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AFAIK, pretty print or ~< ... ~> never split an atom. 02:01:33 Quadrescence: is the column important? 02:01:40 madnificent: yes 02:02:51 You can easily split the text into line, and split the lines at the requested column. 02:03:04 Quadrescence: what are you trying to accomplish? 02:03:41 madnificent: Precisely what I said, take a string and print it in lines of N characters each 02:06:02 (mapcan (lambda (line) (loop for i from 0 while (< (+ i column) (length line)) collect (subseq line i (min (length line) (incf i column))))) (split-sequence #\newline text)) 02:06:05 should do it. 02:06:11 billitch [~billitch@78.250.206.66] has joined #lisp 02:06:14 it seemed to be underspecified, but fair enough :) 02:06:26 s/from/=/ 02:11:17 pjb pasted "split lines on column" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120998 02:12:32 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.206.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:46 billitch [~billitch@78.250.206.66] has joined #lisp 02:13:44 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@201.151.79.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:09 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-167.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:15:14 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:17:01 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has joined #lisp 02:17:34 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 02:18:12 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:58 artifact [~pyrrhic@c-24-60-190-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:25 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D5F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:24 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 02:26:04 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:19 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:26:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:26:19 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:28:00 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D5F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:05 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D5F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:16 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:40 -!- pnq [~nick@host-164.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:11 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:33:06 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 02:37:26 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:37:39 -!- omgz0r [~omgz0r@S010600119502eca3.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: omgz0r] 02:38:06 -!- jweiss_ [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:39:38 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@64.103.135.131] has joined #lisp 02:39:42 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@64.103.135.131] has quit [Changing host] 02:39:42 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #lisp 02:40:36 I want to in-place append a possibly-empty list. I couldn't find a CL function for this so I wrote https://gist.github.com/893761 Is there a canonical way to do this? 02:41:11 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:03 artifact: the name NAPPEND looks like the name of a function. It already exists, it's called NCONC. 02:42:17 pjb`: no, nconc doesn't do what I want. 02:42:29 I said possibly empty list 02:42:29 artifact: in lisp, arguments are passed by value. You cannot modify an external binding from within a function. 02:42:36 artifact: nconcf does. 02:42:43 see appendf in 02:42:46 clhs define-modify-macro 02:42:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_2.htm 02:42:56 artifact: Use a closure. 02:43:15 artifact: the empty list object is not mutable! 02:43:17 artifact: You can modify external bindings from within a function by capturing it with a closure. 02:43:25 artifact: the empty list object is the symbol NIL. 02:43:47 what the hell? I know it's immutable and I know the empty list is nil. 02:43:51 that's not the point. 02:43:52 artifact: also, see ALEXANDRIA:NCONCF 02:44:04 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:44:34 artifact: see what happens when you choose the wrong name for an operator? 02:45:07 did anyone look at the gist? It's a macro, not a function. 02:45:14 artifact: also, see ALEXANDRIA:NCONCF 02:45:23 artifact: DO NOT CALL IT NAPPEND!!!!!!!! 02:45:33 nappend is the name of a function, not a macro. 02:46:01 please tell me what to do. Use alexandria:noncf? 02:46:05 Yes. 02:46:13 ok, thanks. 02:46:13 nconcf is the name of what you want. 02:46:28 You can define it yourself with define-modify-macro, or you can use the one in alexandria. 02:46:36 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934ad95.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:46:52 nappend isn't a CL function. Do you mean the naming convention alone suggests it's a function? 02:47:14 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:16 could the tree structure be deemed as being universal in the lisp space/ 02:47:17 ? 02:47:25 artifact: yes, that's what I suggest. 02:47:38 Any function named n is a function. 02:47:48 ok, thanks. 02:47:51 Any operator named n is a function, even. 02:48:19 madsenz: trees are an important data type in computer science, yes. 02:49:19 http://stanford-online.stanford.edu/seminars/knuth/091208-knuth-500.asx 02:49:27 this is interesting:) 02:50:28 pjb': Thanks!! I'm listening to it now.:). 02:56:22 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:31 sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:46 is there an equivalent to #include in common lisp? 02:59:26 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has joined #lisp 03:00:31 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:00 no. CL isn't particularly file-oriented, though. You can usually just load the files separately, without worrying about declarations and what not. 03:03:38 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:05:59 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:18 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-121-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 03:08:34 pkhuong, so basically, load = import 03:08:51 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has joined #lisp 03:09:47 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:34 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634070.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:11:47 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 03:15:26 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:17:04 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440889.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:18:33 *sakekasi* has figured it out. thanks pkhuong :) 03:18:48 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@200.57.93.65] has left #lisp 03:18:54 sakekasi: Unlike import load won't produce duplicate definition errors. 03:20:01 naryl, what do I pass to import? 03:20:13 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:20:31 sakekasi: the "import" function in CL has nothing to do with loading code or handling files. 03:21:04 antifuchs, so which function do I use other than load? 03:21:18 why would you use a function that isn't load to load code? 03:21:30 I don't quite follow what you want to do 03:21:35 You can think of load as being like include, if you like. 03:21:43 sakekasi: I meant C's #import 03:22:09 >.< 03:22:12 #include 03:22:12 Well, C doesn't have a #import. 03:22:15 Sorry. 03:22:53 You can think of defvars as being like C's variables with external linkage if that helps, too. 03:23:38 Besides being longer and less elegant, is there an effective difference between (define-modify-macro nconcf (&rest args) nconc) and my-nconcf https://gist.github.com/893807 ? What's an example where my-nconcf fails? 03:24:07 I tried different setf forms and they worked 03:25:27 artifact: you can't chain MY-NCONCFs 03:25:50 ah, but then you couldn't do that before either, hm. 03:26:53 artifact: I meant to say, it's generally not a good idea to put ,form in an expansion where it will be evaluated more than once. 03:27:46 ah yes, that's bad. so assuming I used a proper let + gensym, is there a failing example of my-nconcf. 03:28:03 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:00 hm but in doing so, I guess that's where the problem lies. 03:29:05 perhaps 03:29:23 (my-nconcf nil) (-: 03:29:32 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:00 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 03:30:07 that's also an error for nconcf 03:30:14 artifact: you don't always go through accessors; that could fail on some places. 03:32:10 actually, I don't see why you don't use (defmacro my-nconcf (form &rest rest) `(setf ,form (nconc ,form ,@rest))) 03:32:35 (apart from the same problem I mentioned above about side-effects; but that probably doesn't matter for nconcf anyway 03:33:39 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:00 antifuchs: still need to get-setf-expansion, etc. 03:34:05 the environment parameter sets define-modify-macro apart. I'll look into that next. 03:34:30 pnq [~nick@ACA21446.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:09 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 03:37:32 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:37 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:45:15 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:52 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:52 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:38 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 03:54:07 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-71-206.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:57:25 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:58 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:04 dmiles [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:18 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:45 lemoinem [~swoog@202-73-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:00 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 04:06:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:44 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qatynielbimkibug] has joined #lisp 04:13:42 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-kqlyjfjqgbcgfvyn] has joined #lisp 04:13:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-kqlyjfjqgbcgfvyn] has quit [Changing host] 04:13:42 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:13:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:26 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-reaeujbhgmvjxnxb] has joined #lisp 04:16:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-reaeujbhgmvjxnxb] has quit [Changing host] 04:16:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:16:48 sakekasi: there's #.(include "file") in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=4efaeabce24e0908b4325d0bacaee76996d45df2&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=common-lisp/cesarum/utility.lisp 04:17:46 Zhivago: load is not like include: (defparameter *stuff* '#.(include "something.lisp")) vs. (defparameter *stuff* '#.(load "something.lisp")) !!! 04:17:53 -!- jleija_ [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:19:07 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:22:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:23:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:28:09 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:37 So I've been debugging a stack overflow, only to realize that my code was correct all along. The structure is circular so the slime output overflowed. Can I substitute a printer which detects self-reference? 04:30:01 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:44 (setf *print-circle* t) is one way. 04:32:46 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:34:10 _dev0_ [~dev@c-24-16-28-215.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:29 that has no effect. Maybe it's a clozure problem? 04:40:20 yeah. SBCL gets it right. Clozure doesn't handle *print-circle*. 04:40:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:40:55 You can make sure you don't print the structure. 04:41:57 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 04:43:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:45:43 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-207.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:45:44 sarcasm should have a hint of humor or something. 04:46:05 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:48:02 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:48:22 oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:37 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:15 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:04 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:02:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:11 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:22 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:23:12 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:23:39 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.245] has joined #lisp 05:24:19 artifact: Clozure probably handle *print-circle*, but implementations are known to have other variables for various different outputs, such as top-level, debugger output, inspector output, etc. 05:24:27 artifact: (apropos "PRINT-CIRCLE") 05:24:42 artifact: and of course, slime uses its own. 05:25:37 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:25:40 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fltbpjaduzgzstkn] has joined #lisp 05:27:33 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:27:33 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 05:27:33 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:31:03 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:31:18 flip215 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:31:18 -!- flip215 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 05:31:18 flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:31:54 -!- Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:14 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:33:32 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:34:06 -!- flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:34:57 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:40:40 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:47:23 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:47:23 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 05:47:23 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 05:47:30 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:51:37 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 05:52:09 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 05:52:37 _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-250-22.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 05:53:42 <_6502_> Hello... I'm reading from a binary file and after a (read-byte f) I need to switch depending on the value read so I used a `ccase` form 05:54:36 <_6502_> However I've defined several +CONSTANTS+ to make the code readable, then I realized that ccase doesn't evaluate the list so the symbols are being checked, not the constants 05:54:47 <_6502_> what is the best solution? 05:56:03 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:20 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 05:56:49 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:58:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:59:00 _6502_: you could use cond 05:59:09 or take a look at cl-binary-file, or http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-parsing-binary-files.html 05:59:11 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 05:59:14 minion: cl-binary-file 05:59:16 cl-binary-file: The binary file package contains utilities to read and write binary files. http://www.cliki.net/cl-binary-file 06:00:39 <_6502_> making an mcase macro that evaluates the case list at macro expansion time is a terrible idea? 06:03:49 no ... make the language suit you 06:04:07 I've had that problem several times, too. 06:04:28 Another idea is to let the reader expand the constant: #.+constant+ 06:04:38 <_6502_> the keypoint is not for me the binary file, but the ccase form and the fact that i'm used to have named constants in the code, not raw numbers 06:04:48 <_6502_> #.+constant+ looks nice 06:04:51 but this might not work for things not comparable with eql 06:05:00 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05:18 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:05:49 <_6502_> and it's logically similar to a C #define 06:07:13 yes ... and numeric constants shouldn't give a problem anyway 06:07:41 <_6502_> thanks... 06:07:53 -!- _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-250-22.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 06:08:07 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:10:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:05 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:20 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.206.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:18:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:20:01 you're welcome. 06:22:10 -!- artifact [~pyrrhic@c-24-60-190-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:11 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-111-210.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 06:24:21 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:26:51 -!- xan__ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:29:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:30:30 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 06:30:52 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 06:30:52 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:52 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 06:33:28 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:55 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:34:16 -!- sbahra_ [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra_] 06:38:14 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 06:38:33 -!- trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 06:39:05 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 06:39:18 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:39:51 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:40:58 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 06:40:58 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 06:40:58 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 06:41:38 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:41:56 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:41:56 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 06:41:56 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:43:39 -!- sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:05 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:44:43 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:44:48 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:47:18 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 06:47:57 good morning 06:50:14 waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-d9bd97da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:17 good morning mvilleneuve 06:53:23 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:53:49 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e78a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:56:34 mnau [~xc344@125.73.44.23] has joined #lisp 06:57:41 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 06:58:25 gilligan_ [d918cf1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.207.26] has joined #lisp 07:03:10 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-almctqarwxeqboya] has joined #lisp 07:04:25 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.181.172] has joined #lisp 07:06:14 sellout [~Adium@80.187.209.89] has joined #lisp 07:06:40 -!- sellout is now known as Guest51618 07:06:59 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 07:07:44 -!- Guest51618 is now known as sellout_ 07:09:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:56 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 07:10:58 -!- 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[~ehuels@109.32.181.172] has joined #lisp 07:40:03 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:40:32 hi 07:41:38 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 07:44:12 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-092-076-080-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45:41 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007002.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 07:46:36 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:45 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:56 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 07:51:03 does anybody has an idea why slime-lisp-implementation-type is nil even though I'm connected to SBCL? 07:51:26 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gjgfzwdwxnbtltbm] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:18 -!- homie 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[~attila_le@145.38.broadband3.iol.cz] has quit [Changing host] 08:09:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:10:56 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:57 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 -!- Taggnostr3 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:11:22 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-215.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 08:14:10 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sbrhpvndwusscsyq] has joined #lisp 08:14:16 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sbrhpvndwusscsyq] has quit [Changing host] 08:14:16 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:14:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:56 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7B86E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:57 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BED9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:46 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:20:38 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-212-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:25:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:26:55 _6502_ [~agriffini@88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 08:27:18 <_6502_> Hello... what does it mean this warning? ; caught WARNING: 08:27:18 <_6502_> ; The function (SETF READ-BYTE) is undefined, and its name is reserved by ANSI CL 08:27:18 <_6502_> ; so that even if it were defined later, the code doing so would not be portable. 08:27:53 <_6502_> I didn't define or used (setf read-byte), or I think I didn't :-) 08:29:53 <_6502_> the full source of the test program I wrote can be seen at http://raksy.dyndns.org/test_database.lisp 08:30:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:30:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007002.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:38 -!- msponge [~msponge@149-169-127-103.nat.asu.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 08:31:35 <_6502_> apparently the problematic function is dbload, but i don't understand where is the problem 08:32:24 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:32:28 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 08:32:44 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7574bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:18 <_6502_> both clisp and sbcl complain about (setf read-byte) then for sure i've a problem 08:35:29 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:38:23 "(ccase (read-byte f) ..." uses the /place/ read-byte, hence the two functions #'read-byte and #'(setf read-byte). 08:38:53 <_6502_> ccase uses a place? i thought it was a form... 08:39:14 <_6502_> so i've to read it in a local variable I suppose... 08:39:39 <_6502_> that's tricky... 08:39:46 Maybe "case" would be the macro of choice? 08:40:11 <_6502_> i thought that the difference between case and ccase was behaviour on missing match 08:40:11 read the clhs. 08:40:12 -!- Bribek [~Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:25 <_6502_> behavior 08:40:47 _6502_: the previous one was more correct 08:40:58 The clhs says clearly "Possibly also used later as a place if no keys match." 08:43:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:08 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:05 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has joined #lisp 08:46:12 <_6502_> so case returns nil on missing match and no otherwise clause 08:46:27 <_6502_> ecase signals an error 08:46:44 <_6502_> ccase requires a place instead of a value and allows for in-place correction of the problem 08:46:47 Bribek [~Bribek@77.233.231.100] has joined #lisp 08:47:16 <_6502_> i should just ecase then, correct? 08:48:10 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:48:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@80.187.209.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:00 -!- kamikaza [~kamikaza@92.53.53.228] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:10 <_6502_> ok... warning is gone using ecase 08:49:12 <_6502_> thanks 08:49:17 snearch [~snearch@f053000130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:46 lichtblau: in conium.asd, the second #+scl :file should be source-file-cache rather than swank-source-file-cache (I assume) 08:50:11 -!- _6502_ [~agriffini@88.149.154.87] has left #lisp 08:51:53 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:06 [Bribek] [~Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 08:59:58 -!- Bribek [~Bribek@77.233.231.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:03:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 09:03:43 kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:15 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:09:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.181.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 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joined #lisp 09:30:12 billitch [~billitch@78.250.206.66] has joined #lisp 09:30:22 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 09:30:47 -!- woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:31:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:38:23 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:39:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:41:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@88.128.91.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:03 ehu` [~ehuels@109.37.89.150] has joined #lisp 09:44:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.37.3.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:02 concave [~concave@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:37 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.37.89.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:53:47 In a lisp source buffer I type C-c C-z to select the *slime repl-buffer. What's the keybinding and/or command to pop back to the source buffer again? Simply other-window, bound to C-x o, or is there something more specific in Slime? 09:54:09 ehu [~ehuels@109.36.96.225] has joined #lisp 09:55:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:56:01 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:56:52 ehu` [~ehuels@109.36.188.6] has joined #lisp 09:57:01 -!- chr``` is now known as chr 09:58:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.36.96.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:43 -!- waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-d9bd97da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 09:59:57 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-d9bd97da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:04 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.36.188.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2EA3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:02:57 benny [~benny@i577A1D2A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:43 chr: i use C-c s r and C-c s l 10:04:49 chr: note that there are many other things you can select using C-c s 10:07:47 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 10:11:56 yeah take a look at the slime-selector 10:13:27 sellout [~Adium@80.187.211.178] has joined #lisp 10:14:58 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:21:55 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.115.92] has joined #lisp 10:25:51 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.115.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:26:47 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.115.92] has joined #lisp 10:27:20 patrick` [~patrick@iqool.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:43 i have slime-selector at C-z 10:28:13 and use it thousand times a day 10:28:43 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31:17 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:35:31 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 10:35:51 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:36:25 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.201.70] has joined #lisp 10:37:29 ehu` [~ehuels@109.32.56.184] has joined #lisp 10:39:02 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:39:35 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 10:39:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.115.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:01 what's the meaning of :key in ASSOC? 10:40:22 it's as any other :key 10:40:23 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has joined #lisp 10:41:44 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.32.56.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:42:41 so the function assigned in :key take the car of the item in an alist? 10:42:54 no 10:43:03 clhs assoc 10:43:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_assocc.htm 10:44:01 clhs 17.2.1 10:44:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/17_ba.htm 10:46:04 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 10:46:21 stassats: thanks. 10:49:41 stassats: So my previous understanding is correct. The :key function in assoc receives the car of each element as argument. 10:50:13 yes, i interpreted it initially in a different way 10:50:24 ;) 10:53:29 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:51 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-109-10.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:57:03 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:03:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-71-206.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:38 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-80-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:08:34 Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:09:36 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:12:03 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:06 dlowe1 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(values a b) 12:38:15 or (setf (place a) b) 12:38:52 stassats: thanks. 12:39:59 Is there a variant of (loop for x in LIST ...) where x is setfable? 12:40:32 (loop for x on list do (setf (car x) 'new-value)) 12:40:38 Xach, you made an adjustment to your registry for cl-llvm yesterday? 12:41:22 JuanDaugherty: I did not. 12:42:34 at first apropos 'llvm' was returning some stuff, then it wasn't that's why I asked. 12:42:44 JuanDaugherty: I made no changes recently. 12:43:05 dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:35 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 12:43:56 nice pkg btw, installed hunchentoot without a hitch. 12:44:06 Glad to hear it. 12:44:43 jweiss_ [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:57 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 12:45:10 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:46:37 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:49:25 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:49:51 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:56 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:52:33 steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 -!- sellout [~Adium@80.187.211.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58:14 sellout [~Adium@80.187.211.178] has joined #lisp 13:01:31 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:52 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:04:39 stassats: thanks. 13:05:32 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Bye?] 13:05:44 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has joined #lisp 13:07:42 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has joined #lisp 13:08:51 -!- [Bribek] [~Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [Quit: Denne computer faldt i s�vn] 13:09:53 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:56 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-ptnpustgwdmxqnsn] has joined #lisp 13:10:09 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:10:35 -!- sbahra_ [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra_] 13:14:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:39 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has joined #lisp 13:16:12 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:17:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:24:07 -!- woudshoo` [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:07 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:43:16 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:46:59 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 13:53:21 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 13:54:06 ... The DEFMETHOD lambda-list is (&REST ARGS)? Eesh. 13:55:11 Guess that's one way to account for being allowed to shove any number of method qualifiers before the arglist. :-/ 13:55:17 it's too fancy 13:55:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:56:09 I suppose. And I've occasionally wanted to have a single optional argument before I had finished the required arguments. 13:56:14 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 13:56:19 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:57:48 but slime could display it better 13:58:18 (setf (documentation 'defmethod 'operator-syntax) '((:optional (:repeat )) &body body)) 13:58:30 stassats: you'd need additionnal documentation entries. 13:58:40 you wouldn't 13:58:55 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 How would you know about the syntax of the operators? 13:59:08 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fltbpjaduzgzstkn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:12 Even functions with &rest arguments may expect a specific syntax. 13:59:21 kaek [~b@c-c3cae253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:59:27 by specifying them explicitly 13:59:42 Yes, that's what I am saying. 13:59:47 stassats: you'd need additionnal documentation entries. 13:59:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:09 not DOCUMENTATION entries 14:00:16 Why not store them there? 14:00:21 It's the standard place! 14:00:46 it's standard for documentation, not for arglist 14:00:47 s 14:01:25 "A conforming implementation or a conforming program may extend the set of symbols that are acceptable as the doc-type." 14:01:56 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:57 Arglist syntax is a type of documentation. 14:02:06 whatever 14:02:26 slime doesn't use DOCUMENTATION for this 14:02:45 It should. 14:02:47 Just uses F-L-E? 14:02:47 because, for one thing, it's static 14:02:59 swank could load there the syntax for CL operators, and let the library developers store there the syntax for their own. 14:03:11 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host106-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:03:19 nyef: the problem is &rest 14:03:34 no, it uses a GF (arglist-dispatch operators arguments) => arglist 14:03:35 while the operator may impose further restrictions on the syntax of the rest arguments. 14:04:25 stassats: I'm speaking of an interface between swank and the libraries, using the standard CL features instead of inventing a new mechanism. I don't care how slime do its internal cuisine. 14:04:27 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:04:48 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has joined #lisp 14:05:15 well, i don't care about the thing you care 14:05:22 It seems so. 14:05:48 Nonetheless, it would be better for slime and the users of slime, if it tried to make things in a general ways. 14:05:50 as i've said, your proposed DOCUMENTATION usage isn't enough 14:06:15 because you can't pass provided arguments to it 14:06:31 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 14:06:43 You still didn't point out what was wrong with my proposition. 14:06:53 --> documentation only takes documentation strings, not sexps! 14:07:15 But this is no problem, just define a syntax for the doc-type operator-syntax documentation strings. 14:07:42 (setf (documentation 'defmethod 'operator-syntax) "{} &body ") 14:07:49 i've just said, it's static, you can only dispath on the name of the operator 14:08:14 Operators are defined statically. 14:08:22 *nyef* notes that MEMBER and friends are only defined to return the list starting at an element which "satisfies the test", not specifically the first such item. 14:08:23 ARGLIST-DISPATCH, when provided with a (defmethod generic-function) pulls the lambda-list of the generic-function 14:08:54 nyef: not so loud! xof might hear! 14:09:10 Xach: How would that be bad? 14:09:32 Aww! 14:09:34 nyef: sbcl will change behavior and break orphan libraries 14:09:36 he'll implement that in sbcl? 14:10:04 Heh. It's arguably inefficient to implement it any other way, though... 14:10:38 stassats: I find that feature less interesting that having a standard and homogeneous way for libraries to provide documentation about the syntax of their operators. 14:10:56 that's not the purpose of swank 14:11:07 ok. 14:11:21 *nyef* uses LDIFF, the day after finding out about its existence. 14:12:30 *Xach* hands nyef a lightly-used NRECONC 14:13:16 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:08 ... Hunh. NRECONC is kindof cute, but I can't think of a real use for it offhand unless you're doing push/nreverse style manipulation to start with. 14:16:29 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3247672165664225@naggum.no.html 14:16:55 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:20:20 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-165-19.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:21:29 Xach: nice, thanks! 14:21:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:21 Someone� should analyze CL symbol use frequency across all libraries 14:27:02 I think I saw something where someone did that 14:27:11 Xach: I was thinking about doing that for my own code. Sort of a popcon for CL. But you'd really need a code walker. 14:27:53 https://gist.github.com/741780 can be modified to report frequency per symbol 14:29:44 code walker -- or just some code coverage tool 14:30:33 or who-calls, to a certain extent. 14:32:21 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:20 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 Xach: you don't use the new asdf source-registry in quicklisp, do you? 14:35:22 Fare: No. 14:35:37 ok. Then you don't need 2.014.1 for cmucl. 14:36:09 Xach is still stuck in the old ways. I hear he still uses mk-defsystem. 14:36:29 sellout: is it better than load.lisp? 14:36:31 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:36:32 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:54 sellout: are you already in Hamburg ? 14:37:05 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:37:09 fe[nl]ix: are you? 14:37:12 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, arrived this morning. 14:37:19 I am in Hamburg in spirit. 14:37:27 fe[nl]ix: Where are you staying? 14:37:34 sellout: yes, just arrived at the hotel 14:37:39 *sellout* is at the Parorama. 14:37:45 Panorama, even. 14:39:14 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:33 Rukowen [~Rukowen@123.20.15.117] has joined #lisp 14:42:25 cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-37.pdc.kth.se] has joined #lisp 14:43:20 Anyone have an example of using sbcl for cgi? I'm trying to grab input from a web form by sb-ext:*posix-argv* but am starting to wonder if there is a better way (my way isn't working) 14:44:44 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:03 CGI values are passed on standard input or in the environment. 14:45:04 sbcl for cgi is a bad idea 14:45:05 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.192] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 14:45:21 cymew: When I use SBCL for web stuff, I start a long-running server in SBCL that accepts and answers requests. 14:47:10 morning 14:47:12 FastCGI, maybe? But yeah, still a bad idea. 14:47:15 Hello slyrus. 14:47:47 -!- _dev0_ [~dev@c-24-16-28-215.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:48:50 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 14:51:18 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:53:23 Xach: if some software started using xcvb, would you have any problem with distributing a binary for xcvb as part of quicklisp ? 14:53:46 I don't know. 14:53:55 (assuming xcvb gained all the backends it's currently lacking) 14:54:14 btw, does quicklisp support gcl, or is gcl officially dead? 14:54:20 corman? 14:55:37 Quicklisp does not support GCL or Corman. I didn't feel like researching them. 14:55:37 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:55:37 Fare: what's the binary for xcvb? 14:56:10 Actually, I did start to research Corman, but something blocked me. I don't remember what. 14:56:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:56:58 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-109-10.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 14:56:58 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-172-123.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:57:10 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:24 artifact [~pyrrhic@c-24-60-190-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:27 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:58:11 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:59:26 -!- Fare [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:59:27 -!- pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:32 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 15:03:30 *nyef* realizes that he's misinterpreted the spec for the code he's just written. 15:04:51 is it possible define bar in package foo such that (foo:bar x y) works while use-package does not use bar? Perhaps that is a contradiction in terms. 15:04:56 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cvqxczacnkuwcnja] has joined #lisp 15:05:16 clhs import 15:05:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_import.htm 15:05:28 In general, do not use USE-PACKAGE. 15:05:36 No, not IMPORT. EXPORT ! 15:06:10 uh, yeah. I reversed the question in my head :p 15:07:05 I'm still wanting (use-package foo :as bar) 15:07:05 -!- jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 15:07:33 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:33 import is the wrong end. I want (package ... (:use :foo)) to not import bar, but I want foo:bar notation rather than foo::bar. 15:07:52 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:07:56 artifact: yes, what nyef said 15:08:00 carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.227] has joined #lisp 15:09:30 -!- greaver [~jo@212.88.117.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:56 Hrm. 15:10:04 Actually, what you might want is shadowing. 15:10:35 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:48 shadowing is it 15:10:55 Yeah, (defpackage ... (:use :foo) (:shadow "BAR")). 15:11:16 jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:11:18 woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 Hmm. If cgi values are passed on std input or then env I thought sb-ext:*posix-argv* would cover it. Hmm. 15:11:32 but that's still the wrong end. the mechanism should be in (:use :foo) or nowhere. 15:11:44 artifact: You are shit out of luck. 15:11:47 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:47 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 cymew: argv is the command line. 15:11:55 cymew: But those are command line arguments, not the environment nor standard input. 15:12:06 shit you're right 15:12:09 I'm too tired 15:12:19 ok, I that's why I initially wondered if it's a contradiction in terms. thanks. 15:12:32 There are sepparate streams for std input and the cli input, naturally 15:12:55 Back to searching tha manual for that stream 15:12:55 "naturally"? 15:13:10 you know, Murphy. Look in one place? 15:13:19 ..it's in the other place 15:13:35 Ah! So, not sb-sys:*stdin* ? 15:13:59 nyef: no, no. I want to be able to do (use-package cl-ppcre :as re) and then be able to (re:scan "foo" str) 15:14:03 That might be the name of it 15:14:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:14:52 If there were such a mechanism then it would be slightly nicer to have (ql:load "foo"), but since someone might (:use :ql) there's no sense in conflicting with load. 15:15:54 Actually, there are some packages that one simply doesn't :use, instead always using an explicit package prefix all the time. 15:16:26 The || package in some implementations is like that, the XLIB package in CLX, and so on. 15:16:29 is ql one of those? 15:16:47 you mean that it's possible to throw an error if a packaged is :used? 15:16:54 No, it's just Not Done. 15:17:27 (That is, sometimes it is done, but the more usually accepted style is not to do it.) 15:18:57 nyef: doesn't use even CL? 15:19:09 Sure, use CL. 15:19:30 But you wouldn't :use ||, now would you? 15:19:55 ok, i'm a propnent of USing as little packages as possible 15:20:13 *drdo* is a :USEr 15:20:28 nyef: || package? 15:20:46 p_l|backup: Some implementations have the empty string as a nickname for the keyword package. 15:20:58 Say it ain't so! 15:21:27 To explicitly escape such a thing, you end up with ||. 15:22:20 What's the advantage of having such nickname for the keyword package? 15:22:45 Simplifies the reader logic just a bit. 15:23:09 drdo: I think it allows for ... ignoring keywords in rader implmentation... it's after all, just a reference to a symbol in package || 15:23:30 Oh, i see 15:23:47 I willfully and flagrantly populate the keyword package. screw the #:foo #:bar funny business. 15:24:04 artifact: Awww yeah, like a boss 15:24:18 I willfully and flagrantly use "ALL-CAPITAL-SYMBOL-NAME-STRINGS". Screw so-called modern-mode. 15:24:23 screw :foo, just use foo 15:24:38 -!- dmytrish_ [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:50 Nah, using a bare foo ends up polluting a random package. 15:25:05 dmytrish_ [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:12 *nyef* starts his files off with a CL:DEFPACKAGE form and a CL:IN-PACKAGE form. 15:25:27 asdf should define a random package to load packages.lisp file in 15:25:32 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:40 like it does for .asd 15:26:33 not random, should be named by the sha256 hash of the octets of the file. 15:26:46 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:10 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:56 one that only contains cl:defpackage and cl:in-package 15:30:35 Is there a style rule of thumb in choosing between :foo and foo, when you can make either work? For instance slots are defined with (foo ...), but they could have been defined with (:foo ...). Contrariwise, defpackage has (:use :foo), but it could have been (use :foo). 15:31:15 it's different between slots and defpackage 15:31:23 -!- cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-37.pdc.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:32 defpackage only cares about symbol-name 15:31:57 so there's only a question of polluting packages 15:32:02 those are just random examples. of course they're different. The point is that, in principle, either could have been designed either way. 15:32:40 keywords are useful for inter-package communication 15:32:58 that's why keyword parameters use keywords by default 15:33:11 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:33:22 ugh, it's not the parameters. It's the :use itself. 15:33:34 Just saying, could have been (use ...). 15:33:47 so, those aren't random examples? 15:34:25 artifact: it's the difference between using the slower string= or string-equal instead of eql or eq. 15:34:35 They are random. You know how some things have a style of (:foo ...) and others have a style of (foo ...)? 15:35:09 You mean, most things have a style of (:foo ...) and LOOP has a style of (foo ...)? 15:35:10 what has a style of (foo ...)? 15:35:22 stassats`: LOOP! 15:35:23 Like the html examples in PCL use (:foo ...) when they could have used (foo ...) 15:35:27 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-109-10.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:35:41 ugh, loop is a different story. 15:35:49 well it may be related, but it's not what I'm getting at. 15:36:00 symbols and strings are different things 15:36:07 of course they are. 15:36:10 stassats`: that rhymes! 15:36:25 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.13] has quit [] 15:36:45 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:37:49 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.13] has joined #lisp 15:37:58 from PCL: (html (:p "foo " (:i "bar") " baz")). What is the reason to prefer that over (html (p "foo " (i "bar") " baz")). 15:38:11 Either could be made to work. 15:38:26 artifact: it's slightly clearer to me that the former is using symbols as data, not as function application. 15:38:39 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:33 the "either could be made to work" is a weak argument 15:39:41 Xach: shouldn't that detail be abstracted away? Why is it your business whether it's data or function application? 15:40:15 i'd be concerned as a reader and a writer of such code 15:40:28 artifact: I have to know the evaluation model of the HTML macro, and keywords provide a strong hint at a casual glance. 15:41:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21446.ipt.aol.com] has left #lisp 15:41:05 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:41:06 pnq [~nick@ACA21446.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:55 but using that reasoning, it should be (:foo ...) for slots, not (foo ...). 15:42:31 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 artifact: slots are named by symbols, and by that mechanism you can avoid collisions by using the package system. 15:43:01 artifact: you usually do not mix slot definitions with other executable code 15:47:36 what about initforms? 15:47:53 what about them? 15:48:03 they're executable! 15:48:15 yeah, and clearly marked with :initform in front of them 15:49:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:50:40 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 15:50:42 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:43 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:51:34 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-109-64-185-118.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:13 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:54:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 slyrus: How bad does http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/mv-setf.lisp look to you? 15:57:01 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 (For the record, completely untested.) 16:00:41 nyef: wait, you can't do (setf (my-gf foo) (values 1 2 3))? 16:01:00 No, because it'd take the primary value? 16:02:09 As soon as you have a setf-function, the semantic is to take the primary value and pass it as the first parameter. 16:02:59 oh, guess I never really thought about this before 16:03:16 Hence CLIM B.4. 16:05:15 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.64.185.118] has joined #lisp 16:05:39 Also note that an mv-setf accessor is only allowed a single parameter, which must be class-specialized. 16:06:55 (The remaining parameters in the lambda-list for the setf side are the values.) 16:07:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Eider.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:07:19 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:07:22 I noticed that last week. I expected (setf a 3 b 4) to give '(3 4) to multiple-value-bind. Is that what mv-setf does? 16:08:13 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:21 Umm. No. 16:08:36 oh, nevermind then. 16:08:54 mv-setf is for allowing (setf (something foo) (values 3 4)) to work when you need to specialize on FOO. 16:09:24 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cvqxczacnkuwcnja] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:05 Works for any definite number of values (not an indefinite number, though, for obvious implementation reasons.) 16:10:19 so incidentally, then, why doesn't setf return the stuff evaluated, either via a list or multiple values? 16:10:32 it only returns the last one, iirc 16:11:16 setf for multiple pairs of place and value is defined to behave as a setf for each pair in turn, as though in a PROGN. 16:11:31 nyef: so it expands to (multiple-value-call #'(setf something) (values 3 4) foo)) ? 16:13:19 oh. just ignore that :) 16:13:22 nikodemus: Basically, but not quite. Seems more likely that it expands to an m-v-b for the values first, then a call. 16:13:46 (Per the semantics of long-form DEFSETF or DEFINE-SETF-EXPANDER / GET-SETF-EXPANSION. 16:13:55 artifact: if you want it to return what's evaluated: (setf (vales a b) (values 3 4)) 16:14:14 My question is more along the lines of: what's the harm in making this work: (multiple-value-bind (x y) (setf a 5 b 6) ...) 16:14:18 s/vales/values/ 16:14:40 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:42 taking additional space when this is rarely used? 16:14:44 obviously in that case it's of no use, but for complex a and b. 16:14:55 ok fair enough. 16:14:56 jmbr [~jmbr@18.Red-88-2-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:14 you have to come up with a real example first 16:15:17 artifact: Because PLACEs are permitted to accept multiple values, at which point it breaks down? 16:15:41 artifact: the problem with your proposition is that (+ 2 (setf a 1 b 2)) would return 3 instead of the SPECIFIED and EXPECTED 4. 16:15:50 leo2007 [~leo@th041109.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 16:15:55 hence the harm. 16:16:12 nyef: return the primary values? 16:16:23 (setf (values (values a b) c) (values (values 1 2) 3)) => 1, 3 16:16:29 artifact: now, nobody prevents you to defined a multiple-value-setf that behaves like you want. 16:17:41 pjb: what? I already said fair enough. You're giving an example of how it currently works. I was asking why it wasn't designed the other way. You can't cite an example of how it currently works in order to show why it's not designed the other way. 16:17:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.89.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:17:59 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-almctqarwxeqboya] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:18:04 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B32725E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:10 but I said fair enough. which is basically nevermind. 16:18:13 _dev0_ [~dev@c-24-16-28-215.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:18 artifact: it was designed the way it was designed because that's how people who designed it wanted it to be designed. 16:18:32 There's no other "why". 16:18:43 that's not an answer 16:18:53 And it just doesn't matter what the specifiers' choices were, since you can always write your own macro to do whatever you want. 16:18:54 pjb: That doesn't make sense 16:19:06 what made those people to decide that way? 16:19:23 You usually call it rationale, that's what artifact is asking for 16:19:26 Yes, it makes sense. It's THE FUNDAMENTAL feature of lisp: take what is provided, and if you don't like it, implement whatever you want. 16:19:29 You have DEFMACRO! 16:19:39 stassats`: it just does not matter. 16:19:43 It is arbitrary. 16:19:48 well, it doesn't matter to you 16:19:48 And for this reason, there's defmacro. 16:19:51 pjb: That's not true 16:20:03 Odaym [~unix@212.36.209.4] has joined #lisp 16:20:17 macros don't magically solve everything 16:20:29 The rational has been explained above: (setf a 1 b 2) == (progn (setf a 1) (setf b 2)) 16:20:35 drdo: yes they do. 16:20:49 pjb: no they don't 16:21:01 drdo: there's only 27 special operators in lisp. Try to program using only them and functions, you'll see how they magically solve everything! 16:21:05 Well sure, you can argue for turing completeness 16:21:09 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326D0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:13 No, that's not my argument. 16:21:20 You can always write a new lisp on top of CL 16:21:25 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:21:26 But that's not really a very good point 16:21:29 My argument is that lisp doesn't exist. There are just macros, and you make your own language with them. 16:21:32 "you can't hug a child with macros" 16:21:49 drdo: that's the essential point! Each application write their own language on top of CL. 16:21:52 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:22:04 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:07 pjb: You still have some fundamental constrains 16:22:17 Unless you choose to implement everything from scratch 16:22:24 *constraints 16:22:25 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:11 stassats`: I wouldn't bet, knowing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sXuHnf_lo 16:24:19 Wow, that's.... 16:24:32 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.192] has joined #lisp 16:24:32 -!- pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:24:37 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 16:24:47 The only rationale offered is that it would be unnecessarily complex, which I bought with a "fair enough". Rationales which cite current behavior on the basis of the convention of the current behavior amount to at best a misunderstanding of the question and at worse circular logic. 16:25:13 artifact: What's your problem? Can't you write your own multiple-value-setf ? 16:25:18 and "you write your own langauge on top of lisp" is a kind of baloney that pushes people off lisp 16:25:31 stassats`: but that's the lisp way. 16:25:42 -!- splittist [~splittist@130-249.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:25:46