00:00:35 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 00:02:46 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:04:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@92.58.136.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:49 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-46.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 00:05:29 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 00:06:56 well, that's annoying. my little opengl image viewer works fine if width >= height, not otherwise :( 00:09:15 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:10 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-235-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:15:49 pocket [~pocket@p1064-ipbf3804hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:16:27 -!- pocket [~pocket@p1064-ipbf3804hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:34 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:06 -!- mephisto [~mephisto@dyn-166.pool2.cable.TORON12.iasl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:19:12 -!- Jacke [jacke@valhalla.bofh.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:00 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 00:20:59 artifact [~pyrrhic@c-24-60-190-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:16 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 00:22:34 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 00:22:41 Jacke [jacke@valhalla.bofh.org] has joined #lisp 00:25:13 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:17 I am surprised that defclass has so much redundancy. For example from quicklisp: https://gist.github.com/891595 00:25:57 Why not make a macro: :initarg t :accessor t 00:26:11 you can't use t as an accessor 00:26:35 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 00:26:52 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 00:27:31 gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 00:27:45 I would think most any programmer would sense that something is amiss with that code. 00:28:52 that's a particularly bad case ... 00:29:00 defclass often gets a lot more variation than that 00:29:05 orivej [~orivej@host-71-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 00:29:46 also some people prefer to have accessors with variant names, eg (data :accessor header-data) ... or data-of or whatever, and you *can't* do that robustly with a macro (defstruct does, and it's a bad idea) 00:30:02 nonetheless, what is the downside of making it better even for the variations: :initarg t :accessor t. Why not? 00:30:17 nobody wrote it into the standard! 00:30:25 <_3b> main downside is that it is too late to change the spec 00:30:36 but lisp is the programmable programming language. we can do anything with macros. 00:30:45 I can make defclass do that. 00:30:46 <_3b> so if you make small changes like that to your own code, it will just confuse people 00:30:57 <_3b> if you only write code for you, then go ahead 00:31:00 I would call it defclass-nicer, though. 00:31:09 (not overwrite defclass) 00:31:14 *_3b* thought defclass* was the standard name for that sort of thing 00:31:47 hm, so foo* is the standard way to name a foo which is slightly different than the standard foo? 00:31:49 <_3b> also, keep in mind that the initarg and the accessor(s) are the important parts of the API, not the slot names 00:32:12 artifact: yup. it'd be foo' like in math if that weren't used for QUOTE 00:32:53 Yeah, I definitely think of defclass* as defclass-prime 00:32:55 it doesn't fit well, because there's let and let*. There needs to be a symbol for "user-defined". 00:33:14 user-defined-variant 00:34:29 artifact: I think The Lisp Way is a bit against distinguishing 'system' and 'user' 00:34:43 artifact: CL is already inconsistent enough to accept the prime meaning  let*, list*  00:34:57 I have my own let, too. What do I call it? 00:35:10 <_3b> artifact:let 00:35:17 artifact: what does it do differently? 00:35:30 It removes the double-paren. (let (a 1 b 2) ... ), assigns a to 1, b to 2. 00:35:39 (not actually called let) 00:35:41 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:35:42 *sellout* is definitely a fan of shadowing symbols from the CL package :) 00:36:03 artifact: call it FLET, because it's flatter than ordinary let. wait... :) 00:37:46 It's a great big macroscopic help to me, so I'll call it macrolet. 00:37:59 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:38:34 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-46.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:57 :accessor t would really be too confusing? I think it would be immediately understood. 00:39:04 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 00:41:01 artifact: CL arguments can be a tad opposed here. 00:41:41 On the one hand, if you don't like something you can define your own. On the other hand, adding *syntactic* (as opposed to semantic) conveniences is frowned on because it makes the reader have to learn more things. 00:45:21 Isn't the whole point of macros *syntactic* convenience? That's effectively an argument against macros. 00:46:05 In a macro-less language, abstraction can only go so far. Syntactic abstraction is after that. 00:47:37 mon_key annotated #120964 "string-insert-char tweak w/ timing fun" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120964#6 00:49:39 I see redundancy as universally a bad thing. The only reasons for keeping it are technical/environment/social/etc ones. I don't really understand how those could be so big. 00:50:14 there are things like alexandria, after all. 00:50:34 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:50:56 artifact: I was presenting my interpretation of a particular commonly held and possibly unexamined pair of opinions ... don't build a thesis around disagreeing with it. 00:51:14 -!- fihi09` [~user@pool-96-224-47-137.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:45 oh I didn't take it personally. I appreciate your explanation of CL culture. 00:51:48 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:55 -!- Deltafire [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:52:58 I'm just blabbering as a consequence of my culture shock. 00:52:58 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 00:54:08 -!- zawart [~zawart@bal165.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Wychodzi] 00:54:21 Perhaps there's a social stigma to writing defclass*, for example. Something must explain this usualness. 00:54:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:55:41 _3b: replace is definitely faster. I added the timing fncns for some comparison over smaller strings using non-ASCII chars. 00:59:36 _3b: also, seems like clamping the upper bound of string indexes to just unter SBCL x86-32's most-positive-fixnum helps string-insert-char a little ... anyone inserting one char into a string longer than 536870911 deservers to loose :) 01:00:11 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.160.138] has joined #lisp 01:02:32 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 01:10:46 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:59 -!- koning_robot [~user@s5597d50c.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:12:35 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 01:12:58 Deltafire [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:15:26 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:15:54 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:09 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 01:17:17 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has quit [Quit: Offline] 01:26:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:27:51 mcspiff [~user@142.68.204.68] has joined #lisp 01:28:34 panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:30:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:33:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-65.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:39:03 danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:39:58 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:41:00 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:41:19 mon_key: what happens when that happens? SBCL can't work with a 0.5 gig buffer? 01:43:15 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 01:51:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 01:53:06 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:55:28 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.59.248.60] has joined #lisp 01:55:42 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.74] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:56:02 -!- Deathaholic is now known as Mococa 01:56:59 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:29 artifact: It's a touch more likely that the change lets the compiler know that some integer value will never exceed FIXNUM range, which in turn allows it to generate more efficient code. 02:04:00 At the same time, aren't array indices (for array-total-size) clamped to FIXNUM range or less in the first place? 02:07:13 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:07:46 I know it's for efficiency. On the other hand, making SBCL barf on a 0.5 gig buffer seems questionable. 02:08:55 row-major-aref limits it to a fixnum. 02:09:29 On the other hand, CL only requires supporting 8k element arrays ... 02:09:29 Of course if it's fixnum already, then it's a good find. 02:09:38 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:43 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/glo_v.html#valid_array_row-major_index 02:11:03 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:26 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:12:27 -!- panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 02:13:32 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:30 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-134-173.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:33 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:15:43 -!- 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[~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- simontwo_ [~simon@78.129.201.122] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:44 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:06:45 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:06:47 -!- rtoym_ is now known as rtoym 03:07:44 How to use ccl for shell scripting? 03:08:30 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 03:08:33 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634070.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:13 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634070.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:09:47 basically I want to have the first line #!/usr/bin/ccl64 and the rest in lisp. 03:09:49 Ideas? 03:10:50 -!- danlentz [~textual@c-68-46-98-23.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:11:04 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:11:47 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-46-98-23.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:32 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 03:14:26 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 03:14:26 guther_ [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-xpmjzkzcxomxsiym] has joined #lisp 03:14:26 elliottc1ble [~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:26 tic_ 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has quit [Excess Flood] 03:28:32 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 03:29:03 gko [~gko@111.81.147.8] has joined #lisp 03:29:05 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 612 seconds] 03:32:55 -!- Zeiris [~Zeiris@S010600a0d1423e73.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:25 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:36:53 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@wireless-128-62-184-22.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:27 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.94.125] has joined #lisp 03:40:56 ballpeen [~ballpeen@adsl-37-73-249.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:46:37 without using scientific notation, about how ancient is sbcl v 1.0.40? 03:46:47 ...It's at least a year old, which feels old, but http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/platform-table.html shows Darwin and Windows versions that are much older as "supported", so perhaps Fedora 14 (with 1.0.40) isn't that bad... 03:47:21 *mtd* finds #sbcl. 03:50:29 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-121-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 03:57:22 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 04:02:54 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:03:53 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-105-25.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:19 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.68.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:06 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.113] has joined #lisp 04:05:34 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-75.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:05:59 -!- ballpeen [~ballpeen@adsl-37-73-249.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:06:34 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 04:09:31 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping 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04:34:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.197.21] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:35:41 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:09 algorist [~quassel@host155-215-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:36:17 -!- algorist_ [~quassel@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:36:23 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:37:14 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:37:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:17 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 04:38:31 morning 04:39:31 morning nikodemus 04:40:02 amusing realization of the day: with-timeout is not asynch interrupt safe 04:40:11 *ka-ching!* 04:40:28 sorry, asych _unwind_ safe 04:44:20 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:49 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-105-25.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:45:50 -!- algorist [~quassel@host155-215-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:48:07 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:48:34 algorist [~quassel@host156-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:49:20 Posterdati [~tapioca@host156-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:49:37 -!- elliottc1ble is now known as elliottcable 04:53:47 kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:54:02 How do you specify the install prefix when compiling sbcl? 04:54:02 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:54:20 ./make.sh goes straight for /usr/local. 04:54:43 -!- zbigniew_ is now known as zbigniew 04:55:54 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 04:56:13 --prefix ? 04:57:04 slyrus: On the install. --prefix=/usr/local 04:57:40 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:18 I know there's know configure script, but I was wondering if there was something equivalent. 04:58:19 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-163.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:30 it's been a while since I've done this, but I used to do 'INSTALL_ROOT=/foo/bar sh install.sh' 05:01:46 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:02:19 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:25 slyrus: Thank you. 05:02:44 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.112.162.54] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:06:57 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-154-163.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:54 nostoi [~nostoi@245.Red-88-27-67.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:01 kevin01123: unless there is something wrong, 'sh make.sh --prefix=/foo/bar ; sh install.sh' should work as well 05:11:10 slyrus: Thanks. 05:12:48 -!- kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:15 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14:46 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:03 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@245.Red-88-27-67.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:20:09 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.127.118] has left #lisp 05:20:17 madsenz1 [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:24 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-234-113.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:46 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:24:40 -!- prip [~foo@host62-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:26:20 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-230-34.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined 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waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-d9bd9571.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:57:48 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-225-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:26 Help, please. Fresh quicklisp install; (ql:quickload "clsql-sqlite3") on sbcl/linux/amd64 gives an error: 07:00:43 erred while invoking # on # 07:01:04 Any ideas? 07:01:29 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-225-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:25 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-94-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:02:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:03:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:04:27 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.162.53] has joined #lisp 07:04:52 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.162.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:10 splittist [~splittist@81-230.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:06:11 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:06:14 morning 07:06:28 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-35-172.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:06:40 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:05 -!- algorist [~quassel@host156-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:07:54 flip214: known issue. clsql was naughty and used undocumented internals which have changed in sbcl hence breaking clsql (and elephant, which was equally naughty) 07:08:09 ok, thank you 07:08:16 don't need it right now anyway 07:08:21 algorist_ [~quassel@host156-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:09:10 flip214: while waiting for upstream, you can try https://github.com/nikodemus/clsql -- it should work, but i don't know or use clsql, so it may be i missed a subtlety while fixing the obvious issue 07:09:44 thank you - I'll bookmark that 07:09:47 (the quicklisp google group is a pretty good source for stuff like this) 07:10:16 note that that repo is going to go away as soon as upstream gets fixed 07:12:03 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:12:09 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 07:13:08 is it known that the cliki.net search is broken? I get "517 results found, showing results 1 to 10. " but nothing below 07:16:02 hi 07:19:02 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-wzkaxtwdsvcrydsj] has joined #lisp 07:21:10 mnau [~xc344@125.73.42.89] has joined #lisp 07:26:06 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:26:06 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.64.185.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:03 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:21 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:13 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 07:31:34 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:32:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:32:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:33:44 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:19 SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 07:36:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:33 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:38:08 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 07:38:08 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 07:38:08 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:42:30 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:43:34 it seems after loading quicklisp, I can just use require to load files. 07:44:46 leo2007: you have to #'ql:quickload libraries you don't have locally yet. But after that, require should work 07:45:01 or (asdf:load-system ...) 07:45:24 nikodemus: is require supported portably? 07:45:39 it seems I can just (require THING) 07:46:15 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@81.193.143.67] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 07:46:45 madnificent: require is practically portable, yes 07:47:28 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:48:03 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-143-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:48:30 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 07:49:56 -!- davidmiller [~user@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #lisp 07:50:33 onixie [~user@222.92.128.242] has joined #lisp 07:51:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:41 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 07:52:58 tcr [~tcr@92.58.136.182] has joined #lisp 07:53:35 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:50 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.65] has joined #lisp 07:54:19 -!- onixie [~user@222.92.128.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:08 http://twitter.com/#!/BigThingist/status/51672197542060032 07:56:10 oops 07:56:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:49 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 07:56:51 hi! 07:59:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:26 jdz: hehe 08:00:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@92.58.136.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:00:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-65.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:44 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-35-172.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:03:20 hello rexim 08:03:21 jdz, you meant that for c++, boost, whet? 08:03:47 rexim: You are pretty new here right? 08:03:57 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:31 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-26-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:33 beach: yes. 08:11:00 rexim: What brings you to #lisp? 08:12:55 beach: the law of attraction for things that are awesome? 08:13:14 chatvermogen 08:13:32 JuanDaugherty: German? Dutch? 08:13:32 oder chatvergnugen 08:13:58 benny hill german 08:16:31 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BED9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:19 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7F66D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:22:28 beach: I want to learn lisp languages and sitting in lisp communities helps me :) 08:22:58 rexim: are you reading a book? 08:24:04 Not about common lisp 08:24:06 SICP 08:24:25 well, that's a good start ... 08:24:39 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:25:45 incf flip214 08:25:58 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:25:58 rexim: good luck 08:26:07 minion: sicp 08:26:08 sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 08:26:53 madnificent: thanks :) 08:27:16 rexim: see the video lectures, too ^^ 08:27:34 ok 08:28:55 Unfortunately, english isn't my native language, so I will not speak too many here. 08:29:38 youguy [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:16 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 tcr [~tcr@92.58.136.182] has joined #lisp 08:35:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:36:20 rexim: That is true for most people on #lisp I would guess. 08:36:33 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:37:42 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gaqvofkhajatunur] has joined #lisp 08:44:17 youguy_ [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:55 -!- youguy [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:48:28 where is OBJC:LOAD-FRAMEWORK in CCL? 08:48:43 It is documented in the manual. 08:55:07 -!- youguy_ [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:56:14 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.147.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:00:05 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 09:00:32 onixie [~user@222.92.128.242] has joined #lisp 09:02:44 leo2007: could be ccl::load-darwin-framework ? 09:03:23 -!- onixie [~user@222.92.128.242] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:33 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:03:35 splittist: I don't have that. Do I need to load something else? 09:04:13 leo2007: no idea - I'm on Windows. But just try (apropos 'framework) or similar terms and see what pops up (: 09:05:03 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:14 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.65] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:10:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.83] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-143-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 09:16:50 -!- pavlvs327 [pavlvs@231.56.143.24.cm.sunflower.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:27 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.153] has joined #lisp 09:24:33 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 09:31:23 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:31:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 09:33:45 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:27 How to call a function like SCNetworkConnectionGetStatus (http://tinyurl.com/3xxwb8o) in ccl? 09:39:52 Any hints how to deal with that miscalculation on x86? http://paste.lisp.org/display/120983  same result on any recent sbcl version. 09:42:31 antoszka: isn't that due to the precision of the architecture? 09:42:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.26.81] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 09:42:44 leo: Sounds like a job for an FFI. 09:43:10 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has left #lisp 09:43:23 ant: You could use ratios instead of floats. 09:44:06 madnificent: We think it is (it's a friends code), he says he tried double-float, too. Just asking if there's a workaround that would allow to keep the precision but optimize anyhow. 09:44:41 Perhaps some intermediate value has to be thrown from the coprocessor on 32bit, but can be kept on 64bit because of more registers? 09:44:57 Probably something like that. 09:45:07 but that would be a 80bit=>64bit degradation with double-float ... that this makes such a difference? 09:45:11 antoszka: someone smarter than me might figure out something :) 09:45:19 ratios are likely to be slower, I think 09:45:24 flip214: Maybe with the number of iterations, yes. 09:47:03 long-float doesn't help, either. 09:47:19 3333.334007406828d0 09:48:32 how about reduced iterations? Still a difference? 09:49:27 Why not use ratios? They're exact ... 09:50:14 Zhivago: And coerce to float on output? 09:50:46 Zhivago: but ratios are slower, aren't they? by a big margin, i fear ... 09:51:47 flip214: and they let one avoid the problem under discussion 09:52:26 yes, but it's only a workaround ... the problem is still there. Might as well change the calculation to "fix" the problem ... 09:52:44 what is the workaround? 09:53:39 not using floats if one wants exact calculations is not a workaround, but the right thing to do 09:53:45 flip214: if you're using floats you're already committed to getting a 'wrong' answer, so why is it necessary to get the same wrong answer? 09:54:09 Yeah -- it might be too expensive. 09:54:18 But if you want no loss of precision ... 09:54:53 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:55:35 I meant it is a workaround because it happens to work with the example 0.1 ... if there's something irrational you're out of luck 09:55:54 Update: x86: single, double, long  wrong answer; x64 single  correct answer; double, long  wrong answer (same as x86). 09:59:43 -!- orivej [~orivej@host-71-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A84FE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:04:20 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.250.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:05:22 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 10:05:38 Ratios seem infinitely slower (still running). 10:05:40 longfin [~longfin@49.24.61.154] has joined #lisp 10:06:08 So I either screwed the code, or using them is plain out of the question. 10:07:29 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.197.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:01 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust1263.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:15 antoszka: how do you know what's the correct answer, if the ratios aren't finished? I'm not sure whether the comments have been verified independently 10:11:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:34 flip214: it's just far off to what you get without any optimisations 10:11:45 flip214: which seem to give a sensible answer on any arch 10:12:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:12:15 ok, without optimizations same result on x86 and amd64? then it's likely to be correct 10:12:18 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:13:00 flip214: yes. 10:14:18 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 10:18:14 antoszka: kill your ratio-testrun. 10:18:32 flip214: trying to :) 10:18:40 doesn't react to c-c c-c 10:18:51 I'm trying with (dotimes c 33) and it takes more than a minute 10:18:57 lol 10:19:00 that's exponential in cpu and memory 10:19:19 with (dotimes (c 9)) i get this: 10:19:25 586289558659485612702199470512425210183566188366140122341465444044286792367882736113190507916692612165890394961069245687721404861696384313462791047990954399474016550472286915986634874263664792828926975418169662741905330166728642824065996089840938011242398051593246822399265394469340487733851236891666166742264683734774733342143987485754003321035254204315023496919447378387980540771770934020747265030128439025392213401420536035682549240749666881542751318458 10:19:25 92405062020046095422142952915989663065095454505543155330954423533912627840140320069144973915932045382265674285290618290176532589221589021219822479506339686118499102736707422431392203877742098516234288919030125789785429822908761042008810941/916264030613677534191420175939044686816675293341274109089541592634229988743278414160498851779129614783853406518845382421089729031968390256600463622196352528075358424213169919212505908158149292662550464376030794682862 10:19:26 160567427656852449986539749712047820268379862637271935705267260899880248879547527886814436723779912349586051763659976254040582696938182516155420195259827492310867891022696646500974116083499595311808741805531320887932342404251765788131132726229749035258580820831554228768057152840683845223947300315331387899766164706552916703580890966615326539910243541584255733821176892706370872203863729363142670882474473833665895842088029867358349571388992658352110606070 10:19:31 0481019310517625904410 10:19:33 sorry 10:19:35 didn't think that it would wrap 10:19:47 Uhm. 10:20:31 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:20:48 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7553ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:07 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 10:21:12 even an interrupt doesn't really work, because the backtrace hangs as well 10:21:12 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-224-158-97.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:21:12 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:23:17 try (interrupt-thread thread-id #'abort) 10:23:17 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:23:58 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-111-210.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:27:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:40 Do you think I could delegate the calculations to some high-performance library (blas/lapack ring a bell)? 10:28:11 Or would the ffi (and what not) overhead kill any potential gains? 10:32:15 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.24.61.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:35:30 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.153] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:37:07 benny [~benny@i577A2EA3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.153] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 longfin [~longfin@49.24.142.137] has joined #lisp 10:43:37 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit 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has joined #lisp 12:56:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:56:57 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:57:24 antoszka: Interesting. FWIW, cmucl using sse2 and x87 gives 3546.255 in both cases, for both the optimized and unoptimized versions. 12:58:45 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.220] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:59:27 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:25 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:02:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:04:50 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.193.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:07:35 rtoym: C gives different answers with -O0 and -O3 on x86 13:07:46 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:08:01 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:25 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:43 It gives the same answer for me. 13:11:37 Oh. Probably because in both cases it's using sse2. Need to find a different machine or the right flags. 13:12:09 rtoym: can't you set -march? 13:12:34 rtoym: or some other flag to disable sse2 support 13:12:40 billitch [~billitch@78.250.217.222] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 --mfpmath=387 for gcc. 13:12:48 Exactly. I just don't remember what. 13:12:51 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:13:00 or -m32. 13:13:16 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:13:44 -m32 didn't make a difference (on my mac), but -mfpmath does. 13:13:50 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:07 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:36 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:37 And now I remember why cmucl produces the same answer on x87. 13:18:06 -!- sellout [~Adium@64.134.66.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:18:41 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:22 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-delbkhbzjzgnqrdp] has joined #lisp 13:24:36 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:24:44 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-19-28.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 13:25:08 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:27 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:38 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.86] has joined #lisp 13:26:42 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:42 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:26:42 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 13:27:53 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:07 HerrBlume [~user@stgt-4d03a249.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:51 hi, is there a function like mapcar, but collects only non-nil values? 13:32:31 HerrBlume: mapcan, but your function must return lists 13:32:49 (remove-if #'null (mapcar ...))? 13:33:13 or use loop or iterate with a conditional before collect (resp. collecting) 13:34:08 jdz: i don't want to concatenate results 13:34:20 thank you, i will use loop 13:35:15 loop has an "it" binding in the then-part, IIRC - so "if (something ...) collect it" might be what you want 13:35:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.63.143.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:05 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-125-145.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:45 flip214: thank you 13:38:55 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-delbkhbzjzgnqrdp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-83-16.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:42:52 jdz pasted "for HerrBlume" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120984 13:43:51 -!- _akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:50 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:51 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:48:52 HerrBlume: so, is (mapcar-if #'identity your-function your-list) better than your loop? 13:49:55 Bronsa [~brace@host148-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:55:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-220-24.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:25 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-220-24.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 14:02:41 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:07:37 -!- Bribek [~Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [Quit: Denne computer faldt i søvn] 14:08:39 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:43 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-71-46.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-220-24.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:07 billitch_ [~billitch@78.250.211.246] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.217.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:44 greaver [~jo@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23:39 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@180.172.53.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:25:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:25:40 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:18 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:20 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:29 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:29:11 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:29:17 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:40 morning 14:31:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:40 hi slyrus :) 14:32:41 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:35:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:35 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.97.37] has joined #lisp 14:35:39 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.97.37] has quit [Changing host] 14:35:39 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #lisp 14:36:12 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:02 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Quit:    ] 14:38:09 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:38:31 -!- billitch_ [~billitch@78.250.211.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:13 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:39:18 billitch [~billitch@78.250.211.246] has joined #lisp 14:40:54 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:42:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:42:53 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 14:43:29 astoon [~chatzilla@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 14:45:10 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-172-123.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:47:55 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:47:56 cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-37.pdc.kth.se] has joined #lisp 14:49:38 g'day. Anyone have a working example of how to use sbcl SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE in a multiple thread environment? I don't seem to be able to kill of the right (amount) threads to make it happy. I only seem to cripple my running lisp and get no core. :( 14:50:35 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:18 cymew: I find it easiest to save-lisp-and-die immediately after loading things but before starting any threads. 14:51:29 cymew: not something to run from an interactive session. 14:52:12 So start sbcl and from the cli load what's needed and invoke S-L-A-D? 14:52:20 cymew: When I want to save a core, I write dumper.lisp that has code to load the stuff, and the last thing in the file is the save-lisp-and-die bit, then i use something like sbcl --load dumper.lisp 14:52:31 right 14:52:36 I'll try that 14:52:43 When I want an executable, I use buildapp, which does it all for me with a cli interface. 14:52:59 Hmm. Buildapp, that was new. 14:53:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:54:14 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has joined #lisp 14:54:58 cymew: it's why apple called the programs on their machines 'Apps'. #littleknownfalsefacts 14:55:10 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust1263.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:56:06 did I break my local environment, or is *inferior-lisp* generally not responsive anymore? stackstace shows it waiting for input, but my input doesn't seem to arrive. 14:59:43 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:09 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:01:07 is there a good library for generating latex code from lisp? 15:01:23 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:47 im automatically generating latex reports, but it's time to refactor my old ad hoc code into something a bit more sane 15:03:03 johanbev: afaik none, though writing one wouldn't be hard 15:03:20 there's 15:03:29 you might also be interested in cl-typesetting, which does typesetting in lisp 15:03:39 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 15:03:55 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 -!- sellout is now known as Guest76484 15:04:23 thanks pkhuong p_l|backup 15:04:56 i have to stick with latex for this one i think 15:05:54 ill take a look at latex-table, seems nice 15:06:46 -!- Guest76484 is now known as sellout 15:07:20 G'morning all. 15:08:19 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 mpasternacki [~user@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:09:09 -!- mpasternacki [~user@213.129.230.10] has left #lisp 15:09:35 kamikaza [~kamikaza@92.53.53.228] has joined #lisp 15:10:13 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:37 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:47 billitch_ [~billitch@78.250.206.66] has joined #lisp 15:15:53 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-gaqvofkhajatunur] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16:28 -!- greaver [~jo@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:38 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.160.138] has quit [Quit: ] 15:17:09 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:43 johanbev: my smarkup package has latex (and cl-pdf and xhmtl) backends. 15:19:54 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-83-16.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:20:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.211.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:20:09 I used the latex backend for my thesis a couple years back, but haven't used it much (at all?) since then 15:20:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:20:20 the xhtml and cl-pdf backends see more occasional work 15:20:25 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:20:28 and morning nyef 15:23:06 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has joined #lisp 15:24:41 -!- rasterba_ [~rasterbar@50.12.160.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:55 tmh [6375b5c6@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:25:01 Greetings lispers 15:25:59 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has joined #lisp 15:26:53 slyrus: that looks really promising, ill give it a look 15:27:10 -!- cymew [~davour@dhcp-221-37.pdc.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:34 cymew [~davour@n128-p201.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #lisp 15:28:46 -!- woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:31:11 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:39 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:31:58 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 15:32:47 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] 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has joined #lisp 15:49:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.166.130] has quit [Changing host] 15:49:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:49:55 Posterdati [~tapioca@host156-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:54:41 -!- hkr [~hkr@77.63.116.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:18 ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 15:55:30 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 15:57:35 hi 15:58:45 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:52 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:59:01 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 16:00:11 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:01:20 -!- mnau [~xc344@125.73.42.89] has quit [] 16:03:18 youguy [~youguy@157.pool85-56-97.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:00 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:32 jdz: sorry for the delay: your mapcar-if seems file, but i stick to loop. Thank you. 16:11:59 sabalaba [~sabalaba@141.212.57.203] has joined #lisp 16:13:27 -!- youguy [~youguy@157.pool85-56-97.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:14:52 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-83-16.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 16:15:28 -!- ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:25 msmith [~msmit297@adsl-190-140-153.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:09 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326D0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:26 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:19:10 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19:52 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:06 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:21:25 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AE0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:23:09 -!- HerrBlume [~user@stgt-4d03a249.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:40 azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:30:29 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:05 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:33:34 urandom_ [~user@p548A3A87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:51 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-wzkaxtwdsvcrydsj] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:34:32 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:40:45 ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 16:41:57 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:24 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:47 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:43:33 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:44:04 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:44:16 -!- _dev0_ [~dev@c-24-16-28-215.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:45:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:46:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-83-16.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:49:47 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 16:52:05 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-109-10.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:52:07 -!- astoon [~chatzilla@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:09 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811279.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:05 -!- ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:55 bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 can someone give me some advice about https://github.com/rubyists/ebeats-implementations/blob/master/common-lisp/ebeats.lisp ? 16:59:08 it feels way bulkier than it should be. 16:59:15 but anytime I try to make it terse it gets ugly. 17:01:32 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 17:03:10 ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 17:03:57 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:15 bougyman: you can use let* and re-use hours-per-beat, minutes-per-beat in the calculations for the smaller units 17:05:28 antifuchs: huh? 17:05:35 oh, i see. 17:05:52 (let* ((hours-per-beat (/ 1000 24)) (minutes-per-beat (/ hours-per-beat 60)) ...) (-: 17:06:03 otherwise, that looks good to me 17:07:12 st-14247 [~st-14247@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:07:43 -!- st-14247 [~st-14247@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:32 i'm just not used to lisp being the most LOC for anything. 17:09:35 st-14258 [~st-14258@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:10:10 bougyman: hah, yeah, time manipulation is super-verbose 17:10:18 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:39 bougyman: are you using clm? 17:10:40 I'm sure there's some time manipulation library that would shorten this by a bit, but haven't used any whose name I can remember (: 17:10:53 Fade: no, sbcl and clisp ar all i've tested on. 17:11:05 antifuchs: yeah, i looked at timestamp, but I wanted this dependency-free and as portable as possible. 17:11:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:13 ah. it looked like a piece of a music application. 17:11:22 so I was wondering if you were using common lisp music. 17:11:22 youguy [~youguy@157.pool85-56-97.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:11:24 bougyman: with quicklisp, you don't have to worry about dependencies anymore! 17:11:33 nah, it's our implementation of swatch's failed Internet Time. 17:11:44 we went with Zulu/GMT/UTC as the basis instead of GMT+1 17:11:49 *Xach* takes swatch internet time very seriously 17:12:00 neat 17:12:18 dependency-freeness is a premature optimization (: 17:12:39 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:14:08 antifuchs: oh no! the wikipedia disclaimer has been removed! 17:15:24 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:21:04 -!- youguy [~youguy@157.pool85-56-97.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:26 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:04 gigamonkey pasted "universal-to-ebeats slimmed down a bit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120988 17:22:27 bougyman: that uses WITH-TIME from monkeylib utilities. 17:22:37 gigamonkey: what does? 17:22:44 the timestamp lib? 17:23:00 bougyman: that thing I just pasted. 17:23:55 Continuing the conversation of the other day about Quicklisp allowing the breaking up of libraries into constituent parts, it would be a fine project for an aspiring Lispers to start pulling various bits of goodness out of SLIME. 17:24:54 which bits in particular? 17:25:07 (let ((beats (floor (* 1000/24 (+ hour (/ minute 60) (/ second 60 60)))))) 17:25:13 that's the magic I was lookin for. 17:25:14 thanks 17:25:29 lichtblau: someone was asking on some mailing list the other day about something to get at source-code location foo. 17:25:38 bougyman: np. 17:26:22 lichtblau: I don't actually know that there's stuff in there that could be extracted into useful libraries. But I suspect there is. 17:27:10 I tried to cut down swank (to parts not covered by other portability libraries), leaving mostly compiler and debugger-related stuff. The result is available under the name conium. 17:27:36 But it's mostly there so that hemlock doesn't break when swank changes; I don't have real goals with the project beyond that. 17:30:14 why do the sbcl darwin binaries stop at 1.0.29? Just no maintainer or what? 17:30:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:31:02 JuanDaugherty: nobody uploaded a more recent binary. 17:31:29 so people can and do build there from source? 17:31:34 darwin sbcl developers are a lazy lot 17:32:29 pupy [~pupy@120.Red-83-52-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 17:32:32 hello 17:32:35 JuanDaugherty: right. 17:32:37 JuanDaugherty: I didn't manage to find time to build a new binary lately 17:33:11 JuanDaugherty: if you want to make things easier, I recommend you install sbcl using homebrew: it'll build the latest source release (or git HEAD) using that binary release 17:33:14 does somebody remember the name of the paper where mc carthy explained lisp? 17:33:17 works rather nicely for me (: 17:33:29 antifuchs, acknowledged. 17:33:38 I recall having a pdf arround, scanned, but don't remebe it's name 17:34:08 JuanDaugherty: make sure you have a recent version of homebrew, the sbcl formula changed a few weeks ago (for the better) (-: 17:34:13 pupy: mit aim-8 i believe. 17:34:28 thanks Xach, let me see 17:36:06 antifuchs, yes, I only had macports so looking at it now 17:37:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:37:26 no, then one I recall it's a bit younger I think, he more or less explained the primitives, rather than of the theory behind them 17:37:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:58 look for lambda calculus. 17:38:02 I even printed it, but as usual, when you need something it doesn't show up anywhere 17:38:09 thanks, let me see 17:39:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:39:11 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host148-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39:29 Bronsa [~brace@host148-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:40:59 -!- hyko- is now known as hyko 17:41:23 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:42 paul0 [~user@200.146.127.116.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 i guess ruby is bundled with OSX now 17:42:45 JuanDaugherty: I've seen ruby in OSX since the early versions 17:43:17 makes sense they're largely overlapping cultures 17:43:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:43:30 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.91] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:25 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host148-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:48:09 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:17 -!- ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:42 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:50:08 Bronsa [~brace@host148-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:52:12 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53:09 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-121-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:58 mattrepl [~mattrepl@adsl-99-25-40-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:07 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@141.212.57.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:57:19 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:58:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:19 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl9-66-175.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:59:32 caoliver [~cao@75-134-208-148.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:00:38 Is N. Siivola ever here? 18:01:09 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.240.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:30 MoALTz [~no@92.8.240.117] has joined #lisp 18:01:41 caoliver: yes. 18:01:51 he hides behind the "nikodemus" alias though 18:03:03 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 18:03:35 I was looking at docstrings.lisp in the manual section, and wondering why the generated anchor names had to be as long as they are. This is in regards to the work-around of providing only a monolithic html doc for the manual. 18:03:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:03:59 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 18:04:15 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:04:15 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:05:21 If they aren't xreffed, it seems one could truncate the string, and stuff it in a has with a count, and create anchors of the form quuuuuuuuuuuuuxfixnumhere rather than running into the file name too long bug. 18:05:42 s/has/hash/ 18:05:47 -!- msmith [~msmit297@adsl-190-140-153.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 18:06:38 pjb annotated #120988 "floor takes a divisor; you want to return the string." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120988#1 18:06:39 See https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/643636 18:07:02 gigamonkey: since floor accepts a divisor, you can avoid the rational. 18:09:30 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-111-210.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:10:02 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-77-92.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:12:14 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:12:58 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:23 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-77-92.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:11 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 18:16:48 caoliver: i didn't actually write the anchor generation in docstrings.lisp, so i'm not sure 18:17:05 but as long as it works, i'm fine with truncating them :) 18:17:14 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 18:17:25 -!- Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has quit [Quit: (let ((call/cc (call/cc call/cc))) (call/cc call/cc))] 18:18:33 I'm crufting up a new version of texinfo-anchor as we speak. I'll send it to you if it behave appropriately. 18:18:40 s/behave/behaves/ 18:19:21 for what it's worth, can I encourage you to make it break hard and early in case of failure to generate uniqueness? 18:20:43 ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:21:30 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C598D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:27 How so? Those anchors are auto generated from the docstrings. The simplest think I think, since the number of files is so small, is to skip building a hashtable, and simply have a counter that gets appended to the truncated anchor name and bumped. 18:22:37 adobriyan [~ad@vulture-nat-38.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 the problem is that stuff gets repurposed 18:24:37 someone somewhere someday is going to use it on an entire lisp image, with a lowercase-common-lisp package with a "cl" nickname, or something 18:25:11 and it would be good for the thing to say "this isn't going to work" rather than generate something with hilariously wrong anchors and links 18:25:23 that's all I mean 18:25:52 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7553ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:01 docstrings.lisp should really be made into a contrib 18:27:24 i already have copies of it scattered in several projects -- all subtly modified :/ 18:27:53 I don't think anyone is manually xreffing these from the fixed portion of the manual, and if the truncation is long enough. there shouldn't be a collision. I was going to append (incf *long-anchor-count*) to the anchor name though. 18:28:03 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:13 is quicklisp undocumented except for the FAQ? 18:28:42 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-18-9.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:28:46 -!- st-14258 [~st-14258@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Quiting...] 18:29:11 appending a counter sounds good 18:29:42 running a linkchecker on the output as part of the build might be a bonus 18:29:48 no need for you to do that, come to think of it 18:30:06 JuanDaugherty: yes. 18:30:31 i see that you are an american, though you were british 18:30:37 *thought 18:31:26 I'm british. 18:31:27 Xach isn't 18:31:33 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 18:31:48 the clue is in his name 18:32:04 yes, was just thinking that 18:32:56 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 18:33:19 I don't get the clue. The world is no longer provincial enough to tell where someone is from by their name. 18:33:26 but the stereotypical set of post-1970 given names wouldn't override the britishness of Beane 18:33:45 tmh: there is in fact no clue 18:33:57 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:34:32 surely no briton would replace a Z in their name with X! 18:35:44 caoliver pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120990 18:37:13 -!- ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:33 ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 18:38:38 Krystof, so if there was in fact no clue why did you say there was one? 18:38:41 I figure that even if machine words were 16 bits there won't be most-positive-fixnum files. 18:39:59 xan_ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 18:40:56 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:41:20 caoliver, in which case you would replace 48 by 16 in that paste? 18:41:37 No. I 18:42:03 I'd like to have enough filename to know what's going on. 18:42:13 Let me see what this does. 18:43:03 didn't see how machine word size affected anything there 18:43:25 There's a bug in my generated texinfo. Ok. which foot did I stick in my mouth? 18:44:33 -!- pupy [~pupy@120.Red-83-52-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: bye!] 18:45:33 the left foot, derp 18:47:39 MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.240.117] has joined #lisp 18:49:43 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.240.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:16 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.240.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:52:17 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:00 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@adsl-99-25-40-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:55:22 schell [~schellsci@70-36-199-232.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:31 -!- schell [~schellsci@70-36-199-232.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 18:56:10 mattrepl [~mattrepl@adsl-99-25-40-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:24 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@adsl-99-25-40-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:47 ephcon: you're not kidding. 18:57:46 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:53 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 18:59:06 caoliver annotated #120990 "Fixed stupid thinkos" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120990#1 19:03:02 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-18-9.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:22 One nasty is that makeinfo seems to convert all the punctuation to hex codes, so if you make *MAXIMUM-ANCHOR-LENGTH* too short, quite reasonable xrefs to things like save-lisp-and-die get trashed. So I guess there were some xrefs from the fixed part of the manual after all. 19:03:44 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-45-82.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:03:46 FWIW, 32 is too short. 19:04:01 48 work as of now. 19:04:09 s/work/works/ 19:05:27 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:31 -!- bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has left #lisp 19:06:03 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-45-82.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:17 -!- ephcon [~user@student165-29.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:37 htierno [~htierno@dns1.certant.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:20 Still, while imprefect, this can be tuned to make a goos stab at avoiding the OS imposed name length limits. 19:08:32 s/imprefect/imperfect/ 19:08:43 s/goos/good/ ? 19:08:58 t 19:09:51 *caoliver* makes note to acquire new typing fingers. 19:11:42 uh oh 19:12:51 trivial-gray-streams broken on sbcl. that breaks a lot of stuff! 19:13:07 in 47? 19:13:09 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host148-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:13:21 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:26 What sort of broken? 19:13:40 nyef: improper (it seems) reader conditionalization 19:14:03 nyef: it uses #+#.(... (cl:find-symbol "foo" :gray-streams) ...) and that causes a barf. 19:14:05 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:21 part of a new ABCL update made just today 19:14:24 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.7.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:48 you said sbcl 19:15:00 I did indeed. 19:16:04 The update to add ABCL support broke SBCL support. Not ideal. 19:16:26 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.110] has joined #lisp 19:16:58 which reminds me. I read some of quicklisp.lisp today, and feature-expression-passes-p is probably harmlessly wrong or slightly misnamed, because it matches cons expressions on cl:and and cl:or (whereas feature expressions, strictly speaking, treat :and and :or specially 19:18:33 (I also tried it and because I am an old crufty I needed to use-only-quicklisp-systems, but otherwise has functioned fine. Thanks.) 19:19:03 can you suggest a fix? 19:20:12 lichtblau: maybe an #+abcl eval-when that does the find-symbol bit and adds the :stream-file-position-available to *features*? 19:20:39 I can think of several works-around, but I don't know what might be best. 19:21:12 how about: #+#.(cl:if (cl:and (cl:find-package :gray-streams) (cl:find-symbol "STREAM-FILE-POSITION" :gray-streams)) '(:and) '(:or)) 19:21:27 I think that would do the trick too. 19:21:29 *lichtblau* doesn't have an ABCL ready for testing purposes 19:21:36 hey, look, it's the same issue 19:21:38 well, maybe not. 19:21:40 specially. 19:22:36 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:22:48 fun fact: several years after CLRFI was launched, I happened across it and looked at CLRFI-1, which was for a function which correctly evaluated feature expressions. It had the same problem (confusion between cl:and/cl:or and :and/:or) 19:22:50 pnq [~nick@host-164.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 19:22:56 I don't know if that's actually fun 19:26:19 Xach: looks like my fingers still know how to do a cvs ci after all. Can you try it? 19:26:33 lichtblau: will do 19:27:03 (anoncvs lag?) 19:27:53 *Xach* whistles, waits 19:30:05 anoncvs? madness. (always use ssh; luckily cl.net allows that for projects you're not a member of IIRC.) 19:30:27 I don't have a clnet login. 19:30:54 Well, I might, but I don't know about it or use it. 19:30:54 erm, then who is zbeane? 19:31:02 Impostor! 19:31:29 Ok, now I know about it, but still don't use it. 19:32:35 -!- waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e78a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 19:32:44 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e78a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:48 christop` [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:22 christoph_debian [~christoph@DSL01.212.114.250.149.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 Is this the the correct form for "aliasing" a function: 19:38:32 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (setf (fdefinition ') (fdefinition '))) 19:38:37 hm compiling weblocks-stable fails with symbol conflict somewhere with cl-json? http://pbot.rmdir.de/66661ccf2342cd4243e88860bfbae00f 19:38:44 Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:53 mon_key: no. 19:38:59 mon_key: if you only want to do it at compialtion time... 19:39:06 You probably want all three eval-when situations. 19:39:24 Though I suppose you might not need :execute. 19:39:36 You do if you want to LOAD the source file instead of compiling it. 19:39:37 :execute is used when you load the source. 19:39:52 For top level forms? 19:39:57 Yup! 19:40:17 so if i have all three the "alias" may be exported in a package spec? 19:40:18 Surprised me, too, the first couple of times I looked into it. 19:40:36 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:41 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:40:41 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-121-44.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:40:44 mon_key: Exportation from a package is orthogonal to FDEFINITION. 19:41:02 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:41:02 nyef: fine :) exported and funcallable? 19:41:04 "The use of the situation :execute (or eval) controls whether evaluation occurs for other eval-when forms; that is, those that are not top level forms, or those in code processed by eval or compile. If the :execute situation is specified in such a form, then the body forms are processed as an implicit progn; otherwise, the eval-when form returns nil." 19:41:46 That says to me :execute has no control over top-level forms. 19:41:58 gigamonkey: Try the page for LOAD? 19:42:21 Ah, there it is. 19:42:43 "(Note, however, that processing of eval-when forms by load is controlled by the :execute situation.)" Parens in original. 19:42:54 christoph_debian: for what it's worth, i haven't had any trouble building weblocks-dev. 19:43:35 lichtblau: your fix builds fine on sbcl. i'll try abcl. 19:43:48 Xach: jep that built now 19:45:14 lichtblau: and it builds fine on abcl, too. 19:45:53 lichtblau: thanks! another CL crisis averted! 19:46:16 nyef: all of which sort of proves my original point--you almost always want all three. 19:46:27 it's a good thing there's no test suite to run; otherwise we'd have to consider whether it actually works. 19:46:30 mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has joined #lisp 19:46:33 correct me if I'm wrong, asdf is a makefile-esque library that allows me to build complex lisp progams? 19:46:53 gigamonkey: Exactly! 19:46:54 Landr: for some values of "-esque" 19:47:31 "statuesque: Having no arms." 19:48:02 So EVAL-WHEN should really be defined to default to all three and then allow you to say (eval-when (:except :load-toplevel) ...) or something. 19:48:25 Then you could document under what extremely odd circumstances you would want to use an :except clause. 19:49:13 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:30 Note that the default evaluation time is (:load-toplevel :execute), and almost the only thing one ever wants to do is to -add- :compile-toplevel to that. 19:50:16 (eval-when #.+always+ ...) (eval-when #.+loading-however+ ...) 19:50:53 -!- paul0 [~user@200.146.127.116.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:56 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:51:07 (defmacro compile-time-too (&body forms) `(eval-when (...) ,@forms)) ? 19:51:55 nyef: yeah, I was just thinking along those lines. 19:52:02 Oh, right. I know when you might not want :load-toplevel: If a function / macro is for compiling the file, and you don't want to clutter up the FASL or the target image. 19:52:50 Yeah. But that's a rare case. Given interactive development. 19:53:06 Given a target-compiler, though? 19:53:46 I'm just saying it's rare, not that it's never useful. 19:54:06 As with many things in CL, I'm glad it's there because when you need it, you need it. 19:54:10 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:54:10 (There are a few things in the SBCL compiler which have comments to the effect "we only need this for building the compiler, we should figure out how to leave it out of the target system"... and they've invariably come in handy in contribs and advanced user code.) 19:54:24 But in this case, the effort of figuring out when you might need it is high compared to the frequency of needing it. 19:54:29 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:55:06 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:55:22 And then there's what can only be considered the disassembler define-instruction-format fiasco: EVAL at compile-time to avoid some functions from showing up -anywhere- but where they're used, and they disappear by the time you can get a command prompt to take a look at them. 19:55:46 You could also argue that in a perfect world the Sufficiently Smart Tree Shaker woud take care of things like that. 19:56:44 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-38-69.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:57:16 Right. But for the rest of us...? 19:57:46 Okay, can any of you compiler hackers give me some simple examples of things that happen in a compiler that can be best described as tree manipulations. 19:57:59 I.e. manipulations of the AST or other, later trees. 19:58:02 Was "Sufficiently Smart" an assumption of "eventually ineveitable but TBD" or an imposition to "go ahead now and get busy with it" 19:58:41 mon_key: it's part of CL lore. Some folks used to argue that a Sufficiently Smart Compiler would solve various problems. And other folks objected. 19:58:47 mon_key: It's sarcasm, based on the assertions during the ANSI standardization process that "any sufficiently smart compiler could optimize FOO" for various values of FOO. 19:59:03 Of course, even now, said sufficiently smart compiler doesn't exist. 19:59:05 E.g. make all functions generic and assume the compiler will make that free in cases where you don't really use it. 19:59:15 *nyef* shudders. 19:59:17 e.g. if there hadn't been the AI winter would "Sufficiently Smart" now be less sarcastic overloaded 19:59:26 nyef: they do exist. But they compile javascript. 19:59:50 pjb: Which doesn't help the situation for Lisp, now does it? 19:59:57 pjb: exactly. 19:59:58 nyef: I was just going to say, if they had made more decisions in the direction that required a SSC, maybe we would have on by now. 20:00:05 nyef: Acheron. 20:00:42 Anyway, simple compilerish things that can be viewed as AST manipulations? 20:00:59 Or other tree manipulations? 20:01:01 gigamonkey: compilation starts with macro expansion. 20:01:01 nyef: yes. 20:01:10 Not Lisp specific necessarily. 20:01:18 pjb: yes, I'm aware of that. 20:01:20 gigamonkey: then internal code representations can use trees. 20:01:20 More likely to get stuff that's graph manipulation than tree manipulation, you know? 20:01:34 nyef: such as? 20:01:56 First thing Python does when it gets some bit of lisp code is convert it from an AST to a chunk of flow graph. 20:02:19 As in, we can get to this instruction from this instruction? 20:02:20 <_3b> does the BURG stuff work on trees? 20:02:22 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 20:02:49 silenius_ [~silenus@p549475DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:54 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A3A87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:03:06 Almost all compilation work from then on is defined either as a global operation on the flow graph or a local operation in terms of part of the flow graph. 20:03:51 pjb: Read an interesting article a few nights back about Javascript closures and memory-leak problems authored circa 2005... Not sure if this is still relevant today but if so likey then maybe thats "Sufficiently Smart and Suitably Corrupt" :) 20:05:24 mon_key: the differences is that there are three companies working on CL compiler with a total budget in the 7 digits (I'd bet), (and a few open implementations with no budget), while there are more companies working on javascript compilers with total budges in the 8 or 9 digits. 20:06:06 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:06:08 (Take SBCL's DEFTRANSFORM stuff. It operates on a single flow-graph node, a COMBINATION. There's some logic about when to run the transformation, and many transformations return a chunk of AST to be converted to flow-graph and spliced in place of the original COMBINATION node. 20:06:18 And I'd bet two order of magnitude more of research work is done on javascript than on CL+scheme. 20:07:12 The fact that lisp implementations still are so good, compared, is just proof of how great lisp is. 20:07:26 (and its implementers). 20:07:31 Code motion, loop strength reduction, inlining, and so on are all flow-graph hacking. 20:08:07 Yes, it seems to me the tree transformation stuff was from the beginning of compilter techniques. Nowadays things go graph sooner. 20:08:15 hm some well placed cryptographic verification and I could really like quicklisp 20:08:31 pjb: My sentiment exactly :) 20:09:17 christoph_debian: last I heard Xach definitely had plans for that. 20:09:49 pjb: relevant articles: http://blog.j15r.com/2005/01/dhtml-leaks-like-sieve.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2005/02/javascript_memo.html 20:10:17 -!- nixfreak_ [~nixfreak@mn-10k-dhcp1-3174.dsl.hickorytech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:30 urandom_ [~user@p548A5D45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:49 IIUC apropos the discussion at hand is that JS uses DOM for AST? 20:10:57 Backing up a bit, to the eval-when and leaving things out of the target image, SBCL, SYS:SRC;COMPILER;X86;INSTS.LISP, function BREAK-CONTROL has a fun FIXME. 20:12:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:01 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:03 christoph_debian: what place did you have in mind? 20:16:02 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 20:16:07 I'm thinking about that right now .. just some signing for the sake of it isn't worth anything .. and having some trust paths to all the releases / vcs snapshots et al is just something that's probably not going to happen 20:16:44 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:16:50 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:57 nyef: "leaving things out" being for example ARITH-INST-PRINTER-LIST in SYS:SRC;COMPILER;X86;INSTS.LISP ? 20:17:33 mon_key: That sort of thing, yes. 20:17:34 christoph_debian: for what it's worth, i intend to make it fairly easy to verify that you are getting the quicklisp software from me, and that the software quicklisp downloads is the software i intended to provide. i do not currently have plans for reviewing all project checkins for safety and absence of malice. 20:18:01 It's one of those things that you just Don't Need once the file is compiled... In theory, at least. 20:18:20 orivej [~orivej@host-53-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:18:46 And it's one thing if you can at least grep for the function and see "oh, it's defined over there in an eval-when". 20:19:42 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-38-69.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:43 But BYTE-IMM-CODE, which is used in BREAK-CONTROL, is defined by the SB!DISASSEM:DEFINE-INSTRUCTION-FORMAT form for BYTE-IMM, and the argument therein for CODE. 20:19:58 Hey, just found my answer to yesterdays query w/r/t FS-SEGMENT-PREFIX :) 20:20:07 Oh? 20:20:12 What was the query? 20:20:37 What it is/does/meant in disassembler presenation 20:20:40 -!- Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:20:59 (As an aside, I'm not a fan of how segment prefixes are handled in SBCL right now.) 20:21:20 segment being a memory alignment? 20:21:59 -!- Guest52100 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:22:18 Xach: yah wouldn't have thought you could check all 500 projects 20:22:19 Well, there's more than one thing called "segment", but a segment prefix is used to specify a different implicit "base register" for addressing. 20:22:26 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 20:22:27 It's an x86 architecture thing. 20:22:32 -!- xristos is now known as Guest90390 20:23:28 "base register" as in "assembly register"? 20:23:37 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:23:40 Yeah, although it's.... Umm... 20:23:49 Yes, ok thanks :) 20:24:03 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 20:24:16 A segment register holds a 16-bit integer that is two bits of security level and 14 bits of index into a table. 20:24:32 The table holds "descriptors", which include a "base" and a "limit". 20:25:16 Glav [~Glav@unaffiliated/glav] has joined #lisp 20:25:22 Any access to an address in the segment is first checked against the limit, and if that's okay then the base is added to find the actual virtual address and then the page translation mechanism gets a crack at it. 20:25:36 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:25:59 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 20:26:26 So the lack of fondness for seg prefixes is w/r/t? 20:27:54 Right now, we're treating segment prefixes as a property of the instruction, where it's actually a property of the effective address. 20:27:57 nyef: except limit is ignored in 64-bit context 20:29:04 adobriyan: Yeah, yeah. And I glossed over the segment type field, the security bits, the existence of expand-down segments, the cpu-internal cache for the actual segment descriptor contents, and who knows what else. Your point? 20:29:26 ok 20:31:32 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C598D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:13 *nyef* shudders at the memory of TSS segments. 20:35:07 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-225-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:06 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:40:37 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture-nat-38.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:51 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-52.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:58 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:44:17 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 20:45:30 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-172-26.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:18 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined 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[~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:57 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:13:10 So FORMATTER must only recieve a string not a form evaluating to one? 22:13:53 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 22:14:13 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:20 youguy [~youguy@157.pool85-56-97.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:14:41 Right. 22:14:45 "not evaluated". 22:15:19 sux. 22:16:09 How so? 22:17:06 Cuz i want it to evaluate? :P What is the benefit/rationale of it only being a string? 22:17:16 nyef: that's exactly the reason behind the split of CL:FORMATTER and CL:FORMAT 22:17:22 s/nyef/mon_key/ 22:18:02 Right, the point of FORMATTER is that it can more easily do optimization based on the control string at compile-time. 22:18:16 -!- mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:26 Ah. that makes sense. So its a _good_ thing then :) 22:18:32 FORMAT has to retain capability of interpreting format string at runtime, FORMATTER is defined in a way that explicitly makes it compile-time thing 22:18:52 st-16473 [~st-16473@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:19:00 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:50 So, FORMATTER is the gorilla behind the curtains lispers talk about when they say, "pass it to FORMAT and let it do the work..." 22:19:57 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:20:05 And the system can then have a compiler-macro to turn calls to FORMAT with a constant control string into a call to FORMAT with FORMATTER of the control string... 22:20:11 a Sufficiently Advanced Compiler can reduce calls to FORMAT into inlined results from FORMATTER 22:20:23 That too. 22:20:36 -!- silenius_ [~silenus@p549475DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:54 -!- st-16473 [~st-16473@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:58 It's still specified such that an Insufficiently Advanced Compiler has the chance to not suck completely, though. 22:22:16 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:20 Heh. I'd like a Really Smart Compiler, that looks at my literal FORMAT strings and tells me how to write them better. 22:22:26 "You should use ~[ here." 22:23:35 -!- steevy [~steevy@95-89-218-109-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Bye?] 22:23:35 That might be out-of-scope for a compiler, but an emacs mode that did that would be cool. 22:24:00 -!- youguy [~youguy@157.pool85-56-97.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:26:53 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:02 nyef: really? what about clang's expressive warnings and errors? although it doesn't generate the best code of all, many say they prefer to develop with it 22:27:29 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:57 *nyef* hasn't seriously looked at clang... at all. 22:28:26 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:33 nyef: me neither :) but i recon that some warnings i've seen are much better stated than the equivalent in gcc and others 22:28:53 (i've seen from second-hand screenshots, glimpses, etc) 22:28:57 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:30:14 anyway, about formatter, i really don't understand why it's a macro that compiles a string instead of a function. if it were a function, you could use #.(formatter ...) 22:30:58 regarding quality of clang-generated code, I heard mixed reports 22:31:03 ``"~[" format note: give us gladiator hats and well optimize that pesky conditional'' 22:31:09 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-166-141.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 22:31:16 mk2 [~user@cpc7-lewi14-2-0-cust39.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:53 however, `constantly' is a function... :P and not much shorter than (lambda (&rest args) ...) 22:32:03 followed by: "For code about to die -- we salute you!" 22:32:16 p_l|backup: excuse me, i meant "best" as in "fastest" 22:32:24 pmd: me too 22:32:31 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 22:32:36 zmv [~daniel@c934ad95.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:32:55 though my source was for a rather... specific C++ codebase 22:34:09 (Dwarf Fortress) 22:34:58 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:30 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.255.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:34 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:49 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:54 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-172-123.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:37:48 well, you can always (eval `(formatter ,...)) 22:39:00 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:20 or (funcall (macro-function 'formatter) `(formatter ,...) nil) 22:41:35 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 22:45:04 clim :parent 22:45:04 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/16-2.html#_842 22:45:32 Bwah? 22:45:40 Stupid, STUPID spec. :-/ 22:47:16 st-16714 [~st-16714@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:55:01 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:29 -!- tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:55:29 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 22:57:11 -!- st-16714 [~st-16714@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Quiting...] 22:58:23 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-172-124.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:00:40 st-16793 [~st-16793@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:00:48 -!- st-16793 [~st-16793@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:35 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-167.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:11 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:12 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-71-206.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:43 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-103-204.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:20 msponge [~msponge@149-169-127-103.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:08:22 -!- msponge [~msponge@149-169-127-103.nat.asu.edu] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:09:05 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-207.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 23:09:37 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:12:53 st-16890 [~st-16890@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:13:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:18 hamza_yer [5e4f6a30@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.79.106.48] has joined #lisp 23:16:29 hey guys, I am trying to build gambit on a beagleboard it configures fines without erros but when i type make I get /bin/sh: ../gsc-comp: not found am i missing a step? 23:18:11 hamza_yer: try #gambit 23:19:09 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:16 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:22 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:25:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:06 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:46 msponge [~msponge@149-169-127-103.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:30:16 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:18 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:29 -!- orivej_ [~orivej@host-94-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:32 dlila_ [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:33 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:33:16 the new sbcl compile-time struct warnings are catching quite a few libraries with bad values 23:33:32 orivej [~orivej@host-45-146-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 23:33:44 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:33:57 xan__ [~xan@208.80.69.214] has joined #lisp 23:34:32 -!- hamza_yer [5e4f6a30@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.79.106.48] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:37:43 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:06 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has joined #lisp 23:41:00 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:30 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:42:43 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:46:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:46:07 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:46:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:10 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:51:20 -!- st-16890 [~st-16890@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Quiting...] 23:52:24 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:52:53 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:02 st-17178 [~st-17178@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:55:34 -!- st-17178 [~st-17178@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:46 cesarbp [~chatzilla@201.151.79.16] has joined #lisp