00:00:11 heh 00:00:51 *p_l|backup* wonders if there's any kind of "common widget set" for one of the continuation-based webframeworks 00:02:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:27 Good morning everyone! 00:05:39 beach`: 'morning 00:07:14 -!- beach` is now known as beach 00:08:10 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-170.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:16 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:41 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:41 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-170.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:37 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:14:27 Quadrescence [~quad@69.164.197.143] has joined #lisp 00:14:32 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@69.164.197.143] has quit [Changing host] 00:14:32 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:17:15 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:18:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:47 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:24:02 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DBED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:25:52 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:25:52 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.219.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:55 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-123-99.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:22 xiaohao [da0359f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.3.89.248] has joined #lisp 00:31:37 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:35:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:20 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:37:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:21 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:39 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 00:49:30 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 00:50:33 A program that runs on scheme, emacs-lisp and Common-Lisp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 00:51:08 does it run on newLisp? 00:51:15 It's not a target. 00:51:25 I'd consider LeLisp, EuLisp, ISLisp... 00:51:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5A43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:04 pjb: Cute! 00:53:18 beach: it's not really funny: now I'd have to implement CL in scheme. 00:54:03 That would be a nice project. 00:54:06 This is a problem, when writing an implementation, we may want to use a subset of the language. 00:54:07 ... sort of. 00:55:21 For example, this week I wanted to use sicl format in emacs-cl, but it doesn't work because emacs-cl doesn't implement method qualifiers. (small problem it could easily be removed from sicl format, or really, the should be added to emacs-cl), but still. 00:55:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:57 Yes, I see. 00:56:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:03:54 By the way, now I think that method qualifiers are a kind of monads in CLOS :-) 01:04:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-axryuzgtidtkywnd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:04:32 we can define methods in the progn monad, or the and monad, etc. 01:05:18 Interesting. 01:05:42 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:55 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:06:31 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-imilyyqdboivgplb] has joined #lisp 01:06:33 Defining the right generic functions and methods, we could even wrap easily normal lisp functions in those monads... 01:12:52 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:06 kruhft pasted "short-lambda - shorthand lambda forms a'la Arc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122297 01:13:48 kruhft: thanks, but no thanks 01:14:34 no problem, i probably won't use it either but i just thought i would try writing it 01:14:45 -!- jeremid is now known as aimelee 01:14:54 just having fun with read macros 01:15:04 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 01:15:13 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:17 rme [~rme@50.43.186.250] has joined #lisp 01:16:29 kruhft: if you want to have fun with read macros, try rather to parse lambda expressions from lambda calculus: x.(+ 1 x) x.y.(+ x y) 3 4 --> 8 01:17:18 'x.(+ 1 x) x.y.(+ x y) 3 4 --> ((lambda (x) (1+ x)) ((lambda (x y) (+ x y)) 3 4)) 01:17:20 (+ 1 x)? that doesn't look like lambda calculus to me! 01:17:33 Yes, some mixing is ok. 01:17:48 might look into it 01:18:04 i was thinking of doing python style hash tables next actually 01:18:24 #{ "a" : 1 "b" : 2 } or something like that 01:18:24 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-75-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:18:25 Actually, for application you may want to add parentheses: (x.(+ 1 x) (x.y.(+ x y) 3 4)) 01:18:40 it would be easier to distinguish a lambda form from an application. 01:19:37 kruhft: well, don't stop at hash-table: parse python, so you can write (defun f (x) #{ \n space space space space x+1 \n }) 01:19:40 etc. 01:19:48 hardy har har 01:19:51 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 01:20:11 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:39 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:45 No, serriously. Check http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/245342429c61800/f7966bf3df9f716c?hl=en&q=group:comp.lang.lisp+objcl+author:pascal+author:bourguignon#f7966bf3df9f716c 01:21:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:29 that's interesting 01:22:37 pjb pasted "objcl example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122298 01:22:41 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:23:19 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 01:23:24 how can i trace what like (dolist (x (car *db*)) (when (eq (car x) "entry")))? 01:23:38 (step (dolist (x (car *db*)) (when (eq (car x) "entry")))) 01:23:43 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:23:44 ah 01:23:45 thanks 01:23:47 (dolist (x (car *db*)) (print x) (when (eq (car x) "entry"))) 01:23:59 akimbo: read clhs: 01:24:00 clhs dolist 01:24:13 im looking at clhs now 01:24:23 Where is the result-form ? 01:25:04 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:10 <_3b> EQ probably doesn't do what you want on strings (not that it matters when you ignore the results though) 01:25:15 Notice that a block named nil is mentionned. So you can use (return ...), which is equivalent to (return-from nil ...). 01:25:28 ah ok 01:25:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-imilyyqdboivgplb] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:26:00 akimbo: also, you may consider find: (find "entry" *db* :key (function car) :test (function string=)) ; or string-equal if case insensitive is wanted. 01:26:16 ok thanks ill read up on find 01:26:22 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-75-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 01:27:46 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-cwmbkodbopakdqwk] has joined #lisp 01:28:29 pjb: why (function car) rather than #'car? personal preference? 01:28:56 idiosyncrasy 01:29:14 Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:09 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has left #lisp 01:30:33 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:04 Yes, I prefer the roundness of parentheses to the sharpness of #. 01:33:22 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:33:28 is there a way to do like a pretty print of lists? 01:33:29 Moreover, (function sin) may work in scheme (define function (lambda (x) x)), but #'x doesn't. 01:33:35 see my previous paste ;-) 01:33:46 akimbo: (pprint list) 01:33:47 in the slime inspector i can see an overview of the list 01:33:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:58 ah 01:34:03 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:39 next you'll be finding common grounds with C and writing so that it's easy to compile with a C compiler 01:34:49 which is nonsense, of course 01:35:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:20 I'll feel better when emacs lisp and scheme will have reader macros. 01:35:30 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-123-99.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:04 i feel better writing code which is considered customary for the language it's written in 01:37:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42:34 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-cwmbkodbopakdqwk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:45:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-108-6.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:45:08 Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:59 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-152-149.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:45 Hello lispers 01:50:08 hello mon_key 01:50:17 Hi Beach! 01:51:59 Am wondering if anyone can clue me in on what SBCL compiler means when it says "note: can't open-code test of unknown type " 01:52:19 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:41 Is it telling me i need to declaim/proclaim the class or is it saying something else? 01:52:57 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:44 it is saying that either you need to put your defclass into eval-when or load it from another file 01:54:57 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:24 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:56:56 stassats`: Thanks! 01:57:44 stassats`: would (proclaim (declaration )) help at all? 01:57:59 not at all 01:57:59 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:14 it even doesn't make any sense 01:58:28 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:58:50 (unless you were talking about some arbitrary declaration, and not cl:declaration) 01:58:52 (proclaim (type ))? 01:59:25 no, this doesn't make any more sense either 01:59:36 OK :( 02:00:30 -!- naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-8-236.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:48 Thanks again for your help. 02:01:55 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-152-149.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-30-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:02:54 another option is to turn set SPEED declaration to 1, to turn off optimization notes 02:05:03 -!- aimelee is now known as jeremid 02:05:04 I want the notes... 02:05:12 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:07:06 turn them on only when you need them 02:09:01 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:10:07 :) I wasn't even seeing this particular one until I did: (ql:quikcload 'a-sys :verbose t :explain t) 02:11:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:15:33 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-80-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:58 how do i break out of inspect slime? 02:16:59 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 02:17:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2AA73.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:18:15 lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has joined #lisp 02:18:48 at this time ,is night in usa and europe right ? 02:19:01 10pm EST 02:19:04 3 AM in portugal 02:19:10 so why ,so less people talking 02:19:14 lisp_forth: something like that, yes. 02:19:42 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:19:53 I sell woolrich and belstaff ,at the same time ,just as a commonlisp and forth ,c++ 02:20:02 haha 02:20:29 last winter ,i sell 1000 pieces woolrich and belstaff jackets to europe and usa 02:20:43 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 02:21:12 I am the fans of real madrid 02:21:39 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 02:22:33 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:22:52 Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:12 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:27:20 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 02:27:57 0427 central european summer time 02:28:12 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-108-6.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:28:26 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:51 www.timeanddate.com :P 02:29:08 It's lunchtime on the Eastern Australian seaboard. 02:29:26 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:30:07 oh great ,I have a classmate in austrulia ,reading ph.d 02:33:55 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:15 I know Austrian people are evry lazy , 02:34:26 do many people learn commonlisp? 02:35:17 I don't know about Austria; I've only visited there, and that was just for a few days. But Vienna's as beautiful as many people claim. 02:35:38 yes ,I think so 02:35:41 CL's not that common here, though. Many programmers don't even know of it. 02:35:51 so do china 02:36:06 what do you do jfleming 02:36:06 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 02:36:12 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 02:36:16 CL is rare everywhere, with exception of people who hated hard courses in university back when they were compulsory 02:36:36 those think badly of Lisp :) 02:36:42 yes ,so I am going to usa MIT ,reading AI 02:36:57 Too late, the MIT switched to python. 02:37:05 lol 02:37:06 lisp_forth: got your acceptance letter already? They arrived in March, didn't they? 02:37:13 lisp_forth: but you can still read the book and watch the videos. 02:37:20 pjb: they supposedly are thinking about reverting that decision 02:37:31 That'd be fine. 02:37:36 no ,I havenot wrote letter to MIT yet 02:37:51 Did they use Scheme beyond 6.001 (an intro course)? 02:38:18 maybe scheme is polpular more 02:38:34 Bike: imagine you're second year student, you've been learning python during your first year, and you have a project to write. What language will you choose? Python, or start again learning a new one? Remember, you're the customer. 02:38:36 why donot you go to sleep ,it is too late now 02:38:38 lisp_forth: then don't assume... MIT has ~100 places for foreign students, ~1500? for home students (USA residents) 02:38:55 Bike: some courses used it 02:39:12 lisp_forth: the competition is hard 02:39:15 ehm ,I use c++ c , lisp and forth too 02:39:16 *p_l|backup* knows from autopsy 02:39:23 pjb: I was just thinking that if lisp_forth already knows how to program, s/he won't take the intro course, so going to MIT for Lisp would be pointless. 02:39:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:42 Going at any school to learn a programming language is pointless. 02:39:48 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:51 Well, that too :P 02:39:57 yes ,I just want to live in canada 02:40:09 I donot want to live in china anymore 02:41:03 it is too late in night right ,why do so many foreign people sitll work 02:41:28 Programmers are night birds. 02:41:39 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:43 haha ,all the same 02:42:49 http://atlantapost.com/2011/05/26/for-these-students-it-pays-not-to-go-to-college/ 02:43:11 I am evry glad to talk with so many foreingn friends , last week I met two usa company boss ,they invest a motor factory in my hometown 02:45:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:27 Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:44 lisp_forth: Why do you think it is night? 02:48:46 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 02:49:48 I do business with foreign friends last year ,so when i get up ,they still sleep ,so I know time is not the same as me you whole 02:49:54 Zhivago: because he asked! 02:50:02 Zhivago: probably because we were just discussing the subject. 02:50:23 lisp_forth: You know many things that are not true. 02:50:36 are you chinese zhivago? 02:50:47 lisp: No. 02:50:51 New-York (USA): 22:43:15 EDT Thu May 26 2011 02:50:51 London (Angleterre): 03:43:15 BST Fri May 27 2011 02:50:51 Madrid (Espagne): 04:43:15 CEST Fri May 27 2011 02:50:51 Paris (France): 04:43:15 CEST Fri May 27 2011 02:50:54 night everywhere. 02:50:55 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 02:51:57 is anybody learning forth at the same time 02:52:05 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 02:52:07 pjb: it's mid-afternoon here :P 02:52:15 Martian! 02:52:17 Well, early afternoon. 02:52:23 I've been called worse :P 02:52:24 I think forth is more better than cL 02:52:34 I'm a sysadmin, it comes with the territory. 02:52:40 I think that cheese is more better than dogs. 02:52:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:06 Maybe, but cheese-racing just isn't as exciting to watch. 02:53:43 I am the fan of real madrid ,campnion league do you watch 02:54:04 but grilled dog might not be so good 02:54:21 phad: A little on the greasy side. 02:54:55 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:54:55 maybe you can come to china ,to taste chinese food ,completely different from other countries foods 02:54:59 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.219.35] has joined #lisp 02:55:16 lisp_forth: lisp is better than forth, because it's trivial to implement forth in lisp, but it's much harder to implement lisp in forth. See for example: https://github.com/VincentToups/emacs-utils/blob/master/with-stack.md 02:55:31 lisp_forth: it's the same when comparing lisp with any other programming languages ;-) 02:55:45 lisp: Actually, when I visited China and ate the food there, it reminded me of home. 02:55:52 lisp: Almost exactly the same taste. 02:56:21 oh ,which country are you from zhivago 02:56:32 yes ,at this time ,I love lisp more than forth 02:56:47 I am an embedded system softenginer 02:56:47 One with chinese restaurants and chinese people to eat in them. 02:57:09 By the way, commas precede spaces in English, so it's "oh, which country are you from". 02:57:09 yeah , 02:57:42 haha , my English actually not so good 02:57:55 which country are you in ? right 02:58:37 That's general typography. All language using a roman alphabet, put the comma next to the previous word, and a space after the comma. 02:59:02 In lisp though you can put commas in front of things haha 02:59:03 Similarly, in Hebrew, the comma is put next to the previous word, ie. on the right of the space, since Hebrew is written left to right. 02:59:13 `(blah ,foo) 02:59:32 I was meaning natural languages, not programming languages. 02:59:34 forth put things behind 02:59:49 two stacks 03:00:25 I am learning openfirmware with forth now 03:00:51 Except for french, where they put commas in the middle of words. 03:01:32   03:02:51 Zhivago: again, you're talking nonsence. 03:02:55 s/c/s/ 03:03:13 10,3, for example. 03:03:29 pjb: You have the monopoly on babbling idiotically -- I would never intrude on it. 03:03:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:56 Idiot: I'm French! I know how it's written. 03:04:18 pjb: Then why say otherwise? 03:04:30 10,3 is not a word, it's a number. 03:05:02 I go to have lunch ,what do you do with lisp ,my teacher use cl do httped and usocket 03:05:04 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has joined #lisp 03:05:26 smtp 03:05:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:59 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has joined #lisp 03:06:09 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 03:06:14 pjb: Written numbers are words, too. 03:06:37 written numbers are words? 03:06:40 what do you mean 03:06:48 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.186.250] has left #lisp 03:06:59 lisp_forth: Zhivago is always saying silly things. Don't listen to him. 03:07:21 lisp: How many words are in the following sentence? "The bar was 3.2cm long." 03:07:24 haha ,yesterday ,I first come into this group 03:07:49 ok 03:08:04 lisp_forth: still that would be much easier to read you if you wrote: "Haha, yesterday, I first come into this group.". 03:08:49 i go to have lunch now ,talk late ,this weekend ,I can see barcelona and man 03:10:22 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:12:11 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:13:25 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:18:03 -!- jeremid [~jeremid@ool-18bb5096.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:18:14 -!- ec|detached is now known as ec|irssi 03:23:44 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:23:45 -!- ec|irssi is now known as ec|detached 03:24:33 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-30-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:26 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 03:27:17 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 03:28:51 so i'm playing with sbcl sockets 03:29:03 and i noticed that there is no timeout value on socket-receive 03:29:35 think there's a way to wrap the receive call so that a timer would interrupt it? 03:30:33 and when i tried to make a socket stream, i can't seem to get it to work at all with what i'm doing; but that does specify a timeout, so maybe i'll have to try a bit harder 03:33:01 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has joined #lisp 03:33:12 Make it non-blocking. 03:33:51 may be you need have a rest ,bro 03:34:09 I just had lunch. 03:34:53 lunch? as me ,oh ,which country ? 03:35:03 you are the same time as me zhivago ? 03:35:10 *Bacteria* also had lunch 03:35:22 kruhft: socket stuff may support deadlines. 03:35:36 pkhuong: what do you mean deadlines? 03:36:03 Zhivago: that might work 03:36:27 basically the server i get the data from stalls sometimes and it's supposed to be realtime data, so if my socket times out on a read i do a reconnect 03:36:56 so i guess if i use non-blocking and get a bunch of 0 length reads that might have the same effect... 03:37:03 do you use linux server? 03:37:22 i don't know what the server is on the other side 03:37:33 but i use linux on my server, yes 03:37:44 which add you use 03:37:51 add? 03:38:15 you mean distro? 03:38:56 add_family 03:39:17 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:30 sorry, don't know what you mean 03:39:58 sockadd 03:40:20 INET AX25 IPX APPLETALK X25 03:40:43 oh, inet 03:41:03 TCP OR UDP 03:41:07 tcp 03:41:25 can you enum your sock functions 03:41:54 again, i don't know what you mean 03:42:00 bind accept listern send recive 03:42:31 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:42:40 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/General-Sockets.html#General-Sockets 03:43:28 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:44:12 you close the uwf of linux ,t 03:46:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 03:46:21 or selinux 03:46:56 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has joined #lisp 03:48:46 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:03 lisp_forth: many of the lisp abstractions don't work at that sort of layer, and only support inet 03:49:26 are those other protocols still being used much in the embedded space anymore? 03:50:27 wait ,I find my teacher's uscoket for you , 03:50:50 I mean in industry. You said you work as an embedded engineer? 03:51:45 http://common-lisp.net/projects/usocket/ 03:51:57 yes ,I am a embedded engineer 03:52:07 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:52:12 I use c and c++ forth do embedded 03:52:24 are you still using non-inet layers? 03:52:38 (ipx, etc) 03:52:55 it depends on the project 03:53:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:56:20 it is too late ,I think everybody needs a rest 03:57:06 lisp_forth: Why are you using the strange typographical convention of putting the space before the comma? 03:57:34 lisp_forth: people in here are from many different timezones 03:58:54 beach my habbit 03:59:49 lisp_forth: Do you have similar personal habits when you write programs? 04:00:08 no 04:00:11 haha 04:00:21 my English isnot very good , 04:00:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:02:03 how to speak ,is very important? I just used to make everybody understands me 04:02:32 you are mostly understandable 04:02:41 your commas are just in consistently weird places 04:02:46 yes 04:02:49 "When I use a comma, it comes before the space." 04:02:51 lisp_forth: you'd probably do better to leave out all your commas than to put them after spaces--it'd be less distracting. 04:04:03 maybe i should learn more about using English 04:04:21 lisp_forth: What is the language you use most? 04:04:28 chinese 04:05:26 kruhft ,is my teacher's usocket good for you ? 04:06:17 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:08:53 pnq [~nick@ACA40536.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:39 http://common-lisp.net/projects/usocket/api-docs.shtml 04:15:57 do anybody know hadoop 04:18:48 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 04:19:20 I also learn data mining 04:21:04 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 04:26:44 lisp_forth: Could you please put that the following form in your ~/.emacs: (global-set-key (kbd ",") (lambda () (interactive) (while (progn (backward-char 1) (looking-at " "))) (forward-char 1) (insert ",") (when (looking-at " ") (forward-char 1)))) 04:27:04 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:22 what is wrong 04:27:46 This makes the commas to be inserted in the right place. 04:28:48 heh 04:29:50 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-71-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:30:16 hehe 04:30:28 iori [~iori@gateway.plus21.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:28 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.71.216] has joined #lisp 04:30:38 you are so funny 04:30:38 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 04:30:46 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:06 *beach* now expects "But I am not using Emacs as an IRC client". 04:31:45 me too ,I am in the web IRC 04:32:02 lisp_forth: this is not funny. This is very serious. Human should not bend to computers, but computers should adapt to humans. You cannot type comma space, so be it. But they instruct your program to put the comma before the spaces. 04:32:12 lisp_forth: you should be in emacs, and use erc. 04:32:34 The web is not programmable. Emacs is programmable. 04:33:20 And if you insist to go thru the web, go via emacs w3m. 04:34:07 my emacs is in vmvare the ubuntu 04:34:26 emacs runs on MacOSX and MS-Windows too. 04:34:45 http://emacsformacosx.com/ 04:34:58 I havenot load it 04:35:21 give me a link for windows 04:35:25 http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/emacs-23.3-bin-i386.zip 04:36:08 ok thank you 04:37:03 pjb which country are you in 04:37:24 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 04:37:37 Currently, I'm located in Spain, on Earth, Solar system, Milky Way, local amas, universe. 04:37:59 s/amas/cluster/ 04:38:19 do you love barcelona or real madrid 04:38:41 I don't like soccer. 04:39:12 pjb, I just realized who you are. 04:39:40 You're lucky, I'm not sure I know who I am. 04:40:46 pjb ,do you know belstaff ,i sell many belstaff jackets to spain 04:41:13 No idea what it is. 04:41:38 so bad 04:42:44 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 04:43:16 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 04:43:36 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:52 Deathaholic [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 04:43:56 Anyone in this channel: If you're unemployed or job seeking, in the US (and able to relocate in the US), and can program in CL very well, PM me for a possible job opportunity 04:44:48 oh ,I want to do cl in usa 04:44:52 what about the salary 04:45:06 ... Now I wish I was looking! 04:45:07 but I am in china ,I donot know how to go to usa 04:45:15 A plane or a boat. 04:45:58 I hope comany can buy a ticket for me 04:46:05 lisp_forth: that's a classic problem solved in AI. IIRC, PAIP presents such an algorithm. 04:46:26 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:35 lisp: Walk to Russia via North Korea, and then paddle across the Bering Strait. 04:48:05 lisp: If you meet anyone, tell them that you are Japanese. 04:48:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aipwsgogiomuohwy] has joined #lisp 04:48:18 lisp_forth: you must be a US citizen 04:48:31 Quad: For security reasons? 04:48:33 fuck ,I hate japanese 04:48:40 Zhivago: correct 04:48:45 Or either wait global warming, and traverse Bering walking (assuming all the water has evaporaed), or wait for the coming glaciation, and traverse Bering walking on the ice. 04:48:57 lisp: Then you must not be Taiwanese. 04:49:26 Quadrescence: is it related to the metaphor research projects financed by the NSA/CIA? 04:49:38 I directly read ph.d in MIT ,thatis ok 04:49:44 pjb: no 04:50:22 funny 04:51:58 Quadrescence: In http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=711 it's "due to its look", not "due to it's look". 04:52:21 Oh thanks 04:54:35 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:55:10 pjb: If you're casually browsing around that site, the 'about' section is pretty out of date 04:55:19 ok. 04:56:29 I've not changed the picture in my X-Face for 14 years. 04:56:43 -!- Pan3D [~Pan3D@63.208.160.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:56:51 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 04:57:27 -!- quasisane_ [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:57:39 Pan3D [~Pan3D@63.208.160.190] has joined #lisp 05:02:32 lisp_forth: I know what Belstaff jackets are, but I still prefer leather for my biking armour. 05:03:12 OK 05:03:52 pjb: may I see your X-Face 05:04:08 It's in all usenet posts. 05:04:36 +my 05:04:49 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:05:07 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:05:56 pjb: Oh, when I read your usenet posts, it's usually through a text-only protocol 05:06:24 pjb pasted "x-face" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122302 05:07:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:07:46 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:09:21 pjb: classy 05:09:24 Quadrescence: ftp://ftp.informatimago.com//users/pjb/images/face3.png 05:10:20 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-236-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:24 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:22 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 05:16:47 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:19:28 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.221.44.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:20:25 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:21:23 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-vefxcdpxhjmlwvyu] has joined #lisp 05:21:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-vefxcdpxhjmlwvyu] has quit [Changing host] 05:21:23 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:22:37 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:24:47 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-80-222.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:49 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:05 does somebody use hadoop 05:36:58 slyrus [~slyrus@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:59 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA40536.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:38:59 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-217.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:09 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:46:05 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.219.35] has quit [Quit: if you're going....to san. fran. cisco!!!] 05:46:24 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:47:14 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:49:57 good dreams 05:52:17 You can dream about Japanese people. 05:54:17 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.126.128.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 05:56:36 -!- lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:00:05 lisp_forth [b47e8815@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.126.136.21] has joined #lisp 06:00:51 I am not at the side of Japan ,so I have a request that donot talk things about Japan upon me 06:01:19 I'll make you a deal. 06:01:41 If you can write ", " instead of " ," then I'll stop talking about Japanese things at you. 06:02:29 lisp_forth: have you installed emacs? 06:02:41 lisp_forth: have you tried my comma correction? 06:02:46 yes ,but I am trying to install erc 06:03:19 lisp_forth: information about erc: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ERC 06:03:51 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:04:15 Well, it seems erc is already in the emacs distribution. In that case you only have to put (require 'erc) in your ~/.emacs, and type M-x erc-select RET to connect. 06:04:44 let me have a try 06:04:58 uman [~brennan_v@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #lisp 06:05:05 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:53 lisp_forth: Japanese people wear hats. 06:07:29 I donot care their things 06:07:31 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:55 Japanese are hypocrisy 06:07:57 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has joined #lisp 06:08:06 lisp: Fix your commas. 06:08:20 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-200-52.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has joined #lisp 06:09:03 bavarious [~bavarious@pdpc/supporter/student/bavarious] has joined #lisp 06:09:35 wait 06:10:12 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-144-217.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:05 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:14:19 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:14:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:15:14 unsucces 06:15:21 failed 06:17:01 leyyer_su [~user@182.149.93.75] has joined #lisp 06:17:07 Of course, you shouldn't need elisp to fix your commas. 06:18:21 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:18:30 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:10 I mean the erc install failed 06:22:26 Why? 06:22:57 M-x erc-select donot work 06:23:14 How doesn't it work? 06:24:16 I donot know ,my first time use window emacs 06:25:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:25:26 It works just like the other emacs. 06:25:36 Japanese people write "know ,my" like that. 06:25:46 Watch out for any message showing in the minibuffer. You can also check the message log in the *Messages* buffer. 06:25:52 If you write like that, you'll look like a Japanese person. 06:25:54 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:26:45 you are Japan ,zhi 06:27:18 vos gueules 06:27:40 No. You can tell because I write "hello, lisp" not "hello ,lisp". 06:27:51 If I wrote "hello ,lisp", then you could be sure that I come from Japan -- like you. 06:28:00 How is the weather in Japan? 06:28:03 uman: on se lève du pied gauche alors? 06:28:40  06:28:55 lisp_forth: have you read: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ERC#toc3 06:29:04 lisp_forth: it gives all the instructions to set up erc. 06:29:04 reading 06:29:33 I see 06:30:04 pjb: I just thought I'd add another language to the chorus 06:30:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:32:24 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3BC5.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:32:54 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-30-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:34:52 you are Japan ,zhi 06:35:30 Quad: Japanese people don't eat dogs. 06:36:45 but they eat live raw animals :) 06:37:00 Only by accident. 06:37:12 As opposed to live, cooked animals? 06:37:21 Usually they beat them to death first. 06:37:27 phadthai: live truts are served in Pekin. 06:37:40 They're sliced and cooked so fast, they're still breathing in your plate. 06:37:53 heh 06:38:18 zhi, in Japan now ? 06:38:54 lisp: Ah, you've escaped from Japan! 06:38:57 lisp: Well done. 06:39:38 lisp_forth: could we concentrate on making erc work? 06:40:14 still not, my English not well, I read the construt hard 06:40:28 zhi, is funny 06:41:53 Not as funny as Japanese people. 06:42:49 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 06:42:54 maybe 06:43:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 06:43:28 lisp_forth: type this in emacs: C-x 1 C-x 2 C-x b *Messages* RET C-x o M-x erc-select RET 06:43:37 what do you see at the bottom of *Messages* ? 06:44:55 Hey, what was the name of that library that you could wrap around SBCL's reader to get an input history and the like? 06:45:10 rlwrap 06:45:12 linedit 06:45:12 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:19 linedit, thanks, pjb. 06:45:23 rlwrap is the best 06:46:01 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:46:40 I hadn't heard of that one before. 06:51:04 leyyer_s` [~user@125.70.145.148] has joined #lisp 06:51:08 -!- leyyer_su [~user@182.149.93.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:23 -!- iori [~iori@gateway.plus21.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:26 iori [~iori@gateway.plus21.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:13 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-16.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58:39 stis [~stis@host-90-235-19-92.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:06:05 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:06:58 Hi guys, I'm trying to have a function that accepts a variable and modifies it. When I try this, it only appears to modify it within the scope of the function. What's the trick here? 07:07:08 Bacteria: this is not possible. 07:07:22 Bacteria: in lisp, all parameters are always passed _BY VALUE_. 07:07:27 Oh 07:07:37 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:50 Bacteria: so you have to write a _function_, not a procedure, and write: (setf var (my-fun var)) 07:08:05 You could pass a closure that changes the variable, and call that in the functions 07:08:05 Ah yes. I see. 07:08:27 Bacteria: eg: (let ((friends (list 'andre 'marie 'jacques))) (setf friends (delete 'marie friends))) 07:08:47 Ahhh 07:08:47 Bacteria: notice that there is a macro you can use to define a modify macro: 07:08:52 clhs define-modify-macro 07:09:04 Or wrap the things you want to change in some data struct you pass the value of (like a struct, class, list, ) 07:09:19 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:09:25 It gives as example appendf. (appendf var '(1 2 3)) <-> (setf var (append var '(1 2 3))) 07:09:41 Okay, I see. I don't think I have entirely understood macros yet. 07:09:53 gartenzwerg [gartenzwer@server1.bouncer4you.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:05 Bacteria: so once you've written your function, you can write (define-modify-macro my-funf (place args...) my-fun) and write (my-funf var ...) 07:10:17 Ahhh 07:10:23 Bacteria: you don't really need to understand macros to use define-modify-macro. It's all automatic. 07:10:33 Oh okay. 07:10:42 I'll have a bit of play with that! 07:10:47 Thanks pjb! 07:12:55 -!- beach [~user@116.118.8.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:25 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:24 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:48 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 07:20:56 -!- lisp_forth [b47e8815@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.126.136.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:21:29 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:21:47 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-19-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:22:49 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-38-12.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:22:52 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:23:56 pjb: could you explain the context of ' in (list 'andre ...)? 07:24:13 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 07:24:23 Is this referring to the place andre? 07:25:23 Bacteria: it's constructing a list containing the symbols andre, marie and jacques. 07:25:30 Ahh 07:25:41 Without the quote, those symbols would be interpreted as variables. 07:25:46 And those symbols can be set to something? 07:26:03 Let's say for now: no. 07:26:09 Okay. 07:26:23 In lisp, symbols can be used to store values, with the SYMBOL-VALUE accessor. 07:26:33 But usually we store values in variables instead. 07:26:52 Oh okay 07:26:53 Notice however that SYMBOL-VALUE let you access the value of dynamic variables. 07:27:21 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:27:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:38 In old lisp programs, it's customary to use the symbol-value. But in modern lisp style, we'd rather use a hash-table to store those values. 07:27:54 So when I create a function, its name is essentially a symbol? 07:28:22 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.177.111] has joined #lisp 07:28:29 Anyways, I used (list 'andre 'marie 'jacques) instead of '(andre marie jaques) because I used DELETE (which modifies the list itself) instead of REMOVE (which makes a new list). 07:28:35 -!- uman [~brennan_v@unaffiliated/uman] has left #lisp 07:29:00 Bacteria: yes, in lisp, symbols are used to name functions, variables, classes, etc. 07:29:17 Okay cool. 07:29:37 So the ' character ensures that the code sees something as a symbol and doesn't evaluate it? 07:29:41 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:29:48 -!- bavarious [~bavarious@pdpc/supporter/student/bavarious] has left #lisp 07:29:49 clhs quote 07:30:09 'x is read as (quote x), and the QUOTE special operator returns its argument as is. 07:30:15 Ahh! 07:30:30 (quote x) returns X itself. (quote (a b c)) returns (A B C) itself. 07:30:39 Okay, this is all making sense. 07:30:52 The data returned by QUOTE must be considered as an immutable literal: you cannot modify it. 07:31:52 Bacteria: when you read 'x anywhere in a lisp program (but in comments, strings, etc. of course), always read it in your mind as (quote x). 07:32:23 Bacteria: notably: '(a '(small list) b) returns: (a (quote (small list)) b) which may not be what you want... 07:32:43 (car (car '('a 'b 'c))) --> quote 07:32:51 Excellent. This is slowly making sense now. 07:32:53 (mapcar 'car '('a 'b 'c)) --> (quote quote quote) 07:33:04 clhs car 07:33:12 minion is broken. 07:33:21 Oh 07:34:25 Similarly, #'x is read as (FUNCTION x) and the FUNCTION special operator returns the function named X. X can be either a symbol naming a function, or a list, either (SETF X) when a writer has been defined, or (lambda (parameters...) body...). 07:34:47 But this occurs, like with quote, only when it is evaluated. 07:34:58 And since quote prevents the evaluation of its argument: 07:35:18 '(#'sin #'cos) doesn't return a list of functions, but a list of lists: ((function sin) (function cos)) 07:35:27 (mapcar 'car '(#'sin #'cos)) --> (function function) 07:35:40 Hmm okay. 07:36:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:20 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:36:45 So don't be misled by the reader macros ' and #', and always read them as (quote x) and (function x), and be aware whether they're evaluated or not. 07:37:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:37:58 pjb: Why do you do (mapcar 'car ...) and not (mapcar #'car ...) 07:40:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.32.122] has joined #lisp 07:40:35 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 07:40:50 Quadrescence: Because it's always the same. 07:41:06 1- the standard prevents you to define lexical functions named like a CL function. 07:41:14 join #lispgames 07:41:17 oops 07:41:25 2- therefore everywhere, (eql #'car (symbol-function 'car)). 07:41:53 And since I don't like the # character, I'd write either 'car or (function car) :-) 07:42:21 haha 07:42:24 pjb: I cannot have my own package, that doesn't (use :cl), with my own (defun car) ? 07:42:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:43:05 I accept that I cannot "override" cl:car, but in another package that should be possible, no? 07:43:07 Indeed, in that case, it wouldn't be the car I used. 07:43:18 ok, thanks 07:43:33 *Bacteria* has a lot to learn about lisp. 07:43:46 And in that case, (symbol-function 'car) could be different from (function car), if a flet or labels car was defined. 07:44:04 Bacteria: read one chapter of clhs each day, and in one month, you'll know it all. 07:44:06 so, IIUC, the standard prevents you to redefine the symbol cl:car, right? 07:44:06 Like leo. 07:44:13 s/leo/Neo/ 07:44:16 http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_46_1/boost/utility/binary.hpp 07:44:25 flip214: yes. 11.1.2.1.2 07:44:33 Bacteria: Pjb has a peculiar taste on style. 07:44:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:44:52 Well, it's only #' that I avoid. 07:45:10 BOOST_DETAIL_CONVERT_BIT_SEQUENCE_TO_PARENTHETIC_TUPLE_1 07:45:22 What's those underlines? 07:45:29 My god. 07:45:29 then you could just define your own reader macro #§ for #'... 07:45:33 Blasphemy! 07:45:57 I had to remind you all what the non lisp world runs on 07:46:24 Hahaha 07:50:46 oudeis [~oudeis@82.166.248.14] has joined #lisp 07:52:06 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.126.128.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:52:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:52:11 lifeng 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[~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:42 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 09:19:39 stis_ [~stis@host-95-197-201-243.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:51 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-19-92.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:20:57 splittist [~splittist@238-116.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:23:33 LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has joined #lisp 09:26:01 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:26:32 JohnnyL [JohnnyL@ool-4a5a7407.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:39 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:54 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:34:19 killerboy [~mateusz@441.lab.ics.p.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 09:35:35 LakatosI pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122303 09:35:46 Somebody help me out here 09:35:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:36:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.32.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:09 LakatosI: 1- use emacs 09:36:12 I'm performing simulated anealing, and I am using this score function 09:36:17 LakatosI: 2- type M-x check-parens RET 09:36:22 LakatosI: 3- use paredit. 09:36:49 I am using Emacs. It's just that this code is on a remote server 09:36:57 And putty can't do copy-paste 09:37:03 I know, it looks horrible 09:37:19 The parens are just fine 09:37:39 The score function when run 1000 times takes about 1 second to run 09:38:16 LakatosI: remote server or not, it doesn't matter. C-x C-f /ssh:user@remote.host:/home/lakatosi/src/source.lisp 09:38:36 pjb: it works on winblows, too? 09:38:43 There's one too many closing parenthesis. 09:38:44 If I comment out the line in which penalty is called to calculate how inconvenient a given hour is to a user 09:38:57 I'm on Winsucks, yeah 09:39:10 emacs runs on MS-Windows too. 09:39:36 Where is the plus paranthesis 09:39:40 It shows up fine here 09:39:51 Type M-x check-parens RET and you'll see. 09:40:17 I would use emacs, but I can't run any program on this computer besides the ones accepted by the administrator 09:40:22 Another way, type C-< C-M-f C-M-f C-M-f 09:40:32 -!- xiaohao [da0359f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.3.89.248] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:40:43 LakatosI: debug your programs on your own computer. 09:40:50 I briefly thought it would be nice to have emacs on android, but then thought he key-chords might be a little more challenging on a small touch screen 09:40:56 There's no point in deploying a program full of bugs. 09:40:59 pjb: i don't know where you got the extra paren 09:41:10 There's no extra paren 09:41:20 It runs just fine 09:41:24 ANyways 09:42:00 If I comment out the penalty line, 1000 scores take like 0.06 seconds 09:42:06 jdz: I use emacs-w3m to get the paste, I "click" on Raw, and C-< C-SPC C-M-f C-M-f C-M-f and it fails. M-x check-parens on the *w3m* raw paste and it fails! 09:42:20 Well, if it runs fine, ok. 09:42:26 *pjb* is going to sleep. 09:42:30 So penalty eats up a lot of my time 09:42:32 pjb: then something is wrong with your environment 09:42:41 snearch [~snearch@f053008067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:52 jdz: don't be silly, in the w3m buffer? 09:43:16 pjb: it's not me who's being silly. i copy-paste the code, and it is just fine. 09:43:16 However, penalty only runs like 10000, 100000 times, tops 09:43:35 And that only takes 0.08 seconds 09:43:43 What happened with the rest of my time? 09:43:54 LakatosI: profiler to the rescue! 09:44:00 <|3b|> pjb: are you counting parens in the comment? 09:44:02 jdz: well, it looks like there's a bug in w3m... 09:44:07 If I wget the raw it's ok. 09:44:12 LakatosI: and you really do not want to use (safety 0) 09:44:23 |3b|: perhaps. 09:44:23 09:44:23 09:44:23 09:44:25 THat's only for optimization 09:44:33 LakatosI: even for optimization 09:44:42 LakatosI: just don't do it 09:44:45 Which profiler should I use? 09:44:55 LakatosI: whichever your implementation provides 09:45:00 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:45:17 sbcl Statistical ? 09:45:23 I used it before 09:45:42 But all it told me was that penalty runs a lot 09:45:47 More exactly offset 09:45:58 <|3b|> what compiler are you using that can't even do trivial type propagation? 09:46:10 SBCL :P 09:46:29 I suck at optimization 09:46:33 <|3b|> sbcl does very good type propagation, so you should fix your code rather than just throwing THE aroudn everywhere 09:46:37 LakatosI: anyway, spreading type hints willy-nilly is not the way to get performance 09:46:51 -!- JohnnyL [JohnnyL@ool-4a5a7407.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 09:46:59 It improved my speed with 0.3 seconds 09:47:05 So that's a win for me 09:47:10 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:47:13 Besides, I was following the compiler hints 09:47:14 <|3b|> not if doing it right would have made it faster 09:47:37 <|3b|> with safety 0, you could be breaking things subtly and never notice 09:47:49 <|3b|> and if you didn't break anything, you didn't need the declarations to start with 09:48:36 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:48:50 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:02 <|3b|> also, you might want to look into typed arrays rather than lists 09:49:22 I tried arrays 09:49:34 But they only made things slower 09:49:47 I'm not doing any heavy nth-ing 09:50:07 I'm only recursing and mapping 09:50:27 So lists seemed like a good solution 09:50:37 <|3b|> typed arrays would get rid of the need for a bunch of those THE too 09:51:20 I know 09:51:28 But I need speed right now 09:51:34 and arrays don't provide that 09:51:34 Well, penalty can be written with (reduce (function min) workshop-hours :key (lambda (wh) (offset wh user-hours))) 09:51:41 The compiler might optimize it better. 09:52:34 LakatosI: also, why is the third element of the user list called times, and when passed to penalty, it becomes user-hours? 09:53:08 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-177-189.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:53:12 Those are the hours the user is willing to participate in workshop events 09:53:35 THey are pairs 09:53:39 LakatosI: i have no clue whatsoever of what your code does, but your variable names only confuse me 09:53:46 (from to) 09:53:58 Yeah, 09:54:29 offset could be written more readably with COND. 09:55:03 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:32 and REDUCE can be used instead of the two internal MAPC in score. 09:55:54 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:57:12 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:57:24 Reduce seems to be only slowing down things 09:58:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:19 I fail to see the point in optimizing it for speed. It processes things that takes days if not weeks. If you were programing something related to video packets to be transmitted on the network, I'd understand you'd want to avoid jitter and shave milliseconds or microseconds. But since that's not the case, once it's readable and correct, it's done. 10:01:42 I know 10:01:42 can REDUCE be told to operate on multiple threads in parallel? 10:01:48 This is for a web application 10:02:12 And the jury seems to be obsessed with the fact that I used Lisp and that it is slow 10:02:12 pjb: shaving milliseconds and microseconds off an inner loop can make something go from taking weeks to taking days 10:02:45 It is reasonably fast right now 10:02:46 <|3b|> offer to rewrite it in ruby 10:02:49 LakatosI: slow compared to what ? 10:03:04 Processing 1000 users takes like only 1.3 seconds 10:03:45 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:03 And I don't believe there will ever be a scenario where 1000 conferences with thousands of users request a timetable at the same time 10:04:49 hi 10:04:54 any gsll hero here? 10:04:57 LakatosI: so where is the problem? 10:05:06 koollman: Slow compared to a magical webapplication that performs calculations that in the past required days and weeks on supercomputers in milliseconds 10:05:30 jdz: The jury for this stupid competition is the problem :P 10:05:39 mvelic [~mvelic@c210-49-78-35.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:05:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:53 LakatosI: may i suggest not participating in stupid competitions? 10:06:05 LakatosI: like, programming language benchmark competitions? 10:06:22 -!- mvelic is now known as Boris 10:06:28 -!- Boris is now known as Boris28 10:07:01 Nah, It's just a college web development competiton 10:07:06 LakatosI: if i were you i'd rewrite the whole thing so that it is readable/understandable first. 10:07:52 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:58 amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 10:10:10 *|3b|* wonders how 'profiler says OFFSET runs a lot' translates to way too much optimization junk in SCORE, and /none/ in OFFSET 10:10:26 ilmari: What I mean, is that when you compute the payroll, as long as your program takes less than one month to run (in countries where pay is paid each month), it's ok. 10:11:07 | 10:11:15 pjb annotated #122303 "correction" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122303#1 10:11:19 stis__ [~stis@host-95-201-119-44.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:24 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:11:28 <|3b|> (not that optimizing OFFSET like SCORE would be a particularly good thing) 10:11:28 LakatosI: since you don't give a complete program, we cannot debug it for you. 10:11:32 |3b|: I first optimized score, because it was running the most before 10:11:34 LakatosI: please, compile and run my code. 10:11:43 I can sympathize with LakatosI's problem though. When using Lisp, we unfortunately often have to prove that we are way better that what is required by other languages. 10:11:49 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:11:51 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-95-197-201-243.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:10 *|3b|* thinks it has lots of room to optimize, but needs more context to work on it 10:12:14 pjb: hi 10:12:18 Hi. 10:12:32 is there any plot library in quicklisp? 10:12:40 I need something fast and simple 10:12:44 LakatosI: there's no point in putting type declarations when you're using O(n) inner loops instead of O(1). 10:12:53 just to plot my cubic spline functions :) 10:12:55 thanks 10:13:12 cl-vecto can do it IIRC. 10:13:23 vecto? 10:13:56 right vecto. 10:13:59 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:14:00 <|3b|> if not, splines aren't too hard to draw by hand if you don't care too much about performance 10:14:09 Posterdati: perhaps you'll want cl-vectors which use vecto. 10:14:12 <|3b|> (with something like vecto) 10:14:31 pjb: Your code runs successfully 10:14:37 And at what speed? 10:14:44 Unfortuneately, now it takes 4.6 seconds to perform the claculations :( 10:14:44 pjb: cl-vectors.... 10:15:14 I isolated bug in my code and expressed it separately here: http://pastebin.com/rbZ8DwP1 I don't understand why this doesn't work 10:15:34 LakatosI: It would be good if you kept preference as a vector instead of a list, so we wouldn't have to copy it in a list each time we process a user. 10:15:42 <|3b|> amaron: step 1: don't use tabs 10:16:11 LakatosI: also, are the preferences floating points? 10:16:22 yeah 10:16:52 LakatosI: in this case, you can make it with: (make-array size :element-type 'single-float :initial-element 0.0e0) 10:17:51 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326AE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:51 <|3b|> amaron: #2 did you mean ASSOC instead of FIND ... :KEY 'CAR ? 10:18:00 Otherwise, I don't see any need for any type declarations. The types can be infered by a compiler that would process the type declarations, so IMO they'd be useless. 10:18:22 <|3b|> amaron: #3 ' prevents evaluation, including of things like QUOTE 10:18:34 I tried using arrays before 10:18:39 <|3b|> amaron: so '(foo 'bar) evaluates to (foo (quote bar)) 10:18:45 But they slowed things down considerable 10:18:55 Hm... 10:18:55 <|3b|> LakatosI: maybe you used them wrong then? 10:19:23 *|3b|* would expect something using typed arrays to be much easier to make fast 10:19:37 I don't know. I followed every good advice I knew about arrays 10:19:38 <|3b|> and with much less reliance on SAFETY 0 10:20:01 <|3b|> well, we can't tell you what was wrong without seeing the code :/ 10:20:09 Meh, I'll leave it the way it is right now 10:20:28 <|3b|> tell the jury we said there was plenty of room to optimize it still :) 10:20:34 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082A163.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20:34 |3b| I would be more than willing to show you the entire code 10:20:49 Unfortuneately copy-pasting would take too much time with putty 10:21:19 <|3b|> doesn't it have scp or something? 10:21:22 I don't really have time right now to rewrite things either to sue arrays... 10:21:30 |3b|: No. 10:21:36 Which I find incredibly stupid 10:21:44 And paranoid 10:22:18 But I will rewrite it in the near future 10:22:29 So I'll probably use arrays then 10:22:42 Anyways, thanks for all the help 10:23:07 Yes, putty has scp. 10:26:02 It does? 10:26:35 And even sftp IIRC. 10:26:52 Are you sure? 10:27:01 It doesn't show me any options for scp or sftp 10:27:38 See chapter 4 and 6: http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/0.60/htmldoc/ 10:27:41 5 and 6. 10:27:44 -!- stis__ [~stis@host-95-201-119-44.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:04 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:28:21 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:28:59 yeah, I see 10:29:11 But I can't seem to find the executable anywhere 10:30:11 I guess I'll be going 10:30:18 THanks for the help everyone 10:30:21 -!- LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:36:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bsjzyedkowwsjurn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:36:45 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:58 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:44 -!- iori [~iori@gateway.plus21.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:28 -!- alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 10:45:23 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:45:41 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 10:46:52 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:47:14 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:47:43 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:49:33 Hey using Postmodern--Postgresql how do you use the value in one column of a table as a key to obtain a value in another column? 10:51:09 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-71-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:52:11 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-12-231.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:54:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jsdvwtaqqagqeygu] has joined #lisp 10:54:39 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:59:34 iori [~iori@gateway.plus21.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:04 mrSpec [~Spec@mask.icslab.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 11:04:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@mask.icslab.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Changing host] 11:04:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:04:49 BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-146-147.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:16 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:08:14 museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:56 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-115-225.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 lichtblau [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:49 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:53 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.30.138] has joined #lisp 11:22:03 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:24:54 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:26:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:28:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:28:30 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-200-52.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:13 *pinterface* ponders if SBCL is right to complain about too many &rests in the macro lambda list (&optional (&rest a) (&rest b)). 11:35:21 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.83] has joined #lisp 11:35:21 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.83] has quit [Changing host] 11:35:21 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:35:52 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:36:33 <|3b|> pinterface: multiple arguments with the same you mean? seems like a reasonable complaint 11:36:51 <|3b|> *with the same name 11:41:21 pinterface: I don't think that's how you destructure in &optionals 11:41:28 <|3b|> did you mean (&optional ((&rest a)) ((&rest b)))? 11:41:54 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-2-152.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:57 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@209.195.112.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:41:57 *pinterface* facepalms 11:42:01 D'oh! 11:42:07 <|3b|> (&optional (&rest a)) is an optional argument names &rest that defaults to a 11:43:17 Okay, so it's just me being a moron and forgetting how &optional works. Good to know. 11:43:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:43:27 Thanks. :) 11:44:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:45:23 tfb [~tfb@92.40.160.33.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:45:44 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.153.229] has joined #lisp 11:47:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:02 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-mqmcfudnibsduivm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@441.lab.ics.p.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:50:10 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:50:53 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-xdyrciauczttcjss] has joined #lisp 11:51:20 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.30.138] has joined #lisp 11:51:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:51:39 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.30.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.177.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:32 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.177.111] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 11:55:39 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:57:32 -!- iori [~iori@gateway.plus21.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:57:58 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Client Quit] 11:58:08 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 11:59:00 Joreji [~thomas@82-199.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:59:13 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:01:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:02:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:04:07 pjb: I'm trying to use plplot... 12:04:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A4FDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:34 pjb: no window at all :) 12:07:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:13:22 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:16:19 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:45 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jsdvwtaqqagqeygu] has left #lisp 12:20:40 Demosthenes [~demo@mf75736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:23:09 _fogus_ [~fogus@pool-96-255-210-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:07 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:11 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:23 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:31:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:31:48 -!- ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:32:08 ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has joined #lisp 12:35:00 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:46 pnq [~nick@AC81DD14.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:28 damg [~damg@p54ADBB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 12:39:07 Good morning. 12:39:33 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: jeekl] 12:40:21 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 12:40:56 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.30.138] has joined #lisp 12:41:08 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:32 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.30.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:12 burton` [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:16 -!- burton` is now known as kruhft 12:45:22 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:45:29 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.78] has joined #lisp 12:45:54 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:59 hi 12:46:08 any cl-plplot geek? 12:47:32 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122304 12:47:37 no window at all! 12:47:48 repl blocked I've to ctrl+c+c 12:48:01 then if I restart my code I've got memory exception 12:48:12 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:48:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-199.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:17 -!- Yuzu- is now known as Yuzuchan 12:50:35 :( 12:50:36 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:15 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:51:22 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:52:40 -!- _fogus_ is now known as `fogus 12:53:43 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-115-225.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:03 Posterdati: should "x11" be "xwin" ? 12:54:19 splittist: I've put xwin too :( 12:54:31 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:48 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mf75736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:54:49 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:55:22 Posterdati: have you ever got anything to plot with cl-plplot, even the simplest examples included with the dist? 12:55:44 no 12:56:04 Have you ever got anything to plot with plplot directly? 12:56:11 I haven't tried yet, just copied the example from docs 12:56:21 no direct test 12:56:51 is the formatting of http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ messed up (see a bit deeper in the doc body), or is it just me? 12:57:22 splittist: wait no xwin driver installed :) 12:57:24 nikodemus_: looks ok to me. i've occasionally had problems with auto-detection of the wrong character set. 12:57:43 Unhandled memory fault at #x18. 12:57:44 [Condition of type SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR] 12:57:48 Xach: look at eg after "See also POST-PARAMETER" 12:58:03 nikodemus_: looks fine to me, through and through. 12:58:58 nikodemus_: same here (not quite up-to-date chrome on win7) 12:59:08 same as in 'looks fine' 12:59:11 splittist: worked!!! 12:59:15 huh 12:59:16 12:59:16 12:59:40 is it html for you, or does you browser know how to format that better than mine? 12:59:54 nikodemus_: it's xml 13:01:39 nikodemus pasted "wtf?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122305 13:01:57 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:02:07 aargh 13:02:39 Posterdati: what worked? 13:03:00 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:33 ok. chromium manages it 13:03:51 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 13:06:19 splittist: plplot 13:06:49 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.27.119.247] has joined #lisp 13:07:28 Posterdati: does the libplplotd version match the cl-plplot one? 13:09:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-30-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:26 HerrBlume [~user@stgt-5d849242.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:53 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 Does someone know a java library to read common lisp? 13:10:06 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22C29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:21 HerrBlume: Longino CL might 13:10:22 Does abcl count? 13:10:23 benny [~benny@i577A2734.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:25 splittist: ? 13:10:30 gigamonkey: hi 13:10:45 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 splittist: yes, I installed them with apt-get 13:12:17 Xach: hey, longino looks cool 13:12:32 Posterdati: just wondering if some plplot c function has changed its signature since the cffi bindings had been generated for cl-plplot (or equivalent). Since you're only using two, it shouldn't be hard to isolate... 13:12:55 but i'm looking for a simple way to parse property lists. 13:13:03 HerrBlume: I found it pretty hard to evaluate, since it doesn't have a repl, and the author seemed to have a pretty cavalier stance regarding conformance to the specification. 13:13:11 splittist: but I've got no problem now, it wasn't libplplot installed at all :) 13:14:55 *HerrBlume* will parse the property list by himself 13:14:56 slyrus: (clem:print-matrix *x*) doesn't work on arrays 13:15:19 on things like # 13:15:42 HerrBlume: where did your property lists come from? 13:16:09 Xach: configuration files from an common lisp system 13:16:48 HerrBlume: a full common lisp reader has to handle a lot of details, but a simple reader is not too tricky to make. 13:16:59 Xach: In every java project where i have to read these files, i implement a buggy recursive descent parser to get at the values. 13:17:05 Joreji [~thomas@82-199.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:17:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.177.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:29 is Longino open source? 13:18:58 HerrBlume: it looks like it is GPL or LGPL 13:19:10 *splittist* thought all these poplular mainstream languages had widely available robust libraries for everything, and it was only in lisp one was actually forced to implement anything, explaining lisp's failure... 13:19:37 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.248.181] has joined #lisp 13:20:48 whether or not it's a failure depends on your success criteria 13:22:39 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.27.119.247] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:24:03 splittist the difference is there are languages where you can write your own libs very fast so you are indypendant and languages where you are fucked when there is no lib because it is very hard to get anything done in them, CL is the first 13:25:40 every language has it's place... (even if it's under the bridge) 13:25:44 :) 13:26:38 splittist: it works! Thanks 13:27:01 Posterdati: hooray! 13:27:14 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:27:14 yeah! 13:27:17 arrgh, wo ist minion ? 13:27:42 unter der Brück 13:27:47 e 13:28:24 sur le pont d'avignon 13:32:05 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 13:33:18 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:25 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:44 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 13:33:47 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.163] has joined #lisp 13:33:47 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.163] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:47 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:33:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:36:03 there are some changes in http://bknr.net/trac/changeset/4667 to make cl-fad:delete-directory-and-files to not resolve symlinks when deleting (preferably using an implementation-provided function to remove the directory) 13:36:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.248.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 13:36:40 currently this is only supported on SBCL and Clozure CL 13:37:04 now is a good time to add support for "your" implementation 13:37:24 add^_ [~add^_^@h9n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:30 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:34 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:41:59 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:18 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:45:47 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 13:46:18 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:32 -!- mrSpec 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[~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:52 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:34:24 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-38-155.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:37:19 nikodemus: You around? 16:37:32 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:39:25 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:29 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-38-155.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 16:41:13 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 16:43:37 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-bcoqibnbfzrkrqeb] has joined #lisp 16:43:47 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:57 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22C29.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:01 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 16:50:30 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:52:57 morning 16:53:25 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.160.33.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:54:05 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:34 vicsramirez [~vicsramir@189.189.193.237] has joined #lisp 16:57:59 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:41 -!- damg [~damg@p54ADBB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:41 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 17:01:38 Are there any IDEs for lisp? 17:02:03 luke__: what do you mean when you say IDE? 17:02:31 luke__: Yes. 17:02:35 alegro and lispworks both have a development environment that is visual studio-ish. 17:03:05 clozure cl on the mac has a development environment similar to the alegro and lispworks ones. 17:03:11 Easy to use dedicated editor, preferably where I have lots of easily accesible tools, settings, preferences etc. 17:03:28 <|3b|> does emacs + slime count? 17:03:38 the rest of us use emacs and slime, although there are a handful of heretics that use vim. 17:04:15 there are a couple of common lisp modes available for eclipse but I know nothing about them. 17:04:21 cusp is one 17:04:25 Is that just for historic reasons, no one really wanted to change? Or are they actually better. 17:04:43 luke__: the people who use them think they're better 17:04:55 luke__: that kind of goes for anything, though 17:05:00 It's a pretty significant effort to make something so much better that it's worth the trouble for people to switch. 17:05:18 If you have the time & talent to make something like that, you probably could get paid pretty well to do it, too. 17:05:36 emacs is like lisp in that attempts to make a better one have resulted in the features being subsumed into the original 17:07:28 I'll have a look at emacs then, I don't much like to idea of using a commercial program... 17:08:48 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.107.142] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 -!- akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:29 Xach: I might actually try and do that. I was looking for a project to work on with a friend over the holidays, and the idea of an improved type of IDE came up. Was the best idea we had, so I'll probably have a go at doing it. 17:10:42 Won't get anywhere near finishing it of course. ;) 17:11:01 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 17:11:19 porting the code for the clozure cl ide to non-quartz systems would give you a signifigant base for such a project. 17:11:41 see also hemlock and climacs 17:13:05 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4FDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:20 Thanks. 17:14:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:35 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-120-200.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-bcoqibnbfzrkrqeb] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:16:58 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-220.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:17 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-vnruewwdwefrkmhr] has joined #lisp 17:21:10 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-120-200.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21:43 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:10 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:15 luke__: or porting the Deuce editor from Dylan to CL. (Of course you'd have to replace the DUIM bits.) 17:24:13 or wait for http://cl-duim.blogspot.com/ 17:25:30 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:27:27 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-6.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:21 That looks good. I've still got to convince him to use lisp yet. He thinks it's outdated, but I think he's coming around. 17:29:08 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:14 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 17:29:48 I'm definately likeing what I've seen so far. Lisp just seems far more efficient. :) 17:30:23 not outdated, eternal. Imagine if he'd been programming in Algol, Pascal, Ada, Eiffel, Delphi... all wasted. But lisp - you know it'll be here next year, next decade, next 50 years... 17:31:09 m__h__ [~m@kwlan1.uoks.uj.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:31:52 I might just quote that, since he spent the last year learning delphi... 17:32:42 MiggyX [~miggyx@119247168008.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 -!- dmiles [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:36:34 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-156-6.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:15 re the IDE question: I don't have a Mac, but if I did, I'd certainly give MCLIDE a try. 17:39:14 It certainly supports... many little windows! And presumably has an old-school feel-at-home appeal for MCL users. 17:41:28 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:42:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:18 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:53 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:05 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:00 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:48:09 add^_ [~add^_^@h9n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:17 akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:10 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 17:52:10 aperturefever` [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 17:54:49 how do i find out where a process stderr is going to while attached with gdb? 17:55:50 nikodemus_: the easiest way is to ls -l /proc/ nikodemus_: the easiest way is to ls -l /proc//fd 17:55:58 kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:05 of course! thanks! 17:56:59 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:59 -!- aperturefever` is now known as aperturefever 17:57:24 aperturefever` [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 18:00:11 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:05 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 18:03:26 neaer [~adskjf@118.39.114.41] has joined #lisp 18:04:08 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:04:38 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:05:36 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.30] has joined #lisp 18:08:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed 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[Quit: Leaving] 19:10:43 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14:51 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:14:52 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-11-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:52 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:15:16 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.98.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:39 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:16 temp-user [~lispm@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:19:34 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:19:40 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:21:17 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:22:20 Anyone here got any experience in making Open Genera run on a x64 machine running Ubuntu? 19:23:35 you need old ubuntu 19:23:45 Ah, how come? 19:24:45 temp-user: X.Org breaks VLM and Genera's X11 client 19:25:20 p_l|backup: Gah. Okay. That's sad. I've managed to set everything up and so on 19:25:31 th first is broken by xcb-backed xlib, the second is because of X.Org dropping some stuff in newer versions 19:26:01 temp-user: I had a torrnt of ready vm for virtual box, but it might be slightly annoying to upload it at the moment 19:26:58 p_l|backup: Hm, I guess you don't want to take the time to upload it for me then? (slightly annoying isn't a strict 'no' for me) 19:28:19 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:29:02 temp-user: flaky internet, no place to upload it too,and too many things to take care of 19:29:04 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC05BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:29:19 temp-user: Why do you want to run Open Genera? 19:29:20 I might ask some people who downloaded it from me to put it back,though 19:30:13 is PAIP a good learning CL book? (I've already read PCL) 19:30:36 add^_: yes 19:30:58 Ok, ty Xach :-) 19:31:33 add^_: very good 19:32:03 explain more :-) 19:32:07 why is it so good? 19:32:39 because of the exercises? 19:32:51 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:33:27 add^_: It covers a lot of useful CL-specific features. It's not a "platonic Lisp" book that uses CL as the mechanism. Peter Norvig is pretty smart and the writing is clear and the tasks are interesting. 19:33:50 ah 19:35:00 Xach: I'm just curious really 19:35:17 p_l|backup: Ah, ok, not gonna bother you with that then. Thanks for the info anyway 19:35:35 One thing I can't get my mind of is one of the exercises where he wants you to make a "power to" function, and in his answer, he uses an function which is in theory already a "power to" function.. expt that is.. 19:36:04 Maybe I've misunderstood expt.. 19:36:13 add^_: That just sounds like the author is silly 19:36:30 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.41.134] has joined #lisp 19:36:31 He must have his reasons :-/ 19:36:52 Which exercise is that? 19:37:04 http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_exp_e.htm 19:37:23 snearch [~snearch@f053008067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:26 1.2 19:37:32 To me this sounds like expt is a "power to" function and I've always used it as so 19:37:33 arunkn [~user@122.178.243.158] has joined #lisp 19:37:37 bike: 1.2 19:38:12 Hm, no tricks there, he wants expt. 19:38:24 No harm in understanding how it works, though. 19:38:28 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:39:01 Well, not really expt even, since it's integer powers only. 19:39:11 Hm, anyway, I've got to go so p_l|backup: Thanks for your help once again 19:39:38 cya temp-user 19:39:56 Bike: I guess.. 19:40:33 Hm, partall isn't recognised by irssi? Oh, whatever. 19:40:36 -!- temp-user [~lispm@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:41:16 I need to exercise my brain more.. I feel stupid when I try to do most of his exercises. 19:41:34 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:38 And technically, expt is a nontrivial function if you want to maximize efficiency. 19:42:15 -!- aperturefever` [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Quit: Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire. So to a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders - Epictetus] 19:43:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:56 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:44:16 pnq [~nick@AC811EF6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:44 *add^_* continues reading PAIP 19:51:11 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:54:29 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:50 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:55:43 -!- mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:45 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:55 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:56:08 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:41 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:06 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:59:48 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:12 francogrex [~user@109.130.212.75] has joined #lisp 20:01:57 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:01 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:19 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:04:22 -!- arunkn [~user@122.178.243.158] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:05:22 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 20:07:27 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@ec2-50-16-8-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:08:53 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:10:05 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:28 gotta get down on friday 20:10:45 mpereira [~mpereira@ec2-50-16-8-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:47 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:05 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:12 red1ynx [~red1ynx@178.120.18.75] has joined #lisp 20:16:00 -!- beach [~user@116.118.8.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:44 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.41.134] has quit [Quit: bsod1] 20:16:57 -!- prip [~foo@host233-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:16 prip [~foo@host233-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:18:23 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.212.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:42 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:18:43 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7C1FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:12 argh mapcan... argh. 20:19:36 what's so arghy about mapcan? 20:20:33 I just spent a few hours tracking down a bug I caused by using mapcan... cause I forgot it used nconc underneath instead of append 20:20:44 the 'n' shoulda tipped me eh? 20:21:28 now you know 20:24:54 i don't think i've ever written a mapcan where the lambda body did't look something like (when ... (list ...)) 20:26:09 i would just use LOOP for this case 20:27:04 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:15 i usually use mapcan to merge results from recursive functions 20:27:18 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@ec2-50-16-8-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:27:20 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:29 I had multiple objects and needed to combine one of their slots (which holds a list) into just one big list. So I was mapcanning the accessor over the objects. 20:27:43 mpereira [~mpereira@ec2-50-16-8-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:13 silly me 20:28:18 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.6.78] has joined #lisp 20:28:28 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:29:04 -!- red1ynx [~red1ynx@178.120.18.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:31:46 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-236-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:15 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:11 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@ec2-50-16-8-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:33:21 add^_^ [~add^_^@h97n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:07 homie 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joined #lisp 21:48:12 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 21:49:34 -!- GETOUT [4572a1e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.114.161.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:50:32 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 21:51:13 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 21:51:31 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:23 cheezus1 [~Adium@69.196.141.102] has joined #lisp 21:52:32 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h139n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 21:52:33 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:37 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:55:05 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-128-237.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122318 - ive got this long list and im have trouble figuring out how to pull out the (("content" . "fdsafdsa") (("type" "html")) "text here")) 21:57:57 do i match on the first item in the list then pull the 3rd out? 21:58:14 akimbo: this is not exactly a list, is it? 21:58:27 well it comes from the xmls output 21:58:37 akimbo: you could try some wetware pattern matching, and recognize some structure to it. 21:59:05 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:17 ok i just didnt know if there were some iterative approach when dealing with xmls 21:59:34 It's a list of trees, where each node has the structure ( ...). 21:59:42 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-13-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:59:55 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-13-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 22:00:00 can be a string, or a cons cell ( . ) 22:00:48 is a list or name values: ("attribute-name" "attribute-value" ...) 22:00:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:09 And is a string or a subnode. 22:01:23 akimbo: so you can abstract this away writing functions: 22:01:32 (defun node-tag (node) (first node)) 22:01:37 so i could match on and pull node 22:01:40 (defun node-attributes (node) (second node)) 22:01:47 (defun node-contents (node) (cddr node)) 22:01:50 i see 22:02:04 (defun tag-name (tag) (if (stringp tag) tag (first tag))) 22:02:14 or you could use, you know, cxml or something 22:02:20 drdo` [~user@89-180-245-62.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:02:30 i used xmls to conver it to this 22:02:33 And then you can indeed write tree walking functions to search and select nodes on tag or attributes/values, etc. 22:02:46 ok cool thanks! 22:03:33 what pjb propose is what you will get with cxml, only it won't be stored in conses 22:04:03 -!- drdo [~user@89.180.114.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:51 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:05:13 i messed with cxml but couldnt figure out how to pull the data out of the element once i did a match on :local-name 22:05:34 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-139-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:06:17 and that's the only reason for you to jump to xmls? 22:06:40 well, no.. ive just been trying to read through code and documentation for 2 days and starting to get frustrated 22:06:56 i at least can comprehend the xmls stuff a little better 22:07:25 when you'll start to get frustrated with xmls, where will you run? 22:07:32 yeah, you have to experiment a bit with cxml 22:07:38 python i guess :\ 22:07:43 but it grows on you (at least it did grow on me) (: 22:08:07 it grows on you as much as something with "xml" in its description can grow 22:08:07 yea i want to learn but its a slow painful process 22:08:43 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has joined #lisp 22:08:44 well, klacks is one of the best (and most fun) parsing methods I know (: 22:08:44 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:08:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:57 i saw where cxml uses xmls or stp 22:08:57 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:09:08 do i use stp when parsing the xml file? 22:09:40 i don't really use cxml directly, but with cxml-stp, you can get data with stp:string-value, stp:attribute-value 22:10:01 yea i was attempting to use that yesterday looking through your imdb code 22:10:39 pjb pasted "xmls-tools" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122320 22:10:44 -!- krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:20 akimbo: have a look at those xmls-tools, it's nothing sophisticated, just what I used to process xml files read with xmls. 22:11:33 pjb: ok thanks ill read through this now 22:11:37 don't look, GPL is contagious! 22:12:36 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:38 -!- gartenzwerg [gartenzwer@server1.bouncer4you.de] has left #lisp 22:12:58 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:13:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:23 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:15:08 -!- varjag [~eugene@162.163.9.46.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:17:21 francogrex [~user@109.130.212.75] has joined #lisp 22:19:08 beach [~user@116.118.8.78] has joined #lisp 22:19:17 drdo`` [~user@89-181-127-94.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:20:29 Good morning everyone! 22:20:33 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:20:39 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-178-001-122-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:46 -!- drdo` [~user@89-180-245-62.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:21:11 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:22:31 hello beach 22:22:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:23:45 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:23:45 Joreji__ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:25:09 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has quit [Quit: reboot] 22:26:00 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:49 wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:05 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has joined #lisp 22:29:05 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 ltriant [~ltriant@124-170-56-58.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:31:48 xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.76] has joined #lisp 22:32:56 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:42 Morning beach! 22:33:49 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:27 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-76-204-103-109.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 22:35:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:36:41 -!- xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39:43 urandom__ [~user@p548A344E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:02 -!- drdo`` [~user@89-181-127-94.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:41:57 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:38 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has quit [Quit: still rebooting...] 22:42:39 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 22:43:58 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:44:33 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has joined #lisp 22:47:22 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:47:24 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 22:47:56 Bacteria: How is learning Lisp going? 22:48:44 It's going well, I was working through the project euler problems last night. 22:49:37 Bacteria: Congratulations! 22:50:57 I still haven't entirely gotten the hang of it, I still think I have kept a lot of my C/C++ coding style. 22:50:58 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-105-118.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:51:39 But I'm impressed and intrigued by the language 22:52:08 Bacteria: Those things take time. But as long as you are actively working on adapting your coding style, you should be fine eventually. 22:52:16 Excellent! 22:52:18 Bacteria: What languages do you know already? 22:52:31 Mostly C/C++ and python 22:52:57 Hello 22:53:09 I've played with erlang before, and can work my way around php. 22:53:10 Hello Kenjin 22:53:18 Hey Kenjin 22:53:21 :) 22:53:54 Was wondering whats the general opinion on clack, if any 22:55:01 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.212.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:33 Oooh, looks interesting. 22:56:06 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:58:44 Kenjin: To me, it looks a little too low level. 22:58:57 mrSpec [~Spec@89-72-74-11.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 22:58:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-72-74-11.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 22:58:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:59:08 Bacteria: I think that's supposed to be the idea 22:59:11 Ahh 22:59:15 as is with Rack 22:59:29 IIf that's the case, then it would appear to be quite powerful. 23:00:15 But other than that, I'm not sure what other lisp web packages exist and how it compares. 23:00:49 I know of some, but don't have the knowledge to have an informed opinion. Hence, my question ;) 23:01:19 Hello Lispers! 23:01:30 good evening, mon_key 23:01:31 hi mon_key :) 23:01:50 Fade: Kenjin: Hi! 23:01:57 Kenjin: Sorry, I'm a newbie with lisp, might need to ask someone who has a bit more experience. 23:02:02 o/ mon_key 23:02:24 when PROBE-FILE returns non-nil its always a #P right? 23:02:31 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:02:46 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:03:54 -!- Papa_Stefano [~chatzilla@72.128.59.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:59 mon_key: yes. 23:04:23 mon_key: it's always a non-logical pathname object, and #p... is the read syntax for an object like that. 23:04:50 Xach: Thanks. I can never seem to remember that on. 23:06:59 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 23:07:32 Xach: BTW your blog the other day was neat and informative. Thanks for that too! 23:08:42 Papa_Stefano [~chatzilla@72.128.59.233] has joined #lisp 23:08:59 I currently reading both ANSI Common Lisp and Land of Lisp. Is this a good course of action? 23:09:03 tcr1: ping 23:09:24 pkhuong: kind of pong 23:09:40 Do you have time for ? 23:09:40 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 23:10:03 beach: if you have a couple largish CLIM applications, that'd provide an interesting data point for as well. 23:11:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:03 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:29 pkhuong: will that count non-collected garbage, too? 23:13:20 yes. 23:14:42 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 23:14:53 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 23:15:17 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:31 ok so this is what ive got so far http://paste.lisp.org/display/122321 23:16:52 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 23:16:56 and it works except when doing a (push (find-title *db* "title") *document-list*) its coming up NIL 23:17:08 but when adding a (format t..) i can see the titles 23:18:23 your find-title function doesn't seem to return anything meaningful 23:19:02 do i need to pass a list symbol into the function? 23:19:34 i can't make sense of that questions 23:19:57 do you know what stp:do-recursively is doing? 23:19:58 do i just return a list after it iterates trhough the node? 23:20:44 kind of, it looks like its going through the whole node and when it reaches a type stp:element and finds the :local-name "title" it creates a list with that in it 23:20:58 well "i" create the list 23:21:13 and what do you do with that created list of yours? 23:21:22 hmmm.. nothing? 23:21:27 exactly 23:21:41 so (push (find-title .. ..) mylist) does nothing? 23:22:00 no, it does push NIL to mylist 23:22:04 i see 23:22:11 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-177-189.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:22:24 so do i need to return my list once out of the loop? 23:22:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:24:34 i was reading PCL on a pratical-simple-database 23:24:35 if you want to return a first matching node, why not just do (stp:find-recursively-if (lambda (node) (and (typep node 'stp:element) (equal (stp:local-name node) local-name) (list :title (stp:string-value a)))) node)? 23:24:56 well im still learning so thats a bit beyond me atm 23:25:12 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:25:15 i guess the function name is misleading 23:25:22 i have several elements within the node 23:25:44 mrSpec [~Spec@89-72-74-11.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 23:25:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-72-74-11.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 23:25:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:25:49 push the valu into an accumulator and return it at the end of the function. 23:26:07 ok that makes sense 23:26:16 Deathaholic [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 23:26:34 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:02 i think im confused at the PCL docs that have a (add-record (make-cd "test" "blah")) 23:27:34 since that make-cd function only does (list :title title ...) 23:27:44 in general lisp functions should be designed to return values. 23:27:46 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 you can't make them return no values! 23:28:12 (defun make-cd (title artist rating ripped) (list :title title :artist artist :rating rating :ripped ripped)) - is there a return value here? 23:28:18 even zero values is a value 23:28:31 well, if you 'forget', it'll implicitly return nil 23:28:31 you can never return, though 23:28:48 *Fade* wanders off for dinner 23:28:49 and this function (defun add-record (cd) (push cd *db*)) 23:28:52 have a good evening, folks 23:29:01 akimbo: yes, there is 23:29:11 akimbo: just try running (make-cd "test" "blah") 23:29:16 and see what it returns 23:29:32 ah ok... so my find-title function is using the (list) out of scope? 23:30:16 that's sounds confused 23:30:39 find-title returns what do-recursively returns, and do-recursively returns NIL 23:30:51 hmmm ok 23:31:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:42 if you want to return something else, you can use RETURN 23:32:22 it will transfer control out of do-recursively and return a value 23:32:47 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:52 pkhuong: ok 23:34:22 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:34:36 pkhuong: are you collect those stats for a fresh SBCL or are you interested in one thats been alive for awhile? 23:34:55 mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:27 mon_key: I can get a fresh SBCL myself ;) I want to see what it's like when it's running different people's code. 23:35:30 tcr1: thanks 23:37:19 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 23:37:25 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d310:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has joined #lisp 23:38:34 pkhuong: add that mine to the pile :) 23:41:32 lisp_forth [7a60cce4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.96.204.228] has joined #lisp 23:42:45 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:44:14 hello. everyman 23:44:28 hello lisp_forth 23:46:03 lisp_forth: Did you fix your typographical quirks yet? 23:46:06 everyman? 23:46:26 lispers can't be everyman! 23:47:27 -!- vicsramirez [~vicsramir@189.189.193.237] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 23:47:36 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:48:40 (not (member lisper everyman :test #'(lambda (x) (and (lisperp x) (everymanp x))))) 23:49:25 (notany (lambda (x) (and (lisperp x) (everymanp x))) men) 23:49:54 :) or member-if-not ? 23:51:03 (notany #'lisperp (remove-if-not #'everymanp men)) 23:51:12 Thats the one! 23:53:27 haha 23:53:31 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-131-244-56.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:53:52 it can be made shorter (notany 'lisperp (remove-if-not #'everymanp men)) 23:54:06 err, hit RET too soon 23:54:09 but you got the idea 23:54:30 great code 23:55:05 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:49 lisp_forth: of course, an everyman couldn't write such great code! 23:56:14 yes ,i know your code mean 23:56:35 lisp_forth: So I guess the answer to my question is "no". 23:56:51 sure 23:57:31 your question? 23:57:44 lisp_forth: Did you fix your typographical quirks yet? 23:57:58 ehm, not yet 23:58:33 the question is commas right? 23:58:42 Right. 23:59:04 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.6.60] has joined #lisp 23:59:22 well, commas are typographical, but I have to say you need to polish your english ;-) 23:59:22 I will fix the question, thank you 23:59:37 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]