00:00:10 comatose_kid [~comatose_@99-123-6-173.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:26 comatose1kid [~comatose_@99-123-6-173.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@99-123-6-173.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:05:40 -!- LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:05:46 It is in quicklisp. 00:05:49 The system is named "ucw". 00:08:55 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:09:53 -!- nixfreak [~nixfreak@mn-10k-dhcp1-3174.dsl.hickorytech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:10:28 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 00:10:43 nixfreak [~nixfreak@mn-10k-dhcp1-3174.dsl.hickorytech.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:37 -!- comatose1kid [~comatose_@99-123-6-173.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:16:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:40 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:21:34 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:37 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:29:29 gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:07 gz__ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:19 -!- izke [~Izke@33.Red-81-32-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:32:23 -!- gz__ [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 00:32:34 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:11 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 00:33:35 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:33:46 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:37:18 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.55.192] has joined #lisp 00:37:30 -!- gz__ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 00:37:40 what's a good IDE for mac? 00:38:16 I've heard good things about MCL and Lispworks but I don't have money to buy them. 00:38:18 -!- perseus [~perseus@ec2-50-16-101-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:56 ars-delirum: ccl comes with an IDE. 00:39:24 http://ccl.clozure.com 00:39:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:40:15 pnq [~nick@AC811CFD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:16 great, I think that was what I was looking for. thanks! 00:44:07 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:07 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:44:07 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:45:47 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:14 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:46:14 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:49:13 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:22 Guest62103 [~richard@218.64.200.233] has joined #lisp 00:50:24 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:01 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:53:38 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BCF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:59:03 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:00:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:01:52 Does MCL exist as a distinct product any more? 01:02:03 Or just as CCL? 01:02:13 -!- nixfreak1 [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:02:36 No idea. 01:02:55 My understanding was only CCL still exists. 01:02:58 Reading. 01:07:17 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:07:23 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:25 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.219.151] has joined #lisp 01:09:10 Blkt`` [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-39-183.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 01:10:56 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 01:12:33 -!- Blkt` [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-31-211.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping 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[~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 03:14:46 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 03:14:46 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 03:17:20 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:19 slash_ [~unknown@pD955B791.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:24 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:24:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:24:30 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:30:42 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:51 -!- kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 03:31:35 kruhft [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:50 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-85-81.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:34:46 -!- crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has left #lisp 03:34:56 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-246-9.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:36:49 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:37:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:37:32 kruhft pasted "#"-reader - read in C style strings using #"...#" read-macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122170 03:37:53 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 03:39:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:24 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 03:39:30 kruhft annotated #122170 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122170#1 03:39:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:10 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 03:41:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:59 symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:05 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 03:42:33 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 03:43:47 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:46:50 kruhft: That's some very strange programming in there. 03:47:29 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 03:49:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:20 you think? 03:53:29 Definitely. 03:53:35 explain 03:53:38 i am new to lisp 03:53:48 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.6] has left #lisp 03:53:55 technically it's my first real attempt at programming in it for about 15 years 03:54:09 kruhft: You seem to simulate OOP in make-string-buffer, but CL has a very good OOP system 03:54:43 kruhft: Looks like you learnd Scheme from SICP or something. 03:54:47 yes, i am using closures 03:54:50 *learned even. 03:54:53 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 03:54:54 pretty standard practice 03:55:01 kruhft: Not in CL it isn't. 03:55:11 well i just read Let over Lambda and it uses it extensively 03:55:20 Sorry to hear that. 03:55:30 Does it use Common Lisp? 03:55:32 well i thought it was an interesting way to do it 03:55:36 yes LOL does 03:55:42 -!- z777 [~user@183.62.131.179] has left #lisp 03:55:50 but he mentions that he doesn't like CLOS much 03:56:00 Furthermore, your make-string-buffer doesn't accept :append, but it is used. 03:56:25 kruhft: That is too bad, because CLOS is really good. 03:56:26 oops, i edited it quickly before i pasted it and cut some stuff out 03:56:36 crap, another mistake 03:56:43 wish i could edit the paste 03:56:59 i had a :split routine in there as well that i cut out 03:57:11 kruhft: Then, why do you generate a form (format nil ...) to execute at runtime rather than generating the string? 03:57:47 kruhft: Then, why use (setq c2 ..) rather than pushing the result directly. 03:57:47 probably a mistake...yes, a mistake 03:58:08 kruhft: You see what I mean now? A lot of strange programming in there. 03:58:19 oh wait, i use it so i can splice on the (nreverse char-list) 03:58:44 use apply. 03:58:46 i setq c2 because i push it later...push once i guess 03:59:05 (apply #'format nil sb-str (nreverse char-list) ? 03:59:14 something like that. 03:59:52 Furthermore, why use cond when you can use case? 04:00:02 i thought case was only for symbols 04:00:04 More: Why is there no default case for cond? 04:00:16 kruhft: You see what I mean now? A lot of strange programming in there. 04:00:17 so that any other quoted char is just output normally 04:00:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:19 Furthermore, when you really want a local variable to be the empty list initially, then say so explicitly (let ((...) (char-list nil)) ...) 04:01:38 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:44 didn't think that was required 04:01:44 Furthermore, we rarely use -list suffix. Just use the name in plural, such as chars. 04:01:57 kruhft: It is not required. It is just good practice. 04:02:24 kruhft: Programming is about distinguishing between grammatical phrases and idiomatic phrases. 04:03:03 i've been programming for almost 20 years 04:03:06 i'm just pretty new to lisp 04:05:24 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:54 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:04 kruhft: Then you should see that your OOP layer doesn't add any real abstraction to your program. Each operator is used only once. You might as well just put the code for the operator in place of a call to the closure. 04:06:46 i was just experimenting with a small program and the features of lisp that i don't have normally when i'm doing c++ and assembly 04:06:52 i find those features interesting 04:06:54 kruhft: Plus, since you use nonstandard OOP technique, you just confuse the reader. 04:07:03 seems pretty standard to me 04:07:09 they aren't supposed to be using it 04:07:12 It isn't. I just told you. 04:07:15 it's all enclosed in one file 04:07:22 i've read about it in a number of books 04:07:30 it may be academic but it's pretty standard 04:07:32 kruhft: About Common Lisp? How many? 04:07:48 at least 2. ANSI Common Lisp and Let Over Lambda 04:07:53 and of course in SICP 04:08:04 SICP is not about Common Lisp though. 04:08:07 yes, i know 04:08:28 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 04:08:38 Well, I thought you wanted comments on your code when you posted it, so I gave you some. Sorry if you don't like them. 04:08:52 no, it's interesting, and i appreciate it 04:09:05 it may not be totally idiomatic but it was just an experiment anyways 04:09:15 in your case, since you're not using any sort of inheritence or whatnot, it'd be faster and shorter to use separate defuns instead of dispatching on keywords 04:09:29 true 04:09:49 Phoodus: Or just put the code inline. It is not big and not hard to understand. 04:09:56 i was asking the other day about a way to embed newlines and tabs in CL strings and they said there wasn't a way to do it 04:10:07 so i thought writing a way to do it would be good practice 04:10:35 kruhft: (format nil "~%") has a newline in it. 04:11:00 well i wanted a bit of a nicer syntax that i was more used to 04:11:11 so i coded this up...let's you write c style strings 04:12:14 i'm interested in lisp because it's a programmable language 04:12:22 so i thought i would try programming it to give me something that i wanted 04:12:30 kruhft: The usual remedy for wanting more familiar syntax is to get used to a different one. 04:13:00 true, but there was no syntax for doing what i wanted to do 04:13:11 kruhft: (format nil "~%") 04:13:14 at least not as nice as what i just did 04:13:24 "hello\tworld\n" 04:13:29 cl-interpol probably does it better. 04:13:53 (format nil "hello~Cworld~C" #\Tab #\Newline) just doesn't roll off the keyboard as nicely 04:14:20 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:14:55 some would argue that \t doesn't roll off the keyboard as nicely as just hitting tab. 04:15:20 kruhft pasted "#'-reader -- FIXED for a bit of style and typos" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122171 04:15:49 i use tab for indenting and completion 04:16:10 crap, another typo... that should say #"-reader 04:16:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:17:05 pkhuong: the person that wrote cl-interpol has a bit more experience than i have 04:17:27 right. 04:17:39 and i'm sure cl-interpol is a bit more than half a file of code 04:17:56 er...half a page i mean 04:18:16 It's one line of quicklisp! 04:19:46 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:43:27 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:46:49 -!- Beetny 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[~milan@port-92-204-21-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:30:44 hi 07:31:43 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:46 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 07:34:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:42 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 07:36:37 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:41:30 -!- symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:27 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:43:43 -!- atomx` [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:18 hex [~gj@2001:cc0:2026:800:62eb:69ff:fe3a:306] has joined #lisp 07:44:41 -!- hex [~gj@2001:cc0:2026:800:62eb:69ff:fe3a:306] has left #lisp 07:45:22 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:50:17 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.137] has joined #lisp 07:54:01 kruhft: Have a look at his reader for C strings: http://paste.lisp.org/display/24879 07:54:26 kruhft: there's no need to implement a buffer, since CL already has adjustable arrays. 07:57:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:59:38 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-9-150.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:03 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:03:10 huh? 08:08:05 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:58 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:04 gko [~gko@42-72-171-246.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:09 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:00 add^_ [~add^_^@h153n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:23 -!- gko [~gko@42-72-171-246.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:19:23 gko [~gko@42-72-171-246.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:33 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 08:23:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:25:24 lisppaste is down: I get Proxy Error. 08:26:12 Could not connect to remote machine: Connection refused 08:27:37 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:25 can anyone summarize the changes in hunchentoot 1.1.1 vs bknr svn for me? 08:31:58 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:34:30 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 08:38:14 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:39:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:40:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:41:31 lisppaste: help 08:41:31 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 08:42:05 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-176-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:07 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:46:28 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:07 beach` [~user@116.118.6.177] has joined #lisp 08:51:33 -!- beach [~user@116.118.47.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:34 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-12-230.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:40 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 08:54:38 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-85-81.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:57:08 ch077179 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joined #lisp 09:17:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:20:46 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:58 HG` [~HG@p579F7209.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:29 a CLOS question, is it correct that a generic function with method combination type LIST will apply all applicable methods (in order of specificity) and return a list of all values? 09:32:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:57 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7209.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:34:29 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 09:34:37 with :most-specific-first option (the default), yes 09:36:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 09:38:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:39:42 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-24-8.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.94] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 09:44:41 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:46:10 I haven't ever used them myself, are method combinations actually useful on a routine basis? 09:46:32 (I mean the built-in ones except "standard") 09:49:42 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:53:48 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:49 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:54 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:47 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:15 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.231] has joined #lisp 10:00:18 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:33 stassats: Do you know of any document that details the generic function call sequence and hierarchy in the different CLOS protocols? I can't find anything like that in AMOP. 10:00:47 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:41 ecraven: it is there in AMOP, though I don't remember exactly where 10:03:33 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:55 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:35 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 10:05:00 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:05:01 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:05:02 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:05 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:05:34 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 10:06:53 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:55 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:07:43 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 10:08:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:03 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 10:09:26 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:57 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 10:14:43 -!- aoh_ is now known as aoh 10:15:16 -!- naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-211-91.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:16:05 atomx` [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 10:20:19 xian [xian@we-are-the-b.org] has joined #lisp 10:32:47 sacho [~sacho@87-126-42-180.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:33:29 carlocci [~nes@93.37.210.216] has joined #lisp 10:34:19 brodo [~brodo@p5B023B84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:02 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:30 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:36 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:00 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023B84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:49:43 -!- gko [~gko@42-72-171-246.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [] 10:57:55 -!- Guest5954 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:57:57 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 10:58:00 -!- xristos is now known as Guest6419 10:59:16 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 11:02:45 maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has joined #lisp 11:02:56 -!- maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has left #lisp 11:07:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08:12 ecraven: I have used different built-in method combinations in various projets. 11:08:37 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 11:09:26 ecraven: In particular, I have used APPEND and AND. 11:11:28 ecraven: also PROGN. 11:11:48 i've used + 11:12:07 nikodemus: Right, I have used + as well, in MIDI I think. 11:12:37 i've also used a custom on that adds a :wrapper, which happens before :around, and is like :around but runs from least specific to most specific 11:14:11 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ibxmbkoyxnvsotly] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:16:08 Scigraph (A CLIM application) uses PROGN, APPEND, OR. McCLIM uses APPEND, AND, OR, NCONC and a custom one. 11:17:05 -!- beach` is now known as beach 11:19:12 ecraven: It is one of those things where you don't need it very often, but when you do, you really do. 11:19:45 Thanks for all those answers! 11:31:07 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:33:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-194-195.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:37:39 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 11:39:05 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:40:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:57 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:42:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:43:32 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 11:43:55 cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:45:30 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-49-204.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:48:41 -!- kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-41-208.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:59 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 11:56:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:57:34 kai__ [~kai@e177089001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:57:37 -!- kai__ is now known as wetnosed 11:58:39 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:44 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@174.59.204.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:00 jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-88-229.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:04:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-194-195.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:09:17 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 12:11:25 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 12:12:59 lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:14:59 pnq [~nick@ACA23413.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:15 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:19:50 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 12:19:54 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.178.48] has joined #lisp 12:20:43 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 12:24:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:25:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:02 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 12:29:46 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:46 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:46 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:16 glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d219:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has joined #lisp 12:30:59 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:26 Hi, how do I remove the outermost parentheses of a list? 12:31:27 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.178.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:41 glidesurfer: there's no parentheses in lisp. 12:31:52 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:09 See http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6ec4dab4a8d57f6e 12:32:43 glidesurfer: (format t "~{~A~^, ~}.~%" list) may help. 12:33:46 leo2007 [~leo@th041104.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 12:33:55 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 makao007 [3d8ed192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 12:36:23 pjb: Is there no built-in function to do it? (it's a list of lists and thus I don't want a string to be returned... ) 12:40:42 I was thinking about a macro like this but it obviously doesn't work this way: http://pastebin.com/2XPFzQxz 12:41:57 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:26 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:32 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:47 lisppaste: help 12:43:47 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 12:43:50 ok. 12:43:57 then that's not an issue, obviously. 12:44:42 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:42 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:42 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:46 glidesurfer: THERE IS NO PARENTHESIS IN LISP!!!!! 12:45:08 pjb: come on, you know what I mean... 12:45:15 No. What do you want to do? 12:45:39 If you can explain what you want, you will probably be able to implement it. 12:45:43 hi 12:45:48 pjb: hi 12:46:09 But for this, you have the shed out false concepts, such as "removing outermost parentheses from a list". This is ridiculous. 12:46:10 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:18 Posterdati: hi! 12:46:53 I'm involved in pattern matching affair!! :( 12:47:03 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:11 Posterdati: good. Pattern matching is fun. 12:47:31 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 12:47:32 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:32 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:38 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:39 pjb: no! 12:49:17 glidesurfer pasted "the problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122177 12:49:35 pjb: could be better than a kick in the ass 12:50:03 <_3b> glidesurfer: did you want ,@ ? 12:50:11 _3b: thanks 12:50:11 glidesurfer: in quasiquote, you can use ,@ to splice the list. 12:50:12 <_3b> or CONS? 12:50:22 ,@ 12:50:23 lisppaste: help 12:50:24 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 12:50:26 ok. 12:50:53 pjb: in cons we thrust or trust? 12:50:57 *_3b* never would have guessed that from the original question... i thought that paste was supposed to be an attempt to do what was being asked 12:51:02 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:51:14 I did too. 12:51:40 I would have suggested something like revappend or nreconc... 12:51:44 lisppaste is now running on new cl-net. 12:51:49 Great! 12:52:04 I'm expecting some instability in the coming days. 12:52:16 it's even running on 1.0.48 (scbl)! 12:52:17 sbcl 12:52:45 I'll be stand-by, but you can alse report to admin at common-lisp.net 12:52:52 pjb, _3b: excuse me for being too vague 12:52:58 am0c [~am0c@183.96.90.183] has joined #lisp 12:53:14 glidesurfer: no need to excuse, it's a learning experience. You need to have clearer concepts. 12:54:18 glidesurfer annotated #122177 "final version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122177#1 12:54:48 pjb: is this the way someone could write a macro? I'm still new to CL... 12:55:11 glidesurfer: perhaps. What do you want to do? Why do you need a macro? 12:55:17 <_3b> well, it starts with defmacro, so it by definition is the way to write a macro :p 12:55:25 <_3b> seems like an odd one to write though 12:55:32 glidesurfer: as I said, I'd have proposed revappend: (setf dest (revappend rest dest)) ; no need for a macro. 12:55:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:56:30 minion: clhs revappend 12:56:30 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 12:56:36 specbot: clhs revappend 12:56:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_revapp.htm 12:56:38 duh 12:56:53 _3b: why do you think it's an odd one? 12:57:24 <_3b> just doesn't seem like something i'd want to do often 12:59:02 -!- ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:31 I was told that this is the feature people like so much about lisp... writing code that writes code 12:59:42 some kind of "meta" 12:59:46 <_3b> yeah, i like macros and metaprogramming 13:00:35 glidesurfer: But you would only use such features if they are needed. 13:00:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A7A63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:05 <_3b> is (my-push foo 1 2 3) supposed to leave foo starting with (1 2 3 ...) or (3 2 1 ...)? 13:01:23 ebzzry [~ebzzry@180.192.232.84] has joined #lisp 13:01:30 <_3b> (or is that unspecified and it should just contain all 3 in some order before existing elements of foo?) 13:01:52 _3b: the latter 13:02:15 <_3b> (3 2 1 ...) you mean? 13:02:33 *_3b* would probably find that macro confusing either way though 13:03:03 it doesn't matter 13:03:31 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:04:34 glidesurfer: In any case, it's often better to define or use a function to build a new data structure functionnaly than to define a macro. Then you can always use define-modify-macro to define an incf-like macro. 13:04:37 _3b: our brains seem to be different, that was the first thing that came into my mind ;-) 13:05:03 <_3b> glidesurfer: are you sure that is what would come into your mind from just the name, 6 months from now? 13:05:37 In this case, we want to do the same as revappend, but with the order of arguments reversed, so: (defun revappend* (a b) (revappend b a)) (define-modify-macro revappend*f (dest new-elements) revappend*) 13:05:53 so you can write: (revappendf (aref destinations i) (list 1 2 3)) 13:06:01 so you can write: (revappend*f (aref destinations i) (list 1 2 3)) 13:06:12 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:06:25 or you could s/revappend*f/revpush/ 13:06:25 gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 13:06:25 _3b: granted, the name is well thought out 13:07:14 glidesurfer: in any case, your macro is wrong: (my-push (aref dests (incf i)) (list 1 2 3 4 5 6)) 13:07:15 *isn't 13:07:24 glidesurfer: in any case, your macro is wrong: (my-push (aref dests (incf i)) 1 2 3 4 5 6) 13:07:33 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:07:45 (let ((dests (vector '() '() '())) (i 0)) (my-push (aref dests (incf i)) 1 2 3 4 5 6)) ; will break. 13:07:48 <_3b> yeah, places with side effects are harder to get right :) 13:07:59 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:06 ok 13:08:07 That's why you should use define-modify-macro: it gets it right. 13:08:25 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-14-206.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:08:30 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-14-206.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 13:09:11 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:11:00 hey guys is anyone familiar with using AllegroServe in Common Lisp? 13:15:23 mobydick: I don't think it's a very popular choice for CL web users. 13:17:13 mobydick: Was that your question? Or is the actual question something like "I'm trying to do xyz in aserve and it doesn't work, why?" 13:18:18 longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.217] has joined #lisp 13:20:30 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:21:02 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.137] has joined #lisp 13:21:18 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:51 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:16 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:24:02 longfin_ [~longfin@1.109.87.145] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.69.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:04 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:27:14 Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.71.119] has joined #lisp 13:27:16 im using the Lispbox package and having trouble setting up allegroserve 13:27:44 longfin [~longfin@175.216.175.103] has joined #lisp 13:28:16 mobydick: What's the trouble? 13:28:51 Well first off should I be using Allegroserve or PortableAllegroserve? 13:29:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:22 *_3b* would say 'hunchentoot' :p 13:29:36 <_3b> (unless you specifically need allegroserver for some reason) 13:29:38 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 13:29:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:14 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@1.109.87.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:14 <_3b> if you do want aserve and aren't running on allegro, you probably want the portable version though 13:30:37 longfin_ [~longfin@175.216.28.30] has joined #lisp 13:31:15 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:07 -!- longfin [~longfin@175.216.175.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33:20 -!- makao007 [3d8ed192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.142.209.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:33:23 Ok thanks. Im following a tutorial using AllegroServe so I want to use that for the moment 13:33:45 leyyer_su [~user@110.184.1.167] has joined #lisp 13:35:42 longfin [~longfin@1.98.176.102] has joined #lisp 13:35:53 When I try to run the "install.lisp" file I get the following error: "Lambda list of method # 13:35:53 is incompatible with that of the generic function CCL:ACCEPT-CONNECTION." 13:36:48 -!- Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.71.119] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:37:04 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@175.216.28.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:23 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.98.176.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:30 mobydick: sounds like that file is not compatible with your CCL 13:37:48 probably because portableaserve is pretty much unmaintained 13:38:40 i would recommend you pick another tutorial, or use allegro with that tutorial -- otherwise you're in a world of pain 13:38:48 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit:     ] 13:39:08 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:39:24 i don't think anyone but those on allegro haved used allegroserve for the past two years or so 13:39:31 -!- Calyce [~julie@132.72-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:39:59 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40:32 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:40 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:41:10 galiley [~user@212.21.153.186] has joined #lisp 13:41:20 ahh ok.. I managed to get it to run with allegro no worries, but i'm trying to learn using Lispbox and having no luck there so far 13:41:22 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:23 but thanks 13:42:20 Heh, I guessed when you wrote "no worries" that you are from down under. 13:42:34 mobydick: you can use the lispbox with hunchentoot. 13:42:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:47 mobydick: install quicklisp if not already done, and (ql:quickload :hunchentoot) 13:42:59 quicklisp is at http://www.quicklisp.org/ 13:43:15 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 13:43:19 haha yep 13:43:25 where are you guys from? 13:43:40 Right now, I come from the bathroom. 13:43:49 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:50 ok will do 13:44:19 beach is from sweden 13:44:24 mobydick: For many people here, that's a complicated question. I no longer know where I come from, and the answer depends on who is asking and where we are when the question is asked. 13:44:46 mobydick: When I was in Australia, I said I was from Auckland. 13:45:22 mobydick: Where I am now, I say that I am from France. 13:45:50 guess i mean where are you at the moment? 13:45:53 yea nice 13:46:02 mobydick: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. 13:46:11 If you want an example of an Hunchentoot web app: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=summary&p=public/game/mine 13:47:44 GETOUT [4572a1e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.114.161.232] has joined #lisp 13:47:46 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-agbrazovrjzyksnw] has joined #lisp 13:48:08 mobydick_ [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:48:29 Hello? 13:48:31 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:48:40 -!- mobydick_ [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:42 SingAlong [~akashmano@117.192.209.198] has joined #lisp 13:48:44 hi 13:48:51 hi all 13:49:03 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:49:05 If I mention Scheme, am I going to be ragekicked? 13:49:13 How about Clojure? 13:49:52 GETOUT: not necessarily. But your questions better be related with Common Lisp, or lisp in general. 13:50:14 Oh well, of course. 13:50:26 pjb: already got what you said about define-modify-macro but playing around with the macro a bit this should work know, I guess. 13:50:32 glidesurfer annotated #122177 "try again" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122177#2 13:50:40 DO people help with the other two dialects here? 13:51:13 glidesurfer: and we already mentioned ,@; why do you hide the macro? 13:51:28 GETOUT: probably not, since they have their own channels. 13:51:41 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-42-180.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:43 What are the other channels? 13:51:43 You would ask a question about MacLisp, or leLisp, you might get an answer here. 13:51:48 <_3b> glidesurfer: not really, did you try it? 13:51:48 #scheme and #clojure 13:51:49 ok another question - Is Lispbox a good free Common Lisp environment to use, or is there better ones around? 13:51:53 Lol ofcourse 13:51:56 Just had to ask 13:51:58 Thanks 13:52:13 mobydick: it's good, but it's not maintained. There are new versions of the CL implementations, of emacs and of slime. 13:52:21 _3b: just expanded the macro, no 13:52:34 mobydick: so nowadays, you would just get those, and install quicklisp and be done. 13:52:53 mobydick: pjb is exactly right 13:53:14 <_3b> glidesurfer: well, you need to read the expansion more closely then :) 13:53:15 ok sweet, any tips on where to get those from? 13:53:18 is it not good to install slime through quicklisp? 13:53:19 Its just that I do happen know Scheme pretty damn well. But I decided to try and learn Common Lisp and got the Successful Lisp book for that. So I'm here in case I have an questions because CL and Scheme have a few differences 13:53:32 More than a few. 13:53:35 Calyce [~julie@164.61-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:53:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 13:53:40 cafesofie: it is good 13:53:41 oh and whats the IRC command to direct your comment at someone? 13:53:45 minion: Please tell GETOUT about PCL. 13:53:47 GETOUT: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:53:59 Well aware of the book 13:54:01 mobydick: privately? in mine it's /msg mobydick Hello 13:54:08 Did not want to get it 13:54:25 You can get it for free from the web. 13:54:29 no i meant in this window 13:54:29 I am quite happy with Successful Lisp. And I know 13:54:34 I also have the pdf 13:54:57 mobydick: Some clients will use tab to auto-complete nicknames, but generally you just write the nickname followed by ": " 13:55:00 _3b: I'll do, thanks. 13:55:14 xach: ok thanks 13:55:35 Xach: did that work? 13:55:40 mobydick: sure did. 13:55:52 xach: thanks man 13:56:11 First question: when do you typically see yourself using structs? 13:56:21 GETOUT: Never. 13:56:28 I thought as much 13:56:30 When you have to use a product data type and you don't want to use CLOS. 13:56:55 GETOUT: i very occasionally use structs if i have profiled something i originally used a class for and it's critically slow. i don't actually remember the last time that happened. 13:57:19 Okay... I see. But why not just use CLOS? I mean, coming from Scheme, I'm pretty functional but OOP? Why the fuck not? And I understand 13:57:21 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:22 Okay 13:57:29 Thanks, Xach. I'll keep that in mind 13:57:40 GETOUT: there's no reason not to. 13:58:39 Exactly, pjb. That's what I'm thinking. I'll try to keep my programs as functional as possible but I'm not gonna just overdose on immutable state. I am well aware that CL is the worst of the three lisps for that kind of thinking. 13:59:10 GETOUT: you can write functional methods. 13:59:36 I know. That's obvious. 13:59:51 But I also know CL is very multi-paradigm 14:01:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:01:44 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:01:52 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 14:02:02 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb219-74-171-2.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:02:30 i use structs regularly for efficiency reasons 14:02:59 That's the answer I've been getting so far. 14:03:01 quite likely more often than i really need to, though 14:03:13 So structs are often times fast than objects/classes? 14:03:26 -!- gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:48 structure slot access (esp. in sbcl) is blazingly fast, and the compiler can reason better about structure slot types 14:04:07 clos slot accesses aren't slow as such ... just not as fast 14:04:23 I understand. So pretty much structs are the poor man's CLOS 14:04:23 gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 14:04:24 structures can also be stack allocated in sbcl, unlike clos objects 14:04:32 Ah 14:04:42 but redefinitions are a pain with structures -- and a breeze with clos 14:05:07 Mhm. 14:05:09 so as long as your code is evolving, unless you _really_ need the things structs are good for, CLOS is better 14:05:32 Okay 14:05:46 -!- am0c [~am0c@183.96.90.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:27 GETOUT: google for raylisp if you want to see the kind of code that could not work with CLOS objects and be nearly as efficient 14:06:54 ...and you'll notice that it also uses a lot of CLOS objects -- structs only for the things where it matters, like rays 14:06:59 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 14:07:19 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:26 GETOUT: However, defstruct is often easier to use than defclass (which has more options). So the right thing to do, is to define your own defentity or whatever macro, that will generate either a defclass or a defstruct on option. So you can easily (but still needing a "reload") switch from one to the other, and still have the same functional abstraction. 14:08:00 Mhm. 14:08:05 Okay 14:08:08 I get that 14:08:33 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 14:08:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 14:08:33 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:08:45 Are any of you actually against Scheme? I mean, what do you think of it? 14:08:53 There's also one thing defstruct can do that obviously defclass cannot: you can make your "structure" a list or a vector. 14:08:56 _3b: doesn't look like an error to me: http://paste.lisp.org/+2M9V 14:09:06 GETOUT: scheme is impractical. 14:09:11 Or Racket, Scheme's child who escaped the horrible impending doom that is the R7RS standard 14:09:36 slash_ [~unknown@pD955B791.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:49 What do you think of Racket, then? 14:11:12 scheme is lovely 14:11:17 racket is great 14:11:23 glidesurfer: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122179 14:11:25 i prefer sbcl :) 14:11:42 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.25.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:44 I prefer ccl. 14:12:00 But foremost, I prefer being able to use several different implementations. 14:12:05 Heh. I could tell. And you actually mean that? I've never actually talked to a CL'er about Scheme before. I expected raging hatred 14:12:49 there is a crapload of misunderstandings on both sides 14:13:19 r7rs may change things, but I think I'll still prefer CL. 14:13:20 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-88-229.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:13:30 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:41 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:09 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 14:14:24 True true and I dunno. I don't like R7RS. Splitting into two languages. Seems like a REALLY bad idea. Which is why I'm moving to the lisp with the singular unambiguous standard which isn't on the JVM 14:15:02 In CL, there are also additionnal de-facto standard libraries. 14:15:46 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has joined #lisp 14:15:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has quit [Changing host] 14:15:46 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:16:06 Exactly. I mean, I think Clojure is a great language but something about the JVM just bothers the living crap out of me. 14:16:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:16:53 I'm quite new to lisp. And I'm not clear on the major strong points between the different implementations. 14:17:01 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 14:17:10 Fah: then never mind ;-) 14:17:19 I started with clisp and moved to sbcl since it was easier to get quicklisp and start toying with hunchentoot. 14:17:19 Just don't use GCL. 14:17:21 francogrex [~user@109.130.204.101] has joined #lisp 14:17:34 I just started reading about allegrocl. 14:17:41 clisp and sbcl should be about the same as far as getting quicklisp is concerned, but yes, fewer libraries work on clisp than on sbcl. 14:17:46 I'm happy to hear thoughts on the subject :) 14:17:51 All commercial CL implementations are good 14:18:16 Fah: if you buy allegro cl, someone will help you even if you don't ask nicely. 14:18:21 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:25 the same can't be said for sbcl, usually. 14:18:27 I've been writing software for a while, but I'm only now getting my brain wrapped around lisp 14:19:02 Something clicked recently and I'm starting to really enjoy lisp. 14:19:12 I DL'ed Allegro Lisp to practice. And I mean, it has a pretty nice IDE attached to the implement 14:19:17 I have quite a bit of learning to do 14:20:04 glidesurfer: if you want to do your thing with a macro, you will need to learn about get-setf-expansion. 14:20:29 CL is the biggest of the three dialects so if you intend to use it, you need to read and learn ALOT 14:20:37 If you wanna be a "guru", so to speak 14:21:11 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:21 understood, i'm still striving for 'mostly lucid' at this point 14:21:36 Heh 14:21:49 Yeah, I just started and while I got through most of the basics pretty quickly 14:22:01 Unhygienic macros took a tad bit to get used to 14:22:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:32 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 14:23:33 oh, i'm still reading up on CLOS and i'll be honest. Macros still have not yet fully clicked to where they come naturally to how I write stuff 14:23:38 but that will come in time 14:23:43 with practice 14:23:43 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 14:23:51 GETOUT: hygienic macros take more time to get used to. I still can't do them. 14:24:10 Heh. Then I see we have different problems 14:24:16 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:30 Because for me, I end up having unintentional captures all the time 14:24:44 Used to being able to rather carelessly write macros without too much worry 14:24:54 Yes, you have to be conscious of them to avoid them. Use alexandria:once-only. 14:24:56 Xach: is gcl a bas product? 14:25:00 Xach: is gcl a bad product? 14:25:37 Posterdati: not exactly bad, but it lags behind, not maintained enough, not fully conforming. 14:26:04 Posterdati: if you need an implementation generating C code, ecl is a good choice. 14:26:24 pjb: and what about sbcl? 14:26:32 It generates native code. 14:26:51 Fah: Let me point you to two books. (when you feel ready for macros) 14:26:51 Different namespaces for functions and values still irks me 14:26:53 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:26:55 http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html 14:27:01 http://letoverlambda.com/textmode.cl 14:27:07 I feel like I'm farther away from the functional paradigm 14:27:09 pjb: yes, but from a standard point of view? is sbcl fully adherent to ANSI? 14:27:31 Well, it's technically not a diferrent namespace, since the name is the same for both. 14:27:33 I don't know of any flagrant unconformity. 14:27:51 (Which is why you can't separately export functions and variables, for example) 14:27:51 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:11 Hmmm 14:28:22 naryl: thanks. I have onlisp and I am making slow progress with it 14:28:22 But I mean, in function definition 14:28:27 I'll check out the other 14:28:29 Multiple value space, maybe. 14:28:43 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 Yeah. But I'm starting to get used to it 14:28:51 Or contextual interpretation of names. 14:29:01 pjb: sbcl has got a nice emacs interface 14:29:12 I find that it helps in avoiding stupid naming practices. 14:29:23 Posterdati: all CL implementations have it. 14:29:37 In python, for example, it's often hard to pick a sensible name since you have to compete with modules, classes, functions, etc. 14:29:41 pjb: even clisp? 14:29:48 Posterdati: but sbcl doesn't have readline embeded, you need to think to use rlwrap. clisp has readline. 14:30:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:30:13 So you end up with stuff like l = [1, 2] because all useful variations on list are already taken. 14:30:57 heh 14:31:28 Oh neat,I didn't know about rlwrap 14:31:38 I've been running sbcl in emacs/slime 14:31:57 Yes, of course when you run your inferior-lisp in emacs, you don't need readline. 14:32:17 rlwrap, or linedit 14:32:26 oh yea, I was saying neat because I have some friends who don't use emacs and would like rlwrap 14:32:27 both work fine for command-line 14:32:28 for other stuff 14:32:33 nice utility to know about 14:32:39 Is scineer lisp any good? 14:33:05 pjb: could a program developed with sbcl work on clisp? 14:33:07 GETOUT: Seems likely. 14:33:15 GETOUT: it's pretty expensive and i don't think anyone here uses it. 14:33:19 Posterdati: most likely. 14:33:36 Posterdati: as long as you write a conforming program, it should run the same on all conforming implementation. 14:33:44 Right. I just wanted to ask because its multiprocessing seems sexy 14:33:48 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-173-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:56 isn't SCL back to reasonable prices? 14:34:01 Fah: see also http://xach.com/lisp/linedit-screencast.gif 14:34:07 pjb: that's the point! :) 14:34:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:12 USD 299 plus tax for a threading-enabled Solaris/sparc Lisp. That's dirt cheap. 14:35:33 nice 14:35:39 Last time I watched, it was more like $4999 minimum. 14:36:37 Does CL handle concurrent programming well or is it kinda eh in alot/some places? 14:37:02 getout: Much as with C -- it isn't part of the language. 14:37:13 Personally, I suggest avoiding threads -- they don't scale. 14:37:16 GETOUT: most implementations support threads. 14:37:39 GETOUT: clisp is the latecomer, but it has threads as a beta features. The others are good enough. 14:37:42 and there are projects like cl-stm and zeromq 14:37:43 Hm. Unfortunate. Thank you. But I might be able to figure something out. Thanks anyway 14:37:58 -!- gaidal__ [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.204.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:37 *Xach* found a new cl quiz question 14:43:04 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-51-70-89.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:21 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:46 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.83] has joined #lisp 14:43:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.83] has quit [Changing host] 14:43:46 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:44:21 What does #6(1 2 3) evaluate to? a. Nothing, it's an error b. #(1 2 3 0 0 0) c. #(1 2 3 nil nil nil) d. #(1 2 3 3 3 3) 14:44:55 (no credit if you have to look it up, or if you use the repl) 14:45:02 ecl has some seemingly random problems. I wouldn't expect a non-trivial conforming program running on clisp and sbcl to run on ecl without modifications. 14:45:06 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:45:10 c? 14:45:35 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-70-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:45:35 I like your confidence! 14:45:37 d 14:45:39 :( 14:45:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:21 Xach: does it return the same on all conforming implementations? 14:46:27 Having implemented a reader helps... 14:46:33 Fade: yes. 14:46:34 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-70-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 14:46:53 *Fade* had to look it up 14:47:57 *Xach* has used CL nearly 10 years, would not have known the answer 14:48:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:48:11 Xach: that's why at one point you want to implement your own CL. 14:48:11 14:48:22 pjb: I bet. Now that I know it, I don't think I'll forget. 14:49:10 That's an interesting default behaviour. 14:49:33 It's a reasonably choice, though. 14:49:40 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:58 So all items will have the same type? 14:50:45 Not necessarily. 14:51:03 #6(a "Hello" 3) --> #(A "Hello" 3 3 3 3) 14:51:29 It's still a (vector t 6) 14:52:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:34 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:54:33 hmm. lisppaste seems rather stable now. 14:54:42 I expected more issues. 14:54:58 I don't know. The last paste I made wasn't communicated automatically to #lisp. 14:55:15 oh. ok. 14:55:24 lisppaste: help 14:55:24 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 14:55:44 pjb: the web engine and the irc bot are both running. 14:55:55 Good. 14:56:26 and while they were throwing errors this morning, I haven't seen any the last 3 hours. 14:56:46 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 14:57:00 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:22 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:03 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 14:58:04 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:00:09 hmm. seems franz is the owner of the lisp.org dns servers. 15:01:38 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.138.48] has joined #lisp 15:02:23 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 15:02:24 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:02:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:09 hope they can switch paste.*'s dns record soon. 15:04:22 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:07:25 pjb: I'm trying to use mcclim :) do you suggest a better Lisp GUI toolkit? 15:07:58 commonqt looks interesting. 15:08:12 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:08:16 poster: I suggest html. 15:08:46 Zhivago: So every user will see your UI differently? 15:09:17 Posterdati: I suggest ncurses. ;) 15:09:39 naryl: Ah. You're one of those people that doesn't believe in resizable or movable windows. 15:09:55 naryl: CSS can do that if you're sufficiently deranged. 15:10:06 No, I believe in them. There are a few on my desktop right now. 15:10:18 So every user will see your UI differently? 15:10:29 Not THAT differently. 15:10:48 Well, how differently is an issue? 15:10:52 -!- GETOUT [4572a1e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.114.161.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:10 With one block of text above the other is an issue. 15:11:17 *on top 15:11:35 I think you must have been living in a cave or something. 15:11:47 It doesn't appear to be a problem in reality. 15:12:12 I don't live in a cave, I write html. It is a problem. 15:12:20 One of many. 15:12:21 Posterdati: have a look at garnet. It's interesting. 15:12:31 pjb: qt based? 15:12:37 Lisp based. 15:12:42 kt based. 15:12:44 naryl: Well, get one of the competent people to write it for you. 15:12:46 kr I mean. 15:13:44 pjb: thanks 15:17:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:29 Zhivago: :P 15:17:54 Posterdati: So don't listen to Zhivago if you don't want to waste money on competent people to write an HTML UI. 15:18:09 Well, it's not like people don't manage to do it a lot. 15:18:18 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 15:18:43 naryl: I don't need an HTML gui 15:18:54 -!- leyyer_su [~user@110.184.1.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:09 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CC1AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:20 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:41 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-53-115.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:27:48 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 15:28:07 cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.89.192] has joined #lisp 15:32:29 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 15:36:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23413.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:19 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 15:36:25 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:36:52 y [~user@175.124.94.167] has joined #lisp 15:37:07 -!- y is now known as Guest95583 15:37:49 -!- SingAlong [~akashmano@117.192.209.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:38:40 antifuchs: herep 15:39:57 Landr [~user@78-22-145-12.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:43:22 MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.65.192] has joined #lisp 15:45:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:24 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 15:46:44 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.156.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:48:01 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:53 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-9-150.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:49:45 oudeis [~oudeis@77.125.99.106] has joined #lisp 15:50:38 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:51:11 -!- Guest95583 [~user@175.124.94.167] has left #lisp 15:51:19 SingAlong [~akashmano@117.192.209.198] has joined #lisp 15:51:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:52:29 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:26 agumonkey [agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:00 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 15:57:44 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.106.222] has joined #lisp 15:58:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:05 -!- cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:45 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:07:14 ehu: derp! 16:08:15 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:09 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:10:10 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:24 Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.86.94] has joined #lisp 16:14:11 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:09 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:44 antifuchs: paste.lisp.org's DNS is managed by Franz. Can you make it a CNAME to paste.common-lisp.net? 16:17:51 qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-255-143-248.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:58 antifuchs: because we want to move it to another machine. 16:18:09 and might again in the future. 16:18:13 (not even distant) 16:19:03 I can't, personally, but sa can, I think 16:19:13 that is, the sysadmin team (: 16:19:28 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.86.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19:51 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.137] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:32 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:22:03 Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.86.94] has joined #lisp 16:22:17 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.106.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:02 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:32 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:36 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:06 antifuchs: that'd be great! 16:31:57 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@222.253.86.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:12 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@77.125.99.106] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:33:49 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:33 HG` [~HG@p579F7209.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:28 LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has joined #lisp 16:43:45 Hey guys 16:44:45 I am experiencing some serious lag here, so if I don't answer promptly, I am sorry 16:44:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:58 Is there any way to browse through the old Lisp usenet messages? 16:46:12 I know Google has a pretty huge archive, but how complete is it? 16:46:16 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CC1AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:46:21 LakatosI: pretty complete. it goes back to the early 80s 16:46:30 -!- SingAlong [~akashmano@117.192.209.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:36 LakatosI: it includes the entirety of comp.lang.lisp and the predecessor net.lang.lisp 16:47:07 There are omissions where authors explicitly requested no archiving. 16:47:16 And how up-to-date is it? 16:47:26 Do lispers still use usenet? 16:47:42 LakatosI: Some do. I do. 16:47:53 Can these new messages be found in Google groups? 16:48:12 Also, this might be off-topic, but how do I connect to Usenet? 16:48:22 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-118.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 I never really understood how it works :P 16:48:53 LakatosI: the google groups interface displays all new messages promptly. i use news.individual.net for usenet. you can also use eternal-september.org and others. 16:49:13 oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has joined #lisp 16:49:31 it's a global unmoderated forum so you have to get what value you can on your own. 16:50:37 LakatosI: i find it pretty important to use a usenet client that can filter things automatically for me. 16:50:43 I use GNUS for emacs. 16:51:12 I see 16:51:47 i've had good luck with eternal-september 16:51:48 But if google groups already displays new messages promptly, why pay 10 euros for usenet access? 16:52:14 LakatosI: spam filtering, choice of clients 16:52:25 Does google groups offer nntp access? 16:52:28 LakatosI: 10 euros per year is a pretty modest cost that i think is worthwhile. 16:52:32 ecraven: no. 16:52:46 Oh 16:52:53 LakatosI: Some people prefer *not* to use web-interfaces for everything ;) 16:53:03 I take it eternal-september is free? 16:53:13 as somebody who used to be a news administrator, I'm here to tell you that if you can get read/post to a good news server, it's worth 10 euros per year. 16:53:29 If you have access to a university, many of them have free nntp servers for staff and students 16:53:34 news is a ridiculous headache to manage. 16:54:26 Fade: I shed a little tear when all the little ISPs stopped providing NNTP, either by outsourcing it or by going out of business... 16:55:00 the associated costs in hardware aren't too bad now, but a full feed is a serious torrential flow of data. 16:55:37 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:49 just about all the tricky performance sysadminish stuff I learned as a sysadmin was learned trying to keep a news spool alive on the worst hardware imaginable. 16:56:35 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 16:56:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041104.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:57:03 i've actually been looking for somebody to peer with a news server at our machine room, but all my contacts have been promoted to non technical management at this point. 16:57:34 -!- LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-79.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:58:19 anyhow, i've been using eternal-september, and as I'm mostly a news voyeur, it works out well. 17:02:55 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:06:35 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:07:41 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.88] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 pnq [~nick@ACA20136.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:49 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955E014.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:03 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:12:09 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:15 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@pD955E014.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:12:20 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955B791.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:21 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:15:04 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 17:24:52 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7209.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:28 chubba [~dmitry@e182003202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:37 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0073.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:39 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 17:33:47 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:37:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:37:10 -!- chubba [~dmitry@e182003202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:36 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0073.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7A63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:15 urandom__ [~user@p548A7A63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:34 leo2007 [~leo@th041104.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 17:46:16 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:08 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:27 mobydick [~textual@124-171-177-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 17:49:40 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:06 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 17:51:34 chubba [~dmitry@unaffiliated/chubba] has joined #lisp 17:52:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:23 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 17:56:10 -!- chubba [~dmitry@unaffiliated/chubba] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:57:53 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.30.175] has joined #lisp 17:58:45 weirdo_ [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:47 oh hi 17:58:50 i have a problem 17:59:05 cells-gtk on windows requires 64-bit gtk libraries 17:59:11 but these aren't readily available 17:59:22 what do i do, short of building them all myself? 17:59:42 that is, requires them with CCL which doesn't run a 32-bit version on 64-bit windows 18:00:22 oh wait, actually i found it 18:00:24 nvm 18:01:02 back to lisping, i guess. small companies don't care about programming languages used, which is great 18:02:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-21.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:02:58 -!- weirdo_ is now known as weirdo 18:04:01 doesn't 32bit ccl from svn run on 64bit windows? I haven't tried, but my impression from previous dicussion was that the svn version uses TlsAlloc to fix that problem. 18:04:07 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:35 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:54 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 18:05:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.123.105] has joined #lisp 18:05:15 lichtblau: last release already supports running 32bit on 64bit 18:05:46 so you don't need quirky dual-mode installs anymore 18:07:25 anyone using 5am for testing? 18:07:30 i'm thinking about checking it out 18:09:31 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-152-233-195.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:37 p_l|backup: that's good news for weirdo then! 18:10:20 I don't use CCL much, so I was going be the release notes, which say the opposite. 18:11:12 hmm, not 1.6? 18:11:17 because i'm running 1.6 18:11:20 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:11:38 oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has joined #lisp 18:12:43 chubba [~dmitry@unaffiliated/chubba] has joined #lisp 18:12:53 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:13 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 18:13:52 p_l|backup, care to direct me to the latest install? 18:14:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:15:16 weirdo: hmm.. it appears I'm incorrect. Mayb I mixed up stuff from SVN 18:15:26 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:16:51 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:18:02 oh, so i'll use svn 18:19:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:20:36 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-79.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:20:48 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:48 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:53 -!- chubba [~dmitry@unaffiliated/chubba] has left #lisp 18:24:00 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 18:25:40 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 18:27:28 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:28:03 topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has joined #lisp 18:28:42 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:55 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:33 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:04 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:32:38 stupid CCL svn version crashes when compiling gtk-ffi 18:33:53 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:27 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:36:48 anyone can reproduce it? it's ccl svn running on top of w7 64 18:37:06 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:07 ql:quickload "cells-gtk" puts it into the low-level debugger 18:38:25 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:24 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:44:56 is sbcl-win32 still badly broken? 18:45:01 i'd rather not use clisp, which sucks 18:47:12 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:42 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 18:48:19 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.138.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:34 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0121.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:41 sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:51 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@99.137.135.246] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 weirdo, I use SBCL on win32 18:49:13 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:15 there is even an experimental version with threads 18:49:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:40 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 18:53:17 well, i require production releases 18:54:35 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:55:11 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 18:55:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99.137.135.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:56:43 jesusito [~user@224.pool85-49-231.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:01:12 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.105.188] has joined #lisp 19:03:41 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.65.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:04:31 oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has joined #lisp 19:04:41 MoALTz [~no@92.18.83.227] has joined #lisp 19:08:26 weirdo: then why are you using CCL svn version instead of the stable release version? 19:09:05 Phoodus: you can get the stable release version from svn. 19:09:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:42 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 19:09:53 well, if "ccl svn" means latest trunk, vs "ccl 1.6"' 19:09:55 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10:09 Phoodus, i'm not. the damn thing's badly broken 19:10:14 ah 19:10:28 i'm *trying* to build libgtkglext for win64. eww 19:10:31 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 19:10:34 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7CF96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:26 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7D35E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:18 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-79.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041104.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:23:15 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:19 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:24:04 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:24:10 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:23 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:24:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:25:25 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:29 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:26:29 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 19:32:18 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-158-113.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:46 -!- jesusito [~user@224.pool85-49-231.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 19:34:53 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-12-230.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:38 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:55 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:36:51 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-85-136.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:26 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-158-113.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:19 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f726876.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:04 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.93.61] has joined #lisp 19:41:59 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:20 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:27 chubba [~dmitry@e177104079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:10 -!- chubba [~dmitry@e177104079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 19:48:16 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:43 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 19:49:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 19:49:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:50:48 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:04:14 -!- mkfort [foobar@68-189-171-116.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:43 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:07:42 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:48 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:08:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20136.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:43 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-012-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:38 georgek [~user@184-77-70-234.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:52 I'm reading some code that seems call eql with one argument, in (defmethod telnet-process-command (stream (command (eql +IAC+))) command), but I thought it required two? 20:22:25 it doesn't call eql 20:22:34 clhs defmethod 20:22:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm 20:23:01 clhs 7.6.2 20:23:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fb.htm 20:24:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-209-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:08 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 20:26:08 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0121.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:29 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:41 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 20:29:56 I understand now, thanks stassats 20:30:46 -!- qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-255-143-248.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:26 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-166-48.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:32 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-166-48.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:46 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:54 hi 20:35:02 any doctor who fan here? 20:35:33 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-173-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:35:40 -!- y3llow_ is now known as y3llow 20:35:42 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 20:35:47 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-173-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:36:04 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:39:24 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 20:44:42 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:07 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:58 -!- glidesurfer [~glidesurf@2002:4fcd:d219:0:230:5ff:fe37:7a8d] has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:48:33 weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:56 i'm having problems with cells-gtk and swank. running it in swank thread causes a hang without even C-c C-c bringing up sldb 20:49:25 running it without swank works just fine 20:49:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:19 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 20:52:36 perhaps it doesn't like to be run not in the main thread 20:55:08 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:59:05 Another MOP question. Apart from reflective facilities, is there anything non-Lisp that supports an intercessory meta-object protocol? 21:00:21 ecraven: yes. Have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/articles/life-saver.html 21:00:57 ecraven: qt has MOC 21:01:33 can mcclim run in a non-main thread? 21:01:39 i'm desperate for some GUI action 21:01:49 yes, it can 21:02:08 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 21:02:33 http://www.informatimago.com/articles/\ 21:02:38 sorry 21:02:45 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 21:02:49 but i wouldn't advise you to try mcclim, seeing that you jump from toolkit to toolkit so easily 21:03:10 i used Windows Forms before 21:03:28 except that writing c# code is pain in the butt and changing requirements make me have to rewrite 3/4 of it 21:03:58 weirdo: why don't you use cl-cairo2 and then blog extensively about your experiences so I can learn from you (: 21:04:40 s/cl-cairo2/commonqt/ 21:05:05 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.30.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:33 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18e4e057.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:00 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.190] has joined #lisp 21:07:23 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 21:07:43 i find that jumping from one library to an alternative when encountering some problems is counter-productive 21:08:27 because they all have problems, and soon you'll run out of things to jump to. so, pick one you like and stick with it, and report bugs or fix them yourself 21:08:38 cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 21:09:09 and you won't be the only one who benefits from this 21:10:58 symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:51 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18e4e057.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:48 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18e4e057.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:28 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:17:56 humm. since it apparently only affects Windows, i can develop on linux and deploy normally, since i don't need to deploy with swank 21:18:01 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:02 -!- topeak [~topeak@180.77.211.95] has left #lisp 21:22:14 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-22-33.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18e4e057.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:17 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:44 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-85-136.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:54 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h153n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:29:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7559be.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:20 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.89.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:25 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:46 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-181.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:35:34 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@79.115.164.65] has joined #lisp 21:43:07 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [] 21:44:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:45:11 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:34 ecraven: COS could be probably extended to have proper MOP, though it still has the need for pre-processor 21:50:14 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:01 someone probably wrote something for haskell too 21:58:43 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 22:00:05 Good morning everyone! 22:00:26 beach: 'morning 22:01:05 *p_l|backup* wishes he could do his tests in CL, would be much easier 22:01:25 (VC wants a measure of our coding skills) 22:02:47 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:08 in newton meters or in kilometers per hour? 22:03:54 stassats: in percentage of tests our solutions to test problems pass, as well, as whatever we wrote before 22:04:23 -!- Landr [~user@78-22-145-12.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:04:37 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:05:18 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.105.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:33 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-51-70-89.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:08:07 (my co-founder had 249/300, I hope to hit closer to 300) 22:08:10 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:09:39 p_l|backup: What kind of problems? 22:10:32 drdo: som algorithmical stuff, but some of them had traps for people who train for algo contests 22:10:47 from the milleneum prize, i reckon 22:11:08 (2 out of 3 tests were solved through clever use of hashtables) 22:12:11 *stassats* fears that he uses his hashtables uncleverly 22:12:25 *drdo* doesn't like hashtables 22:12:58 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:30 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:44 drdo: rename them smooth tables. 22:14:22 drdo: they provided us with amortized O(1) performance instead of O(n log n) I'd expect from certain people (for second test, at least) 22:15:04 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:18:02 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:54 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 22:19:29 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-22-33.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:19:55 pnq [~nick@AC819BD5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:01 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-65-45.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:12 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:13 Landr [~user@dD5770CBB.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:21:01 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:21:06 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 22:21:50 got LoL and AMOP from amazon today. best Saturday ever. 22:22:09 er, books 22:23:37 derekv: Congratulations! 22:23:42 p_l|backup: I think a surprising number of GCed language implementations have trouble with actually O(1) hash table. 22:23:46 So in compiling cl-vectors from quicklisp with sbcl 1.0.47, one of my systems is complaining about bad unicode characters (in the name of the author in comments). 22:24:07 wgl: encoding issues, perhaps. 22:24:17 pkhuong: the tests had timeouts adjusted for GC times, apparently 22:24:39 pkhuong: Right, but shouldn't sbcl handle that? 22:24:54 wgl: it uses the encoding you specify. 22:25:01 wgl: No system can guess what encoding your file is. 22:25:05 p_l|backup: old haskell and its very coarse granularity write barriers, for instance. 22:25:34 beach: Well, not my file strictly speaking. Was a surprise because it is cl-vectors after all, and distrubted with quicklisp. 22:25:48 pkhuong: well, I seriously doubt old haskell had any kind of proper hashtable, too 22:26:01 (pre-monadic haskell, that is) 22:26:19 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@79.115.164.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:44 *old ghc, that is. 22:26:51 and it's IO monad. 22:26:54 ah 22:26:55 *post IO 22:31:15 wgl: What is the exact error message? 22:31:51 ("bad unicode character" doesn't sound right) 22:32:22 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.154.77] has joined #lisp 22:32:53 decoding error on stream 22:32:53 # for "file /home/wgl/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/..." 22:32:53 {1004466C31}> 22:32:53 (:EXTERNAL-FORMAT :ASCII): 22:32:53 the octet sequence (195) cannot be decoded. 22:32:53 [Condition of type SB-INT:STREAM-DECODING-ERROR] 22:32:54 22:33:04 what's LANG? 22:33:35 wgl: For some reason, your Lisp system uses ASCII external format. 22:33:49 wgl: And this file contains UTF-8 characters. 22:34:28 Checking *features*, i see ':sb-unicode' 22:35:01 wgl: That has nothing to do with it. It has to do with how the file was opened, and it uses :ASCII external format. 22:35:02 Sounds like I built sbcl wrong? 22:35:09 no, it doesn't 22:35:51 Well, I have this on muliple systems here, and don't get these errors on my other systems. This one is CAOS and the others are linux ubuntu. 22:36:08 what's LANG? 22:36:10 wgl: can you answer pkhuong's question? 22:36:49 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:37:11 Er, looking for LANG. Where should I be finding this? 22:37:32 in the shell 22:37:35 wgl: echo $LANG 22:37:52 Duh. it says 'C'. 22:38:03 there you go. 22:38:24 weird. 22:38:51 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 22:41:15 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:38 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:18 pkhuong: beach: stassats: setting it then restarting emacs fixed it. Thanks guys. 22:43:56 this danged CAOS linux is my least favorite. backspace doesn't even work. 22:44:34 it'll teach to write right the first time 22:45:05 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:45:17 or actually setup the system? 22:45:23 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 22:46:47 stassats: Yes, it does do that. However, i have often been accused of having 30% of the characters that I type being the backspace. 22:47:33 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:49:18 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:06 p_l|backup: Yes, I should do that. Usually I do builds and dev on other systems, but since it does not get updated like the ubuntu systems, recent builds on ubuntu don't work here due to library version issues. now have to build on this one. 22:51:26 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:41 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:48 Hey guys. Can someone please tell me a good Common Lisp implementation to get setup with for someone new to Lisp? Im currently using Lispbox but having compatability issues since its not maintained im told. 22:58:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:31 CCL is a good one that is free. 22:59:37 clozure common lisp 22:59:56 sbcl is a good one, and probably the most popular around here. 23:00:12 :Fade ok thanks 23:00:39 if you're running windows or OSX, Clozure is a good fit. 23:01:05 I'm on OS X, tried setting up SBCL last night but got wildy lost 23:01:33 Might give Clozure a go, I know thats what was being used in Lispbox so it would make sense to stay with what I know so far 23:02:11 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 23:02:41 Is Clozure maintained? 23:02:46 mobydick: yes 23:03:09 mobydick: I use sbcl on osx; works quite nicely for me. 23:03:11 and OSX is a particularly well-supported platform for it 23:05:17 mobydick: http://twitter.com/#!/cclcheckins 23:06:17 -!- georgek [~user@184-77-70-234.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:29 Thanks for all the quick responses, makes life a hell of a lot easier than poking around in the dark :) 23:07:16 wgl: Have you tried using threads? 23:07:44 didn't SBCL's threading trip some ancient Mach resource leak? 23:08:03 drdo: I use threads in my linux boxes; don't recall trying threads on osx. 23:08:48 p_l|backup: I recall there being some problems with sbcl on osx when using threads 23:09:01 And my thread usage is pretty tame. in one of my processes, i use two LRTs. The rest are engineered to be non-threaded entirely. 23:09:54 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-237-236-14.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:11 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:24 Threads were so much easier back in my real-time assembler days; coroutines were very easy to do. 23:10:25 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:28 oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has joined #lisp 23:15:08 drdo: Apparently some operation used by SBCL ends up using Mach IPC stack, which leaks resources because designers assumed people would power cycle often enough to make it irrevelant 23:15:44 (been posted on some mailing list, with a link here, but I can't find it now) 23:17:22 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:21:14 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.190] has joined #lisp 23:22:14 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@di8-35157.dialin.huji.ac.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:23:27 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:23:41 gary byers 23:23:53 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 23:24:21 p_l|backup: That's interesting :P 23:24:38 I very rarely turn off my laptop 23:24:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:04 But i fortunately no longer have a mac so yay 23:25:41 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:25:54 I actually have two mac laptops. 23:27:12 I had bought one personally couple years ago; newer one purchased by new employer. 23:28:53 -!- cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:29:01 I bought one and after a couple of months was desperate to sell it, finally was able to some months ago 23:29:14 What didn't you like about it? 23:29:47 I disliked OSX with a passion and linux didn't run very well there 23:30:07 cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has joined #lisp 23:30:41 Ah. some of the guys are really anti-osx, but as part of the deal we get vmware fusion and have at least linux there. 23:31:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:31:47 wgl: OSX is in a class by itself in terms of bondage and discipline 23:33:13 Yes, it is a very weird mix of freebsd and mach and who knows what else. 23:33:23 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:36:17 Hey guys whats the command to load "~/.emacs" in clozure? I cant figure it out :P 23:36:38 mobydick: ~/.emacs is for emacs. you would not load it in a CL implementation. 23:37:19 :xach So i've got clozure and i'm trying to setup SLIME, am I on the right path? 23:37:20 Though in general, the function for loading and evaluating CL code in a file is LOAD, e.g. (load "myfile.lisp") 23:37:58 mobydick: do you have quicklisp loaded in clozure cl? 23:38:10 nope, is that my first step? 23:39:30 mobydick: when i get set up, i install a CL, install Quicklisp, then use (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") and follow its instructions. 23:39:50 Usually takes about 3 minutes to get going. 23:39:55 ok sweet thanks 23:40:22 i've got the quicklisp.lisp file.. what command do I use to install this? Is it some sort of load and compile command? 23:41:06 mobydick: (load "quicklisp.lisp") 23:41:27 http://www.mohiji.org/ has some step-by-step guides IIRC 23:41:57 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:02 ok thanks 23:42:22 Yes, "sweet" is the word for quicklisp. 23:42:58 "quick" also 23:43:37 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pool-71-175-25-141.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:38 Hi! I'm trying to use sbcl-1.0.23 on FreeBSD 6.2 with SLIME from CVS, and I get this error: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.ecl.general/6623 23:45:03 Emacs is 22.3.1 23:45:21 Which one should I upgrade first? ;-) 23:45:48 I'm in the process of upgrading FreeBSD anyway, but is this a doomed combination? 23:45:54 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:56 emacs, then sbcl, then freebsd 23:46:10 does it make any difference if i'm using the 32 or 64 bit version of Clozure? 23:46:30 Ok, thanks. I'll try upgrading emacs first. 23:46:43 mobydick: there's a difference, but when you need to care, you'll know why you need to care. 23:47:00 unless you are already hip to the benefits of huge fixnums and immediate single-floats! 23:51:13 -!- cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.131.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:31 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:53:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-9-150.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:57:16 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-118.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]