00:01:59 wetnosed_ [~kai@e177088161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:45 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7A63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:55 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e177089001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:04:29 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:05:03 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:09:31 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-24-8.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:12:11 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:35 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.9.45] has joined #lisp 00:15:01 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:39 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 00:17:15 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:19:42 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:00 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.237.121] has joined #lisp 00:21:08 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7CF96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:25:18 are class definitions available at compile-time? 00:25:41 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.28.241] has joined #lisp 00:26:32 Hi all! 00:26:58 weirdo: more or less. 00:27:12 weirdo: you can use the MOP to introspect classes. 00:27:37 Hello Bahman 00:27:59 Hi drdo. 00:29:07 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:42 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:38:25 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-012-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:37 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-011-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:49 err, how to easily get a direct slot definition from an effective one? what i'm interested in is an accessor name 00:44:30 having an effective one i'm not able to get the accessor 00:45:06 I don't have it in mind. Check the AMOP. 00:45:13 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:03 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:05 i think i'd have to resolve the damn inheritance graph :/ 00:46:45 after much deliberation, i just found out that what works for me is doing it for direct slots only 00:47:09 since parent classes do the same, and it would duplicate the assignment 00:47:16 weirdo: an accessor is just a generic function. 00:48:00 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-011-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:10 pkhuong, but i need the name of the damn thing 00:48:12 :-) 00:48:15 not anymore, but still 00:49:27 weirdo: unless this is for laziness's sake, that would be a sign of doing it wrong. 00:49:56 what do you mean, 'for laziness\' sake'? 00:50:30 are you using introspection to save you some typing, or do you really need that introspection? 00:50:55 i don't need it, but i'd rather avoid writing boilerplate code 00:51:02 if the former, then just be aware of the limits. 00:51:41 e.g. I could just as well define (defmethod foo-of (x) (slot-value ...)) instead of using defclass's :reader. 00:51:43 -!- galiley [~user@212.21.153.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:01 one could do both 00:54:35 and there's not really any way to go from the class definition to such a method. 00:55:17 Methods are not attached to classes, but to generic functions. 00:55:41 Given a generic function, you can find the method that will be called upon dispatch on a given class (list of arguments classes). 00:56:10 classes get the data, generic functions get the code. 00:56:26 pjb: sure. Now how does a programm deduce that a particular GF is a reader or a writer? 00:57:49 pkhuong: any gf that dispatch on a single class argument could be considered a reader. Any gf that dispatch on a single class second argument could be considered a writer. 00:58:08 Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 00:58:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59:34 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.210.216] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:00:05 GFs dispatch now? 01:00:21 wetnosed [~kai@e177089042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:00:30 Yes. That's even the only thing they do. 01:00:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:03:04 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e177088161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:05:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:37 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e177089042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 01:10:52 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:13:57 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.202] has joined #lisp 01:14:33 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:41 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 01:17:57 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:20:19 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.9.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:23 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.9.45] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:23:42 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.190] has joined #lisp 01:24:40 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:22 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 01:29:39 leyyer_su [~user@110.184.1.167] has joined #lisp 01:31:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:27 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:32:07 -!- symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:39:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:45:21 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:47:39 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:57 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.190] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 02:01:52 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:03:31 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483ADBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:55 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:34 -!- claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:04 -!- leyyer_su [~user@110.184.1.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:22 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72c478.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:44 symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 02:12:41 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f726876.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:13:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:18 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:19 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-201-99.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:28 Hey guys.. When you are in the REPL buffer and you type some command and press RET and it doesnt do anything, how do you kill the command to get back to the CL-USER prompt? 02:27:44 Sorta like the escape/kill/end command? 02:28:12 mobydick: Not sure i understand what you mean by "doesn't do anything" 02:28:57 <_3b> backspace? 02:29:20 <_3b> it's just sitting there waiting for you to finish it, you can still edit it all you want 02:29:35 for example if i forget an ending ) or " 02:29:39 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 02:29:56 mobydick: You can just edit it 02:30:08 so i can backspace everything i've typed until i get it right and press RET? 02:30:22 yes, you can edit however you like 02:30:29 Is there any command to just forget what you've typed so far and return to the CL-USER prompt? 02:30:39 -!- TDT [~user@173-23-13-45.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:30:59 slime-repl-delete-current-input 02:31:17 <_3b> looks like C-c C-u 02:31:33 <_3b> (which i found by just looking in the REPL menu) 02:31:49 I found that by just pressing tab using M-x 02:32:04 Yep i've tried that but i still dont return to the CL-USER prompt, it just gives a blank newline 02:32:27 mobydick: i'm guessing you mean from the command-line, not slime? 02:32:45 althought he said buffer .. 02:33:00 mobydick: C-c C-u definetly works here 02:33:17 Sorry I might be using the wrong terminology. I am currently in the "Slime-REPL CCL" buffer 02:33:25 Where I have the CL-USER prompt 02:33:31 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.93.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:36 mobydick: Yes, that's what we were thinking 02:33:36 ctrl-/ (undo) :P 02:33:48 mobydick: What happens when you do C-c C-u ? 02:34:59 :drdo It displays the commands at the bottom of the screen but nothing in the buffer 02:36:26 M-x slime-repl-kill-input 02:36:29 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-2-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:29 what happens if you do this? 02:37:14 Now whenever I type into the buffer and press RET it just moves to a newline. If I restart Aquamacs and restart Slime it returns to the normal REPL buffer. 02:37:57 oh shit aquamacs 02:38:49 :drdo problem? 02:39:00 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-65-45.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:39:01 Am i better off using Emacs? 02:39:28 just trying to get a decent setup to start working with Lisp, but having a hell of a time. Im on OS X btw. 02:39:46 *zmv* shouts "VIM!" and runs away from the emacsites 02:40:06 mobydick: http://emacsformacosx.com/ 02:40:33 LiamH [~healy@74-94-170-253-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:42 Although I was using Emacs previously, and having the exact same problem 02:41:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-201-99.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:42:51 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp203-122-208-66.lns5.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:45 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-2-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:45:46 mobydick: next time, try hitting ctrl-c a few times (while still in that buffer) 02:46:58 :derrida ok thanks will give that a go 02:49:42 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:52:52 cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 02:56:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:12 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:03:22 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:06:41 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:08:08 -!- tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:08:19 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:01 weirdo: You were trying to find a direct slot definition from an effective slot definition earlier... (defun find-direct-slot (class slot-name) (some (lambda (super) (find slot-name (class-direct-slots super) :key #'slot-definition-name)) (class-precedence-list class))) (You may need to call FINALIZE-INHERITANCE on the class first) 03:10:26 As you can see, no need to "resolve the damn class graph", that's done at class finalization time and the result is available with CLASS-PRECEDENCE-LIST... 03:12:42 I finally decided to open the MOP can of worms and I'm delighted that SBCL apparently gets everything right (at least according to closer-mop) :) 03:13:35 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:13:59 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:18:37 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:19:06 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 03:19:47 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-252-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:33 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:22:42 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp203-122-208-66.lns5.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:23:07 sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:08 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-106-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:37 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-252-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:26:25 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:29:46 -!- LiamH [~healy@74-94-170-253-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:29 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:46 mccp [~mccp@203.87.201.142] has joined #lisp 03:34:58 -!- mccp [~mccp@203.87.201.142] has left #lisp 03:35:18 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:37:18 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:42 hallo lisp 03:38:08 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:38:21 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 03:38:38 hallo holycow 03:39:25 bpr [~user@cpe-72-226-14-246.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:03 what does the error "could not find any output routine for :FULL buffered (UNSIGNED-CHAR 8)" mean? I'm using SBCL and the code that causes the error is pasted at: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122185 03:41:56 zipdata in that paste is a vector of (unsigned-char 8) 03:43:00 Do you mean (unsigned-byte 8) ? 03:43:06 unsigned-char isn't a type 03:43:48 wow 03:43:51 lol 03:45:52 -!- bpr [~user@cpe-72-226-14-246.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:31 bpr [~user@cpe-72-226-14-246.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:38 drdo: thanks for the help 03:46:50 i'm a little embarrassed lol, but ty anyhow 03:47:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:44 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:48:55 bpr: Eh, don't be, everyone makes mistakes like that 03:52:49 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.237.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:50 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has left #lisp 03:55:40 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.105.188] has joined #lisp 03:56:06 qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-255-143-248.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:09 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:35 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.185.201] has joined #lisp 04:04:50 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.48.20] has joined #lisp 04:04:59 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:05:11 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:06 -!- dys` is now known as dys 04:09:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:10:39 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:10 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:07 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.185.201] has quit [Quit: if you're going....to san. fran. cisco!!!] 04:31:05 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:34:49 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:37:26 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 04:44:53 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-106-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 04:51:09 -!- bpr [~user@cpe-72-226-14-246.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:30 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:03:35 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-106-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:39 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:07:50 Evildaemon [~chatzilla@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.96.187] has joined #lisp 05:08:58 How would one search for multiple values in a list at once? (Member apparently only takes two arguments.) 05:11:01 remove-if-not or some 05:11:07 depending on what you want to do 05:11:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819BD5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:11:34 cells-gtk segfaults in adding stuff to a treeview 05:11:37 any ideas? 05:11:38 :( 05:12:07 i'm using the ramarren build 05:12:40 Uh, I'm making a horrible, eye melting code hackish tic-tac-toe game for which I need to be able to detect a winning combo even if theres other stuff mixed in. 05:12:52 (From the badness) 05:13:11 Since you asked. 05:14:39 For each row, if every element is player, there is a win. 05:14:58 is the same player 05:15:55 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:32 which GUI toolkit is actually maintained and usable, if any? 05:19:50 cells-gtk is a mess, it won't even let me add stuff to a treeview without segfaulting 05:19:51 there's commonqt. Or CAPI, or ACL's other thing. 05:26:09 sacho [~sacho@87-126-42-180.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 05:28:38 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 05:33:04 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:59 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:45 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-201-99.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:55 -!- Evildaemon [~chatzilla@50-35-176-190.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110422050619]] 05:47:37 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:43 pnq [~nick@ACA43872.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:35 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:41 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54:25 joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has joined #lisp 05:54:26 CADD [~aistis@69.26.205.200] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 -!- Cooper__ [jockc@192.94.73.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:58:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:58:42 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 05:59:26 err, how do i maximize a window in commonqt? 05:59:38 is there even a way to access instance/static fields and enums? 05:59:48 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-201-99.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:02:11 -!- joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:13:52 joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has joined #lisp 06:14:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:32 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:18:57 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:19:32 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 06:22:16 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:22:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.96.187] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:24:58 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:42 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:30 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:19 -!- symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:23 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.105.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:29:55 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 06:32:39 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:32:46 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2B70.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:37:32 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:38:16 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 06:39:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:42:36 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:46 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:11 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:49:23 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 06:49:47 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 06:50:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:50:43 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 06:54:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.123.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:54:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:27 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 06:56:12 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:56:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:56:43 -!- gaidal_ is now known as gaidal 07:00:41 I'm trying to use Hunchentoot for the last exercise in Land of Lisp, can't figure out how to. I have a function that calls a couple of other functions and they all print to std-out - how do I redirect this to a Hunchentoot easy-handler? I thought I could bind *std.out.* to something else and print that, but haven't succeeded... 07:06:13 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 07:07:49 slash_ [~unknown@pD955E014.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:00 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 07:08:00 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 07:08:00 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 07:11:14 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:14:48 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:16:13 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:19:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:20:26 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 07:27:45 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-31-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:00 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-32-124.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:36:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:36:12 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:38:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA43872.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:38:56 foocraft [~ewanas@86.36.49.200] has joined #lisp 07:39:53 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:17 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:37 somnium` [~user@adsl-98-65-182-246.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:54 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 07:41:14 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:42:30 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-184-42-13-167.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:55:22 -!- cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:55:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.48.20] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 07:58:23 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:00:38 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:04:59 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:06:39 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:06:40 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 08:10:30 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 08:12:11 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17:23 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 08:18:03 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has joined #lisp 08:18:35 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:43 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:29 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A50BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:59 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:33:24 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 08:41:54 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:41:55 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.122.58] has joined #lisp 08:43:20 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 08:43:22 _6502_ [5e24fd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.253.20] has joined #lisp 08:43:45 <_6502_> hello... is "let over lambda" good ? 08:44:49 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:45:32 Hey does anyone know of a good tutorial into developing SQL database-backed apps with Common Lisp? 08:46:28 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 08:48:43 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 08:49:14 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:53:07 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:55:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:55:43 <_6502_> well i hope it is :-) ... I just bought it from Lulu 08:56:18 <_6502_> stassats... 08:56:33 what's up? 08:56:41 <_6502_> it was just an hello :-) 08:56:52 <_6502_> btw... do you know if Let Over Lambda is good? 08:57:29 that was a confusing greeting, but hi nevertheless 08:57:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:55 <_6502_> the LoL acronym looks a bit scary :-) 08:58:04 there are many conflicting opinions on let over lambda, you'd have to decide on your own 08:58:33 <_6502_> ok... I always decide on my own anyway :-) 08:58:50 <_6502_> but at least it's worth reading (may be to decide it's trash) 08:58:51 i haven't read it, but i've seen code from it, and i don't really like it 08:58:57 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 08:59:19 <_6502_> you don't like the let over lambda tecnique? 08:59:27 <_6502_> technique 08:59:33 techniques? 09:00:07 <_6502_> e.g. (let ((x 0)) (lambda () (incf x))) 09:00:19 yes, i don't like them, i don't like transformation of the language into something unintelligible for only marginal improvements 09:01:36 <_6502_> someone could say that (+ 1 2) is "unintellegible" because we're all used to see "1 + 2" since we were kids... 09:01:58 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 09:02:11 someone could say whatever he pleases, what of it? 09:02:32 <_6502_> and we even got beaten with a stick if we said that "1 + 3 * 4" was 16 09:02:54 <_6502_> (exaggerating just a little bit ;-) ) 09:05:33 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:06:02 <_6502_> I found the idea of things like (let ((x 0)) (lambda (msg) (cond ((eq msg 'inc) (incf x)) ((eq msg 'dec) (decf x))))) sort of eye-opening 09:06:25 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 09:07:12 I'd have suggested having the object return a method function instead. 09:07:55 So (let ((x 0)) (lambda (op) (case op ((inc) (lambda () (incf a)))))) ... 09:08:20 Now (funcall (funcall op 'inc)) works as expected. 09:08:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:09:30 And the object is removed from the operational call. 09:10:21 <_6502_> you can do (let ((x 0)) (values (lambda () (incf x)) (lambda () (decf x))) 09:11:42 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:47 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-42-180.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:14:39 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.9.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:57 <_6502_> how does SBCL implement closures? the lexical bindings are held in a vector and there is a chain to vectors from parent lexical environments? 09:16:16 Closures are a poor man's object. :) 09:16:28 <_6502_> or vice versa :-D 09:16:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:17:10 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:42 <_6502_> but i can understand how this can be controversial.... 09:19:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75551b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:19 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 09:24:13 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 09:25:30 Bahman_ [~Bahman@2.146.28.241] has joined #lisp 09:27:48 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.28.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28:00 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined 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quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:44:31 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-24-8.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:29 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.71.233] has joined #lisp 10:48:05 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:52:21 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:56:35 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 10:59:03 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:59:18 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 11:01:39 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:05:39 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:06:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:09:03 foot-odor [~ali@95.76.74.76] has joined #lisp 11:09:10 hello 11:09:27 using sbcl's trace :break argument, how can i break if an argument is equal to a certain value. i've tried (trace foo :break (eql bar 1)) (trace foo :break (eql (sb-debug:var 'bar) 1)) and with sb-debug:arg instead of var 11:09:44 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:48 add^_ [~add^_^@h153n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:56 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 11:10:07 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:12:51 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.9.45] has joined #lisp 11:13:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 11:13:28 wivlaro: iirc the argument list is bound to specal sb-int:arg-list -- or something like that 11:13:34 -!- Bahman_ [~Bahman@2.146.28.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:59 wivlaro: I always just stick (when (eql bar 1) (break)) in the function and recompile it 11:14:05 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CE397.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:38 wivlaro: but that's only for trace :encapsulate, i think 11:15:03 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 11:15:49 wivlaro: aha, (sb-debug:arg ) should work 11:16:35 ah index 11:16:38 thanks 11:17:09 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.71.233] has quit [Quit: bsod1] 11:17:43 aha that does the trick :) 11:18:01 Hey guys.. 11:18:25 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.227.83] has joined #lisp 11:18:58 Can anyone tell me a good place to get started in learning how to integrate databases with my lisp code? 11:19:06 i.e. SQL 11:19:39 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:17 mobydick_: CLSQL is a library for that 11:20:35 mobydick_: I like & use the Postmodern CL library, which works with only PostgreSQL 11:21:08 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:22:05 :Xach Thanks man, where is a good place to start learning about CLSQL? 11:22:12 naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-211-91.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:22:37 mobydick_: http://clsql.b9.com 11:22:42 You know there's one thing I still don't "get" about the condition/restart system and that's the flow of control in handlers? Where is control coming from? Where is it going? It still confuses me.. 11:22:43 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 11:25:46 :Xach sweet 11:26:50 ZabaQ: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/09_ad.htm help? 11:27:00 mobydick_: on IRC, the ":" is usually the suffix, not the prefix. 11:27:24 -!- gauge [~gauge@c-76-118-243-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 11:27:44 haha thanks man 11:28:15 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h153n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:28:22 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CE397.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:30:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:19 -!- naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-211-91.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 11:31:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:55 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-220-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:00 Xach: Yes :-) 11:32:59 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-113-59.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:34:26 add^_ [~add^_^@h232n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:27 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:49 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has joined #lisp 11:37:35 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-220-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:41:05 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:15 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:42:51 rvncerr [~rvncerr@85.10.202.107] has joined #lisp 11:42:53 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:24 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has joined #lisp 11:44:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:15 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 11:44:22 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has joined #lisp 11:44:46 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:27 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has joined #lisp 11:46:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.105.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:10 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-011-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:25 TDT [~user@173-23-13-45.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:34 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:59 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 11:52:42 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 11:54:14 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 11:55:44 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 11:55:46 mornfall_ [~mornfall@anna2.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 11:57:13 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:01:43 -!- foot-odor [~ali@95.76.74.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:02:25 lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:02:46 -!- loke [~elias@bb121-6-175-134.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:03:43 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:15 sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:42 pnq [~nick@AC81D81B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:07:33 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 12:09:50 loke [~elias@bb220-255-46-28.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:10:18 Are there some magic things that needs to be done in order for the SLIME debugger to disply source locations? (SBCL) 12:11:02 AFAIK, there's nothing special to do. 12:11:32 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:11:58 pjb: Hmm, I have never been aboe to get it to work... 12:13:09 a) the code needs to be compiled with compile-file 12:13:51 (until recently) 12:14:06 Well, I tried that too now. And typing :SOURCE in the debugger tells me: 12:14:10 # has no debug-block information. 12:14:32 that's no slime debugger 12:14:37 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-137-59.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:41 Nope. that's the native SBCL 12:14:52 I figured I'd elimite the chance of SLIME being the culprit 12:14:56 optimize debug 3 may help too. 12:15:13 2, rather 12:15:28 but it shouldn't matter, unless you have it set to 0 12:16:05 with debug 2 you'll get more finely grained locations 12:16:18 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host81-131-243-141.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:45 OK, thanks. :SOURCE now gives me the source form. Let's see if I can convince SLIME to work 12:17:24 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:31 I still only see the source form in the debugger. No reference to the source file. 12:17:45 How can I jump to the source code from a SLIME debugger frame? 12:17:57 -!- mornfall_ is now known as mornfall 12:17:57 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna2.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 12:17:57 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 12:18:13 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-24-8.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:18:26 M-. only jumps to the DEFUN, not the source line where the error happened. 12:22:07 snearch [~snearch@f053002004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:22:14 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:23:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:59 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.122.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:25:07 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 12:25:55 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 12:25:58 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:26:44 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:31:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:32:02 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:13 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 12:32:13 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:13 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 12:33:59 loke: press v 12:34:13 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 12:35:19 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:26 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:35:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:29 manuel_ [~manuel_@p5795C593.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:59 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 12:40:38 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 12:41:32 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:01 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 12:43:01 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 12:43:01 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:43:17 lisppaste problems: The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. / The proxy server could not handle the request GET /display/84252. 12:43:50 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:38 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-88.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-145-96.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:45:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:46:58 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-137-59.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:47:15 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CC905.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:55 sacho [~sacho@95-42-104-115.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 12:48:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:41 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 12:49:39 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-88.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:50:05 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:51:33 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:52:02 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:54:13 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-88-159.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:08 foot-odor [~ali@95.76.74.76] has joined #lisp 12:56:12 hello everybody 12:56:35 can anyone tell me how clisp works? 12:57:05 i want to use (count (quote (1 2 3))) and i'm getting EVAL: too few arguments given to COUNT: (COUNT '(1 2 3)) 12:57:05 The following restarts are available: 12:57:24 How many arguments does count expect? 12:57:38 i don't know 12:57:42 i'm trying to learn lisp 12:57:49 Do you know how to read? 12:57:51 <_6502_> may be you are realling looking for LENGTH, not COUNT 12:57:56 but the tutorials i've found online are not that good 12:58:09 Why aren't you reading the documentation for count? 12:58:22 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_countc.htm 12:58:34 Now I got the CVS SLIME working on SBCL 1.0.23 on FreeBSD 6.2, but the asdf:*central-registry* has some form in it, instead of a list. And requiring my own .asd does not work, it says don't know how to require my package. 12:58:36 can i find any good absolute-beginner-step-by-step-tutorial 12:58:47 do any of you know of such a thing? 12:58:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-88-159.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:58:57 Emacs is now 23.3 12:58:59 minion tell foot-odor about pcl 12:59:00 <_6502_> "practical common lisp" is not bad, and is free 12:59:02 foot-odor: Practical Common Lisp is nice 12:59:14 Assumes you're a programmer, though. 12:59:16 foot-odor: in general, check out the hyperspec first to see wha you're doing wrong 12:59:19 is it for total beginners? 12:59:27 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 12:59:31 Maybe there is some dependency that is not installed yet? Although i have quicklisp working. 12:59:39 for example: count item sequence &key from-end start end key test test-not => n 12:59:46 that already tells you you need to give two arguments, not one 13:00:05 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:00:22 is pcl abosolute beginner-friendly? 13:00:30 sure 13:00:31 foot-odor: absolutely not. 13:00:38 but maybe not beginning-programming friendly :> 13:00:39 foot-odor: PCL is written for programmers. 13:00:42 oh wait, you meant that 13:00:48 minion: tell foot-odor about gentle 13:00:48 foot-odor: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 13:00:55 foot-odor: this is for beginners. 13:00:55 i've spent hours reading On Lisp, which turned out to be too advanced, it expected me to already know lisp 13:01:05 foot-odor: indeed. 13:01:09 foot-odor: try gentle instead. 13:01:14 maybe you should learn a simpler language first? 13:01:36 what is a simpler language? 13:01:37 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:01:43 foot-odor: Lisp is simple -- you just need to read the documentation. 13:01:55 food-odor: How many arguments does count expect? 13:02:00 foot-odor: or "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation". 13:02:07 <_6502_> or you shoulod watch SICP videos.... http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 13:02:09 clhs count 13:02:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_countc.htm 13:02:14 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-28.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:22 you're telling it to count, but not what to count 13:02:32 Learn Python the Hard Way from Zed Shaw is pretty good to learn programming 13:02:34 i really wasn't expecting all this help 13:02:51 food-odor: Well? 13:02:59 #python and #java are usually people that tell you to go **** yourself if you are not a professional programmer 13:03:09 i bookmarked the books 13:03:30 <_6502_> python community is ok... i don't know java one tho 13:03:35 Now take 15 seconds to read the documentation for count and answer the question. 13:04:26 two Zhivago 13:04:37 food-odor: Well done -- so why are you only giving it one? 13:04:43 foot-odor: Second vote for SICP videos. And then some programming book for beginners, maybe gentle introduction. 13:04:55 <_6502_> or take 20 hours and watch the videos 13:05:01 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 13:05:11 i don't have time 13:05:15 Or just start reading the documentation when something strange happens ... 13:05:17 i have a lisp exam in like 2 weeks 13:05:31 foot-odor: So, what should you have passed to count? 13:05:41 i have to build a artificial intelligence plugin for a already existing game using lisp 13:05:43 in one year 13:05:52 o_O 13:06:03 Less talking; more answering. 13:06:04 <_6502_> and may read the nice essay: how to teach yourself programming in 10 years .... http://norvig.com/21-days.html 13:06:28 Would Land of Lisp be helpful? 13:06:34 Zhivago, i was supposed to say (count !insert number symbol here! (quote (1 2 3))) 13:06:57 foot: So, what would be a suitable 'number'? 13:07:05 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p5795C593.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 13:07:45 i'm not sure 13:07:50 and i supposed to create a regular expression? 13:07:58 nope 13:08:02 foot: Why would you need a regular expression for a number? 13:08:12 2 is a perfectly good number. 13:08:15 luis: ping 13:08:25 Zhivago, but i don't need to count only 2's 13:08:26 foot-odor: What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? 13:08:28 <_6502_> 6502 is also a nice number :-) 13:08:28 you just want to count numbers, right? so all you need is to know whether a given object is a number 13:08:45 foot: What do you need to count? 13:09:05 well the tutorial i am reading right now asked me to find out whether or not the number of elements in a list is even or odd 13:09:27 So, how do you tell how long a list is? 13:09:38 foot-odor: length, not count 13:10:03 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_sequen.htm 13:10:12 thank you :) 13:10:18 now i know how to use count and length 13:10:19 foot-odor: count checks how often something appears in a sequence; it does not tell you how many elements are in it. 13:10:30 No. You should have learned how to read the hyperspec. 13:10:41 foot-odor: I told you: 13:10:42 Odin-, can't i regex it to get the same output as lenght 13:10:43 clhs count 13:10:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_countc.htm 13:10:44 In which case, you can pretty much answer all of your questions. 13:10:52 There is also How to think like a computer scientist for Python http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/index.html and Programming Ruby http://www.rubycentral.com/pickaxe/ and Learning Ruby file:///Users/Shared/Kirjahylly/_Programming/_Languages/Ruby/learning-ruby/ 13:10:54 foot-odor: why didn't you read it? 13:11:00 What do regexes have to do with your problem? 13:11:06 pjb, i did read that 13:11:09 If you are looking something else than Lisp at first... ;-) 13:11:10 symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:13 but Zhivago asked me about count 13:11:22 Eventually you should learn Lisp though. 13:11:25 And you couldn't read the clhs count and answer him? 13:11:50 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 13:12:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:29 but i was reading that 13:12:33 foot-odor: Regexes are just pattern matching tools. You could conceivably combine them with the count variants to do some tricks, but that's not really needed. 13:12:35 that's how i answered him 13:13:04 foot-odor: count expects at leat two arguments: an item and a sequence (a vector or list) at minimum. 13:13:26 thanks peterhil :) 13:13:34 We've gotten past that point, and the next one (being why count is inappropriate) 13:13:35 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:46 Zhivago, i understood that as well 13:13:46 foot: So, how do you tell if a number is odd or even? Look in the hyperspec. 13:13:46 ok 13:13:48 thank you :) 13:14:00 what is this hyperspec 13:14:16 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 13:14:21 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:14:30 It's the Common Lisp language standard specification. 13:14:31 An online version of a draft of the Common Lisp standard. 13:14:54 "the fine manual" if you will :> 13:14:57 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-28.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:15:11 i was thinking (is_odd (x) (equals (rem x 2) 0)) 13:15:11 All implementations should work like described there 13:15:17 it'll tell you what functions expect and what they return 13:15:23 at least, that's what I use it for mainly 13:15:40 clhs evenp 13:15:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_evenpc.htm 13:16:02 the tutorial says first to make my own function 13:16:05 then to use evenp :P 13:16:05 <_6502_> hehehe ... (is_odd (x) (equals (rem x 2) 0)) is funny on many levels 13:16:11 for a better understanding 13:16:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16:24 foot-odor: Which tutorial would that be? 13:16:27 (zerop (rem x 2)) 13:16:43 Odin-, came with a lisp pack 13:16:44 someone gave me 13:16:45 <_6502_> except that if it's zero then the number is even :-) 13:17:12 that's odd! 13:17:26 stassats: instantrimshot.com 13:18:24 well, zero IS even 13:18:29 since it's followed by an odd number :> 13:18:44 foot-odor: Hm. I see. Well, I'd suggest looking through the books you were pointed at. They're pretty good. There's also a book aimed at beginners called "Land of Lisp", but I haven't read it myself, and it's not available for free... 13:19:04 Odin-, thanks but i'll look into the free books first 13:20:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:21:02 There is also (oddp n) 13:21:04 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:21:44 there's also (funcall (complement #'evenp) n) 13:22:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:22:22 <_6502_> there's also (/= x (ash (ash x -1) 1)) 13:23:17 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:49 and (logbitp 0 x) 13:24:21 and (ldb-test (byte 1 0) x) 13:26:13 and (logtest 1 x), damn lisp, there are so many ways to do it 13:26:45 :-) 13:27:07 (defun evenp (x) (not (oddp x))) 13:27:26 and (defun oddp (x) (not (evenp x))) 13:27:28 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:28:21 -!- loke [~elias@bb220-255-46-28.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:03 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:29:15 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:30:00 loke [~elias@bb121-6-24-233.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:30:12 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 13:30:29 what's wrong with 13:30:34 (let (the_list '(1 2 3)) 13:30:34 (print the_list)) 13:30:50 foot-odor: What is the syntax for let? 13:31:16 (let ((x 1) 13:31:16 (y 2)) 13:31:16 (print x) 13:31:16 (print y)) 13:31:20 that's what i found online 13:31:32 foot-odor: So, what does (let ((x 1)) ...) mean? 13:31:41 x = 1 13:31:48 foot-odor: And what did you write above? 13:32:05 do i have to double paranthesise even if there is just one element? 13:32:21 How would it know there is just one element if you give it two? 13:32:30 How can I select whole buffer in emacs? 13:32:33 <_6502_> that's actually sort of a lisp bug IMO... I mean the ability to say (let (x y z) ...) 13:32:58 I've used Aquamacs, which has the usual Mac style Command-A 13:33:26 foot-odor: in Common Lisp we use '-' as separator in symbols, not '_' 13:33:38 <_6502_> petheril: go to buffer begin and ctrl-shift-end ? 13:33:45 galdor, got it 13:34:13 foot-odor: Yes, the first argument to let is lambda-LIST. That's why. 13:34:42 is emacs the standard clisp editor? 13:35:16 not officially, but it's definitely the more powerful 13:35:17 No, Emacs is the standard programmer's editor. Especially for Lisp-like languages, but for others also. 13:35:41 i never liked emacs because of its custom shortcuts 13:35:58 Yeah, they are hard to memoize, but it's worth learning. 13:36:01 If only it had stuck to standard vi shortcuts ... 13:36:06 :-) 13:36:49 i mean like you don't ever use these shortcuts in other programs 13:37:02 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:43 Other programs? What heresy is this? 13:38:11 surely you don't use emacs as a web browser 13:38:14 or video player 13:38:19 Of course you do. They work fine in Irssi and xterm/bash. 13:38:28 You can, there is w3 browser. 13:38:38 Mplayer plays videos. 13:38:45 Or what was it called... 13:38:50 From Emacs or xterm. 13:39:27 <_6502_> foot-odor: and there's nothing really easier to more logical in "esc : w" in respect to "ctrl-x ctrl-s" :-) 13:39:41 <_6502_> to=or 13:40:01 There is also Emacspeak for the blind people that well proves the degree of customizability and power in Emacs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacspeak 13:40:11 let me get this straight 13:40:15 let creates a block 13:40:20 sort of { } in other languages 13:40:37 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:39 It's probably better to think of let as being a function call. 13:40:42 and whatever you assign at the beginning of let dies when the block ends 13:40:49 Yes, let creates a lexical scope for variables. 13:40:59 and setq is like let just that it doesn't create a block 13:41:08 but it also dies at the end of the block it's declared in 13:41:11 The variables defined in the lambda list only live as long as the let block. 13:41:13 (let ((a 1)) (+ a 1)) === (funcall (lambda (a) (+ a 1)) 1) 13:41:38 yea but for learning purposes i do things like 13:41:42 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:41:47 (let ((the-list '(1 2 3))) 13:41:47 (setq x (length the-list)) 13:41:47 (print x) 13:41:47 ) 13:41:49 so i see every step 13:42:06 Where did x come from? 13:42:24 testing setq 13:42:39 setq doesn't make variables. 13:42:49 So, where did x come from? 13:43:26 -!- mobydick_ [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:43:35 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43:41 nowhere i guess 13:43:54 Well, you'd better produce a variable x to assign there. 13:43:55 there is no previous x 13:44:00 Use let or defvar. 13:44:14 but it seams to be doing a good job 13:44:18 setq 13:44:22 Accidents will happen ... 13:44:26 even without defining it 13:44:28 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 13:44:33 add^_^ [~add^_^@h232n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 ? 13:45:06 The implementation is being kind to you -- but your code isn't correct. 13:45:59 You can use let* in that case, that evaluates all the forms in lambda list in a sequence, so you can do (let* ((the-list '(1 2 3)) (n-items (length the-list))) (print n-items)) 13:46:22 Or you could just write (print (length '(1 2 3))) 13:46:24 But what is the purpose of that code? 13:46:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.241.159] has joined #lisp 13:46:37 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h232n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:46:37 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 13:46:38 ^^That's much simpler and better 13:46:46 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:54 Less educational. 13:47:50 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:48:23 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:39 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:49:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:50:16 Is there something wrong with my ASDF? It seems I have to manually compile every file of my package to make it load? 13:50:47 (let ((the-list '(1 2 3 4))) 13:50:47 (defvar x (length the-list)) 13:50:47 (print x) 13:50:47 (evenp x) 13:50:47 ) 13:50:56 why do i get x as being 3? 13:50:59 and now 4? 13:51:07 -!- qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-255-143-248.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:18 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:51:26 It seems that ASDF is looking for the copmiled code in ~/.cache/common-lisp/... and the files in (truename of file in /var/tmp... 13:51:34 ...compiled 13:51:48 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:07 Zhivago: (let ((a 1)) (+ a 1)) === ((lambda (a) (+ a 1)) 1) ; there's no need for funcall. 13:53:32 pjb: You do like to make things extra confusing for people ... 13:53:41 pjb: I suspect that it goes with the gibberish. 13:53:41 it seams defvar doesnt work but setq does 13:53:51 foot-odor: How did you use defvar? 13:54:07 (defvar x (length the-list)) 13:54:26 defvar should be used at the top-level of the code -- not inside the let. 13:54:38 foot-odor: defvar doesn't assign values to variables. It creates variables! 13:54:41 clhs defvar 13:54:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 13:54:50 So, is let just a macro to bind values to the variables in lambdas? 13:54:51 foot-odor: there's no point in asking question here if you haven't read clhs first! 13:54:53 this lisp thing i really complicated 13:55:09 Only because you're very bad at reading. 13:55:18 Zhivago, that may be so 13:56:00 foot-odor: It might seem so at first if presented with things like how let works, but you can start simply. 13:56:04 foot-odor: Spend a few days reading Practical Common Lisp. I think you'll get a better idea of what you need to do. 13:56:16 foot-odor: read gentle! 13:56:32 pjb i'm trying to complete the tutorial i started first 13:56:36 ok. 13:56:47 Which tutorial is it? 13:57:11 it's a saved file 13:57:14 don't know from where 13:57:20 text file 13:57:55 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:08 hm. paste.lisp.org is throwing up proxy errors 13:58:20 it's not a very good tutorial 13:58:23 minion, tell foot-odor about PCL 13:58:23 foot-odor: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:58:33 okay okay 13:58:38 i will start reading pcl 13:59:52 foot-odor: Good idea 14:01:38 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:02:50 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.147.36] has joined #lisp 14:06:57 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.46] has joined #lisp 14:09:57 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:33 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.9.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.241.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:15 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-33-40-18.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:29 silenius [~silenus@p54947773.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:28 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 14:27:46 lisppaste is still down. The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. The proxy server could not handle the request GET /. 14:28:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.120.206] has joined #lisp 14:29:08 add^_^ [~add^_^@h44n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:30 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h232n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:11 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 14:31:28 -!- Guest6419 is now known as xristos 14:33:08 ebzzry [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has joined #lisp 14:36:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.120.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:21 lorenzo [~lorenzo@net-93-71-241-121.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 14:40:32 hi guys 14:40:40 hi guy 14:40:58 I'm a new lisper 14:41:18 Most welcome! 14:42:14 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 14:42:31 <_6502_> lorenzo: nice nick :-) ... italian ? 14:42:31 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:42:42 Yes, I'm italian 14:42:52 <_6502_> lorenzo: benvenuto allora :-) 14:43:03 grazie 14:44:46 *_6502_* is italian too 14:45:04 btw, I come from Python, but two weeks ago I received "The Little Schemer/The seasoned Schemer". I think there are both really simple books, but I can't understand what lambda do 14:45:10 can you help me? 14:45:20 lorenzo: Python has lambda, too. 14:45:30 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@86.36.49.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:34 <_6502_> lambda is also in python... 14:45:46 Yes, it has, but I never used Python with functional programming 14:46:03 I know that lambda create a function 14:46:04 but... 14:46:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.241.254] has joined #lisp 14:46:47 for example: (define (foo x) (display x)) 14:46:49 and (define foo (lambda (x) (display x)) 14:46:57 do the same thing 14:47:07 Sure. 14:47:09 why using lambda? 14:47:30 (foo (lambda () (bar))) 14:48:43 Sometimes you don't want to make a name. 14:49:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:19 (define f1 (lambda () (bar))) (foo f1) is more annoying. 14:49:49 lorenzo: lambda does what 3.141592 does vs. pi. 14:49:57 <_6502_> lorenzo: it's the other way around... define for functions is just a shortcut for what really happens (i.e. you bind a name to a function object) 14:50:17 lorenzo: lambda allows you to write literal functions, instead of defining constant functions. 14:50:20 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 14:50:45 for example, in my book I founded this code: 14:50:51 (define foo 14:50:51 (lambda (x) 14:50:51 (lambda (y) 14:50:51 (eq? x y)))) 14:50:56 lorenzo: In math you may write: f: N->N / x|->x+3 ; this is a constant function, You can call it with f(2). 14:51:00 lorenzo: In functional programming, you're able to create functions on the fly and pass them around, or return them from other function. Lambda simply allows you to create a function. 14:51:40 <_6502_> founded=found 14:51:44 lorenzo: Instead you can talk of the function x|->x+2 ; this is a literal function, You can call it with (x|->x+2)(4) = 6 14:51:54 if I call that function with (foo 1 2) it raise an error 14:51:58 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:52:02 lorenzo: so lambda is just that: x.x+2 14:52:42 <_6502_> lorenzo: you should call with ((foo 1) 2)... foo is a function that given X returns a function that tells if what you pass is equal to X 14:53:11 lorenzo: so lambda is just that: x.x+2 ; sorry. 14:53:22 kk 14:53:26 thanks! 14:53:29 lorenzo:  just makes a function, which is a completely orthogonal thing to giving it a name 14:53:54 ((lambda (x) (+ 2 x)) 4) --> 6 14:54:14 lorenzo: however, to the difference of scheme which is a lisp-1, Common Lisp is a lisp-2. 14:54:35 So: (let ((f (lambda (x) (+ x 2)))) (f 4)) --> 6 in scheme, but 14:54:44 (let ((f (lambda (x) (+ x 2)))) (funcall f 4)) --> 6 in Common Lisp, but 14:54:52 s/, but/./ 14:55:35 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81D81B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:40 lorenzo: you might want to ask questions about The Little Schemer in #scheme. 14:55:43 <_6502_> pjb: what's that ? are you using VI???? confess! 14:56:02 ok pjb 14:56:06 _6502_: I don't know, I typed what I usually type to get a . 14:56:08 thanks for your help 14:56:30 <_6502_> pjb: i mean the correction with s/.../ :-) 14:56:43 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 14:56:50 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:56:50 see also sed 14:57:00 _6502_: granted, but it's also conventionnal on irc. Eg. if you type that in skype it will also correct the previous message. 14:57:02 I was a bit confused, because I usually solve problems thinking with OOP, and functional programming is very different 14:57:14 lorenzo: not really. 14:57:15 <_6502_> a true lisper would use ctrl-meta-shift-5 :-D 14:57:27 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 14:57:40 lorenzo: technically, lambda actually defines a closure (enclosing the free variables), and a closure is equivalent to an object. 14:57:46 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75551b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:35 lorenzo: where there's a difference is that in pure functionnal programming style, we don't mutate state, while an object holds state and usually has method to mutate itself. 14:58:54 lorenzo: but you can also define immutable objects, with only purely functional methods. 14:59:08 There's no way to change such objects, you must create new objects when you want to memorize new state. 14:59:19 Just like in any purely functionnal program. 15:00:29 Of course, scheme and CL are procedural languages. 15:00:35 Like python. 15:00:44 They just facilitate a functional style. 15:01:02 lorenzo: well, what Zhivago said is mostly meaningless. 15:01:09 maybe they are technically similar, Zhivago, Python is Object Oriented 15:01:25 oh sorry 15:01:30 Object Oriented doesn't mean anything. 15:01:50 And functional either. 15:01:51 <_6502_> Java is object obsessed 15:01:57 hahah 15:02:15 Python and Lisp are both procedural in that they perform operations over time. 15:02:17 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 15:03:11 So you can have as many mutations and side-effects as you like. 15:03:22 They're just discouraged on the grounds of being tricky to manage properly. 15:04:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:00 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 15:07:37 -!- lorenzo [~lorenzo@net-93-71-241-121.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:41 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:16:46 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:19 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947773.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:30 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:50 hmm..paste is down again 15:18:11 Zhivago: remember how i was asking about embedding newlines into strings? 15:18:42 Zhivago: i wrote a reader macro to do c-style strings: #"hello\tworld\r\n"# 15:18:57 Zhivago: interesting project...learned a lot 15:19:16 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [Quit: upgrade] 15:21:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-77.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:21:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-0-77.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 -!- foot-odor [~ali@95.76.74.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:13 operative [~null@70.234.134.35] has joined #lisp 15:23:13 cl-interpol is doing that, good for practice anyway 15:23:27 yes, just for practice really 15:23:52 i've pasted a couple of versions for critisism (which i got plenty of) but I think i'm at a final version that i'm happy with 15:24:02 but since paste is down can't really share it atm 15:24:29 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:24:48 kruhft: http://pastebin.com untasty as it is... 15:25:07 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CC905.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:34 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 15:25:41 can't seem to find it "Looking up pastebin.com..." 15:26:18 There are other services. Google paste bin 15:26:19 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:24 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.241.254] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:28:41 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:48 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:21 dropoff.org 15:31:22 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:52 http://pastebin.com/j2ZakB6c - probably last version of #"-reader macro 15:33:12 -!- elliottcable is now known as ryyvbggpnoyr 15:34:01 syntax highlighting is a bit screwed up though 15:35:10 -!- ryyvbggpnoyr is now known as nyrktbeqba 15:39:22 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:39:56 kruhft: i'd have expected #"..." instead of #"..."# 15:39:56 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:23 -!- nyrktbeqba is now known as elliottcable 15:40:26 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:40:34 I'd guess it would not confuse the syntax highlighter. 15:41:55 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.122.58] has joined #lisp 15:42:14 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 15:42:22 -!- Pathin_ [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:23 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-50-99.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:44:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:44:25 kruhft: that's somewhat better. Have a look at mine: http://pastebin.com/0c5E8Hvy ; it can process also \012 and \x89ab escapes. 15:44:35 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:48 SpinDoctor [456cea51@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.108.234.81] has joined #lisp 15:45:00 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-8.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:45:38 chubba [~dmitry@unaffiliated/chubba] has joined #lisp 15:45:41 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.75.33] has joined #lisp 15:46:12 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:46:32 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:02 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-49-204.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:48:30 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.202] has joined #lisp 15:50:27 -!- chubba [~dmitry@unaffiliated/chubba] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:33 Xach: then could couldn't leave " unquoted in the string...which i guess isn't really like C strings...good point 15:53:38 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-50-99.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 15:55:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:56:06 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 15:57:20 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.75.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:16 -!- Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:33 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.245.247] has joined #lisp 15:59:47 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.122.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:02:12 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 16:03:53 pnq [~nick@AC811DE0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:58 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-104-115.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:46 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 pjb: i thought octals were specified by \onnn 16:06:00 maybe i looked at the wrong c reference... 16:07:06 kruhft: not in C string or character literals. 16:07:34 and i didn't know about #\page and #\vt 16:07:38 what's #\vt? 16:07:51 Vertical Tabulation. 16:07:59 vt is a semi-standard character name. 16:08:05 ok 16:08:16 and i was also wondering about \xnnnn sequences 16:08:29 When the character set contains a pseudo-character corresponding to a control code having the vertical tab function, it should be #\vt. 16:08:37 i think sbcl does unicode, but would it be protable? 16:08:49 ie. does code-char work with values greater than 255? 16:08:51 kruhft: other implementations use unicode character names too. 16:09:01 kruhft: implementation dependant. 16:09:08 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 16:09:08 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 16:09:11 ok, thanks 16:09:18 kruhft: but it's ok, since the C standard let it implementation dependant too. 16:09:44 so \nnn is octal not \onnn 16:09:56 in char or string literals, yes. 16:10:11 http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/C++0xFAQ.html 16:10:11 been programming in c for years but i don't think i've ever used octal there :) 16:10:18 '\0' 16:10:27 You never wrote '\o0' 16:10:32 oh yeah... 16:10:46 so it can be \n, \nn and \nnn 16:10:56 Yes. 16:11:05 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:09 ok, i'll modify to handle that 16:11:10 It stops at the first non octal, or at 3 digits. 16:11:23 On the other hand \x doesn't limit the number of hex digits. 16:11:26 thanks, good ot know 16:11:40 ok, another good thing to know 16:11:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:01 There's a trick in C to split it up in bad situations: "\x41""12" --> "A12" 16:12:17 Any space or comment are allowed between " and " in "". 16:12:35 i'm aware of that 16:12:41 but besides the deficiencies, is my lisp code ok? 16:12:43 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 16:12:50 kruhft: it would be funny to try to replicate it in the reader macro. 16:12:56 one thing i couldn't figure out how to do portably was my error handling 16:13:15 yes, that would be interesting to handle in the read macro, might be tricky though 16:13:17 kruhft: mostly possible, but for some obscure interactions with *read-suppress*... 16:13:36 or perhaps read-preserving-whitespace. 16:13:43 silenius [~silenus@p54947773.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 kruhft: you can handler a superclass of the error. 16:13:52 never heard of *read-supress* but i'm getting used to that now...lots of things to learn 16:14:19 how would i go about finding the superclass for the error? 16:15:46 (CLOS:CLASS-DIRECT-SUPERCLASSES (find-class 'sb-int::SIMPLE-PARSE-ERROR)) 16:16:23 hmm...package CLOS not found in sbcl 16:16:24 or perhaps (ql:quickload :closer-mop) before (CLOSer-mop:CLASS-DIRECT-SUPERCLASSES (find-class 'sb-int::SIMPLE-PARSE-ERROR)) 16:16:48 that worked 16:16:56 i still get (# 16:16:56 #) 16:17:05 still sb specific 16:17:11 just keep going up the tree? 16:17:14 Yes. 16:17:34 Parse-error is a standard condition type. 16:18:29 well i kept going up and finally got to (#) 16:18:37 pretty non-specific 16:19:04 but the only one that didn't depend on sb-pcl: 16:20:18 orivej [~orivej@host-51-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-107.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:23:26 HG` [~HG@p579F72F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:15 kruhft: the home package of symbols exported from a package is not necessarily this package, even when it's CL. 16:24:36 kai__ [~kai@e179018142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:24:44 -!- kai__ is now known as wetnosed 16:24:46 Furthermore, the metaclass of condition is not specified: it can be in any package. 16:24:54 PARSE-ERROR is interned in your current package. 16:25:05 And as I said, it's exported from CL!!! 16:29:09 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:25 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 16:31:04 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179020221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:31:51 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811DE0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32:01 -!- symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:43 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179018142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:10 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:34:43 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75551b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:38 so technically i could just handler-case on PARSE-ERROR rather than SB-INT:SIMPLE-PARSE-ERROR? 16:37:18 I think so. Is parse-integer specified to signal a SB-INT:SIMPLE-PARSE-ERROR or a PARSE-ERROR? 16:37:21 clhs parse-integer 16:37:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm 16:37:55 ok, i'll try that 16:38:41 yup, seems to work, thanks 16:39:13 one thing has been bugging me 16:39:22 what kind of errors does unwind-protect catch? 16:39:26 None. 16:39:33 then what's the point? 16:39:37 of having it 16:39:51 i started out thinking that would be something to use but found it didn't catch anything 16:39:56 so i found out about handler-case 16:39:58 to clean up when a any kind of exit occurs, whether local or non-local. 16:40:18 using return and return-from and throw? 16:40:25 and signaling errors too. 16:40:25 kruhft: it's not used to catch errors 16:40:42 what do you mean signaling errors? 16:40:51 how would you signal an error? 16:41:20 signaling an error is the general mechanism. The way it's handled depends on the presence of handlers, and whether they're defined with handler-case or handler-bind. 16:41:41 using (error ...)? 16:41:52 kruhft: the normal way to signal an condition is ERROR, or CERROR, but you may also signal one with SIGNAL. 16:42:00 errors are just a special case of conditions. 16:42:19 but then i thought that unwind-protect wouldn't catch them 16:42:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:34 unwind-protect DOES NOT CATCH anything. 16:42:41 ok 16:42:49 it just ensures that the cleanup forms are executed when anything exits from its dynamical scope. 16:43:05 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 16:43:38 clhs unwind-protect 16:43:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_unwind.htm 16:43:42 see it by yourself! 16:43:43 ok, i thought it behaved differently...i'm sure i'll understand someday 16:43:51 read the clhs. 16:44:06 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 16:44:22 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/05_b.htm 16:47:05 starting to get it a bit, might be a while before i really get it 16:47:30 A typical example of unwind-protect can be seen in with-open-file. 16:47:54 (macroexpand '(with-open-file (stream "file") (do-something stream))) 16:48:08 (pprint (macroexpand '(with-open-file (stream "file") (do-something stream)))) 16:49:19 i guess i just thought it had more to do with the error/condition system...i'm starting to see now 16:49:31 and that would explain why it doesn't do what i expected it to do :) 16:49:45 probably. 16:49:58 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:50:01 pjb: have you read Let Over Lambda? 16:50:14 Not yet. 16:50:18 i just finished reading it 16:50:22 quite interesting 16:50:43 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:50:43 not sure how much i would use if i wanted other people to understand my code 16:50:45 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:03 but it does show some interesting things you can do with macros 16:51:07 It is often used in macros. 16:51:21 what is? 16:51:40 unwind-protect. 16:51:45 ah 16:52:14 pjb: do you do any web development? 16:52:29 Not usually. 16:53:01 i'm starting to get into it with lisp... the whole hunchentoot/ch-who/parenscript combination seems like it could be interesting 16:53:21 mostly if just for the consistent indentation it provides :) 16:54:27 my girlfriend keeps bugging me about making websites so i figure i should be able to use whatever i want if i make them and i've always wanted to use lisp for something... 16:54:53 Paul Graham made his fortune writing a web app with clisp., 16:55:17 And he didn't even have hunchentoot, cl-who and sbcl at that time! 16:56:44 nor arc! 16:57:51 Xach: he probably would've failed if he'd have had arc back then 16:57:57 j/k 16:58:41 kruhft: an example of hunchentoot web app: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=public/game/mine&hb=HEAD&f= 16:59:09 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:00:28 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:02:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:02:50 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 17:05:11 pjb: thanks 17:05:57 Jods [~jods@62.76.93.4] has joined #lisp 17:07:36 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:08:17 Xach: is there any particular reason that clsql-oracle is not in QL? 17:08:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:09:02 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A50BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:40 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:45 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955E014.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:48 loke: I can't get an oracle client library set up, so it doesn't build. I need to work harder at it. 17:11:32 You mean you don't have the client library itself? 17:11:39 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:12 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:12:29 loke: Right. 17:13:22 Xach: I have all of that. Anything I can do to help? 17:14:04 loke: a .deb would be awesome. 17:14:29 Otherwise, point me to where I can get it from oracle along with installation instructions... 17:15:43 Xach: it's a plain directory. There are no installers or anything. 17:15:45 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 17:15:57 Xach: I setup up a oracle instant client on oracle this week, using alien to convert the rpms 17:15:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 wish I could say it was easy 17:16:14 Xach: I'm just about to go to sleep. I'll help you out when I get to the office tomorrow. 17:16:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:55 Xach: if possible, just send me an email so that I 1) Don't forget and 2) Have your contact info. :-0 17:17:12 you do need some env vars set, so it's a little more than a plain directory 17:17:48 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:20:09 kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-105-118.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:14 sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:20:40 Guthur: well, yes, but technically you don't need that when building against it. 17:21:01 Guthur: esp. for FFI where you don't even need the header files. 17:21:28 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 17:21:57 C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 17:23:34 -!- nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-8.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:24:09 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:45 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:28:16 slash_ [~unknown@pD955B3F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:49 foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.222.162] has joined #lisp 17:29:52 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:16 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 17:33:31 Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:34:11 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947773.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:55 urandom__ [~user@p548A6B45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:09 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:32 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:55 Jasko [~tjasko@otwbsc01.oceanic.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:31 -!- somnium`` [~user@adsl-184-42-2-149.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:46:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:19 What is the "normal" way to handle deployment of cl webapps? 17:47:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:39 wccoder: i don't know what's normal, but i use screen. 17:49:02 wccoder: detachtty is a simpler alternative to screen 17:49:41 And there is mod_lisp, that can be used to make Apache send lisp requests to a lisp process 17:49:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:50:07 I don't think anyone uses that for new projects any more. 17:50:59 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h44n2c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:00 I use screen as well. People say that detachtty is simpler, but I find screen to be very easy and flexible 17:51:54 I'm taking a serious look at ucw for a new project (which I would normally use symfony or rails for) - would it be better to use a lisp-based http server, or mod_lisp? 17:52:04 I'm familiar enough with screen to use it 17:52:25 wccoder: i like to put a lisp-based http server behind a nginx proxy. 17:52:59 i use nginx to serve static images from the filesystem. sometimes those image files are generated by lisp programs. 17:53:08 static resources in general, not just images. 17:53:12 that makes sense 17:53:17 css and js get served statically 17:53:50 what's the biggest reason for using the lisp-based http server and not mod_lisp? 17:54:07 hunchentoot doesn't speak mod_lisp, and i use hunchentoot. 17:54:20 the best reason is that there are no reasons to use mod_lisp 17:54:25 nothing that speaks mod_lisp is under current development. 17:54:33 mod_lisp is a little easier to parse than http. 17:55:15 good thing you don't need to parse it yourself 17:55:27 morning 17:56:28 *slyrus* wishes xach didn't have to do that and that there were a lispy, performant web server that would obviate the need for nginx 17:56:31 ok, i actually like the proxy idea a lot - i use VPS and would rather write code than tweak apache, which i've never been able to do properly on a VPS 17:56:56 *Xach* doesn't mind so far 17:58:48 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:01:13 you don't need nginx, you can use lighttpd instead 18:02:01 *wccoder* uses lighttpd on VPS (EC2, Xen) and it works well 18:02:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.245.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:02:13 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 18:02:20 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:41 the only thing i don't like is lack of .htaccess but i'm sure there are workarounds since i last looked for one 18:04:06 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.254.218] has joined #lisp 18:05:06 -!- Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:45 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:10:50 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:11:55 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.254.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:44 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.233.70] has joined #lisp 18:16:40 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F72F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:31 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:36 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-102-6.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:42 slyrus: nginx is a fairly minor sacrifice 18:20:00 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:03 and it is much better at serving static files than any lisp webserver is likely to be for the forseeable future 18:20:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.233.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:18 (also, holding open many thousands of keepalive-d HTTP connections) 18:20:21 I don't think that's especially true. 18:20:29 Someone just needs to write it. 18:20:48 There's little pressure from my perspective since nginx (or whatever) and proxying work fine today. 18:20:51 there's not much incentive to write it, though 18:21:04 oh, I'm sure it's possible, I just don't think anyone will do it 18:21:04 True. Hacks and glory. 18:21:10 someone just needs to pay for it! 18:22:39 and nginx has support for the standard log formats, compression, this that and the other; totally replacing it would be a lot of work for no great benefit 18:23:15 hi 18:23:43 Hacks and glory are pretty sweet 18:23:56 Everyone remembers the name of the dude that wrote that thing 18:24:02 Ol' what's-his-name 18:25:04 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:25:15 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:17 im confused that if format is a function how this code would work. 18:25:21 (format t "~:[FAIL~;pass~] ... ~a~%" (= (+ 1 2) 3) '(= (+ 1 2) 3)) 18:25:36 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:25:45 first t evals, then "~:[FAIL~;pass~] ... ~a~%" and then .... 18:26:00 and then everything else is evaluated 18:26:03 what's the problem? 18:26:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@otwbsc01.oceanic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:26:22 i think i should check its body 18:26:38 can i see its code ? 18:26:50 whose code? 18:26:59 FORMAT i mean. 18:27:02 -!- Yuzu- [~yuzuchan@p5052-ipad406osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:11 you can, but why do you need to? 18:27:36 to understand what it's doing 18:27:51 why do you need to understand that? 18:28:13 if you want to understand what it should be doing, and not how, read CLHS 18:28:28 or something more gentle like practical common lisp 18:29:25 ok ... 18:29:56 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:30:24 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 anyway, what's the best way for seeing source code in lisp ? 18:30:35 i mean's built-ins 18:31:08 i'm not sure what you mean 18:31:43 for example in Java you can check JDK source codes by adding source to your IDE 18:32:21 dont know if there is same way in lisp 18:32:25 assuming correctly set up sbcl and slime M-. will take you there 18:32:41 (and presumably so for other impls as well) 18:33:08 you just need to tell the system where the sources are 18:33:15 any keybinding in slime ? 18:33:30 nikodemus just told you it! 18:33:46 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-74-52.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:33:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-74-52.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 18:34:04 sorry, didn't saw the " . " ! 18:34:05 but, frankly, if you don't understand how FORMAT can be a function, I doubt you'll gain much from trying to read its source. 18:34:18 agreed 18:35:02 but you can use it for other functions, like CAR, it has a very clear definition (defun car (list) (car list)) 18:35:50 i know it in black box way ! just input and outputs just curious how it's been implemented. 18:36:53 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:37:52 the M-. output is Odd ! 18:40:40 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-166-48.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:47 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-166-48.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:57 -!- y3llow_ is now known as y3llow 18:44:52 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-102-6.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:34 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-102-6.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 18:48:01 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #lisp 18:48:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:49:00 How do you read and write real numbers in a binary file? 18:49:33 clhs decode-float 18:49:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dec_fl.htm 18:50:03 Thank you. 18:50:17 minion: ieee-floats? 18:50:17 ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary format representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 18:50:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:52:07 -!- Jods [~jods@62.76.93.4] has quit [Quit: ] 18:52:23 What's the cleanest way to get the string-name of a symbol without getting the package qualifier? E.g. foo instead of package::foo - I know it can be done by binding a new *package* to the symbol's package before calling (string, wonder if there is something prettier. 18:52:48 clhs symbol-name 18:52:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_2.htm 18:53:31 but calling STRING will do the same, so i don't think i understood you then 18:53:41 segyr [~terje@213.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 18:53:51 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has joined #lisp 18:59:34 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 19:01:10 mgampkay [~mgampkay@14.145.60.229] has joined #lisp 19:01:27 -!- mgampkay [~mgampkay@14.145.60.229] has left #lisp 19:02:45 when we make an :adjustable array's, will this act always like ordinary array, i mean will this be always in consecutive place's in memory ? 19:03:13 there are no guarantees about that even for simple arrays 19:05:31 stassats: so there is no real difference in performance ? 19:05:46 i didn't say that 19:05:58 i just say that you can't know it 19:06:19 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e179020221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:06:32 ok 19:06:38 wetnosed [~kai@e179016155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:56 in reality, simple arrays are expected to be faster 19:07:17 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C0312.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:52 just curious what does the interpreter do when we start to changing the size of the array. 19:09:07 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 19:09:14 if it copies it entirely in other place of memory ... or ... 19:09:56 wetnosed_ [~kai@e177089000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:52 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179016155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:03 first, don't call it "interpreter", because it most probably isn't 19:11:18 wetnosed [~kai@f052096008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:25 reader it is ? 19:11:38 it's called "an implementation" 19:12:53 so there is no spec in lisp by itself for such a way's. 19:13:10 wetnose__ [~kai@e179012122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:13:30 the spec specifies what implementations should do, not how they should do it 19:14:07 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e177089000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:12 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:23 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 19:14:26 so the answer differs in each implementation. 19:14:46 exactly 19:15:19 -!- wetnosed [~kai@f052096008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:41 there are some common trends, but details may differ 19:16:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:16:39 the spec does not prohibit magical leprechauns doing the work behind the scenes :> 19:17:33 the "undefined" behaviour can be quite fun, too 19:17:46 leprechaun lisp does have a ring to it 19:18:05 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:18:13 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C0312.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:18:38 I do kind of want to see an "anti-implementation" that does everything in the weirdest or dumbest way possible while still conforming. 19:18:59 p_l|backup: yeah, most of the thing's happens behind the scenes ! 19:20:15 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 19:23:38 Bike1: i believe it's called "clisp" 19:24:03 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 19:24:14 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:03 stassats: no. clisp is a very good implementation. 19:25:40 stassats: see what you've done! One fewer lisp newbie. 19:26:22 he stopped being a newbie? 19:26:51 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:26:55 no one ever stops being a newbie :3 19:27:35 not until you grow a gray beard 19:27:39 stassats: ok, this time it was /nick, not /leave; You're lucky. 19:28:26 but really, clisp has some obnoxious ideas about being too conforming 19:29:17 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:30:48 stassats: too conforming? 19:32:14 madnificent: lies! It even an option -ansi that you can avoid giving it to make it less conforming. 19:32:19 +has 19:32:36 madnificent: yes, e.g., rename-file doesn't work on directories 19:32:48 minion: tell me about pcl 19:32:49 pjb: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:33:40 *madnificent* reads the spec for rename-file 19:33:50 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:34:02 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:05 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:34:58 stassats: that's still allowed by the spec, is't it? It doesn't seem to dictate anything about directories... 19:35:04 or am I missing something? 19:35:15 granted, pathnames are extremely obnoxious by itself, but clips doesn't make it any easier 19:35:17 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 19:35:19 c/clips/clisp/ 19:36:00 accepted :) 19:36:24 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:18 madnificent: there is no clear distinction between files and directories in cl 19:37:30 and even then they're implementation dependent 19:37:59 well, files and directories are itself a unique way to organize a system 19:38:07 yes, that's how I interpreted it. 19:38:19 stassats: there is a VERY STRONG distinction between file and directory PATHNAMES in CL. 19:38:36 *madnificent* finds pathnames to be very complex for it's practical uses 19:38:37 that's still allowed by the spec, is't it? <-- That's the point, isn't it? 19:38:55 it's not disallowed 19:39:07 That you can conform, but still have bad/etc. behavior. 19:39:27 pjb: if only that were true 19:39:28 I notice that some systems, such as DVCS deal with directories by just ignoring them. They only store files. 19:39:55 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:39:57 stassats: compare #P"EXAMPLE:A;B;" and #P"EXAMPLE:A;B" 19:40:07 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:11 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:16 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:22 well, it can easily mean the same thing 19:40:22 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:41 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:22 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 19:41:32 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:42 "The mapping of the pathname components into the concepts peculiar to each file system is implementation-defined" 19:43:31 and since cl doesn't provide any means for working with directories, it's sensible to conflate them with files on platforms which they can't coexist 19:43:46 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:40 (besides DIRECTORY, and ENSURE-DIRECTORY-EXISTS) 19:51:35 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:57 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.147.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:35 stassats: it's idiotic to conflate them, even on unix. 19:54:39 -!- gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:18 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:56:24 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 19:56:47 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:57:00 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:58:37 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053002004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:59:36 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 20:02:10 stassats: perhaps it should be clarified what is to be expected in certain scenarios, like for instance unix and windows filesystems. 20:02:27 it'd be an informal clarification, but it could be handy 20:02:50 i'm all for having directories as first class citizens, but they aren't in cl 20:03:08 madnificent: I had a lot of success with my check-pathnames message at the beginning of the year. 20:03:30 I mean wrt rename-file and such 20:04:22 pjb: I think I forgot it 20:06:11 madnificent: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/900e4a4f858d17c9/7d1f779adaf9d3da?hl=en&q=group:comp.lang.lisp+check-pathnames+author:pascal+author:bourguignon#7d1f779adaf9d3da 20:06:30 Granted, I should have been more active on this front, I've been low the first trimestre. 20:06:59 s/trimestre/quarter/ 20:10:32 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:11:12 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 20:13:16 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:13:44 pjb: worked on my c-string reader 20:14:04 pjb: handles \nnn (octal) and \xn... 20:14:27 pjb: also added \Bn.. (binary) and \dn... (decimal) 20:14:38 pbj: and it handles "" string concatenation 20:14:49 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:54 You cannot do that, the C standard explicitely requires a diagnostic message for unspecified escapes. 20:14:59 pbj: #"\d43""13"# -> "+13" 20:15:08 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:15:08 With spaces in between? 20:15:18 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:15:18 hmm, no not with spacew 20:15:21 er spaces 20:15:25 #"\d43" #| spaces, newlines, comments |# "13"# - 20:15:48 i could add it, didn't think of more than just "" 20:15:55 pjb: interesting read. clisp didn't take part in this? 20:15:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:15:58 #| comments are hard to deal with. ; comments could be dealt with. 20:16:20 madnificent: It did. I did all the implementations I run. 20:16:41 I posted bug reports. I'd need to follow them up. 20:17:00 pbj: hmm...handling all that would end up being more than what i've already done i think... 20:17:18 pjb: ah, so it'll get solved in the future :) 20:17:29 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 20:17:32 pjb: i just added the case of "" so you could terminate \xn... like you pointed out 20:17:35 Eventually, I hope so. 20:17:43 madnificent: even if I had to patch all the implementations :-0 20:18:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:22 thanks pjb 20:18:30 kruhft: Notice that if followed by a non hex digit, you don't need it: "\x41z" --> "Az" 20:18:40 yes, i've handled that 20:18:44 Good. 20:19:01 i made a pretty general read-upto-n-char-radix-stream function 20:19:06 And make it modular, so you can chose another macro character. 20:19:30 not sure how i would do that 20:19:37 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.112.204] has joined #lisp 20:19:38 For example, you could choose to bind it to #\" instead of to dispatch it on #\# #\". 20:19:49 you could just change the macro character when setting it 20:20:00 the only problem i have is that it sort of requires "# at the end 20:20:01 Compare the requirements on the reader macro and on the dispatching reader macros, and call the same function from both. 20:20:05 to handle the "" case 20:20:18 kruhft: yes, you need to parameterize them. 20:20:47 like create a function to install the read macro that takes parameters? 20:20:51 kruhft: You don't need the "#, you can use unread-char (on a single character). 20:21:10 kruhft: and peek-char too, to skip spaces. 20:21:52 the thing i was wondering about is what does read-char in a read macro return at the end of the input string? 20:22:14 clhs read-char 20:22:14 does it just wait for more input? i had some wierd cases trying to use the normal termination character and it just hung waiting for more characters. 20:22:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_cha.htm 20:22:34 most input routine take an eof-error-p and an eof-value parameter. 20:22:52 it never seemed to give an error though...the behaviour was a bit odd 20:23:13 Try: (with-input-from-string (inp "abc") (loop do (read-char inp))) 20:23:23 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:23:36 plus unread-char doesn't seem to work very well with slime interaction...i'm not sure if i've run into a bug iwth slime but debugging this read macro does't seem to work very well with it 20:23:50 kruhft: I'm yet to see any reader macro work with slime. 20:24:12 In slime-repl it's ok, but from a source buffer, slime is not strong enough. 20:24:12 ok...i've just been testing through the console 20:24:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:36 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:27:39 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:50 pbj: ok, figured out how not to need the "# at the end 20:28:31 oops, i mean pjb...should use my completion 20:29:04 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:29:34 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:38 ec2-user [~ec2-user@ec2-50-16-101-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:47 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:29 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:32:45 comatose_kid [~comatose_@c-24-6-139-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 oh gods here we go again 20:35:24 "which package are you talking about, ho diddly-dum dee" 20:38:19 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:46 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 20:41:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:42:58 how can i tell the home package of a symbol? 20:43:22 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:43:40 clhs symbol-package 20:43:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_3.htm 20:45:07 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:45:16 thanks 20:45:24 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@c-24-6-139-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:46:57 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:28 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:47:37 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.30] has joined #lisp 20:48:40 Landr: notice that the home package is not necessarily the package from which you want to use the symbol. 20:48:59 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:03 indeed, i'm back to struggling with ht-simple-ajax because i can't remember how i fixed it the last time 20:49:04 (defpackage "EXAMPLE-CL" (:use "CL") (:export "DEFUN" "CONS" "CAR" CDR" "COND" "NULL")) 20:49:28 (symbol-package example-cl:cons) --> # but you want to consider only the example-cl package. 20:50:13 texample-cl::cons ? 20:50:27 or unintern cl::cons, i guess, hmm 20:51:06 Landr: no it's exported, so example-cl:cons. 20:51:41 And no, I didn't shadow them, it's the symbol CL:CONS that is exported from example-cl, that's why (symbol-package 'example-cl:cons) is #. 20:52:21 Ron Garret wrote a tutorial about packages, search it and read it. 20:52:24 well yes, it's interned in example-cl, but it belongs in cl 20:52:35 i think i read it before 20:52:43 It's not interned in example-cl, it's used there. 20:52:47 read it again. 20:52:50 clhs defpackage 20:52:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 20:53:59 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.202] has joined #lisp 20:59:17 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl12-79-88.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:03:56 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-201-99.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:01 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 21:06:18 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 21:06:20 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:57 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6B45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:32 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.112.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:59 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.15.115] has joined #lisp 21:14:12 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.15.115] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:22 rvirding [~chatzilla@h139n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:36 Did anyone do the research? What's the fastest way to select concrete function by type? 21:16:05 by arguments' types. 21:16:13 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75551b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:21 ensure-class's lambda list ? 21:19:21 naryl: the fastest way is to cache it once 21:19:30 i think it has a map of it from general type or superclass to the proper subclasses, from general to particular 21:19:53 -!- segyr [~terje@213.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: segyr] 21:20:13 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:02 pnq [~nick@AC8142FC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:47 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-254.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:22:10 hi 21:23:29 hi hi 21:23:33 I was wondering if anyone trying out Dto's Ioforms has managed to get the example game running? 21:23:39 suncica2222 [dfgfdgdfgd@P1-123.internet.krstarica.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:42 nope 21:23:45 not yet 21:23:48 at least me n ot 21:24:01 I'm getting a memory fault 21:24:07 it's not even in alpha stage afaik 21:24:17 he's working on it 21:24:27 I think the alpha was just released, couple days ago 21:24:31 oh 21:24:35 i missed that then 21:24:36 http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/2011/05/ioforms-alpha-release-now-available.html 21:25:34 I followed https://github.com/dto/ioforms/blob/develop/INSTALL with now problems, but when trying to run the example, memory fault 21:25:41 s/now/no 21:29:25 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:40 -!- CrazyEddy [~whiteblow@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:11 well alpha is alpha, it may have bugs yet, or you did something wrong... 21:31:13 Me having done something wrong sounds more plausible :P 21:31:40 huangho [~vitor@201-40-179-251.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:33:26 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 21:37:23 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:37:46 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-011-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:20 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-210.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:24 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8142FC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40:24 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-40-179-251.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:40:41 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:48 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:28 gauge_ [~gauge@c-76-118-243-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:06 CrazyEddy [~intriguep@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:45:32 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-74-52.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:45:50 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-74-52.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 21:47:28 me got the same memory fault error 21:48:49 oh 21:48:59 terahertz failed, but xor is working now 21:49:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:29 somehow i failed to load gl and climacs, maybe that was my problem 21:50:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:17 hmmm, ok the *module-directory* thing fails, tho *procject-directory* works 21:53:28 terahertz fails again tho 21:53:31 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 21:53:49 no package defined error 21:53:55 it starts and i get a window 21:54:01 but no content 21:54:39 and .ioformsrc is not read it seems 21:55:17 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955B3F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:55 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:55 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:56:55 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:57:40 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:05 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:14 -!- kaelol [~b@c-99cfe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:58:15 homie: hum 21:58:22 well, and xor got only a very short intro, some balls or so drew over the win and that was it! 21:58:24 Im hopening an issue on github 21:58:39 homie: but no memory fault right? 21:58:42 Kenjin: i got xor working 21:58:54 Kenjin: the firtst time only, due to climacs 21:59:01 Kenjin: and it's gl 21:59:15 Kenjin: skipping that works 21:59:31 oh 21:59:34 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.162] has joined #lisp 21:59:39 I didn't try to skip 21:59:42 i mean it failed only the first time with the memory fault error due to climacs 21:59:49 yep 21:59:51 try it 22:00:01 3 or 5 or so from the options 22:00:07 also I coulnd't pinpoint the erro 22:00:10 in the debugger 22:00:11 *error 22:00:28 well, it's due to gl form climacs 22:00:43 (cl-opengl:gen-textures 1) 22:00:44 somehow overloading somethings with void funcs or so.... 22:00:46 around ehre? 22:00:49 *here 22:02:01 could you take a look at my debugger output? https://gist.github.com/15d34b815b76fe1083e8 thanks 22:02:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:02:16 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-32.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:02:30 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.134] has joined #lisp 22:03:56 i'm using SBCL 1.0.29 on OS X 10.5.8. I'm running Emacs 23.2 also tried running on the terminal 22:04:05 http://pastie.org/1958214 22:04:12 that's my output for xor 22:04:15 it's running 22:04:27 wait, i'm looking at your debug info 22:04:32 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:38 thanks 22:05:12 oh, i didn't use emacs for it, i only started sbcl from the konsole in kde 22:05:23 with linedit only enabled and some other packages 22:05:26 I also tried from the console 22:05:40 well, mine works now, at least xor works 22:05:56 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:59 only the balls go out of win scope and the the window is black left 22:06:15 well i think that's normal 22:06:33 hmm, but terahertz fails 22:06:48 let me paste the console debugger output 22:06:53 your error seems to be slime or so related 22:07:05 and don't load any other gl packages 22:07:21 only sdl 22:07:40 I'm betting so 22:07:42 https://gist.github.com/e959c4aeee5b77d47652 22:09:39 Kenjin: graphics and sound stuff doesn't like being run on anything but the main thread of OS X 22:10:27 -!- TrasTorno [~ircap@46.27.147.232] has quit [] 22:10:48 ah macos ? 22:11:34 If you work in *inferior-lisp*, that'll be the main thread for SBCL. 22:11:47 that, or you just got a null pointer in an alpha release. 22:11:57 looking at the backtrace might be enlightening. 22:12:23 i just checkoud out the xor and git pulled the ioforms folder for me, and the it worked 22:12:36 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 The last gist contains the debugger info from sbcl on the console 22:12:44 Also, 1.0.29 is almosy 2 years old; a more recent version might work better. 22:12:57 Kenjin: there's no backtrace. 22:13:17 (although, that might be useless on OS X given the vintage of your sbcl) 22:14:11 homie: there are dozens of difference in the environment that could gloss over some bug on your end but not Kenjin's. 22:16:04 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:16:52 How can I see the backtrace? 22:16:58 ok alsa pcm underruns occur sometimes 22:19:52 heh, i just renamed terahertz to thz and got it somehow to load, but it compiled gluon is not a package name 22:20:17 and i still get the no package defined or so error 22:21:33 mpereira_ [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has joined #lisp 22:23:00 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:23:05 -!- mpereira_ [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:06 http://pastie.org/1958284 22:24:27 I can get terahertz to run. I only get a black window though 22:24:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:11 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:26 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@ec2-50-16-8-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:42 mpereira [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has joined #lisp 22:28:50 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:31:55 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:38 http://pastie.org/1958284 i wanted to show 22:32:44 bleh, got disconnected .... 22:33:17 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:34:56 -!- cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:35:14 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:01 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 22:36:07 homie: I saw it 22:36:31 I don't have any issues with the package "GLUON" 22:36:32 ah ok 22:36:43 I can get terahertz to run. I only get a black window though 22:37:05 well, tho i did a git pull, it told me everything is uptodate, and it's already over 2 months since i last updated that thz thing... 22:37:26 maybe i just should clone it again 22:37:34 I did 22:37:42 mine is a fresh clone 22:37:43 -!- suncica2222 [dfgfdgdfgd@P1-123.internet.krstarica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:59 well then mine works too, cause i get the window too 22:38:05 it's just nothing in there 22:38:11 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-51-64-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:14 right 22:38:18 ah ok 22:38:54 oh 22:39:10 just got xor to run :) 22:39:26 well, what was the problem then ? 22:39:32 eheh 22:39:40 Some balls bouncing around, until they go off screen 22:39:45 yep 22:39:49 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-243-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:49 that's what i got too 22:39:54 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:00 Don't know what was the problem 22:40:09 what did you do ? 22:40:14 I ran thz before 22:40:22 I'll try to reproduce 22:40:28 ok 22:40:56 i had my thz in the ~/modules folder and i set the *modules-directory* to it 22:41:04 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 22:41:08 homie: I'm guessing the visual editor is not available yet 22:41:21 would like to play with that a bit 22:41:26 in my .ioformsrc but somehow ioforms is only lookin for a *projects-directory* or so 22:41:41 I have xor and thz at /projects 22:42:03 well, now i copied it over to projects too 22:42:10 and can erase modules folder i think 22:42:18 also, I don't have .ioformsrc. I just edited *projects-directory* on ioforms.ini as per the INSTALL file 22:42:43 hmmm, do you get thz or xor in fullscreen ? 22:42:52 none 22:43:20 well i set it up to use sound and keyboard layout qwertz and no fullscreen 22:43:23 in my ioformsrc 22:43:37 just as it was documented before 22:44:07 yeah, the install docs changed a bit. 22:44:09 and i think me getting alsa pcm underrrun errors sometimes is showing me that it is actually read...maybe i thought it is not 22:44:39 I can run Xor after running Thz. If I try to run Xor first I get the memeory fault 22:45:39 i can run both in any order 22:46:43 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:47:38 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:48:41 man, why did climacs not change it's gl ? 22:48:51 glx is causing somehow problems.... 22:49:00 homie: do you know how to run the editor, if possible at all? 22:49:13 (climacs:climacs) ? 22:49:27 or what editor do you speak of ? 22:49:40 I'm talking about the Ioforms visual editor 22:49:44 oh no 22:49:45 the block interface 22:49:55 did not take notice of it 22:49:57 oh ok 22:50:06 how is it named ? 22:50:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:29 I don't know. Trying to figure it out. 22:50:30 and does it have it's own modules or projects path ? 22:50:40 or does it come with ioforms itself ? 22:50:53 all good questions :) 22:51:20 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:52:04 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-51-64-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:52:20 Would love to try the editor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irf7AhjkNlo 22:52:46 blocks.lisp ? 22:52:50 is that what you mean ? 22:52:54 might be 22:53:17 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.164.224] has joined #lisp 22:54:17 yeah think that is it 22:54:56 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:44 I can't figure out if its runnable 23:00:23 (ioforms:play "example") does it too 23:00:28 Kenjin, dto, the author, is usually in #lispgames 23:00:37 Guthur: but not now :( 23:00:43 ah ok 23:00:51 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h139n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:00:55 -!- _6502_ [5e24fd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.253.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:01:30 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:41 homie: the memory fault you mean? 23:05:27 no i just meant the example project in ioforms folder, which comes with ioforms itself 23:05:30 homie: I also need to run terahertz first in order to get "example" to run. 23:05:38 heh 23:05:40 hehe 23:05:45 don't know what's wrong there really 23:05:46 cbp [~Cesar@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 23:05:52 what lisp do you use ? 23:05:58 and which version ? 23:06:55 ok i got to go now 23:07:40 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:02 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:05 sblc 1.0.29 23:08:10 *sbcl 23:08:20 steel bank lommon cisp 23:08:32 hehe 23:08:33 oh wow, and old one 23:08:37 eheh 23:08:46 maybe that's why ? 23:09:06 permaybehaps 23:09:45 ok, now really, i have to hurry, work tomorrow, bye all 23:09:48 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:10:14 -!- cbp [~Cesar@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:57 SBCL really doesn't like it when you close *STANDARD-OUTPUT* 23:13:09 and I'm annoyed that I had to figure it out twice 23:13:32 *workthrick* kicks self for having removed the seeming "pointless" (make-broadcast-stream *standard-output*) 23:13:35 anybody working on getting paste.lisp.org back up again? 23:14:02 jmbr [~jmbr@115.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 23:16:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-155.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:06 the cl.net people, I assume. 23:17:21 just wondering 23:17:26 it's been down all day 23:18:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:13 kruhft: right, I forgot to mention that there's also #lispweb which has far too little traffic. So if you want to spill your guts wrt lisp and web programming, feel free to throw it in there 23:22:19 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:22:41 sure, i'll try and remember that 23:22:53 i think i'm finally finished my #" read macro 23:23:08 got a few more features, one especially intersting i think 23:23:30 *madnificent* didn't really look at what you wanted in the reader macro 23:23:35 basically did everything that pascal said it should do 23:23:50 basically it it's a read macro to read an extended version of C strings 23:24:08 but it also does string interpolation like cl-interpol 23:24:16 allows you to do things like: 23:24:23 (defun x () "the value of x") 23:24:59 #"this is the value of (x)" (x) "hello\rworld\n"# type stuff 23:25:21 gives you back "this is the value of (x) the value of x hello 23:25:26 world 23:25:27 kruhft: in (defun x () "the value of x"), the string is not a docstring. 23:25:37 oops 23:25:45 mpereira [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has joined #lisp 23:25:46 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:52 forgot about that but it still does what i want 23:26:04 pjb: that's why it didn't make sense, I guess... 23:26:19 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@115.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:20 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:22 kruhft: so, will we be able to write inline-C-code? 23:26:22 mpereira [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has joined #lisp 23:26:22 -!- mpereira [~mpereira@201.82.244.199] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:26 pjb: i put in the reading of whitespace and comments 23:26:35 madnificent: no, just strings 23:26:43 or what's the real goal of the reader-macro? I mean, what do you want to use it for. 23:26:44 I require all languages supported in lisp 23:26:49 kruhft: Interpoling is not something C does, unless the token is a string (or expanded to a string from cpp). 23:27:01 pjb: and when i was doing that i found that adding interpolation was just a couple of lines 23:27:15 it's not really just c strings now...that's why i'm saying extended c strings 23:27:17 Phoodus: you require what? 23:27:18 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:19 kruhft: yes, but it let you write things that are not C strings. 23:27:39 well i added some more features :) 23:27:41 kruhft: If you go on you will get a cancer of programming language growing out of it! 23:28:00 pjb: cltl3? 23:28:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-193-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:14 luckily gigamonkey didn't see my comment :) 23:28:16 hello gigamonkey 23:28:22 pjb: i don't think so, just too something nice about another language and added it to lisp...that's a feature of lisp right :) 23:29:20 kruhft: the only valid reason to write a C string reader, is if you have a C source with a lot of strings with a lot of escapes, and that you want to load in a Lisp program. 23:29:25 i'm always at a loss for something to program when i'm not at work so this turned out to be a pretty good project (albiet my first lisp project) 23:29:43 kruhft: Otherwise, you can insert TABs and RETs in a lisp string with no need for anything more than the standard string lisp reader. 23:29:47 pjb: well i could think that i might want to use C like strings in my programs 23:29:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:29:56 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:58 kruhft: this wouldn't be a good idea. 23:30:23 pjb: but they just boil down to lisp strings in the end anyways 23:30:40 pjb: what's the point of a reader macro feature if you don't use it for doing interesting things? 23:30:44 Yes, this is not a big problem and indeed, you're free to do so. But it's not very useful. 23:31:09 And introducing a non-standard reader macro makes it harder to process your source file automatically (by editors and by other tools). 23:31:18 pjb: no, not a big problem, but something i found lacking in CL when I was trying to do something 23:31:33 kruhft: so the point of reader macros is mostly to implement syntaxes for _users_, not for programs. 23:31:38 all reader macros were non-standard at first 23:31:39 pjb: not having \n is fairly annoying 23:31:51 workthrick: you just type RET in the middle of a string! 23:31:57 but when i'm programming i'm a user 23:32:02 kruhft: yes. 23:32:26 pjb: yes, and it's terribly ugly and unreadable in many situations 23:32:55 In those situations, you're already using format anyways, so you can use ~% and ~newline already. 23:33:01 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.100.222.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:33:19 See 99bottles.lisp 23:33:27 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:33:37 http://pastebin.com/VSkNERSU 23:33:39 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.227.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:05 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:34:34 kruhft: do not apply format. Use ~? 23:34:35 pjb: i couldn't figure out how to get rid of the requirement of ending with "# when handling the case of arbitrary whitespace, and comments in the middle of a "" sequence. 23:34:53 pjb: what do you mean by that? 23:34:56 holymoo [~chatzilla@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:13 pjb: in fact I just did (format nil "~%") 2h or so ago, because "^J" was so unforgivingly ugly 23:35:42 kruhft: CLHS 22.3 23:35:54 ~? is recursive processing FORMAT directive 23:36:10 ok, format magic 23:36:24 very important magic! 23:36:37 so how would i rewrite: (apply #'format (append (list nil sb) (nreverse chars))) 23:36:45 kruhft: my country doesn't recognize public domain until 25 years after your death. So you retain the copyright, so I cannot copy it without your authorization. (Your public domain notice is no authorization, unless you've been dead for 25 years). Could you please formally give me (and my compatriotes) a license to copy your code? 23:37:13 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.217.66] has joined #lisp 23:37:17 should i repaste it with a different license? 23:37:19 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:27 hi, i was trying to get emacs+slime+quicklisp to work 23:37:31 after i fix the format issue 23:37:35 kruhft: annotate the paste with a new paste including the different license 23:37:37 insomniaSalt: how'd it go? 23:37:40 is quicklisp good enough to install hunchentoot+dependencies 23:37:44 kruhft: (apply 'format nil sb (nreverse chars)), or rewrite the format string to walk the list itself. 23:37:45 because i fail at it :( 23:37:49 kruhft: that way it's easier to find :) 23:37:54 kruhft: Personnaly, I have my own c string reader, so I don't really care, but if anybody else in my country, or similar countries wanted to use it, yes, you'd have to provide them with a license. 23:37:55 insomniaSalt: yes. what happened when you tried? 23:38:10 Try recompiling impl-clisp 23:38:14 also / sbcl 23:38:26 need to cook dinner, i'll fixup the license later 23:38:34 enjoy kruhft 23:38:59 kruhft: otherwise it's not bad. 23:39:17 insomniaSalt: hunchentoot does not work with clisp as far as i can tell. 23:39:26 insomniaSalt: works nicely with sbcl with threads. 23:39:56 Hunchentoot used to work with clisp, as long as you didn't try to run it in a separate thread. 23:40:11 insomniaSalt: but otherwise, it's simplier to run hunchentoot on sbcl or ccl. 23:40:13 Xach: okay i will make sure again, trying to isolate things before i come to irc, brb few minutes, restaring without emacs+slime just clean sbcl and quicklisp 23:41:21 Xach: is there a way to pass arbitrary SBCL options (--core in this case) to buildapp? 23:41:35 Xach: you have anything that translates SVG to vecto code? 23:42:02 pjb: what about "willingly gave up material/financial right to the work"? 23:42:05 I have a system that's terribly slow to build, and 80% of the slowness is loading CL-GTK2 again and again. Being able to have it load a core would be a huge help 23:42:41 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:42:42 workthrick: Are you using sbcl? 23:43:16 http://hpaste.org/46945/trying_sbclhunchentoot 23:43:25 I found that cl-gtk2 takes a ridiculous amount of time to load when i use SBCL 23:43:34 3 Clause BSD Licensed with format fixup: http://pastebin.com/EbSf0bGD 23:43:37 But it's much faster with clisp or ccl 23:43:41 back to dinner... 23:44:03 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:14 workthrick: no. 23:44:17 gigamonkey: no. 23:44:23 pjb: i don't really intend to run hunchentoot on clisp, last week I discovered tho' I had sbcl compiled without threads support but that should be fixed now 23:44:37 Xach: aww, that's a pity 23:44:59 insomniaSalt: debian garbage is interfering. 23:45:07 insomniaSalt: uninstall debian cl packages and try again. 23:45:21 Xach: okay will try 23:45:26 Xach: could I work around it by calling BUILDAPP:SOMETHING-OR-OTHER instead of invoking it from the commandline? 23:46:10 workthrick: I don't think so. You could work around it by replacing the default sbcl core. 23:46:36 insomniaSalt: Sorry, gentoo garbage. 23:46:47 insomniaSalt: Also, you have not loaded quicklisp in that paste. 23:47:05 insomniaSalt: try (load "quicklisp/setup.lisp") to load quicklisp. 23:47:29 yes, i just noticed that too 23:48:10 http://hpaste.org/46946/second_try 23:48:55 insomniaSalt: delete ~/.cache/common-lisp/ 23:48:58 i see 23:50:14 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:26 and i shall also remove gentoo's cl-asdf i suppose 23:54:39 oh dear, dependency hell 23:54:55 -!- CrazyEddy [~intriguep@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:07 foocraft_ [~ewanas@78.101.131.133] has joined #lisp 23:55:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-107.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:58:36 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.217.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]