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01:16:50 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:17:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 01:18:09 beach, hello 01:19:49 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:19:57 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:11 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:28 deepfire: Hey, what's up? 01:21:44 hi beach 01:22:29 tr3x [~tr3x@93-138-64-188.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:25:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:27 zmv: Did you get your CLX problems straightened out? 01:30:19 beach: yeah, I'm using 1.0.46 now :) 01:31:37 zmv: What are you using CLX for, if I may ask? 01:32:07 beach: compiling StumpWM ;) 01:32:19 Oh, OK. 01:33:40 *zmv* hasn't even finished learning CL yet. 01:34:18 Whatever that means :P 01:34:23 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:34:24 -!- fmw [~fmw@541FD7B9.cm-5-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: fmw] 01:34:35 lol 01:34:46 I mean, finished learning the basics. 01:41:54 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:02 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:45:47 -!- ElizabethDysart [~Elizabeth@c-67-184-184-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:37 -!- Teeko [~Teeko@184.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Teeko] 01:48:43 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:55:14 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:34 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:19 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:18:37 -!- zakwilson_ is now known as zakwilson 02:24:51 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:08 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:26:49 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:26:49 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 02:27:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:27 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:30:08 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:41 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:13 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:33:31 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22348.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:36:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:37 rookiejet [~mazin@dhcp-0-f-3d-bc-41-3b.cpe.quickclic.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:10 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 02:47:27 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:57 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:07 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:24 clhs atan 02:50:28 minion: Where are you? 02:50:29 why do you want to know? 02:51:21 Does ccl officially support signed floating-point zeroes? 02:52:20 If so, the oct test suite says ccl gets two branch cuts wrong. 02:52:38 -!- rookiejet [~mazin@dhcp-0-f-3d-bc-41-3b.cpe.quickclic.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 02:54:01 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:55:28 waxrose [~waxrose@cpe-24-162-115-160.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:40 osoleve [~andy@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:18 could someone help me understand why pixel-expand-l doesn't work, while pixel-expand does? http://pastebin.com/Qq4D28n7 02:57:39 with input (2 3 3 4 5) it should output (2 3 2 2), but instead gives (2 2 2 2) 02:58:26 osoleve: `(setf ....) only computes a list. 02:58:52 If you want to generate code, you usually go through a macro. 02:58:58 so, (setf quadrant x) ? 02:59:15 that sets the variable named QUADRANT. 02:59:52 so how do i access the value of quadrant (which is, in turn, a variable)? 02:59:54 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:00:26 you use a macro. 03:00:45 (or, more accurately, you don't, since that would pretty much break lexical scoping) 03:03:15 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:07:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:09 okay, sorry if these are silly questions, but how about now? 03:08:12 http://codepad.org/zjrWWJaq 03:08:54 append returns a fresh list. 03:09:05 also, you probably want loop/collect 03:09:54 i can't do if x collect y else collect z, right? 03:10:18 sure. you can also collect (if ...) 03:10:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:30 nice, thanks 03:11:24 woooo, it works 03:11:27 you're amazing, thanks 03:12:04 last question. is this lispy? http://codepad.org/XHHViZWs 03:12:05 haha 03:13:46 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:14:08 there must be a better way than consing up all of these lists. I also prefer collect (if ...). 03:14:56 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15:30 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:16:56 -!- brennanc [~brennanc@adsl-71-135-165-16.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:19:00 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:21:18 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:22:34 -!- shaunren [~shaun@bas2-cooksville17-1279412276.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:38 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:28:27 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.217] has joined #lisp 03:28:31 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.217] has quit [Changing host] 03:28:31 cfy 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[~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:55:32 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 06:55:34 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 06:55:44 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@67.246.39.240] has joined #lisp 06:55:51 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:57:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 06:57:55 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 06:58:01 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.190.127] has joined #lisp 06:58:09 HI Lisper ! :X 06:58:47 Anyone here know where is the "Practical Common Lisp" free ebook on APress ? 06:59:10 =.=! Some ppl told me it's free but I didn't see it 07:00:50 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:00:53 js0000 [~js@67.208.188.68] has joined #lisp 07:02:13 Gmind: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 07:02:31 I was JUST GONNA LINK THAT 07:02:34 Gmind: You can probably find a PDF on filestube.com or somewhere but...just use the web site. Or buy from amazon. :) 07:02:38 Good job 07:02:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:59 jesusabd1llah: Now you have to get back to writing lisp. ;) 07:03:02 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:05 *redline6561* decides it is past his bedtime 07:03:16 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 07:03:23 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 07:03:46 Hah :D 07:05:56 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.200.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:08:08 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-xpvrlnkerraeijzr] has joined #lisp 07:08:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09:42 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:11:19 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rlpowell 07:13:38 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#lisp 07:22:32 fortyfour [~user@adsl-75-40-178-199.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:05 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:15 -!- fortyfour [~user@adsl-75-40-178-199.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 07:25:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:13 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:04 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:50 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:54 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:32:13 -!- jesusabd1llah is now known as jesusabdullah 07:38:53 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:39:20 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:39:23 oh thanks 07:39:36 can't find its PDF elsewhere on net 07:39:38 =.= 07:43:38 -!- Areil [~Areil@113.172.67.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:05 -!- Liera [~user@113.172.67.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:44:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:46:04 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cxqrysaywovxrxuo] has joined #lisp 07:46:04 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cxqrysaywovxrxuo] has quit [Changing host] 07:46:04 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:46:50 Gmind1 [~Nevermind@113.190.190.127] has joined #lisp 07:46:53 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:47:04 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 07:48:13 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.190.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:56 Areil [~Areil@123.20.29.26] has joined #lisp 07:49:12 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 07:51:23 mheld [~mheld@184.232.191.70] has joined #lisp 07:51:33 Liera [~user@123.20.29.26] has joined #lisp 07:52:26 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 07:52:50 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:58:09 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:58:29 good morning 07:59:13 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:00:31 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:33 leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.208] has joined #lisp 08:01:25 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@67.246.39.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:01:30 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-25-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:01:43 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:02:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:03 -!- mheld [~mheld@184.232.191.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:00 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-9-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:05:00 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:05:17 nefo [~nefo@202.112.3.6] has joined #lisp 08:05:17 -!- nefo [~nefo@202.112.3.6] has quit [Changing host] 08:05:17 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 08:06:24 mheld [~mheld@173.150.5.20] has joined #lisp 08:07:50 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:10:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:11:45 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:08 hi sunshine 08:14:18 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-205.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:18:14 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 08:18:51 -!- Spion__ [~spion@77.29.254.208] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:20:25 slash_ [~unknown@pD955CA36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:05 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 08:25:39 fusss [~fusss@120.153.167.237] has joined #lisp 08:26:11 is there a lightweight sqlite3 library out there? Something like Postmodern, lean & mean 08:27:15 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:29 let me revise that: is there an alternative to clsql for accessing sqlite3? 08:29:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:33:26 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:17 cxml tells me "URI scheme :HTTP not supported" when I try to parse an HTML string. code is triggered by #-cxml-system::uri-is-namestring; how am I supposed to set that? 08:37:29 -!- lanthan [~ze@80.64.176.30] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:38:03 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.153.167.237] has left #lisp 08:39:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:39:28 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75685a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:35 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:58 splittist [~splittist@174.118.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:41:06 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:14 morning 08:42:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:35 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:19 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:45:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:47:04 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:26 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:49:35 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:55:10 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host118.190-138-36.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 09:00:07 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-77-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:02:38 -!- mheld [~mheld@173.150.5.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:03:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:46 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-25-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:46 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 09:06:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:07:12 extra11 [~extra11@c-24-125-178-151.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:45 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-233-132.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:08:35 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:08:55 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:09:54 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 09:14:33 -!- extra11 [~extra11@c-24-125-178-151.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 09:14:39 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:53 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:58 -!- aoh_ is now known as aoh 09:17:57 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 09:17:57 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 09:18:37 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 09:18:50 -!- Davsebamse [~das@94.127.50.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:21:40 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:34 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:39 yo yo 09:29:44 anyone here using LispBox 09:29:46 ? 09:29:54 Where is the config file ? 09:30:02 (such as .emacs ) 09:30:19 it's too outdated to be used 09:31:11 or is someone working on updating it? 09:31:18 Gmind1: where did you get LispBox? 09:32:00 mason [~user@ip72-211-205-4.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:13 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:54 anybody here a developer for cl-opengl? 09:33:22 mason: _3b or |3b| 09:33:56 stassats: okay, thanks 09:34:41 i submitted a small path a while ago 09:34:51 and I wanted to bend someone's ear 09:35:01 but he doesn't seem to be here so... oh well 09:35:09 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 09:36:13 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-xpvrlnkerraeijzr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:36:32 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:36:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:51 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:37:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:39:32 stassats, I got it on common-lisp.net 09:39:34 :-? 09:39:43 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:39:46 yeah, that looks to be more recent 09:40:12 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-jyrpbfiorhsalnrk] has joined #lisp 09:42:04 ya 09:42:09 the slime version is 09:42:14 2011-04-02 09:42:20 I think it's quite new 09:42:21 :P 09:42:33 along with closure common lisp 09:43:02 but I am window so I want to ask for the config file of that 23.2 emacs 09:43:03 =.= 09:43:09 -!- Guest78588 is now known as cfy 09:43:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.217] has quit [Changing host] 09:43:10 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:43:48 good enough to get start with CL for beginner like me 09:43:48 :P 09:46:19 *kanru* installed LispBox 09:46:58 I really want to add some start-up command 09:46:59 =.= 09:47:03 please let me know.. 09:47:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:28 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:35 within emacs, do C-x C-f ~/.emacs --whatever that opens is your .emacs 09:47:38 C-x C-f ~/.emacs 09:47:47 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:47:49 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:48:34 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:15 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:49:21 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@109.236.139.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A28DE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:52:40 Davsebamse [~das@office.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 09:55:50 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:57:27 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:00:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:00:08 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-162-47.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:02:41 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-233-132.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:08:21 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host118.190-138-36.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 10:09:20 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 10:09:53 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:32 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 10:15:50 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:28 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-134-153.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:24:48 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:34 krsn [~krisna@static-mum-120.63.178.236.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 10:25:54 guys 10:26:04 please suggest some good impl of CL on .NET 10:26:05 :P 10:26:24 (perhaps they are too many and some are unstable ) 10:27:21 Gmind1: why do you need CL on .NET? 10:27:45 you can run java on .net and then run abcl on it 10:27:52 because I don't want to call C++ DLL on CL 10:28:01 minion: rmcl? 10:28:02 i believe there's one or two Schemes there, but no CL implementations that i know of target .net 10:28:08 err, how was it called 10:28:17 =.=! I knew there is IronScheme 10:28:23 minion: rdnzl? 10:28:30 But I want a CL impl here too 10:28:32 oh, right 10:28:41 -!- flow3r [~flow3r@61.111.10.20] has left #lisp 10:28:51 minion: wake up and do your duties, you piece of tin! 10:29:14 Gmind1: see http://weitz.de/rdnzl/ 10:29:27 Gmind1: rdnzl hooks a CL into .net from outside 10:29:31 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:30:08 =)) 10:30:20 this is exactly what I got weeks ago 10:30:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:25 what a Dejavu 10:30:50 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has joined #lisp 10:30:54 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.81] has quit [Changing host] 10:30:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:31:03 this channel has no side effects 10:31:20 Gmind1 run UABCL 10:31:57 hey guys 10:32:05 if I want to call C++ DLL in CL 10:32:13 that is managed code from VC++ 10:32:21 you canb yes 10:32:30 is there anyway short and simple way to do it ? 10:32:36 show me 10:32:37 :P 10:32:48 you have to pretend in UABCL that you are using Alegros Java interface 10:33:20 -!- spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-134-153.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: .] 10:33:22 and then ? 10:33:25 :-? 10:33:45 (in this case I have all .obj and header of that C++ lib ) 10:33:52 so it 10:33:59 not actually a single DLL 10:34:01 well most easiest way at first is to acces the C++ from C# code that looks like... 10:34:11 yes yes 10:34:18 that why I asked for .NET 10:34:29 but if there is a way to access directly to that C++ 10:34:35 then I should take it 10:35:02 =.= or I will try to build another .NET CL by F# 10:36:17 http://code.google.com/p/opensim4opencog/source/browse/trunk/lib/MushDLR223/ScriptEngines/ABCLInterpreter.cs 10:37:05 an interpreter inside C# ? 10:37:11 CSPrimitive : Primitive 10:37:12 { 10:37:36 well i compioled ABCL to a managed DLL with IKVM 10:38:00 then i started writinbg wrapper code to g0o both dirrections 10:38:32 the interpreter part of this is mainly so i can use the script eengine in secondlife 10:38:51 nice 10:39:02 :-? 10:39:14 eventualy i started hooking to even unmananged dlls 10:39:36 :| 10:39:42 what a life 10:39:54 via .net interface.. but anyhow 10:40:23 what i found the most usefull way to get ussualyl was to export exactly what i needed via a c# wrapper 10:40:38 then making that more generic as i went to make that job easier 10:41:10 but anyhow ABCL is the closest thing that runs in C# there is 10:41:32 i8 ported it once entirly to C# .. no IKVM.. but i dont find that very uefull 10:42:01 wasnt unusefull.. just wasnt any better than one fdriven by IKVM 10:42:28 do u know Yarr ? 10:42:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:43:04 not sure who that is 10:43:26 or is it a system? 10:43:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 btw: http://code.google.com/p/uabcl/ 10:44:52 Yarr on CodePlex 10:45:01 it's another minimal CL on .NET 10:45:19 but as it crash quite frequently 10:45:30 I don't feel like stable enough 10:45:41 wierd it crashes 10:46:14 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:22 i write a lot and use a ton of .net.. and it never crashes 10:46:43 i mean usinbg other people stuff never does 10:47:05 just odd when a project does ;) 10:47:42 usually thats easy to fix.. hard part is expandiong better feartures than just creating stability 10:48:51 but then again you muight be doing more searious stuff inside the lisp than they expected 10:49:28 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:59 a common mistake i guess yarr vcan make is stack overflows 10:50:56 like implemention of #'length for example might call (+1 (length cdr) 10:51:19 instead of using a while loop inside of a function 10:51:32 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBAFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:54 most implmentations are smart enough to avoid things like that.. eecpt the ones that claim purity 10:52:34 or simplicity of design whatnot 10:52:57 ussualy is a road to disaster 10:53:55 or ones claimning to compile directly to bytecode 10:54:04 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:54:53 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 10:54:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 10:54:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:55:52 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:56:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:58:07 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-162-47.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:59:06 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:00:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:00:26 joshy [~lehcror@CPE-58-164-215-2.lns11.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined 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[~stefan@gssn-5f75685a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:32:08 tfb [~tfb@92.41.2.254.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:32:19 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:09 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-205.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:35:26 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:32 -!- fisted_ [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Quit: brb] 12:37:48 micke` [~user@147.186.255.4] has joined #lisp 12:37:53 minion: memo for fuss: you may always use CFFI. sqlite3 is quite simple to interface directly to. Notably, from lisp, since its columns are not typed (its cells are). 12:38:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ywfscupddarhcwio] has left #lisp 12:39:53 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:45:20 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:47:25 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:48 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.123.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:49:11 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-176.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:51:30 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:52:36 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 12:52:58 SpitfireWP [Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 12:54:01 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:11 Teeko [~Teeko@184.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:17 What'cha call a function that takes a set of words and generates a state machine-ish matcher for those words? Is there something more specialized than a regexp library? 12:55:40 a lexer, or lexical analyser, or scanner. 12:55:50 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 12:55:55 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:04 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:14 regexps are equivalent to DFA, or to generate an optimized scanner, one can merge the DFA and optimize it. 12:56:45 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.204] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 On the other hand it is often enough to implement a quick and dirty scanner matching regexps in turn, if your tokens are easily identifiable from the first characters. 12:57:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:07 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-dktyoaxmmqxvgabq] has joined #lisp 12:58:14 ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-skmwhfqxxfvpxlkb] has joined #lisp 12:58:19 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:56 dmiles: does any of this work with SLIME? 13:00:35 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:01:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:01:24 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 13:01:25 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:02:50 chrnybo: libraries are listed on cliki: http://www.cliki.net/Text 13:03:20 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:03:33 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-peczaycenjaravzc] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:09:29 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:04 -!- df_aldur_ is now known as df_aldur 13:10:20 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:24 pjb: thanks for the terms. 13:14:47 kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-epyebplqokqmnyrc] has joined #lisp 13:15:17 ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nnbamfehfjyunppg] has joined #lisp 13:15:38 *Xach* stumbles across preyalone's http://speely.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/ircs-systemic-vitriol/ 13:17:37 "#lisp, providing blogging material since 2001" 13:17:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-176.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:05 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:18:23 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-dktyoaxmmqxvgabq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:33 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.47] has joined #lisp 13:18:44 -!- ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-skmwhfqxxfvpxlkb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:10 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5DDBAFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:22 So #clojure is ever harsher than #lisp? 13:20:38 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:22:11 fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 13:23:47 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-87-129.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:26:10 hi 13:26:27 may I copy a list into an hash table? 13:26:39 Posterdati: you may. 13:26:39 yes, you may 13:26:59 i have no objections whatsoever 13:27:02 every object in the list should be an entry in the hash + unique key 13:27:20 stassats: I'm happy then 13:27:28 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-wqwsmobcdpqrgnxh] has joined #lisp 13:28:29 stassats: how :) 13:28:33 Posterdati: see alexandria:hash-table-plist or alexandria:hash-table-alist 13:28:39 ok 13:28:48 but, why do you need that? 13:29:19 speely is a clear example of why I don't like blogging. There's a discussion in irc or usenet, and he just use the blog to have the last word (right or wrong, it doesn't matter). But it hasn't the same public and the original contenders cannot answer anymore. 13:29:56 Notice also how the blog owner can always censur the comments. 13:29:56 nothing can damage #lisp reputation any more 13:30:15 stassats: sure, and as I said, I don't care for blogs. 13:30:36 (I was reacting also to http://speely.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/brains-must-be-computers/ 13:30:36 urandom__ [~user@p548A4960.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:42 and "i don't give a damn about reputation" 13:31:13 pjb: yeah, i'm reading the logs with "preyalone", the author of this 13:32:06 koning_robot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 -!- koning_r1bot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:15 stassats: I'm reading a list of objects from a file. This is a collection of different structures, I need them to classify per type and then make search operation over different types 13:35:41 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@109.236.139.194] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 so, you're doing serialization? 13:36:29 stassats: no, I wrote a list on a disk then I read it back 13:36:38 so, that's serialization? 13:36:42 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C5EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:23 stassats: well I don't care about data organization in the file 13:38:02 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:07 pjb: and about censoring comments, comments for that post are closed altogether 13:38:30 :-) 13:38:37 stassats: this is the file on disk http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#1 13:38:46 MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.67] has joined #lisp 13:38:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:05 Posterdati: perhaps you should maintain several lists? 13:39:21 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 13:39:21 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:21 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 13:39:23 pjb: I did a single list of object type "element" 13:39:31 Posterdati: as for the file, you may store serveral objects in them, using several print to write, and serveral read to read. 13:39:51 Posterdati: you may also store a single list of lists, or a single a-list. 13:40:10 pjb: please take a look http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#1 13:40:20 Posterdati: perhaps http://cl-www.msi.co.jp/projects/manardb/ helps you? I'm not altogether sure what you want. 13:40:21 have you considered an existing solution for serialization? 13:40:30 (acons :type1 (list s11 s12 s13) (acons :type2 (list s21 s22 s23) ... '())...) 13:40:34 cl-store, rucksack ...? 13:40:46 (type-of) or generics might help? 13:40:48 stassats: no, not at this level 13:41:14 at which level? using something already written is good at any level 13:41:18 Posterdati: instead of a type field, you should have structures of different types. 13:41:35 Posterdati: remember that structures are classes with single inheritance (defstruct (node (:type element)) ...) 13:42:08 pbj: ok 13:42:32 Otherwise, (there may be reason to have a single class (structure)), if you don't want to keep the different "types" on different lists, you may sort them, using the right comparison. 13:42:33 pbj: how can I discriminate from different type as I have them all in a list? 13:42:33 pjb: do you mean :include? 13:42:47 Yes. Oops. :include. 13:42:51 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:00 -!- ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nnbamfehfjyunppg] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:43:24 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:12 pjb: do you mean a base type and diffent types that actually :include the common slots (base type)? 13:45:22 Yes. 13:45:29 ok 13:45:30 Posterdati: to discriminate use (type-of), typecase, or use methods on the types 13:45:43 flip214: ok 13:45:45 You may also use defmethod discriminating structure types. 13:45:55 stay tuned I'm going to try right now :) thanks 13:46:02 "I had to go to #scheme to configure Common Lisp" -- is speely mcandre? https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/725881 is the only other time i can recently recall where someone talks about #scheme helping them get a lisp working 13:46:29 He failed to notice that the intersection of #lisp and #scheme people is big. 13:47:18 ok, speely clearly is mcandre: https://speely.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/i-just-want-hunchentoot/ 13:47:49 nikodemus: mcandre/preyalone 13:48:15 oh, that anonymity 13:48:16 *stassats* wants a pony 13:48:52 it promotes aggression, donchaknow :) 13:49:10 Andrew Pennebaker is his actual name. 13:50:16 that said, i hope someone like drewc or nyef who has way more experience of running sbcl on xen chimes in and says what the issues are and which xen versions to avoid 13:50:59 *pjb* is clenching his tiny fists. 13:51:07 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:51:23 greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:51:25 -!- kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-epyebplqokqmnyrc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:52:05 Well, I'm not sure it's specific to sbcl. When I tried Xen 3 last year, I had a lot of problems with it too. configure scripts failed when testing for various signal handling stuff, etc. 13:52:20 It might be more related to the processor, I guess. 13:54:27 MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.67] has joined #lisp 13:55:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:57:30 pjb: it can't be specific to SBCL. Whatever the problem is, you could reduce it to an independent C program that doesn't behave the same as an unvirtualised system when under some versions of Xen. In fact, I believe foom did just that a couple years ago. 13:58:14 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:00:23 kauwgom [~reid@pool-173-53-248-17.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bollcryxwkqgljes] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bollcryxwkqgljes] has quit [Changing host] 14:00:44 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955EAF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:05 i talked about xen to drewc/nyef a couple of years ago, and my vague recollection is that there were good version and bad versions, and a patch you needed. ...but overall my impression was that modern xen should be fine -- dunno if that's changed, or if my understanding was overly optimistic 14:02:26 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 14:03:07 nikodemus: Last I heard about that, Xen > 3.something (?) was fine. 14:04:11 -!- _reid [~reid@pool-71-186-127-197.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:06:01 Tau [~tau@189-127-59-114.i-next.psi.br] has joined #lisp 14:08:22 LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 14:08:23 -!- LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has left #lisp 14:08:28 btbngr [~Matt@188.28.111.31.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:10:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:39 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:11:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:21 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.120.16] has joined #lisp 14:20:04 nikodemus, did you discover anything interesting wrt. that cxml problem? 14:21:48 minion: memo for fusss: that cxml message means that your document references something (a DTD most likely), and by default cxml won't attempt to load DTDs over the network. 14:22:11 minion: bad bot 14:23:20 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-100-243.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:24:24 -!- greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:16 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-58-151.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 14:25:20 -!- Teeko [~Teeko@184.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:25:37 mk2` [~user@159.92.65.64] has joined #lisp 14:26:27 Rukowen [~Rukowen@123.20.13.10] has joined #lisp 14:26:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:29:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:30:41 greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:32:16 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:34:31 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:54 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:36:18 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-kpcqgufqzslgpiti] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:11 hey. is there some implemention for clisp which be better than sbcl ? 14:38:22 i mean, it is fucking weird to use it as an interpreter. 14:38:31 <_3b> 'clisp' is the name of an implementation of common lisp 14:38:47 it isn't like python intepreter where you can typethings and use the arrows to move along the line. 14:38:49 Tau: clisp includes a compiler, just as any other implementation, to optimize. 14:39:03 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:09 python is the name of the compiler of sbcl. 14:39:13 <_3b> if you mean 'common lisp' rather than 'clicp' it depends on what you mean by 'better' 14:39:13 and cmucl. 14:39:31 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:41 Tau: clisp includes readline (that's why it's GPL). sbcl doesn't but you can use rlwrap, or emacs. 14:39:43 Tau: most people who use SBCL do it through SLIME, these days. 14:39:47 _3b, something like an interface to program. 14:39:52 hum. 14:39:56 i use vim. 14:39:57 emacs is a user interface plus an OS. 14:40:08 Here is your error, you use vim. Stop it. Use emacs. 14:40:09 lol 14:40:10 an os 14:40:12 how so 14:40:16 Tau: Nobody has made an environment as nice as slime for vim, yet. 14:40:18 hum. 14:40:22 but i have spent hours learning vim. 14:40:24 Tau: you might be the one to do it! 14:40:25 You can try rlwrap or linedit. 14:40:32 Linedit works pretty well with sbcl. 14:40:32 Tau, I have 'alias sbcl="rlwrap -b \$BREAK_CHARS sbcl"' in my ~/.bashrc 14:40:33 Tau: It only lacks a kernel: http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html 14:40:36 Xach, lol 14:40:43 Tau: use slimv for now; a replacement using swank is in work. 14:40:45 pjb, LOL 14:41:01 Tau: too bad for you, you've been ill adviced to learn vim. 14:41:11 Tau: I did the mistake too, having learn vi before emacs. 14:41:16 Tau, where BREAK_CHARS="\"#'(),;\`\\|!?[]{}" 14:41:19 Tau: but it's not too late to correct that mistake. 14:41:21 <_3b> vim doesn't seem to be as well suited as emacs, given the number of failed attempts to replicate slime in vim :( 14:42:00 _3b: of course it's easier to talk to lisp in a lisp, even if it's just elisp ;-) 14:42:18 however i like vim. 14:42:31 Tau: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 14:42:37 i would like to be able of knowing both. 14:42:56 flip214, i will take a look. 14:43:24 Tau: contrarily to women, vim won't make you a scene if you go to bed with emacs. 14:43:55 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yzrodcxxifpesnek] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:08 Tau: on the other hand, since they default key bindings are quite different in either editor, you might have difficulties switching. 14:44:32 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:11 pjb, yes. 14:45:24 In anycase, I think the best advice I ever had in CS stuff, is to use emacs. I'm just sorry I didn't start using it earler, losing a few years with MPW and TextEdit.app... 14:45:24 pjb, lol 14:45:38 pjb, me too. 14:46:11 unfortunately i switched to vim when i should have picked up emacs. 14:46:28 i feel like having to learn a lot of new things when i don't have that time. 14:46:30 As I said, it's never too late to correct errors. 14:46:56 Tau: don't worry, anyways emacs is too big to be able to learn it entirely. You will constantly be learning new stuff with emacs. 14:46:57 benny [~benny@i577A3889.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:04 Up and Beyond! 14:47:21 i see. 14:47:36 alright. i'm gonna learn emacs. 14:48:00 yay! 14:48:01 Tau: first thing when you launch emacs, it's C-h t to get the tutorial. Control-h and t. 14:48:02 emacs is awesome 14:48:20 pjb, i see. 14:48:23 *Tau* starting 14:48:38 *j_king* switched from vim a couple of years ago (after being hardcore vim person for 10 years..) 14:49:26 j_king, that is a lot of time. 14:49:33 you are corageous ! 14:50:23 i will be off unveiling the emacs's secrets. 14:50:26 see you all. 14:50:29 -!- Tau is now known as tau\off 14:50:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:23 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 14:51:33 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 14:52:56 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:55 milkpost [~milkpost@129.255.229.95] has joined #lisp 14:56:12 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:56:41 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:57:52 mascotte [mascotte__@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-110-28.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:59:51 fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 15:01:26 -!- mascotte [mascotte__@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-110-28.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:58 morning 15:04:43 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.192.10] has joined #lisp 15:04:44 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-87-129.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:36 -!- basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6E20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:57 pjb: now the problem is that I've got the following data: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#2 15:07:21 -!- tau\off is now known as Tau 15:07:32 where can i find examples of lisp programs ? 15:07:34 basic examples. 15:07:42 does someone know a good font ? 15:08:01 Tau: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a good place to start to learn Common Lisp 15:08:02 <_3b> cliki and github, books about lisp, fixed 15:08:05 pjb my select/where functions are those: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#3 15:08:32 Xach, nice. 15:09:15 pjb: they won't work! (e.g.: (where-element :type ...) 15:11:29 Tay, I use http://fractal.csie.org/~eric/wiki/Terminus_font 15:11:32 pjb: shall I create where-xxxx functions based on types I created? 15:11:35 Tau, sorry 15:11:49 deepfire, hm. k 15:12:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:47 Tau, it's probably in your distribution's repository, if you use linux 15:12:50 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:48 deepfire, yes. 15:13:53 alright. 15:14:40 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-klgtxzdudpfgukwt] has joined #lisp 15:15:06 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-klgtxzdudpfgukwt] has quit [Changing host] 15:15:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:15:45 -!- fmw [~fmw@541FD7B9.cm-5-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:47 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:16:19 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrForr 15:18:07 aww quicklisp even edited my rc file for me. Xach that's so cute :) 15:18:12 ty 15:19:39 No problem! 15:21:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.214.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:30 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-kpcqgufqzslgpiti] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:27:37 I'm installing a 50-desire.conf file in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ for the purpose of asdf hookup. 15:27:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:20 I presume (probably mistakingly) that this is the reason why quicklisp needs to edit ~/.lisprc 15:28:22 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-153-203.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:28:31 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:52 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.134.6] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 sacho [~sacho@87-126-37-121.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 15:29:09 Yes, you are mistaken. 15:29:53 Xach, why do you do it? 15:30:07 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-jyrpbfiorhsalnrk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:08 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:08 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-zpasvhvuuosushva] has joined #lisp 15:30:15 deepfire: quicklisp is initialized by loading a lisp file. the rc file updates are to load that file. 15:30:20 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.106] has joined #lisp 15:30:20 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.106] has quit [Changing host] 15:30:20 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:30:50 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:11 Xach, ah, interesting.. do you also hook up into require? 15:31:15 deepfire: No. 15:31:26 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:37 herbie_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:03 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:33 -!- Davsebamse [~das@office.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:36 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75685a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:51 -!- greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:38:42 greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:41:23 I tried to compile MAXIMA with the latest version of abcl but got no luck. can anyone help me? 15:41:47 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:42:21 is maxima programmed in lisp ? 15:42:26 common lisp i mean. 15:42:28 tcleval: what happened when you tried? 15:42:54 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has joined #lisp 15:44:03 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-zpasvhvuuosushva] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:15 Tau, yes. the default distribution uses sucky GCL, but it works, still 15:45:16 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:45:34 Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:45:40 weirdo, heh. 15:45:56 last time i checked i could compile it against SBCL and it worker 15:45:58 worked 15:47:02 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:49:23 Xach it gave an error, and stopped compilation 15:51:22 schaueho [~user@82.113.99.39] has joined #lisp 15:51:27 tcleval: Maybe someone can recognize the error and help fix it if you share it somewhere like paste.lisp.org 15:52:19 Xach: I am compiling it again and waiting for the error message, as soon as I get it I am going to post it 15:56:23 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120282 15:56:38 some file is missing 15:57:25 there exist share-subdirs.lisp.in but not share-subdirs.lisp 15:58:12 tcleval: Is ABCL a supported implementation for Maxima? 15:58:24 -!- Jacke_ is now known as Jacke 15:59:04 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:59:52 Xach the wiki says you can compile with it, ABCL guys said it passed maxima test suite, but ./configure does not recognize maxima yet to this date. I loaded abcl and :ld maxima-build, and (maxima-compile) from abcl 16:01:33 mstevens_ [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 16:04:06 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:04:08 tcleval: What version of maxima are you using? 16:04:51 pevaneyn1 [~pevaneyn@77.109.101.132] has joined #lisp 16:05:14 rtoym: Maxima 5.23.2 with ABCL .24, and now I renamed that file share-subdirs.lisp.in to share-subdirs.lisp and now maxima compiled :-), (run) it is running inside abcl :-) 16:06:10 It would be nice to see maxima in quicklisp. 16:06:50 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@109.236.139.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:50 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4960.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:52 tcleval: Yeah, some files need configure to create them. But now you won't have access to any of the share files. If people really want to build with abcl, I might be persuaded to put in the appropriate hooks in configure to support abcl. 16:07:58 -!- schaueho [~user@82.113.99.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:13 And without running make, you get no help info either. That's really important to me because I can never remember exactly what all the functions do. 16:08:32 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:58 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.101.132] has joined #lisp 16:13:21 urandom__ [~user@p548A4B25.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:23 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B327E0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:54 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082AA16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:16 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:38 -!- pevaneyn1 [~pevaneyn@77.109.101.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:15:25 mstevens_ [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 16:16:12 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:25 rtoym: can it be prebuilt? 16:16:30 -!- micke` [~user@147.186.255.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:17:08 Xach: The info files or the other configure-created files? 16:17:38 rtoym: the info files. 16:17:50 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:18:11 Hmm. Actually the missing share-subdirs.lisp file is because I couldn't figure out how to get gcl to create a list of directories. I figure that out for just about all the other lisps, but not gcl. 16:18:42 Xach: Yeah, the info files can be prebuilt. Binary distributions include prebuilt info files. 16:18:54 Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:12 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:19:27 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-mebdvnmjgdgvwvmd] has joined #lisp 16:20:27 Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:20:37 What else do binary distributions prebuild? 16:21:56 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-mebdvnmjgdgvwvmd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:02 The executables (binaries or images) of course. share-subdirs.lisp. Can't think of anything else. 16:22:12 *rtoym* doesn't use prebuilt maxima. 16:22:34 rtoym: it bundles a CL implementation? 16:22:39 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:42 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-qojnsuqalohzasgj] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:04 Yes, the binaries provide some Lisp. Depends on the platform and the builder, I think. 16:23:24 Neat. 16:24:06 Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:24:10 Who here is going to ECLM 2011? 16:24:23 Not me. :-( 16:24:26 I /may/ be going 16:24:33 this is not decided yet 16:24:35 I am very likely going. 16:24:40 wow! 16:24:41 awesome! 16:24:50 *Xach* has never been to Europe before 16:25:12 I have once. It was incredibly fun. 16:25:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:23 even with a flu :/ 16:25:44 Don't drink alcohol on trans-Atlantic flights 16:26:00 yes, it's a seriously bad idea 16:26:19 also, the long-haul travel tips that Charlie Stross provided a while back are very sensible 16:26:19 there is an ECLM this year? 16:26:23 yes! 16:26:32 erm. 16:26:34 ELS 16:26:38 aha. 16:26:38 ELS, guys (: 16:26:42 it's in Hamburg at the end of march 16:26:55 Oh, you are not going to ELS? 16:26:59 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:26:59 Err, ECLM? 16:27:05 I am going to ECLM, but not ELS. 16:27:10 no, it's ELS for me 16:27:11 lichtblau: There is an ECLM. 16:27:12 oh noes (: 16:27:32 *Xach* spots who does not reload planet lisp every 90 seconds 16:28:02 not even google has info on that yet (: 16:28:12 *Xach* tweets and blogs 16:28:16 but yay, I might be able to do october 16:28:34 ELS should be more interesting for me as its timing also coincides with other things (-: 16:28:49 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-qojnsuqalohzasgj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:56 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:32:46 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:33:04 hm, is there a way to strip spurious ^M's in slime's REPL under win32? 16:35:11 *splittist* is disappointed that the ECLM date conflicts with the World Cup final ): 16:36:30 In October? 16:40:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.208] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.2] 16:41:14 VincentLee [~vincentle@121.140.17.179] has joined #lisp 16:41:25 Xach: Indeed. And on the other side of the world, too. (Transatlantic is not 'long haul'...) 16:41:56 How many world cups are there? 16:42:08 Almost one for each sport. 16:42:15 Which one were you thinking of? 16:42:20 Sport, that is. 16:42:22 Rugby, of course. 16:42:48 :)) 16:45:58 schaueho [~user@82.113.99.39] has joined #lisp 16:50:22 Posterdati: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#4 16:50:22 -!- schaueho [~user@82.113.99.39] has quit [Client Quit] 16:53:03 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:55:48 Posterdati: and http://paste.lisp.org/display/120257#5 16:56:58 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:22 Perhaps eventually we could have a permanent worldwide lisp conference, running on a boat that would cruse around the world, taking and leaving lispers along the way. It would be the LispBoat. 16:59:37 L. Ron Garrett's C Org 16:59:55 or maybe Ciel Org 16:59:56 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:00:06 -!- larva_ [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:19 Sprayzor [529f73ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.159.115.173] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 17:01:35 Xach: lol 17:02:08 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-aaeitgwonltbufzi] has joined #lisp 17:02:16 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:47 *Xach* is ready to sign the billion year lisp contract! 17:02:57 leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.208] has joined #lisp 17:03:11 kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 17:03:33 basho__ [~basho__@p4FDA6E20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:53 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:06:26 pnq [~nick@AC81640F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:14 mheld [~mheld@108.126.19.168] has joined #lisp 17:08:06 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:08:37 btbngr1 [~Matt@92.40.210.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:08:37 splittist: heh, didn't the 2006 ECLM intersect with the world cup also? 17:08:58 although that was in germany back then. guess that would have been easier (: 17:09:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.67] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:13 antifuchs: no, the ECLM was before. (I'm pretty sure I was at both...) 17:10:20 I'm starting to wonder if X was designed as a practical joke 17:10:37 -!- btbngr [~Matt@188.28.111.31.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:04 brodo_ [~brodo@p5B024204.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:19 drdo: I thought that was generally assumed to be the case. 17:11:26 splittist: ah, could be. there certainly was a lot of pre-event hype in Hamburg 17:12:21 Odin-: It's quite hard trying to do anything remotely complicated, like setting the border color 17:12:54 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:29 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023412.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:13:29 -!- brodo_ is now known as brodo 17:15:13 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024204.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:28 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:15:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:46 Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:16:53 -!- btbngr1 is now known as btbngr 17:17:14 picasse [~anis@41.98.14.47] has joined #lisp 17:18:05 -!- btbngr [~Matt@92.40.210.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has left #lisp 17:18:25 jdz [~jdz@host29-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:18:41 MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.67] has joined #lisp 17:19:08 cisco http://informatiq-help.blogspot.com/2011/03/cisco-reseau-formation.html 17:19:27 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@123.20.13.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:51 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o antifuchs 17:19:58 -!- picasse [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has been kicked from #lisp by antifuchs (link spam? really?) 17:20:27 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-58-151.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:40 antifuchs: do you know who else will be at ELS this month? (Is there one of these cool tables of all participants, the way ECLM usually had them?) 17:20:59 I don't know if there is. there's the speakers, at least (: 17:21:50 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-58-151.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 17:22:39 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 17:25:31 picasse [~anis@41.98.14.47] has joined #lisp 17:25:34 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:34 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:27:47 lichtblau: I was looking forward to go to ELS2011, but unfortunately it won't be possible. :-( 17:28:03 If only it was webcasted... 17:28:12 -!- picasse [~anis@41.98.14.47] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:28:41 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:43 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:29:27 yeah, well, webcasting of IRL meetings pretty much defeats the purpose 17:29:42 IRL is an illusion in any case. 17:30:00 Or do you think you are seeing? 17:30:03 -!- osoleve is now known as BiggieSmalls 17:30:16 -!- BiggieSmalls is now known as osoleve 17:30:17 masonium [~user@vpn.tgsmc.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:34 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 pjb: are you a solipsist ? 17:33:30 is it just me or is it solipsistic in here? 17:33:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.39] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:34:29 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:03 Teeko [~Teeko@184.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:37:38 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:16 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:38:18 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:39 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:40:27 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-79-125-33-146.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:37 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@host29-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:13 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.14/20110218125750]] 17:45:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81640F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:45 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:52 larva_ [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:59 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-79-125-33-146.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:49:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C5EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:50:06 Hah, Miniatur Wunderland 17:50:40 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-175-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:35 nipra [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has joined #lisp 17:52:58 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.84.67] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:27 nipra_ [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has joined #lisp 17:53:27 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:37 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:41 -!- nipra_ [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:49 nipra [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has joined #lisp 17:54:47 so, both ELS and ECLM for me then 17:55:23 Hooray! 17:55:38 Is there anything like jasperreports for CL? 17:55:40 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:50 I'm glad you're willing to miss the cricket and rugby world cups. 17:56:05 cesarbp: I doubt it, but maybe. What does jasperreports do? 17:56:10 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.192.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:11 -!- greaver [~greaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:56:30 creates reports, forms, etc. in various formats 17:56:41 cesarbp: I haven't heard of anything like that. 17:56:43 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:57:00 :p 17:57:12 cesarbp: How many formats it can generate? eg? 17:57:33 well like html, pdf, excel 17:58:43 cesarbp: When I am analyzing data in Lisp, I tend to write out CSV files to send to people (possibly with excel conversion first). I don't have sophisticated report needs. 17:59:23 jdz [~jdz@host29-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:59:29 personally I have the need for a good report generation tool, but those tools are all nightmares 18:00:02 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-172-213.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:00:07 I thought xml and xst was supposed to cure all that. Oh.. 18:00:10 *Xach* has used cl-pdf in a very low-level way to draw one-off printed reports 18:00:12 I want something I can program without using a GUI, while allowing non-programmers to customize it without my help later. 18:00:17 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:23 So that stuff ends up being done in excel, and both sides lose. :-) 18:00:32 o.o 18:01:28 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 18:03:56 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-162-47.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:44 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:51 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-176.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:06:37 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.109] has joined #lisp 18:08:51 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.2.254.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:43 lichtblau: dunno, excel seems like a decent-enough tool for entry-level to high-level reporting stuff 18:09:46 cl-pdf is a very nice little library. 18:10:12 i've been wading through a sizable project in reportlab low these many weeks, and my work would have been much easier /w cl-pdf. :P 18:10:38 fe[nl]ix: more than solipsism, I'm refereing to neurology, showing that perceptions are synthesized by the brain, and don't reflect (necessarily) reality. 18:11:03 the art of capacity planning recommends it (: 18:12:28 -!- Patzy_ [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:36 fe[nl]ix: for example, watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSJxLNbQRLk&feature=related 18:13:44 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:14:30 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:19:37 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:19:48 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:23:53 how can i define variables in lisp ? like i would do in python x = 4 18:24:00 how does it work in lisp ? 18:24:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@host29-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:12 i'm reading a tutorial here and it haven't explained it. 18:24:19 and i thought of writting something which depends on it. 18:24:23 <_3b> let, defvar, defparameter 18:24:34 what tutorial are you reading? 18:24:53 minion: tell Tau about PCL 18:25:22 ah, no bot 18:25:29 _3b: i sent a pull request to the cl-opengl repo 18:25:31 Tau: Practical Common Lisp 18:26:06 <_3b> masonium: merged it earlier today 18:26:08 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 18:26:09 _3b, what are the main difference between those ways of defining vars ? 18:26:16 Fade, humm. 18:26:19 _3b: great, thanks 18:26:21 Fade, i will read that after this one. 18:26:31 i have started this then i think i should finish this one first. 18:26:31 Tau: which one are you reading now? 18:26:41 <_3b> LET defines a lexical variable, limited to a particular scope (or binds a special variable) 18:26:45 lisp uses lexical scope, which means that there's generally a lot less global state than you'd see in a python program. 18:26:59 'lisp a gentle introduction'. 18:27:19 Fade, i see. 18:27:32 so variables are introduced as parameters to functions, or within the bounds of a (let ((var value)(var value)) ..) structure. 18:27:54 _3b, so, let x 2 creates a variable named x holding 2, right ? 18:28:08 bound to the value 2 18:28:08 if you want something like a global, that's done like (defvar *myspecial* value) 18:28:14 Fade, if i do (let x 2) and then i want to retain this value , how can i do ? 18:28:15 <_3b> defvar and defparameter define 'special' or dynamically scoped variables (sort of like a global) 18:28:22 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-111-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:25 like (let x 2) then (+ x 1) 18:28:34 would it hold ? 18:28:42 _3b, i see. 18:28:43 Tau: (let x 2) is not legal CL, for starters 18:29:02 Tau: (let ((x 2)) (+ x 1)) would be what you want 18:29:12 x would be bound as long as you're still inside the let form 18:29:12 mason, oh, nice. 18:29:19 ah. i got that mason . 18:29:20 <_3b> (let ((x 2)) ...) creates a variable binding X with the value 2 within the ... in that form 18:29:35 yes. (let (x 2) ..here x exists..) 18:29:37 alright. 18:29:39 nice. 18:29:45 Tau: Incorrect. 18:29:47 no. the double parens are important 18:30:15 all parens are important 18:30:24 every paren is sacred 18:30:26 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:27 Isn't it time to say, "Go read a book"? 18:30:28 Tau: (let ((x 2) (y 1)) (+ x y)) would be an example with multiple variables bound 18:30:51 mason, i see. 18:30:56 Tau: and also suggests why double parens are important 18:30:57 see the gigamonkeys link above. PCL is an excellent introduction, and it's available online as well as in bookstores. 18:30:57 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:31:00 Tau: just start with PCL 18:31:06 Tau: yeah 18:31:12 alright. 18:31:19 i will start with pcl. 18:31:29 I started with ansi common lisp :p 18:31:30 tht's a winning move. :) 18:31:37 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441213.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:42 cesarbp: so did i, but it's not online 18:31:42 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:33:04 Fade, k 18:34:51 I don't think ANSI Common Lisp is a very good first Common Lisp book. 18:35:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-110-39.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:40 it was my first lisp book, and it was good enough to make my curious 18:35:43 s/my/me 18:35:52 xach: not that I necessarily disagree, but why not? 18:35:59 Mine too. But I can't go back in time. 18:36:24 masonium: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html has some good starting points. 18:36:29 PG isn't very ideomatic in his lispery, and he's got a chip on his shoulder about clos. 18:36:51 and about loop 18:36:58 yeah 18:37:16 masonium: It doesn't describe CL very well, but a subset/hybrid that Paul Graham prefers. Shabby treatment of packages, CLOS, loop, conditions, and similar things. Odd variable and function names. Odd choice of control structures. 18:37:27 -!- mheld [~mheld@108.126.19.168] has quit [Quit: mheld] 18:37:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:44 I like Practical Common Lisp and Paradigms of AI Programming much more as introductions to CL. 18:37:54 PAIP is _excellent_ 18:38:17 i got a copy of AMOP for christmas that has also been great. 18:38:21 xach: yeah i've read through enough of PCL to agree that it's probably a better intro 18:38:33 it's been a while since I looked through ACL, though 18:38:38 *Xach* must read Land of Lisp sometime 18:38:43 also, PG likes anaphoric macros and he called Kaa a giant earthworm! 18:39:04 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75685a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:11 i need a copy of Keene (89) to complete my lisp library. 18:39:26 complete! 18:39:30 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442493.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:39:32 Do you have Lisp Style & Design? 18:39:53 obviously that was a hasty use of the word "complete" 18:40:03 when what I meant was "complete the basic collection" 18:40:40 (no) 18:41:06 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:31 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41:57 Fade: I'm supposed to get an answer from Elsevier regarding releasing that book to the public. 18:42:11 that would be awesome. 18:42:35 i looked at Powel's the last time I was in Portland, and they didn't have a copy. 18:42:50 I found one on amazon used, once, but the seller wanted a couple hundred bucks. 18:43:38 yeah it's basically un-purchaseable 18:44:02 I'll call them again today, they haven't got back to me in two weeks 18:44:55 Xach: have you read Lisp Style & Design? 18:46:03 Fade: no. 18:46:50 the table of contents looks great. 18:47:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:13 I think I browsed it on amazon or google's book thing. Looked neat. 18:47:24 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:47:39 rien: Have you considered or offered paying someone for the rights? 18:48:12 Xach: I'd love to if they could pinpoint for me who has the rights effectively. 18:49:33 http://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Programming-Common-Lisp-Programmers/dp/0201175894 18:49:40 you mean that? 18:50:22 i mean I need a copy ofthat because I don't have one, but I was talking about Lisp Style & Design after Xach mentioned it. 18:51:10 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.134.6] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726]] 18:51:56 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:54:14 is there something in lisp like map in pytho ? 18:54:24 Tau: map 18:54:27 i mean, obvious it exists, however, what is it ? 18:54:28 yeah 18:54:29 i see. 18:54:32 dlowe, nice. 18:54:53 Tau: there's mapcar and friends, too 18:54:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:14 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:08 i was trying to write a 'map' i named it as 'while'. 18:56:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.109] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:56:59 Tau: It will be better to continue reading your book instead of asking questions like "is there something in lisp like map". 18:57:05 At least asking them here. 18:57:31 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.169.203] has joined #lisp 18:57:31 Xach, k 18:57:33 true. 18:58:51 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 18:59:43 *rtoym* tries to figure out why oct doesn't work with clisp anymore. 19:00:20 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.29.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03:22 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.109] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host89-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:10:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:11:15 what is oct? 19:11:47 octal? octrees? octogons? octoberfest? 19:12:40 it's ungoogleable 19:12:46 http://common-lisp.net/project/oct/ 19:13:38 *stassats* plans to beat its ungooglability with a project for decimal floating point arithmetic named Dec 19:14:16 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:14:21 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 19:14:27 stassats: first hit for "lisp oct" on google. 19:14:31 pjb: I'm reading your pastes for me :) thanks. Why are class better than structures, for methods? (like c++ classes)? 19:15:04 pkhuong: that means that google improved 19:15:31 oh, no, it didn't, since oct lisp isn't helpful 19:16:10 i want to build a function that receives a function and a list like (eval-func func list) and it returns the evalution of func receving list as data. 19:16:22 so if i did (eval-func + (1 2)) it would return 3. 19:16:32 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 19:16:35 in python i would do func(*(1, 2,3) 19:16:42 ) 19:16:55 are you sure? 19:17:11 stassats, if function were defined as def func(x, y, z): body. 19:17:12 yes 19:17:25 i would like to know how to pass a list as argument to a function in lisp. 19:17:28 anyway, there's already such a function, it's named APPLY 19:17:35 Tau: for real, read that damn book 19:18:08 cmm, but i'm just having ideas. 19:18:16 i learn better so. 19:18:20 i have a idea then i write it down. 19:18:39 sorry, #lisp isn't a place for such ideas 19:19:07 Tau: maybe someone wouldn't mind tutoring you in private, but the discussion is not good for everyone to see. 19:19:23 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-174128.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:38 for some fee, especially 19:19:39 Xach, sure. 19:19:41 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4B25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:55 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.29.26] has quit [Quit: Time for sleeping!] 19:20:02 Xach, that is ridiculous. 19:20:07 but, alright. 19:20:58 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.172] has joined #lisp 19:22:47 you can write a blog post about it 19:23:54 heh. 19:24:05 Tau: Sorry, this channel is not a good place for step-by-step tutorial introduction to Lisp. Maybe there is some other channel that is. 19:24:13 just curiousity, Xach and stassats , if this channel isn't supposed to handle those questions, what is this channel supposed to handle ? 19:24:38 Tau: Questions about using Common Lisp to solve problems unrelated to learning common lisp are good. 19:24:51 Tau: discussion of implementing common lisp is also pretty good. 19:25:16 wasn't there #lisp-cafe? 19:25:27 Questions related to understanding Common Lisp, too. 19:25:28 #lispcafe 19:25:29 Xach, that is a bit weird. if in the #lisp it isn't permited to make questions related to learning lisp where could we ask that ? 19:25:37 wow 19:25:59 i thought it were a kind of place where people could share knowledge on lisp. 19:26:00 Tau: I don't know, sorry. The book will answer the questions, if you read it. 19:26:10 Tau: You can pose questions, but only questions that aren't absolutely retarded 19:26:29 drdo, retarded is your last observation. 19:26:33 <_3b> Tau: if all the knowledge being shared is trivial, the people interested in higher level knowledge will all leave, and everyone loses 19:26:34 The questions you are asking are answered in the first chapter of any lisp book 19:26:41 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:51 Tau: Yes, this is a good place to share knowledge about Common Lisp, but the most basic, elementary knowledge is not shared here. 19:26:51 i don't think so, drdo . 19:26:52 <_3b> (except to the extent that they get more done due to not being on #lisp all the time i suppose) 19:27:05 PCL is a prerequisite reading for this channel 19:27:19 tronador__ [~guille@190.66.178.203] has joined #lisp 19:27:40 Oh no! I have to leave then! I haven't finished reading all of PCL. 19:27:43 drdo, i have read 1 hour of lisp. i have been trying to write other things which aren't explained in the chapter which i'm reading. 19:27:44 *dlowe* never read it, but was grandfathered in 19:27:44 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.169.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:45 -!- tronador__ is now known as tronador_ 19:28:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:38 Tau: moving into more complex things before you master basic language structures and features is usually not a good pedagogical approach. 19:28:39 Tau: If you are having trouble understanding something, by all means ask, but questions like those are just using the channel as a search engine 19:28:41 Tau: there is a website called lispforum.com, maybe there is an appropriate place for introductory questions. 19:28:51 i'm here for 1 hour and i haven't seen anyone talking about something useful. just people calling other's question as retarded. 19:29:18 even drdo who obviously is a famous lisp programmer didn't talk about anything useful. 19:29:27 *Fade* sighs 19:29:28 that's IRC for you, isn't it 19:29:32 <_3b> Tau: not talking is better than pointless talking 19:29:34 Fade, i have experience on haskell and other languages. 19:29:43 cause it i don't have that patience to learn step by step. 19:29:50 that's really irrelevant 19:29:57 i just need some examples and to know how to do things that i do in other languages. 19:30:02 then you should be able to scan through the first five or six chapters of PCL very quickly and get the answer to your question. 19:30:12 Tau: that's a wrong approach to learning lisp 19:30:14 _3b, if you don't like to share your knowledge just ignore the question. 19:30:18 drdo: I think you should apologize. there was a civil discussion going on before. 19:30:20 Tau: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Common_Lisp 19:30:31 anyhow I messaged you an example function that does the thing you were asking about. 19:30:31 "before you called Tau's questions retarded" 19:30:32 Tau: Also, there's lots of code on github and elsewhere. Read. 19:30:41 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:30:58 >/n 19:30:58 Tau: How did you pick up Haskell that way? :-) 19:31:06 "mappend" isn't in CL, but it's a trivial higher order function. 19:31:10 <_3b> Tau: but I want to be able to find the useful conversation without having to dig through lots of noise 19:31:11 Tau: people are really sharing with you knowledge on how to better learn lisp 19:31:16 you just don't want to accept it 19:31:19 antifuchs: You call that civil? 19:31:31 stassats, alright. 19:31:45 Fade: there's mapcan. 19:31:50 well. i think there are several approaches of how learning something. 19:31:55 pkhuong: yep 19:32:04 drdo: reading the stuff before your comment, yes, I would call that relatively more civil than what came after. 19:32:06 i have just understood that most of you just don't accept mine as being the most common. 19:32:21 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 Tau: If you want to privmsg me I'm not being terribly productive over here. :P 19:32:25 Tau: it's not an efficient use of *our* time. 19:32:26 <_3b> Tau: different learning is OK... expecting 300 people to help wih it is less OK 19:32:31 antgreen`, i think drdo just wanted to appear as the cool dude in the discussion. 19:32:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-110-39.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:42 because it tends to produce a programmer who writes fortran, or c, or haskell in lisp 19:32:51 Tau: It's ok to learn by asking questions frequently about everything you misunderstand. The issue is the appropriate forum for the questions. This is not it. 19:33:04 that is the way of how some people try to get friends and a lot of other things. 19:33:06 And I'm on spring break...I should do (read: Hack) something worthwhile... 19:33:16 <_3b> Tau: and in fact, it /is/ common, which is one reason we try to discourage it before it completely overwhelms the channel 19:33:22 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-4-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:33:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:33:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-154-178.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 Tau: Or go to #lispcafe 19:33:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:33:57 alright. i will just follow your advices and learn with the book. 19:34:00 -!- Tau [~tau@189-127-59-114.i-next.psi.br] has left #lisp 19:36:25 the documentation metasite at http://www.l1sp.org/ can also help 19:36:29 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@129.255.229.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:36:45 l1sp.org is pretty good if you have an idea already of what you're looking for. 19:38:44 Hmm. clisp doesn't seem to like (defmethod foo ((a float) &optional (f (float 1 a))) ...). That is a valid method, isn't it? 19:39:15 is it congruent? 19:39:41 Yes. All other methods take on required arg and one optional. 19:40:25 rtoym: Doesn't like in what way? Worked for me. 19:40:36 yeah, WFMT 19:40:57 Oh. I'm calling it wrong. Stupid me! I wonder why no cmucl and ccl don't complain? 19:41:19 awesome-o [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:25 rtoym: that's what you get for not reading PCL! 19:41:56 Xach: have you tested the clx on quicklisp on anything other than sbcl? 19:41:57 Haha! 19:42:34 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@static.205.131.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:42:44 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:06 drdo: I don't remember. I think so, but I'm not sure. 19:43:27 It doesn't seem to work on either ccl or clisp 19:43:42 works in sbcl 19:43:59 *on 19:44:00 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe55f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:45:00 drdo: Works for me on clisp. 19:45:19 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173509.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:45:35 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 19:47:04 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:49:03 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.17] has joined #lisp 19:49:21 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:49:38 Xach: I'm using 2.48, guess it works on 2.49? 19:49:47 I am using 2.49 and it works. 19:49:49 pjb: got problem with your code! 19:50:21 pjb: error while parsing arguments to DEFMACRO DEFCLASS: 19:50:21 invalid number of elements in 19:50:22 (CIRCUIT-SOLVER::ELEMENT (# #))... 19:52:54 Is there a way to THROW from a HANDLER-BIND handler and resignal the condition from the CATCH? 19:53:29 I mean, how can I tell whether the condition was signaled with SIGNAL, ERROR, CERROR, WARN? 19:53:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.109] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:53:59 -!- Teeko [~Teeko@184.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54:10 I don't think so 19:54:43 it doesn't make sense to distinguish between ERROR and CERROR if you've thrown away the continue restart by performing a transfer of control 19:55:20 so you could guess by saying (typecase condition (serious-condition (error condition)) (warning (warn condition)) (t (signal condition))) 19:55:20 yes, but it does for ERROR and SIGNAL 19:55:33 but that is only a guess enforced by convention 19:55:39 Joreji [~thomas@85-183.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:55:50 iwillig [~ivan@41.202.225.144] has joined #lisp 19:56:05 yup, short of looking at the frames that's what a sane person would do 19:56:32 with enough aggression you can go round and ... educate the people who violate convention 19:57:09 does anybody have the url to the high res version of marco barringer's slime movie saved? 19:57:13 even if I have the agression I'm not sure there aren't valid reasons to signal an error. 19:57:17 The unsuspecting masses at ECLM will be vulnerable. 19:57:24 Can't you just use signal? 19:57:39 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 19:57:39 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:57:50 Fade: i only know one version, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 19:57:55 It shouldn't matter if it's an error or warning, they are all conditions 19:58:11 stassats: thanks. I only had a link to the google video copy. 19:58:22 drdo: sure, but what should you do if there is no outer handler? 19:58:34 drdo: the difference is that ERROR invokes the debugger if no handler takes it upon itself 19:58:35 drdo: mega1 wants an nlx before 19:58:42 invoke the debugger or not? (Mind you, maybe that should be a local decision anyway) 19:58:51 that is, it's no longer the original signalling point's decision 19:58:52 Teeko [~Teeko@162.Red-88-22-219.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:04 and even without the nlx, SIGNAL does not resignal a condition from within a handler-bind, but signals it anew 19:59:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:38 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-50.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:00:03 drdo: CLX+CCL works fine for me, too. 20:00:07 I know it's lossy with regards to dynamic context to do this and can get away with what Krystof suggested so don't worry about it. 20:00:14 looks like #scheme is taking over SBCL support, because "#lisp is full of trolls; only #scheme would discuss the issue." 20:00:40 where is that from? 20:00:54 Xach: I get that problem with open-default-display not returning 20:01:08 drdo: I'm not familiar with that problem, sorry. 20:01:09 ccl 1.6 20:01:11 mega1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/725881 20:01:25 drdo: it returns for me in ccl 1.6. 20:01:32 Xach: on linux? 20:02:04 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.109] has joined #lisp 20:02:07 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:12 mega1: Notice that WARN does not accept any condition other than a subtype of warning in the first place 20:02:15 zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.85.170] has joined #lisp 20:02:23 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:02:27 drdo: Yes. 20:02:51 I discovered that last week where I tried to turn an error into a warning but (warn e) resulted in a type error :-) 20:02:52 tcr, cool, one of the heuristics is almost air tight now 20:03:39 sabalabas [~sabalaba@67-194-112-50.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:04:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-50.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:50 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-58-151.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:32 stassats: good for #scheme (: 20:05:52 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-58-151.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:05:56 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:06:48 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:04 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 -!- kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:24 xach: Is there a ql function to list all systems that use project X? 20:09:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-154-178.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:09:40 kerx [~kerx@209.208.63.169] has joined #lisp 20:09:51 Is there a nice way to single step through code in SBCL+Slime+Emacs? I've never tried that but I plan on converting some people in my lab. They are used to matlab and in matlab debugging is actually quite nice: You can break at a function and investigate local variables. So is it even possible to do this in Lisp? 20:10:00 redline6561: No, there isn't. You'd have to string it together with the ql-dist API. 20:10:10 redline6561: I think. Let me see if I wrote it and forgot about it... 20:10:21 mk2`: yes, you can break and inspect local variables 20:10:42 mk2`: at high enough debug level (3, I think), the stepper is enabled. 20:10:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:49 Xach: Thanks. 20:11:00 mega1: It's hard to do the right thing (Krystof's "original signaling point"), restarts could be gone for instance 20:11:15 jesusito [~user@54.pool85-49-28.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 20:11:35 tcr: I know, that's why I said "it's lossy with regards to dynamic context" 20:11:54 well, #lisp is particular, but I wouldn't classify it as being full of trolls. #lisp is no 4chan. 20:12:00 rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:31 stassats, pkhuong: Cool, I'll need to try it to see if its useful. 20:12:32 tcr: luckily, I have some control over what takes place on between the throw and the catch 20:12:53 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:12:54 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-14-244.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:42 If he read what happened to that guy with the speech impediment who came here for support ... 20:14:01 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 20:14:02 nipra [~nipra@122.170.17.41] has joined #lisp 20:14:06 I'm happy to let #scheme deal with his way of asking for help (: 20:14:29 redline6561: approximately: (loop for system in (provided-systems t) when (member system-name (required-systems system) :test 'equalp) collect system) 20:14:39 redline6561: where system-name is the system you're curious about. 20:14:43 What are you guys talking about (#scheme) ? 20:14:44 Xach: Excellent. Much obliged. 20:14:51 Alfa|WERK [~AlfaWolph@c-75-66-60-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:52 redline6561: that only checks direct dependencies, not the whole tree. 20:14:53 it's funny that all those people never ask themselves a single question "maybe something wrong is with _me_?" 20:15:07 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:08 Xach: Close enough. :) 20:15:14 drdo: scroll up 20:15:31 *Xach* discovers 67 quicklisp systems have a direct dependency on alexandria 20:16:21 maybe alexandria should be renamed 'batteries' 20:17:12 I couldn't live without alexandria 20:17:31 how dare they, in good ol' day it was frowned upon to depend on anything! 20:18:29 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.254.208] has joined #lisp 20:18:32 stassats: I scolled up, didn't see anything spectacular 20:18:57 drdo: scroll harder. 20:19:27 I'm puzzled 20:19:45 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-aaeitgwonltbufzi] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:20:40 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:16 drdo: referring to the exchange between nikodemus and $USER here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/725881 20:21:26 see bottom of comments in the bug. 20:22:00 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:22:01 Xach: I love your software. Just saying. :) 20:22:11 Ah, now i get it, was scrolling in #scheme 20:22:14 *i was 20:22:56 stassats: I managed to enter an sldb window by calling (step (bla)). But how can I inspect local variables. 'C-c I' in *slime-source* doesn't work. The expanded macros make even my test function quite unreadable, so I guess I better not show that to anyone. 20:23:26 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:24:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:08 -!- Teeko [~Teeko@162.Red-88-22-219.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:35 btbngr [~Matt@92.40.210.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:25:40 mk2`: you press RET on the frame you want to inspect 20:27:24 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:27:26 minion: any message? 20:27:44 any minion? 20:27:46 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:57 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:13 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:29:34 Soulman2 [~knute@250.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:44 redline6561: Thanks! 20:30:33 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.172] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 20:31:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:31:41 Teeko [~Teeko@162.Red-88-22-219.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:53 *Xach* hopes to push out more improvements soon 20:33:14 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 20:33:25 quicklisp is the business! :) 20:33:25 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:33:30 -!- Soulman2 is now known as Soulman 20:33:32 -!- iwillig [~ivan@41.202.225.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:45 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:34:10 yes, yes it is :) 20:34:11 Approximately 2.4 times more deluxe than asdf. 20:34:18 *Xach* holds head in hands 20:34:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.195.116] has joined #lisp 20:34:23 hehe 20:34:24 Quicklisp *uses* asdf. 20:34:35 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871d57.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:34:37 *redline6561* laughs 20:34:38 It doesn't *replace* asdf. It (sort of) replaces asdf-install. 20:34:45 Xach: *meh* 20:34:56 *Xach* feels like David Cross in pre-taped call-in show 20:34:56 that doesn't mean it can't be more deluxe 20:35:15 Go on, get all uppity about it Xach 20:35:21 stassats: Hmm, pressing enter only gives : even though i use (debug 3). Anyway, thanks for the help. 20:35:28 if asdf-install can die forever, then maybe that confusion can also die once and for all. 20:35:29 jsoftw: Quicklisp is cool but you should play with ZS3 some. Good APIs make me happy. 20:35:43 *Xach* uses zs3 a lot to make Quicklisp possible 20:36:00 Xach: it would be really quick if one could download prebuilt fasls 20:36:41 i use zs3 as an example of good system layout with new hires at work. 20:36:41 redline6561: Will try to remember to look that up... gots to go to work about now 20:36:46 stassats: I was just about to make that crack. :) 20:36:54 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:01 stassats: or steeldumps 20:37:03 stassats: Though more in the sense of..."one way to get rid of ASDF install is..." 20:37:12 Oh right, zs3. 20:37:12 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:15 s/ASDF Install/ASDF 20:37:25 *Xach* eyes lichtblau 20:37:50 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.172] has joined #lisp 20:38:27 -!- mk2` [~user@159.92.65.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.109] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:40:15 just make a lisp image with everything built-in 20:40:25 torrent preferred 20:41:26 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 20:41:31 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:38 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:46 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:42:02 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75685a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:42:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:47:25 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:47:47 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-136-017.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:32 btbngr1 [~Matt@92.40.210.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:49:39 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.212] has joined #lisp 20:50:56 -!- asurai is now known as bmp 20:51:00 urandom__ [~user@p548A5EDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:25 -!- btbngr [~Matt@92.40.210.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:51:38 -!- btbngr1 is now known as btbngr 20:52:53 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:09 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:55:15 fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 20:55:47 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@vpn-136-017.rz.uni-augsburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:47 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has joined #lisp 21:09:47 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:10:08 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871d57.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:58 pjb: I can't write a class in file :( 21:11:38 -!- Alfa|WERK [~AlfaWolph@c-75-66-60-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:11:42 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:12:10 shaunren [~shaun@bas2-cooksville17-1279412276.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:12:56 serialization isn't a trivial busyness 21:13:16 urandom1___ [~user@p548A2F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:21 s/y/i/ 21:14:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.110.34] has joined #lisp 21:14:35 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5EDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:14:37 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:49 stassats: then I fold back to structures 21:14:54 or use cl-store 21:15:05 serialization of structures is even harder 21:15:18 *Xach* smiles at http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/changeset/14667 21:15:50 yay! maybe it should be removed from sbcl too? 21:15:59 does it even work on sbcl with asdf2? 21:16:14 i remember there being some issues 21:16:32 Xach: they should replace it with fake-asdf-install which instructs the user to use quicklisp! 21:16:33 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 *Xach* doesn't know for sure 21:18:19 Xach: incidentally, could the ql installer be shipped with sbcl? 21:18:43 I'm not in favor of that right now. 21:18:58 oh, right, there was a discussion a while ago, wasn't there 21:19:01 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:03 I have to think about it a bit more. 21:20:12 *stassats* imagines in 10 years everybody complaining how bad quicklisp is and SpeedyLisp is the thing 21:20:27 Hopefully fewer than that! 21:20:31 hopefully it'll be in more like 2 years 21:20:42 that would be a huge step up from the time it took to replace asdf-install (: 21:20:56 stassats: with structure I was able to write down a list in a file... 21:21:02 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 21:22:38 does it resolve sharing? 21:22:53 ? 21:23:03 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 21:23:13 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1840.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:16 i take it as a no 21:23:35 sharing what? 21:23:36 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 21:23:37 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:42 data! 21:23:58 hi 21:24:13 stassats: yes it resolves, because I could write a netlist by hand or using another tool 21:24:15 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:24:17 data is like a toothbrush, you just don't share it! 21:24:44 Posterdati: i can't make sense of your answer 21:24:44 data is a somewhat odd android in a freaky series 21:25:03 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-99-130-31-182.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:06 Ralith [~ralith@d142-58-35-248.burnaby.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:25:21 stassats: my program reads and writes a netlist on a file, this netlist could be written by hand 21:25:32 still no go 21:25:38 stassats: it is actually a .txt file 21:25:50 what's netlist? what hands got to do with it? 21:25:52 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:26:16 stassats: a netlist is an electrical circuit representation 21:26:23 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.195.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:26:23 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:26:37 i meant sharing as in "different structures referencing same data" 21:26:51 weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:01 stassats: ah ok, I was talking about serialization 21:27:10 so was i... 21:28:45 stassats: so have I to use class for internal data representation? And what about writing those data on a file? 21:29:15 that's depends on what you want to do 21:30:17 stassats: I want my program reads data from file, but these data have to be in a human readable form 21:30:39 stassats: so one could modify it without using my prog 21:30:45 Posterdati: depending on what you want to do, you can use a textual representation. i.e. (format fstream "~A~%" data) 21:31:02 ah ok. You want some markup kind of thing 21:31:09 -!- wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:19 prxq: xml would be best 21:31:37 but you said human readable! 21:31:42 lol 21:31:57 it's funny, but it is true as well. 21:32:18 xml isn't funny at all 21:32:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.212] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:32:35 loml 21:32:47 I find xml hilarious 21:32:47 I found default Lisp behavior to write list in a file very usefull 21:33:18 xml = eXtra Mighty Lol 21:33:48 prxq: what do you suggest? 21:33:49 lol 21:34:05 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.178.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:30 tronador_ [~guille@190.255.85.21] has joined #lisp 21:34:55 please help, because I found Lisp more funny than watch Big Brother show on TV !!! 21:35:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:35:36 Posterdati: 1) use s-expressions, 2) there are some cl xml libs out there. 3) use some custom syntax that is easy to parse. 4) use a yaml kind of thing. 21:35:47 stassats: I've glanced at your tracking/storage projects from git a few times. You do (de)serialization with these yes? 21:36:05 perhaps you can use pjb's M-expression lib to hide the S-expressions. 21:36:08 prxq: #S() ? 21:36:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:36:13 prxq: #S() = s-expression? 21:36:17 mon_key: i do, yes, but it's quite ad-hocish 21:36:30 Posterdati: no, S-expression is the typical lisp list 21:36:52 prxq: like (A: A B: A)? 21:37:05 it only supports serializing what i need to be serialized, but it's quite fast at that 21:37:33 stassats: Its impressive (the parts I can can wrap my head around) 21:37:42 Posterdati: pretty much. 21:38:01 mon_key: i know, right, i use it every day! 21:38:21 prxq: I started with that, but I can achieve the same with structures #S(), they're read and write as well 21:38:49 Posterdati: maybe (:A a :b b). You could pass it to make-instance. Like (apply #'make-instance 'class-name (read stream)) 21:38:56 sure. 21:39:02 stassats: I keep intending to try building it but last I tried building commonQT was troublesome 21:39:52 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:40:04 prxq: I've got several records (classes) in a list, how can I read back them? 21:40:07 -!- jesusito [~user@54.pool85-49-28.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 21:40:31 prxq: if is that possible 21:40:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:41:10 Posterdati: what do you mean? I presume you know you can use iterate over the list... no? 21:41:36 prxq: yes 21:42:00 s/use// :-) 21:42:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:59 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.255.85.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:17 prxq: I've got a list of classes objects, how can I read and write it in a file? 21:43:27 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.191.25] has joined #lisp 21:43:48 oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has joined #lisp 21:44:08 mon_key: you didn't miss much, it's not really that useful for others (but what do i know about others?) 21:44:23 Posterdati: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_mk_ld_.htm 21:44:32 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.191.25] has left #lisp 21:45:01 stassats: There is stuff in tracking (outside qt) which has immediate utility for me. 21:45:45 prxq: it is a mess 21:45:58 prxq: two advanced for me :) 21:46:08 prxq: sorry it is too advanced for me :) 21:46:19 prxq: I'm an absolute beginner :) 21:47:15 Posterdati: basically, you need a function that can print each object in some list form. Preferably one like "(make-instance 'foo :slot1 ...)". You can read them back and eval them. 21:47:23 Posterdati: you will have to read a book. Or two. 21:47:26 that's how you became a relative beginner, by doing stuff which you don't know 21:47:36 Posterdati: check out PCL. 21:47:45 minion: tell Posterdati about PCL 21:47:50 prxq: I'm reading it 21:47:57 hm, bots dead, I guess. 21:48:01 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.110.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:17 prxq: and I modified the cds db program 21:48:29 spilman [~spilman@ARennes-552-1-134-153.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:48:50 "please, take a look at Portable Common Loops, a portable implementation of Common Lisp Object System" 21:49:06 i guess i'm not that good of a bot 21:49:12 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:17 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:25 gigamonkey: hi 21:49:30 gigamonkey: how are you ? 21:49:48 -!- mouflon [skajohan@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:00 Poor gigamonkey. Keeps getting pestered with annoying questions. :) 21:51:16 Posterdati: it is not difficult. With format, read, and eval, you can solve your problem. THINK! 21:51:26 that's what you get for being famous 21:51:32 prxq: ok 21:51:45 prxq: thanks 21:52:22 prxq: I'm going to use structures for now, no time to elaborate a more sophisticated approach 21:52:58 seems reasonable to me. 21:53:32 prxq: produced files could easily modified by hand 21:53:44 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:03 don't know about you, but i can modify binary data alright 21:54:30 prxq: I'm very happy, beside my ignorance, using Lisp is a very different story (with happy ending)! 21:54:34 stassats: i presume you compose symphonies directly to mp3, right? 21:54:46 prxq: no need to, i play them in my head directly 21:54:56 stassats: can you work as adc and/or dac too? 21:55:08 how much do you pay? 21:55:21 stassats: no money man... 21:56:18 prxq: surprisingly I found repl more useful than a good c/c++ compiler in an ide :) 21:56:32 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:34 doesn't surprise me :-) 21:56:44 there is a compiler hiding in your repl! 21:57:11 p_l|home [~pl@213.5.11.129] has joined #lisp 21:57:24 yes, but you can't write c code in a prompt and watch the result! 21:57:35 Posterdati: ... actually, you can 21:57:36 you can! 21:57:47 what?!? 21:57:58 google "tiny C compiler" or "tcc" 21:57:59 of course. Wreckage all the way 21:58:12 ah ok 21:58:17 Or you can use a C interpreter with a repl 21:58:18 never heard that :) 21:58:23 (like this one: http://code.google.com/p/picoc/) 21:58:38 did zeta-c have a repl? 21:58:43 dunno whether Symbolics C had a repl 21:59:14 I doubt it, though it might have function-by-function compilation and probably could export those functions to Lisp... so you could technically call them from Listener 21:59:29 a repl does not make much sense for a lang like C 21:59:47 its semantics depend too much on the ZAP-garbage collector 22:00:02 anyway, using Lisp is so much funny :) I'm back at the golden age with C64 or C128 :) 22:00:06 a.k.a as the segfault solution 22:01:00 prxq: c/c++ are not designed as interpreted languages 22:01:11 a REPL doesn't not entail an interpreter. 22:01:11 Posterdati: neither is lisp 22:01:12 prxq: I found a lisp REPL for C= 64 22:01:19 drakej [~fred@cpe-67-11-178-146.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:19 *that's a single negation 22:01:24 -!- drakej [~fred@cpe-67-11-178-146.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:01:36 prxq: Segfault != "ZAP-GC" 22:02:00 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:05 p_l|home: no? 22:02:08 prxq: no 22:02:20 p_l|home: darn... :( 22:02:22 segfault is a MMU condition 22:02:30 jweiss [~user@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:50 not an error, even 22:02:58 prxq: I'm very interested in lisp machines and people who develop them in fpga nowadays 22:03:17 p_l|home: well, a fault it is, though, that much is true. 22:03:53 Posterdati: i'm not interesting in them, they're spending valuable time on things i will never use 22:04:21 yes, but it's not an error. It's just that it's better to make the default handler kill the process, instead of mangling possibly important data 22:04:26 stassats: I will use I will use 22:04:45 stassats: you don't know what they would be spending time on instead. Look at a guy like WJ. Good thing he's occupied with the matzlisp jihad. 22:05:12 -!- urandom1___ [~user@p548A2F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:15 Posterdati: yo. 22:05:29 prxq: yeah, i wouldn't be interested in that either 22:05:34 prxq: in fact, segmentation fault is a very important signal for any GC :) 22:06:09 (though it would be oh so much better if Unix had VMS-style condition handling...) 22:06:14 p_l|home: right. C's GC is implemented as the default handler :-) 22:06:36 Posterdati: what's the use of lisp on an fpga? 22:06:42 "ok this is garbage. Scratch that, etc." 22:07:00 prxq: no. C has no GC at all, it's just a portable assembler with Algol-inspired syntax :) 22:07:28 stassats: well as you know microcontroller are based on standard CPUs like ARM 22:07:30 or MIPS 22:07:53 stassats: and they're programmed using assembly or an higher level language like c 22:08:13 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:14 p_l|home: oh it has a garbage collector! It is just a trivial one. On some systems it is called the OOM killer. ;) 22:08:29 for a reason, i think 22:08:34 stassats: while I somehow doubt the use of a lispm these days, a CPU with various high-level features might be useful 22:08:44 stassats: yes, they're cheap 22:08:45 prxq: that's an OS feature, not language one 22:09:03 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 22:09:20 p_l|home: with how cheap and fast are modern CPUs, i very doubt that 22:10:16 p_l|home: well, i don't know about you, but my OS is written in C. 22:10:28 stassats: a lispmachine could be programmed without using an expensive IDE like Keil 22:10:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.47] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:33 -!- tr3x [~tr3x@78-0-209-0.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:33 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.170.110] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:34 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:44 -!- CrazyEddy [~stomachic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:45 i don't follow 22:10:59 oh is it "dem lispmachines should make a comeback" evening ? 22:11:14 no, it's just the afternoon (: 22:11:18 :D 22:11:19 no, no, it's "they shouldn't" 22:11:24 stassats: I was thinking more of tagged arithmetic, better MMU, multi-cpu I/O with message passing, better coherence control, and different call sequence that would void stack overflows 22:11:34 nothing lisp specific, actually 22:11:39 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:50 p_l|home: you can implement all this in software 22:11:53 and the tagged arithmetic might just be very fast masked ops 22:11:55 Posterdati: what would be the point? 22:12:20 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:26 *luis`* is a bit confused with David McClain's reply to Edi's ECLM announcement on the eclm@common-lisp.net list. wth? 22:12:33 -!- luis` is now known as luis 22:12:34 prxq: I think would be money saving 22:12:47 luis: I think he hit reply on the wrong message. 22:12:53 luis: it happens, I guess (: 22:13:07 stassats: you can implement near everything in software, I was thinking just of stuff that *might* be better if it had direct hw support, not necessarily instruction level, though 22:13:14 that's what you get for top posting :) 22:13:25 that's what /we/ get 22:13:35 prxq: higher level language could be very useful instead of assembly 22:13:36 When you mess with us. 22:13:43 luis: Are you going to ECLM? 22:13:46 Tabmow [tabmow@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 22:13:50 p_l|home: well, it would be better if it were a commodity hardware 22:13:53 more important, are you going to ELS? (-; 22:14:06 I want the most expensive platform possible. Bling, bling!! 22:14:14 not going to ELS, definitely going to ECLM 22:14:31 prxq: there are $20k+ gaming PCs. something like that? (: 22:14:40 or do you want a really expensive computer? 22:14:45 Anyone here going to github's Code Conf? 22:14:49 antifuchs: sounds about right. 22:14:51 stassats: such a cpu wouldn't make C harder to program, and the biggest prisoner of legacy architectures, Microsoft, has been working tirelessly to move everything to JIT 22:14:54 ELS overlaps with a Jazz festival that I absolutely must attend :) 22:15:00 antifuchs: gold plated 22:15:08 a li$p ma$hine 22:15:10 luis: argh! (: 22:16:02 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 22:16:35 prxq: just order yourself some mainframe with POWER7 22:16:56 brennanc [~brennanc@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:11 gigamonkey: sounds like an interesting conference 22:17:20 rolando [~user@24.91.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:17:20 gigamonkey: they have all the famous names from twitter on there (: 22:17:25 stassats: POWER7 sounds about right, too 22:17:49 -!- Tabmow [tabmow@freenode/staff/tabmow] has left #lisp 22:18:40 antifuchs: I got Gigamonkeys Inc. to send me. ;-) 22:19:26 gigamonkey: lucky you! 22:19:34 (-: 22:20:25 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:21:07 go get a FPGA machine from Pico Computing and build your own computer 22:21:30 that is, if you can afford 44 top of the line FPGA chips in a 4U rack unit :P 22:21:36 solder a computer from transistors 22:21:43 it's been done 22:21:50 that's what #electronics is for 22:21:55 right. Make a video, and send it to MTV j4ck4ss 22:21:57 err, ## 22:22:27 Adamant: sure, but not a lispmachine 22:22:44 I though Lisp Machines used LSI chips 22:22:59 that would be hard to do with discrete transistors 22:23:35 you could probably dump the Lisp Machine design to a FPGA at this point. they're using them to emulate classic retro computers for retro gaming 22:23:49 caveat: I know nothing about licesning 22:24:15 you could, but why would you want to do this? 22:24:32 *p_l|home* wanted to build a MMIX workstation 22:24:36 hell if I know, but I don't know why you would want a Lisp Machine in 2010 either. 22:24:46 except for retro value 22:25:13 i mean, you'll not likely use it for twitter or something 22:25:32 what is that, like Facespace or something? 22:25:34 for running legacy software, there's OpenGenera 22:25:44 *prxq* wants a pocket calculator with twitter function 22:26:08 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173509.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:15 you could probably do that with either a modern TI or a HP 22:26:48 it would take some hacking 22:26:49 so, core i7 is the best lisp machine, you can run SBCL on it 22:26:50 does a phone equipped with a full hp48g emulator *and* twitter client counts? 22:26:50 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:00 p_l|home: probably 22:27:07 good enough 22:27:26 prxq: then my phone counts :D 22:27:37 really, unless you're a student, a soft calculator/CAS is the way to go now anyway 22:27:50 do it on your phone/PDA device 22:27:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:28:20 it would be quite artsy, really. lots of entries of the form "(+ 7 6) => 13" 22:28:26 *p_l|home* has Droid48 (a hp48g emulator. doesn't have the CAS software of latest models, but good enough for calculation) 22:28:43 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:00 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-16-39.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 22:29:22 yeah, I'm surprised Mathematica or Maple hasn't come up with some kind of software package for smartphones. or maybe they have. 22:29:35 online? 22:29:46 they could add optional cloud acceleration even 22:29:49 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:59 yeah, I was thinking about W. Alpha 22:30:00 Adamant: mathematical can be browser-based now. 22:30:18 *mathematica 22:30:36 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-175-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:43 yeah, the magic of HTML5 22:31:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:13 you don't need HTML5 for that 22:31:22 sure, but you're going to use it anyway 22:31:41 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31:41 you don't need HTML 4.1 for a lot of stuff either 22:31:59 Mathematica is available through Wolfram Alpha 22:32:01 quotemstr [~quotemstr@173.224.210.52] has joined #lisp 22:32:06 as much as it exports 22:32:18 What's the best way to provide incremental checkpointing of a long computation in a Lisp without call/cc? 22:32:18 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:32:24 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:32 ...closure? 22:32:33 You can code it up manually of course. 22:32:49 C-c C-c? 22:32:56 p_l|home: Having to provide a closure for each step along the way makes the code ugly, but it'll work. 22:32:59 use purely functional datastructure with closures pointing to current point 22:33:08 would memoizing give you what you want? 22:33:13 Sort-of. 22:33:37 I'm trying to build an incremental parser-combiner library, sort of like what Yi has. Yi's implemented in Haskell, so it has an easier ime of it. :-) 22:33:43 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:47 *stassats* often interrupts the long-running process, inspects the stack, and then continues 22:34:01 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34:05 I was thinking about using CPS instead. 22:34:16 At least that's consistently awkward. :-) 22:35:10 So each parser combinator would return a list of (try-next, on-success) tuples where on-success could be an arbitrary partial function application. 22:35:52 have you seen http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html ? 22:36:01 The trick is saving the parser state at multiple points in the buffer so that after the user edits the buffer, parsing can resume at the portion closest to point that hasn't been damaged. 22:36:06 stassats: I'll look now; thanks. 22:36:25 That is a bit like what I had in mind. :-) 22:36:44 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:06 Of course, I'm slightly handicapped by working in elisp. :-) 22:37:27 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:57 quotemstr: why are you doing that? 22:38:07 prxq: Because I'm writing for Emacs, of course. 22:38:45 Hrm. smug implements monads by itself. I sense a corollary of Greenspun's Tenth law here. 22:39:13 quotemstr: most people here program in CL, so we might not be very good at suggesting something. Have you asked in #emacs? 22:39:42 quasisane: "even BASIC can have monads"? 22:39:46 prxq: Sure. I've actually written quite a few Emacs modes already, and I've also worked with CL a bit. 22:39:52 i think quotemstr would know the difference between #lisp and #emacs 22:40:17 prxq: elisp's biggest disadvantage with respect to the problem at hand is the lack of TAGBODY and GO. The rest is immaterial. 22:40:17 (#lisp being more smug, of course) 22:40:20 fair enough 22:40:45 quotemstr: it doesn't have that? 22:40:59 quotemstr: you can always fake it 22:40:59 that's shocking 22:41:23 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:42:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:45:45 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:27 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:30 prxq: The Lisp stack is the C stack, and variable bindings are dynamic. 22:46:52 prxq: To evaluate a sexp, the elisp interpreter essentially just calls eval on it. 22:47:08 quotemstr: and have you seen ramarren's cl-parser-combinators library? 22:47:14 prxq: There's a compiler too, of course, with real bytecode, but TAGBODY would have to work with both the interpreter and the compiler. 22:47:19 slyrus: Not yet. :-) 22:47:29 slyrus: The problem I have with most parser combinator libraries is that they're not *incremental*. 22:47:46 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:14 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@67-194-112-50.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:18 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:49:07 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1840.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:20 fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 22:49:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.85.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:39 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:02 Posterdati: it's easy to write a serialiser/deserializer for classes. 22:51:16 pjb: ok 22:51:31 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has left #lisp 22:51:44 But indeed, it's a question of trade-off. 22:52:19 Also, most parser combiner libraries don't actually provide a good way to generate ASTs. 22:52:30 (Other than by hand.) 22:52:44 Also, you may revise your structure class tree. You have a lot of slots that are common to several structures. Perhaps you could generalize them or reify a superclass (super structure). 22:53:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:00 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:02 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:54:41 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:56 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:02 pjb: I've to study it 22:58:46 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75685a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:31 Good morning everyone! 23:00:43 good morning (afternoon) 23:00:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:00:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:00:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:01:21 <- wonders if 3b is still around 23:02:02 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:02:32 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168320.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:03:23 I suppose I need to understand Monads better. 23:03:49 What does emulating monadic structure buy smug and cl-parser-combinators? Couldn't you just keep global state and roll it back on match failure? 23:04:56 *_3b* is sort of still around 23:05:14 quotemstr: I think parser combinators are naturally represented as monads 23:05:44 _3b: what's the process for adding examples to cl-opengl? 23:05:53 quotemstr: plus there's no greenspuns' rule here, it should be trivial to implement monads in any language (not necessarily will it be comfortable or trivial to use them) 23:07:13 rien: any program that uses modern programming technique contains a nontrivially usable, uncomfortable and ad-hoc implementation of monads. 23:07:16 there (-: 23:07:38 hahaha 23:07:39 as for the truth behind that rule, discuss (-: 23:07:45 <_3b> masonium: put it on a fork on github and send a pull request would probably be most effective 23:08:06 _3b: okay 23:08:26 _3b: I'm working on a simple one now that uses VBOs and VAOs 23:09:15 antifuchs: I used to be fluent in monads but one day I decided "screw this, I'm moving to Lisp" 23:09:48 hey beach 23:10:13 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe55f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:10:46 I'm reasonably confident in my understanding of monads, but they still make my head hurt. 23:12:49 quotemstr: there was a time when haskell didn't have monads, and they did fine, for some value of "fine" :) 23:13:43 maybe I'll take a look at smug's code to see how they implemented monads 23:14:36 Guest96656 [~mau@72.22.178.150] has joined #lisp 23:15:59 pjb: how can I create a list adding elements at the end? 23:17:36 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:32 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:23:44 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-218.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:23 Posterdati: keep track of the last item with a temporary variable, set it's cdr, keep track of that... 23:26:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:47 sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:08 When compiling why would one want to do this: 23:29:09 (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)) 23:29:17 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-141-203.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:56 mon_key: that's to be able to reproduce the random numbers generated, iirc 23:30:17 so that the random number generator always yields the same sequence, i.e. it always uses the same seed. 23:30:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:15 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:24 rootlocus [~rootlocus@240218000001280102264afffe09eee2.ptr-ipv6.nicta.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:37 mon_key: uhh actually I think it does the opposite of what I said - it seeds the RNG with a new seed every time 23:31:45 it occurs inside of an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) 23:32:54 actually, the T argument means that a new, random, random state is generated 23:33:04 rien: IIUC the spec says let-binding it *random-state* happens inside an implicit `unwind-protect'. 23:33:29 So, what does `setf'ing it do at compile time? 23:33:41 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:33:47 set it to a new, random, random state 23:34:15 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-176.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:34:15 antifuchs: for the fasl or the entire top-level environment? 23:34:19 means you get a fresh set of randomness, using whichever means the impl chooses 23:34:38 according to the compile-when, that happens when you compile the .lisp file and when you load the .fasl file 23:35:10 which library does that? 23:35:12 antifuchs: So basically this form is directing environment to make sure it has something random to get ahold of 23:35:12 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 23:35:17 antifuchs: UUID 23:35:20 it seems like a very effective way of overriding the user's wishes 23:35:26 my impression also 23:35:39 might be better to have it use its own random state 23:35:46 what i thought too. 23:36:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:28 antifuchs: that means introducing bugs unbeknownst to the programmer? :) 23:37:25 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:39:30 rien: dunno, sometimes it's useful to have a predictable random state 23:39:44 and loading uuid eliminates that. not nice! 23:40:40 ignis_ [~quassel@cpe-66-74-76-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:27 -!- ignis_ [~quassel@cpe-66-74-76-152.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:42:14 is there a possibility that *random-state* not be bound at top-level? 23:43:00 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:26 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:36 it's a cl symbol, defined to hold a random state. so unless you use makunbound, no (: 23:45:23 Then I'm not understandning why UUID even has the eval-when stuff in it... 23:46:09 it wants a new random state 23:46:12 -!- SpitfireWP [Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 23:46:13 that's as random as possible 23:46:28 I'm assuming that this is how the UUID spec says it should be 23:46:43 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 23:48:18 not completely sure. v4 needs a random and v1 sometimes. 23:50:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:11 I think the right fix would be to add a &key (*random-state* *my-truly-random-state*) to the exported interface, and change that setf to *my-truly-random-state* 23:50:19 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:50:22 (ah, and come up with a better name for the keyword arg 23:50:29 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:29 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 23:51:39 FWIW I'm building a stripped version of UUID -- and not using v1 so as it is only make-v4-uuid would need it. 23:52:30 &key ((:random *random-state) *my-truly-random-state*) :) 23:52:40 Oops, *random-state* 23:53:01 yeah, a /better/ name (: 23:53:06 perhaps :random-state 23:55:51 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:06 fisted_ [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 _reid [~reid@pool-173-53-248-17.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:32 -!- kauwgom [~reid@pool-173-53-248-17.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:54 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:56 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-58-35-248.burnaby.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:58:24 CrazyEddy [~noneugeni@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 23:58:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:48 tritchey [~tritchey@154.sub-75-203-3.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:59 So, IIUC -- UUID's intent is to guarantee that there is a new *random-state* whenever it is loaded. It currently does this by generating a new *RANDOM-STATE* inside an EVAL-WHEN rather than creating its own *NON-GLOBAL-RANDOM-STATE* which and passing that to RANDOM instead. 23:59:05 -!- fisted [~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]