00:01:04 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:30 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-252-210.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:32 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:04:55 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-136.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:14 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:27 sacho [~sacho@82.137.67.126] has joined #lisp 00:11:23 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:15:47 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-252-210.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:16:30 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 00:16:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:17:07 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:35 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3708.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:37 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-150-61.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:45 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B999.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:19:54 I really should have started with the hunchentoot pages for my first exposure to lisp. If only I had known. 00:20:11 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:30 sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:43 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:48 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:51 wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has joined #lisp 00:23:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@82.137.67.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:24:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-191-34-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:07 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.39] has joined #lisp 00:26:37 neophyte [Smith@unaffiliated/neophyte] has joined #lisp 00:31:03 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 00:31:52 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:20 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 00:40:41 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:10 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:47:27 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:36 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:51:06 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:28 -!- astoon [~chatzilla@nat105-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:02 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 00:53:41 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:54:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:48 gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:57 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 00:55:37 pjb`` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:40 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:56:06 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 00:58:10 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:38 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 01:00:58 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:01 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:05:29 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:58 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@41.56.5.133] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:08:07 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:14:26 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 01:15:55 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 01:18:29 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:20:01 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:11 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:26 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:22:15 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:06 -!- madnificent is now known as m4dnificent 01:23:12 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 01:23:46 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 01:27:28 Hello , everyone! How to image the lisps binding? 01:28:02 What does that mean? 01:30:36 *spiaggia* suspects that this is another case of him having no clue what is meant, but it is clear to everyone else. 01:31:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:31:28 no 01:31:50 how to image a running lisp == specific to the implementation you're using 01:32:05 how to imagine lisp's bindings work == can you be more specific about the case? 01:32:09 those are the 2 parses I see 01:32:09 Phooodus: Last time I looked, "image" was not a verb. 01:32:27 -work 01:32:59 spiaggia: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/image 01:33:17 Yes , I mean how to image lisp's bindings work. 01:33:39 wislin: Do you mean "imagine"? 01:33:44 sellout-: Thanks. 01:33:54 kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-jmbiaekbbbmfxngc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:07 spiaggia: Not that I am comprehending any better than you ;) 01:34:35 sellout-: phew! 01:34:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:35:35 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:35:44 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 01:38:11 wislin: I think you need to use a lot more words to explain your problem, because when you use short sentences with strange grammatatical structure, there are many misunderstandings possible. 01:38:50 *grammatical. 01:39:08 *spiaggia* shouldn't attempt to type without a spell checker this early. 01:40:04 -!- spacemagic [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:40:05 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:41:54 -!- kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:42:06 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 01:43:32 wislin: are you asking how variables are bound, in lisp? 01:44:52 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:45:12 symbole` [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:10 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 01:48:15 jfleming: Yes, I do not understand how variable binding works. And what is different for binding and assign? 01:49:05 binding a variable with 'let' undoes the binding to its prior value when the 'let' exits 01:49:21 (that prior value can be simply unbound, too) 01:49:33 kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:33 assign just assigns it 01:49:51 if you assign to something that's within a 'let' binding scope, that assignment disappears with the binding as well 01:49:55 wislin: Peter Seibel explains it much better than I could, in his book - http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 01:50:09 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:50:14 -!- symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:51:28 'bind' also only means that a variable has a value associated with it 01:51:47 it's not only for 'let' scopes 01:54:13 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 01:55:17 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.133.6] has joined #lisp 01:55:30 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 01:55:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:56:42 Is it meant that the symbol that name a variable points to a memory place that store the value? 01:57:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:57:54 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:57:57 lexical variables & dynamic variables have different storage. If you want more internal details, start with the link jfleming pasted 01:58:04 I just gave a working overview of a common hangup 01:58:58 but all symbols do have a symbol-value slot 01:59:08 that's not used in lexical bindings though 01:59:37 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:59:42 Ok. thanks 02:03:51 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:44 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 02:04:56 pnq [~nick@AC8CFC9D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:12 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:09:09 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|irssi 02:09:10 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:15:19 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 02:15:48 am0c [~am0c@112.149.169.21] has joined #lisp 02:17:11 I feel that lost of conception in common lisp are too abstract to understand. It will be a good thing if there are pictures to display it. 02:18:21 good thing you're not trying to learn haskell then ;) 02:19:34 wislin: For example? 02:19:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@pool-72-81-233-108.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:45 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:20:11 wislin: all you generally have to do is use something a bit, and you'll understand "Ah, that's what they meant" if you didn't up front 02:20:17 -!- perseus` [~perseus@ec2-50-16-101-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:24 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-148-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:36 just trying to learn from reading is much slower to sink in 02:20:51 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-146-61.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:50 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:25:51 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:03 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:26:31 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 02:27:04 lnostdal [~Lars@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:38 wislin: Have you read Land of Lisp? Lots of photos. 02:30:38 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 02:31:50 -!- ec|irssi is now known as ec|detached 02:33:48 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-244-150.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:35:07 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 02:35:45 Such as the eval-when special form. If the special form have be compiled, a result value will get, so no comput process take place in load time. Is this thinking corrected ? 02:36:31 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-19.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:35 wislin: toplevel eval-when is easy to understand. Non-toplevel eval-when is harder. 02:38:49 wislin: Just write a file with three toplevel eval-when, one with each situation, and a body printing a message. Then: (load "file.lisp") RET (defvar *fasl-file* (compile-file "file.lisp")) RET (load *fasl-file*) RET 02:39:11 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:16 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-150-61.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:40:43 nixfreak_ [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:26 -!- TDT [~user@173-23-13-45.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:38 pjb' ' : thanks. 02:41:43 TDT [~user@173-23-13-45.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:51 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:43:59 Phooodus: I have to learn from reading is much slower to sink in. 02:43:59 -!- nixfreak [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:45:11 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:26 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 02:47:22 Phooodus: is that a bot? 02:47:47 -!- xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 02:49:51 -!- kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:53:56 -!- akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:01 akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has joined #lisp 02:54:54 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 02:55:28 sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:18 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:59:17 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:12 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:41 lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has joined #lisp 03:06:01 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.150] has joined #lisp 03:06:44 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.193.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:52 is anybody there 03:07:02 hi 03:07:09 is anybody there 03:07:10 Hi 03:07:16 hi 03:07:22 how are you 03:07:46 I come from China ,learn commonlisp and forth 03:08:10 anybody else ? 03:08:58 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:09:03 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:28 oh ,so bad ,nobody talk to me 03:09:41 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 03:09:44 It helps if you have a specific question or topic 03:10:01 haha ,this is my first time usr IRC 03:10:11 just want to say hello to everybody 03:10:18 Hello then 03:10:43 then I will go to have lunch ,then talk later 03:10:51 see u soon 03:10:59 haha 03:14:43 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:15:05 Jasko [~tjasko@cpe-66-75-114-13.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:38 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.135] has joined #lisp 03:16:39 Hi all! 03:18:34 lisp_forth, from SH? 03:19:24 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:19:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:22:18 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.193.141] has joined #lisp 03:23:22 xiaohao [da0359f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.3.89.248] has joined #lisp 03:27:03 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:29:17 -!- ec|detached is now known as ec|irssi 03:29:36 -!- ec|irssi is now known as ec|detached 03:30:11 splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:30:22 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:32:05 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:34:23 Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #lisp 03:34:32 -!- splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:35:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mhlknlhlzwjqzjbi] has joined #lisp 03:36:55 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:16 I come back ,is everyone eat? 03:38:30 practical LISP is the best book 03:38:31 I from from china , 03:38:38 or any other good book 03:38:46 lisp_forth: great I am from India 03:38:59 ok ,nice to meet you 03:39:17 I just have my lunch over 03:39:34 maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has joined #lisp 03:39:36 lisp_forth: what you recommend a basic started book on LISP 03:40:12 ehm ,a book write by a chinese university professor in chinese words 03:40:18 ok 03:40:23 that is not good 03:40:31 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 03:40:31 I think learning chinese can take a bit of time 03:40:37 ho 03:40:43 there is no chinese language 03:40:47 but good for me 03:40:53 two different languages 03:40:55 right 03:40:58 -!- maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:06 i also read onlisp 03:41:17 onslip? 03:41:20 lisp_forth, which part? 03:41:36 yes 03:41:40 what is onslip 03:41:42 onlisp 03:41:56 a book ? 03:42:07 havenot you read it yer 03:42:38 On Lisp, by Paul Graham? 03:42:43 maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has joined #lisp 03:42:44 yes 03:43:10 -!- maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has quit [Client Quit] 03:43:26 later I will read practical which have translate into chinese ,my english is not so good 03:43:54 maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has joined #lisp 03:44:25 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:44:27 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:45:12 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 03:45:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 03:45:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 03:45:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:46:36 http://paulgraham.com/onlisp.html 03:46:52 good book, freely downloadable from the author 03:47:47 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:47:59 now I still learn forth ,as good as lisp 03:48:24 kencausey: is that good book for starters 03:48:34 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:49:04 It's hard for me to judge, Land of Lisp might be better at this point 03:50:36 land of lisp book name? 03:50:47 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: until next time] 03:50:58 http://landoflisp.com/ 03:51:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 03:52:44 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.212.133.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:59 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.133.6] has joined #lisp 03:53:11 and of course we can't forget Practical Common Lisp: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 03:53:25 tritchey_ 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-!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:09:20 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:09:33 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:33 sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has joined #lisp 04:09:33 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has quit [Changing host] 04:09:33 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 04:09:33 df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:41 TDT [~user@173-23-13-45.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:47 pdlogan [~patrick@75.94.47.26] has joined #lisp 04:09:47 kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:19 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:29 beach: How are you doing, Sir?! 04:14:07 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 04:14:14 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [*.net 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[~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:21:29 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:23:36 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 04:28:15 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:29:29 lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has joined #lisp 04:29:59 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.78] has joined #lisp 04:30:35 nobody talking ? 04:31:12 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.135] has joined #lisp 04:36:04 I'm afraid many of us are in Europe and the Americas 04:36:44 If you want to read some past conversations: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ 04:39:16 there is not company which need lisp ,so bad 04:39:19 in chian 04:39:23 china 04:39:57 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@pool-72-81-233-108.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:40:32 make your own! 04:40:38 what is the salary of lisp wokers in europe and Ameirca ,I want to do in other countries, 04:41:11 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 04:41:30 a bit of chinese softengenir know lisp ,not popuplar program language in china 04:41:32 Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has joined #lisp 04:41:45 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:44:28 A job using CL or Forth is not easy to come by anywhere I'm afraid. antifuchs is right that the best opportunities are those you make yourself. 04:45:06 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 benny [~benny@i577A2417.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.193.34.166] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 obbele [~johan@161.103.84.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 koollman [~samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.41] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 hohum [~dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:12 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:45:42 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:44 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:46:00 I also can use c++ and c 04:46:22 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:47:36 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:48:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:37 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:52 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:50:59 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 04:51:31 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:53:24 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:53:43 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 04:57:02 ok nobody talk ,i go to forth group 04:57:55 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:16 lisp_forth_ [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has joined #lisp 05:04:50 this isn't really a social channel; most of the talk is about lisp coding 05:06:03 and I'd venture that very few people here went to a job interview to get a lisp programming job, if they do lisp coding commercially 05:06:28 many are also students, faculty, and researchers 05:06:41 so there's not going to be much response about the lisp job market 05:08:08 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:24 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.133.6] has joined #lisp 05:08:44 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 05:09:46 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:10:16 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:10:25 AlbinoVagyna [40fba550@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.251.165.80] has joined #lisp 05:11:10 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:37 __class__ __main__ _death _mathrick ``Erik a7p abeaumont acieroid Adrinael Aisling akimbo akkartik albino AlbinoVagyna algorist_ am0c Amadiro amb007 anon antifuchs AntiSpamMeta antoszka aoh aperturefever araujo arbscht ASau Atomsk atomx Axioplase Bahman beach benny bfein Bike billitch billstclair BlankVerse blitz_ bobbysmith007 Bootvis Borbus borism Bucciarati Buganini bzzbzz C-Keen cafesofie CallToPower cataska cbp cch ccl-logbot 05:11:49 Please don't do that. 05:11:52 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o antifuchs 05:12:04 *middle fingers anti* 05:12:06 *Phooodus* does the +b anticipation wait 05:12:22 *gives middle finger to antifuchs* 05:12:23 AlbinoVagyna: are you going to start talking about lisp soon? 05:12:39 yeah: what award winning video game was programmed by lisp? 05:12:55 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13:19 did ratchet & clank win any awards? 05:13:21 (or abuse?) 05:13:31 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:13:35 -!- AlbinoVagyna [40fba550@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.251.165.80] has quit [Client Quit] 05:14:07 "african or european?" 05:14:30 -!- antifuchs has set mode -o antifuchs 05:17:14 -!- Indian [~Indian@unaffiliated/londonmet050] has quit [Quit: Indian] 05:17:55 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:06 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8CFC9D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:19:02 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 05:21:17 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:32 what was that ? 05:25:04 Prophecy has been fulfilled. In the tongue of the ancients, this was called "trolling" 05:27:28 *Phooodus* is a bit loopy/giddy after vanquishing a bug that he's been beating at for days 05:29:36 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 05:33:18 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:33:18 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:34:00 lisp_forth__ [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has joined #lisp 05:35:29 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:37:33 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:34 How many people's job is for lisp in this channel ? 05:37:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:38:51 convulsive [~convulsiv@173-8-150-74-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:52 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:39:55 what is the future of common lisp? 05:40:13 -!- prip [~foo@host72-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:41:01 The future of common lisp is a cycle of expansion, refinement, divergence, and yet another fall from grace. 05:41:23 We're currently in the expansion and refinement stage, as far as I can tell, with a bit of divergence. 05:41:47 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:42:11 More seriously, it has a bright future, but if your question is whether it's going to become "mainstream" like Java, the answer is "almost certainly not." 05:43:18 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:43:38 jfleming: thanks 05:43:42 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:57 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Quit: ariba.] 05:44:13 then again, other languages are converging towards lisp 05:44:34 Phooodus: in much the same way as OSes are converging on Unix. I get to be smug twice over :) 05:44:46 Yes, I also see that. 05:44:51 whether that means lisp will have a shot at mainstream, or some lisp-like becomes the 'mainstream', who knows 05:45:00 jfleming: heh 05:45:54 I sincerely doubt it'll become mainstream; Clojure is the closest it'll get, unless you count Javascript as a half-baked Scheme with a few extra tentacles. 05:46:20 I'm talking about some hypothetical language in a generation or two after the current 05:47:50 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:48:26 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:48:38 wislin: lisp is also the second oldest language still in use today; that's a good hint as to its longevity 05:48:54 lisp is beaut computer language. but it is also very complex. 05:49:16 -!- markymark [~markymark@unaffiliated/markymark] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49:24 lisp is a simple language in essence. Common Lisp is pretty complex :) 05:49:46 That's a good way of putting it. 05:50:01 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yzrawwmvcynnrbji] has joined #lisp 05:50:04 oh 05:50:12 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:38 I meant later. Common lisp is complex. 05:51:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:37 How about lisp for GUI program? 05:52:18 I know lispworks is very good. but is very expensive. 05:52:42 how much is lispworks 05:52:48 there are bindings to common UI libraries, like gtk, tcl/tk, qt, etc 05:53:01 (hmm, not sure about the last one) 05:53:14 yep, that too :) 05:53:23 There's also the mcclim project, to provide an entire X-windows environment. 05:53:52 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-080-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:14 prip [~foo@host233-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:54:36 I have read about CLIM, and find it too pretty to realize. 05:55:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:55:19 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:37 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:57:08 mcclim can not run in windows. 05:57:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 05:58:13 The idea of clim is very pretty. 06:01:40 wislin: what do you mean by "pretty"? 06:02:17 mcclim can run in windows, but is requires an x-server. 06:02:43 Personally, I think the clim is probably better done by extending dhtml with clim concepts. 06:03:02 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:06:08 splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:08:15 yeah, I finally "got" clim's model by realizing its similarities to html 06:08:17 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:09:32 greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has joined #lisp 06:10:19 -!- splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10:33 So, climacs is essentially going to be a rich browser app? 06:11:21 I mean that the idean is very good. 06:11:21 Unlikely, really. 06:11:39 the idea is very good. 06:11:52 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:13:05 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:13:16 -!- maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:15:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-88.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:16:51 jfeming: Do your job for common lisp? 06:17:36 BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-146-147.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:20 -!- lisp_forth_ [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:20 -!- lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:24 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 06:19:04 -!- lisp_forth__ [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:20:12 wislin: I wish. No, I'm a system and network administrator. I just use CL in my own time. 06:20:51 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:20:52 I get to sneak it into work here and there, but only if other people don't have to maintain it, because only two others actually have a clue about it. 06:21:29 oh. 06:22:40 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:22:40 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:40 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:22:40 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:23:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@112.149.169.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:24:47 good habby. 06:24:56 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-146-147.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:24 Good hobby. 06:26:27 masonium` [~user@63.118.209.84] has joined #lisp 06:26:45 -!- masonium [~user@63.118.209.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:11 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:27:18 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:36 how shall I undefine a function in REPL 06:28:07 or redefine it without getting redefinition warning 06:29:43 cch: (fmakunbound 'func) 06:29:56 How long you learn lisp? 06:30:14 jleming: How long you learn lisp? 06:30:25 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:31:20 maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has joined #lisp 06:32:56 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:33:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2417.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:34:07 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 06:34:57 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:35 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:26 am0c [~am0c@112.149.169.21] has joined #lisp 06:38:36 wislin: I've been using it for about 5 years, but haven't spend enough time on it to get really good. Yet. 06:40:08 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:40:13 I've been thinking about clim command loops and http servers. 06:40:15 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-128-72.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:26 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 06:40:35 One thing that I'm doing at the moment is building a virtual http server in the browser window. 06:40:55 Which then allows browser content to be referenced by uri. 06:41:06 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-69.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:41:34 Once you have that, you can then start to deal with ui elements via restful protocol. 06:41:58 Which ends up being a similar idea idea. 06:43:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-19.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:43:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-16.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:54:31 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:57:45 pnq [~nick@AC8CFC07.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:57 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:03 splittist [~splittist@193-56.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:02:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:03:30 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ggekpzeyoheoikwi] has joined #lisp 07:06:31 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:49 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:08:31 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:05 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:12:21 good morning 07:16:42 morning 07:17:10 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-69.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:17:20 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-136-153.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:44 ChrisA132 [ChrisA132@ip68-229-153-41.lf.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:57 -!- ChrisA132 [ChrisA132@ip68-229-153-41.lf.br.cox.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 07:19:55 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-71-152.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:14 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-128-72.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:59 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:22:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-136-153.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:23:20 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-38-12.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:23:32 Hello! I'd like to check if 2 variables are the same type, but I see that (type-of 1) returns Bit instead of integer. How should I write this? (eq (type-of 1) (type-of 5)) won't work :( 07:23:49 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:59 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:24:56 (subtypep)? 07:24:57 redline6` [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:18 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:38 (subtypep (type-of 1) (type-of 5)) gives me T T 07:25:45 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:21 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-78-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:26:21 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:26:31 ,clhs subtypep 07:27:06 no comma in front 07:27:09 clhs subtypep 07:27:14 ok, bot botched ;-/ 07:27:15 ah, thanks 07:27:33 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/fun_subtypep.html 07:30:00 aerique 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[~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:25 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 09:15:09 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:17:17 lichtblau [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:26 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 09:20:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.5.133] has joined #lisp 09:25:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:26:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8CFC07.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:28:08 -!- maus [~maus@58.186.14.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:30:14 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:30:28 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 09:30:46 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.150] has joined #lisp 09:32:15 -!- xiaohao [da0359f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.3.89.248] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:36:05 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mhlknlhlzwjqzjbi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:57 argh 09:37:04 tcr! 09:37:09 -!- greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:25 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:40:41 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:42:30 -!- tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:15 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:07 is there any good arguments against async callbacks as a design choice? 09:44:20 They confuse small children. 09:44:42 and we must always think of the children of course 09:44:54 fork them! 09:45:57 i must be alone in thinking they're not good, or maybe I'm just a small child deep down 09:46:48 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.35.24] has joined #lisp 09:48:28 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:48:34 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:49:42 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:12 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 09:51:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:52:16 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:54:26 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-189-156.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:55:54 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:56:13 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:57:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has joined #lisp 10:01:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:26 greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has joined #lisp 10:04:20 How do weak references work? Does the target store a list of the things pointing to it (so they can be NULLed on gc), or just a generation ID (that gets checked with the weak reference), or what's the trick? 10:08:16 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has left #lisp 10:08:30 flip214: as i understand a typical gc on the most basic level, you start from a set of initial references (e.g. the registers) and follow them until you reach every object you can, and those objects are considered alive. you could treat a weak reference as one the gc does not follow. 10:09:24 *Xach* tries to remember who suggested it be renamed "non-garbage preservation" 10:09:40 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:09:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uhqgkrtnbhawviom] has joined #lisp 10:13:07 xiaohao [79e8932c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.232.147.44] has joined #lisp 10:15:40 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:41 daniel [~daniel@p5082A163.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:10 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A315.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:19:26 atomx` [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 10:20:17 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.193.34.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:57 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:23:36 stis [~stis@host-90-235-96-232.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:38 -!- xiaohao [79e8932c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.232.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:24:37 -!- greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:41 greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has joined #lisp 10:27:49 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:28:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.134.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:18 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.66.185.206] has joined #lisp 10:38:57 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 10:38:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 10:38:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:40:41 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:42:16 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.66.185.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:45:16 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:46:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:46:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:47:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:47:47 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:33 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-96-232.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:49:38 stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-144-247.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:16 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 10:51:39 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:21 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:24 Xach: thanks, but how is the validity of the weak ref. checked? there might be simply a different bit of data now 10:57:12 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.45] has joined #lisp 10:58:40 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-144-247.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:28 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:47 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:06:56 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 11:07:01 Hey im trying to add a record to a table using Postmodern and keep getting a NOT-NULL VIOLATION error.. 11:08:10 im using: "(insert-dao (make-instance 'login-details :username name :password password))" where name and password are strings, can someone tell me what im doing wrong? 11:09:16 what other fields does the table have? what restrictions resp. NULL/NOT NULL? 11:10:13 flip214: there are two columns named "username" and "password" which are set to "text NOT NULL" 11:10:39 and both name and password are not NIL? 11:11:20 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uhqgkrtnbhawviom] has left #lisp 11:12:00 yep i've used (describe *current-user*) to check the values in the username and password slots 11:13:25 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:13:26 is the general syntax right to write to a table? 11:14:04 try a (trace insert-dao) and retry? 11:16:48 the specific error is: "Database error 23502: null value in column "username" violates not-null constraint" 11:17:13 why is my slime-net-coding-system suddenly iso-latin-1-unix? 11:17:18 but the variable definitely is a string 11:17:44 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:25 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.45] has joined #lisp 11:20:34 nikodemus: esrap question (probably silly) - how easy would it be to build a parse tree with productions including the position indices into the parsed string? (Now that I type this out it strikes me that the answer must be 'very easy'.) 11:24:35 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.6.60] has joined #lisp 11:24:44 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:24:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:27:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A5A43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:33:16 splittist: should be very easy indeed -- but needs a small extension 11:33:34 rules don't currently have access to position information 11:33:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:34:40 it should probably be relative to parse start, not string start. (given :start, and in case of future support for streams) 11:35:11 makes sense 11:36:28 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 11:36:45 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 11:37:54 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:41 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@v254-126.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:39:06 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:15 nikodemus annotated #122277 "it's a bug" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122277#1 11:41:28 oh really? 11:42:03 it's really supposed to be October... 11:44:02 BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 11:46:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:46:37 lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has joined #lisp 11:46:54 -!- BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:23 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@v254-126.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:25 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:50:33 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:51:03 -!- splittist [~splittist@193-56.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:53:00 -!- greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:10 greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has joined #lisp 11:55:50 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Quit: be back later] 11:56:14 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:41 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 11:59:42 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:00:52 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:02:23 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:08:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 12:09:58 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:58 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:11:23 Posterdati [~tapioca@host195-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:23 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:29 hi 12:11:48 is there a way to fill a clem matrix during make-instance ? Thanks 12:12:33 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:12:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.39] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 12:15:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:19 Is there a way to make SBCL understand cdr-functions with any number of "d" without modifying it's source? 12:19:48 naryl: install a readmacro on c? 12:19:53 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.150] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:19:56 :D 12:20:02 Thanks! 12:20:24 i don't think that will be practical, though. 12:20:36 -!- lisp_forth [79ea1375@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.234.19.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:42 it doesn't sound like a very practical exercise in the first place, so that might be ok 12:21:20 naryl: how do you determine the number of d's you'll want in your code? 12:21:31 naryl: and why not use NTHCDR directly? 12:21:32 sounds downright brucian 12:22:04 Easy! You just hold down 'd' for N seconds. (cddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddr ...) 12:22:23 jdz: It's just an exercise for a guy who is learning lisp and likes to hack. 12:22:32 naryl: oh, the java guy? 12:22:37 yes 12:23:00 where did he get the exercise? 12:23:01 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:08 I just made it up. 12:23:20 Just wasn't sure if it's solvable so I asked here. 12:23:22 pinterface: what are you, a vim user? in emacs you do C-10 d 12:23:27 you made up an exercise you don't know a solution to yourself? 12:23:37 i10d 12:23:46 ... 12:23:51 10id 12:24:02 vim is still bad, don't try your logic to prove me wrong! 12:24:20 M-1 M-0 d 12:24:42 -!- greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:24:55 one less keystroke 12:24:55 jdz: that's the same as C-1 0 d 12:25:41 stassats: yes, except pressing 1 and control simultaneously for me is harder than holding down the meta key 12:26:01 ltriant [~ltriant@124.168.124.243] has joined #lisp 12:26:13 but you need to press it only once, all other digits will be without C- 12:26:26 stassats: i also press meta once 12:26:36 no, you press it always! 12:26:44 no i don't 12:26:48 no you do! 12:26:58 y u no listen!? 12:29:24 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:30:34 Poor C-u, no love. 12:32:08 naryl: did you friend go with CUSP 12:32:23 your* 12:32:50 He went with LW. :) 12:33:13 hooray for sanity 12:33:19 inded 12:33:30 Guthur: i fixed that defpackage issue last night 12:33:55 stassats: cool, it's a nice feature 12:34:04 there remains still an issue when you have (:export) as the first clause 12:35:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:06 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.35.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:37 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 12:37:33 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:50 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@2001:470:1f0e:bfa::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:39:02 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:39:53 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:41:24 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:56 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]] 12:42:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-88.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:56 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 12:43:57 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-202-029.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:33 greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has joined #lisp 12:45:40 -!- convulsive [~convulsiv@173-8-150-74-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:26 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:47:35 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:48:26 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:49:16 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:45 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:54:37 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 12:55:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:35 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:53 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:08 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:58:11 madrik [~madrik@122.168.242.115] has joined #lisp 12:59:36 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:00:21 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:01:55 can someone pls tell me how to define a global boolean variable? 13:02:13 i.e. true or false 13:02:21 (defvar *var* t) 13:02:25 (defvar *var* nil) 13:02:34 k thanks 13:02:58 clhs defvar 13:03:12 http://l1sp.org/cl/defvar 13:03:23 Thanks. 13:04:00 Stop playing with me. I am not a toy. 13:05:18 bit of a newbie question but i haven't had to deal with it earlier: if i put a (declaim (optimize (speed 3))) in the first file (package.lisp) loaded by asdf, will it carry over to the rest of the loaded files 13:05:49 aerique: nobody knows 13:06:21 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 13:06:49 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:08:53 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 13:09:44 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124.168.124.243] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 13:10:27 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:59 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.129.218.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:13:43 aerique: i once thought that the extent of DECLAIM is till the end of current file, and the extent of PROCLAIM indefinite, but since then have been proven wrong 13:14:12 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:34 jdz: alright, thanks. i'll just test what it does for my implementation 13:14:38 benny [~benny@i577A3BC5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:15:43 aerique: the discussion was on october 05 last year, if you care to check the logs 13:15:54 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:15:54 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:20 TristamWrk [8071f149@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.113.241.73] has joined #lisp 13:17:12 aerique: also, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/655201 13:18:41 Anyone happen to have lhstats.lisp? 13:19:15 Xach: i should not even try to answer the question if i don't know what that file is, right? 13:20:05 jmbr [~jmbr@115.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:20:10 You should still try. 13:20:36 locate did not turn up anything 13:21:05 jdz: thanks again 13:21:27 Google appears to have a cached copy of it. 13:21:39 Xach: google told me why you're asking, though. 13:22:03 Google Fatigue 13:22:10 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:22:38 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:30 Good morning. 13:24:19 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:24:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:25:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:26:05 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has joined #lisp 13:26:05 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has quit [Changing host] 13:26:05 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:26:56 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:15 hi,i want to write byte to standard-output,but it seems that the *standard-output* is open as a character stream,can i reopen it as a (unsigned-byte 8) ? 13:28:28 cfy: you can write (code-char your-byte-here) 13:28:45 cfy: what are you really trying to do? 13:28:51 Why do you want to write a byte to *standard-output*? 13:29:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Quit: be back later] 13:30:10 jdz: do you mean (write-char (code-char 15) *standard-output*) ?bu it output #\si not the binary 15 13:30:31 Xach: i want output binary data to stdout 13:30:41 cfy: Why? 13:31:05 <_3b> i think clisp will let you set the external format, and sbcl might be bivalent by default, dunno about other lisps 13:31:29 cfy: what do you mean it does not output binary 15? 13:31:42 jdz: perhaps he is looking at the return value. 13:31:51 cfy: if you output (code-char 15) to a text stream, and check the file with a hex editor, what do you see? 13:31:56 cfy: #\si and 15 are equivalent and that might be enough for your purposes 13:32:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:33:07 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:33:57 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:15 *cfy* pasted "write binary" at http://paste2.org/get/1437258 13:34:37 i want something like this http://paste2.org/get/1437258,but i want to write it to standard output,not a file 13:35:09 cfy: why? 13:35:09 i just don't know how to (re)open standard output 13:35:24 <_3b> cfy: which lisp? 13:35:38 _3b: does it matter ? sbcl or clisp 13:36:17 Xach: i just want to try if i can do that 13:36:24 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.111.232.25] has joined #lisp 13:37:06 cfy: (write-char (char-code 15) *standard-output*) should do it 13:37:15 cfy: why do you think it's not working? 13:37:40 cfy: You can open /dev/stdout if you like. 13:37:41 jdz: The value 15 is not of type CHARACTER. 13:37:45 *_3b* still thinks you should be able to just write0byte to *standard-output* on sbcl (without slime) 13:37:49 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 Xach: oh,thanks 13:38:01 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:20 jdz: it doesn't allow to write byte to a character stream? 13:38:56 cyf: Did you figure out why you want to do this, yet? 13:38:59 *_3b* can't find anything in the docs about *standard-output* being bivalent though 13:39:51 cfy: if you write (code-char 15), you are not writing a byte, but a character (code of which is 15, if you look at it in binary) 13:41:24 Zhivago: if i can (re)open the standout as a binary stearm,then i can pass the datas to the pipo 13:41:35 *_3b* wonders if nobody uses unix or something, binary on std/stdout doesn't seem that odd to me 13:42:09 cfy: That doesn't answer 'why'. 13:42:17 cfy: What actual problem are you trying to solve here? 13:42:33 _3b: I know why, and how, I might want to do it. 13:42:51 <_3b> http://www.gnu.org/software/clisp/impnotes/stream-eltype.html and the next page talk about that sort of thing on clisp 13:43:10 There are probably a number of perfectly reasonable solutions, but without knowing the problem you're trying to solve it is hard to suggest one of them. 13:43:54 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:09 Zhivago: some one asks how to parse a '00001111' as a number written in base 2,then output it (binary) 13:44:40 Zhivago: then i want to show him the code written by lisp :) but i found i can't output to standoutput 13:44:48 Why do you want to output that to *standard-output*? 13:45:02 (format t "~B" 15)? 13:45:05 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:45:15 It sounds like there isn't actually a problem here. 13:45:16 Zhivago: then i can see the data with |hexdump -C 13:45:28 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:29 Just open a file in binary mode and write to it. 13:45:38 /dev/stdout is available if you want that. 13:46:13 Katibe [~Katibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 But writing bytes to *standard-output* doesn't make sense. 13:47:02 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:14 It makes sense to me. 13:47:34 ChibaPet: how often do you do it? 13:47:54 Last time I did it was with a rate limiter, a couple years ago. Wasn't Lisp though. 13:48:14 But you still used CL:*STANDARD-OUTPUT*? 13:48:17 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:18 I'm not sure if the contention is that Lisp has a better way to emit arbitrarily formatted data. 13:48:21 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:30 No - is there a special quality of that that makes the idea silly? 13:48:58 I'm surprised by the vehemence and I suspect there's something interesting underlying it. :) 13:49:00 ChibaPet: yes, standard output is supposed to be readable by human beings (at least that's what i think) 13:49:50 Hm. 13:50:32 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:43 <_3b> *terminal-io* sounds more like a 'for humans' stream, *standard-output* is just the 'default if nothing else specified' stream 13:50:52 We're talking about something terminal-oriented, where the terminal in question likely comes from an environment where building tools via piping is a standard operation. Hence, wondering if it's simply the case that people don't use Lisp for little pieces of bigger piped tools. 13:51:37 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-171-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:58 morning 13:52:58 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-71-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:53:02 o/ 13:53:12 ChibaPet: i build tools via piping: i apply functions to lists to transform them. 13:53:31 interprocess, though 13:53:34 ChibaPet: and my terminal is my repl 13:53:44 ChibaPet: i have inter-function 13:54:20 Safe to assume everyone in here is smart, and hence really does understand what cfy wants to do. 13:54:28 Spion_ [~spion@46.217.23.247] has joined #lisp 13:54:30 -!- Spion_ [~spion@46.217.23.247] has quit [Changing host] 13:54:30 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:54:42 ChibaPet: i told him what to do in the first response. 13:54:53 ChibaPet: apparently it's not what he wants. 13:54:57 hm 13:55:00 (code-char your-byte-here) ? 13:55:04 yes 13:55:29 *_3b* hopes you don't want to write any bytes over 127 or so 13:55:44 ChibaPet: cfy apparently wants to impress someone who doesn't know lisp by demonstrating that he's not the only one. 13:55:52 his response seemed to indicate that he tried it but didn't see expected behaviour 13:56:12 probably because hi did not observe the behaviour, but his preconceptions 13:56:16 s/hi/he 13:56:22 Well, *my* angle is finding out what the Lispy canon is for doing this sort of thing. :) 13:56:51 <_3b> 'Lispy' probably involves not leaving the image in the first place :p 13:57:12 use bivalent stream where available, or the '/dev/stdout' or convert every byte to a character 13:57:29 -!- madrik [~madrik@122.168.242.115] has left #lisp 13:57:34 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58:13 My last question, then - how does writing to /dev/stdout differ from *standard-output*? 13:58:52 <_3b> it makes the buffering situation more complicated? 13:58:52 ChibaPet: you can specify what element type you want when opening /dev/stdout, *standard-output* is already open (with an element type already set) 13:58:53 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:07 ChibaPet: but that really is a hack 13:59:08 Ah! 13:59:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.111.232.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:20 It explains it, though. Thank you. 13:59:39 jrockway [~jrockway@2001:470:1f0e:bfa::2] has joined #lisp 14:00:01 <_3b> does /dev/stdout get redirected when stdout is redirected? 14:00:06 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yzrawwmvcynnrbji] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01:35 i'm pretty sure it does. 14:01:59 juhan [~juhan@109.188.180.218] has joined #lisp 14:02:07 -!- juhan [~juhan@109.188.180.218] has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:07 that file is under the control of the kernel 14:02:21 that's not really a file, even 14:02:24 yakov [~yakov@109.188.180.218] has joined #lisp 14:02:52 hey 14:03:27 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:31 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:03:31 what is the custom to write #:PACKAGE-NAME instead of :PACKAGE-NAME? i've noticed it in several open source libraries. 14:03:34 thanks everyone, i use clisp -norc -q -x '(with-open-file (output "/dev/stdout" :direction :output :element-type `(unsigned-byte 8)) (write-byte 15 output))'|hexdump -C 14:03:41 also, what is the difference 14:04:03 i don't remember seeing such things in paip or cltl 14:04:04 did anybody ever see csp.tgz by Roger Peppe from which Calispel and ChanL are said to be derived? 14:04:11 <_3b> #:foo creates a symbol that isn't interned, :foo creates a symbol interneed in the KEYWORD package 14:04:16 _3b: it's (a symlink to) a magical file, the effect of opening which is identical to dup(stdout) 14:04:30 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 14:04:31 <_3b> for symbols that are only being used for their names (as in this case) some people prefer not to intern them 14:05:14 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 14:05:45 <_3b> (among other things, interning symbols you don't intend to use again clutters symbol completion in editors) 14:07:58 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 14:09:33 thanks _3b 14:09:42 such a purists habit :-) 14:10:20 clisp -norc -q -x '(with-open-file (output "/dev/stderr" :direction :output :element-type `(unsigned-byte 8)) (write-byte 15 output))' >/dev/null 2>&1 |hexdump -C 14:10:50 i don't know why the "15\n" is still appear 14:10:52 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 14:11:15 how can i just output 15 in binary ? 14:11:28 try a (values) as last form 14:11:50 perhaps 15 is just the return value of write-byte 14:11:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.111.232.25] has joined #lisp 14:12:03 funny to see #:cl things. afaiu :cl is interned already anyway 14:12:05 flip214: yes,it is 14:13:03 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:13:31 flip214: can i discard the return value ? 14:13:32 yakov: it's mostly pointless for package names, but very good for export lists 14:13:54 -!- TristamWrk [8071f149@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.113.241.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:13 aha, i see. a way to write #:my-fun instead of "MY-FUN" ? 14:14:21 for export list. 14:14:24 it's /nice/ to have package names in the keyword package. it makes completion a lot less useful if bunch of random symbols are interned in cl-user of wherever the defpackage form happens to happen in 14:14:24 nikodemus_: Why mostly pointless for package names? 14:14:41 Is it nice to have package names in the keyword package? Why? 14:14:45 flip214: clisp -norc -q -x '(setf *standard-output* (open "/dev/null" :direction :output))(with-open-file (output "/dev/stdout" :direction :output :element-type `(unsigned-byte 8)) (write-byte 15 output))'|hexdump -C 14:15:02 flip214: it seems to solve the problem :) 14:15:07 it's nice because then :hu.dwim.something as available for symbol completion 14:15:16 damg [~damg@p54ADAD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:28 nikodemus_: do you find yourself writing :hu.dwim.something often? 14:15:33 cfy: didn't see any commandline parameter - just use (values) 14:15:47 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-152-181.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:53 *_3b* votes to just make the completion code recognize contexts where packages are valid, and specifically get a list of those directly :) 14:16:11 :-) 14:16:13 flip214: oh 14:16:36 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c689.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:53 hi 14:17:04 i have a small moment of pleasure whenever i fuzzy complete a package name as a keyword. does it matter much? no. i'd much rather give that up than deal with too-polluted keyword package or cl-user 14:17:26 _3b: that sounds nice. 14:17:30 _3b: i approve 14:17:34 is there an easy way to get subsecond timings in sbcl? (get-universal-time) gives "only" seconds 14:17:42 prxq: get-internal-real-time perhaps. 14:17:47 prxq: get-time-of-day 14:18:01 prxq: get-internal-real-time is a portable mechanism, but its resolution is not specified. 14:18:11 ah.... thanks 14:18:11 (it can be easily determined in a specified way, though) 14:18:47 *Xach* wonders what implementation had the smallest internal-time-units-per-second 14:18:48 prxq: depending on what you are doing, you might also want to check out call-with-timing(s?) 14:18:49 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:11 (it's a functional interface to all the things TIME reports) 14:20:04 fantastic. didn't know that existed. thanks again 14:20:27 <_3b> Xach: 1000000 on ccl 14:20:50 <_3b> though i guess that could be 'largest' 14:20:54 please help, any clem user here? 14:22:22 I need a way to assign initial values to a matrix/array without to use mref to fill it 14:22:48 *_3b* suspects that 'smallest value for that variable' isn't as useful, since may probably don't actually report values to that precision anyway 14:23:19 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:24 _3b: I'm wondering if any implementation ever used something uselessly small like 1 14:24:10 <_3b> of the others i have installed at the moment, clisp is 1000000, rest are 1000 14:24:30 mydik [~qle@74.92.196.145] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 <_3b> according to google, guile uses 100, ans star sapphire common lisp uses the not-very-conformat-looking 18.206491 14:27:57 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:28:16 _3b: that's a Timer-chip specifica, like in DOS times 14:28:31 <_3b> right, reasonable value, but not an integer 14:31:17 that used to be the value on old xt systems, i think. I mean 8086 based systems. 14:31:18 IIRC that's because of 4.77MHz (CPU clock) divided in a 4x65536 counter gives these 18.2 Hz 14:31:40 exactly :-) 14:31:42 -!- damg [~damg@p54ADAD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:32:55 slyrus: hi 14:34:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DBED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:24 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:35:37 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 14:35:40 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:35:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:35:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:36:12 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-108-6.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:37:14 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:37:32 -!- mydik [~qle@74.92.196.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:13 hey Posterdati 14:38:17 sykopomp, ? 14:38:47 :initial-element ? 14:39:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.111.232.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:39:07 or are you looking for an :initial-contents like thing? 14:39:35 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:59 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:07 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:44:10 -!- greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:27 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:44:44 is there anybody who can help me with chunga please ? I'm trying the following http://paste.lisp.org/display/122281 but it doesn't work 14:45:08 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:45:52 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:52 kiuma: what are you ultimately trying to do? 14:46:24 make a stream chunked! 14:46:34 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:46:55 kiuma: Just for fun? 14:46:56 a chunky stream sounds...unsanitary 14:47:29 having something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunked_transfer_encoding#Encoded response 14:47:34 *Xach* wonders how to frame the question so people answer it with useful information rather than simply restating the low-level goal of the immediate code 14:47:41 (the body part) 14:48:04 I'm writing an http server 14:48:25 kiuma: i'm pretty sure chunking needs to interact with HTTP, you can't just take an arbitrary stream and make it chunking 14:49:00 -!- yakov [~yakov@109.188.180.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:15 kiuma: I suspect chunga expects the stream you are providing to it to have valid syntax for the encoding. 14:49:36 it was my suspect too 14:49:46 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:49:46 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:50:02 my server is event based (with iolib) anyway. 14:50:16 kiuma: What do you think your code is supposed to do? 14:50:23 kiuma: What did you expect to get? 14:51:51 Are you hoping to go from a vector of binary data to a new vector with the correct syntax for a chunked response? 14:52:03 well, even if I haven't seen where to set the max chunk size for a stream, I thought to see something like [HEX-size]\r\naaaaaaa.... 14:52:19 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:52:21 and then 0\r\n 14:52:36 for last closing chunk 14:52:51 kiuma: "see" it? 14:52:59 in hex form :) 14:53:03 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:25 slyrus: could you help me with clem? 14:53:32 Xach, the example code was only to show me what was insight 14:53:43 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 14:53:45 slyrus: yes 14:53:54 kiuma: I don't understand what you wrote. 14:54:02 just now, that is. 14:54:42 slyrus: there's no docs for clem on your site or tinaa 14:54:48 "see" = see how chunga was streamed out 14:55:11 *my ghunga(ed) stream 14:55:13 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:55:14 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:29 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:02 slyrus: then what is the :initial-contents form? 15:01:10 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:02:07 slyrus: ? 15:02:59 is core magic number dependent only on SBCL version? 15:03:11 hey Posterdati, are you trying to make-instance a matrix? 15:03:17 I have two sbcls on my computer and they both can't load a core that definetely must have been made by one of them 15:03:18 slyrus: yes 15:03:31 there is no initial-contents :( 15:03:36 you can use array->matrix though 15:03:38 slyrus: I've to create an array of sampled values 15:04:03 slyrus: #(1 2 3 4 5) 15:04:13 kiuma: I annotated with a working example. It doesn't write the trailing octets #(48 13 10) though; not sure if chunga will do that. 15:04:27 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [] 15:04:52 ok. I should add :initial-contents, but I haven't been using clem much now that opticl doesn't use it (as ch-image did) 15:05:20 thanks Xach 15:06:25 slyrus: :) thanks 15:06:36 wislin [~user@220.166.1.217] has joined #lisp 15:06:36 did array->matrix work? 15:06:41 yes 15:07:01 but I heavy rely on clem for my project :) 15:07:04 gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:11 great. feel free to ape the initial-contents stuff out of opticl and add it to clem and send a patch :) 15:07:20 -!- gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 15:07:27 otherwise, maybe I can do so this weekend 15:07:30 did you use LU for matrix-inverse? 15:08:01 ah, it seems that magic number is affected by the executability of core 15:09:33 slyrus: I'm writing a cubic-spline interpolation software for Reluctance calculations in magnetic circuits 15:11:33 Posterdati: gauss-jordan, I think 15:11:41 ok 15:12:23 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:39 slyrus: no double-float-array 15:12:54 huh? 15:13:15 double-float-matrix? 15:13:17 slyrus: (make-instance 'double-float-matrix :rows 10) 15:13:24 slyrus: is it an array? 15:13:35 I always used a n x 1 matrix 15:14:01 no, it's a matrix 15:14:33 but array->matrix return a matrix of dimension n 15:14:39 not n x 1 15:15:08 that's correct 15:15:14 ok 15:15:38 but how can I create such vector with make-instance? 15:15:48 what la package are you using? 15:17:00 clem 15:17:06 Posterdati: you want your array->matrix and make-instance'd matrix arrays to be congruent? 15:17:19 yes 15:17:30 would be fine 15:17:49 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:18:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 15:18:27 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.212.6.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:31 Posterdati: hmm... yes, that can be done, but i don't remember the incantation and have to leave for work. happy to help later though. 15:18:45 thanks to you 15:19:22 slyrus: anyway (make-instance 'double-float-matrix :rows 10) creates a vector as array->matrix did 15:20:38 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:27:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.211.187] has joined #lisp 15:29:33 pnq [~nick@ACA2AA73.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:42 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-71.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:52 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 15:30:40 -!- masonium` [~user@63.118.209.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:47 slyrus: not working with one dimension matrix 15:30:59 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-152-181.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:33 Yuzu-_ [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:31:40 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:33:14 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-184-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:43 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:43 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:54 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:44 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:25 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:41:31 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43:05 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:43:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:45:08 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 15:50:26 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 15:50:28 -!- Yuzu-_ is now known as Yuzu- 15:50:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:52:22 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-101-97.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:29 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:03 slyrus: anyway (make-instance 'double-float-matrix :rows 10) is not working! :) 15:53:04 -!- micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:02 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-71.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:56:49 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:59:49 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:00:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:02:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:00 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-16.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:28 suncica2222 [dfgfdgdfgd@P1-121.internet.krstarica.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:31 Posterdati: how many columns? 16:06:32 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:02 -!- nixfreak_ [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:07:41 Is it somehow possible to setf the result of an assoc query? I want to modify one of the pairs in my associative list, but (setf (assoc 1 '((1 . 2) (2 . 4))) 3) doesn't work 16:08:13 Munksgaard: (setf (cdr (assoc 1 '((1 . 2) (2 . 4)))) 3) 16:08:29 Munksgaard: the problem of course is that this is illegal, since you're modifying a literal data. 16:08:43 Munksgaard: (setf (cdr (assoc 1 (list (cons 1 2) (cons 2 4)))) 3) 16:08:59 Munksgaard: now, the question of course, is what happens when there is no association: 16:09:04 (setf (cdr (assoc 42 (list (cons 1 2) (cons 2 4)))) 3) 16:09:04 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:18 It breaks because (cdr nil) is immutable. 16:10:25 -!- suncica2222 [dfgfdgdfgd@P1-121.internet.krstarica.com] has left #lisp 16:10:27 It would be possible to write a setter that would modify the a-list place in such a case (somewhat technical, using get-setf-expansion). 16:11:18 (or (assoc key a-list) (first (push (cons key nil) alist))) ;) 16:11:32 pjb: If i've defined (defparameter testvar '((1 . 2) (2 . 4))), then it's okay to say (setf (cdr (assoc 1 testvar)) 3) right? 16:12:30 <|3b|> Munksgaard: no 16:12:43 No, this is still a literal data. 16:12:47 <|3b|> Munksgaard: and put ** on the names of special variables like testvar 16:13:02 |3b|: will do 16:13:03 (defparameter *test* (acons 1 2 (acons 2 4 '()))) 16:13:36 pjb: Isn't that just a formality? i thought the reader transformed '((1 . 2) (2 . 4)) into exactly that? 16:13:40 (defparameter *test* (mapcar (function cons) '(1 2) '(2 4))) 16:13:50 Sorry, your matrix is its own transposed... 16:14:09 <|3b|> or (copy-alist '...) 16:14:25 Munksgaard: the reader transforms '((1 . 2) (2 . 4)) into (quote ((1 . 2) (2 . 4))) which returns the very same ((1 . 2) (2 . 4)) it contains. 16:14:30 No copy at all. 16:14:51 <|3b|> anything returned by QUOTE should be treated as read-only... it could be shared with other code, or even the source, or stored in read-only memory 16:14:59 -!- wislin [~user@220.166.1.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:52 Yes, (copy-alist '((1 . 2) (2 . 4))) is probably the best in this case. 16:15:53 -!- Yuzu- is now known as Yuzuchan 16:18:18 entrix [~entrix@93-80-53-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:19:51 - 16:22:58 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-kxktywynquvxljuj] has joined #lisp 16:23:23 pjb: ah yes, i see now... http://paste.lisp.org/display/122286 somehow i thought passing a an argument to a function was copy-on-~write or something 16:23:54 nixfreak [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:59 HG` [~HG@p579F7151.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:11 oops, little spelling error, testfun instead of tesfun in the last line 16:24:38 didn't know there is a lisp translator in GNU Hurd 16:26:37 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:09 a lisp translator? 16:27:29 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:27:49 Lisp was originally supposed to be the language Hurd used, wasn't it? 16:28:30 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ggekpzeyoheoikwi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:19 Bike: not Hurd, GNU 16:29:36 the OS is called GNU, actually. Hurd is part of it 16:29:45 Oh, well, that, then. 16:30:05 I mean the translators and all. I know somebody made CL bindings. 16:30:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-kxktywynquvxljuj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:14 but GNU tools arent very lispy? 16:30:52 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-sldgxisqldnmosst] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@217.66.160.18] has joined #lisp 16:34:57 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:36:32 -!- pen [u854@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vpmqpkwsiiyacatu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:38:24 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-108-6.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:22 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 16:41:16 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.46.46.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:44:30 gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:43 -!- gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 16:46:45 urandom__: to improve user acceptance, GNU was designed as a unix-like. 16:47:10 urandom__: Only users of emacs benefit from the GNU Lisp Machine-like environment. 16:47:16 somewhat. 16:48:37 Lisp Machine-like environment? 16:49:17 damg [~damg@p54ADAD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:00 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:51:03 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:57 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-128-62.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:47 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:56:47 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-101-97.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:19 somewhat. 16:58:31 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:58:36 -!- damg [~damg@p54ADAD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:55 What is the proper way to find the pathname of a data file, so that it can be read? Assume the data file is listed in an ASD file, so it's an ASDF component. 17:00:03 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:00:07 leo2007 [~leo@th041145.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 17:00:42 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:00:46 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00:47 reb: one way is (asdf:system-relative-pathname system-name relative-pathname) 17:01:00 yes, that's one way. 17:01:04 *|3b|* would guess asdf:system-relative-pathname or asdf:component-pathname 17:01:37 mbrezu [~user@178.156.179.144] has joined #lisp 17:01:51 An alternative is (component-pathname (find-component 'baz '("foo" "bar"))) 17:02:01 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:01 I'm curious to know which is better. 17:02:12 -!- mbrezu [~user@178.156.179.144] has left #lisp 17:02:27 ... for some definition of "better". 17:03:13 The definition of better is "what Xach would use", so asdf:system-relative-pathname wins! 17:03:39 Excellent! Thanks! 17:04:44 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:35 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:45 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:07 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 17:19:29 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-yedoyfeszsltolyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:23:09 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:24:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.211.187] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082A163.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- r11t [~himanshu@li109-137.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- operative [~null@adsl-70-234-134-35.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- dboswell [~user@64.55.42.6] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:14 -!- ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:15 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:15 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:15 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:15 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:15 -!- oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:24:15 -!- pp206 [pierre@sd-6391.dedibox.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:25:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.211.187] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 daniel [~daniel@p5082A163.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 r11t [~himanshu@li109-137.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 operative [~null@adsl-70-234-134-35.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 dboswell [~user@64.55.42.6] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has joined #lisp 17:25:09 pp206 [pierre@sd-6391.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:25:18 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:25:30 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 17:26:29 -!- Yuzuchan [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:27:57 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:30:08 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:30:17 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-30-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:27 gigamonkey: hi 17:30:39 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:42 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-69.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:48 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:27 Yo Posterdati 17:35:39 how are you ? 17:35:51 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:07 damg [~damg@p54ADAD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:43:09 Goodish. 17:43:15 Yourself? 17:44:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.211.187] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:49:41 nikodemus: you around? 17:50:13 any sbcl users around? 17:50:19 me 17:50:26 I also use sbcl. 17:50:41 wtf why is fold not in the core lib of scheme 17:50:47 bugQ: Wrong channel. 17:51:01 le sigh 17:51:03 Xach: you wrote quicklisp? 17:51:07 sbryant_work: I did. 17:51:19 I am having some weird ass problems on an ubuntu 10.04 box 17:51:27 i <3 quicklisp 17:51:28 bugQ: that's because additing it in the core lib would make it less pedagogical. 17:51:29 atal error encountered in SBCL pid 6916(tid 140737354077952): 17:51:30 Trapping to run pending handler while GC in progress. 17:51:33 and i <3 you xach 17:51:33 Sorry, I can only help with Lisp problems, not ass problems. 17:51:40 bugQ: when there's no fold, you can ask students to implement it. 17:52:07 sbryant_work: that is pretty wacky. what are you doing when that happens? 17:52:08 actually I just found it exists as "foldl" 17:52:28 (load "/tmp/quicklisp.lisp") 17:52:39 sbryant_work: just that? 17:53:10 yep 17:53:14 getting you a paste of all output 17:53:20 It's an EC2 box 17:53:24 sbryant_work: Sounds like your sbcl installation is broken. Where did you get it? 17:53:31 Ah. 17:53:38 it's a .48 binary snapshot 17:53:42 sbryant_work pasted "quicklisp load" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122288 17:53:43 enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has joined #lisp 17:53:43 Anyone here a working mathematician? 17:53:50 Hmm, I've used EC2 with Ubuntu 10.04 and SBCL without any trouble. 17:53:52 But the same code ran fine in my virtualbox lcaoly :( 17:53:58 locally, too. 17:54:20 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:54:48 gigamonkey: err, no, but ask anyway ? 17:55:24 I'm a working math tutor up to calc iii... 17:55:25 Let's see if a giga disfunctional mathematicians can compete with a working one. 17:55:33 Xach: cleared my cache and now it worked o.O 17:56:07 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:12 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:43 I'm wondering about the proof-reading behavior of mathematicians and how it relates to the code-reading behavior of programmers. 17:56:46 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:56:46 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 17:57:06 I asked in #not-math the other day but figured perhaps some folks here straddle the two worlds. 17:57:09 gigamonkey: indeed, it should be quite similar. 17:57:31 Xach: I spoke too soon. 17:57:53 pjb: I was thinking that perhaps mathematicans would be more likely to read proofs for fun, edification, etc. since proofs really are written to convey something to another human being. 17:58:20 gigamonkey: programs too. 17:58:25 pjb: sometimes. ;-) 17:58:39 I really read voluntarily programs when I want to learn an algorithm... 17:58:45 +only 17:58:57 Actually, after talking with the math guys, I suspect you're right. Seems like they don't read proofs that often unless they have to. 17:59:04 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:59:25 It's just too much work unless you have some particular payoff in mind. 17:59:33 Programs are proofs, after all, at least in some sense... 17:59:48 By contrast, I'm pretty sure novelists actually read other peoples' novels for fun. 18:00:01 I assume proofs are nicer to read because they are generally typeset, whereas program presentation has devolved to universal fixed-width... 18:00:39 (But I see in the time it took me to type that we have moved on (: ) 18:00:40 giga, my exp is the same 18:00:41 And foremost, both in writing and reading proofs, they skip over details, noting only the high level proof structure. Hand written proofs are more like proofs sketches. 18:00:54 ^ 18:01:30 splittist: that's why mathematician program in literal programming style with TeX. 18:01:34 splittist: The one typographical feature I think would improve my programs' presentation more than anything is the ability to insert a half-height blank line. 18:02:07 I constantly find myself inserting and deleting blank lines in places where I want a bit of separation between two sections of code but then a whole blank line is too much. 18:02:17 gigamonkey: yes, I usually insert two empty lines between functions, and sometimes one line inside functions. 18:03:21 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-184-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:38 gigamonkey: Novelists also read other writers' novels in order to learn their techniques. Two distinct modes of reading. 18:03:42 gigamonkey: now you can insert fleurons! 18:03:49 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has joined #lisp 18:04:06 *stassats* prefers to keep his functions short instead 18:04:14 that would be more architecturally sound (i.e. markup-ish) as a heirarchical division of code blocks like html's

vs.
18:04:42 but should be simple to do in latex 18:05:09 reb: Sure. But programmers (in my experience) only do the learning techniques kind of reading. 18:05:20 sort is destructive. fantastic 18:05:34 stassats: this happens to me even in quite short functions. 18:05:58 i read programs because they have bugs and i need to fix them 18:06:14 stassats: yes. that's the main reason. 18:06:18 I suspect. 18:06:41 I read euclid sometimes to look for inconsistencies >:) 18:07:02 gigamonkey: hmmm, I've read AMOP a few times cover to cover. After a while you read it more to experience the beauty than to actually learn something. 18:07:29 reb: though that's not just code, right? There's a whole book explaining what's going on. 18:07:39 yes 18:07:50 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:07:59 ... but much of the coolness is in the code. 18:08:32 But still, when you read programs, you don't read them the same when you want to have an overview of the features and functionalities, when you want to debug it, or when you want to understand an algorithm. 18:09:14 I read code because I want to feel better about myself. "Hah! Look at this newbie processing HTML with regular expressions!" 18:09:45 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-hoahrbmhadxuteca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:53 ... I've done that 18:09:54 It's not "code as literature" it's "code as schadenfreude"! 18:10:12 Sometimes source code can have comical attributes, and be read for that. eg. on the daily WTF. 18:10:33 used perl on crontab to scrape a comics site free of ads and email it to me 18:10:40 satirical source code. 18:11:01 (and sometimes even not derisively, I've seen a couple of expressions doing real work, that were just real fun). 18:11:04 My experience is that the only way I can really understand a piece of code involves a process that ends with me rewriting it. 18:11:24 wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:36 gigamonkey: read Godel, Escher, Bach by Hofstadler 18:11:44 gigamonkey: this is true too. 18:12:05 *|3b|* finds rewriting code to be a good way to understand the problem domain better, which helps understand the code 18:12:07 Posterdati: I've tried. Though it was a long time ago. Someday I'll try again. 18:12:14 gigamonkey: lol 18:12:21 gigamonkey: strange book 18:12:41 |3b|: that's true. Once I'm done I can usually understand the original code. But I usually still think it's crap. 18:12:59 decent book but all I got out of it is that meta isn't meta-meta 18:13:04 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.219.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:10 I'd be curious to do some A/B testing where I give the original to some folks and my version to others and see if I've actually made it more understandable to anyone but me. 18:13:24 <|3b|> gigamonkey: yeah, but that's true of most code whether you understand it or not :) 18:13:28 gigamonkey: lol 18:13:44 gigamonkey: don't look at me 18:15:56 Xach: btw, aren't you glad you now know the word 'fleuron'? 18:16:25 bugQ: heh, my only Perl script did that too. 18:16:54 Posterdati: What was it that had to do with GEB here? 18:17:08 gigamonkey: you propose WHAT? metrics in code understandability? have you gone insane? 18:17:26 just books that have to do with math and/or cs 18:17:39 (Bike) 18:17:43 gigamonkey: next you'll be pushing for actual science content in CS? (: 18:17:55 heavens no! 18:17:57 antifuchs: whoa! let's not get carried away. 18:18:03 Bike: GEB talk about Lisp too 18:18:18 Yeah, I remember the generated kan with a stray gensym. 18:19:03 actually all I would ask is for my U to splinter a software eng. program off of their CS dept 18:19:07 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 18:19:07 I remember wanting to see the source, since that seemed like a pretty weird error 18:19:13 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:37 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 18:19:38 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:40 too much java and bad hacking practice in my CS right now 18:19:52 gigamonkey: yes 18:20:15 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:49 the only "science" going on here is senior- and grad-level 18:22:07 but no, they added a digital A&E program instead 18:22:26 because it's more "trendy" 18:22:36 Arts and Entertainment? 18:22:39 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:45 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 18:22:46 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:48 yeah. EAE 18:23:21 I think the digital new media or whatever it's called program here uses Fluxus, so that's sort of interesting at least. 18:23:37 gigamonkey: on a serious note, A/B testing for code readability would be really really sweet 18:23:40 they make half-assed machinima and give student viewings 18:24:21 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 antifuchs: If you got enough people to participate you could just ask folks to rate the code they are given to look at on 1-10. Otherwise you might need to present the code and then ask some questions ... 18:24:58 gigamonkey: amicodeornot ((: 18:24:59 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 18:25:05 heheh 18:25:20 The variable 'foo' is a) where we store the number of solutions b) a counter of blah blah blah 18:25:24 etc. 18:26:08 just mislead the person being asked ((: 18:26:37 "which quicksort solution is more readable" and give them mergesort; option "none of the above" is rigth (: 18:26:41 -!- entrix [~entrix@93-80-53-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:04 does quicklisp use quicksort? 18:27:09 -!- operative [~null@adsl-70-234-134-35.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:19 Or maybe a voting site: put up a piece of code with some tests or at least a spec of what it's suposed to do. Then let folks write their own version and let everybody upvote the most readable one. 18:27:46 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:06 I've seen something like that 18:28:34 brown [~user@nat/google/x-muymzrncapqntufy] has joined #lisp 18:28:38 -!- brown is now known as reb 18:28:44 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 maybe it was just 99-bottles-of-beer.net 18:29:40 Needs a catchy name. Code Golf is making code shorter. What's making code better? 18:29:42 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:29:59 civil software engineering. 18:30:19 Code poetry? 18:30:44 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:45 haiku 18:30:46 Code tumbling? 18:30:48 code sexuality 18:31:07 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:15 not the first 3 statements i was expecting when I joined 18:31:19 dlowe: like tumbling rocks to polish them? 18:31:35 gigamonkey: yeah. the rocks hit each other and it makes them nicer 18:32:03 Lilygildin' 18:32:25 crc = code readiness contest 18:35:57 Enamkor [~user@c-67fde255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:36:09 Xach: that sort of implies the code was good to start with. 18:36:27 Guthur: what did you expect from a language that has sexps at its core? 18:37:01 -!- Enamkor [~user@c-67fde255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 18:37:05 -!- damg [~damg@p54ADAD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:15 now, what's left is to make a speech impediment joke 18:37:45 is there no good documentation on parsing an xml file and reading its node contents? 18:38:09 cxml has pretty good docs 18:38:11 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:17 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:13 akimbo, sometimes C-c C-v Tab in slime can give you useful insights; plus, like gigamonkey said the docs are better than most for cxml 18:40:58 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-128-62.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:13 thanks ill check those as well 18:41:50 Guthur: C-c C-v Tab? inspect presentation at point? 18:42:10 stassats, yeah, to understand the structure of cxml objects 18:42:41 ok 18:45:54 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:03 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:48:26 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:33 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:11 -!- symbole` [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:49 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:08 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:28 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:12 HG`` [~HG@p579F7F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:15 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:54:31 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-129-128.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:49 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:36 kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has joined #lisp 18:55:59 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7151.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:15 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:07:17 -!- kanen [~kanen@64.134.237.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:13 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:30 stis [~stis@host-90-235-19-92.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:31 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:05 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 19:15:41 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 -!- nixfreak [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:15 kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:29 kanen1 [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:29 -!- kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:33 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:21:09 What's the opposite of "scalar" already?? 19:21:38 -!- kanen1 [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:47 kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:54 Also, is there already an implementation-dependent DEFPACKAGE option name to hint that a package uses another package, but only by explicit references? 19:22:03 Something like (:also-uses #:closer-mop) 19:22:50 Hexstream: vector or vectorial, depending on use(noun or adjective) 19:24:01 fe[nl]ix: I'm sure there must be a better-sounding name for what I want. The context is that I'm making a query language for declarations, and I want types for things like "scalar declaration" (only one declaration) and "plural declaration". But plural doesn't sound right... 19:24:15 Hexstream: what would that :also-uses express? 19:25:05 antifuchs: Didn't I say that already? It expresses that the package makes use of symbols from the other package, but only through qualified:symbols. 19:25:11 but the package doesn't 19:25:15 your code does. 19:25:22 antifuchs: he's looking for a proper module system 19:25:37 package nicknames or conduits might be closest to this 19:26:07 or :depends-on (:closer-mop)? 19:26:29 antifuchs: I know, it's an hint thing. If I :use a package, everyone can tell that I use the package, but if I don't :use it yet refer to its symbols, then the dependency is not immediately apparent. I like explicit dependencies. 19:26:48 right. dependencies are what asdf handles best (: 19:26:49 nikodemus_: Sure, but that's for the ASD, not the DEFPACKAGE. 19:26:59 or let's say, semi-acceptably 19:27:12 Hexstream: exactly. package doesn't depend. the system does 19:27:18 I think a new type of "dependency" :enhances would be nice for ASDs too. 19:27:36 if you want, define DEFMODULE that combines defpackage and defsystem :) 19:27:54 Hexstream: there's weakly-depends-on 19:27:56 nikodemus_: So you don't think that using a package, whether via :use or explicit:references doesn't count as a dependency?? 19:28:10 it's not a dependency of the package 19:28:11 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:28:13 nikodemus_: That's not the same thing as :enhances. 19:28:43 :enhances would mean: "I don't need that library at all, but I can provide some enhancements to it if it's loaded." 19:29:04 Like if you have a library that doesn't use Iterate but can provide new iteration types for it optionally. 19:29:23 yeah I forgot why weakly-depends-on doesn't cut it 19:29:32 asdf-system-connections is supposed to do something like that. 19:29:32 ah, do a reverse weakly-depends-on 19:30:05 Xach: I'm vaguely aware, yes. Guess I should investigate at some point... 19:30:10 not sure if that makes sense. surely those depending on your enhancement should say so in their code. or maybe i misunderstand 19:30:27 s/do a/so a/ 19:30:33 tcr1: ever since it was specced, I wasn't sure what weakly-depends-on is supposed to solve. is it a load-order thing? 19:30:58 nikodemus_: Yeah, I just realized, maybe parameterized ASDF dependencies would be nice?... 19:31:29 (:depends-on (#:some-library #:iterate-support)) or something. 19:31:40 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 So the enhancement would be loaded only on request. 19:32:04 antifuchs: it's an optional dependency. say eg. linedit could have a weak dependency on osicat -- providing filename completion only if osicat was available 19:32:13 but working fine without it as well 19:32:27 hm. ah. availability, not loadedness. 19:32:33 ok, makes sense 19:32:37 maybe now I'll remember (: 19:33:42 Hexstream: i still don't understand. if someone uses your iterate-extension for a library, why is it preferable that they express this dependency through that library instead of as a dependecy on your extensions? 19:34:24 _6502_ [5e24fd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.253.20] has joined #lisp 19:34:41 say system A+ weakly depends on A, system B wants to use A+ but not A itself 19:34:56 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 19:35:03 tcr1: Yeah, exactly. 19:35:52 *|3b|* would rather just have a separate system that depends on both for people that want the extended system 19:35:54 It's about expressly declaring dependencies to a finer level of granularity. 19:36:00 Hexstream: I declare when a file also uses a package only by qualification with a (declaim (declaration also-use-packages)) (declaim (also-use-packages "P1" "P2"...)) at the beginning of the file. 19:36:30 with (in-package "CL-USER") before, so that the declaration is always cl-user::also-use-packages 19:36:41 Then I have tools processing this information. 19:36:42 |3b|: That's a pretty heavyweight approach if the extension is really small. 19:36:55 eg. generating asd files... 19:37:00 <|3b|> only working when things are loaded in a specific order isn't very good either though 19:37:10 And there's a combinatorial explosion if there are many small extensions like that that you might want to use only a subset of. 19:37:21 Kudos to anyone who writes a tool to generate a depends.mk from an asd file 19:37:40 wouldn't think it should be too hard 19:37:40 antifuchs: hey, do you know if there's a way to run ack only on open buffers? 19:37:50 tcr1: how much kudos? 19:38:06 Isn't mk-defsystem dead dead dead right now? 19:38:41 *|3b|* isn't sure if setting things up to load extensions if the to-be-extended system is loaded later is good or bad 19:38:42 Yes, unless in systems that use it and haven't switched to xcvb yet. I mean asdf yet. 19:38:43 It might get resurrected in finalization. 19:38:48 Xach: would be perfect addition to buildapp 19:38:58 tcr1: certainly within scope 19:39:04 I mean buildapp is the reason why I want it 19:39:09 Xach, this much kudos... 19:39:15 *Guthur* spreads his arms 19:39:45 haha yeah I can offer free accomodation in zurich :-) 19:39:55 and training lessons on riding a unicycle 19:40:12 mk-defsystem isn't dead. I still use it occasionally. I am, however, slowly migrating to asdf2. 19:40:48 Oh, and maxima still uses mk-defsys. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. 19:42:10 rtoym: There's still people playing NES games, but that doesn't mean that the platform isn't dead. 19:42:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-69.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:43:50 I still use a 20 year-old keyboard. Does that make it dead? 19:43:53 :-) 19:44:13 a better analogy would be whether people are still making NES games, which they aren't, aside from the occasional hacker. 19:45:02 Bike: Well, exactly. There's still the occasional hacker using mk-defsystem, but that doesn't mean it isn't dead. 19:46:33 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F7F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:48:21 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 19:48:36 maybe it's not dead, but just is perfect 19:48:39 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:09 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:49:11 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 19:49:16 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 19:49:22 stassats: which means it's dead. 19:49:34 It's as dead as latin! 19:49:42 felideon: sorry, not aware of any 19:49:48 felideon: generally, ack is for files on disk only 19:50:02 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:04 You haven't seen Perl in Latin, have you? :P 19:50:16 Perligata 19:50:31 antifuchs: works fine on SSDs too! 19:50:35 antifuchs: true :) 19:50:55 felideon: but I think emacs's occur might be what you're looking for. 19:51:03 (I'm not using it, but I know a few people who swear by it) 19:51:41 occur is just for current buffer, no? 19:52:01 ah, multi-occur or something 19:52:05 like I said, I don't use it (: 19:52:52 chrisdone [~chris@host254-46-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:52:56 Levente [~Levente@178.48.169.59] has joined #lisp 19:53:12 Anybody got a WHERE macro of some kind a la Haskell's where? 19:53:27 What does WHERE in haskell do? 19:53:49 do you want to turn your lisp into a haskell? 19:53:53 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:39 hi Folks, I haven't been around since... I don't even remember... 19:54:53 antifuchs: ah yeah that does it. i would rarely use it, but yes 19:54:55 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:27 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:55:44 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@217.66.160.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:21 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:49 Xach: f =  where x = 1 is equivalent to (defun f () (let ((x 1)) )). Essentially it reverses the order of declaration to code. I'm not sure how I'd like to write the macroI figured I'd check whether someone's already cooked something up that works in a lispy way. 19:57:08 Why not use let? 19:57:23 chrisdone: this construct is not lispy at all 19:57:35 Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like let except that you put the code before the bindings. 19:57:40 Bike: I like to read the high-level parts and then the bottom bits after. 19:57:45 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:51 if you want haskell, you know where to find it 19:58:07 stassats: That's a bit hostile, haha. :-P 19:58:11 *chrisdone* hugs stassats 19:58:27 i was trying to be helpful! 19:58:29 Mm, LFE. 19:58:43 chrisdone: Change your preferences? You won't get much sympathy for that kind of "issue" around here, I'm afraid. 19:59:10 Okay, I'll see what I can cook up. Was just curious if someone already did it. 19:59:28 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:59:50 chrisdone: you can wrap a defun in a LET 19:59:58 (defmacro where (&body body) `(let ,(car (last body)) ,@(butlast body))), is that the right effect? 20:00:22 chrisdone: when you write your WHERE in those terms, you just need to reverse the body vs. variable bindings form 20:00:36 not sure it'll look nice, though : 20:02:33 which library is the best for drawing graphics on the screen? I'd like to draw polygons, images, texts with antialias and various fonts; should be portable among windows, linux, mac and hopefully support remote rendering 20:02:48 <|3b|> firefox? :p 20:02:50 am I right that the only player is CLX? 20:03:09 Bike: Yeah, that kind of thing. That's one way I considered. There could also be :where with a keyword, like a (let-where  :where ). Then (defun-where x ()  (where (x 1) (y 2))) etc. 20:03:10 more like an injured pllayer 20:03:44 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:03:44 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:04:00 Levente: no. 20:04:14 Levente: what you describe sounds a bit like SDL. 20:04:51 I will also need low level mouse and keyboard support 20:05:16 chrisdone: Well, I don't think there's going to be a library thing for that, no, as it seems to be a fairly easy syntax rearrangement. And it will probably impact code readability negatively. 20:05:29 Xach, this? http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/LispbuilderSDL 20:05:37 Levente: yes. 20:05:58 Levente: since you've been away, you might not know about Quicklisp. Quicklisp is the easiest way to install lispbuilder. 20:06:22 Xach, I know Quicklisp :) thanks 20:09:37 how does SDL compare to Cairo in terms of parametrization and image quality? 20:10:42 hi 20:10:56 is there a good tutorial on macro for a beginner? 20:10:57 Levente, there is cl-opengl, which should soon get support for glu tessellation, which will allow 3D font rendering 20:11:10 <|3b|> sdl is pretty low level, but does input and sound and such 20:11:21 oh well then opengl is out 20:11:43 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:11:55 hi folks 20:12:00 Guthur, I don't need 3d at all 20:12:11 Posterdati: PCL's? 20:12:38 Bike: gigamonkey's book? 20:12:40 Levente, that's ok, it renders to 2d plane anyway, hehe 20:12:43 Bike: ok, good 20:12:44 yes. 20:12:59 <|3b|> cairo would probably have been my next suggestion after firefox, dunno how hard it is to hook input to it though 20:13:25 Bike: thanks 20:13:32 |3b|: what is the maintenance status of cl-opengl currently? i remind you were trying to keep it up to date with new opengl versions 20:14:07 <|3b|> kenanb: i merged some patches recently, and update the bindings when i notice new GL versions 20:14:30 i would use commonqt 20:14:56 and about webgl stuff you were working on? 20:15:03 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:15:10 *|3b|* doesn't do enough with desktop GL at the moment to really drive development, so more depends on users to send patches, and doesn't seem to be all that many of those :( 20:15:50 *|3b|* 's most recent attempt at ps + webgl stuff is on github, not sure if it is particularly usable by people that aren't me though :p 20:15:59 SDL's lisp support seems to be more complete than Cairo's 20:16:16 i checked your web page recently, saw that little webgl warriors again :) 20:16:36 or dwarves, not sure 20:16:57 *|3b|* needs a better workflow for getting webgl stuff from local dev to website :/ 20:17:09 <|3b|> yeah, i think they are dwarves 20:17:39 <|3b|> (just the random model i happened to grab out of the assimp test files) 20:17:57 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:20:07 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:09 your big dwarf here seems to have a better outfit than mine http://3bb.cc/blog/ 20:20:14 yet they look similar 20:20:38 <|3b|> i think there was another available for it 20:21:33 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:07 dcrawford_ [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:10 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-080-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:10 -!- dcrawford_ is now known as dcrawford 20:22:48 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-19-92.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:51 does lispbuilder-SDL provide antialias for lines, etc? 20:23:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:23:55 <|3b|> i think sdl-gfx does 20:24:04 <|3b|> (which i think lispbuilder supports) 20:25:43 -!- atomx` [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:27:59 <|3b|> yeah, looks like extra :AA T option is available for some primitives when lispbuilder-sdl-gfx is loaded 20:29:56 Case anyone cares for such a macro: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122292 20:30:29 |3b|, thanks I'm just trying... 20:30:51 Why the reverse? 20:31:17 Bike: Because it's top-down as opposed to bottom-up. 20:31:30 I mean, the order doesn't matter for let, does it? 20:31:48 Bike: There is execution order. 20:32:10 Hm, didn't think of that. 20:33:29 (where* (+ x y) ((x (* 2 y)) (y 20))) => 60 20:33:56 Buh, I guess it's a weird one, I can't think of another language that reverses the code+declaration order. 20:34:43 ISWIM, but I think Haskell is based on it. 20:34:46 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 Maybe ML, but I haven't used ML. 20:35:16 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 20:35:23 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:29 Seems like ISWIM predated ML. 20:35:43 1966 predates a lot of things. 20:35:57 |3b|, for lines it did AA, but could not make it work for text yet 20:36:08 Bike: Even frisbies? 20:36:20 Er, frisbees. 20:36:37 Wouldn't know 20:36:46 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:36:47 By the way, if you like Haskell and Lisp, you might like Qi. 20:37:06 <|3b|> Levente: yeah, might need to use a separate function for aa text instead of extra option 20:37:25 <|3b|> Levente: maybe draw-string-blended ? 20:37:57 |3b|, trying with that but didn't work 20:38:38 <|3b|> can you paste what you have? 20:38:45 I've seen that, yeah. It is rather funky. Haven't tried it, though. 20:39:02 stop 20:39:05 |3b|, I just modified simple-font-demo.lisp 20:39:08 I wanna learn haskell :) 20:39:11 <|3b|> ok 20:39:21 replaced draw-string-solid-* with blended 20:39:25 and the text disappeared 20:39:57 *|3b|* seems to not even have lispbuilder-sdl installed on this machine, give me a few sec.... 20:40:50 |3b|, of course :) you are helping me, not the other way around 20:40:56 Bike: I tried adding a Lisp syntax to Haskell, have yet to start writing programs in it. Would be difficult to get contributors in such a bomb of esoterica. ;) 20:41:12 chrisdone: Liskell? 20:41:24 That's backwards from what I would have expected. 20:41:28 stassats: in your openbox code is there more than one node when doing a find-child? 20:41:41 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:45 let me look 20:42:02 Hey, can I contribute to your project? What's it written in? Haskell. Uh, okay, I can learn that, I guess With Lisp syntax. Uh I'll get my coat. 20:42:08 p_l|backup: No, Lisk. But similar. 20:42:22 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:04 akimbo: more than one node where? 20:43:17 like when doing a list-files 20:43:18 Bike: Well I can't get enough of sexprs and paredit-mode. It's a dream to edit and write macros for. Haskell, on the other hand, is a nightmare to edit and crappy to write macros for. 20:43:50 I meant that I would expect Haskell to be embedded in Lisp, since Lisp is a lot easier to put stuff on top of, I think, such as the billions of Prolog implementations 20:44:04 akimbo: i still don't understand the question 20:44:13 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-129-128.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:16 It would take me years to implement a Haskell. Not practical. 20:44:23 when you parse the folder list is it all under 1 element node set? 20:44:48 i don't know! 20:44:51 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 20:44:55 ok :) 20:45:06 i don't really remember what it's doing off-hand 20:45:20 no worries, do you still have your imdb code up somewhere 20:45:33 -!- tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 20:45:38 Bike: Or what do you mean just output code from CL for the HS compiler? I hadn't considered that. 20:45:40 Bike: while Haskellwas implemented in CL, modern Haskell got usable partially thanks to great progress in compilers like GHC 20:46:02 p_l|backup: I thought it was Scheme originally, from York? 20:46:08 I know. 20:46:23 chrisdone: Well, I don't know what you're doing, but I thought you'd like to know about Qi if you hadn't, is the point. 20:46:25 I think CL was on the list of "let's use that" before GHC came along. 20:46:33 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 20:46:37 Bike: Sure. 20:46:44 |3b|, in general the state of this SDL library is pretty good 20:47:09 akimbo: yes, i have, i've been hiding it fearing IMDB wouldn't like it 20:47:24 chrisdone: there's an early Haskell implementation somewhere on Software for AI CD (in CL, iirc) 20:47:29 stassats: :) i just wanted to see how you parse the xml portion 20:48:42 <|3b|> Levente: i think it might just not want to draw bitmap fonts with AA 20:48:52 wait, i'll open up the access 20:48:58 <|3b|> Levente: loading lispbuilder-sdl-ttf and changing it to a ttf font seems to work 20:49:02 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:22 <|3b|> (well, partially... doesn't seem to justify them anymore) 20:49:22 |3b|, I was just doing that 20:49:31 but could not find the native library 20:49:50 akimbo: http://stassats.dyndns.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=imdb.git 20:49:53 cmm [~cmm@109.67.199.173] has joined #lisp 20:49:57 although i don't think you can clone it 20:50:07 stassats: ok thats cool thanks 20:50:17 p_l|backup: Rings a bell; a CMUCL one, perhaps. 20:50:35 stassats: doesn't seem to resolve 20:50:38 and i wouldn't say that i like the code much 20:50:48 that's possible 20:51:40 p_l|backup: Ahh, bit of code archeology for you: http://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/94-07-098 but it is possible to build the system on virtually any system that runs one of a number of Common Lisp implementations. We do NOT support either akcl (gcl) or CLisp; these systems do not have adaquate performance for our compiler. 20:51:42 ok, some more gates to open 20:52:28 akimbo: try again 20:52:51 stassats: no go :( 20:53:17 <|3b|> yeah, justify option seems unimplemented for AA text :/ 20:54:19 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@115.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:28 akimbo: now it should really work 20:54:38 stassats: there we go 20:55:04 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:23 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 20:55:29 |3b|, now with TTF installed I have AA text 20:55:31 great 20:55:53 chrisdone: hm, still contemporaneous with ghc, that's interesting. 20:56:57 hello Levente :) 20:57:16 fe[nl]ix, hi there! 20:57:34 akimbo: so, have you got it? 20:57:38 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-233-96.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:41 stassats: yea i downloaded a snapshot 20:57:48 stassats: feel free to lock down your system again :) 20:57:51 ok, i'll hide it again then 20:57:53 thanks! 20:59:33 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:31 |3b|, thanks for your help, this is enough progress for today (especially after a full day C++) 21:01:45 <|3b|> :) 21:02:01 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:38 bye 21:02:53 -!- Levente [~Levente@178.48.169.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:18 -!- tomaw_ is now known as tomaw 21:03:21 -!- kanen [~kanen@c-98-234-85-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:33 xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.76] has joined #lisp 21:05:05 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:05:41 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:05:49 -!- xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.76] has quit [Client Quit] 21:06:04 how to use cl-regex? 21:06:15 xpf [~xpf@95.83.136.76] has joined #lisp 21:06:40 and, at least, how to load it? 21:06:54 *|3b|* uses cl-ppcre 21:07:19 quickload cl-ppcre 21:07:33 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'regex) |; undefined function: REGEX::NEXT2 21:07:34 (defregex 'digit "[0-9]") 21:07:55 and defregex is not recognized, though it's in regex.lisp 21:08:26 <|3b|> is it in a package? 21:08:45 <|3b|> is so you should probably use that, if not you should find some different software :p 21:09:31 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Client Quit] 21:10:06 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:07 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:10:07 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 but even that don't work as expected 21:10:52 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.219.35] has joined #lisp 21:11:05 is there any documentation for cl-regex? 21:11:18 <|3b|> why do you want cl-regex? 21:11:33 because it seems to be standard 21:11:55 <|3b|> having 'cl-' in the name doesn't make things standard 21:12:13 <|3b|> cl-ppcre has 'cl-' in the name too though 21:12:23 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:12:24 *|3b|* has never heard of anyone using cl-regex 21:12:52 and ubuntu repository contains cl-regex, but not cl-pprce 21:13:02 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:13:07 what is going on in this crazy lisp world... 21:13:09 francogrex [~user@109.130.4.208] has joined #lisp 21:13:14 <|3b|> well, complain to ubuntu about that then :p 21:13:27 <|3b|> (and then stop using ubuntu lisp packages and get quicklisp instead) 21:13:37 burn 21:13:57 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:22 http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/cl-ppcre what's that then? 21:14:32 although, don't use it anyway 21:14:40 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:59 <|3b|> alternately, you can look for somewhere ubuntu lisp package maintainers hang out, and ask them for support :) 21:16:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:17:13 anyone has experience with building maxima with sbcl? (advice needed) 21:18:34 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:29 francogrex: it works in Gentoo. You could look at the ebuild to see how they do it. 21:21:04 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041145.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 21:23:44 EarlGray: i suggest not even trying to use ubuntu&debian whatever package management system for lisp packages 21:25:02 rootzlevel: ok, it works for me also I followed the install.lisp instructions, but just wanted to know how to build the packages (like the Package simplex etc... 21:26:10 people probably won't be able to help you because you will either be using an outdated version of that package while nearly everyone using the latest sources or quicklisp distros 21:26:24 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c689.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:32 ok 21:26:56 or there will at least always be the doubt that you are using an outdated version even when you are not :) 21:27:11 qnavry [~user@c114-76-38-76.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:27:36 so the first suggestion will be try the latest sources 21:28:43 is there an object system implementation that objects are not instances of the classes directly 21:28:45 i mean they are just objects, and if they match the predicates defined for a specific class, they are behaved as instances of that class 21:28:47 i am struggling with the idea nowadays but i don't know what search term to use to get to sources 21:29:05 methods does not directly dispatch against predicates, but eventually, because they dispatch on arbitrary class definitions consisting of some predicates 21:29:53 Something built on top of prototypes? 21:30:41 i am not sure what you mean by that 21:30:54 i have a huge gap in the middle of my cs knowledge :) 21:31:13 Prototype-based object-orientation, I mean. Like Self or javascript. 21:31:29 i don't think so 21:31:38 i'll check it out first, then get back to you 21:31:42 Predicate Dispatching (Ucko). 21:32:14 But even with uninterpreted predicates, you introduce np-hard problems in your object system. 21:32:42 Bike: not like that 21:33:38 consider you defined a class, that consists of some slots, some of them might have initial values and some predicates, or the class itself might have some predicates also 21:33:39 I understand now, why the first entry in google search for "cl-regex documentation" was cl-ppcre 21:34:23 and even if you create the objects instancing that class, it doesn't belong to the class persistently 21:35:06 if the values of the object doesn't match the class predicates at some point, the object doesn't belong to the class any more 21:35:15 pkhuong: you are right about that 21:36:00 pkhuong: i am guessing you make that observation considering the dispatch is done at the time of method calling, right? 21:36:14 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-233-96.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:16 would it change anything if the dispatch is done at object creation and modification 21:37:03 the main problem you'll encounter is deciding precedence between methods. 21:37:07 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:37:36 pkhuong: but the classes will have class hierarchy as usual 21:38:18 you can just change-class and use multiple inheritance then. 21:40:47 of course, i don't mean that my idea does solve an issue that current object oriented systems can't handle, especially the ones like clos 21:41:14 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:41:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:41:37 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.4.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:16 if you're on linux then it's easy to build the likes of SBCL and you're good to go 21:43:22 i was just thinking if that might present a better way to implement an world of objects that are maybe more dynamic in nature 21:44:07 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.46.46.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:44:16 and maybe that would provide an easier way of combining aspect/context/object oriented styles 21:44:49 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:45:09 since that way you can implement more than one way of classification on top of same objects, that will probably represent different contexts, or aspects 21:46:18 yet i am not familiar with aspect/context oriented styles either, just talking half-theoretically considering what i read from pages like wikipedia 21:48:51 maybe i should also read pascals papers on these subjects more deeply 21:49:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:05 Pascal's* 21:49:11 Who? 21:49:17 Pascal Costanza 21:49:44 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-233-116.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:58 his web page is full of links to his papers on aspect/context oriented programming, filtered dispatch etc. 21:50:17 Ah. 21:51:13 -!- _6502_ [5e24fd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.253.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:51:24 yet he seems to left academia recently :) 21:51:37 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 21:51:58 oh hey, he did that paper on bcsmith... 21:53:14 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:39 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-171-87.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:54:48 who is he 21:54:54 oudeis [~oudeis@2.52.191.123] has joined #lisp 21:56:18 Nobody that important, I just read some of his thesis, and I read Mr. Costanza's paper on that paper. 21:57:35 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:47 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.221.44.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 21:58:08 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:49 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00:11 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-2-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:00:17 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-8-236.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:01:31 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:01:46 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:03:08 -!- naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-8-236.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:17 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-8-236.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:03:29 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:35 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 22:05:42 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 22:05:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:57 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:02 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:10:13 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 22:10:13 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:25 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 22:11:04 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75740a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:06 What's the easiest way to get a stream to an in-memory array/vector? Basically, a with-output-to-stream equivalent that works for octet arrays instead of strings. . . . or the nearest code. . 22:12:07 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:35 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-2-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 22:12:41 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:13:30 flexi-streams:with-output-to-sequence 22:15:40 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:43 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:32 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:19:06 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:26 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:01 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:22:10 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:41 -!- redline6` [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:20 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:04 francogrex [~user@109.130.4.208] has joined #lisp 22:29:01 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 22:32:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:42 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@209.195.112.60] has joined #lisp 22:34:15 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-233-116.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:58 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 22:36:40 ntides [~tidal@S0106c84c75c3cea7.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:05 -!- ntides [~tidal@S0106c84c75c3cea7.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 22:37:38 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:06 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 22:38:19 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:42:08 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:20 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:42:41 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:47 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-138-7.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:08 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:49:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:50:49 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51:15 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:51:23 -!- chrisdone [~chris@host254-46-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: movie >> bed] 22:51:52 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:44 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:07 tankrim [~user@c-67fde255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:53:11 -!- tankrim [~user@c-67fde255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 22:53:24 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 22:54:15 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:55:35 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:57:07 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:44 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:17 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:28 Oh man, looking at the CLHS for get-internal-real-time I'm thinking they missed a trick when they didn't put a function into CL that returns whether the moon is full or not. Then they could have an "Affected By" section that says, "Phase of moon." 23:00:32 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:02:51 Demosthenes [~demo@h-68-166-140-122.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:22 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:49 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:09:11 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:10:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.52.191.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:38 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-185-93.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:11:41 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:12:51 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.4.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:15 hehe, 'affected by the passage of time' duh 23:15:26 i am too! 23:15:28 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-138-7.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:14 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:08 gigamonkey: well, at least we don't have time function returning microforthnights... do we? 23:19:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.5.133] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:21:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-141-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:15 get-phase-of-the-moon would be handy for anyone using the lunar calendar though 23:25:06 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 23:25:07 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 23:28:10 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 23:28:46 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-156-14.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:04 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-156-14.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 23:35:04 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:35:15 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:36:50 debian testing SBCL package is now more up to date than me 23:37:05 pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:25 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:28 you know you're behind if debian is a head of you 23:40:08 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-sldgxisqldnmosst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:08 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-axryuzgtidtkywnd] has joined #lisp 23:47:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-189-156.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:10 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-64.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:33 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.53] has joined #lisp 23:54:16 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-151-64.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]