00:01:29 drdo: swig works quite well 00:01:30 is windows (x86) the same as 32-bit or is it 64? 00:01:59 for Ltk it won't matter, since it communicates over a pipe (iirc) 00:02:28 p_l|backup: i need activetcl cause i dont have VC 00:02:45 any c or c++ program at all 00:03:12 -!- chrisvj [ad11762b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.17.118.43] has left #lisp 00:05:44 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:46 alama [~alama@a79-169-25-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:07:41 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:41 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.75.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:09:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:09:11 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:10:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:04 chrisvj [ad11762b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.17.118.43] has joined #lisp 00:11:26 ok, i got ltc and tcl installed, how do i make sure ltk finds tcl? 00:13:58 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:02 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:17:15 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.142] has joined #lisp 00:20:09 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:44 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:22:05 Is there really no doc on installing LTK in Windows? 00:24:21 You talk like that is surprising :P 00:24:44 chrisvj: http://www.peter-herth.de/ltk/ltkdoc/node9.html 00:24:58 Special variable. *wish-pathname* The path to the executable to wish. 00:25:03 Who use windows? 00:25:13 pjb: chrisvj does :) 00:26:07 I mean, I forked 400 euro to get Windows 7 Ultimate and Microsoft Flight Simulator, and all I can say is that I spent two days installing it, and it's lame. Compared to it installing Ubuntu and FlightGear was a snap, fast, and more satisfying. 00:26:34 chrisvj: So you either wrap WITH-TK in (LET ((*wish-pathname* "C:\tcl\wish.exe"))... (replace with actual path) 00:26:50 or (setf *wish-pathname* ...) it 00:27:20 naryl: ty 00:27:42 pjb: Why would you spend such money? :( 00:27:55 pjb: meh. I don't mind windows, but it requires care (because the defaults are set to keep internal crapware of various corporations). Flight Simulator... well, it has good and bad sides. I like X-Plane a little bit more :D 00:27:57 but im still stuck :/ 00:28:09 (and it runs on Windows, Mac and Linux) 00:28:17 pjb: Installing X-Plane would be even more satisfying. 00:28:33 Indeed, it's on my buy list. I already have it on iPad. 00:28:33 can I manipulate symbol like a string, such as fetching the first character, etc 00:28:35 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:54 pjb: Also it costs way less than Windows+MSFS :) 00:29:03 I wanted to run FreeFalcon5, but it doesn't work on Windows 7 (not even the WinXP box in W7). I'll have to install a WinXP. 00:29:17 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 00:29:22 naryl: how do i change or create the special variables? 00:29:23 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:28 grr: (string clhs setf 00:29:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_setf.htm 00:29:43 Actually, given the state of flight simulator software, It's probably W7 will be useless. They all seem to be old. 00:30:00 I'd like to write one in lisp, I can't bear fgfs nasal script... 00:30:18 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.60] has joined #lisp 00:30:21 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-039.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 00:31:20 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:22 naryl thanks, didn't think it would be so simple 00:31:27 pjb: And there is no jet plane suitable for instrument flight. Basically fgfs's state is close to most Lisp libraries. ;) 00:31:29 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:23 On the other hand, it's mostly promising. It surely deserve more work. 00:32:24 chrisvj: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_setf.htm <- sets the value of any variable. 00:33:18 An alternative would be to port the sources of Falcon4 to Linux and have people of FF5 adopt it for a multiplateform FF5, but I'm not sure about the legal implications. After all, the sources of Falcon4 were just "leaked". 00:33:33 mmk, should i use lisp in a box or wish that came with tcl? 00:33:51 chrisvj: I'd try quicklisp first. 00:33:55 pjb: Actually fgfs has Cessna Citation X. I just couldn't find any docs on instruments :D 00:34:09 mmmk 00:34:20 naryl: have you browsed the manual? 00:34:28 or the wiki? 00:34:41 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:34:51 chrisvj: Tcl is another language. You don't run wish manually. 00:35:12 I'd be ready for a fork, because I'm more interested in military jets and missions, and I find the networking part of fgfs lacking. 00:35:23 pjb: The manual describes Cessna Sky Hawk 00:35:38 Cessna "Sky Hawk" IIRC 00:35:46 Aren't they close? 00:35:49 No! 00:36:11 On the other hand, if the simulation is realistic, the documentation of the real plane should do. 00:36:30 naryl: ok 00:36:32 One can find real F/A-18 documents on wikileaks and other places... 00:36:34 pjb: Citation X has lots of electronics, Sky Hawk's instruments are just radios and gyros. 00:37:15 naryl: try to get close to an airport. You may probably get old manuals. 00:37:26 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:37:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:37:36 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 00:38:23 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 00:38:40 pjb: Just found a better way: http://www.google.ru/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=cessna+citation+x+manual&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest 00:38:55 :) 00:39:30 Works too. 00:39:34 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:39:57 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:44 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:36 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.198] has joined #lisp 00:41:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-134-39.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:56 naryl: ok, i downloaded quicklisp, loaded it in lisp in a box, and set it to run whenever i run lisp in a box, now what? 00:42:22 chrisvj: install ltk if you haven't done so. 00:42:34 i did 00:42:53 Then set the value of *wish-pathname* in your lisp-system and run some code from ltk tutorial. 00:43:15 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:39 (ql:quickload "ltk") 00:45:14 pjb: To load "ltk": Install 1 Quicklisp release: ltk 00:45:54 sounds good. 00:46:01 chrisvj: It should do it without your help. 00:46:57 naryl: it just said that, i used (ql:system-apropos "ltk") to find what is available and it said # # # 00:47:13 oh now it loaded it lol 00:48:53 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:50:57 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.183] has joined #lisp 00:51:19 i tried http://pastebin.com/9iTc2BMH and got Class named BUTTON not found. 00:52:05 chrisvj: (use-package 'ltk) 00:52:18 hashrocket [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 -!- hashrocket is now known as systemaddict 00:53:28 chrisvj: If it complains about conflicts - resolve them for ltk package. 00:53:52 ok 00:54:48 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@nat/redhat/x-ygmjoopaktbfbliu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:54:53 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:56:29 resolve-by-unitern-or-shadow? 00:56:57 chrisvj: unintern 00:57:01 these are the options it gives me http://pastebin.com/UtdNEweH 00:57:07 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:27 unintern-all 00:57:34 ok i got it 00:58:26 chrisvj: But don't do it again until you understand what exactly just happened :) 00:58:32 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:59:14 I think PCL has enough information about symbols and packages. 00:59:17 minion: pcl 00:59:18 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 00:59:52 naryl: ok it works 01:00:02 great. 01:00:37 ty 01:00:54 is minion a bot? 01:01:04 minion: are you a bot? 01:01:04 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 01:01:31 ok so yes 01:01:37 chrisvj: Glad I could help. I'm off for today. 01:01:52 naryl: bye thank you 01:03:15 -!- chrisvj [ad11762b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.17.118.43] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:03:46 -!- rononovski_ [~rononovsk@bzq-79-180-184-37.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:46 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has joined #lisp 01:05:55 xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has joined #lisp 01:06:58 is there a case equivalent that uses equal instead of eq? 01:07:28 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-36.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:07:45 I wanted to do a case on a string 01:07:48 No. 01:07:50 B 01:08:03 There is a quickloadable string-case. 01:08:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:31 ok thanks 01:08:37 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:09:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:09:56 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx59-1-19.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:09 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:15:47 -!- l_aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:59 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:16:10 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 01:19:09 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:12 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 01:32:33 cqxtvz [~cqxtvz@67.224.69.43] has joined #lisp 01:35:24 _JFT_ [~JFT@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:36:07 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:50 PikeMinnow [~PikeMinno@ppp-68-251-36-199.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:09 -!- _JFT_ [~JFT@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:29 -!- PikeMinnow [~PikeMinno@ppp-68-251-36-199.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 01:44:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:54 michael_lf [~michael@117.32.153.145] has joined #lisp 01:47:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:24 Zenton [~user@46.25.140.110] has joined #lisp 01:50:21 -!- Zenton [~user@46.25.140.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:23 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.66.168] has quit [Quit: paul0] 01:52:10 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-167.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:52:24 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-180-202.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:53:03 -!- smanek [~neoashama@173-228-44-152.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:53:05 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:53:48 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C9E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:57:12 what do you think about this case-equal implementation? any other complaints besides it not being as efficient as if i was to generate a bunch of if/else blocks 01:57:22 grr pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120753 01:57:47 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:59:07 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:59:57 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:24 oh, i just noticed it only works with constants. :) 02:01:48 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:01:52 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:03:58 can this be trivially rewritten to support runtime values, or am I just way in over my head with my current limited knowledge of macros 02:04:08 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:30 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:04:38 grr: second option probably 02:04:59 yeah, I'll keep reading 02:05:28 it's just a shame that case doesn't work with equal, or at least doesn't accept equality functions. and i felt the need to rectify it :) 02:06:14 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 02:08:44 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:10:17 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:11:17 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 02:12:37 <_3b> grr: alexandria:switch ? 02:13:03 thanks i'll look into it 02:14:35 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:14:44 i'll try to write it myself first just for practice 02:15:46 grr: There are good reasons for case to work only with constants. 02:15:55 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:12 grr: It is the same with other case-like constructs in other languages such as C and Pascal. 02:16:15 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 02:17:36 beach when I said constants I wasn't refering to that, but to the initial value that's being checked against. this didn't work (case-equal (+ 1 9) (10 'ten)) 02:17:45 <_3b> beach: doesn't mean there aren't also good reasons for some other construct to use when you either don't have constants, or your constants aren't EQL comparable :) 02:18:32 _3b: True, but I wouldn't call it neither CASE nor SWITCH because those names give such associations. 02:19:32 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-25-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 02:22:17 I got it working :) 02:22:46 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 02:24:38 wow, it would be impossible to write a switch-like construct in all the other languages i used, and here i did it in just 8 lines. probably much better ways to do it, but it appears to work fine 02:24:59 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:28:37 actually i messed something up, it works with strings and ints but not with symbols 02:29:25 grr pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120756 02:30:04 Um, why not just use case? 02:30:30 Zhivago it uses eq, so it can't be used with strings 02:30:54 <_3b> grr: might also want to try returning something other than simple numbers 02:31:14 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:32 It cannot use eq. 02:31:37 <_3b> or doing something with side effects in the body of the clauses (for example printings omething) 02:31:58 _3b I'll try 02:32:08 Zhivago what does it use? 02:32:28 eql. 02:32:43 Otherwise it couldn't work on numbers -- you can see the glossary entry for 'same'. 02:32:55 ok, but it's still not usable with strings unfortunately 02:33:28 <_3b> eq/eql works on strings, just not the way you want it to :) 02:33:44 Yes. An unfortunate consequence of strings being mutable. 02:33:57 Javascript did a better job of strings, all-round. 02:36:00 <_3b> grr: also try something with side effects for the value you pass as 'arg', for example (case-equal (print 1) (2 2) (3 3) (4 4) (otherwise 5)) 02:37:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:44 _3b that appeared to work 02:37:50 got 1 02:38:08 <_3b> ? 02:38:23 (case-equal (print 1) (2 2) (3 3) (4 4) (otherwise 5)) gave me 1 02:38:46 <_3b> 'gave me'? do you mean 'printed' or 'returned'? 02:40:05 <_3b> with the version of case-equal in the paste, it should return 5, and print 1 three times 02:41:40 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 02:42:01 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:06 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:43:17 you're correct 02:43:17 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:44:12 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:44:55 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-168-16.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 02:45:00 I missed thet point of your test, so I added (1 1) too 02:48:17 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:23 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-173-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:58 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:09 that was an easy fix. I still don't understand why it doesn't work with symbols though 02:51:25 evening 02:52:12 also would (return (eval (nth 1 check))) be the right way to solve (+ 2 2) being returned instead of 4? 02:52:29 in the case of (case-equal 2 (2 (+ 2 2)) 02:54:06 <_3b> no, the 'right' way would be to learn how macros work :p 02:54:32 *_3b* is afk for a while though, so someone else (or a book) will have to help with that 02:59:49 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:59:52 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:05:04 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:05:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:06:21 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:31 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:39 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:16:15 Netcas [~Netcas@2001:da8:204:1071:2c0b:a1eb:7904:2900] has joined #lisp 03:18:13 -!- Netcas [~Netcas@2001:da8:204:1071:2c0b:a1eb:7904:2900] has quit [Quit: ] 03:18:15 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 03:19:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ucppwdolrpworecu] has joined #lisp 03:22:02 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:26:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:34:32 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:59 Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.189.39] has joined #lisp 03:40:41 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:42:33 is #\< special in sbcl? Every time I try to do something with a list with #\< in it, sbcl barfs :( 03:43:49 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:43:50 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@2402:1800:1:2801:226:4aff:fe09:eee2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:43 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.62] has joined #lisp 03:46:06 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:49:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:50:01 I must be doing something pretty stupid 03:50:18 Saturnation: paste? 03:52:21 yeah, should do that :) 03:54:04 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:32 Saturnation pasted "The value #\< is not of type LIST." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120759 03:55:57 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:18 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 04:00:14 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.66.168] has joined #lisp 04:04:54 -!- systemaddict [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has quit [Quit: systemaddict] 04:06:43 there's not enough data there to replicate it 04:07:12 OK, will get some data for ya 04:08:43 also, I think the real issue is that somehow, some list or sequence operation is getting *just* #\<, which is a CHAR 04:08:47 *CHARACTER 04:10:30 Saturnation annotated #120759 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120759#1 04:11:15 Saturnation: you have undefined variables. 04:11:44 pkhuong, huh? which one? 04:11:45 s 04:12:01 token and tokens. 04:12:20 ah, there is a let closure around that 04:12:37 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 Why would you do that? 04:12:40 includes more code, but left it out for clarity which left out the clousure 04:12:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has quit [Changing host] 04:12:44 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:12:48 because I'm new at this :) 04:12:49 Anyway, (setf token char) <- here's your bug. 04:12:58 ah, thanks 04:13:29 damn, I am stupid :) 04:14:11 thanks again, did the trick 04:14:53 Saturnation annotated #120759 "Solved" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120759#2 04:15:26 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:17:17 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:17:21 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.45] has joined #lisp 04:20:14 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:46 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-13-34.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 04:22:55 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:23:02 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:23:31 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-56-196.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:23:50 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.189.39] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:24:19 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has 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git che reports "No completion of che", while in a terminal window, I can do git che and it's completed to git checkout. Is it reasonable to instruct shell-mode to call the same completion stuff that the terminal window outside of emacs uses? 09:23:53 Yup, wrong channel. Sorry about that. 09:30:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 09:32:21 woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:41:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:44:30 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:46:04 -!- wliao [~wliao@123.119.242.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:05 Looks like ECL has a wrong example in docs. http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ecldev/devel_2.html#SEC12 09:49:21 naryl: possibly. ECL has changed quite between versions 0.9 and 10, so there may remain un-updated documentation around. Ask on ecl-list https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ecls-list 09:49:25 l_aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 09:51:31 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.126] has joined #lisp 09:52:14 H4ns [~H4ns@p579FB942.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:18 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:19 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 09:54:23 -!- koning_robot [~user@s5597d50c.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:56:31 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.245] has joined #lisp 09:57:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.3] has joined #lisp 09:57:23 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:57:28 -!- benny [~benny@i577A26E6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:58:00 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:59:30 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.3] has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:06 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:27 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:01:30 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 10:02:15 youguy [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:39 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-153-235.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:24 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 10:05:44 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-3-183.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:06:11 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:36 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:22 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:11:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ucppwdolrpworecu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:12:17 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:17 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:41 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lufgrsjzrwigmtip] has joined #lisp 10:12:41 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lufgrsjzrwigmtip] has quit [Changing host] 10:12:41 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:12:43 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:13:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:16:28 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:16:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-obqafolcqumpoqpk] has joined #lisp 10:16:48 astoon [~astoon@94.25.215.239] has joined #lisp 10:20:26 youguy_ [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:35 -!- youguy [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:22:35 -!- SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:05 SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 10:23:44 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 10:23:51 -!- SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:04 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:12 SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 10:25:35 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.137] has joined #lisp 10:28:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:35:47 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-obqafolcqumpoqpk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:37:25 Damn it. lispbuilder-sdl still fails on threaded sbcl on osx. 10:37:25 :( 10:39:19 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:40 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:57 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:15 There are some restrictions about the thread in which it can run, I think. 10:45:31 -!- SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 10:47:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:48:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:53:23 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:56:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.126] has quit [Quit: Offline] 10:58:25 I have a CFFI workaround in progress that might fix that but haven't had much time to work on it lately. 10:58:33 jsoft: perhaps you'd like to pick it up? 11:02:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:53 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 11:02:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 11:02:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:05:46 -!- astoon [~astoon@94.25.215.239] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:23 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.16.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:13 paul0 [~user@187.112.66.168] has joined #lisp 11:08:57 antifuchs: hi 11:10:21 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:44 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:41 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:14:09 -!- youguy_ [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:14:19 Buganini [~buganini@163.22.93.132] has joined #lisp 11:16:22 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 11:17:29 Hi, I am trying to connect cl to fortran code but via cffi: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120763 11:17:42 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-owrecawkwgktyibq] has joined #lisp 11:18:20 can someone pls see if they are able to reproduce the program (also the error)? 11:20:30 francogrex: have you considered f2cl? 11:20:44 francogrex: can you connect C to fortran already? 11:21:42 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.140] has joined #lisp 11:22:14 francogrex: are you sure the error comes from lisp? Perhaps the floating point exception is generated in fortran? 11:22:18 pjb: yes I use f2cl, but only f77 and also when I have EQUIVALENCE f2cl doesn't deal with it 11:22:47 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:23:41 I don't see a DIMENSION declaration for D. 11:23:44 pjb: yes possibly, but using f2cl on this code works ok, also direct compilation seems to work. I like this method because one can also call f90 function s in cl 11:24:25 which is ok. 11:24:26 D is not an array is it? 11:24:40 No, it is not. I though you allocated an array for it, but no. 11:25:29 pjb: if you have gfortran can you try the example? 11:25:32 francogrex: well, I don't see. Perhaps try to step into it with the debugger (gdb). 11:25:50 ok gdb is a good idea 11:26:48 brb 11:27:50 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has joined #lisp 11:28:44 francogrex: I get 0.9724227 without any error, but I'm running on gentoo 64-bit, not on MS-Windows. 11:29:18 with a 64-bit sbcl version "1.0.45.gentoo-r0" 11:29:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 11:33:15 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:14 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.140] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 11:34:37 anyone has experience with flexi-streams? 11:34:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:35:16 I'm getting an error when trying to fetch a page using drakma, "Unexpected value #x4F in UTF-8 sequence." 11:36:19 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:38:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:40:05 paul0: That means exactly that :P 11:40:26 but, how do I solve this? (I'm new to CL) 11:40:47 -!- Landr [~user@94-226-248-55.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:47 you have a keyword parameter 11:40:55 :external-format-in 11:40:59 alama [~alama@193.137.143.162] has joined #lisp 11:41:07 try setting it to :latin1 or something 11:41:15 hm 11:41:18 I'll try 11:42:28 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 11:43:20 paul0: Actually the default is :latin1 11:43:44 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:16 drdo: what if there is more than one charset in the page? 11:45:08 actually, I believe there is more than one charset 11:45:18 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-136-92-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 11:46:59 paul0: that's the problem with most code: they treat HTTP as a textual protocol, when it's really a binary protocol. 11:47:07 paul0: You can always just :force-binary 11:47:10 paul0: see if you can open a binary stream instead. 11:47:32 (drakma:http-request :force-binary t "url") 11:47:56 Really? Keyword parameters before mandatory? 11:48:18 nah, just me being silly 11:48:21 just woke up 11:48:42 ok 11:49:11 it worked, but I don't think closure-html will be able to parse it now 11:49:33 paul0: can you tell me the url you're trying to get? 11:49:43 drdo: http://www.pmf.sc.gov.br/servicos/index.php?pagina=onibuslinha&idLinha=665%20%20%20&menu=2 11:49:49 paul0: how can there be more than one charset? 11:50:19 splittist: ah.. long story, some people don't know how to handle charsets 11:50:22 Content-Type: application/run-encoded-text 11:50:36 Content-Type: application/x-run-encoded-text perhaps. 11:51:28 can't flexi just ignore this charset problem and go on? 11:53:01 well you can always just use flex:octets-to-string 11:55:21 pjb: [I get 0.9724227 without any error, but I'm running on gentoo 64-bit, not on MS-Windows] << OK thanks, so it must be something with the OS or the interaction of sbcl with the OS. 11:55:21 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:55:50 francogrex: yes, that's why I suggested the floating point exception coming from fortran: in Windows, exceptions are an OS thing. 11:56:04 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:57:26 drdo: that solved my problem :) 11:57:31 thanks! 11:57:47 paul0: does setting flex:*substitution-char* help? (Oh, you're OK.) 11:58:21 well, there are a lot of characters that wasn't rendered 11:58:39 but probably won't be needed to find out what I want 11:59:47 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:26 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:39 paul0: just as a matter of interest, what character is supposed to be between the A and O of ABRA?O in the heading? 12:00:51 "A Tilde" 12:01:30 ABRAĆO in iso-8859-1, but the rest is in utf-8. 12:01:41 Thanks. Yeah (: 12:01:55 that happens a lot here 12:02:07 It's a case where flex:*substitution-char* should do. 12:02:29 will work for that page 12:02:48 well, actually will work for every page with a tilde 12:03:09 but then I'll start adding other characters as needed... 12:03:30 well, looks like a good solution, I'll try it 12:04:06 A better one would be to call those guys up and yell at them to fix their page :P 12:05:10 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:25 hm, I'm not in the mood to fix the internet today 12:05:27 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:06:25 fortunately safari doesn't render "correctly", which is a good argument to convince them to fix that 12:08:07 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:08:42 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.139.158] has joined #lisp 12:10:13 tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-106-73.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:13:25 xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has joined #lisp 12:13:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:14:31 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:17 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 12:20:35 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-121-209.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 12:21:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.139.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:38 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:21:52 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.139.158] has joined #lisp 12:22:57 -!- H4ns [~H4ns@p579FB942.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: H4ns] 12:23:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:26:04 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:26:05 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:27:59 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28:19 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-198-22-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:06 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]] 12:30:25 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:30 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:31:42 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:32:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:38:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:25 -!- l_aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:38:39 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-77-238.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 12:38:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-owrecawkwgktyibq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:41:39 H4ns [~H4ns@p579FB942.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:09 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:16 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:43:49 -!- lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:43:59 alama_ [~alama@194.117.18.99] has joined #lisp 12:45:50 -!- alama [~alama@193.137.143.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:45:50 -!- alama_ is now known as alama 12:48:15 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #lisp 12:48:35 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2ef6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:44 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #lisp 12:48:54 hi 12:49:46 i'm having problems with IGNORE-ERRORS under sbcl. Basically, it does not ignore the errors. The error it is ignoring is of type SIMPLE-ERROR. Is that to be expected? 12:50:11 prxq: I would also expect ignore-errors to ignore errors, including simple-errors. 12:50:21 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 12:50:28 prxq: what does the code look like? 12:50:28 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has quit [Changing host] 12:50:28 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:53:30 Xach: on one hand way too messy to paste anywhere :-). On the other hand it is rather simple: it just wraps with an ignore-errors a form that does not always work for different reasons. 12:53:36 puzzling 12:54:19 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:54:36 prxq: It won't ignore compile-time errors IIRC. 12:55:07 it did work for some time, then i changed something and recompiled a function (with C-c C-c in lisp) and now it stopped working. 12:55:27 prxq: the messier the better! 12:55:44 naryl: it's a matlisp "this matrix is singular to working precission" error. 12:55:57 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:12 no paste, no case, no bugfix. 12:57:06 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:57:29 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:30 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:39 the resolution will not be televised! 12:59:45 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:00:06 lol 13:02:49 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:01 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:04:12 -!- H4ns [~H4ns@p579FB942.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: H4ns] 13:04:56 I'm trying again. Maybe I just miscompiled something. 13:05:15 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:06:20 (ignore-errors (error 'error)) --> NIL in "1.0.45.gentoo-r0" 13:06:27 prxq: some conditions are not error though. 13:06:58 (ignore-errors (error 'condition)) signals the condition. 13:07:11 prxq: (defun non-tco-tramp (func) (declare (optimize debug)) (funcall func)) (ignore-errors (non-tco-tramp (lambda () ...))) 13:08:49 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:54 if the error occurs and NON-TCO-TRAMP is in the backtrace, then IGNORE-ERRORS is indeed not helping -- probably due to INVOKE-DEBUGGER somewhere. if it is not in the backtrace, however, then you are being unwound from IGNORE-ERRORS before the error is signalled 13:10:09 sellout [~Adium@64.134.68.86] has joined #lisp 13:11:54 MoALTz [~no@92.8.236.131] has joined #lisp 13:13:29 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:15:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:11 nikodemus: thanks. I'll come back when/if it breaks. The computation takes a little while. 13:19:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.139.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19:41 prxq: x87 or x86-64? 13:19:45 xxxyyy [~xyxu@180.172.53.36] has joined #lisp 13:22:19 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:02 xan_ [~xan@148.Red-88-11-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:47 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.236.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:33 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@210.8.79.105] has joined #lisp 13:24:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@210.8.79.105] has quit [Changing host] 13:24:38 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:25:23 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:27:24 pkhuong: x86-64 13:28:45 No FPU mask trick? 13:30:00 pkhuong: no idea. How can I find out? 13:30:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:53 you would know. 13:31:05 What's the condition you're trying to ignore, anyway? 13:32:54 a simple-error thrown when I am trying to invert a singular matrix somewhere deep down in a larguish code.. 13:34:33 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@83.101.63.185] has joined #lisp 13:34:34 I could just go to the place and fix it / catch it, of course. I thought I could just go through a couple of cases and collect the result or a nil in case it breaks. 13:34:35 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:45 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 13:34:55 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-180-202.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:15 G'morning all. 13:36:32 hi nyef 13:36:53 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:37:36 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38:04 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 13:39:21 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:40:06 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #lisp 13:40:42 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 13:41:30 nyef: 'morning 13:44:03 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:45:13 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:20 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:49:10 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:49:42 hm 13:49:49 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 13:49:55 I'm trying to use trivial-http instead of drakma 13:50:06 why? 13:50:09 but I just cant print the result from http-get 13:50:14 hi, how can I do this query with postmodern? date(now() at time zone 'something');, I have problem with the at time zone part 13:50:23 well, because it is simple 13:50:38 so is drakma. 13:50:49 drakma has some issues with charsets 13:51:05 no it doesn't 13:51:07 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-140-98.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:51:09 I just want to download the page and parse 13:51:44 paul0: which means that it's the page that's encoded incorrectly 13:51:45 paul0: and how does drakma not work for that? 13:52:10 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:23 drdo: well, there is the problem with the page with more than one charset, which we're talking about earlier 13:52:27 longfin_ [~longfin@49.25.165.167] has joined #lisp 13:52:31 paul0: that's a problem with the page 13:52:31 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:34 paul0: drakma itself doesn't: it speaks a binary protocol. If there's no obvious way to set the charset, you probably want to work with a binary stream. I believe cxml can do its own decoding; failing that, you can try and punt the issue by working in iso-8859-1. 13:52:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:48 paul0: You can get raw octets 13:52:53 and do whatever you want with them 13:53:01 that sounds pretty complicated 13:53:14 ? 13:53:27 can't I send it to iconv or something first? I've already used iconv to fix this issues (in other languages) 13:53:32 no "trivial" or "simple" system will magically fix encodings for you. 13:53:36 -!- alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has quit [Quit: alama] 13:53:39 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:53:41 pkhuong: iconv fixes 13:53:54 but I don't know how to work with octets and binaries 13:53:55 paul0: Do you realize that you can encode the same character in different ways? 13:54:01 then you definitely want to get the page as binary data. 13:54:26 hmm 13:54:29 (I certainly wouldn't call iconv simple) 13:54:43 Does flexi support that weird magical encoding 13:54:45 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:54:51 that some irc clients used to have 13:54:59 to guess latin1/utf-8 13:55:24 yeah, it uses latin1+ASCII, and UTF-8, doesn't seem that magical 13:55:49 I mean, for anything else than latin1+ASCII, it encodes as UTF-8 13:55:58 paul0: ahmm 13:56:08 just no 13:56:11 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:56:15 I think iconv does this 13:56:16 latin1 and utf-8 aren't compatible 13:56:20 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@49.25.165.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:47 a non-ASCII latin1 character means something entirely different in UTF-8 13:56:55 paul0: any utf-8 sequence can be interpreted as latin-1... It's all guesswork. If you want to exploit iconv to get that mostly right, I don't see why you can't do that with common lisp. 13:57:17 longfin [~longfin@49.25.165.167] has joined #lisp 13:57:29 but, again, if you want to do that, you want to treat the page as binary data, at least until it's been through iconv. 13:57:47 I think IE and FF opens that page fine, without weird charactes because of different charsets 13:57:48 pkhuong: Do you have any idea how the guessing goes? 13:57:56 that's why no one cares about this issues here 13:58:13 (I'm using Safari here) 13:58:25 which doesn't show correctly 13:58:58 but some browsers can handle latin1+utf8 pages 13:59:16 drdo: "natural" latin-1 text isn't valid utf-8, so they usually go through utf-8 and redecode as latin-1 on errors. 13:59:44 I agree that we should use only one charset per document, but this is a transitional phase, there is a lot of places where both will be present 13:59:54 so, I'll need to work with that using lisp 14:00:08 paul0: that doesn't make any sense, it's takes a couple of miliseconds to convert a document 14:00:54 it takes, but how many hours (days?) will take to other webmaster do this? I can't expect them to solve this for me 14:01:27 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:51 shit, it doesn't work on Firefox 14:03:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:03:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-77-238.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:59 well, I can ask them to fix this, but I don't think they'll change anything soon 14:04:30 fodeu geral! 14:04:38 (i love saying this :P) 14:04:40 haha 14:05:08 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:16 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:28 well, the :force-binary t and octets-to-string will work for now 14:09:37 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Quit: McMAGIC--] 14:10:12 closure-html works with octet arrays. (But perhaps it will believe the charset declaration.) 14:11:05 benny [~benny@i577A3A6B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:40 drdo: lol 14:12:49 *zmv* thinks "fudeu geral" sounds better. 14:13:05 milkpost [~milkpost@66.102.210.93] has joined #lisp 14:13:22 zmv: I read it like that 14:13:41 -!- michael_lf [~michael@117.32.153.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:13:45 hm, there is a lot of portuguese speakers here, cool :) 14:14:24 drdo: but some people read it like "fodeu geral", with an "o" sound. 14:14:36 zmv: not me, i'm portuguese :P 14:15:05 drdo: I assume you speak portuguese, your host is from Portugal 14:16:05 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:26 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:37 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:17:55 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 14:23:18 koning_robot [~user@s5597d50c.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #lisp 14:24:59 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:27:12 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 14:27:54 morning 14:28:14 morning 14:28:35 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:34 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:29:52 <|nix|> morning 14:32:56 Hello slyrus. 14:34:23 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:45 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:10 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 14:38:45 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 14:40:16 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:01 *Xach* waves to Krystof 14:43:31 alama [~alama@193.137.143.162] has joined #lisp 14:43:34 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 hi 14:44:03 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:44:28 Xach: I'm almost done with the tiny project (circuit solver) 14:44:57 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:03 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:48:14 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:49:23 myu2 [~myu2@q040135.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 14:55:09 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:29 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:49 chiguire [~chiguire@190.39.219.244] has joined #lisp 14:58:49 -!- chiguire 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[~kdas@114.143.163.201] has joined #lisp 16:21:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.201] has quit [Changing host] 16:21:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:21:53 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:07 -!- xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:42 xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:26:23 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 16:27:32 *slyrus* is pleasantly surprised that 1) spectacle/opticl don't puke on this 100mb tiff file and 2) panning/zooming/rotating/shearing is quite snappy 16:28:11 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:53 sweet 16:29:07 -!- woudshoo [~user@ipleiden.intellimagic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:29:33 think how much easier that is going to make faking the screencast (: 16:30:46 I wish Trac was written in CL instead of python. Why don't the Trac people use a normal programming language instead of some weird thing I have to learn in order to customize it? 16:31:07 worked for cliki! 16:31:37 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 16:31:38 I think the trac people think python is a normal language... 16:33:09 I'm getting pissed at gentoo 16:33:24 drdo: Next stop, ubuntu? 16:33:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:33:36 (Thence to debian?) 16:34:04 probably going to arch 16:34:27 things stay in testing and masked in gentoo for ages 16:35:39 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:37 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-zzayjgzbhawijhak] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:38:58 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 -!- xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:17 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:41:36 (blurring said image took a while, however, but eventually succeeded) 16:41:50 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 I could speed up the discrete convolution for the x- and y-separable cases (like blur and sharpen) but haven't gotten around to it... 16:42:14 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:46:24 -!- Areil [~Areil@113.172.58.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:48:01 -!- drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:16 -!- alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has quit [Quit: alama] 16:51:10 silenius [~silenus@p4FC228B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:55 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 16:52:39 -!- trigen_ [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:53:52 Landr [~user@78-22-145-225.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:54:13 xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:54:56 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 16:55:24 <_8david> slyrus: so you're the TIFF implementation expert. Any idea how much effort it is to add TIFF Group 4 compression support to opticl? 16:55:43 *_8david* has done zero research on this so far, but might need it soonish 16:57:04 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:46 ah, some guy said he was going to send a patch for that but I haven't seen it yet 16:57:59 the first step was supporting bitmap (1-bit) TIFFs, which I added a few weeks ago 16:58:03 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 16:58:11 I think the group 4 compression would take a couple days 16:58:40 Areil [~Areil@123.21.171.50] has joined #lisp 16:58:45 are there a lot of docs with group 4 compression around or something? 16:59:05 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:45 <_8david> there's some information about G3 available publically; brief googling hasn't turned up convincing docs on G4 yet 17:00:05 _8david: http://www.cyrusharmon.org/blog/display?id=114 17:00:11 see the comment 17:00:31 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:35 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:49 df213 [df213@125.73.42.250] has joined #lisp 17:02:59 <_8david> very good. implementation strategy: do nothing, let Bryan handle it 17:03:53 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@66.102.210.93] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:04:10 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:04:16 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:39 MoALTz [~no@92.8.236.131] has joined #lisp 17:06:16 Bronsa [~brace@host68-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:06:17 <_8david> ah, even better news: ITU T.6 is downloadable 17:06:25 carbocal` [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 17:07:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:41 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:38 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:10:20 tronador_ [~guille@102.201.60.190.host.ifxnetworks.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:25 -!- tronador_ [~guille@102.201.60.190.host.ifxnetworks.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:19 -!- df213 [df213@125.73.42.250] has quit [] 17:12:00 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 17:13:24 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-5-230.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:42 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:05 ZabaQ [~Zaba@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:56 aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 17:22:27 -!- xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:36 xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:23:12 yes, that would be nice... if he doesn't deliver, it shouldn't be too hard 17:25:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:49 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:33 I've so far avoided needing FFI for image file I/O, but I might have to dust off my dcraw FFI bindings in order to read RAW files. I'm not about to open that can of worms in lisp though... 17:26:38 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:26:57 slyrus: reading binary files should be as fast using CL than FFI. 17:28:04 pjb: i think this is more about hassle than speed. 17:28:34 exactly 17:29:14 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 17:29:43 Just wait for DNG to be universally adopted. Problem solved! 17:29:52 I forget - is DNG a tiff variation or no? 17:30:10 -!- paul0 [~user@187.112.66.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:37 wikipedia says yes 17:31:11 Well, (read-sequence buffer stream) looks much less hassle than any FFI you could write... 17:31:38 Xach: DNG is extremely vendor-specific, I thought (: 17:32:20 pjb: now decode that into an easy-to-manipulate internal representation. 17:32:35 macros. 17:33:22 antifuchs: right. a bit tongue in cheek. "i can process this, it's xml" 17:33:22 one set of which for each manufacturer, or even line of cameras. 17:34:08 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-55-169-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:16 oh noes, xach is paraphrasing jurassic park (: 17:35:17 It's a UNIX system! I know this! 17:35:26 antifuchs: :) 17:35:30 sellout: haha 17:41:31 BlankVer2e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:42:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@148.Red-88-11-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:42:39 xml: or how to re-invent lisp lists... poorly 17:43:10 urandom__ [~user@p548A7F52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:50 more pointily 17:44:06 pointiness is essential for widespread adoption. 17:44:26 -!- BlankVer2e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:44:49 jtza8_ [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-249.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:45:07 pkhuong: clearly, they haven't read taste for the web 17:47:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.1.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:30 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC228B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:36 is there a destructive function that appends an array to another ? 17:48:48 nconc 17:49:03 kiuma: none, but you can write one, if one of the arrays is adjustable. 17:49:46 kiuma: do you really need it? concatenate is often enough. 17:50:19 (and it should be vector, not array, since arrays have more than one dimension in general, so "appending" them is not well defined). 17:50:31 pjb, I'm dealing with huge arrays of bytes 17:50:37 vectors. 17:50:48 yep vectors is correct 17:51:02 Notice that with a functional abstraction, you can concatenate huge vectors in O(1). 17:52:02 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:52:20 no cpu overhead ? nice 17:53:39 with the right data structure. Something like ropes, for instance. 17:53:58 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 17:54:45 systemaddict [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:55:38 kiuma: I didn't say without overhead, I said in O(1). 17:58:02 -!- splittist [~splittist@121-111.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 17:58:31 pjb, ok so for example could (concatenate 'vector partial-iso-image-bytes chunk-bytes) be fine ? 17:58:50 just to make a concrete example 17:59:06 This will copy the bytes, so it'd be O(n) with n=(length v_i) 17:59:37 pjb pasted "concatenated vectors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120781 18:00:02 pjb, thanks a lot 18:00:31 Constructuing closures, you can avoid copying the vectors, but still may use indexes as if they were concatenated. It's "destructive" in the sense that the slots referenced are still those of the original vectors. 18:00:34 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:00:35 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:53 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757624.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:23 -!- aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:26 If you have a lot of vectors in your concatenations, you can also generate a better accessor, indexing directly the right vector, instead of the loop. 18:02:17 am I small minded to think that IT workers should know better than use file names with spaces for anything other than end-user use? 18:02:42 "IT workers"? Yes, I guess you are. 18:02:51 What do you expect from "IT workers"? 18:03:04 pjb, the real thing I'm trying to do is to create an nth http server based on iolib, I need the whole buffer request before sending the reply. 18:03:05 I mean, they're not anal obsessive. 18:03:37 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:46 kiuma: when I implemented a protocol using IOLib, I just concatenated the buffers. 18:04:16 The only optimization I used, is that when I ate a line, I moved the bytes down in the buffer. 18:04:21 pjb, some clue that the embedded spaces make work 18:04:32 I'm not sure it was really a benefit, I should have profiled it... 18:04:51 with concatenate or with the concatenate-vectors you pasted ? 18:05:18 kiuma: With with adjust-array and replace, IIRC. 18:05:39 JuanDaugherty: actually space are a problem in shell scripts, but most other programs have no difficulty in dealing with them. 18:05:40 ah, it makes sense 18:06:05 kiuma: but really, profile. I'm not sure that wasn't detrimental. 18:06:14 pjb, didn't just mean programs. I have to deal with them at the command like and elsewhere. 18:06:25 *command line 18:06:47 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 pjb pasted "buffer" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120782 18:07:53 kiuma: here what I used. 18:08:13 pjb thanks again 18:08:16 JuanDaugherty: well, at the command line spaceless file names are easier to deal with. 18:08:44 -!- silentbicycle is now known as kool_aid_man 18:09:26 JuanDaugherty: When you say command line, is it a shell CLI? 18:09:52 by "command line" I meant an arbitrary one 18:10:02 JuanDaugherty: otherwise, you can implement your own CLI syntax, where spaces in file names are acceptable and not inconvenient. Also, write you scripts in clisp instead of bash. 18:10:18 right 18:10:34 JuanDaugherty: on the other hand, I'd advocate maximum pain. 18:10:48 scsh also might do 18:11:10 pnq [~nick@host-185.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 18:11:21 I'd write my programs and scripts to deal with spaces honestly, but if the "user" names file with spaces, I'd let him feel the pain. 18:14:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041098.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:17 how nicely non-passive aggressive (: 18:14:30 i'm talking about live interactions with people 18:14:31 SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 18:14:40 not programming for an end user 18:14:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:07 in the current time, spaces in file names are accepted everywhere for end use 18:15:43 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:16:23 JuanDaugherty: yes, but users click on icons, they don't type commands at CLI. 18:16:46 well the sure do type in the damn spaces :) 18:16:51 *they 18:16:57 As I said, the POSIX file systems don't care what's in file names, as long as there's no byte valued 0 or 47. 18:17:10 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:27 I've to go home, thanks for help ! 18:17:35 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:40 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 18:20:29 pjb: for portable pathnames under POSIX, you need to remove more characters 18:21:15 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:22:52 adobriyan [~ad@vulture-nat-37.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 18:24:45 p_l|backup: really? Which? 18:25:05 (and no, posix file names are not specified as sequences of characters!) 18:25:13 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180098142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:01 -!- xcv [~xcv@vr2t-dw017.rhi.hi.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:29 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.236.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:30:58 pjb: it's in the POSIX standard somewhere 18:31:05 currently looking for it 18:31:21 (the pathchk utility is available to check at runtime) 18:31:32 p_l|backup: what about 3.170? 18:32:14 -!- kool_aid_man is now known as silentbicycle 18:33:36 Raykon [~user@194.210.228.225] has joined #lisp 18:39:01 HG` [~HG@dslb-094-220-124-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:49 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:06 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-249.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:50 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:47:00 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-13-34.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:48:10 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 18:48:24 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:28 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:48:55 -!- astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:50:34 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:19 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.21.171.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:51:36 vilsonvieira [~vilson@h08100.ifsc.usp.br] has joined #lisp 18:52:03 masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:35 -!- krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:54 -!- kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:52:55 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:53:02 krappie__ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 18:54:55 codelurker [~codelurke@2002:62e3:bbdb:0:e60:76ff:fe66:2bd3] has joined #lisp 18:55:14 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@2002:62e3:bbdb:0:e60:76ff:fe66:2bd3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:25 smanek [~neoashama@173-228-44-152.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:36 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:04:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:23 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 19:06:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:14:12 jrope [~androirc@9.sub-174-253-197.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:43 nikodemus: how do you use map-root? 19:15:53 or rather, what do you personally use it for? 19:22:10 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C7A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:40 Xach: My guess is it's something that attila has used in a homebrewn fashion (don't know if nikodemus' work is based on his) - to find out memory leaks 19:25:29 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p5B0C7A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:15 yep, to answer the question: what points to this? (so you start from potential roots and use map-root to locate a path to the object you're interested in) 19:27:59 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C7A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:28:11 -!- Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek 19:29:04 nikodemus: I sometimes feel that sort of thing should be better integrated in the GC instead (and thus likely written in C, or interfaced through a socket) 19:29:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:29:38 -!- jrope [~androirc@9.sub-174-253-197.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: jrope] 19:29:59 pkhuong: i don't exactly disagree, but in this case i concluded that that would have been more work 19:33:09 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:33:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:50 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:54 lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:42:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:45 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:43:06 Can I look at bocsimacko's ai-challenge entries? I can't find any sources on the official page. 19:43:43 naryl: http://quotenil.com/Planet-Wars-Post-Mortem.html 19:46:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:46:34 -!- Raykon [~user@194.210.228.225] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:46:35 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 19:46:40 -!- lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:51:06 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 19:51:31 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-169325.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:53 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:55:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:47 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:48 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:59 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:05 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 20:00:13 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:13 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:02:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:02:42 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:04:57 -!- meltingwax [~meltingwa@c-68-50-12-75.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:05:08 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:07:23 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 20:07:57 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:11:00 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:35 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:13:43 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 20:15:17 -!- jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:30 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-osesrwiaebfjgekd] has joined #lisp 20:18:40 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:17 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:19:26 -!- ravic [~ravi@118-93-167-37.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:24 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 20:23:25 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:06 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 20:26:06 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:57 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:51 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 20:29:00 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 20:30:44 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:31:50 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:32:58 aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:37:50 -!- ilmari [ilmari@knuth.ping.uio.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:38:04 ... CLIM application frames have both parents and calling frames? 20:38:13 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 20:38:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:29 timack [~tim@hlfx54-2b-36.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 -!- myu2 [~myu2@q040135.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:45 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.96.152] has joined #lisp 20:45:07 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:08 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-239-151.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:12 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-153-235.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:46:17 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 20:50:12 Is there a way to build several asdf systems in one fasb file with ECL? The docs only say about :monolithic nil which builds only the system itself and :monolithic t which builds it with *all* it's dependencies. 20:52:56 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 20:53:57 naryl: afaik you might need to work with internal compilation commands for that 20:54:06 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx54-2b-36.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:15 I know that SBCL allows you to simple concatenate multiple FASLs to be loaded at once. 20:54:23 compile-file build-fasl etc, ok. 20:54:41 nyef: ECL uses OS-native image format 20:54:55 Yeah, figured it might. 20:55:44 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:55:44 Might be nice if we could do that with SBCL, but it'd be a lot of work. 20:55:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:52 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:57:14 nyef: I'm not sure it would be all that much 20:57:32 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:57:41 though the resulting files might cause ... headaches to some :> 20:57:55 (look ma, an executable that has no ld.so!) 20:58:59 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-094-220-124-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:51 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:14 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:46 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:51 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:11:52 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 timack [~tim@hlfx57-1-21.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 21:12:03 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:37 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:14:18 cheezus1 [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:18 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:15:15 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:25 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:16 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-163-210.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:18:02 redline6561 [~user@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:18:06 -!- redline6561 [~user@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:28 redline6561 [~user@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:22:10 Anyone here familiar with the LLVM IR instruction set? 21:23:12 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:25:03 gigamonkey: maybe sellout 21:25:12 Maybe foom? 21:25:21 and Ralith 21:26:25 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:40 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:00 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 21:28:10 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:26 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:27 Is it / should it be possible to create a CLIM PANE without a corresponding APPLICATION-FRAME ? 21:29:58 gigamonkey: a little 21:30:30 nyef: I believe you need a frame-manager for it, but not necessarily a frame 21:30:37 the pane can exist without being adopted 21:31:39 Why would you need a frame-manager? 21:32:04 You'd have to make-instance the concrete pane class, but other than that...? 21:32:31 And, of course, with-look-and-feel-realization is defined in terms of both a frame and a frame-manager. 21:33:27 I think you need to ask scott mckay that (-: 21:33:50 it's just what I know from experience. making panes without a frame manager never worked, and I suspect that's because of some protocol somewhere 21:33:53 (My rough thought here, btw, is to create a "bare" pane, and then have it adopted directly by a graft. No frame, no manager, just a grafted pane.) 21:34:14 Hrm. 21:34:43 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host68-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:29 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:09 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:39:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:39:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 21:39:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:40:12 Hello lispers! 21:40:19 Hello Lisper! 21:40:33 Greetings, Lisper! 21:40:42 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7F52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:57 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:04 :) Question today is when do compiler-macros check declarations? 21:41:23 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 21:41:27 mon_key: not portably. 21:41:27 *nyef* feels the sudden desire to watch TRON again... And Star Wars, and possibly Spaceballs. 21:41:29 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:52 mon_key: compiler macros are called on function calls, no declaration there. And there's no portable way to get the active declarations. 21:42:10 mon_key: however, an implementation may give you access to them. But why would you need them? 21:42:24 nyef: and Star Trek! 21:42:34 If you've got two months before you. 21:42:42 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:43 pjb: ... somehow, I doubt it. 21:42:48 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:01 Star Trek is better than Star Wars. 21:43:59 First, it's in our galaxy. 21:44:16 Second, it's Captain Kirk's birthday today. 21:44:20 80th! 21:44:22 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:47 ilmari [~ilmari@195.81.245.98] has joined #lisp 21:47:27 pjb: OK. Just tnat the spec says that a define-compiler-macro will take a declaration and I'm getting an error when i try to evaluate a M-V-B form. When called outside the M-V-B the form evaluates and the type declaration checks out... 21:47:54 These are declarations for the body of the compiler macro. 21:48:23 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:32 mon_key: lisppaste. 21:48:37 ok 21:50:13 nyef: did you see the new TRON? 21:50:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:50:56 Heh, given how bad it was, surely someone gave it this review: "new TRON bomb" 21:50:57 I'm not sure I'm happy with the new Tron. It's somewhat somber. 21:51:18 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:26 I'm not sure it was bad either. Just that the story didn't resonate with the original Tron. 21:51:27 I liked it. 21:51:50 In a way, it was too Matrix-like. 21:52:36 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 21:53:37 Best part of tron was the scene in the boardroom where the apple ipad code monkey starts bangin out shell commands to stop the hack attack :) 21:54:12 Speaking of movies that need to be rewatched: Hackers. 21:54:24 Sneakers! 21:55:03 gigamonkey: Aye aye; mplayer /movies/sci-fi/hackers--1995.avi 21:57:00 damn right 21:57:17 (it was the first time I heard the word "Unix", too!) 21:58:23 *ilmari* first heard about unix in 95 too, but that was because our ISP had SunOS login servers 21:58:26 It wasn't the first movie with Angelina. She did Cyborg 2 in 1993. 21:58:48 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C7A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 21:58:59 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:59:04 I longed for unix in 1984... 21:59:22 Was puzzled why Apple didn't run unix on its 68000 Macintosh. 21:59:28 a/ux? 21:59:34 pjb: there was A/UX 21:59:45 quite interesting breed 21:59:48 Well, not yet. But I bought A/UX 2.0.1 when I had a MacIIfx. 22:00:09 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has left #lisp 22:00:15 *p_l|backup* wishes someone did a full hw emulator of the more powerful A/UX compatible machines 22:00:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:37 Did you try Basilic? Perhaps it can run A/UX? 22:00:55 pjb: it can't 22:01:11 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:01:13 it doesn't do full emulation, and can't run software that doesn't use toolbox 22:01:35 it will run MacOS just fine, but that's it 22:01:53 On the other hand, there's MacOSX now... 22:02:18 *ilmari* remembers using basilisk to create floppy images for the nubus-ppc mac he briefly played with 22:02:28 using mac os 7. 22:02:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:02 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:18 the only Mach-based system I want to get my hands on at the moment is Tru64 22:04:03 and some Fast Page 36bit simms + a graphic card compatible with Tru64 :D 22:04:14 and then I can run OpenGenera normally ;D 22:04:22 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.96.152] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:05:18 francogrex [~user@109.130.157.207] has joined #lisp 22:05:28 I have a full set of Tru64 media somewhere in one of my storage rooms. 22:05:44 mon_key pasted "compiler-macro declaration and M-V-B funk" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120794 22:07:20 Fade: the only reason my Alpha is still running VMS 6.1 instead of 8.3 (or maybe even 8.4), is because it has only 32MB of memory :/ 22:07:40 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-13-34.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 22:07:44 I recently acquired an alphaserver 4100 22:07:58 now I just need to assemble and debug it. 22:08:19 do you run lisp on vms? 22:09:13 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@h08100.ifsc.usp.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:09:34 Fade: I don't have any install media for an implementation that would work there, and the kits I have for necessary prerequisites are for newer OS versions 22:09:46 *Fade* ndos 22:09:49 er "nods" 22:10:01 (prereqs to compile ECL or CLISP, that is) 22:10:25 there was VAX Lisp, which afaik ran on VMS, but I would need access to binary translator 22:10:48 ram kits for alpha gear are available on ebay 22:11:26 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:33 Fade: yeah, but I can't currently spare the change, especially for 36bit simms 22:12:20 usually when you find those, they are at most in pairs, while the machine I have has 128bit memory bus (so, 4 simms per bank) 22:12:36 still, the thing has wonderful engineering. Shows the quality :) 22:12:48 yeah. they were originally sold in matched pairs, iirc 22:13:27 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:13:31 Fade: depends on the system. Pentium required matched pairs due to use of 64bit FSB, but it was common to skim on the parity/ecc 22:13:39 anyway, when I finally get time to put the AS together, I'm going to make it available to lisp hackers. 22:13:44 yay! 22:13:45 though it will likely be running linux. 22:13:47 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:14:25 Fade: if you want, I could help set other systems up (not much experience, but a lot of enthusiasm ^_-) 22:14:50 though I did manage to install VMS few times on both VAX and Alpha 22:15:01 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:15:02 it has been many long years since I managed alpha gear; if you have documentation links, I'd be happy to receive them. 22:16:25 Fade: the HP/Compaq pages have very good selection of manuals, both for machines (in PDF) and for VMS (HTML and PDF). Dunno about Tru64, since it got discontinued 22:16:35 cool 22:16:46 i haven't even started looking around yet. 22:16:53 although I did get the system racked last month. 22:17:31 the parts that I recall that were harder to find were things like Alpha Architecture manual, but that might have been my sloppy research 22:17:40 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:21 anyway, Alpha is... interesting architecture to test low-level code against. Or multiprocessing code... 22:18:24 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:47 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@93.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:19:03 to quote linux kernel source: "And then there is Alpha" 22:19:37 yeah 22:21:54 nothing is in order and nothing is coherent >_> 22:22:39 OTOH, I really liked the spin-locked memory access instructions 22:23:04 load-linked / store-conditional? 22:23:32 nyef: no 22:24:11 nyef: you could lock a 1024 byte area of memory (1024 byte aligned) for a certain number of cycles 22:24:23 well, instructions 22:25:00 lock it to single cpu, that is 22:27:13 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 22:27:24 the usual memory coherence is actually ensured by compilers, afaik, at least if you want to access something from multiple cores in short period. The cache coherency wasn't deterministic unless you forced it, or at least the ISA didn't give guarantees even if the actual CPUs did. 22:27:33 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.157.207] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:27:53 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Client Quit] 22:28:47 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture-nat-37.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:05 Ooh. Fun. 22:29:32 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:29:36 nyef: and I don't recall any single precise trap. There might be one or two, but ... 22:30:05 mips64 has a simmilar arangement for any core >= r10k 22:31:01 this behaviour on Alpha was afaik also one of the reasons why it had separate sets of floating point and general registers 22:31:35 cause it made for an easier and more capable reordering mechanism 22:33:16 anyway, it was really fun architecture 22:34:11 I recall a study on various ISAs claim that it was probably one of the few "reduced" instruction sets among load-store designs 22:34:28 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757624.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:28 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:39:28 -!- schoene [~mark@cpe-24-93-238-67.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:51 "He's got a 28.8Kb/s modem!" How fast! 22:43:37 pjb: ... I'll tell you that it was damn fast 22:43:52 *p_l|backup* used 14.4 for a long time 22:44:09 also, 900 B/s transfers were common for me not that long ago 22:44:17 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:48 anything slower than about 400K/s kind of makes me crazy at this point. 22:45:03 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:04 pjb: its def. the compiler macro because when I remove it from the environment as if by UNINTERN the M-V-B form evaluates fine. 22:45:33 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:49:26 -!- redline6561 [~user@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:32 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:48 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:50:50 -!- systemaddict [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:52:33 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.140] has joined #lisp 22:54:14 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:54:27 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:57 systemaddict [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:09 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:55:29 mon_key: if I call (byte-request-integer arr off len), what type are array, offset and length? 22:56:31 Said otherwise, what word don't you understand in compiler macro? 22:56:45 ARR is an object returned from make-array OFF is an integer offset into the array LEN is its bounds 22:56:53 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:57 ARRAY is bound to the SYMBOL ARR! 22:57:05 OFFSET is bound to the SYMBOL OFF! 22:57:11 LENGTH is bound to the SYMBOL LEN! 22:57:16 ... 22:57:24 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:57:27 Why do you declare that OFFSET and LENGTH are integers, when they're symbols!??! 22:57:34 pjb: Polly wants a cracker 22:57:37 Again, what word don't you understand in compiler macro? 22:57:57 apparently compiler 22:58:25 Either this, or macro. In both case, you should expect code, not data in your compiler macro parameters. 22:59:00 Don't you already have a working example of a compiler macro for this sort of thing? 22:59:11 You may have a special case, where the code you get is some literal data, and then happily generate some simplier (pre-computed) form, but you cannot declare it to be such, because in general it won't be. 22:59:15 That is the working example :) 22:59:29 Just remove the declaration, it's silly. 22:59:40 pjb: Prob. the macro part actually. 23:00:18 Both. At compilation time you don't have data, you have code. Macros don't get run-time data as parameter either, only code (subforms). 23:00:22 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:42 Right, that declaration is horrifically wrong. 23:01:15 And the code for the compiler-macro runs at compile time, so there's little point in making it faster via declaration. 23:01:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 23:01:31 pjb: these declarations with macros have bitten my ass before. I guess I should stop doing that :) 23:01:49 Yes, forget about declarations, they're useless. 23:02:14 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-106-73.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:03 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:04:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:04:14 tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-106-73.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:04:24 pjb: Thanks for taking a look at that. 23:04:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 23:04:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:10 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:39 die flicker die! 23:06:54 ? 23:07:51 working on flicker-free scrolling/zooming/rotating 23:09:26 I wish I could get rid of this stupid border around between the scrollbars and my pane though... 23:10:26 CLIM? 23:10:38 yup 23:10:43 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 23:11:12 What sort of "stupid border"? 23:11:21 -!- Boxo [joonniet@melkki.cs.helsinki.fi] has left #lisp 23:13:52 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-65.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:32 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:34 nyef: http://www.cyrusharmon.org/static/jellies.png 23:17:13 The black border around the image? 23:17:31 What sort of pane are you using? 23:17:58 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.252.140] has joined #lisp 23:18:12 yes, that's the border I'm talking about. 23:18:15 Is that a scrolling and then something inside, or some other arrangement? 23:18:32 I have a subclass of an application-pane inside a scroller-pane 23:18:41 yeah, via scrolling 23:19:30 Buganini_ [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 23:19:32 ... a /stream/ pane type? Really? 23:19:43 gigamonkey: still need a hand? 23:20:17 -!- Buganini [~buganini@163.22.93.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:20:24 I'm comfortable with LLVM. 23:20:42 nyef: why do you think it's a stream pane? 23:20:57 Because you said it was an application-pane, which is a stream pane. 23:21:00 ah, because application-pane 23:21:03 gotcha 23:21:33 hrm... suggestions for other types of panes to use? 23:21:37 I might consider just defining my own pane type. 23:22:25 subclass of basic-pane perhaps? 23:22:29 Hrm. The one time I've done that, I subclassed application-frame, because I needed a stream. 23:22:34 Umm... leaf-pane, I think. 23:22:34 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:48 Since it's not supposed to have children. 23:22:52 (right?) 23:23:14 clim 29.5.1 23:23:14 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 29.5.1. 23:23:25 Stupid bot. 23:24:17 oh, ok, I'll try that. also, I'm cheating and using :incremental-redisplay t because otherwise the image doesn't display properly on startup 23:24:31 but that's probably just by luck/counteracting-bugs than by design 23:24:36 Anyway, it looks like you "just" inherit from leaf-pane and space-requirement-mixin, then define repaint and compose-space methods. 23:24:36 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:36 You could possibly force a repaint as part of your load command. 23:25:54 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:56 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26:35 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:56 hrm... it looks like leaf-pane must have gone away. I see some reference to various mix-ins and menu-foo-leaf-pane, but no leaf-pane 23:28:26 -!- Buganini_ [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:28:29 Yeah, leaf-pane is probably one of the unspecified aspects of the original implementation. 23:32:01 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:07 fun fun fun... looks like I'll just live with the border for the time being :( 23:32:20 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:36 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:32:59 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:33:02 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:33:37 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:33 I'm giving some semi-serious thought to putting together another CLIM-like system. 23:35:36 *p_l|backup* wants a portable, not dependant on CLIM, "command line" interface 23:35:43 (like Listener pane) 23:36:05 nyef: beach is working on CLIM3 23:36:09 fe[nl]ix: I know. 23:36:24 go go go! more clim-like non-clim goodness 23:36:27 I'm all for it 23:36:37 (and I wish I had time left to work on this) 23:37:16 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 23:38:06 Who wrote split-sequence? 23:38:33 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 23:39:21 the separate, portable command system would be nice anyway...I can see how it could be easily adapted to Web, GUI, CLI etc. 23:39:43 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:17 p_l|backup: CLI is quite irrelevant tbh 23:44:32 reb: IIRC, Arthur Lemmens 23:44:42 reb: cast of thousands 23:44:59 reb: there's a cll thread from several years ago where the design was hashed out, iirc 23:45:54 drdo: not that much... there are places where keeping anything more complex is just a waste of time, space etc. 23:46:13 p_l|backup: such as? 23:47:10 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 23:47:37 p_l|backup: maybe we're not talking about the same thing actually 23:47:45 drdo: usually specialized applications, or situations where you just want a damned UI but have no patience to do a full thing 23:47:51 I was thinking specifically about terminals 23:48:04 character terminals 23:48:09 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-106-73.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:48:25 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:48:49 drdo: I have seen quite a lot of use of character terminals still going on, though usually it was either 3270/5250 (wildly varied) or unix with ncurses (Point of Sale systems) 23:49:06 p_l|backup: really? 23:49:10 drdo: really 23:49:14 Over here there's nothing like that 23:49:20 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:53 drdo: if you ever go to a KLM/AirFrance booth, you end up in presence of a 3270 terminal emulator churning somewhere 23:50:02 and that's for a system developed recently 23:50:55 drdo: basically, they make sense in certain conditions 23:51:11 tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-106-73.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:51:50 especially for software that isn't sold as boxed product, but is used by trained operators (like the KLM/AirFrance reservation system), or for internal interface for use by developers/sysadmins etc. 23:52:49 Ralith: hey, I was just wondering if someone who was familiar with the LLVM IR instruction set could briefly characterize it relative to, say, modern CPUs or Java bytecodes or something. 23:53:19 unfortunately, I'm quite familiar with LLVM but only loosely with CPUs and not at all with java. 23:53:53 my ASM experience is limited to trivial stuff on old micros 23:54:02 For more fun, compare with TI Explorer macrocode as well. :-P 23:54:20 gigamonkey: I can say that it's higher level and has fewer instructions than is typical for CPUs 23:54:26 as it implements functions and structural typechecking 23:54:31 Ralith: is it register or stack based? 23:54:33 register 23:54:52 then it's "closer to modern CPUs" rather than "Java style" ;-) 23:55:00 okay 23:55:10 infinite registers, though 23:55:23 SSA ones 23:58:48 And the LLVM foo takes care of actual register allocation for you?