00:00:52 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:02:57 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:04:10 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:06:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-194.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:35 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:07 -!- fckStick [fckStick@173-21-234-231.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:09:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:04 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:24 -!- rme [rme@clozure-70FF0D4D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:11:24 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:14:36 -!- cognition_mind [~cognition@bas4-hull20-2925523668.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:02 -!- lambda [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:04 <_3b> hmm, github doesn't seem to allow me to have multiple forks of 1 project :( 00:15:46 Have I mentioned how much I prefer repo.or.cz to github anyway? 00:16:46 why ? 00:17:06 *_3b* hasn't even looked at repo.or.cz lately, and given the way it isn't loading, i can see why not :p 00:17:54 fe[nl]ix: The repository browsing seems faster, to start with. 00:19:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:19:53 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:03 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:31:28 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:39:42 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:50 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:42:50 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has joined #lisp 00:44:54 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:47:46 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-55-169-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:41 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 00:52:02 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DBBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:58:47 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:00:30 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:01 _3b: just push to a branch in that fork? (: 01:01:18 (I realize that's suboptimal... sometimes you want a different description) 01:02:18 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:43 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:56 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:08:30 Is get-internal-run-time the appropriate way to get a timer with millisecond precision? 01:09:03 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:10 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:29 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:13:34 -!- Atomsk is now known as ace4016 01:16:32 *derrida* finds get-internal-real-time 01:20:35 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:21:22 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25:23 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:24 nyef: ... you know, your question about why CAPI wasn't ported is a very fine question... 01:28:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:28:38 Oh? 01:28:49 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-55-169-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:44 well, CAPI is a rather fine interface, IMHO, so I'm really wondering why no one tried to write a portable alternative... 01:34:15 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has joined #lisp 01:35:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:34 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 01:38:34 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:42 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 01:40:23 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 01:43:45 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:00 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:42 andriu_pan [~andriu_pa@ABordeaux-156-1-90-16.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:50:19 bonne nuit 01:50:54 alguien sabe español? 01:52:14 ... mostly no? 01:58:59 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024001]] 02:00:14 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-208-121.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 02:04:28 timepilot [~timepilot@99.55.95.55] has joined #lisp 02:04:49 muy bien 02:05:26 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:8210:1e75:8ff:fe60:3240] has joined #lisp 02:07:00 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:07:09 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:42 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:11:19 -!- andriu_pan [~andriu_pa@ABordeaux-156-1-90-16.w90-5.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 02:16:56 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:57 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:54 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-12-74.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:21:21 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:50 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-25-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 02:23:02 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-182-184-65.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:59 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:24:31 sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:38 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:38 I've been trying to figure out why my code is so slow for 2 days and was wondering if anyone could tell me why. http://pastebin.com/nw5uT54E 02:25:38 sakekasi, memo from pjb: there's the function include in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=4efaeabce24e0908b4325d0bacaee76996d45df2&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=common-lisp/cesarum/utility.lisp 02:26:16 sakekasi: Have you used a profiler? 02:26:25 Zhivago, what 02:26:28 is that? 02:26:54 Well, given that answer, it is a research topic that you should persue immediately. 02:27:01 sakekasi: the MAKE-LIST and NTH calls in PRIMES-BELOW look suspicious 02:27:18 rootlocus, what should I use instead? 02:28:06 sakekasi: you should first understand the properties of the data structures you are using, and the complexity of the functions that operate on them. 02:28:49 rootlocus, I am a lisp newbie. I just used the list data structure. Should I use array or some other structure? 02:29:02 You should get a profiler, so that you can figure out what is taking up the most time. 02:29:15 sakekasi: listen to what Zhivago is saying 02:29:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:43 Zhivago, I did check the amount of time it took to run parts of this code. The part taking the most time is mark-multiples, which is run by primes-below which is passed as an arg to sum. 02:30:21 Sorry if I am being difficult or anything 02:30:24 lambda [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:35 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:33:54 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7F95B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:39:00 What is get-internal-run-time useful for? 02:39:47 derrida: Implementing profiling utilities such as TIME. 02:40:02 "The intent is that the difference between the values of two calls to this function be the amount of time between the two calls during which computational effort was expended on behalf of the executing program." 02:41:32 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:45 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:49 *derrida* is still trying to process paragraph 02:51:13 leifw [~user@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:11 pkhuong: nyef: got it. thank you. 02:56:47 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:21 davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has joined #lisp 02:58:45 Is there a reference similar to http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/ only with everyone grouped by categories rather than starting letter? 02:59:38 davekong: the hyperspec is structured as such (by "dictionaries" of functions, types, etc. related to functionality) 03:00:29 <_3b> seems like it wouldn't take more than a minute or 2 to copy it into emacs, reformat a bit and re-sort it 03:00:55 <_3b> (assuming by 'category' you mean the stuff at the end of the lines) 03:00:59 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:23 <_3b> otherwise, chapter index in clhs 03:02:33 _3b: thanks, I think that is what I was looking for 03:05:16 michael` [~user@cpe-76-95-194-109.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:20 -!- michael` [~user@cpe-76-95-194-109.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:29 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 03:07:41 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:13:11 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18:52 -!- lambda is now known as platypine 03:21:39 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:29 -!- davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has left #lisp 03:25:35 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:29:01 pen [u854@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqqbyqldoxegunwz] has joined #lisp 03:29:11 hell yea, lisp channel 03:29:15 clisp? 03:29:50 <_3b> common lisp in general, not just the specific implementation named 'clisp' 03:30:11 oh 03:30:12 cool 03:30:30 I'm learning lisp. Is there any good guides out there for beginners like me? 03:30:43 <_3b> minion: tell pen about pcl 03:30:44 pen: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 03:30:48 <_3b> minion: tell pen about gentle 03:30:48 pen: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 03:30:54 ok thanks 03:38:08 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:40:01 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:40 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:44:01 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.227] has joined #lisp 03:45:27 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:8210:1e75:8ff:fe60:3240] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:48:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:24 gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has joined #lisp 03:55:03 -!- leifw [~user@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:17 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:43 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 04:03:58 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has joined #lisp 04:04:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has quit [Changing host] 04:04:09 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:04:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:04:17 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.69.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:40 anaptyxis [~anaptyxis@cpe-70-112-201-109.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:44 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@99.55.95.55] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 04:05:15 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.134] has joined #lisp 04:05:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:05:35 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:06:01 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has joined #lisp 04:06:03 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:13 -!- coffeemug [~coffeemug@adsl-76-254-59-240.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:10:22 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-wfksjfzhaxdjomnx] has joined #lisp 04:10:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-wfksjfzhaxdjomnx] has quit [Changing host] 04:10:22 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:11:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:14:06 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:55 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:16:27 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:16:38 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.118] has joined #lisp 04:17:07 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:18:01 starseeker_ [~starseeke@96.234.236.120] has joined #lisp 04:19:14 zen looks pretty neat 04:19:29 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:21:53 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:05 some evil mind could port that to movitz and make a graphical Lisp machine 04:22:21 which implementation of common lisp is best for windows? 04:22:53 <_3b> starseeker_: assuming you had a version of movitz with a working X server and c-based OpenGL? 04:23:21 <_3b> sakekasi: CCL is a good choice, or acl or lw if you have a budget 04:24:10 <_3b> sakekasi: clisp, ecl, or the windows fork of sbcl might also be worth looking at depending on your requirements 04:24:38 _3b, isn't the windows version of sbcl still in alpha? 04:24:51 _3b: I suppose if you wanted to do it right you'd have to get basic opengl in Movitz (zen is the X-server, if I understand correctly, but right now it needs glx for the OpenGL context?) 04:24:51 <_3b> sakekasi: note that i listed it last :) 04:24:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:25:03 _3b, ok cool ;) 04:25:31 _3b, which one is fastest? 04:25:54 <_3b> starseeker_: right, it is an X server, but it needs another X server to run, so isn't very useful by itself 04:25:59 *starseeker_* wonders how GPLv3 plays with an X server... I suppose it's not a big deal 04:26:28 _3b: heh, oh well 04:26:29 <_3b> sakekasi: that would be one reason to use sbcl despite the 'alpha'ness, CCL is reasonably fast though, in particularly it compiles a lot faster than SBCL 04:27:02 -!- anaptyxis [~anaptyxis@cpe-70-112-201-109.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:27:03 <_3b> sakekasi: i think the commercial lisps can be made to run reasonably quickly too, but i haven't tried to optimize for them myself 04:27:36 *starseeker_* contemplates trying zen and seeing if it can support clx/McCLIM... 04:28:18 _3b, can all of these implementation output exe files? I know that lisp does not compile to .exe 04:29:01 <_3b> sakekasi: ccl, sbcl, clisp, ecl i know can, i think the commercial ones it can as well, but it might depend on how much you pay them :) 04:29:51 -!- starseeker_ [~starseeke@96.234.236.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:01 _3b, also, do you know if sbcl will come out of its testing mode for windows anytime soon? 04:30:52 <_3b> no idea, the windows fork seems to be continuing to improve, not sure what they will consider 'release' quality, or if it will be merged with the main sbcl at some point 04:31:44 ok 04:31:46 cool 04:32:04 <_3b> and one way to help it get done faster is to try to use it, and tell them about any problems you run into :) 04:32:45 _3b, which one has more features? 04:34:58 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.245] has joined #lisp 04:39:27 <_3b> hard to say, clisp and commercial lisp have lots of extra libraries included, but many of those could easily be replaced by portable libs 04:40:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26584.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:00 _3b, I think I'm going to go with clozure because of the 64 bit version 04:41:12 _3b, does clozure have profiling functions? 04:41:30 *_3b* does not know about that 04:41:40 okay cool 04:44:48 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:24 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has joined #lisp 04:52:43 _3b: you should discount the "portable libs" that are only portability libraries. 04:53:44 <_3b> pjb: well, if they only hide differences between the implementations' libs, then obviously that implementation has a libraryf or that task :) 04:57:36 is there a portable way of specifying paths that ensures the system's root directory is the basedir for relative paths? 04:59:18 <_3b> pjb: but i meant stuff more like clisp's database bindings vs clsql or postmodern, or ACL's sha1/md5/etc vs ironclad 05:02:11 <_3b> so technically in both of those cases they have a feature that for example sbcl doesn't, but unless you have some good reason to exclude external libraries, i wouldn't count that against sbcl 05:03:44 _3b, I downloaded all the free implementations you mentioned and noticed that though they all run the repl well, the only implementation that I could run files with easily was clisp. 05:05:10 *_3b* runs things from slime (or once in a while from a standalone executable of some specific app), so can't say how well things run outside of slime 05:12:01 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:30 Harag [~Harag@41.56.51.169] has joined #lisp 05:15:17 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:15:32 -!- sakekasi [~sakekasi@99-28-149-24.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:03 minion: memo for sakekasi: you can load files from the shell easily with all the implementations. 05:19:03 Remembered. I'll tell sakekasi when he/she/it next speaks. 05:19:03 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:23:02 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180099169.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:23:29 -!- gz_ [Clozure@EF1547D6.468226F4.4BAFF3B1.IP] has quit [Quit: gz_] 05:23:29 -!- gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has quit [Quit: gz_] 05:26:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:27:40 Hunden [~Hunden@e180096153.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:30:31 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has joined #lisp 05:35:02 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 05:35:38 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:40 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 05:36:52 nostoi [~nostoi@181.Red-79-157-251.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:12 cfy` [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 05:38:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit 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the connection] 05:49:39 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:07 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has joined #lisp 05:52:15 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Changing host] 05:52:15 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:56:47 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:01:43 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:05:10 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 06:06:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:14:51 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:16:44 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:17:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:44 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:49 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:19:00 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:48 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C7F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:05 ls 06:27:08 er... 06:27:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:08 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:31:14 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:32:12 Is it possible to check whether a variable is special? 06:32:19 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C7F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:32:24 Special? 06:32:56 -> dynamic binding 06:33:03 cfy` [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 06:33:25 -!- cfy` is now known as Guest14650 06:33:37 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:26 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:26 -!- pnkfelix 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[~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:01:49 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:05:25 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:47 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:36 sshaginyan [~sshaginya@adsl-69-235-229-126.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:43 Does anyone know where I can find a xml or database where I can find all lisp functions with their parameters and return types so I can easily parse them? 07:07:07 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:07:28 churib: some implementations have specialp, I guess that it'd also be possible to use symbol-value or similar, as that will work with symbols and not with local lexical bindings 07:08:08 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 07:08:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:40 sshaginyan: it'd be possible to iterate through all symbols of the CL package and filter via fboundp to have functions, then some implementations have function-lambda-list which can output the syntax 07:12:12 maybe what you want exists but I have no link to such a list, other than the dictionaries the html hyperspec contains 07:12:44 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:33 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:14:30 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:33 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.51.169] has left #lisp 07:19:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.245] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.3] 07:20:06 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:28 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] 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Leaving.] 07:45:38 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:46:35 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:01 splittist [~splittist@160-168.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:51:04 morning 07:52:32 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 07:52:59 hello splittist 07:54:08 dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:25 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has joined #lisp 07:56:33 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:33 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:57:56 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:59:00 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.208.67] has joined #lisp 07:59:13 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:01:58 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:13 in python/java it is possible to re-raise the exception that you are handling. is there a similar command in lisp? can I "retrigger" the condition, so I can pass it higher up? 08:02:29 or should I just signal it again? 08:02:51 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:03:39 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-39-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:18 freiksenet: dont' you just return, which means you have declined to handle the condition and the next most recently established handler is invoked? 08:06:34 s/t'/'t/ 08:06:46 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-2-46.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:46 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:07:19 clhs 9.1 08:07:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/09_a.htm 08:07:54 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-thhpmsowcuefaiep] has joined #lisp 08:10:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.208.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:13:02 specbot: ah, it's as simple as that? 08:13:03 thanks! 08:13:24 splittist: uh, I wanted to address that to you of course :) 08:14:04 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has joined #lisp 08:14:36 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:15:17 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has joined #lisp 08:15:56 freiksenet: that's OK - not only is specbot more helpful than me, I think it's smarter (: 08:16:00 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:16:07 :D 08:16:56 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has joined #lisp 08:17:45 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:18:13 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has joined #lisp 08:19:22 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:6001:ae81:12ff:fe34:c30c] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:20:30 wliao 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[~Amadiro@1x-193-157-198-104.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 09:17:17 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has quit [Changing host] 09:17:17 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:22:22 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:23:17 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:37 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:25:07 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-iolzvvnoxmjltumy] has joined #lisp 09:36:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:41:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:41:43 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.43.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:50 good morning 09:41:52 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.245] has joined #lisp 09:46:21 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:00 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read 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joined #lisp 10:19:41 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:25:07 trigen_ [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 10:30:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:33:59 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 10:36:20 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:37:40 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:00 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:04 <_8david> Dear Lazyweb: What's Allegro's equivalent of fd-stream-buffering (if any)? 10:38:09 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:38:34 youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:29 -!- youguy_ [~youguy@1.Red-79-158-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:39:44 koning_robot [~user@137.120.115.165] has joined #lisp 10:41:42 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:46 -!- blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:58 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:12 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.251.57.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:39 -!- youguy [~youguy@11.Red-193-152-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:50:31 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBAFB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:46 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.73.139] has joined #lisp 10:51:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-219-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:51:57 -!- koning_robot [~user@137.120.115.165] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:54:04 krsn [~krisna@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 10:55:23 billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has joined #lisp 10:57:30 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:06 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-198-104.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:58:09 -!- krsn [~krisna@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:04 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:06:02 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 11:06:56 Hi, I was trying to read a very large file 110 MB and I got this in sbcl: Heap exhausted during garbage collection: 16 bytes available, 40 requested. and then thrown into ldb 11:07:05 can I increase the heap size? 11:07:34 <_8david> francogrex: --dynamic-space-size 11:08:00 <_3b> (or switch to 64bit if possible) 11:08:52 _3b: can't switch now. _8david how to to do that? 11:09:05 is this a memory (RAM) problem? 11:09:25 francogrex: what OS and SBCL version? 11:09:48 OS is windows XP; sbcl version: 1.0.45 11:11:05 billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has joined #lisp 11:11:30 francogrex: sbcl --dynamic-space-size 2048 11:11:52 for starters. it seems that the default heap size is 512Mb on windows 11:12:12 <_8david> nikodemus: wow, 2048? Does that really work on any x86 platform? 11:12:19 nikodemus: ok, I will try now 11:12:40 _8david: point :) maybe 1024 would be a better bet 11:13:51 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 11:13:51 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 11:13:51 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:14:44 francogrex: also (assuming you're reading the file into a string), unless it contains non-ascii characters you can consider reading it into a base-string instead 11:14:52 didn't work 2048 ... in error msgs: Dynamic-space-size bytes = 536870912 11:15:41 <_8david> well, I believe XP has this flag /3GB in boot.ini, perhaps 2048 could in theory work with that. 11:15:44 this is what I'll do: C:\\SBCL\\SBCL.exe --core c:\\sbcl\\sbcl.core --dynamic-space-size 1024 11:15:59 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:35 yes reading with read-line 11:16:40 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 11:16:41 a 110Mb file read into a (simple-array character (*)) takes 440Mb 11:16:55 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:20 _8david: intereseting, have you used Allegro with heaps larger than 1GB on 32-bit XP? 11:17:21 ok 1024 didn't work funny thing it's not allocationg it stil; sdays: Dynamic-space-size bytes = 536870912 11:17:27 <_8david> (has someone (nyef?) fixed those problems with code components in the upper half of the address space?) 11:17:49 <_8david> luis: don't know -- I've never adjusted my heap size on allegro at all 11:17:55 (coerce (read-line ...) 'base-string) 11:18:00 I think I'll have to go with the (simple-array character (*)) apprach 11:19:12 ok trying this now 11:20:42 hmm: nope: Heap exhausted during garbage collection: 8 bytes available, 24 requested 11:21:06 brb 11:21:14 francogrex: that's very strange. (define-alien-variable dynamic-space-size unsigned-long) dynamic-space-size ; the result should definitely change depending on the value of --dynamic-space-size command-line argument 11:22:34 please lisppaste terminal sessions which shows the two sbcl invocations, with and without --dynamic-space-size 1024, and resulting (un-changing) dynamic-space-size value 11:24:57 seejay [~seejay@plexyplanet.org] has joined #lisp 11:25:23 -!- seejay is now known as Guest33517 11:25:28 -!- SidH__ [~SidH_@203.101.61.7] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 11:31:14 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.8.227.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:31:34 MoALTz [~no@92.8.227.230] has joined #lisp 11:31:55 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:32:08 <_8david> francogrex: keep in mind that order matters for command line options; --dynamic-space-size needs to be pretty early 11:33:17 <_8david> (just in case you actually had a third option in addition to --core and --dynamic-space-size) 11:34:58 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:35:43 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:37:20 alama [~alama@193.137.142.221] has joined #lisp 11:39:12 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:44:00 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-149-188-238.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:32 seejay_ [~seejay@123.231.40.70] has joined #lisp 11:49:58 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:50:25 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 11:54:56 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-167153.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:55:26 -!- loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:22 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.245] has quit [Quit: leave] 12:01:57 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:02:10 ok _8david nikodemus; ah now I had this ensure_space: failed to validate 1073741824 bytes at 0x22300000 ... 12:02:16 I will try something else 12:03:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-178.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:03:32 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:57 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@93-138-210-113.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:12 I'm short on RAm it appears 12:04:13 ljosa [~ljosa@pool-173-48-201-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:05:25 loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has joined #lisp 12:05:25 VirtualAlloc: 0x1e7. ensure_space: failed to validate 1048576000 bytes at 0x22300000 (hint: Try "ulimit -a"; maybe you should increase memory limits. 12:05:44 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:22 hee is the log: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120724 12:08:58 tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-80-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:09:24 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:30 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 12:09:51 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-80-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 12:10:27 -!- ljosa [~ljosa@pool-173-48-201-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ljosa] 12:10:54 ljosa [~ljosa@pool-173-48-201-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:03 -!- ljosa [~ljosa@pool-173-48-201-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:20 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:12:34 it's the heap that is being exhausted during garbage collection 12:14:02 Dranik [~5b958649@static.247.19.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:21 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:05 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:17:24 --dynamic-space-size lets me go up to maximum 1000; I tried with 900 but not enough, need to find another strategy to analyse those huge files 12:17:29 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:18:13 perhaps streaming analysis? or do you need to keep everything in ram at once? 12:18:54 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:00 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:47 (with-open-file (f "your-file" :element-type 'base-char :external-format :ascii) (let* ((size (file-length f)) (b (make-array size :element-type 'base-char))) (read-sequence b f) b)) 12:20:18 xinming [~hyy@115.221.14.92] has joined #lisp 12:20:30 should allow you to read it in -- but yeah, streaming is probably the way to go 12:21:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:23 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:21:45 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-oqbtgmvfycfqejne] has joined #lisp 12:21:45 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-oqbtgmvfycfqejne] has quit [Changing host] 12:21:45 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:23:30 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:22 People are very suspicious to SBCL's 35MB (60 for x64) binaries. 12:24:52 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 12:25:05 Looks like ECL is really the only implementation suitable for desktop software. 12:25:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:26:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:26:15 naryl: That hasn't been my experience for niche software. 12:27:39 naryl: depends on what kind of software 12:27:49 also, LW isn't really that expensive, you know... 12:28:06 I don't do it for money :) 12:28:10 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-80-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:28:34 naryl: gzexe does wonders :) 12:28:58 Buying a system for free work is... wrong. 12:29:32 nikodemus: UPX breaks SBCL binaries, I'll try gzexe. 12:30:47 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:55 naryl: UPX is fixable, but I didn't have time or energy to sit down and track it 12:31:02 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:31:12 It works and makes it three times smaller. Thanks, nikodemus. 12:31:33 gzexe typically takes sbcl binaries down to 1/5th of the original size, and has always worked for me when I've tried it 12:32:51 gzexe though had some frobbing of unix parameters, iirc 12:33:20 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Quit: McMAGIC--] 12:33:50 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:43 naryl: anyway, depending on what you want to release, size might not be a problem 12:35:19 gadek [~konrad@62.121.148.46] has joined #lisp 12:35:57 In my expirience people often say "I don't know Lisp, can you build me a binary for my system?" "Why is it 60MB? o.O" 12:36:20 naryl: heh 12:36:58 naryl: try CCL if you can, it generates slightly smaller binaries (well, two times smaller, in my experience) 12:37:10 ECL of course is an option, but it's slightly problematic 12:37:26 (not that it isn't an awesome implementation) 12:37:45 I tried most implementations. CCL came second after ECL with only 10 times larger binaries :) 12:37:52 gzexe might be your friend 12:37:59 ECL - 2, CCL - 20, every other - >30 12:38:03 oh, someone's said that 12:39:42 ECL is also interesting in how it can produce "partial" images 12:39:56 that is, split the image into multiple dynamically loadable libraries 12:40:18 p_l|backup: So you can make an image for every library and one for your aplication? 12:40:24 naryl: yes 12:40:28 zuomo [~zu@p5B095B08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:32 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-80-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 12:41:09 And they brhave exactly like a collection of fasls? 12:41:39 or you can build a "common" image containing the shared code between multiple separate executables in your project, then have the non-shared code compiled as executables 12:41:49 naryl: they behave as one big fasl 12:41:55 hey everyone! it's a stupid beginners' question, but when i try to read from a file like this: http://pastebin.com/Mr5Qg5Vq and evaluate it in slime, nothing is printed on the screen - though there is no error message...what's going on here? 12:42:09 the code is ok, i think... 12:42:14 That's exactly what I need. I have four binaries wuth 80% shared code. 12:43:36 zuomo: you might try using (force-output) to flush pending output. 12:43:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-178.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:44:20 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:00 -!- alama [~alama@193.137.142.221] has quit [Quit: alama] 12:45:20 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:45:21 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:45:51 Xach: just (force-output t) after the (format...)? 12:46:11 zuomo: (force-output) suffices if you want to force output to *standard-output* 12:46:37 Maybe slime redirects the ontput somewhere? 12:46:57 maybe i've misconfigured slime? 12:47:39 but that is strange, haven't seen an ide that does not support a simple print()... 12:47:45 ;9 12:48:05 ok I'm trying streaming now. It will be ok 12:48:24 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 12:48:56 zuomo: What does the first line of inFile.txt look like? 12:48:58 zuomo: It works over socket. There are at least two streams it cat pront to. The Lisp system's standard output and slime's REPL. 12:49:12 zuomo: also, see with-open-file. not directly related. 12:51:11 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:51:33 first line of inFile.txt is just a bunch of ascii chars... 12:52:13 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d048bdb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:17 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 12:52:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 12:52:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:52:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:23 zuomo: could you paste a transcript to paste.lisp.org? 12:52:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:54:10 here it is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120727 12:54:49 btw, i'm trying to evaluate file-i-o.lisp witch C-c C-c in slime, so maybe that's not right? 12:55:18 It is not right. 12:55:54 zuomo: that defun is badly formed. 12:56:26 (defun print-content () (with-open-file (stream "inFile.txt") (write-line (read-line stream)))) 12:56:41 then switch to the repl and call (print-content) 12:56:45 See what you see. 12:59:36 the repl just gets stuck, no output...weird... 13:00:35 i've had running another instance of emacs with slime connected just a few minutes ago, maybe that's the problem... 13:01:49 It would help to have a working environment, then to write correct code, then to call it correctly. 13:02:15 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:02:46 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:53 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:3310:1e75:8ff:fe60:3240] has joined #lisp 13:03:12 -!- sellout is now known as Guest58317 13:03:41 yup, now it works...slime was messed up 13:03:55 seems that it does not like multiple instances... 13:04:12 thanks for the help! 13:04:50 Xach: btw, i like those kind of statements: "If you had done it correctly, then it would work." ;) 13:07:05 -!- Guest58317 [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:08:08 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:08:38 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:08:41 but when i evaluate the (print-content) directly in the buffer in which i edit file-i-o.lisp, the output is printed in the repl...not in the minibuffer or an external window, is this how it is meant to be in slime? 13:09:05 milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:46 I don't know. I don't generally put output-producing calls at the toplevel of files and evaluate them from the file buffer. 13:11:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:51 -!- lusory [~bart@bb119-74-208-20.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:12:13 i'm trying to use lisp as a scripting language here, that's why... 13:12:34 Good luck with it. 13:12:47 not very smart, i know,... 13:13:10 I haven't found that many CL implementations or libraries are streamlined for that kind of use. 13:13:18 Seems like too much hassle to me. 13:13:43 When I want to run a Lisp program from the command-line, I load everything then dump an executable. 13:14:04 but would it be possible to "evaluate" file-i-o.lisp directly from the terminal? so that i can call it like "sbcl file-i-o.lisp" like i would do "python file_i_o.py"? 13:14:31 You could put "#!/path/to/sbcl --script" at the top and make it executable 13:14:58 But I haven't had much luck with that, because many interesting things require loading external libraries, and that can be verbose and slow. 13:14:58 yeah, that's one way, but just "sbcl filename.lisp" does not work... 13:15:06 "sbcl --load filename.lisp" will work. 13:15:11 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-182-184-65.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:14 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:15:35 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 13:15:57 not for me, maybe i'm doing it wrong? 13:16:04 zuomo: What happens when you try? 13:16:40 the repl pops up 13:16:59 maybe it's the (write-line) that causes problems? 13:17:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/120728 13:17:16 zuomo: did it call your function and display the first line? 13:17:30 You have to add more if you want to suppress the banner and quit after loading the file. 13:17:41 e.g. sbcl --noinform --load file.lisp --eval '(sb-ext:quit)' 13:17:45 Not streamlined. 13:18:01 wow, that's not scripting language like... 13:18:24 No, it's not. SBCL is not particularly oriented to that model. CLISP slightly more so. 13:18:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:18:42 Xach: may I recommend newLISP for a lisp-family scriting language? 13:19:06 naryl: Too late! 13:19:08 use "sbcl --script " instead of load 13:19:26 Ah, right, that's much better. 13:19:37 but I don't think that it'll use the filedescriptors provided by the cmd.exe window - sounds like it opens a new one 13:20:02 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-222-89-210.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:19 zuomo: SBCL is bad for scripts at least because it has long startup and it will compile your script before running it. CLISP is an interpreter and it has a much faster startup. 13:20:19 great! sbcl --script is much better! 13:20:32 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #lisp 13:21:12 is there an article that describes how design patterns are only making up for deficiencies in the language? 13:21:16 does it work with redirection on the console, too? 13:21:27 naryl: thanks for the info! 13:21:29 Saturnation: yes, plenty - on the lisp side, at least 13:21:47 is there one definitive? :) 13:22:00 *Saturnation* 's google juice isn't working so well this morning... 13:22:30 still there remains the problem that slime does not just display stdout in the minibuffer as i would like it to be... 13:22:54 zuomo: slime isn't streamlined for writing scripts. 13:22:55 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-138.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:23:05 actually, nevermind 13:23:14 Saturnation: eg. http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html : «Peter Norvig found that 16 of the 23 patterns in Design Patterns were "invisible or simpler" in Lisp.» 13:23:16 squeezing good google juice now 13:23:21 Saturnation: http://norvig.com/design-patterns/ is nice 13:23:25 thanks :) 13:23:25 what exactly do you mean by "streamlined"? 13:23:30 yes, pg links to this page 13:23:40 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-138.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:11 zuomo: I mean that nobody with the skill to do it has made script writing a priority and made it work naturally and easily. 13:24:25 I tried newLISP a while ago. Looks like it's purposely designed for small hacky scripts. But it's not a Common Lisp. 13:24:30 zuomo: My impression is that people who want to write scripts don't have the skill, and people who have the skill don't want to write scripts. 13:24:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:25:24 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:29 Xach: don't know, me personally, i don't need scripts too often... 13:25:47 Xach: my limited experience is that something that has to be used often just gets dumped in an executable - and somethings seldom used either gets changed with each run (and so used interactively), or it just doesn't matter that startup takes 2 seconds 13:25:50 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 13:26:00 G'morning all. 13:26:06 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:26 hi nyef 13:26:57 Anything going on? 13:27:30 urandom__ [~user@p548A75CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:36 Anyone here have an opinions on Clojure? 13:27:37 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:07 (What's this about a limit preventing code-objects from having the high bit set in their addresses?) 13:28:13 My opinion is that #clojure is a better place to talk about clojure. 13:28:14 *Having* opinions might not be the problem ... 13:28:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:39 just curious about what Lisp people thought about Clojure, which is why I asked here :) 13:28:48 Xach: #clojure will have other opinion on Clojure than #lisp ;) 13:28:53 -!- gadek [~konrad@62.121.148.46] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 13:29:16 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-105-76.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:30:06 gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has joined #lisp 13:31:35 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 13:31:35 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 13:31:35 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-134-39.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:32:17 Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:32:32 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:36 -!- zuomo [~zu@p5B095B08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:34:49 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 13:36:48 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:3310:1e75:8ff:fe60:3240] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 13:36:49 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:51 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:52 -!- gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has left #lisp 13:43:04 sellout [~Adium@18.111.33.205] has joined #lisp 13:44:33 benny [~benny@i577A26E6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:44:59 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:46:33 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:21 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:47:43 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:56 http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/03/11/0658232/New-Hardware-Needed-For-Future-Computational-Brain 13:49:30 AI is not feasible at the moment. 13:50:19 AI is just the stuff we haven't figured out how to tell a computer to do 13:50:44 Tons of computer applications today do things that were once considered in the domain of AI 13:50:56 GCC, for example. 13:51:17 yes, well. GCC is arguably self-aware. 13:51:19 Chessmaster 5000, for example. 13:51:21 and malevolent 13:51:54 in fact, I'd go a step further and say that the turing paradigm can't achieve true AI. 13:52:35 euangelion: Go one step further: In that case, real intelligence doesn't exist either. 13:52:59 either that or the universe isn't calculable 13:53:08 er, computable 13:53:29 I am sure GCC will be a major culprit in the eventual destruction of the universe. 13:53:39 So keep an eye on the compiler warnings! 13:54:48 There was a particularly disingenuous argument about the feasability of AI on modern hardware that basically went "computers are binary, neurons are multi-valued entities, therefore computers can't simulate neurons worth a damn", to which the counter-argument is the existence of molecular-dynamics simulators. 13:55:23 (We'd have to throw a lot more computing power at the problem to simulate a brain that way, but it could still be done.) 13:56:33 ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:35 Another "AI" application: Continuous-speech recognizers such as Dragon Naturally Speaking. 13:57:00 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 13:57:48 nyef: afaik we had gone the brute-force method on some brains already 13:57:55 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #lisp 13:58:13 text mining is a lot better than when I was an undergrad, I am impressed what can be done now in terms of "intelligent" semantic analysis 13:58:43 AI should be change to IA, Intelligence Automation 13:59:27 *nyef* goes back to what he was doing before this conversation started. 13:59:38 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:59:43 most of the data mining and other "modern" AI things are based on statistical approach, though 14:00:38 human minds don't seem to deal in discrete values either 14:00:42 2 + 2 = 4ish 14:01:28 dlowe: That's just the software doing that, not the hardware. 14:02:56 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:03:23 dlowe: our software deals with discrete values 14:03:37 also, various parts run on discrete values with PWM 14:03:59 (like muscles) 14:04:32 Like auditory and visual sensors, too? 14:04:40 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-80-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:04:51 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:57 p_l|backup: only with lots of training 14:05:03 auditory and visual run on analog 14:05:06 (Visual sensors /have/ to operate in terms of discrete values, they're photoreceptors.) 14:05:17 -!- sellout [~Adium@18.111.33.205] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:32 nyef: not exactly, they have a range of generated inputs 14:05:40 gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has joined #lisp 14:05:49 the problem is that they have very short saturation time 14:05:53 billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has joined #lisp 14:07:16 dlowe: we have a sort-of built in, or maybe "self-training" logic system. It's very malleable and not maths-oriented though 14:08:20 brains... are interesting 14:08:46 we know quite a lot about them, but lack the critical parts 14:08:53 yet we only use just 10% of it! 14:09:01 *euangelion* hides 14:09:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C9E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:51 euangelion: ... please go spew bullshit somewhere else... 14:10:12 a better approach to AI programming would be to have mentats lisp coders. 14:10:37 euangelion: the problem being that mentats were invented by AGIs? 14:11:08 -!- gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has quit [Quit: gz_] 14:11:48 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 14:11:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 14:11:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:18:51 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:21:24 when i type &rest into a macro definition, slime/swank is replacing it with junk, and I get an error: 14:21:32 eldoc error: (error Coding system iso-latin-1-unix not suitable for "00008f(:emacs-rex (swank:autodoc (quote (\"defmacro\" 14:21:44 does anyone know a solution? 14:22:52 the only somewhat useful thing i can find online is a german guy who was told not to use umlauts in his function names. 14:23:04 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:06 <_8david> how about C-q & 14:23:51 _8david: that worked fine 14:23:53 oconnore: I think you have different coding systems on two sides of the stream 14:24:15 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.73.139] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:25:09 . 14:25:13 -!- loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:25:13 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-73-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:26:28 PuffTheMagic: what's up? 14:26:29 p_l|backup: i don't know why that would be, but i did recently switch to using putty on windows. 14:26:48 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 14:26:55 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:52 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:30:06 what encoding should i be using? putty is set to iso-8859-1. 14:30:29 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:31:05 i tried utf8 and it was also corrupted. 14:31:10 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:11 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 14:31:53 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:32:21 -!- ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:43 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:47 I'd recommend setting the whole system into UTF-8 (that means locale, emacs, terminal, putty, lisp) 14:34:35 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:34:50 <_8david> while that isn't a bad recommendation, slime communication issues as such should go away with (set-language-environment "UTF-8") (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) in .emacs 14:35:23 koning_robot [~user@137.120.115.202] has joined #lisp 14:35:49 ok, well i will play around with it 14:35:51 thanks 14:37:08 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:38:39 xan_ [~xan@125.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-59-135.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:39:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-59-135.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:39:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:37 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:45 pholasek [~pholasek_@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has joined #lisp 14:43:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@125.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:03 nefo_ [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 14:44:03 -!- nefo_ [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:59 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:40 xan_ [~xan@5.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:47:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:10 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has joined #lisp 14:48:14 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:49:31 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:39 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:58 Rukowen [~Rukowen@123.20.15.46] has joined #lisp 14:55:43 I think windows defaults to utf-16 14:56:13 -!- CrazyEddy [~phonautog@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:56:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:18 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:59:09 -!- koning_robot [~user@137.120.115.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:19 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:02:24 ... might be UCS-2 and only call it UTF-16. 15:04:33 heh 15:05:03 Or vice-versa. 15:05:10 krsn [~krisna@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 15:07:32 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 15:08:03 morning 15:08:32 CL-IRC fails sanity test on ECL. 15:09:27 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159931.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 CrazyEddy [~supercool@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:10:55 -!- CrazyEddy [~supercool@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:21 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 15:11:27 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-102-138.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:11:55 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 15:12:46 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:06 oudeis [~oudeis@94-195-172-215.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:14:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:32 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 15:15:54 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:16:05 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:17:36 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 15:19:28 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:59 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:20:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:20:34 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:20:38 hi there :) after some break I wanted to recall some lisp so i made up this http://ideone.com/PTWrB but it's not working... unless you make the "push" in defpfun macro to pkg-export perform in a compile-time... i'm wondering why this is not working. any ideas? 15:22:11 (expandtab-1 makes exacty what i wanted by the way...) 15:22:11 gadek: you probably should use progn in the init-pkg expansion 15:22:32 although the in-package doesn't help you there 15:22:45 it affects only symbols that are created while reading what comes afterwards 15:22:52 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 15:23:05 the symbols you have in *__pkg-funs__* have already been read, and are in another package 15:23:32 so your definitions will all appear in whatever package the defpfun forms were read in. 15:24:13 anyway, must head to the office now. see you later (: 15:24:19 ...maybe if I would make pkg-export a closure? 15:24:26 antifuchs: kk, thanks anyway :D 15:25:29 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:32 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-65.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:29:55 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@5.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:33:06 milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:05 -!- TDT [~user@74.115.254.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:23 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:36:02 gadek: you're using *__pkg-export__* at compilation time, but it's not defined yet. 15:36:26 gadek: you should wrap the definitions you use in the macros into an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...) 15:37:11 -!- tr3x is now known as trsh 15:37:20 mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:58 frx [~5d8d5025@ns1.smartcall.bg] has joined #lisp 15:39:43 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:29 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.249.204] has joined #lisp 15:41:53 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:22 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:42:43 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:49 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-tdwzssglsrofxpta] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:43:38 -!- seejay_ [~seejay@123.231.40.70] has quit [Quit: Adios!] 15:43:48 -!- Dranik [~5b958649@static.247.19.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)] 15:43:53 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:13 Fade: NT internals use either UCS-2 or UTF-16 (depends on version, NT4 iirc still was UCS2+BOM, later UTF-16+BOM), external format is either UTF-8, UTF-16, or local 15:44:23 -!- Guest33517 is now known as seejay 15:44:25 -!- seejay [~seejay@plexyplanet.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:44:25 seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 15:44:57 -!- guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-infpekaneyslemcl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:29 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.61.48] has joined #lisp 15:46:07 -!- pholasek [~pholasek_@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has quit [Quit: pholasek] 15:48:00 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:48:25 moellrich [~marmoell@173.195.5.88] has joined #lisp 15:51:08 koning_robot [~user@s5597d50c.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #lisp 15:51:21 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:08 -!- krsn [~krisna@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:13 -!- moellrich [~marmoell@173.195.5.88] has quit [Quit: moellrich] 15:54:14 Xach: If I upgrade ccl's bundled ASDF to version 2.013, will that have an adverse effect on Quicklisp? 15:54:26 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:54:28 rme: I don't think so. I tested everything with something very close to 2.013 15:54:32 It worked fine. 15:54:49 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:56 I'll be updating quicklisp's version from 2.010 to 2.013 soon 15:55:30 OK, thank you. 15:55:53 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@mapc033.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:05 cbbrowne1 [~user@tor-gateway.afilias.info] has joined #lisp 15:56:22 Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:57:32 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@143.93.53.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:51 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:51 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@94-195-172-215.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:06:00 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-thhpmsowcuefaiep] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:12:31 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:02 milkpost_ [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:02 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:49 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:05 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082ABA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:54 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5DDBAFB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:43 billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has joined #lisp 16:19:04 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B927.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:42 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:41 -!- milkpost_ [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:23:46 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159931.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:24:23 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@123.20.15.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:27 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.75.78] has joined #lisp 16:27:00 I have a wtf moment here. 16:27:14 load cl-irc and make it the current package. 16:27:28 *default-isupport-values* gets the value 16:27:38 (nick-prefixes-from-isupport '(("CASEMAPPING" "rfc1459") ("CHANMODES" "beI,kO,l,aimnpqsrt") 16:27:40 ("CHANNELLEN" "200") ("CHANTYPES" "#&") ("MODES" "3") ("NICKLEN" "9") ("PREFIX" "(ov)@+") ("TARGMAX"))) 16:27:47 Works as expected. 16:27:54 (nick-prefixes-from-isupport *default-isupport-values*) segfaults. 16:28:12 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.14.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:23 the list passwd to nick-prefixes-from-isupport in the first case is exactly *default-isupport-values* 16:28:27 -!- cbbrowne1 [~user@tor-gateway.afilias.info] has left #lisp 16:28:45 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:01 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 16:29:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:38 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:06 hey guys. so I just started a new job and got a brand spanking new Mac. what implementation do all the cool kids run on OS X? :) 16:32:00 zfx: Probably either ccl or sbcl. 16:32:09 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffee39.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 16:32:10 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffee39.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:20 all the others should work too 16:32:25 SBCL sounds good to me. 16:32:39 Yeah, but the cool kids definitely don't use clisp, for example. 16:32:59 sbcl if you want sbcl, ccl if you want mac integration/apis 16:33:09 although looking at the release matrix, it seems that the latest build for OS X was 1.0.29, which seems sort of old. 16:33:37 It's not hard to build your own, but you're right, that does seem oldish. 16:33:59 building your own is not hard but it is *slow* 16:34:23 If your mac is new, it could take up to 4 minutes 16:34:55 Mmm. Takes me half an hour, but my mac could hardly be described as new, and my netbook can hardly be described as fast. 16:37:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.146] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:41:35 I could probably build and upload new OSX builds 16:42:02 I have a 10.5 ppc machine and a 10.6 x86-64 one 16:43:48 ... OSX/PPC/threads? 16:44:40 Are threads the default on OSX/PPC now? 16:45:00 Do threads even /work/ on OSX/PPC yet? 16:45:14 I just use whatever macports gives me on osx, I don't build it myself unless I'm testing something 16:45:22 I don't believe that threads are default on anything but linux/x86oids. 16:45:24 You're asking me? :) 16:45:43 I may need help of an ECL hacker. 16:45:46 Well, I don't have an OSX box... Or a PPC box at all right now. 16:46:17 naryl: Only "may"? 16:46:31 Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:41 -!- trsh [~tr3x@93-141-80-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:46:57 Ok, actually I'm out of options. The code is quite simple and it works in SBCL but no ECL. 16:47:04 *not 16:47:24 -!- frx [~5d8d5025@ns1.smartcall.bg] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 16:47:38 How much code, and what is it supposed to do? 16:47:54 (And how does it not-work?) 16:47:58 tr3x [~tr3x@93-136-92-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:48:04 it segfaults 16:48:29 nyef: I'll try to make a minimal test-case. ATM it's a function in cl-irc. 16:48:48 Ah, right. The nick-prefixes thing? 16:49:27 yes 16:50:15 The first thing that comes to mind is the possibility of destructively modifying a constant. 16:50:32 Proving that might be tricky, though. 16:53:33 danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 16:53:40 oudeis [~oudeis@bhaji-mythic.collabora.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:53:56 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:54:40 hashrocket [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:42 -!- mcguitan83 [~user@negroni.enst.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:59:25 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bhaji-mythic.collabora.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:02:06 p_l|backup: thanks for the details 17:02:15 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:42 nyef: I think sbcl builds threads by default on PPC/Linux these days 17:06:21 -!- trigen_ [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:06:27 Fade: Not as of 1.0.46.32. 17:06:44 They -work-, I made sure of that, but they aren't on by default. 17:07:06 Huh. I didn't think I did anything special and I'm definitely using threads there. 17:07:23 Check your c-t-f.l-e? 17:07:54 yeah, I will, when I get back to the powerbook later today 17:08:25 Also your local-target-features.lisp-expr. 17:08:54 I have a feeling that it will be easier to write another cl-irc works with ecl than try to fix existing one. 17:09:00 Fade: NT internals... are weird. It's a pity that the overall quality degraded due to various pressures, but the initial project was quite good 17:09:06 nyef: Any reduced test case i tried works. 17:09:42 naryl: That's not good... 17:09:59 The only difference is that cl-irc has variables and functions in dofferent files. 17:10:06 but in one package. 17:10:08 Fade: it was probably the first mainstream multiplatform OS (with Linux and *BSD being the other multiplatform systems at the time, iirc, and not necessarily being "mainstream") 17:10:21 naryl: You... might want to try that, then. 17:10:42 p_l|backup: well, OS/2 had that powerpc port 17:11:01 and solaris had both sparc and x86 17:11:30 MacOS had 68000 and ppc at the same time 17:11:41 Fade: well, NT started with I think 5 platforms, and they nearly had 68k variant as well 17:12:05 *Fade* nods 17:12:14 Heh. MacOS. "Let's write the interrupt handlers in 68000 machine code and run them on the PPC via emulation!" 17:12:19 nt had only x86 and alpha at the beginning, I thought? 17:12:22 silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-072-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:03 nyef: apple certainly didn't seem to grow an engineering culture until they absorbed NeXT 17:14:51 they did pre-System 7 17:16:10 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has joined #lisp 17:16:13 Mmm. Best MacOS ever: System 6.0.7 with MultiFinder. 17:16:16 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-13-34.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:17:59 Fade: there was the original i860 or i960-basd workstations that it was developed on, x86 port (cross-compiled), alpha, mips, powerpc, and they were open for a possibility of amiga port 17:19:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has joined #lisp 17:19:14 if some maker of SPARC hw had been interested, they'd probably add SPARC as well 17:19:33 Fade: before NeXT, Apple was heavily involved in the design of ARM chips 17:19:38 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:19:49 also, a few dreadfully failed MacOS replacements 17:22:00 jmbr [~jmbr@93.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:22:27 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 17:22:28 like Rhapsody 17:24:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754a8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:28 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-73-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:24:37 taligent 17:24:41 pink 17:25:04 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 17:25:27 nyef: If I load it with asdf it crashes with stack overflow. If I REQUIRE the dependencies and LOAD the cl-irc files with required definitions it works. 17:25:35 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.73.139] has joined #lisp 17:25:50 naryl: At this point, I suspect that I cannot help you. 17:26:07 :D 17:26:08 *slyrus* went into the local electronics shop the other day and saw, in an apparently non-ironic placement, two (dusty) copies of the guide to programming the BeOS on display for sale 17:26:09 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.142] has joined #lisp 17:26:21 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:22 I guess I'm off to ECL's bugtracker. 17:26:37 Best of luck. 17:26:46 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:57 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:28:23 dlowe: Rhapsody was the name of the intermediate releases between last OpenSTEP and OS 10.0 17:29:11 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.204.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:30:22 ecl segfaults immediately when run in gdb -_- 17:30:41 naryl: it probably uses segfault to manage its gc 17:31:17 right. I didn't try to build it without optional gengc btw. 17:31:19 youguy [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:31:36 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:02 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: FOO.] 17:34:13 -!- youguy [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:18 youguy_ [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:36:24 Is there a Common Lisp implementation of a Slime/Swank *client* ? 17:36:32 reb: yes 17:36:45 reb: _8david wrote one, but the name escapes me...it's in quicklisp 17:37:01 *Xach* checks the list of 500 project names, wishes he could search descriptions 17:37:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:38:28 news to me that someone wrote a *client* 17:39:38 there's one in Climacs as well, isn't there? 17:40:16 There's this one for MCL (: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/2733 17:40:41 Ok, sorry, I was thinking of conium, which is an implementation of the server ide. 17:41:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:42:30 the google suggests https://github.com/pf/swank-client-usocket 17:42:51 Or for CMUCL http://www.cs.unm.edu/~madhu/clisp/swank-client/swank-client.lisp 17:42:56 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:03 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:43:24 Ahh, The Google. 17:43:26 Oh - the same thing 17:44:00 Thanks for the pointer to conium ... a second server implementation would also be handy to look at. 17:44:54 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:45:41 -!- cbbrowne [~user@tor-gateway.afilias.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:29 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 17:46:43 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:47 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:48:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:48:30 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:48:53 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:48 smanek [~neoashama@173-228-44-152.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:17 -!- youguy_ [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:33 youguy [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:51:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.78] has joined #lisp 17:51:42 Gmind [~Gmind@113.190.186.27] has joined #lisp 17:53:28 a problem though is that the swank protocols aren't precisely defined and stable enough, so third party implementations are few, and might be behind 17:55:13 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:56:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:57:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:57:27 -!- Gmind [~Gmind@113.190.186.27] has left #lisp 17:58:21 Bronsa [~brace@host120-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:58:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:58:51 phadthai: Yes, makes sense ... 17:59:16 xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has joined #lisp 18:01:08 oh there's also http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=swank 18:02:24 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has joined #lisp 18:02:55 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@93.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:23 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C7B0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:23 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 18:04:05 -!- youguy [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:28 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-102-138.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:07:23 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:08:37 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-56-196.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 18:09:09 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:35 -!- hashrocket [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has quit [Quit: hashrocket] 18:16:48 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.61.48] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:17:51 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:35 adobriyan [~ad@vulture-nat-35.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 18:21:04 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host120-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:22:03 -!- silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-072-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:30 silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-072-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:46 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 18:23:09 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:25:16 grr [~5d885c82@ns1.smartcall.bg] has joined #lisp 18:25:40 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 18:26:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:20 zmv [c885c40e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.133.196.14] has joined #lisp 18:27:34 I'm having a little problem with LET 18:27:59 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:28:20 I'm using PRINC before a LET (whose variables are defined with READ) 18:28:47 PRINC will only execute *after* LET captures all the variables. 18:28:59 That is some odd terminology right there. Paste some code? 18:29:12 ok 18:29:54 zmv: I suspect this might be some stream buffering thing. did you try (finish-output stream) after princ? 18:29:58 (but let's see the code) 18:30:50 http://paste.lisp.org/+2L5S 18:31:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:31:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has joined #lisp 18:31:20 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 18:31:22 I don't see any princ there. 18:31:35 oh, I removed it. 18:31:37 wait. 18:31:59 there's a princ right before the let. 18:32:25 s/'s/ was/ 18:32:32 better post the code you're testing against 18:32:38 clhs force-output 18:32:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 18:32:48 (give us fewer excuses to say "works for me" (-:) 18:32:51 there you go. 18:32:53 oh, force-output. 18:32:58 thanks 18:33:01 -!- zmv [c885c40e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.133.196.14] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:33:24 *gigamonkey* can still never remember whether he wants finish-output or force-output. 18:34:06 finish ostensibly waits until it's actually written. 18:34:18 on cliki it says that asdf-install is not being maintained. am I suppose to use something else? (quicklisp and clbuild are suggested here: http://www.cliki.net/ASDF-Install ) 18:34:24 antifuchs: yeah, I understand the difference. I can just never remember which one is the one I want. 18:34:40 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:41 grr: I think quicklisp works pretty well 18:34:51 I came up with a mnemonic once but I forgot it. :-| 18:35:15 grr: I also think quicklisp works pretty well. Fantastically well, even. 18:35:38 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:03 asdf-install is deader than dead by now 18:36:03 grr: just in case you think that's just logrolling, I too, who am not famous at all, think quicklisp is the bees' pyjamas. 18:36:15 ok. so I shouldn't even have to install asdf-install? a lot of packages mention how to install them with asdf-install. can quicklisp install them too? I'm pretty new to CL, just being a bit confused here 18:36:28 -!- silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-075-072-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:36:37 grr: asdf-install used to be a very popular way to install projects, so it's mentioned in a lot of places. 18:36:46 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.66.168] has joined #lisp 18:37:07 grr: quicklisp is new and should be able to install many useful projects. 18:37:47 Xach: is there any notable libraries that, for whatever reason, are not available via Quicklisp? 18:38:03 I.e. ones you know about that you would like to be available but which cannot be at the moment? 18:38:14 grr: the main cases where a package would be installable with asdf-install but not with quicklisp would be of various not updated for some time chunks of sometimes ancient code 18:38:28 (doesn't mean it doesn't work, but probably not something for a beginner) 18:38:43 ok got it. thanks all 18:38:44 gigamonkey: There are some projects that have a non-ASDF build step to work, like cl-launch 18:38:56 things get funnier when the code you want to install doesn't use ASDF at all 18:39:09 antifuchs: for certain definitions of 'written' :) 18:39:10 *p_l|backup* *stares* at Garnet 18:39:11 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-56-196.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:39:13 gigamonkey: I know there are some other projects that aren't loadable with asdf, but I can't think of anything at the moment. most of the libraries people use work with asdf. 18:39:54 Xach: most of those that don't is stuff like CL-HTTP or Garnet, I think 18:40:23 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-180-184-37.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:28 how come nobody picked up asdf-install, was it a license issue? 18:40:29 Well, presumably ASDF-install isn't going to do too well either with things that don't load with ASDF. 18:40:55 "finish-output attempts to ensure that any buffered output sent to output-stream has reached its destination, and then returns" - bit of a fluffy definition. Wonder does it actually force an fsync, or just make sure the OS has it... 18:41:06 tr3x: more like it had enough issues that it was easier to start from scratch 18:41:08 tr3x: It's pretty much finished. 18:41:14 gigamonkey: my mnemonic is "use finish alway" (: 18:41:19 tr3x: it does what it does about as well as it can be done, I think. 18:41:41 gigamonkey: if it should ever get too slow, I can easily change it to force (: 18:41:45 antifuchs: ;-) 18:42:04 Well, maybe not. But it's not that exciting to fix it further because of past problems, and also it has a terrible name. 18:42:11 antifuchs: yeah, well, I'm not sure when I'd ever use FORCE. Either I want it flushed *now* or I don't really care. 18:42:17 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-iolzvvnoxmjltumy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:31 rsynnott: it's fluffy, but it's the one thing that is defined to make sure your output actually appears before code execution continues, no matter what it does to achieve that goal (: 18:42:58 force would be convenient for log files, potentially; you might want to start the procedure, but you don't really care if you continue before it's done, as long as it's in progress 18:43:04 force's definition is even more wishy-washy, so I'd rather go with the stronger one (: 18:43:12 rsynnott: that's true 18:43:14 rsynnott: I think you could file a QoS bug with you vendor if finish-output doesn't do an fsync or equivalent before returning. 18:43:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:43:31 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-56-196.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 gigamonkey: I'm not so sure about that 18:43:53 but as gigamonkey says, most of the time I want it now, then. so finish is a good default for me (: 18:44:06 python flush, for instance, guarantees that the OS has it but does not do an fsync 18:44:16 while I just don't want output to linger in a buffer indefinitely. 18:44:25 rsynnott: thankfully, we're not using python (: 18:45:05 (which is sometimes what you want; many databases have a high performance mode where you don't care too much about losing a bit of data which does that) 18:45:13 rsynnott: but python also provides os.fsync 18:45:22 yep 18:45:26 rsynnott: databases should really not be using cl's stream interface if they care about performance (: 18:45:56 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 http://objectmix.com/lisp/172048-file-sync.html#post611360 - interesting 18:46:11 effective flushing methods for different file systems differ. 18:46:28 in a way that I fear cl can't abstract away 18:46:47 hell, effective file storage and access patterns differ too 18:46:52 so if you dare to write a database that has D requirements, you're best off writing the fs interface yourself. 18:47:01 well, in extreme cases even the OS can't abstract it away :) 18:47:06 that's right (: 18:47:26 rsynnott: well, recently they are dropping the use of raw devices, though Oracle still does... 18:47:35 -!- ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:47:50 so really, most of the time you'll be using *-output for debug logging. in such a scenario, finish is a better default to use IMHO (: 18:47:50 alama [~alama@a79-169-25-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 18:47:58 (certain cheap raid cards do write-back with no battery backup) 18:48:05 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-181-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:20 rsynnott: and disks will report "all done" when it's in fact not all done 18:48:39 it's a crappy situation, and I can't wait for this problem to be obliterated by ssds (-: 18:49:02 antifuchs: which have their own interesting issues 18:49:40 p_l|backup: I'm sure of it. but at least these issues are less counter-intuitive than on spinning platters 18:49:42 at least for now 18:50:18 (a friend of mine works in data rescue. he has a few very interesting stories about disk behavior to tell, not all of them fun) 18:50:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:50:34 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.227.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:44 rononovski_ [~rononovsk@bzq-79-180-184-37.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:11 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.66.168] has quit [Quit: paul0] 18:51:21 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-180-184-37.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:42 antifuchs: well, there are bits like write load, and I don't doubt that many of the cheaper SSDs will skive on certain things... 18:51:58 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 lambda [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:34 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:53:51 p_l|backup: sure. write leveling and stuff make it more complex (and some have bugs that will cause persistent performance problems depending on earlier write behavior). but you still can predict the lifetime and write behavior of an SSD more easily than for a spinning disk (: 18:54:50 according to my data-rescue friend, platter disks present only an idealized model of what's on them. they will pretend to write in one place and actually write in another, or they'll write data multiple times. 18:54:54 (in different places) 18:55:02 yep, I've heard that 18:55:07 all sounds terrifying 18:55:12 it's all very counter-intuitive, and there's no querying the disk about where it put stuff 18:55:24 worse, apparently tape drives can get into that situation, though it doesn't happen so much with modern ones 18:55:31 haha, awful 18:55:48 with a lot of old ones, the drive would happily write, and it would happily read back what it had written, but an allegedly identical drive wouldn't be able to 18:56:42 I found the source for trivial-irc among my sources. The library whose developer is long gone and source considered to be lost. 18:56:45 yeah, that depends on the method you use for writing, too. I believe DLT was better at this than, say, DDS 18:56:55 Xach: want to add it to quicklisp? :) 18:56:58 naryl: wow! 18:57:07 naryl: I do recommend cl-irc, by the way (: 18:57:09 It works with ECL. 18:57:11 MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.106] has joined #lisp 18:57:12 it's very powerful and works (: 18:57:13 antifuchs: cl-irc doesn't 18:57:18 :P 18:57:28 code archeology :) 18:57:31 ah... plz fix (-: 18:58:15 HG` [~HG@dslb-178-006-223-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:33 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has joined #lisp 19:00:24 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 19:00:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.3] 19:00:52 naryl: seems to have an undeclared dependency on split-sequence. 19:00:55 Bronsa [~brace@host120-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:02:06 Xach: Maybe i tampered with the source but my copy has split-sequence in dependencies. 19:02:14 seangrove [~user@173-228-44-24.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:24 naryl: Ok. I got it from github. 19:02:28 naryl: where did you get it? 19:02:53 I don't remember 19:03:04 It has no VCS files 19:04:36 Xach: mine has :version 0.0.2 19:04:43 So it's not lost after all :) 19:04:55 And the developer is on github. 19:05:17 Just nobody updated the page on cliki... for a year. 19:06:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:08:14 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:51 -!- splittist [~splittist@160-168.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 19:09:15 antifuchs: I'm pretty sure i've hosed the drives on at least two servers by beating them with poorly formatted SQL queries that cased the disk to seek more or less constantly (: 19:13:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:53 naryl: The github stuff lacks the explicit split-sequence dependency. maybe it was originally available indirectly through usocket or cl-ppcre. 19:14:36 Xach: Does it depend on cl-utilities? That had an implementation of split-sequence at some point. 19:14:40 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-304.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 19:15:06 sellout: no, only cl-ppcre and usocket 19:15:28 sellout: no. the trouble is a reference to the package-qualified split-sequence:split-sequence. 19:16:17 Xach: cl-utilities even defined that package, for compatibility  depending on #+split-sequence-deprecated. 19:16:25 Eek. 19:16:26 Or something like that. 19:17:22 :D 19:17:51 BTW, I'm now married to a doctor  she finished her defense about three hours ago. 19:18:32 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-52.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:18:40 Xach: Maybe you can use my... fork? https://github.com/naryl/trivial-irc/tree/ 19:19:00 I just added the dependency and sent a pull request. 19:20:13 that builds. i'll use it for now. 19:20:34 Thanks. 19:21:12 antifuchs: Also cl-irc is fanatically standards-compliant to the point it can't connect to QuakeNet. trivial-irc can :P 19:21:33 The bug is in QuakeNet server, yes. But it doesn't help. 19:22:56 being fanatically standards-compliant is a good thing 19:22:57 did you seriously use standards and irc in the same sentence? 19:23:21 there is no real standard to be fanatically compliant to in IRC. The RFCs are a myth. 19:23:45 IIRC you can't require anything other than USER and NICK before RPL_WELCOME. QuakeNet sends a PING. 19:23:50 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:24:05 The only standard is what the popular servers do. So, no, being fanatically incompatible is just a bug, when it comes to IRC. 19:24:11 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-181-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:24:35 foom: Sure, then you get into the same problem the Web has 19:24:46 People going crazy trying to make stuff work in broken by design IE 19:24:46 "get"? 19:24:54 waaay too late for that 19:25:49 http://sprunge.us/FHRa?cl <- This "fixes" cl-irc for quakenet. 19:25:52 But not for ECL. 19:27:20 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.249.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:52 naryl: the cl-irc head has that already 19:29:01 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:27 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:46 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ffc6d2.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:06 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:55 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 Is there a way to print an expression such as (cl-user::foo "bar") such that the output, printed to a string, will look like (foo \"bar\")? 19:44:03 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:10 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 19:45:21 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:45:21 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:45:22 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 19:45:55 -!- lambda [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:46:46 sykopomp: you could print it with *package* bound to (symbol-package (first expression)) 19:48:22 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 19:48:31 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-58-238.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 jpop [~kennyd@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 19:51:57 emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-166054.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:52:38 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-167153.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:13 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-027-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:56:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:13 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:15 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:59:40 beach: back in bx? 19:59:42 You can also use princ instead of print or prin1 20:00:03 pjb: that loses the double-quotes in the output 20:00:13 Not in a list. 20:00:20 Oh, yes, sorry. 20:03:32 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:04:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:45 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159931.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:08:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:08:24 how does one adjust the range of the scrollbars in a clim scroller pane? 20:08:58 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-167.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:43 ... aren't they bounded by 0 and 1? Or am I misremembering? 20:10:32 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159931.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:43 clim gadget-range 20:10:44 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/30-3.html#_1763 20:10:46 That, maybe? 20:11:26 hmm.. ok, thanks. I don't really care about the range of the scrollbars per se, but rather the underlying pane which is being scrolled... 20:11:43 Isn't that "just" its height? 20:13:31 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:13:43 hmm... I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out what "it" was... (resize-sheet pane b-width b-height) doesn't seem to be doing what i want 20:13:45 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has joined #lisp 20:14:27 ... you might have to do both in order to keep them in sync? 20:14:58 Doesn't help to resize the sheet if the scroll control doesn't know about it, after all... 20:18:21 Don't stream-output-panes already resize as needed? You might look at their resize logic to see what's necessary. 20:18:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:18:41 ok, thanks 20:20:13 Good luck. 20:20:27 (Damnit, now I'm thinking about CLIM implementation again...) 20:25:57 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:26:35 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:27:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:28:39 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 20:30:16 slash_ [~unknown@pD955F634.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:25 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:33:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:33:38 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:33:45 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:33:45 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:33:45 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:34:26 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ffc6d2.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:34:31 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:34 meltingwax [~meltingwa@c-68-50-12-75.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:35 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:11 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:58 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:40:56 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:20 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:44:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: pa pa] 20:46:51 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:47:46 MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.106] has joined #lisp 20:49:03 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-027-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:54 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.106] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:13 MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.106] has joined #lisp 20:52:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:27 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 20:52:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.202] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:54:10 jmbr [~jmbr@93.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:54:27 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:33 oudeis [~oudeis@149.6.120.130] has joined #lisp 20:55:00 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:25 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 20:57:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:58:06 francogrex [~user@109.130.157.207] has joined #lisp 21:03:32 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.177] has joined #lisp 21:06:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:06:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 21:06:10 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe03f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:08:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 21:09:10 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:10:46 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:12:25 read-from-string or parse-integer when bounds of string and contents of string are known? 21:12:32 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #lisp 21:13:26 Are there any efficiencies to be had when choosing one of another? 21:13:31 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:14:48 read-from-string is not only for integers 21:15:46 the bounds and contents of string are all hex chars and already verified to be so. 21:17:01 Then PARSE-INTEGER. It's more efficient, and makes an explicit statement about what syntax you're expecting as input. 21:17:37 nyef: Thanks! 21:22:24 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as Puffy_pixi 21:22:33 mon_key: and you don't have to worry about binding *read-eval* to NIL before you use it. 21:22:40 Raykon [~user@bl8-14-170.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:23:10 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:46 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:24:17 gigamonkey: Wouldn't matter, as all of the characters in the string are digit-char-p T. 21:24:41 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:24:46 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:25:51 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:25:57 nyef: good point. 21:26:12 If you've indeed just checked that, and aren't assuming it, obviously. 21:26:34 As, I see, mon_key said is the case. 21:26:36 Now, using PARSE-INTEGER with :JUNK-ALLOWED NIL will also /enforce/ that digit-char-p restriction. 21:26:54 Which may-or-may-not be useful in this case. 21:28:21 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@149.6.120.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:07 Is there a penalty for the :junk-allowed nil? 21:29:49 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:15 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:33 mon_key: I'd say it's more to do with semantics. 21:32:46 If you expect that the string is a well-formed integer you should use :junk-allowed nil. 21:33:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:33:38 But sometimes you want a sloppy parse, which is what junk-allowed t is for. 21:33:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 21:35:27 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-178-006-223-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:30 gigamonkey: it's also accept leading zeroes which may or may not be what you want 21:35:40 gigamonkey: Ok. Thanks. So in my case :junk-allowed nil is an additional level of paranoia which can't hurt and at the very least may communicate more clearly what the expression does. 21:35:50 adobriyan: I'm using :radix 16 21:36:05 doesn't matter 21:36:27 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955F634.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:45 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:15 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:39 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 21:38:05 abeaumont: even with junk-allowed nil PARSE-INTEGER accepts leading zeros. 21:38:25 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host120-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:38:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:56 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:14 unlike floating-point numbers, integers are easy to parse yourself. 21:39:19 Actualy nyef isn't quite right about junk-allowed nil doing a digit-char-p check: it also allows leading and trailing whitespace. 21:39:20 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-58-238.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:39:41 Fare: so it's a good thing the standard provides a function for parsing integers and not floats! 21:39:55 Wouldn't want things to be too easy. 21:40:19 floating points are not hard to parse either. They're just a tad harder to convert into floating-point values. 21:40:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 gigamonkey: Whitespace isn't an issue here b/c I have the bounds of the string so I could be extra_super_careful and verify the parse by checking the its nth-value 1 21:43:16 But still, it's MUCH better than strto*(3) rubbish! 21:44:15 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:52 MoALTz [~no@92.8.236.131] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 it strike me recently that #x is much better than 0x, because the latter aliases between "0+junk" and "error reading hexadecimal" 21:47:09 adobriyan: ? 21:47:12 adobriyan: I find 0x repugnant 21:47:41 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-36-143-155.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 21:47:47 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:33 I'd expect 0644 to get a lot more flak. 21:49:01 -!- grr [~5d885c82@ns1.smartcall.bg] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)] 21:49:18 gigamonkey: this is no longer about parse-integer, just side note 21:49:24 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:50:01 -!- jpop [~kennyd@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 21:50:13 adobriyan: okay, but I didn't understand what you were saying. 21:50:27 gigamonkey: absent explicit :radix argument, optional radix hint would better be completely unambigious from characters in integer's string representation 21:50:28 pkhuong: 0644 does have interesting return value 21:51:03 I see. 21:51:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:45 gigamonkey: imagine sscanf("%xx", &x) 21:52:31 or was it random decision, I don't know history 21:52:44 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:18 Heh. Just worked out 0644 in decimal. 21:53:42 it's #x10 instead of 0x10 because hex/oct/binary literals are just reader macros, no? 21:53:53 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C7B0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:54 That too, yes. 21:53:55 more or less the only obvious place _not_ accepting leading zeroes is inet_pton(AF_INET, ) 21:55:54 tr3x: if you desing radix hints from scratch, use something _not in [0-9a-zA-Z], that's the point 21:56:03 as first character 21:57:14 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:58:41 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wnwlhsstoheicrrb] has joined #lisp 21:59:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:59:30 timack [~tim@hlfx59-1-19.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 21:59:35 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 22:00:15 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:17 Actually, I can see why one might want to use something in the [0-9] range as the first character in a radix-prefix. 22:00:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 22:00:34 ? 22:00:40 And it boils down to "simplicity of parsing", in a way. 22:01:03 specifying the radix should happen in non-base10. that would be fun (: 22:01:05 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:01:10 You end up with a situation of all tokens beginning with [0-9] are numbers, and all numbers are represented by tokens beginning with [0-9]. 22:01:28 antifuchs: I can assure you, that can be painful. 22:01:46 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-166054.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:53 And then there's the ever-popular "what's my output base, again?" 22:02:07 10 obviously. 22:02:11 All your base ... ah, never mind. 22:02:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:02:27 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 22:02:28 pjb: Exactly! 22:02:37 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:41 Unless you're working in unary, right? 22:03:46 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:03:54 *adobriyan* opens C99 pdf 22:08:31 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:09:33 nyef: if parsing with REs, you trade 3 (base 8, 10, 16) to another 3(#o #x [0-9]+) 22:10:15 nyef: if parsing char by char, it's only 1 char more 22:10:21 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:11:01 adobriyan: We're talking '70s parsing at the latest, and possibly '60s. At -most- a single char of loookahead. 22:11:11 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:11:59 ok 22:12:49 -!- seangrove [~user@173-228-44-24.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:13:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A75CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:27 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-173-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:15:44 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture-nat-35.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:38 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 22:23:39 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe03f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:24:41 -!- Puffy_pixi is now known as PuffTheMagic 22:26:57 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.134.36] has joined #lisp 22:27:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:38 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:11 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 22:30:04 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:05 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754a8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.157.207] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:33:38 -!- mydik [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:33:50 rootlocus [~rootlocus@2402:1800:1:2801:226:4aff:fe09:eee2] has joined #lisp 22:34:27 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:34:32 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:36:25 duko [~cdepauw@bootes.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:57 milkpost [~milkpost@38.108.146.145] has joined #lisp 22:41:05 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:34 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:37 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-25-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 22:43:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:44:22 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.236.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:47:32 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-231.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 22:47:42 grr [~grr@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 22:47:52 -!- koning_robot [~user@s5597d50c.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:49:30 hello. is it possible to use the argument passed to the macro as a part of the name in the function that macro generates? this gives me error (my-macro foo) (defmacro my-macro (name) `(defun alias-,name (&rest args) 22:49:32 "defun: Lambda lists with dots are only allowed in macros, not here: foo" 22:49:57 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@38.108.146.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:50:02 grr: ,(intern (format nil "ALIAS-%A" name)) 22:50:38 nice, thanks 22:50:57 I did not think of using format to return a string. why is intern needed btw? 22:51:12 Because you want a symbol with a particular name, not a string. 22:51:28 yeah of course 22:51:55 grr: Though be advised that generating names like this is usually a bad idea. 22:52:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@s199057.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:15 gigamonkey can you elaborate? 22:52:19 And occasionally an excellent idea. 22:52:24 DEFSTRUCT's bad example to the contrary. 22:52:54 grr: well, there's the issue of what package the new symbol should be in. 22:53:05 -!- duko [~cdepauw@bootes.dreamhost.com] has left #lisp 22:53:10 milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:10 Right, DEFSTRUCT is a particularly egregious example. 22:53:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:53:30 And if you are creating a bunch of names (a la DEFSTRUCT) you can stomp existing names. 22:54:10 I.e. the user may know you're going to create ALIAS-FOO for them but forget about FROB-FOO which then stomps on their own function named FROB-FOO. 22:55:03 nyef: I wonder if you can characterize the times when it's an excellent idea? 22:57:05 Have a look at http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/clxs/clxs-design-notes.txt for the DEFINE-X-REQUEST macro. 22:57:09 |nix| [~user@cpe-72-226-54-44.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:17 grr: one often better solution is to define a generic function that takes a symbol as an argument. Then your macro can define a method with an EQL specializer rather than a function with a consed-up name. 22:59:29 nyef: did you see that other CL X server ? 22:59:59 It's a documented, meaningful transformation of a single parameter, provides a better description of what happens at both the specification and implementation level, and can usually be ignored by the programmer because it's effectively a reserved part of the namespace. 23:00:02 nyef: any reason define-x-request couldn't define a method on a generic function handle-x-request? 23:00:21 So (handle-x-request 'map-window ...) 23:00:25 fe[nl]ix: Yes, I did. I'm somewhat impressed and somewhat underwhelmed. 23:00:38 care to explain ? 23:00:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:01:09 (I can imagine one might be worried about speed though I have no idea whether that's a valid concern.) 23:01:11 gigamonkey: Dispatch efficiency, for starters. It's a consecutive series of opcodes, so a single lookup table works better. 23:01:50 Hang on, if you're looking up functions by some opcode (numeric I assume?) then your functions don't even need names. 23:02:19 gigamonkey: One word: BACKTRACE. 23:02:20 Though I agree, there's not much problem with such a use. 23:02:23 nyef: sure. 23:02:47 fe[nl]ix: I don't like some of the design choices, and I don't like the license choice, but a working X server is an impressive achievement, no matter how badly incomplete it may be. 23:03:27 And in this case since the macro is presumably only used within your own code, both of the concerns (what package and inadvertant name stompage) are less concerning. 23:03:42 Exactly! 23:04:01 Thus, it's an excellent time and place to do it. 23:04:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:14 So maybe the advice should be: don't write macros that cons up names unless you are only using them to avoid writing a finite amoun of code that you would (and could) otherwise write by hand. 23:05:26 I.e. DEFSTRUCT fails that test. 23:05:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-193-65.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:07 mrspec pasted "optimize - hashtable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120748 23:06:09 cons names up in a macrolet could also qualify (: 23:06:23 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:33 SBCL's DEFINE-ALIEN-TYPE-CLASS or whatever it is serves as an example of how things can go wrong, though. 23:06:45 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:06:57 Hello! Could you tell me what should I add in this function to make it optimizable? I dont know how to set type of values in hashtable :( 23:08:37 SBCL 1.0.27.6, or "why you need to be careful with random symbol munging in macros": http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git/commitdiff/bda733c26c2555335d355e4bc453e443c2e5741c 23:08:59 mrSpec: What do you mean? 23:09:07 fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 23:09:19 mrSpec: presumably you need to tell the compiler that (gethash x hash-table) will return a specific numeric type. 23:09:32 fixnum would be nice, if it's true. 23:09:46 gigamonkey: yeah, but how can I do this? :) (declare (type fixnum .... ) ) 23:09:47 that should be (incf (gethash x hash-table 0)) in all cases. 23:09:50 clhs 5.1.2.4 23:09:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_abd.htm 23:10:02 pkhuong: ah, thanks 23:10:17 nyef: really? you know that from memory? 23:10:26 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Client Quit] 23:10:29 drdo: No, I looked it up already. 23:10:36 ok, i'm less scared :P 23:11:14 Ah, I was wondering if you could put a THE on a place. 23:11:37 mrSpec: look at that urrl specbot just coughed up. 23:11:42 -!- Zenton [~user@46.25.140.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:46 (incf (the integer (gethash x hash-table)) 0) 23:11:47 gigamonkey: riot urrrl! (: 23:11:51 solves the problem :) thanks! 23:13:40 There is no way to fix the types stored in a hash table? 23:14:01 This THE INTEGER would need to be done on every access. 23:14:41 the integer doesn't do anything, it's just a declaration 23:15:14 naryl: You can't declare that a hash-table only holds entries of a particular type, no. 23:15:42 fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 23:16:20 hmm... it would be an interesting type, though 23:16:44 inlined storage? 23:16:58 Arguably, yes. And a further type constraining the allowed keys could also be interesting. 23:17:56 On the other hand, presumably you could define wrapper functions with appropriate declarations that are declared to always return a certain type. 23:18:03 And use them instead of littering your code with THE forms. 23:18:17 chrisvj [ad11762b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.17.118.43] has joined #lisp 23:18:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:18:35 That'd be painful with DEFINE-MODIFY-MACRO, surely? 23:18:51 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:56 hello, i am just learning lisp, how do you create a window? 23:19:11 -!- tc_ [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:12 a what? 23:19:18 ... A hamming window, or some other kind of window? 23:19:27 nyef: now, that's just mean. 23:19:39 just a normal window, sometimes refered to as a frame 23:19:42 gigamonkey: Which? D-M-M, or the DSP talk? 23:19:43 chrisvj: much the same way you do in C. I.e. it's not defined in the language. 23:19:53 oh 23:19:53 nyef: hamming window 23:20:01 Heh. Yes, it was mean. 23:20:08 chrisvj: Do you know any programming language? 23:20:18 drdo: python mostly 23:20:19 But then, I've just spent a good chunk of the evening thinking about CLIM. 23:20:25 tc_ [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:28 chrisvj: How do you create a window in python? 23:20:51 drdo: i use tkinter for that 23:21:24 chrisvj: You have LTK if you want tk 23:21:41 drdo: ok ty 23:22:18 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.66.168] has joined #lisp 23:22:56 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:23:14 ... you know you've been doing something weird when you look at one of your old source files and see slot names like $M_{xx}$ and such. 23:23:32 nyef: sounds like bit rot (-: 23:23:35 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:23:43 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@75-175-100-129.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:47 did that ever turn into something useful? 23:23:48 or more like bit rot13 (; 23:23:52 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 23:24:29 pkhuong: Not really. Never settled in to do the editor integration, and none of the existing LP systems seem like they'd do a good job either... And I also never did the reader macro... 23:25:08 tcr [~tcr@100.Red-88-6-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:35 antifuchs: lol! 23:25:54 I'm looking for a http client and html parser libraries, any recommendations? 23:26:04 paul0: drakma is an excellent http client 23:26:06 it's in quicklisp. 23:26:17 and closure xml (cxml) has a very good html parser 23:26:38 great, I'll check out 23:26:50 l_aashish [~aashish@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 23:26:54 both come have pretty excellent docs online, too 23:27:02 hope they help you get stuff done (: 23:27:26 actually I just want to write some lisp, I've almost didn't write anything last month 23:28:04 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:07 hah, have fun then (-: 23:28:25 thanks! :) 23:28:40 looking for quicklisp docs now, I don't even remember how to use it 23:28:47 http://quicklisp.org 23:28:56 the "beta" link has the walkthrough (: 23:29:18 When in Quicklisp going to get out of beta? 23:29:24 s/in/is/ 23:29:38 GmaiLisp! 23:29:43 haha, yeah 23:29:46 GmaiLisp 23:29:49 mindCrime [~chatzilla@nat/redhat/x-ykaaibdadinwehip] has joined #lisp 23:29:53 as soon as it grows a "perpetual beta" labs appendage, I guess ((: 23:30:31 I wish every beta was stable and reliable like gmail and quicklisp 23:31:01 xan_ [~xan@80.30.233.25] has joined #lisp 23:31:02 paul0: Also there is cl-xml2 from restas. https://github.com/archimag/cl-libxml2 23:31:07 beta is just a 4 letter disclaimer 23:31:30 I didn't use it but you can talk to the author (almost) anytime at lisp@conference.jabber.ru 23:32:06 Yes, it can both download http (using drakma i think) and parse and/or iterate it in one call. 23:32:12 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:32:17 s/http/html/ 23:35:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:06 -!- rme [rme@clozure-B7DF0875.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:36:06 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-118-12.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:37:15 where can i get tlc? 23:37:19 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:37:37 tcl, sorry 23:37:54 Yeah, I was going to say: from someone who loves you. ;-) 23:38:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:36 I just learned a new acronym 23:38:44 no one knows? 23:38:59 chrisvj: Google, presumably. 23:39:20 chrisvj: you should have it in your package manager under names "tcl" and "tcllib" 23:39:45 pnq [~nick@AC81B0D3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:06 im using lisp in a box, should i still have it? 23:40:25 paul0: Here's a random example which counts occurences of each tag on a page using archimag's cl-xml2. http://sprunge.us/Ueda?cl 23:40:36 I've been in this situation before... So, I've loaded drakma using quicklisp, but how do I use the http-request function? 23:40:44 chrisvj: Maybe it is Tk you want? 23:40:52 paul0: It's in the DRAKMA package 23:40:56 paul0: (drakma:http-request "http://www.google.com") 23:41:12 oh, right 23:41:17 naryl: that works too, i was just reading the pdf quickly and only saw tcl, didnt see tk 23:41:18 thanks again :) 23:41:33 np (: 23:43:26 chrisvj: Tcl is a programming language which has almost nothing to do with Lisp. Tk is a GUI toolkit which is standard for Tcl and often used in Lisp too. 23:43:35 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@nat/redhat/x-ykaaibdadinwehip] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:44:05 chrisvj: and Lisp in a Box is also quite old and pretty dead. These days, you're probabyl best off with a Lisp of your choice and Quicklisp. 23:44:19 Especially if you can install Emacs yourself because then Quicklisp can get you SLIME. 23:44:27 naryl: ah ok, the pdf that came with ltk says "To use Ltk you need of course tcl/tk installed." 23:45:04 gigamonkey: lisp in a box has both of those already 23:45:41 chrisvj: yes, I'm familiar with it--I made Lispbox, the most recent version. 23:45:42 ltk uses WiSH to draw windows so it means if you want to use LTK for your windows you'll have to install Tcl and Tk. Using your package manager probably. 23:45:55 gigamonkey: oh 23:45:56 Sadly "most recent" is not very--it's quite bitrotted. 23:46:26 There's some hope that some folks might put together a Quicklispified version in the future. 23:46:49 chrisvj: Tcl would be an external tool for LTK. You don't install it with Quicklisp. :) 23:47:16 naryl: as i said, i am new and have only glanced through gigamonkey's tutorials, how do i use the package manager? 23:47:40 chrisvj: What's your OS? 23:47:49 windows vista 23:47:57 You have none. 23:48:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:48:25 naryl: ah, i thought it was something with lisp 23:48:38 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-222-89-210.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:48:51 But if you've been using tkinter with Python, don't you presumably already have Tcl/Tk installed? 23:49:19 Does LTK even works in Windows? 23:49:20 gigamonkey: havent used it in a few weeks, never reinstalled it after i reinstalled python 23:49:40 naryl: yep "for Windows/Mac OS you need to download and install tcl/tk." 23:50:08 ok downloaded tcl, now what? 23:50:27 Install it and make sure LTK can find it. 23:50:47 "SB-KERNEL::UNDEFINED-ALIEN-FUNCTION-ERROR" 23:50:59 (actually I never used LTK so let me pass you to someone else now :]) 23:51:01 (I've got this error when trying to load cl-libxml2) 23:51:13 paul0: It uses libxml2 23:52:04 hm, if I install it using macport, it will work? 23:52:20 would just normal tk work? i think i still have the installer 23:52:34 well, I'm install to see if will work 23:52:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-52.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:52:48 *installing 23:52:52 paul0: The developer doesn't have a Mac, sadly you're on your own here. 23:52:53 Is there anything nice to crawl through C headers and generate CFFI bindings? 23:53:32 lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:32 naryl: no problem 23:53:41 minion: emacs? 23:53:41 emacs: Emacs is the One True Editor. http://www.cliki.net/emacs 23:53:44 minion: get-emacs? 23:53:44 get-emacs: emacs is five minutes away with: wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-23.2.tar.gz && tar zxvf emacs-23.2.tar.gz && cd emacs-23.2 && configure && make && make install 23:53:58 naryl: you recommend cl-libxml2 because it is the faster or because it is the most lispy xml parser? 23:54:32 paul0: I was just suggesting an alternative. :) It's not lispy - it uses a C library. 23:54:42 I've used closure-xml pretty succesfully 23:55:20 whoa 23:55:24 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-191-157.singnet.com.sg] has left #lisp 23:55:26 "that understands malformed html" 23:55:31 I like this 23:55:37 minion: You're wrong here. Emacs is the One True OS which has the Perfect Editor called vimpulse. ;) 23:55:37 what's up? 23:59:21 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:59:34 mindCrime [~chatzilla@nat/redhat/x-ygmjoopaktbfbliu] has joined #lisp 23:59:37 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]