00:07:58 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 00:08:20 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:09:52 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: new computer *u*] 00:09:57 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:10:35 csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:02 -!- daly [~user@dynamic-acs-72-23-235-203.zoominternet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:14:08 so whatever happened to the movement to rename alexandria:curry? 00:14:21 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:01 bedtime people, bye bye 00:15:35 slyrus: is it worth it? 00:15:49 tcr1: apropos slime-selector here is a new slime-selector-method for slime-selector http://paste.lisp.org/+2K1B 00:16:19 tcr1: I think bringing alexandria in line with what folks from other functional call things would be a good thing 00:17:02 mon_key: Seems complicated. Anyway, best addressed at slime-devel 00:17:13 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:19 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:47 tcr1: yep. 00:19:20 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-105-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:22:55 -!- tcleval [bb727476@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.114.116.118] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:27:28 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:54 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:19 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 00:31:33 -!- jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has left #lisp 00:31:45 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:39:15 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.250] has joined #lisp 00:40:50 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-219-209.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:59 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:38 c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has joined #lisp 00:42:00 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:42:02 beach: Here are some ideas I was thinking of including http://www.symbo1ics.com/files/topics.pdf 00:42:37 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:40 (or https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cicl/src/1b0ab27d54e8/topics.org if you prefer text) 00:42:41 -!- tmokros [~tmokros@ip68-106-151-191.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:43:01 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:11 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:36 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:44:38 -!- c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:38 Quadrescence: Looks great! Did you consider contacting Didier Verna who is actually doing benchmarking of numeric CL programs? 00:45:07 zmv [~daniel@c9531281.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:45:07 I don't know who that is. :S 00:45:33 Google does though. 00:46:49 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:16 Quadrescence: Yeah, he is easy to find. 00:48:14 -!- kraison [~kraison@c-67-170-49-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:49:31 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:41 drafael [~tapio@mail.faulkner.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:50:03 kraison [~kraison@c-67-170-49-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:09 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC23124.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:58:40 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:03:04 -!- kraison [~kraison@c-67-170-49-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:05:50 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has joined #lisp 01:07:59 Quadrescence: FWIW, I've often considered writing a special functions package in Lisp, using some of the nice features of Lisp, especially error-handling. I often start but never finish because I can never decide on the right design. 01:08:09 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:09:37 what's a "special function" 01:10:32 Ralith: a certain category of functions >_> 01:10:39 Ralith: Special mathematical function, like trig (already implemented). Bessel functions, elliptic functions/integrals, orthogonal polynomials, and so on. 01:10:39 non-certain, really 01:10:45 Stuff like ... what rtoym said 01:11:06 rtoym: I've wanted to implement the same 01:11:11 ah 01:11:43 I wasn't aware mathematical functions were error-prone 01:11:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-218-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:57 Quadrescence: I even started doing this long before gsl existed, but they've all gone to the big bit bucket in the sky. 01:12:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:13:21 Ralith: The domain of some functions is not the entire complex plane, so you might want to signal an error. Or maybe the algorithm cannot produce an accurate numerical result, or whatever. 01:14:35 Quadrescence: Now, I usually just implement them for maxima, either in the maxima language or in Lisp for maxima. 01:15:15 rtoym: i wrote this groundbreaking code which computes everything and anything ever https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-exact/src/93feffe87f3c/hypergeometric.lisp 01:17:08 Is that 2F1? 01:17:22 pFq 01:17:30 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:41 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:49 *rtoym* has received some code Gosper for evaluating 2F1 on the entire complex plane. 01:17:59 Er, code from Gosper. 01:18:08 using 3x3 matrices? 01:18:52 Yeah, something like that. 01:19:01 yes, he is a genius 01:19:19 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:19:49 I also have some code for theta functions from him. They seem to work, but I haven't figured it all out yet because it's for whatever Lisp is used in Macsyma. 01:20:08 surprisingly, only Macsyma uses that code 01:20:14 (Well, the symbolic parts, anyway.) 01:20:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:33 He gave it to Wolfram when he was working on Mathematica 1, but Wolfram never incorporated it 01:20:53 so now mathematica has slow/non-converging 2F1s :S 01:20:59 Really? I didn't know that. 01:21:28 Yeah (source: personal correspondence) 01:21:35 I sent the code to the maxima list. Barton did some tests on it and it has some issues with roundoff or something for large arguments. 01:21:52 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.58] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:22:08 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:22:19 -!- sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:31 The 2F1 recursion is really cute. Don't know how to prove it's true, but it is very pretty. 01:22:35 It actually happens that Macsyma computes the stuff faster than Mma, and Macsyma does bignum division 1 bit at a time. 01:22:46 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:56 Where as Mma uses GMP 01:23:24 Are you talking about the Gosper's 2F1 implementation? 01:23:28 yes 01:24:40 That's kind of funny. 01:25:00 It is very funny 01:26:21 My code above is good/okay for computing convergent, integer/rational pFqs 01:27:06 probably could use some DECLAREs and whatever 01:27:20 but it gives an example at the bottom for computing exp(1) 01:27:28 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-208-165.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:29:29 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:30:02 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:30:40 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:30:52 Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:37 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:32:22 Quadrescence: well, I'd generate a couple specialised versions (for integers, rationals, single float, etc), but, mostly, SPLITTING probably would work better as 4 vectors of values instead of a vector of 2x2 matrices. 01:32:37 -!- sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:52 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:33 pkhuong: yeah, that's true. I was trying to copy some pseudocode in my book 01:35:41 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:37:16 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:15 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:39:50 -!- numeromancer [~tschaeffe@dramail.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-58.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:43:15 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:43:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:24 It's wonderful! TrueType has so many specifications to choose from! 01:44:58 *Xach* is aware of two 01:45:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-58.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:45:42 Right now I am looking at: http://developer.apple.com/fonts/TTRefMan/ 01:47:25 Xach: What's the other one? 01:47:58 There's one at microsoft typography, though the link I had is broken. 01:48:17 ... and more importantly: which one is preferable? 01:48:34 http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/ 01:48:45 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9531281.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:49:16 Xach: That's the one I started with, but then got confused because I couldn't see how a particular file (FreeFont) fit the spec. 01:50:44 Quadrescence: do you have some prose describing that algorithm? 01:51:25 pkhuong: yes 01:52:04 beach: What is the file name? 01:52:10 pkhuong: section 5.3: http://www.symbo1ics.com/files/book.pdf 01:52:42 Xach: Actually, I decided to download the "ISO standard equivalent" indicated on the MS website. 01:52:56 Xach: c052136_ISO_IEC_14496-22_2009(E).zip 01:53:16 pkhuong: page 25-27 (physical page 33-35) 01:53:39 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 01:53:39 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:51 Quadrescence: thanks. 01:53:59 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Grazl] 01:54:07 476 pages!!! 01:54:28 beach: What is the name of the font file? 01:54:49 Oh, FreeSans.ttf 01:55:22 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:55:36 Xach: Don't worry about it. I am convinced that I am just confused, and I'll figure it out eventually. 01:56:23 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:53 beach: Sounds like a TrueType (not OpenType) file to me. 01:57:59 Very likely so, which is why I went to Apple. But then I was lead to believe that every TrueType file is an OpenType file. That could be why I am confused. 01:58:17 Quadrescence: I don't really have a lot of use for that sort of code (right now), but it's still interesting to play with, sort of like FFT (: 01:58:59 pkhuong: hehe, if you optimize it in some way, or write it in a prettier way, let me know 01:59:21 beach: That's true. OpenType is a superset of TrueType. 01:59:59 beach: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/otff.htm under "Organization of an OpenType Font" explains what the first few bytes of an opentype file will look like. 02:00:01 Xach: Thanks for reasssuring me. I'll continue with the ISO standard for now and see how that turns out. 02:01:00 Xach: stop talking about fonts and postscript and graphics and vectors before i get interested in making the stuff i was planning on making 02:01:14 Xach: I read that, and failed to understand it. 02:02:46 Xach: But it's just that I am slow. I'll get it eventually. 02:03:59 Xach: I guess one piece of information that is missing is that the layout of the file depends on the file extension (as far as I can tell). 02:04:44 beach: That is incorrect. 02:05:10 beach: The layout of the file depends on the first few dozen octets in the file. 02:06:20 Hmm, OK. So it looks to me like one might come up with a TTC Header and an Offset Table that look indistinguishable, given the right version numbers and such. 02:06:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:08:27 -!- sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:36 beach: that seems likely only when the truetype version approaches 29812.0 02:11:12 Xach: Still, that's very unappealing to me, especially in a standards document. Which is why I searched in vain for another explanation. 02:11:40 ... such as file extension. 02:11:53 Since it's over 20 years old and on version 1.0, I'm willing to take that risk. 02:12:40 Xach: Me too. I just couldn't imagine someone would not put a warning in the standard then, so I got stuck trying to figure out what on earth they meant. 02:12:40 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:13:55 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:14:10 One single phrase would have been enough: a version number that is indistinguishable from the string "ttcf" is specifically not allowed. 02:15:04 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 02:17:44 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:22:09 sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:45 -!- xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:05 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:16 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:26:11 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:02 CrazyEddy [~postmatur@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:33:33 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:15 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:36:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:19 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:25 -!- pers [~user@71-214-58-123.clsp.qwest.net] has left #lisp 02:42:17 huangho [~vitor@201-66-171-186.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:49:05 Quadrescence: do you have more test cases? 02:49:20 pkhuong: I can give more 02:49:38 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:49:50 which I'll do 02:53:18 sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:25 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.250] has joined #lisp 02:55:17 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:55:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:58:08 is it possible to signal an error from within the :report form of a condition? 03:02:24 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:04:30 pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119282 03:04:57 p: foo <===> #'(lambda (k) foo) 03:05:04 same with q 03:07:22 -!- cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:08:14 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 03:08:34 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:08:42 ikki [~ikki@189.247.83.25] has joined #lisp 03:16:20 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:17:27 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:03 pkhuong: p: (1+ (* 2 k)) ; q: (+ 3 (* 2 k)) ; z: -1 ===> pi/4 03:22:03 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:23:00 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.188.14] has joined #lisp 03:23:02 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:25:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:26:27 wrt erroring in :report this is what is causing me trouble http://paste.lisp.org/+2K1F 03:29:33 fusss [~fusss@120.155.234.73] has joined #lisp 03:29:33 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.155.234.73] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 03:32:22 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:34:46 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:34:53 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:36:32 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:39:22 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:19 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:44:04 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-171-186.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:47:12 M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.236.243.26] has joined #lisp 03:51:25 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 03:52:21 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:39 aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has joined #lisp 03:55:52 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 03:56:20 I own both and have read neither, and am looking to start a book tonight - so I ask you, which should it be: On Lisp or PAIP? 03:57:00 PAIP. 03:57:27 I had been leaning that way, but just couldn't make up my mind. 03:57:46 -!- drafael [~tapio@mail.faulkner.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:57:53 I'm willing to go on faith fo a single answer (indecision is a bitch), but if you have a substantive reason, that'd be cool too. 03:58:05 from a single answer* 03:58:27 You can also read what's said of them on cliki.net and in cll. 03:58:37 swell I will 03:58:44 I'd go with PAIP first too. 04:01:08 seangrove [~user@64.134.228.158] has joined #lisp 04:01:10 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:01:47 PAIP it is. thanks again. 04:04:12 On Lisp won't make sense unless you already know a fair amount of lisp. 04:04:40 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 04:05:21 well i do know a fair amount, i've diddled around with lisp off an on for a decade. and in the past year have been playing more frequently. I just finished Land Of Lisp and am eager to move forward. 04:06:07 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 04:09:52 I have little idea about how I might approach a larger project using lisp. For whatever reason, the small problems I encountered whenusing asdf and asdf-install always tended to deflate my interest. Quicklisp has got me interested once more. 04:11:12 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.236.243.26] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 04:11:44 csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:17 -!- aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:15:44 If you know some lisp and want to know more about macros and such, On Lisp is a good place. It's a little dated though in a few parts. I think it uses some functions that don't exist anymore in CL. 04:16:01 sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:09 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:21 rtoym: is On Lisp that book that has a chapter or bit on implementing continuations in CL? I remember a CL book that did that, but can't remember which 04:20:35 I think so. 04:21:11 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:31 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:29:34 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29:51 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:31:50 -!- seangrove [~user@64.134.228.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:34:22 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:19 pnq [~nick@AC82567D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:14 seangrove [~user@108.126.114.119] has joined #lisp 04:38:40 rtoym: cool, thanks 04:39:53 csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:09 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:51 rien: Yes, On Lisp ch. 20. As I recall, he does this in a sort of low hackish way. 04:52:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.83.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:53:05 caoliver: beautiful, I'd hate to lose track of that book forever :) 04:54:29 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:58:10 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:18 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:15 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:08 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:30 csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:48 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:40 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 05:17:51 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:34 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:19:01 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:55 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:46:07 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-46-14.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:50:16 -!- seangrove [~user@108.126.114.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:21 adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:05 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ldedoyixuetwssfj] has joined #lisp 05:53:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ldedoyixuetwssfj] has quit [Changing host] 05:53:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:57:56 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:58:23 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-119-97.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:40 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:09:26 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:10 -!- caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 06:12:55 -!- larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:13:30 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:29 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@173-10-44-57-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:23:57 nostoi [~nostoi@111.Red-80-39-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:54 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:34:59 hello lispers 06:39:03 does anybody know how to open emacs' speedbar from swank ? 06:42:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:53 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 06:51:56 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:52:41 beach, good morning 06:54:26 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:54:45 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:54 leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.69] has joined #lisp 07:02:56 rgov [~rgov@128.213.33.222] has joined #lisp 07:07:18 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vaxmnjhljeshuvxn] has joined #lisp 07:08:18 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:08:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:08:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:11:33 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:54 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:17:58 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:19:03 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:14 does anybody know how to use swank:eval-for-emacs ? 07:22:42 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:24:16 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:25 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82567D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:24:27 good morning 07:25:58 hello mvilleneuve 07:26:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:26:08 do you know swank ? 07:27:02 does anybody know if it's possible to interact with emacs from repl for example to open speedbar ? 07:28:23 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:28:48 hello mvilleneuve 07:28:56 hey kushal 07:36:31 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:47:05 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@111.Red-80-39-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:53:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 07:53:28 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 07:54:04 good morning! 07:54:14 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:15 morn 07:57:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Client Quit] 07:57:41 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 08:03:45 splittist [~John@234-128.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:03:48 morning 08:03:48 splittist, memo from beach: probably the first solution, a set of docstring files like docstrings-en.lisp, docstrings-fr.lisp in each module. 08:04:46 *splittist* feels special 08:06:40 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-132-35.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:43 Hey splittist! 08:06:58 hey beach! Thanks for the memo(ries) (: 08:07:55 Sure! :) 08:09:03 nevill [~nevill@114.88.58.239] has joined #lisp 08:10:20 splittist: For SICL, I was also planning to release a module (probably at least partially automatically generated from the others) containing all of the docstrings. 08:12:23 -!- splittist [~John@234-128.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:12:41 splittist: I also haven't decided the exact mechanism for internationalization. It would have to be unintrusive in that it must not break existing mechanisms (that do not take internationalization into account). If you have any ideas or thoughts, let me know. 08:13:01 splittist [~John@234-128.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:13:13 as I was saying... Time to update the TOPIC. 08:14:05 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.69.7] has joined #lisp 08:15:09 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 08:15:24 good morning 08:15:35 hello kami` 08:16:31 beach: you were around in #lisp at any time when you were in France. And now, it's the same although you're at the other end of the world. 08:16:36 this is spooky! 08:17:08 -!- kami` is now known as kami 08:18:23 kami: It's an illusion. I actually sleep my 8h per night, and I work full time, though right now I am working on the computer at home because of the Tet holiday, so I have an IRC window next to my usual work window. 08:19:47 splittist: You probably missed my last uttering about internationalization, and it contained a demand for you to transmit any ideas or remarks on a mechanism for that. 08:20:25 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:54 kami: Also, during meetings and seminars, it is perfectly possible to be on IRC, because the information contents per time unit of a meeting or a seminar is actually quite small. 08:22:42 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:22:48 beach: I understand. 08:23:25 beach: OK. Actually I'm finding it highly useful from a protocol development POV to be writing tests and docstrings at the same time as the code. 08:26:53 beach: I do wonder about the utility of xlating docstrings if the names of functions, classes, macros and variables don't change. 08:28:11 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-65-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:04 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:29:31 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:04 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-30-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:33:21 -!- sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:50 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok054022.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:35:13 does anybody now who knows if it's possible to interact with emacs from repl for example to open speedbar ? 08:35:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:35:43 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 08:36:07 kiuma: doesn't swank have something like an evaluate-in-emacs? 08:37:16 StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 08:38:31 splittist: Separating the docstrings from the rest is mostly useful when the protocol is very stable, such as CLHS or CLIM II or something like that. 08:39:31 splittist: I think my students would benefit greatly from translated docstrings and condition reporters. They just can't handle the combination of a foreign language and foreign terminology. 08:40:42 beach: fair enough. I guess translated argument lists would be useful, too. 08:41:29 splittist: As in the names of the parameters? Perhaps. I hadn't thought about that. 08:41:41 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:42:16 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:42:25 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-xuhpwigwqtumidhc] has joined #lisp 08:42:26 splittist: Because then you get a difference between DOCUMENTATION and FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION. 08:42:58 splittist: It is probably better to keep the variable names intact, but to explain them in the local language. 08:43:30 splittist, yes it has but I haven't understood how to interact with it 08:44:19 splittist, it's swank:eval-for-emacs 08:45:14 it accepts args: form buffer-package id 08:45:51 beach: I was thinking of a mechanism to change the F-L-E. But looking at a selection of parameter names (list, object, array) I don't think it would add much given that the key-word params (test, start, end etc) stay the same. 08:45:57 kiuma: isn't that the other way around? 08:46:40 splittist: Sure, right. 08:47:52 joe6 [~joe6@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:47 daniel [~daniel@p5B327D30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:00 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:49:39 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:21 splittist: you could confuse everyone by having a reader that translated symbols in the common-lisp package from another language on the fly (: 08:50:24 is there a simple way to indent lisp code in a long line: (x (y (z... and goes on for quite a long line? in emacs 08:50:43 *splittist* hears me 08:51:30 joe6: pprint 08:51:38 in common lisp 08:52:01 with appropriate setting of *print-right-margin* (or similiar) 08:52:42 splittist, sorry I don't understand 08:52:52 tcr1 (pprint "filename")? 08:52:53 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082AD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:54 elisp's pprint might have the equivalent of print-right-margin, too 08:53:25 i am a newbie, please bear with me. so, can i do pprint from within emacs too? 08:53:35 i have the file with the long line open. 08:53:40 in emacs, I mean. 08:54:03 joe6: where did you get the long line from? 08:54:46 copied it from somewhere. 08:55:42 joe6: you can do the pprint in REPL, like (pprint '(x (y (z ...)))) 08:55:45 don't bother. changed the source generator. 08:55:52 jdz: thanks for the idea. 08:55:55 joe6: and then copy/paste back into your file 08:56:08 joe6: oh, so it *was* generated... 08:56:40 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-yjbmidphmcjlwmlo] has joined #lisp 08:56:40 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-yjbmidphmcjlwmlo] has quit [Changing host] 08:56:40 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:57:12 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:57:48 kiuma: I think splittist meant that swank:eval-for-emacs lets emacs evaluate code in the lisp process, and not, what I think you want, let the lisp process evaluate code in emacs 08:59:51 koning_robot, then I don't know how to interact with emacs 08:59:57 koning_robot: yes 09:00:31 icbh [~icbh@ntszok054022.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:00:50 swank::eval-in-emacs? 09:03:00 adu_ [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-95.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:28 yeah, that does the trique 09:03:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:04:13 slime-eval-for-lisp?? 09:04:26 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:01 splittist: what are you asking? 09:06:09 -!- adu_ [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-95.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:08:00 stassats: nothing. 09:08:10 ok 09:08:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:26 We are in full agreement on all points (: 09:10:53 -!- kfr [void@haskell.prime.to] has left #lisp 09:11:42 i've just exported swank:eval-in-emacs 09:15:10 stassats, but a user still needs to set slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs to true 09:16:15 is there a real security risk ? 09:20:10 it probably depends on whether you trust the lisp you're connected to. if you're making something for yourself to use, it's probably fine 09:20:18 kiuma: what are you trying to achieve? I hope this has nothing to do with QP200... 09:20:37 QP200 ? 09:20:51 do you mean quickproject ? 09:21:45 koning_robot: Software you require could use it for malicious purposes 09:22:07 but then so it could anyway due to eval-when :-) 09:22:38 splittist, ? 09:22:56 kiuma: yes. 09:23:32 why don't you like the feature of opening a buffer and eventually the speedbar ? 09:26:05 When? With what? OK. If this cleverly tells whether I've called qp from a slime-repl and - if I request - opens the relevant files in buffers and - if I have it, and I ask - does something with speedbar (whatever that is), then why not. I imagine at that point you've got your own quickproject.rc.lisp that sets things up how you like... 09:27:10 tcr1: I don't understand how they could use eval-when for that; do you mean cl:eval-when or some slimey/swanky eval-when? 09:27:11 a quickproject.rc.lisp should be a nice solution 09:27:21 (and if it's done is such a way that folks using, say, the CCL IDE can add equivalent functionality, bonus) 09:27:50 maybe putting it in ~./config/whatever 09:28:03 koning_robot: Third party software could do (eval-when (:compile-toplevel ) (rm-rf "/")) 09:28:15 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:07 actually, what would be great would be a trivial-configuration facility that looked in a canonical set of places in a canonical order for each OS (checking environment variables as appropriate). Unlike, say, ASDF2 which seeems to have decided Windows is too difficult. 09:30:56 tcr1: yeah, but wouldn't that just run in the lisp process (which may be on another host) and not in emacs, though? 09:31:11 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 09:35:51 -!- nevill [~nevill@114.88.58.239] has quit [Quit: nevill] 09:40:44 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:46:22 is there any particular reason why (swank::eval-in-emacs '(create-file-buffer "/home/kiuma/temp/quicklisp2/README.txt")) doesn't return ? 09:46:29 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok054022.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:48:11 because it encounters an error? 09:49:56 mmm... 09:50:17 swank::eval-in-emacs '(create-file-buffer "/home/kiuma/temp/quicklisp2/README.txt") t) exits 09:50:30 and loads the buffer 09:50:33 because it doesn't encounter an error? 09:51:08 isn't it the same eval ? 09:51:20 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:26 no, because it ignores the return value 09:52:16 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024C9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 09:52:26 where do I see these errors ? 09:52:44 i know what the error is, the unability to print #<> 09:54:02 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:23 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:54:32 kiuma: for me they pop up in a *slime-error* buffer 09:56:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:12 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:26 dek5 [~eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has joined #lisp 10:01:48 kiuma: this is fixed in CVS now 10:02:38 good 10:03:35 now I need fe[nl]ix to update gentoo 10:03:53 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:04:31 -!- dek5 [~eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:04:58 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:07:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:09:01 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:40 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:25 orivej [~quassel@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:14:21 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:15:17 Blkt [~user@93-33-139-151.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:15:18 dek5 [~eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has joined #lisp 10:16:15 xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:13 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 10:22:50 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:20 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 10:27:07 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:15 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:42 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:37:18 good morning everyone 10:37:30 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:20 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:41:26 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:42:23 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44:59 -!- orivej [~quassel@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:45:28 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:31 -!- dek5 [~eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49:26 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.177.23] has joined #lisp 10:49:42 hello Blkt 10:49:50 Good evening everyone! 10:52:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:52:18 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:53:16 hello beach 10:53:23 where are you exactly? 10:53:37 Japan? 10:53:45 orivej [~orivej@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 splittist, is there any image of CCL ide ? is it a nice ide ? 10:58:30 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:59:47 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:03:41 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:41 Blkt: vietnam, iirc 11:08:56 I see 11:09:48 ok got control over speedbar too, good 11:10:19 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 11:10:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:19 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:11:15 hi 11:11:48 yo 11:11:53 -!- k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:26 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-139-151.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:26 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:20:14 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:44 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:48 kvir4567 [~kvirc@77.79.155.36.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:34:00 stassats: is slime HEAD good enough for a snapshot ? 11:34:08 http://bashtube.ru/video/165278/ 11:34:28 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:36:02 fe[nl]ix: there haven't been much changes in the last two months, so i think it should be good 11:36:11 ok 11:36:17 -!- kvir4567 [~kvirc@77.79.155.36.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has left #lisp 11:36:45 but quick, helmut isn't happy with my eval-in-emacs changes 11:37:01 hahaha 11:37:28 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:37:53 thx fe[nl]ix 11:38:12 stassats, why ? 11:38:50 because it's too nice to the programmer 11:39:12 hehe 11:39:31 i've slightly modified it so that it's less nice 11:39:47 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:51 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:41:36 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B833.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:48 stassats: a degree of masochism is expected? 11:43:25 rsynnott: that's how slime looks by default 11:45:52 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:39 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:56 kiuma: done 11:52:11 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:10 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:53:29 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:45 -!- mindCrime_ is now known as mindCrime 11:54:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:15 hi people 11:56:43 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:57:15 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57:51 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:51 Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:16 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 12:11:45 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12:41 -!- pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:14:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:14:51 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:17:47 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:19:32 pankajm [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:20:18 orivej [~orivej@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:21:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:22:28 k9quaint [~quaint@c-98-207-104-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:04 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:24:45 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:15 hi 12:27:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.69.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:27:58 i'm looking at sbcl-1.0.41/src/code/symbol.lisp -- there are a few strange defun's there 12:28:14 orivej [~orivej@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:28:51 many consist of just calling themselves with same arguments 12:29:16 apparently themselves 12:29:36 billitch: what's wrong with this? 12:29:46 brodo [~brodo@p5B024C9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:54 well at least there is no pointer to actual implementation 12:30:04 did you try M-.? 12:30:23 yes i was trying M-. on symbol-plist 12:31:39 brought me to this reified definition 12:31:57 pkhuong, or anyone who has an opinion: if I had the opportunity to set a master's project for a student who is "good at programming", is there an achievable pattern-matching compiler that it would be fun for sbcl to have (maybe to be used with magic method specializers)? 12:33:51 billitch: it's defined in sys:src;compiler;generic;objdef.lisp:310 12:39:09 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 12:39:23 stassats: thanks, maybe i'll send a patch that someone bored of applying interesting ones will read 12:40:07 What will the patch do? 12:40:09 what patch? 12:43:48 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:44:00 some doc or comment to point to actual implementation ? 12:44:21 what is CCL ide (is there any image around) ? 12:44:51 billitch: better provide a patch which adds xrefs to symbols translated by define-primitive-object 12:45:04 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:42 How would I go about copying a multidimensional array(not vector)? 12:46:46 maxpn [~maxp@92.126.27.176] has joined #lisp 12:46:55 stassats: ok i might look into it 12:47:17 I have found 3 methis so far, single element by element copy and assignment, flattening the array and using copy-seq and "undisplacing" a displaced array tot he original with adjust-array 12:47:21 methods* 12:48:12 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:15 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:48:29 sprayzor: alexandria:copy-array is what i'd try first. 12:48:42 The first one seems slow, the second adds indirection in form of a dsiplaced array, and the third modifies the array to be adjustable 12:48:44 Krystof: speaking from my position of unassailable ignorance, I think if the specification of the task was sufficiently (a) narrow and (b) extensible then almost any outcome would count as a success for sbcl and the student. 12:49:14 (that's sort of inside-out ) 12:50:28 tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:50:50 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:51 so what's the sbcl scm currently ? really the sf.net cvs ? 12:52:01 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:21 that's the primary repo, yes (hence no release) 12:52:36 but there's an up to date mirror at git.sbcl.org 12:53:01 jsnell: ok, nice thing to have 12:54:00 alexandria:copy-array uses the "undisplaced" array way 12:54:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:18 so it makes it unsuitable for copying simple-arrays 12:54:34 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:37 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:54:44 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:56:08 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:56:35 sprayzor: what happens when you try to copy a simple-array? 12:57:34 can anybody tell me what the CCL ide is ? and where I can find it ? 12:57:35 Xach: The returned array is (AND () (NOT simple-array)) 12:57:49 so unsuitable for optimization 12:57:58 billitch: it sems to m like the CVS repo these days is just the "master" branch of git repos ;-) 12:58:12 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024C9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 12:58:42 kiuma: the ccl ide is an ide for ccl, and it is available on ccl.clozure.com 12:58:50 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:50 is it not actually part of CCL? 13:00:30 rsynnott: It is part of CCL. 13:01:01 is there any picture of it, does it work for linux too ? 13:01:17 I think it's dependent on cocoa 13:01:56 Xach: The problem seems to be that the adjust-array "undisplacing" method ALWAYS retursn an adjustable array so, it tursn any simple-array into (AND (ARRAY ) (NOT simple-array)) 13:02:10 sprayzor: I see. 13:02:32 kiuma: I don't know of any pictures, and I don't think it works on Linux. 13:03:31 e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ntvexxudohvrwlzk] has joined #lisp 13:03:32 kiuma: you can read about it here: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter5.html#ccl-ide No pictures from there. 13:03:49 CCL allegedly supports using gnustep, so in principle I suppose it could be ported 13:03:52 In fact its probably a buf in alexandria since the array will be adjustable no matter what you passs as :adjustable parameter and regardless of the adjustability of your array 13:03:53 Ok I'll let ide integration/configuration for quickproject to someone else (I'll concentrate only on emacs now) 13:03:56 bug 13:04:01 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:04:30 kiuma: I am not going to use any code from you for Quickproject, sorry. You should make a new project with a new name. 13:04:56 no problem , I 'll call it in another way of course 13:04:57 kiuma: The point of my mentioning it is that if quickproject becomes dependent on slime then (a) it is useful to fewer people than if it isn't and (b) should presumably be driven Slime-side, becoming a slime-contrib. 13:05:09 kiuma: slime-project! 13:05:10 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-xuhpwigwqtumidhc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:06:12 kiuma: I think the CCL IDE is almost just a demo, anyway; I can't really see any reason that someone would use it over slime in its current state 13:06:48 kiuma: here's an old picture http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/openmcl-ide-rainer.png 13:06:49 ok, I'll finish my work then, afterwards you can review it (if you want) and give me some suggestions. 13:07:07 thank you 13:07:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:25 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:07:37 The copy-array problem arised when I started making type declarations.Originally I used a pretty similar version to alexandria:copy-array but with less parameters and noticed that. 13:07:58 note that most of what's in that screenshot is actually (a very old version of) Apple Interface Builder 13:09:37 its quite a dilemma beacuse, if the requirement to preserve the adjustability and therefore the simple-array optimizations is to make every copy index by index... The inneficcient copy might shade any optimizations the simple-array type allows 13:10:55 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:44 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:52 sprayzor: do you need a full copy? Would some data structure containing differences and a reference to the original be efficient in your use-case (whatever that is)? 13:13:04 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 13:13:05 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:33 splittist: Definetly a full copy, in fact , being the :element-type of the array (unsigned-byte 8) it most likely gets optimized to an array of ACTUAL bytes instead of refs 13:17:49 splittist: The aray is part of the struct that holds a sudoku, so full copies are needed for backtracking 13:19:14 sprayzor: maybe its faster if you only store the last change, and some kind of index ... I did that for crossword generation, and it got much faster that way 13:19:53 so, in effect, the recursive call is something like (recursive-call (cons (new state...) (old-state))) 13:19:55 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.177.23] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 13:20:39 flip214: I find it hard to belieev that no CL program ever needed to copy an array 13:20:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-38-174.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:21:07 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:23 perhaps nobody does it because it's slow? :-) 13:21:35 lemoinem [~swoog@12-73-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:16 If I'm using s-expressions in an external file (for settings) is it good form to use straight-up symbols (not keywords)? 13:22:39 flip214: ahem, no-body does beacuse the standard twisted way of allowing it is underhand 13:22:40 ed 13:23:09 tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:23:17 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:36 flip214: and how can you backtrack an error that has happened sevearl layers under the current state of the sudoku? 13:23:48 flip214: ofc without recursion 13:23:55 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 13:24:39 well, without recursion, ie. with iteration, you need to store a stack of attempts - but this is again a simple list that gets a try (push)ed to it, and (pop)ped in case of failure 13:24:41 flip214: lets say you make a guess but you dont know that guess was wrong until you have guessed 8 other times and the sudoku is now nothing alike 13:24:54 sprayzor: there are two ways to implement backtracking data structures; one is full-on copying, the other is to store trailers to describe the changes to undo. 13:25:05 sprayzor: how many bytes in the array? For chess you can get away with a ub32 and some book-keeping, IIRC 13:25:19 flip214: you cant just store the change beacuse that doesnt allow you to "undo" the state 13:25:27 the recursive functions just return some kind failure - so the state variables get automatically returned to the local values of earlier calls, which can then try another solution 13:25:36 baker makes a nice connection between that and shallow binding, and shows how that can be used to implement a persistent (even more general than undoable) array with O(1) operations 13:25:44 flip214: as i said no recursion 13:26:14 iteration and recursion are interchangeable - for iteration you'll have to explicitly store a stack of changes to undo, with recursion it's more automatic 13:26:26 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:06 Xof: how about IR2? Recovering an expression tree from IR2 and doing some tree pattern matching to emit decent code would likely be good for ~1-2 semesters, I guess. Otherwise, any reason for the pattern matching compiler aspect? 13:27:15 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:37 well, just store an (row new-value indexes) - where indexes is a (simple-array 9) (for a 9x9 sudoku) pointing to earlier tuples 13:27:52 flip214: i wonder then how would i skip saving state even if i used recursion 13:28:36 sprayzor: may I suggest reading paip or some other book that describes things like that? 13:29:04 sprayzor: : how to implement fast persistent arrays. 13:29:26 -!- e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ntvexxudohvrwlzk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:30:09 this still doesnt answer the original question of how to copy a simple-array 13:30:10 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.228.232] has joined #lisp 13:30:16 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.177.23] has joined #lisp 13:30:37 sprayzor: row-major-aref, array-total-size and dotimes. 13:31:14 instead of arguing on that, lets just take a deep breath 13:31:29 think of doing that in any other lang 13:31:42 There are displaced array tricks with replace; whether they're faster depends on a lot of factors and you'll have to test on your favorite implementation. 13:31:43 and the obvious "slow as fuck" 13:32:11 there are 3 methods: 13:32:43 1)make a new array of equal properties and copy index by index 13:32:45 sprayzor: "watch the language"? 13:32:52 *p_l|backup* doesn't think "slow as fuck" is a good term anyway... 13:33:00 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:11 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:33 2)use a displaced array to "flatten" it use copy-seq and unflatten your copy with another displaced array(slow too) 13:34:16 3)Use the "trendy" alexandria way of "undisplacing" with adjust-array (buggy) 13:34:20 (too slow by what indicator, but sure) 13:34:39 2 and 3 mess the array 13:34:51 2 adds indirection with a displaced array 13:35:13 3 changes the type of your array to always be adjustable 13:35:33 so no more simple-array optimizations 13:35:42 ... stack overflow is weird. You've earned the "Necromancer" badge for "What's a good Common Lisp implementation for Windows?". 13:36:19 p_l|backup: maybe because Lisp is dead? 13:36:33 Rearden [~John@rrcs-184-74-157-126.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:35 So appart from those 3 ways of copying an array, is there any other aproach? 13:36:54 yes ... don't use them ;-) 13:37:22 flip214: Oh forgot that 13:37:29 or 4) make a new array, use XML/JSON/whatever serialization you like, and use that to copy 13:37:33 Xach: it's for answering a question more than 60 days old that is already ranked 5 or more 13:37:50 sb-kernel:copy-byte-vector-to-system-area? 13:37:54 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:37:55 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:06 stassats: Not implementation specific 13:38:18 #+sbcl sb-kernel:copy-byte-vector-to-system-area? 13:38:20 Xach: ah, apparently it's for getting that answer highly rated as well ;D 13:39:40 stassats: so there is NO portable way of copying a multidimensional simple-array without a)beaing painfully slow b) changing the type and discarding optimizations? 13:39:51 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:11 b) isn't painfully slow? 13:40:11 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.177.23] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 13:40:43 copying an array index by index is not painfully slow? 13:40:55 and no 13:40:57 i don't know, i didn't profile it 13:41:16 do yuo need to profile bogosort to know its a bad idea? 13:41:21 sprayzor: it might be fast ... if it's a simple-array, the compiler could some some optimizations - like loop unrolling 13:41:23 it's not slow for my needs 13:41:24 amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:29 lol 13:41:31 perhaps it really just does a few 64bit copies 13:42:14 how come that? 13:42:26 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:47 so we make a bogosort and hope the implementation specific compiler tursn it into an useful sort? 13:42:49 sprayzor: copying an array is o(n), it doesn't matter what particular way you chose 13:43:00 sprayzor: bad analogy 13:43:24 sprayzor: so, is copying an array a bottleneck in your application? 13:43:29 it does matter on modern architectures :) 13:43:37 sprayzor: what sort of magic is going to make copying arrays NOT like copying them element by element? 13:44:05 compiler magic to make it word-by-word? 13:44:15 sprayzor: I'd hope that for suitably defined types the compiler knows *exactly* the dimensions of a simple array; so, knowing that it has to do 9 iterations of the inner loop, it could unroll them, and then, seeing that it's 9 bytes to copy, put them in a one or two statements 13:44:15 for example 13:45:18 flip214: it rarely helps to think about SSC 13:45:44 and it's rarely helps to think about performance without profiling 13:46:05 unless copying an array is your end goal, i'd focus on something else 13:46:22 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-cvyvzhzargmeewso] has joined #lisp 13:47:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-94-166.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:47:49 it IS the end goal but w/e 13:48:09 ill just do a make-array and copy the whole thing 13:48:22 at least i will still be a simple-array 13:48:26 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:58 sprayzor: what would have made you happy? Having a System.arraycopy()? 13:50:01 Te closer to that is adjust-array 13:50:22 AND its use for copying arrays is generally wrong 13:50:36 so yes 13:52:07 *Xach* decides the lesson is to be smug about arc, which doesn't even have arrays 13:53:01 my lesson was to drink more coffee 13:53:34 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53:45 lisping @ 5:49am is taxing enough without arrays :) 13:54:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:02 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:24 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:55:56 sb-kernel:copy-byte-vector-to-system-area is quite fast 13:56:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:21 orivej_ [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:56:37 but it happens to be implementation specific 13:56:46 performance is implementation specific 13:56:49 daly [~user@dynamic-acs-72-23-235-203.zoominternet.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:51 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-27-164-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:09 not 13:57:50 you can expect simple-arays to be generally faster than adjustable/displaced arrays 13:58:02 not mandated 13:58:28 alright, this is in vain 13:58:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:32 Now i dont know if I hate CL or i love it, but that is its insane, its for usre 13:59:40 omg 13:59:46 what an aberration 13:59:49 of typos 14:00:07 thinkos rather. 14:00:07 pkhuong: (pattern matching) only that I figure it might be fun to have a vaguely efficient pattern matcher hooked into defmethod-style infrastructure 14:00:33 I need some advice on nicifying an sbcl terminal application 14:00:41 pkhuong: I'll happily hear other ideas for ~1 semester projects, but only for another 3 hours (I have to meet the student at 5pm ;-) 14:00:43 it's basically a REPL waiting on (read) 14:01:00 I'de like it to exit gracefully when you do a C^c or C^d 14:01:19 clhs read 14:01:24 not again! 14:01:30 should I mess around with catch, handler-case, ignore error, unwind protect etc 14:01:34 _8david [~user@port-92-195-17-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:35 yvdriess: read has eof-error-p parameter 14:01:53 and eof-value 14:02:23 that's for C-d 14:02:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:03:13 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:03:21 amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:43 and C-c is a sb-unix:SIgint 14:04:44 sprayzor: I don't see the problem with an element-wise copy and various implementation-specific ways to do it even more simply. 14:05:21 -!- Rearden [~John@rrcs-184-74-157-126.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:22 Xof: the pattern matching challenge for regular defmethod is interesting. 14:05:36 But i'm not sure that it's possible to something even vaguely smart without going exponential. 14:05:39 Rearden [~John@rrcs-184-74-157-126.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:29 yvdriess: If you can't use a handler-case on the sigint, you should be able to mess with sb-sys:enable-interrupt for arbitrary signal handling. 14:10:05 hm ok 14:10:20 ignore-errors takes care of everything but the C-c's sigint :) 14:10:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:02 makes no sense 14:11:38 yvdriess: I think sigint is a special case. 14:11:41 -!- Rearden [~John@rrcs-184-74-157-126.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:11:48 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:01 Rearden [~John@rrcs-184-74-157-126.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:14 -!- tsuru is now known as Guest86474 14:12:16 yvdriess: depending on what you want, you can also play with the FD to change the way C-c and C-d are interpreted. 14:12:52 FD? 14:14:01 panike [~nwp@76.201.149.178] has joined #lisp 14:14:32 -!- Guest86474 is now known as tsuru` 14:14:45 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:46 as in function decriptoe alla (setf (symbol-function 'package:sigint) 'my-fun) ? 14:16:28 FD is file descriptor, obviously 14:16:46 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:59 Well, but how does that reate to C-c? 14:17:51 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:42 In C it is pretty simple to grab the sigint message and provide your own functionality. 14:19:42 Seems to me the answer should be in the Posix package.. 14:19:44 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:20:10 Younder: one answer is sb-sys:enable-interrupt. 14:21:21 (handler-bind ((sb-sys:interactive-interrupt (lambda (e) (declare (ignore e)) (print "shutting down") (sb-ext:quit)))) (read)) works nicely 14:21:23 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.3] has joined #lisp 14:21:23 here 14:22:10 nice! 14:22:32 as well as more simple (handler-case (read) (sb-sys:interactive-interrupt () (print "shutting down") (sb-ext:quit))) 14:22:59 And as Xach pointed out, this also works: (sb-sys:enable-interrupt sb-unix:sigint #'(lambda () (sb-ext:quit))) 14:23:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-219-209.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:23:12 I can't find any docs for enable-interrupt though 14:23:34 is there a more detailed than sbcl.org/manual ? 14:23:43 source code 14:24:04 C-c C-d C-d yeah :) 14:24:13 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 14:24:33 Or this channel if you want the answer this week.. lol 14:25:09 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:25:09 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:41 Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:26 urandom__ [~user@p548A6490.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:36 For the record handler-bind happens before the stack is unwound (useful for restarting code) and handler-case after the stack is unwound (for traditional exceptions). I found this point wage in the ANSI spec. 14:28:58 What is a point wage? 14:29:02 xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:29 Isn't that what typesetters are paid? 14:30:19 ok vague 14:30:41 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.113] has joined #lisp 14:31:17 It's in the third paragraph 14:31:48 Xach: my almost non-existent wage 14:31:58 While they seem identical at first glance. Their uses are quite different. 14:32:01 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:04 good to know 14:33:25 they could at least have reflected it in the names :p 14:34:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:45 *stassats* learns about :no-error clause 14:41:14 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:05 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:05 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2CB1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-230-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 benny [~benny@i577A3B43.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:14 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:16 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 14:47:57 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/mosva] has joined #lisp 14:48:02 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/mosva] has left #lisp 14:53:51 splittist, No, nut copywriter sare.. 14:54:23 splittist, No, but copywriters are.. 14:54:32 sigh 14:54:55 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 14:55:11 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:55:13 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:57:24 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:05 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.109] has joined #lisp 14:58:11 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:59 -!- Rearden [~John@rrcs-184-74-157-126.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:03 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:59:08 rien_ [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:03 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnim4dnificent 15:00:16 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:00:21 -!- madnim4dnificent is now known as madnificent 15:01:04 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:23 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:48 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-94-166.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:18 faulevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:24 zmv [~daniel@c9531281.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:06:41 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:35 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.211] has joined #lisp 15:08:38 -!- pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:13:43 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:15:10 tcleval_ [bb1297c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.18.151.200] has joined #lisp 15:15:22 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:16:15 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:16:32 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:16:32 hhi, Do you guys know "Made in Lisp" sites? But not Lisp oriented sites 15:16:49 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:16:57 Is there some library with parallel-mapcar? 15:17:31 pr [phil@komodo.contextshift.eu] has joined #lisp 15:17:31 -!- pr [phil@komodo.contextshift.eu] has quit [Changing host] 15:17:31 pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 15:17:45 JFGI -_- 15:18:16 tcleval_: There is some commercial project in development by RESTAS developer. 15:18:48 -!- njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:48 -!- twem2 [~twem2@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:09 naryl any links? 15:19:14 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 15:20:03 TR2N [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 15:20:05 -!- StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:06 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:31 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-117-158.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:43 looking for it. You can always ask him directly at lisp@conference.jabber.ru 15:20:50 Don't worry, most of them speak english :) 15:21:17 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:23 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21:50 njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has joined #lisp 15:24:42 skeptomai [~cb@63.231.32.97] has joined #lisp 15:26:11 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:26:31 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:26:47 how do i generate a list containing all possible binary strings up to a length n except of the one containing only 0's? 15:27:00 is there some function that does this already or should i write my own? 15:27:14 why should there be a function for that?? 15:27:42 luckily, alexandria contains map-permutations 15:27:49 why not? it is really useful for brute force algorithms to enumerate all cases, and sometimes brute force is the best you can find 15:28:02 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:21 thanks 15:29:20 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has joined #lisp 15:30:19 (loop for i from 1 upto (ash 1 length) collect (format nil "~2r" i)) 15:30:19 zomgbie_ [~jesus@212095007109.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 15:31:15 stupid question, how do i install alexandria if not having root permissions neither asdf installed? 15:31:24 just download the source and place it somewhere? 15:32:10 pluto12345: try quicklisp 15:32:24 o.O You don't have ASDF installed? 15:32:53 naryl: it can't load it at least 15:33:46 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-69-136-131-95.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:34:12 Doesn't quicklisp include its own asdf? 15:34:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:34:35 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:49 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:50 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:51 antoszka: Not sure what you mean by its own asdf, doesn't it just install asdf? Or did you mean its packaged asdf? 15:35:04 this quicklisp looks great 15:35:13 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 15:35:19 i have not coded in lisp for 3 years and it's nice to be back even though i make some simple scripts 15:35:22 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:28 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:35:52 pluto12345: quicklisp is pretty great 15:36:29 Kruppe: I mean  does it require an external asdf, or is it enough to have a supported CL implementation and just load the quicklisp installer? 15:36:29 pluto12345: needs one or two more things though, mainly an "uninstall lib" feature 15:37:02 -!- tcleval_ [bb1297c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.18.151.200] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:37:02 antoszka: I'm pretty sure it just uses the installed one if it is new enough, if not it gets a newer version from its repo 15:37:14 antoszka: and likewise if it doesn't find it at all 15:37:20 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:37:24 Kruppe: Great. 15:37:26 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:37:31 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vaxmnjhljeshuvxn] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:37:53 antoszka: so it's pretty self contained, a big part of its awesomeness 15:38:03 Kruppe: Right, that's what I was wondering. 15:38:29 I'm pondering dumping my system-packaged lisp stuff and running everything from quicklisp. 15:39:02 antoszka: Right now I'm mixing it, portage and quicklisp are playing nicely so far. 15:39:15 Kruppe: Same here. 15:39:22 Kruppe: Except for osicat. 15:39:27 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:46 The portage one seems to load first and doesn't work with some of the quicklisp packages. 15:40:29 antoszka: I don't use it so I haven't run into anything, but if I run into problems I'm probably just going to manage things through quicklisp. 15:41:47 antoszka: if you can figure out the bug though just pop into the #gentoo-lisp channel and tell them 15:42:04 antoszka: they are fast at fixing things if you have a good bug report 15:42:04 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:42:12 Kruppe: I'm sitting there  I just think it's a matter of included version. 15:42:14 antoszka: or ebuild patch or whatever 15:42:30 Kruppe: Will chat to them when I come up with the error again. 15:42:41 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:53 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:44:52 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:29 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 15:45:55 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:46:33 tcr1: i think you didn't understand what i asked, map-permutations is not what i want 15:46:46 i don't want to take a sequence and take all permutations, but something more 15:47:00 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:07 even though i could generate what i want with map-permutations maybe 15:47:28 hm, just a sec 15:48:50 *splittist* enjoyed this Guy Steele talk: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Thinking-Parallel-Programming 15:50:13 -!- joe6 [~joe6@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:55 M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.177.23] has joined #lisp 15:51:01 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:23 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:53:35 morning 15:53:56 jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has joined #lisp 15:54:41 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:57:21 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:43 -!- maxpn [~maxp@92.126.27.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:05 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:01:53 splittist: http://labs.oracle.com/projects/plrg/Publications/ICFPAugust2009Steele.pdf 16:03:40 d4rky-pl [d4rky@gateway/shell/sundance.i-rpg.net/x-wkydbklgtqlyafkd] has joined #lisp 16:03:44 -!- d4rky-pl [d4rky@gateway/shell/sundance.i-rpg.net/x-wkydbklgtqlyafkd] has left #lisp 16:05:45 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:06:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@chris-PC.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:08:29 leo2007 [~leo@124.72.185.59] has joined #lisp 16:08:37 urbaniv [~urbaniv@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has joined #lisp 16:10:58 -!- skeptomai [~cb@63.231.32.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:28 leadnose [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:12:40 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:01 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:28 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:25 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:15:40 -!- mindCrime_ is now known as mindCrime 16:17:29 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:17:46 churib: thanks. 16:17:53 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 16:20:31 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:22:24 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 16:22:43 skeptomai [~cb@70-7-120-50.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 silenius [~silenus@p4FC232CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:23 brodo [~brodo@p5B024C9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:34 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:26:27 -!- panike [~nwp@76.201.149.178] has left #lisp 16:26:38 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@218.74.177.23] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 16:29:50 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:30:52 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32:22 vser [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:32:48 -!- vser is now known as Landr 16:36:19 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:37:12 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:37:56 panike [~nwp@76.201.149.178] has joined #lisp 16:38:02 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.221] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 how again do i trim a list of all identical elements 16:40:36 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 16:40:44 for examlpe '(a b a a b c c d a) -> '(a b c d) 16:41:08 remove-duplicates 16:41:15 thanks 16:41:27 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:42:34 jweiss__ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:35 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:11 csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:01 tcr1: is it possible that remove duplicates doesn't work on a list of lists? 16:44:17 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:17 i mean it doesn't remove duplicate sublists because they are stored in some other way or something? 16:44:44 take a look at its :test argument 16:44:49 thanks 16:45:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:46:03 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.185.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:47:33 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.205] has joined #lisp 16:48:30 leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.69] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:21 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-117-158.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:49:38 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:59 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 16:52:43 -!- urbaniv [~urbaniv@2001:67c:1220:c1b0:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has quit [Quit: urbaniv] 16:53:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 16:53:51 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:13 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:14 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 16:55:17 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:30 -!- skeptomai [~cb@70-7-120-50.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:41 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 16:58:55 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:11 Is there a way to load an image from stream? ch-image loads from file and uses filename to determine the filetype. I need at least jpg and png. 16:59:27 serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:34 Good evening! 16:59:58 I mean is there a ready to use library? I can always "fix" ch-image of course. 17:00:23 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 17:00:47 naryl: there are functions in ch-image that don't use the filename 17:02:00 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:02:01 hmm... for writing the streams anyway. that could easily be fixed. 17:02:23 for jpeg anyway. I don't think I ever got around to reading PNG images 17:03:22 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 17:03:31 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 17:03:48 -!- panike [~nwp@76.201.149.178] has left #lisp 17:04:16 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 17:04:28 there's a decent PNG library out by now, right? not that zpng isn't decent, but it only supports writing PNGs, IIRC 17:04:58 no, maybe there isn't: "...implemented as a set of CFFI bindings to libpng" 17:05:05 not exactly what I had in mind 17:05:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:05:32 slyrus: there is cl-png and it only reads from stream 17:05:37 r2q2 [43ad6b5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.173.107.90] has joined #lisp 17:05:40 hi 17:05:48 #summeroflisp seems a little dead 17:05:57 naryl: right, but it's not quicklisp-firendly as it requires cl-png 17:06:01 friendly even 17:06:26 slyrus: It says pre-0.5 versions were pure lisp :D 17:06:39 ramarren has a png-read package 17:06:51 ok last question i get my results now, i need to present them. this is probably a stupid question but i didn't code lisp for 3 years and my memory is not so good. i have a list of sublists, each sublist contains 3 elements, the third element is a list containing only one number, i want to trim the lists of the third element of sublists so to have only the numbers as third elements, and i want to find the sublists con 17:06:51 taining the smallest number as it's third element. any hints? 17:07:11 sorry for asking such things which probably are trivial 17:07:45 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:07:46 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:04 If you could form sentences, it would be easier. 17:09:20 -!- leadnose [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has left #lisp 17:09:23 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:09:26 serichsen: i used periods 17:09:50 -!- prip_ [~foo@host19-122-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:56 say i have ((a b (5)) (c d (4)) (e f (10))) 17:10:07 i want to get ((a b 5) (c d 4) (e f 10)) 17:10:11 I think perhaps you should think very hard about it 17:10:12 tcleval_ [bb1297c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.18.151.200] has joined #lisp 17:10:34 and also i want to select the sublist with the smallest third element that would be in the example (c d 4) 17:11:05 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:21 -!- r2q2 [43ad6b5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.173.107.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:05 pers [~user@159.sub-69-98-159.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:08 (mapcar (lambda (x) (apply #'list* x)) '((a b (5)) (c d (4)) (e f (10)))) => ((A B 5) (C D 4) (E F 10)) 17:14:31 hm, mapcar it is, thanks stassats 17:14:43 and how would you select the least one? 17:15:04 pluto12345: The second is a simple (reduce #'min ...) with the appropriate :key argument. 17:15:18 aah, reduce, alright htank you both! 17:15:37 serichsen: but it won't really do what pluto12345 wants 17:15:50 stassats: Not? 17:16:03 unfortunately 17:16:08 it will only return 4 17:16:35 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 17:16:45 -!- tcleval_ [bb1297c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.18.151.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:42 (loop with min and min-sublis for whole in '((a b (5)) (c d (4)) (e f (10))) for (one two (three)) = whole when (or (not min) (> min three)) do (setf min three min-sublis whole) finally (return min-sublis)) => (C D (4)) 17:18:28 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-cvyvzhzargmeewso] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:31 oh good i need to refresh my lisp if i plan using it more often again, i think this i didn't know even when i was writing more code 17:18:40 loop syntax :) 17:18:47 thank you stassats 17:20:04 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:22:24 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:30 prip_ [~foo@host241-124-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:22:52 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:23:42 -!- devn [~defn@rot13.pbqr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:24:20 stassats: i get an error of the form 4 not car 17:24:28 and i don't really understand your code unfortunately 17:24:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-132-35.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:34 any idea? 17:25:12 is this (one two (three)) a kind of pattern matching? 17:25:42 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:25:44 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:53 sorry 17:25:59 CAR: 4 is not a list 17:26:49 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 17:27:27 pluto12345: You fed it the flattened list, not the original one. 17:27:46 pluto12345: it's called "destructuring" around these places 17:27:54 no i used th eoriginal one 17:28:05 becase i saw the "destructing" 17:28:41 and now i fed the flattened, same error 17:28:51 i think i get the code idea now though 17:28:51 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@212095007109.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:29:40 -!- leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:29:55 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-222.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:16 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:31:26 slyrus: cl-png is already in quicklisp 17:31:53 it is? 17:32:03 I'm going to use png-read instead of cl-png 17:32:34 You're going to add it to ch-image? Can I ask you a favor? :) 17:32:50 sure 17:33:17 Make a generic read-image-from-stream which determines the type from header. 17:34:24 hmm... I'll consider a patch for that but I'm not really sure how to do that 17:35:51 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-206-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:38 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:36:54 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:01 slyrus: Or try to parse with every lib catching parse-errors 17:37:13 cmm [~cmm@109.66.206.178] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 They should detect magic sequences 17:38:01 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:20 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:16 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.98.44] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-38-174.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:41:28 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-38-174.iburst.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:13 zitterbewegung [43ad6b5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.173.107.90] has joined #lisp 17:42:22 Anyone here with lispnyc? 17:42:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:43:09 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 17:43:17 -!- zitterbewegung is now known as r2q2 17:44:25 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:45:19 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:36 mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has joined #lisp 17:48:31 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:05 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-95-154.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:49:30 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:49:47 naryl: sounds great. like i said, I'll happily take a patch for that. in the meantime, I pushed a version that was working {read,write}-{tiff,jpeg}-stream and write-png-stream 17:50:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.228.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:08 read-png-stream requires actually using read-png to read the file and I haven't gotten around to it yet 17:50:14 (as does read-png-file) 17:53:00 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:16 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC232CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:02 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:03 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B024C9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 17:58:21 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:00:48 tcleval_ [bb1297c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.18.151.200] has joined #lisp 18:02:19 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-95-154.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 18:04:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:09 when I open a lisp file with emacs I get this waring "The local variables list in sample1.asd contains values that may not be safe (*)" Why ? the heading of the file is ;;; -*- Mode: LISP; Syntax: COMMON-LISP; Package: SAMPLE1; Base: 10 -*- 18:05:09 -!- tcleval_ [bb1297c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.18.151.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:07 kiuma: some of the variables aren't on the defalt safe variable list. 18:06:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:06:46 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:35 pkhuong, is this a standard behaviour, I'm writing slime-project a project builder that interacts with emacs, opening newly created files and interacting with the speedbar 18:07:53 do I have to change the file heading ? 18:08:00 kiuma: it's standard for emacs to complain 18:08:17 antifuchs, any suggestion ? 18:08:19 kiuma: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119306 18:08:33 (I was hoping lisppaste would announce this, but I got a blank page instead. nyef?) 18:09:05 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:09:12 that's not an exhaustive list, but it makes life much better (: 18:09:58 but without sepcifying the mode the warning doesn't show. Question is do I patch emacs, or do I change headers ? 18:10:19 you don't patch emacs as such. you just tell it which variables are safe to set 18:10:33 you can remove the header, but that won't solve the problem in other files 18:11:13 I'm not a huge fan of these ; variables, but some people put them in their code. oh well. 18:11:52 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 18:12:24 mode is safe by default. 18:12:37 I don't know what the syntax/package/base vars are for there 18:12:41 antifuchs, I don't mind of other sources now. slime-project creates a fresh project then opens files in emacs 18:13:27 so if avoiding that header solves slime-project problem, then I'll be fine 18:14:01 foom, thanks 18:14:17 foom: Symbolics nostalgia 18:14:41 yeah, that would explain it (: 18:14:56 carlocci [~nes@93.37.213.79] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 I'll ask on #emacs what is suggested to keep and what not 18:15:43 kiuma: we told you: drop it all. just go with ";;; -*- lisp -*-" and you'll be fine 18:16:01 yeah, that. 18:16:03 antifuchs, thanks ok 18:18:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-120-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:48 drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has joined #lisp 18:20:25 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:38 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 18:21:07 works like a charm, tomorrow I'll publish the project an a screencast :) 18:21:30 nearly a RAD :D 18:22:28 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:25:24 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:25:56 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-219-209.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:18 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-140-232.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:28:39 naryl: png reading is now in ch-image (for truecolor and truecolor-alpha anyway) 18:29:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:31 slyrus: great. Now I can brag about lispers' responsiveness ;D 18:29:46 test it to make sure it works first :) 18:30:25 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:09 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:41 Hello all. 18:33:20 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.98.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:35 howdy nyef 18:35:58 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:36:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-38-174.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:19 hey, anyone have handy a link to the discussion of that absolutely horrible 'common lisp' 'security' book? 18:37:32 the one that listed functions and put blurbs about deleting files under DELETE 18:37:56 zomgbie [~jesus@91.137.20.132] has joined #lisp 18:38:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-38-174.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:38:58 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9531281.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:39:14 kpreid: I think Xach and Nikodemus made fun of it on their blog 18:39:20 also, it has some nice amazon reviews 18:39:25 I thought so too, haven't found on xach's 18:40:27 or nikodemus's 18:40:52 weird 18:41:05 just recently, I found that discussion again. wonder where that was 18:41:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:43 anyway. http://www.amazon.com/Programmers-Ultimate-Security-DeskRef-encyclopedia/dp/1932266720 reviews by gigamonkey & nikodemus 18:43:00 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl9-65-221.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:43:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:44:20 Ah, I remember that awesome review. "Don't buy unless you intend to sue the author." 18:44:31 haha 18:44:39 Heh. Nice. 18:44:59 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:46:47 -!- orivej_ is now known as orivej 18:51:41 brodo [~brodo@p5B025FEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:02 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:53:17 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:54:04 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.143.189] has joined #lisp 18:54:50 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:09 dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has joined #lisp 18:58:08 Are there any ready-made packages/systems for "genericizing" the number functions/ops? 18:58:51 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:59:13 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:59:30 Quadrescence: check out tfeb's conduits 18:59:35 http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/hax.html#CONDUITS 19:01:14 antifuchs: thanks 19:01:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-38-174.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:24 also recommended: Mad people of comp.lang.lisp (: 19:02:45 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@193.239.152.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:15 antifuchs: haha, do they not like making +-*/ generic? 19:03:54 no, it's just a pretty comprehensive list of trolls from Back In The Day (: 19:04:05 hahaha 19:05:38 slyrus: defpackage doesn't have read-png-* 19:06:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:52 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:07:02 xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:15 thanks naryl. fixed and pushed. 19:09:43 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:09:46 thanks 19:09:47 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 19:10:01 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:16 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:10 UnwashedMeme [~nathan@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 19:18:54 prxq [~user@mnhm-590c3d9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:58 hi 19:19:22 hello 19:20:44 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:22:41 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.213.79] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 19:23:35 Is there a way to pass in an anonymous function to a macro? 19:24:01 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:24:07 carlocci [~nes@93.37.213.79] has joined #lisp 19:24:12 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:24:30 Or rather, to be able to tell the macro that one of the arguments passed in should be evaluated right now and that the return of that (an anonymous function) can be used later in the macro 19:26:10 HerbieB: when stuff is evaluated is up to the macro expansion. 19:26:46 you can force forms to be evaluated at read time using the #. read macro, but that's not often a very useful solution 19:27:11 It may be the correct one here, actually, hmmm 19:27:21 (some values can't be written to fasl files, and the value of things may be different at read time than at run time) 19:27:32 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:27:33 what do you need to use it for? (: 19:28:19 The long answer is that I wrote a CL->JS compiler some years ago and I want to create a way to define identical functions in client code and server code so that I don't repeat how the html form gets generated even though it compiles differently on the server and client :P 19:28:39 And one of the ways I achieve this is by making the compiler expand macros on the server before compiling them 19:29:26 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-148-22.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:35 But there are subtle difference to the inside of how this html looks that I'd like to be able to define when calling the macro 19:29:54 By giving it an anonymous function depending on the context I am defining the function 19:30:18 Does anyone have any qualms about overloading arithmetic operators for new number types (e.g., a fixed point type)? 19:31:28 integer? 19:31:34 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:31:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:32:36 stassats: it'd be an integer with an exponent 19:33:08 Yeah, #. isn't the solution because this needs to happen at macroexpansion time 19:33:17 Wait 19:33:19 WEhoops 19:33:39 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:46 There is it 19:33:48 it is 19:33:51 antifuchs: Thanks :) 19:34:25 neat (: 19:34:41 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 19:35:28 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-91-45.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:12 Quadrescence: as long as you don't modify CL:+, etc, there's no problem in defining ARITH:+ to do whatever you want however you want. 19:39:55 StephenFalken [email@89-180-199-205.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 19:39:59 a friend of mine did that recently, adding units of measurement to the calculations. shadowing the operators on import made applications suddenly "unit aware" ! 19:40:19 -!- TR2N [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:32 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:20 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@182.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:43:13 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-69-136-131-95.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:43:39 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:47 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:52 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:19 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 phil [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:44 A/B focus testing... which do you like better for a literal for caffeine: #{CN1C=NC2=C1C(=O)N(C(=O)N2C)C} or #M"CN1C=NC2=C1C(=O)N(C(=O)N2C)C" ? 19:45:00 i don't like caffeine! 19:45:04 slyrus: the second 19:45:33 though you might use {} around it instead of double-quotes 19:45:39 quotes make me thing of text 19:45:49 #M{CN1C=NC2=C1C(=O)N(C(=O)N2C)C} 19:45:53 hmm... that's not bad 19:46:02 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:19 slime doesn't play too nicely with sharpsign 19:46:22 s 19:46:42 slime doesn't play nice with altered read tables at all 19:46:53 well, it can cope 19:47:02 but still, it's not always joy /-: 19:47:12 even the standard readtable isn't so great 19:47:34 C-c C-p on #2A((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9)) doesn't work :( 19:47:47 -!- phil [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:55 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-142-248.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:58 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:27 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:50:35 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 19:51:09 -!- r2q2 [43ad6b5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.173.107.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:48 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-241-218.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:53:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.205] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:54:20 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:00 konr [~user@tramp.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 20:00:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:00 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:14 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.205] has joined #lisp 20:04:53 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:32 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 20:07:26 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 icbh [~icbh@ntszok054022.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:12:02 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:20 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:12:24 alright, p_l|backup, #M{} it is. thanks! 20:12:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.28.15.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:13:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:31 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:56 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-112-110.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:14:18 -!- prxq [~user@mnhm-590c3d9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:14:41 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3d9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:25 -!- serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has quit [Quit: ::1] 20:17:47 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:19:31 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-48-189.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:31 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-48-189.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:19:31 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:21:33 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-222.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:08 There's no built in way to have a generic value (a symbol which dispatches based on what it's coerced to, or how its type is inferred), right? 20:23:43 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-076-096.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:25:13 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:04 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-193-226.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:20 hi Fare 20:26:42 Bronsa [~brace@host132-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:29:10 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:29:25 slyrus: unable to read PNG image -- fix read-png-stream! 20:29:35 On this one: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/election.png 20:29:51 probably it's an indexed color png. 20:30:02 or grayscale 20:30:05 easy enough to fix 20:30:33 $ file election.png 20:30:35 election.png: PNG image data, 740 x 214, 8-bit grayscale, non-interlaced 20:33:28 hazon [~hazon@host146-241-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:34:25 hi everybody 20:35:06 naryl: ok, try now 20:35:18 next you're going to run into a problem with indexed color images... 20:35:40 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:45 HET4 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 -!- v0|d [~user@213.232.33.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:51 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:57 -!- adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has quit [Quit: death] 20:36:26 _death [void@common.lisp.su] has joined #lisp 20:36:50 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:01 Ralith_ [~ralith@d142-058-076-096.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:37:02 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 20:37:30 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:37:30 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:36 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 20:37:40 how can I resolve a reader macro conflict? I have loaded two packages which both define the "[" reader macro... 20:37:49 use named-readtables 20:37:53 minion: named-readtables? 20:37:54 named-readtables: Named-Readtables is a language extension library that provides a namespace for readtables akin to the already-existing namespace of packages. http://www.cliki.net/named-readtables 20:37:59 slyrus: It doesn't crash. I probably won't try to use ch-image with anything other than xkcd for a long time :) 20:38:29 nyef: can you summon specbot? 20:38:36 ok. indexed color is pretty easy. 20:38:40 Yeah, give me a minute or so. 20:38:45 thanks 20:38:56 *stassats`* starts the stopwatch 20:39:25 slyrus: btw this works: http://sprunge.us/EPiE?cl 20:39:27 hi people 20:39:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:49 nyef: you suggestions work great 20:39:55 You can't try libs on stream because they read some bytes before signalling 20:39:55 nyef: your 20:40:08 stassats`: Is it just specbot that's gone, or do I need to fix minion and lisppaste as well? 20:40:10 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-076-096.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:18 thanks! 20:40:19 nyef: minion works well 20:40:34 lisppaste is gone too 20:40:38 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 20:40:49 Okay, so specbot and the pastebots. 20:41:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:41:34 Actually, easier just to hit all of them at once. 20:41:38 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 20:41:39 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:41:59 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:14 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:23 so, how hard is it to make an auto-reconnect for them? 20:42:37 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 francogrex [~user@109.130.168.39] has joined #lisp 20:42:52 Well, the first part is for them to notice that they've been disconnected. 20:43:29 Which is probably fairly easy, but requires adding suitable smarts to their current I/O dispatch logic, which is SERVE-EVENT based. 20:43:56 So, as you can well imagine, I've been avoiding dealing with that damage. 20:43:58 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:44:03 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 20:44:57 (Seriously, the bots run a single-threaded araneida! And messing with SERVE-EVENT is out-and-out dangerous at the best of times.) 20:45:47 *stassats`* cries, debugging functions running from hunchentoot is such a pain 20:46:13 Mmm. There's always the sherlock holmes method. 20:46:16 it messes up backtraces, swank works the same issue around in some way, is should copy 20:46:22 (Or the feynman method.) 20:46:48 how old is that code? 20:46:54 prxq: Which code? 20:47:01 prxq: at least 10 years. 20:47:02 the code for the bots 20:47:07 and something (cl-who?) messes up form highlighting, i feel like i'm in dark ages 20:47:36 nyef: worknig on the bot's stability? 20:47:37 actually, my question is - is this thing still maintained? 20:47:39 Well, ISTR that araneida still had a maintainer when the bots were originally written... 20:47:47 ehu: No, just kicking them back online. 20:47:48 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 naryl: ok, indexed (8-bit images) work. there's still support for 1,2,4,16 bit images needed... 20:48:25 prxq: not really, unless someone steps in to fix this code for real. 20:48:27 *stassats`* awards nyef "The Best Bot Bouncer Award" 20:48:32 prxq: If by "maintained" you mean "in a state of benign neglect", then yes. 20:48:41 i see :-) 20:48:48 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 prxq: There are about three people that I'm aware of with direct access to the code, and anyone with the clnet root password could easily add themselves... 20:49:46 Every so often either I or chandler put some effort into fixing something up or adding a feature. 20:49:54 back in 2005, the bots kept dying regularily. I remember that there was a loop killing and restaring the process - i think it was based on resource usage 20:50:12 Yeah, that was nasty to track down. 20:50:17 nyef: chandler still is around? 20:50:22 Rarely. 20:50:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.205] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:50:45 nyef: you had to track that down? 20:50:48 The 2005 thing was actually an fd leak causing the serve-event delay exploit to trigger. 20:51:06 ah - the bug 20:51:29 i thought you meant the loop. 20:51:29 If we caught it early enough, we could use lsof to find the dead fds and close them explicitly from the REPL. 20:51:37 The loop is still there, actually. 20:51:38 haha 20:51:47 well, I have a cl-irc bot too which keeps dying on a "invalid character on ASCII input stream" error 20:52:01 We try not to use it, because the startup delay on the system-as-a-whole is monstrous. 20:52:18 why is that? 20:52:22 if the bots are running on recent sbcl images, that could be there issue too. 20:52:24 (Largely due to loading the entire paste set into memory from separate XML files.) 20:52:30 ugh 20:52:54 fe[nl]ix, hi 20:52:56 same with cliki. 20:53:07 startup time is roughly 15 minutes. 20:53:16 Yeah, something like that. 20:53:22 wow. 20:53:41 doesn't really invite to some rigorous hacking. 20:54:11 i'd hack on it... if someone would pay 20:54:20 same here. 20:54:25 a lazy paste loader would really be quite a fix, it seems. 20:54:39 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:44 only to the bootup time. 20:54:46 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:54:48 After the last major round of refactoring and the conversion to use weak pointers for the paste bodies (preventing the constant out-of-memory conditions we were having at the time), things got a bit more stable and easier to hack, but... 20:54:49 i'd do it if I knew enough about web stuff 20:54:50 not to the system stability. 20:55:16 prxq: you'll learn in the process 20:55:18 The paste DB is actually fairly well segregated at this point. 20:55:24 No web stuff involved. 20:55:32 But our current stability problem is the bots. 20:55:41 cl-irc? 20:55:45 Which has been on my list to investigate for quite a while. 20:56:09 nyef: my bot has built-in "am I still connected" detection. 20:56:14 you could copy that code. 20:56:25 lemme check the link to the sources 20:56:28 Yeah, but an old cl-irc, from before the simple connection-management thing was deprecated. 20:57:04 http://hix.nu/svn-public/alexis/trunk/alexis/ 20:57:12 ehu: Thanks for the offer, but I'll probably just roll my own from first principles. 20:57:58 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:58:38 Looks like the initial import for the current version of lisppaste was seven years ago. 20:59:27 And the last changes were some anti-spam measures about eight months ago. 21:00:27 -!- nixnyan [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:15 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:47 nuntius [~nuntius@pool-71-162-117-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:59 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:01 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:03:36 So, the slow part of lisppaste startup is (mapc #'read-paste-xml-from-file (sort (directory (make-pathname ...)) #'< :key #'(lambda (e) (parse-integer ...)))). 21:04:36 Oh, and the pastes are stored on a list in memory. 21:04:48 All that lovely linear access time! 21:05:20 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 21:05:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@91.137.20.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:24 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:13 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.205] has joined #lisp 21:08:19 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.65.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:06 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:09:32 The sort bit can be improved. 21:09:44 The entire thing can be improved. 21:10:07 More easily now, I'm sure, since the paste list is no longer used as part of the public interface. 21:13:34 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:35 Obviously move invariants out of loops. mapc is effectively used as a for-each. 21:17:24 -!- pers [~user@159.sub-69-98-159.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 21:17:48 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:50 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-476.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:20 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-476.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:23:01 nyef: did you program lisppaste? 21:23:25 rotfl 21:23:33 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 21:23:46 Posterdati: no, someone else created it. 21:23:58 chandler 21:24:03 Posterdati: he's trying to fix some of it. 21:24:14 chandler? 21:24:45 he used to frequent the channel too. 21:25:40 He's online, just not in any channel 21:26:54 ? 21:27:31 rasterba_ [~rasterbar@174-144-117-249.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:31 -!- Landr [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:28:00 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host132-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:28:11 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:42 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6490.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:30:40 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:03 nixnyan [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:50 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:06 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:56 -!- rasterba_ [~rasterbar@174-144-117-249.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:31 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 21:37:09 ehu: so it has access to lisppaste server? 21:37:16 ehu: how it works? 21:37:54 nyef: but it's only a couple of lines! 21:38:37 Posterdati: magic, mostly 21:38:51 Posterdati: an http server and an IRC client running in the same lisp image. 21:39:14 ehu: ah ok 21:39:37 ehu: hosting? 21:39:53 hosting what? 21:40:00 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:34 ehu: http server and irc client have to be hosted somewhere 21:40:49 ah. yea. they are. 21:40:56 on common-lisp.net 21:41:12 ehu: who pays for it? 21:41:28 the Tech Coop. 21:42:01 what is it? 21:42:07 a company? 21:42:08 www.tech.cooop 21:42:12 coop. 21:42:17 A cooperation. 21:42:32 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.168.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:57 a cooperative 21:43:06 ah. ok. 21:43:08 ok 21:43:12 gonzojive [~red@c-98-207-157-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:23 is that what you call it. 21:43:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75688d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:43 it's what co-op expands to 21:43:55 has a pretty closely defined meaning, I believe 21:44:09 $50 21:44:16 for subscription 21:44:18 apparently some people feel that it also needs an umlaut or two 21:44:31 coop d'état? 21:44:36 20$ according to the cite.. 21:44:51 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 21:44:51 *rtoym* knows it's cooperative, but only thinks of tech.coop as in chicken coop. 21:45:11 use start-logic myself 21:45:26 rtoym: I'm sure drewc has one on his boat 21:45:27 Posterdati: initially, but you also have charges for the services you consume. 21:45:37 ehu: :) 21:45:39 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.143.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:42 cmm: a chicken coop? 21:45:51 yeah, the .coop tld is ... not ideal (: 21:46:09 stassats`: here, in Italy coops are mostly property of comunist party :) 21:46:09 ehu: OK, I may be exagerrating a little 21:46:18 communist 21:46:32 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:47 ehu: looking at drewc's reddit comments made me prone to, I guess 21:46:48 damn, chicken.coop is taken by the montana poultry growers 21:46:49 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:47:14 Posterdati: maybe. but it's definitely a good way to get at-cost services. 21:47:14 aren't they supposed to be owned by the participants/employees & governed democratically? 21:47:16 anyway. 21:47:24 antifuchs: yes. 21:47:41 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:10 antifuchs: which doesn't mean that they're owned by their customers (a choice rather unfortunate choice imo in the current Tech Coop) 21:48:22 ehu: not maybe 21:48:31 oh, many are, as far as I can tell, thouhg 21:49:00 antifuchs: no, it's a way to get money to finance the party itself 21:49:17 many Genossenschaften (the .at equivalent) have that feature... especially housing co-ops 21:49:53 antifuchs: firms are people related to communist party 21:50:06 antifuchs: we call it red-coops 21:50:19 you buy a share of the co-op when you move in, and get reduced "rent" (which isn't rent exactly) and other perks. 21:50:22 antifuchs: opposite to white-coops :) 21:50:51 carnieri [~carnieri@186.214.47.56] has joined #lisp 21:50:52 antifuchs: coops are almost tax-free here 21:51:34 -!- sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:52:24 that's how it is with austria's trusts... everybody who has a bunch of money has one, because they're such a convenient way to keep it without paying taxes 21:52:50 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:01 (not a short-sighted move at all. everybody benefits if schools go to hell.) 21:53:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:09 but that is far into non-lisp territory (: 21:53:21 heh... trusts... I've mostly looked at those as a way to get some pension when I finally can't handle working anymore) 21:53:48 you might want to look into opening some in other countries (; 21:54:01 antifuchs: Paul Graham thinks that schools should go to hell, so it's true 21:54:04 our former minister of finances used his to evade taxes, so it must be really good! (: 21:54:30 p_l|backup: we, engineers, in Italy, are forced to subscribe pension funds :) 21:55:23 Posterdati: I am, technically, supposed to pay them too, and will too. I am however under no delusions I'll get enough from them to survive a month 21:55:42 pension funds are good, pension funds which you cannot withdraw until the global financial crises make them worthless are less so 21:55:45 there's an option of dying young 21:55:55 p_l|backup: you never know. 21:56:04 you should into the subject of derivates.. 21:56:07 vcxp [~vcxp@204.198.73.30] has joined #lisp 21:56:30 *stassats`* invests in Lisp 21:56:54 prxq: you can extrapolate from current tendencies, though. but you still never _know_, because it looks like nobody does 21:57:22 prxq: you can know enough that the system supposed to pay them is unsustainable *now* and only gets worse 21:57:28 p_l|backup: as a freelance technician it's very hard for me to pay taxes, Too small gains :( 21:58:07 anybody aware of a distributed has table (DHT) implementation in cl 21:58:18 -!- vcxp [~vcxp@204.198.73.30] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:54 Posterdati: technically, the only good way of ensuring you have money for retirement seems to be "become a writer and write well-selling books then invest the money very well and live frugally" 21:58:55 p_l|backup: in germany, people who paid to the state pension fund before ww2 got pensions afterwards. What I want to say is, the future is very unpredictable, and all that logic is not worth that much. 21:59:08 nixnyan, Could you rephrase that? 21:59:23 prxq: sure, I'd get pension... below the poverty limit 21:59:27 -!- jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:32 nixnyan: nope, it'd be nice to see how that'd work out 22:00:10 p_l|backup: I won't get one at all :) 22:00:22 Younder: I'm looking for an implementation of a distributed hash table (DHT) in common lisp 22:00:33 Posterdati: at the moment, I might get some pittance from UK but nothing from my country 22:00:54 p_l|backup: that's why I'm learning Lisp 22:01:01 hehe 22:01:04 ah... "distributed has table" sounded like a cheezburger thing 22:01:04 jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has joined #lisp 22:01:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:18 *p_l|backup* is basing one of his "get moderately wealthy" schemes around Lisp 22:01:44 nixnyan, never heard of one. There is one i Java you can import using the JNI 22:02:40 p_l|backup: interesting... what's the plan? 22:03:05 Younder: I'm aware of a few but I really am looking for a native implementation 22:03:24 p_l|backup: or play the "Big Brother" tv shows 22:03:44 prxq: a way to make webapps for non-techies, with upgrade path that doesn't constrain them 22:04:04 p_l|backup: full of sluts and "never worked before" people :) 22:04:44 pkhuong: I wanted to see if there was any else I'll have to write one. 22:05:15 prxq: are you from Germany? 22:05:20 Posterdati: yes 22:05:29 prxq: you know, various kinds of apps for internal or private use, except that instead of writing half-assed monsters in PHP based on some weird tutorial, they'd get a nice hosted environment with various tools and lisp-based language (a v.simplified variant of CL), with environment also taking care of UI design 22:05:37 prxq: how are jobs there? 22:05:45 prxq: all with the HTML5 bling :) 22:06:25 nixnyan, Yes, I think you will have to roll your own. But please share it! 22:06:51 Posterdati: it depends on the profession, i think. Supposedly companies have trouble finding technical people. I presume the addition of "at the price they want to pay" is necessary 22:07:13 prxq: as here 22:07:13 p_l|backup: sounds interesting. It also sounds idealistic :-) 22:08:07 p_l|backup: that variant, will it have lisp syntax? 22:08:10 prxq: there is some competition already, but the difference is that I'm offering something that can be extended indefinitely (you can access full CL underneath) 22:08:15 p_l|backup: sounds cool 22:08:16 prxq: it will be lisp 22:08:26 hope it works out (: 22:08:33 i do too! 22:08:47 actually, a custom package instead of CL, a custom readtable and some macros 22:08:50 p_l|backup: check out soup.io's relaunch (soon to be announced publicly), btw, they're doing something similar with javascript 22:08:58 -!- daly [~user@dynamic-acs-72-23-235-203.zoominternet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:11 Younder: Sure. Do you have a particular interest in a DHT? 22:09:23 Yes. 22:09:55 p_l|backup: get it out there soon, this is going to become a crowded market, I think (: 22:10:20 Younder: Interested in writing one with me. Lets start a project in GitHub or something. 22:11:23 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:55 I am writing code mostly in ML these days. nixnyan 22:12:09 antifuchs: damn 22:12:15 my hands are full. 22:12:16 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@beting-proceeds.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:17 antifuchs: Ihave no resources to deliver it fast 22:12:20 Younder: ML without camel? 22:12:34 prxq, yes. 22:12:43 antifuchs: my only way was to make it better and better known 22:13:07 p_l|backup: i wouldn't worry. Selling is also important, and you can learn from other peoples mistakes... 22:13:21 p_l|backup: making it is about 20% of the battle (: 22:13:39 antifuchs: yeah 22:13:41 p_l|backup: then you need to engineer network effects so people will actually use it (: 22:14:33 about 90% of your users will start using it, then give up. if you can't figure out why, you're screwed. (: 22:14:53 if it's less than 90%, you're doing something right. if you can't figure out what that is, you're screwed (: 22:15:01 and so on. 22:15:16 nixnyan, I might add there is a pretty good implementaion in the book 'The art of concurrent programming' by Herlithy, Shavit 22:16:14 Younder: out of personal choice? 22:16:25 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:42 prxq, yes, it's a good book 22:16:53 I mean ML :-) 22:17:58 antifuchs: yeah. I'm also going to offer (or at least brokerage) building/extending/maintenance of apps on the platform, and I'm targeting mainly non-techie business markets 22:18:05 Younder: 'Is it the art of Multiprocessor Programming' or is it a different one 22:18:31 prxq, Yes, I like ML. And with milton I get efficient code. 22:18:45 antifuchs: the problem is that I'm going with only organic funding (no loans, no credit, no VC) 22:19:07 p_l|backup: IMHO, that's not really a problem (: 22:19:31 nixnyan, that's the name of the book (sorry about the concurrent bit) 22:19:33 if you can survive it, you're in a way better position 22:19:44 antifuchs: ah, it's only a problem for allocating time, cause I can't just throw everything else out :D 22:19:45 also, forces you to get income soon, which is a very very good thing 22:19:46 -!- konr [~user@tramp.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:55 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:12 Younder: Thanks, So hows ML different from CL. What do you like about it? 22:20:20 and you don't have to jump to attention if your investors want stuff done according to their bad ideas about what the product should be 22:21:19 p_l|backup: if you want funding of this type, you will not have trouble finding it. At least, that's the impression I have. Just call it something with double vowels :-) 22:22:22 antifuchs: I was considering some other activity to finance this (cause I'll have to find collaborators sooner or later any way, which would make way for more developement done), like selling stuff for Android (been happy due to the Tablets being soon there, then I heard that 50 devs or so were selected - mainly big names of various kinds - and will be already there because they have a way to test their software...) 22:22:49 prxq: I can't borrow anything because I never borrowed anything, so the only credit they'd give me is horribly high 22:22:59 *highly priced 22:23:13 oh, and I'm not a resident according to them anyway 22:23:55 I can deal with the residency bit, but I don't care about financing with 50% interest 22:24:10 Might go for HackFwd sometime later, though 22:24:29 a resident? 22:24:31 they have nice rules, but they require something that can be shown to them first and got strict rules regarding submission 22:24:34 prxq: UK residency 22:24:45 aka "been living there for some time" 22:24:54 nixnyan, Actually it's been around for a long time. I first encountered it during a course in verifiable programming in the 80's. I use Isabelle, a program verifying system. So I alrady knew it. Now I aam writing some code that also needs to be able to verify programs so it was a neet fit. 22:25:17 p_l|backup: ah 22:26:01 neet? Not in Education, Employment or Training? ;) 22:26:04 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:26:05 nixnyan, and with milton I get code that is almost as efficient as C. 22:26:40 Younder: have you measured how many times slower it is? 22:26:40 little miracles of global data flow analysis 22:27:10 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:17 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-251.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:28:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:26 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:29:06 Younder: Reading about it (Meta Language) hmm. 22:29:07 -!- splittist [~John@234-128.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:29:49 rien, milton beat OCaml in a language shoot-out. It is in fourth place in efficiency just after ADA. (C is second after D) 22:30:01 antifuchs: anyway, the idea was to include a nice IDE, and everything running from the browser with optional client to be downloaded (the client would simply package a browser, some extra APIs that aren't universally there yet etc.) 22:30:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.205] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:31:10 Younder: C is second after D, and ada is after C? 22:31:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:31:18 where is fortran? 22:31:24 prxq, yes 22:31:36 sounds weird 22:31:39 prxq: somewhere up kicking the shit out of any numeric code 22:31:43 prxq, third 22:31:56 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:23 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-98-207-157-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:33:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:47 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 22:34:00 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:02 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:17 -!- orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:24 *p_l|backup* suddenly recalls that any start-up plans have to deal with his ongoing therapy... 22:34:27 dammit 22:34:50 -!- vert2_ [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bfurvfrrowvmrncr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:55 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:21 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:46 orivej [~orivej@95-24-190-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:37:31 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B025FEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 22:37:54 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:37 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:09 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:43:20 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3d9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:44:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:50:14 -!- guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wacjwszcqmhvjuio] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:51:07 -!- hazon [~hazon@host146-241-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:45 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-225.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:54:28 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:39 Younder: Does ML have a JIT and a dynamic runtime? 22:56:28 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:57:43 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:41 nixnyan: ML afaik was more of the "heavily static" languages 22:58:48 (like Haskell) 22:59:24 gonzojive [~red@171.66.89.84] has joined #lisp 22:59:41 vser [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:59:52 -!- vser is now known as Landr 23:00:18 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:01:40 -!- rgov [~rgov@128.213.33.222] has left #lisp 23:01:42 p_l|backup: got it. I guess cl cannot just be ranked based on speed... 23:04:26 adamvh_ [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:17 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:14 silenius [~silenus@p4FC232CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:21 p_l|backup: well, monetization plans sound good (: 23:06:41 nixnyan, I use PolyML in emacs for development. That is dynamic. Then compile the result in milton for speed. 23:06:46 p_l|backup: funny thing is, I have a friend who started iphone app development to fund his web-based projects, and then made enough money to get him rich (: 23:06:57 he's making iphone apps pretty exclusively now (: 23:07:10 so whatever works for you and makes you money, keep at it (: 23:07:14 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:14 -!- adamvh_ is now known as adamvh 23:08:40 antifuchs: heh, if I only the big window of opportunity at the moment wasn't so assholish :D 23:08:50 (at least in Android dev.) 23:08:59 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:00 -!- tvaalen [~r@terminal.se] has quit [Changing host] 23:09:01 tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has joined #lisp 23:09:32 p_l|backup: point is, whatever success you have, no matter how small, make it bigger (: 23:09:37 and I doubt I can expect Motorola to give me a dev unit even if I was willing to pay :D 23:09:40 true 23:09:57 analytics help a lot (especially in web dev) 23:10:04 so do as much of that as you possibly can 23:10:04 it's just that there's this awesome chance, but I can't do tests of my software or even run it 23:10:18 a/b tests, multivalent tests, do it all on the first launch 23:10:26 better to have one more metric than one more feature at launch (: 23:10:37 hehe 23:10:47 sounds like common wisdom, but it's true 23:11:08 I've worked on way too many projects where a/b testing was "right around the corner" or "we really have to do it /one day/" 23:11:32 *silenius* would sign off the "launch[!]" only for shots at the market 23:11:35 so many wasted opportunities for growth, it's sad 23:11:35 What happened to worse is better'? antifuchs 23:11:44 mascotte_ [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-225.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:11:52 Younder: sure, worse is better, but then you have to improve 23:12:01 antifuchs: in my case, I can't even do some basic testing because the only people with hw to test are either some celebs or big names 23:12:16 and if you don't know /how/ to improve (or what improvement actually is), you're screwed (: 23:12:26 In the microsoft netscape war getting first to the marked was everything. 23:12:48 yeah, the big desktop software battles of the 90s should be a measure from everything now on 23:12:53 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:08 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-133-222.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:13:12 -!- mascotte_ [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-225.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:24 Grazl [~Grazl@11.Red-79-150-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:26 So testing took second place. It creates crappy code. But sometimes what matters is to get there first. 23:14:12 Younder: cool, thanks :) 23:15:10 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-225.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:18 antifuchs: it's kinda the position most android devs are in regards to the shiny new honeycomb - they can write the apps, but they can't do UI or A/B testing. At best, you can check if you don't have bugs in UI. 23:16:00 p_l|backup: I guess this is part of the reason why my friend's iphone apps were so successful. they work very well, ui-wise (: 23:16:08 he spent a lot of time refining them until they were perfect 23:16:51 antifuchs: heh. If Android used the same scheme as iOS simulator, I wouldn't be complaining about A/B testing 23:17:08 (iOS simulator is actually iOS compiled as an user-space program for OSX) 23:17:24 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:18:46 yeah 23:19:20 anyway, any peek you can get into what your users are doing, how they're using your software is valuable. better to not miss out on that, than to implement one more feature 23:19:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:20:49 -!- jweiss__ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:22:34 antifuchs: that's why I am going to integrate analytics 23:26:12 good good 23:26:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-251.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:08 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:38 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:02 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-076-096.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:04 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 23:35:06 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:39:07 Why do so many libraries prefer to work with filenames than streams? 23:40:28 This time cl-pdf. It has read-png-file and read-jpeg-file which do nothing to the first argument (filename) except immediately creating a stream on it. 23:42:25 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 23:42:30 naryl: actually, file-streams are pathname designators (: 23:42:36 so you can pass them to with-open-file (: 23:42:50 (as the filespec) 23:42:57 antifuchs: But they don't get /read/ when you do that, and that doesn't help for gray streams or network streams. 23:43:16 And, yes, I could see either being useful for the particular case of cl-pdf. 23:43:16 oO 23:43:20 yeah, they have to be streams associated with files 23:43:25 that's true 23:43:47 being able to handle general streams > being able to handle file names only 23:44:01 does cl-pdf do seeking in files? 23:44:01 So, it's a poor-quality interface, likely brought about by the author not considering additional possible use-cases. 23:44:14 pdf being what it is, it might have to do that 23:44:28 (can't seek on a socket stream) 23:44:38 That's an almost-fair point, but doesn't invalidate the gray-stream argument. 23:44:45 true 23:44:57 anyway. yeah, looks like a bug. kick the author in the groin! 23:45:16 antifuchs: no, no seeks in jpeg, png *or* pdf code 23:45:26 heh 23:45:31 then that's a stupid bug. kick harder. 23:45:49 Good morning everyone! 23:46:01 And a happy new (lunar) year! 23:46:02 (am barely coherent. need less caffeine!) 23:46:14 oh yeah, happy lunar new year, beach. 23:46:29 leifw [~leif@ool-18bac6ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:33 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:46:41 keyvan [~nox@ip68-5-13-232.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:59 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:02 hello 23:47:27 Hello keyvan. 23:48:04 beach: I am ready to dive into lisp, but it's not clear to me what to download, what executable to run, etc. 23:48:36 keyvan: The first choice you need to make is to pick an implementation that correcponds to your needs. 23:48:40 I've been given a task... to use only car, cdr, cons (new things to me), comparison operators, and if/then, to implement the functions list, length, and reverse :) 23:48:48 err. last* 23:49:00 Oh, homework! Sorry to hear that! 23:49:07 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:49:25 Haha, no its not homework. I am actually avoiding homework right now. It's just a task given to me by someone in IRC in another channel. crazy functional programming guy 23:49:35 I'm a rubyist by trade, i guess you can say. 23:49:44 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:49:47 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC232CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:56 keyvan: So you want to learn Lisp? Good plan! 23:50:08 keyvan: What platform are you planning to work on? 23:50:17 beach: yes.. I feel like I can do some amazing stuff with it that I can't with Ruby, for instance. 23:50:43 beach: I have a mac, and I use windows and linux on this machine. Doesn't matter. Linux 23:50:49 Linux, ubuntu. 23:51:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-230-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:44 beach: this is what got me hooked: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html 23:52:56 It made me start thinking about data and code being the same thing, in a way. 23:52:58 keyvan: [I am counting on other #lisp members to help me here] Then most people here would probably suggest SBCL as the implementation, or alternatively CLISP. Don't use apt-get to install SBCL. 23:52:58 23:53:03 which i never thought before 23:53:14 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:30 -!- drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:40 Okay i'll google sbcl 23:53:50 keyvan: sbcl.org 23:54:18 nice its interactive 1 23:54:35 i love languages like that. I thought lisp was compiled, how can it be interactive? 23:54:45 keyvan: Next, you need to choose a development environment. Here, there is only one reasonable choice: Emacs with SLIME. 23:54:57 keyvan: It compiles as you type. 23:55:00 Why is that the one reasonable choice, you are kidding, right ? :P 23:55:31 Emacs I have never used, I've used VIM. and I use Gedit most of the time for long stretches of coding in ruby/rails 23:55:36 keyvan: Not kidding, no. SLIME beats pretty much everything else out there, unless you prefer a commercial implementation. 23:55:43 keyvan: there's a bunch of recent tutorials on how to get started using lisp on different OSes! 23:55:45 Googling SLIME 23:55:52 check out http://xach.livejournal.com/283496.html 23:55:53 keyvan: interactive development with compiled code is fun. Try DISASSEMBLE ;) 23:56:01 minion: tell keyvan about SLIME 23:56:01 keyvan: please see SLIME: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/SLIME 23:56:32 antifuchs nice! thank you 23:56:42 (the linux one seems to be down! boo!) 23:56:46 keyvan: Emacs, you install with apt-get, but everything else, including SLIME, these days we would recommend quicklisp. 23:56:57 minion: Please tell keyvan about Quicklisp. 23:56:57 keyvan: please look at Quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/Quicklisp 23:57:22 nice minion... 23:57:31 crazy lisp AI stuff in action i suppose. 23:57:41 haha, more like text pattern matching (: 23:57:43 minion: Tell keyvan about Lisp. 23:57:43 minion: are you a bot? 23:57:44 keyvan: please see Lisp: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 23:57:44 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 23:58:00 hahaha :D 23:58:38 Bah, didn't minion use to distinguish between Lisp and LiSP? 23:59:17 keyvan: Ignore the last reference minion gave you for the next few years. 23:59:20 okay i need to catch up with some reading and then i will surely be back with more questions. thanks so much beach antifuchs naryl minion text match this 23:59:30 (-: 23:59:31 keyvan: Anytime!