00:00:26 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-20-254.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:00:50 i dunno if CLOS is THE solution. I think having programmable dispatching is a very strong thing, but I'm not sure that requires, for instance, a concept of 'types' in the non-duck sense. (don't mind me though, I'm just a noob) 00:01:30 -!- HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:01:35 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:02:32 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-104-127-9.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:37 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:58 you only have to use class inheritance to inherit behaviour. 00:04:38 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 pnq [~nick@ACA221E3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:50 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:41 it just seems like for really simple things, first-class closures + hash tables works just fine. A way to hide stuff and a way to show stuff. :) has a nice axiomatic "basis" feel to it, I think. 00:12:48 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 00:16:41 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 00:21:47 <_3b> Xach: cl-opencl shouldn't care which opencl implementation you use, so the intel sdk should work as well as the amd or nvidia stuff (not that that says much, given how well the nv opencl doesn't work) 00:22:55 <_3b> Guthur: no changes to cl-opencl, got too annoyed with nv drivers to continue fighting them without some serious use for opencl, so decided to wait until they released opencl 1.1 drivers... still waiting :/ 00:26:37 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:26:39 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-84-90.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:59 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:00 bloop: they work especially fine in didactic worlds made to make them look fine. 00:28:08 Phoodus: bloop: the point is that as soon as you're not using trivial closures anymore, you will be writing macros such as define-method and define-class to generate and manage them. Of course, compiling a new define-method, will update the class object/closure, and the change will affect existing instances/closures. 00:28:35 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:28:55 The question you have to ask, is whether you really need yet another object system. CL already proposes two of them: structures and clos, both with generic functions. 00:29:42 Not to mention it's quite easy to customize if you have special needs 00:32:12 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-84-90.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:32:45 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:02 CL is too good. 00:33:47 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.12] has joined #lisp 00:34:35 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:12 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:35:20 yeah, it should have more bondage and discipline 00:35:31 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:35:41 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:48 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:36:48 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:37:40 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.8.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38:35 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-71-146-156-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:08 xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.24] has joined #lisp 00:39:43 pjb: We are in agreement; don't confuse me as supporting LoL style. I'm just talking from experience of having been subjected to other people writing that way in commercial code 00:40:16 some people even use Java for commercial code 00:40:24 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-84-90.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:37 some people even use Java 00:40:39 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.245] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:40:49 people use Java 00:40:56 use Java 00:40:58 Java 00:41:19 Java people (doop de doop de do) Lisp people (ner nee ner nee ner) 00:42:14 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:44 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:34 bloop: LoL's usage of hashtables is really dumb. Just make defuns for each use instead of a table 00:48:27 I wasn't even aware LoL used hash tables per se. I only read the free online bit, but by that point he was only using COND on symbols 00:48:48 bloop: LoL's usage of COND on symbols is really dumb. Just make defuns for each use instead of a table :) 00:50:00 besides, you typically end up with a toplevel defun that just takes a closure object and shunts magic symbols to it anyway, so why not put the functionality straight in the toplevel function? 00:50:19 with a data object instead of a closure object? 00:50:44 antifuchs: looks like marc is interested in publishing the code now 00:50:44 well shunting magic symbols into the hash table is basically the naive object system's "inheriting" 00:51:57 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA221E3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:38 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:55:09 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:56:39 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:11 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58:35 mornfall [~mornfall@anna2.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 00:58:35 -!- 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timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:33 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:27:25 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:16 muhdick [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:41 -!- spiaggia` is now known as spiaggia 03:45:10 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-84-90.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:45:36 SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 03:45:41 -!- muhdick [~qle@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:16 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hgzawawnmgzivuvi] has joined #lisp 03:50:33 totalnoob [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has joined #lisp 03:51:55 -!- cesarbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:00 why do I have to use funcall to call a returned function? Can ((foo)) mean anything else? 03:52:29 cesarbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has joined #lisp 03:52:39 <_3b> that's the way the language is defined 03:52:57 so ((foo)) is just nonsense? 03:53:21 <_3b> the first element of a form being evaluated ghas different evaluation rules, and they don't include calling functions 03:53:33 <_3b> it is in CL, it would work in scheme 03:53:44 totalnoob: that returns the result of evaluating the result of evaluating the function #'foo 03:54:08 <_3b> (lambda ...) is the only list allowed as an operator in CL 03:54:13 -!- stw [~Steve@pool-98-109-5-156.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:54:19 scheme in general seems a lot more friendly to lambda-lovers... 03:54:21 <_3b> so you can do ((lambda (a) (1+ a)) 1) 03:55:02 _3b: I was actually trying to make a macro to replace lambda with 'fn' >.> 03:55:46 is it for performance reasons or is it just ancient style differences? 03:56:07 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 03:56:12 (that lambda is the only list that's allowed as an operator) 03:56:45 totalnoob: history. 03:56:48 <_3b> allowing lambda there is probably mostly for compatibility with one of the dialects CL was trying to unify 03:58:31 totalnoob: Using a different evaluation rule for the first element of a list makes it possible to use the same name for a function and a variable. For instance (defun ff (list) (list list)) 03:59:14 spiaggia: but non-atomic CARs could be treated differently. 03:59:33 Definitely. 04:00:40 I'd rather have 1 namespace anyway... uh... I think I'm gonna go play with Scheme now, thanks. 04:00:56 -!- totalnoob [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:01:28 OK, so once again I've spouted misconceived assumptions. Now that I've actually tested it, the answer is yes, you do need to use 'funcall. 04:02:36 Now I want to know why that's an illegal function call. I'll just skip over the part where I should already have connected those dots. 04:02:40 There's no good reason that ((foo)) shouldn't mean (funcall (foo)) 04:04:02 <_3b> closest i can think of to a good reason is that ((setf foo) ...) also seems like a reasonable function call 04:04:41 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:54 setf is a macro. 04:04:57 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:05:19 But, yeah. 04:05:27 <_3b> but (setf foo) is the name of a function 04:07:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 04:07:58 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.213] has joined #lisp 04:07:58 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.213] has quit [Changing host] 04:07:58 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:08:01 _3b: I don't see the issue. If there's any reason, it's backward compatibility. 04:08:11 IIRC, the standard explicitly allows for such extensions. 04:08:41 <_3b> pkhuong: like i said 'closest' not actual good reason :) 04:09:43 <_3b> just arguing that allowing all function names in operator position would not be unreasonable 04:10:06 <_3b> but would conflict with allowing evaluation of general lists in operator position 04:10:19 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:11:59 *_3b* would probably pick the general case over just function names if i had to choose 04:14:18 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:47 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:18:40 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 04:19:05 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:27 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:19:38 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:00 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:15 Anyone know of any algorithms to recognize text in video? 04:22:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 04:22:43 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 04:24:16 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:26:19 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:29:21 -!- naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-203-105.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-99-66-213-189.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:30:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hgzawawnmgzivuvi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:39 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 04:33:47 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:17 naryl: use opticl :) 04:34:20 SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 04:35:53 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 04:38:48 naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-203-105.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:39:41 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:37 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:34 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:50 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 04:45:50 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 04:45:50 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:46:52 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Client Quit] 04:48:19 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:50 SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 04:52:25 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:58 SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 04:53:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pwphjmahkwlngqio] has joined #lisp 04:56:39 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:11 SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.10] has joined #lisp 04:57:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:16 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:14 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:02:30 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 05:02:48 -!- SidH_ [~SidH_@203.101.61.10] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 05:07:08 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:12:41 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 05:16:55 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:19:34 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:49 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:56 nostoi [~nostoi@16.Red-79-157-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:14 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA28422.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:31:41 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-99-39-232-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:45 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tpxjfxraglrzhedh] has joined #lisp 05:34:13 _3b: How i can get rid of a window after glut:display-window returns? 05:34:25 glut:close doesn't seem to do it 05:34:30 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:35:22 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@16.Red-79-157-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:42:06 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:42:22 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 05:42:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:43:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:43:39 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 05:44:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:47:01 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:47 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 05:53:11 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:54:14 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:31 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:59:25 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:59:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:01:47 Vutral [AX5HCrEucv@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:01 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:05:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:05:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:07:10 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:07:27 arun__ [~arun@70.94.213.26] has joined #lisp 06:08:17 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:11:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:30 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:12:14 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 06:13:12 real_gedO [~gedO@wlan1-gw.ktu.lt] has joined #lisp 06:13:28 Hello. Can someone help me with autolisp?? 06:14:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 06:14:35 -!- real_gedO [~gedO@wlan1-gw.ktu.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 06:16:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:16:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:17:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:25 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:17:57 -!- arun__ [~arun@70.94.213.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:19:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 06:19:52 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:21:46 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Client Quit] 06:21:58 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 06:25:43 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Client Quit] 06:25:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 06:28:19 -!- benny [~benny@i577A358B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:33:46 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:33:47 <_3b> drdo: you might need to call glut:main-loop by hand if you exited display-window without closing the window 06:34:12 benny [~benny@i577A38DB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:35:10 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:35:36 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:43:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:45:05 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:45:08 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 06:45:33 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:43 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.165] has joined #lisp 06:46:51 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:48:03 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:50:35 -!- rme_ [~rme@pool-70-104-127-9.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme_] 06:53:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-171.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:58:16 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58:32 -!- kiuma_ is now known as kiuma 07:02:55 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.125] has joined #lisp 07:04:16 splittist [~splittist@120-183.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:05:35 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-31-47.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:59 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:08:04 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-145-10.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:12:19 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:12:48 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:12:48 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 07:18:27 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:19:38 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:26:33 -!- splittist [~splittist@120-183.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 07:27:05 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:27:44 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:44 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:27:44 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 07:29:44 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 07:29:50 slyrus_: I don't believe I managed to miss it. Thanks. 07:30:43 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:31:43 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-acquyvloysgavhlk] has joined #lisp 07:32:18 _zoro_ [~chatzilla@rd.egt-bg.com] has joined #lisp 07:34:39 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:27 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.125] has joined #lisp 07:36:24 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:20 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-56-153.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 splittist [~splittist@120-183.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:42:22 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:42:33 morning 07:42:50 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:43:53 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-63-201.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:11 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-evmmdagtwezqvygz] has left #lisp 07:52:17 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-evmmdagtwezqvygz] has joined #lisp 07:58:23 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:01:47 stis [~stis@host-90-235-42-55.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:24 cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-35.pdc.kth.se] has joined #lisp 08:04:36 HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:08:22 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:08:37 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:10:03 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 08:12:57 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:37 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 08:20:49 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-frzsbgubnnndxiby] has joined #lisp 08:23:06 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:25:04 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 08:27:25 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754aa1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:59 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:30:18 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:30:28 good morning 08:30:31 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:32:41 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:45 hi 08:36:44 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:36:45 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:47 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:39:08 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:40:22 enupten [~neptune@117.192.68.0] has joined #lisp 08:42:13 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.68.0] has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:47 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:46:57 cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:19 -!- xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:50:19 billitch [~billitch@78.251.156.214] has joined #lisp 08:50:35 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 08:55:12 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 08:56:26 -!- _zoro_ [~chatzilla@rd.egt-bg.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Iceweasel 3.5.16/20110302220840]] 08:57:04 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 08:57:51 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-220-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:58:07 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-frzsbgubnnndxiby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:59:12 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:14 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 09:03:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:05:55 bjoern1 [~bjoern@46.115.2.62] has joined #lisp 09:07:37 -!- drforr is now known as DrForr 09:07:41 Xach: would there be any quick test suite I could run for you to allow inclusion of csql-oracle in QL 09:10:22 Guthur: Tell me how to get an oracle client environment set up on Ubuntu 10.04. That's what's holding up the build on my end. 09:10:58 https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/106 09:11:46 Xach: I'm only using it on a Win32 env at the moment, if I can dig up some knowledge around here i'll let you know 09:12:04 but I imagine it is not too different 09:12:20 The easy option is to place a database in the TNS file 09:12:36 then you can refer to that by SID 09:13:23 the TNS file is in network/ADMIN 09:13:35 that is the windows setup at least 09:13:59 Looks impossibly complicated... http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=1115155 09:14:25 hehe yeah that does look a little involved 09:15:07 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-depojnzmsccliqoy] has joined #lisp 09:16:56 I gave it a quick try but I didn't have a lot of time 09:20:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:21:24 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:21:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 09:22:41 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-220-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:34 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-220-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:28:59 there are debian packages for the client 09:29:06 I've never tried them on ubuntu though 09:29:25 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754aa1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:16 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-149-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:36 (read-from-string "4,000,000") => (values 4 1), why? 09:34:10 , is a terminating macro-character 09:34:47 ah, yes indeed, never though of that 09:35:17 is there any available to help parsing such numbers 09:35:40 anything* 09:36:18 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-l10n/ 09:36:31 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:36:40 or you can make your own custom readtable 09:36:49 sweet, cheers nikodemus 09:36:56 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 09:37:15 I'd like to lazy in this regard, short on dev time for this 09:37:18 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:24 umm strange, Quickloading that killed my lisp 09:39:44 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 09:39:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@112.149.169.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:14 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:32 ah actually it seems to possibly be a slime issue 09:40:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:54 pressing TAB on (cl-l10n:) kills my lisp 09:41:01 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:41:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:29 do you have utf-8 set up right for slime and emacs? 09:41:48 probably not, this is windows 09:41:58 it uses that windows specific format 09:42:25 (set-language-environment "UTF-8") (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 09:42:32 in your .emacs 09:42:40 i *think* that's sufficient 09:43:19 need, anything specific for SBCL 09:43:34 unintentional comma 09:44:20 i don't think so, but i rarely run on windows these days, so i'm not 100% certain 09:44:36 on windows it defaults to :CP1252 09:44:49 even if you have that in your .emacs? 09:45:18 the console external format shouldn't matter really. it's the slime-net-coding thing that is important 09:45:20 that's sb-impl::*default-external-format* 09:45:49 put those in your .emacs, restart emacs, see if problem goes away 09:46:12 yep, no crash now 09:46:16 cheers nikodemus 09:50:10 umm, cl-l10n:parse-number doesn't seem to be in the package 09:50:15 but it is in the API docs 09:50:58 dunno what's the issue. i don't use cl-l10n so i can't help you there 09:51:00 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:57:09 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:57:47 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-57-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:59:42 pnq [~nick@ACA441A1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:14 -!- cesarbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 10:06:23 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:39 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-42-55.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:00 stis [~stis@host-78-79-223-40.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:17 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:18:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:21:20 has anyone used this cl-l10n before 10:22:50 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:06 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:26:33 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:26:50 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:06 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:27:23 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:28:08 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:28:26 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:28:54 Guther: depending on what you need, maybe (defun parse-decimal (x) (declare (string x)) (values (parse-integer (remove #\, x)))) is sufficient? 10:29:11 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:07 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.44.185] has joined #lisp 10:31:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:32:32 add^_ [~add^_^@h215n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:33:59 I think i see the issue 10:34:09 What's in QL does not seem to be the latest 10:34:27 which is odd because the latest is 6 years old 10:35:23 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.121.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:26 guther: quicklisp uses the version from darcs 10:36:51 cl-l10n just hasn't apparently updated its webpage 10:37:44 Demosthenes [~demo@m325736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:13 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA441A1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:39:35 shame, I have it working now 10:39:44 thanks for the input 10:39:54 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:39:54 I don't like leaving QL though, hehe 10:40:19 I like my lisp world to be totaly Quicklisp'able 10:44:41 Xach: for oracle under ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Oracle10g 10:44:41 http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/linux/install/xe-on-kubuntu.html 10:44:41 http://mediakey.dk/~cc/ubuntu-howto-install-oracle/ 10:44:41 10:44:49 you'll also need $ sudo /etc/init.d/oracle-xe configure 10:45:01 and set up tnsnames.ora 10:45:44 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:47:03 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:50:52 thanks 10:52:04 hlavaty: that oracle.com link does not work for me. does it work for you? 10:54:29 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:12 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:00:12 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:34 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:01:08 not working here either 11:02:30 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 11:02:56 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:03:02 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:03:17 is there any nice article(s) on why Lisps have not gained more users in the 'mainstream' 11:03:30 my boss is asking me this question 11:03:53 Guthur: I don't know of any nice articles on that topic. 11:03:54 he is really impressed with how few lines of code it takes to do some things 11:04:10 and wonders why it's not more popular 11:04:36 Quality and popularity are not always correlated. 11:05:01 stis_ [~stis@host-95-193-107-104.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.165] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 11:05:12 I thinking of mentioning the prevalence of the curly bracket, and possibly fallout from the AI industry bust 11:05:59 -!- stis [~stis@host-78-79-223-40.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:00 Why are more people listening to Bieber than Mozart at this moment? 11:06:04 I think I would probably express it more generally than that 11:06:47 that people are very influenced by what other people do, so it is very easy for network effects to dominate over merit for a large number of choices 11:07:09 Consensus scales better than intelligence -- which is why we have royalty. 11:07:17 herd mentality 11:07:44 Guthur: well, despite Western worldview, we are herd animals... 11:09:50 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:10:07 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 11:10:42 "You are all individuals" - "Yes, we are!" - "No, I'm not" 11:12:05 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-95-193-107-104.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:13:11 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m325736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:14:21 Demosthenes [~demo@m3a5736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:33 ehu [~ehuels@109.36.234.66] has joined #lisp 11:16:37 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:33 Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has joined #lisp 11:20:39 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 11:23:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.36.234.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:25:39 HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:27:13 kaelol [~b@c-99cfe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:32:26 defadvice for sbcl! how about it, internet? 11:34:55 Xach: like LW's? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw445/LWRM/html/lwref-268.htm 11:37:06 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:37:25 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 11:37:51 Like whatever one is best, except slightly better 11:38:39 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:38:55 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 11:39:03 The context: I want to build the quicklisp world but intercept all calls to sb-alien:load-shared-object and record what shared objects are loaded, and use that to build an index of debian packages that must be loaded to load a given system successfully. 11:39:19 I know how to do that, it just seems like defadvice or similar would make it easier. 11:39:54 What is the internet for if not to make my tasks easier? 11:40:49 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:40:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:35 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.125] has joined #lisp 11:41:41 Xach: just looking at what is loaded at the end (via /proc/self/map) isn't sufficient? 11:41:52 Can (trace) output be captured somehow? 11:41:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pwphjmahkwlngqio] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42:15 You could also set LD_DEBUG _before_ starting sbcl ... 11:43:53 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:15 My life would be way easier if you wrote the code for me! 11:47:29 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:47:48 Xach: there must be one already published on cll. In anycase it's not harder than memoize. 11:53:38 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-131.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:55 Guthur: there are whole books written about why lisp is not more popular. For example http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/2756311030/ref=oss_product 11:59:49 Lisp is not popular because if you ask for help on usenet, some moron will give you code that deletes all your files. 12:00:13 HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 Good thing that I'm on IRC ;-) 12:00:53 You never know when he'll strike again! 12:02:22 greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:02:40 But if he's on Usenet ... why should he come here? 12:02:41 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:02:50 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:03:18 He goes wherever lispers go, giving them possibly malicious code and ugly URLs! 12:03:57 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 12:04:12 Well, but we here don't go anywhere, so we should be safe, right? We're just sitting here ... unobtrusive, quiet ... 12:04:22 flip214: I guess the context of the joke is too old. Our own treasure pjb once posted code that deleted all files on the system in response to a newbie question. His article is still cited when people complain about lispers. 12:04:39 When was that? 12:04:45 Xach: Jesus came 2000 years ago so that you don't need a scapegoat anymore... 12:05:04 And my code wouldn't have deleted all files in the system, only the user's files. 12:05:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:44 flip214: you weren't born yet :-) 12:05:48 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:06 pjb: how would you know? 12:06:19 Because it was a very long time ago. 12:07:17 Can't be that long - 1982 Baccalauréat Mathématiques 12:07:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:31 So I think you're wrong there ... 12:07:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:59 Well, I guess for Xach it was yesterday. 12:08:28 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:59 The first time I got paid for coding was 1986 ... so there seems to be some overlap in our lifetimes. 12:09:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 12:13:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:39 flip214: <87zmgn327x.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> 12:14:54 Thu, 08 Jun 2006 20:57:06 +0200 - how time flies! 12:15:06 found it, thanks 12:15:08 we can have a 5th anniversary party soon 12:15:41 So, I think we can safely conclude that I've already been born then. 12:15:59 Sadly I haven't been on #lisp then ... 12:16:12 Of course amplifying this will not bring more newbies. 12:16:44 I wonder who's responsible, the one who originated the message, or the one who keeps repeating it at each opportunity? 12:16:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:20 pjb: Your admirable record since then will soon push the incident out of memory. I'd give it 5 to 10 more years. 12:17:21 ah, found it 12:17:31 (mapcar (...) (directory)) ;-) 12:17:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 12:19:28 Well, google had only one remaining hit for the Mail-ID ... so there's only a little more to do to make that vanish from known history 12:21:03 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-104-125-121.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:39 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.44] has joined #lisp 12:28:05 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:28:10 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:50 jorgeu [~jorgeu@190.74.50.207] has joined #lisp 12:30:18 'morning 12:30:31 good morning from Venezuela 12:30:45 rainy mourning at Maracaibo 12:30:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@203.110.238.16] has joined #lisp 12:31:45 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@203.110.238.16] has left #lisp 12:32:48 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 12:32:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:33:55 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:33:59 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:33 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-24-147-92-217.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:47 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:38:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:38:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:39:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:02 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 12:41:22 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 12:41:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:41:22 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:42:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:43:21 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:43:34 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m3a5736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:43:43 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 12:47:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754aa1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 hey Xach 12:48:22 hi tcr1 12:48:35 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:49:19 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440299.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51:05 Xach: the buildapp patch wfm 12:51:13 Hooray! Thanks for the feedback. 12:51:41 hi tcr1 12:51:47 hi :-) 12:51:54 do you have any input on my slime-indentation plans? 12:52:12 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 12:52:53 i've not been reading any mailing list for the last past few month 12:52:59 is it on slime-devel? 12:53:03 yep 12:53:20 "future of slime-indentation" or something like that is the subject 12:54:09 https://github.com/nikodemus/Slime/commits/slime-indentation/ has the current stuff not yet in CVS 12:54:49 yeah go for it 12:55:36 there were a couple more annoyances with slime-indentation but I forgot about them 12:55:54 Might have been how *CASE is indented 12:56:43 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:59:42 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:00:00 ok, cool 13:00:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:03 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:02:50 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-acquyvloysgavhlk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:51 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-yshbwqblzgmwjrzz] has joined #lisp 13:07:09 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:22 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:09:24 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.44.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:17 Joreji [~thomas@73-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:12:33 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:12:51 Xach: Would you mind informing when you release the new version of buildapp? 13:16:01 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:19 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:15 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:33 Xach: sorry the oracle link doesnt work for me either anymore :-( the other links should be enough though 13:21:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:22:02 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440299.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:22:20 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:22:44 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 13:27:05 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li94-153.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:27:05 Joreji [~thomas@73-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:27:27 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:32:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 13:33:28 tcr: It is released 13:33:35 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8C338.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:44 tcr: don't you follow me on twitter? :~( 13:34:02 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:36:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:36:51 All my tweets are 100% informative and useful. 13:37:06 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:20 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 13:38:10 I already feel trendy that I picked up facebook since this year 13:38:13 Xach, tcr: http://imgur.com/Ibynm 13:39:26 -!- xian [xian@we-are-the-b.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39:55 hahaha 13:44:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:48 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 13:45:04 was that produced by some xachware? 13:45:19 yeah, in 30 seconds 13:45:44 google search "y u no", copy image link, add text in wigflip, post to imgur 13:46:12 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8E0F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:25 -!- cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:55 Xach makes great toys. 13:52:07 tools, too, but his toys in particular are entertaining. :) 13:52:33 http://vlaskovits.com/2011/05/i-see-dead-startups/ has a graphic from one of my lisp toys...i was surprised to see it out of the blue 13:55:25 i'm using CLSQL to execute a query, one field has for example 80.80, but always returns 80 13:55:49 Xach: ... captcha before seeing the site? If it wasn't a link from you, I'd never go through that 13:55:53 Guthur: did you notice: Guthur: there are whole books written about why lisp is not more popular. For 13:55:53 example http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/2756311030/ref=oss_product 13:56:45 anyone noticed this automatic rounding before 13:56:54 not sure how I turn it off 13:57:08 even when I ask for strings it is rounded 13:57:15 Guthur: most RDBMS are statically typed. 13:57:30 the field has a type of NUMBER 13:57:32 If you store 80.80 in a column defined as holding an integer, then it's rounded. 13:57:47 And what does NUMBER mean for this database? 13:58:00 -!- cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-35.pdc.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:58:19 not sure to be honest, but via SQL Developer (oracle) it shows the correct 80.80 13:58:26 it's an oracle db 13:58:53 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:57 Number should have 2 decimal places 13:58:59 Perhaps you should trace the travel of yor data from the DB to your code. 13:59:15 decimal(8,2) would have 2 decimal places. number, I don't know. 13:59:26 according to here http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14220/datatype.htm#i16209 14:00:16 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:01:50 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.78.12] has joined #lisp 14:01:54 sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:32 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 14:07:59 cool, adding TRUNC(field_name,2) in the select solves the issue 14:08:13 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:18 p_l|backup: i didn't get one, weird. wouldn't have linked if i knew about it. 14:09:37 Xach: some weird ass thing about my computer being possibly infected 14:09:54 *Xach* still doesn't get one with Incognito Chrome 14:10:18 p_l|backup: no captcha from here, either. 14:10:20 p_l|backup: nah, i also got it. i guess it's because i'm behind a NAT in the company, and there are tons of winblows computers here, too 14:10:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.78.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:51 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.78.12] has joined #lisp 14:10:54 I wouldn't be surprised if it's a question of not having a public IP 14:10:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-131.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:07 yeah, could be that, too. 14:12:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A8A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:17 cesarbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has joined #lisp 14:12:42 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:13:03 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:13:30 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-214-226.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:14:21 morning 14:14:48 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:43 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:07 hi 14:18:19 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:24 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Quit: 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14:57:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-215-68.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:00 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:01:44 pnq [~nick@ACA21D21.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:15 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:33 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:39 Areil [~user@113.172.38.123] has joined #lisp 15:05:29 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 15:08:38 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has left #lisp 15:09:32 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:17 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:11:32 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 15:12:20 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:14:06 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:14:20 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:06 pyrony [~epic@70-0-211-190.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:34 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-45-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:50 gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:32 Xach: About defadvice, didn't sbcl get Gerd's fwrappers? I think they're like defadvice. 15:22:52 Xach: http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-know.html ; I'm not alone. 15:23:06 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-205-100.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 -!- gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 15:23:46 rtoym: I don't think so. 15:23:49 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:24:29 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest75295 15:25:01 -!- Guest75295 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:26:55 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:57 -!- bjoern1 [~bjoern@46.115.2.62] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:22 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:29:34 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 15:29:36 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:30:00 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attilalendvai 15:30:02 nikodemus: you around? 15:31:16 -!- attilalendvai [~ati@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754aa1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:35 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:00 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:28 silenius [~silenus@p54947614.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:49 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:38:58 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-yshbwqblzgmwjrzz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-171.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-171.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:13 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-171.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:17 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-171.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:18 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-156-179.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:45:17 udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:45:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:45:56 reb`: somewhat 15:46:16 -!- HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:59 I was compiling code yesterday with ASDF and got a backtrace that mentioned run-program and streams ... 15:48:15 ... using a very recent sbcl. 15:49:09 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:13 orivej [~orivej@host-46-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 15:50:37 -!- pyrony [~epic@70-0-211-190.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:52 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:42 more recent than 1.0.48? 15:54:11 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:55:46 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-98-65-170-159.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 and what was the error? 15:59:50 yes ... redoing now ... 16:02:40 Don't know how to copy to stream of element-type T 16:03:37 SB-EXT:RUN-PROGRAM calls SB-IMPL::GET-DESCRIPTOR-FOR calls SB-IMPL::COPY-DESCRIPTOR-TO-STREAM 16:03:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-184.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:03:52 what's the stream in question 16:03:55 ? 16:04:07 T is a nonsense element type for a stream 16:04:33 (previously it didn't check at all, just assume everything was a character stream) 16:04:55 It's a broadcase stream with external format :default. 16:05:30 hm 16:05:36 s/broadcase/broadcast 16:06:54 ok, i see the issue 16:07:45 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Quit: ..] 16:10:15 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:09 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:11:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:11:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:11:45 -!- cesarbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:12:04 onizu [~tinyirc@121.245.134.21] has joined #lisp 16:12:09 hello all 16:12:12 I just checked ... (stream-element-type the-stream) ==> T 16:12:26 i am looking for a lisp irc client, does anyone know of it? 16:12:44 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:13:00 onizu: http://cliki.net knows it. 16:13:19 i went there 16:13:32 it tells of a weirdirc, but it has no files on the site 16:13:44 http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=irc 16:15:27 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:16:05 how is a quick way to know if a list contains nils explicitly like: (member nil '(3 nil)) ? 16:16:46 is ok? 16:17:03 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 16:17:38 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:41 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:19:04 minion: tell onizu about beirc 16:19:05 onizu: have a look at beirc: beirc is a CLIM IRC client Application using the cl-irc library as a backend, initially written by Gilbert Baumann, now maintained by Dave Murray and others. http://www.cliki.net/beirc 16:19:50 francogrex: If you need for it to be quick, you might want to use :test #'eq. 16:20:24 i came across beirc as well, but thanks 16:20:52 francogrex: (defun contains-nil (dd) (cond ((null dd) f) ((eq car(dd) nil) t) (t (contains-nil (cdr dd))))) 16:21:08 onizu: I used beirc for a while, and think it's a pretty great client 16:21:26 jorgeu: You can't be serious! 16:21:46 jorgeu: try position on (-: 16:21:57 syntax error hehehehehe 16:22:18 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-152-232-129.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:43 (defun contains-nil (dd) (cond ((null dd) nil) ((eq (car dd) nil) t) (t (contains-nil (cdr dd))))) 16:22:43 jorgeu: Several actually, plus bad indentation, plus using recursion on a list. 16:22:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-156-179.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:47 this do work 16:22:51 hehehehe 16:22:58 I'm just learning 16:23:15 love recursion :P 16:23:23 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-156-179.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:23:28 stacks don't (-: 16:23:40 hehehehehe 16:24:07 then you get a stackoverflow and ask about how to solve it at stackoverflow.com 16:24:10 hehehehehehe 16:24:21 antifuchs ok 16:24:34 onizu: it may have bitrotted a bit - hope it's not too bad right now (: 16:24:45 bitrotted meaning? 16:25:17 onizu: changes in servers might introduce new control messages that it can't handle 16:25:42 i c 16:25:43 or you might start using it in a way that I didn't, and it might break. 16:25:48 but it should be fairly stable (: 16:25:52 (I hope!) 16:26:08 hm, can't find files for windows 16:26:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:28:14 -!- greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:03 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:24 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 oh by the way, does anyone of you know AutoLisp? 16:29:31 onizu: beirc requires mcclim, which in turn requires X11. it might be possible to get it to work on windows, but I don't think it'll be easy. 16:29:44 francogrex: beach antifuchs this one: (defun contains-nil(dd) (let (found ddt) (setf ddt dd) (setf found nil) (dotimes (i (length dd) found) (setf found (or found (eq (car ddt) nil))) (setf ddt (cdr ddt))))) 16:29:49 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:58 antifuchs nevermind 16:30:04 jorgeu: try dolist! 16:30:22 antifuchs: thanks... still don't know it 16:30:23 Try SOME? 16:30:29 i'm currently using a very basic irc-client (tinyirc.net) and it's neat :) 16:30:32 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-39-232-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:30:32 or position (-: 16:30:49 antifuchs: will study it 16:30:52 thanks 16:31:05 jorgeu: cool stuff. are you using a book to learn? (: 16:31:19 if not, I would like to recommend Land of Lisp or Practical Common Lisp 16:31:33 they both are very good guides (and practical common lisp is available for free) 16:31:44 in sbcl (when (member nil list) t) will be nice and fast, and use EQ for comparison 16:31:45 antifuchs: online information. It is very hard to find neutral common lisp information 16:31:54 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:03 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-156-179.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:32:07 jorgeu: yeah. most information you will find easily is very very old and bad. 16:32:21 jorgeu: practical common lisp is the best guide out there (and it's free) 16:32:26 minion: tell jorgeu about pcl-book 16:32:27 jorgeu: direct your attention towards pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:32:45 AutoLISP anybody? 16:33:18 *jorgeu* is typing in the terminal "$ wget -m -np http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/" to get it all!! :P 16:33:20 onizu: probably not here. 16:33:20 ehu, memo from rtoym: trac.new.common-lisp.net appears to be most working for oct. But I can't login. 16:33:20 ehu, memo from rtoym: Also, would it be possible to upgrade trac to 0.12 or 0.13? 0.11 is no longer actively supported. 16:33:50 hm 16:33:57 beach: ok 16:34:09 rtoym: log into new.common-lisp.net or into trac? 16:34:19 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:34:57 yeah! 16:35:06 dmiles [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:28 thanks antifuchs nikodemus minion mirrored pcl-book 16:35:44 xach: any particular reason why this lib is not in QL https://github.com/OdonataResearchLLC/floating-point 16:36:03 Guthur: Usually the answer is "Nobody asked for it" 16:36:20 Ok, could I be so bold... 16:36:38 -!- Vutral [AX5HCrEucv@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:02 PCL is too old. Try Land Of Lisp. 16:37:04 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-246-168.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:37:08 Guthur: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues - could you add an issue there so I don't forget? 16:37:09 now I haven't found a CL implementation were stay. CLISP is very friendly but SBCL look more eficient. GCL isn't ANSI compliant but also promises a good performance. So, how to choose 16:37:27 jorgeu: don't. 16:37:31 Why do you want to choose? 16:37:45 Write your programs in conforming Common Lisp, so they can run on all the implementations. 16:38:19 well, right now feels very confortable using CLISP but threading features looks good on SBCL 16:38:28 Xach: done 16:38:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:49 Guthur: thanks. 16:39:11 jorgeu: you can compile clisp with threading enabled. 16:39:14 pjb: do you have a portable implementation of LOOP? 16:39:17 It's beta, but still. 16:39:28 Xach: why do you ask that? 16:39:41 pjb: ok will look at it 16:40:05 pjb: I'd like to identify extended loop bugs in projects while still using SBCL. 16:40:10 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 pjb: I figured I could drop in a replacement for CL:LOOP and try that. 16:40:48 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.54] has joined #lisp 16:41:03 Xach: there's a LOOP implementation in ailab-repository. You can fetch the sources of clisp. And perhaps sicl already has it's loop completed? 16:41:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:41:57 pjb: beach suggested it is not ready 16:42:00 *jorgeu* is going to lunch 16:42:03 -!- jorgeu [~jorgeu@190.74.50.207] has quit [Quit: jorgeu] 16:42:19 Xach: then your best bet is to have a look at the LOOP in clisp. 16:42:34 AFAI, all the other implementations use forks of the same LOOP code. 16:42:49 +K 16:42:49 HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:43:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:11 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:46 ;; Der eigentliche Macro: 16:48:02 CMU and SBCL use a derivative of the one on AI cds 16:49:10 (I think) 16:49:11 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:17 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:23 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:51:18 p_l|backup: if you mean the MIT loop, yes 16:51:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:51:53 mit der loopenkonstrukt 16:52:40 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:53:12 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:12 -!- splittist [~splittist@120-183.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:44 pnq1 [~nick@ACA2838F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:12 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21D21.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:58:25 cesarbp [~cesarbp@189.139.219.67] has joined #lisp 16:58:26 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 17:00:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:03:08 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:03:47 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:06:08 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:06:26 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:06:47 Bronsa [~brace@host120-178-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 reb`: fixed in cvs 17:10:45 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:12:13 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:38 limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.51] has joined #lisp 17:15:11 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:22:45 -!- 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18:42:41 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:44:23 jmbr [~jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:44:52 daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #lisp 18:45:34 what is a metaobject protocol? I have looked up the wikipedia entry and it defines it as "an interpreter of the semantics of a program" 18:45:55 does the REPL provide a metaobject protocol? 18:46:19 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-24-21-133-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:46:25 from what I understand this is the case, but unfortunately the wikipedia aritcle does not provide any concrete examples 18:46:48 The MOP is a non-standard part of the Common Lisp Object System (CLOS) that allows programmers to extend the object system 18:46:52 looks like you're confused 18:47:09 ah 18:47:12 yes 18:47:24 The best definition I've seen was in Gregor Kiczales (sp) "The Art of the Metaobject Protocol" 18:47:28 Which I think is out of print 18:48:08 Amazon still has it: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Metabobject-Protocol-Gregor-Kiczales/dp/0262610744 18:48:09 billstclair: Nope. 18:48:33 nyef is alastair, right? 18:48:39 Gregor Kiczales 18:48:39 yes 18:48:42 "extend the object system" - by creating new objects/classes? 18:48:45 Wow. I spelled it right 18:48:54 By creating new metaclasses 18:49:04 stassats: thanks. 18:49:07 The class of a class is called a metaclass 18:49:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:24 That allows you to modify how classes behove 18:49:26 is this similar to the idea of extends in Java? 18:49:27 behave 18:49:32 No. 18:49:41 That's regular inheritance 18:50:02 -!- HET2 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:09 HET3 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:50:14 protocol is a set of arrangements designed to complete a particular task, so MetaObject protocol is a protocol which allows you to customize the behaviour the object system itself, hence "meta" 18:50:56 xan_ [~xan@adsl-76-254-70-213.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:12 Unfortunately, Gregor's book was not yet in print when Gail Zacharias and I did CLOS for Macintosh Common Lisp, so it was done without most of the MOP. 18:51:20 Any nobody has completed it since way back then 18:51:59 daedra: you can, for example, change how the object is stored in memory 18:53:41 Elephant uses the MOP to create persistent CLOS objects 18:54:09 GBBopen uses the MOP to provide automatic indexing 18:54:25 it's becoming more clear (I hope) 18:54:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-114-104.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:55:09 but I'd rather play around with it than try tieing this stuff (probably wrongly) to the few things I already know 18:56:16 There is a portable MOP library that provides most of the MOP for many lisp implementations. 18:56:50 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:57:01 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:43 pjb, sorry I didn't pick on your book recommendation earlier 18:58:53 it has been a hectic day 18:58:55 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 18:58:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 18:58:55 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:59:27 though, my french does not stretch much beyond bonjour 18:59:42 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-32-25.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:05 billstclair: I'll look into that. Thanks :) 19:00:12 so, you'll have a reason to improve it 19:00:12 closer-mop is the one I've used the most (via other systems that use it). Though I see that Quicklisp knows about moptilities 19:00:14 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-32-25.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:01:07 Most programmers don't need the MOP 19:01:13 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.149] has joined #lisp 19:01:27 But it's mighty convenient if you do need it 19:01:31 Would be possible to use MOP to dynamically change the dispatch for print-object 19:01:47 Guthur: what do you mean? 19:02:08 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0078.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:16 it's only a half baked idea, and it may not be possible... 19:02:48 sometimes I want to print using normal format, but others I may want to print in a specialized form, such as XML for example 19:03:04 daedra: the book is recommended though 19:03:25 others/other times 19:03:36 look also for mopintro.ps, which shows a simple example of using MOP to make persistence layer for classes 19:04:07 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-184.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:04:42 part of my inspiration is interface passing 19:04:57 have you looked at contextl? 19:05:12 nope 19:06:45 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:06:52 -!- HET3 [~diman@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:56 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:07:11 looks interesting, I'm a little burnt out at the moment, it has been a long day 19:07:42 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-28.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:23 Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 19:11:59 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:49 I don't suppose anyone has a SIRDS library for CL kicking around? 19:14:00 SIRDS? 19:14:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIRDS 19:15:40 Xach: if you look at enough code it has the same effect ;) 19:23:22 -!- Night-Hacks [~amir@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:23:48 snearch [~snearch@f053008200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:09 jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-25-24.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:26:53 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:26:59 lanthan [~ze@p54B7E969.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-114-104.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:42 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7E969.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:29:25 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:48 lanthan [~ze@p54B7E969.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:41 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:31:59 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 19:32:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:35:43 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:36:06 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-98-65-170-159.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:11 RiaanFV [~R1aanFV@41-132-52-80.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:41:35 -!- superflit [~superflit@97-122-97-231.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:43:09 rme__ [~rme@pool-70-105-81-2.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 19:45:06 -!- rme_ [~rme@pool-70-104-125-121.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:15 -!- RiaanFV [~R1aanFV@41-132-52-80.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:07 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-152-232-129.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:02 RiaanFV [~R1aanFV@41-132-52-80.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:51:04 argiopeweb [~elliot@184.91.74.59] has joined #lisp 19:52:19 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:56:50 fe[nl]ix: you're a cffi maintainer, right? did you see http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2011/05/orphaned-projects-on-common-lispnet.html? 19:57:50 stis [~stis@host-90-235-156-80.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:35 that's weird 19:58:41 aah 19:59:28 its creator must have been james bielman 19:59:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:51 -!- udzinari` [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit:     ] 20:00:13 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:35 his domain expired, apparently 20:01:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:02:54 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:29 antifuchs: thanks 20:04:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:09:25 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:12:10 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:12:36 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:25 -!- RiaanFV [~R1aanFV@41-132-52-80.dsl.mweb.co.za] has left #lisp 20:15:13 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:15:51 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:17:51 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-1-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:21:57 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h215n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:23:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:23:21 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.44.180] has joined #lisp 20:25:26 fogus` [~fogus@pool-96-255-210-172.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:30 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:35 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:23 hmm... if I'd like to flip the bits in a number... would it be convenient to convert it into a bit vector first? 20:26:44 'cause I can't seem to find the applicable function. 20:26:46 no 20:27:01 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:14 see lognot 20:28:09 dboswell [~user@ip65-46-56-98.z56-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:43 (there's no easy way to convert integers to bit vectors, or vice-versa) 20:28:54 Right... but the lognot of 0 is -1. Shouldn't it be 0 if it were in two's complement form? 20:29:16 _schulte_ [~Eric@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:29:41 ... em, nope, sorry about that. 20:30:27 Thanks rme__ 20:30:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:30:53 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-220-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:32:11 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host120-178-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:33:12 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:35:17 jtza8_: also, check ldb/dpb (-: 20:35:54 jtza8_: lets you easily alter/read single parts of a number; also, see ldb-test 20:36:30 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:43 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 20:37:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:41:12 ssacc [~sa@188-195-92-99-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.156.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:19 when i get thrown into the debugger (in sbcl) i find it difficult to see what actually caused the error 20:43:56 i can usually see in which function the error occured, but often that's not enough 20:44:07 do you use slime? 20:44:11 yep 20:44:30 do you have debugging enabled? 20:44:42 debug is set to 3 20:45:06 and pressing v on the frame doesn't show what you want to see? 20:45:47 ooh, it does indeed highlight a place in the code 20:46:29 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@31.141.80.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:18 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-204-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:49 limetree: also, pressing RET on the frame should tell you the actual values that were in place when the failure occurred 20:51:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-76-254-70-213.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:46 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-170-96.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:10 hello everyone! is it possible to use macros for defining infix operators? i.e. '(3 + 2)' instead of '(_ 3 + 2)' like here http://paste.lisp.org/display/121968 ? 20:59:47 no 20:59:50 ssacc: there's the #i reader macro that transforms infix arithmetic to prefix 20:59:54 check out cliki 21:00:23 ssacc: http://cliki.net/infix 21:00:41 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-165-191.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:59 antifuchs: yeah, 'On Lisp' talks much about this feature... 21:01:01 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:01:10 with a lot of complex/boring examples... 21:01:13 which tells you a lot about "on lisp" (; 21:01:32 antifuchs: not recommended by you? 21:02:08 there's a bunch of cool stuff in there, but overall I'm not a fan of graham's style 21:03:35 so implementing a simple C like language as embeded language using macros is not a good idea? 21:03:58 never said it's not a good idea 21:04:02 or that it is (: 21:04:29 I just can't think of a use case for me (: 21:04:59 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 21:05:07 well, i'm just wondering whether it is possible... 21:05:11 antifuchs: what about "keeping other people from your code"? 21:05:14 i'm not quite sure yet 21:05:21 oh yes, that would be a great use case 21:05:37 it's pretty much possible. it will also make you feel very smart 21:06:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:08:02 -!- rme [rme@clozure-44802050.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 21:08:09 heh 21:08:17 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:09:07 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-81-2.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:10:30 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0078.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:43 well, maybe building my simple language with a common tokenizer/parser/... chain is the better solution as i don't really need to embed the new language in Lisp code... do you guys recommend Lisp as language for primitive compilers? are there any (small) reference projects yet? 21:12:26 fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-190-238-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:12:29 Lisp is good for compiling Lisp 21:12:42 alama [~alama@62.28.134.73] has joined #lisp 21:12:43 what about compiling other languages? 21:13:24 translate them into s-exps, reduce the problem to the previous 21:14:17 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-184.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:23 well, i was more thinking about tokenizing the input, then building an AST and using the AST for further actions... 21:14:42 so pretty much like i would do it with C/Perl/Python/... 21:15:06 using a lot of loops and ifs etc., so not very 'lispy', i guess 21:15:12 -!- daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has left #lisp 21:16:30 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 21:16:31 prefix is cool 21:16:44 infix feels natural 21:17:03 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:17:28 standing on ones head might feel natural if you did it long enough 21:17:28 *stassats* wonders where does Nature express itself using infix notation 21:19:17 'add up the costs', 'multiply the length by the width', 'divide the pie into four pieces'... 21:19:20 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 21:20:21 ADD 1, MUL 3 4,... so infix is one abstraction level more... 21:20:44 (is-complex 'world) => T 21:20:47 3 times 5, 1 plus 2 :p 21:21:39 so there are no well-known languages which have (first) been implemented in Lisp? 21:22:00 javascript, haskell? 21:22:04 prolog 21:22:11 smalltalk 21:22:15 realyl? cool! i didn't know that, sorry 21:22:37 lisp is frequently used as a bootstrapping substrate for languages. 21:22:48 to sum it up: using macros is not the right technique for this task. 21:22:51 right? 21:23:01 C 21:23:04 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947614.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:04 because the custom syntax compiles to sexp's and then you get hte compiler for free. 21:23:16 ML, CAML 21:23:37 ok, C was not *first* implemented in Lisp 21:24:02 in that case the sexp is the ast. 21:24:02 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has quit [Quit: mpliaks] 21:24:17 who knows, maybe they're embarrassed to tell 21:24:20 anyhow, your questions indicate that you have quite a bit of research to do before you could make a reasonable decision. 21:25:24 well, the basic question was whether to use macros for my task or not, and it's answered: no. thanks for that! 21:25:45 what is your task? 21:25:49 ssacc: not for the surface syntax, anyway 21:26:30 do you want your language to interact with Lisp? 21:26:51 like LOOP does 21:26:52 -!- limetree [~simon@c-23e8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:27:00 which kind of begs the question 'why not just use lisp as the extension language?' 21:27:03 one more thing, if i would like to have '(_ 2 * 3)' and '(_ 2 + 3)' both evaluated correctly, i would have to do the op checking inside one function? or is there a way to have multiple _ definitions? 21:27:24 like some kind of diff functions with the same names? overloading... 21:27:26 basically 21:28:06 stassats: no, it shouldn't really interact with lisp, but would be a cool additional feature... 21:28:18 i don't understand what you're talking about 21:28:22 Well, you can have a generic function with eql specializers for that 21:28:32 Even though i don't understand the point 21:28:44 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-25-24.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:45 ssacc: Is _ your interpreter? 21:28:59 well, i should have said *macro* instead of *function* 21:29:04 or your language's eval 21:29:29 wifesrider [~9inchdick@88.86.1.207] has joined #lisp 21:29:38 any one want me fuck his wife with my 9 inch dick 21:29:50 -!- wifesrider [~9inchdick@88.86.1.207] has quit [Quit: wifesrider] 21:29:58 that was... quick 21:30:11 I was going to ask him about the uncertainty on his measurement 21:30:12 :S 21:30:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-35-150.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:30:52 so here http://paste.lisp.org/display/121968 if i would like to check for the operator +/* then i would put everything iniside (defmacro _ (...)..), right? there is no way to have multiple _ macros with different signatures, is there? 21:31:15 -!- fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-190-238-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:19 you're confused on how macros work 21:31:27 <_3b> you can have one signature that accepts lots of forms 21:31:35 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:59 stassats: no, i don't think so, basically they just (re-)write code... 21:32:08 <_3b> probably better to use a reader macro to parse it if you really want non-sexp syntax though 21:32:26 but i see that it was stupid to ask whether i could have diff macros with the same name... 21:32:33 which is silly, of course ;) 21:32:34 ssacc: i'm not talking about basics, i'm talking about defmacro in CL 21:33:04 gzmask [~ray@corwin.cat.uregina.ca] has joined #lisp 21:33:13 it doesn't do pattern matching or anything, so that you put + there is meaningless 21:33:32 the best way to decide which algebraic operation to perform is to test for the second list element inside one macro, i guess 21:34:07 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:08 try (defmacro _ (a op b) `(,op ,a ,b)) 21:34:20 stassats: i know that i could have taken any other name, but just reading '+' makes it easier 21:34:34 stassats: that's just what i meant ;) 21:34:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:48 Hello folks, I am newb and... which implementation should I use provided I am on Mac OSX with homebrew and I love terminal+vim? 21:35:06 first step: stop loving vim and terminal 21:35:07 but still the _ can't be elemented... that's something that i will have to accept, i guess 21:35:19 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:30 ssacc: i don't understand your terminology 21:35:32 *eliminated* 21:35:54 *ssacc* elements himself 21:36:01 gzmask: at a guess, either clisp or sbcl+linedit (and try out slimv) 21:36:25 gzmask: I'd use ccl 21:36:32 gzmask: and second step would be to use Emacs and Slime with either SBCL or CCL 21:36:32 gzmask: or perhaps even ccl+linedit - although I don't know whether that works. 21:36:35 -!- _schulte_ [~Eric@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:36:42 anyway, thanks for your help so far! 21:37:42 <_3b> ssacc: you need some way to delimit your DSL from CL, that could be a macro like that _, a reader macro, or you could just put it in a separate file and compile that directly 21:37:46 you can have your own #\( macro character 21:38:34 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:39:20 _3b: i will do it with the _ i guess, if i consider having the new language construct embedded in the lisp code at all as it isn't too much of a necessity 21:40:36 <_3b> using a macro like _ limitis you to things that can still be parsed by CL reader 21:40:41 thanks folks. I tried emacs like 5 years ago and ... I'll give it another shot 21:40:45 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:24 gzmask: you don't have to change your religion completely, but using emacs for interacting with lisp is very nice 21:41:28 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:37 majsta [~majsta@dynamic-233-206-23-217-cmtsbl.broadband.blic.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:38 _3b: even usig several other prefixes for more complex constructs like ternary operators can be eliminated by preprocessing the whole code, i assume... 21:41:48 -!- majsta [~majsta@dynamic-233-206-23-217-cmtsbl.broadband.blic.net] has left #lisp 21:43:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:43:46 <_3b> ssacc: i'd assume 1 macro to translate an entire block of code, but it still has to look like lisp... symbols like foo:bar, limited use of ` , . etc 21:45:15 <_3b> for example (_ foo(1, 2, 3);) would be hard to implement 21:45:29 _3b: + a bunch of spaces! so no cool "155+(745/sqrt(90))" constructs 21:46:10 that's why i think a "classic" approach with tokenizer/parser/lexer... is the better solution... 21:46:25 though there is no lisp possible anymore in the new DSL 21:46:28 _3b, not only hard, but entirely horrid 21:46:44 <_3b> sure there is, you can put whatever syntax you want in the parser, including 'this is lisp 21:47:06 fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-190-238-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:47:18 it's all a lot of work! 21:47:25 <_3b> most of us just use lisp syntax for DSLs, since we are used to tools that know lisp syntax 21:47:28 (without using prebuilt tools) 21:47:36 <_3b> so use prebuilt tools 21:48:02 <_3b> shouldn't be too hard to build a parser out of esrap or one of the parser combinator libs, and tack that onto a reader macro 21:48:06 but that distracts from learning lisp, i guess 21:48:14 -!- onizu [~tinyirc@121.245.134.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:31 as i have to learn about the individual parser generators etc. instead of trying my own lisp constructs 21:48:48 anyway, irc is distracting, is should start thinking... 21:50:14 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:28 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:02 cl-yacc has been used to add various experimental features to C, for example. 21:57:54 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-199-214.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:14 -!- jobf [~user@c80-216-224-176.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 21:58:51 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A36F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:44 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] 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[~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:40:37 -!- reb` [~user@nat/google/x-lspgbiqaupfuvsgw] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:40:38 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:40:38 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnysfgganrmtdkij] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:40:38 -!- oprs [~oprs@91.121.149.157] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:40:38 -!- borism [~boris@ec2-46-137-99-139.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:41:48 Good morning everyone! 22:44:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:08 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:46:21 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:21 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:21 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:46:21 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined 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Leaving] 22:52:45 morning beach! 22:53:03 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:19 mindCrime [~chatzilla@nat/redhat/x-fbgziomgsjostmsz] has joined #lisp 22:54:38 davazp [~user@223.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:01 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:00:07 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:02:10 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-149-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:12 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 23:04:12 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 23:04:12 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:04:16 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:56 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-77-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:12:47 sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:14 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 23:13:25 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:36 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:14:14 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 23:18:41 hey beach, how's the clim stuff coming along? 23:18:48 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-77-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 23:19:19 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.11.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:20 MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.149.23] has joined #lisp 23:19:35 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:20:46 -!- davazp [~user@223.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:33 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:24:37 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:25:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-171.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:18 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.149.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:26:04 slyrus: Hey. Nothing new this week, due to overload at work, due to preceding vacation. But what nyef is doing has help a bit to figure things out. How about you? What are you up to? 23:26:35 real work and a little vacation. not much time for lisp hacking in the last few weeks. 23:26:47 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:56 I recognize the situation :( 23:28:05 having (finally) gotten an opengl substrate working from slime with SBCL/threads/darwin, I'd like a nice widget set that I can use with it for my biology and chemistry needs 23:28:35 I see, yes. 23:28:50 but i keep failing to get lichtblau's smokeqt stuff to work and don't want to revert to bare CLX stuff 23:29:21 oh, and I'd like an event-driven http server. and a pony. 23:30:09 In which order? 23:31:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Offline] 23:31:57 actually, there are probably enough ponies around. i'll take the http server, thanks. 23:32:20 I'll see what I can do :) 23:32:30 MoALTz [~no@92.18.31.26] has joined #lisp 23:32:59 *antifuchs* closes the browser tab with the hasbro online shopping cart in it 23:33:08 too bad! you would have gotten that pony! 23:33:17 heh! 23:34:51 <_3b> there is always webgl, it has lots of widgets you can use it with :) 23:35:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35:42 dboswell [~user@ip65-46-56-98.z56-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:12 <_3b> parenscript+webgl isn't quite as nice as CL+cl-opengl though :( 23:36:52 mm.. hash table users how much do you value read VS write performance? (and space overhead, also, I suppose) 23:38:14 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:40:07 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:46:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:50:04 i don't mind space overhead, memory is cheap nowadays 23:50:55 :( slyrus left. I tried to do some sbcl + opengl + darwin in the past and I kept getting some weird problems. 23:51:18 with slime 23:52:17 and with threads? 23:52:21 <_3b> sbryant_work: for best (or at least easiest) results, you need to do everything GL related from the initial thread, including loading libraries 23:52:29 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-167.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:17 MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.230.238] has joined #lisp 23:54:10 <_3b> for SBCL+slime, you can start things from *inferior-lisp*, or use un-threaded slime 23:54:24 <_3b> (or just switch to some OS that doesn't have these problems) 23:54:40 ec|iPad [~elliottca@cpe-066-056-234-188.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:39 it's not a problem, it's a feature 23:56:35 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.31.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:56:43 *_3b* thinks that for non-glut code you can use more than the initial thread if you know what you are doing, but lacks a mac on which to investigate details 23:56:56 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]