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E.g. if a particular function can be implemented using a ppcre:scanner object, how could I make it so that that object is only created once and kept around as a sort of closure? 00:21:20 is this the let over lambda idiom? 00:21:34 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.177.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:03 yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.177.238] has joined #lisp 00:22:04 (I could do a defvar before the function, but I want to know if I can not leak that outside of the function definition itself) 00:22:55 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-83-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:27 Shaftoe: defvar is one option. 00:24:40 Do you really care if it leaks? 00:25:06 nah. I'm just trying to learn more sophisticated manners, if there are any for this particular thing 00:25:10 Shaftoe: load-time-value 00:25:29 I *am* currently using defvar and it does work. just kicking dirt... 00:25:42 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:26:47 ahh. reading let over lambda (the book) I do see that it does still involve a defvar 00:27:05 http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/guest/chap2.html#sec_5 (block scanner implementation) 00:27:12 nikodemus recently wrote about using load-time-value 00:27:28 ah yes. checking. 00:29:39 alright. curiosity satisfied for now. 00:30:30 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 00:31:01 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 00:34:12 nefo [~nefo@202.112.3.6] has joined #lisp 00:34:12 -!- nefo [~nefo@202.112.3.6] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:12 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 00:38:40 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 00:40:49 -!- mason [~user@ip72-211-205-4.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:07 mason [~user@ip72-211-205-4.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:16 bloop [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has joined #lisp 00:44:02 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81643d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:55 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:13 -!- bloop [43aa6450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.100.80] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:48 QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has joined #lisp 00:46:42 -!- basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6CD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:11 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-103-147.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:30 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 00:49:33 alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:51:27 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:52:12 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:56:01 hmm, what's the easiest way to get the whole Nth row in a two-dimensional array? 00:57:37 Could use a displaced array to reference the row. 01:02:12 -!- cylob [~blahblah@moon.intrastar.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:08:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C48D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:37 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:45 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:14:35 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:14:52 -!- Soulman [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:14:54 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947926.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:25 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:16:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:19:29 mattrepl [~mattrepl@64.134.228.252] has joined #lisp 01:21:16 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:30 weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:19 Justsomerandomgu [~none@c-24-6-46-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:44 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:28:23 weirdo_ [~sthalik@c145-26.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:29:41 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has joined #lisp 01:31:25 flow3r [~flow3r@61.111.10.20] has joined #lisp 01:31:31 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:31:31 -!- weirdo_ is now known as weirdo 01:31:56 rtoym: yeah, but that's ugly and conses 01:32:17 not that the performance matters in any way for the current iteration of my code, but it's still ugly 01:33:11 huh? 01:33:14 Why is that ugly? 01:33:25 a displaced array certainly takes up less space than an array holding that row 01:34:45 I think I should really iterate here, since my goal is to update the values stored anyway 01:35:48 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:46 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38:35 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:38:39 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:38:40 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:38:43 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:25 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:40:41 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:20 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:41:55 -!- streblo [~streblo@c-24-130-143-115.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:06 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-83-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:42:10 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 01:42:32 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:42:34 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:43:05 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633488.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:43:05 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 01:44:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:31 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:48:50 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@64.134.228.252] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:58:09 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:59:48 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:00:38 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:09:51 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:10:20 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:24 -!- awesome-o [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has quit [Quit: awesome-o] 02:11:49 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:15:11 backquote expressions are literals, right? 02:15:15 ie. I can't modify them 02:15:43 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:11 mathrick: say more 02:17:43 (let ((foo `(1 2 3))) (setf (elt foo 2) 42)) 02:18:12 the actual backquote I want will have commas in it, but that should be equally valid 02:19:09 can you give something closer to your actual backquote? 02:20:12 I would avoid modifying it even if upon closer inspection you could prove that it cannot be a literal 02:20:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:21:40 mathrick: sbcl warns me about your example: 02:21:50 ; caught WARNING: 02:21:51 ; Destructive function SB-KERNEL:%SETELT called on constant data. 02:21:51 ; See also: 02:21:51 ; The ANSI Standard, Special Operator QUOTE 02:21:51 ; The ANSI Standard, Section 3.2.2.3 02:22:11 adeht: yeah, that was my thinking too 02:22:53 alama: (let ((foo `(,mu ,sigma ,c))) (setf (elt foo 1) 1)) 02:23:55 sbcl has no complains about this: 02:23:56 (let ((mu "hi") (sigma "bye") (c "yo")) (let ((foo `(,mu ,sigma ,c))) (setf (elt foo 1) 1))) 02:27:37 -!- kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:05 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:36 kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 02:29:37 -!- flow3r [~flow3r@61.111.10.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:08 mathrick: might or might not be literal; implementation and input -dependent. 02:31:33 which means it _is_ literal for the purpose of deciding whether I can modify it 02:33:31 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:33:39 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 02:35:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38:59 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 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What is the currently recommended unit testing suite? 03:57:15 -!- jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:00 ebzzry: check out fiveam 03:58:02 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:59:16 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:55 OK. 04:00:06 Anybody rooting for Stefil? 04:02:43 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host74.200-45-92.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:03:24 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 04:03:28 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Changing host] 04:03:28 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:03:56 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.187.224] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:07:31 *rtoym* still uses the ancient rt for testing. 04:08:13 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host74.200-45-92.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 04:11:12 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:13:53 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has joined #lisp 04:44:11 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:21 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:47:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-102-1.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:17 beach: around yet? 04:47:42 Guest49654 [~cipher@c-76-24-16-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:26 is there a sort that also returns the permutation of the list? 04:48:41 That wouldn't be sorting ... so , no. 04:48:49 Guest49654: not in CL. But you could implement such an algorithm. 04:49:06 I'm looking for something like matlab's sort 04:49:15 Perhaps in maxima? 04:49:34 Check cliki.net for other mathematical libraries. 04:49:59 ok, I'll check that. thanks. 04:50:21 Guest49654: it's rather trivial to take the sources of a sort, and to collect the permutation... 04:50:37 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 04:50:50 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:50:52 yeah, I figure.. was just wondering if there was something I was missing 04:55:40 Guest: Um. Sorting is pretty much the opposite of generating permutations. 04:55:50 Guest: Are you sure that you are asking the right question? 04:56:29 Guest49654: don't think there's anything simpler than decorating the input with the original index. 04:57:04 Zhivago: Guest49654 wants the permutation that would transform the input into a sorted sequence. 04:57:17 This is the permutation that is applied by the sort function. 04:57:32 Ok, so a mapping. 04:57:59 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:58:04 More precisely, it's called a permutation. 04:58:19 You should be able to do that by sorting pairs of items and indexes, using the key option, and a mapcar to extract the indices. 05:00:36 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-122.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:46 QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has joined #lisp 05:02:02 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 05:02:12 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:03:08 pkhuong: point taken. 05:03:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-102-1.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:03:21 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:03:49 Zhivago: thanks. that's exactly what I'll do. 05:05:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:08:11 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:10:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:16:16 MoALTz [~no@92.18.30.88] has joined #lisp 05:20:59 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2868C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:26:19 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:28:05 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #lisp 05:28:53 Liera [~user@123.20.60.127] has joined #lisp 05:32:46 -!- tronador_ 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seconds] 06:52:53 kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:00 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-ocrmvgqjdjequmqm] has joined #lisp 06:53:51 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:56 loly [~lolo_love@41.235.25.55] has joined #lisp 06:55:20 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:55:21 hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 06:55:35 No. 06:55:53 -!- _reid [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:56:26 yeah, not so much 06:56:26 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:57:01 -!- loly [~lolo_love@41.235.25.55] has left #lisp 06:58:59 Ragnaroek1 [~Adium@p5B0C4221.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:05 dytrivedi [~chatzilla@61.12.14.178] has joined #lisp 06:59:22 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has joined #lisp 06:59:55 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@109.188.177.238] has quit [Read 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has joined #lisp 08:27:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:28:18 astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 08:28:37 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:33:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:34:02 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 08:34:11 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:34:26 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-205-233.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:09 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:35:31 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-boootsfypdidaprk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:36:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:37:35 Any ideas what to do when sbcl gives an error (in a backtrace!) saying "The value # is not of type SEQUENCE." 08:37:42 vert2 [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-sbipeeltrqilzwyy] has joined #lisp 08:37:43 That's a script using threads... 08:38:28 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:38:31 The "invalid object" is what I'm unsure about ... 08:40:08 In case that's important, I'm using sb-concurrency:mailbox, in SBCL 1.0.46.0.debian 08:44:02 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:45:38 -!- damg [~damg@p5086E534.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:46:08 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:47:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.37.103.171] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.3] 08:49:13 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:50:15 -!- grg_ [~grg@222.191.249.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:38 Ragnaroek [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 08:50:41 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has left #lisp 08:50:42 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:55:53 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:56:16 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:08 -!- roadt [~roadt@nat/cisco/x-szhnwbhbbcdmqpul] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:00:56 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:02:13 roadt [~roadt@nat/cisco/x-cnhsxydzxbsooljd] has joined #lisp 09:05:34 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vdhhyrddoeranmuz] has joined #lisp 09:05:34 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vdhhyrddoeranmuz] has quit [Changing host] 09:05:34 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:09:55 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:10:21 mcguitan83 [~user@negroni.enst.fr] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:16:23 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I can't find a function in the API that tells me whether or not there were any arguments on the command line. 09:31:38 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:31:56 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-76-60.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:33:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:35:44 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:36:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:38:24 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 09:39:13 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:39:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:40:00 pjb: look and behold http://paste.lisp.org/display/120413 09:40:13 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:40:47 rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:06 easyE [vhsgDVuKsI@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 09:41:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Client Quit] 09:44:20 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:37 -!- koning_robot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:47:52 koning_robot [~koning_ro@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:49:43 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:15 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52:02 benny` [~benny@i577A3CCF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:22 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1421.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:55:09 -!- koning_robot [~koning_ro@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Quit: koning_robot] 09:55:19 koning_robot [~koning_ro@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:56:20 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:48 -!- beach` is now known as beach 10:01:09 CrazyEddy [~phonautog@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:02:49 -!- benny` is now known as benny 10:02:53 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:04:49 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:05:27 -!- koning_robot [~koning_ro@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Quit: koning_robot] 10:13:20 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 10:15:02 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:18:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:11 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:24:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:28:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:02 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d818eab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:04 hiho 10:29:43 Why can I not use constants in case? 10:29:55 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 10:30:04 wakeup: CASE does not evaluate its key 10:30:07 as in (case foo (+const+ (bar))) 10:30:14 either use #., or use alexandria:switch 10:30:47 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:31:11 bummer 10:34:36 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:38:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:39:06 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:40:26 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:09 GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has joined #lisp 10:43:14 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:51 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:33 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBBC20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:14 ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.76.187] has joined #lisp 10:54:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.81.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:57:06 -!- Rukowen_ [~Rukowen@113.162.163.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:56 Good afternoon #lisp, can you reccommend some good material on expert systems? 11:00:47 udzinari: paip 11:01:52 flip214: great, all roads seem to lead to that book 11:02:46 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:14 udzinari: in Chapter 16 of PAIP you build EMYCIN. (I like the 'equation' EMYCIN = Prolog + uncertainty + caching + questions + explanations.) 11:07:10 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:08:00 tbh, I did remmember that one, but was hoping there was something else too.. need to build one in couple of months for my app, and I *really* don't want to do it in ruby.. 11:09:16 I noticed there are several libs on cl.net, but I still need to get hold of basics from somewhere, don't want to blindly re-use. 11:10:07 thanks anyway :) 11:11:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:14:42 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:19:17 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 11:19:18 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has quit [Quit: And we said: look at that fucker dance.] 11:23:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:56 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:00 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:27:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C397.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:39 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:49 people: look and behold http://paste.lisp.org/display/120413 11:32:08 people this is thanks to your help :) 11:33:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:34:27 -!- astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:36:17 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:37:12 Posterdati: do you have an example input for that, too? 11:37:20 yes 11:37:22 wait 11:38:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/120413#1 11:38:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:03 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-171948.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:39:28 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-171948.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:40:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:04 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-5.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:41:17 koning_robot [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 11:42:59 Posterdati: there are no actual simulation routines there yet, are they? 11:43:11 yes 11:43:26 I'm copying them from a previous project 11:43:49 I update the project to include a subcircuit option 11:44:53 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:24 Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.185.125] has joined #lisp 11:45:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:03 Posterdati: great! 11:46:21 splittist: lol! 11:47:04 -!- Raykon [~user@bl11-214-3.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:15 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 11:48:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:48:25 cfy` [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 11:48:51 -!- cfy` is now known as Guest87188 11:49:03 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:03 -!- Guest87188 [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:20 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-25-55.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 11:50:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:00 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955E4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:25 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 11:52:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:58 astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has joined #lisp 11:52:58 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955CE64.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:53:05 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.217] has joined #lisp 11:53:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.217] has quit [Changing host] 11:53:10 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:55:38 Where do I enter emacs lisp commands in repl (clozure/slime) ? add-to-list, for example, doesn't exist. Do all emacs lisp commands have to be in *.el file (no repl then) ? 11:55:41 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:56:33 prljavi_hari: if you want elisp repl use M-x ielm 11:56:43 ok 11:59:08 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:00:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:25 keyvan1 [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:03:42 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 12:03:44 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:08 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:23 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:42 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-25-55.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 12:04:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:05:26 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:06:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:07:21 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 12:08:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:51 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:12 c|mell [~cmell@AGrenoble-552-1-160-67.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:09:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:10:35 isn't #'(lambda ...) redundant? 12:10:54 that is #'(lambda ...) is equivalent to (lambda ...) ? 12:11:22 it is, but only because in the second version lambda is a macro invocation 12:11:41 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11:42 it is equivalent that is, it's not redundant 12:11:47 ah 12:11:53 it expands to the former 12:12:02 so that #' is redundant or no? 12:12:20 maybe redundant isn't the word I'm looking for 12:12:33 it is unnecessary, though some people include it as a matter of style 12:13:11 *Saturnation* was going to go with superfluous, but unnecessary works 12:13:42 my naive understanding of the language keeps seeing that and wondering why it is done. 12:14:13 ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:23 Elizabet1Dysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:41 there's a good cll thread explaining/discussing it, just looking for it... 12:20:18 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/e842449e3bac2555/bfeeb7de0d983d9a 12:21:08 -!- astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:22:52 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:23:09 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:23:50 Looks like cl-irc has troubles connecting to quakenet. 12:24:38 or quakenet has trouble being compliant 12:25:50 Does somebody know what "" in an sbcl error means? 12:25:52 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 12:26:03 wakeup: Probably latter. But it doesn't solve the problem. 12:26:13 I'm using sb-concurrency:mailbox, but no FFI (at least directly, don't know about sb-thread etc.) 12:26:28 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-056-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:42 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:27:03 df_aldur, thanks, that makes a bit more sense now 12:27:12 naryl: indeed, I just wanted to take some blame from the client implementors, since it seems really hard to get a client working with all networks 12:27:49 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:28:02 *Saturnation* decides to stick to #'(lambda ...) until his future better understanding tells him otherwise (if ever...) 12:28:36 -!- kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:41 -!- kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:01 kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:05 kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 12:31:21 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 12:34:08 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5DDBBC20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:48 schaueho_ [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-013-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:49 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 12:42:20 kerx_ [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-056-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:47 roadt_ [~roadt@nat/cisco/x-yxtvzobwrtwvmyht] has joined #lisp 12:43:23 -!- ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:11 b-tag [~b-tag@183.37.35.12] has joined #lisp 12:44:32 df_aldur: that is a very interesting thread, thanks. (I'm trying to remember why LOL recommends to always use (lambda ...) ) 12:44:43 -!- kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:03 hello 12:45:15 -!- roadt [~roadt@nat/cisco/x-cnhsxydzxbsooljd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:46:08 -!- b-tag [~b-tag@183.37.35.12] has left #lisp 12:47:58 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:09 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:39 splittist, If you remember, please let me know 12:58:17 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:58:44 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:59:28 *stassats* got a new CPU, which builds SBCL 3 min and 22 sec 12:59:31 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:33 now, that's better for bisecting 12:59:39 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:59:44 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 12:59:46 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:59:59 very nice. 13:00:16 here's a nickel, kid, buy a disk that can fit every revision of SBCL. 13:00:21 (built) 13:01:50 and i haven't tried building several sbcls at once 13:02:41 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:02:56 *stassats* is sad that all his microptimizations now will be in vain 13:03:13 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:39 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.187] has joined #lisp 13:05:41 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:08 -!- c|mell [~cmell@AGrenoble-552-1-160-67.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:17 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.76.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:39 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.76.187] has joined #lisp 13:07:25 didn't antifuchs actually have a git with sbcl binaries? 13:07:35 he still has 13:09:08 but it takes 52G, would be easier to build than to download 13:10:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:10:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:11:00 -!- amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:11:08 kerx__ [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 13:11:19 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:11:34 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:13:16 URL? 13:13:32 you could store the binaries in a directory, using the source git hash as filename 13:14:00 then you wouldn't have to build the same revision multiple times (if you're doing multiple bisects) 13:14:06 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-ocrmvgqjdjequmqm] has left #lisp 13:14:21 flip214: that's what we're talking about 13:14:52 johs_ [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 13:15:33 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:03 lichtblau: http://sbcl.boinkor.net/build-archive/ 13:16:23 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:25 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:55 luis` [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 13:18:22 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 13:18:24 -!- kerx_ [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:24 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:24 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:24 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:44 stassats: thanks. Not the git that I was remembering, but still nice. 13:20:53 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:46 i guess one could download lazily when doing bisecting 13:22:59 -!- schaueho_ [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-013-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:23:19 MoALTz [~no@92.18.30.88] has joined #lisp 13:24:39 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:25:03 -!- johs_ is now known as johs 13:28:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:52 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:30:01 urandom__ [~user@p548A5E08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:25 Joreji_ [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:35:01 The DSL I'm writing it tells me it wants to have a macrolet ... can somebody point me at some code for implementing the macro's lambda list (this would be analagous to alexandria:parse-ordinary-lambda-list)? 13:35:12 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-76-60.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:36:15 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-76-60.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:36:19 bhyde: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=ef0a2413224883802718811cba6afd1f9b4a81fb&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=common-lisp/lisp-sexp/source-form.lisp 13:37:10 basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6EED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:32 pjb: looking 13:38:02 Download instructions at http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/ 13:39:23 pjb: this is nice 13:42:43 pjb: grumble ... i spoke to my DSL and she reveals she has issues with GPL, silly DSL. 13:43:00 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 13:44:23 -!- splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:30 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:47:08 -!- wakeup 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reset by peer] 16:52:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:23 youguy [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:52:58 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.76.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:53:40 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.155.199] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 16:54:08 -!- youguy [~youguy@209.127.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:16 hello lispers! 16:54:20 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:54:51 superflit_ [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:54:58 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-179-108.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:06 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 16:58:00 yello mon_key 16:58:35 What is an idiomatic way to pass a parameter such that it can be declare to loop at runtime? I have 4 different types of values which loop prob. like to know about. unsigned-byte 48,32,16,8 17:00:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:00:35 <_3b> you mean you have a loop which you want to be optimized for specific cases, but don't know which until runtime? 17:00:58 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-179-108.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:25 _3b: yes but the possible return values are constrained to the range of U-B listed above 17:01:55 <_3b> with sbcl, i'd say inline calls to the loop (with a flet maybe, or using a macro to generate multiple copies) into a typecase for each case you care about 17:02:17 Xach, received my evaluation license 7 minutes ago 17:02:43 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:44 *_3b* still isn't sure if that is what you are asking though 17:03:09 i'l past it 17:03:16 lichtblau: I don't have that git repo anymore 17:03:33 lichtblau: I threw it out because it took too much space, and nobody was very interested in it at the time 17:03:42 antifuchs: OK 17:04:02 Is the script that generates the binaries in the archive available? 17:04:03 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.98.217] has joined #lisp 17:04:06 now that I have more space and a more powerful machine available (soon!), I might re-start that experiment, with a higher delta compression ratio maybe 17:05:19 the binaries are generated by autobench; it's at https://github.com/antifuchs/autobench/tree/modernize 17:05:27 (but that probably does more than you want with it) 17:05:43 the binaries themselves are available at http://sbcl.boinkor.net/build-archive/ 17:06:00 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:07:07 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-vgxsixrlwbcxyhdm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:04 thanks 17:10:06 Did I say I'm a fan of Dmitry's SBCL? I'm now a fan of Anton's SBCL. 17:10:14 cbbrowne [~user@tor-gateway.afilias.info] has joined #lisp 17:11:06 haha 17:11:18 if only there were someone with commit access with sufficient fandom to commit to everyone's SBCL! 17:11:21 this needs to go into sbcl proper so it can be our SBCL again 17:11:31 -!- Liera [~user@113.172.40.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:32 Krystof: proper socialists, ew 17:11:33 "we" 17:11:40 (oh my. sentiment reversal) 17:12:09 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@pD955E4C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:12:25 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.181] has joined #lisp 17:12:50 lichtblau: it's almost enough to make me want to install windows to try it out 17:13:23 I'm... actually not quite happy about some of the stuff in Anton's win32-os.c. 17:13:25 Krystof: as far as my understanding of the sbcl-devel discussions goes, there's only little stuff that needs to be done before merging Dmitry's work, and he's aware of it. ... Anton's stuff is more experimental yet. 17:13:41 slyrus: the huge win with Anton's branch for me is that it works on Wine -:) 17:13:52 that is pretty incredible 17:13:53 yes, that does sound nice 17:14:00 Not sure if it's also in Dmitry's. 17:14:13 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 17:14:19 wine compat is pretty cool. maybe we can ship a windows-only build for all platforms now : 17:14:22 Hey, stock SBCL should work on Wine, provided they fixed that stupid bug in the exception handling, shouldn't it? 17:14:36 More precisely, works even on wine >= 1.0, whereas dmitry's branch works only on < 1.0. Dmitry fixed the fundamental problems; the remaining bits were os_map issues. 17:15:15 I know I tried SBCL on Wine a few times prior to SBCL-1.0, and the main problem was the faulting instruction address, which is/was a known wine bug. 17:16:56 memechaser_ [~chris@82.132.210.140] has joined #lisp 17:19:02 -!- memechaser_ is now known as memechaser 17:21:05 Hi guys; is there a language reference in texinfo format? I can only find the hyperspec in HTML format... 17:21:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:18 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21:50 memechaser: there's the dpans2texi script which gives you texinfo from the final ANSI draft 17:21:53 it's very useful 17:22:01 (and the generated HTML isn't as awful as that of the hyperspec) (: 17:24:51 mon_key pasted "Informing loop of integer size -- how to do it idiomatically?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120426 17:25:32 antifuchs: Ok, thanks. Will try it. I've just read that it's already bundled in the gnu common lisp implementation. 17:26:01 ah, didn't know GCL packaged that 17:26:26 <_3b> mon_key: yeah, sounds like what i suggested could work there 17:26:55 antifuchs: Apparently, just found reference to it in emacswiki, but not checked myself yet. 17:27:10 with ret of-type (unsigned-byte 48) ? 17:27:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:27:19 <_3b> (and ub32 can still be optimized on x86, if not quite as much... the math can work in machine registers, but it would have to be boxed to return it) 17:28:03 mon_key: Whatever you do, you're going to lose, simply because the type you end up with is going to depend on the difference between START and END, and can overflow a 32-bit word... Although a 64-bit lisp will probably use a FIXNUM. 17:28:05 Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:28:15 <_3b> mon_key: also, for sbcl at least, you probably shouldn't be using THE for optimization 17:28:28 That said, this looks like a semi-familiar problem. 17:28:33 stassats: yes, I'm fooling around with the UUID library. 17:28:49 _3b: why now THE 17:28:52 <_3b> nyef: wouldn't separate code paths for each expected size work? 17:28:57 and you use integer pos multiplying it by 8 each time, can't you just multiply the starting point by 8 and then go down with 8 decrements? 17:29:18 _3b: It would, but I wouldn't expect the compiler to be able to do so on its own initiative. 17:29:26 <_3b> mon_key: unless you turn off safety, it adds a type check (unless it can verify it at compile time, in which case it already knew the type anyway) 17:29:30 mon_key: that was an answer to which question? 17:29:47 stassats: (unsigned-byte 48) ? 17:29:52 <_3b> nyef: right, expanding it by hand 17:30:02 mon_key: that was a code suggestion, not a question 17:30:46 nyef annotated #120426 "You might find this to relevant... or not." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120426#1 17:31:29 stassats: ub16 and ub8 happen 2:1 against ub32 and ub48 cases so declaring the upper bounds as ub48 doesn't seem expedient? 17:31:58 <_3b> mon_key: and for the (the ub8 (aref...)) case, it would be better to declare the type of the array anyway 17:32:06 write different versions for each array 17:32:31 _3b, stassats: I'm doing that in the non pastelisp case :) 17:32:53 Parameterize on the start and number of octets, not the start and end offsets, then do something reasonable based on the length? 17:33:38 or, forget it about it and come back when it becomes a problem? 17:34:20 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 17:36:13 Or that, though serialization cost for a binary format is something that quite often is reasonable to expect to be on the critical path. 17:36:38 stassats: The problem space is an attempt at some persistence via UUIDs. I want to generate UUIDs in a manner somewhat akin to mongo/couchdb... so for example couchDB uses uuid v4 which relies on random... these are a known bottlekneck there and in fact i want to namespace the UUID so using a UUID v5 is preferred. 17:37:48 nyef: so dispatch according to value of :start/:end? 17:38:04 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:26 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:38:41 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:38:41 More, use :start :length instead of :start :end to begin with... And if :length then becomes a constant for each call site, consider involving a compiler macro to either inline a better version or to do the dispatch. 17:40:00 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 17:40:14 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:40:27 -!- memechaser [~chris@82.132.210.140] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:40:27 OK :length makes more sense indeed. Thanks - Looks like I get to learn more about compiler macros today :) 17:40:44 And, hey, you even get an example to look at! 17:40:54 *_3b* would probably just inline the whole thing 17:41:04 *_3b* is lazy and probably overuses inline though 17:41:36 nyef: Yes Thank you for that. Though just looking at it makes my head spin! 17:41:59 _3b: inline the dispatched function? 17:42:40 <_3b> (declaim (inline tt--load-bytes)) 17:42:56 -!- bmp [~bmp@static-71-190-247-30.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:30 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 17:43:35 <_3b> if you want it portably fast, compiler macxro is probably a better idea though 17:44:36 _3b: OK. 17:44:41 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:24 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-207.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:46:34 ... I never did write a compiler-macro for (setf request-integer)... 17:46:56 nyef: are the #N #N# kosher? 17:47:24 I believe so. 17:47:31 It's not like it's code at that point, after all. 17:47:42 OK. Just curious :) 17:48:01 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 17:48:20 -!- kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-82-45.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:49:43 Actually, I might even be able to argue that it'd be kosher in code as well as data, largely on the strength of literal forms in macroexpansion. 17:50:46 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-123.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:51:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:52:36 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-207.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:42 nyef: OK. was looking at 21.1.3.2 (and prob. mis-interpreting/mis-applying the context) 17:52:55 clhs 21.1.3.2 17:52:55 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 21.1.3.2. 17:53:00 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1e61.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 " 17:53:07 ? 17:53:14 "The RECURSIVE-P argument" 17:53:38 hi 17:53:52 prxq: Hello. 17:54:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:54:17 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:54:36 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@122.163.238.87] has quit [Quit: And we said: look at that fucker dance.] 17:55:56 Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:56:16 -!- Areil [~Areil@113.172.40.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:20 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 17:57:32 ...who's Brucio? 17:58:35 sykopomp: he's a very enthusiastic lisper. 17:58:44 Brucio is awesome! 17:58:50 Brucio! 17:59:04 he's been silent for a very long time. :) 17:59:14 and his blog has been reclaimed ): 17:59:20 Aww. 18:00:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:00:43 but he writes through other's blogs 18:00:43 ... is "Bruciotic" a word yet? 18:00:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:02:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 18:04:36 maybe Brucioism 18:04:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 sounds like Brucio is a deeply "in joke" -- lisper initiate level 42 stuff? 18:05:53 initiate: "Who is Brucio" master: "If you have to ask..." 18:06:24 his blog is gone, you're a little too late 18:06:48 prxq: I'd imagine that Brucioism would be more the attitude, and Bruciotic is descriptive of the results of the attitude. 18:07:30 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:07:47 mon_key: yes, he's a very deep in-joke. he would port PHP features over to lisp (like NIF, the "natural if") 18:08:20 "natural if"... 18:08:26 ... Brucioism could be described as Bruciotic, but also leads to the possibility of Brucioistic. The former seeming more stupid, the latter more self-absorbed. 18:08:28 *stassats* lost the link to his latest lisp description 18:08:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.171] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:09:21 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.94] has joined #lisp 18:10:50 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:11:55 stassats: obv. you have transcended then :) 18:11:55 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:12:00 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:34 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:17:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:40 <_3b> http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20080722232746/http://brucio.blogspot.com/ for those seeking enlightenment :p 18:19:59 No need to. He reincarned several times. Into gavino, into Cthun, into WJ... 18:21:56 pjb: I thought Cthun was botmeat? 18:22:40 Lame lifeforms will reincarnate into bots too. 18:25:25 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 18:25:44 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:26:37 memechaser [~chris@85.211.4.167] has joined #lisp 18:26:48 pjb: don't discount the bots. FWIW I thought the recent linking on c.l.l re Cthun and US military use of Cthun(like) bots for espionage in "social media" to be quite eye opening wrt current revolt in the Middle East. 18:31:23 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.163] has joined #lisp 18:31:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:31:48 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:34:04 dunkyp [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:34:14 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 18:34:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.163] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:34 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:35:47 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:50 brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:38:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:03 -!- memechaser [~chris@85.211.4.167] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:40:29 that was a funny read (brucio blog), thanks _3b 18:40:42 hm, no, WJ and Brucio are not really comparable. 18:41:41 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:08 Brucio had at least some kind of positive, constructive mood. 18:43:42 (who is WJ again? some cll troll?) 18:43:48 antifuchs: yes 18:44:01 ah, one more reason to not read (: 18:44:07 antifuchs: someone who HATES HATES HATES common lisp for some odd reason 18:44:35 nobody has been able to figure out what the reason might be. 18:44:44 I think he also hates cobol. 18:44:58 that, I can understand! 18:45:14 antifuchs: have you used it? 18:45:39 Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C4E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:05 I did, back in school. worst year of my life (: 18:46:29 Used what? 18:46:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:24 I know a guy who likes it. Has books on object oriented cobol and stuff. 18:47:36 jsoftw: cobol 18:47:43 cobol :| 18:48:07 Isnt that uber old and very 'business' like? Like old school as stuff? 18:48:09 awesome-o [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:13 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:16 I found cobol quite funny actually. Now of course, I only wrote three programs in Cobol, using punch cards, and 2 hours compile cycles... 18:48:32 prxq: my only memory is writing a program to verify my mental model of how arithmetic works. took me an hour to enter the boilerplate in that stupid form-based editor 18:49:07 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 Pfff! Editor... Try punch cards! Cobol can only be appreciated with punch-cards. 18:51:26 pjb: no thanks, I'm good 18:51:55 was enough for me to have quarter-hour trial cycles 18:52:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:52:18 -!- koning_r` [~user@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:52:32 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:42 jsoftw: nowadays, there's an Object Oriented Cobol. 18:52:58 *p_l|home* shivers 18:53:10 Structured COBOL was good enough 18:53:15 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 18:53:29 and its runtime I/O library has saner defaults than Java 18:53:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:48 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:26 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:58:58 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:59:16 -!- Elizabet1Dysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:53 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:03:53 Eh. Better me doing Java than Cobol. 19:03:55 -!- astoon [~astoon@nat121-249-205-109.tvoe.tv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:14 -!- McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:04:36 But I didn't know about it being OO now. Neat. 19:05:00 Just started learning a bit of CLOS, kinda interesting 19:05:37 jsoftw: it is rather! 19:05:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:12 CLOS has kind of ruined me for other object systems. 19:06:16 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:08:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:08:30 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:10:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:37 Oh yeah, I was randomly talking to these security guards who are helping out in town (there was an earthquake here), and one of the guys had come over from Canada, and was asking what I was doing. Just mentioned I was playing around making some mini programs, and he asked what language. Told him lisp, and he knew what it was :D 19:11:40 Rannnndom 19:11:51 And this other guy who came over was a counter-surveilance guy 19:12:01 Into his radios/bugs/etc 19:12:20 Canada is a lisp hotspot. :) 19:12:49 :) 19:13:49 Ragnaroek1 [~Adium@p5B0C4E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 Constantly suprises me how quick it is to build stuff in lisp, and how few lines of code it turns out to be 19:14:12 Even if they are (in my case) stupid little play programs 19:14:13 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 19:16:53 and how they tend to work without much debugging? 19:17:50 Yeah that too. 19:18:14 About the only debugging that seems to pop up is just me not understanding a particular library or soemthing like that. 19:18:46 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:18:57 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:09 phao [~phao@189.107.75.89] has joined #lisp 19:20:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.98.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:20:42 which lisp implementation I can use on windows (I just want an installer here ... I could use sbcl, but I'd have to compile the source) 19:21:14 There are binaries available I think 19:21:43 for version .0.13 19:21:50 which is from 2-4 years ago 19:21:54 phao: no no no 19:22:03 no? 19:22:05 phao: there's a new kid on the sbcl-on-windows block (: 19:22:16 let me look it up, hold on 19:22:26 ok 19:22:27 thx 19:22:53 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:01 http://www.siftsoft.com/inprogress/forknews.html 19:23:18 that's a slightly-experimental sbcl fork with thread support and an installer 19:23:23 seems to work really well, apparently 19:23:40 well, that is enough for me 19:23:45 I'm just learning cl 19:23:51 cool stuff 19:24:00 I hope it works well for you! 19:24:17 I do too 19:24:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:24:58 let us know if something breaks - I'm sure anton will appreciate bug reports (: 19:25:02 ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:14 (and it will speed up merging the fork and the regular sbcl) (: 19:25:58 antifuchs, how stable/usable are the threads? and does it do slad well with the threads? 19:26:17 -!- ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:18 Saturnation: I believe the page has information on stability 19:26:46 thanks, skimming it now 19:27:05 I haven't tried them myself yet, but maybe lichtblau has (-: 19:28:57 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-69-181-1-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:29:10 boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 19:29:16 don't see anything specific about stability, but then I only just skimmed it 19:29:29 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:29:32 *Saturnation* is pretty sold on using LispWorks at the moment, but always good to have a plan B 19:31:22 ccl is supposed to be good on windows too 19:31:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.30.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:48 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 19:31:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 19:31:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:32:27 Xach, must thank you again for mentioning CAPI yesterday. It makes sense AND is well documented. :) 19:33:48 and it's afaik similar to "normal" toolkits 19:33:57 ... unlike CLIM 19:34:55 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 19:35:44 repro23 [~repro23@mnhm-5f74f9ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:47 p_l|home, yeah, my understanding of GUI's is mapping very nicely to CAPI 19:36:03 that's not fair to CLIM: that's pretty similar to whatever was current 1.5 decades ago (: 19:36:48 at CAPI looks like a dream to implement with as compared to the nightmare that was going to be cl-gtk2 implementation and deployment 19:38:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:30 MoALTz [~no@92.18.30.88] has joined #lisp 19:39:32 antifuchs: ... I don't think I'd agree 19:41:15 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:41:22 more like 2.5 decades ago 19:45:48 Saturnation: that's what's great with lisp, not only we have a plan B, but a plan C, D, and 9. 19:46:04 antifuchs, the stand alone progrma worked, but the installer didn't (windows here said that my processor doesn't support that package -- funny is that the x86 standalone runned here, and that error was for the x86 installer) 19:47:36 wasn't plan 9 in c 19:47:46 varjag: Limbo IIRC 19:47:59 ok 19:48:50 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:48:53 No, no... Plan 9 was in C, but they decided to repeat their first experiment with writing a C compiler and wrote without conforming to any existing language specification. 19:52:09 pjb, almost plan infinite, which is a bit off putting for the uninitiated 19:53:01 *Saturnation* applied to my documentation statement... s/well/better 19:53:06 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:53:48 or should at least say it looks like plan infinite at times... 19:54:19 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:18 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:00:37 silenius_ [~silenus@p54946477.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@204.14.152.118] has joined #lisp 20:03:05 nyef: actually, Plan9 C follows ANSI with some extensions that are allowed under ANSI 20:03:19 nyef: what you were thinking about was Alef 20:03:21 -!- repro23 [~repro23@mnhm-5f74f9ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: repro23] 20:03:35 so, when will be SBCL ported to it? 20:03:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:45 Wow, Lisp is like programming with Legos, but SOOO much better. :) 20:03:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:04:03 *Saturnation* is getting close to that aha I understand Lisp moment 20:04:08 I can feel it... 20:04:14 (Alef was dropped after second edition or so, I think - it was a CSP-based parallel language) 20:04:31 -!- silenius [~silenus@p54947926.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:01 as for Limbo, it's used in Inferno, which is a separate system that shares certain semantics and APIs 20:05:27 well, understand is probably too grand a word for a Lisp, but I'm getting close to feeling consciously competent... 20:06:58 careful, it can be deceiving 20:07:07 it's always deceiving 20:07:38 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:08:10 Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:08:10 stassats, better than feeling completely lost and overwhelmed 20:08:48 at least I feel like I might be able to accomplish something without spending more than 50% of my time trying to figure out the semantics of the language 20:08:49 you never get lost, you just push the bar farther 20:08:52 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:59 never get unlost 20:09:09 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:16 well, the bar is almost off the ground for me now :) 20:09:30 less talk, more learn... 20:09:53 you'll be hacking killer-apps before you know it 20:09:53 Xach: any feedback on 0.25? 20:11:29 getting there, have to learn CAPI first :) 20:12:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12:09 and kind of glad the documentation has holes, because a) I can see them and b) I can use my lisp knowledge to go beyond what the documentation is showing 20:12:41 Is like System.out all over again (but in not such a sucky language) 20:14:10 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:34 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:50 -!- brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:15:29 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host50-182-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:15:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.30.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:16:59 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:23:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:27 p_l|home: I mean classic CLIM of course (: 20:24:39 p_l|home: that is straight-up windows api or motif respectively 20:26:07 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has joined #lisp 20:26:44 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:27:13 who updates cliki, I was surprised to this this in my feed "Friday 11 March : CLiCC : Added release date." byt when you go to the linked Clicc site, the last update visible is 1995 20:27:47 minion: clicc? 20:27:48 clicc: CLiCC is a Common Lisp to C Compiler, last released 1995. http://www.cliki.net/clicc 20:28:00 sounds correct 20:28:18 isn't #(1 2) the literal of a vector of two integers? 20:28:25 it is 20:28:38 then my misunderstanding lies elsewhere, thanks 20:29:06 what is it! 20:29:15 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:29:16 what? 20:29:21 my misunderstanding 20:29:25 yes 20:29:35 just trying to set the state of a list of gui buttons 20:29:55 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 I can set an individual selection with just and integer offset, but I can't do a multiple with a vector even though the dox say "The selection is represented as a vector of offsets..." 20:31:01 *Saturnation* tries again to get a better look at the error message 20:32:00 drox [~drox@host37-119-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 Inappropriate or out of range... Would really be helpful to know WHICH one is the cause of the error :) 20:32:16 lompa [~lompa@19.Red-88-18-167.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:23 hello 20:32:35 here is possible to speack in italian? 20:32:40 i guess then there is something fishy about the cliki alerts i get with google reader 20:32:40 no 20:33:06 francogrex: yeah, some of the edits are suspicious 20:33:56 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.75.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:34:01 BAH! Stupid dox 20:34:06 drox: communication in this channel is english only. I think there are a few italian speakers here, though 20:34:25 #(1 2) fails, but '(1 2) works, isn't that a list and not a vector? 20:34:39 #() is a vector 20:34:52 '(1 2) is a list 20:35:09 drox: try private query with the italian speakers, however in this day and age, no speak english? 20:35:19 Thank You! Dox state a vector, but code demands a list 20:35:34 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 20:35:46 francogrex, sorry but my engish is bad!!! 20:36:10 *Saturnation* makes a note for if and when LispWorks calls for feedback on the evaluation license... 20:36:12 we concentrate on Lisp here, not on english 20:36:17 for some of us, learning a foreign language, is _much_ harder than it is for others 20:36:21 if it's a programming question you don't need to make shakespearian poems 20:36:27 minion: thwap stassats 20:36:28 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 20:36:28 (; 20:36:57 *stassats* looks around 20:37:16 I have a problem with a slideshow of pictures, I do know how to resize the parent container of the images not only vertically and horizontally as well. 20:37:43 perhaps, one can measure my progress in english by comparing #lisp logs of different periods 20:38:35 drox: huh? 20:39:05 is this about a specific lisp library? 20:39:33 pnq [~nick@ACA26563.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:40 stassats: I think your english is very comprehensible. 20:41:09 -!- drox [~drox@host37-119-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 20:44:41 adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-43.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 20:48:05 he was a weirdo 20:48:16 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:09 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 20:52:56 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:27 arborist [~arborist@g231004132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:02 -!- keyvan1 [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:44 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:59:49 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:58 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:00:02 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:01:41 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:22 francogrex: that qualifies most of us. 21:05:22 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:08:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:20 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 21:11:03 dkasak_ [~dkasak@dh207-101-5.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 21:11:17 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-101-5.xnet.hr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:11:27 -!- dkasak_ is now known as dkasak 21:13:42 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:43 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:17 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:14:27 hi folks, what is currently being recommended for lisp webapps? restas? 21:14:50 hunchentoot 21:15:48 *nuba* checking it out.. 21:15:56 hunchentoot is a webserver. Many others build upon that 21:16:11 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26563.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:17:12 any framework you'd recommend? i'd love to see something which would be to lisp somewhat like catalyst to perl or django to python.. 21:17:36 *slyrus* discovers that the quadratic interpolation routine he poached from clem was broken there too :( 21:17:40 everybody writes their own 21:18:10 heh 21:20:15 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:36 nuba: it's a common issue that it might be easier to write your ownrather than search for a library... 21:22:10 -!- lompa [~lompa@19.Red-88-18-167.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 21:22:45 eh, there are a bunch of web frameworks out there. quicklisp makes it mostly easy to find & integrate them. 21:22:48 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:14 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:34 writing a web framework by yourself might be actually easier than learning weblocks or dwim 21:24:35 antifuchs: can you drop me some names, please? this might help finding info on them and when googling for alternatives, too 21:24:41 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:54 there's weblocks, for one 21:24:57 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:05 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:21 p_l|home: that was the conclusion I reached last year when I needed one 21:25:22 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.254.208] has joined #lisp 21:25:24 also, uncommon web (ucw) 21:25:43 nuba: frameworks: restas, weblocks, dwim, ucw/lol; templates: cl-who, yaclml; routing: cl-routes or Hunchentoot's built-in 21:25:52 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:26:05 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:11 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26:16 is any of these considered "idiomatic lisp" and "state of the art" for webdev on lisp? 21:26:21 no 21:26:37 *nuba* puzzled 21:26:39 hunchentoot is 21:26:40 well, all of them are *current* 21:26:49 Lisp on Lines :) 21:26:54 hunchentoot is near idiomatic for HTTP server :) 21:27:03 (there's also CL-HTTP, but that one is *rare*) 21:27:27 CL-HTTP also includes one of the older web frameworks out there 21:27:45 nuba: there is no one web framework to rule them all. hunchentoot is the basis for most (and it comes close to being equivalent to ruby's rack plus a bunch of convenience stuff) 21:28:54 there's some project I can't recall at the moment that builds something akin to Rack, with Hunchentoot as one of the supported servers, with proper middleware handling like modern Rack 21:28:54 i see. thanks everyone for the pointers, i'll read a bit on each of these.. 21:29:10 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@0x573457e0.hinxx3.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:24 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-165-119.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:40 note also defservice: https://github.com/marijnh/defservice which is a very nice url / api service endpoint routing thing 21:30:16 I believe somebody made a hunchentoot adapter for it, too 21:30:27 we've got plack on perl-land which is heavily inspired by ruby's rack, being widely praised and used, and overall really helping move the perl webdev thing forward :) 21:31:13 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-171-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:38 so did hunchentoot for cl, although it predates rack by quite a bit (: 21:31:51 nice :) 21:32:00 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:32:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-151.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:13 yeah, defservice and cl-routes are two very good routing systems 21:33:31 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 21:33:37 -!- boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has left #lisp 21:34:48 ++Lisp on Lines 21:37:52 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has joined #lisp 21:40:46 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:05 -!- silenius_ [~silenus@p54946477.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:19 alama [~alama@a79-169-81-87.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:48:29 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:47 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:53 -!- _reid [~reid@pool-74-99-202-17.chi01.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52:15 Good morning everyone! 21:54:52 *mathrick* waves to beach from the depths of his moving out 21:58:22 McMAGIC-- [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--] has joined #lisp 21:59:36 hey beach 22:00:27 hej beach :) 22:01:50 hi beach 22:03:21 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 22:03:24 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-111-135.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:05:31 sysop_fb [fb@cpe-098-121-141-115.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:36 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:10:01 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:10 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@p5B0C4E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:20 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1e61.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11:06 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:12:22 -!- adobriyan [~ad@vulture2-nat-43.telecom.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:22 zmv___ [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:17:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:18:06 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:10 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:20:55 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:28 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has joined #lisp 22:21:53 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:23:51 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:25:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:49 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:26:47 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:29:46 silenius [~silenus@p54946477.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:58 -!- Ragnaroek1 [~Adium@p5B0C4E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34:59 -!- muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:35:10 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:35:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:01 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 koning_robot [~user@dhcp-077-248-040-036.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:42:19 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:48:08 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 22:50:25 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-111-135.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 22:52:41 can anyone recommend a nice implementation of common lisp? 22:53:05 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:27 Hundenn: sbcl is very nice 22:53:28 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 22:53:32 sbcl is a very good free implementation that works on many platforms 22:53:36 http://common-lisp.net/~dlw/LispSurvey.html 22:53:36 Hundenn: sbcl or ccl. 22:53:37 i'll take class where i'll be implementing a lisp interpreter soon and i would appreciate a well behaving windows version 22:53:39 if you're on windows, ccl might also be good. 22:53:50 Hundenn: Class? Uh...Lisp or Scheme? 22:54:28 ltriant [~ltriant@124-168-76-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:54:28 redline6561 ... i m to fresh to understand that 22:55:32 Hundenn: They probably want you to interpret Scheme not Common Lisp. If so, Racket is a fairly regularly recommended scheme but you should discuss that in #scheme. 22:55:43 Hundenn: Install sbcl just in case, of course. ;) 22:56:08 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:56:10 tbh i don't really know what we will be doing, i ust know we will develop a lisp interpreter ... and atm i m just happy with anything that can return confident feedback when i enter lisp code 22:56:13 pnq [~nick@ACA4C9E6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:26 Okay. 22:56:28 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 22:56:40 i've pre-worked a bit, so i m not totally stupid ;D 22:56:58 Hundenn: thing about implementing lisp is that there are so many dialects (: 22:56:58 any keywords or function that could held me identify things 22:57:13 Hundenn: so if we recommend one or the other, it'll probably be a dialect you won't be implementing 22:57:22 and they can differ wildly (: 22:57:35 well be doing cons and whatnot, and especially we wont probably rely on uppercase input 22:58:22 yeah. common lisp (which this channel is about) has a bunch of rules, all of them in a 1k+ page ANSI standard (: 22:58:40 yeah thats the problem tbh, i wanna try to write some things and get into it, and dont really know whats waiting 22:58:41 so I don't think you guys are going to be making that. it's cool you want to learn that stuff first, though (: 22:58:55 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-128-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:15 you could check out "the little schemer". IIRC, in there the author implements a simple scheme (another dialect of lisp). 23:00:42 do you have any good advice how i can identify scheme code from common lisp? 23:00:54 defun or define ? 23:00:58 define 23:01:10 that would be scheme, probably (: 23:01:12 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:01:21 aye ;D 23:01:45 #scheme 23:01:58 the course hasnt even started and i'm half done ... but it's so hard to learn because all of the dialects 23:02:11 it gets easier over time (: 23:02:28 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:28 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:02:32 or not... for some :) 23:02:33 it's not about learning lisp i guess, it's basicly more about the structure of languages in total 23:02:41 so that wouldnt matter too much 23:03:23 lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has joined #lisp 23:03:55 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:04:10 scheme is a good to learn stuff like language structure with 23:04:22 and if you like it, maybe you will want to continue working with it (: 23:04:26 i guess, once understood, the dialects are just slight modification, viewed from above 23:04:31 (or other lisp dialects, tee hee) 23:04:47 there are pretty fundamental differences between common lisp and scheme 23:04:58 and, for example, between common lisp and clojure 23:05:04 Hundenn: it doesn't matter much, it's not the language that will make one a good or a bad programmer 23:05:05 they're not only on the syntax level either 23:05:06 -!- lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:05:55 so, you agree that a course that leeds into designing languages has a good reason to use scheme`? 23:06:13 lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has joined #lisp 23:06:23 I think so, yeah 23:06:27 it could use common lisp as well 23:07:01 yeah francogrex but i don't know much about structure yet, i know java c, c++ etc. but i never digged deeper 23:07:44 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:07:46 /w 50 23:07:49 oops 23:07:56 let's say it's a good choice among several others (: 23:08:23 its not that hard tbh, at least from what i learned from the duded that took it ealier ... well go building syntax trees and evaluate them, garbage collection and alll the "advanced stuff" is more an extra, not really necessary to get good marks 23:08:48 drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:09:06 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Quit: brb] 23:09:57 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:10:35 damn haskell is weird 23:11:41 yeah.. it doesn't have conditions 23:11:57 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:12:35 i should probably write an email and find out what we're going to do 23:12:57 p_l|home_ [~pl@213.5.11.129] has joined #lisp 23:13:27 -!- p_l|home [~pl@213.5.11.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:06 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:46 keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:23 thanks antifuchs, rme & francogrex 23:18:36 good luck with your course (: 23:18:40 ;) 23:18:44 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:18:46 i'll stay here ;D 23:19:01 and thanks 23:19:17 its extraordinary exciting 23:19:25 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:37 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:56 i m just a bit curious if i ll be able to convert the info to languages that have another structure 23:20:03 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-171-245-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 23:20:17 pretty sure. it won't be straightforward at times, but that's programming for you : 23:20:19 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:57 lisp seems to be be a binary tree when reduced 23:21:07 or at least the parts i looked at it now 23:21:46 keyvan1 [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 -!- keyvan [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:21:57 <_3b> 'list of things which might also be lists' is probably closer than 'binary tree' 23:22:18 hope it doesn't focus to much on the car and cdr thing, that seems to be the core ... afaik learned so far 23:22:56 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:57 <_3b> or at least more useful, a linked list is technically a binary tree, just usually very unbalanced :) 23:23:03 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:29 i've started implementeing a bit and i thought, the cons is what i would feed into the evaluator ... a root of a cons tree, thats why i said that 23:24:07 <_3b> right, just a different way of thinking about that tree 23:24:28 yeah the left arm would be quite short tho 23:24:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:24:46 in most cases 23:24:57 -!- lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:25:02 and here the circle comes to an end ;D 23:25:27 i came to ask for a decent implementation to exactly have a decent base to explore 23:25:29 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:26:04 currently i just have my knowledge and how it should happen, i have never actually written lisp into a well defined environment 23:26:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:20 Hundenn: I don't think CLs will be very good didactic starting points 23:26:51 Hundenn: they are designed to do industrial-strength, general-purpose programming according to a relatively large standard. 23:26:53 hmmm, i dont know how bad it is to use a wrong dialect 23:27:07 keyvan [keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:11 <_3b> if you just want to learn how to use something like what you will be implementing, you might look at the subset of scheme used in books like SICP 23:27:15 It's not the dialect, it's the (necessary) complexity of serious implementation. 23:27:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:36 but anything that gives me info about what thing evaluates to true or false or whatnot and is somewhat a standard could probably help 23:27:39 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:27:41 methinks 23:27:41 Lisp in Small Pieces is a good book for learning about the implications of Lisp's ideas for implementors. 23:28:01 -!- keyvan1 [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:12 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:13 Lisp in Small Pieces 23:28:18 thats a book title? 23:28:37 that is a book title 23:29:10 longfin [~longfin@1.104.12.218] has joined #lisp 23:30:55 it starts off with a simple lisp interpreter and progresses to fast interpreters and compilers 23:31:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:44 so far i read mainly in 23:31:44 Lisp in Small Pieces 23:32:22 david S. touretzky - common lisp - a gentle introduction to symbolic comuputing 23:32:42 that sounds nice 23:34:29 i ll try to get my fingers at that one 23:34:33 thx 23:35:14 that book is available online 23:35:52 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has joined #lisp 23:36:04 lol as you said that i checked my 2nd screen where i googled it 23:36:17 and saw the download link 23:36:38 /page link 23:36:38 -!- 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