #lisp 08:44:10 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:45:54 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 08:47:05 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 08:47:07 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:49:25 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 08:53:02 symbol___ [~symbol___@c-98-246-145-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:14 what is the function name for "or" 08:53:18 total noob 08:53:26 <_6502_> hehehe 08:53:40 I suppose I should try or first 08:53:47 symbol___: some 08:54:07 yeah, wow. 08:54:12 that was fun 08:54:15 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 08:54:35 OR is not a function, but a macro. 08:54:45 <_6502_> symbol___: it's (or a b c) ... but it's not a function (arguments are evaluated only until one returns non-NIL) 08:55:01 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 08:55:19 _6502_: thanks makes sense 08:55:54 I can never remember SOME. 08:56:18 I always try "any" and similar 08:56:37 % doesnt seem to be the modulo function 08:56:39 any tips? 08:56:48 There's notany and notevery too. 08:56:53 <_6502_> rem (stands for "remainder") 08:57:02 mod for modulo. 08:57:11 <_6502_> isn't it rem? 08:57:14 symbol___: you should read a tutorial and clhs 08:57:27 symbol___: clhs is a catalog of CL functions. You can find them yourself. 08:57:30 _6502_: they are different 08:57:30 pjb: yeah, I was reading through one but became impatient 08:57:48 _6502_: principally in how negatives are handled 08:58:05 pjb: chls is news though, thanks for the reference 08:58:20 clhs 08:58:40 clhs --> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 08:58:49 <_6502_> quadrescence: hmmm... and neither support floats as divisor (like python does) 08:59:08 good :) 08:59:29 _6502_: why are you lying? 08:59:31 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-237-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:59:45 _6502_: clhs mod 09:00:29 pjb: By the way, my "lisp has too many parentheses" article off of one of your usenet toasts 09:00:43 my "..." was inspired by** 09:01:05 <_6502_> pjb: sorry... i was tricked by the example that were only using floats for numerator 09:02:35 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@123.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 09:02:50 <_6502_> mod is the good one .. my guess is that rem is here just because of backward compatibility with pre-ansi lisps 09:03:51 *_6502_* thinks "lisps" sounds bad 09:04:27 <_6502_> hmmm 09:04:28 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:04:31 lispen? 09:04:32 rednum [~bizon@62-121-72-31.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 09:06:43 so I just wrote my first lisp program, it was a solution to the first project euler question. would anyone be up for telling me how many lisp best practice I violated? 09:07:33 lisppaste: url 09:07:33 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 09:07:39 symbol___ pasted "euler_1" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122347 09:07:57 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:08:24 wislin [~user@61.188.239.92] has joined #lisp 09:08:25 setq doesn't define a variable. Use defvar or defparameter, or let or let*. 09:08:53 If you use defvar or defparameter, since you're defining then _special_ variables, name them with *stars* (defparameter *x* 0). 09:09:04 -!- megajosh2 [~megajosh2@unaffiliated/megajosh2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:17 (when are written on the same line. 09:09:29 hey i'm still a bit stuck.. if i define a class in one package how do i access it to define an instance of it in another package/file? 09:09:36 (setq x (+ x n)) <=> (incf x n) 09:10:06 do i need to both export and import the class-definition from both files? 09:10:10 pjb: it seems like putting the when parameters on the same line would lead to a long line 09:10:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:10:25 OR returns the first true result, or NIL. eql may return any object non NIL for true. So (eql T ...) will probably fail. 09:10:41 symbol___: we have 23" monitors nowadays. 09:10:59 -!- wislin [~user@61.188.239.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:30 pjb: thanks for the good points 09:11:39 symbol___: you may want to check out LOOP, APROPOS and DOCUMENTATION in the CLHS. 09:12:45 (eql 0 0.0) --> nil 09:12:51 Try (zerop ...) instead. 09:14:28 *_6502_* knows an ex-symbolcs employee that has solved all project euler problems... 09:16:06 megajosh2 [~megajosh2@96.231.196.19] has joined #lisp 09:16:06 -!- megajosh2 [~megajosh2@96.231.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 09:16:06 megajosh2 [~megajosh2@unaffiliated/megajosh2] has joined #lisp 09:17:34 <_6502_> symbol___: do you realize that there is no need for a loop at all? 09:17:51 _6502_: nope, please elaborate 09:18:16 <_6502_> symbol___: the sum of all numbers from 1 to n is (/ (* n (1+ n)) 2) 09:18:49 _6502_: how would I restrict it to numbers with 3 or 5 as a factor? 09:19:01 excercise : write a program to find all primes from 1 to 100 in a purely functional way 09:19:04 <_6502_> symbol___: the sum of all multiples of 3 below 999 is therefore 5 times the sum of all numbers from 1 to (floor (/ 999 n)) 09:19:18 <_6502_> sorry 5 09:19:45 <_6502_> just add that for 3 and 5 and subtract the value for 15 09:20:05 stoky [~bla@z003.wh-fst.uni-ulm.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:55 _6502_: interesting approach, thanks 09:22:46 leyyer_su [~user@222.210.200.239] has joined #lisp 09:22:51 longfin_ [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 09:24:05 Harag [~AndChat@41.28.90.220] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:27:27 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CD986.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:39 <_6502_> symbol___: when I solved it I also did it with a loop... i realized this could be done directly only when rereading the problem now 09:29:10 varjag [~eugene@162.163.9.46.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:30:40 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:31:14 Has anybody here used rucksack with millions of objects? 09:31:58 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CD986.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:14 I would like to know what strategy should be followed to do aggregates over large numbers of records 09:32:20 You have to learn to travel light. Don't bring a million objects on your trek. Limit yourself to ten! 09:33:11 Harag: isn't it the same as in-memory? Depending on your access patterns, lists, vectors, hash-table, networks? 09:33:20 Lol tell that to the client 09:34:59 What is the difference by compiling a file in emacs with C-c C-k, and by C-c:ing each line? Because require/load/in-package don't seem to work the same way. 09:35:02 Pjb I tried mapping accross btrees and indexed objects both result in calc times over 30 seconds 09:35:05 between* 09:35:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:24 Pjb I tried mapping accross btrees and indexed objects both result in calc times over 30 seconds 09:36:05 i dont know rucksack, but i've tried BKNR and rolling my own stuff with hundreds of megs of object in it. by own stuff used hash-tables.. lookups was very fast, but if you need to iterate over everything and filter, i wonder if sql/rdbms is not the better alternative. 09:36:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.5.184] has joined #lisp 09:36:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:44 If you need to iterate, a serial file is the best. 09:37:16 Postgresql does the same sum in 216ms 09:37:47 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:38:35 But the rdms is not flexible enough for what i want to do 09:38:47 ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-56-58.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:39:18 Katibe [~Katibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 09:39:45 And i dont have time to sit and reinvent the wheel so i am trying a lot of different nosql options 09:43:44 Harag: I haven't heard the start of your conversation, but it sounds like it could be good to consider SQLite? (bbl) 09:45:23 gaidal: C-c C-k is like a compile-file followed by a load. if the forms have only load-time effects but the effects are needed at compile-time (e.g. REQUIRE), you have to add some EVAL-WHENs. 09:46:05 I need a db that does not require setting up columns and crap so i can change structure on the fly but my problem is that i have to do a lot of aggregates over large data sets 09:46:34 urandom__ [~user@p548A5C13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:00 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:49 Harag: do the objects have a lot of different properties, or are you mostly summing along some shared property? if so, store the values in a vector too? 09:48:09 Xach: I see, do you know where I can find examples of those? 09:50:04 Harag: another option perhaps, pre-calculate the stuff you need so the sum/whatever is always reflected from the current dataset? 09:50:20 Nvm I'll go look it up, thanks. :) 09:51:35 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:51:55 Harag: I've heard good things about CouchDB? 09:53:26 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-237-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:53:53 Harag: (see Sykopomp's GitHub page https://github.com/sykopomp and his blog) 09:54:03 Couchdb does not have a native sum just like mongodb and the mapreduce for both over a million keys is over 30 seconds 09:54:59 Hypno yes maybe if I precalc some of the data it will make for a smaller map 09:55:17 Hmm... Well, good luck then. :) 09:55:54 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 09:56:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:07 Problem is I have a transaction table/collection that contains millions of rows that need to be somed 09:56:11 Sigh 09:56:29 Well thanx for all the advice 09:57:04 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:57:20 -!- Harag [~AndChat@41.28.90.220] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:59:19 gaidal: not sure. i don't think it's usually a good idea to use REQUIRE in source code to load stuff. 09:59:47 gaidal: i more often use it to make sure functions i use to implement macros are available at the right time. 10:01:09 -!- Yuzu- is now known as Yuzu-AFK 10:01:22 Xach: Do you have public code I could look at? :) 10:01:45 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-102-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:01:53 gaidal: of this technique? or in general? 10:02:08 *Xach* has http://github.com/xach and http://xach.com/lisp/ and starts grepping 10:03:15 https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/blob/master/dist.lisp#L296 10:03:57 Well, this technique and similar. Trying to think of a way to put into words what it is I don't get. :P 10:05:26 If I evaluate an in-package line, it doesn't change the package in slime. That's one thing that had me confused. I think. 10:06:05 Story time: My boss' secretary's daughter ran into my office at work, and sat in my lap. She is 6 years old. Apparently one of my coworkers told her that I am a fun person or something. So she sat in my lap and I showed her a lisp repl. I typed in (+ 5 1) and explained what it meant, and she pressed enter, and '6' comes up. After another example, she said "I don't like this game...", so I did M-x tetris. The end. 10:06:06 gaidal: C-c ~ should do it. 10:06:31 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@be-sun38.ic.ucsc.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:49 gaidal: I think slime has special handling for that so generally only repl activity changes the repl package. 10:06:51 Also I'm staring at two lines: (defvar *foo*) (unless *foo* ...) where it keeps saying that *foo* is unbound no matter how many times I C-c the first line, not sure if it's also related. 10:07:19 Xach: Looks like it. 10:07:27 gaidal: (defvar *foo*) creates an unbound variable named *FOO* 10:07:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:37 Xach: Thanks for the link, can't find any :require in there so I'm still not sure where to put those. 10:09:45 gaidal: I don't use REQUIRE ever. I write system files. Well, actually, a program writes system files for me, mostly. 10:10:07 quickproject 10:10:16 gaidal: http://xach.livejournal.com/289652.html has an example 10:12:30 Xach: Just checked if you can access packages without requiring them, doesn't work for me, so how do you use libraries then? 10:14:52 gaidal: Via defining and loading systems. 10:14:58 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:20 Xach: don't you even use require in the repl? 10:16:23 *Goes to check if that is covered in Practical CL* 10:17:50 nikodemus`: never. 10:18:06 gaidal: the link i just shared shows an example and links to more. 10:18:31 nikodemus`: asdf:load-system or ql:quickload exclusively. 10:18:43 Xach: Great, thanks. 10:19:13 *stassats* uses :asd at the repl, which is (defun :asd (system) (asdf:load-system system)) 10:19:26 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has joined #lisp 10:20:50 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.164.225] has joined #lisp 10:22:00 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082960E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:52 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CBD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:36 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:13 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:37:19 stassats: make a 'defun' joke 10:40:22 Quadrescence: defun isn't predisposed to jokes 10:46:55 -!- Yuzu-AFK is now known as Yuzu- 10:51:33 Hm, is the quicklisp server down? 10:51:33 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 10:52:09 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:53:08 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:56 gaidal: nope 10:54:02 Not for me. 10:54:36 Can't access the website or use quicklisp atm. 10:56:18 ^micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:16 gaidal: I had that sort of thing happen to me when my ISP's backbone had issues. 10:58:59 I can access it through VPN, perhaps it was suddenly blacklisted in China. :P 10:59:06 Like everything else that's useful. 11:00:27 Hope it's just a temporary issue, then. 11:03:48 China must have a fairly stagnant it industry 11:07:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:14 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:07:36 -!- megajosh2 [~megajosh2@unaffiliated/megajosh2] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:09:08 jsoft: I don't know, I read that they had hundreds of finalists in some international hacker contest compared to 17 from the US. 11:09:27 I have yet to see a well-made Chinese website though. 11:10:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:45 Humans always find a way to do what they want to do when they want to do it badly enough. :) 11:11:55 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-176-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:13:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:13:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:14:03 How do I avoid "out of bounds" for arrays? Hash tables just return NIL if no entry exists? Do I have to check boundaries manually? 11:14:19 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 11:14:24 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:14:35 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has joined #lisp 11:15:02 glidesurfer: one way would be to have a handler for the condition 11:15:55 Ah, great. 11:16:58 checking with clisp, it signals simple-type-error 11:17:27 glidesurfer: You could use the LENGTH function, but could you elaborate on how this "out of bounds" condition comes about. 11:17:35 *? 11:19:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:19:53 (aref *seqlen-table-2* y) <-- and (> y (length *seqlen-table-2*)) ==> t 11:20:37 clhs array-in-bounds-p 11:20:43 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:43 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:23:49 m__h__ [~m@kwlan1.uoks.uj.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 11:23:51 hello 11:24:12 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.66.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:48 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 11:28:41 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:31:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:40:53 wages [~ed@cpe-024-211-088-243.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:48:33 <_6502_> string/= is not variadic? 11:49:35 <_6502_> oh... ok, it has additional keyword arguments... may be that's the reason 11:49:43 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:15 <_6502_> (not really a good reason, tho) 11:50:49 it's a really good reason 11:51:29 <_6502_> hmm 11:51:36 <_6502_> not in general but it's ok for string/= 11:53:14 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 11:59:07 pnq [~nick@ACA223C6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:11 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:00:39 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:10 Zhivago: By "(defvar *database*) (unless *database* (setf *database* (open-database))), etc.", did you by any chance mean to have a nil after *database* in defvar? I have been wondering for a while why it wouldn't work, with nil it does. 12:06:02 I've made an executable with buildapp and freeglut says it can't find the fonts, any ideas? 12:06:04 I guess it's too obvious that it should be there. Now after finding out, it is. :P 12:11:12 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:12:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:18:44 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:44 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:56 BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-146-147.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:30:25 silenius [~silenus@p4FC221DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:49 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:57 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has joined #lisp 12:42:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:50:18 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-239-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:50:30 bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:47 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-239-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:54:00 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:01 -!- bhyde_ is now known as bhyde 12:54:31 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 12:55:02 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 12:58:06 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:52 add^_ [~add^_^@h97n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:25 -!- agumonkey [~agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:30 agumonkey [agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:52 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h97n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:01:15 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.39.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:18 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:05:30 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:05 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-33-254.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 13:06:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-33-254.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 13:06:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:06:09 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:07:50 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-234-58.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:07:54 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-205-118.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:11 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 13:21:21 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:21:22 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:03 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.209] has joined #lisp 13:23:30 Hello m__h__ 13:23:42 [and Good evening everyone!] 13:24:30 good morning, beach. 13:25:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:25:46 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA223C6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:47 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:32:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 13:38:04 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44:40 -!- Yuzu- is now known as Yuzuchan 13:47:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 13:47:12 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:48:52 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 13:52:38 morning beach! 13:53:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:55:32 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.127] has joined #lisp 13:56:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:11 splittist: How are things? 14:01:14 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-35.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:01:37 wislin [~user@61.188.239.92] has joined #lisp 14:02:47 Hi! 14:04:10 What is "not-compil-time" mode, what's compile-time-too mode? 14:04:56 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:05:28 Can anyone tell me about those? 14:06:11 foocraft [~ewanas@LINUX02.qatar.cmu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:07:18 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:01 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has left #lisp 14:09:23 Everyone busy now? 14:12:03 wislin: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm 14:13:23 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@LINUX02.qatar.cmu.edu] has quit [Quit: Fuddddddd ruckers!!!!] 14:13:24 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.79.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:01 beach: too busy to think, at the moment. Yourself? 14:18:21 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-35.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 xinming [~hyy@122.238.74.68] has joined #lisp 14:20:14 stassats: No any word about those two mode in 03_bca.htm page. 14:24:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:34 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [] 14:26:16 <_6502_> What is a y/n question that could discriminate "Abe Lincoln" from "A turtle" ? 14:26:27 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:26:28 *_6502_* is wroking on animals.lisp :-) 14:27:52 <_6502_> what do you guys think of (defmacro setter (x) (let ((v (gensym))) `(lambda (,v) (setf ,x ,v))) ? 14:27:56 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:06 _6502_: "is it a mammal ?" 14:28:52 -!- m__h__ [~m@kwlan1.uoks.uj.edu.pl] has left #lisp 14:29:03 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 14:29:14 <_6502_> the knowledge db is a tree where a leaf is a string and a question node is a list of question yes-child right-child 14:29:55 <_6502_> i wanted to pass a pointer for the learning part, and resorted to the setter macro... is it ugly? 14:31:32 <_6502_> in a previous version i was using a list with a single element for the leaf, and mutating the cons for the learning part, but seemed worse... 14:33:22 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 14:34:39 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:26 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:36:52 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 14:37:24 _6502_ pasted "guess" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122355 14:44:00 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:44:05 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C5D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:53 hi 14:47:18 Hello 14:47:56 when we define our own SETF by (defun (setf foo) ... ) 14:48:21 å 14:48:30 i know what's happening, 14:48:42 but just wanna know what we call it in CL ? 14:49:18 for example we had a concept like method combination in generics and ... . 14:49:54 or simply i can say i'm extending SETF ? 14:49:56 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:55 Night-hacks: That is actually a function 14:51:02 try #'(setf foo) 14:51:43 so i got the syntax a little strange. 14:52:25 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-234-58.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:01 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:53:08 so is it lambda-list ? 14:53:49 like arguments specialzing in Generics ? 14:55:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:48 -!- wages [~ed@cpe-024-211-088-243.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:57:18 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.210.200.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:42 -!- stoky [~bla@z003.wh-fst.uni-ulm.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:35 Night-hacks: 'generalized variable' 15:01:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:01:17 <_6502_> i think the name is "places" 15:02:30 _6502_: there is such a word in PCL. 15:03:11 but not sure if it's just author's word, or .. 15:03:55 pnq [~nick@AC8284C8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:15 <_6502_> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_p.htm#place 15:05:19 _6502_: yeah thanks alot, other meaning of what splittist, said. 15:05:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 15:07:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:17 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08:40 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This 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16:05:16 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:07:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:07:38 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:08:07 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:08:10 Is there any documentation anywhere for hu.dwim.rdbms? I'm desperately trying to figure out how to pass bind parameters, but even the source doesn't help me much :-( 16:08:35 loke: undocumented by design 16:08:47 Xach: yeah, that's pretty obvious :-) 16:10:33 lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has left #lisp 16:12:26 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 16:14:33 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:19:13 pnq [~nick@AC824295.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:58 sacho [~sacho@90.154.221.153] has joined #lisp 16:23:18 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:25:12 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:27:00 Probably less a lisp question but it's where I'm starting: I'm starting a webserver listening on the mac in CCL, for the first time. It's code that works on Win32 on the PC. USocket is complaining "Operation not permitted"/Access denied. The mac's firewall is off. Is there something else an app needs to do to get permission to listen on OsX? 16:27:11 mephisto_ [~mephisto@bas1-woodbridge48-1176129107.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:28:40 Modius: what port are you listening on? 16:28:42 it's preventing you from binding port 80 16:28:49 because you aren't root. 16:28:53 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [] 16:28:57 port 81 actually 16:29:14 Yeah. Only root can bind to port numbers <1024 16:29:15 if it's less than port 1024, it will prevent the binding for any non root user. 16:29:24 natch 16:29:50 bind it to a higher port 16:29:53 Any advice for running Emacs as root on the mac? 16:30:00 Or I could bind to a higher port haha 16:30:10 I mean, running GUI emacs as root 16:30:10 Modius: yeah. that 16:30:20 don't do it. 16:30:21 :) 16:30:24 I'd like to know all the options. . . 16:30:46 I have no idea how you'd even try using something like aquamacs. 16:30:56 if you're using gnu emacs under X, it'd be straight forward. 16:31:06 but as I said, don't do it 16:32:29 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 16:35:57 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:42:33 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:10 Any reason to bind to port 80 at all? 16:43:36 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@bas1-woodbridge48-1176129107.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:57 forward port 80 to a high one 16:44:10 or just use a higher port for now 16:50:22 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:42 question re sockets & SBCL on Mac - doing some load testing, using Drakma to make a bunch of calls to a local web server, and then calculating average time / request, requests per second, and other metrics---any reason I am seeing EINTR errors on socket connect calls between 3-15% of the time? 16:54:05 those are errors on the client-side of my load test 16:54:58 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.255.212] has joined #lisp 16:55:10 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-178-201-97.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:55:49 hargettp: are you running multiple threads? if so, that's probably GC triggered by another thread 16:56:40 nikodemus_: ah yes I am...that makes sense. Wrapping my socket connect calls in without-interrupts should do the trick? 16:56:51 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.203.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:59 varun [~varun@223.189.221.125] has joined #lisp 16:58:32 -!- varun [~varun@223.189.221.125] has left #lisp 17:00:10 no 17:00:19 gc is unaffected by without-interrupts 17:00:41 Hunchentoot/DB/Ajax app lispworks/win32 -> running on CCL on a Mac - educational. 17:01:07 nikodemus_: then tolerating some percentage of EINTR errors should probably be expected in a multi-threaded test like this? 17:01:17 you /can/ use without-gcing, but take care. any locks you take under without-gcing must /always/ be taken while under without-gcing -- and if the connection is slow, you cause a lot of other threads to wait 17:02:04 nikodemus_: that sounds extremely risky...like I'd be changing lock ordering unexpectedly on some piece of code... 17:02:10 (setf (bytes-consed-between-gcs) (* 1024 1024 124)) 17:02:16 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:02:29 then you have less gcs, and hence less stoppage 17:02:54 hmm, that could be nice 17:03:18 hargettp: not risky as such, only needing to take care. if you know that FOO never takes any locks then (without-gcing (foo)) is safe 17:03:58 if FOO takes any locks, then those locks need to be always taken while inside the dynamic contour of WITHOUT-GCING or you risk a GC deadlock 17:04:36 (cause by T1 waiting for a lock while in WITHOUT-GCING, and T2 being stopped for GC while holding that lock) 17:04:58 nikodemus_: I think for what I am doing I will try the bytes-consed-between-gcs trick...not all code run on the client side of the load test is mine, so not sure of its locking behavior 17:05:07 (and GC waiting for T1 to exit the WITHOUT-GCING section to continue) 17:05:42 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:06 thank you :) 17:06:14 you could also try async connects 17:06:19 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:06:20 saves the trouble of restarting 17:07:11 xristos: ty, but a bit beyond the scope of what I'm doing....really hoping to spend time tuning the server side of this...not my client-side load generation code :) 17:07:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:53 hargettp: ec2 instances are nice for load generation :) 17:11:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:48 nikodemus_: yes, they are...that's where my production stuff runs...expecting I have enough low-hanging fruit that load testing against localhost loopback will be productive :) 17:12:05 fair enough 17:12:30 :) 17:12:32 the first time i used ec2 was when i realized that my laptop just didn't cut it for load generation 17:13:25 nikodemus_: I'm sure I'll get there...and I have heard anecdotally that Mac OS X sucks at thread context-switching relative to Linux...hence, there will be a limit to what I can do this way 17:13:36 but that's anecdotal, and possibly out of date :) 17:13:37 yeah 17:14:04 nikodemus_: but can I emphasize how much low-hanging fruit I think I have LOL 17:14:08 more relevantly, assuming you're on sbcl, sbcl threads on OS X are a far cry from the linux impl 17:14:49 i believe it 17:17:53 lpolzer [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-205-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:03 i keep saying this, but i think getting them into a fairly decent shipshape would not be more than a week or two of work 17:18:22 what does it entail? 17:18:36 I mean, what's "mssing" relative to Linux? 17:21:09 1. making sure we don't use malloc and free inside signal handlers 2. switching the runtime to use realtime semaphores instead of pthread mutexes, 3. replacing lutexes with user-space locks (fair spinlocks with a backoff perform /better/ than os x pthread impl, actually), 4. figuring out what to do about condition variables if we can't sanely use the pthread stuff on OS X 17:21:20 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-140.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:21:43 hmmm not small stuff...i.e., not just a "few hours work" 17:22:09 1, 2, and 3 i know exactly how to do, and i have the fair spinlocks already written -- 4. is the only open question 17:22:54 there's also 5. which is "understand what the hell the mach stuff is supposed to do and make sure it does it right", but that's further down the line 17:23:00 lol 17:23:24 re #4: if you have efficient user-space locks, can't you implement #4? Or did i just forget some basic computer science? :) 17:23:47 ryankask [~ryan_lang@5ad7a8ce.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-105-118.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:24:03 didn't the mach api stuff include "figure how to avoid leaks in Mach IPC"? ;-) 17:24:04 yes, i can. i'm just not sure how to make them not suck. i'm sure there's a decent way, but i haven't thought about it 17:24:26 but no, not few hours -- but i'd be surprised if it took more than two full weeks 17:24:35 -!- areil [~user@123.20.50.129] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:24:50 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 17:27:16 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:00 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:43 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:30 -!- splittist 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I'm a llama again. http://www.shlomifish.org/] 19:21:09 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 19:22:11 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.164.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:29 -!- Vowyer [~sbenitezb@71-208-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 19:25:02 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:31:10 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:32:15 rgrau [~user@67.Red-83-58-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:45 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 19:42:05 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.9.199] has joined #lisp 19:44:46 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:45:48 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:50:24 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:51:43 silenius [~silenus@p4FC221DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 19:56:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:03:03 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:07:22 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:07:25 -!- konr [~user@187.106.20.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12:53 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:14:07 hi nikodemus_ 20:14:13 hi 20:15:02 sounds like a good plan! 20:17:45 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 20:18:20 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7EB26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:40 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:20:35 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:31 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C5D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:21:46 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C5D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:21:48 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:54 So to goof around and get comfortable with backquote I was trying to write this macro : (defmacro explain-unquoted (X) `(format t "In the current context, ~a is ~a if left alone, and ~a if unquoted" 'X ,X ??X??)) 20:23:06 lanthan [~ze@p54B7EB26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:27 And I thought i'd come on and ask for help, but it just occured to me why that'll never work. So mission accomplished, sortof. 20:23:41 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:28:11 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-56-58.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:29:23 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:33:19 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:35:22 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:36:19 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:01 (defmacro explain-unquoted (X) `(format t "In the current context, ~a is ~a if left alone, and ~a if unquoted" 'X ',X ,X)) 20:37:03 perhaps? 20:37:25 (explain-unquoted (+ 1 2)) --> In the current context, X is (+ 1 2) if left alone, and 3 if unquoted 20:38:53 derekv: actually, indeed the question is meaningless, because in both cases, it's (+ 1 2), or the value bound to X. 20:39:54 are there still any implementations in which conditions are not classes? 20:39:54 The difference is that with ',x I prevent that value to be evaluated at runtime, while with ,x I don't prevent it, so the value of x is itself evaluated at run-time. 20:40:06 mathrick: old implementations? 20:40:14 "still" 20:40:25 ZetaLisp? (The might have been flavor, instead of CLOS instances? I'm just guessing). 20:41:20 I was asking about extant, currently used implementations 20:41:33 In the five implementations I have here (class-of (find-class 'error)) is a standard-class. 20:41:39 I know there were some, otherwise CLHS wouldn't bother explaining how conditions and CLOS are separate 20:41:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:41:55 mathrick: there are still people running geneva. 20:42:02 *genera 20:42:05 pjb: really? 20:42:07 what for? 20:42:10 Yes. 20:42:13 For fun. 20:42:30 ASDF claims to have some genera support 20:42:45 Well, if it worked perfectly, instead of being a hack (I mean, as a virtual machine on linux 64-bit), I'd probably use it more. 20:42:59 Its meaningless also because I can't stick it into a backquoted expression (it won't expand at all) unless I unquote it (the whole thing expands as if it wasn't backquoted) so obviously the whole idea of selectivly unquoting is meaningless 20:43:00 pjb: ah, so nothing that actually needs to work :) 20:43:02 pjb: that doesn't mean that conditions are standard classes, only that their class is. 20:43:22 They should do like for VMS they made an OpenVMS, make an OpenGenera. 20:43:31 pkhuong: æh? 20:43:42 You're being folled by MOPery. 20:43:47 *fooled as well. 20:43:57 pjb: it's already called opengenera 20:44:08 Ah, then (find-class 'error) says standard-class for most, but condition-class for CMUCL and SBCL. 20:44:18 as opposed to openarena 20:44:33 mathrick: How can it be open, if we don't have right to do anything with it? 20:44:46 it's called opengenera 20:44:56 You can also try (class-of (find-class 'structure-object)) to compare and contrast. 20:44:59 I'm simply stating a fact 20:45:35 pjb: same as OSF had "open" in its name probably 20:45:43 pkhuong: right. I went one meta too far. CMUCL and SBCL have a condition-class. 20:45:53 old-style proprietary software loves calling itself open 20:46:09 pjb: but they're still CLOS classes 20:46:30 Yes. 20:46:41 mathrick: same as structures. 20:47:16 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 Seems I've lost the license to Allegro. 20:47:34 So tested: ccl, clisp, cmucl, ecl and sbcl. 20:47:34 howso? 20:47:43 there's a time out IIRC. 20:47:54 that sounds like a huge PITA 20:48:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:48:34 It's the Free Express Edition. 20:48:55 End of semmester, you graduate, get a job, and buy the professionnal edition. 20:49:11 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:50:20 pjb: I don't have anything against buying software, but the licensing terms of allegro are icky 20:53:18 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.221.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:55:26 mathrick pasted "ASDF source-registry trouble" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122358 20:55:33 ASDF help needed 20:55:57 any idea what that means? I had this same asdf.conf working fine on a windows SBCL 20:56:12 could it be that 1.0.40 is too old? 20:57:25 more likely asdf is too old. 20:57:40 hmm, I have whatever quicklisp brought with it 20:57:53 should I run update-something-or-other? 20:58:14 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:58:30 I might not have updated this quicklisp in a few months (2-3 I guess) 20:59:22 I'd have to make my own backquote comma system in order to make something like the above possible 20:59:40 the above = 'explain unquoted' 21:00:03 CL-USER> (ql:update-client) 21:00:04 Updating from version 2010121400 to version 2011051901. 21:00:07 I guess it was fairly old 21:01:06 Xach: QL is wonderful 21:01:25 Xach: but that reminds me, when will you add the support for rolling our own dists / registries? 21:04:22 What about ql functions to get meta information? (eg. today, I'd have liked to fetch the license of each system). 21:04:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:20 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:05:32 oh, that'd be nice too 21:07:58 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 xan_ [~xan@185.Red-79-158-172.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:21 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 21:24:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:14 pnq [~nick@ACA3797D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:02 Andreas_Moe [~andreas@102.80-203-81.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:30 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:29:57 rz` [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 21:30:25 is emacs a good choice to use as lisp interpreter on windows? 21:30:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:36 konr [~user@187.106.20.119] has joined #lisp 21:30:42 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:32:05 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:55 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as DontBlamePTM 21:34:06 rz`: as a general purpose lisp, imo no 21:34:44 Is it a horrible idea to start with Common Lisp? 21:34:50 not at all 21:34:56 Ok then :3 21:35:15 nikodemus_: so, which one would you use on windows? 21:35:19 (emacs+slime is a great development environment for common lisp 21:35:28 Andreas_Moe: there are even books who will teach you programming with Common Lisp. 21:35:45 Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/dst/www/LispBook/index.html http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 21:35:48 rz`: get a common lisp of your choice, and use slime+emacs as the ide 21:35:58 nikodemus_: nice, thanks! =) 21:36:00 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:03 Andreas_Moe: have a look at http://cliki.net/ which contains all the pointers. 21:36:05 ccl, clisp, and sbcl are free alternatives 21:36:14 a few of them. 21:36:19 lispworks and allegro have free trial editions 21:36:19 mhm, thanks pjb! 21:36:34 isn't allegro a C game library? 21:37:14 i'm partial to sbcl -- but if you're on windows make sure to get this: http://www.siftsoft.com/inprogress/forknews.html instead of the version from the mainline 21:37:48 rz`: not in this context. 21:37:48 same name, entirely different thing 21:37:51 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-33-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:37:59 Here, it's Franz, Inc. current Common Lisp implementation. 21:38:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-33-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:31 I'll get clisp, it's the most well know for me 21:38:53 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #lisp 21:39:57 thanks for the suggestions! bye!! 21:39:59 rz`: it's not the most performant one 21:40:03 -!- rz` [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has left #lisp 21:40:14 rz` [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 21:40:15 oh well 21:40:29 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.9.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:29 sorry, I left before you talked 21:40:36 heh 21:40:44 haha sorry, guy 21:40:53 so, I don't really know which to use 21:40:59 rz`: most people here use sbcl or ccl. so clisp specific advice can be harder to come by 21:41:14 I'm just a beginner, so I don't need any special features 21:41:17 That's not true, I'm always here to give clisp advice. 21:41:24 true 21:41:31 And It's also my prefered implmentation, then ccl then ecl then sbcl. 21:41:36 and are sbcl and ccl as well documented as clisp? 21:41:53 rz`: the sources are available what more do you want? 21:41:59 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ 21:42:11 nice, this is enough 21:42:21 now I'm in a dilema 21:42:23 rz`: do you know the book "practical common lisp"? 21:42:24 On the other hand, access to the sources of ccl is easier than those of sbcl. M-. on a cl function usually brings you directly into ccl sources, it's harder with sbcl. 21:42:25 I think I'll flip a coin 21:42:41 nikodemus_: no, I don't 21:42:43 rz`: in the beginning it really doesn't matter 21:42:51 pick one and stick with it a while 21:42:59 later you can make a more informed choise 21:43:02 ok, I'll get common lisp and that book you told me 21:43:13 I also have onlisp book 21:43:17 do you know which one is it? 21:43:23 I think you do 21:43:25 it's free to read online -- and _very_ good (pcl, that is) 21:43:54 "on lisp"| is ok. it's not quite ansi compatible, though, and graham's code is a bit ... idiosyncratic 21:44:39 practical common lisp is great because it teaches you great style as well. and it's very well written and researched 21:45:05 and covers the entire language, unlike pg who just ignores massive parts 21:45:05 And Gentle is great because it teaches you programming and lisp when you didn't know either from the start. 21:45:15 (PCL assumes you already know programming). 21:45:20 true 21:45:27 rz`, http://lispcabinet.sourceforge.net/ 21:45:38 i haven't read gentle, but i haven't head anyone say anything bad about it 21:45:43 fast way to start CL in windows 21:46:05 rz`: out of curiosity, what led you to lisp? 21:46:06 milanj: it seems a modified emacs 21:46:25 nikodemus_: I started with functional programming with scheme because I got interested into it 21:46:29 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:34 I learnt the basics of scheme 21:46:37 and now I want go on lisp 21:46:43 rz`: oh, you will also want this: http://www.quicklisp.org/ 21:46:52 well, i a sense that it install ccl,sbcl,clisp,abcl 21:46:56 use quicklisp to install any libraries you need 21:47:00 I'll get a bunch of books and links 21:47:07 you dont need to do it manually 21:47:17 (i'm assuming it works on windows, but i don't actually know for sure) 21:47:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@162.163.9.46.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:28 it does work 21:47:33 I usually work on linux 21:47:37 but now I'm on windows 21:47:47 and I want to have some lisp ide on both systems 21:47:48 rz`: sicp or htdp or something else? 21:48:30 I haven't read any of them 21:48:31 milanj: http://sourceforge.net/projects/clisp/files/clisp/2.49/ 21:48:50 I just followed a few tutorials 21:49:07 milanj: that must be the fastest and shortest way to CL on MS-Windows. 21:49:13 well, you have been so helpful 21:49:16 thanks really 21:49:19 yes, but no slime 21:49:32 this is emacs+lisp implementation + slime 21:49:36 I'll take note of all you said me and make my decision of book and implementation 21:49:59 milanj: however, my advice would be to install cygwin http://cygwin.com/setup.exe and with it, install X, emacs and clisp, plus some other packages, so you get a usable GNU-like environment. 21:50:15 nah, just install the windows binary for emacs 21:50:23 slime works in that just fine 21:50:53 I have emacs already installed 21:50:57 I'm on erc 21:51:04 so, I'll just have to start now 21:51:31 well, thank you all for the help really 21:51:37 now I'm leaving, bye! 21:51:44 -!- rz` [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has left #lisp 21:56:52 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:11 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:58:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:03 -!- stefan_ [~stefan@gssn-5f7556d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:10 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:08 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:04:28 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:55 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:47 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:07:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:26 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:09:48 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:12:41 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:02 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:46 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:18:07 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:20:48 Good morning everyone! 22:21:11 hej beach :) 22:21:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:02 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:23:17 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #lisp 22:25:08 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 22:26:32 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.26.44] has joined #lisp 22:27:09 Hi all! 22:27:43 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:57 Hello Bahman. 22:28:03 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 22:28:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 22:28:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:28:06 Hi there beach! 22:28:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@185.Red-79-158-172.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:28:44 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:59 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC221DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:15 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:48 rgrau` [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:27 -!- rgrau [~user@67.Red-83-58-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:35:47 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.26.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:24 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:31 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:39:31 -!- wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:28 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.26.44] has joined #lisp 22:42:01 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:39 -!- rgrau` [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:33 http://www.hack4fun.org/h4f/sites/default/files/bindump/lena.bmp 22:47:34 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:50:02 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@188-23-234-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:51:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:10 Quadrescence: Why do you suggest this URL to #lisp? 23:00:06 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:00:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:09 is somebody doing jpeg encoding? 23:02:11 beach: Well I thought it was an appropriate URL for everyone to see. 23:02:54 Quadrescence: I can't imagine why you would think that. 23:05:46 It's a bmp, a MS-Windows file format! How could you think it was appropriate to post such an URL here? 23:06:15 PNG forever! 23:06:35 *Fade* pastes gif's into pjb's repl 23:06:47 Fade: no, paste jpegs 23:08:13 -!- Andreas_Moe [~andreas@102.80-203-81.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:45 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.132.218] has joined #lisp 23:23:19 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:39 k3yb1n [~abfen@77.41.107.190.dyn.supernet.com.bo] has joined #lisp 23:28:20 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-133-13.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:28:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-138.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:39 -!- sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:30:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:30:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:31:20 hummm 23:31:46 are there any known problems with BT:INTERRUPT-THREAD on SBCL/Linux 1.0.40? 23:32:05 I see it doing exactly nothing here 23:32:17 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3797D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:32:35 Perhaps the thread is not running? (either ones). 23:32:36 iirc it's a thin wrapper on top of sbcl's interrupt thread 23:33:10 so it should be ok for those few things that interrupt-thread is good for 23:33:16 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.5.184] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:33:42 (debugging and trying to provoke re-entrancy errors quickly) 23:35:05 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:07 nikodemus_: heh, actually I was using it to short-circuit some computations, and it actually works fine on Win32/1.0.45 23:35:58 and yes, SB-THREAD:INTERRUPT-THREAD does the same amount of nothing 23:36:23 possibly the other thread is in a without-interrupts section 23:37:07 humm 23:37:16 nikodemus_: would it arrive later then? 23:37:27 I tested it on pure SBCL, it works 23:37:31 in SBCL, not so much 23:37:34 *mathrick* lisppastes 23:38:12 it's arrived, but it won't be handled until the thread exits without-interrupts (on the unwind from there, to be precise) 23:38:58 or if you have deadlock with a thread in an uninterruptble state, then ... pain 23:39:14 gdb can tell you 23:39:33 mathrick pasted "INTERRUP-THREAD + SLIME" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122360 23:40:00 nikodemus_: so I get some warning in pure SBCL, but it does what I expect it to 23:40:27 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.26.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:50 mathrick: is this win32? 23:41:01 ah, no, Linux 23:41:26 what's swank:*communication-style*? 23:42:01 :SPAWN 23:42:22 worksforme in slime 23:42:39 nikodemus_: (lisp-implementation-version)? 23:42:45 linux, SLIME 2011-05-09, bleeding edge sbcl 23:42:50 OK 23:43:00 I'll just assume it's due to version discrepancies 23:43:18 *mathrick* sets a compile of 1.0.45 and goes to grab a coffee 23:43:44 nikodemus_: btw, who's in charge of sbcl.org? 23:43:45 1.048.32 is latest 23:43:52 everyone and no-one 23:44:00 nikodemus_: yeah, but I'd rather keep linux and win32 versions I'm using in sync 23:44:08 or if you mean who manages the domain, i'm not sure 23:44:15 the latter 23:44:26 mathrick: are you using the threaded windows fork? 23:44:30 yes 23:44:37 if so, keeping in synch is a pretty lie :) 23:44:43 :) 23:44:59 I want somebody to bug to redirect it to www.sbcl.org and/or set up an apache vhost to make it work 23:45:06 though i grant you the point of not accidentally using a new extension or something 23:45:17 because "sbcl.org is down" is just sad 23:45:44 iirc kmr 23:45:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041067.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:45:49 Is there a portable way to make calls to compile not push wannings onto the stream? 23:45:52 warning 23:46:10 nikodemus_: heh, I misread it as kmp at first, and was very confused 23:46:29 (handler-bind ((warning #'muffle-warning)) (compile-stuff)) 23:47:09 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-239-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:55 nikodemus_: since I'm not familiar with that nick, I take it kmr doesn't IRC? If so, could you push the message from me? It's not a huge deal, but having to type www.sbcl.org is annoying and bad practice 23:48:12 kevin rosenberg 23:48:20 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48:44 put a note on launchpad -- it's 2am here so i'll forget otherwise 23:48:50 or send me an email 23:48:59 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-56-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:49:21 nikodemus_: oh, launchpad is fine, should I just open a new bug? 23:49:35 sure 23:50:03 great, that's something that doesn't require me to sign up to any new places, so I can just do it