00:00:54 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:42 nyef: Now is fine actually. 00:01:58 Ah, good. 00:02:37 I came to the conclusion that I had the geometry layer sufficiently figured out that I could go back and see what happens when it is actually applied to sheets and such. 00:03:46 So I looked for an edge case: Two sheets, left and right, sharing a common border. They don't overlap, but there's no space between them. 00:04:12 OK. 00:04:19 see, in Motif that wouldn't be a problem 00:04:23 (ba-dm-tshhhh) 00:04:38 So, there's a vertical line of points which are contained in the regions of both sheets. 00:04:56 -!- pnq [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:04:58 Why? 00:05:33 antifuchs: It shouldn't be a problem anywhere, I would think. 00:05:36 Because regions are "closed": They include their borders. The coordinate space is, at this level, "continuous". 00:05:48 postscript, opengl, etc solve that by specifying points between edges as left <= x < right, or left < x <= right 00:06:08 nyef: Oh, right, of course. 00:06:10 I believe I've seen the effects of what Phoodus describes in PS 00:06:41 -!- Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:06:44 nyef: On the other hand, this line is infinitely thin so cannot be rendered. 00:06:54 and is typically between pixel squares 00:07:03 (when talking about rasterization) 00:07:05 Right, when you render, they don't overlap. 00:07:10 Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:20 nyef: So what is the problem? 00:07:22 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:07:22 But the rendering model is pixels-are-roughly-square. 00:07:27 Mouse input. 00:07:47 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 00:07:47 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 00:07:47 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 00:07:47 A pixel is "addressed" by the coordinates of its upper-left corner. 00:08:05 It's "decision point" for rendering is its center: If the center is within the region, it gets drawn. 00:08:10 Err... Thwap! 00:08:19 Its "decision point". 00:08:19 and what is "within" defined as? 00:08:40 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:09 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@69.196.171.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:09:11 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:12 Phoodus: CLIM II specification, section 12.4, the second bullet list item after the third paragraph. 00:09:25 nyef: For mouse input, it would be sufficient to decide what pixel is referred to by integer coordinates x,y and then decide that it's the region that contains that pixel that is concerned, no? 00:09:47 beach: That'd be nice, but none of the utility functions are defined that way. 00:10:04 It's all "is this point contained within the sheet region". 00:10:25 ok, then by that definition, a point is not "inside" 2 perfectly adjacent items if it lies on the boundary between them 00:10:27 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 00:10:48 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:10:57 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:57 it's only "inside" one of them 00:11:12 ... CLIM seems grossly overcomplicated to me. Thanks nyef :/ 00:11:15 Phoodus: In rendering, it's inside one of them, but in geometry it's inside both. 00:11:39 So, we look at "device coordinates", and decide that they are unlikely to not be integers. 00:11:42 that's a difficult incongruity to deal with 00:12:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:12:30 Why not bias the pointer by half a pixel to the right and half a pixel down, moving it to the "decision point" instead of the "address" of the pixel under the hotspot? 00:12:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-187-50.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:03 that's what I've done when doing screen-coord to geometry-coord 00:13:07 This starts off fine, except now you can't have the COORDINATE type be INTEGER or a subset thereof. 00:13:35 (Since you need to be able to test to see if a point with a fractional coordinate is within a region.) 00:14:13 can't help you there; postscript, opengl, and the other things I've worked with tend to be floating point 00:14:44 And then you turn around and move the border between the two sheets over by half a unit, placing it smack-dab on the decision point for the pixels. 00:15:08 The rendering is unchanged, but now the biased mouse pointer position is found in both sheets again. 00:15:33 How do you fix -this-? 00:15:34 nyef: What is the goal of your exercise? Fix the current model with as few modifications as possible to the spec? 00:15:34 why not just stop at the first match? 00:15:35 sounds like a problem with the clim spec 00:15:36 seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:11 I think it's to figure out how to implement the spec or why it can't be implemented. 00:16:29 ezakimak: "First" in what sense? 00:16:46 you're searching for which sheet a click belongs to, right? 00:16:58 nyef: Do you have us a complete list of spec entries that may have to be modified or clarified? 00:17:15 ezakimak: The sheets don't overlap, so Z-order doesn't make sense. The test for if a point is within a sheet is just this edge-case too greedy. 00:17:20 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:34 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:35 i agree w/Phoodus--the spec is wonky where it has poor delineation 00:17:37 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:18:11 i don't understand how they can both (1) not overlap, and (2) share the space 00:18:19 i think it's a problem of definition 00:18:54 beach: No, I've been concentrating on figuring out implications for implementation more than what needs fixing. If I know the one, I can find the other, but not necessarily vice-versa. 00:18:56 they don't share space, they share a point 00:19:09 or share a segment 00:19:10 like we said earlier, if a user clicks on a pixel, whatever sheet was *rendered* to that pixel should get the event 00:19:10 ezakimak: They share a common, infinitely thin, boundary. 00:19:18 but that boundary is not rendered 00:19:26 something is rendered to a pixel, no? 00:19:30 ezakimak: I'm not contesting that, but the machinery simply isn't set up for that. 00:19:35 ic 00:19:58 There's also the "pixels have area" heresy involved here, too. 00:20:21 they do on the rendering device though, don't they? 00:20:38 pixels do have area if you do full geometric antialiasing ;) 00:20:41 at least *something* has to have area 00:20:44 On the output device? Yes. But conceptually, they're point samples. 00:21:29 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:21:31 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-162-110.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:31 sure, so I just think of it as layers, and whatever source ultimately influenced the content of a pixel on the device owns any events there 00:22:37 Anyway, the best solution I have for this mess at this point is to canonicalize the sheet regions to have integer device coordinates when the sheets are grafted. 00:23:28 nyef: I think the sane solution would be to consider pointer coordinates biased by (0.5, 0.5). 00:23:30 This is, so far as I can tell, unsupported by the main text of the specification, but the second "minor issue" paragraph for SHEET-REGION strongly implies that this is how the original CLIM works. 00:23:40 nyef: I can't find in the spec where it defines whether or not a point is within a region 00:23:43 beach: Yes, that's the first part, but it's insufficient. 00:23:58 who originally wrote the spec? 00:24:04 nyef: but I think the bias should not be done explicitly, so as to preserve integer coordinates at that level. 00:24:16 nyef: What is the second part? I must have missed it. 00:24:24 maybe they've figured all this out before 00:26:02 beach: If you bias the pointer (and you have to do so explicitly, otherwise child-containing-position and friends don't work), you get the same problem as soon as two sheet regions abut at a coordinate at a half-unit position (ending in .5). 00:26:37 -!- davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:26:41 So to prevent that from happening, rewrite all sheet regions to use integer coordinates. 00:26:57 nyef: Oh, OK. Yes, and this is why zones in CLIM3 have integer coordinates. 00:27:23 even if sheet regions were defined as having integer coords, once you have a 45deg angled region boundary segment, that would exactly pass through the center of pixel areas again 00:27:49 (unless they're explicitly defined as axis-aligned bounding boxes) 00:28:16 nyef: I think we are slowly arriving at the conclusion that general regions and such should not be applied to a prefix of the sheet hierarchy. 00:28:48 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:57 unless boundary tests in geometry are defined to use the "only in 1 direction" edge resolving that rasterization uses 00:29:01 Right, that's the other way to look at it. 00:29:43 which would mean that boundary tests would need to be done only after all transformations into screen space were applied 00:29:46 nyef: ... and as long as the application programmer sticks to functionality in that prefix (using integer-coordinate rectangular axis-aligned regions), some assistance from the library can be expected. Otherwise he/she is on his/her own. 00:29:52 I'm almost to the point of throwing the whole "silica" layer overboard, and trying to write the application layer directly over CLX. 00:31:01 nyef: are you trying to implment CLIM2? 00:31:20 p_l|backup: I'm trying to see what's involved in so doing. 00:31:26 nyef: There has got to be a useful portable abstraction layer on that level. 00:31:41 p_l|backup: Until I can figure that out, I can't actually do it, you know? 00:32:49 beach: There possibly is, but it's somewhat buried under stuff that just doesn't seem right. 00:32:51 are there any implementations of CLIM2, or is it just a spec? 00:33:08 (full or reference implementations, that is) 00:33:24 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:33:40 Phoodus: It's not even a spec in the same sense that CLHS is. 00:34:04 Phoodus: Yes, probably at least 4. 00:34:19 Phoodus: They may share some code, though. 00:35:50 nyef: It is sometimes unclear to me whether you want to stick to the CLIM II spec as much as possible, or whether you want to ditch it and do something else. Perhaps this is just because you haven't decided that yet. Me, I have made a decision. I don't think it is worth trying to spend time fixing the CLIM II spec. 00:36:29 nyef: I was considering using some of the more logical concept then fitting it on top of PDF drawing model 00:36:32 Thinking about it, I seem to be /trying/ to make that decision. 00:36:33 antifuchs: Do you confirm? McCLIM, Franz, LispWorks, and Symbolics? 00:36:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:59 beach: there was also MCL's 00:37:14 p_l|backup: Oh, right! 00:38:20 umbriaco [~user_name@64.120.47.131] has joined #lisp 00:38:40 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:40:10 That does seem to be the case: I clearly want to be implementing -something- at least somewhat CLIM-like, and at this point I'm trying to figure out how much of the "silica" layer is usably specified and what's involved in using just that much of the system. 00:40:29 Since building up from there should be straightforward. 00:41:22 mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:57 -!- umbriaco [~user_name@64.120.47.131] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:11 nyef: I think you will have to restrict everything to integer-coordinate, rectangular, axis-aligned sheets. 00:44:38 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:52 nyef: And if you come up with a nice low-level layer like that, I'll stick it underneath the zones of CLIM3. 00:44:59 Not quite, but yes. Sets of rectangles would work fine as well. 00:45:12 Right. 00:45:31 nyef: Make sure you have transparency, though, so that anti-aliasing is possible. 00:45:44 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 00:46:11 nyef: For shaped windows, you can use a bounding rectangle and a bitmap. 00:48:03 Anti-aliased shaped window borders? 00:49:23 and transparency effects like shadows could be done with that 00:50:38 htierno [~htierno@108-100-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 00:51:13 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:48 nyef: I suggest a bitmap. I pixel either belongs entirely to the window or not at all. 00:54:10 Right, just making sure. 00:55:52 kkopiec [~kkopiec@host109-153-197-129.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:56:53 How about this? We declare the specified geometry and transformation stuff to be deeply bogus. Have integer coordinates, give sheets a bounding-box with a top-left corner position and a width and height, allow them to specify single-bit opacity / region-membership for the spaces within the bounding-box. 00:58:23 There's still some vestigial notion of transforms, but it's all translation transformations, not anything more complex. 00:59:52 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:59:55 Much of the rest of the sheet and input / event stuff remains, designs do not, colors are no longer unbounded regions, things like that. 01:01:25 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:25 Oh, and we keep the notion of an object that represents a set of axis-aligned rectangles, but none of this silly "includes the outer border" and "infinitely thin line" stuff. This is a discrete environment, not a continuous one. 01:01:36 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.134] has joined #lisp 01:06:15 -!- kkopiec [~kkopiec@host109-153-197-129.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:01 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 01:08:50 nyef: Sounds perfect to me. It look exactly what I assume for CLIM3. 01:09:04 *looks 01:09:28 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:38 nyef: would bitmaps have to be the entire size of the sheet? 01:10:43 nyef: General regions and transformations can be kept, but just as an additional utility library for use within these new sheets. They are not used elsewhere. 01:11:01 or can a sheet be broken up into regions, where the edges have bitmaps to define a complex edge, but the large center of it is simply an opaque rectangle? 01:11:07 Phoodus: They would be two-dimensionally run-length encoded. 01:11:27 Phoodus: That is, a set of non-overlapping rectangular regions. 01:12:24 so things like 9-slice scaling would have to be in 'userspace'? 01:12:26 beach: So, for output rendering only? 01:13:09 nyef: what about the jackboot solution of declaring that, in the event of ambiguity about which sheet is affected, the left-hand one wins? 01:13:27 beach: At which point, just providing a hook to allow custom medium implementations would surely be sufficient to allow that as a third-party extension? 01:13:32 Or, thinking ahead to the intersection between four of them, the top-left one? 01:13:56 nyef: Not sure what that means. An application could use them to do whatever it wants, but the operations would ultimately result in operations on these "new sheets". 01:14:04 jfleming: Bottom-right one, actually. And the problem is that determining that is expensive. 01:14:21 Ah, OK. 01:14:41 nyef: That is to dense as far as information contents is concerned for me to be able to say "yes" or "no" at this point. 01:15:01 Fair enough. 01:15:15 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:18 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:27 So, rough design worked out, next steps are to flesh it out towards a specification a bit and to actually attempt to implement it. 01:16:38 how is it expensive, just because of the possibility of arbitrary affine transforms? 01:16:41 nyef: dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/stuff has comments (in column 0) to your notes. 01:16:59 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 01:17:16 nyef: Sounds good. 01:17:47 Okay, looking at your notes on my notes. 01:18:17 Several clients in a single-threaded CLIM? I wouldn't expect to. 01:19:01 There wouldn't be internal thread synchronization in a single-threaded CLIM, that's the point. 01:19:23 It matters who creates the window because winapi windows have an affinity to the message queue of the thread that creates them. 01:20:24 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.147] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:20:40 I probably should be making a distinction between "creating" and "realizing" for applications, yes. 01:23:04 what's the final goal of this, running regions within a single app's window, or to make a full window manager desktop style system? 01:23:27 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 01:23:57 Phoodus: I don't know about a "final" goal, but a mid-stage goal is to have a UI toolkit. 01:24:53 and it's going to be bitmap oriented with no graphical scaling? 01:25:32 or more specifically, not intended to be resolution-independent? 01:25:50 The only bitmaps we've been discussing have been for shaped window borders. 01:25:52 nyef: Got to leave for work. I'll try to be here again same time tomorrow, i.e., in about 21 hours or so. 01:26:01 beach: Okay, have fun at work. 01:26:12 Yeah, right. :-) Thanks! 01:26:40 -!- htierno [~htierno@108-100-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:42 beach: FWIW, I'm fairly convinced that the only "hard" case for determining region emptiness is when the region includes the arc of an ellipse as part of its boundary. 01:27:05 nyef: That sounds right. 01:27:38 And an implementation is permitted to disallow compositions that result in a non-simple region involving an ellipse. 01:27:41 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 01:28:17 Anyway, you were going to work, and I was finishing reading your notes before I signed off for the evening. 01:28:33 Yeah, see you! 01:28:59 ... oh. That note on font-size and scaling was the last note. 01:29:45 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29:53 And the answer is that it scales line drawings and relative point positions, even if it doesn't scale font size or bitmaps. 01:30:24 It's almost never used, anyway. 01:33:17 in understanding the distinction between types and classes, would it be pragmatically correct to say that a class is an intrinsically held property of an instance, while a type is an extrinsic predicate? 01:33:48 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 01:33:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 01:33:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:34:02 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:36 Phoodus: That seems more than a bit iffy to me. 01:34:47 Especially since classes /are/ types. 01:36:03 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:17 how would you define the difference between types and classes? 01:36:49 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 01:37:19 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 01:37:19 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 01:37:19 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:37:21 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:18 for instance, (type-of 3) gives (integer 0 ), which is a class, an intrinsic property stored as part of its tag bits. But it's also of type fixnum, unsigned-byte, etc, which could be defined as predicates that it passes 01:40:00 Phoodus: I think the phenomenon/technique of duck-typing strengthens that argument, yes. Maybe it's a question of philosophical standpoint and, possibly orthogonally, of implementation. I suspect the context of the question is critical. 01:40:06 While (class-of 3) gives # on SBCL. 01:40:29 Incidentally, I'm not even vaguely as pretentious as that just made me sound, I promise. 01:40:30 clhs defines fixnum as a type, not a class, though. That's interesting 01:41:06 Phoodus: Look again, probably in the chapter on objects, it says that certain types are also classes. 01:41:26 And all classes are also types. 01:41:45 right, the second I fully agree with 01:41:59 Umm... classes strictly nest, while types are a little more flexible. 01:42:03 I've noticed that types can "inherit" from classes, but not vice versa 01:42:19 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.106.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:22 Phoodus: classes *are* types. 01:42:22 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:42:34 Set theory probably enters into this somewhere. 01:42:40 how to convert into a symbol that can be used in defparameter ? 01:42:41 pkhuong: but there are types that are not classes 01:42:44 And abstract interpretation theory almost certainly does. 01:42:46 *string 01:43:00 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:21 morphism: FIND-SYMBOL or INTERN, perhaps? 01:43:22 morphism: intern 01:43:33 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 01:43:40 davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has joined #lisp 01:44:01 Or GENSYM if you're not too fussed about finding the parameter again later. 01:44:13 I used intern 01:44:18 but 01:44:23 when I make a defmacro 01:44:31 Or MAKE-SYMBOL, also if you're not too fussed about finding the parameter. 01:44:34 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:44:43 why does (type-of -1000000000000000) => bignum, while (type-of 1000000000000) => (INTEGER )? 01:44:47 to force defparameter to use my (intern "variable" ) 01:44:53 regarding types vs classes, I started pondering that since multimethods seem to only dispatch on class, not type 01:45:03 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:45:10 it always say that's not a symbol 01:45:13 I ended up making my threading macro into a threaded version of dotimes, but it seems it is not thread safe, the value of of the stepping var can be wrong, any ideas how I can fix this? http://codepad.org/QiJyWX7o 01:45:15 (defmacro my-defparameter (name value) `(defparameter ,(intern name) value)) (my-defparameter "foo" nil) 01:45:20 morphism: (intern "variable") -> |variable|, not VARIABLE 01:45:32 Phoodus< exactly what it gave me =.= 01:45:50 nyef, so I must add the comma in this case too ? 01:45:51 oconnore: totally implementation-dependent. "because" 01:45:56 morphism: the reader snaps it to uppercase (by default), but intern just takes the string as-is 01:46:07 morphism: (intern "VARIABLE") => VARIABLE maybe? 01:49:34 what is (integer 1 10) specifically, a type but not a class? 01:50:00 is it possible to define a class which is equivalent to the type (integer 1 10)? 01:50:07 Phoodus: if you're the implementation. 01:50:45 but not through standard defclass 01:50:54 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:46 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-nxnkpeuhnlctlwjl] has joined #lisp 01:51:54 just pondering how to get custom predicates into multimethod dispatch decisions 01:52:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:52:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has joined #lisp 01:52:59 even just boolean operators means you have to include a SAT solver in your object system. 01:53:17 right, any sort of customization means that if there are multiple branches, the system cannot determine precedence on its own 01:53:30 nyef,phoodus, thanks , it's really true that upcase string will turn into external symbol under intern function 01:54:00 Umm... no it won't. 01:54:09 "external" symbol generally means exported 01:54:12 Symbol externality is something else entirely. 01:54:51 symbols print surrounded by pipes if there's any exceptions to how the reader would handle its plain name 01:55:06 the lack of pipes just means it needs no special cases in the reader 01:55:26 sorry I mean *Global 01:55:27 =.= 01:55:29 dpn 01:55:38 yes, it doesn't relate to export 01:55:55 actually, |foo| would work just fine as a defvar 01:56:03 btw 01:56:10 you just have to reference it as |foo| instead of *foo* (which reads as *FOO*) 01:56:25 how can I add more character like "*" into a defparameter under defmacro implementation ? 01:56:45 we made a symbol-concatenate function here 01:57:04 which tacks together strings and symbol-names, interning the final result into whatever package the given symbol was in 01:58:22 ok :P 01:58:24 assuming just a single package, (intern (concatenate 'string "*" (symbol-name param) "*")) works 02:00:06 doc_who [~doc_who@138-78-106-96.resnet.smcm.edu] has joined #lisp 02:00:19 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:39 (intern (format nil "*~A*" param)) ? 02:01:06 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:46 I tend to stick to concatenate when building strings, so as not to get bitten by pretty-printing 02:03:56 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:04:53 -!- davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:05:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:11:44 it worked 02:12:47 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:47 hey, how do I add all file with the same ".dat" in a folder into a list ? 02:13:27 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:36 the directory function 02:14:13 Here there be dragons. 02:16:14 morphism: you may want to grab cl-fad 02:16:19 got to be careful with it, since the * wildcard matches slightly different than in plain unix 02:16:33 benny [~benny@i577A8CEB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:16:58 oh 02:17:00 =.= 02:17:01 I' 02:17:27 I'm a bit of awkward to work with add-on lib 02:17:48 wonder if I can write it on myown 02:17:55 morphism: get thee to quicklisp 02:18:34 gigamonkey: Are you still working on Code Quaterly? 02:19:04 symbole: yes. 02:19:11 At this very moment, even. 02:19:46 I got that :P how to use it ? 02:20:06 (ql:quickload "cl-fad") 02:20:16 Then (use-package :cl-fad) 02:20:19 Then use it. 02:21:01 symbole: why? Want to write for it? Or waiting to read it? 02:21:08 Or just wondering what the @#$!@# is taking me so long? 02:21:16 morphism: It's Ediware, so is pretty well documented - http://weitz.de/cl-fad/ 02:21:41 I'd expect that at least part of what's taking so long is lack of writers, right? 02:21:44 Just wondering on the status. But I see that the twitter messages are actually pretty recent. 02:22:06 ah, clhs allows wildcard matching to be implementation-defined 02:22:15 You can also read about much of it here: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-portable-pathname-library.html 02:22:50 symbole: I'm actually planning to start putting up some articles on the web in a matter of a small integer number of weeks. 02:23:05 Just to get some stuff out there. Then once I have enough stuff, I'll do a print issue. 02:23:27 nyef: got it in one. Looks like i'm going to be writing a lot of it myself, at least in the beginning. 02:23:29 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:29 *nyef* immediately thinks of Smalltalk-80 SmallInteger, in CL terms (signed-byte 15). 02:23:35 On the topic of "how do I?" questions: format directives to handle the car and cdr of a dotted pair, as might be returned by 'assoc. gigamonkey's book neatly covers the case of proper lists, but I haven't found this hint either there or in the hyperspec. 02:24:49 jfleming: depending what you mean you might be able to bend ~{ to your will. 02:24:57 hmm, I don't see the SBCL manual as describing how it resolves * in filenames 02:25:28 (directory "*") seems to exclude files with dots in them, while (directory "*.*") includes files with any number of dots 02:25:59 gigamonkey: I was hoping to use that, and figured I hadn't quite worked out the magic key combination. I'm pulling the alist of POST parameters received by hunchentoot, doing various nasty things with them, then trying to print the whole lot to a logfile for debugging goodness. 02:27:07 Ideally, I'd punt them out as "key: value" lines, terminating each pair with a ~%. It'd be a bit neater than the current "format ~{~A~}~%" blunt-instrument approach, which *does* work, but is hellaciously messy. 02:28:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29:03 ah, (pathname-type "*") -> NIL, (pathname-type "*.*") -> :WILD 02:29:24 not sure if that's intentional or not 02:29:37 that's perfectly intentional. 02:29:39 jfleming: I can't see any way to do it. 02:29:46 but it seems kind of DOS-ey :) 02:29:49 Phoodus: what else would you have expected? 02:30:02 "*" = name & type to be wild 02:30:12 gigamonkey: that's actually really reassuring. If you can't see it, then I feel less silly about not finding it :) 02:30:14 That's not how lisp pathnames are parsed. 02:30:24 why list-directory gave me an extra #P along with all directory strings ? 02:30:25 Phoodus: this is not unix or posix. 02:30:33 how to remove it ? 02:30:44 morphism: because they're pathnames. 02:30:47 pjb: right, it isn't, but the spec seems to leave interpretation of wild semantics to the implementation 02:30:52 morphism: you can get strings using NAMESTRING. 02:31:02 pnq [~nick@ACA298C6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:05 so there's nothing saying that "*" = wild name, nil type, is the lisp way afaict 02:31:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:31:26 "*." 02:31:30 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:34 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A4E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:31:43 I might just have to build it iteratively. Or be a complete idiot, use mapcar and append, and turn them into proper lists before handing them to 'format. That should turn a few stomachs. 02:32:02 Phoodus: that's true that for non logical pathnames, pathname parsing is implementation dependant. 02:32:14 Phoodus: you can always use make-pathname to say what you mean. 02:32:33 compare: (make-pathname :name :wild :type nil) (make-pathname :name :wild :type :wild) 02:32:39 right 02:33:00 it's purely the implementation-specific wildcard parsing that didn't give me the least astonishment 02:33:26 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 02:33:43 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38:40 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:39:39 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:43 Got it: mapcar and concatenate to build up the "key: value" pairs, then feed it to format for the linebreaking and punting it to the appropriate output stream. 02:41:07 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:42:47 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:51 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.175] has joined #lisp 02:44:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:23 Transformer [~Transform@68-28-105-227.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:11 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 02:46:38 -!- Transformer [~Transform@68-28-105-227.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:52:12 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.52.195] has joined #lisp 02:53:23 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:54:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:56:35 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-131-96.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:57:35 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:41 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:58 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-237-204.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 03:07:55 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:06 actualmind [~lolwut@93.182.133.18] has joined #lisp 03:08:35 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:45 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:12:51 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:12:58 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:13:50 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:13:56 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:14:39 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:15:05 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:15:09 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:21 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:46 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:16:58 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:18:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:19:22 I love me some format ~r 03:19:45 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 03:23:20 -!- alph_cent [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:37 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:51 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:46 alph_cent [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:02 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 03:34:39 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 03:41:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:44:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:40 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:47 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:59 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA298C6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:06 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:46:59 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:03 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 03:56:31 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:56:51 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 04:02:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hijwxmrlgzhjnagc] has joined #lisp 04:03:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:32 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.238] has joined #lisp 04:09:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:12 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:18 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 04:16:16 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:04 superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 04:18:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.52.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:07 -!- superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has quit [Client Quit] 04:22:01 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-162-110.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 04:30:44 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:33 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:21 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:32 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 04:40:07 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:41:02 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:10 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:38 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:39 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 04:52:34 -!- actualmind [~lolwut@93.182.133.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:40 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 04:55:51 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:20 iori [~iori@p1052-ipbf1608funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:00:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:31 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:46 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:37 evening 05:08:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:10:17 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:49 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:53 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C730D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:59 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:14:41 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dbpdyrfxuaepbpvr] has joined #lisp 05:15:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:16:06 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:44 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:04 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:24:02 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 05:26:30 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:15 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C730D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:17 tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 05:39:16 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 05:39:47 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025103.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 05:41:10 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:58 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.188.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:32 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:48:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:48:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:49:19 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:49:42 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:53:47 enupten [~neptune@117.192.83.101] has joined #lisp 05:57:14 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 06:04:57 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:01 msponge [~msponge@149-169-240-29.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 06:06:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:11:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:12:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:27 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 06:14:55 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:14:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:14:55 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:16:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:17:06 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:21 -!- Hun` [~hun@95-90-10-28-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:00 erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 06:19:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:20:20 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:27:41 -!- iori [~iori@p1052-ipbf1608funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:14 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:21 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:36:20 seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:58 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 06:39:59 -!- splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:43:44 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 06:44:42 -!- seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:51:39 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 06:52:01 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:52:50 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 06:53:17 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 06:55:58 splittist2 [~splittist@254-162.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:04:35 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 07:06:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:16 beach` [~user@116.118.74.14] has joined #lisp 07:13:26 -!- beach [~user@116.118.4.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:58 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:20:07 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:20:36 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:23:03 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:23:26 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-owchyflufvsxfswl] has joined #lisp 07:25:15 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:19 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 07:26:27 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.83.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:28:54 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:29:54 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:33:26 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:33:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:34:12 good morning 07:35:08 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:42 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 07:36:22 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:32 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 07:42:07 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 07:44:23 Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 07:44:48 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vzxxmswevigwrhjj] has joined #lisp 07:45:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:19 -!- anthracite [~anthracit@brln-4dbc5d69.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 07:47:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:48 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-104-177.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:52:29 brodo [~brodo@p5B025103.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:00 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 07:53:11 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-50-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:02 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:54:55 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:55:39 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:57:29 enupten [~neptune@117.192.83.101] has joined #lisp 07:58:52 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:58:58 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 08:01:13 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:02:37 -!- OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:57 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-237-204.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:15 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hijwxmrlgzhjnagc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:12:06 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vzxxmswevigwrhjj] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:14:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hlmkniwtveceyybm] has joined #lisp 08:14:06 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-jepskehqkochpqzw] has joined #lisp 08:17:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:19:08 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:22:33 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:22:45 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 08:23:25 iori [~iori@EM114-48-18-2.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:27:22 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-148.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:29:21 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:30:26 Landr [~user@78-21-55-79.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:30:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hlmkniwtveceyybm] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:32:25 Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 08:32:56 any recommendation for a s-exp editor on windows? unfortunately emacs is a no go. 08:33:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ttigsynnmvzdqhbm] has joined #lisp 08:33:49 snearch [~snearch@f053011166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:14 why not emacs? I've used it an xemacs on windows without issue 08:37:52 and if that doesn't work, you could try cygwin 08:38:11 other than that, I'd try to find some Eclipse lisp project 08:40:06 it would be more profitable to spend time on getting emacs to work. 08:40:26 I'm no emacs fan, but SLIME is the best lisp dev environment 08:42:19 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:30 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 08:43:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75669e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:37 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 Guthur: use vim, that works fine on windows ;-) 08:50:12 sorry on a call, will reply in a few minutess 08:50:39 Guthur, try http://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/ 08:50:45 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:26 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 08:53:39 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:55:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:23 -!- msponge [~msponge@149-169-240-29.nat.asu.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 08:56:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:57:14 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:57:59 -!- udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-zptdpykyvevutqtl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:37 hmm... how do i access the values list? I have three values returning and i need the second one 08:59:16 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7DF87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:59:40 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has joined #lisp 08:59:41 (multiple-value-bind (a b c) (some-func-returns-three) (declare (ignore a c)) ....) 08:59:49 o_O 09:00:06 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-bwqkdtymynjvxmol] has joined #lisp 09:00:28 ahh, i see 09:00:50 or (second (multiple-value-list (some-func-returns-three))), which is shorter but inefficient 09:00:54 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:56 (barring compiler magic optimizing the list away) 09:01:33 yes, m-v-list will do fine 09:01:34 thanks 09:01:44 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ttigsynnmvzdqhbm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:56 I always forget about m-v-list, as I generally use more than 1 value 09:02:02 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:02:10 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ttygzqxmbwxnrlbq] has joined #lisp 09:04:29 Phoodus: xale flip214 spurvewt Thankfully I have emacs working fine, unfortunately it's not a technical issue and more a unfamiliarity resistance thing 09:05:13 then how is something else you are not familiar with either is going to help? 09:05:13 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:16 I am building a testing DSL which uses s-exp based syntax, because I get all the parsing for free with lisp 09:05:33 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:05:47 if you use lisp-mode to edit your files, you'll get CL indenting, which may or may not be what you want 09:05:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:52 So my team mates wont really be doing lisp, but may be editing my DSL scripts 09:06:01 (our sexpr language has things like 'case' where the indentation of the 1st term never matches the &body) 09:06:17 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has joined #lisp 09:06:27 I really wish I could sell them on emacs, but I'm realistic and know it will never happen 09:06:35 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:37 locci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has joined #lisp 09:06:44 Kenjin [~josesanto@89.214.83.205] has joined #lisp 09:06:50 I don't know of any general sexpr editor that isn't tied to lisp somehow 09:06:55 getting them to accept something that isn't 'blessed' by MS will be hard enough 09:07:01 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 09:07:01 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 09:07:01 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 09:08:07 that makes no sense. you rule out emacs because it is unknown, then ask for another unknown alternative. 09:08:22 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:08:43 xale: well I was hoping something that might be a little more familiar 09:08:49 to be fair, other editors tend to have more standard/familiar keybindings 09:08:57 C-x C-p for cut and paste 09:09:03 that sort of thing 09:09:04 C-v? :) 09:09:06 you can set up emacs to do that. 09:09:14 Phoodus: lol yes 09:09:30 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 09:09:48 there is something called 'cua-mode', i think. 09:10:02 specifically for this purpose. 09:10:09 xale: ok, i'll check that out 09:10:12 cheers 09:10:16 that is the main issue 09:10:36 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:49 I can't expect them to learn a whole raft of uncommon key-bindings just to edit some test scripts 09:11:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:11:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:26 hi 09:13:41 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:14:14 I'm making a recursive function with conditional check, but the result list keep having "NIL" as its atom on which the condition wasn't sastisfied 09:14:50 how to only keep the satisfied condition atoms ? 09:14:54 Guthur: there's an "easy" mode for vim, where insert-mode is always active. you could just clear "lispwords", then you should get only paren-defined indenting 09:14:57 -!- locci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:19 with easy mode (especially on windows) CTRL-V,C,X are pre-defined 09:16:11 flip214: Actually vim isn't a bad idea either, we have so components on Linux boxes, and a few of the team are familiar with vi 09:16:21 not a big fan myself though, hehe 09:16:30 so/some 09:16:33 if you've got your own DSL, use lispwords 09:16:45 to declare your indenting wishes 09:17:59 Guthur: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/starting.html#easy 09:18:09 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:53 cool, cheers flip214 09:20:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@webuds163-20.rz.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:21:31 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-18-2.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:31 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:23:49 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.215.97] has joined #lisp 09:24:08 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has joined #lisp 09:24:21 Hi all! 09:25:21 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@webuds163-20.rz.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:29 Hello :) 09:26:02 hi Munksgaard 09:26:33 hi fe[nl]ix :) 09:27:11 cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:16 Landr: nth-value 09:27:18 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:28:40 oh.. doh :< 09:29:07 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:29:16 ok so now i have 8 functions that do nearly the same thing, it has to be possible to shorten this 09:29:31 a-ha! 09:31:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75669e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:01 _iori_ [~iori@EM114-48-18-2.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:34:09 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 09:34:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ttygzqxmbwxnrlbq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:18 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@webuds163-20.rz.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:44 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has joined #lisp 09:36:38 dr_df0 [~krzys@blue1.redefine.pl] has joined #lisp 09:38:59 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 09:42:46 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:43:17 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:59 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:45:14 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@webuds163-20.rz.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:05 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 09:54:35 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:55:30 daniel__ [~daniel@p508292E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:29 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 09:56:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 09:57:45 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B32641A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:58:51 locci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has joined #lisp 09:59:05 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host253-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:25 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-178-003-009-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:45 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:02:00 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:05 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-215-164.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:05 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:49 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:55 reb` [~user@nat/google/x-xofdqwntuxvhrnxo] has joined #lisp 10:05:01 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 10:05:59 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-axslxdjogapavkow] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:05:59 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:10 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 10:06:34 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:38 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:40 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 10:07:01 -!- dr_df0 [~krzys@blue1.redefine.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:07:22 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@89.214.83.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08:42 Posterdati [~tapioca@host253-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:09:20 hey, what's the advantage of using package ? 10:09:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@194.65.73.1] has joined #lisp 10:10:02 so you can have functions called the same thing in different places without conflict 10:10:09 morphism: you can use code from other people with a reduced likelihood of name conflicts. 10:10:13 it jsut gives you a scope within to work 10:10:28 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8E464.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:33 hi all 10:10:43 unless you mean use-package, where I typically just use the colon syntax instead 10:11:01 does anyone know if and how I can do classic debugging with slime? as in breakpoints, steps.... 10:11:03 -!- _iori_ [~iori@EM114-48-18-2.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:18 *Xach* doesn't know, debugs in a different way 10:12:35 different how? 10:12:40 iori [~iori@EM114-48-18-2.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:12:52 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:13:04 I never really felt the need for it until now, but complicated loops are somewhat intransparent 10:13:22 el-maxo: if i end up in the debugger and i'm not sure why from eyeballing the function, i'll recompile the frame with high debug (via C-u C-c C-c) and restart it, then use "v" to jump to the exact form with the error 10:13:36 el-maxo: usually between that and viewing the local values I can figure out my error. 10:13:45 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:04 You can insert (break) forms as well. i don't do that too often, but sometimes it helps. 10:14:28 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-18-2.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:44 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.83.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:15:41 I dont get an error, just unexpected behaviour 10:16:25 el-maxo: inspect is sometimes useful 10:16:33 I use (trace ) for that quite a bit, and sometimes (break), and sometimes (print ...) 10:16:47 (assert) is fine, too 10:16:47 el-maxo: breakpoints and stepping are part of ANSI CL debugger interface 10:17:05 -!- Landr [~user@78-21-55-79.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:17:13 el-maxo: it can sometimes help to paste the code and have someone else look at it and say "well there's your problem right there" 10:17:15 (step ) and (break), (trace) etc. 10:17:38 *Xach* has tried CL:STEP in sbcl once or twice, could not figure out what it was doing 10:18:06 Landr [~user@78-21-55-79.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:18:08 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:15 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:18:19 there's also (invoke-debugger ) 10:19:45 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has joined #lisp 10:20:27 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:21:46 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:21:46 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:30:56 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:46 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-247-11.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:07 and, generally, doing functional programming with some test-cases helps a lot, too - code step by step, bottom-up 10:39:33 trace + functional programming is generally revealing 10:39:48 but I generally fall back to putting in debug output spam, which is pretty annoying 10:39:57 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:40:19 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 10:40:31 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:28 Phoodus: think of it as agilely instrumenting the dynamic contour of the program 10:42:01 but then I leave them in there with macros to enable/disable them, so I have them available for when other things break & send bad data around 10:46:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vjerdwsbhesqtihq] has joined #lisp 10:51:28 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.92] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has joined #lisp 10:56:19 I wrote a macro once that translates a variable and an optional inspect tree into (with-input-from-string ... (inspect ...)) - "deep" debug dumping 11:00:53 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:01:14 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 11:03:25 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:05:22 i really can't tell where the programming stops and the implementation starts 11:05:31 glorious language 11:06:04 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:30 tauntaun [~Crumpet@208.252.23.2] has joined #lisp 11:12:19 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.163.229] has joined #lisp 11:14:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@194.65.73.1] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 11:15:08 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 11:16:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:17:54 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:20:37 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.45.75] has joined #lisp 11:22:56 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:25:04 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 11:26:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:27:58 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 11:31:23 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:48 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:18 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 11:34:08 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:35:00 chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:35:14 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:23 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:21 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vjerdwsbhesqtihq] has left #lisp 11:42:09 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:45 hi 11:44:40 urrah! I was able to perform complete simulation of a three phase bridge feeding a simple resistor using my brand new simulation program completely written in Lisp!!! Urrah 11:45:25 \o/\o/\o/ 11:45:28 great success! 11:45:39 -!- loke [~elias@bb116-14-111-203.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:10 o_O what's a three phase bridge? 11:47:28 wait, no, lemme guess.. electronical simulator? 11:47:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.45.75] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:47:54 Landr: a sorta, more oriented towards electrical problem, involving electrical machines :) 11:48:45 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:49:04 http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 11:49:06 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 11:49:11 I'm in a very beta phase 11:50:33 pnq [~nick@ACA2C7D3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:10 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:51:29 Posterdati: you're in beta, so prone to catastrophic failure? 11:51:43 at least he's past alpha :> 11:51:54 Guthur: no, but there are some minor problem in the code 11:52:03 Guthur: regarding simulation math :) 11:52:09 oh you're code is beta 11:52:18 sorry context confusion, hehe 11:52:22 ok 11:52:38 alpha: it works... sort of, just don't sneeze at it 11:52:50 beta: it works! but it's sneezing all over the place 11:53:02 Guthur: I'm developing the docs too :) 11:54:34 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@208.252.23.2] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:55:20 Joreji [~thomas@86-246.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:57:02 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:58:57 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 12:01:18 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01:28 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 12:02:06 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 12:03:08 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 12:05:13 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:12:30 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.225.171] has joined #lisp 12:13:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:14:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:16:07 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 12:16:27 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.215.97] has left #lisp 12:22:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:19 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 12:23:23 LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:24:40 -!- locci [~nes@93.37.222.91] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 12:26:11 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:19 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has joined #lisp 12:27:01 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:27:05 LiamH1 [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:27:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:13 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:28:54 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:02 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2C7D3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:29:32 cmm [~cmm@79.183.205.247] has joined #lisp 12:30:00 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:41 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 12:31:41 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 12:31:41 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:35:52 -!- LiamH1 is now known as LiamH 12:37:38 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:44:11 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:30 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-1-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:48:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49:58 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.215.97] has joined #lisp 12:51:43 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:51:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:57:00 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 12:57:01 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:03 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:11 snearch [~snearch@f053011166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:21 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:03 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-75-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:03:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-75-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-75-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:05:11 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-75-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:03 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:51 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 13:09:00 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:23 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 13:10:47 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:10:55 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:11:06 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.215.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:54 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-15-185-57.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:12:08 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:12:44 sellout [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 silenius [~silenus@p54947191.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:45 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:19:46 LiamH1 [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:20:32 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 13:23:44 -!- beach` is now known as beach 13:26:17 -!- LiamH1 [~healy@129-2-134-238.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:46 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:30:57 Good morning. 13:32:50 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dbpdyrfxuaepbpvr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:38 Hello ChibaPet. 13:36:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 hello beach 13:37:16 haven't seen for a long time. How are you? 13:37:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:36 <_3b> beach: sicl's sequences.lisp has some merge conflict garbage left in it 13:39:02 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:39:49 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-jepskehqkochpqzw] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:40:53 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-cmdrigonftdostrx] has joined #lisp 13:42:09 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:43 _3b: how awesome is 3bmd? (My hoped-for answer is "super-awesome") 13:43:56 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007019.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 13:45:00 <_3b> Xach: well, i plan to port my stuff to use it, can't say much beyond that 13:45:18 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 13:45:32 <_3b> not completely sure i'd expose it to untrusted input without some testing and/or thinking though 13:46:11 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:32 *_3b* might act differently if i were operating on the scale where i didn't care if a server fell over once in a while 13:48:11 Areil: I am here. But I keep different hours because I am in Ho Chi Minh City for a while. 13:48:15 What's #++? 13:48:25 <_3b> like #+nil but shorter :p 13:48:29 _3b: I'll look into that. Thanks. 13:49:02 *Xach* wonders about the mnemonic value of #+// 13:49:39 beach: I'm fine too. How's your work? 13:50:17 Areil: Going OK. I have given a few Lisp seminars, and I am planning to give a few more soon. 13:50:47 #+/************************** 13:51:06 Areil: And of course, "programming 3" (6 credits) and "programming project 3" (3 credits) were taught in Lisp. 13:51:37 beach: wow. 13:51:47 <_3b> Xach: in more detail, i think 3bmd parses a bit closer to the non-existant markdown spec than the other cl MD lib does, and seems easier to extend (but then i wrote it, so am a bit biased... cliki2 guy seemed to pick it up quickly at least) 13:51:56 Areil: And I decided to use Lisp to illustrate top-down recursive descent parsing in the course "syntax analysis" which gave me the opportunity to talk about memoization as well. 13:52:20 _3b: I'll give it a whirl and report any problems I see. 13:52:23 <_3b> Xach: but on the downside, it is quite slow compared to C parsers, and can eat a /lot/ of memory 13:53:04 I got memory out to here *gestures* 13:53:12 It's great when there is some subject related to cl at school 13:53:27 s/is/are 13:53:27 *_3b* partially works around those by parsing at the paragraph level instead of document, and eventually improvements to esrap should help as well 13:53:54 Areil: Yea. The only course that would typically use something else out of the ones I mentioned would be "syntax analysis" (3 credits). 13:54:00 -!- drdo``` [~user@93.108.205.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:54:18 <_3b> Xach: yeah, probably not an issue unless you have malicious input or parse entire books at once 13:54:19 Areil: Otherwise, the others are taught the same way they are taught in Bordeaux. 13:54:36 <_3b> (or are too cheap to upgrade your VPS like me :) 13:54:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:48 <_3b> at some point soon, i should be merging the extension stuff into main branch, and adding github style code blocks hooked to colorize, which is the remaining thing i need out of it 13:56:27 beach: How about the student? Do they love cl? 13:58:13 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:58:39 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:42 good morning. 13:59:53 Hello Fade 14:00:18 helo, beach. how's the far east today? 14:00:30 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:35 Areil: The students in this group are very hard to please. 14:00:57 beach: They keep wanting harder and harder lisp projects? 14:01:09 Fade: Pretty ordinary day really. Some 34°C max I imagine. Right now 28. 14:01:20 sellout: Not quite no. 14:01:49 :) 14:08:05 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:27 spring has finally just kicked in, here. 14:16:53 -!- cpape [root@linux01.gwdg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:17:46 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:19 ye__ [d5f6d0e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.246.208.226] has joined #lisp 14:19:13 hi, i have a problem running portable allegroserver with CCL 14:19:30 ye__: what's up? 14:19:48 when i load the install.lisp i have an error "There is no package named "FUNDAMENTAL-BINARY-INPUT-STREAM"." 14:19:48 *_3b* wonders if 'try hunchentoot' is a useful suggestion 14:20:06 although its present as ccl:FUNDAMENTAL-BINARY-INPUT-STREAM 14:21:09 ye__: have you tried the portable-aserve package in quicklisp? 14:22:08 ye__: what version of ccl are you using? 14:22:57 same error when I try with quicklisp,it seems they both use asdf 14:23:05 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:19 i'm using lisbox, not sure how to check the version 14:23:25 (lisp-implementation-version) 14:23:49 Anyway, aserve doesn't work in ccl 1.6 due to what looks like a possible usocket issue. 14:24:15 "Version 1.6-r14468M (WindowsX8632)" 14:24:18 ok then 14:24:22 iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:24:37 ahh, blaring rock music 14:24:44 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.163.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:57 no way like hacking while pumped on agressive music 14:24:58 Is there any escape... from noise? 14:25:03 well then, ok 14:25:14 Landr: gee, thanks for making the noise i otherwise would not care about my problem too. 14:25:15 i'm quite a big fan of the lispbox to start with cl 14:25:31 ye__: Actually, looks like aserve has not been updated to keep track of CCL socket API changes. 14:25:39 Xach: i use headphones :< 14:26:02 Landr: they leak 14:26:12 ye__: The issue is in acl-compat/mcl/acl-socket-openmcl.lisp. 14:26:31 *Xach* is not sure if acl-compat/aserve are maintained any more 14:26:34 *Landr* shushes :< 14:27:02 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:27:20 ok, what's the best lib to use to play with a lisp webserver ? 14:27:29 from the lispbox :} 14:27:34 hunchentoot is pretty standard around here. 14:27:48 *Xach* uses hunchentoot 14:28:48 enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has joined #lisp 14:29:02 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:33 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.134] has joined #lisp 14:29:50 will just a (ql:quickload :Hunchentoot) work ? 14:29:58 ye__: works for me in ccl 1.6. 14:30:18 ok then, i'll try it later 14:30:24 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:32 i'm blocked by a firewall for now : ( 14:30:41 or one of the things above that - weblocks, cl-routes 14:30:57 has someone tried tpd2? 14:31:04 and can share some experiences? 14:31:21 I tried to keep tpd2 in quicklisp, but the author refused to synchronize with parenscript changes. 14:31:51 tpd2 seems like an object lesson in premature (over) optimisation. 14:32:06 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.163.229] has joined #lisp 14:34:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:46 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.138.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:03 does parenscript not proof to be bit of a moving target 14:35:19 ...to be fair to the tpd2 author 14:35:52 Guthur: "prove" 14:36:34 fe[nl]ix: I'm on the mailing list and they do seem to change things quite a bit 14:36:56 *udzinari* loves flyspell-mode 14:37:07 vsedach is definitely taking parenscript away from its initial roots. 14:37:13 Guthur: I meant "prove" not "proof" 14:37:34 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 unknown_lamer and drewc have both complained about it. I think unknown_lamer has a 'parenscript-classic' fork. 14:38:04 fe[nl]ix: oh yes I see now 14:38:11 yes indeed prove 14:38:22 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@mail.powersense.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:56 *_3b* sees both targets as useful, sort of like how i'd like a C-style lisp to go with CL 14:39:05 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-215-164.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:07 Guthur: and you're right about parenscript, but there's little to do except fork it 14:39:40 Guthur: maybe you can get together with Clinton and start a proper project 14:40:46 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:20 fe[nl]ix: thanks for thinking of me, but i'll have to leave that pleasure for someone else, hehe 14:43:39 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:34 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:48:47 sacho [~sacho@95-42-64-32.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:50:21 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:30 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:51:25 is there any caveats to eval'ing a macro form in a bordeaux thread? 14:51:26 enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:52:14 Guthur: not any more than doing the same in threadless Common Lisp. 14:52:23 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:26 Guthur: this is not something you want to do if you can avoid it. Try to use a closure instead. 14:52:52 Backtrace: 0: (SB-KERNEL::ODD-KEY-ARGS-ERROR-HANDLER # # # #) 1: (SB-KERNEL:INTERNAL-ERROR #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X7FFFF516D600) #) 2: ("foreign function: #x417B10") 14:52:55 pjb: can't pass a closure in this case unfortunately 14:53:00 I really dont get this backtrace 14:53:01 unless I could serialize it 14:53:20 el-maxo: How about the error message? 14:53:27 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-bwqkdtymynjvxmol] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:33 Xach: odd number of &KEY arguments 14:54:01 there you go. 14:54:15 nope I dont 14:54:18 Guthur: implementation dependent. 14:54:36 symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:56 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:01 pkhuong: you mean there is some implementations that allow serializable closures? 14:55:12 right. 14:55:26 what seems to happen here though is that instead of expanding it starts trying to eval the arglist 14:55:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 14:55:40 Xach: when I check out the "frame" by pressing v in the slime debugger I end up in some sbcl kernel code 14:55:53 el-maxo: What did you evaluate when you got that error message? 14:56:43 Xach: (with-input-from-string (...) (some-function)) 14:57:25 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:58 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:03 *Xach* has nothin' 14:58:17 *_3b* guesses ... is wrong then 14:58:18 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:26 <_3b> or some-function is broken 14:58:32 error out of nothwhere :D 14:58:42 -!- ye__ [d5f6d0e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.246.208.226] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:02 yeah probably, but I dont see how, since I cant trace the error back to that function 14:59:07 if you're on OS X with a not-too-recent SBCL, your backtraces will be truncated; you could upgrade to a fresher version. 14:59:17 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 14:59:38 <_3b> el-maxo: well, neither can we from the information you have provided :/ 14:59:41 lol, el-maxo you accidently solved my issue 14:59:42 linux wiith sbcl 1.0.46 14:59:44 jdz: Good closed headphones don't leak 15:00:09 Guthur: lol, how? 15:00:11 p_l|backup: They do if the listener says "HEY I AM LISTENING TO STUFF, YEAH!" 15:00:18 haha 15:00:22 I will paste the function 15:01:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/121786 15:01:44 I know that it runs until at least the second ERROR statement 15:02:07 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-15-185-57.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:02:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:26 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 15:02:27 el-maxo: sorry false resolution report, still broke 15:02:44 Guthur: at least I gave you false hope ;P 15:03:07 el-maxo: might help to include the other functions, and what you wrote at the REPL to trigger the error. 15:03:17 how is make-table defined? 15:03:22 (or make-media, etc) 15:03:47 they basically just do (list :KEYWORD contents...) 15:04:57 paste away! 15:04:58 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:31 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 15:05:42 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:01 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/121786#1 15:06:05 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:15 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 billitch [~billitch@78.251.32.193] has joined #lisp 15:07:14 oh and the mae-bla functions are REALLY trivial, they really just return lists with preppended :keywords 15:07:18 iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:07:24 s/mae/make 15:08:24 (defun make-table (description rows) "Make a table." (list +table+ description rows)) 15:08:27 etc 15:09:27 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 15:10:01 pnq [~nick@AC8143BF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:03 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:37 el-maxo: it's harder for others to help you if they can't run your code. 15:11:03 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:11:24 ok ok http://paste.lisp.org/display/121786#2 15:11:44 now you have everything, dont laught at my code ;) 15:11:49 not sure if any issue is obvious... http://paste.lisp.org/display/121789 15:12:06 with-pricer is the macro 15:12:25 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:30 but it seems to trying to eval all the parts of the form list instead of expanding 15:12:50 Guthur: is the macro defined? are you sure it's the right symbol? 15:13:20 el-maxo: unrelated tip: read more about PEEK-CHAR in CLHS. be enlightened. then remove EAT-PRE-LEADING-WHITESPACE. 15:13:58 and probably EAT-WHITESPACE too. 15:14:07 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:42 Is there demand for an IDE which could replace Emacs for CL development? Something that's easier to write plugins for, and not a dive in arcane global variables? 15:14:54 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:05 symbole: YES 15:15:10 *_3b* suspects most of that demand is for something specific, as opposed to just 'not emacs' 15:15:11 but it has to be really simple 15:15:24 symbole: The ability to do that would be a pretty valuable skill, and I'm not sure anyone with that skill would spend the time and money necessary to finish the job. 15:15:27 pkhuong: yep, I have used the macro outside the context of this example 15:16:16 symbole: There does see a demand, but many people seem to get over it, or get comfortable in some other way with whatever they want to use. 15:16:18 iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 "seem to be a demand", rather. 15:16:24 climacs! 15:16:30 Or just not use Lisp. 15:17:07 So I'm not in the minority when I say that extanding emacs is a pain? 15:17:16 emacs is a pain 15:17:17 Guthur: and it's the right symbol? 15:17:25 el-maxo: I can't even compile the code you pasted. 15:17:33 symbole: I would bet you're in the minority in this channel. You wouldn't be in the minority in general, since most people don't use Emacs. 15:17:38 pkhuong: whats missing? 15:17:44 PARSE-DOCUMENT and +WHITESPACE-CHARACTERS+ 15:17:50 and an example. 15:18:17 symbole: would you find climacs or hemlock less painful to extend? 15:18:53 -!- xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:36 pkhuong: Haven't heard of them before, but I'll give them a shot. 15:19:41 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:52 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:48 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.80] has joined #lisp 15:20:55 I think emacs and slime are sort of a local maximum. 15:20:57 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:34 pkhuong: +whitespace-characters+ should be just +whitespace+ and PARSE-DOCUMENT is required by PARSE-SECTION which is currently a stuf so just get rid of it, example: (with-input-from-string (*standard-input* (format nil "#media I am a media object.#~%http://foo~%~%")) (parse-object)) 15:21:55 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.26.16] has joined #lisp 15:22:33 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 15:26:38 works here. 15:27:10 modulo the non-constant constants, that is. 15:27:29 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:28:53 tippenein [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007019.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:23 markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-66-34.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:28 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-66-34.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:29:28 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:30:51 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:50 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8143BF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:34:05 pkhuong: enlighten me 15:34:17 xpf [~xpf@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 15:34:31 you use defconstant on values that aren't guaranteed to be EQL. 15:35:19 also, +whitespace-with-newline+ was an improper list 15:35:29 apart from that, your example returns a list without any error here. 15:36:07 hmm ok 15:36:09 thanks 15:36:46 does (cons :a '(:b :c)) produce an improper list? 15:37:11 its return value looks right 15:37:12 erh, no, it's was a proper list, just not constant as well. 15:37:37 so I cant bind constants to lists? 15:38:10 because they might me modified 15:38:14 makes sense 15:40:00 defconstant is only for EQL values: the problem is that it might be evaluated multiple times, and simple things like (eql +x+ +x+) would then not always be true (which can then avalanche into madness) 15:40:59 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:27 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:41:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:03 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:12 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:51:38 -!- splittist2 [~splittist@254-162.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.163.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:52:50 cl-who confuses me 15:53:03 why do i need to give a stream as a parameter when the return value is the same thing? 15:55:31 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:56:41 -!- iori [~iori@EM114-48-146-211.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:38 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:01 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 16:01:48 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:04 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:04:26 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:27 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 16:05:34 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:58 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:07:48 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:33 Landr: the stream is so you can write to it if you want to add arbitrary stuff to the result 16:10:43 HG` [~HG@p5DC05078.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:38 does clisp have threads on windows? 16:21:31 rgibbs [~chatzilla@2965.artic.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:44 don't think it has threads on any platform 16:22:36 Hi. Question: how is opticl equipped for registration? 16:22:43 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:59 Sorry, I meant to direct that to Slyrus, but would be happy to hear anyone else's opinion too :) 16:24:57 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 16:26:12 -!- OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:29 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:27:55 *Xach* finds to his horror that ,sayonaara seems to disconnect all repls, not just the current one 16:28:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@213.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:01 loke [~elias@bb116-14-111-203.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:29:12 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:57 is it a special branch one needs to get the experimental windows threading support for SBCL 16:30:26 it's a separate repo for now. 16:30:39 I'm hoping to find the energy to go through the non-win32-specific stuff over the summer 16:31:05 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:27 pkhuong: were you the one I was talking to (briefly) about Algorithm X yesterday? 16:31:33 Probably. 16:31:45 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:20 I have a bit of a problem: Is there any way (in hunchentoot) to check whether the output stream has been closed without actually trying to send anything to it? When I close the browser that's loading a page, STREAM-OPEN-P still returns non-NIL. However, trying to write to it causes an error to be thrown? 16:34:41 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:34:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:35:46 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 16:39:27 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 16:39:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 16:39:28 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:39:29 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 16:39:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:40:23 Guthur: are you using 0MQ from CL? 16:41:06 Fade: as it happens at the moment, yes 16:41:17 which lisp are you using? 16:41:25 commonly I use C# though, mainly because I develop the binding 16:41:33 i'm using CCL at the moment 16:41:43 but i'm get alot Exception occurred while executing foreign code 16:41:58 the CL examples on the guide all point to "CLisp" so I was curious if you had good luck with other implementations. 16:42:11 I have ran it with SBCL before 16:42:25 that's my preferred target 16:42:31 but I'm on windows for this project so decided to go with CCL 16:42:33 was it stable? 16:42:59 0MQ kind of assumes a pretty posix environment, no? 16:43:30 it is slightly more sane on a posix environment, yes 16:43:44 it lacks proper inproc transport on windows for one thing 16:44:01 yeah, my use would be on Linux 16:44:25 I think it should be fine, the CL binding 16:44:41 I need to dash here though 16:44:46 bus to catch 16:44:48 ciao 16:44:55 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:46:08 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:49:18 danishman [~danishman@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:50:01 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:50:34 -!- alph_cent [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:49 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:54:04 -!- danishman [~danishman@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has left #lisp 16:54:43 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 16:56:53 lujun [~lujun@58.33.89.9] has joined #lisp 16:57:33 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-5.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:57:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:24 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-5.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 17:00:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:00:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 17:02:07 splittist2 [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:02:17 alph_cent [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4F50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:31 Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:33 0MQ is afaik also supported on some distinctly non-posix systems 17:07:38 though things might have changed 17:08:27 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 17:08:30 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 17:09:53 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.26.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:12 i've been reading through the guide, and it seems pretty posixly in general. 17:11:40 'course, i guess that has been true of a lot of server side technologies over the years. 17:12:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:12:51 I remember being surprised when apache made the port to windows. 17:13:00 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:50 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-cmdrigonftdostrx] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:58 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 17:18:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:14 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 17:18:50 TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.38.157] has joined #lisp 17:19:33 p_l|backup: have you used 0MQ? 17:20:23 Fade: no, I just remember happening upon it while researching AMQP and similar some time ago 17:21:31 *nod* 17:21:36 did you end up using AMQP? 17:21:47 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:59 no, didn't have anything to use it for in the end 17:22:24 (and the saddest thing is that I didn't have will nor energy for explorative hacking) 17:23:29 -!- TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.38.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:40 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:26:22 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.96.40] has joined #lisp 17:27:05 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:52 markskilbeck [~mark@host81-132-122-192.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:52 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host81-132-122-192.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:28:52 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:29:33 carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.158] has joined #lisp 17:30:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:30:55 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 17:31:49 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:21 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 17:33:15 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:24 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:56 markskilbeck [~mark@host81-152-166-23.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host81-152-166-23.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:56 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:36:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:19 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:38:43 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:39:05 carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.158] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.45.75] has joined #lisp 17:40:02 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.96.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-246.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:19 hi 17:42:32 -!- gz [~gz@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 17:42:44 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:54 hi Posterdati 17:43:13 does anyone need a circuit simulation program? 17:43:15 lol 17:43:16 :) 17:43:18 No. 17:43:47 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:45:25 well, if i knew how i was wired ..... 17:45:29 lol 17:45:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75669e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:07 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:10 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:11 (solve-circuit homie 0d0 1d0 10) 17:47:31 nil 17:47:40 no solution for you 17:47:50 or Xach too 17:47:52 eheh 17:48:13 Posterdati: is that your project ? 17:48:26 kkopiec [~kkopiec@host109-153-197-129.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:30 Posterdati: circuit simulator with lisp ? 17:48:42 Fade: I've used AMQP/RabbitMQ in Python 17:48:51 http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 17:49:04 j_king: *nod* 17:49:24 josemanuel [~josemanue@64.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:49:34 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:49:34 the protocol is super simple 17:50:03 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 17:50:38 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-248-233-251.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:14 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:30 Hi - beginers question - I am just starting lisp and so trying to visualise commands so my question is: in command cadr I can imagine 'c' stands for cons and 'r' stands for rest what do 'a' and 'd' stand for ? 17:52:11 car and cdr are the two from which that is derives 17:52:20 I mean I know what they do I just try to find keywords for them 17:52:26 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-owchyflufvsxfswl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:52:27 car and cdr 17:53:17 http://www.iwriteiam.nl/HaCAR_CDR.html 17:53:26 kkopiec: CAR and CDR come from mnemonics for certain assembly operations (actually assembler macros) from the computer that lisp was first implemented on 17:53:37 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: udzinari] 17:53:58 homie: yes 17:54:07 homie: developed with sbcl and slime 17:54:36 homie: and I'd like to add a qt interface for it 17:54:45 kkopiec: the original set was actually CPR,CAR,CDR,CTR (four arguments to CONS) 17:55:01 p_l backup| wasn't it PDP-7 or 11 ? 17:55:24 kkopiec: no 17:55:35 The link I posted is useful for this. 17:55:42 PDP-7 and PDP-11 were small-scale machines unfit for people who worked on Lisp :) 17:56:05 ok thanks for responses 17:56:49 p_l: seriously ???!! they where top of the notch unix had been developed on them 17:57:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.96.40] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 kkopiec: Unix was developed on "dirt cheap hardware that the company didn't mind missing" 17:57:47 the PDP-11 was pretty nice 17:57:54 for its time 17:58:19 the PDP-11 transition for Unix happened when Bell decided that it made for a nice office system 18:00:01 -!- rgibbs [~chatzilla@2965.artic.edu] has left #lisp 18:00:11 I was always giving my admiration to DEC machines, in my opinion they where amazing designs for their times 18:01:25 the first lisp happend on an IBM machine 18:01:29 the 701? 18:01:55 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:02:08 that what i'm just finding out under the link provided by ChibaPet 18:02:18 \o/ 18:02:19 otoh, PDP-1, PDP-6 and PDP-10, as well as GE-645/Honeywell 6180 were machines oriented for high-performance work, including scientific computing (that's why thy had 36bit words) 18:02:26 wanderingelf [4817e03d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.61] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 the same for IBM 701 and its kind 18:03:01 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 18:03:03 (c)ontents of (a)ddress register and (c)ontents of (d)ecrement (r)egister, iirc. 18:03:13 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AAE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 that particular trivia is covered in quite a few places. 18:04:11 Fade: well, the "register" part is misnomer, but yeah, those names come from one of the most common instruction formats on IBM 701 which was also adapted for pair storage 18:04:24 (so yeah, executable conses) 18:04:28 *Fade* nods 18:04:57 CONS took 4 arguments, and could be used to construct CPU instructions, not only lists 18:05:11 that, I didn't know. 18:06:05 Fade: the order was CONS(CPR,CAR,CDR,CTR) I believe, which together formed a complete 36bit word 18:06:12 well assuming that cpu instruction is the list of 0's and 1's this should not be a problem ;) 18:06:24 pnq [~nick@ACA5A0F0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:26 kkopiec: it was a stream of 36bit words :) 18:06:49 Posterdati: that's a good idea, qt frontends are looking good 18:06:57 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:07:11 *p_l|backup* has a little hobby of retrocomputing... can be really enlightening about current stuff as well 18:07:27 (mainly in the "everything sucks and there's nothing new because Unix killed research", though) 18:08:07 36bit words, that is interesting 18:08:29 p_l what do you mean ? unix is actually good enough in my opinion 18:08:43 Let us speak instead of Lisp. 18:08:52 ezakimak: it was a requirement for scientific computing before the advent of floating point 18:09:09 kkopiec: even authors of unix considered it deader than dead by 1990 18:09:11 the CADR machine at MIT was a 36bit machine, no? 18:09:16 Fade: yes 18:09:30 the symbolics lispm also inherited this architecture. 18:09:38 I think Ivory was the first LispM to break from 36bit words (to 48bit) 18:09:53 those tag bits turned out to be pretty useful. 18:10:44 Fade: I'm more interested in how the last design of LMI would fare 18:11:02 iirc it was register-oriented, unlike all the others 18:11:22 I don't know very much about the LMI stuff 18:11:38 a MacIvory lispm was my first exposure to lisp, though. 18:12:19 Fade: there's an article on the web about their last, unfinished design. I have to admit that some of my ideas for microcoded Lisp were influenced by it :) 18:12:36 url it up, man. 18:14:15 http://fare.tunes.org/tmp/emergent/kmachine.htm <--- here is something about it 18:14:27 thanks 18:14:41 Joe Marshall has a ton of documentation in a google code project. 18:14:43 *Xach* digs 18:15:23 i still kind of covet a symbolics xl1200 18:15:27 http://code.google.com/p/jrm-code-project/source/browse/ 18:15:29 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:53 I think trunk/{kmachine,lambda} have the docs I was thinking of. 18:15:55 yeah, I looked at that repo 18:16:00 thanks, Xach 18:16:02 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:16:15 alpha with opengenera would be pretty cool too. has anyone actually tryied that? 18:16:41 hypno: I run it on x86-64, and there's official port in the works, supposedly 18:16:54 I recently acquired a pretty large alphaserver, but it doesn't have any display hardware. 18:17:24 (given that you can still buy OG2 from Symbolics, delivered with Alpha workstation to run it, and people are still buying... it's probably prudent of them) 18:17:47 Fade: it doesn't need display hardware, as long as you have some old-enough X server around :) 18:17:52 p_l|backup: oh! it runs natively on x86-64 or under emulation? 18:18:03 neat 18:18:46 hypno: I have the infamous snap4 translated image (basically, a guy with access to VLM2 sources reworked the assembler to produce C code), and I have seen screenshot of official port running on OSX 18:18:48 Fade, does it have a serial port? that's all you really need on a lot of those types of machines 18:18:57 Bronsa [~brace@host35-186-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:19:17 carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.158] has joined #lisp 18:19:24 http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2010-01-30-1<--- here 18:19:32 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:41 ezakimak: I have an Alpha operated through serial port :) 18:19:54 ezakimak: but OpenGenera needs X server 18:20:25 p_l|backup: heh. is it fast enough to be useful? and on usability, how does it stack up against modern alternatives? 18:21:08 that would likely depend greatly on how you defined 'useful' 18:21:09 you run it for nostalgia 18:21:10 hypno: it's a curiosity and recovery tool for old code you need to understand ;P 18:21:15 not for usability 18:21:18 i bet there is no twitter client. :) 18:21:31 but there are other pluses, too! 18:23:17 *Xach* saw a "LAMBDA" license plate today 18:23:30 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:23 personally, I believe there might be use for something like Genera, but not Genera itself - it would have to be a modern system that could run on common hw, similar maybe to how Inferno runs on top of other OSes 18:25:14 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4F50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:05 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:27:03 Xach: surely your local DMV will tell you who owns that. Perhaps you could patronise their restaurant? 18:27:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.96.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:20 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:28:05 "but I don't like lamb" 18:29:12 I thought she was a popular District Attorney? 18:29:24 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:41 p_l|backup: an opengl-based smalltalk like environment would come a long way and be simpler... ;p 18:30:20 something like factor, maybe. 18:30:46 gods almighty I truly am beyond hope 18:30:58 *Landr* has been blumbering through the thicket of cl-who for an hour now 18:31:14 stupid mega-macro 18:31:25 I wouldn't blame cl-who. 18:31:34 :( 18:31:43 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-249-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:32:04 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:32:04 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: necroforest] 18:32:04 it's one of the sanest macros in its genre, particularly because it doesn't try to be seamless. 18:32:41 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:33:03 The evaluation model is a frequent source of questions, mostly because people don't seem to read the documentation of the evaluation model hard enough. 18:34:13 good evening everyone 18:34:20 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:34:27 oh that little ... 18:35:00 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:28 Landr: I recommend you switch to yaclml then 18:35:29 whargarbblaskdfwer 18:35:36 no, it's ok, i found the mistake 18:35:39 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:51 apparently i have to convert strings yet again inside cl-who using "str" 18:35:55 and i didn't notice that 18:36:10 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:36:12 Landr: Read the evaluation rules to find out when you have to do that. 18:36:25 where can I find them? 18:36:40 in the manual. 18:36:49 http://weitz.de/cl-who/#syntax 18:37:01 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.96.40] has joined #lisp 18:37:05 ... 18:37:10 *Landr* feels really stupid now :< 18:39:07 when you feel conflict between your mental model of what's happening and what's actually happening /w edi-ware, it is the self that is usually wrong. 18:39:31 that said, i do prefer the yaclml way. 18:39:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:06 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 hmmm... apparently MIT CONS was 24bit, CADR (including LMI CADR and LM2) were 32bit, and then later models were 36 bit 18:42:26 HG`` [~HG@p5DC04E09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:42:41 only Symbolics went 36bit, apparently LMI and TI kept 32bit architecture 18:43:01 tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:20 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-213.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:57 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05078.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:45:27 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:45:41 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 18:48:49 MoALTz [~no@92.18.87.15] has joined #lisp 18:52:17 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.231.137] has joined #lisp 18:54:38 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:54 pnq1 [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 18:55:54 -!- pnq1 [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:18 David2 [David@horatio-135.cs.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 19:07:53 Hi! Has anyone used Lush? There is no irc channel it seems? 19:08:38 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:34 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.206.51] has joined #lisp 19:13:47 KAU [~Alex@2002:2e77:5f25:c:8aae:1dff:fe39:9234] has joined #lisp 19:14:27 lush? 19:15:25 I know a few. =/ 19:16:21 there's a lush package in ubuntu, so I assume somebody somewhere uses it. 19:16:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.231.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:25 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 19:17:12 Fade: I wouldn't be so sure about that 19:18:15 watch for bitrot 19:18:33 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:40 the dependency on libslang indicates it came out of jed/most land 19:18:43 -!- KAU [~Alex@2002:2e77:5f25:c:8aae:1dff:fe39:9234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:45 *Fade* shrugs 19:18:51 peterhil`: why do you ask? 19:19:32 ssacc [~sa@188-195-201-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:57 kolesov [~Alex@2002:2e77:5f25:c:8aae:1dff:fe39:9234] has joined #lisp 19:22:20 oh Fade, when you said that the ZeroMQ CL examples used clisp did you mean the ones from the guide? 19:22:30 yeah 19:22:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:50 I think it that case it's just that they don't understand that CLisp refers to an implementation 19:22:57 it/in 19:22:59 *Fade* nods 19:23:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA5A0F0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:13 i got that impression, as well. 19:23:20 I can mention it to the author, might save some confusion 19:23:26 but i've seen stuff cooked on clisp that runs nowhere else, so I thought i'd ask around. 19:23:55 zeromq compiles cleanly from quicklisp on sbcl. 19:23:59 on the binding page it mentions they have tested with SBCL CLisp CCL and Lispworks 19:24:26 http://www.zeromq.org/bindings:cl 19:27:26 *nod* 19:27:45 have you ever used the CL bindings in an actual application? 19:27:47 apexi200sx [~apexi200s@cpc2-salf4-0-0-cust701.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:45 not the CL ones, I am building an app now though 19:29:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:29:09 running into some issues actually to be honest, but not sure if it is 0MQ related 19:29:26 I haven't found any breakage just screwing around with it these past couple of days, but that's a long way from using it in anger. :) 19:29:34 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.96.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:52 I'm using CCL on windows, and I'm frequently getting an exception in foreign code 19:30:04 and it's then printing out the register stack 19:30:14 I haven't run into anything like that, but I have linux all the way down, here. 19:30:14 not very nice 19:30:16 what's the exception? 19:30:58 that's about it 'exception in foreign code' or similar, give a few minutes and will probably get it again, and can post the exact text 19:31:47 what's the salient section of the lisp code doing? 19:32:44 stis [~stis@host-90-235-236-153.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:49 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:48 it's a testing framework for our HTTP based server 19:33:59 I'm trying to automate some functional testing 19:34:28 some of the requests take a long time so I was going to use 0MQ to create a testing farm so to speak 19:34:37 ah 19:34:48 with a few workers that would create sessions and do their thing 19:36:24 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@64.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 19:36:28 csamuelson_ [~csamuelso@ec2-50-17-240-121.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:40 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:47 too be honest this part is a massive feature creep, I was only going to run the tests in serial, but then my colleague said 'oh it would be cool if it could run more than one test' 19:36:55 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:37:13 -!- csamuelson_ is now known as csamuelson 19:37:44 but you don't have to use multiple box; it's all IO-bound? 19:38:14 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:39:17 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 19:39:32 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:34 it will be on one box 19:41:41 it's inproc message passing 19:42:40 it just makes parallel processing a lot simpler in my opinion 19:43:29 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:43:57 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@ec2-50-17-240-121.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 19:44:00 the serverside is what takes along time 19:44:02 what's wrong with a 20-loc queue? 19:44:07 all the price solving and stuff 19:45:01 yeah, but I like message passing, hehe 19:45:04 http://lispm.dyndns.org/lisp/pics/clos1.jpg <--- ... such useful image :) 19:45:18 Guthur: it's still a message queue. 19:45:31 but in truth if I get anymore of this foreign memory annoyance I'll probably rip it out 19:45:52 Not sure I'd still call your design "message passing" any more so than any other workqueue. 19:46:12 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:47:47 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:33 how so, I pass messages, a device dispatches them to available workers, and I receive a reply on completion 19:49:02 and I don't have to build any of it, just plug the pieces together 19:50:57 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 19:53:51 hmm 19:53:54 enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has joined #lisp 19:53:58 A concurrent queue is nothing complicated; just add mutual exclusion and condition variables around the normal unthreaded queue. shows how easy it is to take a stupid pop/append queue and make it concurrency-safe. 19:54:32 It's only when you care about performance that things get hairy. 19:54:45 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.79.92] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:25 -!- apexi200sx [~apexi200s@cpc2-salf4-0-0-cust701.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 19:58:16 billitch1 [~billitch@78.251.41.74] has joined #lisp 19:58:38 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:59:49 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.32.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:20 hehe I like the scientific finding at the end 20:04:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:32 pkhuong: stupid question: why does get-work hold the mutex while condition-waiting? 20:04:59 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.26.16] has joined #lisp 20:05:00 won't that block post-work from getting the mutex & condition-notify-ing? 20:06:34 antifuchs: condition-wait has to atomically release the mutex and enqueue itself 20:06:52 ah, oops 20:06:56 well then, that makes sense 20:07:06 otherwise you expose yourself to race conditions (release the mutex, condvar signalled, and only then enqueue) 20:09:59 Fade: I asked about Lush because I want to try if it's easier to make it output some sound on OS X than any Common Lisp implementation. It also seems to have multidimensional arrays and it compiles to C code, all of which are very suitable features for sound synthesis project. 20:10:18 pnq [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 20:10:41 peterhil`: some of the sdl bindings should have what it takes to let you output sound portably without too much fuss. 20:10:46 I noticed Mixalot only have ALSA FFI bindings, and I'd rather not try to make bindings for CoreAudio 20:12:11 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.225.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:13 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 20:12:24 Actually I'd just want to get going with any Lisp style language without first spending two months to figure out where to find suitable libraries that also work on OS X and get some audio/graphics output without too much hazzle. 20:13:21 I'm eager to try some things I have thought about using actor model or Cells for handling control data and timing/scheduling of events. 20:13:58 *sykopomp* doesn't wish Cells on anyone. 20:13:59 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:02 *Xach* has been hacking too long; he looked at (defvar *foo* ...) and thought "Ah, good, defvar. I must have known I was going to change things." Then it took me 5 minutes to figure out why my changes weren't working. 20:14:09 some of the SDL bindings should be perfect to get you audio and graphics output without hassle. 20:14:13 francogrex [~user@109.130.30.28] has joined #lisp 20:14:27 sykopomp: But it's so easy to install now! 20:14:46 Xach: You have done the world a great wrong. 20:14:48 :( 20:14:54 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:55 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:25 *Xach* is just gettin' a-started 20:16:28 next up: all the lisp summer of code projects that went nowhere? (: 20:16:32 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:55 rude! wasn't cffi a SoL project? 20:17:07 Inspired by His Kennyness, no less! 20:17:36 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:36 -!- lbc__ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:20 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 20:18:21 the only good thing kenny ever did 20:18:45 Xach: I was thinking more of the few "we need sockets in lisp" ones (: 20:18:52 fe[nl]ix: in addition to Cells! 20:18:53 Kenny has done plenty of good things. 20:19:09 lisp SoC projects were very good & successful, in general 20:19:24 Xach: such as ? 20:19:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:19:48 fe[nl]ix: he dove deep into arc so no other Lisper had to 20:20:02 Xach: hahah true 20:20:03 ^ 20:20:04 what's the verdict on arc? 20:20:07 that must have been entertaining. 20:20:08 Xach: Hey, PG has done plenty of good things! 20:20:31 his writing is quite good too (the blog, at least) at bringing people to Lisp (IMHO he makes a better case than PG0 20:20:34 ) 20:20:40 -!- kolesov [~Alex@2002:2e77:5f25:c:8aae:1dff:fe39:9234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:00 PGO ? 20:21:18 that's a 0. Like an index. 20:21:19 francogrex: finger slipped on the shift key 20:21:20 finger fumble on the shift key reaching for the closing paren. 20:21:33 heh 20:22:20 (and no, not planning to make dedicated () keys anytime soon... just the appearance of Shift-Space for IME switch has me going in circles last few days) 20:22:44 I wouldn't know, I'm on azerty 20:23:35 any of you guys submit stuff to the rosetta code site? 20:23:42 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:44 one question to people who dealt with Audio: is there an API that doesn't screw with scaling of volume? 20:24:57 I wonder who reviews/approves the codes submitted because the quality of some of them look like they've been written by someone like myself (if you know what I mean) 20:25:28 p_l|backup: the one *you* haven't started writing just yet 20:25:35 lol. well, beggars can't be choosers--lots of free code is not pretty 20:25:44 fe[nl]ix: ... right 20:26:09 ezakimak: I beg to differ 20:26:47 ezakimak: some of the prettiest code is open source... actually most of it, but granted there will be mess among the so many written 20:27:41 lots of code is not pretty 20:28:35 the ugliest stuff you might see in code written in-house 20:28:46 francogrex: the latter is a very dubious claim 20:29:07 ... and then there's some mainframe shops, where the abilities run high... because you really need a wizard to make it run 20:29:08 ok but noone here seems to be a reviewer... 20:29:10 i think it depends on the community, and the community's "standards" of acceptable code 20:29:28 some communities produce more volumes of ugliness than others 20:29:45 but if it works, few ppl complain until they have to modify it 20:30:01 fe[nl]ix: which this: "there will be mess among the so many written" ? 20:30:34 some even think there is no code prettier than no code 20:31:05 francogrex: "actually most of it" 20:31:06 I know but to "sharpen" my skills in cl and other langs I try to learn from the codes submitted there 20:31:35 fe[nl]ix: ah well I have no stats on this just a hunch so yeah may be incorrect 20:32:00 no wonder it's still very blunt then :) 20:32:37 jokoon [zonax@78.251.249.0] has joined #lisp 20:33:38 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:34:31 lanthan [~ze@p54B7E464.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:37:16 -!- cmm [~cmm@79.183.205.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:38:03 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:50 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:39:03 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4F50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:11 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4F50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@host187.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:54 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:36 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host35-186-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:07 ohhh, i see 20:44:13 str and fmt are replacement functions 20:44:24 so i can't use regular format and such 20:45:14 -!- sellout [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:58 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:26 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@78.251.41.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:28 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-56-149-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:34 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.135] has joined #lisp 20:48:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75669e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:55 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-248-233-251.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:49:57 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:39 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:52:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:53:44 hi 20:54:09 is there anyone interested in electrical power systems simulation? 20:54:23 ... didn't you ask it once already? 20:55:07 can it simulated a lisp machine? 20:55:12 simulate 20:56:38 can it simulate the lisp machine it's being simulated on? 20:56:55 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:57:25 actually, i have no idea if that's a paradox or not 20:57:54 Landr: yes! 20:58:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.30.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:15 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:20 Landr: ... no, that's just "waay too slow" 21:07:12 (the interesting issues are about information content - you can't put the same amount of information into "guest" as exists in "host" etc.) 21:09:22 the universe will never know itself? 21:09:31 (..or something..) 21:09:37 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.135] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:10:05 can't it find a mirror or something? 21:10:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:03 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:00 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:43 not that simple 21:13:55 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 21:14:22 well, you could compress information, but then it'd be an abstraction, and not a real simulation 21:14:36 Good morning everyone! 21:15:16 heh, we had this topic the other day 21:15:27 hi beach 21:16:21 is cl-OpenAL not a good option for audio? 21:16:40 I know that topic was a while ago, but I'm curious too 21:17:15 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:36 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B0222BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:55 -!- pnq [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:44 Guthur: depends what you want to do 21:20:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:37 well for me playback, with some processing 21:20:41 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:43 if you want to play with "professional" audio stuff (or, in generic, creation/production of music etc.), then JACK is the way to go. 21:20:46 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025103.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:47 -!- brodo_ is now known as brodo 21:21:11 Doesn't openAL do 3D sound? 21:21:21 OpenAL has been used in some commercial game software, if that counts as professional 21:21:45 Guthur: Games don't do "professional audio" :) 21:21:59 (other than use the production to create the soundtrack) 21:22:11 Commercial software is no criteria: they may just have been too cheap to buy a commercial library :-) 21:22:50 possibly quite true 21:23:03 well, just because a library is commercial doesn't mean it's any better 21:23:15 pjb: it's not about "commercial" - there are "de-facto" APIs related to "professional audio", which might have started through commercial products, but are simply "agreed-upon" standard interface 21:24:23 p_l|backup, you're going on quite a double-quotes binge 21:24:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:25:09 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 21:25:23 On most unices (other than OSX), the way to go for "studio" kind of work is JACK (often used on other platforms as well), quite a lot of tools on OSX work with CoreAudio (which fortunately includes a variation of popular audio plugin API), and there's also ASIO (at least on windows, iirc) for device access 21:25:24 double quota exceeded. please insert parens into material feed tray. 21:26:37 "PC load lambda", what the hell does that mean? 21:26:56 ahahaha 21:26:58 Landr: it means Knights got you 21:26:59 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B0222BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 21:27:16 the ones that say () ? 21:27:17 Landr: it means the processor will jump to the given lambda. 21:27:53 Landr: in a continuation passing lisp machine. 21:27:54 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl4-7-82.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:28:05 I believe some people are missing the reference to office space (: 21:28:18 :> 21:28:32 People didn't want to jump to conclusions. 21:28:35 Did I miss references to lambda in Office Space? 21:29:09 a *jump* to *conclusions* mat 21:29:09 I see you used the wrong cover sheet on your CDR report 21:29:50 Ok. 21:31:37 lnostdal-laptop: no due to godel theorem 21:32:02 gigamonkey: hi, how are you ? 21:32:13 Good. 21:32:19 How are you? 21:32:26 fine thanks 21:32:52 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:48 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:29 stassats: thanks a lot for your bug report, btw -- you saved me a LOT of embarrassment. 21:38:01 you're welcome 21:38:46 -!- symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:23 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 21:41:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:03 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:23 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-152.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:13 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:43:35 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:31 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:45:07 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:45:34 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-1-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 21:47:43 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-1-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:48:02 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:45 -!- talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:49 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-236-153.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:52 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:57:47 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:58:32 -!- jokoon [zonax@78.251.249.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:33 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:32 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@157.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:04 jmbr [~jmbr@157.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:13:57 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:39 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC04E09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:32 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 22:18:35 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:19:26 -!- pearle [~pearle@24.224.181.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:45 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 22:24:36 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:45 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:32:59 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:35 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:49 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:34:22 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:36:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:16 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:03 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:08 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 22:43:14 -!- ssacc [~sa@188-195-201-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:09 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 22:46:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:49:34 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:50:37 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:39 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:20 Younder [~john@41.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:51:42 -!- David2 [David@horatio-135.cs.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:52:24 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:10 TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.38.157] has joined #lisp 22:58:07 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-5.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:58:17 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:58:38 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-5.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 22:59:04 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947191.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:06 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:59:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:59:42 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-248-233-251.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:04 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:04 -!- TheRealLongshot_ is now known as TheRealLongshot 23:01:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:01:40 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 23:02:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:51 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:52 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:19 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 23:04:53 Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:05:12 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:05:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:42 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.45.75] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:11:06 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 23:11:19 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:35 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.157.50] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-230.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:17:02 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-131-96.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:17 Hello all. 23:18:11 Heyla 23:18:19 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:44 hey nyef 23:18:56 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:20:36 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:20:43 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.157.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:32 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:48 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:19 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:31 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 23:24:44 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:32 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:25:57 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:58 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #lisp 23:26:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:54 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:13 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8CEB.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:54 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:56 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:31 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:36:53 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:10 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.157.50] has joined #lisp 23:41:05 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Error: Out of Cheese] 23:41:19 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:48:14 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:48:56 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:49:02 xan_ [~xan@199.83.221.5] has joined #lisp 23:50:29 markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-35-123.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:29 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-35-123.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:50:29 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 23:59:41 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp