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00:46:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:46:02 as long as it doesn't depend on special variables 00:46:15 vsync: Underspecified. 00:46:46 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has joined #lisp 00:49:08 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:09 -!- elliottcable is now known as ellie 00:50:38 -!- ellie is now known as micahjohnston 00:50:56 -!- micahjohnston is now known as inlmino 00:51:10 -!- inlmino is now known as alextgordon 00:51:18 -!- alextgordon is now known as jeannicolas 00:51:43 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:14 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:52:28 -!- jeannicolas is now known as elliotttcable 00:52:45 -!- elliotttcable is now known as elliottcable 00:58:56 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:57 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:58:57 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:03:06 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:09 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:06:31 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-70-109-183-199.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:06:40 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:39 /me finally manages to get a lispbuilder-sdl demo window running on macos from SLIME with a multithreaded SBCL 01:09:40 slyrus, memo from nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120857 has some notes on CLIM event handling. Feedback would be appreciated. 01:10:30 slyrus: run everything from *inferior-lisp*? 01:10:41 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:10:57 heh 01:11:02 no, that would be kind of beat 01:15:41 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:55 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:40 pkhuong: sb-thread:interrupt-thread 01:20:48 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100208.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:21:42 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-132-136.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:52 cl-opengl used to to something like that. 01:27:56 I was pleasantly surprised to see that it actually worked. 01:28:54 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-236-205.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:29:28 Lilax [~Lilax@5ac1976f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:34 -!- Lilax [~Lilax@5ac1976f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:31:00 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:03 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:32:40 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:44 -!- indylarry [~indylarry@c-71-57-20-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:33:03 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C0EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:33:19 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 01:33:36 sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:22 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 01:36:54 -!- jleija_away is now known as jleija 01:37:32 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has joined #lisp 01:37:32 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 01:40:46 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:40:59 back in <= 10.5, it used to be possible to turn a regular thread into a fake main thread. 01:43:50 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:31 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:07 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:38 Lilax [~Lilax@5ac1976f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:18 Hey, can anyone recommend what to use to program lisp on a mac? 01:47:24 sbcl 01:47:29 with emacs 01:47:30 I like sbcl, slime and emacs. 01:47:39 i heard about slime 01:47:39 ^^ 01:47:42 CCL/slime/emacs is another popular combo. 01:47:49 is emacs the same type of thing that works for c++` 01:47:52 ccl has some nice integration with the mac gui stuff 01:48:27 i need something of super simple 01:48:38 basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-003-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:38 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:39 i can switch on a computer and code. that s it. 01:48:41 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:48 otherwise, I think lispworks also works nicely with os x. 01:49:27 i really don't get all the differences between these uhm "things". Should i? 01:49:57 just choose one randomly, and you can change if ever it becomes an issue. 01:50:19 -!- basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-059-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:50:25 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50:37 Lilax: How do you program in C++? 01:50:45 xcode 01:50:51 i used to use something like emax 01:50:54 emacs 01:50:56 who knows 01:50:57 SBCL is free software, CCL is free software *and* gets nice paid-for updates (you can get a similar deal with SB-STUDIO); lispworks is proprietary. 01:50:58 on pc 01:51:05 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:26 xemacs! 01:52:21 paul0 [~user@189.115.62.236] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:53:50 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:54:35 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:55:02 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:a66f:d3a3] has joined #lisp 01:55:03 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:a66f:d3a3] has quit [Changing host] 01:55:03 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:55:24 i think i ll try lispworks 01:58:21 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:51 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 01:59:07 nyef: that sounds plausible to me. share that with beach. 02:00:19 omfg 02:00:29 this memoization technique is awesome 02:01:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:01:01 also, it is a beautiful name, but I think it could just be called "cache" 02:01:26 -!- Lilax [~Lilax@5ac1976f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 02:01:28 it's also called dynamic programming. 02:04:50 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:05 looks very dynamic, but still is like a cache for parameters and results for some specific function 02:05:21 Dynamic Programming(TM) 02:06:23 also learned about closures now 02:07:07 like, (let ((line-number 0)) (defun my-print (x) (print line-number) (print x) (incf line-number) nil)) 02:07:36 (example from Land of Lisp) 02:08:11 it's a bit more idiomatic to use special variables for that. 02:09:20 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:09:45 pkhuong: but the closure ensures that line-number stays private 02:10:00 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 02:11:04 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:06 slyrus: you mean, hidden from interactive development? 02:11:09 Mutating stuff like that also ensures heaps of headaches 02:11:36 drdo: it was just an example to illustrate closures 02:11:36 It also ensures that it will be lost upon reload. 02:11:53 drdo: next it uses this kind of closure to build an array of parameters and results for a function 02:11:58 It's not an example that I would have chosen. 02:12:12 well, it is just a counter 02:13:45 dmiles [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:52 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 02:15:53 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.161.72.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:55 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-97-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:19:14 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:22 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:37 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 02:19:43 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has joined #lisp 02:20:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:19 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:28 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 02:21:29 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connection] 02:37:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:48 does ecl 10.4.1 have asdf included? 02:43:31 huangho [~vitor@201-35-77-81.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:44:25 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:45:47 -!- Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:33 Rukowen__ [~Rukowen@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 02:48:33 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.161.72.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:22 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:50:55 -!- paul0 [~user@189.115.62.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:08 msponge [~msponge@149-169-208-51.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 02:51:11 paul0 [~user@189.115.62.236] has joined #lisp 02:51:12 -!- msponge [~msponge@149-169-208-51.nat.asu.edu] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:53:38 jsoft 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[~user@nat/google/x-veykwfjbzlozlsrv] has joined #lisp 03:00:49 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:01:27 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:02:04 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:02:44 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:04:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:04:52 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:11:07 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:22:03 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 03:22:06 -!- Rukowen__ [~Rukowen@113.161.72.89] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:22:32 -!- paul0 [~user@189.115.62.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:30:36 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:33:17 Deathaholic [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has joined #lisp 03:34:56 Good morning everyone! 03:34:56 beach, memo from nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120857 has some notes on CLIM event handling. Feedback would be appreciated. 03:35:17 Hey, what a surprise! Thanks nyef! 03:36:56 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:40:15 hey beach 03:40:38 heh, actually morning :D 03:43:11 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:59 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:45:04 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.222] has joined #lisp 03:45:26 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:46:34 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:50 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:33 nyef: around? 03:51:44 -!- bpalmer [~user@nat/google/x-vtdyfplbsqwoyonw] has left #lisp 03:51:52 How to disassemble the complete assembly code for a function defined by "defun"? I got only the part starting from ";no-arg-passing entry point" when using (disasseble #'my-function). thanks! 03:53:05 you can use sb-disassem:disassemble-code-component instead. 03:53:07 <_3b> slime inspector seems to show more 03:53:11 indylarry [~indylarry@c-71-57-20-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:33 cool!! thank you, pkhuong & _3b!! 03:53:34 systemaddict [~anonymous@adsl-75-18-165-3.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:41 -!- systemaddict [~anonymous@adsl-75-18-165-3.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:53:42 I usually just use the inspector, though. 03:53:48 sb-disassem::disassemble-cdoe-component works! 03:53:49 that way I can look at the constant vector as well. 03:53:55 *_3b* usually just uses DISASSEMBLE :p 03:54:13 -!- indylarry [~indylarry@c-71-57-20-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:54:16 _3b: horses for courses. 03:54:26 I'll try to learn the slime inspector first:D 03:54:47 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.55] has joined #lisp 03:55:02 <_3b> C-c I #'foo 03:55:12 <_3b> then middle click or enter on the code object 03:55:26 wow... slime inspect is so convenient! 03:55:34 great~ 03:55:57 thanks for the keybinding; I ran it M-x slime-inspect just now. 03:55:58 Gee. I usually do C-c M-d on the symbol I want to disassemble. 03:56:30 And if there's no symbol, I get prompted for the function to disassemble. 03:56:37 <_3b> looks like that doesn't show the stuff before ;no-arg-parsing entry point 03:57:48 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:57:53 <_3b> C-c I on #'foo would work too, if you happen to have it typed out already 03:58:30 yes. it turns out C-c M-d kinda equals to #'disassemble 03:58:39 *rtoym* should use the inspector more often, but doesn't. Too much motor memory. 03:58:46 while C-c I #'disassemble-code-component 03:59:12 *_3b* tends to use C-c I for evaluating forms with large output instead of finding a repl lately 04:00:03 where can I find with-open-file source? 04:00:12 <_3b> (or C-u C-x C-e, but that gets messy quickly for output that isn't interesting to keep around) 04:00:31 <_3b> tr3x: M-. on with-open-file ? 04:00:33 struggled with SBCL for two days about how "struct simple_fun" is placed in memory. and finally proved documents I've read. 04:00:50 _3b not using emacs 04:01:05 <_3b> then 'in the source for your implementation'? 04:01:07 then use find | xargs grep.. 04:01:31 <_3b> src/code/macros for sbcl, not that it is very interesting 04:01:42 say, find ./source-directory-of-impl -type f |xargs grep -i "with-open-file" 04:01:52 <_3b> basically expands to (with-open-stream (... (open ...)) ,@body) 04:02:09 _3b yeah I know it's something like that. was just wondering in how many lines it was done 04:02:28 <_3b> 4, including the arglist wrapped onto 2nd line 04:02:51 <_3b> with-open-stream is 14 or so 04:03:30 c|mell [~cmell@12.182.241.5] has joined #lisp 04:03:35 and with-open-stream is a macro too. 04:04:05 <_3b> yeah, i'd expect most with-foo to be macros 04:04:28 <_3b> (as opposed to call-with-foo, which would be functions, frequently implementing the body of a with-foo macro) 04:04:41 nice hints:) 04:08:09 tr3x: Try (describe 'with-open-file). At least in cmucl that prints out a path to the source. Dunno if sbcl still has that. 04:09:03 rtoym: it's an LPN. 04:12:39 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:52 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:15:44 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:15:44 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:47 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:30 beach: I think nyef has gone to bed. what do you think of his writeup? does it jibe with what you were thinking about? 04:17:36 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 04:17:55 slyrus: Yes, it is close to my thinking. 04:17:55 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.61] has joined #lisp 04:18:32 rtoym thanks. I am currently using clisp. it doesn't provide full path. but I managed to find the source anyway 04:19:06 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:06 slyrus: There are some gaps in my understanding, and we need to find a solution to all the questions. 04:19:19 fair enough 04:21:13 slyrus: Did you read it? 04:21:22 yes 04:21:39 slyrus: What do you think? 04:22:17 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 04:23:54 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:46 beach: I'm still not clear on the difference between a sheet and a pane, tbh 04:26:02 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has joined #lisp 04:26:04 slyrus: That is one of my questions for nyef. 04:26:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has quit [Changing host] 04:26:10 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:26:18 slyrus: Well, the difference is clear. A sheet is more general. 04:26:57 slyrus: But what he wrote suggests that a pane is a standard-sheet-input-mixin but I can't see that anywhere. 04:27:34 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-138-77-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:27:48 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-77-81.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:28:15 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.161.72.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:28:45 -!- p_l|home [~pl@213.5.11.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:52 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:29:10 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@80.179.193.102.static.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:35:41 beach: in the spec? or in mcclim? in mcclim clim-sheet-input-mixin is a superclass of pane and standard-sheet-input-mixin is a superclass of that 04:36:37 I was referring to the spec. 04:36:48 clim-sheet-input-mixin doesn't exist in the spec. 04:37:21 -!- rafusy [rav@torvalds.rootnode.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39:41 Well, then I guess his comment about interpretation 2 makes sense 04:40:24 Definitely. 04:41:45 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:42:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:46:45 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:49:21 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:50:00 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:50:27 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 04:51:08 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.55] has joined #lisp 05:02:59 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-41-84.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:18 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:04:45 -!- Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-33-41-84.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:05:03 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 05:05:22 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.55] has joined #lisp 05:09:29 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:16:31 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:17:21 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:03 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 05:27:37 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:21 Hunden [~Hunden@e180102059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:30:33 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:30:53 -!- rbancroft [~rumble@S0106000024ccf2b4.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:35:59 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:37:41 -!- sadeness [~vik@pdpc/supporter/active/sadeness] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:39:16 chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:34 -!- schell [~schellsci@c-76-103-111-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:41:37 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:45:29 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:04 schell [~schellsci@c-76-103-111-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:16 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #lisp 05:53:12 no--name [~no-name@65.248.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:55:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:57:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:05:40 sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:58 how can I display a command line progress bar like that of wget using lisp? 06:05:58 sakekasi, memo from pjb: you can load files from the shell easily with all the implementations. 06:09:31 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:14 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:10:44 -!- ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:13:28 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:14 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:17:47 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-86.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:57 sakekasi: Why do you think the method would be Lisp specific? 06:18:14 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:01 beach, C++ has its own implementation, so I was wondering if lisp had one. 06:19:08 zhujun [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:19:26 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:21:49 -!- zhujun [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:26 zhujun [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:23:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:24:56 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:31 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:25:33 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:27:19 -!- sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:34 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:28:10 -!- zhujun [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:14 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:15 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 06:28:28 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 06:30:07 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:30:29 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kzymiwprbwcmpfvi] has joined #lisp 06:32:54 zeugma [~user@c-75-72-166-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:19 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:37:41 -!- zeugma [~user@c-75-72-166-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:37:47 borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:09 oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-163-111.barak.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:38:26 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:04 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:39:17 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:40:40 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:40:54 omgz0r [~omgz0r@S010600119502eca3.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:21 hello lisp 06:43:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:44:16 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:44:40 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 06:45:38 -!- Guest67819 [~longshot@180.184.8.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:28 -!- jjong [~user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:57 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:52 TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 06:48:16 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:49:23 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:26 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:50:35 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 06:52:08 -!- borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:53:47 hello omgz0r 06:54:15 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:36 how's it going? 06:54:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:53 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has left #lisp 06:54:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:55:28 omgz0r: Fine. I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 06:55:35 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:46 completely. I pretty much just stumbled into here. 06:56:09 I was pretty surprised to see such a large channel. 06:56:16 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:56:28 It is very active, yes. 06:57:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:18 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:57:19 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:42 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:17 so what's your 'background' with lisp? I'm still getting used to it - using it in an AI course. 06:58:22 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:58:33 It definitely takes me a little while to get into the mindset. 07:00:33 Background? Mine? 07:00:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:48 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:00 I learned Lisp a long time ago, but have been seriously into Common Lisp for the past 10 years or so. 07:01:21 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 07:02:37 omgz0r: So you are a student? 07:02:42 indeed 07:03:04 Where is that? 07:03:10 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:13 4th year computer science in Manitoba 07:03:31 rather, at Manitoba. Which really is nowhere. 07:03:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:56 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 07:06:17 Well, every serious CS graduate should know Common Lisp. 07:06:35 it's a pretty enjoyable language 07:06:47 but it certainly takes some getting used to 07:06:58 which could be said about any language, I suppose. 07:11:34 To me, Common Lisp is a language that the creators pushed as far as they could without sacrificing performance. Most languages don't go far enough, and some go too far. 07:15:00 a question about elephant (the persistence thing): how does elephant know whether to serialize an object or just an oid? 07:15:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:18:08 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:27 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:21:13 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:21:36 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:24:47 rbancroft [~rumble@S0106000024ccf2b4.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:15 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:25:50 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:31 ? 07:29:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:08 pen: ?? 07:32:17 -!- binarin [~binarin@85.93.153.62] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 07:32:39 oh sorry, was testing something. I have a question. If lisp told me something about syntax error, how do I debug this? without going through counting all the parenthesis or something. 07:33:12 <_3b> well, first step would be a proper editor that deals with parens for you 07:33:33 <_3b> (and automatically indents properly so you can see the structure without counting) 07:33:52 I use vim but it doesn't indent properly when writing it because the open parathesis I guess 07:33:58 and the syntax highlighting is not right 07:34:14 <_3b> then figure out how to connect the editor to the lisp, so the editor can deal with parsing error messages, and just show you the broken code 07:34:16 now I just don't know where it is wrong because there are so many parathesis!! 07:34:41 *_3b* uses emacs+paredit and slime respectively for those tasks 07:35:05 pen: use slimv for vim - that includes a paredit. 07:35:20 and indentation should work just out of the box, unless you've some configuration wrong 07:35:48 minion: slimv 07:35:49 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``slimv''. 07:35:52 I have my config auto indent, does that affect how it behave in lisp? 07:36:15 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2551 07:36:33 smartindent is what I'm using, AFAIR 07:36:51 Well, it "Just Works" because of the parenthesis ... at least it should 07:39:28 no, it's autoindent for me too 07:39:51 hm 07:40:30 i'm just trying to debug this syntax error thingy still can't figure out why 07:40:32 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 07:40:33 something with setq 07:40:41 paste it? 07:40:55 minion: lisppaste 07:40:56 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 07:41:13 <_3b> it should provide enough information to find it, but for historical reasons lisps tend to not give you line numbers directly :/ 07:41:19 pencilcheck pasted "fc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120866 07:41:41 maybe quote your () 07:41:43 this is the problematic function 07:41:47 <_3b> (and possibly specification reasons, not sure if the 'specified in terms of structure rather than text' affects it) 07:41:49 but i really have no idea ;) 07:42:02 lol _3b 07:42:09 <_3b> annotate that paste with the error too 07:42:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:42 pencilcheck pasted "error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120867 07:42:49 here 07:43:13 <_3b> and as a side comment, you should name special vars with ** around them (i assume BINDINGS etc are global specials rather than closed over vars, or non-existant vars) 07:43:14 so I need to quote () basically? 07:43:24 oh 07:43:29 yeah, whatever the second arg in setq is 07:43:30 i'm new to lisp so 07:43:34 still learning 07:43:38 at least with what i'm doing 07:43:56 <_3b> your loop syntax is bad in outer loop 07:44:11 bad? isn't that the one for until? 07:44:17 <_3b> i'd suggest putting DO at the beginning of a line instead of at the end of lines in LOOP 07:44:28 oops I forgot the do 07:44:36 <_3b> in that case it might be more obvious, since you would be used to seeing it there 07:44:46 yea, I see 07:44:56 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45:12 <_3b> (and it is also less likely you will break the LOOP by adding lines, etc, when you separate the clauses better) 07:45:16 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-236-205.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:45:34 <_3b> do you have some FOR macro defined? if not, the other LOOPs are broken too 07:45:37 <_3b> too many parens 07:45:46 only another one 07:45:50 but I just fixed it 07:45:53 <_3b> (and too many DOs) 07:46:10 isn't that how it is suppose to be? part of the syntax? 07:46:24 <_3b> use WHEN or UNLESS instead of IF when there is only one branch 07:46:40 oh 07:47:00 <_3b> you have (loop for ... do (for ...)) where you probably meany (loop for ... for ... do ...) 07:47:18 hmm 07:47:24 ok I did't know you can do that 07:47:26 <_3b> or else (loop for ... do (loop for ... do ...)) 07:47:41 <_3b> depends on whether you want it to iterate 2 things at the same time, or nested loops 07:48:03 here's a quick question: is there a way to avoid ecl doing this to my lists when printing them naively? -> (((#1=(B C) (D E A)) ((D . #2=(E)) #1# (A)) (#2# (A B C D)) ((A . #1#) #2# (D)))) 07:48:11 nested loop 07:48:12 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:48:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:48:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:48:14 <_3b> which reading closer, you want nested loops, so (loop for ... do (loop for ...)) 07:48:20 so I might be wanting for the second form 07:48:55 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 07:48:59 <_3b> omgz0r: possibly set *print-circle* to nil, assuming they aren't actually circular and you don't care about preserving shared structure 07:49:33 btw, is it right for me to have setq all over the place? 07:49:36 you have just made my life ridiculously easier. 07:49:38 or should I use something else instead 07:49:54 <_3b> we usually suggest SETF instead of SETQ 07:50:10 make everything global? 07:50:18 <_3b> haven't looked closely enough to tell if lots of assignments is good or not 07:50:24 <_3b> SETF is just a generalized version of SETQ 07:50:44 ok 07:50:51 <_3b> it works on things like elements of arrays, parts of lists, etc instead of just directly modifying variable bindings 07:50:59 cool 07:51:06 <_3b> lots of globals tends to be a bad sign 07:51:28 <_3b> if you don't store values between runs or use them elsewhere, you should probably use local variables instead 07:51:42 hm 07:52:14 <_3b> if RET needs to be compared with EQUAL, you should probably pass :test 'equal to pushnew 07:52:14 why is *print-circle* default behaviour? 07:52:26 RET? 07:52:31 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:32 which line are you talking about? 07:53:03 <_3b> 25 and 27 07:54:04 <_3b> omgz0r: it should default to NIL, but some printing functions rebind things like that, so you might be printing it the wrong way too 07:54:23 you mean 07:54:45 how do I enable line number in lisppaste? 07:54:59 nvm 07:55:00 I see it 07:55:40 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.192.161] has joined #lisp 07:55:53 what does that :test 'equal do? 07:56:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:56:03 make it so it doesn't push duplicate items? 07:56:08 <_3b> it tells the function to compare things with EQUAL instead of EQL 07:56:29 <_3b> (lots of standard functions that compare things accept a :test argument) 07:56:40 oh 07:57:25 <_3b> PUSHNEW is what tries to avoid pushing duplicate items, but it only thinks things are duplicate if they are EQL unless you tell it otherwise 07:57:38 <_3b> if you don't care about duplicates, use PUSH instead of PUSHNEW 07:57:54 <_3b> (or if EQL is good enough, don't use EQUAL in the IF 07:58:04 <_3b> also, don't use EQ for numbers, use EQL or = 07:58:26 <_3b> and when comparing against 0, you might want ZEROP instead 07:58:35 morning lispers! 07:59:15 oh 07:59:18 <_3b> and to compare against a symbol, you probably want EQL or EQ 07:59:19 I see 07:59:21 gotcha 07:59:50 right now my code would run infinitely because for some reason premise-conjuncts and subst-conjuncts are both nil 08:00:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:12 <_3b> ? 08:00:24 ltriant [~ltriant@124-149-80-142.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:00:32 i'm writing a forward chaining algorithm 08:00:42 <_3b> (loop for var in NIL ...) has 0 iterations if that is what you meant 08:00:45 and I don't know if i'm doing it right with the easiest implementation 08:00:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:48 hmm 08:02:03 xc344 [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:02:04 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:16 <_3b> (loop until (equal new ()) ...) -> (loop while new ...) 08:02:57 MoALTz [~no@92.9.74.109] has joined #lisp 08:03:01 oh 08:03:27 splittist [~splittist@245-160.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:03:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:41 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-164-52.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:04:16 <_3b> are you trying to create local variables with SETQ? 08:04:18 yea, that would do too 08:05:35 btw, how do I debug for lisp? just running the interpreter is painful 08:05:37 I don't know how to debug 08:06:02 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:09 <_3b> again, the best way is to use an editor that can interact directly with the running lisp, SLIME has a nice debugger 08:06:16 pen: Use Emacs and SLIME. 08:06:25 *_3b* doesn't know the state of VIM lisp debuggers 08:07:19 :\ 08:07:50 <_3b> and note that you probably mean REPL ("Read Eval Print Loop") rather than interpreter, since many lisps compile everything as you evaluate it, even if you are using it interactively 08:08:22 <_3b> (and many others interpret things even when run in batch mode) 08:09:13 hm 08:09:27 <_3b> you could also try using one of the lisps with an IDE, that might have a nicer debugger than the REPL would 08:09:39 alright, I will take a look at those debugger later 08:09:40 <_3b> (most of the options for that are commercial though, unless you happen to be on mac) 08:09:45 -!- xc344 [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has quit [] 08:09:49 lol 08:09:51 i'm on a mac yes 08:09:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:04 <_3b> commercial lisps tend to have evaluation versions that might be good enough for student use though 08:10:22 using clisp from macports 08:10:26 <_3b> in that case you might try CCL's IDE (clozure common lisp) 08:10:27 xc344 [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:10:32 oh 08:10:33 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f4d] has joined #lisp 08:10:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f4d] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:33 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 08:10:42 pen: a vim plugin that connects to swank is in work. will be a bit of time until it's finished, though 08:11:14 alright, i'm crossing my fingers 08:11:18 btw 08:11:22 another lisp question 08:11:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:30 how do I do continue in a loop? 08:11:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:12:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:13 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:12:16 <_3b> you mean 'continue' as in C, and LOOP specifically (as opposed to other forms of loops like DOLIST or whatever)? 08:12:18 pen: there's also Lispworks Personal Edition for mac at http://www.lispworks.com/downloads 08:12:27 yes 08:12:39 thanks chr` I will take a look into it 08:12:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:52 _3b: is it possible? 08:12:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:13:14 <_3b> there isn't an exact 'continue', and most of the alternatives are a bit ugly 08:13:17 pen: I'd suggest that you take a look at iterate. 08:13:40 it's easier to read (because of more parenthesis ;-), and it can do things like continue. 08:13:45 <_3b> one is to use WHEN loop clause to skip evaluating the rest of the loop 08:13:49 -!- xc344 [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has quit [Client Quit] 08:14:06 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@143.93.53.41] has joined #lisp 08:14:12 the parenthesis would have avoided your do () problem, for example. 08:14:14 flip214: does it come with allegro or clisp? 08:14:25 minion: iterate 08:14:25 iterate: iterate is a lispy and extensible replacement for the :(CLHS "LOOP") macro. http://www.cliki.net/iterate 08:14:34 hm 08:14:38 <_3b> iterate would be another option, if you external libraries aren't a problem 08:14:51 pen: use quicklisp, if possible 08:14:58 (to install iterate, that is) 08:15:00 might not be able to extend too much, but I will look into that 08:15:03 minion: quicklisp 08:15:04 quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 08:15:06 <_3b> it should work on any CL implementation 08:15:16 <_3b> (iterate that is, but quicklisp should also) 08:17:10 _3b: my clisp doesn't support iterate natively 08:17:20 doesn't work 08:17:22 <_3b> right, it is an external library you need to load 08:17:28 :( 08:17:40 <_3b> i meant you should be able to load it on any CL 08:18:51 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 08:19:59 pen: installing and using external libraries is a breeze with quicklisp. But if you have course-related constraints then you can do what want with LOOP, with a bit of fiddling. But it may be there's a lispier way of arranging the iteration. 08:20:05 mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:20:58 yea, I am using while loop hack now 08:21:10 thanks for your help guys 08:28:59 is there a macro for flattening a list? 08:29:05 slash_ [~unknown@pD955C022.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:27 <_3b> why would it be a macro? (and no, not built in) 08:29:40 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:29:40 <_3b> usually a better solution is to just build the list right in the first place 08:30:07 in alexandria there's a flatten function 08:30:12 minion: alexandria 08:30:13 alexandria: Alexandria is a collection of portable public domain utilities. http://www.cliki.net/alexandria 08:30:27 oh 08:30:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:31:22 another question lol. in clisp evaluator how do I reset all the variable state? 08:31:29 because right now it is quite messy 08:31:56 and I don't want to restart the evaluator and load all files again 08:32:07 -!- mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has quit [] 08:32:34 mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:33:55 -!- mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has quit [Client Quit] 08:34:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.192.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:34:46 mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:34:46 -!- mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:14 mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:35:21 pen: So you want to reset the state, but not the alterations of state that came from loading files? 08:35:26 yes 08:35:29 like refresh 08:35:35 reload the files instantly 08:35:43 and also the states 08:36:03 -!- mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:30 mnau [~xc344@116.253.154.207] has joined #lisp 08:36:37 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.154.144] has joined #lisp 08:36:42 pen: I don't really understand what you're saying, but perhaps it's time to look at ASDF. 08:39:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:41:53 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.79.163] has joined #lisp 08:42:23 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:43:46 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.74.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:43:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-255.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:44:02 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:18 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:50:53 nome` [~user@c-98-249-30-223.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:40 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:51:59 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:07 -!- schell [~schellsci@c-76-103-111-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:26 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:52:30 -!- Guest49654 [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:34 cipher [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:36 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:52:41 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:43 -!- mdavadriansmith1 [~mdavadria@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:52:47 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:47 -!- nome [~user@c-98-249-30-223.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:52:54 -!- no--name [~no-name@65.248.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:53:25 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-advwmqpnrvaslnpr] has joined #lisp 08:53:31 mdavadriansmith [~mdavadria@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:45 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:54 levi` [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:20 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:56:08 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:56:23 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - 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http://colloquy.mobi] 10:04:44 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 10:07:39 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.11.137] has quit [Quit: possible harddrive problem] 10:07:46 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 10:08:14 memechaser [~memechase@pya013000043.lancs.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:10:43 benny [~benny@i577A2B24.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:11:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:15:11 -!- memechaser [~memechase@pya013000043.lancs.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:52 madsenz` [~user@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:04 what impl would you recommend for windows xp? 10:16:23 ccl 10:16:53 <_3b> ccl, commercial implementations, sbcl thread fork, or for special purposes, clisp or ecl 10:17:10 madsenz`: XP? Why? 10:17:24 madsenz`: For god's sake, move to any modern OS. 10:17:48 _3b: what special meanings does clisp or ecl imply? 10:17:49 <_3b> cheaper to use an existing XP install than get win7 if you need to run win apps :/ 10:17:56 XP was released ten years ago and has more security problems than an unpatched copy of sendmail from 1989. 10:18:17 quotemstr: well, sometimes I have to run lisp on the windows, though I have a linux box. 10:18:23 madsenz`: https://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyId=9040a4be-c3cf-44a5-9052-a70314452305&displaylang=en 10:18:26 madsenz`: Wine. 10:18:35 <_3b> small binaries mostly 10:18:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:19:19 _3b: thanks! life is easy with your replies:D 10:19:21 madsenz`: The problem is not Windows but an OS more than ten years old. It can't even write on UDF. 10:19:26 Also, you don't want SBCL if you want anything having to do with small binaries. The system dumps are huge. 10:19:28 Win7 can. 10:19:29 madsenz`: the sbcl thread fork is nice; clisp can be nice too. I didn't ccl much on XP, but it works very nicely on 7. 10:19:44 quotemstr: thanks for the link! 10:19:48 the thread-fork only for win, right? 10:20:08 leo2007: yeah 10:20:14 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:17 leo2007: the purpose of thread-fork is to fix threads on Windows. 10:20:18 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:21 mainly on WinXP I do some experiments 10:20:40 "Windows sucks because of issues A, B, and C!" "Well, you're using XP. We fixed all those problems years and years ago." "But XP!" 10:20:41 I'll try SBCL thread fork, since I use it on my linux. 10:20:48 haha 10:20:49 <_3b> yeah, if you aren't using it for wide deployment, i'd probably move sbcl/thread fork above commercial impls 10:21:19 splittist and naryl: i guess SBCL on OSX is falling behind. 10:21:23 _3b: yes, just playing for some simple services for web applications. 10:21:49 well, last night I tried to attach a SBCL process to gdb on OSX 10.6.6, and failed. 10:21:51 Is Apple still developing OSX? 10:22:26 splittist: Most of their effort seems to be on reinvented the GPLv3d wheel. 10:22:27 maybe Apple is just increasing the number, the version number. 10:23:14 <_3b> i like how those win server images say '... do not have anti-virus installed, they should not be connected to any network until it has anti-virus installed." 10:23:42 anti-virus is virus, here in China. 10:24:09 _3b: Gotta have your magic talisman. 10:24:19 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:24 madsenz`: where in China? 10:24:48 well, here, China. 10:25:01 360 vs. Rising vs. KingSoft... 10:26:16 I guess this is the place for the SBCL thread fork? https://sites.google.com/site/dmitryvksite/sbcl-distr/sbcl-1.0.45-threads.msi. 10:26:59 Is the SBL thread fork an actual fork or just a dev branch? 10:27:23 <_3b> somewhere in between from what i understand 10:27:41 and, is it backpatched from the development trunk? 10:28:05 The world doesn't need another XEmasc. 10:28:09 XEmacs, dammit. 10:30:02 it's gone now, almost. 10:30:16 <_3b> see also http://www.siftsoft.com/inprogress/forknews.html 10:30:44 _3b: thank you. reading it. 10:31:47 <_3b> and maybe sbcl-devel mailing list if you want more info 10:32:34 I guess I need to harness Emacs as the subscriber to mailing list. 10:34:20 _3b: thank you! 10:34:25 madsenz`: dmitryvk says this fork is the active one: http://www.siftsoft.com/inprogress/forknews.html 10:34:53 naryl: got it:) thank you!! 10:34:55 And it won't get merged in the next release but should be soon. 10:35:10 into the main trunk? 10:35:19 yes 10:35:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 10:35:42 good news. 10:36:02 check out of the office now. 10:36:03 bye. 10:36:22 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-164-52.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:30 and, running SBCL thread fork now already. 10:36:35 -!- madsenz` [~user@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.4 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:36:42 -!- X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:04 _mathrick [~mathrick@dynamic-78-8-139-191.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 10:40:54 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:41:14 good morning 10:41:31 morning mvilleneuve! What's new, exciting and under NDA? (: 10:41:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@dynamic-87-105-160-199.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:42:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:44:10 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2315D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:41 splittist: heh :) 10:44:56 almost got me :) 10:46:49 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 10:47:19 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49:04 mvilleneuve: Whose NDA are you under? 10:52:17 quotemstr: a couple of customers or partners 10:52:45 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:53:44 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:57:27 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955C022.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:58:08 myu2 [~myu2@w177040.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:59:36 xxxyyy [~xyxu@180.172.53.36] has joined #lisp 11:02:51 is there any easy way to create temp directories in sbcl ? 11:03:24 I was reading https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/393104 11:05:01 sb-posix:mkdtemp? 11:05:20 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 11:09:57 stassats, ah thanks , forgot that part totally 11:10:27 <_3b> was there some trick to make slime expand macrolets? 11:10:38 I am also looking for few docs/tutorials/blogs to understand how people actually deploy lisp applications ? 11:11:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:01 kushal: what kind of lisp applications? 11:12:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:47 _3b: i would guess that even if it's possible it needs slime-enclosing-context contrib, which isn't working at the moment 11:13:43 Xach, two kinds, one server side webapps (based on hunchentoot mostly), and various command line tools/daemons which are depended on the libraries from your ql ? 11:13:43 <_3b> ok, couldn't remember if i'd heard of it working, or not-quite working, or completely imagined it :) 11:14:02 kushal: the is mod_lisp for web apps and stuff like buildapp for "desktop apps" 11:14:14 even if it doesn't exist, it would be a good thing to create it 11:14:29 *_3b* thinks hunchentoot behind reverse-proxy is more common than mod_lisp 11:14:31 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 11:14:38 Xach, whenever I tried to write anything in lisp , people generally ask how I am planning to deploy them 11:14:48 bozhidar, ok, have to readup on them 11:14:50 mod_lisp is dead 11:14:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:00 kushal: next time someone asks you that, stare into their eyes and then kick them in the shins. 11:15:06 stassats: isn't there mod_lisp2 or something like that 11:15:19 Xach, can not do that always in the office :p 11:15:20 you can always use mod proxy with a hunchentoot in the back 11:15:25 bozhidar: http://xach.livejournal.com/144475.html 11:15:46 bozhidar: it's all passe, hunchentoot doesn't support any kind of mod_lisps anymore 11:16:12 I have some updates to buildapp planned to make it work better with quicklisp. 11:16:33 *stassats* puts a note to try buildapp 11:16:45 i have too many images lying around 11:16:54 Xach: I've read that article :-) 11:17:10 *_3b* uses it, but changes the code more often than i restart it, so tends to end up building a new binary every restart anyway :p 11:17:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:29 Xach: do you have experience serving pages on EC2 using Lisp? 11:18:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:00 i use images for command line utilities which i might change once a couple of years 11:18:04 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:18:19 luis: only a tiny bit 11:18:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:45 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:18:48 actually, the buildapp updates will use a new static metadata file provided by an updated quicklisp 11:18:59 --system-file-manifest foo.txt or similar 11:19:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:23 I've been wondering does anybody do any GUI development in Lisp these days? I reviewed the options like cl-gtk but everything seemed incomplete/abandoned 11:19:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:19:42 bozhidar: CAPI seems popular 11:20:01 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:02 i like commonqt 11:20:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:20:17 bozhidar: i sometimes cl-gtk2 for small toy projects, it is not abandoned 11:20:42 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:47 stassats: what platforms do you use commonqt on? 11:21:07 aerique: there is only one 0.1 version, which seems like an alpha and almost no development after it 11:21:19 Xach: any issues? 11:21:26 aerique: linux 11:21:29 Xach, http://paste.lisp.org/+2L9I 11:21:32 sbcl/ccl 11:21:33 bozhidar: are you talking about cl-gtk or cl-gtk>2 kushal: one of the init files probably told it where to find buildapp 11:22:18 aerique: http://www.cliki.net/cl-gtk2 11:23:07 <_3b> kushal: so add a --eval to push a path to it onto asdf*central-registry* or whatever 11:23:52 ok, I don't understand asdf yet :( 11:23:57 <_3b> (or let it load init files) 11:23:59 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:24:08 Xach: isn't capi proprietary? 11:24:31 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:24:46 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 11:25:01 luis: worked fine 11:25:06 bozhidar: yes 11:25:08 <_8david> it's proprietary but very nice 11:25:21 bozhidar: okey, at least we're talking about the same thing :) last commit is from 2010-11-16: https://github.com/dmitryvk/cl-gtk2 11:25:28 bozhidar: it works well enough 11:25:31 <_8david> aerique: I'm not using CommonQt at all, but it works on Linux, Windows, and most recently also on MacOS 11:25:58 _8david: that is good news. i'll check it out when i'm playing with GUIs again 11:26:25 *stassats* waits for debian unstable to sort out its mess with qt libraries to get commonqt working on this machine again 11:26:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-255.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:10 aerique: I've played with it only a bit, maybe you're right 11:27:41 bozhidar: i can only speak for linux and windows though 11:27:45 pds [~shelta@shpd-92-101-131-175.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:29:15 gui is a big win for dialects like Clojure running on the JVM. I sometimes wish they revised the standard and added thing like networking, gui and regular expressions in it 11:29:25 and parse-double :-) 11:30:22 <_8david> regarding the incomplete/abandoned distinction, I'd say that CommonQt is about 90% done (leaving the other 90% still to be done) 11:31:17 *stassats* is glad that the standard doesn't enforce things like GUI 11:31:40 I have trouble identifying any GUI standards in practice. Looking at widely-deployed apps, where's the standard in MS Word, Skype, iTunes, ? 11:32:54 splittist: the standard is: "does it have blog posts?" "Yes?" "Then it's ok" 11:38:55 splittist: I think that Swing showed the way to do standard GUI regardless of the underlying platform 11:39:06 longfin [~longfin@175.221.146.240] has joined #lisp 11:39:09 sadly it never quite took off 11:40:44 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:40:46 bozhidar: my point is that there is no standard gui. 11:41:41 bozhidar: and if you do the job, folks don't really care (enough) what you look like. See e.g. the million corporate apps that are still VT-100 emulators, or Piano (: 11:41:45 splittist: sure, you're right. But working with bindings in every language for every native GUI lib is not pretty. That's why I like the Swing approach. 11:42:49 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 splittist: it's not really about the look & feel, but the burden on developers. Not having something they can always rely on makes them learn a lot of different stuff 11:43:29 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 11:44:15 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:13 Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:45:27 bozhidar: Fair enough. But what are the big (by which I mean successful in their niche) apps that are x-platform? Extra points if they started that way (: 11:45:35 swing doesn't really solve it, it looks unnatural on every platform 11:45:50 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:46:55 stassats: not when you're using plaf(pluggable look and feels) - it looks quite nice with the gtk+, windows modern and cocoa lafs 11:47:30 *_3b* thinks 'looks native but doesn't act quite native' is even worse 11:48:41 *_3b* also thinks making every CL implementation reimplement some random xplatform gui thing is a waste of time 11:49:16 <_3b> (and if they aren't all going to be reimplementing it, you are back to making it a library, which is exactly where we are now) 11:50:46 So where's a good place to learn about QT? 11:51:11 *stassats* uses"Qt Reference Documentation" 11:51:48 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:53:45 G'morning all. 11:54:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:39 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:57:03 beach: Ping? 11:57:04 -!- longfin [~longfin@175.221.146.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:47 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:57:55 morning nyef. We're all relying on you and beach to solve the GUI Problem (TM) once and for all. No rush, next week is fine. 12:00:30 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:59 *stassats* proposes a one-button interface, with a single button titled "Do Everything" 12:01:01 Hah! 12:01:29 nyef: I'm here! 12:02:38 So, I saw your comments about what I wrote in the log. Do you have any unanswered questions about it? 12:03:13 nyef: A few yeah. 12:03:45 *_3b* wonders why my profile thinks sb-kernel:%member-test spends lots of time in generic-+ 12:04:02 nyef: First, it looks like you think that a pane is a standard-sheet-input-mixin. Where did you find that? 12:05:22 _3b: what's the predicate? 12:05:28 The hints for that are a bit diffuse. 12:06:55 <_3b> pkhuong: a lambda, don't think it does any + either though 12:06:56 And largely based around the capabilities of the various stream panes. 12:07:08 nyef: OK. 12:07:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:49 <|nix|`> morning all :D 12:07:58 It amounts to the input processing having to be done in the application thread. 12:08:23 Second, how much do you think interactive response suffers from traversing thread boundaries? 12:08:59 nyef: Right, so you need a delegate. 12:09:18 Right, it has to be either a delegate or a standard mixin. 12:09:38 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:09:47 And if it is a standard, then it would share the input queue with others. 12:09:56 I'm not sure how badly the response suffers, it rather depends on the OS scheduler granularity and the cost of the hand-over. 12:10:19 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:28 It would be interesting to know because, as you point out, of you don't then a simple bug takes down the entire system. 12:10:37 Plus the cost of synchronization for arbitrary threads doing output... 12:10:39 ... which is even worse if you consider mulitple applications. 12:10:48 Right. 12:11:19 Something I came across last night, actually, is that the whole "silica" layer was built first, and apparently didn't end up being used as originally envisaged. 12:11:49 But beyond the bare statement, I have yet to find anything to corroborate. 12:11:59 OK. 12:12:04 (Well, beyond the event handling being broken-as-specified.) 12:12:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:12:36 nyef: Third, the concept of distributing an event seems underexploited. I wonder how it could be used to avoid one of the problems you mentioned. 12:12:42 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-70-109-182-117.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:54 Actually, AIUI, distributing an event is determining which sheet an event "belongs to", in a fairly straightforward way. 12:14:40 nyef: Right, but that could be changed, for instance so that an event would be distributed directly to an application. 12:15:05 You could see it as a hook for dealing with "lightweight" sheets that use a parent sheet's mirrors. 12:15:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:16:05 <_3b> pkhuong: sorry, got distracted by the clim stuff :) is it worth pasting the test function? 12:16:28 nyef: I am questioning the fact that keyboard events should necessarily go through sheets. 12:16:28 <_3b> nyef, beach: have you looked at how browsers, flash, etc handle event dispatch at all? 12:16:40 _3b: Not me, no. 12:17:14 *_3b* unfortunately doesn't really understand how to use them well enough to provide any insight :/ 12:17:32 beach: Well, in X they have to go through a window, so where's the difference? 12:18:21 In Win32 as well, come to think it. 12:18:23 nyef: Big difference if sheets aren't mirrored for instance. 12:18:46 nyef: Then as far as the display server is concerned, they all go to a single sheet. 12:18:50 That's what distribute-event is for. 12:18:58 _3b: I really don't have time. 12:19:08 <_3b> pkhuong: ok 12:19:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.154.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:19:28 nyef: Right, so why do sheets have an input queue, as opposed to just an application. The application could be the input focus. 12:20:08 Because sheets were created first. 12:20:37 And, at least in theory, some sheets can do their own event handling without having to queue the events. 12:21:02 Sure. 12:21:05 is there a function like remove-if that works on a tree instead of a list? 12:21:39 Saturnation: There is no tree here. 12:21:54 (So, no, there is no remove-if for trees.) 12:22:32 there are trees according to gigamonkey :) 12:22:48 Glert [~Mool@i59F7EF64.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:00 Saturnation: It is well defined to remove an element from a sequence, but what does it mean to remove one from a tree? 12:23:31 beach, Good point, I just want to remove the leaves only, not subtrees 12:23:46 What if the leaves are lists? Or is that not allowed? 12:23:54 Saturnation: For instance, if you remove 2 from (3 . 2) does it give (3) or 3? 12:24:01 nyef JUST THE LEAVES :) 12:24:01 What happens if you remove all of the leaves on a subtree? 12:24:03 so as a noob to lisp and emacs (i use vim), is there a real difference between xemacs and emacs? xemacs seems dead, and also complains about slime-autodoc when i start it. 12:24:17 Glert: use GNU Emacs 12:24:18 beach no dotted lists in my tree... 12:24:22 unless you want to use XEmacs 12:24:23 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:24:28 nyef: You get autumn! 12:24:41 Saturnation: Now we have a different problem because your definition of tree is not the usual one. 12:24:43 drdo: Forever Autumn? 12:24:45 what would be the reasons i want to? because i googled the differences and it seems xemacs has more features 12:24:46 and I don't think you can consider (3 . 2) to be a tree structure?!? 12:24:48 but that page was old 12:25:02 Saturnation: Sure you can! Doesn't even take much to do so, either. 12:25:10 XEmacs is behind Emacs by 5-10 years. 12:25:15 Glert: if you don't know what are the reasons, then that means that you don't want to use it 12:25:46 Saturnation: Look in the CLHS glossary. 12:25:48 OK, I give up, writing my own function for my *specific* instance of some undefined data structure :P 12:26:05 ok. are the reasons political or technical? because i don't care about any of the policy decisions at all. 12:26:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:26:18 tech 12:26:22 ok then. thanks. 12:26:23 <_3b> you could maybe build it out of subst-if 12:26:24 Slime works best on GNU Emacs 12:26:25 Saturnation: Try writing your tree functions that work on trees represented with lists, you'll see the problem 12:26:30 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:26:53 *stassats* remembers writing some kinky code with subst-if 12:27:02 <_3b> not sure it would be much simplet than building it directly though 12:27:05 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.84.227] has joined #lisp 12:27:29 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 12:27:30 _3b I think that maybe actually what I'm looking for, thanks 12:27:50 or not :( 12:27:57 Who do i talk to get PURI to export something to urlencode? 12:28:11 beach: So, where were we? 12:28:53 to the author? 12:29:00 nyef: It would be nice to sort out what an "application" is (wrt command loop, event handling etc). I suspect it is not the same as an application frame. 12:29:28 stassats: The problem is finding who that is 12:29:48 I suspect it is an application-frame plus some thread of execution calling run-frame-top-level. 12:29:50 Kevin Rosenberg? 12:30:23 nyef: What if an "application" has several threads? 12:30:30 it's stated directly in README 12:30:48 stassats: ok, i saw it now, was looking at the webpage 12:30:48 That's fine, so long as only one of them is trying to run the toplevel. 12:30:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:04 ... I think. 12:31:36 nyef: OK, so then we might have something else, (called "super application"?) which is a collection of applications possibly sharing data. 12:31:54 Something like that, maybe. 12:32:19 Actually, what I'm semi-worried about is embedding one application-frame inside another, as with windows OLE. 12:32:40 There have to be some communication issues around that. 12:33:50 nyef: And if so, does such a super application need an explicit standardized representation? 12:33:51 with subst-if, i only know how to remove only an item only _once- 12:33:53 _ 12:34:30 I don't believe it would. You'd need to handle synchronized access to your data, but that would always be the case. 12:34:50 Beyond that, if they have separate toplevel windows, are they not separate application-frames? 12:34:58 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:35:02 Do they not have their own top-level threads? 12:35:19 and only if it's not at the end of a list 12:35:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:35:34 not very useful, i guess 12:36:24 <_3b> hmm, i guess you would need to be able to control the substituted value from the predicate to use subst-if 12:36:57 <_3b> (unless NIL or something can be left to indicate an empty leaf) 12:36:59 nyef: No, you can have several top-level windows in a single application frame. 12:37:03 _3b: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117239#1 12:37:07 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 12:37:09 nyef: Which is why I don't like that word "frame" in there. 12:37:23 Grafted at the same time? 12:37:41 nyef: Yes, I use that all the time. Create a window from the listener. 12:37:43 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:37:52 Separate frame, surely? 12:38:02 nyef: Don't think so no. 12:38:28 What does it mean for a to be a 'top level' ? 12:39:16 nyef: See open-window-stream 12:39:44 Hrm, right... 12:39:46 splittist: Right, and I think there is a confusion between conceptual things and graphical things. 12:40:04 Actually, o-w-s is slightly broken as specified. 12:40:46 nyef: So it has to be ironed out what those different animals are and how they relate to application *frames* and to command loops. 12:40:47 *_3b* 's last attempt at event handling collapsed under confusion between class hierachies and window hierachies 12:41:17 stassats pasted "delete-from-tree" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120872 12:41:27 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BF85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:47 solved the problem with deleting the last item, but it still can't remove more than once 12:42:19 <_3b> stassats: isn't it more a problem of breaking things when it does substitute more than once? 12:42:40 Perhaps someone in SF could pop down to Wowd and talk to Bill York... 12:43:15 Why does o-w-s take either an event-queue or an input-buffer for the :input-buffer argument? 12:43:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-163-111.barak.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:43:49 _3b: depends how you look at it 12:44:14 nyef: No idea. 12:44:50 zarubin [~zarubin@94.27.78.183] has joined #lisp 12:44:53 -!- zarubin [~zarubin@94.27.78.183] has left #lisp 12:45:32 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 12:45:51 Actually, I find the idea of streams sharing an input buffer to be somewhat disturbing. 12:47:22 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has joined #lisp 12:47:23 Indeed! 12:47:30 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has quit [Changing host] 12:47:30 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:53:09 nyef: So how about defining something called an "application" which has a command loop, but that is not related to a particular constellation of windows? 12:53:43 the direct recursive solution would be shorter, but it's not as crazy 12:55:16 stassats annotated #120872 "more sanity" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120872#1 12:55:56 eh, i forgot about NIL 12:56:04 that's left to the reader 12:56:28 <_3b> does that handle tree that doesn't look like a proper list? 12:57:21 no 13:01:44 it'd be easier if LOOP's append behaved like APPEND, i.e. (append '(list) 2) => (list . 2) 13:02:12 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:03:25 -!- mateo [~mateo@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:06:22 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:40 -!- _akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10:21 TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@180.184.8.3] has joined #lisp 13:10:44 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 13:14:20 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:20 -!- TheRealLongshot_ is now known as TheRealLongshot 13:15:55 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:15:55 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:15:59 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:37 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:19:41 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:21:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: lunch?] 13:23:04 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:27:57 beach: You almost have to have a separate thread for the stream created via open-window-stream, don't you? 13:29:05 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:31:25 urandom__ [~user@p548A698E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:38 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:28 Anyone have some code around which gropes around data files parsing time stamps that I could steal, please? 13:36:26 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:17 jtza8 [~AndChat@41.18.249.112] has joined #lisp 13:41:02 cymew: no. But perhaps some combination of cl-ppcre and http://cybertiggyr.com/pdl/ might work. 13:41:56 what sort of time stamp are we talking about here? 13:42:06 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:50 pkhuong: Like 12:32:00 which I don't trust myself to write regexps for 13:44:03 Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has joined #lisp 13:44:27 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.252] has joined #lisp 13:44:34 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:02 splittist: Thanks I will take a peek and see if I can learn something from that. 13:46:47 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:48:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.252] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:48:21 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:34 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:12 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:51:30 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:51:34 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-36-143-155.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:51:43 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 ehu` [~ehuels@109.34.45.250] has joined #lisp 13:54:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:55:26 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:38 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kzymiwprbwcmpfvi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:56:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.84.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:46 milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:41 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-190-140-153.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:00 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:24 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:41 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:05:19 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:06:35 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 14:09:04 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.49] has joined #lisp 14:10:50 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:11:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:32 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:32 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:14:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:17:41 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.34.45.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:46 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #lisp 14:18:07 ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.14.103] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@41.18.249.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:26:05 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 14:26:07 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-70-109-182-117.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:27:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:34 madsenz [~user@n122z215l236.bb122100.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:42 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:51 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-veykwfjbzlozlsrv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:02 brown [~user@nat/google/x-qmvoldbjmwnxzshp] has joined #lisp 14:30:08 -!- brown is now known as reb 14:31:28 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-qmvoldbjmwnxzshp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:11 nyef: I don't see why, but I am sure you know better than I do. 14:35:36 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:35:47 borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:57 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:27 _akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.49] has joined #lisp 14:46:35 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:47:01 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:12 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@180.172.53.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:23 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:47:26 xxxyyy [~xyxu@180.172.53.36] has joined #lisp 14:50:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:52:11 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:53:41 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:47 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:55 morning 14:54:35 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.49] has joined #lisp 14:59:59 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 15:00:10 Hello slyrus. 15:02:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:02:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:28 Okay, another question: If you have an application-frame without any stream panes, you have to customize the event-loop (the default bindings for *standard-input* and *standard-output* are at that point useless, to the point of being defined in terms of each other). The command parser is similarly useless. Yet, you still have a frame that may be adopted by a frame-manager. How do you run the toplevel event loop? 15:03:02 MoALTz [~no@92.18.3.17] has joined #lisp 15:04:37 brown [~user@nat/google/x-rduxxptirdcudnvf] has joined #lisp 15:04:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:05:03 -!- brown is now known as Guest15211 15:05:13 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-advwmqpnrvaslnpr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:32 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:06:30 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:07:45 Do you really mean "event loop"? If so, I don't see a problem. 15:08:04 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:08:05 X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:08:32 -!- X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:43 X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:09:24 Right, the frame has an event queue, which means it's an event client, which means you can call the various event input functions on it. 15:09:24 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:12:02 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:12:19 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-172-123.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:12:56 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has joined #lisp 15:12:59 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-32-119.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:12:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-32-119.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:13:40 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 *beach* will be back soon 15:14:33 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-50-22.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 15:20:49 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 15:20:50 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:19 ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has joined #lisp 15:21:34 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:40 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23:55 Boriskr [~Boriskr@95.104.243.255] has joined #lisp 15:25:31 -!- cymew [~davour@n147-p143.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:06 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 Bronsa [~brace@host102-184-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:29:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:31:53 TheRealLongshot_ [~longshot@207.204.232.138] has joined #lisp 15:34:14 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:34:29 *splittist* stops browsing the CLIM 2.0 spec and waits for SlimClim... 15:34:43 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 15:34:44 -!- TheRealLongshot [~longshot@180.184.8.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:44 -!- TheRealLongshot_ is now known as TheRealLongshot 15:36:14 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@180.172.53.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:51 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:38:09 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host102-184-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:38:20 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has joined #lisp 15:38:27 Bronsa [~brace@host102-184-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:38:43 "Snap in to a SlimClim"? 15:39:33 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:41:16 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:43:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756893.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:14 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:44 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:57 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-50-22.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:45:29 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:46:48 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-fgpkmxplczcjvemg] has joined #lisp 15:48:57 *slyrus* dislikes the "application" and "top-level" notions 15:50:26 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-50-22.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:59 slyrus: see what you did? ("beach quit (Remote host closed the connection)"). I don't disagree, but what is better? 15:52:47 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:21 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@143.93.53.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:41 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:58 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Quit: be back later] 16:00:34 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 16:01:21 danieljones [~danieljon@qld13-adsl-181.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-50-22.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 haha 16:05:02 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:05:02 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:05:09 pvaneynd [~pvaneynd@109.236.139.227] has joined #lisp 16:05:28 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.148.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:07:20 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:08:16 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:45 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-himoififgxgmvdhf] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:12:31 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:49 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:16:54 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3273E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:32 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.3.17] has joined #lisp 16:18:22 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B32646E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:19:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:17 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 16:20:14 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.14.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:32 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.3.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:27 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.252] has joined #lisp 16:24:47 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-himoififgxgmvdhf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:27:28 -!- ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:33 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:52 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-fgpkmxplczcjvemg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:16 Oooh. Henry Baker is doing some work with maxima, possibly teaching maxima to do propagation of type/range across function calls. 16:31:55 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:33:21 rtoym: what ? hbaker's back ? 16:35:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:48 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:45:15 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:45:19 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:52 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 16:47:48 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:49:29 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:50:09 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:50:13 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-239-151.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:51:28 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:54:00 -!- rme [rme@clozure-B7DF0875.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout]