00:00:03 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:41 Hazarding a guess, I would bet NumPy is aimed more at convenience and expressiveness and GSLL at large scale computations. But I know little of NumPy. 00:00:44 rpg: But if there is for example a generic function m*, it could specialize on (AND (VECTOR (COMPLEX DOUBLE-FLOAT) 4) (NOT SIMPLE-ARRAY)) and to (SIMPLE-ARRAY SINGLE-FLOAT) etc.. 00:00:55 peterhil: Um. No. 00:01:02 Why not? 00:01:11 You can't specialize on arbitrary type expressions. 00:01:31 [Hint: SUBTYPEP is not efficiently computable (may be undecidable, I forget).] 00:01:37 So the problem lies in how arrays are implemented in CL together with the CL type system? 00:02:00 peterhil: You want something like the ML type system to make that determination. 00:02:01 Anyway using GSLL is just PITA as it is. 00:02:07 sbahra_ [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:10 Or haskell? 00:02:30 yup. 00:03:10 I forget --- isn't GSLL just a binding to a foreign library? 00:03:17 Maybe I just then start writing NumPy style multi-dimensional iterators on top of vectors... Or stick with NumPy 00:03:33 Yes, to GSL and the C underpinnigs show through too clearly 00:03:48 I think you want a MATLAB clone, from what you say. 00:04:11 I tried to install matlisp, but there was some problem installing it 00:04:23 I don't know if there's any MATLAB-style library for CL. Sounds like you are way ahead of me there. 00:04:42 peterhil: What problems did you have installing matlisp? 00:04:55 rtoym: Wait a sec, I'll check 00:05:11 peterhil: what CL are you using? 00:05:18 But matlisp won't solve your problems. It only supports double-float and complex double-float matrices. I think. 00:05:50 *rpg* must go feed children. 00:06:16 If I were smart enough, I would write a matlab interpreter so matlisp could run (some) matlab/octave code. 00:08:40 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:55 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:22 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@rrcs-184-74-152-105.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:11:38 rtoym: Only using double-floats is not necessarily a big problem, the input could be coerced to doubles anyway if it isn't already. And formatted to appear more concise and pretty. 00:11:42 Ri_usw [~Riviera@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has joined #lisp 00:11:59 peterhil: Are you using a very recent version of matlisp? There have been quite a few changes there to make building a bit easier. 00:13:27 -!- Ri_usw [~Riviera@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has left #lisp 00:13:28 rtoym: OK, I'll grab a recent version. I think there was some problems with fortran compiler, but I can't remember anymore. 00:13:41 Anyways, I'll give matlisp another try... 00:14:10 Ah. I hope the latest version will solve some of the fortran compiler issues. It works much better than before. 00:14:58 I'm using OS X 1.06 and SBCL btw, I remember reading recently that Matlisp should work on this platform, is that right? 00:15:12 About formatting, are you saying formatting of the matrices on output? The output is already truncated in matlisp to a few significant digits and a certain number of rows/columns. 00:15:19 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:43 Ok, that sounds good... Is it user customizable even? 00:15:54 Ah, I have not tested the latest code with sbcl. Probably only need a few tweaks to get sbcl to load the libraries correctly. 00:15:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:01 rien|home [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:16:08 I could try CCL also 00:16:17 I think the formatting is customizable to some extent. I'll have to dig that up. 00:16:22 -!- rien|home is now known as rien 00:16:48 CCL is not supported, but I have thought about adding support for that. It's just a pain writing a new Fortran FFI. 00:20:32 Ok. The number rows/columns is programmable. The number of digits is not, unless you change the print-element methods to print a different number of digits. But it should be easy to make it user-settable. Could even just make the user specify the format string to use. 00:21:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:21:24 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:42 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:38 beach: that took a moment. had to upgrade/add-to my texlive dist. 00:31:27 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:40 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.211.120] has joined #lisp 00:32:23 beach: the rendered .ps is nicer than the .pdf. I would benefit from one or more examples of flexichain in use. 00:33:50 mon_key: Thanks! It is an example of documentation that is not at all attached to code, and some of the stuff in there would not have any reasonable code fragment to attach to. 00:34:13 beach: I'm finding much of this equally relevant. http://p-cos.net/lisp-ecoop/submissions/StrandhVilleneuveMoore.pdf 00:34:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:19 beach: FWIW the explicit reference to "gap buffer" is usefull b/c it is something I'm more immediately familiar with :) 00:35:56 OK. 00:36:42 beach: But thanks for reminding me about Flexichain! I'd forgotten. 00:37:01 Oh, sure. That wasn't the purpose though. :) 00:37:42 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:59 rtoym: I guess I should grab Matlisp from the CVS repository as the most recent release on Sourceforge dates back to 2003? 00:39:28 peterhil: Actually, you need to get the git repo. 00:39:34 Oh, cool 00:39:38 At gihub? 00:39:46 No. Sourceforge. 00:42:31 Ok. The cliki page and matlisp homepage could be updated to mention that there is a git repository on SF. 00:43:40 i was exposed to scheme today by helping a friend with his homework 00:44:03 dto: How was it? 00:44:30 pretty interesting. it was SICP picture language stuff that they're doing in his class, where you make recursive pictures of einstein 00:44:47 I've been eyeing on what is available on the scheme side and gambit and Chicken Scheme do not seem so bad for a Common Lisper. 00:44:51 QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has joined #lisp 00:45:28 whatever UI they are forcing him to use, is useless compared to emacs, which my friend knows how to use but isn't allowed to for this project. DrRacket 00:46:11 Oh yes, PLT Scheme - the project seems to have a strong NIH syndrome 00:46:23 Or Racket as it is now called 00:46:35 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:47:12 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:47:23 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 00:48:05 At least that's my impression, I may be wrong though. Maybe it's just the same reason as for Allegro and Lispworks have their own graphical IDEs and web application servers 00:49:30 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:50:39 eheh, maxima cvs source is not able to do a out of sourcedir build 00:50:58 admin dir does not get copied over 00:51:15 and then there are other problems appearing with the compile 00:51:58 peterhil: No, I think the main Racket guy really dislikes using emacs for programming... 00:53:24 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:50 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-62-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:55:50 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:57:58 rpg: who ? 00:58:14 fe[nl]ix: Felleisen, IIRC. 00:58:38 But I hear Geiser works well with Racket. Haven't tried myself. 01:00:06 Might be wrong about it being Felleisen... 01:00:55 This is what I was thinking of: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2009/03/drscheme-repl-isnt-lisp.html 01:01:25 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:06 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:05:54 also, DrRacket was afaik supposed to be free standing, so that you could start by just downloadig the binary 01:05:59 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 01:06:09 rtoym: I get "Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when Using REAL as the class-name" when make starts sbcl with start.lisp 01:06:47 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:07:20 peterhil: Sounds familiar. Let me look.... 01:07:46 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:24 awesome-o [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has joined #lisp 01:08:33 -!- awesome-o [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has left #lisp 01:08:54 -!- Teeko [~Teeko@171.Red-81-35-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Teeko] 01:09:27 peterhil: Did you run configure? 01:11:01 -!- basho___ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-006-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:11:25 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:39 rtoym: Yes I did. When I tried (require :matlisp) on the repl ASDF throws a condition when trying to load BLAS and LAPACK libs: ASDF could not load matlisp because Error opening shared object ".../libmatlisp.so"\n dlopen(, 10): image not found.. 01:13:07 Yeah. That needs to be changed to load the four separate libs, like what cmucl does. 01:13:14 It seems I should give configure options to compile the libs to be 64-bit. I have a X86-64 iMac 01:13:38 Aren't the libs 64-bit? They should be. 01:13:58 Well, they should be whatever your fortran compiler defaults to. 01:13:59 There is btw a small error on the INSTALL file: the "autoreconfigure --install" should be before "cd build" 01:14:02 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 01:14:18 Thanks. I'll fix that now. 01:16:02 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:56 peterhil: In lib/lazy-loader.lisp.in, you can probably copy cmucl's load-blas-&-lapack-libraries to the sbcl version with the obvious change from ext:load-foreign to sb-alien:load-shared-object. 01:20:23 -!- tobik [~tobik@p4FCBE9C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:20:23 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.43] has joined #lisp 01:20:38 rtoym: Thanks I'll try that. There was problem compiling the lazy-loader.lisp 01:20:54 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:55 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.174] has quit [Changing host] 01:20:59 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:21:00 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.43] has joined #lisp 01:21:59 You'll have to run config.status again to update lazy-loader.lisp. 01:22:33 basho__ [~basho__@dslb-188-108-155-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:43 rpg: That "really dislikes using emacs for programming" makes it sound way more than it is; that guy dislikes using a repl for development. The kind of development that drracket uses (a repl that starts from scratch on each execution) is very doable in emacs. 01:23:01 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:14 (And in fact there used to be a "drscheme-jr" thing which was using emacs, IIRC.) 01:24:01 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:26 psilord1 [~psilord@76.201.144.30] has joined #lisp 01:27:39 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@76.201.144.30] has left #lisp 01:30:07 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:30:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:30:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 01:30:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 01:30:53 rtoym: The compilation worked till it started sbcl. It gives package lock conditions. 01:31:42 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:56 Do you know where? 01:32:59 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:30 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:34:03 -!- Spion__ is now known as Spion 01:34:09 -!- Spion [~spion@77.29.250.12] has quit [Changing host] 01:34:09 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 01:34:36 Maybe remove the deftype from the bottom of package.lisp? 01:35:05 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-238-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:36:13 Is there any way in ABCL to get a list of directory contents with non-truenames, so on Unix symlinks are listed separately? 01:36:57 pers [~user@182.sub-75-193-21.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:52 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:21 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-234-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:44:03 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:47:47 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:49:56 rtoym: Didn't seems to help to comment out the deftype. Where the real is shadowed? 01:50:13 I can paste the condition if you want? 01:50:19 In the defpackage form in package.lisp. 01:50:47 Don't need the condition unless it kind of points out where the source code is. 01:51:43 rtoym: same question to you, actually 01:51:45 Xach: do you just want to know a way to check if a file is a symlink, or are you looking for a premade function that already gives you a directory's listing without them? 01:52:26 rien: Neither of those two things. 01:52:31 Xach: Me too? 01:52:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:52:48 rtoym: yes. 01:53:04 Xach: Is it ok not to follow the symlinks? 01:53:40 rtoym: not only ok, that is mandatory for what i need. 01:54:07 consider a directory with a.txt and b.txt -> a.txt. I would like a listing to include both a.txt and b.txt. 01:54:15 Does supplying :truenamep nil or :follow-links nil to DIRECTORY help? 01:54:20 Oh. Let me try... 01:54:47 rtoym: I'm asking you and wimping out by not reading the manual, sorry. I can go read it. 01:54:56 ABCL doesn't seem to have a manual that covers this kind of thing. 01:55:49 Xach: That's ok. :truenamep nil produces a.txt and b.txt. 01:55:59 rtoym: It seems that on SBCL the common-lisp package needs to be unlocked before shadowing symbols from there: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Package-Lock-Overview.html#Package-Lock-Overview 01:56:19 rtoym: thanks 01:56:52 Xach: I thought :follow-links nil would work, but it produces *no* output!?!? 01:58:01 peterhil: That's not the case. 01:58:23 peterhil: CMUCL has package locks too. I don't see why I need to unlock the package. I'm not trying to do anything with the CL package. I just want matlisp to use its own REAL symbol instead of CL:REAL. 01:59:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:29 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-71-54.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:02:25 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:20 -!- akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:11 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:04:13 I tried to (deftype real ...) and (defun real ...) in my own package and both raised a similar condition about the package lock. In the latter case I could just unlock the package and it defined the function. 02:04:35 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:47 (Didn't try with deftype - I still want to use real number in this session... :-) 02:05:38 Maybe I'm not shadowing correctly? 02:06:53 peterhil: if you :use cl, you must :shadow real. 02:09:58 Xach: I know, I am trying to get matlisp compiled and started. 02:11:19 (defpackage #:matlisp (:use #:cl ...) (:shadow "REAL") (:export "REAL" ...)) should shadow REAL, right? 02:11:40 Er, shadow cl:real. 02:12:06 rtoym: Yes. 02:12:23 rtoym: Which version of SBCL do you have? I have 1.0.43. Do you get the condition about REAL and PACKAGE-LOCK? 02:13:05 I'm not using any right now, but I think I have some rather old one for OSX. That probably has the same lock behavior. 02:14:20 I'm asking the version because the SBCL manual told that the package-lock mechanism might change incompatibly 02:15:25 1.0.29 02:16:00 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:25 -!- cincon [~jon@p5B095272.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:18:26 -!- SpitfireWP [Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 02:19:36 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 02:20:31 akimbo [~oy@cpe-024-163-123-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:06 *rtoym* tries to build matlisp with sbcl 1.0.29 02:21:52 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:21:54 sbcl doesn't like the asdf file, I think. 02:24:22 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:25:31 can someone help me with this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/120104 02:26:21 specifically, trying to copy the buffer with "(gl:copy-tex-image-2d ...)", but when I try to then map that texture to a quad I just get a white square 02:29:07 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-24-0-146-14.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:33 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:29:49 Ok. I get a package lock error when using REAL as the class-name. 02:30:05 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 02:32:23 peterhil: In config.lisp, comment out the (setf (find-class 'real) (find-class 'cl:real)). I don't know why that is there. 02:32:45 Build gets far enough to signal another error. :-) 02:34:43 peterhil: Symlink lib-src/macros.l to lib-src/macros.lisp. 02:34:51 rtoym: ok, thanks. :-) 02:35:42 Some code in matlisp must be really old, because it still uses mksystem 02:35:52 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.211] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:35:53 gko [~gko@111.70.222.105] has joined #lisp 02:36:56 mk:defsys works just fine. 02:38:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:41 Ok, it's just not that many projects use that anymore 02:39:22 Old doesn't mean it's bad. What are we heading for? Logan's Run? 02:39:24 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:39:27 Er, to, not for. 02:40:11 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:40:23 -!- Jamamooga_ [~Jamamooga@74-95-42-29-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:41:54 In sbcl, does load-shared-object work with OSX's dylib libraries? 02:43:06 Oops. I need to rebuild the libraries for a 32-bit sbcl. 02:44:56 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 02:45:00 peterhil: It's building!!!!! 02:45:15 Dang. It stopped building. 02:45:30 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:47:25 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:31 On # ? 02:47:49 Yes. A stupid mistake defining dgelsy twice. 02:47:56 Kill the last one. 02:48:14 It works! 02:48:30 [1 2; 3 4] -> # 02:48:41 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-24-0-146-14.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:52:40 rtoym: Cool! Now off to reading the fine manual... :-D 02:52:48 Thanks 02:53:11 No problem. I'm checking in the changes now. Let me know how it goes. 02:54:01 How can I install the matlisp to get it easily started from slime? 02:54:49 I don't know if save-lisp-and-die will work with matlisp. I just start slime and manually (load "/start.lisp") 02:55:15 One issue: [1 2; 3 4] confuses slime. 02:56:34 Changes pushed. 02:57:38 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:51 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:29 When I do that, it seems that SLIME or SBCL does not know about the logical root matlisp: "Couldn't load "matlisp:srcdir;maxima.asd": file does not exist." 02:58:50 Ok. Let me look at it.... 02:59:45 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d049372.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 03:00:14 Same the next line and with config.lisp 03:01:15 I think I know what's wrong. Hold on. 03:03:13 In build/start.lisp, look for (flet ((default-dir. Delete that conditionals and just add (load-time-value *load-truename*) instead. 03:03:21 leo2007 [~leo@117.28.18.8] has joined #lisp 03:04:30 I forgot how to force slime to enter my input even if it appears incomplete. 03:04:52 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:04:57 Oh. It seems to be ok. Nevermind. 03:05:40 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:20 Ah, the problem seems to be that *default-pathname-defaults* is current working directory with SLIME 03:06:46 Right. But we need to setup things relative to where start.lisp is. 03:07:55 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has left #lisp 03:08:06 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:14 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:11:48 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441789.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12:43 -!- splittist [~splittist@235-145.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:13:00 peterhil: Let me know how things go. 03:13:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:44 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:17:12 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440959.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:19:47 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 03:20:47 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:15 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:36 I think I accidentally added a character "a" somewhere, or there is still some other problem, because I get "unbound variable A" 03:24:43 I try to hunt it down... 03:27:08 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:11 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440959.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:27:20 A git status should tell you, right? 03:28:41 All, right found it and got it working - I experimented with the load lines on start.lisp and forgot the change slashes back to semicolons... Git status does not tell with the untracked build dir. 03:30:48 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 03:31:36 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 03:31:58 rtoym: Matlisp looks exactly what I've been looking for! 03:32:03 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440645.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:35:04 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:45 why is it that (current-directory) works in my slime repl but in my .lisp file that I load with C-c C-l it says "undefined function current-directory" ? 03:39:50 jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:04 rien: Maybe you should specify the package where current-directory function lives or use that package? 03:41:26 I don't know where it lives. I think it's from ccl 03:42:24 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:42:32 ok I did ccl:current-directory, seems to work now. thanks! 03:43:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:44:55 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:45:44 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.179] has joined #lisp 03:46:47 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:00 rtoym: Is there a manual for Matlisp somewhere? Specifically I want to know how to handle complex numbers. 03:48:03 -!- yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:48:12 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 03:48:45 Spion_ [~spion@77.29.250.12] has joined #lisp 03:48:48 -!- Spion_ [~spion@77.29.250.12] has quit [Changing host] 03:48:48 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:48:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.211.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:48 Or should i just use apropos and help? 03:52:13 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:19 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:52:34 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:11 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440645.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:54 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:02 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: True Grit is on TV!] 04:02:39 gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.216.32] has joined #lisp 04:03:48 peterhil: Sorry, but apropos and help is about it. What do you want to do with complex numbers. 04:04:08 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441930.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:06:03 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:05 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 04:10:28 Anyway: Now I can do (map-matrix #'exp (m* (* i pi2 1/8) v)), which is what I've been wanting to do *easily* for some time now. 04:10:54 Now I can maybe start porting my sound synthesis engine from NumPy to CL... Finally. :-) 04:12:22 So basically I want to make oscillators. 04:12:43 can anybody help me try to figure out why the hunchentoot test isn't working? no errors are thrown, I can asdf:load-op :hunchentoot-test fine... but can't see anything on the localhost:4242/hunchentoot/test url 04:12:49 I had it working before 04:13:05 zerian [~zerian@c-67-168-78-110.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:28 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:34 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:14:18 -!- zerian [~zerian@c-67-168-78-110.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:14:26 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 04:14:27 I knew there must be some better API to BLAS/LAPACK than GSLL. 04:15:40 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 04:15:40 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 04:15:40 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 04:17:09 Btw, why everybody uses BLAS and LAPACK? Is Fortran just so fast on numerical computations or are they just so well established, tested and comprehensive that one one has bothered to write similar grade library? 04:17:19 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.108] has joined #lisp 04:17:25 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:17:25 nuntius [~nuntius@pool-71-162-117-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:31 vincleo [~vincleo@116.231.113.234] has joined #lisp 04:17:43 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:35 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.58] has left #lisp 04:20:03 peterhil: Probably a bit of both. And if you really want something faster, get a build of ATLAS, a specially (automatically) tuned version of parts of BLAS and LAPACK. It's significantly faster than plain BLAS/LAPACK. 04:20:44 peterhil: Is the complex number issue solved? 04:22:24 -!- rien is now known as rien|home 04:25:00 -!- vincleo [~vincleo@116.231.113.234] has left #lisp 04:25:00 I have built ATLAS for use with NumPy 04:25:06 vincleo [~vincleo@116.231.113.234] has joined #lisp 04:25:09 -!- vincleo [~vincleo@116.231.113.234] has left #lisp 04:25:56 rtoym: Yes, with the help of m* as it seems to coerce real matrices to complex if needed 04:26:32 That's the ease of use I'm talkin is missing from gsll 04:26:40 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:26:44 I think if I were doing matlisp again, I would have made +, -, *, and / work with matrices by shadowing them appropriately. 04:27:36 I have enough to think about how to control amplitude envelopes of tens or even hundreds of oscillators along with other parameters to not think about coercion everywhere 04:28:08 That would be handy. And multiple arguments to m* (or shadowing *) 04:28:30 But maybe I make some helper functions 04:28:50 Multiple args for m* is a good idea. 04:29:56 rtoym: If you want to want to really improve matlips, I suggest you look at the chapter about NumPy iterators in Beautiful Code 04:30:28 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:52 I don't know how Matlisp handles multiple dimensional matrices now, but there is some powerful ideas. Instead of making loops, the NumPy iterator calculates the order in which to traverse (iterate) through the matrices. The author tells how that idea eventually made some ideas like automatic broadcasting and other things possible. 04:32:23 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 04:32:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 04:32:23 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:32:43 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 04:32:50 Currently, matlisp doesn't support anything larger than matrices. Would be possible to extend to any number of dimensions. 04:33:03 It also uses strides to provide views into (sub)matrices. A stride could also include a step, which is used for example to broadcast a scalar to a matrix, the step being 0 in that case. 04:34:04 And the broadcasting works if the matrices have the same length or length one in trailing dimension 04:35:54 I'll think about these things. Slices into a matrix would be good. 04:35:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:08 -!- sbahra_ [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra_] 04:36:38 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 04:36:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 04:36:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:37:03 There is a presentation about NumPy iterators: http://mentat.za.net/numpy/scipy2009/davidc_numpy_advanced.pdf 04:37:12 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:37:13 And about the broadcastin rules: http://www.scipy.org/EricsBroadcastingDoc 04:37:40 But in Beatiful code, the multi-dimensional iterator idea is well explained 04:38:05 awesome-o_ [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has joined #lisp 04:38:11 -!- awesome-o_ [~anonymous@76.14.66.154] has quit [Client Quit] 04:39:29 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:39:43 Thanks for the links. 04:40:12 Google books has a preview of Beautiful Code: http://books.google.fi/books?id=gJrmszNHQV4C&pg=PA303 04:41:45 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Quit: later] 04:41:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:18 vincleo [~vincleo@116.231.113.234] has joined #lisp 04:44:26 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:28 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 04:45:32 There's also multiple chapters on the end, where Lisp is being used. Chapter 31 for example tells about the development of emacspeak - an interface for blind people to emacs. In case someone is interested... 04:48:11 jso` [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:32 -!- jso [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:44 rootlocus [~rootlocus@2402:1800:1:2801:226:4aff:fe09:eee2] has joined #lisp 04:51:15 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:51:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:04 any news for alu.org? 04:52:20 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 04:53:21 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:28 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 04:53:36 nuntius: what news are you waiting for? 04:53:52 news to put on the website. 04:54:10 things of general interest to the lisp community. 04:54:12 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 04:54:15 oh, no idea 04:55:44 -!- vincleo [~vincleo@116.231.113.234] has left #lisp 04:55:50 Is the current alu.org color scheme acceptable? Suggestions welcome. 04:57:11 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:25 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 05:00:44 rtoym: Just found about make-*-mapper macros in map.lisp... Maybe the source is best documentation after all. :-) 05:02:47 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:23 rtoym: How can I make a regular lisp array or vector from the matlisp ones? 05:05:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:05:40 vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.22.83.150.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:09:35 evening folks 05:11:07 evening slyrus 05:11:11 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:11:53 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 05:12:24 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:13:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:18:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:27:35 -!- konr [~user@187.106.35.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:37 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:28:00 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 05:30:08 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:22 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:32 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.172.182] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 05:33:11 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:28 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:19 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 05:36:08 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:42 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:37 pnq [~nick@AC8193AB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 05:40:39 nibin [~nick@27.251.16.194] has joined #lisp 05:41:27 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 05:43:15 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:46:29 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 05:46:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:48 nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:44 -!- Liera`` is now known as Liera 05:52:39 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:54:27 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:47 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:21 any ASDF wizards around? 05:56:00 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:56:23 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:49 IMO, asdf wizardry verges on cleverness. 05:57:16 :( asdf2 is totally harshing my mellow 06:01:40 slyrus: what was your question about? 06:02:42 nuntius: the fact that operate isn't easily extended 06:03:42 it seems to me that the first part of operate should be to do the (system (if (typep system 'component) system (find-system system))) rebinding and then it should call operate again with a more specialized method kicking in 06:04:04 Oh. that's one of the things people don't like about asdf. ASDF2 made it slightly worse by introducing an internal file renaming step. 06:06:04 In asdf, everything is entangled. Dependency tracking, invoking operations, figuring out what to invoke, ... 06:07:25 for all their flaws (portable shell, portable make, m4, and perl), the gnu autotools a very good factorization of the problem domain: distribute, configure, build, install 06:07:48 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 06:08:09 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:11:11 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:13:32 rtoym: I guess by defining a function in matlisp package that accesses the store properly 06:13:36 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:08 chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 06:16:15 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:44 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:18:50 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:19:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:19:51 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vcsnmwuxkewmgjwj] has joined #lisp 06:21:13 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:22:44 nostoi [~nostoi@192.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:03 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:26:10 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:27:28 xinming_ [~hyy@115.223.131.21] has joined #lisp 06:28:31 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:28:57 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:30:41 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.15.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:17 -!- nuntius [~nuntius@pool-71-162-117-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 06:35:20 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:42 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:10 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@192.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:36:37 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:42:30 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:42 Is ~/.abclrc the RC file of ABCL ? Doesn't look to be read, I have to explicitely "--load" it... 06:43:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:59 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8193AB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:48:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:49:56 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:50:38 gko: it should be read auoamtically 06:51:14 gko: Are you under a *NIX? 06:53:01 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:32 easyE: Windows 06:53:41 Put it in %HOME% 06:53:50 AH. Maybe $HOME isn't what you think it is... 06:53:57 (directory "~") does what? 06:54:43 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:55:13 nil 06:55:26 Actually we're looking in the contents of the 'user.home' Java system property. 06:55:44 oh ok... 06:56:59 (jstatic "java.lang.System" "getProperty" "user.home")? 06:57:24 Try putting '.abclrc' in that directory. 06:58:07 err 06:58:14 (jstatic "getProperty" "java.lang.System" "user.home") 06:59:15 I use -Duser.home=%HOME% in the launcher. 06:59:36 That will work. 06:59:49 yeah. thanks 06:59:54 Np. Enjoy 07:00:35 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:00:35 There is a 'java.options' in the 'build.properties' file to customize the build if you are using the source to compile. 07:01:17 no, I just get the jar and put it in my Dropbox setup. 07:02:05 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 07:02:31 PatrickRobotham [~chatzilla@ppp118-209-35-29.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:33 Nice to have a JVM Common Lisp... 07:05:25 What do you use to unify all stuff like retrieving command line options, environment variables, load paths, ... ? Tons of #+... ? 07:05:59 compatibility layers 07:06:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:07:48 DIY or ASDF'ed ? 07:08:58 written by someone else 07:09:53 stassats: BTW I found a bug counting nicks in my script; the scale has changed a bit. 07:10:06 ok 07:10:20 but the line itself is mostly the same 07:10:48 -!- PatrickRobotham [~chatzilla@ppp118-209-35-29.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 07:11:03 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-eqklktskgnzolgll] has joined #lisp 07:14:14 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@2402:1800:1:2801:226:4aff:fe09:eee2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:16:58 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:58 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:10 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:25:18 parasol [~thien@c-174-62-209-58.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:46 jso`` [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:16 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:27:06 -!- jso` [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:28:49 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:29:03 nostoi [~nostoi@192.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:03 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@192.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:10 e-user [~akahl@192.100.120.41] has joined #lisp 07:31:16 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:34:25 red1ynx [~red1ynx@178.126.205.190] has joined #lisp 07:34:58 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:38 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:36:44 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.52.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:37:13 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.22.83.150.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 07:37:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:12 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:43 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.160.53] has joined #lisp 07:42:56 Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has joined #lisp 07:45:35 -!- parasol [~thien@c-174-62-209-58.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45:59 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:46 Areil [~Areil@123.20.52.228] has joined #lisp 07:47:53 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 07:48:44 splittist [~splittist@226-144.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:53:22 Davsebamse [~das@94.127.50.104] has joined #lisp 07:53:22 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.160.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:53 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.160.53] has joined #lisp 07:55:05 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:58:24 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:58:26 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:59:08 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.160.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:59:28 -!- LittleQNCCU [~littleq@dream.cs.nccu.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:59:35 LittleQNCCU [~littleq@dream.cs.nccu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 08:00:23 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:00:36 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:51 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:07:37 -!- frvallee [~chatzilla@magique.labri.fr] has left #lisp 08:08:31 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host21.190-230-177.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 08:09:00 Hi there! I've just started reading TSPL4 and wanted to recommendations about which scheme implementation (for linux) choose. Sorry if this is not the suitable channel 08:09:10 alcuadrado: #scheme 08:09:21 thanks :) 08:09:36 and sorry 08:09:38 see ya 08:09:41 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host21.190-230-177.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 08:10:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:13:15 frvallee [~chatzilla@magique.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:25:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:31 -!- nibin [~nick@27.251.16.194] has left #lisp 08:28:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:28:49 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eeiiunpaldnczpwj] has joined #lisp 08:28:49 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eeiiunpaldnczpwj] has quit [Changing host] 08:28:49 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:31:58 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:26 slash_ [~unknown@pD955AE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 08:43:00 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:44:41 -!- gko [~gko@111.70.222.105] has quit [] 08:47:31 mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:50:15 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:50:34 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-61-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:50:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:51:33 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:51:49 (let ((a 0) (b a)) ...) 08:51:54 Is that not doable ? 08:52:46 no 08:52:49 :( 08:52:50 Damn it 08:52:50 clhs let* 08:52:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 08:53:39 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:54:05 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-74-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:54:05 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:57:57 aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:02:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:22 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:04:34 That is somewhat annoying :| 09:04:45 what is? 09:05:47 Erm talking to myself 09:06:06 talking to yourself is annoying indeed 09:07:34 jsoft: did you see stassats' suggestion to use let* (it is what you are looking for)? 09:08:02 I am using let* now :) 09:08:56 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:10:23 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:11:14 stipet [~user@ua.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:55 H4ns`` [~user@p579F8F4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:56 dangN [~max@p5DE8F2D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:00 hiho 09:15:16 yo 09:15:40 I am about to write my first "real" macro 09:16:35 but what I am unsure about is if what I want is even possible 09:17:58 -!- H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E8FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:30 what do you want? 09:21:49 Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.160.53] has joined #lisp 09:22:21 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@113.162.160.53] has quit [Client Quit] 09:22:39 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:03 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:24:03 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 09:24:03 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:26:58 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:30:43 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has left #lisp 09:31:54 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:32:01 nikodemus: btw, i get a failure for BUG-654289 test 09:32:19 nikodemus: testing 1.0.46.17 09:32:36 nikodemus: have not checked anything yet 09:32:39 just informing 09:34:22 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 09:34:27 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:30 fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-190-234-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:36:53 -!- frvallee [~chatzilla@magique.labri.fr] has left #lisp 09:38:08 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:39:12 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-238-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:41:14 jdz: that test is my bane 09:42:21 nikodemus: yeah, i read the comments on launchpad 09:42:31 lp 654289 09:42:31 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/654289 09:42:47 brodo [~brodo@p5B0244CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:58 it would be much appreciated if you could stick (print times) in there and put that in a comment in the bug 09:44:02 jdz: the output from the print, not (print times), that is :) 09:45:15 resulting times for a few runs would be even better... 09:49:28 nikodemus: well, i guess it's not what you'd expect: (0 0 0 0 0) 09:49:44 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3254.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:51:29 are computers getting too fast or what? 09:53:08 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 09:54:35 nikodemus: i have a laptop with 2.6GHz i7, if it matters 09:57:30 Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:58:05 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:59:35 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 10:00:39 -!- stipet [~user@ua.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: Reboot] 10:02:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:03:16 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBB80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:13 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:14 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B0244CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 10:10:27 jdz: wait, that doesn't make sense 10:10:30 brodo [~brodo@p5B0244CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:37 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B0244CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:11:13 (> (* (+ 2 0) 2) 0) => T -- so why does the assert fail? 10:13:15 nikodemus: indeed, the test succeeds if run separately. ill try doing the whole testsuite again 10:14:15 hmm, or was i compiling something else at the same time? 10:14:28 i'll try to reproduce it again 10:15:09 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00305e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:36 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-aigobxljuenuygbd] has joined #lisp 10:20:02 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-zeqxrzbozdhxubex] has joined #lisp 10:20:08 ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uwtucuvpydbcrxum] has joined #lisp 10:20:31 OT, excempt from man perldata: This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird. gotta love that language! :) 10:22:19 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:22:39 lol 10:22:43 that is cool 10:22:54 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:23:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:36 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:32 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:26:41 dangN: it def. is wierd that if you have $foo and @foo then $foo[1] is a member of @foo.. :D 10:26:48 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:26:58 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:28:23 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:28:46 nikodemus: ok, it's hard to reproduce, but i managed to do it once (compiling some other stuff simultaneously); the list was (0 0 0 0 10) 10:29:29 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:41 udzinari: and $foo{bar} is a member of %foo, not $foo 10:31:11 now it's very very off-topic 10:32:25 kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-jnnyksckpthlqzky] has joined #lisp 10:33:00 ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ibjercdejiqnsnli] has joined #lisp 10:34:19 jdz: thanks 10:34:39 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:34:39 . 10:34:40 . 10:36:24 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-zeqxrzbozdhxubex] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:36:48 -!- ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uwtucuvpydbcrxum] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:39:53 nikodemus: i can't put into the right words, but should the test maybe compare the growth of time compared to growth of n and try to deduct if it is as expected (like, linear)? 10:39:55 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 10:39:55 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 10:39:55 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:40:32 -!- fantazo__ [~fantazo@178-190-234-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:54 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:17 nikodemus: the test does this to some extent now, but in my case it only has a single data point 10:41:41 jdz: yeah 10:42:33 alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has joined #lisp 10:44:08 nikodemus: a relatively easy thing would be to get 5 non-zero timings 10:47:12 How to flush stdout? 10:47:22 clhs finish-output 10:47:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 10:47:29 or force-output 10:47:45 Thanks 10:49:48 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 10:51:07 Damn it, seems I have no threading support on this sbcl :( 10:56:09 konr [~user@187.106.35.228] has joined #lisp 10:56:48 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:47 threads build by default linux/x86[-64] only 11:03:04 s/default/default on/ 11:03:12 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:44 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-9-135.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 11:05:26 How to add many directories in some-directory to adsf:*central-registry* ? 11:05:57 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 11:07:33 prljavi_hari: DOLIST? 11:07:59 on what ? 11:08:28 prljavi_hari: on your directories 11:08:48 clhs directory 11:08:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dir.htm 11:10:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:10:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:10:52 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:10:52 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:52 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 11:14:23 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:22:23 (directory "some-dir/*") doesn't list all subdirectories ? 11:22:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:23:47 because you're not asking for directories 11:23:58 try "some-dir/*/" 11:24:13 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:05 no, I just get nil 11:25:56 in the first case it returned just one file 11:26:08 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:26:22 vitka [~vitka@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 it's a clozure lisp 11:27:06 too bad, the wild directory does not seem to work on ccl 11:27:47 i'd expect it to work, and it works in SBCL, but i have no time at the moment to read the spec 11:28:24 ok 11:29:36 "some-dir/*/*.asd" does work, if it helps 11:30:53 -!- nilly [~nil@c-98-247-253-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 11:30:53 with a combination with PATHNAME-DIRECTORY and REMOVE-DUPLICATES you might probably get what you want 11:31:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:31:18 i.e., get all the directories which have .asd files in them 11:33:35 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@87.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:33:48 I read the ccl docs. (directory "some-dir/*/" :directories t) works. 11:34:49 prljavi_hari: good job! 11:35:37 how to turn off smilies in Pidgin ? 11:36:46 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 11:37:29 prljavi_hari: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pidgin+disable+smilies 11:38:27 flip214: do you have some nice diagrams of #users in #lisp? 11:38:35 amb007 [~a_bakic@87.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:41 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 11:47:32 churib: http://fsvs-software.org/lisp/lisp-nicks.png 11:49:51 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-9-135.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 11:51:16 slash_1 [~unknown@pD955E63C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:31 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955AE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:53:05 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:33 tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:53:36 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:54:01 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 11:54:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:11 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:20 nice! 11:55:41 -!- vitka [~vitka@gw1.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:56:31 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:04:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:07:16 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:08:20 vitka [~vitka@gw1.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 12:08:28 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5DDBB80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:39 -!- christoph [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has left #lisp 12:10:22 hello. I am currently trying to implement something that does not need cpu performance that much, but it needs high performance in file-io. in clisp, there is mmap and stuff, but it appears that the things are converted to lisp-sequences all the time, which takes a lot of time. do you have any suggestions on what to use to have fast file access? 12:10:51 at least use SBCL? 12:12:41 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-101-191-198.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:46 silenius [~silenus@p5DDBB80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:33 hmmm, there's sb-posix and sb-unix, but that is fairly low-level .... do you need to work with individual bytes, characters, or structures? binary compatibility to other programs? or is that just a kind of swap area? 12:15:32 i'm using mmap on SBCL all the time, although mmap isn't exactly a synonym of high-performance IO 12:16:20 flip214: I need access to the bytes. that is the main problem: with sb-posix, one gets foreign structures. 12:16:38 flip214: I do not know whether the access to them is fast. 12:16:46 stassats: and how do you access the mmapped pages? 12:16:56 with sap-ref 12:16:58 well, in sbcl you can use mmap and sap-ref-8 12:17:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:15 I used that for framebuffer access (although with sap-ref-32) 12:17:30 should be fast enough 12:17:42 flip214: is sap-ref-32 from sb-vm? 12:17:51 (ie. there's not that much between your program and the data) 12:18:26 sb-sys 12:18:27 sb-sys:sap-ref-32 12:18:28 ok 12:18:36 should be fine to me. 12:19:04 hm. but mmap only works on 32 bit architectures with files not larger than 4 G. does the mmap on sb-posix support large offsets? 12:23:13 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:48 frvallee [~chatzilla@magique.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:26:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:26 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.172.182] has joined #lisp 12:30:50 flip214: what happened in the year 2010? second ai-winter? :) 12:31:17 how should I know? I just d/l the irc logs and got them counted 12:31:46 Well, it could be distraction through perl6 ... 12:32:11 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:33:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 12:34:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:35:15 the plateau in 2008 is explained by Arc release, so yeah, perl6 in 2010 is plausible 12:36:27 -!- alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has quit [Quit: alama] 12:38:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.18.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:42:48 -!- kdas__ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-jnnyksckpthlqzky] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:45:02 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:24 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.172.182] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 12:45:36 Hm or it has something to do with clojure 12:47:57 minion: memo for schoppenhauer: have a look at http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=93bf3bb3b09b8d987d915905d6e85d00c0640735&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=clisp/raw-memory.lisp and http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=f1c929226c94cba3bb3921abd05356888443d6a0&hb=a78d355f14d88a86e420a63e6d2116587b006975&f=clisp/raw-memory-lib.c 12:47:57 Remembered. I'll tell schoppenhauer when he/she/it next speaks. 12:48:57 i think doing word-count analysis might tell something about what caused the spikes and valleys 12:49:47 -!- frvallee [~chatzilla@magique.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:17 misza222 [~misza@87.112.152.49] has joined #lisp 12:53:46 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 nikodemus: just the most popular words of each month, or something else? 12:54:25 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-20.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:56:59 flip214: and you can cross-check with logs from clozure 12:57:44 some days are absent in tunes, yesterday, for example 12:59:01 CallToPower [~CallToPow@xdsl-92-252-44-237.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:55 -!- pers [~user@182.sub-75-193-21.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:00:55 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:01:53 flip214: dunno about the details -- never done any analysis like that 13:03:00 flip214: presumably interesting things are words that are "more common during this segment than in general" and "less common during this segment than in general" 13:03:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:30 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:03:37 minion: chant! 13:03:37 MORE COMMON 13:03:44 Lisp 13:03:53 flip214: even just a count of words spoken per day might be interesting - is silence a leading indicator of shrinkage? 13:04:16 can you measure grumpiness? 13:05:11 np if you tell me some words to look for 13:05:42 "troll" 13:06:34 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@xdsl-92-252-44-237.dip.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 13:06:38 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5DDBB80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:07:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:08:42 peterhil: How would you like to extract the contents of a matlisp matrix? Do you want to create a new Lisp array of the same shape and type as the matlisp matrix? Or something else? 13:09:29 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:09:37 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 13:13:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:41 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:15:26 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:40 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:16:33 loke [~elias@bb219-75-125-147.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:17:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:55 -!- astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20:48 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 13:21:29 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 13:21:29 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 13:21:29 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 13:22:24 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:22 greaver [~joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:23:46 -!- greaver [~joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:25:48 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:25:52 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:26:36 -!- rien|home [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:28:26 alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has joined #lisp 13:28:36 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:28:43 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 13:29:14 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 13:29:47 hello lispers 13:31:15 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Client Quit] 13:31:47 hello kiuma 13:32:12 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 13:32:16 is ucw maintained anymore? 13:32:21 urandom__ [~user@p548A52B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:45 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:34 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 13:36:00 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 13:37:35 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:40 alama: UCW is free software: it is maintained by its users. 13:38:46 kenyao [~kenyao@113.111.171.61] has joined #lisp 13:39:53 are there any? 13:40:12 are there any web-frameworks with more than one user (the author)? 13:40:47 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:58 weblocks comes to mind. 13:43:59 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@113.111.171.61] has quit [Quit: My God! Gone...] 13:44:42 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.252.10] has joined #lisp 13:48:06 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:57 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@88.207.103.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:51:37 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-64-168.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:52:24 nikodemus, stassats: http://fsvs-software.org/lisp/lisp-cloj.png - please mind that clojure uses the y2 axes 13:52:32 I don't think there's a clear correlation 13:52:42 *kiuma* shuts his mouth, shamed because he hasn't witten the manual yet 13:53:41 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:37 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:31 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:27 stassats: I am writing my own too :D 13:59:31 -!- aerique [310225@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:59:39 with cl you just dont need a framework 13:59:42 ;) 13:59:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:00:47 borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:49 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:23 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:31 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 14:02:32 benny` [~benny@i577A2D4C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:38 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 14:02:45 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:06 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:52 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 14:04:28 flip214: that's interesting, it looks like that less than 80 CL people tried clojure. 14:04:40 perhaps 14:05:03 I tried it, but I didn't really feel like learning java at the same time 14:05:09 didn't analyze the data, just produced the graphics ;-) 14:05:21 flip214: you should script it so that it's published regularly. 14:05:27 dlowe: you mean not everyone knows java already? 14:06:00 pjb: regularly, as in one every year or so? with more than 10 years daily updates won't be really visible 14:06:49 flip214: quarterly with rss feed 14:06:52 had the same problem with Scala. It's just about impossible to use JVM languages for something non-trivial without learning all the Java underpinnings 14:07:59 dlowe: same problem for lisp-hosted lisps, though. 14:08:07 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 14:08:11 you have to learn lisp just to use it. 14:08:20 lol 14:08:28 learn lisp to use lisp 14:08:32 sounds fine 14:08:34 hopefully quicklisp can take that learning step out. 14:08:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.252.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:27 -!- ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ibjercdejiqnsnli] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:37 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 14:10:58 who logs this IRC data anyways? freenode? 14:11:41 dangN: individuals 14:11:58 Xach: You aren't necessarily bound by the host lisp's exception structure, type hierarchy, boxing/unboxing behaviors, etc like you are with the JVM 14:12:20 minion: tell dangN about logs 14:12:20 dangN: please see logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 14:12:29 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:06 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:13:23 so these people thought, hey it would be cool to have this data in 2011? 14:13:29 I am impressed :D 14:14:38 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:15:10 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:35 -!- borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:10 buzzz, in my mind. How do you see webkit+CL ? 14:20:29 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 14:21:12 -!- jso`` [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:22:23 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:12 kiuma: as in a CL wrapped webkit browser? 14:24:47 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:52 dangN, yes 14:25:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 14:25:29 I am unsure wether webkit is a good thing to be honest 14:25:30 through commonqt 14:25:48 my professional experience with it is rather sucky 14:26:03 I'm just compiling chromium, it was because of this :) 14:27:19 I think that we dont need better browsers, we need a better web 14:27:27 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e197-188.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:27:36 xml -> trash, html -> trash, http 1.1 -> maybe ok 14:27:46 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:53 javascript <- LOL 14:28:15 so do better 14:28:19 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e197-188.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:36 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-38-142-34.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:02 dlowe: I guess I am too practically aligned to publish myself in a format that noone can read 14:29:14 but theoretically I'd say start from scratch 14:29:15 dangN: then stfu and gbtw 14:29:31 javascript is great if used correctly, I've promised to myself when I create new OOS projects, I'll never bother MSIE again for their site. 14:29:52 JS is a joke. 14:30:10 dangN: you're not helping anything by whinging. code more. 14:30:10 jso`` [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:11 its like an exploit had a child with BASIC 14:30:43 dlowe: well what are you doing just now? whining about me 14:30:50 If everyone would approach this method, 2 things may happen, one that people will stop using MSIE, the oter that MS bugfies MSIE. For me each solution is good 14:30:51 while coding :D 14:31:07 dlowe: second that :D 14:31:24 I even get paid for whining 14:31:24 dangN: I'm attempting to actually solve a problem, though 14:31:52 dlowe: me too, I am trying to weaken the follow the leader attitude 14:32:01 by pointing out that the leader sucks 14:32:05 dangN, I don't want to be offensive, but I think you underestimate JS because you don't know it very well 14:32:23 dangN: clearly we are both failing miserably 14:32:26 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 14:32:33 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:46 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 14:33:01 kiuma: no problem, I have written a few projects in JS and I am convinced that it can do anything, but also that it cant do anything well. 14:33:19 dlowe: you gotta be lovin it. 14:33:21 maybe it's the engine :) 14:33:39 that seems to be off-topic 14:33:59 yea, you are right, I'll stop it now 14:34:49 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:36:23 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:29 hmm, cl-gtk2-gtkglext can't build unless there's an x server with opengl support running. 14:37:34 *Xach* wonders why that's required at build-time 14:38:51 keyvan- [~keyvan@lgb-static-216.70.132.112.mpowercom.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 -!- CallToPower is now known as CallToPower|away 14:42:02 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:42:04 pmurias [~pawel@wifi.ii.uni.wroc.pl] has joined #lisp 14:42:11 how do i create an array out of a list? 14:42:29 pmurias: there are many ways. coerce is one way. 14:42:39 make-array can do it 14:42:48 That is another way. 14:43:18 (map 'vector 'identity list) is another 14:45:07 (read-from-string (format nil "#~a" list)) is yet another 14:45:10 (read-from-string (format nil "#~... argh 14:45:17 *Xach* was going to go with ~S 14:46:17 oh, indeed, it should be either ~s or ~w 14:47:01 but that's only a minor problem with this code 14:48:27 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 14:48:44 (map-into (make-array (length list)) 'identity list) 14:49:37 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 14:50:37 (length list) ;; that's inefficient, take this instead (loop with vector = (make-array 0 :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0) for i in list do (vector-push-extend i vector) finally (return vector)) 14:51:03 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:28 pmurias: which technique will you use? 14:51:55 -!- astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:14 stassats: depending on the resize-implementation of the vector you might end up with n/2-1 vector cells too much? 14:53:11 jesusito [~user@77.Red-80-58-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:31 -!- slash_1 is now known as slash_ 14:53:46 Phillip [~Phillip@c-174-53-229-4.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:01 or (loop with vector = (make-array (1- array-dimension-limit) :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0) for n from 0 for i in list do (vector-push i vector) finally (return (adjust-array vector n))) 14:56:23 That idiom should be in alexandria. 14:57:04 make-array with :initial-contents 14:58:19 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:54 stassats: Won't that basically kill your lisp if array-dimension-limit is really large like in a 64-bit lisp? 14:59:13 it might 15:00:31 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:36 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:03 rtoym: depends on overcommit settings and if it actually touches the allocated memory 15:01:08 my favorite solution: (flexi-streams:with-input-from-sequence (stream '(1 2 3 4)) (let ((vector (make-sequence 'vector 4))) (read-sequence vector stream) vector)) 15:01:41 needs an external library, but that's not a problem anymore, we have quicklisp 15:03:20 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 ilmari: Maybe. Will your machine allow you to allocate 2^61 (2^64?) bytes? 15:03:55 lisp: there's more than one sick way to do it 15:04:35 -!- pmurias [~pawel@wifi.ii.uni.wroc.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:06:52 gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 15:07:16 -!- vitka [~vitka@gw1.masterhost.ru] has left #lisp 15:09:23 rtoym: hm, no. 2^30 is the biggest I can malloc 15:09:35 due to address space fragmentation, presumably 15:10:07 here's a nickel, buy yourself more address space 15:10:17 this is a 64bit system 15:10:25 malloc: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, not stripped 15:10:34 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual 15:10:48 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:12:20 so it's an intel 15:12:43 also, I suspect the issue coms from trying to use malloc to allocate such a giant objct 15:12:46 *object 15:13:39 -!- astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@116.21.216.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:56 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff67ea.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:16:01 -!- madnificent is now known as sentros1 15:16:09 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vcsnmwuxkewmgjwj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:20 -!- sentros1 is now known as madnificent 15:18:44 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 15:19:01 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 15:19:36 I can mmap up to 2^63 15:19:48 (MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS) 15:19:52 dangN: not only in 2011. I can assure you this data will make its way to 2400 and beyond, it'll be loaded in the NSS Enterprise computer(s), and will serve to build the psychological profile of holodeck personages. 15:22:16 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-eqklktskgnzolgll] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:17 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:24:47 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff67ea.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:13 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-aigobxljuenuygbd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:10 -!- alama [~alama@194.117.18.99] has quit [Quit: alama] 15:29:31 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:18 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:33:58 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 morning 15:34:41 oudeis [~oudeis@64.134.47.245] has joined #lisp 15:36:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:58 slyrus: do you eat cinnamon toast crunch in the morning 15:38:17 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff67ea.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:38:52 Quadrescence: why do you ask? 15:39:09 The probability of that occuring might be low. It might have happened to be once. 15:39:26 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:13 pjb: i don't know, i have the munchies right now so i felt more inclined to ask about food than to ask about parentheses 15:40:39 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 Quadrescence: Knock it off. 15:42:22 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:45:35 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:54 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 15:47:19 cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.0.250] has joined #lisp 15:47:37 ikki [~ikki@189.247.114.173] has joined #lisp 15:49:08 Spion__ [~spion@77.29.250.12] has joined #lisp 15:49:52 TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #lisp 15:50:31 ericklc [~ikki@189.139.132.217] has joined #lisp 15:50:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:51:29 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has joined #lisp 15:52:56 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53:03 astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 15:53:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.114.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:56:25 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-230-164-105.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:59:17 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.139.132.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:08 -!- Davsebamse [~das@94.127.50.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:43 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-9-135.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 16:04:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:24 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08:54 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-aawuawgylbynkpsd] has joined #lisp 16:09:03 -!- rien|work [~user@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:27 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e197-188.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B327B10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:28 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:52 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.221] has joined #lisp 16:13:05 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:15:11 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B72E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:57 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:19:47 prljavi_hari pasted "errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120126 16:19:53 rien [~user@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:08 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66.87.0.250] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 16:20:32 prljavi_hari: try (cl:defpackage ...) and (cl:in-package ...) 16:20:37 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e197-188.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:20:48 prljavi_hari: the errors stem from having *package* be a package that does not use the common-lisp package. 16:22:40 but there is (:use :cl 16:23:05 -!- e-user [~akahl@192.100.120.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:21 it works ok in lispworks 16:24:30 prljavi_hari: the package you are attempting to define is not the package causing the problem. 16:24:31 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 16:24:44 prljavi_hari: the problem is the value of *package* at the point you attempt to load the file. 16:26:10 You may mitigate these problems by starting your lisp sources with (|CL|:|IN-PACKAGE| :|CL-USER|) 16:26:50 wouldn't work in modern mode 16:26:53 But this would disable any attempt to provide operators such as in-package and defpackage outside of CL. (Eg as extensions). 16:27:03 stassats: that's the reason modern mode is evil and should not be used. 16:27:22 stassats: there's no need to repeat our discussion about it. 16:27:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:28:02 that's clozure 16:28:23 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD955E63C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:28:27 it works ok in lispworks 16:29:00 or maybe it's the reason modern mode is awesome and should be the default. :) 16:29:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:39 foom: if it was swichabl per-package, maybe 16:30:07 prljavi_hari: Do you understand what I'm telling you? 16:30:24 not really 16:31:22 what should I do ? 16:31:26 gko [~gko@223-138-129-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:33 p_l annotated #120126 "correction" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120126#1 16:31:54 prljavi_hari: ^ 16:32:16 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:00 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:06 ok, I'll try that 16:33:14 -!- gko [~gko@223-138-129-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:18 thanks 16:33:54 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff67ea.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:34:23 -!- Phillip [~Phillip@c-174-53-229-4.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:16 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:38 prljavi_hari: do you know how interning symbols works? 16:37:07 thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has joined #lisp 16:37:42 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@209.221.3.130] has left #lisp 16:38:47 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:53 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@lgb-static-216.70.132.112.mpowercom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:03 -!- astoon [~astoon@178-16-146-17.obit.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:17 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45:20 Xach: no 16:46:36 -!- hermitek [~hermitek@ip-89-102-35-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:16 -!- cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:50 now I can't include any package like for exampld be name conflictse (:use :cl-who). It says that it can't use it because there woul 16:48:19 sorry 16:49:16 prljavi_hari: now I can't include any package like for example (:use :cl-who). It says that it can't use it because there would be name conflicts 16:50:00 hmmm 16:50:03 paste? 16:50:09 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:50:26 just start a fresh instance. 16:50:32 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:50:48 any whole program is written without using package prefixes 16:51:17 which is normal 16:51:18 what makes a program whole? 16:51:19 prljavi_hari: false 16:51:39 *p_l|backup* actually is thinking of using a custom reader just so he can use prefixes more effectively 16:51:58 keyvan- [~keyvan@lgb-static-216.70.132.112.mpowercom.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:55 conflicts between same symbols 16:54:05 pmurias [~pawel@89-72-232-106.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 16:56:22 with-html-output is in the program and if add (:use :cl-who), then it says there would be a conflict between with-html-output and cl-who:with-html-output 16:56:35 I don't get it 16:57:09 paste? 16:57:10 because you typed the symbol with-html-output into the reader before using the package? 16:57:50 prljavi_hari: There's usually some sort of "resolve by uninterning existing symbols" restart. 17:00:29 bhyde [~user@18.111.84.10] has joined #lisp 17:01:55 prljavi_hari pasted "error example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120129 17:03:15 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:55 Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:04:23 here is what I get when trying to add (:use :postmodern). http://paste.lisp.org/+2KOX 17:04:40 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:39 prljavi_hari: what pkhuong said. 17:05:41 prljavi_hari: it had created all the symbols you had in your first code, so now they conflict when you try to redefine the package with correct ones 17:05:59 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:37 prljavi_hari: Are you using slime? 17:07:49 yses 17:08:13 slime/clozure/windows 17:08:39 prljavi_hari: So, when the debugger comes up, there should be an option that says "resolve by interning present" or something like that. 17:08:47 umm  uninterning 17:09:06 ok 17:09:20 prljavi_hari: Select that one, and you should be good to go. 17:09:34 prljavi_hari: also, let me guess, did you type this intoREPL, or did you use compile-file? 17:09:43 (C-c C-k iirc...) 17:10:07 compile/load file 17:10:24 -!- pmurias [~pawel@89-72-232-106.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:24 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:13:34 prljavi_hari: i recommend learning Lisp. 17:14:27 i get the option 0 shadow 1 unintern, I press 1 enter -> no input at point ? 17:15:04 I read Practical Common Lisp 17:15:30 I'm just half a year in lisp 17:15:54 olivier [~olivier@dra38-2-82-233-106-39.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 prljava_hari: now is the time to invest in learning a bit about packages. 17:16:00 -!- bhyde [~user@18.111.84.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:13 why can't I enter 1 to unintern ? 17:18:43 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.222] has joined #lisp 17:19:02 cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 17:19:04 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:18 prljavi_hari: you're question is meaningless. 17:21:19 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:35 prljavi_hari: perhaps you want to ask how to pass 1 as argument to the function unintern? 17:21:41 prljavi_hari: It sounds like the cursor is at the wrong place. 17:21:49 Arguments are passed to a function by mentionning them after the function name in the application list: 17:21:51 pjb: No, I think it's a prompt from the restart. 17:21:52 (unintern 1). 17:21:54 gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:56 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:22:02 Ah ok. 17:22:04 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:23 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:50 (some implementations use (restart 1) to invoke the 1st restart). 17:23:07 ok 17:24:21 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@lgb-static-216.70.132.112.mpowercom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:26 prljavi_hari: Read it again. Harder. 17:27:50 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-aawuawgylbynkpsd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:59 -!- jesusito [~user@77.Red-80-58-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:47 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:11 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:40 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:23 MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.76.157] has joined #lisp 17:32:47 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.80.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:41 gko [~gko@223-138-129-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:11 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:32 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:44:35 Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has joined #lisp 17:44:40 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-161-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:37 Pepe_ [~ppjet@static.205.131.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:40 alright, who's messing with the internets? 17:52:10 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:53:22 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 17:53:29 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD936BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:08 if i set a variable to a lambda, how do i call it ? 17:54:21 taylanub: FUNCALL 17:54:41 FUNCALL can call a function. APPLY can apply it. 17:55:36 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.196.159] has joined #lisp 18:03:01 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:03:01 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:03:50 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:24 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:24 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:05:00 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:07 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 18:11:14 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 18:12:09 how do i properly invoke 'true': (defvar true (lambda (x) (lambda (y) x))) 18:12:36 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:45 taylanub: true is not a CL keyword 18:12:52 (funcall true 42) 18:13:13 Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 taylanub: better to put asterisks around global special variables 18:13:22 Xach: that'll return a lambda. how will i invoke that one? (funcall (funcall true 42) 84) doesn't seem to work 18:13:41 taylanub: What did you expect to happen? 18:13:50 return 42 18:13:58 What happened instead? 18:13:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.196.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:17 undefined function: x 18:14:35 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:14:36 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe3ea.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:57 did you quote x? 18:15:00 taylanub: I can't reproduce. Did you faithfully transcribe into your repl what you just wrote on irc? 18:15:11 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 18:15:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 18:15:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:15:17 *p_l|backup* just typed the same code into SBCL and had it work properly... 18:16:17 (where) should i quote x ? 18:16:32 i typed exactly what i typed here 18:16:53 taylanub: could you paste the transcript to paste.lisp.org? 18:16:56 (except that i used 1 and 2 instead of 42 and 84, to be paranoid) 18:17:15 taylanub: you shouldn't quote x. that's why I was asking 18:17:35 dlowe: oh i've read that as "(do) quote x" 18:18:12 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:18:16 taylan pasted "true lambda" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120131 18:18:47 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 18:19:39 Did you cut out a bunch of style-warning output? 18:19:44 no 18:19:52 taylanub: What version of SBCL is that? 18:19:53 i get those with set instead of defvar though 18:20:06 Oh, I think I understand. 18:20:10 1.0.46 18:20:11 Try using defparameter instead of defvar. 18:20:26 if TRUE is already bound, subsequent defvars have no effect. 18:20:35 ouch 18:20:58 ok, that was the problem. works 18:21:53 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:21:55 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.100.142] has joined #lisp 18:22:13 defparameter is not standard ? 18:22:21 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:22:25 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 18:22:32 oh it is 18:22:32 Why do you ask that? 18:22:51 keyvan- [~keyvan@137.164.79.11] has joined #lisp 18:22:54 just wanted to know 18:23:04 There is an easy way to find out if a symbol has a standard meaning in CL: visit e.g. http://l1sp.org/cl/defparameter 18:23:17 i usually check CLtL2 18:23:45 That does not describe the final standard. 18:24:07 It's not a good first choice of reference, though it's a fun read after you can put it in context. 18:25:28 what's the year of the last one? the one i'm looking at has a bunch of notes like "X3J13 voted in ... to blah blah" 18:25:51 taylanub: cltl2 describes the standard as a work in progress 18:26:03 MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.157] has joined #lisp 18:26:03 taylanub: the final standard document is the hyperspec 18:26:23 or the terrible scanned-to-pdf-and-printed-out copy you can buy from ansi 18:26:33 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:44 and is cltl2 up to date, with the included notes ? 18:26:48 no 18:26:49 taylanub: No. 18:26:50 no, it's not 18:27:14 it's several years older than the real standard, so is definitely not up to date 18:27:25 CLtL afaik "bootstrapped" the standardization, while CLtL2 was "work in progress" quite a way before the finish 18:27:35 ok, i'll stop using it 18:27:55 the numbering was designed to confused future programmers 18:28:14 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:28:24 haha, I suspect that too (: 18:29:36 is there a comprehensive list of such changes (or list of ISSUEs more recent than those merged into cltl2)? 18:29:47 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.76.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:29:51 *lichtblau* is sure Xach has the KMP article URL memorized 18:30:18 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:30:20 the hyperspec has kind of an awful design... 18:30:29 taylanub: created long ago 18:30:46 and generated out of the source files for standard's first print 18:33:55 any opinions on the "Lisp primer" http://mypage.iu.edu/~colallen/lp/ ? 18:34:02 taylanub: there's a way to create better HTML from the final draft standard document (which was published almost verbatim - only changed the list of contributors) 18:34:13 -!- jso`` is now known as jso 18:34:14 taylanub: google for dpans2texi 18:34:37 also, an info file which may work well for you if you like emacs (: 18:35:27 taylanub: check out practical common lisp. it's a very good introduction: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 18:36:02 i'm already reading that one slowly 18:36:26 sweet (: 18:36:30 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 18:36:49 it has a good index too, so what you find in there should be in common lisp as well 18:36:59 but it's best to check with l1sp.org or the hyperspec if you're unsure 18:37:22 hrmm, the Lisp Primer is supposed to be a 'ground-up tutorial' in the traditional sense i guess. they tend to suck 18:39:07 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:40:13 -!- olivier [~olivier@dra38-2-82-233-106-39.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:41:35 xan_ [~xan@147.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:44:31 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:44:32 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:44:54 Xach: I'm playing around with your enhancement request now 18:45:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:46:40 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BADF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:17 oh well, CL doesn't really seem to go that well with direct lambda calculus 18:47:47 ikki [~ikki@189.139.132.217] has joined #lisp 18:47:52 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:04 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@147.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:58 V-ille: thanks! 18:50:26 a keyword argument for DIRECTORY is what I'll try first 18:50:57 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:19 V-ille: thanks. that actually causes minor problems for me, which surprised me. it's actually slightly easier to call a non-standard function in some other package than to pass an implementation-specific keyword to a standard function. 18:51:26 (i wouldn't let that fact change your implementation strategy, though) 18:51:42 oh.. well, if you prefer a separate function, it's trivial to do that way 18:51:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:54 it's the plumbing inside abcl that requires a bit of work 18:52:16 V-ille: it's kind of a wash. i already have to introduce the slight ugliness for many other CLs, so one more doesn't matter a lot to me. 18:52:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:19 well, it's your lucky day, I'll give you the keyword parameter *and* a separate function, then :) 18:53:31 *Xach* claps hands, squeals 18:54:00 This ugliness uncovered a bug in SBCL that nikodemus recently fixed, too. 18:54:14 (giving a full warning despite :allow-other-keys t) 18:55:34 aren't ACL's, CCL's and SBCL's implementation essentially compatible, except for the package they live in? 18:55:55 nikodemus: implementation of what? 18:55:59 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441930.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:26 oops, of REMOVE-DIRECTORY 18:56:42 sorry, DELETE-DIRECTORY, i mean := 18:57:06 nikodemus: ah, i'm thinking about CL:DIRECTORY and implementation-specific keywords like :truenamep or :resolve-symlinks, etc. 18:57:18 nikodemus: CLISP also gives a full warning despite :a-o-k 18:57:26 though i don't think that has the same asdf implications 18:58:38 i'm just somehow irrationally excited by the prospect of even a trivial extension where most major implementations have an essentially compatible API out of the box 18:58:49 -!- Areil [~Areil@123.20.52.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:21 I expect to get the :resolve-symlinks done much quicker than delete-directory 18:59:46 V-ille: delete-directory already works with the unix rmdir semantics 19:00:01 with that and the directory issue solved i can implement enough to do what i need 19:00:08 symlink issue resolved, that is 19:00:20 ok 19:00:39 *V-ille* is hacking 19:00:52 nikodemus: ccl and allegro have available delete-directory-tree semantics, and everyone else has the unixy delete-only-empty-directories stuff. 19:01:01 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442901.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:03 Xach: SBCL too! 19:01:17 nikodemus: what does sbcl call it? 19:01:33 Well, I'll be. I was using sb-posix. 19:01:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:01:43 *Xach* clearly should have looked harder 19:01:47 Xach: feel free to make wishes for the keyword arg name, and/or the name of the separate non-standard function? 19:01:56 (sb-ext:delete-directory "something/harmless" :recursive t) 19:02:03 nikodemus: tusen tack 19:02:15 och sjutton också 19:02:37 i saw clozure people talking about it on openmcl-devel and implemented the sbcl version the same day :) 19:02:58 industrial espionage 'r us! 19:03:15 *Xach* relentlessly marches the required CL implementation versions forward 19:03:32 V-ille: hmm, not sure. sbcl calls the keyword :resolve-symlinks and it defaults to t for CL semantics. 19:03:45 oh wait, clozure isn't clojure ! 19:04:21 and i was going wtf at clojure depending on Java 19:04:46 *sykopomp* is reminded of PG's comments about implementing the competitions' features so fast they thought Viaweb was spying. 19:06:42 dinnertime ---> 19:07:51 Xach: seems very reasonable to me, I'll do it that way 19:10:43 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:11:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:18 -!- Liera [~user@123.20.52.228] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:19:37 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:23:12 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:25:51 Davidbrcz_ [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:25:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:03 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:23 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 19:27:03 -!- keyvan- [~keyvan@137.164.79.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:07 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:01 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 19:30:21 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:01 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:09 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:15 How do I declare that a function doesn't /join #esperanto 19:36:33 Few functions join #esperanto, but I don't know how you can declare that, sorry. 19:36:35 uh... sorry, had some half-written question. :D Solved by googling 19:37:48 lol 19:38:06 lojban > esperanto /troll 19:39:19 taylanub: esperanto > (bigger than) lojban, but lojban may be better than esperanto. I don't care. Just wanted to check out the channel. 19:39:52 '>' means "greater than", not "bigger than" :P 19:40:03 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:40:18 lojban is to esperanto what scheme is to lisp (trollp) 19:40:22 then you may be right :D 19:40:38 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:41:13 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:42:36 aoh: nah, lojban is to esperanto what lisp is to visual basic 19:43:06 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 19:43:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:43:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:23 except that lisp and visual basic are actually useful 19:47:07 now THIS is TROLLP 19:48:18 how dare you say anything positive about any basic :P 19:48:21 this is actually on topic (-: 19:49:18 Xach: one thing I find missing from QL - an ability to download packages and register them in ql tree, but not load them 19:49:28 (other than possibly loading the system definitions) 19:50:03 p_l|backup: there's a function to do that, but it's not part part of the user interface directly. 19:50:11 p_l|backup: ql-dist:ensure-installed is the thing 19:50:19 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe3ea.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:50:19 ok, thanks 19:50:47 jesusito [~user@110.pool85-49-242.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:51:02 *p_l|backup* was looking into providing a nice environment for newbies (and not only) on Windows 19:51:09 keyvan- [~keyvan@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:49 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-41-181.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:58:56 lojban might have more sane grammar but learning random vocabs is no fun so i had more luck in learning esperanto for now 19:59:16 oh i am a bit late for trolling 19:59:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:01 *stassats* had more luck learning lisp 20:01:17 yeah you dont have to learn that much vocabs for lisp, you get used to cad, cdr and stuff quite fast 20:02:45 Esperanto seems like just another European language 20:03:19 well a more sane European language 20:03:21 taylanub: indeed, it took the vocabulary mainly from latin, greek, and a few other modern languages. 20:03:21 beach: around? 20:03:34 i thought mostly Spanish 20:03:39 taylanub: but the grammar rules are orthogonal and simple. There's 22 rules with no exception. 20:03:53 taylanub: most european languages are mostly latin with some greek. 20:04:29 since most of Europe was part of the Roman Empire. 20:04:39 no exceptions? sounds better than i thought 20:04:53 None. 20:05:08 the vocabulary is great, it makes esperato feel like an natural language for me, like an latin 2.0 , much betther than the random lojban stuff 20:05:08 Erm, except for the Germanic and Slavic languages 20:05:23 If only there was a channel dedicated to discussing such matters. 20:05:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.116.5] has joined #lisp 20:05:43 There are. 20:05:47 Newsgroup and irc channels. 20:05:55 also if you know Englisch you can gues at leat 25% of the vocabs 20:05:59 *TDT* watches Xach go on a rant about off-topic discussions :) 20:06:06 http://www.esperanto.net/veb/irc-esp-en.html 20:06:26 Yes, since English is the most Latin of the Germanic languages. 20:07:01 (Unfortunately, they were invaded toward the end of the Empire, and the Roman didn't have really enough time to civilize the Brittons). 20:07:12 We're left with the mess now. 20:07:16 hahahaha 20:08:22 esperanto would really make a good language for the european union 20:08:27 Indeed. 20:09:00 sad the people in charge are mostly fuckheads i gues 20:09:13 will be hard to convince them 20:09:19 at a certain point in history, the rest of england couldn't understand people living in the east of england because they supposedely had a french dialect... 20:09:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:45 I still can't understand people from Newcastle! 20:10:23 Normand dialect that was... 20:10:33 damn i love Turkish: "Avustralyallatramadklarmzdanmsnzcasna" 20:10:37 here in Germany i cant understand the people in the south even today ^^ 20:10:37 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-xrnhjxxexzdaoqao] has joined #lisp 20:10:50 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-xrnhjxxexzdaoqao] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:01 I really should mess with quicklisp one of these days. Only heard good things about it so far. 20:11:09 Maybe there could be some kind of "dialects of Lisp" angle to this discussion. 20:11:16 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-9-135.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 20:11:38 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:12:06 Well, on that tangent, Xach, http://hyperpolyglot.org/lisp :) 20:12:07 taylanub: why do they strike the tees? 20:12:26 i dont really have strong opinions about dialects of lisp, i just keep mostly messing with Common Lisp cause well it works for me 20:12:26 oh there's a better one: muvaffakiyetsizletiriciletiriveremeyebileceklerimizdenmisinizcesine 20:12:29 By far the best resource I've found with at least some of the dialects. I found it invaluable as I was messing with elisp last night 20:12:33 valid word, no shit 20:12:48 pjb: strike the tees ? 20:13:10 Yes, since they don't dot their ayes. i ->  ; t -> ? 20:13:26 the dotted i is there too 20:13:36 :-) 20:13:52 taylanub in German there is: Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän 20:13:55 I => ,  => i (uppercase => lowercase) 20:14:34 alama [~alama@a79-169-94-247.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:14:34 Well, molecules have longer names. 20:14:49 (i should note that the second long Turkish word i posted has a Turkishified Arabic word as its root) 20:15:03 Xach: the abcl people prefer just adding the keyword arg 20:15:10 I have the patch at hand, committing soon 20:15:10 (but that's just "muvaffak" anyway) 20:15:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:16:27 V-ille: thanks 20:16:44 is clojure a clozure implementation ? 20:16:56 taylanub: no. 20:17:28 taylanub: new lanuage, built on top of the JVM. There's an interesting webcast the author of the language did discussing concurrency and all. 20:17:57 taylanub: i get a kick out of the fact he wanted to try to get rid of parens and still make it lisp-like...his solution was to add [ ], which personally I find more confusing than an extra set of parens. 20:18:07 oh clozure is a CL implementation. the name similarity is a coincidence i presume ? 20:18:24 yes 20:19:01 -!- jesusito [~user@110.pool85-49-242.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:19:04 dmiles_afk [dmiles@216.227.115.124] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-161-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:21:35 Ragnaroek [5b0c4030@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.64.48] has joined #lisp 20:21:52 Xach: do you run only abcl releases or do you ever play with the svn versions? 20:21:59 -!- scode_ [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:22:06 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:22:08 V-ille: i usually only use the releases 20:22:12 ok 20:22:18 we'll cut one soon, I think 20:22:32 Cool 20:22:34 Thanks! 20:23:00 Xach: I need to find a regression. After that, we can release pretty quickly. 20:23:15 Can't you just introduce one? 20:23:16 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-dvtdivxgglssbruj] has joined #lisp 20:23:16 so, mid or end next week? 20:23:21 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 *Xach* will be here all the week 20:23:35 a regression? I already did. Now I need to fix it. 20:23:49 or you meant a release? 20:24:00 ehu: Bad joke about "finding" a regression vs. fixing one. 20:24:09 ah. heheh. 20:24:11 right. 20:24:35 I'll be finding + fixing it. 20:24:38 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@gate.ipvision.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:49 current trunk is 99.9% equal to what we will release. 20:25:03 I can create the release branch, actually. 20:25:19 then backport the fix, as soon as I have it. 20:25:32 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012e96.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:23 hi 20:28:19 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.116.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:28 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:38 rootzlevel [~hpd@188-195-186-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:11 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-dvtdivxgglssbruj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:24 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-rwircmlubyrwqvhn] has joined #lisp 20:36:13 *Xach* finds bugs galore 20:37:01 /join #lojban 20:37:07 dlowe: not you, too! 20:37:29 what can I say? I like lurking 20:37:44 and prefixing irc commands with spaces :p 20:38:40 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 stipet [~user@c83-253-30-176.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:42:13 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 20:43:19 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:43:21 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@64.134.47.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:02 brodo [~brodo@p5B023CDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:20 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:48:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:26 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:30 lnostdal: Are you interested in aroxymoyxoa and symblicweb and sw-* bug reports? 20:53:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:54:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:55:50 gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:11 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host235-175-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:01 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-73-213.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:58:56 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-6-16.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:58:57 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 20:58:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-6-16.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:58:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:01:07 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-61-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:01:08 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 21:03:13 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has left #lisp 21:03:20 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-30-176.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:04:23 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:23 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:05:55 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:51 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00305e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012e96.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:34 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:11:07 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012e96.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:09 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.95] has joined #lisp 21:15:31 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:17:12 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:24 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-166184.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:20:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-169-63.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:53 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-156.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:08 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:23:57 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl12-86-63.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:25:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:26:27 does anyone know any good plugins for interfacing with google calendar,for common lisp? I'm thinking that with reminder/diary mode within emacs, and org-mode, it'd be nice to somehow synchronize deadlines generated from org-mode with google calendar, and reminder/diary mode too...and pull them off google calendar and create tasks in org-mode if they don't exist already. 21:27:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:27:05 TDT: I'm not aware of any cl library that does that 21:27:19 but I know there are people who experimented with org deadline syncing with gcal 21:27:19 TDT: I export to ical and save to a public website using tramp. 21:27:26 -!- red1ynx [~red1ynx@178.126.205.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:27:33 TDT: no middle layer required :) 21:27:33 they used the python google utilities, though 21:27:58 TDT: I poll google calendar feeds with Grout. 21:27:59 antifuchs: Hmm...would be a good place sto start, I'll google for that, thanks. 21:28:07 TDT: i don't do much with it. 21:28:38 google calendar supports the caldav protocol, so you can just use any of the numerous common lisp caldav implementations to talk to it 21:28:45 dlowe: if you use google calendar, are you able to update events? 21:28:53 it does now? that's cool. 21:29:04 it has for *years*. 21:29:08 Hmm..I didn't know that...I'll google for that too. Thanks everyone for help. 21:29:23 TDT: no, but it would have to figure out how to port it back to org-mode, and I don't trust it that much 21:30:10 (btw, my reference to numerous CL caldav libraries was tongue in cheek -- afaik there aren't actually any at all. But you could write one.) 21:30:31 foom: weird, why would everyone use the google tools (which are pretty crappy tbh) then. 21:30:36 oddness. 21:31:14 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:42 I dunno. The caldav interface works great, I used it on my iphone, until I got an android phone recently. 21:31:44 dlowe: I used to have a few python scripts that would update and pull from org-mode files., It's not bad, as long as you version control them and all. I used to do it with making "tickets" for myself rom the version control system. Would have a program called redgetcsv, which would pull from redmine, update my org file. Wrote a tiny elisp wrapper that would save the buffer, run the python script, then reload the buffer. 21:31:44 Worked...ok..kinda. 21:33:40 Well one nice thing about this conversation, since there aren't any caldav implementations, maybe I can get the first library out there :) I definitely feel it'd be valuable from my perspective. Like now. I need to check the status of a job (computational job on a cluster) in 2 days...I'd rather have it in org-mode, with a reminder in google calendar incase I somehow forget to see it in org...but rather have it in org for 21:33:40 record-keeping reasons. 21:34:05 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.236.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:25 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c4030@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.64.48] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:35:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:36:44 Xach, sure, i'm trying to get back to lisp and web and programming in general these days 21:36:48 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffecd1.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:38:42 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:40:51 i think iolib was going through some pretty heavy changes in git last time i paid attention 21:41:58 ..i'm still using an old version 21:42:22 foom: heh, I used to use the exchange interface because it works just so much better (: 21:42:47 antifuchs: really? I thought the caldav interface worked better 21:42:50 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:43:11 well, on iOS you get events synced via push, which is very nice 21:43:15 no polling and stuff 21:43:32 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:45:35 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:47:08 mperillo [~manlio@151.56.73.230] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:06 _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has joined #lisp 21:53:03 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffecd1.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:26 MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.76.157] has joined #lisp 21:53:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 21:55:21 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:32 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-164-184.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:56:41 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A52B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:18 MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.157] has joined #lisp 22:01:46 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d8531ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:45 *p_l|backup* got c2dm for that, but is thinking about writing a complete calendar-style app that would sync with Google calendar and whatevr else, because UIs in many places suck 22:03:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:04:02 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffecd1.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 22:04:11 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:23 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.9.76.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:19 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:25 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-62-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:56 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 22:08:57 -!- mpereira [~murilo@201.82.50.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:47 mpereira [~murilo@201.82.50.37] has joined #lisp 22:13:06 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:11 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:47 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 22:13:58 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-rwircmlubyrwqvhn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:26 jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-xqfqbpozglbzzypv] has joined #lisp 22:15:25 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@252.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:16:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-62-247.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:00 lnostdal: aromyxo doesn't build on sbcl due to package locks on sb-pcl::slot-info-typecheck 22:18:09 lnostdal: and as a result the other sw-* stuff doesn't build 22:18:52 Xach: have any advice on quicklisp-friendly handling of things like test code and example code? 22:19:10 I've got a bunch of images, and code that uses them, that is sort of "example" code for opticl 22:19:28 I'd like to distribute it, but not necessarily bog down the core opticl library with it 22:19:42 opticl-examples as a separate repo perhaps? 22:19:51 that would work 22:19:58 Xach, i think i've fixed that in git 22:21:01 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:48 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-166184.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:24:47 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:23 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@87.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:17 -!- gko [~gko@223-138-129-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:28:09 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023CDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:30:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:30:49 -!- misza222 [~misza@87.112.152.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:31:26 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34:44 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:25 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:05 Emacs' `hack-local-variables-confirm' pisses me off! 22:38:23 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012e96.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:11 -!- mega1 [~user@catv4E5C915D.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:40:12 every time i switch to /cxml-20101107-git/xml/sax-handler.lisp the prop-line's "Package: SAX;" causes me grief. Where does Emacs get off deciding this is an unsafe local variable? 22:40:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 22:40:41 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.222] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:40:53 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:21 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 22:41:25 Good morning everyone! 22:41:36 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:41:55 hello beach! 22:43:33 beach: 'evening 22:43:38 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 22:43:39 hey beach 22:45:01 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-20.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46:11 -!- mperillo [~manlio@151.56.73.230] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:46:23 and good night 22:46:25 Dijkstra: And I don't need to waste my time with a computer just because I am a computer scientist. (Medical researchers are not required to suffer from the diseases they investigate.) 22:47:35 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@212-198-118-66.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:17 pjb: apropos of nothing? 22:49:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:50:03 mon_key: it assumes everything is unsafe absent evidence to the contrary 22:50:15 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:50:26 mon_key: it didn't used to until the last few years, which is why those lines haven't been removed before now. :) 22:50:51 foom: `hack-local-variables-confirm' is a hack. 22:52:19 mon_key: okay? 22:53:11 MoALTz [~no@92.9.76.157] has joined #lisp 22:53:48 foom: What could possibly be unsafe about "package" as a local variable? 22:54:15 foom: Its insulting. Emacs lisp doesn't have packages! 22:54:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:33 I just told you: it assumes everything is unsafe unless it has evidence to the contrary. It assumes that someone is going to call eval on the contents of every variable. 22:55:26 tenawa [~user@adsl-75-53-123-94.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:43 foom: which eval? 22:55:54 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:02 mon_key: apropos of nothing indeed, it's just funny. 22:56:16 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:16 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:56:16 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:56:54 pjb: funny haha or funny b/c its true? 22:58:06 mon_key: emacs's eval. 22:58:27 mon_key: the idea is that a random file can declare itself lisp and cause emacs to put random values into random variables inside itself 22:58:48 even if they're buffer-local, you can mess up stuff pretty well 22:59:02 or, actually, any mode it wants 22:59:29 hm, how about overriding inferior-lisp-command to be "rm -rf /" 22:59:52 get a nice surprise when you run slime from that buffer, maybe (: 23:00:23 antifuchs: Fine but (eval (package "rm -rf /")) ...? 23:00:28 no. 23:00:52 er (eval package) 23:01:08 the package variable is safe. ok. 23:01:20 -!- rien is now known as rien|work 23:01:22 it's just that emacs by default assumes /every/ variable is unsafe. 23:02:02 antifuchs: My problem isn't with `safe-local-variable' and friends its with `hack-local-variables-confirm' 23:02:15 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-xqfqbpozglbzzypv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-13-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03:39 so why haven't you declared Package to be a safe variable yet? (: 23:03:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-180-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:59 antifuchs: the reason I had was that it wasn't easy to figure out how! 23:04:06 emacs variable names are case-sensitive; you'll need oen for "package" and one for "Package" 23:04:08 oh 23:04:11 well. heh. 23:04:12 Someone finally told me, though: (put 'test-case-name 'safe-local-variable (lambda (maybesafe) t)) 23:04:19 (to mark test-case-name as safe) 23:04:52 I use 'symbolp for those (and integerp for base/Base) 23:05:18 antifuchs: I do have some marked safe. 23:05:28 setting enable-local-variables :safe is reasonable though 23:05:32 and should probably just be the default 23:05:57 foom: I personally def. would not do that. 23:06:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/120141 is my setup. I deal with lots of source code, and that hasn't asked me in a year or so 23:06:54 fe[nl]ix pasted "safe local variables" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120142 23:07:21 mon_key: why not? I don't think I've ever wanted emacs to have a binding for a random thing someone wanted to bind. 23:07:42 none of those need to be emacs variables 23:07:48 just silently omitting them would be fine 23:07:51 mon_key: that's what I have in .emacs 23:08:00 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffecd1.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:08:37 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has joined #lisp 23:08:57 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:09:00 foom: but it allows you to pretend as if you're on a lispm! (: 23:09:12 fe[nl]ix: yes I've similiar do package on a per item basis. 23:11:35 foom: IMHO "just silently omitting them" belies the efficacy of the entire mechanism 23:12:10 there are sensible things to set there. fill-column is one of them. package is not. 23:12:11 mon_key: it still works for setting the mode...which is really all I want it to do. :) 23:14:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:31 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:15:26 antifuchs: so, "package: FOO;" is non-sensible? 23:15:34 it's useless in emacs. 23:15:35 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15:49 it may have been useful in zmacs, or in the lispworks ide or some other obscure editor 23:16:45 but slime and the lisp mode don't profit from it in any way 23:16:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.132.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18:01 I prefer to be notified if there are variables that I don't know about, and don't care whether the ones I declare are set or not. foom doesn't want to be bothered by the query. I believe both are valid choices. 23:18:12 and the mechanism allows both (: 23:18:55 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18:58 Indeed. both are valid. `hack-local-variables-confirm' isn't. (; 23:23:33 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 23:26:41 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:06 francogrex [~user@109.130.116.5] has joined #lisp 23:32:13 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:38 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35:01 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:06 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.172.182] has joined #lisp 23:36:28 rien|home [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:39:11 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:43 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:47:16 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-24-0-146-14.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:13 *p_l|backup* wishes the dwim.hu people made a *normal* static web page for the docs 23:52:50 Seconded! I don't know what the deal is with that gratuitous "dynamic" bullshit. 23:53:50 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:04 I'd simply like a working page, actually :D 23:54:25 but well, I suspect they haveenoughcontracting work to have this as verylow priority 23:55:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:14 amb007 [~a_bakic@46.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:11 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:56 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-230-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp