00:00:23 you mean like not using memcpy 00:00:41 p_l|backup: SD were in charge of witchhunts within the NSDAP. That means that their purpose was to make sure that the people giving the horrible orders would definitely have them horrible enough... 00:00:45 I was just curious 00:00:58 ChibaPet: heh. Read about MKULTRA, testing bioweapons on San Francisco etc... that's some really stomach-turning stuff 00:01:13 I will, it doesn't ring a bell. 00:01:17 testing audio freq weapons 00:01:26 p_l|backup: You know what's the _really_ creepy bit about Project MK-ULTRA? 00:01:48 Navy tested them on marine mammals (would melt there brain) 00:01:48 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 00:02:09 Nixfreak1: better than dumping radiation or testing if a combination of mental torture, drugs and rape will let them program someone... done to minors 00:02:20 p_l|backup: They burnt all the substantial documentation when they realised there would be an investigation. 00:02:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-155-86.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:52 Odin-: tried. It got misfiled, and escaped burning. Victims weren't recovered fully, though 00:02:59 jorgeu [~jorgeu@186-184-188-116.genericrev.telcel.net.ve] has joined #lisp 00:03:29 p_l|backup: Only bits and pieces. 00:03:32 Shouldn't you be more worried about modern things (e.g. black sites) rather than fifty years old things? and offtopic but eh 00:03:45 in a way, USSR was nicer. It was kinda upfront about what happened (that is, everyone knows, even if they don't talk) 00:04:40 Bike: Well, only worrying about modern things tends to give people the impression that the modern things are an aberration. They're not. It's a pattern. 00:04:44 Bike: well, the best way to deal with USA requires stepping out of NPT, so it's sometimes hard to do 00:05:03 NPT? 00:05:17 Nuclear Proliferation Treaty 00:06:26 "those that don't learn history are doomed to repeat it"... 00:06:30 nothing makes one play nice like having a R36MUTTH targted at every big task force, ICBM launch pad, and other important sites 00:07:30 I think I'm missing what that has to do with the CIA being the CIA. 00:07:31 (the biggest, meaniest, "makes your enemy shit their pants" ICBM) 00:08:22 I find it ironic that by their own definition the CIA fits the description of a terrorist organization 00:09:20 ezakimak: uh, they are one. All such organizations are sanctioned terrorist-like organizations, it's just that they are normally on shorter leash 00:09:35 but who's on the end of the leash? 00:09:48 certainly no the american people 00:09:51 not 00:10:05 and I think therein lies the problem 00:10:14 No, the U.S. state is. 00:11:59 one thing I recently found funny, is that if killing off bin Laden this way was to be made legal (I'm not talking about not killing him - I prefer the "give him a fair trial then hang him" variant), then we should be allowed to off, among other's, Dubya 00:13:23 I like the idea where the politicians et al. pulling the strings in government are considered military, not civilians :> 00:13:58 isn't that SOP in totalitarian govts? 00:14:58 ezakimak: not really. But what I am talking about is the difference it makes in international law 00:15:10 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-248-163.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 00:15:16 there are military dictatorships, of course 00:15:23 please take this elsewhere. 00:15:26 in int'l law, military leaders become accountable for foreign policy actions? 00:15:27 true 00:15:48 that was one impressive off-top 00:15:55 quite 00:15:57 pkhuong: hey, you're alive 00:16:04 I got my GC load down to 3% again 00:16:16 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:16:23 is there a way to tune the GC aggressiveness in my sbcl? 00:16:33 Phoodus: I saw that. 00:16:36 misread the bit about generation-bytes-consed-between-gcs for gen 0 being ignored :-P 00:16:43 hah. 00:16:51 ah, k, just wanted to say the config really did its thing well 00:17:21 bumped the nursery up to 5GB, and things seem to be just peachy keen :) 00:18:29 ezakimak: section 7.1.3 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Garbage-Collection 00:20:55 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.138.8] has joined #lisp 00:21:24 thankyou 00:23:07 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.207.0] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:26:54 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.233.228] has joined #lisp 00:27:06 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:31:10 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:32:55 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:16 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:35:49 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.2.222] has joined #lisp 00:35:49 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 00:35:55 Chat7882 [roizqb@app5.chatmosphere.org] has joined #lisp 00:36:27 hi 00:37:59 -!- Chat7882 is now known as nero456 00:38:22 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.11.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:38:57 ;) 00:39:45 -!- nero456 [roizqb@app5.chatmosphere.org] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:59 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-007-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:22 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:43:19 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:44:37 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:12 -!- jorgeu [~jorgeu@186-184-188-116.genericrev.telcel.net.ve] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:11 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.199] has joined #lisp 00:47:49 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:31 (defun folio-count (pag) "Return the number of printed folios that the PAGination contains." 00:48:31 (reduce #'+ (map 'list #'1+ pag))) 00:48:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:36 Quite proud of that 00:49:02 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:21 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.199] has joined #lisp 00:51:56 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:46 -!- pnq [~nick@172.131.183.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:51 Qworkescence: Congratulations. Is pag a list? 00:54:32 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:23 Guest10244 [~richard@218.64.201.104] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 (reduce #'+ pag :key #'1+) 00:58:55 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.233.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59:04 pkhuong: I was going to do things one step at a time :) 01:00:44 pkhuong, I don't want to hear it 01:01:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:28 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:05:55 pyrony [~epic@107.24.206.28] has joined #lisp 01:13:18 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:14:40 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B633.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:16:08 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:28 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.138.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:19:08 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:19:43 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:23:47 -!- Nixfreak1 [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:24:00 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:24:29 In my years of experience, the 4 pillairs of enterprise software development: Global mutable variables, cut-and-paste, object-relational mapping, implementing the stateless as state machines 01:26:22 pnq [~nick@ACA28B20.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:37 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:35:40 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:01 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-hilcoouqairldajh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42:05 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:42:21 -!- pyrony [~epic@107.24.206.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:44:43 Modius, this is 100% true according to this enterprise code I'm working on for work 01:44:57 globals out the wazoo 01:45:11 5 years, out the door soon (one way or another) and I've figured out the truth of it. 01:47:12 Qworkescence: I've got one that is the "gordian knot" of mixing globals + bad class design + inheritance + state all in one. I'm going to post it to the net one day, "the unrefactorable" 01:47:27 ._. 01:47:44 The "Excalibur" of shitey software 01:48:29 Modius: thedailywtf, then? 01:48:34 "He who draws sanity from this code. . . . is. . . . still basically an idiot for even wasting his time with it" 01:49:07 Haha - I live dailywtf 01:49:53 We had a serious bug that kept us from shipping the product for three weeks, and it turns out it was because a previous coder put a global variable somewhere in the middle of a file, and implicitly passed it as the default in many &optional lambda lists, and the errors we were getting were the most unobvious things 01:49:59 Any large company Enterprise IT org could keep that site filled up - assuming there was someone around to even *notice* the wtf 01:50:23 Qworkescence: Man, you get to do your enterprise in lisp? Orbitz? 01:50:50 We're C#3, although those of us who use it as anything but Java are technically breaking the unwritten rules. 01:51:58 Modius, Yes and no, respectively. Don't think it's much better than enterprise in Java when you're stuck with working with a huge codebase that is wrong in all kinds of ways, like having code to be compiled in the ASD file, and state all over the place, making incremental development a pain in the behind. 01:52:19 not even lisp, is pretty by definition 01:53:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:53:13 Qworkescence: I guess there aren't a lot of huge-project lisp stories out there, I guess you can make big messes in anything. 01:53:26 Qworkescence: then still, I think coding with a bad code base in lisp isn't worse than coding with a bad code base in C# or Java... 01:53:28 There's no real reason for me to assume a programmer skill demographic just because of language. 01:53:29 Modius, well you can especially make a mess in lisp 01:54:08 I think the only benefit you may get is you can shrink your mess. 01:54:26 yes 01:55:47 I've learned (note - may be different in truly powerful statically checked languages) that the type-protected->nonprotected (db) human error point is expensive to move around, and if it's large enough you have just as little compile safety. Perhaps less if the "type checked" stuff is passing a bunch of bools or items of the same type that you can mis-order anyway. 01:56:17 I analyze risk errors against the attack surface for human error, not the amount of a (potentially larger) perimeter that happens to be protected. 01:56:23 As I'm talking on here, I'm ripping out this entire DSL someone wrote using a good number of reader macros in order to specify how a form (like, paper form with fields and places to insert photos) should be printed and printed on. 01:56:50 Man, you should write a blog or something. I think this is the first time I've heard CL horror stories. 01:57:00 I mean, they're not implausible, I just haven't heard them. 01:57:11 I have a blog, but haven't written about any of this. Perhaps I will. 01:57:40 I still think you could be outdone by Perl horror stories; but they'll be interesting. 01:58:21 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 01:58:31 i agree 02:01:54 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:02:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:03:48 Modius: type safety is trumped by passing everything as System.Object 02:03:57 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:57 :) 02:04:04 and yes, that's something from the first .NET app I worked with 02:04:17 that's more a C#1-ism. We're not quite *that* bad :;) 02:04:42 OTOH, I found that global variables can deliver unprecedented clarity to the code when used properly 02:05:03 Modius: it was an unholy mess of VB.NET and C#, back with .NET 1.1 and 2.0 02:05:18 Global variables make sense where it is a matter of identity. 02:05:31 All interned symbols in CL, for example, are global variables. 02:06:00 Zhivago: that's my point, but you stated it better than me 02:06:11 Zhivago: They're all local. 02:06:22 pjb: Local to what? 02:06:29 To their home package. 02:06:31 Makes less sense mutable as the API to and member of a base class that's used for different customers on the same server :( 02:06:33 No. 02:06:52 I get to hear "well don't run them at the same time, silly" a lot. 02:06:52 The qualified symbol name is equivalent to the symbol's identity. 02:07:13 That's universal -- e.g., a::b is a::b irrespective of your locale. 02:09:49 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:09:54 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:14 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:13:20 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:13:25 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 02:14:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:18:36 jfleming: I don't know if being told - a few weeks ago - by IT - that my new machine would have 3 gigs Ram (but Raid 0) in it because "nobody here has more than 4 gigs, and we discovered that most of what slowed the machines down was hitting the hard drive" counts as a dailywtf 02:20:03 Modius: heh. use SSDs? And fast networked storage? 02:20:26 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:57 When you run out of ram your drive thrashes by swapping - they saw that as a drive speed problem. 02:21:12 Hell, when I do the same stuff on my home machine with 8 it thrashes 02:21:42 Our application is supposed to be secure, and here we find this in a LET http://paste.lisp.org/display/122148 02:21:45 Modius: well, my idea was to reduce the need for block cache 02:22:11 Qworkescence: ... oh wow 02:22:30 Qworkescence: btw, where do you work? :) 02:22:45 Perhaps this file in this directory is secure? 02:22:59 Modius: I... what? That doesn't even make sense. So, what, they've solved the problem of thrashing by giving you a striped array so that it thrashes faster? 02:23:09 jfleming: Right 02:23:22 *facedesk* *facedesk* *facedesk* 02:23:31 jfleming: Oh, and you know why they were building me a new computer? The last 3 gig raid-0 POS they gave me lost a drive and a lot of important data 02:23:46 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:49 p_l|backup, a place that makes machines for acquiring certain biometric data 02:23:52 I've built raid-0 machines at home for my last 3; BUT I put hella lot of fans inside them around the drives. 02:24:03 Modius: I have two answers to that. RAID-6 and automated daily backups. 02:29:34 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:22 kanru` [~user@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 02:34:56 leyyer_su [~user@182.151.8.157] has joined #lisp 02:37:33 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:42:30 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has joined #lisp 02:43:10 pyrony [~epic@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:44:12 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:14 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:58:23 -!- spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:35 symbole [~user@ool-ad02b0d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:46 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 03:08:30 usm [~anthony@114.31.211.33] has joined #lisp 03:08:42 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:09 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:13:19 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:15 -!- joker` [~joker@p549183F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:47 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:05 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 03:26:18 Fah [~Fah@paranoia.neverlight.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:19 -!- pyrony [~epic@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:27:38 Heya, I'm learning lisp using sbcl + various tutorials. I recently discovered quicklisp. Once you install a library, how do you load it when you restart sbcl? Yes, I'm that new to this. 03:28:37 Fah: you can do ql:quickload again. 03:28:57 Fah: see? Nothing simplier. 03:29:04 hrm, I'm doing something dumb. sec. 03:29:14 gigamonkey: well, I'd like to use ql:load instead of ql:quickload. 03:29:21 Think of ql:quickload as the way to load the library that is smart enough to install the library if necessary. 03:29:26 pjb: talk to Xach. 03:29:35 Right, sorry. It's late. 03:30:06 gigamonkey: thanks, my noob mistake was not first doing a (load "~/quicklisp/ 03:30:15 (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") 03:30:25 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:56 no biggie, i just didn't know the right way to bootstrap the system 03:30:57 thanks 03:30:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:20 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 03:31:21 but yeah, quicklisp is a very nice tool 03:32:03 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.46.135.117] has joined #lisp 03:33:34 Fah: you may want to evaluate (ql:add-to-init-file) 03:33:46 Which will take care of doing that every time you start Lisp. 03:34:16 heh, cool. I should read more closely. It told me to do that and I promptly ignored it. 03:34:17 thanks 03:35:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:35:42 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:41:55 -!- Fah [~Fah@paranoia.neverlight.com] has left #lisp 03:48:42 drinkin' kool-aid writin' lisp 03:49:34 nice 03:49:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.46.135.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:55 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.46.155.157] has joined #lisp 03:54:47 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:56:50 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.46.155.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:00:35 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:25 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.219.151] has joined #lisp 04:06:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.238.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:08 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 04:09:54 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.43.104] has joined #lisp 04:16:24 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-173-252.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:36 aill [~as@115.69.33.4] has joined #lisp 04:17:38 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-63.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:17:48 anyone aware of a way to password protect an existing .exe? Like end goal is to call my command line exe like so: myexe.exe /Ppassword 04:18:00 -!- codewad [~codewad@50-47-240-200.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:18:26 codewad [~codewad@50-47-240-200.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:55 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:19:14 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-215-82.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:23:51 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:59 aill: depends on how baroque you want to get. If you're talking about a self-contained Lisp executable and you want to implement the password-protection within it, the first thing off the top of my head is a trampoline deal. The initial app takes the password/passphrase as its argument, uses that to decrypt a binary blob, then attempts to load said blob as a .fasl. 04:29:20 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:45 aill: yes. Just look at how to implement viruses. Then, cypher the code of the binary, and have some decyphering code at the beginning 04:30:15 i dont need to encrypt anything, i just want to do something like jfleming said 04:30:16 But the easy way would be to treat it as a separate problem, and find a Windows expert to help you do that to any .exe 04:30:29 MyFile.exe /Ppassword If correct run exe, if not, exit 04:30:59 there are no windows experts in #windows, only nubs :p 04:31:00 aill: if you're not encrypting it, what's the password for? 04:31:18 its to stop people being able to know what it does, i only want my program to access it 04:31:35 Oh, you said "existing .exe"? Yeah, that's a Windows problem; out of scope for #lisp, sorry. 04:32:06 well i want to know how to do this via lisp... dont think thats out of scope.. 04:32:15 aill: If you don't encode, all I have to do is debug, and make the functon "ispasswordok()" return true 04:32:19 aill: via lisp? 04:32:32 yeah thats ok Axioplase_... not after anything fancy 04:32:45 this just a piss poor attempt at security through obscuraty 04:33:11 aill: in that case, Winzip is your friend. 04:33:21 I mean, you have an existing binary file, and without modifying it, you want it to take another parameter, the password? 04:33:23 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:33:25 yeh i dont want to extract the .exe to temp either 04:33:43 yeah Axioplase_, but of course modidying the exe to not run if password is wrong 04:33:43 I don't even see how lisp could be useful here 04:34:04 aill: I think you can load the binary in memory, and run its code 04:34:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:35:22 ttied 04:35:22 tried 04:35:26 virus checkers go insane 04:35:28 lol 04:35:39 they just immediately think you are dropping a trojan 04:35:42 or whatever 04:35:56 Gosh, I can't think why they'd draw that conclusion... 04:36:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:36:12 Just put part of the program on another machine. 04:37:14 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 04:37:58 Excellent call. Actually, I'd go further: put the whole thing on another machine, so that the user is actually invoking a script that connects to that machine via ssh. The password in question is your ssh password, so you get password protection _and_ you don't have to change the binary in any way. It'll even get past a virus checker. 04:38:07 Now all you need is sshd on a Windows machine :) 04:39:13 What I would do is definitely do like a virus: add a routine at beginning to ask for a password, use it to decypher the rest of the code, and then run it. Though it ain't trivial. Or I would google "password protect my binaries". 04:40:27 axio: This is an exercise in stupidity and futility. 04:40:40 aill: what about creating a user and assigning ownership of the file to that user? 04:40:43 axio: In order for the program to run it must expose itself to the user. 04:41:01 axio: If it exposes itself to the user, they can expose it to someone else. 04:41:34 axio: And that's all there is to it -- the only protection you have if is no-one actually wants to run your software enough to bother getting some 12 year old hacker in Russia to crack it. 04:41:45 interesting concept... 04:41:46 And if that's the case, why are bothering? 04:41:53 er, you bothering. 04:41:54 Zhivago: Don't think I believe that what he wants to do is useful 04:42:10 Oh, aill is the idiot in question -- sorry. 04:42:24 well he only has two options, file system permissions and an encrypted file 04:42:41 the rest seems self explanatory 04:42:46 No. He can put part of the system somewhere he controls. 04:42:53 That's all. 04:43:05 holycow: I disagree. Between RFC1925 and Rube Goldberg, there's always a more elaborate and impractical way to accomplish it. 04:43:06 He could distribute code, yes 04:43:06 The rest just boils down to apathy and legal recourse. 04:43:18 jfleming: lol 04:43:54 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 04:44:18 Use CORBA, RMI and a bit of actors to remotely execute with mapreduce parts of the program. 04:44:31 Of course, he'd have to XMLize the results. 04:44:41 omfg wow 04:44:43 hahahaha 04:44:47 But that would be soooo Security 2.0! 04:44:51 Axioplase_: you win the interwebs tongiht 04:45:09 i feel trolled however 04:45:12 \o/ 04:45:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 04:45:34 *Axioplase_* takes his prize, and goes back to more trivial things. 04:45:48 That looks like a chick falling into a grinding machine. 04:50:18 -!- aill [~as@115.69.33.4] has quit [] 04:50:39 Oops. You reckon we upset him? 04:50:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:08 Perhaps shocked him into thinking. 04:51:33 xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:29 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.138.8] has joined #lisp 04:56:15 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 04:56:25 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 04:56:30 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:57:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:57:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:00 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:15 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58:29 evening 04:59:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 04:59:14 Afternoon 04:59:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Client Quit] 05:02:19 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:04:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.43.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:05:26 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:06 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:31 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:41 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:31 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 05:11:50 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.216.138.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:12:14 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:16:20 loke_ [~elias@bb121-6-220-10.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:18:50 -!- leyyer_su [~user@182.151.8.157] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:18:55 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:01 -!- loke [~elias@bb219-74-161-1.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:20:56 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:25 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-241-106.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:03 -!- loke_ is now known as loke 05:23:40 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-173-252.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:25:25 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:25:33 LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has joined #lisp 05:26:05 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7E4B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:19 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:32:34 -!- symbole 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[~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has joined #lisp 05:43:55 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:45:01 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-241-106.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:35 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-115-98.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:35 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:26 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:49:06 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has joined #lisp 05:57:17 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:58:39 hi 05:59:57 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:05:07 Hi P-dat 06:06:01 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-115-98.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:06:34 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-246-9.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:43 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:08:33 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 06:09:13 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 06:10:31 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-104-67.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:29 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 06:16:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:11 Does anyone know some websites made with weblocks besides the two listed on the weblocks website? 06:20:48 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:22:54 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:25:08 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:18 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Client Quit] 06:25:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:27:06 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:29:20 LakatosI: I do...just a sec. 06:29:33 cool 06:30:29 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:30:40 -!- benny [~benny@i577A30EC.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:31:59 LakatosI: http://aulapolska.pl/ is one 06:32:11 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:33:11 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:33:15 A *much* less motivating example (but one for which there is a small amount of documented and freely available code) would be: http://clockwork.redlinernotes.com/ 06:33:38 LakatosI: I wrote a brief weblocks blog series about it. 06:34:04 link to your blog :) ? 06:34:41 oh... 06:34:45 I feel stupid :P 06:34:48 LakatosI: Sure. One more production weblocks site: http://oddsknockout.com/ 06:35:04 LakatosI: Why's that? 06:36:02 LakatosI: Well, don't feel stupid. I'm exhausted and going to get some sleep though. Good luck with your lisping! 06:36:03 I just realized that clockwoks was a subdomain 06:36:09 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 06:36:24 and that your website was right there under my nose 06:37:25 LakatosI: Last link, http://redlinernotes.com/blog/?p=1277 ...now sleep... 06:37:29 redline6561: I am just looking for some examples to show my friend to motivate him to use weblocks 06:37:41 Thanks for all the help 06:37:46 Good night 06:38:02 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-55-92.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:38:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:39:11 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-160.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:39:50 benny [~benny@i577A1959.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:43:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:44:10 splittist [~splittist@169-200.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:45:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:45:46 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:45:46 good morning 06:46:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:46:35 -!- tylerdma1e is now known as tylerdmace 06:51:26 Good morning to you too 06:53:20 Landr [~user@78-21-53-115.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:53:47 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:45 -!- Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:56:01 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 06:57:06 tippenein [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:50 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:59:04 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 07:00:26 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Quit: war] 07:05:10 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:05:49 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 07:07:17 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 07:07:34 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:13 beach, chao Thay 07:09:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:10:25 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:13:22 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:13:46 Kneferilis_ [d41f62d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.98.210] has joined #lisp 07:13:51 Hello! 07:15:19 -!- Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:15:20 I have installed ABCL Common Lisp in a C# program in .NET. What I do is writing inline ABCL code in C# and then run the ABCL code. Is that restrictive compared calling Lisp objects and functions form lisp files? 07:17:24 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 07:18:43 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 07:18:55 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:21:09 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 07:21:42 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21:57 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:58 ABCL in C#? 07:22:36 jdz: yes 07:22:40 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.130.133] has joined #lisp 07:22:57 Kneferilis_: How did you accomplish that? 07:24:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:17 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:27:23 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.130.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:30:05 i have a pure .net port of abcl from 2006.. based on when it didnt use a javaclassloader 07:30:09 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-21-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:15 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 07:30:45 well did some tests with ehu the other month and it seems it can run without javaclassloader again? 07:31:27 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 07:31:30 dmiles_afk: a quick questionn? I have installed ABCL Common Lisp in a C# program in .NET. What I do is writing inline ABCL code in C# and then run the ABCL code. Is that restrictive compared calling Lisp objects and functions form lisp files? 07:31:40 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Client Quit] 07:32:54 nope not at all i morte often subclass Primtive and code things in C# 07:33:11 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-63-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:22 i love ABCL but i dont trust its compilation 07:33:42 to always do what a java or C# coder would do better 07:34:22 i have a few diatribles ont eh jvm-l list as to why 07:35:34 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:35:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:36:16 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:09 heh here is one: http://markmail.org/message/ie5qoloqcof25tal 07:37:46 starting at "Some jvm languages have problems left to solve:" 07:40:47 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-92-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:41:05 so Kneferilis: i agree with your methodology 07:42:11 dmiles_afk: if but I run code ABCL code with eval in my C# program, how my objects in the ABCL code will keep state? 07:43:10 keeping state.. you mean .. making it easy for both lisp and c# to use a hastbale/dictioary? 07:43:29 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 07:44:04 keeping state = share and update each others datastructures? 07:44:12 dmiles_afk: yes 07:44:57 in practice in the case of a Dictionary its better to keep in Dictionary vs a ALIST 07:45:00 dmiles_afk: how about interfacing with swank? 07:45:11 flip214: it does 07:45:20 as much as that versio n of ABCL did 07:45:27 which iirc it was fine 07:45:28 well, then it does keep state anyway ... you just have to parse some kind of IDs 07:46:03 it seems like extra work.. but i think a Dictionary is a good idea 07:47:18 when you want like a Dictioary its better to use Dictioary 07:47:22 oops 07:47:29 when you want like a Dictioary its better to use Dictioary 07:47:36 MoALTz [~no@92.8.156.160] has joined #lisp 07:47:51 when you want like a Dictioary its better to use Dictioary 07:48:28 then write a couple C# priomtives for manupluating the Dictionary 07:48:47 (Primitives are fun callable from ABCL) 07:49:00 dmiles_afk: say, I write an class in lisp and use eval in my C# program to run the code, once eval finished running the ABCL code, the class vanishes? 07:49:09 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:50:00 nope.. it is alive in the static lifepan of Interpretor.getInterpretr() 07:50:30 dmiles_afk: amazing 07:50:40 dmiles_afk: and how do I interact with the clasS? 07:50:46 the first Interpretor.createInstance() is cached in a stastic filed in java 07:50:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:59 static field 07:51:06 right easyE? 07:51:38 nice 07:52:12 Kneferilis_: you interact with the class via caching the symbols that manipluate the class.. SOMECLASSMETHOD.execute(...) 07:53:00 oh, my god 07:53:17 var SOMECLASSMETHOD = Lisp.findSymbol("STWEEMENGINE-METHOD1")l 07:53:22 dmiles_afk: you are a software genius 07:54:16 many in here have whatched me ask the same exact questioins for over 15 years and might disagree ;) 07:55:15 though i am still waiting for suitable answers! 07:56:32 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7F5F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:56:37 stop googling people for hopw long freenode existed.. i tormented some on efnet #Lisp like Zhivago 07:58:44 but pretty much each symbol function is a Primitive and the instance of the primtive has execute/N method that contains all the accessor and required code 07:58:49 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 07:58:58 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:00:27 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-pzfargrzlxflqrps] has joined #lisp 08:00:49 so holding a ref to the LispSymbol which refs the Primitive or Macro makes the class available 08:02:56 for creating really nice Mixins (C# abnd LispObject hybrids) ABCL must convert its SYSTEM-CLASSes to interfaces 08:04:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:13 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:07:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.115.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:07:24 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.231.63] has joined #lisp 08:07:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:08:12 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has joined #lisp 08:09:16 for speed optimization it can continue to downcast like: if (lo instanceof Cons) { return ((Cons)lo).car;} else (lo instanceof ICons) { return ((ICons)lo).getCar(); } 08:10:03 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 08:10:19 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:10:26 simplest way is to make 'car' calls: StaticConsFunctions.carOf(lo) 08:10:56 and make carOf method the spegetti code 08:12:02 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:12:04 got to go 08:12:07 all 50,000 call sites uing CAR will hit that single static method so hard it will be jitted in no time 08:12:08 dmiles_afk: thanks 08:12:16 -!- Kneferilis_ [d41f62d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.98.210] has left #lisp 08:14:52 one can also precompile to native code... 08:15:35 hehewoxin [~hehewoxin@218.246.117.40] has joined #lisp 08:16:33 yes 08:17:20 well, at least for .NET the two main implementations support that 08:18:41 .. and even on top of that.. if that when one does extend or need overload CAR from an interpreted class that carOf can fall back if its not a SYSTEM-CLASS to a class based play area 08:19:37 or follow the ICons to where it leads 08:19:43 -!- hehewoxin [~hehewoxin@218.246.117.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:20:48 Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:21:06 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-248-163.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:21:33 it would be interesting to retarget ABCL to .NET, with DLR et al. 08:24:08 me too! 08:24:19 cheater79 [~cheater23@ip-80-226-238-47.vodafone-net.de] has joined #lisp 08:24:46 i've been discussing with some .net folks about what features ILASM (what retarget ABCL to .NET would emit) can provide outside normal C#.. it fits into probably about 10 instructions thast can be ilasmed and callable via a stic class 08:25:03 static class 08:25:18 static class written in ilasm 08:26:51 *dmiles_afk* just thinking about decompilablity to the emitted code 08:27:36 nice for the workflow of getting to good outputed bytecode 08:28:11 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 08:28:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 08:28:11 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:28:34 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 08:29:06 p_l|backup: that'd be most welcome! 08:30:14 ikvm.runtime.class2ilasm also can help 08:30:26 dmiles_afk: the nice thing is that .NET had rather explicit support for code generation at runtime 08:31:47 p_l|backup: do you think what has happened to Mono will be bad for .NET as an 'open' platform 08:32:01 -!- Guest10244 [~richard@218.64.201.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:34:36 p_l|backup: indeed! 08:35:56 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756042.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:18 .net emitting libs are very simular to asm.jar/bcel.jar 08:37:08 it be easier if ABCL hit an external lib such as those that popped out the right dialect 08:39:44 that lib then targets the right platform.. i suppoose the same thing just as easy from lisp.. its just making sure that one is pushing thru an api insteadof wrtiting opcodes at some point 08:42:32 at some point inside of ABCL's compiler-pass2.lisp 08:42:40 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 08:42:48 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-82-184.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:44:08 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:47:27 francogrex [~user@109.130.147.96] has joined #lisp 08:48:20 kai__ [~kai@e179014015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:48:25 -!- kai__ is now known as wetnosed 08:48:31 Hi, when the function 'member' doesn't find a match it returns nil. Can we force it to return another values, like 0 for example? 08:48:40 xan_ [~xan@194.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:50:20 Sgeo__ [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:42 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:53:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756042.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:42 -!- Sgeo_ [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:55:39 francogrex: I don't think it's a good idea 08:55:56 (or (member ...) 0) - but ^^ 08:56:07 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:57:06 francogrex: wrap it in your own defun/macro? 08:57:27 member returns lists, why do you want to return 0? 08:57:34 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 08:57:48 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:00:42 -!- no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [] 09:01:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:02:18 no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:04:03 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179014015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:12 silenius [~silenus@p4FC231FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:38 stassats: well I am building a structure using member, when it find something it return the value otherwise it returns nil like: (... (NIL NIL NIL (("A "[19-65]" "v1" "[2004-2007]") 19)) (NIL NIL NIL (("D" "[19-65]" "v1" "[2008-2011]") 29) ...)) 09:06:11 those nils would like them to be zeros, of course I can change them later on after building but better as I am building it 09:08:49 you might want (or (member ...) `(()0)) 09:09:04 dmiles_afk: are you sure? 09:09:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.231.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:27 as it feels like (("D" "[19-65]" "v1" "[2008-2011]") 29) 09:09:29 sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:41 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.231.63] has joined #lisp 09:10:13 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 09:10:36 flip214: if he expects to see (cadr ..) and have a n umber thee 09:10:49 number there* 09:11:06 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:11:44 um #'cdar 09:12:00 Ok, you've got a different interpretation of the input and output ... I thought that one result of member is (("A "[19-65]" "v1" "[2004-2007]") 19) 09:13:48 I expect to see: (... (0 0 0 (("A "[19-65]" "v1" "[2004-2007]") 19)) (0 0 0 (("D" "[19-65]" "v1" "[2008-2011]") 29) ...) ... 09:14:41 as a result of (loop for i in D collect (list(car (member (car i) A :test #'equal :key #'car)) ... 09:14:46 flip214: ok yeah he wants (or (member ...) 0) 09:15:16 dmiles_afk: ok probably I will try your suugestion 09:15:57 flip214's suggestion .. he can have it.. since ussing 0 is no better than nil 09:16:17 dmiles_afk: exactly that :) thx 09:17:55 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.161.72.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:19:09 Sorry I meant flip214 your suggestion (or (car (member (car i) A :test #'equal :key #'car)) 0) ... is ok 09:19:29 p_l|backup: why you don't think it's a good idea? 09:19:41 never mind ... a lot of my best ideas are floating around, without anyone remembering me 09:20:39 flip214: come on it's just that i wans't concentrating, doing several things at the same time. 09:20:40 there is beauty in NIL over zero.. you can (car nil) or (car '(("A "[19-65]" "v1" "[2004-2007]") 19))) later.. you cant (car 0) 09:21:58 dmiles_afk: I know but for what I need it, having zeros readily there is easier for computation, but in general I agree with you sure 09:23:51 francogrex: sorry, wasn't meant to be about you. just some reminiscence. 09:24:07 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:25:10 hi, i loads my file, compile it in slime but while calling functions in repl it says => The function MAKE-CD is undefined.. ! function also autocomplete's ! 09:26:41 are you in the wrong package? 09:27:29 Are there any footages on the internet of how one worked on a Lisp Machine 09:27:52 I keep hearing about the magical nature of the development environments back in the day 09:28:03 Yet I can't find any footage :( 09:28:10 flip214: im in # 09:28:23 and where's the function? 09:28:37 does the file have a (in-package ...)? 09:28:39 ;-) in the other package ! 09:30:05 got it. 09:34:25 <_3b> antoszka: (and anyone else interested) code that made the 3d character images the other day is at https://github.com/3b/3bgl-misc now, probably not actually runnable though, until cl-opengl catches up 09:34:37 _3b: thanks for remembering 09:35:39 <_3b> (code isn't particularly efficient, organized, or a good exxmple of opengl usage though) 09:36:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BCF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:01 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.147.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:08 -!- LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:39:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.151] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:41:25 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-149-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:04 foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.128.89] has joined #lisp 09:44:20 -!- cheater79 [~cheater23@ip-80-226-238-47.vodafone-net.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:31 cheater79 [~cheater23@ip-80-226-238-47.vodafone-net.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:47 realitygrill 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[~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:47:54 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 10:48:52 snearch [~snearch@f053010142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:26 -!- alama [~alama@80.187.159.6] has quit [Quit: alama] 10:51:32 pnq [~nick@ACA29545.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:11 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:02:22 a question to people with AllegroCL: if there is a directory with symbolic links in it, does excl.osi:delete-directory-and-files remove the target files of those links? 11:02:58 the documentation does not mention anything about this issue 11:04:53 bindrinkin [~bindrinki@81.198.65.81] has joined #lisp 11:06:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:06:10 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 11:09:37 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.88] has joined #lisp 11:11:32 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.2.83] has joined #lisp 11:16:31 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-246-9.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:49 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-246-9.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:07 alama [~alama@er-145-100-225-181.flexnet2.rug.nl] has joined #lisp 11:17:33 -!- xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:17:53 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:31 jdz: Is that the behaviour you want? 11:18:44 jdz: because if that's what you want, then I'd just call truename on the pathname 11:20:47 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 11:22:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-246-9.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA29545.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:25:57 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:27 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:46 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29:52 -!- alama [~alama@er-145-100-225-181.flexnet2.rug.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 11:31:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.113.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:36:55 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.161.25] has joined #lisp 11:39:26 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:41:24 hello 11:41:54 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-248-163.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 11:42:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:44:10 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:13 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-35-127.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:46:42 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:43 hello all, can someone help me out with type declarations? 11:51:34 mcstar: what's up? 11:51:41 hi 11:52:01 im trying to compile a snippet optimized, and sbcl keeps using the generic function 11:52:37 would you mind if i paste it here? its short 11:52:57 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:09 <_3b> lisppaste: url 11:53:09 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 11:53:16 <_3b> mcstar: paste it there ^ 11:54:12 mcstar pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122155 11:54:33 nice, thx 11:54:41 <_3b> mcstar: what type is (* most-positive-fixnum most-positive-fixnum) ? 11:54:54 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 11:54:55 <_3b> (hint: not a fixnum) 11:55:01 integer? 11:55:06 <_3b> right 11:55:19 <_3b> so to start with, you are lying to the compiler 11:55:35 mcstar: If you want fast arithmetic, use SBCL and use modular 32-bit operations. 11:55:36 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:56:00 throwing fixnum declarations everywhere is not that effective. 11:56:22 <_3b> if you know a more specific range for x and y, use that 11:56:43 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:56:47 im a little lost, cause how can i ever really guarantee that i dont make an overflow if i declared something as a fixnum and later i do basic arithmetic on it? 11:56:57 mcstar: LOGAND 11:57:15 but fixnum is not a good thing to use with logand. 11:57:29 mcstar: What are you really trying to do? 11:57:55 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:58:07 imagine a cellular automaton, and im computing its indices, because i use a 1d array to store the 2d board 11:58:51 <_3b> does each cell have 2^60 possible states? 11:58:59 only 3 11:59:09 -!- bindrinkin [~bindrinki@81.198.65.81] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 11:59:10 <_3b> oops, indices, not values... those are reasonably fixnums 11:59:10 that is declared as '(integer 0 2) 12:00:12 i read that sbcl 2d arrays are slower than 1d arrays, so thats why i want to manually compute the indicies 12:00:34 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:54 <_3b> are you sure array lookups are the bottleneck? 12:01:08 yes 12:01:19 according to the profiler, its one of them 12:02:23 <_3b> can you show more of the real code? 12:02:47 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:02:51 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:01 Xach annotated #122155 "modular 64-bit arithmetic" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122155#1 12:03:08 i could, but i think its pointless, aside from the ca, i want to consider only this problem, to use fast integer arithmetic 12:03:38 <_3b> well, without context it is hard to optimize usefully 12:05:08 <_3b> for example Xach's annotation is probably a fast way to implement that function, but you might be better off just inlining it and not declaring any types in that function 12:05:10 Xach: can you comment on it a little bit? 12:05:39 mcstar: What would you like to know more about? 12:05:46 _3b: i might try inlining 12:05:57 <_3b> since SBCL will be verifying the type declaration, and the (unsigned-byt 64) will still get boxed on return 12:06:25 for example why is logand needed? 12:06:49 to check for overflow? 12:07:04 i see, thats the modular part 12:07:14 <_3b> the LOGAND tells the compiler you don't care about anything beyond the low 64 bits, so it doesn't have to check for overflow 12:07:29 yes i see now 12:07:38 but it feels like some dirty hack 12:07:56 For a dirty hack, see lispworks and its int32 API. 12:08:13 -!- xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:08:15 With SBCL, the compiler is smart enough to make real CL fast. 12:08:17 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 12:08:21 tcr: no, that's exactly the behaviour i do not want, but cl-fad:delete-directory-and-files gives me no choice. but on allegro, it calls allegro-specific function. 12:08:55 <_3b> lying to the compiler is the 'dirty hack' :) 12:09:12 i thought that by declaring it fixnum, it will automatically stay within limits 12:09:13 tcr: there is also sb-ext:delete-directory for sbcl, and i wonder why that is not used in cl-fad 12:09:29 mcstar: That's not how CL works. 12:09:41 than whats the point in using (the type var) construct? 12:09:42 jdz: sb-ext:delete-directory is relatively new. 12:09:55 <_3b> nope, at best it will complain when it goes out of limits, at worst it will break subtly 12:09:57 mcstar: To declare the type of the return value of some form. 12:10:04 mcstar: a declaration is not a coercion. 12:10:16 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:10:42 Xach: instead of logand could use use coercion? 12:11:02 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 12:11:25 <_3b> if the compiler knows to optimize whatever form you use, which it might not 12:11:47 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 12:12:04 <_3b> (you could still use it otherwise, it just wouldn't make things any faster) 12:12:04 so are you saying that with sbcl logand is advised instead of coercion? 12:12:45 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 12:13:11 *_3b* would just dump the whole CA on a gpu actually :p 12:14:06 Xach: well, i still think that the behaviour of cl-fad is wrong. actually it is cl-fad:list-directory which should give the user an option of _not_ getting the truenames. 12:14:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.231.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:14:52 its a toy project, but i will need fast operation on a similar board, so thats why i try to use not generic arithmetic 12:15:04 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.231.63] has joined #lisp 12:16:55 <_3b> well, you could limit yourself to square boards, and then you know X and Y are types that can be multiplied to produce a fixnum 12:16:57 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.88] has joined #lisp 12:17:21 you can always risk with (safety 0) 12:17:31 <_3b> and calling a function just to do 1 multiply seems like a bad idea if you care about the performance of that multiply 12:17:43 not a good advice i assume 12:17:56 its more complex than that, there are if's in there 12:17:57 <_3b> (particularly when using SBCL when it is checking type declarations) 12:18:10 mcstar: the LOGAND isn't "preferred" over implicit type coercion, it's _the_ operation one uses to implement word-sized arithmetic within CL's arbitrary precision arithmetic. As Xach explained, there _is no_ implicit type coercion at all in this sense. 12:19:10 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:19:18 i see, then one last question: can you point me in the direction to some code which is numerically optimized, so that i can study it a little bit? 12:19:50 <_3b> if you want a challenge, you could look at the sbcl specific code in sb-cga 12:20:12 <_3b> (possibly some of the generic code too, i don't remember exactly which code is where) 12:20:58 mcstar: ironclad 12:21:04 mcstar: a shameless plug, but you could try checking out http://t-b-o-g.blogspot.com/ 12:21:27 <_3b> opticl also i think has some interesting optimizations that might apply to the CA stuff 12:21:29 jdz: I can't wait for updates! 12:21:39 Xach: what updates? 12:21:43 jdz: blog updates! 12:22:10 Xach: uhh, blogging is serious business 12:22:14 i cant find sb-cga in my sbcl install 12:22:18 whats that? 12:22:29 mcstar: quicklisp has it 12:22:31 mcstar: a library. 12:22:42 jdz: I can only afford to pay you in adulation. 12:22:46 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:39 ironclad is only familiar to me from The Score, its a security firm 12:23:49 *_3b* should write a new gl shader wrapper so i can release my implementation of that brain CA thing 12:24:21 <_3b> (or else figure out if nvidia opencl drivers are stable enough to do it with opencl yet) 12:24:40 mcstar: this answer might sound familiar to you, but quicklisp has ironclad 12:24:46 :) 12:24:57 i actually have not dug into the problem, but cl-opengl is refusing to open a window for me (probably some Ubuntu 11.04 / freeglut problem) 12:25:09 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.161.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:25:15 -!- no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [] 12:25:40 jdz: actually i was reading that blog, the 3 parter on CA optimization 12:25:55 and i was wondering why is his code way faster than mine 12:26:36 thank you guys, i will educate myself 12:27:04 i'm trying to make an emacs command to start an inferior lisp, then slime-eval something inside it as soon as its up. how can i wait for the repl to come up before this happens? 12:27:25 wivlaro: why are you trying to do that? 12:28:02 i just want to make a command that starts up an inferior lisp, loads some systems and saves a core file out 12:28:23 wivlaro: I don't recommend doing that with slime. 12:28:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BCF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:41 today is the day of shameless plugs 12:28:43 hm. ok 12:28:55 i guess i'll just do it from bash then 12:28:56 so Xach, go ahead, do what has to be done :) 12:29:19 wivlaro: It would be better to write a .lisp file that loads everything you want (including swank), and then put save-lisp-and-die at the end of it, then use sbcl --load file.lisp 12:29:24 jdz: buildapp doesn't do cores, only executables 12:29:46 Xach: probably that's the next step of what wivlaro will want :) 12:29:59 *Xach* ponders buildcore 12:30:13 well, anyway, buildapp would be a good starting point to look at even if the executable is not what is needed 12:30:31 Xach: quore? 12:30:38 Xach: in which way is saving an executable core instead of "just a core" a limitation? 12:31:19 lichtblau: I had the impression that an executable core isn't something you can pass to sbcl --core. Is that mistaken? 12:32:05 If it is, there also isn't an easy way to opt out of specifying an entry function, using the normal SBCL default. 12:32:05 erm, right. Nevermind me, I shouldn't chat and gdb at the same time. 12:32:42 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 12:34:56 Seems like it wouldn't hurt to support that mode of operation though. 12:37:30 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:39:40 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:41:14 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 12:43:10 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:44:08 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:22 nope. might not be too hard either. 12:44:30 *Xach* hopes to do some buildapp updates this weekend 12:44:41 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45:17 is there a Zmacs port for linux ? 12:46:09 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:36 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC231FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:42 lichtblau: oh, do you mean on the sbcl side? 12:56:30 alama [~alama@er-145-100-225-181.flexnet2.rug.nl] has joined #lisp 12:56:31 -!- alama [~alama@er-145-100-225-181.flexnet2.rug.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:32 sellout- [~Adium@64.134.67.155] has joined #lisp 12:56:49 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:47 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 13:00:01 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:30 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BCF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:39 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:04:53 yeah, on the SBCL side 13:05:35 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 slash_ [~unknown@pD955D698.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:05 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:30 serpentologist [~sanya@95-26-124-87.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:09:54 -!- serpentologist [~sanya@95-26-124-87.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 13:11:03 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:12:19 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:14:42 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:16:02 bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.18.32] has joined #lisp 13:18:17 urandom__ [~user@p548A66E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:26 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:52 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955D698.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:09 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:12 slash_ [~unknown@pD955D698.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:22 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:26:43 alama [~alama@er-145-100-225-181.flexnet2.rug.nl] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:32:26 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:46 -!- alama [~alama@er-145-100-225-181.flexnet2.rug.nl] has quit [Quit: alama] 13:34:59 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:35:19 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 13:37:47 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:36 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053010142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:39:39 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.2.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:25 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:42:39 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:44:48 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:55:48 as lisp codes are data by themselves so there's no need to serial/deserialization as in Java, right ? 13:56:06 Yes. 13:56:23 that's really nice feature. 13:58:03 NightHack: this describes it nicely (I particularly like the first para) http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node187.html#SECTION002610000000000000000 13:58:44 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00:42 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:01:12 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 14:03:16 splittist: thanks for suggestion. great article for me. 14:03:37 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:54 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 14:06:44 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756042.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:05 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:21 -!- loke [~elias@bb121-6-220-10.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:30 loke [~elias@bb121-6-175-134.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:10:34 I guess we can scrap cl-store. 14:12:23 pjb: hi 14:12:25 pjb: how are you ? 14:12:36 tmh [6c491df1@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:12:39 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:42 Greetings lispers. 14:14:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:15 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:58 pjb: are there pattern matching libs ready? 14:17:55 Is there an alive actors implementation? Everything seems to point at erlang-in-lisp which started and ended with GSOC 2008. 14:18:25 sykopomp: why ? 14:19:54 fe[nl]ix: sykopomp is commenting on the Night-Hacks/pjb exchange above (and perhaps feels it was a bit sweeping...) 14:20:36 fe[nl]ix: the implication that lisp doesn't need serialization. 14:21:32 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:58 Night-Hacks: Some data types don't have a READable representation. The ones I can remember are objects and hash-tables. 14:22:12 and closures. 14:23:31 I wonder. Should structs count as readable? 14:23:43 -!- Sgeo__ [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:24:54 somnium [~user@adsl-184-42-13-167.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:56 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:25:11 sykopomp: Why not? http://sprunge.us/DWHZ 14:25:49 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:27:42 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 sykopomp: yes. 14:29:03 As long as :print-function is not supplied and the structure has a standard constructor macro 14:29:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29:19 nikodemus: here? 14:29:31 lichtblau yes 14:29:50 naryl: Ok ... 14:31:09 I'm currently reading through Anton's LLP64 support changes. I notice that you haven't commented on sbcl-devel on his typedef naming convention question. 14:31:11 Do you have any advice on that? 14:31:26 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 14:32:00 i thought your comments were mostly spot on 14:32:12 the only addition i would make concerns lispobj 14:32:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:42 while it is true that it is currently used for untagged things as well, i think that's unfortunate and makes the code harder to read than it needs to be 14:33:54 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable041.134-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:35:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:35:53 -!- sellout- [~Adium@64.134.67.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:08 OK, if lispobj is to be reserved for things with a lowtag, let's forged about lispobj for now. 14:40:15 So we need [us]word_t and/or [u]intptr_t. Anton is currently using both. 14:40:32 Would you prefer use of the former, the latter, or of both? 14:40:43 And under which actual names? 14:42:56 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:44:09 I guess I'll just stick to Anton's conventions unless someone complains, and then we can still do a quick search&replace. 14:44:45 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:05 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 14:47:43 Posterdati: use http://cliki.net/ There are several pattern matching libraries. 14:47:58 pjb: I'm looking at it now! :) thanks 14:48:17 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:48:43 pjb: I've to parse gschem .sch files and convert them to my custom netlist format 14:48:44 lichtblau: i'd need to go reread it to say more -- but aside from that lispobj thing, i remember thinking "what david says sounds just about right" when i read it 14:49:29 Posterdati: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-match/doc/clmatch.htm 14:49:30 splittist: my "yes" was a pedagogical license. 14:50:19 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:37 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.125.135] has joined #lisp 14:53:12 redline6561: thanks 14:58:08 System "cl-match" not found 14:58:08 [Condition of type QUICKLISP-CLIENT::SYSTEM-NOT-FOUND] 14:58:22 Oh no! A system not yet in quicklisp! 14:58:26 *Xach* fixes 14:58:31 :) 14:58:59 Who is responsible for entering systems in Quicklisp? (maintainers, Xach, aliens)? 14:59:08 tmh: Me. 14:59:19 tmh: I rely on other people to tell me about 'em, mostly. 14:59:32 pjb: yes, I understand, and agree that it was an appropriate response. 14:59:59 Xach: is pjb involved? 15:00:07 Xach: Okay, I still haven't gotten around to using Quicklisp. When I do, I may start making requests for entries. Is lisp-unit recognized by Quicklisp? 15:00:28 tmh: Yes. the current list is available at http://quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html 15:00:30 Calyce [~julie@132.72-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:00:39 tmh: I expect there will be an update to that list in the next few days. 15:00:58 Xach: Okay. I think that is the only thing I produce that people actually use. 15:01:31 Xach: why do cl-cairo2, cl-cairo2-gtk2, cl-cairo2-xlib an a-cl-cairo2-loader turn up in a sys-apr query, but not cl-cairo2-quartz and cl-cairo2-win32? What obviousness am I missing? 15:02:00 quartz and win32 aren't portable? 15:02:01 splittist: I couldn't get them to build. 15:02:08 ah 15:02:13 Xach: OK 15:02:18 My build method is fairly primitive and that is a failure mode. 15:02:28 I'd like not to exlclude libraries like that sometime in the future. 15:03:26 Arubis [~Arubis@41.223.214.26] has joined #lisp 15:03:26 tmh: downloaded by quicklisp users 84 times in the past month! 15:03:55 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.212.125.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:01 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.125.135] has joined #lisp 15:04:13 Xach: Sweet, thanks. 15:04:19 (most popular download: alexandria, with ~1400) 15:05:33 Xach: you might want to change the references to ASDF-Install in the xachware project pages to QL 15:05:35 That's awesome, I have been making a conscious effort over the past year to check and use alexandria before I write some crap function. 15:05:54 splittist: too busy updating ql! 15:06:47 Fair enough! Has it taken up more of your life than you imagined/hoped/feared? 15:07:28 It's been easier to update the libraries than I expected, but I haven't had the time to spend on higher-level issues that I want. 15:07:36 just checked quicklisp. it's looks really nice! 15:07:44 Thanks. 15:08:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:09:05 -!- Arubis [~Arubis@41.223.214.26] has quit [Quit: Got to keep moving!!] 15:09:30 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:09:47 xan_ [~xan@162.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 sweet I didn't emacs will close all your parentheses for ya 15:10:02 err I mean slime 15:10:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.151] has joined #lisp 15:10:19 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:10:21 TDT [~user@173-23-13-45.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:35 paredit will close them before you even fill them in. 15:10:57 paredit ? 15:11:03 can you use that with slime 15:11:10 It works across emacs 15:11:15 The mystic on the mountain will show himself when the parentheses close before you know you need them. 15:11:31 nixfreak_: paredit is a program for emacs. 15:11:34 It (or a facsimile) even works on vim (: 15:11:57 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ParEdit in case google is broken 15:12:04 I may be a little late to the party, but has anyone seen the new lisp Pharen ? 15:12:04 does it work only if your in an emacs buffer or slime also 15:12:20 http://scriptor.github.com/pharen/index.html 15:13:17 as if sexps are a way to fix the horrors of PHP. 15:13:45 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:48 Rationale 3 shows a lively self-knowledge (: 15:15:20 sykopomp: I'm please to see the number of lisp dialects expanding. Clojure, pharen, etc. Embrace diversity. :-) 15:15:44 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:42 Are Common Lispers the fascists of lisp land? :) 15:16:49 I've actually done something similar for an atrocious scripting language for a commercial finite element analysis program. It's very nice insulating myself in lisp from the language. 15:17:34 Cobolisp! (let (x be (the sum of 2 and (the product of 5 and 7))) ...) 15:17:37 sykopomp: I think it's more we're smug practitioners, schemers are the smug ivory tower purists. 15:17:42 pyrony [~epic@173-127-206-34.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:04 tmh: so... low-brow fascists? 15:18:16 fratschists? 15:18:37 I don't see what fascism has to do with it 15:18:53 Yeah, I'm a little lost by the fascist part as well. 15:19:08 Lisp AI will rule the state 15:19:35 Anyway, it's good to see another lisp on the planet. 15:19:56 purists, persecution of other dialects, standards-based authoritarians? :-o 15:20:52 Bah, we don't persecute other dialects, we just smugly respond, "You can do that in CL." 15:20:53 *dlowe* directs sykopomp to look at the fascism wikipedia article 15:21:26 I dunno. I'm started to have featherweight thread jealousy 15:21:29 whats the command for paredit 15:21:37 M-x paredit-mode 15:21:49 Or, better yet, "Such and such did that in CL 12 years ago, it wasn't a complete implementation, but demonstrated the fundamentals" 15:21:57 nixfreak_: http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.el has directions 15:22:16 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22:42 pnq [~nick@ACA43713.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:51 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 15:23:17 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.121] has joined #lisp 15:23:22 thx 15:24:07 Xach: May I suggest to add this project to quicklisp repository: https://github.com/naveensundarg/Common-Lisp-Actors 15:24:09 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:28 I just compiled it and run tests from the README. Seems to work. 15:25:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-20.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:04 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:27:22 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:27:56 pdlogan [~patrick@174.25.37.137] has joined #lisp 15:30:56 naryl: can i trouble you to add a github issue to https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues? it's how i keep track. 15:31:26 ok 15:31:29 naryl: actually, don't 15:32:08 i already track it. let me see why it doesn't build. 15:33:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:21 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 15:33:42 Xach: have you seen this article: Efficient Hardware Arithmetic in Common Lisp by Dejneka and Rhodes? 15:34:04 -!- Krystof [~csr21@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:34:25 mcstar: A while ago. 15:34:50 naryl: it builds and will be in the next release. 15:34:55 im just wondering if you know this techiques from the article, or from somewhere else 15:35:02 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:09 these 15:36:03 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:05 mcstar: Rhodes told me about them on irc. 15:36:11 Reinforced by other SBCL nerds. 15:37:08 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable041.134-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 15:37:45 You could also read the manual, in the "Efficiency" section . 15:37:48 -!- splittist [~splittist@169-200.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:39:30 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.45] has joined #lisp 15:39:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:08 i will 15:40:23 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:43:36 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 15:44:58 obbele [~johan@161.103.84.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 -!- pyrony [~epic@173-127-206-34.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:55 ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.119.228] has joined #lisp 15:48:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:48:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.231.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:55 -!- billitch_ [~billitch@did75-20-88-183-33-86.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:43 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:50:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:43 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:50:44 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-205-152.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [SeaMonkey 2.2a1pre/20110519221225]] 15:50:57 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:26 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.119.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:57:36 I'm looking for a PDF version of `practical common lisp` for my ebook reader but couldn't find anything useful from Google, do you have pdf of PCL? (since it's a free book, I think it's not a problem to ask) 15:58:06 you can purchase a copy 15:58:18 it's only free for web 15:58:23 access 15:58:54 afaik 15:59:09 that sucks for people who bought the book version and now see there's an ebook version :/ 15:59:10 bsod1: Keep googling. There's one floating around. 15:59:32 how many pages is the book ? 15:59:37 i saw just a few 15:59:57 maybe it's just a subset of the total i saw 16:01:03 pnq1 [~nick@172.129.196.28] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA43713.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:01:29 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 16:03:11 http://www.maht0x0r.net/library/computing/practicalcommonlisp.pdf 16:04:12 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.166.30.216] has joined #lisp 16:05:11 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:38 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:15 HG` [~HG@p5DC04DAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:19 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.166.30.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:10:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.30.216] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:12:34 Xach: is there a function to search packages in quicklisp starting from a description string? 16:13:33 (system-apropos "web") 16:13:44 well, (ql:system-apropos ...) 16:14:12 thanks 16:14:24 Fade: is it about installed packages? 16:14:58 cl-actors is the perfect example of a library inspired by LOL. 16:15:15 Fade: ok 16:15:25 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:34 CL-USER> (ql:system-apropos "pattern") 16:15:34 NIL 16:15:57 it searches packages in the registered dist 16:16:29 naryl -- ? 16:16:47 Fade: naryl? 16:17:16 Posterdati: no. 16:17:29 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 16:17:43 leyyer_s` [~user@118.116.94.121] has joined #lisp 16:17:56 Xach: what is the procedure to register a package in quicklisp repository? 16:18:03 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:43 Posterdati: see the faq 16:18:55 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.166.30.243] has joined #lisp 16:19:45 Xach: ok, clear! Thanks 16:20:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.30.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:21:19 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.212.125.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:19 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 16:22:28 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-79.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:30:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-20.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:32:44 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:33:01 billitch [~billitch@did75-20-88-183-33-86.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-246-9.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:38 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:37:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:38:15 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 16:38:58 is there something similar to MVC web frameworks (symfony, rails) for cl? 16:39:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:15 wccoder: have a look at Uncommon Web. 16:41:00 will do, thanks pjb 16:41:41 -!- cheater79 [~cheater23@ip-80-226-238-47.vodafone-net.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:13 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 16:43:29 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:13 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 16:45:16 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 16:45:24 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 16:45:26 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 16:46:18 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:46:18 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:18 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 alama [~alama@80.187.220.90] has joined #lisp 16:48:11 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:42 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:50:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@162.60.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:19 Younder [~john@41.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:51:51 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:21 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-pzfargrzlxflqrps] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:26 pavkac [~pavkac@204.186.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:52:28 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:52:55 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:47 -!- alama [~alama@80.187.220.90] has quit [Quit: alama] 16:56:44 alama [~alama@80.187.220.90] has joined #lisp 16:58:22 xan_ [~xan@199.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:01:04 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-xywomcnubtvucewm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-20.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:57 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:03:51 centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:20 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:30 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 17:04:53 hi anyone know how to set your CL command in slime once installed with el-get? I'm supposing I need an :after for it in my el-get-sources, but no idea what should go in it :D 17:05:18 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-10-76.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 17:05:35 M-x slime gives me "apply: Searching for program: No such file or directory, lisp" i'm guessing I need to tell it to run sbcl instead, but not sure how 17:05:47 centipedefarmer: I don't know if anyone here installed slime via el-get. the easiest method to install slime (afaict) is to install it via quicklisp & the slime-quicklisp-helper 17:05:47 centipedefarmer: one simple way is to set inferior-lisp-program 17:06:03 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:06:05 You still have to set the path to your CL with quicklisp-slime-helper. 17:06:11 ok (: 17:06:11 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:06:12 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:47 as long as it's just the path to the binary that's missing, that's cool. no need to switch to quicklisp-slime-helper. 17:08:38 -!- leyyer_s` [~user@118.116.94.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:04 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:09:32 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955B791.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:53 hmm... ok setting inferior-lisp-program didn't seem to do it :/ 17:10:02 centipedefarmer: what happened when you tried? 17:10:08 -!- xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:19 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:27 don't recall, restarted emacs afterwards... will try again 17:10:42 We can get through this together. 17:10:48 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:11:19 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:19 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:11:20 oh dip, it worked this time. I probably fatfingered something before 17:11:27 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 17:11:43 -!- xristos is now known as Guest5954 17:12:04 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955D698.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:12:18 -!- slash_1 is now known as slash_ 17:12:30 is there a lot of setup to get a nice slime setup going these days? i've been away for a couple years but I seem to remember having to put a lot of stuff in my init.el 17:12:52 -!- alama [~alama@80.187.220.90] has quit [Quit: alama] 17:13:21 well, one thing about pharen, it takes the punctuation out of php. 17:15:20 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:39 -!- centipedefarmer [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:15:50 centipedefarmer: quicklisp+quicklisp-slime-helper takes about 90 seconds. 17:16:10 noooo 17:18:57 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:18:59 *Xach* remembers nothingHappens from those years ago 17:25:53 anyone know when Harag usually shows up? 17:26:51 90 minutes 17:26:54 mgampkay [~mgampkay@183.3.173.207] has joined #lisp 17:27:03 -!- mgampkay [~mgampkay@183.3.173.207] has left #lisp 17:27:04 nixfreak1 [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:25 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:27:59 Xach: have you done literate programming with lisp? 17:28:03 madnificent: no. 17:28:14 *stassats* does illiterate programming with lisp 17:28:22 ah, then I should talk to peter seibel, I guess 17:28:44 he'll tell you the same thing: "Zach hasn't done any literate programming with lisp." 17:28:46 stassats: read the paper and made the pun of Knuth? Or am I missing something? 17:28:50 Xach: :P 17:29:12 Xach: then I'll try to convince him he's wrong 17:29:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@199.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:51 madnificent: no, that's just what i do, i don't use literate programming, so i guess that means that my programming is illiterate 17:34:49 *madnificent* was looking for best practices 17:35:06 m_p_g [~m_p_g@dslb-094-223-211-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 Try selling literate programming to your boss. 17:37:26 symbole: I don't see why not, but you probably have one reason or another 17:37:27 heh 17:37:49 sacho [~sacho@95-42-72-242.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:39:18 madnificent: Market forces will beat up literate programming mercilessly. 17:39:30 symbole: have you ever used it? 17:39:50 madnificent: No. 17:40:03 right, then we don't have much to talk about :) carry on please 17:40:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 17:41:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:35 cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.45] has joined #lisp 17:42:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:55 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:42:59 alama [~alama@88.128.84.177] has joined #lisp 17:43:04 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 IIRC the current parenscript doesn't work with TPD2 ... does someone know of a working fork? 17:46:11 Xach: did himself ever get back to you about that? 17:46:11 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:14 sykopomp: no. 17:46:21 "himself"? 17:46:30 I don't remember his name! 17:47:23 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:47:40 john.freml.in 17:49:39 flip214: If you feel lucky, I quick-patched tpd2 to work with the latest parenscript. You could apply the changes yourself locally, but I don't know if everything else will work. 17:50:06 sykopomp: thanks ... on github? 17:50:26 although, TBH, I'm not sure when I'll be ready to test ... better just push them to Xach for quicklisp 17:50:46 yeah, just check my teepeedee2 fork. It's a pretty simple patch. 17:50:55 sykopomp: I think John Fremlin would welcome those patches... or at least, you have a chance that he will 17:51:05 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:17 He's already been contacted. 17:51:31 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 17:51:37 great! 17:52:41 madnificent: and ignored the contact. 17:53:01 -!- alama [~alama@88.128.84.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53:23 sykopomp: fork, call it UQE, accept patches! 17:53:45 I'd like to efficiently check when some data value gets changed. 17:53:50 Xach: c|mell didn't respond to sykopomp's request? I know he didn't want to move with the new parenscript, as you asked (IIRC) 17:54:29 Is there some way to tell the gc to keep something at a fixed address, to make the page readonly, and run a closure when a write request triggers? 17:54:35 madnificent: I pointed out sykopomp's small patch and never got a response. 17:55:03 I'll ask him as well, if I ever see him online again 17:55:34 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:34 should I send him an email? 17:56:45 I don't think that would hurt the situation. 17:56:53 Well, lets try 17:57:41 but perhaps it's much easier to just fork 17:57:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:58:29 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:31 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:41 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 amb007 [~a_bakic@240.29.195.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:58 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-35-127.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:06:34 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-72-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06:35 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:15 add^_ [~add^_^@h153n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:35 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 18:09:08 someone wants to sponsor me making a next-gen lisp-machine? just give me 600 per month for housing and food and I will work full time on it and release everything under public domain ;) 18:09:26 I'll need to see examples of your work, first. 18:10:22 kai__ [~kai@e179023246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:35 -!- kai__ is now known as wetnosed 18:10:49 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:57 you can, well i wrote an pseudo-lisp interpreter in lua, that doesnt really qualify me, does it? 18:11:58 -!- pavkac [~pavkac@204.186.broadband3.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:11 No. 18:12:51 wetnosed_ [~kai@e179022116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:40 well i wasnt serious about it, i dont expect someone to sponsor me but it was worth a try ;) 18:13:57 that's a pretty low price. 18:14:05 Try on comp.lang.lisp. There is more than one rich moron there. 18:14:08 but then, I suppose results aren't guaranteed. 18:14:12 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:43 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179023246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:51 it is less then the money you get from welfare here in Germany, antifuchs 18:15:19 I know. you probably want to crank that price up if you intend to pay taxes and for insurance, too. 18:17:18 oh taxes, i dont really know how to handle this best, maybe apply to some university so that i still get .. child money and just dont go 18:18:34 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:18:56 man doing what i love to do full time would be so awesome 18:19:11 or you could start pricing your work at a value that lets you live sensibly and offer it to people (: 18:19:16 they just might pay for it! 18:20:22 Time for my 5-yearly request: SBCL win32 threads? haha 18:20:37 Modius: there's a pretty stable branch out there. 18:20:38 why would anyone pay anything for me doing a nonsensical project? 18:20:39 Modius: you can go with the fork for now. 18:20:53 urandom__: try a sensical one that is interesting to you? 18:20:56 Modius: some people are working on folding it back in the mainline 18:21:06 phuong: Okay, I interpreted the yellow to mean port in progress that it wasn't done. Congrats to all involved. 18:21:38 Modius: you're not making much sense. 18:21:51 It's not done. I don't think anything about SBCL is done. 18:22:08 urandom__: Oh, i never stop being amazed at what people will pay money for 18:22:28 antifuchs: programming is more like art and science for me not for making projects that can generate some money (which are sadly mostly boring) 18:22:43 Modius: here's the fork page: http://dmitryvk.github.com/sbcl-win32-threads/ 18:23:39 urandom__: the last time I got paid for boring work was an internship I did at 19. you really don't have to punish yourself in order to make money (: 18:24:14 antifuchs: what kind of work have you been doing since then? 18:24:44 full time souping! (every fifth animated gif is a paid marketing viral video) 18:24:55 started out sysadminning for an independent ISP, then switched to consulting on programming projects, then programming at startups 18:24:59 hahaha 18:25:09 xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:28 antifuchs: lisp programming? 18:25:32 indeed! 18:25:36 great :) 18:25:36 there was some ruby in between 18:25:51 how did you get a lisp programming job? 18:26:03 just kept hacking on stuff until somebody offered (: 18:26:22 hanging out online and doing things people find useful is incredibly helpful (: 18:27:17 antifuchs: Do you work for ITA? 18:27:40 symbole: nope, but I consulted for them onc 18:27:40 e 18:27:49 I'm at franz right now. 18:27:57 dream job 18:28:17 yeah i should do more projects i can show people, i do most stuff just for me and mostly for learning purpose 18:28:32 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.148.61] has joined #lisp 18:28:46 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:30:27 nothingHappens [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:37 -!- nothingHappens [~nothingHa@173-29-195-221.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 18:31:36 antifuchs: did you look at my profile in linkedin, perhaps? 18:32:54 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.148.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:46 Just asking, because you're from Austria, and we've already met IIRC 18:33:57 antifuchs: Is Franz doing anything with Clojure? 18:34:03 urandom__: you should write a global symbol database thing for me 18:34:13 urandom__: you can also just look for PHP gigs and use http://scriptor.github.com/pharen/ 18:34:13 :P 18:34:20 symbole: we have a clojure client to allegrograph 18:34:26 xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:38 symbole: that's pretty much all we do in clj right now 18:34:44 antifuchs: well there's Ruby clients, etc as well, no? 18:34:49 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 18:34:50 yeah 18:34:50 or do you mean Franz built the clj one 18:35:03 a "global symbol database thing", what is it for? 18:35:08 flip214: could be! I'll check linkedin again (: 18:35:27 urandom__: answering questions like "What do I need to load to get a WITH-GENSYMS macro?" 18:35:29 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35:32 I'm pretty sure - I think at a YAPC, perhaps some more times 18:35:42 The market value/what people expect to pay for dev tools approaches zero, it's impressive to make money at it. 18:36:14 oh my, very likely (: 18:36:16 really? 18:36:33 Fah [~Fah@paranoia.neverlight.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:02 -!- Legooolas [~Legooolas@2001:838:320::1] has quit [Quit: bam] 18:37:07 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/productID.216633300?wt.mc_id=vssitebuy 18:37:08 felideon yeah i have already planed on looking at pharen, though i am really happy with squeak/seaside if i have to do web related stuff (i dont really like web stuff) 18:38:01 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-25-209.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:38:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-79.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:38:35 antifuchs: if you know somebody that is happy to give me money for preaching lisp, just tell me 18:38:48 will do ((: 18:38:48 although that had better be mostly local because of family 18:39:44 flip214: You can be a preacher on the internets! 18:39:58 drdo: I fear that's not paid 18:40:06 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:40:22 antifuchs: do you live in Oakland? 18:40:30 yes! 18:40:55 there is already paul graham, the internet preacher :P 18:41:10 rme [~rme@50.43.156.6] has joined #lisp 18:41:52 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-24-8.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:11 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 18:42:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 18:42:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:42:20 felideon: why do you ask? (: 18:43:02 antifuchs: was just curious if you worked there physically or remotely :) 18:43:33 haha, no, physically (: 18:43:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-25-209.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 18:44:30 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:44:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-193-152-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:45:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:18 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 urandom__: have you tried Uncommon Web? 18:49:24 when we are reading this => (:TITLE "Roses" :ARTIST "Kathy Mattea" :RATING 9 :RIPPED T)) 18:49:37 from a file, by READ 18:50:05 reader converts it to lisp data structure's for e.g list here ? 18:50:11 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.115.94] has joined #lisp 18:50:39 no, because there's a ")" too much ... but else you'd get a list, right 18:51:00 HG`` [~HG@p579F7209.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 sorry that's wrong 18:51:15 felideon not yet 18:52:13 but how it would do that ?! i mean i haven't wrote '(a b c d) 18:53:11 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:16 well, the reader just returns data structures ... the "Eval" in REPL looks whether it's valid lisp code 18:54:16 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04DAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:54:58 -!- Calyce [~julie@132.72-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:10 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.115.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:55:48 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-72-242.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:56:17 flip214: but (( it's not list)) in REPL ! 18:56:32 sorry, I lost you here. 18:56:49 The reader gets a string - "(1 2 3)" - and returns a (list 1 2 3). 18:56:57 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 18:57:08 That happens the same from your input, as from a file. 18:57:40 but if you type, there's another thing - after the Reader comes the Eval, and the Print, in a Loop (=REPL) 18:57:41 but as a writer file i say '(a b c) not ((a b c )) 18:58:15 can you paste? I lost you. 18:58:43 flip214: paste what ? 18:58:51 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.6] has left #lisp 19:01:32 the file you're reading via READ 19:01:50 does that just have (:title ...) as data? then you should get a simple list as result 19:02:49 ((:TITLE "Heavens door" :ARTIST "Bob Dylan" :RATING 10 :RIPPED T)) 19:03:23 well, of course you'll get a list in a list - you've got 2 "(" at the beginning 19:03:36 so, what's your question again? 19:04:05 i mean we've two way for defining list's 19:04:11 Night-Hacks: more than two. 19:04:19 '(a b) and (list a b ) 19:04:52 Xach: (( )) is one of them also ? 19:04:57 Night-Hacks: the first would be read by the reader as (QUOTE (A B)), the second as (LIST A B). The first is a list of two elements, a symbol and a list, the second is a list of three elements, three symbols. 19:05:19 Night-Hacks: When evaluated by EVAL, they mean very different things, too. 19:05:28 and ((1 2 3)) is a list with one element, which is a list with 3 elements 19:05:31 Night-Hacks: it's important to distinguish between what the reader does and what the evaluator does. 19:06:27 got it, so (( )) has a another meaning for reader but just an error for eval. 19:06:38 an* 19:07:06 <_3b> ( is what has meaning to the reader, specifically, 'read things until ) 19:07:29 Night-Hacks: not necessarily an error. 19:07:31 <_3b> at which point it returns the things in a list 19:08:11 <_3b> one of the things it can read is more lists, which is what you get with (()) 19:09:35 ok, i thought , reader = eval. that made me confused 19:09:53 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-243-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:00 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-37-254.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:10:18 <_3b> nope, separate steps 19:10:29 The reader is a function from strings to data, and eval is a function from data to data. 19:10:53 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F5F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:23 data to behavior, let's say 19:11:50 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:11:55 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:11:57 you can take away my side-effects when you pry them from my cold, dead SETQ 19:12:23 dlowe: behavior ? 19:12:29 Oh, yes. Sorry, been reading too many old papers 19:12:34 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0042.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:40 dlowe: see what you've started!!¡ :-) 19:12:41 Some behavior of eval, side effects, isn't a part of the data returned. 19:12:42 side effects are a deadly sin! 19:12:54 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7F5F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:13:00 drdo: I'm not planning to be part of the Elect 19:13:18 dlowe: You will rot in hell for all eternity! 19:13:29 For example, (eval '(print "hello world")) and (eval "hello world") both return "hello world", but have different effects. 19:13:44 drdo: I guess this rotting effect is asymptotic 19:13:48 dlowe: you'll know for sure tomorrow 19:14:15 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F5F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:34 Side effects keep people honest. Don't think you're just going to get a result, something else might happen. Keeps people from getting complacent. 19:14:35 wasn't meant "rotating", like spinning in the grave? 19:14:38 dlowe: No, you really rot, they have awesome technology down there, they can regenerate your body everyday so you can rot once more 19:14:57 drdo: ah, the Prometheus effect 19:15:05 sacho [~sacho@90.154.196.144] has joined #lisp 19:15:18 the what? 19:15:34 drdo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus 19:15:54 oh i see 19:16:19 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:25 Well, imagine that, but way worse, getting your liver eaten is a walk in the park compared to what will happen if you use side effects 19:18:30 Well, if I understand you correctly - side effects are a sisyphos work ... the more you do, the more you'll have to do 19:18:46 or is that the stable of Augean? 19:19:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:21:48 francogrex [~user@109.130.204.101] has joined #lisp 19:23:40 thanks anyway, i think i must go before being cursed !! 19:24:28 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 19:24:33 hydra cranectomies. 19:28:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:37 felideon, only thing proved tomorrow is that it either is the beginning of end or there is at least one crazy man in the USA 19:35:17 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:39:38 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 19:43:05 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:46:53 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 19:48:18 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174.25.37.137] has left #lisp 19:48:36 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 19:51:43 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 19:51:53 Can someone point me in the right direction on how I would print a PDF file from lisp in Windows? 19:51:56 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.204.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.196.144] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:53:25 Guthur: I think there's enough proof he's a nutjob :) 19:53:50 and he already predicted 1994 would be the rapture. He's already got a negative track record going 19:53:59 Qworkescence: I'd suggest installing ghostscript, and just calling that. 19:54:01 Phoodus: oh it's the same guy? 19:54:07 I believe it is 19:54:23 a friend told me the same thing but wasn't sure 19:54:42 a quick google seems to reconfirm 19:55:07 yep same guy 19:55:20 he apparently has an excuse for then 19:56:49 -!- usm [~anthony@114.31.211.33] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:57:50 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:57:52 "oops, off by one" 19:58:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:58:46 Tomorrow at 6pm, all my () will become {} and []. 19:59:43 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 19:59:47 and READ will return NIL, and even (LOOP) will stop!! 19:59:49 sykopomp: Will you still be here for that is the question. 20:00:02 sacho [~sacho@90.154.196.144] has joined #lisp 20:01:20 -!- nixfreak1 [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:01:23 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:01:28 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.196.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:50 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.196.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:51 anus [~anthony@114.31.211.33] has joined #lisp 20:06:29 -!- anus is now known as usm 20:08:18 pnq [~nick@AC814881.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:34 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:10:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:33 bsod1_ [~sinan@31.141.54.201] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.18.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:14:05 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:33 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:16:26 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:18:34 lichtblau pasted "SBCL x86 FS segment usage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122166 20:19:34 for nobody in particular, here my attempt to document what I just learned about %fs, TEB, TLS, (union per_thread_data), etc. 20:20:04 (Should probably go into the internals manual once the code agrees with the picture.) 20:23:30 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:23:41 -!- Plazma [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has left #lisp 20:26:11 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:23 lichtblau: that looks like it captures an awful lot of information 20:29:28 *splittist* admires it as art 20:32:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:33:36 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:18 hmmm...with clsql, does anyone know if there's a way to toggle the output of what sql queries it's trying to do? 20:36:37 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 20:37:04 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:15 hah end of the world talk, been going off on that a bit today here too. I love these things. 20:38:09 TDT: Australia has sunk! 20:38:35 good riddance to those spiders! 20:38:51 Spee-yiders! 20:39:10 and snakes, and crocodiles, and platypi 20:39:38 and probably an entire superorder of biology full of deadly bity gnawy stingy poisony strangly tramply creatures 20:39:46 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 20:39:48 and the kangaroos? I bet they can swim...they are evil anyways 20:40:00 *lichtblau* read that as "Stop The World" talk 20:41:15 to collect garbage? 20:42:45 At precisely 4:42 EST, the first GC was made. 20:44:12 I messed up my own joke. Noooooo! 20:45:05 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 symbole: did you mean the last gc? 20:45:38 on slashdot there's talk about having the "last post" 20:46:20 "...GC joke was made" was my intention. 20:49:04 apparently the end of the world won't happen until october, tomorrow is just judgement day 20:49:21 and a giant earthquake apparently 20:49:32 wccoder: The irony is that according to the bible, judgement day isn't until _after_ the thousand years' state. 20:49:33 worldwide 20:50:00 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 20:50:16 IOW: Not only are those idiots loony, they don't even manage to get their terminology in order. 20:50:17 wccoder: Exactly, meaning in iowa...my little house is going to shaaake...I want to get popcorn and wait outside. He never did say what time zone this was in 20:50:25 Tomorrow is the "mark" pass. 20:50:41 Odin-: i've really got no idea... i'm an atheist. just repeated what i heard on the news here 20:51:00 lol 20:51:15 -!- bsod1_ [~sinan@31.141.54.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:22 and the sweep isn't until october right? ;) 20:51:23 'Yesterday I couldn't even spell jernelist, now I are one' 20:51:35 wccoder: Yah, the news have what those nutters are saying right. It just fails to match up with biblical prophecy in elementary ways, which makes this even funnier IMO. 20:52:27 "Not only are you wrong in terms of reality, you don't even make sense from your own frame of reference. How sad can you get, srsly?" 20:52:56 Odin-: Actually, they're being consistent witht the Bible in that it also fails to matchup prophecies in elementary ways. 20:52:56 this whole EOTW stuff is boring 20:53:38 could the discussion be moved to some more appropriate place? 20:53:55 ./join #EOTW, right? heh 20:53:58 what is the appropriate place for the end of the world ? :) 20:54:05 orivej [~orivej@host-51-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 20:54:14 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:54:18 symbole: That's mostly if you take the new testament as the fulfilment of old testament prophecies ... which is generally claimed, but doesn't really make that much sense. But, yeah, fair point. :p 20:54:19 ~% 20:54:43 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F7209.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG``] 20:54:52 So what should I be using if I want to put pretty text on a canvas and capture key events in a cross platform way 20:55:18 LTK? 20:55:32 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:55:33 http://www.cliki.net/Ltk 20:55:37 So...with the question I had about clsql...to kinda bring it back to on topic...any ideas on how to enable some sorta sql debugging option? 20:55:52 ChibaPet: doesn't pass the pretty text, I don't think 20:55:55 i would use commonqt 20:56:05 s/x/s/ 20:57:06 stassats: do I really need VisualC++ on Windows? 20:57:32 you can always write your own CLIM backend. Other than that, GTK+ and Qt are fine options. 20:57:33 i don't have windows, so i can't comment on that, lichtblau should know 20:58:02 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:17 splittist: If you'r trying to install something from source, you can probably use gcc within .. forgetting the name of the package, cygwin or something like that 20:58:29 bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.54.201] has joined #lisp 20:58:48 You can get the MS C++ compiler for free 20:58:55 http://paste.lisp.org/+2KU9 has the Windows instructions 20:59:34 Google "Microsoft Windows SDK". 21:00:04 tmh: yeah, I know. Thanks. 21:00:09 lichtblau: thanks! 21:00:41 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:12 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:04:34 lichtblau: this should be more discoverable 21:08:45 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.166.30.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:18 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:15:51 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:16:29 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:40 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:20:09 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:31 ehhhh. pathname drama 21:23:41 *nikodemus* keeps a healthy distance 21:24:52 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:56 logical pathdramas 21:27:00 koollman: REPL, upon sending (SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE ) 21:27:10 nixfreak1 [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:38 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:17 flip214, Are you knowledgeable about ghostscript or anything? 21:29:20 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955B791.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:29:23 a bit ... 21:30:07 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:30:26 hm, maybe there is a gs channel 21:30:38 LMGTFY .... 21:30:50 I was going to check the channel list 21:31:07 but scratch that, "This command could not be completed because it has been used recently, and is rate-limited." 21:32:16 use #ghostscript, or ask me if it's something simple 21:32:35 It's just http://paste.lisp.org/display/122167 21:33:44 Qworkescence: isn't the path seperator in windows \ rather than / ? 21:34:06 i don't think it matters actually 21:34:11 "Last OS error: No such file or directory" 21:34:13 wccoder: most lisp systems translate from / to \ because backslashes in strings are a major pain 21:34:14 perhaps it does 21:34:33 I am 99% sure it doesn't because I tried both :) 21:34:39 win32 should normally accept / too, but maybe there's some incompatibility 21:34:49 LakatosI [557a1e03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.3] has joined #lisp 21:34:50 Qworkescence: for the config file, too? 21:35:06 antifuchs: except this looks like DOS command-line action, not a lisp program 21:35:49 flip214, all in all it works with another pdf in the same directory 21:36:01 ok 21:36:19 is that pdf password-protected, or corrupted? can you open it with another program? 21:36:19 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:03 yes i can open it with a variety of readers and print it 21:38:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:39:59 I suspect it might be an issue with conversion to PS. I'll cease from talking about it more here just to keep things relevant 21:40:24 Is there a way for a lambda function to call itself? 21:40:27 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h153n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:40:43 y combinator 21:41:08 aka fixed point combinator 21:41:10 LakatosI: use flet or labels - that's readable 21:41:14 LakatosI, Before looking up "y combinator", I suggest you try to write such a lambda yourself 21:41:38 Alexandria has named-lambda, doesn't it? 21:41:56 But if this is purely a program issue and not a curiosity, use flip214's suggestion 21:42:06 Bike: it uses labels, but it's done for debugging reasons 21:42:09 Trying to solve a problem for my math class I ended up in this strange situation where labeling is impossible for my purposes 21:42:22 You mean named-lambda is only used for debugging? 21:42:29 yes 21:42:31 Without labeling you'll need a fixed-point combinator, I think. 21:42:33 Oh, why? 21:42:35 LakatosI: why? you could always use a gensym as name 21:42:50 because it gives your lambda a name, obviously 21:43:09 No, I mean I want to generate functions that I will store and call later on 21:43:15 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756042.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:21 I thought it was just a macro that let you make a "anonymous" function that was accessible to itself with some name. 21:43:48 and like at least one of them should be recursive 21:44:00 Bike: no 21:44:29 well, just use labels resp. flet, and return the function 21:44:31 well, it can be called locally to, yes 21:44:46 the it can call itself but has no name outside that lexical environment 21:44:52 but it's only useful for debugging reasons 21:45:03 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:24 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:26 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:45:39 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:48 Well, I guess I'll try to squeeze in there a label or flet. 21:46:00 dmiles_afk [dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:05 Well, a while ago I wanted to use functions without global names which were recursive, and had to use a pretty ugly looking labels. Does named-lambda not do that? 21:46:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:08 I was refraining from it because I would have to rewrite a lot of stuff 21:46:12 but then again, some people find curry useful, so what do i know 21:46:18 -!- krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:24 krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 21:46:35 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:46:44 Just out of curiosity, this Y-combinator you are talking about 21:46:50 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:07 *splittist* indulges in some sweet qt howitzer action. Thanks lichtblau! 21:47:11 It is something usefull? Or just a curiosity? 21:47:14 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:21 LakatosI: the latter 21:47:28 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:33 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:47:41 Bike: you can use named-lambda for that, yes, but labels aren't ugly looking 21:47:53 I've seen a few pages claiming otherwise, but yeah, mostly a curiosity. 21:49:03 stassats: I guess we have different aesthetic tastes? (labels ((name (args ..) ...)) #'name) was I think what I used, and it seemed needlessly long. 21:49:21 define a macro then 21:49:38 Yummy, lambda-calculus... 21:49:56 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:50:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:50:12 I always tried to "learn" the lambda-calculus, but I never had the time or the patience 21:50:25 there's nothing to learn, really 21:50:38 there's just lambda, that's all 21:50:45 yeah, I know 21:50:50 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:51:06 The notation is the confusing part for me 21:51:21 "learn" as in "understand" 21:52:33 -!- billitch [~billitch@did75-20-88-183-33-86.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:19 everything can be expressed as a function 21:54:48 Lambda notation is kind of hard to read, but it does predate, well, a lot. 21:54:54 can you express the concept of zero? 21:55:07 no functions 21:55:20 that's not a function :P 21:55:22 the taste of ice cream after the first rain of a hot midsummer week. 21:55:42 I guess f(x)={} would do it... 21:56:05 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:56:21 *Landr* looks up the peano axioms 21:56:39 LakatosI: lambda f.lambda x. x 21:56:51 wikipedia actually has a nice layman's description of lambda calculus 21:56:52 LakatosI: see Church numerals 21:56:54 (for once) 21:57:10 Blkt` [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-31-211.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:57:47 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:53 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:58:01 basically describing how (defun add-two-nums (a b) (+ a b)), and (defun sum (x y) (+ x y)) perform the same calculation, and that calculation (regardless of how its params are named) is a lambda 21:58:33 so it can be extracted as an anonymous function, which add-to-nums and sum both refer to 21:58:52 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:59:16 I always enjoy sitting here in this room. I always learn something new 21:59:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:59:43 once that extraction of a function is performed, the calculus then can analyze various things about it, which isn't really useful to programmers, but to mathematicians and VM implementors 22:00:20 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-37-254.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:01:28 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit:     ] 22:01:35 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:01:39 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-24.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:01:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:01:40 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:01:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-24.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:01:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:01:46 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:03 -!- m_p_g [~m_p_g@dslb-094-223-211-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:03:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:06:25 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0042.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-223.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:07 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:22 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp_] 22:09:22 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:26 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.54.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:31 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:10:39 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:11:40 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:28 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 22:14:00 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:37 Reading essays such as The Bipolar Lisp Programmer, or the Curse of Lisp makes me sad 22:14:52 Are we lispers really THAT doomed? 22:15:27 yes, you are going to die alone and miserable 22:15:27 There is no standard but CLHS. All else is flimflam. ;) 22:17:13 LakatosI: those essays are just a bunch of baloney 22:17:23 LakatosI: they may be doomed, but you don't need to have the same experiences (: 22:17:36 ) I hope not 22:17:53 -!- wetnosed_ [~kai@e179022116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 22:18:15 not to worry, eventually all languages will evolve to become more lisp-like 22:18:37 until one day all non-lispers worldwide will have a collective "wait a minute... oooohhhhhh" realization 22:18:56 and then they shall flock to lisp and the world will be perfect ^_^ 22:19:06 unfortunately, the rapture is in a few hours, so bummer on that plan 22:19:10 Although they are "consoling " in that they offer an explanation as to why Lisp is not popular in the present 22:19:12 lol 22:19:22 Actually, the rapture is 1 day, 2 hours away 22:19:38 not in australia! 22:19:39 meh 26 hours is "a few" still 22:19:40 What's the rapture? 22:19:50 drdo: it's off-topic 22:20:00 lol 22:20:33 It is a few, compared to how many hours would fit in *largest-bignum* 22:20:46 (or something like that) 22:20:50 LakatosI: it's called most-positive-bignum 22:20:58 yeah 22:21:01 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 (if it existed) 22:21:16 it does! 22:21:27 of course, if it did, it would take all memory to hold the constant 22:21:30 (I'm too tired right now to give a car about grammar and important common lisp global variables :) 22:21:43 Nah 22:21:46 shit, now i'm curious what the most positive bignum is on my computer 22:21:48 It can exista 22:21:51 It does exist 22:21:55 just don't try to print it 22:22:07 seeing as bignum I presume would be bounded by memory constraints as an implementation detail 22:22:20 http://www.jwz.org/blog/2008/03/most-positive-bignum/ 22:22:24 though I guess some implementations could have smaller limits 22:23:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:02 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:19 what's TI Explorer lisp? 22:24:33 texas instruments implementation probably 22:24:36 Lisp machine 22:24:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Explorer 22:25:00 ah, their calculators are using the same name now 22:25:03 Curse you AI Winter! 22:25:09 LML, i would guess 22:26:04 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:26:09 more like TI winter, my phone has more computational capacity :/ 22:26:43 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:26:52 using TI OMAP? 22:27:36 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:57 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:31:34 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-149-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:37:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:40 izke [~Izke@33.Red-81-32-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:22 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:32 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:39:27 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:23 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:42:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A66E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:31 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43:43 Good morning everyone! 22:44:12 hi 22:44:38 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-25-209.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:44:58 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-25-209.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 22:47:03 beach: Hi 22:49:50 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #lisp 22:50:10 I'm compiling lisppaste on a recent sbcl. 22:50:13 anyone happen to know why the movitz files are inaccessible? http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/files/ 22:50:25 it's complaining about "WITH-ENABLED-INTERRUPTS" missing from SB-SYS. 22:50:33 can someone help me where it went? 22:50:52 why does it need that? 22:51:01 *no* idea. 22:51:09 it's part of araneida 22:51:51 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:56 Cooper__ [jockc@192.94.73.15] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 eek, araneida 22:52:21 192.94.73.15) has joined channel #lisp 22:52:21 #lisp ehu there's a SB-SYS:WITH-LOCAL-INTERRUPTS in mine. 22:52:34 anyone know of a usable simple SOAP client library (like SOAP::Lite for Perl)? 22:52:42 pjb: thanks! 22:52:50 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:53:02 stassats: in order to be able to bind signal handlers locally. 22:53:11 -!- tmh [6c491df1@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:53:17 So, I followed the instructions here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120321, and get an error "Error opening shared library commonqt.dll : %1 is not a valid Win32 application." This is my first windows computer of my educated life, so what am I doing wrong? 22:53:45 oconnore: you're using a Microsoft system. 22:53:51 i would think that the better project would be to put lisppaste onto hunchentoot 22:53:56 seems that did it. 22:54:04 stassats: true. 22:54:12 Cooper__: http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2007/03/common-lisp-and-soap-gsoap.html 22:54:13 stassats: we're looking for contributors 22:54:13 pjb: agreed. 22:54:37 %1 sounds like a Microsoft "shell" parameter. 22:54:49 pjb: i just bought a new laptop, and couldn't afford a thinkpad, so now I have to wait for linux to catch up... 22:54:51 oconnore: your architecture is mismatched? 22:54:52 http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2007/03/common-lisp-and-soap-gsoap.html 22:54:55 Perhaps you didn't pass a valid Win32 application pathname to something? 22:56:11 stassats: the kernel doesn't support my video card, suspend, etc. 22:56:24 oconnore: looks like you will have to debug the qt-tutorial. 22:56:25 bah 22:56:42 comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:13 pjb: hmm, ok. and basically i am looking for ways that CFFI isn't looking in the right spot? 22:57:45 Yes. 22:58:06 Check the %PATH% and whether the dll is in one of those directories. 22:58:32 oh, %PATH% contains c:\windows\system32, so that's not the issue 22:58:42 Alternatively, you could add the directory where you put the dlls to the %PATH%, but I don't know Microsoft shell syntax. 22:58:55 Cooper__: there are soap options in CL, but if you've chosen soap, your system is already fatally flawed. 22:59:00 oconnore: i don't understand your sentence about the video card, but i was asking whether you were trying to load a dll with for the wrong architecture 22:59:10 s/with// 22:59:21 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:59:23 i guess that was a bit smug. 22:59:25 mea culpa. 22:59:34 stassats: the video card is the reason he can't use Linux (yet) on his new laptop. 22:59:56 well, i'm not interested in this 23:00:07 you don't have to be :) 23:00:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:37 I don't touch MS-Windows directly. I use latex^W cygwin. 23:00:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:01:37 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:02:34 we often must deal with software we didn't choose 23:02:52 pjb: maybe i should try that. i think i will also try linux again now that .39 went mainline. i have been too busy with finals. 23:03:08 er. stable 23:03:24 I find it disappointing I can fire off a 10-20 line script in perl or python to make a SOAP call but in CL it's like pulling teath 23:04:44 few people use open source CLs on windows 23:05:07 I'm using Allegro 23:05:09 that, plus nobody cares about soap (: 23:05:17 aperturefever` [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 23:05:19 yeah :D 23:05:25 (sorry) (: 23:05:36 do you guys have jobs>? 23:05:37 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:39 you can fire off the call, but no other implementation of soap will understand it, so it's kind of zero sum. ;) 23:05:54 doesn't Franz have a SOAP library ? 23:06:02 none that have required soap until now (: 23:06:14 Cooper__: http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/6.2/doc/soap.htm 23:06:15 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-9-150.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:06:23 Cooper__: you can always quit, can't you? 23:06:24 it does but it is a pain.. like I said I can write a simple script in Perl to make a call 23:06:25 actually, http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/8.2/doc/soap.htm 23:06:33 this is for the recent version 23:06:40 so do it in perl (-: 23:06:49 Cooper__: scratch your itch if you want to use soap /w cl, or use perl, I guess. 23:07:13 is there not a cl soap lib 23:07:16 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:07:20 seems surprising 23:07:21 there is cl-soap 23:07:30 qeb`away [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 23:07:30 rotty_ [~rotty@78.41.115.190] has joined #lisp 23:07:30 I guess it is too much to ask for an easy to use library like SOAP::Lite or SOAPpy 23:07:30 Cooper__: or, as per that blog post, use a C library 23:07:33 crypto_ [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 23:07:53 It's even in quickload. 23:07:53 Cooper__: that's correct 23:08:05 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:05 there is also hu.dwim.util.soap 23:08:11 Tordek_ [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 23:08:11 aoh_ [~aki@85.23.168.115] has joined #lisp 23:08:22 so, now you have a project to tackle! 23:08:34 I can't imagine the horror the authors of those libraries went through 23:08:36 :D 23:08:39 So what do we do to people who complain there's no library for XYZ, when typing (ql:quickload :cl-xyz) is all that's needed? Tar and feathers? 23:08:43 Cooper__: I suspect you'll find that even if the library you're using is 'easy' nothing about actually interacting with a soap call chain will turn out to be. it died for a good reason. 23:08:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:08:52 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:52 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-nxnkpeuhnlctlwjl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:52 -!- prip [~foo@host72-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:52 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:52 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:52 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:52 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:52 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:54 -!- aperturefever` is now known as aperturefever 23:09:36 anyhow, try cl-soap. it's in quicklisp, so it builds. I have no idea if it's 'easy'. 23:09:47 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:09:51 prip [~foo@host72-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:09:57 No tar then? 23:10:01 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:13 tape archive? 23:10:23 No, the black gluey stuff. 23:10:29 And feathers. 23:10:49 pjb: On the one hand it sounds like complaining that nobody has done their work for them, and on the other, I'd like to mediate somewhat this notion that lisp people are assholes. :) 23:11:04 I think it would be cleaner and faster just archive him, we have the tools 23:11:11 :-) 23:11:20 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:08 smug asshole, thank you very much 23:12:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:14:30 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has joined #lisp 23:17:37 perseus [~perseus@ec2-50-16-101-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:32 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:36 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-146-24-8.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:19:49 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:53 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:10 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:24:11 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:09 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 23:28:08 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:30:46 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:37:12 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has left #lisp 23:37:19 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:37 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 23:37:55 comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:00 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 23:38:06 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-154.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:38:21 comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:30 This Uncommon Web thing, it's not on quicklisp? 23:39:45 Bike: that's quite possible. 23:39:59 http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw/ 23:40:18 -!- Tordek_ [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:18 Just checking, don't want to install it the old-fashioned way if I can avoid it. 23:40:36 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: Be right back. Restarting after update.] 23:40:42 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814881.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:40:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:40:55 comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:59 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 23:43:02 Bike: ah, if you want to check, then try: (ql:system-apropos "web") 23:43:26 so no, Uncommon Web doesn't seem to be included in ql (yet). 23:43:29 Yeah, I did, I'm just wondering if it might be under some strange name. I guess not. 23:43:55 comatose1kid [~comatose_@99-123-6-173.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-48.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:40 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@h-67-100-214-90.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:02 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-34-93.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:54:50 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-34-93.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 23:58:34 -!- comatose1kid [~comatose_@99-123-6-173.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:59:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-20.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]