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[~Elizabeth@c-67-184-252-32.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:14 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 02:01:28 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:02:10 -!- paul0` [~user@200.146.60.99.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:38 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:23 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:56 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 02:12:03 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:03 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.238.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:13:38 -!- arquebus [~arquebus@201.160.3.219.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has left #lisp 02:14:28 spaceinvader [~ec2-user@unaffiliated/spaceinvader] has joined #lisp 02:14:51 hiya, how can I sum a list (i.e. [1, 2, 3] = 6) under maxima/macsyma? 02:15:29 I don't know. I would read maxima documentation... 02:16:41 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:05 anything I find is about algebraic sums 02:17:34 lreduce and rreduce, it seems. 02:17:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-84.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:09 maybe something like sum, or an l_1 norm if that's what you want. 02:18:14 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.251] has joined #lisp 02:20:45 cheers 02:20:56 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:23 -!- yesimnat1an is now known as yesimnathan 02:22:48 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:41 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:35:23 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 02:35:50 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:21 ion_cannon [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:04 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@rrcs-64-183-86-53.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:51:17 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@130.Red-79-149-148.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:52:48 argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-98-65-190-11.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:38 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:08 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:28 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:59:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:53 evening 03:01:03 and happy new month! 03:08:41 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:08:54 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 03:09:36 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 03:09:47 slyrus: you out of your normal time zone? 03:09:52 Oh, never mind. 03:09:56 *gigamonkey* is behind a day. 03:16:47 -!- mtd__ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:17:08 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:17:28 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:31 mtd__ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:01 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:24:08 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:27:46 rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:28:06 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-98-65-190-11.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:18 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.24] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:34:39 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 03:38:47 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 03:39:48 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.80] has joined #lisp 03:41:32 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:42:12 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:42:18 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:53 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.251] has joined #lisp 03:45:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:45:42 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:46:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:46:50 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 03:47:20 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:45 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:58:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:58:36 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 03:59:48 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:03:13 KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.230.144] has joined #lisp 04:03:29 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:03:56 lemoinem [~swoog@180-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:40 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:08:50 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-27-157-225.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:10:18 orivej [~orivej@95-28-110-190.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:10:48 -!- ion_cannon [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:41 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has joined #lisp 04:16:26 how do i remove signed word to integer coercions? 04:18:39 You might not be able to. 04:20:44 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:20 hi lisp 04:28:38 xale: what do you want to do? 04:28:54 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-216-149.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:06 Xach: what does "removing a word from an integer" mean? 04:29:12 s/Xach/xale/ 04:30:43 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:13 loke [~elias@bb121-6-212-147.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:33:55 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 04:35:06 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 04:35:41 xale: do you mean find out the absolute value of a negative value? There is an ABS function for that 04:38:16 could this be a 32bit word vs 64 bit int issue? 04:38:23 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 04:39:50 or boxing? 04:39:53 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:25 If I add a new slot (field) to a structure, will I lose the data saved before the new slot was added? 04:44:08 CL doesn't support adding slots to structures. 04:44:13 yes, unless your lisp knows how to upgrade structures. 04:44:25 So you'll need to refer to the implementation documentation. 04:44:53 I'm using SBCL. 04:45:09 sbcl should warn you about the consequences of that! 04:45:44 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 04:46:31 What about adding slots to objects (using CLOS)? 04:47:10 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:47:37 -!- macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.94.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:56 a possible consequence of allowing to add slots to structures dynamically could be performance; use CLOS if you want that kind of functionality 04:48:02 CLOS has an update protocol for standard instances. 04:48:17 Also, consider list and vector backed structs. 04:48:34 How would you find the instances? 04:49:05 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7E295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:34 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7CD66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:51:46 phadthai, I just want to recompile with a new slot, not add a slot at run time. 04:53:02 xale: do you no longer need help with your question of 35 minutes ago? 04:53:14 oh... still though, because most implementations can be assumed to optimize slot access, redefinition of a structure could yield odd results, including crashes in implementations not forbidding it 04:53:45 i.e. accessing an old instance after a redefinition 04:54:06 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:40 and already compiled modules making use of that older definition 04:55:12 on implementations only warning about it, I guess that if you're real careful it could be done, but is it worth the hassle? 04:59:43 Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 05:01:39 Zhivago, xale, and phadthai, ok, sounds like a person had better know for certain what slots will be needed before entering data. That is pretty inflexible. 05:02:07 Thanks for answering my question. 05:03:07 indeed, although CLOS is very flexible in that reguard 05:04:56 Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 05:05:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:07:02 phadthai, that is a very big reason to use CLOS instead of structures, at least for me. 05:07:22 sure 05:07:49 for more static code, or where performance is very important though, using structures can be worth it too 05:10:42 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-206.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:16 phadthai, interesting. 05:17:01 Zhivago, are you saying there is something special about list and vector backed structs in regards to this issue? 05:17:18 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:59 All of the slots in the particular structure I'm referring to hold strings. 05:23:53 hmm perhaps also see if using a hash table wouldn't suit your goal better, depending on what you're doing 05:25:20 I don't really see how using list or vector backed structures would avoid the static issues here, as the index offset would be known at compile time too I think 05:25:25 orivej_ [~orivej@93-80-98-142.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:25:38 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-28-110-190.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:26:13 It complicates the update protocol. 05:26:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:53 I agree 05:29:36 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:31:42 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.230.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-47-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35:04 kami``` [~user@p5B20EC8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:56 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8101A3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:45 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:41:07 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C3B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:07 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:32 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:16 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:30 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55:22 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7E295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:28 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:55 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 06:04:57 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C3B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:18 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-186-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:05:32 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:16 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:10:34 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:12:35 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-206.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:16:18 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:24:40 Zhivago and phadthai, many thanks for the feedback! 06:25:17 you're welcome 06:26:13 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 06:27:48 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:28:35 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:30:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:31:08 Another question. I've just finished reading "Ansi Common Lisp" by Paul Graham. Chapter 13 is about speed. I notice that all of the examples deal with numbers. I almost always work with strings. Can code processing strings be optimized also? 06:33:06 well, depending on what you do - symbols might be better, because comparing them is much faster 06:33:21 so if you're eg. implementing another progamming language, use symbols. 06:33:53 if you're parsing text files, you won't have much chance to do otherwise - unless you're storing some parts for later use 06:35:01 flip214, the strings have to remain strings, 06:35:18 as they are used by another program later. 06:35:34 do you know that they're only ascii, or (surely) UTF8 or something similar? 06:36:13 perhaps you could get by with (unsigned-byte 8) instead of characters, and simple-arrays - then you'd save (on sbcl) ¾ of the data size 06:36:22 which would help registers, cache, etc. 06:36:25 They are UTF8. Greek and English mixed. 06:36:47 splittist2 [~splittist@103-25.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:37:08 do you need to parse UTF8 characters, eg. with RE or something like that? or can you treat the data as bytes? 06:37:40 morning 06:38:05 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 06:38:05 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 06:38:05 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:38:06 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:38:22 drl: is what you're doing currently unbearably slow? if it is, is it a problem with string processing or the nature of your algorithm? 06:39:06 Krystof_ [~csr21@2.26.222.167] has joined #lisp 06:39:13 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 06:39:21 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-164-65.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:28 flip214, at its core the program finds greek words and replaces them with English words. 06:40:19 saterus, actually the program is quite fast. But being a little faster yet would be nice. 06:40:38 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:40:41 drl: you've determined that this is the bottleneck? 06:41:11 saterus, yes. 06:41:32 jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.35.206] has joined #lisp 06:42:53 drl: if you're (in effect) only replacing some bytes with some other bytes, try using bytes. 06:45:36 flip214, I'm not sure what you mean, but the words differ in length. And by words I mean natural language words. 06:46:31 yes, of course. but I'm fairly sure it's much faster to replace (1 2 3) by (4 5 6) if the individual data points are only _bytes_ instead of _int32_ (on sbcl, don't know about your implementation) 06:46:56 If you don't convert the input text to characters (but leave them as bytes), you'll save ¾ of data. 06:47:11 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:47:15 so only ¼ to process - that should be faster by (about) 75% ;-) 06:47:58 If you know the input and output UTF8 sequences, convert them to bytes, and do search/replace on the bytes. 06:48:07 that they're not the same length is irrelevant. 06:48:13 drl: sorry if I'm missing context, but what do you do with the text once you've done the replacement? Could you just create a data structure that indexes into the input text with the replacement text, which you could use when writing out the changed text? 06:48:49 flip214, OK, I see what you mean. Good idea. 06:49:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:50:48 splittist, how would that be done? 06:54:31 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:56:15 splittist, the program may find a unique word 2000 times or more in the document, 06:56:37 replacing it each time. 06:57:21 How can you find a unique word more than once? 06:57:58 dr1: you could store a vector of triples of starting index, ending index and replacement. As you write out you track where you are, and when you hit a starting index you write out the replacement then skip to (after) the ending index. Or a million other ways. 06:58:28 (Such as interning the replacement text so you don't have to repeat it 2000 times, for example.) I 06:58:43 'm assuming the changes are small relative to the text. 06:59:24 bsdboy [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:59:25 -!- bsdboy [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Client Quit] 06:59:56 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:01:24 hm, nice. using a bit array under sbcl for booleans is actually a bit faster than using a bigger type. 07:02:16 Zhivago, it is unique in how it is spelled, and thus different from all words spelled differently. 07:02:45 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 07:03:13 drl: can you process the data streaming, ie. without loading the whole input? 07:03:48 if you can keep the "active" data below eg. 32kB, it might even fit in 1st level cache - and there's quite a difference then 07:06:26 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:07:02 splittist, thanks. I'll have to give this some thought, and do some experimenting. Thanks for the idea! Slowly I'm learning. 07:07:37 ehu [~ehuels@mail.zoodk.cz] has joined #lisp 07:08:51 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:10:01 flip214, I didn't know that. That _is_ interesting. 07:11:03 Hmmm, another idea for you: if the data is big, some time might be lost loading data from disk. 07:11:17 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:11:19 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:46 You might get the OS to pre-fetch data by eg. mmap()ing the input file; and then directly write portions of that to the output, interspersed with your substituted strings. 07:12:19 but in this case you'll need a fast RAID to keep up with the CPU anyway 07:12:38 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 07:13:16 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:14:25 Krystof [~csr21@2.26.240.254] has joined #lisp 07:15:14 -!- Krystof_ [~csr21@2.26.222.167] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:15:40 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:04 brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:21 Krystof_ [~csr21@2.26.240.220] has joined #lisp 07:19:25 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-186-53.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:20:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@2.26.240.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:12 flip214, I would need to load the file into memory by calling mmap using the FFI? 07:22:43 not on sbcl - there's sb-posix:mmap. are you on sbcl? I could send you an example 07:23:24 flip214, yes, I'm using SBCL. 07:23:38 -!- Krystof_ [~csr21@2.26.240.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:44 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:24:48 drl: of course, a linear mmap() would trash your CPU caches ... but as I wrote, you'll be IO bound anyway 07:25:07 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:50 hmm, paste.lisp.org still down ... 07:25:59 oh no, it just took a while 07:27:15 drl: http://paste.lisp.org/+2LWR for a quick'n'dirty mmap example. 07:27:25 agumonkey [agumonkey@150.59.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:33 Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 07:27:44 Please note that for search/replace it wouldn't be necessary to look at every byte ... see the GNU grep sources for more information. 07:27:57 but that will be massive overkill in your situation, I think 07:28:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@mail.zoodk.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:29:08 drl: if you get that working with bytes, please share how much it got faster. Thank you! 07:29:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:30:00 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:24 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:30:25 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:30:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has joined #lisp 07:31:26 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:31:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:32:40 Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 07:34:35 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:31 flip214, OK, but don't expect anything soon. It will take a while for me to learn how to use everything I've learned today. Many thanks to all of you that have taught me today! 07:36:00 drl: don't worry, be happy .... take your time 07:36:54 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:45 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:42:48 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45:49 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002924.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:51 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:50:33 superflit_ [~superflit@67-41-202-224.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:55 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 07:52:53 -!- superflit [~superflit@67-41-202-224.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:53 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 07:53:19 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 07:53:19 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 07:53:19 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:54:14 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-116-85.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:55:44 sacho [~sacho@95-42-64-32.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:56:14 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-abrdgakmocqfcfhm] has joined #lisp 07:58:04 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:58:37 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-50-142.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:05 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:07:27 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:49 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:12:32 KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.230.144] has joined #lisp 08:13:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:13:27 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 08:18:01 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ihmziwdukmzlqzrh] has joined #lisp 08:22:06 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:01 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:25:08 good morning 08:26:05 morning mvilleneuve! 08:27:23 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 08:27:59 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002924.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:13 franco [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 08:29:36 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-64-32.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:44 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:33:55 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:37:14 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:41:09 -!- franco [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:41:42 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 08:44:06 francogr` [~user@109.130.58.155] has joined #lisp 08:44:29 -!- francogr` is now known as franco2 08:44:59 -!- franco2 [~user@109.130.58.155] has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:17 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:35 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:37 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:45:54 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:24 jmbr [~jmbr@34.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:48:38 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 08:50:11 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:35 -!- eli [~eli@129.10.115.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:52:23 -!- c|mell [~cmell@195.7.7.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:56:39 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 08:56:59 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:59:42 brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:04 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-197-52.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:09:36 HET2 [~diman@host81-159-163-109.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:09 salva_oz [~kvirc@46.Red-95-124-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:22 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-151-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:16 Krystof [~csr21@2.26.214.148] has joined #lisp 09:23:42 _danb_ [~user@124-168-14-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:24:13 lewis1711 [~lewis@222-155-160-175.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:24:46 stis [~stis@host-90-235-22-69.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:44 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:26:07 So there's a common standard for indenting lisp source, that will cause you to recieve much nagging if you deviate from it. the only text editor that seems to do this type of indenting is emacs. why does the lisp community not see this as a problem? the set of people that want to learn lisp is much larger than the intersection of people who want to learn lisp and emacs. 09:26:42 lewis1711: vim does a good job, too. 09:26:47 Two spaces. 09:27:08 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@46.Red-95-124-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:27:29 Line things up under if, cond, etc. 09:27:34 There's not really much to it. 09:28:04 guess I'll just do it semi manually (vims lisp indent variates from The One True Style somewhat) 09:28:37 lewis1711: what editor are you trying to use that is indenting "incorrectly"? vim? 09:28:50 yes 09:30:56 billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.196] has joined #lisp 09:32:52 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:33:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:22 I find emacs style a bit ugly as well. 09:36:02 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 09:36:18 I like 09:36:20 (cond 09:36:20 (foo 09:36:20 bar)) 09:36:45 I quite like 09:36:54 (if foo 09:36:54 bar) 09:37:05 but vim seems intent on 09:37:11 (if foo 09:37:11 bar) 09:37:11 I want the foo and bar to align vertically. 09:37:18 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 09:37:40 lewis1711: modify the lispwords option 09:39:53 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-142-199-74.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:54 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:40:11 flip214: didn't know about lispwords. handy. thanks for the tip 09:40:35 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:41:10 lewis1711: do you know about slimv? Even if you don't use the repl/slime stuff, the paredit(ish) additions are great. IMHO, of course. 09:42:53 lewis1711: there's more people worried about lack of SLIME on other editors than people worried about ViM not indenting correctly 09:43:54 -!- Spion__ [~spion@79.125.200.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:43:55 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:45:45 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:33 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:48:42 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 09:50:23 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:27 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-197-52.uio.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:32 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:07 Guest36338 [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 09:53:45 -!- Guest36338 [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:08 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.35.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:56:43 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:45 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:57:11 cch [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 10:00:20 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:01:47 cfy` [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has joined #lisp 10:02:13 -!- cfy` is now known as Guest59660 10:03:56 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.42] has joined #lisp 10:04:58 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:05:15 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-159-163-109.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:05:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-54-61.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:05:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-54-61.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:05:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:06:54 flip214: how do you modify lisp words, exactly? I can't find diddly squat on it online, or in vims help 10:07:07 set lispwords+=if 10:07:10 set lispwords-=if 10:07:24 :help set 10:07:42 :help lisp 10:08:03 lewis1711: and use the slimv plugin 10:08:43 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:08:44 Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:48 I was already at :h lispwords. nevermind:P 10:10:58 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:13:07 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@222-155-160-175.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 10:13:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:14:47 -!- Guest59660 is now known as cfy 10:14:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.73] has quit [Changing host] 10:14:48 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.196] has joined #lisp 10:18:41 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:53 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-197-52.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:26:21 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:30 longfin [~longfin@59.10.230.247] has joined #lisp 10:35:44 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rrifiplbqgkkbvzf] has joined #lisp 10:35:56 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.85.88] has joined #lisp 10:40:32 let say you have function F in package :A. now, package :B and :C both have the variable *VAR* set to something. can F be called, such that it will always evaluate *VAR* dependant on what package I'm in? 10:42:35 what do you mean by being in a package? 10:43:41 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:01 actually, i just want the same kind of functionality you get with IN-PACKAGE and *PACKAGE*. 10:45:22 ie, if i do (in-package :c), (b::foo) and foo prints *PACKAGE* it will print "package C" or somesuch. i want the same behaviour, but for my own defined variables. 10:46:40 hypno: You want file-local variables? 10:47:12 hypno: http://www.didierverna.com/sciblog/index.php?post/2011/04/26/ASDF-FLV-and-a-new-CDR-proposal 10:47:22 hypno: No. 10:47:50 hypno: *var* is a symbol and packages map strings to symbols. 10:48:07 hypno: If you want to use packages, then you need foo:*var* and bar:*var*, or something of that sort. 10:48:17 hypno: This is the difference between namespaces and modules. 10:48:30 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.202.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48:32 Zhivago: Ok. Is this a retarded thing to want in the first place? 10:48:49 hypno: Possibly. What problem are you trying to solve? 10:49:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:49:29 I think there's probably a conceptual error as well. 10:49:40 *package* is fundamentally a lexical mechanism. 10:50:04 It's useful when F is being read in, but irrelevant thereafter. 10:51:03 Zhivago: To take but one arbitrary example. Say you want to have unix commands in your repl. You want to designate different hosts with the package name. you want commands that you execute (functions preferably defined in a separate package) to do their thing based on the package you're in. ie, (commands:ls), should list files on host "A" if *package* is "A"... 10:51:10 All *package* does is let you write bar instead of foo:bar, if *package* set to the foo package. 10:51:26 I think you're confusing packages with modules. 10:51:49 CL has namespaces, python has modules. 10:53:09 -!- longfin [~longfin@59.10.230.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:10 Zhivago: ok, thanks. i'll go read up on packages... 10:53:16 commands:ls is a single symbol. 10:53:34 It isn't looking some value of ls in commands. 10:53:35 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rrifiplbqgkkbvzf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:54:13 Think more along the lines of pronoun:I verb:go noun:home 10:54:24 Disambiguation, not dispatch. 10:55:09 HET2 [~diman@host81-159-163-109.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:38 Ah. Maybe I've misunderstood. 10:58:58 You can certainly use the value of *package* if you like, but I don't understand how that relates to a host. 11:00:30 superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 11:00:58 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:49 Zhivago: well, just a way of addressing hosts in this case. ie, host-a> (ls), should give a list of files on a. host-b> (ls) on b and so forth. by changing the package, you're changing the machine. kind of like a shell. 11:01:51 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:02:46 Zhivago: what i'm /really/ after is a way to define *ORACLE-SID* and stuff like that, have macros that generates packages and LS, COPY and similiar stunts will perform operations on a database instead of a unix fs. 11:02:48 Sounds completely insane to try to use packages for that. 11:03:00 I suggest that you make a *host* or something 11:03:10 heh 11:04:08 Why not just write polymorphic operators and have them default to operate on *host*? 11:04:11 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:04:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:35 Also, presumably you'll want things like copy between hosts. 11:04:43 Yes, indeed. 11:04:52 In which case generating versions won't work well. 11:05:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:05:17 (defgeneric cp (from to)) <- why not something like this? 11:05:17 longfin [~longfin@1.97.130.193] has joined #lisp 11:06:04 Then if from or to are strings, you can convert them to paths using *host* or something. 11:06:13 stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-140-6.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:48 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-22-69.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:06:52 ah, yes. i actually have done it like that. the package-stunt was mostly to get some nice info at the repl heh. 11:06:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:10:57 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 11:13:44 -!- Krystof [~csr21@2.26.214.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15:42 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 11:17:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vhoztpakjsmsuhhp] has joined #lisp 11:17:38 hypno: easy enough to write your own repl with your own collection of interesting prompts. 11:17:49 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 11:17:49 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:215:5200:0:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 11:17:49 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:17:57 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.97.130.193] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:32 splittist2: yeah. i think that is probably the way to go here, considering non-lispers are likely to use it, and i rather not expose parens to users anyway. 11:28:49 longfin [~longfin@175.218.125.113] has joined #lisp 11:30:16 gffa 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[~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 12:36:11 jmbr [~jmbr@157.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:37:02 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:37:03 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 12:39:32 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@83.Red-88-31-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:42:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:14 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:53:07 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mzfqkjubcsegulns] has joined #lisp 12:56:18 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-14-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:07 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.81] has joined #lisp 13:07:11 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.38.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:26 hypno: Rob Warnock wrote about a REPL that he gave to non-lispers that removed one layer of parens, and users seemed to like it. 13:08:39 hypno: he called it OPFR and he released the code for it 13:09:01 http://rpw3.org/hacks/lisp/opfr.lisp 13:13:44 -!- stis__ [~stis@host-90-235-11-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:14:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:37 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:13 rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:20:26 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 13:25:27 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has joined #lisp 13:26:04 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:48 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:28:39 *Xach* is reading "LISP, Lore, and Logic" and comes across an abuse of "it's" 13:28:51 "...but it's evaluation resulted in an error..." 13:28:58 heh 13:29:42 how can you pass the current environment to a macroexpand 13:30:33 attila_lendvai: D'oh, it's one of the best and powerful ORMs I have met :) (DataMapper was nice, but wasn't as extensible, and Sequel was closer to LINQ ideals and possibly not as powerful due to being written in Ruby :P) 13:30:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:57 *p_l|backup* thinks he should put his "easy-perec" package online 13:31:00 Guthur: you have to receive the argument in the &environment argument of e.g. defmacro first. 13:32:19 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:32:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-159-163-109.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:32:28 p_l|backup: any care/doc/tutorial is welcome 13:32:31 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:32:37 Xach, ok, thanks, though in truth I think my design is not right here 13:33:41 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:10 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34:28 attila_lendvai: in my case it's just a package that patches/reexport certain things and makes it easier to type (giving just perec: packag) 13:34:59 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:45 -!- adhoc [~adhoc@ppp118-210-92-105.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:36:28 Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 13:36:48 Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 13:37:05 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:39:19 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:40:14 perec seems also like a wonderful example for noobs regarding why it's worth to learn :D 13:41:26 p_l|backup: what do you mean by that? there are many examples why it's a good idea to learn... :) but what's special about perec? 13:41:58 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:52 attila_lendvai: it's a specific, production code doing something that is needed quite often, which can be molded easily (compared to other ORMs) to do quite complex things 13:43:05 pnq [~nick@ACA20B26.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:14 that is, it hits home with "it's something I might actually use" 13:43:52 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:55 p_l|backup: c'mon, the project euler problems are practical things you might use every day too. 13:44:09 *Xach* hopes someone bundles it up as a reusable library 13:44:27 Xach: and most can be solved with brute force using maxima/octave/mathematica/whatever 13:44:40 well, we've put quite some effort in factoring out as much as we can... which pretty much lies dormant now, after finishing 2 projects with the built machine. we have an orthogonal authorization system, a web based meta-gui feeding from the perec model metadata, etc 13:45:08 Xach: so, sure, they can prompt interesting solutions and code, but it's still just a prompt, not the actual result :) 13:46:29 attila_lendvai: I recall that one project that was done for government-related task, but is the other public? 13:46:31 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 13:47:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:19 p_l|backup: both of them are for hungarian ministries (education and municipalities). they are behind a login... 13:49:21 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:10 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 ah 13:50:55 It would be nic to har the story behind those projects one day, though :-) 13:51:40 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DDB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:43 Bronsa [~brace@host130-184-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:54:46 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:55:00 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:57:01 we should first do some facelifting on dwim.hu so that we can put actual content there... :) 13:57:31 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:18 -!- cch [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:58:21 haha 14:00:18 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:01 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 14:02:04 -!- Intensity [GcftspiTkh@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:51 p_l|backup instead of "giving just perec: package" why not used cl-package-aliases? ;-) 14:05:03 algal_ [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:05:22 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:22 -!- algal_ is now known as algal 14:05:24 namespaces (packages) in CL are not too sophisticated to say the least... so we prefer if integrators (users) give nicknames to the packages to avoid clashes... 14:07:20 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:08 hlavaty: I used conduits 14:08:23 the tricks and patches are from a project of mine that uses perec 14:08:52 I expect that someone who needs a different setup will know how to achieve it :) 14:10:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:12:09 loke_ [~elias@bb119-74-214-136.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:14:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20B26.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:14:25 -!- loke [~elias@bb121-6-212-147.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:19:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:20:07 (and nicknames wren't good nough when I wanted to patch certain macros 14:20:08 ) 14:20:41 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:33 pnq [~nick@AC810DE7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:01 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:27:34 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 14:28:10 -!- superflit [~superflit@67-41-202-224.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 14:28:15 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.230.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:34 superflit [~superflit@67-41-202-224.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:43 -!- superflit [~superflit@67-41-202-224.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:59 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:29:28 Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 14:30:37 -!- rmarianski is now known as rmar|away 14:30:42 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 14:30:42 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 14:30:42 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:32:26 -!- Gmind [~morphism@113.190.161.155] has left #lisp 14:33:47 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:34:37 brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:13 -!- stipes [~chris@c-174-53-162-57.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:38 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:37:28 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:37 silenius [~silenus@p549473CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:28 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:36 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-197-52.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:21 mydik [~qle@74.92.196.145] has joined #lisp 14:40:55 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:06 -!- clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:33 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:33 McMAGIC--Copy [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:44:05 *Xach* has a hot new gifcast coming out shortly! 14:45:03 Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:09 Xach: make it fast, please, i'm holding my breath! 14:45:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has joined #lisp 14:47:09 *Xach* tweets it to his followers first 14:47:16 http://xach.com/lisp/buildapp.gif 14:48:43 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:08 nice 14:49:18 was that 48 megabytes? 14:49:32 Shhh 14:49:41 (yes) 14:50:15 Clearly, the application has to be awesomer than my simple example to make someone want to download that much. 14:51:03 araujo [~araujo@190.75.195.55] has joined #lisp 14:51:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.75.195.55] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:52:12 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 14:53:08 unfortunately, you were insufficiently fast, and jdz has voluntarily asphyxiated. 14:54:12 Xach: next one up should be a gifcast that shows how that same gitcast is being created :) 14:54:38 my secret is byzanz-record 14:55:02 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:55:07 Good morning. 14:55:35 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:50 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:01 -!- mydik [~qle@74.92.196.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:11 -!- Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:01:28 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:43 Xach, that's pretty cool 15:02:59 Thanks. 15:03:31 you're certainly doing loads to make the life of lisper alot easier, and more productive 15:03:50 buildapp released? 15:03:57 I've got to kill time until the Lisp Machine is reborn, right? 15:04:15 Guthur: yes. 15:04:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vhoztpakjsmsuhhp] has left #lisp 15:05:06 at this rate you will make Lisp World while waiting for the machine 15:06:11 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@150.59.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:17 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:44 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:13:04 italic [~italic@cpe-67-242-144-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:25 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:36 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-131-96.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:47 Hello all. 15:14:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810DE7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:39 hi 15:18:00 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-225.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 If anyone is interested, I automated the exporting of package symbols, the package uses itself, so if you'd like a look at some random CL code, visit https://github.com/jtza8/meta-package 15:21:21 *the system itself 15:21:37 does it do more than conduits? 15:22:01 (other than exporting) 15:22:02 conduits? 15:22:36 jtza8: a modification of package system, allows easy extending/cloning/etc. of packages 15:22:39 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:40 Well, it only does exporting, for the moment... I'll have a look at conduits, perhaps I re-invented the wheel again. 15:23:48 not in quicklisp 15:23:54 p_l|backup, have you used it 15:24:31 ah conduit-packages 15:24:53 wait, is conduits and conduit-packages related 15:25:06 Guthur: conduit-packags is the name used in quicklisp 15:25:17 ... and on CLiki 15:25:35 and it's quite a mouthful 15:25:42 and yes, I have used it. 15:25:59 hu.dwim.* stuff is really nicer to use with it :D 15:26:08 It seems a little different. 15:26:57 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:21 Basically, my system examins the symbols of a lisp package itself, while in lisp, and then allows you to specify which symbols you don't want to export via a macro. 15:27:32 pity that hierarchical packages aren't more common 15:30:45 but there is also conduits on cliki 15:30:47 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:23 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002924.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:59 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:36:34 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:41:05 -!- rmar|away is now known as rmarianski 15:42:23 Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has joined #lisp 15:44:05 conduits made it very simple for me to use perec, though (I re-exported everything through package PEREC which contains perec and rdbms, thne patched certain things apropriately) 15:44:22 ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has joined #lisp 15:45:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@24.249.87.250] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:45:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:54 ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb119-74-214-136.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:51 loke_ [~elias@bb219-74-161-127.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:47:17 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:09 jtza8: wouldn't it be easier to specify the symbols you do want to export? 15:50:54 jtza8: usually, there are much more private symbols (think about all those symbols used to name lexical variables), than public symbols. 15:53:28 jtza8: ah, one more thing - there are also packages that have macros to asily xport the symbol at definition time (or just use export) 15:54:04 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:37 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:38 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:58:05 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:49 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:27 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:28 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 15:59:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:39 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:29 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-0-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:05:36 how can I get (make-a-var 'my-new-var) to produce the equivalent of (defparameter my-new-var nil) 16:05:55 Guthur: EVAL! 16:06:11 (Alternately, use a macro.) 16:06:25 (Alternately, do something unportable.) 16:07:19 a macro was my first choice actually 16:07:23 Guthur:(progn (proclaim (list 'special 'my-new-var)) (setf (symbol-value 'my-new-var) nil) (setf (documentation 'my-new-var 'variable) "this is a dynamically created dynamic variable.")) 16:07:37 Okay, or that. 16:07:53 Or: (progv (list 'my-new-var) (list nil) ...) 16:08:03 if you don't really need it to be global. 16:08:11 Forgot about PROCLAIM / DECLAIM / DECLARE for a sec. 16:08:27 global is a requirement 16:08:31 pjb, nyef cheers 16:08:47 Well, the unportability is hidden in defparameter. It may do additionnal implementation specific things. 16:09:02 (eg. record the source file where the variable is defined, or things like that). 16:09:08 *nyef* clearly has been in spec-land for too long instead of hacking code. 16:09:12 I'd never have thought about the proclaim stuff 16:10:19 hehe, I still need to figure out how that actually works 16:10:27 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-142-199-74.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 16:10:35 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-142-199-74.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 Bike [~arm_of_th@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 -!- mtd__ is now known as mtd 16:19:45 Hun` [~hun@95-90-10-28-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:44 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-abrdgakmocqfcfhm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:47 -!- superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:24:58 pnq [~nick@host-176.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 16:25:58 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:49 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:58 Intensity [kxdroiDJP5@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 16:27:44 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:27:44 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:27:44 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-0-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 16:29:39 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:30:02 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:30:37 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ihmziwdukmzlqzrh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:30:52 billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.196] has joined #lisp 16:35:20 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:46 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:42:31 jdz [~jdz@host51-109-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:43:45 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 16:45:49 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-0-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:46:05 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:41 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:42 Joreji_ [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:51:54 joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has joined #lisp 16:52:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:49 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 16:55:29 fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:56:52 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 17:00:17 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@d64-180-206-148.bchsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 17:01:22 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:05:36 I have > (loop :for form = (read stream :eof-value nil) :while form :do (macroexpand (eval form)) 17:05:45 but get an end of file condition 17:05:53 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:06:05 I thought it should just stop 17:06:13 Guthur: Double-check the arglist for READ. 17:06:44 ah, there optional parameter 17:06:45 Those are &OPTIONAL, not &KEY arguments. 17:06:45 doh 17:06:51 they're* 17:07:17 oops, a little embarrassing 17:07:26 Live and learn, right? 17:07:30 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:07:44 hehe, yep 17:09:04 just remember that live and learn isn't an option on stuff that could result in harm :-) 17:09:21 Guthur: It's not like people are going to be able to look this up on publically available logs for ever more... 17:10:53 "Live and learn, die and forget. Unless you're an expert system." 17:11:53 splittist2: And if they can, well, maybe someone -else- will learn from it? 17:11:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- prip [~foo@host91-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:53 -!- L1SP [~wolfbytes@97.72.154.166] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- gjvc [~gjvc@beaujolais.extremis.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- grncdr [~stephen@sdo.csc.UVic.CA] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- algorist [~quassel@host2-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-axslxdjogapavkow] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- saterus [~saterus@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@jrockway-2-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:54 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:55 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:55 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:11:55 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:12:06 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:37 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 17:12:43 ikki [~ikki@189.247.145.12] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 prip [~foo@host91-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 L1SP [~wolfbytes@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 gjvc [~gjvc@beaujolais.extremis.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 grncdr [~stephen@sdo.csc.UVic.CA] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 algorist [~quassel@host2-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 reb [~user@nat/google/x-axslxdjogapavkow] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 saterus [~saterus@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 jrockway [~jrockway@jrockway-2-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:56 maybe the netsplit noise will distract any future readers 17:13:13 not enough to switch to case-preserving defaults! 17:13:29 guaqua [gua@kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 17:13:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 17:14:35 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:15:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:16:34 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:16:46 is there a multi-line comment syntax? 17:16:56 Xach: (re Warnock-repl). ah, great example. thanks. :) 17:17:09 ezakimak: #| comment |# 17:17:11 ezakimak: #| |# 17:17:16 beautiful. thx 17:17:29 ezakimak: also look into #+(or) for expression comments 17:17:49 or #+#:disabled-because-it-did-not-work (-: 17:18:07 (I rather like the uninterned-symbol thing for commenting out expressions while providing an explanation) 17:20:36 #+#:Does-not-dwim 17:21:28 splittist2: pretty much, yeah (: 17:22:00 Ooh. That's kindof neat, and certainly beats #+nil 17:22:17 inorite (: 17:22:36 slime sometimes complains about it - must fix that one day 17:22:52 I still have yet to write Nyef's Implementation of Lisp, though. 17:22:57 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:02 you absolutely do (: 17:23:35 just be happy that the old NIL is dead :) 17:24:04 nyef: what kind of implementation would it be? 17:24:51 one that breaks every piece of code using #+nil (-: 17:25:48 It was New Implementation of Lisp = NIL. 17:25:52 Instead, write #+(and) ... 17:26:08 pjb: Umm... Think about that one for a sec, okay? 17:26:41 heh 17:28:11 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:21 *sykopomp* sees #+chilllll or #+nogoawaystopthisnonsense all the time. 17:28:38 srsly, use #+#:something-descriptive 17:28:56 nyef: well, there's not much to think about it, only that NIL wasn't a CL so it didn't have a *features* anyways... But assuming you want to implement NIL in CL, you could have :NIL in *features*... 17:29:06 #+#:you-are-not-expected-to-understand-this 17:29:10 pjb: Yeah, exactly. 17:29:17 pjb: I think nyef meant that #+(and) doesn't do what you think it does 17:29:20 Xach: LispOS jokes? 17:29:24 in that it comments /in/, not /out/ (: 17:29:27 But still, #+(and) sounds nicer than #+nil. 17:29:35 pjb: the zero element of (and) is T 17:29:37 -and/+or 17:29:40 antifuchs: I think pjb's counter-point is that it /does/ do that on NIL. 17:29:45 ah 17:29:56 well, it does so less randomly than NIL (: 17:30:48 I'll probably stick with "#+(or) ;; Some descriptive comment" for the near future, anyway. 17:31:56 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:32:34 *sykopomp* ponders sneaking (push :nil *features*) into a library and watching the fireworks. 17:32:40 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:07 bonus points if you get it into alexandria (: 17:33:13 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:19 hahaha 17:33:29 Well, #-(and) and #+(and). 17:33:29 It's right that I didn't spent cycles thinking about whether it's #+(and) or #-(and) right now, assuming present company knew what I meant, and that #lisp is not a REPL. 17:33:54 pjb: actually, wasn't NIL somwhat related to CLtL1 ? 17:33:56 antifuchs: now -there's- an idea ;) 17:34:07 p_l|backup: I don't know. 17:34:08 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:53 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-205-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:35 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:41:09 noogenesis [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:59 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:14 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42:32 stipes [~chris@2001:468:1910:3c06:223:4dff:fe0b:69d3] has joined #lisp 17:45:14 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-0-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:48 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb219-74-161-127.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:31 NIL is somewhat related to CLtL1: It's mentioned on the front cover, IIRC. 17:53:45 loke [~elias@bb219-74-161-127.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:54:16 ... "MACLISP SCHEME SPICELISP ZETALISP STANDARD LISP NIL" (each word on a separate line). 17:55:24 -!- jdz [~jdz@host51-109-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:55:29 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:11 Is it just me, or is comp.lang.lisp a tarpit of some very annoying people? 17:57:25 Yes. 2011 is a bad year for cll. 17:57:48 loke: It helps to have tools to help in choosing what's worth reading and what's not. 17:58:02 *Xach* uses gnus scoring for that 17:58:05 I kill filed more in 2011 than all the years before... 17:58:24 nyef: I thought that was just the terminator to make it a proper list 17:58:53 This guy "chtun" is both the most annoying person I've ever seen, and at the same time an incredibly skilled troll. His ole-liner strategy is probably the most effective one I've ever seen. 17:59:53 loke: He's visited cll in many forms, as "Deeyana" or something similar, and as Seamus MacRae, and as Series Expansion, and as others. 18:00:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mzfqkjubcsegulns] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:52 I think the worst thing about usenet is that you have to keep track of people you /don't want to talk to/ in order to enjoy the experience at all 18:00:57 So, a well-practiced troll. 18:01:07 it's all backwards 18:01:21 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C5837.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 if you invert it, you get facebook :) 18:01:46 antifuchs: It works both ways. Gnus can score up or down. 18:01:53 the problem is finding the people that you don't know that you do want to talk to 18:02:08 Xach: I know - but it takes only one drop of *disgusting-material* to ruin the experience (: 18:02:09 *Xach* likes to see bright bold Rob Warnocks in the articles buffer on nice days 18:02:17 Gnus? I didn't think it was possible to access Usenet using reasonable clients any more. Xach, where do you pull your feed? 18:02:22 nyef: Yeah. I made the mistake of actually posting eariler today, and immediately got in his sights. Still contemplating whether to reply to him or not. Given what I've seen previously it's pretty much a lost cause, and I did say everything I wanted so that other people can judge me on fact. :-) 18:02:28 ChibaPet: news.individual.net 18:02:32 ty 18:02:38 Xach: is it free? 18:02:48 loke: easy: don't reply (: 18:03:04 I'm stuck in the repl reader (typo), how do I cancel ? 18:03:05 loke: No. It's around $1/month. I think eternal-september.org is free and probably works just as well. 18:03:16 loke, appears to be inexpensive, but not free. 18:03:20 (in slime) 18:03:22 ezakimak: you're not stuck! 18:03:36 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:42 it says [input not complete] 18:03:43 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:53 ezakimak: Close parentheses. 18:03:59 ))))))))))))))))))))))))) RET 18:04:06 Or double-quotes. 18:04:09 ok. got it. 18:04:11 it was kinda messy 18:04:17 antifuchs: :-) I read his reply on my phone, and that was good as it prevented me from immediately writing a reply. Now, about 10 hours later, I have calmed down. He's incredibly good at causing immediate aggravtion. So, in short, a very good troll. 18:04:27 *Xach* tries to keep it simple in the REPL 18:04:42 loke: u mad? (-: 18:04:46 Or use a paren-checking repl. 18:05:01 antifuchs: Not really. You had some specific reason to believe that? :-) 18:05:05 I had typed (in-package 'CL-USER") (shoulda been " not ') 18:05:08 -!- splittist2 [~splittist@103-25.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist2] 18:05:13 then a whole bunch of other stuff trying to get out 18:05:25 loke: oh no, that was just an internet troll phrase (-: 18:05:27 ezakimak: yes, you had a string and a list open. 18:05:42 well, it wasn't obvious what needed closing 18:05:44 ") RET would have done it. (and generated a program-error). 18:05:52 anyway - it's best if you ignore them... no need to spread the harm around 18:05:57 antifuchs: "What does your empty comment have to do with Lisp, Antifuchs?" 18:05:57 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-151-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:06 maybe a feature request to slime--use a secondary prompt saying what your in 18:06:09 antifuchs: that's the one I was referring to 18:06:17 ezakimak: notice that C-c or C-c C-c should break into the debugger, from which you should have a command to go back to the toplevel REPL. 18:06:33 I'm not sure I follow 18:07:02 antifuchs: never mind. It's the one-liner this particular guy keeps using over, and over and over again :-) 18:07:04 ah. wait, the only option there goes back to the repl where it left off--not cancelling the input 18:07:05 ezakimak: with slime, you can activate paredit in the repl. 18:07:19 ooh, haha 18:07:23 pjb, how? 18:07:27 loke: neat trick, that (: 18:07:39 (you can tell I haven't been to cll in a while) (: 18:08:00 ezakimak: (push 'paredit-mode slime-repl-mode-hook) 18:08:15 in ~/.emacs ; also (require 'cl) before that. 18:08:34 ok, will try it next time I start 18:08:35 pushnew might be better. 18:08:59 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 18:09:24 wait, is there a way to exit emacs w/o kill the sbcl process, then reconnect when emacs restarts? 18:09:43 ezakimak: M-x slime-disconnect-all RET 18:09:44 not easily if you started sbcl as an inferior lisp process 18:09:52 (that is, using M-x slime) 18:10:02 it'll lose its streams and quit, aiui 18:10:12 i did start it via M-x slime 18:10:16 but you can evaluate elisp expressions in emacs 18:10:23 Perhaps we could launch another swank-server before then? 18:10:24 no need to restart if you make config changes! 18:10:48 i'm not an emacs/elisp guru yet 18:11:00 i barely scratch the surface on emacs 18:11:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:46 i really should spend some time in the manual/book and learn to use it better 18:11:49 mark the expressions in a region and hit M-x eval-region (: 18:11:51 glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:52 ...and you're set (: 18:12:19 yeah, I knew that, but do those changes always take effect immediately in slime? 18:12:34 <_3b> if you have partially entered input at slime repl, can't you just delete it? 18:12:45 any user of corman around? 18:12:55 ah, the mode hooks won't, for active buffers. but you can run the command manually 18:13:12 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:32 that is, change to the slime repl and hit M-x paredit-mode 18:13:51 You may have to C-c M-o before. 18:16:02 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 18:18:39 what's C-c M-o ? 18:18:51 ezakimak: C-h k C-c M-o 18:19:01 in the slime repl. 18:19:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:20:39 ezakimak: clears the buffeer 18:21:00 fish vs. fishing. 18:22:33 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-183-125.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:22:33 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:22:44 is there any way to do the emacs C-r / C-s or readline search at the slime repl? 18:23:07 ezakimak: M-r 18:23:18 M-p ? 18:23:24 for history completion ? 18:23:32 yes 18:23:35 err wait, it only shuffles the history input 18:23:43 no completion i think 18:23:47 M-p is last entry 18:23:53 no, M-p completes too. 18:23:53 or cycle backwards 18:23:58 if you give it a prefix. 18:24:02 ah ok 18:24:25 oh! did not know that. nice 18:24:26 M-p and M-n are the most ones i use 18:24:50 lanthan [~ze@p54B7E295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:00 what's M-n? 18:25:10 next in history 18:25:15 previous in hitory 18:25:20 history... 18:25:23 bleh 18:25:38 very useful. thx! 18:25:52 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7E295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:27:29 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:11 lanthan [~ze@p54B7E295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:23 -!- fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:28:29 lemonodor [~lemonodor@nat/google/x-iitejuiggtxfulns] has joined #lisp 18:30:46 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-133.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:31:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-47-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:01 paul0 [~user@200.146.60.99.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:35:02 BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-247-236.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 18:40:44 Jasko [~tjasko@adsl-74-248-32-172.pfn.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 -!- BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-247-236.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:33 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 18:46:43 Harag [~Harag@dsl-243-0-188.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:48:35 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:38 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:50:43 ehu [~ehuels@mail.zoodk.cz] has joined #lisp 18:51:55 -!- Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-216-149.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:26 is there a way to toggle emacs major/minor modes on and off, sorry this is kind of cross posted with #emacs 18:54:41 Guthur: M-x foobar-mode will turn it off if on. 18:54:43 And on iff off. 18:54:45 M-x [your mode] 18:54:55 ah, sweet 18:55:10 the question must have been beneath our #emacs brethren 18:55:17 <_3b> you can click/right-click the list of modes in modeline too 18:55:34 _3b, I was trying that, didn't seem to work as expected though 18:55:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:56:09 Hi I've got my allegroserve to run under sbcl and now I want to output lisp code in a table with alternating line colors. for some reason this code (http://cxg.de/_f97ac2.htm) does not work, because the loop's for statement isn't associated with cl: prefixing each keyword with cl:: gives me "Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when interning FOR." how do i get my loop back? 18:56:40 <_3b> loop doesn't care about packages 18:57:20 i assumes it did because in the resulting debugger output it said (loop web::for web::i ...) 18:57:36 but why does it not work then? 18:57:36 bad_alloc: You need something after "for i" 18:58:24 sellout: is this sbcl specific? clisp allowed it and used i as a simple counter 18:58:30 <_3b> yeah, error is the 2nd FOR, not the first one 18:58:41 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:59:30 bad_alloc: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/mac_loop.html 18:59:50 bad_alloc: Perhaps you mean for i from 0 19:00:53 sellout: thanks that fixed it :) 19:01:02 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-133.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:59 -!- Areil [~user@113.172.38.77] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:04:43 agumonkey [agumonkey@150.59.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:45 josemanuel [~josemanue@115.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:05:52 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:07:34 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #lisp 19:07:59 Hi all! 19:08:02 stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-0.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:59 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:46 zomgbie_ [~jesus@85-127-170-205.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.85.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:32 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 19:19:17 Triplefault [~Mouse@adsl-72-145-216-149.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:17 brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:26 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-142-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:13 This exemplifies loop's confusing badness. 19:22:29 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:23:03 Hah! If you want confusing badness, try understanding the CLIM II specification. :-P 19:23:35 I found explicit permission in the specification for an implementation to declare the coordinate type to be (integer 0 0). 19:23:57 ...what would that een do? 19:24:00 *even 19:24:16 (This collapses the set of geometry objects to +everywhere+, +nowhere+, and the result of (make-point 0 0).) 19:24:43 Makes implementing everything fairly trivial, though. 19:24:48 ... 19:25:22 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 19:26:24 If you try to make any object with dimensionality greater than zero, you end up with +nowhere+ due to "dimensionality conservation", any attempt at region composition gives one of the three known objects or, in one case, signals an error. 19:26:38 No region-sets, no crazy special cases, and so on. 19:26:50 peterhil1 [~peterhil@a91-152-142-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:27:20 Admittedly, while it's a consistent interpretation, it's not exactly a useful system. 19:28:19 Does this sort of thing happen in other interface libraries? 19:29:18 Typically not, it's very rare that a user interface library has a proper specification. 19:29:30 (Not that the CLIM II specification is all that proper.) 19:30:03 Blanket permission to use any subtype of REAL for coordinates is fairly amusing, though. 19:30:12 -!- stipes [~chris@2001:468:1910:3c06:223:4dff:fe0b:69d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:01 How strange. Dimensionality conservation sounds science fictional. 19:31:31 How do I convert a string to float? 19:31:48 tried read-from-string, but it returns me only integers 19:32:08 <_3b> use the parse-number library? 19:32:34 Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:32:35 <_3b> read-from-string should have worked though, aside from not being particularly safe if you didn 19:32:40 <_3b> didn't make the string yourself 19:33:18 hm 19:33:40 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:33:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:30 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.205.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:35:12 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:19 Bike: It's almost fun. If you intersect a line with a rectangle, it clips the line to the rectangle. If you union the two you just get the rectangle. If you subtract the line from the rectangle you get the rectangle back, and if you subtract the rectangle from the line you get the bits of the line that aren't in the rectangle. 19:36:22 -!- joachifm [~joachim@212.7.195.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:37:03 Bike: If you intersect two lines that aren't parallel and overlapping then you end up with +nowhere+, even if they actually do cross somewhere. 19:37:08 Stuff like that. 19:37:32 Intersect two rectangles that share a common border but nothing else, and you get nowhere rather than the line of the shared border. 19:37:58 ...huh. 19:39:02 nyef: there may be something about inclusiveness of region boundaries in the spec somewhere 19:39:26 (about that last rectangle case) 19:39:34 it doesn't make much sense, but hm. 19:39:51 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 macrocat [~marmalade@142.177.210.197] has joined #lisp 19:40:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:40:35 antifuchs: Yes, there is, but there's also something about attempting to create an area with no internal space returning +nowhere+. 19:41:10 There's also the fun case that you can't (region-difference +everywhere+ ). 19:41:47 yeah, there's no negative regions it could return (: 19:42:13 nyef: Have you read Alvy Ray Smith's stuff about the Altamira Composer's implementation? 19:43:14 It develops an algebra of that kind of stuff. Doing it in straight C makes it look cumbersome but I found his theory interesting, as a layman. 19:43:53 antifuchs: Mmm. And that's because STANDARD-REGION-DIFFERENCE is a REGION-SET, and REGION-SETs are BOUNDING-RECTANGLEs. 19:44:04 Xach: No, I don't believe I have. 19:44:10 yeah 19:44:16 Guess I have some new keywords for a google search. 19:44:37 http://alvyray.com/Memos/5_sprite.pdf 19:45:02 more stuff at http://alvyray.com/Memos/default.htm 19:45:30 I stole some of his formulae for vecto 19:45:56 Anyway, the only actually "hard" case in the specification is composition with an ellipse where part of the arc forms part of a region boundary. 19:45:56 oh yeah, I remember that name 19:46:39 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:13 Alvy Ray "Pixar" Smith 19:47:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@adsl-74-248-32-172.pfn.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:47:32 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:47:48 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:48:00 10 years ago I had a homegrown forum for GIMP questions, and he posted there about how he hoped GIMP wouldn't make the photoshop mistake of treating images like rectangles. And some undergrad gimp hacker of course schooled him on how wrong he was. 19:48:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.189.171] has joined #lisp 19:48:44 hahaha 19:49:04 a little knowledge is a dang^W^W^Wgoes a long way! 19:49:11 (dang, i guess it's more like 15 years ago...) 19:50:45 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:52 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 19:52:07 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 Xach: Thanks for the links, the abstracts look interesting, even if I haven't started reading the actual papers yet. 19:57:26 Wow, they came up with the alpha channel. 19:59:04 One of my favorite channels. 19:59:11 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 19:59:47 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:00:05 hi 20:00:16 please what is the smallest double float in Lisp? 20:00:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/121714 20:00:41 can someone please help me understand the error there? 20:01:25 ezakimak: CHAR= operates on two characters, and you passed a string and a character. 20:01:34 oh. thankyou 20:01:47 <_3b> Posterdati: least-positive-double-float ? 20:01:49 it's string= that can accept either a char or string 20:01:56 Posterdati: 0.0d0? 20:02:02 0 is not positive 20:02:04 merely non-negative 20:02:10 sellout: wrong! -0.0d0! (-; 20:02:19 ezakimak: He didn't ask for positive :P 20:02:23 _3b: yes :) 20:02:27 _3b: thanks 20:03:00 *rtoym* thinks most-negative-double-float is less than all the suggested answers. :-) 20:03:04 start with 1 and divide by two until it reaches zero 20:03:22 or signals overflow 20:03:32 ... The smallest double-float is still 64 bits wide, isn't it? 20:03:44 nyef: Zing! 20:03:46 depends on implementation, no? 20:03:53 (Plus boxing overhead, of course.) 20:03:58 unless we're talking IEEE defined float format sizes 20:04:32 ezakimak: Okay, yes, it depends on the implementation... But it's rare to find an implementation in this day and age that doesn't use IEEE floats. 20:04:59 might be 32 or evn 16 bit? :P 20:05:10 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:26 <_3b> 16 would be if not non-conformant, at least outside the suggested limits 20:05:37 <_3b> (cl suggests at least 24 bits for floats) 20:06:08 <_3b> only strict requirement is that singl- and short- floats not be larger 20:06:21 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:32 *_3b* thinks 16 bit would still be a good size for short-floats though 20:09:12 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.161.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:09:41 right. It wouldn't b a doubl-float :) 20:10:13 <_3b> hmm, guess i misremembered, and it suggests 18 for short, and 58 for double 20:12:23 <_3b> 16 for all 4 float types would still technically be conformant though 20:13:49 ISTR being surprised when I first encountered a 24-bit (or was it 25-bit) short-float type. 20:14:34 On a machine architecture with no FP hardware, at that. 20:15:11 -!- orivej_ is now known as orivej 20:16:16 *_3b* seems to remember clisp having immediate 24bit short floats 20:16:30 cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:35 BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-234-236.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:14 <_3b> (presumably 32bit floats with bits stolen for tagging on most platforms) 20:17:42 _3b: I'd actually expect full software floats. 20:17:58 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: npoektop] 20:18:08 <_3b> i guess that would be reasonable too, since they have them anyway for long floats 20:18:52 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:19:01 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 20:20:55 ... And you'd need software floats for looong floats (add another 32 bits for each #\o after the first!) 20:25:28 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 20:25:58 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:08 -!- silenius [~silenus@p549473CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:10 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host130-184-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:29:07 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:30:23 -!- Reviou is now known as Evious 20:30:32 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:31:10 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-151-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:58 ncow [~ncow@unaffiliated/necrocow] has joined #lisp 20:35:07 hello, I'm trying to get sbcl working under linux (x86), I downloaded sbcl-1.0.47-x86-linux-binary.tar.bz2 and installed it as per the INSTALL file and it installs, but when I try to run it or `sh run-sbcl.sh`, I just get: Floating point exception 20:35:29 I've been trying find more info about this via google but haven't found anything of use 20:35:37 szr [~SR@unaffiliated/szr] has joined #lisp 20:37:08 -!- glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:37:11 ncow: you should be able to run sbcl from /path/where/you/installed/it/bin/sbcl 20:37:14 I get that error even with just sbcl --version or --help 20:37:28 antifuchs: that's what I'm doing 20:37:29 if you didn't put it in /usr/local/bin, then you'll have to export SBCL_HOME to the directory prefix 20:37:45 ah, right 20:37:45 Joreji_ [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 oh, wait. floating point exception? 20:37:51 yes 20:38:03 doesn't sound like a missing core, hm. 20:38:11 ncow: What OS and hardware do you have? 20:38:14 what kernel is that? are you running in xen? 20:38:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:16 2.6.37, build from source from kernel.org 20:40:34 Bike [~arm_of_th@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 20:41:43 _danb_ [~user@124-168-14-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:44:15 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@94.127.49.1] has quit [Quit: Davsebamse] 20:44:19 Random ideas ... Corrupt download? Does an older version of sbcl work? 32-bit hardware? How old? Download clisp, then build sbcl from source? 20:44:34 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 20:44:46 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:52 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 20:45:02 antifuchs: this system is very updated overall, although it still retains the original 2.3.2 GLIBC, although I do have a modern tool-chain in an alternate location, and I just replaced /lib/ld-linux.so.2 with /li2/ld-linux.so.2 in bin/sbcl and now it appears to be working 20:45:27 seems it requires something that older glibc's lack 20:45:46 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:53 which is quite rare imho, as most things run just fine against the original glibc on this system 20:46:13 reb: this is the first time I've attempted to install any lisp on this box 20:46:22 this is just a dev box of mine 20:46:38 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:51 I used to do a little bit of lisp a while back, thought I'd try to get back into it again 20:48:32 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51:31 -!- szr [~SR@unaffiliated/szr] has left #lisp 20:51:49 ncow: not sure if I can help you, unfortunately... I've not seen something like that before 20:52:10 sounds like a subtle incompatibility. if you want to help debug this, report it to sbcl-devel@lists.sourceforge.net with your system info (: 20:52:29 but you want to get lisp going, so you could try clozure cl instead in the meantime! (: 20:53:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:55:32 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has left #lisp 20:57:27 How old is glibc 2.3.2? 20:59:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002924.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:06 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C5837.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:05 reb, several years 21:05:07 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:56 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:07:01 That's what I figured. I can't think of any reason why an old glibc would have floating point trouble, but it might cause threading problems. 21:07:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:07:18 Anyway, ncow might want to upgrade his glibc. 21:09:09 xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 21:09:16 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:15:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.189.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:15:26 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.17.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:49 -!- Hun` [~hun@95-90-10-28-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:05 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 21:16:10 -!- BountyX [~erhan@csu-137-148-234-236.csuohio.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:18 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:22 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 21:16:38 doc_what [~doc_who@138-78-106-96.resnet.smcm.edu] has joined #lisp 21:16:41 definitely thread issues--I can't remember what version of glibc added nptl support 21:17:23 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B025762.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:34 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@138-78-106-96.resnet.smcm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:12 Mysysisi [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #lisp 21:19:50 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B022890.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:19:50 -!- brodo_ is now known as brodo 21:22:31 -!- Mysysisi [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has quit [Client Quit] 21:26:13 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #lisp 21:26:34 stipes [~chris@c-174-53-162-57.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:46 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:27:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-225.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:29:55 d 21:30:13 Doesn't SBCL already check for lack of NPTL and bomb out if necessary? 21:30:40 And then there's that personality() call for whatever reason (disable heap randomization or something?)... 21:31:02 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-211-178.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:32:27 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:08 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@85-127-170-205.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:37 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-211-178.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:48 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 21:35:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:35:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:36:01 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-135-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-136-233-87.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@host86-136-233-87.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:38:01 markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 21:39:03 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:48 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:34 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:47:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:31 viorel [~viorel@ool-44c70d72.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:51 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:51:57 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:52:31 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@115.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:53:18 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@66-232.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:31 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-14-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:05 -!- markskilbeck [~markskilb@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:12 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:52 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-186-53.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-194-87.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:37 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:01:51 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-063-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:02:00 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-0.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@mail.zoodk.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:51 -!- Bike [~arm_of_th@69.166.35.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:01 Callumlord [~Callumlor@5e0e8cb7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:46 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 22:07:11 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:12 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-5.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:08:44 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:08:45 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-184-32-12-181.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:12 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 22:09:31 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:55 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-5.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 22:17:49 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:39 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:21 -!- Callumlord [~Callumlor@5e0e8cb7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Are you following me on twitter? @callumlord :) Night] 22:25:18 francogrex [~francogre@109.130.100.83] has joined #lisp 22:25:58 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:38 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-186-53.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:29:34 -!- francogrex [~francogre@109.130.100.83] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:36:39 oprs [~oprs@91.121.149.157] has joined #lisp 22:40:55 -!- atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:38 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz] 22:42:28 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:24 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@150.59.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:23 Bike [~arm_of_th@71-38-158-155.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:44 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.150.57] has joined #lisp 22:49:27 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-151-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.150.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54:57 sylecn [~sylecn@wireless-128-62-84-98.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 22:55:04 -!- viorel [~viorel@ool-44c70d72.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: viorel] 22:55:56 schoene [~mark@cpe-24-93-238-67.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:46 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:39 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:32 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:04:37 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:33 is there a prefered stlye between nil 'nil () '() and t 't ? 23:06:00 i understand nil vs () for denoting an empty list vs false, but what about quote/no quote? 23:06:01 ezakimak: it depends! 23:06:11 for lists, use () and for booleans use nil 23:06:19 there's a lisp style guide that goes in depth there 23:06:54 I forget where it is, but it's linked from the cliki 23:06:57 ok 23:07:27 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-196-171-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:36 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:07:39 for now I'm not too worried--only solving probs in the book so far 23:07:48 only asked in case there was a simple answer 23:07:58 Quote is used when you want to evaluate a form and obtain data. 23:08:23 So if you want as data the symbol named "NIL", you'd write 'nil, while if you want the boolean false, you'd write nil. 23:08:33 in the sbcl manual, 4.1.2, it mentions that sb-ext:code-deletion-note is a subtype of compiler-note. Is that the only subtype? 23:08:55 If you want as data an empty list, you'd write '(), but if you want as code an empty list (eg. an empty parameter list), then you'd write (). 23:08:58 I'm writing muffler macros for known-expensive calls, but don't want to muffle code deletion or other notes that might signal a real problem 23:09:20 So: (defun f () (values (the list '()) (the symbol 'nil) (the boolean nil))) 23:09:39 pjb: thx 23:10:06 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.150.57] has joined #lisp 23:10:28 ezakimak: of course, for the machine it makes no difference, it returns three NIL. 23:10:31 nice and compact last example 23:14:26 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:19:54 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:05 viorel [~viorel@ool-44c70d72.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:02 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:22:16 mauryckk [~mauryck@bard-nynt4-193.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 23:22:49 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 23:24:06 benny` [~benny@i577A8091.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:30 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7D19.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:43 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:26:45 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:27:23 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 23:28:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:04 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 23:31:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-145.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:58 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #lisp 23:36:41 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-15-185-57.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:19 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:02 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 23:43:47 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.135.172] has joined #lisp 23:45:56 loke_ [~elias@bb121-6-175-5.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:48:39 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:49:06 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:41 -!- loke [~elias@bb219-74-161-127.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:12 -!- Atomsk is now known as ace4016 23:52:37 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-142-199-74.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:27 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-186-53.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:57:03 Spion__ [~spion@79.125.200.150] has joined #lisp 23:59:05 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@wireless-128-62-84-98.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: Hmmm?]