00:01:04 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-169-172.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:52 implement a virtual emacs on top of your new super-duper emacs for 22nd century 00:02:31 Yes. But to motivate people to do it, perhaps having good GNU emacs extensions written in CL with emacs-cl would be helpful. 00:02:46 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:41 personally, I think a new editor that would implement elisp on top of its own system would be a better solution, given that Emacs has certain issues that breed more issues in elisp code 00:07:03 -!- hashrocket [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has quit [Quit: hashrocket] 00:07:43 (to make it funnier - I was once quizzed about "data structure to implement a text editor's buffer with". Friend wanted to check if I'd give good answer to the question he got asked on his Google interview) 00:09:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:11:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:10 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-76-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:19:13 -!- tolstoy [~Keith@74-95-41-77-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:55 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:08 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:49 -!- Evious [~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:05 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:48:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:55 p_l|backup: And you said gap buffer of course? 00:52:50 -!- glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:53:15 *nyef* would probably say that it depends on the rest of the system environment, and that he'd probably refer to the classic book on emacs-style editor implementation when preparing to make such a design decision. 00:53:31 mon_key: actually, I mentioned a tree of objects, which among others would include line objects 00:53:41 line? 00:54:10 mon_key: an object representing a line of text, either as a single string or multiple strings 00:54:17 (depending on the size of line) 00:54:27 Actually, I looked into that a bit, and now I think the ideal solution would be a balanced tree of lines, each line having potentially a different representation according to whether it contains just ASCII or Unicode, and according to whether it has been modified recently or not. 00:54:55 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.74.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:55:23 beach: that was my inspiration, actually, with the extension that I'd like to keep more complext objects than just pure text, to better facilitate complex editing 00:55:58 so, a lisp-mode, for example, could actually make the editor keep the forms, not text 00:56:04 p_l|backup: Right, I wrote Unicode, but meant "any other object". 00:56:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:56:38 p_l|backup: got it thanks. 00:57:12 p_l|backup: You might need both because there is not a 1-to-1 mapping between the text and the form. 00:58:17 -!- grr [~5d887cf0@ns1.smartcall.bg] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)] 00:58:18 p_l|backup: Climacs maintains the parse tree, but the terminal symbols are references to text in the buffer. 00:58:31 Is the balanced tree representation worth the complexity increase over, say, just a linked list of lines? 00:59:07 rme: Isn't anything better than a linked list of strings? 00:59:09 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 00:59:10 rme: A tree means lower complexity, not more. 00:59:44 rme: the only case where you'd have better results with linked list of lines would be, IMHO, very small files 00:59:52 or whatever the line is represented by internally 00:59:56 I've poked at the innards of Hemlock a bit, and it uses the linked lines approach, as you probably know. 01:00:48 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-47-137.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:52 rme: I think it is much more important to come up with an API that mentions neither trees, linked lists, nor gap buffers. 01:01:09 beach: well, the one editor where I might use the visual approach to lisp editing would be mainly working on code that doesn't exactly allow for reader macros... :) 01:01:17 beach: like containers? :P 01:01:41 I think you're right about that. Hemlock exposes its representation of text to the writer of editor commands. 01:01:50 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-42-2.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 01:01:52 mon_key: Like a specific API that is adapted to editor buffers. 01:02:01 longfin [~longfin@175.218.77.79] has joined #lisp 01:02:15 rme: And so does Goatee, which is not good at all. 01:02:50 beach: So it needn't be limited at all to only "lines"? 01:03:37 mon_key: I never said anything about being limited to lines. But the concept of lines is a useful one in many cases with text editing. 01:04:13 p_l|backup: even without any sophisticated reader macros, you might want to respect the way the user nput the text. 01:04:21 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C936.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:04:22 *input 01:04:44 beach: Sorry, what I am asking is what other types of "things" might one wan't to frob w regards a buffer? 01:04:57 mon_key: Any Lisp object. 01:05:23 So a meta-buffer protocol? 01:05:31 why "meta"? 01:06:04 mon_key: Ideally, one should be able to treat the buffer as a huge sequence of objects if one wants to, and as a sequence of lines, where each line is a sequence of objects, if one prefers to do that. 01:06:04 how else do you get the buffer API to jump over its own head? 01:06:21 mon_key: I am afraid I don't understand the question. 01:06:43 How would a buffer object introspect on itself? 01:07:25 It probably wouldn't. It would just rely on client code to display a buffer object contained in a buffer. 01:08:03 OK so not literally "Any lisp object" :) 01:08:25 yes, literally "any Lisp object". 01:08:34 mon_key: A Lisp list can contain other lists. That doesn't mean that lists can introspect lists. 01:09:21 What's this, buzzword friday? 01:09:34 I don't mean to be pedantic but don't circular lists have such potential? 01:09:35 drdo: To begin with, it is Saturday here. 01:09:47 beach: damn, here too :( 01:10:14 mon_key: I think you would have to define "introspection", because I am not following you anymore. 01:10:15 Matter of fact, here too! 01:11:29 Still Friday here. 01:11:54 beach: I've never used any of the older lisp environments but my impression is you could inspect/poke at objects from darn near anywhere 01:12:31 beach: the limited mode would be for people more likely to break stuff and complain if provided with reader macros. Normal CL mode would be available to experienced people :) 01:12:38 mon_key: What do you mean inspect/poke? 01:12:44 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-77-170.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:59 mon_key: Have you considered trying some of the older environments out under emulation? 01:13:09 Whereas for example with Emacs there are certain things one can't readily accomplish e.g. tickling a frames, window, buffer name etc. 01:13:54 Your explanation of inspect/poke is "tickling" ? :P 01:14:09 nyef: I have. I believe teh last I tried looking at open-genera was from a windows machine and that seemed daunting 01:14:49 I was more thinking either Brad Parker's CADR emulator or Daniel Seagraves' "Meroko" TI Explorer emulator. 01:15:15 Maybe I should invest some effort in that direction. 01:15:20 meroko was surprisingly easy to set up... 01:15:31 (Not, I hasten to add, my own "Nevermore" TI Explorer emulator, as while it did end up booting lisp I never finished up with things like usable keyboard emulation and so on.) 01:16:14 mon_key: So to you, Lisp doesn't really have lists, only meta-lists? 01:16:46 beach: I guess so yeah. 01:17:09 On the other hand, one of the original TI guys got interested in emulation, and used the I/O stuff from nevermore and wrote his own CPU core. 01:17:19 mon_key: OK, yes, then insert a "meta" in front of anything I wrote (and of almost every word in the Common Lisp HyperSpec too) 01:18:01 ... The "MetaCommon MetaLisp MetaHyperSpec"? 01:18:08 exactly. 01:18:16 meta is Good(TM) so that could only improve CL 01:18:25 mon_key: So we need a meta API for meta buffers containing meta lines of meta objects. 01:19:03 meta lines of meta objects even 01:19:16 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.230.32] has joined #lisp 01:19:21 *_3b* wonders if that is a programming interface for meta-programs, or a meta-interface for application programming 01:19:33 beach: awhile back i did the GTK tutorial and one of the examples fails horribly 01:19:39 <_3b> s/meta-programs/meta-applications/ 01:19:41 I want a meta computer 01:20:01 *Odin-* wants less metaphysics. 01:20:23 er. gtk-demo 01:20:25 I want a meta burger atm 01:20:46 "I never metaphor I didn't like"? 01:20:50 jsoft: I could do with a meta-list of burgers 01:22:02 <_3b> nyef: wouldn't "like" make it a simile instead of a metaphor? 01:22:27 its the text widget demo around "you can put widgets in the buffer: Here's a button:..." 01:23:30 _3b: No, not like/similar, like/appreciate. 01:23:46 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:47 clicking the "Click Me" buffer returns a new window which says "This buffer is shared by a set of nested text views. Don't do this in real applications, please" 01:24:19 Well that is usefull 01:25:41 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx56-2b-23.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:03 Obv. among lispers a comparison of a "lisp buffer" to a "GTK+ buffer" is liable prone to derision but I can't help but wonder how a lispy approach would do better without something "meta-ish" mixed in. 01:32:04 jsoft: you didn't understant the most fundamental theorem of computer science. 01:32:11 Any computer IS a meta computer! 01:32:30 mon_key: I am sorry, but I don't think any buffer protocol has any business deciding how the objects in it are to be displayed, if at all. 01:33:15 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 01:34:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:34:03 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:12 looks like its from demos/gtk-demo/textview.c with gtk_text_buffer_get_start_iter and gtk_text_buffer_insert 01:40:06 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159931.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:41:54 beach: I've no idea if the gtk+ stuff is good or bad design... I do get the impression that wrt editor implementations a buffer protocol must be pretty fundamental. Prob. Emacs for example has gotten much of it wrong in so much as it must maintain backwards compatibility. What I'm curious to understand is how in the absence of a C oriented approach what aspects of a buffer protocol _should_ be present? 01:44:06 Joreji_ [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:44:32 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:44:40 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:45:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:43 mon_key: personally, my approach regarding tree is related a little to methods used for storing multidimensional data in speed-efficient ways 01:51:57 pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 01:51:59 (R-Tree, in particular, and its variants) 01:53:21 p_l|backup: Ok reading wiki :) 01:53:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:55:09 it is, of course, the display-specific interface. Higher level protocols should be used to manipulate the data, ultimately translating to the display protocol 01:55:28 mon_key: I suspect that what you are calling 'buffers' really boils down to 'text + cursors'. 01:57:38 mon_key: In any case, I suggest thinking primarily in terms of operations. 01:58:14 Zhivago: Not necessarily, only that this is how/what they are typically referred to implemented. Im rather much more curious as to the alternative data-structures that don't limit implementations in the same way as an array with a fill pointer :) 01:58:37 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:03 mon_key: Think about the operations you want to do. 01:59:53 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:00:03 I wan't to attach code that triggers events around text, images, sound, cursor motion and on multiple planes :) 02:00:34 Ah. You want a web browser -- why didn't you say so? 02:00:47 -!- ldunn [ldunn@unaffiliated/baddog144] has left #lisp 02:01:15 Zhivago: they are rather inefficient, though... 02:01:42 Zhivago: No, not at all1 02:01:50 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.58] has left #lisp 02:02:01 mon_key: That's what web browsers do. 02:02:34 not on multiple planes 02:02:52 Sure they do. 02:03:01 You have a z-axis and everything. 02:03:18 Then suffice it to say my imagination has outpaced your assertion :) 02:03:58 longfin_ [~longfin@49.24.213.214] has joined #lisp 02:04:05 Zhivago: given the way web browsers implement it all, I'd rather start from scratch, *especially* without DOM 02:04:15 well, XML-style DOM 02:04:16 The DOM is the best bit. 02:04:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-88.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:04:41 -!- lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:04:57 whats that company in Mass. that the guile scheme guys work for -- that did the effects for "minority report"? 02:05:03 Zhivago: I'm not against DOM in general, more like against the way the whole thing is made together in web browsers (even more after reading some material about efficient JS) 02:05:13 Thats what i want :) 02:05:22 -!- longfin [~longfin@175.218.77.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:34 mon: You are gibbering. I suggest sitting down and thinking until you get something coherent. 02:05:42 mon_key: minority report interface is an UX nightmare 02:06:24 Zhivago: I'm serious. And more than one of the guile scheme people work for this company. 02:06:29 the 10finger system was much better, and isn't all that hard to implement (though you'd need to find a 10 discrete points capacitive touchscreen) 02:07:06 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:18 Oblong 02:07:26 mon_key: You may be serious, but you are no-longer saying meaningful things. 02:07:59 My impression is that the Oblong people are using the equivalent of multi-dimensional keymaps 02:08:47 danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 02:08:59 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.60] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:09:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:15 Zhivago: this is the gibberish to which i refer: http://oblong.com/article/0866JqfNrFg1NeuK.html 02:13:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:54 beach: care to give spectacle a try? (or should I call it spectacl?) 02:16:56 p_l|backup: people are actively developping nightmares. 02:17:06 And after all, don't we need all to have more exercise? 02:19:04 Guest27370 [~c@66.233.49.136] has joined #lisp 02:19:14 pjb: that interface is in the "after few hours user destroyed the device out of frustration" ^_- 02:20:15 p_l|backup: It does have some applicability to the R-tree thing. 02:20:50 sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:59 mon_key: normal UIs these day,with containers, are actually a sort of variant of R-Tree 02:23:11 p_l|backup: w/r/t gui components or the data they present? 02:23:38 wrt the components. The data itself should be stored in a way meaningful to the data 02:23:49 danlei` [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 02:24:23 why? 02:24:48 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:24:51 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 02:25:02 it just happens that for an editor making the datastructure close to the buffer protocol I described made sense 02:25:29 mon_key: because, ultimately, you're manipulating data, not drawing pretty images (unless you're making a demoscene entry) 02:26:46 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:05 lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:45 p_l|backup: From what little I can gather of R-tree coupling the two would make sense for an editor. What I'm asking with the "why?" is with lisp we have this unbelievably terse syntax and it works wonderfully. And in the same way that lisp doesn't require separating code/data why should the domain of UI be different or any more verbose in its separation of data and interface? 02:29:01 pholasek [~pholasek_@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has joined #lisp 02:29:22 Hrm. I don't like how :initform works, to be honest. It seems odd to special-case lambdas. It'd be more intuitive to always evaluate the :initform value. 02:29:38 So instead of :initform (1 2 3), you'd write :initform '(1 2 3) 02:29:53 quotemstr: how are lambdas special cased? 02:30:53 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:05 Ah, nevermind. Read that wrong. 02:31:18 -!- pholasek [~pholasek_@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:15 sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:42 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.] 02:42:56 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:43:08 longfin [~longfin@49.25.80.6] has joined #lisp 02:44:35 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@49.24.213.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:47 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-76-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:48:35 -!- Guest45343 [~longshot@180.184.9.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:49:12 mon_key: the R-trees aren't necessarily how the data are stored, but rather how they're indexed 02:49:16 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:22 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:49:23 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 02:50:17 slyrus: Yes. a look at spatial-trees helped clue me in more. 02:52:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:52:33 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has joined #lisp 02:52:44 leo2007 [~leo@125.33.176.110] has joined #lisp 02:54:36 Though with all the b+tree-ification going round it could be 02:54:39 mon_key: ahh... finally read the article. g-speak *is* interesting, yes. Your mention of minority report made it harder to understand what you wanted. 02:55:04 :) Not complete gibberish then eh? 02:56:11 mon_key: the way it was implemented in minority report still is annoying 02:57:38 though, have you seen Earth: Final Conflict? 02:58:59 No what is the relation? 03:00:04 The Augur character? 03:00:29 mon_key: the interface used by alien systems (the non-neural one) 03:00:39 http://oblong.com/images/fullteam17.jpg <--- pretty old school there :) 03:02:00 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.25.80.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.224.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:05:07 FWIW I doubt Oblong will be the ones to bring it to the masses. There isn't much iphone-ifiably killer app'd. 03:06:53 mon_key: frankly speaking, it's not an interface for the masses in my opinion. Not for next few decades, unless we get sudden breakthrough combining several ideas together *and* applications of them 03:08:15 p_l|backup: Yep. And by the time the corporate needs are accounted for its doubtful that the idea genesis will remain. 03:09:13 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 03:09:55 though the pointer wand and glove funnily reminded me of the starship command&control system from Banner of the Stars 03:11:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:11 So for example i'm not keen on the touchscreen as interface b/c it requires the user to be within 2.5 ft of the screen. But i do believe there is utility in gestural manipulation of data. Likewise i find the general flatness of the data presentation limiting w/r/t to what I might actually want to manipulate gesturally. 03:16:03 alama [~alama@a81-84-122-186.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 03:16:24 -!- alama [~alama@a81-84-122-186.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 03:16:29 Heh. I was wondering earlier today about the webcam just above the screen on this system, and if it would be possible to determine from that image stream where on the screen I'm looking at any given time. 03:16:51 Finding programatic idioms for bringing relevant data to the context of a gesture space seems relevant to how the "buffer" is given access to the data 03:17:42 nyef: Aren't the NYU people working on that? 03:17:59 I don't know. Are they? 03:18:33 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:07 I was just messing about with xawtv and noticed that I could see my eyes fairly well in the video, and that they were observably different depending on where I was looking at the time. 03:19:12 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:19:20 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 03:19:44 Someonw at NYU was doing facial recognition stuff with a highly DSL'd lisp 03:20:09 (And, yes, part of that messing about did involve dragging the xawtv window around the screen so I could still have the image visible while I moved my focus relative to the camera.) 03:20:21 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:42 Not so much facial recognition, although that'd have to be a part of it, but being able to tell where someone is looking. 03:21:34 Whatever i'm remembering involved motion based facial recognition 03:21:35 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:21:36 (Another fun possibility might be to do it in reverse. Track a fingertip via the webcam and have the eyes of a head model on the screen track it.) 03:21:45 -!- Guest27370 [~c@66.233.49.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:10 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:39 I imagine the former would be more useful 03:25:46 *_3b* thought there was eye tracking webcam stuff available already 03:26:11 Perhaps, but the latter could also be interesting. 03:26:25 <_3b> 3d xeyes? 03:27:19 More realistic talking heads for conversational interfaces? 03:27:43 <_3b> or at least creepier, so worth the effort either way :) 03:27:51 Heh. Yeah, that works. 03:27:55 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:28:00 <_3b> hmm, opengazer might be what i was remembering 03:28:06 <_3b> or some random opencv project 03:29:05 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:16 <_3b> or maybe http://13-49.blogspot.com/2009/09/eye-region-tracking-in-common-lisp.html 03:29:24 this isn't what I remember but it is interesting http://movement.nyu.edu/GreenDot/ 03:31:30 certainly relevant to r+trees and gestural data. but is it lisp? 03:32:13 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:37:02 Mmm. Some neat stuff there, but none of it seems quite what I was thinking about earlier. 03:37:04 Oh well. 03:39:38 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:00 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 03:42:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@125.33.176.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:06 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:14 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.253.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:43:48 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:46 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:45:19 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:45:24 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has joined #lisp 03:46:38 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:43 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-180-202.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all] 03:57:42 xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.217] has joined #lisp 04:00:56 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:03:52 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@176-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:17 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.34] has joined #lisp 04:04:27 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:08:41 beach: around? 04:08:42 wliao [~wliao@114.255.41.137] has joined #lisp 04:11:44 -!- wliao [~wliao@114.255.41.137] has quit [Client Quit] 04:11:56 seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 04:16:17 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:13 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 04:22:49 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:23:39 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:24:54 hrm... I guess blindly once-only'ing things isn't necessarily a good idea 04:30:57 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:37:04 leo2007 [~leo@123.116.112.244] has joined #lisp 04:37:07 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:08 slyrus: Yes, I'm here. 04:37:55 hey beach, I think I figured out my problem. I thought there was something hinky with the define-setf-expander, so I expanded image-var, but the problem was that the once-only was killing the cltl2:variable-information stuff 04:38:32 which was causing us to take the slow path in the pixel setf-expander, upon which the compiler was complaining because it then had conflicting type declarations 04:38:34 fixed now 04:38:58 Congratulations. I think I missed that episode, though. 04:39:36 heh 04:39:49 hell you wrote the damn expander in the first place :) 04:40:08 when you get a chance, check out https://github.com/slyrus/spectacle 04:40:49 I did! Wow! I am impressed myself! :) 04:42:09 Hey, a CLIM application! Nice! 04:42:24 heh 04:46:46 POW 04:48:13 it would be nice if it were more responsive -- the affine transformation itself seems to take about 1 second when rotating the image (for a reasonably sized image anyway), but there's more like a 3-4 second delay... not sure where that's coming from 04:50:28 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:52:09 slyrus: Does Opticl require asdf2? Is Opticl not in Quicklisp? 04:52:29 it's not in quicklisp (yet) 04:52:33 and I haven't tried it with asdf1 04:52:44 what implementation are you using that still has asdf1? 04:53:19 It complains about cl-source-file, but perhaps it is just a package problem. 04:53:28 yay for quicklisp 04:54:09 beach: what complains? sbcl? 04:54:24 slyrus: Yes, when I load optcl.asd. 04:54:37 hrm... what version of SBCL are you using? 04:54:37 er, opticl.asd 04:54:39 wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:3310:1e75:8ff:fe60:3240] has joined #lisp 04:54:49 1.0.44 04:55:09 try deleting that default-component-class line and see if that fixes it. 04:55:32 I think :file should default to cl-source-file anyway, I was just using that because I ran across it recently and it sounded like a reasonable thing 04:55:38 but 1.0.44 uses ASDF2, no? 04:55:44 Yes that fixes the problem. 04:55:59 ok. doesn't 1.0.44 have CLX problems, or is that just 1.0.45? 04:56:20 Just 1.0.45 I think. 04:56:39 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has joined #lisp 04:56:47 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Changing host] 04:56:47 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:57:06 Ok. I think we lost a release in there somewhere around january or so too... 05:01:48 yes, it's safe to use 1.0.46 (: 05:02:52 and it's almost freeze time! yay! 05:05:48 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 05:08:45 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:25 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 05:10:32 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has quit [Changing host] 05:10:32 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:26:16 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180099091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:27:32 Does cl-ppcre explicitly store the entire backtracking search tree? 05:29:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:49 Hunden [~Hunden@e180100043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:31:57 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:37 Syberia [sbc@90.189.178.36] has joined #lisp 05:34:18 is there any GSoC mentors for clisp? 05:35:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:38:35 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:10 NayanShah [~nayan@triband-mum-59.182.2.122.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 05:42:51 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8140CB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:47:15 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 05:49:02 -!- lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:00 Syberia: CLISP, the implementation of Common Lisp? 05:57:16 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:58:04 Syberia: Often, LispNYC is a mentor organization for Common Lisp projects. 05:58:19 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 06:00:11 -!- wliao [~wliao@2001:da8:215:3310:1e75:8ff:fe60:3240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:13 <_3b> they don't seem to have made it this year, but i think gnu mentioned lisp in some form or another 06:01:39 beach yes, gnu.org mentioned gnu clisp as gsoc project 06:01:47 _3b: The FSF is a mentoring organization? 06:02:02 Yeah, they're mentoring for Guile (Scheme) too, IIRC 06:02:24 <_3b> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2011/gnu 06:03:01 <_3b> (http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2011 for full list i think) 06:04:59 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:28 longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has joined #lisp 06:08:43 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 06:08:43 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:59 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has joined #lisp 06:19:49 Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:27:35 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:34 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:28:58 dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:32:55 binghe [~binghe@114.113.197.132] has joined #lisp 06:36:09 -!- binghe [~binghe@114.113.197.132] has left #lisp 06:38:38 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has joined #lisp 06:41:07 should a (mcclim) sliders value-changed callback get triggered after a setf gadget-value or only when the value is manipulated by-hand, as it were? 06:41:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.116.112.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:43:56 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:55:06 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:01:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:01:50 -!- coffeemug [~coffeemug@adsl-76-254-59-240.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:02:24 jmr_ [~jmr@pool-108-28-74-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:14 coffeemug [~coffeemug@adsl-76-254-59-240.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:26 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.149.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:12 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:55 Weeee 07:14:12 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:12 -!- NayanShah [~nayan@triband-mum-59.182.2.122.mtnl.net.in] has left #lisp 07:27:04 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-107.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:30:45 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:30:49 -!- jmr_ [~jmr@pool-108-28-74-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:31:36 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:33:28 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:33:29 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:00 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:11 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 07:40:06 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:53:27 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:04:06 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.193.4] has joined #lisp 08:08:33 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:09:02 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:07 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 08:09:32 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-19-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:11:07 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-18-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:23:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.193.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:27:50 o/ 08:39:50 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 08:46:01 -!- Zeiris [~Zeiris@S010600a0d1423e73.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:48:20 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 08:58:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:16 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:51 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:07:17 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755ec7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:45 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:03 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:17:06 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:25 what was that xach's CL reference link webthingie? 09:19:48 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:20:00 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has joined #lisp 09:24:20 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:49 loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has joined #lisp 09:28:12 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:31:46 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:33:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has joined #lisp 09:33:40 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:37:16 Zeiris [~Zeiris@S010600a0d1423e73.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:18 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 09:38:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:39:11 So there's a Lisp compiler for the Erlang VM. I'm good at Erlang but really really new to Lisp - I can implement arbitrary Erlang modules in it, and really try and leverage Lisp's flexible syntax to try and fill gaps in Erlang. 09:39:15 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:37 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39:40 Could anyone name some cool examples of simple-ish (and thus implementable by me) DSLs in Lisp? 09:39:57 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:40:32 Stuff for doing imperative early-return programming in a functional language? Really elegant and efficient XML/HTML templating? Beautiful SQL/other database interfaces? 09:41:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:31 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:43:09 Well, those examples are not very specific. Therefore they're already implemented in libraries. If you want a Domain Specific Language, you first need a specific Domain. What's your domain? 09:43:22 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:22 Erlang's used for web backend stuff, robust parallel distributed software. So any of the last things I listed would be awesome to try and implement using LFE, since Erlang syntax is a bit... poor. 09:44:38 Zeiris: for example, you could explore the domain of model trains. Design a DSL to describe model railways, with semaphores, etc, and exclusion constraints. Generate code to drive the semaphores automatically. 09:44:57 I'm trying to figure out where to find good examples of what a good Lisp DSL looks like/can do, to speed up my learning. 09:44:58 Zeiris: since you already have a lisp compiler, you only need to fetch the libraries and compile them! 09:45:19 If you want to see code, you only need to fetch the libraries and read them! 09:45:41 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 09:46:03 What are some Lisp library repositories? :E 09:46:21 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-41.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:46:23 Nowadays, that would be quicklisp. 09:46:35 Otherwise you may browse http://common-lisp.net/ and http://cliki.net 09:46:58 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has joined #lisp 09:47:06 http://www.quicklisp.org 09:47:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has quit [Changing host] 09:47:06 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:47:22 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:26 Thanks, that should be a good start. 09:47:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:50:01 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has joined #lisp 09:50:08 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Changing host] 09:50:09 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:51:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:52:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:57 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:53:55 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has joined #lisp 09:54:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Changing host] 09:54:09 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:57:31 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A26D6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:58:24 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:58:38 lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:59:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:00:07 -!- seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:40 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:10 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 10:07:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-111.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:14 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 10:11:32 jnoos [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 10:12:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 -!- lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:15:08 -!- setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:03 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 10:16:29 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 10:16:35 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 10:18:20 -!- jnoos [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:21:23 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:24:21 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28:26 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:27 longfin [~longfin@49.25.80.6] has joined #lisp 10:30:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:27 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:32:27 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:32:27 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:36:44 nikodemus: l1sp.org? 10:36:52 Onyxyte_ [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:34 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:39:20 jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:58 thanks! 10:42:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-113.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:43:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:16 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has joined #lisp 10:45:24 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has quit [Changing host] 10:45:24 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:48:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@90-156-22-132.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:49:00 how do you fine-format lisp code when publish it on web? Is there a css for this or some other tool? 10:49:28 Emacs prolly does it 10:49:49 you mean screenshot from emacs? 10:50:09 no 10:50:10 I want lisp code to be formatted with html and css 10:50:21 I realize that. 10:50:28 Im just guessing that emacs could do it. 10:50:33 -!- jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:50:35 Somehow. 10:50:59 oh, emacs must be able to do it, yes 10:51:03 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:46 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:54 dmytrish: There's a way for emacs to save a buffer as HTML and preserve the appearance of syntax coloring. I can't remember the name of the command, though. 10:53:06 thanks 10:53:16 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 10:53:18 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:27 htmlfontify-buffer 10:54:01 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 10:54:19 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:55:29 -!- longfin [~longfin@49.25.80.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:18 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:22 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:02:45 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:02:45 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:29 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 11:08:28 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 11:13:47 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:17:56 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:18:51 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:25 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has joined #lisp 11:21:33 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.218] has quit [Changing host] 11:21:33 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:24:57 *Xach* hopes to make a dist update today 11:31:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:32:43 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:16 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 11:34:53 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 11:35:50 How come quicklisp places "~/quicklisp/quicklisp" in ASDF:*CENTRAL-REGISTRY*? That directory doesn't contain the ASDF definition files. 11:36:39 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:38:46 <_8david> it contains 1 asd file 11:38:53 Ah, just noticed that. 11:39:36 <_8david> otherwise ql uses a search function. 11:40:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:18 I guess what I'm really after is why SLIME can't autocomplete the ASDF systems loaded by quicklisp, which seems to boil down to the use of the search function. 11:40:47 Yes, it would require some extra glue. 11:40:49 As quicklisp never puts the true locations of the asd in *CENTRAL-REGISTRY* 11:40:53 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has joined #lisp 11:41:00 Ok. 11:41:01 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.78] has quit [Changing host] 11:41:01 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 Thanks. 11:41:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-47.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:41:25 quicklisp has a way to enumerate installed systems and available systems independently of asdf. 11:41:34 that could be wired into slime completion, maybe. 11:41:49 Yeah. That's probably the way to go. 11:42:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:42:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:42:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:42:52 (ql:installed-releases) ? 11:43:24 (ql-dist:installed-systems t) 11:43:31 Ah. Thanks. 11:44:44 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:45:41 <_8david> I'm sure a new protocol extension to query search functions for completion results would fit right in with ASDF though. 11:45:56 <_8david> It would only need a new config file. 11:46:45 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 11:46:48 aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 the search functions can tell you if "foo" will find a system, but not "what are all the systems you can find?" or "what systems start with 'f'?" 11:47:06 is there some way to lookup a variable given a symbol? 11:47:09 At least not as currently designed. 11:47:17 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-109-65-185-85.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:47:20 if, say, x is 42 and y is 'x, how to get the value of x, given y? 11:47:48 clhs: symbol-value 11:47:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_5.htm 11:48:09 <_8david> yes, I was thinking that Fare could be convinced to change the current design. 11:48:56 I think Fare would want someone else to step forward to maintain ASDF and then change the design... 11:49:34 (let ((x 42) (y 'x)) (symbol-value x)) <-- what am i doing wrong here? 11:49:39 ("variable X has no value") 11:50:10 (let* 11:50:22 (let* assigns variables in sequence 11:50:27 and should do what you want here. 11:50:30 doesn't work either 11:50:35 lies 11:50:38 haha 11:50:40 you're looking for (symbol-value y) 11:50:46 incandenza: yeah, sure, that's what i typed 11:50:50 No, it doesn't work on lexical variables. 11:51:00 Xach: is there something which does? 11:51:01 There is no function you can call to get the lexical value of x. 11:51:08 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:51:11 blargh 11:51:32 If your solution requires that to work, think of a new solution. 11:51:55 is there a defsetf which doesn't assign the arguments to lexical variables? 11:53:45 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:57:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:02:17 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:02:17 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:53 Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 12:03:26 -!- tr3x_ [~tr3x@93-136-124-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:14 aiju: there's a way to make it work conformingly: define your own LET macro to track of the symbols that are bound. 12:04:39 There are also sometimes implementation specific ways to do it. 12:05:02 aiju: but the point of lexical scope, is that everything about it is known even before the compiler reads the source! 12:05:10 YOU know it, since YOU wrote it! 12:05:28 tr3x [~tr3x@78-1-163-90.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:08:21 so anyone can recommend a common lisp reference? 12:08:29 clhs is the reference. 12:08:41 http:///www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 12:09:00 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:00 But perhaps you should read a tutorial first? 12:09:11 euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:27 bad_alloc pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120652 12:09:33 i've read let over lambda ;P 12:10:11 http://cliki.net will have links to several other books and tutorials. 12:11:24 bad_alloc: what about (set-difference sequence elements) ? 12:12:22 pjb: answered before i even asked a question, great :D 12:12:35 that does the trick thanks. 12:12:58 is CLISP's system::store documented somewhere? 12:13:26 No, you should not try to watch it doubly! 12:13:43 huh? 12:13:47 First it's in the package SYSTEM, so it's purely implementation dependant, and you should not be concerned by it. 12:14:05 well, i get that out of a macro expansion and want to understand what's going on 12:14:13 Next, it's not exported from the package (hence the :: instead of :) so it's not public and you really should not be concerned by it! 12:14:22 aiju: read the documentation of the macro! 12:14:39 well I wrote it ;P 12:14:49 (otherwise, if you're really currious, you can read the sources of clisp). 12:14:58 Then use macroexpand-1 instead of macroexpand. 12:15:21 is there macroexpand-n? 12:15:41 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:15:57 Implementation dependant, or found in libraries ( #+clisp ext:expand-form ; slime or swank have a macroexpand-all thingy). 12:17:50 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-76-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:19:11 you can macroexpand recursively manually inside the *slime-macroexpansion* buffer 12:19:58 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-76-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:23:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:41 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:27:51 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.65.185.85] has joined #lisp 12:28:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:33:06 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #lisp 12:33:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 12:33:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:34:46 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:04 -!- beach [~user@116.118.73.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:35:39 sellout [~Adium@dhcp64-134-70-184.ssaf.orl.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:05 -!- sellout is now known as Guest33503 12:36:07 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:36:37 urandom__ [~user@p548A31E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:42 -!- Guest33503 is now known as sellout_ 12:36:43 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:37:08 Bronsa [~brace@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:43:32 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:45:21 frx [~4e01a35a@ns1.smartcall.bg] has joined #lisp 12:45:55 hi. is there a scheme's string-replace equivalent in lisp standard lib or should I roll my own? 12:46:00 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:47:28 frx: How does the scheme string-replace work? 12:48:14 (string-replace "foobar" "bar" "baz") => "foobaz" 12:48:45 replace 12:49:24 Oh, confused with srfi-13 string-replace. 12:49:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:51:59 so is there no equivalent? should I look into some cross-implementation/platform lib for common functions like that before rolling my own 12:52:36 I would prefer if it was non-destructive btw 12:54:28 Bronsa [~brace@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:55:16 <_8david> personally I'm usually just going for ppcre:regex-replace for these cases if "bar" is constant 12:57:26 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:51 glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:20 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:37 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:00:18 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:01:47 -!- aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:07:53 adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-44.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 13:09:20 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:10:35 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:39 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:11:58 Odaym [~unix@212.36.209.4] has joined #lisp 13:12:13 lusory [~bart@bb121-6-27-74.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:13:05 is MIT/GNU Scheme only on the command line? 13:13:27 -!- loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:32 Odaym: There ex-PLT, now Racket, if you want an integrated GUI/IDE and all that. 13:14:47 for MIT Scheme 13:14:48 right? 13:16:10 ask on #scheme. ISTR some SWANK-like module for a couple of implementations. There's also scheme-mode and ilisp. 13:16:24 no idea what you just said 13:16:33 off to #scheme then 13:17:43 there is no cadddr? rip-off! 13:19:05 oh no, the error is somewhere else 13:19:17 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 13:19:46 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:55 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 13:25:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:26:44 Yawn 13:28:42 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 13:29:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:29:47 seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 13:31:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:33:31 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:35:48 how do you recommend handling this? (let* ((foo (func)) (bar (+ 1 foo)). if fucn returns nil I am getting error on (+ 1 foo) 13:36:10 (bar (and foo (1+ foo))) 13:36:25 or possibly use alexandria:when-let* 13:37:47 ok thanks 13:41:17 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:41:18 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 13:42:17 -!- spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:47:43 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:47:48 benny [~benny@i577A21F0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:00 ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:42 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.205.158] has joined #lisp 13:50:45 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:52:48 -!- ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:37 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:53:58 Bronsa [~brace@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:54:37 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:55:08 euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:37 -!- sellout_ is now known as sellout 14:00:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:43 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:04:56 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 14:04:57 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 14:04:57 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:06:58 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.59] has joined #lisp 14:08:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:08:26 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:09:51 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.15] has joined #lisp 14:12:29 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has joined #lisp 14:12:40 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:13:01 euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:14:44 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-119-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:43 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:02 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.59] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:18:08 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:28 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:21:16 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.60] has joined #lisp 14:21:23 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:28 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 14:21:29 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:44 morning 14:22:05 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-115-178.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:40 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 14:23:17 wanderingelf [4817e03a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.58] has joined #lisp 14:25:50 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:27:22 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:31:11 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:08 francogrex [~user@109.130.110.222] has joined #lisp 14:33:00 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:33:04 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:12 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:34:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:35:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.230.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:57 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:39:04 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.59] has joined #lisp 14:39:40 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.110.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:35 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:37 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:42:23 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 14:45:54 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:49 -!- frx [~4e01a35a@ns1.smartcall.bg] has left #lisp 14:54:07 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:21 jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:34 yech... how can I make it so (esp. labelled) horizontal sliders don't take up so much vertical space in mcclim? 14:56:43 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-awznzhnhfsxwbuwy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:57:44 (scroll-bar-mode -1) ? 14:57:51 Oops, that's in emacs ;-) 14:58:04 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:58:09 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:39 -!- fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:59:13 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:21 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host79-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:24 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:54 -!- sellout [~Adium@dhcp64-134-70-184.ssaf.orl.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:13 nikodemus: what do you think about comitting this to slime? http://dwim.hu/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=slime;a=commitdiff;h=80c65ca84bea9f21f5f7394ecde20fdd10dc9e2f 15:02:54 my commit bit was taken away, and people still can't (asdf:load-op :swank) not depend on it... and then come to my when try to set up our stuff... 15:03:04 s/not/nor/ 15:03:08 koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 15:03:29 attila_lendvai: people can't list swank in the :depends-on of a system? 15:04:08 Xach: not without making sure that swank.asd is added to their asdf registry, even when swank is already loaded... 15:04:48 attila_lendvai: Oh, I see. When I want to use swank, I add it to the central registry, like any other library. 15:05:09 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-njisjhhddpmsuqmi] has joined #lisp 15:06:15 Xach: the problem is that you can load one version of swank, and a :depends-on can reload a different version on top of it if the configuration gets out of sync... not to mention making it unnecessarily hard to test stuff with multiple versions of slime 15:06:33 but helmut is proud of being asdf-free... http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/slime.git/commit/c72fa5b8171483c13c1df5ce7f5def0a76768605 15:06:54 as if it wasn't used by about 99.9% of the slime users 15:08:22 *Xach* has not yet run into that problem 15:08:37 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:51 *Xach* would like it if slime honored the current bindings of *load-verbose* and *compile-verbose* though. 15:10:55 oh, I see... from the TODO section: "the slider needs a total overhaul" 15:11:32 -!- tc [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:09 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:52 attila_lendvai: i don't expect that anyone would complain, since it's in the asdf contrib 15:13:21 i'll put it on my TODO 15:13:44 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-180-202.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:04 G'morning all. 15:14:13 nikodemus: thanks! it's a little piece of code, but I will also run stuff with it a bit more... 15:14:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:45 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:15 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:56 tc_ [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:39 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:20:44 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.65.185.85] has quit 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#lisp 15:45:58 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:46:11 pholasek [~pholasek_@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has joined #lisp 15:46:53 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.59] has left #lisp 15:52:51 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 15:54:23 good morning 15:59:48 sellout [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:10 -!- pholasek [~pholasek_@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has quit [Quit: pholasek] 16:01:48 pholasek [~pholasek_@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has joined #lisp 16:03:25 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:03:29 lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:03 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 16:06:18 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-138-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:03 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:30 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:27 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:44 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 16:15:48 daniel [~daniel@p5B327FAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:42 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B3261DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:16:50 euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:15 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CF219.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:30 silenius [~silenus@p5494740F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:23 -!- jleija is now known as jleija_away 16:28:11 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:54 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:26 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:33:58 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 16:36:09 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:50 Xach: regarding easyE's earlier query about slime and quicklisp completion. The set of current dists for a given QL release is a constant yes? 16:37:07 mon_key: No. 16:38:12 mon_key: It's not even centrally managed. 16:39:33 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has joined #lisp 16:40:42 So quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/systems.txt is not an enumeration of current dists? 16:41:25 mon_key: no. 16:41:46 mon_key: it's an index of the systems provided by a dist named "quicklisp" 16:43:09 c|mell [~cmell@213.164.30.37] has joined #lisp 16:43:14 *sellout* notes that the software and main dist both having the same name was a little confusing when I first came across it. 16:44:04 presumably quicklisp/dists/*/systems.txt is an enumeration? 16:44:11 OK - so my idea isn't suitably extensible. I was going to suggest that the quick and dirty solution would be to simply dump a table enumerating systems to a file in the quicklisp directory with elisp hash-table reader syntax e.g.: #s(hash-table size test equal data ("" "KEY" {...})) 16:44:32 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:44 LiamH: It's an enumeration of the dists you have setup for that installation  not an enumeration of all dists. 16:45:03 sellout: of course 16:45:07 mon_key: you can get that info from (ql-dist:provided-systems t) 16:45:09 I've been using such a scheme for about 8-9 months and find it to be quite useful. Esp. when i dont' have a connection in emacs to a running lisp 16:45:27 you could use that as the basis for creating a static file. 16:45:43 Xach: My solution lets me query with an emacs regexp via M-x :) 16:48:03 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:21 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:24 Has anyone seen futures? (like in guile and racket) 16:49:31 I quite like it 16:50:50 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spacemanaki] 16:51:13 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-13-34.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:51:43 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:06 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:54 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:39 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 17:10:08 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:36 dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:15 -!- pholasek [~pholasek_@cust-144.ktknet.cz] has quit [Quit: pholasek] 17:11:48 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-44.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:13 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:13:41 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.253.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:16:32 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-119-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:28 vilsonvieira [~vilson@h08100.ifsc.usp.br] has joined #lisp 17:20:49 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 17:21:50 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 ah, more fun with clim "Note: I believe the sample implementation in the spec is incorrect." 17:25:22 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:29 and "Now this is totally bogus." 17:30:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:38 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:51 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 17:36:11 -!- glidesurfer [~rosario@77-64-171-36.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:36:52 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.17.75] has joined #lisp 17:37:28 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 pnq [~nick@ACA39E2B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:57 -!- c|mell [~cmell@213.164.30.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:21 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:38 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 17:46:56 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.234] has joined #lisp 17:48:02 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:49:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:29 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:00 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-47-213.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:09 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.234] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:00:53 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:29 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:08 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:14 -!- Odaym [~unix@212.36.209.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:46 hi, I tried to run (format nil "~@[non-null: ~{x,~}~]" '(1 2 3)),but it yields in a infinity loop both in clisp and sbcl 18:05:13 what is wrong? or is it a posible bug? 18:05:26 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 it works fine on ECL 18:10:37 davazp: your not consuming anything in the ~{ ? 18:10:49 x --> ~x possibly 18:11:20 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:59 fckStick [~fckStick@173-21-234-231.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:14 though it run as times as elements. I can do ~* then to fix it. Thanks bhyde 18:16:09 (format nil "~@[non-null: ~{~x~^,~}~]" '(1 2 3)) 18:18:45 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:52 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:19:59 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:18 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:25:26 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:46 youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 18:31:32 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:36 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:16 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:32:46 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:35:18 -!- youguy [~youguy@59.pool85-56-15.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:38:06 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:20 hrm... how do I make floor/truncate/round go fast again? 18:42:48 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-236.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:18 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-193-241-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:46:41 -!- seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47:21 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:56:32 koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 18:57:47 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Quit: alama] 18:57:56 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 19:00:01 -!- lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:02 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 roadt [~roadt@60.168.81.255] has joined #lisp 19:07:08 or, put slightly differently, how can I call float/truncate/round from inside a (speed 3) declaration with a double-float as the argument, and not get a nasty note from the compiler? 19:09:23 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:10:07 What does the spec for string-trim mean by "All of these functions observe the fill pointer." 19:11:23 slyrus: What note do you get? 19:12:13 note: forced to do full call unable to do inline float coercion (cost 5) because: The first argument is a INTEGER, not a (SIGNED-BYTE 64). 19:13:10 Is the argument actually an INTEGER and not an (S-B 64)? 19:13:39 no, the argument's a double-float 19:13:45 Wait, you're passing a double-float, and the compiler thinks it's an integer? 19:15:31 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.234] has joined #lisp 19:15:43 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-119-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:54 oops, copy paste error 19:16:59 let me paste the message... 19:17:35 slyrus pasted "sbcl compiler notes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120665 19:23:25 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:21 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:27:03 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:10 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:33 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:36 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.69.193] has joined #lisp 19:28:48 If I STRING-LEFT-TRIM a sting with a fill pointer beyond the trimmed string should the returned string still satisfy ARRAY-HAS-FILL-POINTER-P? 19:29:19 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA81.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:03 slyrus: Looks like you're getting at least some compiler transforms firing, but it can't prove that the output will be in range for the VOP it's trying to use. 19:35:06 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:35:28 slyrus: What's the value of +epsilon+, and the range involved in oldy ? 19:36:00 (defconstant +epsilon+ 0.00001d0) 19:36:09 oldy should be a double-float 19:36:53 here's the code in question: https://github.com/slyrus/opticl/blob/master/transform.lisp#L207 19:37:23 Yes, but double-floats are mandated to have at least eight bits of exponent. 19:37:51 ... And I'm not quite sure where I'm going with that. 19:38:46 ... right, 8 bits of exponent means a fairly large range, and even if we only assume a signed 7-bit exponent that still lets the shift result in a 65-bit integer value. 19:40:00 slyrus: if you want fast truncate, you'll have to specify bounds for oldy 19:40:57 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.60] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:41:35 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:36 IEEE 754 says that $E_{max}$ is 1023, which gives a truncation result maximum width of about 1023 again. 19:42:38 schoene [~mark@cpe-24-93-238-67.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:47 pkhuong: like so? (declare (type (double-float -1000000d0 1000000d0) oldy oldx)) 19:47:00 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:25 -!- schoene [~mark@cpe-24-93-238-67.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:48:10 much better! thanks guys! 19:48:17 spectacle almost feels snappy now 19:50:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:52:09 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.183.9] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.183.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:53 schoene [~mark@cpe-24-93-238-67.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:59 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 19:53:37 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.234] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 19:54:14 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5494740F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:21 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:27 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:44 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C519B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:16 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 20:01:43 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@h08100.ifsc.usp.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:02:11 Achim [~Adium@dslb-188-097-245-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:27 -!- Achim [~Adium@dslb-188-097-245-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:02:45 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:13 -!- algorist_ [~quassel@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:21 Achim [~Adium@dslb-188-097-245-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 mon_key pasted "string-trim and fill-pointer" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120667 20:09:06 mon_key annotated #120667 "CLISP's return value" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120667#1 20:09:14 Could somebody point me to information about http requests and xml processing in lisp? I wonder if there are any default libraries for that kind of work!? I did some first steps in Lisp, but no book covers the connection of Lisp to the "outer world". 20:09:49 minion: drakma 20:09:50 drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp HTTP client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 20:09:57 minion: cxml 20:09:57 cxml: Namespace-aware, validating XML parser with SAX and StAX-like interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/cxml 20:10:46 minion: usocket 20:10:46 usocket: USOCKET is a networking portability layer for BSD-style sockets. http://www.cliki.net/usocket 20:13:01 Achim: also check out http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/ae64a435c3f4d37f/0dfdbaea2806cc81?lnk=gst&q=SAX#0dfdbaea2806cc81 20:13:47 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:54 Achim: And this to: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/40cd6d3ed01f3f80/50ddf7aec9763a2b?lnk=gst&q=html+parse#50ddf7aec9763a2b 20:17:53 thanks! 20:18:42 I found drakma, but it's really hard to get an impression if these tools are used for production or if they are more or less dead 20:18:58 but I'll give them a try  thanks a lot! 20:20:33 Achim: AFAIK each of the referenced systems are production quality. 20:22:34 thanks again! would like to use Lisp in commercial projects, so it's good to know that the libraries exist 20:27:41 algorist [~quassel@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:29:23 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:47 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:36:13 -!- Achim [~Adium@dslb-188-097-245-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:37:19 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:38:01 -!- jleija_away is now known as jleija 20:38:36 -!- koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:40 -!- roadt [~roadt@60.168.81.255] has quit [Quit: ] 20:39:58 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:28 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:45:04 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:46:54 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-117-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:05 -!- schoene [~mark@cpe-24-93-238-67.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:28 gz_ [~gz@142.sub-69-98-85.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:37 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:53:41 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-36-143-155.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:19 noob question, in what situation would i use quote? 20:56:41 msmith1: when you want to avoid normal evaluation. 20:57:16 msmith1: for example, if you want to refer to a symbol in a context where it would normally be evaluated for its value 20:57:22 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:29 like: (symbol-name 'foo) 20:57:36 (symbol-name foo) would do something quite different. 21:01:04 Like (print '(+ 3 4)) vs. (print (+ 3 4))? 21:01:39 that is also a fine example 21:02:31 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:26 -!- euangelion [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:04:57 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:06:35 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:44 thanks, but i guess i'm asking why would I want to do those things? for introspection? 21:08:10 msmith1: I woudln't worry about it until you get to it. 21:08:59 good evening 21:10:32 Xach: just trying to grasp the concept. thanks for your replies. 21:13:45 msmith1: Maybe this helps. QUOTE is like when your reading a magazne article and the author quotes a source, e.g. citizen Bubba said, "I don't like peas" The quoting changes the context and causes your normal reading context to switch maybe you say to yorself, "Hey the author wants me to not evaluate what is being said as _her_ words but rather those of Citizen bubba." The lisp special operator QUOTE does the same. It tells the lisp 21:13:46 reader to not take what your gonna tell it next literally... 21:17:09 mon_key: ha! wow. just like double quotes in any other language. I'm sorry, an example i saw in a book completely through me off. never mind 21:17:19 No, not like that. 21:17:22 msmith1: No. 21:19:50 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:20:06 In Common Lisp double quotes are for strings. This is a "string". Either of these are a quoted expressions '(foo in a list with "string") 'foo 21:20:29 -!- cnl [~cnl@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:58 This: '(foo in a list with "string") is equivalent to this: (quote (foo in a list with "string")) 21:22:49 This: 'foo is equivalent to this: (quote foo) 21:23:00 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:01 why not like double quotes? 21:23:15 All things being equal, is it better to use defstrut or defclass? (Assuming we don't need any of the features provided only by the latter.) 21:23:33 adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-43.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 21:23:50 I like defstruct over defclass for its terseness and type checking of its slots 21:23:56 quotemstr: Better at what? 21:24:03 tcr: class slots can have types 21:24:08 Preferable. 21:24:13 quotemstr: For what? 21:24:23 drdo: sure 21:24:26 Xach: Organizing program data. 21:24:46 quotemstr: The qualification of not considering any of the features of defclass seems a little strange to me. 21:25:11 quotemstr: If you discard things that defclass does but defstruct doesn't, that's a severe handicap against defclass. 21:25:11 Xach: Some type hierarchies involve only single inheritance with only limited polymorphism. 21:26:13 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440758.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 21:26:51 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:44 quotemstr: Kent Pitman posted some well reasoned positions on defstruct vs. defclass on c.l.l e.g. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/74b21ca592a3581c 21:28:23 oh, c.l.l is comp.lang.lisp! 21:28:30 why I didn't notice it before? 21:28:34 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-65B5D100.sub-69-98-85.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 21:29:43 -!- gz_ [~gz@142.sub-69-98-85.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:55 Thanks. 21:30:12 zmv: Most people these days aren't used to old Usenet conventions. 21:30:31 gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has joined #lisp 21:31:43 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spacemanaki] 21:33:00 -!- fckStick [~fckStick@173-21-234-231.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:33:47 -!- gz_ [~gz@72.71.250.53] has left #lisp 21:34:19 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CF219.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:35:12 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:38:55 chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:54 -!- jokoon [~eio@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:20 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:31 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48:25 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:51:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 21:53:07 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:29 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:55:08 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:31 hugod [~hugod@bas3-montreal50-1279338525.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:30 Zenton [~user@46.25.140.110] has joined #lisp 22:15:12 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:23 seangrove [~user@173.151.146.251] has joined #lisp 22:15:29 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:15:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.110.222] has joined #lisp 22:19:21 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:05 zmv_ [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:24:24 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:14 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.110.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:30:33 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F67F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:00 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7F67F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:33:38 lanthan [~ze@p54B7F67F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:32 fckStick [fckStick@173-21-234-231.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:30 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.60] has joined #lisp 22:43:36 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:48 lambda [lambda@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:24 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 22:48:58 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 22:52:44 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spacemanaki] 22:58:59 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:01:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:01 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-53-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:06:01 -!- seangrove [~user@173.151.146.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:10 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-43.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-119-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:45 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:21 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-236.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 23:12:46 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.205.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:39 Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.205.158] has joined #lisp 23:13:43 -!- Aiwass [~Aiwass4@188.26.205.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:37 c|mell [~cmell@213.164.30.37] has joined #lisp 23:18:46 francogrex [~user@109.130.110.222] has joined #lisp 23:20:26 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:21:13 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755ec7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:01 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-179-184-149.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:07 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:16 symbole [~user@50-56-91-243.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:34 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:27:27 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-117-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:28:30 Hi all. Was there at any time a lisp function called "REGO"? 23:28:34 -!- kae [~dsa@ext02.gsp.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:30:25 -!- symbole [~user@50-56-91-243.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:13 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:22 . 23:31:23 can't find anything but it's coming out of the disassembler; might not even be lisp : http://paste.lisp.org/display/120675 23:32:52 alama [~alama@a79-169-25-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 wouldn't that be a register? "register 0" 23:34:32 incandenza: it's possible... too tired to think about this whateever it is. Not that important. Sorry 23:39:59 derrotebaron [johannes@static.7.69.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 23:40:32 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.248.124] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 23:45:31 how do I get a file chooser dialog box in mcclim? 23:46:07 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 23:46:07 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 23:46:07 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:48:10 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:51:17 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.110.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:59 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-68-175-63-237.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spacemanaki] 23:53:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:19 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:56:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-107.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]