00:01:00 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.210.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:06 eq-hashing + consing -> a lot of rehashing certainly doesn't help, but i see very similar performance with a hand-rolled cache that doesn't need to rehash 00:03:18 eg. on this laptop the aforementioned README.md takes 7secs to parse using the 'doc grammar, out of which 5.6secs are spent in GC -- death by scaveging is how i think of it 00:04:56 <_3b> heh, didn't notice that aspect of the timing 00:05:26 *_3b* was only looking at how it was 30x faster than parsing it as a sequence of the 'block' grammar 00:05:48 slower, i think you mean :) 00:06:05 <_3b> no, parsing it with the block grammar dumps the cache between each parse 00:06:13 <_3b> and that file /really/ needs the cache 00:06:25 oh, i misread that the other way 00:06:59 <_3b> on normal files, the cache doesn't help as much, so not using it is a win 00:07:31 splittist5 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 00:07:33 <_3b> but that one is mostly stuff that looks sort of like html-block or whatever it is, but not quite, so it parses all the way to the end of the file for every block 00:07:48 -!- splittist4 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:01 <_3b> while normal files just go to the end of a paragraph before getting a successsful parse on some rule or another 00:08:28 ouch 00:08:56 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.215.239] has joined #lisp 00:10:58 alex_r [980722ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.7.34.237] has joined #lisp 00:11:56 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.159.143] has joined #lisp 00:12:40 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:30 -!- splittist5 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:03 <_3b> heh, just remembered i wanted to try that file on peg-markdown, which if i understood the code right doesn't use a cache... it doesn't seem to like it very much 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06:48:33 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 06:48:51 LUUWDA [46b3a973@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.169.115] has joined #lisp 06:48:55 Do they ever make fun of your name? 06:49:50 -!- pinterface1 [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:50:54 They do, but it's on purpose, so we can keep the competitive edge secret. 06:51:35 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:06 *splittist6* knew it would be a mistake releasing Quicktroll... 06:52:24 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 06:52:31 -!- splittist6 is now known as splittist 07:00:59 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 07:01:04 I mean, the name of this program lang. 07:02:03 got my pcl in the mail today 07:02:42 exactly half the size i thought it would be 07:03:28 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.98.69] has joined #lisp 07:03:29 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:04:22 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:31 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 07:04:40 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-98-204-160-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:38 LUUWDA: you got your answer. You may go now. 07:06:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:19 zenlunatic: write to the editor and ask for a bigger font edition. 07:08:49 pjb: They thought I was referring to their username. 07:09:14 LUUWDA: Do you realize your parents weren't born when LISP got its name? 07:09:18 Go away. 07:10:00 Wow, you get feisty at the drop of a hat. This is for you, pjb: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_Hoaxinator&oldid=340399095 07:10:56 Too big for you? Here then: http://www.textfiles.com/art/afinger.txt 07:11:11 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:26 What makes you assume my parents ages? 07:11:44 I'm not assuming your parent's age, I know LISP's age! 07:11:49 beach` [~user@116.118.0.244] has joined #lisp 07:13:39 -!- beach [~user@116.118.74.14] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:15:28 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:21:10 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-252-92.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:23:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:08 ceders [~ceders@adsl-69-231-121-141.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:15 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 07:28:23 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:28:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:28:23 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:28:29 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-215-164.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:45 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8224E8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:28:54 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:29:23 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:31:48 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has left #lisp 07:35:23 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:36:23 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:10 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 07:44:38 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-80-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:45:53 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-82-7.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:47:25 -!- LUUWDA [46b3a973@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.169.115] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:47:41 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:48:23 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.98.69] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 07:49:00 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 07:52:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:52:23 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:55:38 -!- ceders [~ceders@adsl-69-231-121-141.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:57:55 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:58:05 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:25 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.194] has joined #lisp 07:58:30 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:58:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:58:30 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:59:10 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.235.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:00:24 ceders [~ceders@adsl-69-231-121-141.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:04 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-243.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:01 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:10 hi,can i convert a gb18030 encoded text to utf8 using common lisp? 08:02:16 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.196] has joined #lisp 08:02:28 which library can i use? 08:02:59 <_3b> babel or flexi-streams might be able to convert it 08:03:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:28 oh,thx,let me try 08:04:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:14 tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:38 <_3b> hmm, not seeing it in either of them though 08:08:37 <_3b> looks like sbcl can convert GBK 08:08:51 <_3b> don't see 18030 though 08:09:09 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.27] has joined #lisp 08:09:59 oh.i'm chinese.most of china web sets using gb18030 08:10:20 maybe euc-cn 08:13:19 cfy: with clisp, there's nothing to do. You just read the gb18030 file with :external-format CHARSET:GB18030, and that's it. If you wanto to save the data in utf-8, then you write the new file with :external-format charset:utf-8. 08:14:22 That's what's called "batteries included". But some people still want external batteries like babel... 08:14:26 :-) 08:14:47 pjb: i get the string from drakma.not from my local file 08:15:22 pjb: and i found little document of babel:) 08:16:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:16:11 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17:12 cfy: with clisp, you can convert octets to strings and vice-versa with EXT:CONVERT-STRING-TO-BYTES and EXT:CONVERT-STRING-FROM-BYTES. 08:18:08 pjb: i just want convert gb18030 to utf-8.my locale is utf8,but the string on the web is gb18030 08:18:15 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@95.59.93.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:26 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:18:49 -!- ceders [~ceders@adsl-69-231-121-141.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 08:20:24 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:07 _3b: babel maybe don't support gb18030... 08:21:33 cfy: so you can't read a manual page? 08:22:03 pjb: okay,but i'm reading it. 08:22:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:22:08 <_3b> yeah, i didn't see it in babel or flexistreams 08:22:26 (ext:convert-string-from-bytes gb18030-bytes-from-drakma charset:gb18030) 08:22:46 pjb: thx,i will try it 08:22:51 And if you want utf-8 bytes; (ext:convert-string-to-bytes (ext:convert-string-from-bytes gb18030-bytes-from-drakma charset:gb18030) charset:utf-8) 08:23:03 am0c [~am0c@183.96.90.183] has joined #lisp 08:23:24 tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:23:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.234.229] has joined #lisp 08:23:43 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75668f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:57 pjb: thanks:) 08:24:15 otherwise, gb18030 is in iconv, therefore in libiconv... 08:26:58 Levenson [~Levenson@88.204.198.250.metro.online.kz] has joined #lisp 08:33:47 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 08:34:33 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:57 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:41 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-193-119.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:01 tic [~tic@c83-249-193-119.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:42:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:44:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:54 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:31 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:50:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:24 tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:53:41 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 -!- paul0 [~user@189.115.62.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:16 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:23 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:23 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:08:03 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 09:08:08 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:10:09 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:58 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 09:16:40 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-7-114.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:18:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-7-114.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:18:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:29:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:21 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 09:36:17 leo2007 [~leo@th041156.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 09:36:26 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:36:43 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 09:38:10 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:40:17 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.63] has joined #lisp 09:40:21 steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:25 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 09:40:32 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:40:52 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:38 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:48:44 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:50:33 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 09:58:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@183.96.90.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:04:19 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-152-186-144.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:04:52 can some give me a example to convert utf-8 encoding to gb18030?i really don't how to use cl-iconv. (iconv :UTF-8 :EUC-JN (map 'vector #'char-code (coerce "" 'list))) says that The value 27979 is not of type (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8). 10:05:31 the test file of the cl-iconv uses (iconv:iconv "UTF-8" "EUC-JP" #(227 129 130 227 129 132 227 129 134) 10:06:16 but i don't know how to convert string to the vector which cl-iconv can use. 10:06:36 does it not work on a plain string? 10:06:36 cfy: I don't know cl-iconv, but to mne it seems you are passing a list of code points to something that expects a UTF-8 sequence 10:06:38 Probably an octet sequence or something. 10:07:09 Probably the first argument to iconv should be UTF-32 10:07:21 araujo [~araujo@190.75.195.55] has joined #lisp 10:07:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.75.195.55] has quit [Changing host] 10:07:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:07:23 Or UCS4 10:07:26 It won't matter -- iconv always wants an octet sequence. 10:07:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.234.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:07:55 sbcl should have something that converts strings to that. 10:07:59 Zhivago: of course. that makes sense. Easy to convert though 10:08:10 thanks.i will try to convert the string to octet vector 10:08:29 Once you have the code point, converting it to a UTF-32 sequence is easy. 10:08:32 You'll want to check with your ffi. 10:08:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:06 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:49 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:21 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.200.62] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:24:57 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 10:27:59 jmbr [~jmbr@157.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:31:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:43 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:44 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:44:11 -!- Guest90646 [~David@99.96.181.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:37 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.200.62] has joined #lisp 10:52:51 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:33 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:55:13 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:58:43 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:02:39 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:02:50 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 11:04:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 11:05:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:38 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:28 -!- sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:34 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-187-255.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:13:18 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:35 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-152-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:51 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.69] has joined #lisp 11:27:59 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:02 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:39:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:49 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:37 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 11:42:23 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.235.130] has joined #lisp 11:52:40 ssacc [~sa@188-195-201-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:07 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 11:56:21 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.69] has joined #lisp 11:59:27 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:38 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:55 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-223-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Bye?] 12:02:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041156.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 12:03:05 Pepe__ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:43 beach`` [~user@116.118.0.244] has joined #lisp 12:06:39 hey, what library would you recommend for parsing binary formats? 12:06:45 -!- beach` [~user@116.118.0.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:15 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:16:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 12:19:26 pnq [~nick@ACA259D2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:08 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:31 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:12 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:34 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 12:34:06 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:50 Dodek: binary-types or gigamonkey's binary-data 12:36:38 alama [~alama@n138232.science.ru.nl] has joined #lisp 12:38:18 Xach: thanks 12:41:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:39 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:46:28 c_arenz [~arenz@p4FD425AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:53 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-187-139.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:49:35 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 12:50:14 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:17 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p4FD425AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:58:37 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 13:04:34 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 13:04:53 -!- Dodek is now known as Dodecki 13:05:27 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:29 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:45 -!- Dodecki is now known as Dodek 13:06:59 do you handle signal in lisp? 13:08:18 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:48 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:15 Yuuhi [benni@p54839DE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:57 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-136-49-89.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:15 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-152-186-144.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:16:21 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839DE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:45 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:23 cfy: I don't, but some people do. The interface, if any, is implementation-dependent. 13:20:35 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 13:20:50 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-32-25.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:20:56 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839DE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:21:08 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-32-25.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 13:23:24 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.226] has joined #lisp 13:24:26 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:25:42 pkhuong: i'm learning lisp.i used to write perl.and i find writting in lisp is quite different :) 13:26:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.235.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:40 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75668f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:46 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:38:52 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.250.161] has joined #lisp 13:39:11 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43:58 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:39 jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.69] has joined #lisp 13:48:46 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-43-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:48:46 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:54 urandom__ [~user@p548A7ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:06 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:58:04 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:27 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:59:06 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 14:02:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:58 morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.190.36] has joined #lisp 14:03:15 cfy: I recommend _Higher Order Perl_ to help you think more functionally in perl 14:04:06 it's available as a free PDF: http://hop.perl.plover.com/#free 14:04:20 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:31 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.200.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:04:50 Can I increase the precision of floating-points in SBCL a lot / how can I get more than just the first few digits in the fraction part of irrational numbers? 14:05:17 -!- elkng [~elkng@93.88.223.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:05:19 ilmari: thanks,but i want to replace perl with common lisp:) 14:05:36 -!- Pepe__ is now known as Pepe_ 14:05:38 cfy: might help the transition 14:05:49 ilmari, code in that book is hilarious 14:05:50 a lot of the concepts in the book are language-independent 14:05:56 gaidal: are you working with double or single floats? 14:06:01 even for the perl standard 14:07:08 pkhuong: I don't know enough about this to tell, it all seems automatic to me. 14:07:24 \\\\\\\\\\\\ 14:07:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:07:46 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 14:07:53 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #lisp 14:08:54 I'm just doing some divisions in the REPL and the answers are not precise at all, haven't learned about those things yet. 14:11:17 which lisp, sbcl ? 14:11:21 Yes 14:11:55 gaidal: floats are read as single point by default. 14:12:06 1d0 will be a double float 14:12:09 fixnum, rational, number, float....you have to know the type system....and implications.... 14:12:15 or you can set *read-default-float-format* 14:12:35 sbcl is default single-float not ? 14:12:47 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:48 the standard has that as default. 14:12:52 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:13:22 I'm getting 8 digits in the fraction part I think, or 9 or 10, not sure how to count. Is that single-float? 14:14:10 (typep x 'single-float) 14:14:15 I know I probably have to read up on these things, a pointer to a nice place to start would be great. 14:14:16 how are floats represented in binary system ? with mantissa etc... ? 14:14:18 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:26 does sbcl use some portable format ? 14:14:50 there's an ieee-floats package for cl. 14:15:22 sbcl uses the native format of the architecture, so ieee for most practical purposes 14:15:30 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 14:15:40 is the usual first reference for FP. 14:15:49 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:50 Thanks. 14:16:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:03 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-92-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:18:48 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:19:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:22:13 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:33 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 14:26:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.133.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:04 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:28 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:29:27 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:30:27 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:23 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:32:26 amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:55 Jubb [~ghost@c-98-204-160-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:58 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:40 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:53 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:36:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA259D2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:40 -!- morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.190.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:56 Has there ever been any effort at creating some kind of documentation generation tool for CL? Perhaps something that can take the docstrings, apply some markup magic and create nicely indexed documentation (think Javadocs) 14:37:06 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-191-189.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:37:30 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.176.15] has joined #lisp 14:38:10 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 14:38:13 There's a couple. 14:38:19 http://weitz.de/documentation-template/ is one. 14:38:23 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:04 I see 14:39:15 Arnesi uses something, but I don't know what it is. 14:39:16 Thanks 14:39:23 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:39 I just wished there was something that presented the API in a much more consise overview-kind of way 14:39:55 Especially CLOS-based API's could really benefit from something javadoc-like 14:39:56 different from html-template? 14:40:22 Well, that's just part of it. I'm takin gmore about also representing relationship between classes, methods, functions etc 14:41:06 Say, a list of classes, and an easy way to navigate the desciptions of all methods that apply to the selected class, etc. 14:41:27 I was thinking about that when I was working with hunchentoot 14:41:52 Why are you worried about what a class can do? Focus on the generic functions. :) 14:42:37 yeah, that's what I want to. But for example, you're setting there with an instance of, say, FLEXI-STREAM and you want to see all methods that do something with that object 14:42:43 anyway -- I know SLIME has a class browser thing. I'm not sure how to list all generic functions that have methods specialized on a certain class and its superclasses. 14:42:55 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.93.165] has joined #lisp 14:42:59 I suppose I got that from the ay I usually explore API's in Java. 14:43:08 possibly. 14:43:09 sykopomp: it does? 14:43:13 loke: Yes. 14:43:21 sykopomp: That might solve my problem. How do start it? 14:44:01 M-x slime-browse-class, I think. 14:44:04 I never use it. :\ 14:45:02 nope. no such thing. Perhaps it's an extension? 14:45:21 Hmm 14:45:22 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Xref-and-Class-Browser.html 14:45:45 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-xref-browser)) perhaps? 14:46:19 loke: What I find most useful when browsing code is M-. and C-c C-w C-c 14:46:29 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:36 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:46:46 Do I have to class slime-setup before I start slime? 14:47:04 You should have a slime-setup in your .emacs, or similar. 14:47:14 if you at least want a fancy repl :P 14:47:32 No, I don't, because it turns out that on this machine I still install slime from APT 14:47:48 yeah yeay, so sue me. I have fixed that on my other machines. :-) 14:48:13 Just put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-xref-browser)) in .emacs. 14:48:31 You can C-x C-e at the end of the expression to evaluate it right away. 14:48:47 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:39 That's the thing. I just don't think the crappy uibuntu packaging includes the extensions 14:49:44 at least not this one 14:50:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:10 ah 14:51:18 You should at least have M-. and C-c C-w C-c 14:51:21 I do 14:51:22 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:51:24 Of course 14:51:28 and I would find those -much- more useful than class browsers. 14:51:33 I'll throw out this crappy version and install from cvs 14:51:47 I'd say install from quicklisp. 14:51:52 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:00 and use quicklisp-slime-helper. 14:52:05 *sykopomp* checks if that's the right name. 14:52:05 Hmm. I tried that once, and had some issues. Can't remember what it was 14:53:11 ahh wtf ;-) 14:53:21 I already _HAVE_ the ql version of slime :-) 14:53:25 I forogt I changed that 14:53:59 pnq [~nick@ACA38258.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:20 -!- jingtao`` [~jingtaozf@123.120.10.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:49 hmm. 14:57:22 even after installing slime-extras from QL, I can't get it to work. Oh well, I'll do some reading and figure it out later. 14:57:28 Have some damn housework to attend to 14:59:20 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:00:15 kaek [~b@c-99cfe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:00:26 -!- kaek [~b@c-99cfe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 15:02:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:32 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.72] has joined #lisp 15:03:16 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:55 Lectus [~fred@189.104.223.17] has joined #lisp 15:10:11 morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.191.198] has joined #lisp 15:11:38 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.176.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:20 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 15:16:21 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] 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Quitting] 16:55:32 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:48 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:07 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:12 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.149] has joined #lisp 16:57:07 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:47 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 17:00:41 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.229] has joined #lisp 17:01:32 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 17:02:05 add^_ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.216.49] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:09:46 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.72] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:10:25 unhygienix [~unhygieni@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:02 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 17:17:21 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:47 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:22 I want n-of. (n-of 3 (gensym)) returns a list of three gensyms. Does it exist in common lisp? 17:18:45 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:11 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@97.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:22 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 17:21:43 akkartik: (map-into (make-list 3) #'gensym) 17:21:47 akkartik: alexandria:make-gensym-list 17:23:04 Xach: are there any plans for Quicklisp shirts other than your own? :P 17:23:49 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-178-006-215-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 17:24:07 ah, (loop repeat 3 collect (gensym)) 17:24:18 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host149-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:24:50 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 17:25:58 carlocci [~nes@93.37.213.187] has joined #lisp 17:29:07 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:32 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.229] has joined #lisp 17:32:15 Kenjin: Third party designs? 17:32:31 Xach: your design ;) 17:32:49 Kenjin: I don't understand the question, sorry. If the answer was yes, what would that mean? 17:33:16 Xach: sorry. I meant are there more like yours? 17:34:18 http://www.zazzle.com/quicklisp_tshirt-235796516795932452 is a place where you can buy one like mine. I don't think that's a very good price, but I haven't looked into cheaper vendors. 17:34:27 The quality is pretty good. 17:34:51 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:07 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:35:36 Xach: that's exactly what I wanted. Thanks. 17:41:00 loke_ [~elias@bb220-255-86-21.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:44:04 -!- loke [~elias@bb116-14-111-203.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:47:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.216.49] has joined #lisp 17:48:52 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 17:49:45 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:26 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-5.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:57 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb220-255-86-21.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:04 Bronsa [~brace@host149-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:56:46 enupten [~neptune@117.192.83.132] has joined #lisp 17:57:08 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.93.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:16 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:58 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.216.49] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:02:48 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 18:04:45 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:46 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:56 brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:10 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:05:30 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-191-189.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:07:28 cheezus [~Adium@69.196.171.160] has joined #lisp 18:09:09 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:13:14 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:14:25 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host149-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:15:03 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.83.132] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 18:19:45 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:19:58 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-98-204-160-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:40 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21A50.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:22 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:41 TDT [~user@74.115.254.25] has joined #lisp 18:32:27 Hey all. I'm working at optimizing some lisp at the moment, and could definitely use a second set of eyes on this. Basically the project is a way to search source code using the GRASP algorithm. This has been implemented, and works fine - but I'm now working at trying to optimize the code a little. The source code is here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121877 and the timings are the first paste. 18:33:25 Right now I'm sorting the neighborhood a grand total of 5000 times (5 repeats, 1000 iterations) plus a few extra - so it's not surprising to be at the top of the list. The time it takes to sort a neighborhood, which is roughly 50 elements or so, is still quite long even when done per call. 18:34:56 One way I was thinking of optimizing the code is trying to cache the neighborhood before, which will cut down the iterations significantly at the cost of ramping up the memory quite a bit, but would like to try to optimize this code a bit beforehand..if anyone has any suggestions. 18:37:54 One option: don't use lists and alists. 18:38:35 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:58 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 18:42:57 *nod* yeah, I'm calling sort quite a few times more than I need to as well, which isn't helping. I could be using a hash for part of this, then simply keep a list of sorted indexes for the hash. Part of the GRASP algorithm is a sorted candidate list, so I need that much at least. 18:43:23 But could easily do that once, store that result in a list, then redo all of this into a hash table or something like that. 18:50:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:57 Hunden [~Hunden@p5B104637.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:44 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:57:45 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:58:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.216.49] has joined #lisp 19:07:40 sacho [~sacho@79-100-48-20.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:10:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:13 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:30 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-42-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 19:15:29 stis [~stis@host-90-239-51-131.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:23 Bronsa [~brace@host149-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:32:35 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-48-20.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:33:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:34:29 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.135] has joined #lisp 19:34:43 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:56 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-35.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-42-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:32 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:12 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:13 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:46:40 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:47:08 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:31 hi 19:48:11 hi 19:50:55 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:25 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:59 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:50 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:27 -!- unhygienix 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has joined #lisp 20:01:20 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 archman [~archman@unaffiliated/archman] has joined #lisp 20:02:44 -!- archman [~archman@unaffiliated/archman] has left #lisp 20:03:46 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 20:04:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:07 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.135] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:05:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:48 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:08:34 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:57 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:57 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:57 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:16:25 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:17:54 belated hi! 20:18:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:12 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:19:25 -!- hungrygruffalo [~hungrygru@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: hungrygruffalo] 20:19:45 hungrygruffalo [~hungrygru@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:51 -!- hungrygruffalo [~hungrygru@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:00 unhygienix [~lemonkand@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:03 Landr [~user@dD5770D30.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-187-139.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:24:51 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host149-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:25:23 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:25:42 -!- unhygienix [~lemonkand@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:30 unhygienix [~lemonkand@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:32 -!- unhygienix [~lemonkand@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:05 unhygienix [~hungrygru@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:24 -!- unhygienix [~hungrygru@host86-135-59-30.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:08 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-148-187-139.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:35 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:28:49 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:27 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:31:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-35.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.70.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:57 Hi all 20:37:54 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:10 What is the best way to pretty print (loop ...)? Can I customize it? 20:41:00 MoALTz [~no@92.9.66.253] has joined #lisp 20:43:31 surely you have all read http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node253.html 20:44:17 But I still have some programming issues 20:45:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:45:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75668f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:25 loop being kinda cobol like i would like a pascal like output 20:45:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6503 20:47:37 guess I figured it out myself 20:48:49 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:49:07 Have any of you read XP. A Common Lisp Pretty Printing System? 20:49:54 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:06 Guess I'm back to comp.lang.lisp and the old-timers.. 20:51:40 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:54:07 argiopeweb [~elliot@184.91.74.59] has joined #lisp 20:55:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:55:38 Guest90646 [Guest90646@cpe-70-113-89-46.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:36 -!- Guest90646 [Guest90646@cpe-70-113-89-46.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:55 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.20.73] has joined #lisp 21:00:48 Hi all! 21:03:25 urandom_ [~user@p548A3B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:23 Hi lone! 21:06:22 huzzah! working indent-sexp on loops :) 21:08:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:44 ec|iPad [~elliottca@cpe-066-056-234-188.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:48 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:38 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:16:25 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-68-163-173.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:40 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-76-70-124.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:03 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-68-163-173.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:21 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-163-173.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:01 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B023A7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:07 nice :) 21:19:34 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:04 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:04 -!- brodo_ is now known as brodo 21:21:48 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:54 mauryck [~mauryck@bard-nynt4-172.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 21:24:02 mauryck_ [~mauryck@bard-nynt4-172.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 21:26:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-191-189.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:12 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:30 -!- mauryck_ [~mauryck@bard-nynt4-172.bard.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:40 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.250.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:52 *ASau`* knows operation that locks SBCL and ECL. 21:35:56 It is funny. 21:36:36 All you need is make them read one line of output from external program. 21:36:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:57 The line is 18300 characters long though. 21:37:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.243.222] has joined #lisp 21:38:46 asher9 [~asher@c-24-91-59-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:45 I have two tightly coupled packages, and I'd like a few non-exported symbols from one to be used in the other. I noticed the :intern and :import-from defpackage options can achieve this, however doing so was called "nonsense" here: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/185827a5fc134129 Why is it nonsense? 21:42:10 hahaha 21:42:31 haflich is right that :intern is useful precisely for this sort of stuff 21:43:29 but it's not really nonsense if your build depends on packages being defined (with their exports in place), but the functions not being defined until much later 21:44:35 well I'm using packages.lisp for all packages, which seems to be canonical. If defpackage was at the top of each file it wouldn't be necessary. 21:44:56 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 21:45:06 So given a packages.lisp, :intern seems less "nonsense", right? 21:45:12 you can use multiple files to define packages 21:45:22 Good morning everyone! 21:45:23 it's just a good idea to do it separately from your other sources, I think 21:47:49 I'd still like to know the rationale behind the "nonsense"-ness of it. Was it more fashionable circa 2004 to not use packages.lisp for all DEFPACKAGE defs? 21:48:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:17 nah 21:48:42 I believe that's just hyperbole 21:48:49 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:53 buuut you can ask gigamonkey why he agrees (: 21:49:38 I can tell you that in refactoring a huge chunk of code that Haflich (and others) wrote, :import was immensely useful to me (-: 21:50:48 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:50:53 antifuchs: iirc you had some indentation tweaks at some point? 21:50:56 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-239-51-131.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:03 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:11 I kept cl-indent-patches.el on my server 21:51:33 what did it do? 21:51:36 When I search cll for lisp questions I have, about half the time Seibel asked the same thing. 21:51:37 mostly because the copyright situation is unclear 21:51:46 nikodemus: it's mostly loop keyword indent fixes 21:51:58 gabor has some if* indentation fixes, too (; 21:52:16 asher9: well, he had to learn the language in order to write the book (-: 21:52:44 nikodemus: but see for yourself, http://boinkor.net/lisp/cl-indent-patches.el 21:53:34 ah, right subclause stuff 21:58:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:58:42 that reminds me -- I want a sexp-diff plugin for git. Line-centric diffs are a drag. 21:59:02 yes, that' would be sweet 21:59:14 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:15 maybe try word diff in the meantime? (: 22:00:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:16 hah that took awhile, but that rewrite was so worth it 22:03:18 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:03:30 going from alists to hashes reduced my computational time down to near nothing 22:03:43 So I looked at Arc, and I was surprised at how unsurprising it was. Apart from the lisp-1 nature of it, it could be implemented as a relatively small lisp package. 22:04:03 The language for the next 100 years is just some macros on top of lisp. 22:04:08 ec|iPad_ [~elliottca@cpe-066-056-234-188.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:15 -!- ec|iPad [~elliottca@cpe-066-056-234-188.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:16 -!- ec|iPad_ is now known as ec|iPad 22:04:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:48 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:11:53 pnq [~nick@AC81BAEE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:05 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 22:22:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:36 (obj ...) creates a hash in arc. that's a great name because "obj" could obviously not be mistaken for anything else. 22:28:11 -!- ec|iPad [~elliottca@cpe-066-056-234-188.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ec|iPad] 22:28:54 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:15 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:30:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:50 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:31:14 and what's wrong with "hash" ? 22:31:20 it has one letter more ? 22:34:39 it's not php compatible... at least it wasn't back in 2005 or whenever. (: 22:34:49 how naive we all were back then (: 22:36:13 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:38 rfg [~rfg@host86-147-110-188.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:58 what, the AI winter didn't turn us all into hard cynical bastards? :) 22:40:07 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:06 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:42:19 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:46 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 -!- alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:46:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-5.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:47:19 There seems to be a rivalry between with-unique-names+with-rebinding and with-gensyms+once-only. Old school verses the gigamonkey new school. 22:49:08 xan_ [~xan@199.83.221.5] has joined #lisp 22:50:29 I just wonder what the purpose of the new names were. 22:51:40 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 22:52:18 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A3B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:04 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@199.83.221.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:53:52 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 23:00:16 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-4-251.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:06:19 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:22 nooboon [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has joined #lisp 23:07:12 I'm a little bit confused on the relationships between symbols, packages, and keywords. Will someone give me an explanation or the best guide? 23:07:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:55 keywords are symbols that, at read-time, are made into constant that evaluate to themselves. 23:08:42 how is that different from quote? 23:08:52 you don't have to quote them. 23:09:23 Every interned symbols has a home package. Packages are a flat set of namespaces for symbols. That way, CL:AND and FOO:AND can be different symbols. 23:09:36 what about packages/namespaces/whatever. what does foo:bar mean? 23:09:59 is it like C++ foo::bar or reverse? 23:09:59 nooboon: http://weitz.de/packages.html 23:10:03 foo:bar is the symbol with the name BAR that's visible as an exported symbol of FOO. 23:10:28 ah ok 23:10:36 and foo:bar also evaluates to itself? 23:10:38 It's the same basic idea as namespaces in other languages, except that: namespaces and classes are independent in CL, and CL packages don't nest. 23:10:45 nooboon: if it's been defined that way. 23:10:46 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:53 usually not. 23:11:42 why not unify namespaces and classes? 23:11:53 (i guess that's a big design question) 23:13:37 alama [~alama@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 it doesn't make any sense with multiple dispatch. Also, it lets you make the difference between movie:shoot and gun:shoot ;) 23:14:40 hmmm 23:14:50 also, (defclass foo () (pkg1:slot pkg2:slot pkg3:slot)) 23:15:08 ok. I'll read that link. thanks! 23:15:13 Or, more usefully, not clash with 'internal' slots defined in a separate module. 23:15:14 nooboon: once you buy into the notion that packages in CL are just containers for symbols, it falls into place. 23:15:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-4-251.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:09 note foo::bar is also legal, denoting a symbol which may or may not be exported 23:17:53 (since you asked specifically about foo::bar) 23:18:06 may or may not? 23:18:29 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 23:18:29 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 23:18:29 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:18:35 right foo::bar works when bar is exported and when bar is not exported 23:19:15 while foo:bar only works when bar is exported 23:19:22 in actual practice, you had better have a very good reason to be reaching for an unexported symbol. 23:19:49 so is it safe to think of packages as associative arrays? 23:20:36 as long as that translates to 'bucket for symbols' then think of it how you like. :) 23:21:55 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:22 -!- emma is now known as em 23:28:07 benny` [~benny@87.122.131.0] has joined #lisp 23:28:28 -!- benny [~benny@87.122.125.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:29:04 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:32:54 nooboon: only over strings, and with some case-folding during parsing. 23:33:11 (only from strings to symbols, at that) 23:35:19 -!- mauryck [~mauryck@bard-nynt4-172.bard.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:57 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:53 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.63] has joined #lisp 23:39:58 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-5.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:21 It seems difficult finding a symbol corresponding to a given string. Due to readtable-case you would have to cycle through all case variants of the string, and it could yield multiple matches. 23:41:20 I've seen examples where the lookup is with string-upcase, which seems incomplete due to readtable-case. 23:42:02 the case-folding is done at intern-time. 23:42:54 e.g. foo in the default case setting will intern/find a symbol named "FOO". If you type foo, again, in say :preserve, then you'll get another symbol named "foo". 23:43:44 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.213.187] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:44:09 I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. 23:44:16 I'm disagreeing. 23:44:36 the case folding happens once, at read-time, not after the fact. 23:44:58 You can type the same thing three times and get three distinc symbols. 23:45:04 *distinct 23:45:13 And that supports what I said. If I want the symbol corresponding to "foo", I don't know whether to look for "FOO" or "foo" because I can't assume what readtable-case was. 23:45:38 or even FoO for :preserve 23:45:51 Oh you mean, you, the human. Sure. 23:46:30 The implementation simply obeys the case setting in the reader, and the symbol & package machinery itself doesn't fiddle with case at all. 23:47:08 I honestly never understood what the point of having the reader change the case is 23:47:20 drdo: DO YOU WANT TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS? 23:47:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:47:33 pkhuong: Or you can just have lowercase symbols?.... 23:47:42 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:47:54 then the dusty decks that made Common Lisp a worthwhile effort won't work. 23:48:31 Sure i understand that it's for some historic reason 23:48:41 But what was the point of this even before CL? 23:48:47 What practical purpose does it serve? 23:48:58 not all machine had support for lower and upper case. 23:49:02 That's a lot of wasted bits. 23:51:08 xan_ [~xan@199.83.221.5] has joined #lisp 23:53:04 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.20.73] has quit [Quit: Farewell]