00:02:28 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 00:02:28 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 00:02:28 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 00:03:01 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:03:05 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:03:06 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:45 -!- maxigas`` [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:07 well, now it's running out of heap trying to compile xpath-sys. 00:09:34 Woohoo, patent examiners (well, one at least) at USPTO are using PCL to find the 'state of the art'. 00:10:13 -!- HG`` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-102-155.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:28 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:10:31 cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 00:10:53 giga: state of the art in what? programming languages? 00:11:14 gigamonkey: nice! (: 00:11:36 zfx: patent examiners are supposed to determine the newness / patent-worthiness of an invention 00:11:40 The USPTO finds state of the art now? WHOA. That's new. The insanity is resorbing? 00:12:11 antifuchs: nod, and they check for prior art, etc. 00:12:32 -!- guther_ is now known as guther 00:12:41 I'm wondering what particular thing they're searching for. 00:12:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12:56 zfx: no idea. Just got an email from a patent examiner thanking me for putting the book online. 00:12:59 maybe techniques for media streaming / id3 tag reading (-: 00:13:18 gigamonkey: twice cool! 00:13:25 zfx: me too. I emailed back asking if she could give me any details. 00:13:34 giga: wouldn't it be ironic if they discovered that the state of the art had been established in 1994... 00:14:07 zfx: by "ironic" you mean "expected", right? ;-) 00:14:22 giga: perhaps not for the researcher in question. :) 00:14:53 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.157.72] has joined #lisp 00:16:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:49 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:08 -!- alama [~alama@a79-169-84-216.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 00:18:04 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-162-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:32 (Hum. Of course my previous comment was alluding to the wads of crazy obvious should-never-have-been-patentable patents in the last years.) 00:18:48 itym last decade (: 00:19:28 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:07 Well, I intended for these ranges to overlap, but yes. Anyway, basically anything since 2000 will always sound to me as if they're "in the last years". 00:21:29 oh, I actually meant to say "decades" 00:22:26 Ah, sure, it seems most important CS concepts have been thought of in the 60's or well before even. 00:23:12 Oops, we were talking about patents, yes. :/ 00:23:14 and they got patented in the 80s and 90s. read through the history of patents some day. there were some very whacky ones back when you couldn't get exclusivity on numbers. 00:23:33 but you could on, e.g. electronic circuits 00:23:55 there is a bell patent for the unix file permission model based on a (completely useless) circuit. 00:24:10 Hexstream: I don't there there were a *lot* of CS concepts that were thought of "well before" the 60s. 00:24:26 Yeah. "A machine and method for... [software description]" 00:25:39 gigamonkey: I meant that most have been thought of in the ~60's, and some were thought of "well" before that too (30 years would be "well" before, in a relative sense). 00:26:20 Hexstream: I certainly agree that by the end of the 60s, lots of good stuff had been thought of. 00:26:27 come on. Church thought of lambda, and then there was nothing left to discover, right? :p 00:29:00 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:10 only things like memory management and trivialities like that 00:29:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:30 I have to say, speaking of picking up, or not, old ideas, Python really missed tho boat on object initialization despite having taken the C3 method resolution order from Dylan. 00:30:32 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 00:30:53 Hexstream: "last years" surely meant "last 40 years" ? :) 00:31:39 p_l|backup: "last years" was about the insane patents (and I was wrong, apparently it's been like this for a long while) 00:31:55 also, the first Universal Turing Machine was designed in 19th century, included microced CISC cpu 00:32:08 *microcoded 00:32:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:23 p_l|backup: That was the "or well before" part ;P 00:34:21 I'm surprised at the lack of libraries for processing of declarations. There's just parse-declarations?... I can't bring myself to believe you guys would do this by hand, so there must be something I'm missing. 00:34:50 Hexstream: what do you mean by "processing of declarations"? 00:35:12 pjb: Parsing, extracting, building, normalizing... 00:35:38 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.147.92] has joined #lisp 00:35:52 I'm aware of PARSE-BODY, but that does only a small part of the job, separating declarations from the body and maybe a docstring too. 00:36:02 For parsing anx extracting you can use com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form. 00:36:23 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:25 Building, it's trivial `(declare ,declarations) what more do you want? 00:36:36 So remains normalizing. 00:37:18 The point is that few are the macros that take care of declarations. Normalizing is rarely thought about. 00:38:17 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-109-64-207-180.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:26 I agree that normalizing is rarely thought about. But I think it may be an oversight. 00:38:45 Hexstream: it seems to me that Lisp usage has increased exponentially. There are probably more lisp programmers today than in the whole history of lisp. 00:39:13 What's more, once CL had been standardized, the AI winter froze everything. 00:39:17 However, since I started caring about correct handling of declarations, it seems that many macros actually need proper handling of declarations... Or maybe it's because of the types of macros I'm writing lately. 00:39:57 Indeed. It's overlooked usually. But this definitely needs to be handled for industrial strong macros. 00:40:46 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:14 what kind of declaration? DECLARE ones? 00:41:17 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.80] has joined #lisp 00:41:18 Yeah. 00:41:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.211.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:41:55 They're more than 10x more tricky than I would have thought at first. 00:42:10 Which is why nobody cared so far :-) 00:42:24 "An implementation is free to support other (implementation-defined) declaration identifiers as well." <--- this might have had some impact as well 00:42:33 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:48 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.183.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:20 milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-127-190.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:18 What impact, specifically? That the problem is less well-defined (more open-ended) so it's less tempting to try to solve it "once and for all", or that any solution would have to be extensible in a sensible way to accommodate these implementation-defined declaration identifiers, or something else?.. 00:45:21 both of those. Though I'll admit that a library that exported a portable interface between various low-level declaration expressions on several lisps might be interesting, assuming said lisps had useful-enough ones 00:47:27 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:31 Notice also that declarations can be used specified. Eg. I specify a declaration that I use to indicate what dependencies a file may have. 00:48:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:29 Of course, you mostly can just ignore those declarations, or provide a way to declare special semantics such as cummulation, concatenation, replacement, etc. 00:48:57 That would be for a 2.0 ;) 00:49:41 The point is that if you meet an unknown declaration you need to process it in a neutral way. Eg. just keep and transmit it as is. 00:49:54 If there's even enough of a use for that. I haven't really heard of "this-will-change-your-life" implementation-specific or "user-specific" declarations. 00:50:10 I have to say, speaking of picking up, or not, old ideas, Python really missed tho boat on object initialization despite having taken the C3 method resolution order from Dylan. <-- python as in python.org, not the cmucl/sbcl compiler? 00:50:28 and if so, what did they miss exatly? 00:51:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:48 pjb: Yes. I have a few ideas for my own declarations processing library (started a few minutes ago), and one of the ideas is that it should be very highly conservative by default, preserving as much as possible of the original form of declarations. With the option of easily customizable advanced normalization. 00:52:06 mathrick: python.org 00:53:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:17 -!- Kenjin_ [~josesanto@2.80.250.41] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:55:22 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:16 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:06 QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has joined #lisp 01:00:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:21 Basically, there's a continuum. At one end, you have the minimal amount of processing necessary to achieve the semantics you want, giving declarations that will make the expansion have the most obvious mapping from declarations supplied to the macro to the ones in the expansion, at the cost of being "messy" and inconsistent in presentation. 01:00:47 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 01:02:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:03 At the other end, you have a very highly normalized, sanitized and consistent form, but that doesn't map quite as well from the provided declarations to their representation in the expansion. And you should be able to easily choose any point in that continuum as appropriate, according to preferences and if you're trying to debug or not. 01:02:16 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:19 (Apologies if I'm boring anyone ;P) 01:02:25 anyone have problems with 1.0.44+ sbcl with slime on debian? It keeps complaining about sb-posix 01:03:11 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:03:50 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:14 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 01:05:49 Intensity [pREihOKzjN@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 01:06:24 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:45 QinGW1 [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has joined #lisp 01:07:50 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 01:08:03 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.99.84] has joined #lisp 01:09:00 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-197.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 01:09:00 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:01 fisxoj: constants.lisp-temp problems? 01:12:51 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-127-190.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:16:05 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 01:16:17 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.180.149.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: )))))))))))))))))) ;)] 01:18:17 http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2011-February/012567.html <---- o_O 01:20:02 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:03 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:21:53 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:11 O_O would also be appropriate. 01:22:45 RaceCondition_ [~erik@82.131.19.252.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 01:22:47 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.19.252.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:47 -!- RaceCondition_ is now known as RaceCondition 01:22:59 O_O is just shock. o_O is shock causing desynchronisation 01:27:08 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:27:53 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:59 milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:48 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:35 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:59 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:42:48 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:46:55 -!- rien_ is now known as rien 01:47:00 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:36 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:36 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:37 rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:05 lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:32 r1nu_ [~0x80@ppp-94-67-158-98.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 01:51:56 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:00 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:49 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:09 -!- r1nu- [~0x80@unaffiliated/r1nu-] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:27 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h134n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:56:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@174.59.223.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:55 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 02:08:22 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:12:09 ltriant [~ltriant@203-214-47-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:13:03 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 02:13:53 Phillip [~Phillip@c-174-53-229-4.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:18 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.19.252.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 02:14:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:01 -!- noggler [~jarrod@69.59.130.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:13 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:19:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:38 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:19:39 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:27:47 pers [~user@126.sub-69-98-102.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:31:53 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:49 pnq [~nick@172.162.154.7] has joined #lisp 02:34:46 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:34 cindy_07747 [~chatzilla@pool-71-127-243-146.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:31 Good evening all. I feel the east coast evening is the slowest time of #lisp. Sigh. 02:38:49 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:53 -!- cindy_07747 is now known as n2kra 02:39:17 good evening:D 02:40:47 I just installed hunchentoot and cl-who but if I ,restart-inferior-lisp they go away. I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but I can't find the answer. 02:41:01 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has joined #lisp 02:41:34 rien: i can help. are you trying to start a new web project? 02:41:35 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:41:52 pers: yes. 02:42:17 Can you sucessfully 'require' hunchentoot and cl-who? 02:42:20 pers: I can run the hunchentoot test page fine and everything works 02:42:21 yep 02:42:29 I'm trying with my own package now 02:42:44 Ok. You need to write an 'asdf' file for your project. 02:42:54 pers: let me pastie what I have so far 02:43:06 k 02:43:31 lisppaste is preferred 02:44:10 pers: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119942 02:46:07 pers: I must be missing something because in emacs+slime I can C-c C-l that file without any errors, but at the prompt it only autocompletes until cma-site: but not beyond (to start-server) :/ 02:46:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:46:59 What about with C-c C-k? 02:47:29 that only compiles one function, right? 02:47:40 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:47:55 What does C-h k C-c C-k tell you? 02:48:03 plus I'd rather not compile things now, I'm sure it'll bring me trouble when I later change the function and don't see the changes take effect 02:48:08 slime-compile-and-load-function 02:48:24 sorry, -file, you're right 02:48:38 <|3b|> it might autocomplete better if you export it from the package, or try to complete cam-site:: 02:48:43 What lisp are you using? 02:48:43 I wrote it incorrectly on my cheat sheet :) 02:48:49 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-226-239-19.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 02:49:01 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:14 pers: ccl 02:49:24 |3b|: indeed. it seems to be working now with double-colon 02:49:33 The code works fine for me. I did uncomment out the asdf load and add in one for cl-who. 02:50:13 ahh. (in-package :cma-site) 02:50:22 oh one for cl-who too, got it. are those two asdf:load-op's in the right place? (between the in-package :cl-user) and the (defpackage... ? 02:50:48 for a start, but eventually you make a seperate asdf file to handle this. 02:50:49 <|3b|> no, you should write a .asd file to load dependencies rather than putting calls to asdf in the source 02:51:24 |3b|: ok, I will do that. I haven't got so far as to know about that yet. 02:51:42 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-248-233-98.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: co'o] 02:51:44 I'm reading different sources, ranging from PCL to hunchentoot tutorials to Lisp Style & Design (!) :) 02:52:11 <|3b|> also, you shouldn't SETQ undefined variables 02:52:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:52:30 pers: when you say working fine, how did you start it at the prompt? (cma-site:start-server) ? I'd like to use : instead of :: 02:52:32 <|3b|> actually, never mind, i guess that is from hinchentoot 02:52:42 (because lisp style & design says I shouldn't use ::) 02:53:11 <|3b|> :: is for unexported symbols, export the symbol from the package to use : 02:53:21 <|3b|> add (export :start-server) to the defpackage form 02:53:26 |3b|: that's how they do it in the tutorials. being I newbie I actually find it weird that they use setq at all, instead of setf 02:53:32 <|3b|> (:export ...) i mean 02:53:39 vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.58.119.13.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:53:42 rien: you can add and :export clause to your defpackage. Also when developing you generally want to be 'in-package' the one you are working with and then it would just be (start-server). 02:53:48 |3b|: can I export all the symbols from my package at once? 02:53:56 <|3b|> yeah, i just missed that it was an imported variable from another package 02:54:08 <|3b|> and SETF would work there as well 02:54:46 rien, you should use 'defparameter' instead of setq. 02:54:58 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:55:15 *rien* makes the recommended changes 02:55:42 <|3b|> you can export as many symbols as you want in defpackage, but there is no automatic option to export everything in a package (and you don't want it anyway, since it would export local variable names, stuff imported from other packages, etc) 02:56:05 <|3b|> pers: it is already defined, hunchentoot:*dispatch-table* so SETQ/SETF is OK there 02:56:22 right, right. great then. it works now and I can use single-colon again. thanks. I have two more questions. 02:57:00 gozoner [~ebg@ip98-185-222-190.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:08 I can't really start the server again because hunchentoot's listener is up and I haven't found anywhere how to shut it down short of ,restart-inferior-lisp 02:57:43 <|3b|> save the value of make-instance 'acceptor, i suspect there is a corresponsing STOP to go with START 02:58:07 <|3b|> (or maybe save the return of START, would have to check docs to see which for sure) 02:59:01 ok. and the other question is a more pressing one 02:59:17 I'll have to restart this anyway to be able to start over with saving the value of make-instance and whatnot 02:59:25 and by restarting I'll lose hunchentoot and cl-who 02:59:34 and I'll have to install them again. how do I make them permanently installed? 02:59:49 <|3b|> they are permanently installed, just not laded by default 02:59:55 <|3b|> *loaded 03:00:29 <|3b|> which is what your asdf calls are doing, or specifying dependencies in a .asd file would let happen automatically when you loaded your project 03:00:47 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@78-1-178-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:17 |3b|: I thought they were gone because it was complaining it couldn't find those packages. I really need to learn how to do that .asd thing. 03:03:34 <|3b|> right, 'package' is a runtime concept... it is just a mapping of strings to symbols, something like what other languages call a 'namespace'. it has nothing to do with files, or groups of files on the disk (aside from usually being created when you load the files) 03:04:49 <|3b|> CL terms for groups of files to be loaded for a specific project are 'module' which is what REQUIRE operates on (but REQUIRE isn't really specified well enough to be generally useful), and 'systems' which is what asdf manages 03:05:05 madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:16 <|3b|> so you install a system, either by hand or with quickload or whatever, then use asdf to load it into a running lisp, at which point it probably creates various packages 03:06:51 but then after restarting, I do (require 'asdf) and then (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :hunchentoot) and it says 'component "hunchentoot" not found' 03:07:19 <|3b|> ok, in that case something is broken in your setup, how do you install hunchentoot? 03:07:28 -!- pers [~user@126.sub-69-98-102.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:07:58 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 03:08:15 -!- madsenz1 [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08:18 |3b|: I do these exactly: (require 'asdf) (require 'asdf-install) (setq asdf-install:*verify-gpg-signatures* nil) (asdf-install:install 'hunchentoot) 03:08:27 in slime, one by one 03:09:04 <|3b|> hmm, that should have put it somewhere plain asdf can see, since asdf-install uses asdf to load things 03:09:30 <|3b|> you should probably use quicklisp instead of asdf-install though 03:09:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:51 |3b|: but I'm so close to have everything working that I set up myself :) 03:11:00 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:03 it was a rough road but I did it, I just need packages to stay put and I'll be set! 03:11:11 it's a hard problem to google, though 03:11:16 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:35 -!- madsenz [~madsenz@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:04 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:12:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:12:51 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:03 |3b|: actually I forgot to tell you one step 03:13:05 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:13:19 *|3b|* would suggest quicklisp anyway, not that i'd be able to help debug that any better than asdf-install :p 03:13:25 |3b|: I always have to do (pushnew #p"/Users/user1/.ccl/" asdf:*central-registry*) 03:13:36 that could be the key 03:13:43 I did it now but still can't load hunchentoot 03:13:44 <|3b|> ah, doing that should fix the plain asdf version too 03:14:28 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:14:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:11 *|3b|* is going afk for a while though, but not sure what else to try if that doesn't help anyway 03:15:48 ok, thanks a lot anyway :) 03:16:02 I think I just have to find out the right full path to pushnew into *central-registry* 03:16:33 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:27 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-214-47-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:50 Got it!! 03:18:22 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has joined #lisp 03:18:45 I peeked at the install dump from last time and saw it installed to /Users/user1/.asdf-install-dir/systems/ <-- so I just pushnew'ed that to *central-registry and now I can load it fine with asdf. again, thanks! 03:19:05 -!- azaq231 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:28 ltriant [~ltriant@203-214-47-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:19:55 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:24 now on to finding out how to not have to pushnew that thing every time I restart-inferior-lisp :P 03:22:23 Put it in your lisp init file? 03:23:14 my lisp init file... so does each implementation have its own? I have both sbcl and ccl installed, using ccl only now. 03:23:32 Yes, pretty much. 03:23:47 ok I'll find out which file it is for ccl 03:24:04 it's ~/ccl-init.lisp 03:24:40 yep just found out too :) from an irc #lisp log 03:24:54 weird that that's not a dotfile 03:25:30 on unix, ~/.ccl-init.lisp works too, if ccl-init.lisp offends you. 03:25:50 I'll try it with the dot. 03:26:05 ccl runs on non-unix platforms. 03:26:09 oh, rme is here. heh 03:26:31 oh he uses non-unix? 03:26:41 i don't know 03:26:49 but he is involved with clozure cl. 03:28:31 that's awesome. 03:32:07 What should be the value of: (loop for (i) on '(1 2 3) initially (format t "<<~S>>" i))? 03:32:17 -!- Guest63936 [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:20 Er, output, not value. 03:32:32 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:32:34 Should it print <> or <<1>>? 03:32:48 sbcl outputs <> 03:33:14 so does ccl 03:34:06 That doesn't make it right. That just makes them consistent. :-) But I tend to agree with that. 03:34:23 I'd read the loop to print the value of i before it's bound to 1. 03:34:39 but i'm no loop wizard. 03:34:51 Neither am I. 03:36:24 it's unclear to me how the parens around the i interract. 03:36:33 without them you get <<(1 2 3)>> 03:36:57 I think it's destructuring. 03:37:00 yeah 03:37:35 But change the loop to loop for i in '(1 2 3), then. I think it should still print <>. 03:37:55 yep 03:38:37 cheezus [~Adium@75-119-248-180.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:40 i guess expand the loop and see how it looks. 03:38:50 can anyone give me a hand at importing hunchentoot qualified as ht so that all of its functions are only available through ht:functioname and not on the toplevel? here's what I have so far: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119943 03:39:01 Well, yeah, I'm trying to fix a loop issue in cmucl. 03:40:49 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 03:41:41 -!- pabst [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has left #lisp 03:42:13 do you want to see how ccl expands it? 03:44:36 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:45:03 No, thanks. I have ccl here so I can do it myself. clisp also returns <>, I think. 03:45:37 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-23-137-233.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:46:16 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:21 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.86] has joined #lisp 03:46:59 sbcl has a tighter expansion. 03:47:29 Can you paste that? 03:48:14 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:48:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/119944 03:49:27 clisp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119944#1 03:50:37 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has joined #lisp 03:50:41 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.82] has quit [Changing host] 03:50:41 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:51:22 langerd [~obsidian@bas4-ottawa10-1176114590.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:51:41 Actually, cmucl prints out <> in this case. The expansion is basically identical to sbcl, which is not too surprising. 03:52:04 But what happens when you replace '(1 2 3) with nil? 03:52:12 cmucl fails to print anything. 03:53:03 sbcl and clisp both print <> still 03:53:30 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:53:41 I think that's right. 03:57:00 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-119-248-180.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:59:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:00 (package-nicknames :hunchentoot) tells me I can use tbnl:start for instance, for qualified names. how do I only allow qualified names? I don't want any of hunchentoot's functions to be available unqualified 04:00:45 -!- n2kra [~chatzilla@pool-71-127-243-146.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:00:49 -!- langerd [~obsidian@bas4-ottawa10-1176114590.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 04:02:59 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:04:32 -!- rme [rme@clozure-2206CB1B.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 04:05:01 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:05:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:12:05 rien: What exactly are you trying to do? 04:12:28 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:23 rtoym: I'd like to not be able to use e.g. start except through tbnl:start or hunchentoot:start or even better, though an arbitraty qualifier I define. but it's not just for "start" (I don't mean shadowing), it's for the entire package. 04:14:47 like in Haskell I can do "import qualified Data.List as L" and then use L.zip etc 04:15:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 04:15:59 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:42 You can't use unqualified names for symbols by default, unless you imported them into your current package (or something else did so for you) 04:16:53 But you also can't really do like haskell, package names are global, not local 04:17:01 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:54 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.63.124] has joined #lisp 04:18:57 rien: you can use rename-package to add a new nickname to a package, but it's usage is tricky. 04:19:19 Hi [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:30 (you have to rename the package to a temporary name first, and of course, you must ensure the new nickname doesn't already name another package). 04:19:41 pjb: ok, at least it's a new direction for me to search. I've been trying to find out how to say "shadowing-import-from 'all' " 04:19:46 -!- Hi is now known as Guest46429 04:19:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:14 pjb: but see, I don't even know how to *only* use hunchentoot:blah or tbnl:blah (and not allow just blah) 04:20:18 that's the main point 04:20:30 rien: that's the default behavior 04:20:35 rien: My advice would be to either design package with a small number of exported symbols that you can use in whole, or just qualify the symbols. 04:20:40 rien: you don't get the symbols imported unless you ask for them.. 04:21:00 foom: can you check out what I'm overdoing then? http://paste.lisp.org/display/119943 04:21:01 rien: you can also import a single symbol (import 'tbnl:blah) 04:21:17 don't put it in :use 04:21:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:48 put it in what? :import ? or nowhere? 04:21:53 What problem do you have with that paste? 04:22:06 nowhere 04:22:34 after the asdf load, the code is loaded into its own package 04:22:35 *rien* tries 04:22:40 (:use :cl :cl-who) 04:22:42 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:56 you don't need to mention it in your defpackage at all unless you want the symbols imported. 04:24:48 that works beautifully. now I'm forced to give the qualifier. those will be my training wheels, otherwise I won't know what functions are provided by whom. thanks :) 04:28:12 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:28:31 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:11 -!- rien is now known as rien|sleeping 04:32:20 -!- rien|sleeping [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: meh] 04:33:32 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:33:59 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:03 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:06 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:41 M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.237.31.69] has joined #lisp 04:36:05 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:46 evening 04:41:10 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:43 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:40 -!- Guest46429 [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:44:19 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:49:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:11 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:44 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ftxddbeobhlkutny] has joined #lisp 04:52:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:53:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:35 Any slime folks around? 04:59:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:25 I'm a slime newbie *raises hand* 04:59:46 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip98-185-222-190.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:00:38 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:54 Oh, I was looking for someone who knows slime internals/implementation. 05:04:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:06:07 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-194-152.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:06:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:06:41 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.58.119.13.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:07:29 Hi [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:55 -!- Hi is now known as Guest60267 05:08:09 -!- Guest60267 [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has left #lisp 05:25:53 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:59 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:27:26 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 05:31:01 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:38 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.157.72] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 05:38:31 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:28 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:44:44 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:48:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:51:21 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52:13 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:12 beach: around? 05:55:28 nostoi [~nostoi@235.Red-79-147-213.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:31 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:59:51 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-170990.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:02:01 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:04:18 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:23 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 06:06:00 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:11:10 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@235.Red-79-147-213.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:12:14 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:12:35 slyrus: I am, yes. 06:13:00 HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:13:29 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:15:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:27 kanru` [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:54 hey beach, just wanted to let you know that I think I fixed the affine transformation bugs I was having trouble with 06:19:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:20:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:27 slyrus: Excellent! So what can you do know? Rotation, translation, scaling? 06:21:40 and skeq 06:21:42 skew 06:22:08 Right, OK. 06:22:45 actually, I still need to add the more user-friendly versions that just do one of those at a time, but the core transform-image routine (that takes a 3x3 transform) now works properly 06:23:20 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has joined #lisp 06:23:23 along with the new :transform-bounds arg that makes the destination image be bounded by the transformed coordinates 06:23:37 slyrus: And what method do you use when a target pixel is in between source pixels? 06:23:40 or, without that, defaults to keeping the view the same 06:24:03 you mean what kind of interpolation do i do? 06:24:20 Yes, I guess that's the term. 06:24:24 -!- kanru` [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 06:24:45 -!- 45PABT3K9 is now known as pattern 06:24:59 :nearest-neighbor and :bilinear both work now 06:25:12 :quadratic is still busted, I think 06:25:27 And the theoretically correct one is some gaussian distribution? 06:26:38 it is? Ok, I'll take your word for it 06:27:31 depends on how you view the problem. If you ask which rotated pixels end up under the new pixel grid, its a simple linear combination... 06:28:56 I believe gaussian is correct for downsampling. 06:29:22 When mixing pixels, there are also issues of color gamut. But that's for somebody else to worry about. 06:29:51 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:30:39 slyrus: I look forward to opticl. Need to find some time in the coming months to try it out. 06:31:57 cool! 06:35:27 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 06:36:03 HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:37:50 -!- Phillip [~Phillip@c-174-53-229-4.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:40:22 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 06:43:12 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:44:35 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 06:44:44 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:45:08 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:46:06 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Client Quit] 06:46:30 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 06:48:40 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:53:34 tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.13.107] has joined #lisp 06:54:48 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@207.195.119.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:06 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:53 mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-llumjwxsqyyfvuyy] has joined #lisp 06:57:53 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:03:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:19 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.237.228] has joined #lisp 07:06:21 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-amvaphaaxzlqvhoy] has joined #lisp 07:09:42 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.13.107] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 07:11:58 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 07:12:09 when I save an executable core image in sbcl linux x64, what compatibility expectations are there for running that executable elsewhere? 07:12:30 *Phoodus* isn't too knowledgeable about such general Linux issues, only that it didn't work the one time we tested it a while ago on a different linux install 07:12:42 it probably wouldn't run on 32-bit Windows 07:13:30 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:13:45 vmware can help with that ;) 07:14:20 but what sort of things should be paid attention to, kernel versions, libc versions? 07:14:42 I don't know how much is statically compiled into the sbcl core, I guess 07:14:52 rootlocus [~rootlocus@r125-63-190-43.cpe.unwired.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:15:21 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:16:23 Phoodus: no libraries are linked statically, and sbcl requires exactly the shared libraries that the sbcl executable is linked against 07:16:36 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-059-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:13 Phoodus: I think it will run on amd64 linuxes that have been installed/updated within the last 5 or 6 years. 07:18:18 hmm, I'll have to ask which box our smoke test was run on then 07:18:33 iirc, it was some sort of low-level exception, looked like memory corruption or something of the like 07:21:26 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:21:27 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:21:27 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:22:00 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:06 -!- _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:25:09 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:11 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:01 Liera [~Liera@113.172.62.241] has joined #lisp 07:30:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:31:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:51 Davsebamse [~das@94.127.50.104] has joined #lisp 07:34:36 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:37:04 good morning 07:37:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:41:35 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@r125-63-190-43.cpe.unwired.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:45 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B327B05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:10 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: noswaith dda] 07:42:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 07:43:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:43 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 07:44:45 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B3265E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:45:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:46:11 -!- Davsebamse [~das@94.127.50.104] has left #lisp 07:48:43 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:50:10 good morning 07:55:50 hello mvilleneuve, hello frodef 08:00:31 -!- whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-157-162.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:35 hello beach 08:01:51 whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-157-162.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:00 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.154.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:03:42 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 08:05:09 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-197.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:08:28 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-226-239-19.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:11:05 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 08:12:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:16:02 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-towkresjoxhsdkrr] has joined #lisp 08:16:55 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:18:06 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:20 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 08:20:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20:48 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:21:01 -!- Intensity [pREihOKzjN@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Intensity] 08:23:21 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:57 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:34 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:16 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-49-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:58 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:36:09 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:36:10 keltus [~el@about/cooking/nakedchef/beefstew/Keltus] has joined #lisp 08:36:51 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-39-140.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:51 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:38:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:56 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:41:21 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-059-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:42:13 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:45:48 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:36 Intensity [JQL0yWhxgb@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 08:51:12 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:51:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:34 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:05 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:46 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.41] has joined #lisp 09:06:46 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:22 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:33 gko` [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:46 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.237.31.69] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 09:12:59 _mike_zxy [~zxy@114.255.41.197] has joined #lisp 09:13:46 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9E18A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:58 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:17 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:17:27 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9EFC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:19:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:03 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:24 ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has joined #lisp 09:19:40 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:19:59 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:21:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22:06 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:24:04 Blkt [~user@93-33-133-150.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:27:24 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:31:58 chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:11 ilmari_ [ilmari@knuth.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:36:12 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:37:01 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:37:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:40 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:11 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:41:12 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:53 -!- drewc` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:59 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:20 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:31 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:11 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:55 -!- _mike_zxy [~zxy@114.255.41.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:29 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:46 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:46:00 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 09:46:01 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:52 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 09:47:03 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:47:13 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-133-150.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:31 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:51:54 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 09:52:43 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:52:58 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:53 rtoym: you mentioned something about efforts toward greater use of hierarchical packages thwarted by some people wanting to implement it "like Symbolics" or something like that? 09:55:49 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:51 shyfx [~shyfx@120.158.252.25] has joined #lisp 09:57:40 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:58:03 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:17 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.41] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:58:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:59:25 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.231.73] has joined #lisp 09:59:30 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:00:23 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:01:43 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:17 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:03:44 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-218-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:13 ASau [~user@93-80-218-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:05:45 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:07:51 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-189.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:04 -!- ilmari_ is now known as ilmari 10:08:20 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:08:37 m1ngus [~nmajo@mi061032.klientdrift.uib.no] has joined #lisp 10:10:28 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:34 DukePatience [~LordPatie@CPE-121-216-29-116.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:11:06 -!- QinGW1 [~wangqingw@60.247.26.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:11:24 Has anyone here ever gotten cells-gtk to work? 10:11:53 i've heard Kenny Tilton has 10:12:03 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.231.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:12:08 ?? 10:12:54 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:57 lol 10:13:07 oh, right, he's not here. sorry for the heads up. 10:13:08 DukePatience: use ramarren's repo on github 10:13:16 I'm so pissy with the gui lib documentation 10:13:35 well, at least ramarren's compiles 10:13:42 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:27 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:14:38 I'm cool with compiling stuff myself. Just when I find myself pouring through source code that I barely understand is what makes me sad. 10:15:15 DukePatience: abandon all hope, ye who reads cells code 10:16:11 Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:16:23 p_l|backup: I wish it weren't legitimately like that. 10:16:47 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17:40 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.231.73] has joined #lisp 10:17:44 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.231.73] has quit [Client Quit] 10:18:05 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:19:03 _danb_ [~user@124-168-189-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:22:30 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:22:48 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:23:49 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.225] has joined #lisp 10:23:52 -!- ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:06 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:24:22 Blkt [~user@93-33-138-75.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:24:25 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:24:51 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.231.73] has joined #lisp 10:25:33 good day everyone 10:26:49 Liera_ [~Liera@113.172.60.22] has joined #lisp 10:27:05 Evening 10:27:09 -!- shyfx [~shyfx@120.158.252.25] has quit [] 10:29:23 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.62.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:30:20 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:33:04 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:33:30 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.231.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:33:35 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:41 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:36:36 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-8b92e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:39:59 Liera__ [~Liera@113.172.38.150] has joined #lisp 10:41:31 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:05 -!- Liera_ [~Liera@113.172.60.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:43:11 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43:58 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 10:44:13 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:10 -!- Liera__ is now known as Liera 10:45:36 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:46:24 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:46:27 Good evening everyone! 10:47:01 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:47:58 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:48:46 Liera_ [~Liera@113.172.71.245] has joined #lisp 10:49:22 Phoodus: regarding saved SBCL image - modern glibc and ABI-compatible shared libs for the ffi 10:51:02 -!- Liera [~Liera@113.172.38.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:42 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:53:20 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 10:53:30 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-173-12.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:57 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-215-231.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:00:52 hi beach 11:03:24 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:18 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 11:05:35 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:05 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:06:43 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 11:08:25 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:09:13 r1nu__ [~0x80@ppp-94-67-128-224.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:09:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:09:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:09:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:10:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:10:48 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 11:12:17 -!- r1nu_ [~0x80@ppp-94-67-158-98.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:16:25 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:17:38 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:01 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:04 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-169740.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:20:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:00 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:25:28 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 11:29:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:29:39 RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.19.252.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:29:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has joined #lisp 11:31:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:13 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:26 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 11:39:34 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:38 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:43:00 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.128] has joined #lisp 11:43:15 zomgbie [~jesus@84-119-93-87.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:45:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:47:53 urandom__ [~user@p548A4B15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:23 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:35 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:50:08 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84-119-93-87.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:50:30 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:24 -!- m1ngus [~nmajo@mi061032.klientdrift.uib.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:52:40 zomgbie [~jesus@84-119-93-87.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:53:12 I can never remember in what ways ~:[ takes its arguments 11:53:31 Do you happen to have any mnemonic? 11:53:53 m1ngus [~Adium@tunnel-32-19.vpn.uib.no] has joined #lisp 11:54:27 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:54:42 clhs ~[ 11:54:42 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-223-105-71.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:48 Help me with some estimates here: How much display-server-to-client traffic does it generate (in Bytes/s) to track the pointer? 11:55:43 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-223-105-71.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:44 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-64-223-105-71.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:46 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 11:57:47 -!- r1nu__ is now known as r1nu- 11:57:56 -!- r1nu- [~0x80@ppp-94-67-128-224.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 11:57:56 r1nu- [~0x80@unaffiliated/r1nu-] has joined #lisp 11:58:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:47 tcr: imagine that it's like IF, but backwards: (if condition consequent alternative) and here it's "~:[alternative~;consequent~]" condition 11:58:53 beach: 10 Hz × 20 bytes? 11:59:05 beach: (I have no idea, basically..) 11:59:46 frodef: I was going to say 10Hz x 50 bytes, but same order of magnitude. Isn't an X11 event more than 20 bytes? 12:00:29 beach: probably, I didn't think X11 specifically. 12:00:51 Yuuhi [benni@p54839D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:06 Sure, I just meant there might be display servers that have significantly more than 20 bytes. 12:01:24 But still, we agree that it's < 1kB/s 12:01:51 yes.. should be insignificant for most things, it seems. 12:02:00 I thought so. 12:02:26 round-trip-time is probably more of a potential problem? 12:02:32 So there is no particular reason anymore for a GUI toolkit to avoid tracking the pointer all the time. 12:03:01 frodef: because of latency? 12:03:35 beach: yes.. how do you mean "avoid tracking"? Sending events even when it doesn't move? 12:03:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:30 frodef: No, I meant creating windows that do not send events when the pointer moves. 12:05:16 frodef: So in the context of X11, I could safely always stick pointer-motion in the event mask. 12:06:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:06:38 In fact, I could stick all the event types in the event mask and just not handle them in the client. 12:08:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:48 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:11:12 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.201] has quit [Quit: Offline] 12:14:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:37 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:16:00 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84-119-93-87.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:51 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:02 -!- chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21:02 xan_ [~xan@167.Red-79-158-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:48 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:51 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:15 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-223-162.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:26:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:26:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:29:01 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:59 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-189-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:31:34 chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:41 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:31:53 ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has joined #lisp 12:32:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:24 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:45 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:37:08 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.157.72] has joined #lisp 12:37:26 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-8b92e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:36 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:41:13 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:41:49 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:12 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.191] has joined #lisp 12:43:29 stassats: Around? 12:43:36 yes 12:43:53 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:26 tmitt [~sgray10@lap37.nomad.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 12:47:38 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.253.157.72] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 12:48:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:34 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:48:35 Another slime issue. This particular one crashes xemacs due to a bug (I think) in xemacs. 12:48:51 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:49:52 In a file, put something like (loop for i below 5 do (print i)). Make sure that the file ends on the closing paren. Place point there and C-c C-m to macroexpand it. 12:50:13 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:19 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-131-180.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:50:51 The problem comes from (thing-at-point 'char) in slime-sexp-at-point-for-macroexpand. XEmacs returns nil, and (substring-no-properties nil) crashes xemacs. 12:52:47 should substring-no-properties not assert the type? 12:53:41 *nikodemus* reads scrollback and goes *oh* 12:53:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:53:51 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:56 Yes, it should. But then that still breaks slime. 12:54:14 slime-sexp-at-point-for-macroexpansion shouldn't be ran in this case 12:54:45 rtoym: the point should be at the very end? 12:54:48 Really? Hmm. I wonder how it gets there then. 12:54:53 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:56 Yes, at the very end. 12:54:58 *stassats* fires up xemacs to see for himself 12:55:30 crashed 12:55:41 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:43 Cool. :-( 12:56:50 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:57 -!- r1nu- [~0x80@unaffiliated/r1nu-] has left #lisp 12:57:33 Hmm... 12:57:33 sorry, i mean slime-sexp-at-point-for-macroexpansion should be run, but (substring-no-properties (thing-at-point 'char)) part shouldn't 12:57:56 slime-sexp-at-point-or-error should error 12:58:20 I can install things into ~/.sbcl/systems, but for some reason when I use (require :package) it won't load them 12:58:47 DukePatience: did you consider using quicklisp? 12:58:55 stassats: Oh, I see. 12:59:18 stassats: I've heard of it, but never looked it up. What is it? 12:59:25 rtoym: ultimately, that's because (thing-at-point 'sexp) returns 12:59:47 DukePatience: it's the answer to your question 13:00:28 stassats: Differing behavior for thing-at-point between xemacs and emacs? 13:01:09 If quicklisp works straight away, without any effort on my behalf or hours of reading through manuals, I think, I will simultaneously cheer and vomit. 13:01:15 Thanks alot. 13:01:21 rtoym: i envision the following course of action: fixing XEmacs so that (substring-no-properties not-a-string) doesn't fail and guarding it from NIL in slime 13:02:13 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:37 Yes, xemacs should not crash with (substring-no-properties nil). But what about slime-sexp-at-point-or-error? 13:02:46 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:26 i guess adding CHECK_STRING (string); would be enough 13:04:05 Probably. I'm not familiar at all with xemacs C internals. 13:05:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:05:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:11 i don't really know what to do with slime-sexp-at-point-or-error 13:07:37 -!- ohih0wru [~andrei@87.226.100.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:02 So you're saying it would be ok to signal an error from substring-no-properties instead of from slime-sexp-at-point-or-error? 13:08:35 milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:19 it sounds ok to me 13:09:20 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 13:09:41 err, i didn't read this right 13:10:09 i meant to signal an error from slime-sexp-at-point-for-macroexpansion 13:10:23 because "something is not a string" is not a helpful error 13:10:23 stassats: Marry me. 13:10:35 bbiab. 13:10:51 DukePatience: What am I, chopped liver? 13:11:40 Xach: I love you too Xach, I just love stassats more. Maybe you can help me make polygamy legal? 13:12:03 it's legal in some countries 13:12:05 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-qlyeylsasbpwmxls] has joined #lisp 13:12:24 but the concentration of smug lisp weenies would be too dangerous 13:13:20 Rawr. It says it can;t load "libgtkglext-x11-1.0.so" 13:14:23 Holy shit it worked. 13:15:00 AUUUURRRGHH! I WANT THE 15 HOURS OF MY LIFE I WASTED ON ASDF BACK!!!!1!1!1 13:15:19 DukePatience: Don't freak out. Quicklisp uses asdf. asdf-install is a fine target of distaste, though. 13:15:41 *ASDF-INSTALL 13:16:10 Agari [~Agari@185.Red-79-152-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:34 what if it prevented you from going out and being killed by a bus? you never know 13:16:40 No wonder I couldn't use any of its libraries properly. Everyones given upon it because it's antiquidated, but then didn't update any of the asdf documentation 13:17:03 *asdf-install 13:17:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:18:21 Until about 6 months ago it was probably the second-best option available. 13:18:43 stassats:I guess so... But still. I'd rather have enjoyed those hours in ,afterlife than reading through documentation and source code. 13:19:08 zomgbie [~jesus@84-119-93-87.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:19:20 Xach: out of 2? 13:19:30 :) 13:19:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ftxddbeobhlkutny] has left #lisp 13:24:53 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:25:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:25:41 Ok! Step one of plan learn Lisp GUI's achieved! 13:25:56 Step two: Find a good cell-gtk tutorial 13:28:03 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 13:28:48 http://www.mail-archive.com/cells-gtk-devel@common-lisp.net/msg00043.html 13:28:53 Oh that's bullshit. 13:30:46 DukePatience: Relax.. don't be so tense :) 13:30:47 why do you think that cells-gtk would be the best option for GUI? 13:31:22 stassats: No reason other than it seems to get high ratings on google 13:31:35 that's a bad reason 13:31:43 Google is not a good resource for that kind of thing. 13:31:53 stassats: So, is the issue with slime-sexp-at-point returns a string for xemacs in this example. 13:31:58 stassats: And I guess I sortof like aroma of gtk based software 13:32:29 What should I be doing instead do you think? 13:32:49 have you looked cl-gtk2? 13:32:52 at 13:34:30 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:35:33 I shall explore it promptly. My total experience with lisp is very very small, and I'm only just getting past the text game phase atm 13:36:12 all you need is patience, and i bet you got plenty 13:36:21 I gotta say I'm hooked though. At the very least, the propaganda is convincing 13:36:53 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:34 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@173-30-221-186.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:37:45 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 13:37:45 drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has joined #lisp 13:38:32 Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 13:38:35 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:52 -!- Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has left #lisp 13:39:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:18 myu2_ [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:40:27 Hahah... That's a brilliant idea 13:41:19 Trolling new programmers with a huge propaganda engine for something really terrible, but everyone else is in on it so they don't intervene. 13:41:44 stassats: Ah, so the issue is that (thing-at-point 'sexp) return nil for emacs, but returns the sexp for xemacs. How to reconcile this? (BTW your CHECK_STRING prevents xemacs from crashing, obviously.) 13:42:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43:12 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:43:52 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:43:53 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:44:51 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 13:44:59 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:44:59 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 13:45:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:23 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:47:26 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:39 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 13:48:14 Bugger, I wish I'd come here sooner. 13:48:28 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:29 I've learned more from two comments here than I have in the last week 13:48:47 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:03 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:50:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:21 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-79-127.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:55:33 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:56:58 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:50 pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:23 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 13:59:53 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:01:30 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.78] has joined #lisp 14:01:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.78] has quit [Changing host] 14:01:35 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:02:21 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-8b92e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:02:33 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:05:40 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:28 orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has joined #lisp 14:08:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:10:07 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:51 -!- gko` [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:56 gko` [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 -!- Agari [~Agari@185.Red-79-152-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:13:05 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:14 Agari [~Agari@185.Red-79-152-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:01 dkasak [~dkasak@78-1-178-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:15:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.191] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:18:13 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:40 *Saturnation* thinks DukePatience is on the same road as himself... 14:20:20 we have a strong oral tradition 14:20:54 -!- gko` [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 14:21:24 *Saturnation* is slowly getting a GtkDrawingArea to "work" with cl-gtk2 14:21:36 just haven't mastered how to get the GC out of the widget 14:22:14 since I'm here, might as well ask... 14:22:52 with (describe) my widget Slots with allocations. How the HELL do I get at them? :) 14:23:18 I.e. Slots with :GOBJECT-PROPERTY allocation: ... STYLE = # ... 14:23:43 Saturnation: did you post on the pro-list? (since I answered that a couple of hours ago :-) ) 14:23:52 I'd assumed it was just an accessor method, but it doesn't seem to exist :( 14:24:14 pro-list? 14:24:43 I asked a ? about drawable on cl-gtk2-devel, but this is a new "problem" 14:25:03 *Saturnation* says "problem" and means lack of understanding... 14:25:08 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.236.31] has joined #lisp 14:25:10 Must have been someone else then. 14:25:38 so, what's the pro-list? 14:25:59 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:02 Saturnation: I remember have to dig around a lot when using cl-gtk2 as well. 14:26:09 Saturnation: "an elite mailing list for the washed" 14:26:30 how do I get washed? :) 14:26:55 Saturnation: use CL a lot :) 14:27:21 I would if I were on the pro-list! :) 14:27:25 *Saturnation* doubts that will work 14:27:36 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:38 which of the opengl libraries are recommended ? 14:27:44 Saturnation: try SLOT-VALUE 14:27:44 cl-opengl 14:27:51 would it help if I said I was working on a startup with lisp? :) 14:27:53 is cl-glfw-opengl not ok too ? 14:28:11 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.191] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.236.31] has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:36 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:43 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #lisp 14:28:59 dlowe, I think I did... gobject:gobject-property-style doesn't appear to be defined :( 14:29:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:43 *Saturnation* is beginning to think that a healthy understanding of CFFI would help a lot with libraries or lack thereof 14:29:48 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-138-75.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:30:14 ; Symbol "GOBJECT-PROPERTY-STYLE" not found in the GOBJECT package. 14:30:20 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:31:15 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:32 aerique, Ah, it was you how helped me with the height and width request! :) 14:31:37 thanks 14:32:28 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:19 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:34:46 morning 14:35:31 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:35:35 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:35:40 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has joined #lisp 14:35:53 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.99.84] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.94.1] 14:37:57 -!- jamief` [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 14:38:13 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 14:42:04 -!- orivej [~orivej@rk4015.ws.pu.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:40 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:47 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:26 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.77.245] has joined #lisp 14:46:36 sellout [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:02 -!- sellout is now known as Guest10825 14:47:30 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.76.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:48:13 vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.58.119.13.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:49:03 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:58 I've gotten so used to NOT reading the documentation, that I forgot how helpful it can be on occasion 14:50:38 -!- Guest10825 [~Adium@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:10 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.230.142] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:53:12 pers [~user@235.sub-75-198-219.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:57 Shout out to all the lispers from the great city of New York... 14:54:18 easyE [vqbdFXmUcP@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:26 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 14:56:29 -!- |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 14:56:45 benny` [~benny@i577A1944.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:48 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:57:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:15 gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 14:59:44 |nix| [~|nix|@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:56 *Saturnation* feels like the cl-gtk2 tutorial should be reversed 15:00:16 -!- |nix| [~|nix|@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 15:02:13 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:04:49 confounds [~confounds@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:39 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:06:15 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 15:06:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-79-127.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:02 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 15:09:09 |nix| [~|nix|@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:45 -!- |nix| [~|nix|@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 15:10:17 dkasak_ [~dkasak@93-141-115-127.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:11:06 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 15:11:48 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:53 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@78-1-178-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:16 setmeaway [jnoos43@119.201.52.225] has joined #lisp 15:14:06 *udzinari* is surprised how the absence of videos and other sorts of *entertainment* & marketing resources for CL makes you really focus on the books, in turn greatly enhancing the productivity 15:15:04 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 15:16:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:54 There's a C++ entertainment market? 15:17:05 gko [~user@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:58 -!- pdelgallego_ [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:03 I figured almost every video I have ever watched about any topic could be summed up in half an article 15:19:40 and made clearer and less boring 15:20:05 Any lispers here from mexico? :) 15:20:57 is the source to the annotatable clim spec available? 15:21:09 udzinari: and copy-pastable 15:21:29 pmd: that too! 15:21:30 I was in mexico once, so technically, yes I've come from there ;) 15:21:43 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-126-160.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:22:36 interesting 15:23:53 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff9775.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:25:56 nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has joined #lisp 15:25:56 -!- nefo [~nefo@2001:da8:200:900e:200:5efe:3b42:8f51] has quit [Changing host] 15:25:56 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 15:27:03 -!- gko [~user@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:27:15 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:23 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:27:40 I'm from a state that used to be part of mexico, does that count? 15:30:03 pmd: and indexable too! imho it boils down to the fact that videos which are not boring usually contain more humor than detail and mostly end up wasting ones time in comparison to the same amount spent on reading one chapter from pcl or the like. 15:30:22 golney [~grant@c0201.aw.cl.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:31:08 I watched about Mexico on Discovery. I was there virtually, so to speak... 15:31:32 Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.236.31] has joined #lisp 15:32:01 udzinari: i totally agree. there are very few reasons to use videos in techical content, like showoff or ui interaction (graphics in general) 15:33:09 although some find it easier to learn if there's a background voice explaining things step-by-step 15:33:53 pmd: yeah, short demo/presentations seem to be best for most audiences 15:33:55 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:34:02 gko [~user@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 like classes. however, a screencast is so much trouble that more than not people make scripts, so accompanying the video cast with the transcript, no matter how dissynch it is to actual talk, is almost zero cost 15:35:16 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:24 udzinari: for a definition of short. for me, more than 2-5min and i'd rather read. imagine watching 6 tutorials of 10min each... 1h! 15:36:37 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@87.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:37:52 I really love the MIT open class videos 15:38:03 -!- Agari [~Agari@185.Red-79-152-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:39:29 pmd: hm, I've had several students in the past who prefered listening to reading/watching. they used text-to-speach all the time, some with pretty high speed settings, some were sitting with their eyes closed during lectures. it was funny at first but from their questions it was clear they were actually listening. 15:40:15 but that was pretty rare 15:41:19 *stassats* used to sleep at lectures with open eyes 15:41:33 *Phoodus* just skipped them 15:41:37 udzinari, are you a lecturer? 15:41:49 udzinari: i believe learning, or acknowledging, is faster listening than reading, at least with an alphabet. i was just talking about common blogging mistakes 15:41:52 bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.113] has joined #lisp 15:41:57 dlowe: they're invaluable 15:42:14 Dranik: I used to teach networking for few years 15:42:30 nice demo of GtkDrawable in the gtk-demo package, but it isn't wired into the demo... 15:42:33 pmd, is there anything valuable except SICP ? 15:43:13 Dranik: physics ones are really cool 15:43:26 ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has joined #lisp 15:43:45 one of my chemistry profs used to do a presentation entitled "Explosions I have known and loved" 15:43:55 sadly, he was not allowed to do them anymore when I was in school 15:44:11 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.39] has joined #lisp 15:46:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.191] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:46:38 Phoodus: "tryptamines i have known and loved" would be as much fun 15:47:37 one female professor was surprised at how attentive the audience was to her talk, going right after his big showpiece 15:48:11 she didn't realize that a chunk of potassium had fallen into her 60s beehive hairdo and was wafting smoke during her talk 15:49:07 this has gone far away from lisp 15:49:50 Yeah should add ;; before any offtopic comment! 15:49:58 clearly, someone needs to put something smoking into the topic 15:50:00 heh 15:50:57 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-amvaphaaxzlqvhoy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:47 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:51:52 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:52:13 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-264.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 15:53:37 tbh, even in case of SICP I much prefer the book. videos about programming are not working out well for me. one needs to invest & reinvest too much time compared to books. 15:53:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:54:52 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:55:24 in case of CL, it looked like a barrier at first though, because one always tries to compare with what he knows.. and coming from python/ruby, the absence of video stuff sure looked as a huge disadvantage, but now that I'm over it.. it's rather an advantage. 15:55:36 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:55:57 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:08 ehu` [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has joined #lisp 15:58:33 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:57 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:51 TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #lisp 16:02:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:03:55 amb007 [~a_bakic@87.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:22 -!- mgindulescu [~mircea@nat/nokia/x-llumjwxsqyyfvuyy] has left #lisp 16:05:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84-119-93-87.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:06:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:50 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:07:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:15:52 -!- tmitt [~sgray10@lap37.nomad.utk.edu] has quit [Quit: .] 16:18:50 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-8b92e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:10 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:24:32 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-161-158.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:26:03 snearch [~snearch@f053004251.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:40 Bronsa [~brace@host158-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:26 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@189.58.119.13.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:52 josemanuel [~josemanue@135.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:34:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:35:34 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:35:36 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:37:06 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-qlyeylsasbpwmxls] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:41 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:47 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 16:39:27 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:41:15 -!- Joreji is now known as JimmyPat 16:42:22 -!- JimmyPat is now known as Joreji 16:42:23 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:57 vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.47.79.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:44:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.207] has joined #lisp 16:44:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:44:51 gz [~gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:48:32 -!- rins` [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:48:57 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 16:50:31 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:12 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:52:37 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:38 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:52:45 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:18 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 16:54:19 rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:08 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:13 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff9775.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:29 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw80ff9775.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 17:00:33 Ragnaroek [5b0c4a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.74.40] has joined #lisp 17:01:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:56 krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:03:46 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:04:40 |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:53 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:07:20 Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.87.39] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 17:15:48 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:17:00 -!- pers [~user@235.sub-75-198-219.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:19:02 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:55 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.131.7] has joined #lisp 17:24:38 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:25:05 -!- jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:59 Liera__ [~Liera@113.172.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:26:48 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.191] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:00 -!- Liera_ [~Liera@113.172.71.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:31:32 -!- Liera__ is now known as Liera 17:34:23 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:38:43 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:28 HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:37 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-163-32.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:02 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:41 -!- Gmind [~Nevermind@113.190.236.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:20 pabst [~anonymous@208.74.177.139.static.etheric.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:24 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:06 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 17:48:02 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:53 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:49 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:50:49 jikanter [~jordan@66.146.192.40] has joined #lisp 17:51:28 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:30 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 17:53:28 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:03 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.47.79.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:55:02 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:48 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:51 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:57 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-towkresjoxhsdkrr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:08 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:00:49 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.131.7] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:01:03 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 sglinux [~sglinux@cm79.delta181.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:01:51 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@135.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 18:02:49 eleasah [~eleasah@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:53 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:08 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:08:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:31 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:09:45 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:22 fsrt [~m@talula.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:00 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:18:01 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:23:37 -!- fsrt [~m@talula.plus.com] has quit [Quit: fsrt] 18:25:48 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:05 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:28:14 -!- chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:31:43 silenius [~silenus@p5494691F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:18 Dranik [~dim@109.126.149.186] has joined #lisp 18:32:21 -!- Dranik [~dim@109.126.149.186] has left #lisp 18:32:52 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:17 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:35:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:19 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 18:35:24 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 18:35:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35:48 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:52 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-90-52-4.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:30 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:54 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #lisp 18:43:26 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:36 chxane [~chxane@c-76-124-17-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:22 tc [~travis@rrcs-67-78-243-170.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:36 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@static-195-114-183-51.devs.futuro.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:19 stassats: My solution to the slime-sexp-at-point-for-macroexpansion is to do (substring-no-properties (or (thing-at-point 'char) "\n")). 18:45:21 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:59 well, why not just avoid calling substring-no-properties if it's nil? 18:48:21 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:50 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:50:53 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.10.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:18 Yeah, I could to that too, making char-at-point equal to "\n" in that case. 18:51:41 longshot [~longshot@180.184.10.145] has joined #lisp 18:53:30 rtoym: In either case should prob. wrap that in a save-match-data thing-at-point may clobber it elsewise 18:53:59 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:20 I have a question wrt to symbol-name and case here: http://paste.lisp.org/+2KKF insights/comments welcom 18:54:32 Really? Sounds like something slime should already be doing if that's a problem. 18:55:12 rtoym: its not nec. a problem but it can be if you wrap that up into a higher level abstraction. 18:56:15 *rtoym* doesn't quite understand what find-all-symbols is supposed to do. 18:56:43 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:50 I don't know. thing-at-point is already called in several places before getting to that point. I'm just continuing the tradition in the slime code at that point. :-) 18:56:52 -!- gz [~gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:56:59 -!- tsuru is now known as Guest38247 18:57:15 -!- Sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:19 -!- Guest38247 is now known as tsuru` 18:57:20 IMO (char-after PSN) is cleaner... 18:57:21 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:58:38 Is there a simple way to cast a 4 byte vector to an unsigned int32? 18:59:02 seek2011 [cb81c3a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.129.195.168] has joined #lisp 18:59:03 portable? 18:59:04 with what byte order? :) 19:00:00 well, i'm trying to test endianness, so i was just trying to combine 0x12 0x34 0x56 0x78 and test against 0x12345678 19:00:24 pnq [~nick@host-149.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 19:00:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:50 (sb-sys:sap-ref-32 (sb-sys:vector-sap (make-array 4 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-contents '(#x12 #x34 #x56 #x78))) 0) 19:01:12 ooh :D 19:01:31 -!- krfs [~jonata@189-16-43-233.cte.net.br] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 19:01:50 (swap-bytes:ntohl (sb-sys:sap-ref-32 (sb-sys:vector-sap (make-array 4 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-contents '(#x12 #x34 #x56 #x78))) 0)) => 305419896 19:02:08 (write 305419896 :base 16) => 12345678 19:02:29 awesome 19:02:36 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03:10 (i wasn't entirely serious) 19:03:21 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 19:03:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:05 CL itself is above endian-ness. It just has unbound integers. 19:04:10 (reduce (lambda (a b) (logior (ash a 8) b)) #(#x12 #x34 #x56 #x78) :initial-value 0)) 19:04:25 or :from-end t 19:04:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:47 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@77.109.103.69] has joined #lisp 19:05:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 dlowe: my variant is much faster 19:11:33 any cmucl hackers here? The ML seems broken, I get: " 5.3.0 mailto:cmucl-imp-request@cons.org... User unknown" or am I being stupid? 19:12:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:18 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:35 pevaneyn: rtoym mightk now something about it 19:14:05 antifuchs: thanks I wasn't completely sure it was him :) 19:14:26 it is! pevaneyn, meet rtoym (-: 19:16:41 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:18:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:27 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:06 lanthan_afh [~ze@p54B7C143.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:49 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 19:21:04 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-78-12-87-25.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:21:20 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@203-214-47-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 19:21:44 beach` [~user@116.118.0.131] has joined #lisp 19:21:50 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 19:22:49 *Saturnation* is a bit confused by the behavior he is seeing with save-lisp-and-die in sbcl compared to what he saw 2 weeks ago... 19:23:34 first time I used it with gtk, the instance didn't quit (didn't respond to destroy events). Now, the gui NEVER shows up 19:23:35 is it not saving or not dying? 19:23:39 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has quit [] 19:23:48 oh 19:23:53 -!- keltus [~el@about/cooking/nakedchef/beefstew/Keltus] has left #lisp 19:23:55 does both, but executable didn't behave as expected 19:23:58 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:23:59 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:59 Saturnation: slad won't be well-behaved with threads 19:24:03 maybe a threading issue??? 19:24:09 make sure that gtk isn't spawning a thread or stuff 19:24:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:25 couldn't slad in slime because of threading 19:24:29 had to do it cli 19:24:34 yeah 19:24:43 well, gtk may start threads that lisp doesn't know about 19:24:51 I am not sure how gtk does the whole concurrency thing 19:24:55 I have an executable and I get some debugging formatting coming out, but no Gtk GUI to be seen :( 19:25:13 yeah. 19:25:14 makes sense 19:25:30 but I have NO IDEA on where to tackle this... 19:25:35 -!- yawniek [~yannick@84-72-19-136.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:51 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:25:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:05 in other news, I may be getting access to some nice new servers to play with, might port boinkmarks over to them (: 19:26:11 -!- beach [~user@116.118.0.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:26:22 first, exclude everything what doesn't need to be tackled, and then it'll become obvious 19:26:44 stassats, I think I'm there now :) 19:26:52 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 19:27:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.191] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:28:01 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:15 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B327B05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:27 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B327B05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:20 I imagine that the gtk:with-main-loop spawns off the gtk thread and returns, which then kills the current thread with the saved instance thinks "Oh, your done, I'm done, Good-bye!" :( 19:31:32 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p54B7C143.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:35 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:47 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:50 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:47 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:27 -!- pnq [~nick@host-149.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:34:41 -!- confounds [~confounds@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:44 pnq [~nick@host-149.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 19:37:04 TACKLED! :) 19:37:07 gozoner_ [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 19:37:11 -!- lorenz_ [~moesenle@atradig141.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:11 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:15 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:37:19 mmm, tasty lisp snippets in #lisp and #emacs. Om nom nom. ;3 19:37:35 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:37:58 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:37:59 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 19:37:59 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:38:03 just called (gtk:join-gtk-main) as the last thing in my toplevel function :) 19:38:51 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:29 antifuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 so, how much work is required for shake-tree-and-die? 19:40:45 54 Mb for a simple GUI file is a *tad* bit excessive :) 19:40:52 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:41:11 -!- simontwo [~simon@78.129.201.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:15 make it complex 19:41:17 yawniek [~yannick@84-72-19-136.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:41:35 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host158-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:48 -!- prip [~foo@host129-120-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:00 simontwo [~simon@78.129.201.122] has joined #lisp 19:42:10 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.17.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:38 Saturnation: CCL has lower memory use... build 32bit version of app for less space etc. 19:42:49 CCL? 19:42:56 Bronsa [~brace@host158-189-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:43:31 lanthan_afh [~ze@p54B7C143.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:32 Clozure CL 19:43:45 I don't find that 6.75 MB be too excessive. or even 6.749999875 MB (if you remove the tad bit). 19:43:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:20 p_l|backup, thanks, I'll check it out 19:45:55 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:55 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:46:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:31 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:47:44 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:47:45 Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-32-8-91.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:56 dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has joined #lisp 19:48:26 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 19:48:36 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 19:48:52 life is just so funny sometimes. I tackle one problem and the next one pops up. Now I can programatically stop the instance for running. 19:49:26 lorenz_ [~moesenle@atradig141.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:26 how must I write defgeneric for (defmethod method ((obj class) &optional (opt def-opt) &key (keyd def-key)) ...) ? 19:49:39 prip [~foo@host129-120-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:49:51 dmytrish: what's def-opt? 19:49:59 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:00 just pseudovalue 19:50:11 the same for def-key 19:50:38 you realize it's not a good idea to mix &optional and &key, right? (: 19:50:45 depends on how the keys can change. 19:50:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:51 yeah, true 19:50:55 -!- pnq [~nick@host-149.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:59 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:09 pnq [~nick@host-149.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 19:51:53 I am a lisp novice and may be it is a reallly bad idea 19:51:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:52:27 ok (: 19:52:32 but technically, how could I do that? 19:52:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:59 (defgeneric method (obj &optional opt &key keyd ...)) ; should do it 19:52:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:00 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.10.145] has quit [Quit: longshot] 19:53:19 or &key &allow-other-keys, if the keywords depend on the method. 19:53:20 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:24 right 19:53:27 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:54 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-71-190-69-241.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:14 Dellums [~iirc@71-213-59-2.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:14 fihi09``` [~user@pool-71-190-69-241.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:31 So annoying when spelling is significant, I get it wrong and there is no *obvious* error :) 19:54:32 -!- m1ngus [~Adium@tunnel-32-19.vpn.uib.no] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:54:33 hey what is a good compiler for lisp? 19:54:40 SBCL 19:54:57 It's a "compiler-only" implementation. Very fast and very well-supported. 19:55:01 clisp has a faster compiler than sbcl. 19:55:10 WHat is your definition of "good"? 19:55:24 pkhuong: thanks 19:55:34 just one to make an AI in and im just starting out in lisp 19:55:55 Then don't worry about the compiler now. Worry about the debugger. 19:56:02 pjb: I think most people are more interested in runtime performance than compilation performance... 19:56:15 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:56:16 right. don't want insect minds running your AI 19:56:19 Hexstream: not when they're starting out in lisp!!! 19:56:20 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:27 that would be quite horrifying. 19:56:36 okay what should i get? 19:56:39 SBCL. 19:56:43 yeah, sbcl 19:56:47 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:09 are there a lisp-to-C compiler for lisp like stalin for Scheme? 19:57:20 Yes, several. 19:57:31 alright thanks guys 19:57:35 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:39 But SBCL is more like stalin, since it seems to be the compiler producing the most efficient code. 19:57:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-125.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:57:51 -!- Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:57:59 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:04 pjb: Give up. Didn't you know this is sbcl, not lisp? 19:58:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:27 Wolong [~wolong@95.191.55.38] has joined #lisp 19:58:40 silenius_ [~silenus@p54947CBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:52 is SBCL for windows? 19:58:59 There's a port in progress. 19:59:22 More advanted port to windows are clisp, ecl and (perhaps) ccl. 19:59:43 ISTR ccl is pretty mature on windows 19:59:50 but I was disappointed a lot when realized that executable image of sbcl's helloworld weights over 20 Mb 20:00:05 dmytrish: that was on a computer with how much memory? (: 20:00:08 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:10 Dellums: if you want windows support that doesn't hilariously crash from time to time on less usual machines, grab either Clozure CL, or find if you can use commercial ones (Corman offers a cheap one, but is rarely updated and doesn't do unicode, LW and ACL have lots of support but are expensive) 20:00:11 In particular, clisp aims at cross-platform compatibility, trying hard to ensure that programs written in clisp will work equally well on all target platforms. 20:00:37 (eg. it stores its binary file always in little endian so they can be read back by clisp on whatever plateform). 20:00:43 pjb: I try to avoid clisp after seeing the mockery of portability in its GC 20:01:04 though it is very portable 20:01:11 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:29 ECL is also a good, portable implementation, but I don't believe it's good for beginners due to low debugger support 20:01:29 Always little endian? What an odd choice... Networking is all (?) big-endian, for instance. 20:01:50 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5494691F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:51 Hexstream: it'd agree. 20:01:56 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:24 s/it/I/ 20:02:31 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007074.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 wasn't CLISP even started on big-endian machine? 20:02:55 Yes. Amiga. 20:02:55 -!- Dellums [~iirc@71-213-59-2.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:27 I thought it was Atari ST, but the same CPU :D 20:04:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@74.209.54.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:53 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:05 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:05 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 20:06:11 but the computers that uses today are all little-endian. 20:06:16 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.99.84] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 -!- golney [~grant@c0201.aw.cl.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:30 HG` [~HG@xdslba171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:33 s/uses/most people use/ 20:06:40 foom: let's just ignore this little factoid. 20:06:44 well, phones are generally big-endian :) 20:06:56 really? I thought they mostly ran on ARM little endian 20:06:59 I prefer to think my nice programs work on a nice processor. 20:07:43 oh, so they do 20:07:44 rsynnott: there are nearly no big-endian phones 20:08:01 ARM is bi-endian, but yep, Android and iOS and so on are little-endian 20:08:05 somewhat surprised by that 20:08:16 rsynnott: big-endian mode of ARM is nearly never used afaik 20:08:56 in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the most common cores dropped big-endian support 20:08:57 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 20:09:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:13 _8david`: pingaling 20:09:50 PPC970 was all big-endian, I think 20:09:57 (most earlier PPCs were bi-endian) 20:10:03 oudeis [~oudeis@208.54.45.77] has joined #lisp 20:10:49 but almost always used in big-endian mode 20:11:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007074.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:11:33 tcr [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:11:34 Is there even a defined ABI for arm big endian? 20:12:07 there's the old ARM ABI which had both, but debian only supports EAPI little-endian now 20:12:23 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:44 -!- zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:13:06 zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:04 network byte order is big-endian 20:14:50 redundant Adamant is redundant 20:18:06 -!- zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:18:24 zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:31 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:18:46 -!- dkasak_ is now known as dkasak 20:20:45 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:30 rien|wor` [~user@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-110.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:23:29 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:07 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:23 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:04 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:21 -!- rien|work [~user@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:27:02 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004251.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:27:03 -!- rien|wor` [~user@static-71-249-187-201.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:26 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:38 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:38 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:27:38 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp