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01:20:12 fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 beach [~user@116.118.8.188] has joined #lisp 01:20:58 Good morning everyone! 01:23:22 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:23:35 BrokenCog [~bc@206.135.197.46] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.109.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:51 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:23 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 01:33:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-48-230.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:17 morning beach 01:43:22 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.125.0] has joined #lisp 01:47:06 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:43 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:58 -!- xan__ 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-!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.146.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:13:50 -!- Quadresce is now known as Qworkescence 04:14:38 -!- rme [rme@clozure-F84EBA0B.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:14:38 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-85-2.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:21:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-207-90.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:33 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-74-243-26-90.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:30:10 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.146.154] has joined #lisp 04:36:55 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:37:32 -!- ceders [~ceders@adsl-69-231-121-141.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 04:43:56 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 04:46:25 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 04:50:27 Um 04:50:44 Reading about the LOOP macro, it reminds me a bit of C# LINQ 04:51:11 I don't know how deserved/undeserved that is 04:52:09 <_3b> 'an embedded DSL that doesn't quite look like the host language'? 04:52:52 *_3b* doesn't actually know if that is what LINQ is or not 04:54:22 Bleh, I don't think I can describe it properly. TOo tired to think properly, I think 04:54:55 Um, (from int i in my_list select i + 1) might be a LINQ query 04:55:09 Language Integrated Query, a set of C#3.0 language and framework features for writing structured type-safe queries over local object collections and remote data sources. 04:56:30 enables you to query any collection implementing IEnumerable<> such as array, list, XML DOM, SQL tables 04:56:50 *_3b* notes that you can write LOOP in CL if it wasn't there already (or if you don't like the one there), which i'm guessing is less convenient in c# :) 04:58:16 _3b: precisely. Use and adoption of LOOP didn't require a new language implementation. It was included in the spec becuase it was being used (if not universally...). 04:58:38 (although I don't know by how much it predates its inclusion) 05:01:20 "When hacking in Scheme, I miss LOOP. When hacking in Common Lisp, I 05:01:20 miss not having LOOP." 05:01:25 http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-scheme/667240-scheme-vs-common-lisp-war-stories.html 05:01:49 <_3b> yeah, LOOP is a bit controversial 05:02:13 <_3b> some people like it, some people reject it completely, some people dislike it but use it because it is there 05:03:25 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:58 evening 05:09:23 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:58 So many languages these days seem to be such a giant collection of objects and methods with the only 'documentation' being what pops up when you wave your mouse around the ide in the manor of Monkey Island that appreciating the mix of elegance, history and pragmatism that went into CL takes quite a mind change. 05:15:59 is github down? :p 05:16:04 -!- cesarbp is now known as cbp 05:16:20 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.41.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:16:27 <_3b> works here 05:17:11 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:20 says not available to me :( 05:17:33 -!- fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:33 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 05:18:10 -!- beach [~user@116.118.8.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:23 can access with firefox but not chrome o.O 05:20:54 Works For Me 05:20:57 On Chrome 05:21:33 me 2 05:21:45 <_3b> maybe got a bad DNS lookup cached or something 05:22:13 Are the differences in the implementations of loop? I'm trying to run some example code from Land of Lisp that goes (loop for a for b ...) but it won't work in SBCL unless I add from 0. 05:22:17 are there* 05:22:53 <_3b> yeah, none of them are quite strict about the spec in teh same way :( 05:23:18 <_3b> that loop is invalid, and sbcl is corrct in this case 05:23:22 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:23:28 <_3b> sbcl allows some differently invalid loops though 05:23:39 Ouch 05:23:41 messy 05:23:58 <_3b> (some implementations also have extensions, not sure if many people use those much though) 05:24:31 Because you can't do enough with loop without extending it? :P 05:24:41 <_3b> more or less :p 05:25:32 <_3b> for example i think SBCL adds syntax for binding multiple values, or for iterating over generic sequences 05:25:47 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-220-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:26:03 <_3b> i think most implementations have some ability for users to extend the loop syntax as well 05:26:37 *_3b* suspects most of the people who want more features or extensibility just move to ITERATE instead of LOOP though 05:26:51 splittist: cesarbp's comment right after yours was rather telling... in the old days we had elegant specs to standardized (or standardizable) languages with proprietary implementations. Now we have underdocumented languages with open source implementations that, with precious few exceptions, won't be subject to the benefits or costs of a formal standardization process. 05:26:53 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:27:55 <_3b> slyrus: and apple-style 'batteries included' where if the battery breaks you need to replace the whole thing :/ 05:27:57 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-220-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:30:21 I have been practicing CL through solving Project Euler problems for a while and find myself using or even depending on loop all the time, is this a bad habit (while learning) or to be expected? 05:30:39 <_3b> it is OK 05:31:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.125.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:36 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.125.0] has joined #lisp 05:32:25 Bike [~Bike@71-38-154-163.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:34 OK... since those CL books are like "half of all lispers consider this dirty, but..." every now and then, makes you wonder. 05:32:42 <_3b> most of the objections to LOOp are either aesthetic or things you run into at higher skill levels 05:32:43 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:33:01 <_3b> so if you don't mind how it loopk, and aren't running into problems, it is a good thing to learn :) 05:33:23 <_3b> particularly since it is part of the standard, and lots of code uses it, so you need to be able to read it anyway 05:33:48 alright, will keep looping 05:34:59 <_3b> probably a reasonable fraction of those lispers use it anyway, but just wish something nicer had made it into the spec 05:36:04 Someone just mentioned iterate, something I should know? 05:36:08 nothing's perfect 05:36:14 <_3b> it is also good to think about how well map, mapcar, etc would work for a given use though, since they can be nicer 05:36:39 mapcar looks nice only when you don't need LAMBDA 05:36:45 <_3b> iterate has some nice features over LOOP, for example it specifies how to extend it 05:37:10 <_3b> and it can do some useful things like maximizing by some function of the value of theobject being used, instead of the object itself 05:38:04 I've seen a lot of (iter) in people's code, but SBCL doesn't recognize neither iter nor iterate, do I need to add it? 05:38:13 yes 05:38:14 <_3b> it is a separate library 05:38:27 h. 05:38:29 Ah* 05:42:10 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:45 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:47:13 quicklisp to the rescue! 05:48:17 What if I have a library that I don't want added/won't get added for various reasons to quicklisp? 05:49:01 <_3b> install it by hand, or figure out how to set up your own quicklisp dist 05:49:27 I meant made a library, for others to use, but a smallish community 05:49:36 And involves a Windows .dll that I can't redistribute 05:49:43 Yes, I have a specific use case in mind >.> 05:49:51 bloop [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has joined #lisp 05:49:56 <_3b> well, second option would work there 05:50:22 <_3b> or you can tell them how to install it by hand, or just bulid binaries if they don't want to deal with lisp stuff 05:50:58 sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:24 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:35 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:53 does anyone have any interesting links or points of their own on single-dispatch duck-typing vs. a multiple-dispatch object systems? 05:52:24 (currently trying to learn CLOS by reinvention. No I don') 05:52:45 t have a more preferred method of learning :D) 05:52:51 *_3b* isn't sure what duck-typing has to do with it 05:53:50 well there seems to be a big dichotomy between the "all you can do is pass a message to an object (duck)" and the more "everything has a type and generic functions dispatch based on the types of all their arguments" systems 05:55:20 <_3b> seems like pretty much just the 'single' vs 'multiple' though 05:56:38 <_3b> 'single' gives you more implementation options i guess (ducks or types or whatever), but doesn't really matter which you pick for the comparison 05:57:32 <_3b> either you can call the function with the argument(s) or you can't, and the behavior either depends on 1 arg or all of them 06:00:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:03:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-99-47.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-99-47.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:52 -!- Bike [~Bike@71-38-154-163.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:32 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:41 Areil [~user@113.172.38.123] has joined #lisp 06:09:32 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-99-47.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:11:58 josemanuel [~josemanue@135.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:15:11 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:22:42 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:10 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:28:23 -!- benny [~benny@i577A89A0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:35:54 MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.229.213] has joined #lisp 06:36:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.125.0] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:37:02 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.125.0] has joined #lisp 06:39:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.25.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40:55 Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.123] has joined #lisp 06:41:58 BountyX [~erhan@76.241.99.93] has joined #lisp 06:43:01 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:53:05 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:01:16 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:03:01 I suppose car and cdr aren't generic methods? Because if they were, that would be awesome 07:03:45 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:01 they aren't 07:04:28 that sounds like a Bad Idea 07:04:31 and it wouldn't be awesome 07:05:35 stassats`, I adopted a new earmuffs convention 07:06:45 morning 07:06:49 you wear them only when it's cold? 07:06:59 stassats`, very close 07:07:26 Suppose I want to make a Thingy (TM) that acts like a list but isn't? 07:07:35 sequence 07:08:05 Qworkescence: you could use detachable cat ears, ^variable^ 07:08:24 stassats`, i actually now wear them in liquid i.e. fluid i.e. dynamic i.e. special; and the convention is thus ~variable~ 07:08:28 And I can make my own types of sequences, they're not limited to the builtins? 07:08:36 in liquid environments* 07:08:51 Sgeo, is there something specific you're interested in doing 07:09:15 Sgeo: no you can't and yes you can 07:09:18 A thingy that runs code to determine the next element. Something like lazy lists 07:09:41 Sgeo, so make an iterator class 07:09:41 the standard doesn't prohibit additional subtypes of sequence, but it doesn't provide a mechanism for defining them 07:11:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:11:48 stassats`, do you like my convention 07:12:25 no! 07:12:31 Aw. :( 07:12:59 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.146.154] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 07:13:41 Sgeo: sbcl allows you to create your own subclasses of sequence 07:14:33 Are iterator classes subclasses of sequence? 07:14:47 there are no iterator classes 07:14:52 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.65.1604&rep=rep1&type=pdf 07:14:52 *Sgeo* wants something standard, if only because he's too lazy to try to get anything other than Clozure working 07:15:04 So what was Qworkescence talking about? 07:15:30 about iterators, a concept 07:15:35 -!- cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has quit [] 07:17:16 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:52 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:19 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 07:19:52 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:44 -!- bloop [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:22:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:22:33 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:22:47 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:24:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:24:34 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:26:19 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:26:37 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:30:37 longfin [~longfin@118.131.240.58] has joined #lisp 07:32:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:32:36 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:34:19 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:34:37 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:35:53 who keeps putting bugs in my code? 07:37:55 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-54-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:07 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-0-65.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:43:02 lanthan [~ze@mail.congress-centrum-heidenheim.de] has joined #lisp 07:44:05 -!- lanthan [~ze@mail.congress-centrum-heidenheim.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:44:19 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:44:24 sahip [~sahip@217.131.235.62] has joined #lisp 07:44:34 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:45:25 Hello, I am trying to insert a "\n"(from C) into my string. Is this the way : "line 1~%line2~%line 3" ? 07:45:46 By "from C" I mean like it is in C 07:45:51 <_3b> that works in the context of a format string for FORMAT 07:46:02 hm 07:46:03 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:46:04 <_3b> for normal strings, just use a newline character and continue on next line 07:46:06 lanthan [~ze@mail.congress-centrum-heidenheim.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:46:22 literally press the return key, you mean 07:46:26 <_3b> right 07:46:30 alright 07:46:33 testing it on 07:46:34 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:47:34 <_3b> if you need it a lot and don't like the way it looks, there is also the option of adding a reader macro to parse some sytax like \n, see for example cl-interpol 07:48:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.125.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:19 yeah, I saw cl-interpol 07:51:35 What I am trying to do is, my window manager (stumpwm) pops an indicator for what frame I am at, or it numbers the frames. I am trying to make it so those indicators are bigger by inserting padding to them with spaces and newlines 07:52:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:52:34 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:54:14 hm, it shows a sinle character that appears like VT 07:54:26 Let me see what google has to say about this 07:55:56 <_3b> yeah, probably just displays the actual character rather than moving to next line 07:56:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:37 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:58:56 CrazyEddy [~whiteblow@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:59:25 That is convenient, isn't it? 08:00:18 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 08:00:26 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 08:00:37 EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:01:06 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.117.37] has joined #lisp 08:02:11 -!- loke [~elias@bb219-75-23-203.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:24 jfleming_ [~jfleming@124-149-36-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:03:41 On from home. Now see if I get *anything* done... 08:05:12 -!- EarlGray [~paranoid@ANice-252-1-32-150.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:06:05 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.229.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:06:40 MoALTz [~no@92.8.229.213] has joined #lisp 08:09:06 gko [~gko@223-139-71-31.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:37 loke [~elias@bb219-75-23-203.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:18:32 Hmm 08:18:47 I .. think, but am not sure, if this list is infinite 08:19:51 (setf my-list (copy-list '(1 2 3 4))) 08:19:57 (setf (cddr my-list) my-list) 08:20:06 I had to interrupt execution 08:20:09 it's finite, but cyclic 08:20:20 <_3b> you probably want to set *print-circle* before messing with circular lists 08:20:20 if you want to print it, set *print-circle* to T 08:20:43 Why did I have to interrupt execution tho... oh, maybe it was trying to print it afterwards? 08:20:58 <_3b> right 08:21:15 P part of REPL 08:27:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:29:48 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has joined #lisp 08:29:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.67] has quit [Changing host] 08:29:48 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:30:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:33:17 parkq [~parkq@c-24-60-172-205.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:42 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 08:37:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Client Quit] 08:37:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 08:39:04 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Client Quit] 08:40:45 *stassats`* wonders how to name his half-baked web-browser done with webkit through commonqt 08:41:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 08:42:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Client Quit] 08:43:08 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@135.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 08:43:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 08:43:28 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:39 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:03 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.41.194] has joined #lisp 08:45:27 cfy` [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 08:45:53 -!- cfy` is now known as Guest65053 08:45:57 cl-qt-web-browser doesn't sound well 08:46:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:46:41 galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:03 -!- galumph [~ron@bzq-84-108-249-117.cablep.bezeqint.net] has left #lisp 08:47:34 If a string contained line breaks in it, what would it width be? 08:47:46 *its* 08:47:49 a string with line breaks 08:48:08 oh, its width 08:48:28 the width of the longest line, i presum 08:48:31 e 08:48:39 hm 08:49:16 do you know about the workings of CLX ? 08:49:32 but wait, wait 08:49:42 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:45 first, how do I use format function to insert new lines? 08:49:59 (format t "~10%") 08:49:59 _3b told me but I cleared the screen 08:50:13 this will print 10 newlines 08:50:16 uhm, and that does what exactly? inserts 10 new lines? 08:50:17 okay 08:50:25 ~% will output just one 08:50:28 and return string 08:50:39 with t it will print, return a string with nil 08:51:01 say that last sentence again please? 08:51:05 I didn'T understand 08:51:29 (format t "~%") will print a new-line, (format nil "~%") will return a string containing a new-line character 08:51:43 oh oh 08:51:46 right 08:51:47 sorry 08:52:23 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.41.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:00 I am testing it again, hoping it will work this time 08:53:46 i wouldn't be surprised if you have to manually display text on different lines with clx 08:54:56 You are most probably right 08:55:10 because this gave me the same 'VT' character 08:57:00 -!- longfin [~longfin@118.131.240.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:26 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Quit: be back later] 08:57:40 *nikodemus* votes for blowser 08:57:52 I hate it when I want to do something that seems just so simple, but ends up just tormenting me for trying to do it 08:58:37 or maybe browther 08:59:17 *_3b* wonders why fonts have VT for newlines, second time i've heard that recently... would have expected that to be vertical tab character 08:59:53 *stassats`* went with https://github.com/stassats/cl-qt-web-browser , TBRL 09:00:29 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:00:48 cl-qtkit 09:01:34 those who have commonqt working can try it, it somewhat resembles a browser 09:02:05 um, where can I find a documentation for CLX? 09:02:20 As for how it treats strings especially 09:02:53 search for "CLX manual" 09:03:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:03:35 HET2 [~diman@nat67.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:05:20 oh, i forgot that it needs a somewhat patched commonqt 09:05:46 i'll assemble all the branches into one working later 09:09:05 sahip: notice that printing a new line may involve issuing two control codes (eg. 13 and 10), while returning a string containing a #\Newline character obviously involves a single character. 09:09:31 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 09:11:00 pjb: do you know what each code correspond to? 09:11:38 In ASCII or Unicode, 13 is Carriage Return, 10 is Line Feed. 09:12:03 I see 09:12:20 also (* a b) is how we multiply in lisp, right? 09:12:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@nat67.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12:25 Right. 09:12:53 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has joined #lisp 09:13:59 Okay, I will try a different approach this time. multiply the height for what clx will draw by 3, and then hopefully anchor the text properly so it appears as if there is an empty line above and below it. 09:17:02 sahip: graphic primitives usually don't draw multi-line strings. They consider any control code "character" in the string just like any other character. Since usually they're not in fonts, they're drawn as a box. 09:17:19 sahip: if you want to draw a multi-line string, you must split it yourself, and place the lines yourself. 09:17:42 sahip: for integers, you can also multiply using (defun multiply (a b) (let ((product (loop repeat (abs a) sum b))) (if (minusp a) (- product) product))) 09:18:14 or, for floats: (defun multiply (a b) (exp (+ (log a) (log b)))) 09:18:29 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-16-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:19:07 font height is integer, I believe 09:19:08 but thanks 09:19:52 sahip: in CLX, yes. But in most other (device independent) graphic systems, coordinates and font size are floats. 09:19:52 does anyone have a windows capable of building sbcl handy? 09:19:54 from what I saw, lisp appears to be a really interesting language 09:20:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:04 sahip: it is. 09:22:22 drdo`` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:24:52 -!- drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:09 and how do I insert a comment please? 09:30:22 ;; comment 09:30:27 thanks 09:30:29 -!- Guest65053 is now known as cfy 09:30:30 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 09:30:30 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:30:36 ;;;; Section comment 09:30:48 ;;; before a toplevel form it applies to 09:30:53 ;; inside a toplevel form 09:31:03 (something) ; line comment 09:31:35 that's the convention -- anything after ; is ignored 09:32:36 I was just replacing some code which I thought I might forget, so 09:33:03 what does this means « => true OR=> false » ? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq.htm#eq 09:34:13 sahip: you can also do #+nil (whole form that may span multiple lines) to comment out large chunks quickly 09:34:51 also, why is it written in the docutmentation (eq "Foo" "Foo")=> true, while my clisp says nil ? 09:35:37 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:44 naiv: look at the next line 09:35:56 it says OR=> false 09:36:03 (eq "foo" "foo") is unspecified 09:37:18 unspecified, ok thanks, I was not sure 09:38:08 (let ((x "foo")) (eq x x)) => t 09:38:26 (let ((x "foo")) (eq x (copy-seq x))) => nil 09:39:24 EQ compares identity, and literals like "foo" may be coalesced by the compiler. (multiple "foo" strings being replaced by reference to a single one) 09:40:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:41:36 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 09:41:46 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 09:42:13 then if my command line clisp returns nil, that means my literals weren't coalesced ? 09:43:00 clear 09:43:02 sorry 09:43:23 naiv: exact. 09:45:25 I am sorry but I am in terminal and I cannot see the full url for where I am supposed to paste 09:45:26 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:45:42 paste.lisp.org? 09:45:59 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:46:06 lisppaste? 09:46:14 minion: lisppaste 09:46:14 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 09:47:39 thanks 09:56:15 i don't think lisppaste is back up yet 09:56:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:56:30 It is not working 09:56:31 (taken down by common-lisp.net migration) 09:56:53 that shows that lisp is unreliable 09:58:00 indeed! and unpaid volunteers are flaky and not worth their cost! 09:58:10 exactly 09:59:37 sigh, I was so close to solving my problem... I just had a problem accessing the value of a variable so I thought I could ask you guys... Guess I cannot 10:00:32 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:00:44 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 10:01:25 sahip: what could be more simple than accessing the value of a variable? Just just write the name of the variable! 10:01:42 (defparameter *variable* 42) *variable* --> 42 10:01:48 (let ((a 42)) a) --> 42 10:02:45 -.- 10:03:05 I know THAT much 10:03:49 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 10:04:15 I multiply the height value no-problem, which is used to set xlib::drawable-height 10:05:00 (setf (drawable-height drawable) height) 10:05:06 below, where draw-image-glyphs is called, I change the Y parameter, and observe that I can set where the text appears inside the window 10:05:35 so, I try to send the height value to Y parameter 10:05:45 but nope. 10:07:40 i think we really need the paste now -- use any paste service you like 10:07:54 hmm hmm 10:07:55 thanks 10:08:47 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:09:02 first let me run a few demo scenarios so you understand how it affects the position of the text 10:11:13 okay, this is awkward 10:11:45 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:12:05 its previous value was (before I touched the code) "(xlib:font-ascent font)" 10:12:18 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:26 If I tried to use height instead, it would have very little affect 10:12:49 I summed the two, it gave the desired effect 10:12:53 odd 10:12:54 anywya 10:15:11 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:15:26 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:16:58 i'm loading linedit from my .sbclrc and it's giving me a lot of loading messages from asdf. can those be silenced? 10:17:01 It might be that the two were of different types. 10:17:26 limetree, sorry, that wasn't a response to you 10:18:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:20:54 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:24:03 fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 10:27:06 asdf:*asdf-verbose* mostly removed them. still getting some warnings. 10:30:33 brodo [~brodo@p5B022335.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:12 limetree: a handler-bind for WARNING and SB-EXT:COMPILER-NOTE to #'MUFFLE-WARNING might do the trick. 10:37:41 add^_ [~add^_^@h215n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:48 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:38:30 Xach: it did, thanks 10:39:01 kai__ [~kai@f052100087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:09 -!- kai__ is now known as wetnosed 10:45:20 sacho [~sacho@87-126-43-168.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:48:02 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 10:49:13 agumonkey [~noob@123.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:32 gluon [bc1ad40b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.26.212.11] has joined #lisp 10:57:34 hello 10:58:15 Ça colle? 10:58:43 jdz [~jdz@host105-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:59:08 yo 11:01:13 sprayzor [529f73ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.159.115.173] has joined #lisp 11:03:09 anyway, all of you that helped me, thanks a lot. I am now done. 11:05:22 -!- sahip [~sahip@217.131.235.62] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:07:12 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:10:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:50 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 11:20:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:21:08 -!- agumonkey [~noob@123.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:21:10 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.0.82] has joined #lisp 11:26:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 11:28:21 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.109.34] has joined #lisp 11:33:49 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has joined #lisp 11:39:40 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:50:56 Bacta [~Ricky@203.160.114.68] has joined #lisp 11:51:02 Should I learn Common Lisp or Scheme? 11:51:20 Common Lisp 11:51:28 Pros/Cons? 11:51:57 Is Scheme more of an academic tool? 11:52:44 Bacta: pros: this channel is about common lisp 11:53:18 How are the two different? 11:53:22 Bronsa [~brace@host120-178-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:55:17 not much in principle, common lisp has a larger standard and compatibility between different implementations is greater 11:56:05 different implementations of scheme provide much of what common lisp has, but they're usually incompatible between each other 11:56:57 Is it considered purely functional? One of the key points of the functional paradigm is that you have no concept of state but I've seen a lot of code with local variables 11:57:10 neither of them is purely functional 11:57:12 So you can have state but within the scope of a function 11:57:39 I'm not aware of any language that prevents that. 11:58:26 Bacta: local variables don't hold state 11:58:58 Bacta: Most scheme implementations allow you to have lobal state and even dynamic variables. There is absolutely no referential transparency. 11:59:05 s/lobal/global/ 11:59:27 and local state, closures 11:59:57 I've been reading through this: http://www.cs.gmu.edu/~sean/lisp/LispTutorial.html , having a lot of fun with it 12:00:41 And I've heard that you can use Lisp for "programming in the large" 12:00:56 you certainly can 12:01:28 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:31 Oh, and is CLisp Jewish? 12:02:40 I get a Jewish candle holder thing when I start it up 12:02:41 No. It's German. 12:02:51 Ah 12:03:00 You get the candles only for esthetical reasons. 12:03:20 And a lot of Copyrights ;) 12:03:36 pjb: FAQ implies political reasons, actually. 12:03:41 You can launch it with: -q -ansi 12:04:16 Odin-: perhaps. Memory failing here, then. 12:04:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:19 it's to fend off antisemites 12:05:56 Not all semites use a menorah, and not all who use a menorah are semites. 12:05:58 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:29 antisemites are short-sighted, they won't know the difference 12:06:37 ok 12:07:32 I thought it was German? 12:07:51 Originally, it was written by Germans, with German comments. 12:07:57 it's international now 12:08:06 heh (+ 1 2 3) 12:08:11 But nowadays, like any other free software, it's written in English by people from all over the world. 12:08:16 If you think of + as a function (which it is) that makes sense 12:09:20 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:23 Bacta: and it's convenient, actually, it a) removes the need to remember precedence b) allows you to provide many arguments to a single operator 12:09:46 The first computers didn't have a lot of special characters (and not the same from one computer to the other), so they called it (plus 1 2 3) and (times 2 3 4), etc. 12:10:29 which isn't defined as a function in clisp ;) 12:11:10 Not anymore. Common Lisp is a modern lisp. 12:11:15 so i find (+ 1 2 (* 3 4) 5 6) easier than 1 + 2 + 3 * 4 + 5 + 6 12:11:18 /w 50 12:11:27 oops, sorry 12:11:59 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:12:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:30 Hello 12:13:49 (defun plus (x y) 12:13:49 (+ x y) 12:13:49 ) 12:13:51 ftfy 12:13:51 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-21-133.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:26 Bacta: yes, it's easy to adapt Common Lisp to be able to run old programs: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 12:14:38 Bacta: rather (defun plus (&rest args) (apply #'+ args)) 12:15:41 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-31-47.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:59 So my "tutorial" covers a lot of very easy stuff 12:16:05 Is there anything more meatier out there? 12:16:14 minion: tell Bacta about PCL 12:16:16 Bacta: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:16:21 minion: tell Bacta about PAIP 12:16:21 Bacta: look at PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 12:16:24 minion: tell Bacta about SICP 12:16:24 Bacta: please look at SICP: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 12:16:30 minion: CLHS? 12:16:30 CLHS: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 12:16:33 That should keep you busy for a while. 12:17:13 This isn't going to turn me into RMS is it? I don't think my girlfriend would be happy with me having a Unix beard 12:17:20 Bacta: No. 12:18:55 Bacta: picture of a typical successful lisper: http://www.flickr.com/photos/xach/5585162552/in/photostream 12:19:17 Bacta: modern lispers are notoriously sexy. Xach is the spitting image of Johnny Depp. Peter Seibel looks like a more handsome George Clooney. 12:19:41 Bacta: picture of a typical successful and rich (by selling a lisp company) lisper: http://paul.graham.usesthis.com/ 12:19:51 brb, shaving my beard 12:19:58 pnq [~nick@AC8192E7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:23 That photo was taken by a 3-year-old 12:20:42 Which just shows that successful lispers have good genes too. 12:20:56 pjb: http://tlb.org/img_0270c.jpg also 12:21:15 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 12:21:15 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 12:21:15 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:21:18 I see 12:21:38 pg shows his distaste for CL? 12:21:39 Xach: those are the worries and long nights trying to fund start ups. 12:21:52 I wanted to pick this up so I could get some better perspectives on my current work (I code Python professionally) but if it will make me more attractive I'm all for that ;) 12:22:15 The folks at Franz do a calendar called Dieux Du Stade... 12:22:36 http://www.flickr.com/photos/xach/4936434198/ is a photo taken by an adult! 12:23:16 Same look, more success! :-) 12:24:22 varjag [~eugene@162.163.9.46.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:33:27 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:36:11 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 12:36:16 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:37:02 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:39:29 does defun == define? 12:39:55 Not exactly. 12:39:58 defun is to define functions. 12:40:03 defstruct is to define structures. 12:40:08 defvar is to define variables. 12:40:22 defparameter is to define parameters (= variables). 12:40:28 defclass is to define classes. 12:40:28 etc. 12:40:46 thanks 12:41:35 classes? 12:41:37 CL is a lisp-2, while scheme is a lisp-1. (lisp- actually). 12:42:09 Bacta: yes. CL is the first standardized programming language having an object system. It's also the best object system of the world. CLOS = CL Object System. 12:42:16 kaek [~b@c-99cfe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:42:32 lisp2 12:44:42 benny [~benny@i577A123E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:56 minion: tell Bacta about lisp-2 12:46:56 Bacta: please see lisp-2: is at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 12:49:43 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:50:26 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:15 -!- gko [~gko@223-139-71-31.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:54:26 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.193.18] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 -!- Bacta [~Ricky@203.160.114.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:00 Which impl of CL that we could have on Iphone ? 12:56:07 ccl and ecl. 12:56:19 Both highly experimental. 12:56:29 AFAIK, no application in the AppStore in CL yet. 12:57:19 are they stable enough ? 12:57:37 Both highly experimental. 12:57:44 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.41.194] has joined #lisp 12:57:59 how about on Android and some HTC smart phone ? 12:58:22 abcl cannot work on Android, since they don't use Sun's JVM... 12:59:23 abcl can't work on anything but Oracle's JVM because Java turned out to be not as standardized as everyone believed. 12:59:39 what a pity :( 13:00:24 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.41.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:02 hi guys , does anyone knows a good intro on SLIME ? 13:01:37 http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Videos 13:01:39 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:02:54 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Bye?] 13:02:55 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:03:05 pjb, did you make anything in CCL on Iphone ? 13:03:06 :P 13:03:23 Not yet. Will be soon. 13:03:56 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-114-168.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:06 then post a video on youtube , I will be glad to see :P 13:04:24 Sure :-) 13:05:37 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 13:05:42 I'm trying to find a simple library to do pattern matching, unifications, and rules. Something like the Prolog interpreter in "On Lisp". I've looked at cl-unification but I can't figure out how to add substitution rules. 13:05:52 Also, Hi. 13:08:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.229.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:06 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:17:10 Fare has a cl-match pattern matcher library. 13:17:39 pjb: I don't know that one. Can mimic Prolog Rules? 13:17:51 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-51-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:22:25 The name is fare-matcher, isn't it? 13:23:00 Is there a prolog extension that's not just a demo? 13:23:01 Correct. Cl-match is made by Dan Bensen. 13:23:27 WarWeasle: you mean a prolog implementation written in CL. 13:23:45 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 MoALTz [~no@92.18.74.188] has joined #lisp 13:23:47 pjb: Yup. It would make my world very simple indeed! 13:24:14 WarWeasle: paiprolog is such a thing 13:24:21 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:24:32 Xach: I looked at that and thought it was just code from the book. 13:24:33 WarWeasle: dmiles may have something too, improved upon paiprolog. 13:25:08 WarWeasle: I don't know if that means it's insufficient or what. 13:25:50 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:53 Xach: If it can do anything like prolog's rule-based matching, then I can make do. 13:26:47 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:26:51 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 13:30:15 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:31 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0030.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:17 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:36:12 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:21 BrokenCog [~bc@pool-108-18-170-136.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:26 How do you start the interpreter in paiprolog? 13:39:09 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B38F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:34 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:21 (paiprolog:read ...duh 13:43:39 silenius [~silenus@p4FC23512.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:35 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-114-168.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:36 naryl: ABCL can't work on android because it's not Java. 13:44:49 has nothing to do with Java not being standard. 13:45:25 ABCL runs on JRockit and the former Sun JVM; any other JVMs may or may not work, but problems have not been reported. 13:45:25 ehu: Can it work on jamvm? Jamvm conforms to standard. 13:45:46 ehu: Just ask on #abcl. I reported some problems. 13:45:54 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0030.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 13:45:55 naryl: it should work on jvms which conform to the 1.6 standard. 13:46:47 It doesn't. And of three things (ABCL, jamvm, the Java standard) it is the last one's problem. 13:47:19 if you want your problems fixed, they should end up in the ticket system; that's best achieved through the mailing list. I'm on #abcl regularly, but not enough to follow all individual reports there. 13:47:42 naryl: JRockit follows the standard too, but it turned out we triggered issues in it. 13:48:31 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:04 by fixing those on our side, we were quicker to support it. 13:53:13 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 13:54:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-51-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:57:02 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.0.82] has quit [Quit: bsod1] 13:57:06 cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:30 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:01:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:50 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:31 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.117.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:06:01 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:40 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-187-179.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:19 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-21-133.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:28 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 14:13:53 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:29 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:45 billitch [~billitch@78.251.143.171] has joined #lisp 14:18:26 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:36 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.149] has joined #lisp 14:20:49 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:40 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-74-243-26-90.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:10 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:00 billitch1 [~billitch@78.251.136.164] has joined #lisp 14:25:24 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:26:59 is the first function line "some description" included in clisp or just elisp ? 14:27:55 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.143.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29:04 (format t "~2,0D" 1) 14:29:05 ==> The value 0 is not of type CHARACTER. 14:29:24 could someone explain how I'm supposed to print a zero-padded integer in minimum 2 columns? 14:29:46 CLHS told me "~mincol,padcharD uses padchar as the pad character instead of space.", but SBCL clearly disagrees 14:30:12 so either I can't read, or SBCL has a bug 14:31:00 it apparently sees ~2,0D as "FORMAT directive ~0 followed by a literal character D" 14:31:22 '0 14:31:58 ,comments 14:32:04 lichtblau: ooh 14:32:09 where's that explained? 14:32:16 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 14:32:50 "Prefix parameters are notated as signed (sign is optional) decimal numbers, or as a single-quote followed by a character." 14:32:54 oh I see 14:33:04 lichtblau: thanks for setting me straight 14:33:35 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:37:05 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:56 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:38:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:38:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:38:57 Bike [~Bike@71-38-154-163.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:05 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@78.251.136.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:45 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:52 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.21.107] has joined #lisp 14:40:25 Hi all! 14:40:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:10 billitch [~billitch@78.251.136.164] has joined #lisp 14:43:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:40 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:14 -!- jdz [~jdz@host105-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:45:28 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:37 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:47:50 damn ! 14:48:06 how to work with Java after fall in love with CL ? 14:49:03 Maybe you can use ABCL or clojure instead and still interface with existing java code 14:51:04 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-74-243-26-90.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:57 it can generate java code ? 14:53:23 jvm bytecode 15:00:06 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 15:03:41 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sdeiypgfuqdbqhrp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:52 urandom__ [~user@p548A749C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 Warweasle: see also Screamer 15:10:00 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-132-27.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:10:12 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:34 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-132-27.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 15:10:41 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-51-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:10:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-51-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 15:12:31 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.136.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:52 -!- Younder [~john@41.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:21 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 15:14:30 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:30 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 15:15:49 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022335.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 15:16:10 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:00 paul0 [~user@189.115.60.144] has joined #lisp 15:17:43 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:18:03 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:20:46 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-185.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:21:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:35 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC23512.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:41 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:26:00 -!- varjag [~eugene@162.163.9.46.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:27:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:47 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8192E7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:06 jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.21.170] has joined #lisp 15:30:17 urs_ [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:30:50 paul0` [~user@189.114.207.115.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:32:13 -!- paul0 [~user@189.115.60.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:33:33 who rules over sbcl.org? Whoever that is, could you make it point to the same place as www.sbcl.org, so that http://sbcl.org works? 15:35:29 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 15:36:00 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ibxmbkoyxnvsotly] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 15:38:25 nslookup -query=soa sbcl.org says that it's hostmaster@b9.com 15:38:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:39:50 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:49 cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:39 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@41.15.21.170] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:51:41 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:11 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:27 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 15:55:11 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:32 snearch [~snearch@f053011137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:06 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:39 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:40 -!- lanthan [~ze@mail.congress-centrum-heidenheim.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-218.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:15 pnq [~nick@AC81ABCA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:10 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has left #lisp 16:17:54 -!- sprayzor [529f73ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.159.115.173] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:19:49 lanthan [~ze@conference/piratenpartei.de/x-qpebmhejqgkgedlk] has joined #lisp 16:23:34 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 16:23:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:46 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.130.95] has joined #lisp 16:25:51 -!- paul0` [~user@189.114.207.115.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:56 -!- cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:10 paul0` [~user@189.114.207.115.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:26:28 silenius [~silenus@p4FC23512.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:38 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-74-243-25-163.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:40 Younder [~john@41.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:28:46 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host120-178-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:12 alama [~alama@182.113.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:33:25 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-166-46.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:33:58 wrt earlier lisps, what is meant by 'the erasure problem' ? 16:34:30 http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/lisp/node3.html 16:37:10 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:19 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-74-243-25-163.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:32 Krystof [~csr21@82.109.173.110] has joined #lisp 16:38:14 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.193.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:39:37 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.193.18] has joined #lisp 16:41:02 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:46 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:45:23 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:40 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 16:45:57 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81ABCA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:15 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:30 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 16:47:56 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:40 madnificent: I think they meant the deallocation of objects. 16:50:03 pjb: ah, it's the converse of garbage collection (which didn't really exist anywhere at the time, if I understand it correctly) 16:50:08 (let ((a (list 1 2))) (setf a (list 3 4)) #| you need to erase (1 2) before! |#) 16:50:27 Garbage collection is the alternative solution to the erasure problem. 16:50:33 yup, I get it... C heap style 16:50:37 The first solution was free (as in malloc/free). 16:52:01 free was called XERASEF in FLPL: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/flpl.html 16:52:03 also is rpg on this channel, Richard P. Gabriel? 16:52:11 ah, cool :) 16:52:20 but free was never really used in LISP, was it? 16:52:30 There was also XTOERAF to erase the list and sublists. 16:52:52 Indeed, lisp got a garbage collector from day one (or at least, ignored the problem before having it! :-)) 16:52:54 I mean, they didn't implement the garbage collector, but they pretended it existed anyways (if I understand J. McCarthey's paper) 16:53:02 Yes. 16:53:12 jmbr [~jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:53:26 actually, that sounds typical for lisp development: "we know we can have this later, let's start pretending we have it now" 16:53:28 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:53:37 considering the memory available on the machines back then, that must have been quite frustrating. 16:53:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:13 Fade: apparently, it didn't matter for their toy projects, possibly because they could restart the lisp and never really ran into a real problem for a single test case... it became different later on 16:56:35 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@210.192.101.123] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:00:35 Krystof_ [~csr21@82.109.173.110] has joined #lisp 17:00:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@82.109.173.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:54 -!- BrokenCog [~bc@pool-108-18-170-136.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:38 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h215n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 17:12:24 Bronsa [~brace@host120-178-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:13:14 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:16:02 BrokenCog [~bc@pool-108-18-170-136.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:50 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:57 pnq [~nick@ACA246B2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:36 Does anyone if there are cl bindings to libgnunet? 17:33:47 -!- Krystof_ [~csr21@82.109.173.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:00 -!- drdo`` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:13 Areil [~user@113.172.38.123] has joined #lisp 17:35:48 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 17:36:23 is the gnunet project still vital? 17:36:27 as in, alive? 17:37:37 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:00 The domain name is still live. 17:39:44 i was aware of gnunet at one point, and when you asked, I realised I hadn't heard a peep since about 2006. 17:39:46 Despite alarmists news titles: "Easter 2011: Death of the gnunet.org server". 17:39:48 heh 17:40:06 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 17:40:10 (that was only hardware problems). 17:41:19 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 17:43:35 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 17:45:27 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:51 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC23512.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:02 drdo`` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:55:03 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:24 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.197] has joined #lisp 17:59:09 Can anyone else check out or update slime cvs today? 17:59:35 I'm getting lock errors from the server. 18:00:08 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:00:16 i can update it 18:00:16 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-43-168.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:00:24 but then, i'm not using anonymous cvs 18:01:08 Ok. 18:01:22 -!- fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:01:23 i get lock errors, too. 18:01:36 with a standard anonymous co 18:02:03 tried to check out anonymously, fails 18:02:37 nikodemus has a git repo with his format fixes 18:02:39 another good reason to have commit access! 18:02:58 s/format/indentation 18:03:10 antifuchs's mirror is up to date 18:06:05 rudi_ [~rudi@2001:470:28:5a5:5a55:caff:fef8:d221] has joined #lisp 18:07:23 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 18:13:24 Simul [~chatzilla@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:41 npoektop_ [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 18:16:57 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:01 -!- npoektop_ is now known as npoektop 18:17:23 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 18:19:39 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 18:20:43 -!- rudi_ [~rudi@2001:470:28:5a5:5a55:caff:fef8:d221] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:20:52 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.193.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:26 orivej [~orivej@host-6-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 18:31:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 18:33:59 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 hi 18:36:13 Hello 18:36:23 add^_ [~add^_^@h215n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:27 i go to editing symbol view with C-c C-d d keybinding how can back to repl mode in slime 18:36:50 sorry with M-. 18:36:52 Luke [~Luke@adsl-99-23-153-146.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:04 C-c C-z I _think_ 18:37:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 yup thats right 18:40:54 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-185.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:40:54 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.130.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:10 Night-Hacks: M-, flies you back 18:41:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:54 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:43:45 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:55 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:43:55 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:57 Is there a slime cheat sheet somewhere? 18:44:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:02 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:44:15 stassats`: yeah its also better, doesnt open new window 18:47:20 -!- Guthur [c743cb8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.140] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:48:34 What's the difference of skip-list and hash-table indices in bknr.indices? 18:50:24 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-5-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:52:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:52:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:49 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:16 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:57 -!- lanthan [~ze@conference/piratenpartei.de/x-qpebmhejqgkgedlk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:55:36 Is it my imagination or is SBCL 1.0.47 lots faster than say 1.0.32 in compiling? 18:59:49 riverspart [~nguyenvan@117.6.134.179] has joined #lisp 19:01:06 Luke pasted "eshell-init" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122004 19:01:19 C-x C-s saves entire page to a file, is there anyway to saving just codes ? 19:01:34 Symbol's value as variable is void: set-env-vars <-- can anyone tell my why i'm getting this when I run the above paste? 19:01:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:23 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:05:23 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:23 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:05:39 stassats`: any idea ? 19:06:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:48 binarycodes [~sujoy@59.93.210.45] has joined #lisp 19:07:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:57 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:11:24 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:12:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:13:23 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:41 Luke: this is really an #emacs question, that being elisp, but the answer is "you're supposed to use 'set-env-vars or #'set-env-vars when you mean a function value (as opposed to a variable value)" 19:21:23 naryl: better ask that on the mailing list. Hans Huebner will probably answer it 19:24:03 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 19:25:40 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:26:17 mathrick: thanks 19:27:40 ticl [~duncan@host86-186-42-139.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 rvirding [~chatzilla@h88n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:39 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: udzinari] 19:34:12 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:34:20 adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-44.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 19:40:54 -!- riverspart [~nguyenvan@117.6.134.179] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:41:24 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 19:42:09 -!- elliottcable is now known as purr 19:42:24 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3d71.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 hi 19:43:07 sacho [~sacho@83.228.17.177] has joined #lisp 19:43:24 -!- purr [~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:44:07 elliottcable [~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.102.252] has joined #lisp 19:47:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.130.95] has joined #lisp 19:51:55 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.130.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:58 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:43 -!- parkq [~parkq@c-24-60-172-205.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:52 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:13 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-132-27.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:57:16 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:42 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-132-27.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 20:07:50 -!- Luke [~Luke@adsl-99-23-153-146.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:54 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.21.107] has quit [Quit: Ave Atque Vale] 20:12:09 -!- ticl [~duncan@host86-186-42-139.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 20:19:59 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-5-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:29 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:46 baffled [~kirk@anarchy.reisers.ca] has joined #lisp 20:30:10 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3d71.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:44 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-246.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:33:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA246B2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: food] 20:34:09 -!- binarycodes [~sujoy@59.93.210.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:34:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-218.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:34:51 binarycodes [~sujoy@59.93.193.225] has joined #lisp 20:37:50 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host120-178-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:08 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:14 Luke [~Luke@c-67-186-110-87.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:46:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:09 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51:49 HET2 [~diman@nat67.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:53:48 -!- BrokenCog [~bc@pool-108-18-170-136.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:58 Hi folks, I am very new to lisp so I have bunches of newbie questions so I apologize in advance for sounding clewless. If I want to find what is available for a project how do I find it? For innstance for socket programming or web access? 20:57:19 -!- alph_cent [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:57:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:57:22 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0106.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:27 baffled: the main reference is http://cliki.net/ 20:57:36 you will find almost all the pointers there. 20:58:08 There's also http://www.cl-user.net/ and http://common-lisp.net/ 20:58:56 -!- Simul [~chatzilla@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 20:59:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:04 agumonkey [~noob@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:35 pjb: thank you I'll check those out. 21:02:42 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 21:03:53 -!- alama [~alama@182.113.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 21:05:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:11:54 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-246.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:16:27 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:18:23 cbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has joined #lisp 21:19:26 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-246.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:20:30 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:22:16 bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.104.89] has joined #lisp 21:24:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:42 -!- agumonkey [~noob@141.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:36:55 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0106.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:37 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 21:39:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:49 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41:44 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-220-220.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:50 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:45 jesusito [~user@158.pool85-54-75.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:00:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:29 -!- jesusito [~user@158.pool85-54-75.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 22:08:25 Okay, I have debian as my distro with clisp installed. I see one of the packages installed is cl-asdf but do I still need to get the currently recommended libraries from the cliki page such as alexandria etc? 22:09:03 I'm trying to figure out how this all fits together. 22:09:48 CL has an independent mechanism, called Quicklisp, that you should probably get. 22:09:49 baffled: beware of packages installed by distributions. 22:09:54 baffled: use quicklisp. 22:10:10 minion: tell baffled about quicklisp 22:10:11 baffled: direct your attention towards quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 22:10:57 hahah, thanks I'll check out quicklisp and friends. 22:11:20 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:35 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-99-202.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B38F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:16:30 gumbo [~gumbo@26.pool85-49-196.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:17:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-99-202.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:14 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h215n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:19:38 baffled: Debian's packages are... legendary 22:22:06 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:22:52 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-5-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:27:00 p_l|backup: legendary can be a good thing or a bad thing, I'm guessing you mean it negatively. 22:27:21 <_3b> 'legendary' as in 'from the time of legends' :p 22:27:45 I'm affraid at this point though I'm so overwhelmed I'm just trying to gett hings straight. 22:28:26 <_3b> (mostly the problem is that most of us don't use distro packages, and probably don't use the same distro anyway, so any support we give would have to start with 'uninstall distro packages and get upstream' anyway) 22:29:00 baffled: just ignore anything from the distribution apart from the bare CL implementation (sbcl, ccl, or clisp). Get your lisp libraries with quicklisp. 22:29:15 *_3b* would install the lisp from upstream too 22:29:21 Me too. 22:29:26 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:29:32 <_3b> debian tends to have the lisp depends on things with annoying config files 22:30:41 Okay, I'll try it for now with my distro clisp and install quicklisp and maybe later back out and install from up stream. 22:30:43 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:31:10 I still have to get my head around slime and everything else. 22:33:04 Phillip [~Phillip@c-174-53-229-4.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:43 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:42 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:36:00 (lambda (x) (eat x)) 22:36:29 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-44.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:23 gumbo: in lisp, you can use higher level abstractions: 22:38:31 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:38:31 (eat :what 'meat :who 'gumbo) 22:38:44 manuf [~manuf@143.Red-79-158-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:54 (cry :with eyes :what blood :when forever) 22:39:56 -!- manuf is now known as peaton 22:40:20 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.104.89] has quit [Quit: bsod1] 22:40:44 -!- peaton [~manuf@143.Red-79-158-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:58 -!- Luke [~Luke@c-67-186-110-87.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:45:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-166-46.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:46 The second issue came: http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-know_14.html 22:48:59 I find he makes a very good job convincing people NOT to use C anymore... 22:49:28 (and therefore of course, C++, Objective-C, etc). 22:50:44 pnq [~nick@ACA29CAD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:05 *_3b* wonders how much less of a problem that would be with sbcl+slime style warnings/notes/etc all over the place after compilation 22:52:09 Krystof [~csr21@82.109.173.110] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 <_3b> (for people who cared enough to actually look at them at least) 22:53:35 There're limitations to what the compiler can do with warning anyways. The problem is that there are a lot of undefined things in C, and that means that implementations can benefit from them when optimizing, hence a great variance in the actual semantics. 22:53:59 <_3b> i mean stuff like dead code elimination notes 22:54:11 <_3b> i regularly find bugs in my code when sbcl kills code i didn't expect for example 22:54:13 -!- gumbo [~gumbo@26.pool85-49-196.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 22:54:40 <_3b> which could have caught the problem in the first example if the null check was eliminated 22:54:59 _3b: the problem is the definition of the language, not the crutches you add to the tools. 22:55:02 In short, if you want to have any certitude about your program you better not write it in C. 22:55:58 <_3b> right, just wondering how much of a solution to that problem better tools could be 22:56:07 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-5-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 22:56:43 <_3b> not like people don't write plenty of 'undefined' code in lisp too 22:56:46 As I said, Lattner makes a very good case, all the 6 points at the end mentions the limitations of the tools... 22:57:41 _3b: yes, but it seems to me there are less undefined parts in lisp, and foremost, there's always the safetynet of (optimize (safety 3))... 22:58:24 <_3b> you mean restrict-compiler-policy, since people actively turn off safety :/ 22:58:35 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:41 -!- Krystof [~csr21@82.109.173.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:51 <_3b> unless you mean (safety 3) + "don't use other people's code" :) 22:59:25 Perhaps I should grep -v optimize in libraries... I always keep (optimize (safety 3) (speed 0) (space 0) (debug 3)) in my rc files... 22:59:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:39 My pronostic is that Lattner will complete LLVM, and then start working on a new programming language. 23:00:40 *_3b* tends to only set (speed 3) and inline things when i optimize, but ive had to debug at least 1 or 2 safety 0 bugs from external libs 23:01:07 Libraries should not declaim optimizations. 23:01:29 <_3b> the specific one i remember was function level declare 23:01:56 <_3b> which is what i tend to do as well, since it works for C-c C-c 23:01:59 There's no point in doing such a thing. 23:02:12 <_3b> (and doesn't spam compiler notes for functions that don't need to be fast) 23:02:31 <_3b> no point in (speed 3) declarations in a function? 23:02:38 Yes. 23:02:57 This is up to the application, delivery time, to decide how to compile things. 23:03:29 *_3b* disagrees 23:03:33 Luke [~Luke@99.23.153.146] has joined #lisp 23:03:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:04:11 <_3b> same way i wouldn't suggest changing optimization settings in C libraries (for a lot of the reasons mentioned in that article) 23:05:29 <_3b> at least localized (speed 3) won't break things though, unlike (safety 0) 23:06:29 BrokenCog [~bc@206.135.197.46] has joined #lisp 23:09:59 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:45 beach [~user@116.118.72.194] has joined #lisp 23:15:52 Good morning everyone! 23:16:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:56 -!- BrokenCog [~bc@206.135.197.46] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:18:11 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:22:37 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:01 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:15 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 23:30:45 alama [~alama@62.28.134.73] has joined #lisp 23:31:04 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.74.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:21 MoALTz [~no@92.8.227.7] has joined #lisp 23:36:19 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:34 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:46:36 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h88n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:48:43 -!- wetnosed [~kai@f052100087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:09 -!- alama [~alama@62.28.134.73] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:57:33 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 23:57:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 23:57:33 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp