00:00:27 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.200.172] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:05:43 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:05:50 nddrylliog [~ndd@dhcp-83-219-106-130.customers.tvtnet.ch] has joined #lisp 00:06:16 -!- nddrylliog [~ndd@dhcp-83-219-106-130.customers.tvtnet.ch] has left #lisp 00:07:59 -!- paul0 [~user@187.112.89.201] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:09:11 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 00:10:12 -!- kwabbles [~kwabbles@bloodyhead.wavesnake.com] has quit [Quit: kwabbles has no reason] 00:11:06 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 00:12:00 -!- kaelol [~b@c-f0cbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:14:02 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:07 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:55 M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.236.244.133] has joined #lisp 00:15:39 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Client Quit] 00:16:00 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:14 -!- mynameis [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 00:16:27 Hi [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:47 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:53 -!- Hi is now known as Guest96617 00:17:18 -!- Guest96617 is now known as mynameis 00:18:10 Fare: you enjoying work at ITA? 00:18:33 maybe that's too personal, sorry 00:22:35 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:45 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:24:13 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:30 huangho [~vitor@201-34-97-65.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:24:30 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-080-092.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:08 tirinim. 00:25:12 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:28:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 00:29:37 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:03 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:33:49 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 00:34:27 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:34:34 felideon|j [~AndChat@32.163.200.40] has joined #lisp 00:35:34 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:50 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 00:40:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:40:36 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:45:10 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:28 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:30 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:46 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:04 -!- dunkyp [~user@2001:0:53aa:64c:43:3fda:4320:fd3e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:22 zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:59:33 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:18 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-184.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:01:36 -!- zmv is now known as nobody 01:01:45 -!- xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:57 -!- nobody is now known as zmv 01:02:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-216-137.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:00 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:03:27 -!- felideon|j [~AndChat@32.163.200.40] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:04:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-151.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:04:24 gonzojive [~red@171.66.94.226] has joined #lisp 01:05:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-184.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:06:31 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:33 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:53 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:08:17 -!- CrazyEddy [~impassabl@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10:08 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 01:17:34 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-34-97-65.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:18:55 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: have to sleep or mom will yell at me (again)] 01:19:05 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:00 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:33 g00dwin [b27c5857@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.124.88.87] has joined #lisp 01:25:12 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:25:25 -!- g00dwin [b27c5857@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.124.88.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:26:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:45 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:33:52 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:36:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:39:27 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:39:35 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:39:35 -!- Lymia [~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@125.78.160.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:40:37 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Grazl] 01:41:51 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:15 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.215.140] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:49:28 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:49:46 Xach: (or anyone else who knows). What version of the TTF file format does zpb-ttf parse? (I might not know the exact question to ask here). I am confused between the Apple specification, the MS specification, the OpenType extension, etc. Also, does it parse the entire contents of the file? 01:49:49 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.94.226] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:54:29 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 01:55:22 pnq [~nick@ACA23D6D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:39 beach: it does not support opentype. it supports both the MS and Apple file format versions. 01:59:04 beach: it lazily loads some stuff. but e.g. if you need one name, it loads all names. 01:59:16 z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 01:59:16 -!- z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has quit [Changing host] 01:59:16 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 02:03:55 Xach: Thanks. Lazy loading is not necessary for me. Files are small these days compared to main memory anyway. Do you parse all the information in the file? 02:04:13 Xach: Like hinting, grid fitting information, etc? 02:04:39 beach: No. I only load metrics, outlines, names, and some other metadata I can't think of at the moment. 02:05:27 Xach: Suppose I need such information. Would you accept additions to zpb-ttf to support those? 02:05:30 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:34 beach: yes. 02:05:49 Xach: Do you have any plans for adding anything yourself? 02:06:05 [I guess you are busy with quicklisp, these days] 02:06:07 beach: I don't have the time or interest right now. 02:06:13 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:06:26 Xach: OK, I think I have the full picture now. Thanks for taking the time. 02:07:28 I wish I could say that money would change that, but it would only change the interest, not the time. 02:07:41 Xach: Yes, I understand. 02:08:04 -!- simontwo [~simon@78.129.201.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:08:08 simontwo [~simon@78.129.201.122] has joined #lisp 02:08:23 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 02:08:25 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:09:18 Xach: Do you happen to know whether OpenType is backward compatible with TrueType so that if zpb-ttf were extended to handle OpenType, that would not break anything existing? 02:10:13 beach: i looked into it at one point, and some opentype files are like encapsulated truetype files, but others are like encapsulated Type1 files, I think. 02:10:34 OK, thanks! 02:12:11 -!- younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:14:15 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:45 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 02:20:33 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:09 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:03 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:31:52 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: o/] 02:33:07 -!- pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-74-68-129-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:33:49 wanderingelf [4817e03d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.61] has joined #lisp 02:39:28 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.99.177] has joined #lisp 02:45:40 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:47:07 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:47:16 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-46-14.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:27 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-91.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:08 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:27 beach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenType#Description 03:10:10 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:29 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:11:51 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:13 adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:06 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:16 ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:19:37 In SBCL's source, I assume lisp is built up on as SB!IMPL core of some sort, built outwards in lisp. But wondering, in source files such as symbol.lisp, say the defun of symbol-value that directly calls symbol-value, what's the mechanism used there to make (defun symbol-value (symbol) (symbol-value symbol)) work rather than be recursive? Is defun defined as something else? 03:27:42 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:28:09 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:16 ASau [~user@95-27-147-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:29:22 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:33:27 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-mwdvibnzvmsqjiia] has joined #lisp 03:33:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-mwdvibnzvmsqjiia] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:34:23 CrazyEddy [~manwise@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:35:44 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:38:47 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:16 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:37 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:24 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:02 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:31 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:42 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:52:16 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:35 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:14 Modius: the compiler knows how to expand symbol-value into code 03:55:29 so the defun is there just so you can apply it as a function as well 03:56:55 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 03:57:46 -!- drafael [~tapio@mail.faulkner.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:01:40 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:05:44 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:05:49 pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-74-68-129-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:41 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.18] has joined #lisp 04:12:27 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:37 c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has joined #lisp 04:15:21 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:15:43 adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:20 yay, next CCL should work in 32bit mode on 64bit windows :) 04:21:13 mathrick: Thanks! I'll look into it! I found the spec on the MS site too. 04:22:16 p_l|backup: why is that good? 04:22:20 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:25:04 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:27:35 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:52 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:12 <_3b> slyrus: makes it a lot easier to use 32bit libs if nothing else 04:30:16 slyrus: there's more and more 64bit windows installed, and previously if you wanted to distribute your application made with CCL on windows, you had to distribute two versions - one 32bit and the other 64bit. You were, of course, screwed if you wanted to link witha 32bit-only lib :D 04:30:27 (well, youcould sidestep that with COM...) 04:31:15 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:35:58 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-78-193.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:18 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-78-193.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:37:31 oconnore [~eric@ip68-230-164-105.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:57 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:42:50 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:44:22 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:46:18 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 04:46:46 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@pool-71-179-82-48.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 04:48:04 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:52:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:54:27 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:55:56 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:26 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:58:40 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 05:01:48 mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:14 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@122.236.244.133] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 05:06:17 symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:39 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:09:22 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:00 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:11:01 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:49 -!- c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:21:31 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:26:55 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:28:39 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-78-193.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:58 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:23 M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.246.86] has joined #lisp 05:32:37 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:57 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:34:26 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:37:36 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:37:41 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:44:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:48:05 sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:51 -!- mathguru123 [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:51:00 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:18 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 05:56:12 katesmith__ [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:33 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:57:04 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:58:46 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:37 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:03 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:15 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:05:05 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:05:28 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:07:55 sluggo_ [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:57 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:03 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 06:09:17 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.99.177] has quit [Quit: ] 06:09:27 -!- sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:36 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:39 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ff693.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:39 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:13:37 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-14-100.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:59 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:16:37 -!- Atomsk [~ace4016@adsl-32-14-100.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16:40 nostoi [~nostoi@219.Red-81-34-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:56 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kusyglcpgrwlzekr] has joined #lisp 06:18:40 -!- Brodgimar [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/brodgimar] has quit [] 06:19:47 gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:24 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:28:30 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:01 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 06:33:10 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 06:37:53 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:38:12 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:42 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 06:41:43 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-131-235.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:41:49 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:45:04 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:45:23 hello liispers 06:45:26 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:45:50 I wonder why sometime my keyboard dups chars 06:47:42 hello kiuma 06:50:10 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:50:38 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:50:56 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23D6D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:51:17 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:50 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-230-164-105.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:40 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:55:56 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@219.Red-81-34-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:57:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-138.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02:02 beach, hello 07:03:59 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:04:21 I've nearly finished with a modification to Xach's quickproject program (Xach are you awake ? ), can you help me please ? the function I'm calling terminates with "compilation unit aborted", I'm not practice with restarts 07:05:48 beach http://paste.lisp.org/display/119240 07:06:01 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 07:06:18 why do I have "compilation unit aborted" ? 07:06:30 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:09:31 Good morning. 07:09:43 -!- pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-74-68-129-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:09:43 mao`s [mao@lost.my.eye.rs] has joined #lisp 07:10:44 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:11:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:12:39 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:53 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:35 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:16:21 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:16:57 <_3b> kiuma: why is that a macro, and what did you expect it to do? 07:19:25 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:19:25 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:25 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:24:03 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:31:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:24 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:33:03 is there a function that does the same thing than (format nil "~A" foo) ? 07:33:55 <_3b> clhs princ-to-string 07:33:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_to_.htm 07:34:03 *_3b* isn't sure it is exactly the same though 07:35:03 seems to do the right thing 07:35:04 thank you 07:36:40 _3b, a good coffee has saned my mind :), I don't need a macro because a funtion fits well, and I think I need an hadler-case instead of a restart-case. I want the function to create all files and directories missing defined in a system 07:37:20 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:37:30 good morning 07:37:56 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:38:03 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:38:35 beach, hello, you still there? 07:42:59 _3b, how do I test equality between two pathnames ? 07:44:12 clhs equal 07:44:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_equal.htm 07:44:17 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 07:44:36 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:44:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:45:42 ope I missed :test #'equal to find 07:48:38 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:49:22 <_3b> are green flet frames in sldb actually restartable on sbcl? 07:54:08 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:58 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 07:56:27 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:59:05 Deesl [~bsdboy@2001:470:f96b:0:9227:e4ff:fefa:e9b9] has joined #lisp 07:59:13 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@2001:470:f96b:0:9227:e4ff:fefa:e9b9] has quit [Changing host] 07:59:13 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 08:00:29 ok, now system generator works 08:00:58 another question: is thare a way to get home pathname in sbcl ? 08:01:16 user-homedir-pathname 08:01:54 clhs user-homedir-pathname 08:01:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_user_h.htm 08:02:31 thx jdz 08:02:47 I'm near to have an interactive project builder :) 08:03:39 <_3b> looks like sbcl debugger can't restart it either, so at least it isn't slime's fault 08:05:09 <_3b> though i guess it could be smart enough to not make it green in that case 08:05:44 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:48 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 08:08:09 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 08:09:03 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:09:38 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:30 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:47 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.98.149] has joined #lisp 08:15:58 <_3b> are green flet frames in sldb actually restartable on sbcl? <-- why not? Green ones are the one with full debug info 08:16:02 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 *ones 08:16:36 <_3b> mathrick: because slime/sbcl doesn't know how to call them apparently 08:17:11 but you can still step through them and see their locals etc., no? 08:17:28 <_3b> no idea, didn't try that 08:19:21 that's what green frames mean, I've never associated that with restartability 08:19:54 _3b: what's the slime shortcut to restart a frame? 08:20:02 <_3b> r 08:20:57 splittist [~John@141-84.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:21:01 morning 08:22:02 does anybody know a place to find open source license templates for lisp projects, I currently use licenses like this http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/claw/claw.git;a=blob_plain;f=claw-as/claw-as.asd;hb=master 08:22:33 but I'd like to have the possibility to choose among others 08:22:37 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:23:20 <_3b> can't find anything about it in the docs, but green frames are using 'sldb-restartable-frame-line-face' so i assume greem means restartable 08:25:16 _3b: oh cool, I didn't know it was supported. It wasn't before 08:25:39 in SBCL I mean 08:26:30 _3b: I dunno about the name, but it was always obvious to me that green meant full debug info 08:26:55 kiuma: I'm sure if you look through all the libs in quicklisp (or cliki) you could find almost any 'OS' licence under the sun used. What are you trying to achieve? 08:28:28 splittist, I see. My question is: isn't a good practice to put license in every source file ? 08:28:46 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-30-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:47 <_3b> yeah, full debug is the way to get restartable frames, so reasonable assumption 08:30:06 kiuma: I think you could get away with saying 'For licence terms see .asd' in each file, for any likely set of circumstances. 08:30:53 kiuma: the licence in your paste just says, really, mention my name and disclaimer every time you use it. 08:31:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 08:32:04 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-90-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:32:10 ah :), it wasn't my intention to be an all-o-fame :) , maybe I'll change it to something more 'easy' :) 08:33:59 splittist, is it good enought to put a LICENSE file in the project without further mention ? 08:34:46 *enough 08:34:58 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-pplwtrxmmoteekhy] has joined #lisp 08:36:06 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:36:48 kiuma: it depends on what you're trying to achieve, and the set of likely circumstances. If you are trying to protect yourself against litigation, then you have to think about whether you're concerned that CLAW is going to be put in a traffic control system or defibrillator... 08:37:35 orion1010 [~process@ppp118-209-131-29.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:03 splittist: I think the no warranty clause is needed due to USA allowing idiotic lawsuits 08:38:19 I really can't immagine how claw will be used, maybe in a future it will be 08:40:13 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:40:26 but for the pure license question, it concerned the quickproject modification I'm applying, that consists in creating missing resources in a asdf:defsystem. An option would be to let the user decide what to put as comment in a file automatically created 08:41:41 kiuma: I think an interesting comment to include would be 'This file is part of . See LICENCE for licence terms.' 08:43:41 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:46:46 splittist, great ! 08:48:39 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 08:48:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 08:48:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:49:51 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082AD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:17 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326873.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:39 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:02 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:15 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:19 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 08:53:24 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:55:45 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:56:02 snearch [~snearch@f053011248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:58 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 08:58:14 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:05:24 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:05:59 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:07:10 -!- sluggo_ [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 09:07:10 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:01 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:31 -!- H4ns```` is now known as H4ns 09:13:28 <_3b> hmm, arglist display for flet seems a bit broken too, wonder if newer slime would fix it 09:13:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-216-137.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:14:06 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:48 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:23 dared [~dared@hnvr-4dbd239a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:02 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 09:20:54 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:02 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:26 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 09:27:34 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:27:36 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:27:53 can anyone reproduce http://paste.lisp.org/display/119243 ? I'm using sbcl 1.0.29.11.debian so it might be debian or it might just be old 09:28:11 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:30:50 koning_robot: you did not include the exact steps you did to get the error 09:31:35 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:37 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:46 oh, I 'load a file with that source in it, then (in-package :memoize) and then (factorial 5), for instance 09:33:08 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:10 for some reason, in the first recursive call, 'memo is bound to the expansion of the defmemo form, but I never change 'memo after binding it 09:35:24 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:10 do you get any errors or warnings during loading/compiling the file? 09:36:24 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:40 nope 09:37:27 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.211] has joined #lisp 09:37:41 what's the result of macroexpanding the (defmemo factorial ...) form? 09:38:02 tfb [~tfb@92.41.193.156.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:39:53 it's at http://paste.lisp.org/display/119243#2 09:40:04 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:40:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:40:04 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:40:09 umm, the macroexpand-1 that is 09:40:22 well, it looks OK 09:41:03 is there a function to make a pathname relative to anotherone ? or should I code it ? 09:41:05 have you tried loading/running the thing in a clean environment? 09:41:21 clhs enough-namestring 09:41:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 09:41:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:41:38 jdz: yeah, same problem. it works in clisp though 09:43:51 koning_robot: if you evaluate your macroexpansion, does it work? 09:44:14 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-91-168.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:44:37 stassats`: nope 09:45:17 that means your sbcl is too old 09:45:53 i can reproduce on 1.0.23, but not on 1.0.45 09:46:14 ok, guess I'll ditch the debian package then 09:46:55 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:49:17 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:49:19 -!- orion1010 [~process@ppp118-209-131-29.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:49:35 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.58] has joined #lisp 09:50:26 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:21 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:37 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:52 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:24 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:50 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:21 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:09:23 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:28 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:09:39 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:49 -!- merodach [~bagdemir@62.104.226.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:03 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.147.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:41 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.147.92] has joined #lisp 10:12:31 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:32 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E8C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:17:39 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:18:07 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:56 beach` [~user@116.118.3.177] has joined #lisp 10:21:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.192] has quit [Quit: Offline] 10:21:05 -!- beach [~user@116.118.10.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:21:28 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:40 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:30 -!- yonatan_ [~yonatan@93-172-40-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:42 [1]Jar [Jar@75-131-229-209.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:05 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:27:15 <[1]Jar> Grim Quest free mmorpg is looking for team mebers http://grimquest.tk/ to get in on the action! 10:27:16 -!- [1]Jar [Jar@75-131-229-209.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com] has left #lisp 10:30:42 gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:31 -!- dared [~dared@hnvr-4dbd239a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:32:21 dared [~dared@hnvr-4dbd239a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:43 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:58 pnkfelix2 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:21 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:31 Younder [~john@224.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:38:14 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:44 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.192] has joined #lisp 10:46:28 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:31 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 10:46:44 -!- pnkfelix2 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:02 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:30 pnkfelix2 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:03 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:23 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:03 c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has joined #lisp 11:03:09 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:03:13 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:04:07 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:06:54 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 11:09:06 -!- pnkfelix2 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:38 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:40 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:29 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:24 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:13:14 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:33 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:13:44 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 -!- gko [gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:04 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:19:19 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:19:27 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:21:13 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:20 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 11:22:39 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:00 -!- beach` is now known as beach 11:24:25 Blkt [~user@93-33-142-0.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:25:08 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:32 leo2007 [~leo@125.78.160.94] has joined #lisp 11:25:53 Good evening everyone! 11:26:09 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 11:26:35 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:56 morning 11:27:57 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:51 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:29:28 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:29:37 good evening beach! 11:30:13 beach: when do you head back to the Atlantic? 11:31:55 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:33:18 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:34:07 pnkfelix2 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:16 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:35:07 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 11:35:36 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:36:16 -!- dared [~dared@hnvr-4dbd239a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:00 splittist: End of June. 11:38:07 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:56 beach: sounds about just the right time. 11:39:32 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:58 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:41:59 zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 11:42:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:42:37 -!- c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:17 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:17 -!- pnkfelix2 [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:38 xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:25 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:00:51 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01:26 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 12:03:46 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:06:50 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-91-45.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:10:15 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:11:32 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:13:17 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:25 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:13:29 c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has joined #lisp 12:15:10 splittist: It should be enough to understand about the culture, and not enough to understand as much as to get upset about certain aspects. :) 12:15:34 splittist: And, yes, the right time to turn up in Bordeaux. 12:17:15 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:21:17 -!- CrazyEddy [~manwise@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:57 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:46 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-91-45.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:24:02 beach, can I speak to you in private? 12:24:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:25:38 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 12:26:29 CrazyEddy [~promodera@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:28:40 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:29:07 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.214.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:31:17 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:08 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:52 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.226] has joined #lisp 12:39:27 could anyone explain me where does a programmatically defined function resides in CL's memory model? 12:39:41 reside* 12:40:24 what is "programmatically defined function" and what is "CL's memory model"? 12:40:59 with "programmatically defined" I mean something generated by a program 12:41:18 Blkt, CL has a compiler available at run-time. 12:41:21 a lambda expression defined via, for example, genetic programming 12:41:32 all functions are generated by a program, even if that's the builtin READ + EVAL or COMPILE 12:41:43 Blkt: is it any different than the one written by a human? 12:41:52 no, it is not 12:42:14 but I thought memory was sliced in three parts: code, stack, heap 12:43:00 Blkt, in I was forced to use these terms, I'd say that there's no code memory, and that code resides in heap. 12:43:01 so something generated by a program could not reside in the code part 12:43:09 Blkt, if I was forced to use these terms, I'd say that there's no code memory, and that code resides in heap. 12:43:18 exactly what I needed to know 12:43:20 thank you 12:43:21 CL has no memory model 12:43:26 Blkt: that's sometimes arranged as the default, but not mandatory 12:43:39 it is possible to mark a page as executable and/or read-only 12:43:59 (this is a statement about common OSes, not about lisp) 12:44:05 Blkt, but that's really an implementation detail -- CL doesn't mandate where an implementation stores things. 12:44:07 deepfire: Sure. 12:44:25 deepfire: I see 12:44:30 Blkt: its just stack and heap, not code stack and heap. 12:44:41 nice 12:44:53 Blkt: even in C you can load functions on runtime on most platforms. 12:45:18 function pointers? 12:45:58 Blkt: see dlopen(3) and http://uxul.wordpress.com/2008/10/05/urandom-execute/ 12:47:22 Blkt: well, in theory, you can do what ECL does (i think): compile a function into a dll and then load this compiled dll via dlload(3). however, sbcl does this in a direct way rather than calling an external compiler I think. 12:48:10 Blkt: and every JIT-Compiler should do this. 12:48:22 Blkt: like llvm or the jvm 12:48:38 I see 12:48:54 thanks a lot for the infos 12:48:56 self-modifying code is fun 12:51:08 stassats`: but its hard to apply formal methods to it. 12:51:35 though not impossible 12:51:41 who cares about formal methods 12:51:44 <|3b|> self-modifying formal methods? 12:52:07 the code should be hard to write, hard to read and hard to reason about 12:52:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:12 stassats`: sounds like haskell. though, haskell allows formal methods ^^ 12:53:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:00 any language you're not proficient with is hard, so you should regularly switch languages 12:54:00 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:34 let's say than that haskell is complex 12:55:03 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:24 hm. well, I have a question too: does anybody know a good example of the usage of continuations without states (or state-monads)? 12:55:31 mvilleneuve: Around? 12:56:40 well, it should be a good example, where - in the best case - it is easier to use continuations to write it. 12:56:43 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 12:57:05 schoppenhauer: I know nothing about what those terms mean in computer science, but if there is no state, how is anything 'continuing'? 12:57:06 web? 12:57:17 splittist: no explicit state? 12:57:41 pure function calls have state too, through parameters 12:57:47 splittist: no explicit states 12:57:55 referential transparency 12:58:28 so functional programming is just another buzz-word, in reality 12:58:29 i.e. the same function with equal arguments always returns the same result 12:58:57 stassats`: functional programming has its advantages 12:58:59 Beetny` [~Beetny@mail.zaptechnology.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:25 how do I create a symlink in common-lisp ? 12:59:28 kool-aid too has advantages 12:59:35 kiuma: no way 12:59:42 pity 12:59:43 kiuma: common lisp does no know anything about symbolic links 12:59:52 stassats`: in the end, all of computer science is about paying for laziness with computer power ... 12:59:52 kiuma: symbolic links are a non-portable unixism 13:00:01 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.246.86] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 13:00:12 but then How does asdf ? 13:00:18 Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:20 -!- katesmith__ [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:21 kiuma: in a non-portable way 13:00:26 asdf doesn't care about symlinks either 13:00:37 kiuma: most cl-implementations have a unix-interface when run on unix 13:00:46 clhs truename 13:00:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tn.htm 13:00:47 kiuma: sbcl has sb-posix, for example 13:00:51 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 13:00:55 schoppenhauer, I'm extending quickproject 13:00:56 truename resolves symlinks 13:01:10 ahh true name 13:01:28 mmm... 13:01:31 stassats`: anyway, what wasnt clear about my question? 13:01:43 ASDF2 brings source-registry, which allows to drop symlink usage 13:01:44 schoppenhauer: which one? 13:01:48 kiuma: if you care about portability, it is best to avoid symlinks anyway. 13:01:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-77-24.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:01:57 -!- Beetny_ is now known as Beetny 13:02:01 stassats`: example of usage of a continuation without explicit states or state monads 13:02:06 for now I'll print out and advise to the user to creade a symlink 13:02:22 *create 13:02:24 kiuma: to do what? 13:02:49 i'm not trying to answer any questions, i'm just trying to confuse enough so that the question will become meaningless 13:03:06 the question wont become meaningless to me ^^ 13:03:12 i need such an example 13:03:25 then i didn't try hard to confuse you 13:03:37 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@mail.zaptechnology.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:03:45 and my question is not really about functional programming. 13:04:14 well, didn't my answer "web" satisfy you? 13:04:17 Xach's quickproject creates a project, I wanted to create the symlink from lisp code, but given the portability problems I'll only advise the user to create the link 13:04:21 anyway, functions without side-effects have a lot of advantages, and thats what functional programming is about at last. 13:04:26 stassats`: what does "web" mean? 13:04:45 kiuma: why do you need to create a symbolic link in the first place? 13:05:03 kiuma: you can always make a case-distinction on whether you are on a unix or not 13:05:04 schoppenhauer: the thing spiders weave 13:05:20 stassats`: how is it related to continuations? 13:05:21 schoppenhauer: cl-cont doesn't look like it requires you to pass state around, but I don't know if that's what you mean 13:05:26 schoppenhauer: I think stassats` meant "ask the fucking google" or something, though in a very polite fashion 13:05:28 just to make permanent a newly defined system 13:05:40 sorry, i'm just fooling around 13:06:05 Web is the greatest invention of humankind 13:06:07 *|3b|* interpreted it as referring to web frameworks being the main users of continuations (with or without state) in CL land 13:06:13 continuations are used in web programming often to get state on top of a stateless protocol 13:06:14 kiuma: ah. well, you are aware of the fact that you can also put the directory where the system resides onto the asdf:*central-registry* list, right? 13:06:26 schoppenhauer, yes coul be, even because I hate windows and I like to make life harder to windows users whenever possible 13:06:45 schoppenhauer: do you need that example in Lisp? 13:06:56 H4ns, yes and it's what is already done in the project 13:07:22 kiuma: ah. okay. you hate windows and want to make windows user's life miserable. thank you. 13:07:27 quickproject 13:07:27 koning_robot: yes, cl/cont is ok. its just, that most examples that use continuations use an explicit state. for example, creating a queue with continuations always needs the queue... 13:07:40 Blkt: no. just an example. 13:07:47 H4ns, are you a windows user ? 13:07:48 kiuma: thats the spirit! 13:08:02 kiuma: indeed. i am a windows, a mac, a freebsd and a linux user. 13:08:09 I'm using a bit of revenge 13:08:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:15 schoppenhauer: ah, so you want continuations to be self-contained objects 13:08:20 <|3b|> schoppenhauer: oh you mean no state to store the continuations? 13:09:01 |3b|: yes. I mean an example where continuations and/or call-cc is used, but besides that, no stateful object is used. 13:09:28 kiuma: 1. There are other ways of ASDF2 finding a system (dozens, it seems) 2. please don't make quickproject less use to me. 13:09:36 H4ns, only because I think you need to test also IExploder 13:09:45 <|3b|> schoppenhauer: might be better asking in #scheme 13:09:47 kiuma: not at all. 13:09:52 |3b|: ok. 13:09:53 ok 13:10:16 *|3b|* seems to remember seeing some interesting uses of call/cc stuff in papers, but doesn't remember any details 13:10:52 splittist, thx for the advice, I was stopped at asdf 1. It worth to take a small breack and see what asdf 2 offer 13:11:44 *stassats`* tests 2.2250738585072012d-308 bug on ABCL, it hangs too 13:12:09 sorry for last sentence, I look like a troglodyte from it :) 13:12:39 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:06 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:58 Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:59 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9EFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:05 -!- c|mell [~cmell@175.106.61.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:24 I'm pondering whether to go to ELS. 13:17:46 Not much is known about the programme though. 13:17:54 ohh, ln -s is not recomended wor new asdf users ... 13:18:32 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:19:22 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 kiuma: exactly. It may very well be that the user of quickproject has set up their ASDF so that the new project is automatically found (hanging off, e.g., their .../source/common-lisp/ directory). 13:19:44 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:20:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:22:46 LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:23:00 asdf2 seems very nice 13:28:06 LiamH1 [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:28:06 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:15 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-142-0.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:29:48 -!- LiamH1 [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29:52 LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-105-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:31:56 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:31:59 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:32:11 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:32:17 Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:34:11 oconnore [~eric@ip68-230-164-105.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:05 Bronsa [~brace@host132-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:39:22 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:24 LiamH1 [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:39:50 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 13:40:45 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-105-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:56 -!- LiamH1 is now known as LiamH 13:45:41 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:45:58 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:46:43 Greavers [~root@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:48:16 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 13:48:38 sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-94-166.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 13:48:49 what is a good way to save a stand-alone executable with sbcl these days? 13:49:06 I can't get save-lisp-and-die to work 13:49:47 urandom__ [~user@p548A3304.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:04 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 you need to try harder, unless you're on some exotic platform 13:51:10 osx 10.7 13:51:12 osx 10.6 13:51:32 how do you use save-lisp-and-die? 13:51:34 yvdriess: I use save-lisp-and-die a lot. What trouble do you have? 13:51:48 even just doing this: (save-lisp-and-die "test" :executable t :toplevel #'(lambda (args) (print args))) 13:52:00 gets me corrupt memories and halts 13:52:50 it dies and saves the executable allright 13:53:15 s/allright/alright 13:54:16 toplevel shouldn't have any parameters 13:54:17 executing it leads to a cascade of curruption warnings, stack traces and ending with a primitive halt; party is over 13:55:02 ok that works 13:55:38 -!- Greavers [~root@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 13:56:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:56:34 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 13:56:37 off to figuring out why my original top-level crashed 13:57:26 didn't you figure this out already? 13:57:42 it doesn't have arguments, no 13:57:46 it does do a (read) 13:58:07 well, can you show it? 14:00:33 yvdriess, when I execute sbcl --eval "(save-lisp-and-die \"test\" :executable t :toplevel #'(lambda (args) (print args)))", it provides me with a helpful error message 14:00:53 no need, #'(lambda () (read)) already crashes 14:01:01 hmm 14:01:16 Er, when I launch the test executable, produced by the above command, rather. 14:01:31 yep same here 14:01:38 perhaps swank is the culprit 14:02:14 if it's hasn't much threads, then it shouldn't be 14:02:39 jeekl [~jeff@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 14:03:14 just the one 14:03:35 still, it wouldn't hurt to try bare sbcl 14:04:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:06:22 adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:36 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 14:08:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:22 -!- jeekl [~jeff@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:12:04 -!- zmv is now known as we 14:13:29 -!- we is now known as zmv 14:13:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.226] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:15:31 jeekl [~jeff@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 14:19:51 -!- hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:57 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:22:25 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:32 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-134-55.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:25 indeed, the barebones works 14:25:31 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.226] has joined #lisp 14:25:44 unsure if it's caused by swank or something in my sbclrc 14:26:04 hm no, sbclrc gets loaded anyhow 14:27:33 thanks, that solved it 14:31:23 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:34 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:31 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:35:02 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:35:19 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:34 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:01 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:37:00 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:04 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has joined #lisp 14:39:14 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:23 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3040.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:40:20 fusss [~fusss@120.153.46.133] has joined #lisp 14:41:56 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:42:09 anybody know of a nice matrix/vector #[bracket-syntax] reader for GSLL, or do I savor the moment and write one? :-) 14:42:33 I have seen a package with some custom syntaxes, that's supposed to be used with other libs 14:42:44 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 14:43:42 what would be nice about such a syntax? 14:43:46 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:44:03 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:44:25 Matlisp hacks the reader to support [1 2; 3 4] 14:44:26 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 14:44:35 "hacks" 14:44:44 fusss: we have hu.dwim.syntax-sugar that helps defining custom syntaxes and making C-cC-c work in slime 14:44:46 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 14:45:49 Xach: What? 14:46:04 thanks all 14:46:15 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:23 anyone else having been pleasantly surprised by how purty GSLL is? me like! 14:47:26 rtoym: Does it go above and beyond setting a macro character? I guess that seems like a hack in the sense that defining a function is hacking CL . 14:47:28 one of the best thought out FFIs out there; I liked the part where _memcpy has two sensible names, based on whether it creates the destination if non-existent or not. 14:47:54 panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:48:03 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:48:29 Xach: Yeah, I think it just sets the macro character(s) with the appropriate functions. 14:48:40 benny [~benny@i577A2CB1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:40 Xach: no, defining a macro is a hack 14:49:18 *Xach* gets to hacking 14:49:43 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.193.156.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 14:50:49 I see leet-speaking is seeping into the chan title ;-) 14:51:06 s/speaking/speak/ 14:51:57 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:52:37 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:48 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 14:55:03 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:29 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:58:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:21 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:01:30 cibs [~cibs@Sylpheed.Math.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.246.86] has joined #lisp 15:06:22 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host132-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:06:58 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:32 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-94-166.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:09:05 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 15:11:26 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:53 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:01 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 15:12:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:12:20 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 15:16:44 So, in the avant-garde world of documentation set by setf-documentation rather than in docstrings, where does one put the setf-documentation forms? 15:17:59 splittist: In a file that is specific to the language in question. 15:19:24 beach: so you might have a docstrings/ directory with docstrings-en.lisp, docstrings-fr.lisp etc.? 15:20:16 beach: or docstrings/en/foo.lisp, bar.lisp for the foo and bar 'modules'? 15:20:53 -!- M-sprite [~M-sprite@60.183.246.86] has quit [Quit: I need to code or sleep now .] 15:20:55 That's not (exactly) how clisp and cmucl would do it. The translations are in a po file. 15:21:15 (this is getting like the XDG configuration directories...) 15:22:14 But I guess the po files are arranged that way, more or less. 15:23:29 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:49 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:26 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:27:09 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:31 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:06 -!- icbh [~icbh@ntszok033003.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:56 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:20 is setf-documentation the same thing as (setf documentation) or some kind of external utility? 15:38:24 fusss: same thing. I was saving one keystroke at the expense of clarity, not a good tradeoff. 15:38:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:38:48 splittist: no worries 15:38:59 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 15:39:19 I think i18n is not the most pressing issue for Lisp documentation, which has an existential problem ;-) 15:40:07 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:26 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-148-200.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:36 serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has joined #lisp 15:45:39 G'morning all. 15:45:42 Hello! 15:45:45 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3304.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:05 csamuelson [~user@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.226] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:47:49 hi nyef 15:47:51 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:04 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:48:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:09 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:51:57 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:53:16 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kusyglcpgrwlzekr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:07 icbh [~icbh@ntszok054022.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:59:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2CB1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:59:27 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:48 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.171] has joined #lisp 16:00:53 adu [~ajr@pool-173-73-0-57.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:26 benny [~benny@i577A2CB1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:37 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:29 jnoos4 [jnoos@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:01 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:10:28 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has joined #lisp 16:10:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 16:12:42 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:40 urandom__ [~user@p548A3304.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:51 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:31 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:16:33 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:58 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:18:09 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.226] has joined #lisp 16:18:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.226] has quit [Changing host] 16:18:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:19:13 -!- csamuelson [~user@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:55 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:22:58 -!- jnoos4 [jnoos@183.106.96.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:13 setmeaway1 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 -!- setmeaway1 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:33 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.22] has joined #lisp 16:25:12 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:59 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:26:26 is there a way to 'flush' the standard-input? 16:26:28 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:49 format followed by a (read) displays the format after the read :p 16:27:22 finish-output 16:27:27 force-output too 16:27:38 but figure out the subtleties 16:27:55 But that flushes the standard-output, not the standard-input. 16:28:18 ah ok, part of the streams lib 16:28:24 s/lib/spec 16:29:08 Note also that standard-output in particular tends to be line-buffered, which means that a format that outputs a trailing newline followed by a (read) will typically display the format before the read. 16:29:35 ... And there's also some subtlety involving the notion of "character position" for ~T in such cases. 16:31:01 I was just prefixing input for a REPL, so that's a non-newline terminated format followed by a read :p 16:31:07 thanks 16:32:14 Yeah, /definitely/ mind the output character position for that. 16:32:43 *nyef* wonders if that's an accessor... 16:34:01 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:18 In other news, the sbcl Lisp compiler does not go into an infinite loop when presented with the literal 2.2250738585072012e-308 16:34:35 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:35:29 -!- panike [~nwp@fw.lmcg.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 16:36:18 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:13 I'm surprised no one mentioned `clear-input' 16:38:34 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:36 Probably because the context for the question strongly implied that the question was actually for the output, not the input. 16:39:09 I see 16:39:59 That, and it probably was forgotten. 16:40:15 because I'm an idiot and said standard-input instead of standard-output 16:42:43 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:08 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:02 Why would 2.225e-308 cause a compiler problem? (Besides the fact that that is too small to fit in a single-float.) 16:44:17 rtoym: some java thing in the news this week 16:44:59 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:45:44 http://www.exploringbinary.com/java-hangs-when-converting-2-2250738585072012e-308/ has context. 16:46:02 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:00 yvdriess: you would want d-308 for one. 16:47:19 ABCL is affected 16:47:48 though, sbcl will "hang" with 2.2250738585072012d-100000000 16:47:54 without my patch 16:48:09 2.2250738585072012d-308 works fine in sbcl 16:48:31 hehe indeed that hangs :) 16:48:40 yvdriess: not quite. 16:48:43 stassats`: right. ABCL uses the Java routines to process the input. 16:48:44 it's not actually hangs, it just takes some time 16:48:53 stassats`s example I men 16:48:55 mean 16:49:05 stassats`: that's to be expected then, probably. 16:49:07 time enough to get some coffee 16:49:09 Xach: brucio's blog is now open for business again! 16:49:48 antifuchs: i guess the gc recycled it. 16:49:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:49:51 pkhuong and i constructed a patch so that too large exponent aren't computed, but it's not applied yet 16:49:55 was your patch added to the main, stassats` ? 16:50:29 ah, basically unrelated to the java/php's x87 cause 16:51:12 lp 309070 16:51:12 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/309070 16:52:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52:55 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:53:12 csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:21 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:54:39 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 16:57:13 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.98.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:02 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:59:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.171] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:00:37 csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 xan_ [~xan@69.146.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:01:02 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:15 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:09 32-bit Windows CCL now runs on 64-bit 17:02:53 Yes, I know. :-) 17:03:00 Now how did they do that? I thought they'd been using the ES register to point to TLS and Wow64 ate it during context switches.. 17:03:42 ZabaQ: "they" is rme :D 17:04:27 people with win32 ccl, can you test this: 17:04:29 fe[nl]ix: I am very grateful. 17:04:41 what does this return #+(or :windows :win32) t nil 17:05:15 I can't for he life of me get proper #+conditional results from ccl with slime, but it does work in the shell 17:05:31 nil 17:05:51 but I'm win64 17:06:06 is that in slime? 17:06:23 Yes 17:07:06 well, you'll get #+(and) t nil => NIL 17:07:10 the last form evaluated 17:07:26 T when I M-x run-ccl 17:07:32 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 17:07:34 (Ie just run-lisp) 17:07:43 ZabaQ: CCL on x86 wants to use a segment register to point at thread-local data. We can't use an LDT on win64, so we now use space in the Windows TEB (which is referenced via %fs). This is the same space that TlsAlloc/TlsFree manage. 17:07:57 try (prog1 #+(or :windows :win32) t nil) instead 17:08:10 rme: What does TEB stand for? 17:08:37 see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32_Thread_Information_Block 17:08:42 rme: similar to the 63rd slot hack in the SBCL/win32 fork? 17:09:13 pkhuong: same idea, but ccl uses 34 tls slots instead of just one. 17:09:35 oh, the TEB is the TIB. 17:09:42 does it have to the right indices as well? 17:10:10 yes; we insist on particular indices, and will die if they are not available. 17:10:36 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002d12.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:54 ok, so that seems robust enough for us too (: 17:11:29 ZabaQ: sorry if I'm getting the terminology wrong; I'm kind of a novice Windows hacker. 17:11:33 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:12:02 rme: I think it's just me not having hacked on Windows internals in many moons. 17:14:05 not a thing to complain about 17:18:41 -!- numeromancer [~tschaeffe@dramail.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:32 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:24:53 tcr1: did you get a chance to look at my named-readtables patch yet? 17:25:06 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:26:26 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:53 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 17:30:01 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:30:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:31:33 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:31:34 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:04 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 17:32:39 slyrus: I looked at it but I don't have time for processing :-) 17:32:41 numeromancer [~tschaeffe@dramail.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 caught up in the teclo whirlpool of creativity. 17:33:31 oh, wait, that didn't sound right (: 17:33:54 I wouldn't mind if someone steps up, goes from darcs to git and maintains named-readtables 17:34:58 nixnyan [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:40 Xach: That was interesting. Curiously, cmucl accepts it but the result is a bit off. and is not least-positive-normalized-double-float. 17:35:43 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:52 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 17:37:28 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:38:46 -!- nixnyan [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 17:40:37 Oh, probably because that number is just below least-positive-normalized-double-float. 17:43:04 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-pplwtrxmmoteekhy] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:43:25 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:43:40 cerebral_monkey [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:45 panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:45:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:49:50 mascotte_ [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:53:41 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:54:27 -!- mascotte_ [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-10-193.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:03 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:58:59 jso [~user@wsip-70-164-99-62.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:30 can anybody help me with a restart-case usage please ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/119252 17:59:47 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:48 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002d12.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:49 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:00 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 kiuma: handler-case would make more sense than restart-case. 18:02:41 Xach, this is a sample I need (+ 1 1) to be evaqluated 18:02:49 *evaluated 18:03:14 What do you want to achieve? 18:03:46 That is a very good question. 18:04:32 tcr1, Xach this http://paste.lisp.org/display/119252#1 18:05:06 Xach, it's part of the quick project refactoring I'm doing 18:05:09 kiuma: What do you think restart-case is for? 18:05:29 I would like to help, but I don't know Italian, sorry. 18:06:17 Xach, italian ? 18:06:18 kiuma: Do you want to catch an exception? Do you want to establish a restart? Do you want to invoke a restart? 18:06:54 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.223] has joined #lisp 18:07:13 tcr1, I want to establish a restart I think 18:07:21 and invoke it 18:07:46 kiuma: Restarts are to provide an interface for *other* code, or for a user, to choose the appropriate way to recover from an unexpected situation. 18:07:47 A restart is the thing provided under "Restarts:" in the slime debugger that you can click on 18:08:00 kiuma: It doesn't make sense to write code that both offers and invokes restarts in the same place. 18:08:01 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:27 For what exception do you want to establish a restart for? If the user clicks on it in the debugger, what should happen? 18:08:33 Xach, ah ok 18:08:49 tcr1, for asdf:find-system 18:08:50 pluto12345 [~carcola@unaffiliated/pluto12345] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 kiuma: Did you know that asdf:find-system has an optional second argument? 18:09:15 but then, I think I have to do a handler-case 18:09:20 Xach, no :) 18:09:54 kiuma: You should investigate it. 18:10:02 it's a pretty common idiom 18:10:08 ahh, I feel a bit stupid now :) 18:10:14 find-class has a second argument too, for example 18:10:26 stassats`, thx 18:11:54 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:12:20 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:13:59 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:16:22 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:50 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:16 is there a way to tell asdf to reparse ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ directory ? I've added 99-quicklisp2.conf but it's not directly parsed 18:20:59 kiuma: (asdf:initialize-source-registry) 18:21:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- jeekl [~jeff@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:21:52 ok thank you 18:24:45 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:16 perfect everything works now, I just need only small fixes then tomorrow I'll create a video and show you the upgrade I've done to quickproject 18:25:32 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-216-137.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:25:47 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:13 SuperQuickproject++2.0 Elite Edition 18:26:42 just last thing to think about this evening: is it possible so control emacs speedbar from a slime-connected sbcl instance ? 18:26:47 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-219-209.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:27:10 it would be the cherry on the cake 18:27:50 splittist, LOL 18:28:12 but I think I've done a nice job anyway :P 18:30:00 loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has joined #lisp 18:30:04 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:47 nevermind, I'll think about it tomorrow, I gotta go home 18:30:49 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-157-84.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 cu 18:30:58 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:48 -!- panike [~nwp@cedric.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 18:35:58 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 18:36:33 jikanter [~a@66.146.192.42] has joined #lisp 18:40:41 jeekl [~crz@li272-11.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:41 -!- jeekl [~crz@li272-11.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:41 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 18:43:12 -!- loxs [~loxs@2002:4e5a:7cb3:0:224:d7ff:fe0a:73b4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:01 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:44:30 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-230-164-105.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:05 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-148-22.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:48:06 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.186.255] has joined #lisp 18:48:42 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-157-84.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:06 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-43-225.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:51:01 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:53:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:03 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:07 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:42 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:58:17 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.186.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@69.146.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:04:02 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:05:28 teach me something new, #lisp 19:05:48 Quadrescence: write a compiler 19:06:13 i did that three or four times 19:06:33 Quadrescence: did you target the generated code into something other than CL? 19:06:46 Quadrescence: you've learned enough. Now you get to write something useful :) 19:06:47 bytecode, C 19:07:01 ^ p_l|backup 19:07:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:41 hmmm 19:07:50 dlowe: I can't think of anything useful (and fun) to write. :( 19:08:14 Xach took the cake with quicklisp, just about the only useful thing that could have been coded. 19:08:22 Quadrescence: http://www.highlevelbits.com/2011/01/nonprofitengine-call-for-help.html <--- then help them or take them for inspiration 19:08:43 Quadrescence: lies 19:08:45 Quadrescence: how hard have you tried to think of something? 19:08:46 build a reliable, distributed mesh platform for "normal people" 19:09:05 Quadrescence: write me a postscript interpreter so i can use it as a fake printer driver 19:09:38 dlowe: hard enough to not punch my computer from the headache I am getting from the sanding and painting these carpenters are doing outside of my closed door 19:10:19 pirate social platform! Run everywhere, link mesh-style, plausible deniability, private-comm tools, military-grade security! 19:10:31 ikki [~ikki@189.247.83.25] has joined #lisp 19:10:42 optimized for utterlhy slow links, of course 19:10:45 *utterly 19:10:46 Xach: And as for quicklisp, every day I shed a tear in happiness because I can try new packages without getting depressed 19:10:55 like today I played with CL-GRAPH 19:11:35 do some software hacktivism and use lisp for it 19:11:50 yesterday I spent an hour and did this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ldazFtrbU 19:12:13 all thanks to quicklisp, making me be more productive and more lazy 19:12:28 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:12:47 hmmm... I can use developer evaluation version of AllegroGraph for an internal project... KR-based, AllegroGraph Powered "Little Black Book"? xD 19:12:57 would definitely help any political needs 19:13:40 osl [512be7c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.43.231.199] has joined #lisp 19:14:03 p_l|backup: allegrograph comes with a free license that lets you store up to 50 million triples 19:14:08 Quadrescence: ... and if it doesn't have to be lisp, write GLESv1.x/2.0 hw acceleration into Android Emulator 19:14:14 antifuchs: should be enough... for now 19:14:16 p_l|backup: if that's not enough, contact sales & we can figure something out. 19:14:20 p_l|backup: cool 19:14:55 antifuchs: if I needed more than that, I'd be probably either handling a big corporation, a major political figure, or running a conspiracy 19:15:02 did I already talk about how i love Franz sales? 19:15:11 p_l|backup: probably ((-; 19:15:25 p_l|backup: which sounds eerily like our customer base <-; 19:15:31 (just kidding) (-: 19:15:48 Right now I'd really enjoy a software package designed to optimize media onslaught on political opponent... (srsly) 19:15:57 i haven't bought anything yet from them because i am not rich and wealthy and rich, but they are nice people, one of these days i'll be able to afford their expensive junk 19:16:34 *p_l|backup* is leaning towards AllegroGraph for RDF database needs and LW for rich client 19:17:32 "rich and wealthy and rich"? 19:17:32 heh 19:17:41 redundant much? 19:18:06 I'd settle for one or two of those three. 19:18:14 Department of Redundancy Department 19:18:36 foom: accept the mystery 19:19:03 -!- splittist [~John@141-84.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: byeeeeee] 19:19:18 I wouldn't settle for anything less than all three 19:19:45 ... still, "Using Lisp to run a country" would be a serious success story :P 19:23:13 always depends how you use it (: 19:23:20 open government data and stuff, sure (: 19:23:27 secret police, not so much (: 19:23:54 Wondering if i'm either overly dense or if the spec is opaque w/re idiomatic usage of find-method? 19:24:16 antifuchs: I'm not thinking of a secret police, actually. More like internal system to keep all the data that one needs to keep track in a political position 19:24:35 yeah, I could get behind that 19:24:57 cause believe me, if you want to be honest, or "man of state", you need to have lots of blackmail and carefully track everything :) 19:25:43 man of side-effects? 19:25:45 I have seen House of Cards (: 19:26:02 colinf [~user@host86-141-227-211.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:22 -!- colinf [~user@host86-141-227-211.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:27:58 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:58 19:27:58 -!- names: ccl-logbot timor colinf osl Zephyrus ikki drl gonzojive_ malbertife ehu chemuduguntar jeekl jikanter hargettp gz gemelen Yuuhi joast LiamH pluto12345 Kruppe rgrau jso stis cerebral_monkey Quadrescence Phoodus pjb numeromancer dto kami` sellout csamuelson azaq23 varjag gravicappa gozoner jajcloz lonstein zc00gii sbahra setmeaway kushal superflit urandom__ mishoo _s1gma sonnym corruptmemory benny adu parcs icbh Davidbrcz billitch serichsen nyef nurv101 naryl 19:27:58 -!- names: cibs bzzbzz mahata Dodek fusss MetalDust dmiles_afk hramrach_ zmyrgel rmarianski homie froggey aidalgol Grazl dfox antoszka lanthan_afh katesmith Beetny Jasko antgreen` HET2 schoppenhauer CrazyEddy ch077179 pnkfelix leo2007 [df] mega1 REPLeffect Younder ZabaQ beach Ginei_Morioka carlocci nha HG` theBlackDragon BrianRice daniel_ mrSpec stassats` insomnia1alt drdo pavelludiq Adamant Athas mao`s tcr1 dym ace4016 rootzlevel rtoym lemoinem ASau Salamander_ 19:27:58 -!- names: wanderingelf Ralith npoektop simontwo z0d pkhuong Euthydemus rme mynameis skalawag blitz_ mouflon incandenza Posterdati nuba s0ber pchrist kephas mon_key tsuru pankajm tritchey levi PuffTheMagic js0000 phadthai twem2 xinming_ TDT dlowe mathrick EarlGray Oddity johanbev rvncerr Axioplase sm` angavrilov_ peterhil derrida chrnybo` vert2_ guther Yamazaki-kun bobbysmith007 kleppari_ SpitfireWP nullman hugod_ abeaumont deepfire billstclair pattern tmokros fmu 19:27:58 -!- names: qsun Zhivago araujo |3b| _3b eli kae ramus seangrov` Patzy quasisane djinni` Fullma jamief lolsuper_ jayne em prip_ hdurer_ Modius kfr ``Erik amb007 yan_ cmm mitre easyE dcrawford thijso Xantoz qebab Xach xavieran Fade vhost- Tordek Intensity talyz Obfuscate gnooth lundis vsync p_l|backup felipe tic tomaw ymv koning_robot xristos Fill fmu__ dRbiG Kovensky koollman delYsid Aisling reb` Draggor arbscht rotty zbigniew setheus Nshag spiaggia freiksenet foom 19:27:58 -!- names: lorenz rins lnostdal jkantz AntiSpamMeta apox hohum egn snorble larva k9quaint OliverUv eno kencausey galdor krappie__ rien_ Odin- cky elly tvaalen alexsuraci` srcerer PissedNumlock rokstar tychoish akkartik luis devn HerbieB tessier albino mtd erk clop lianj jrockway ejohnson gju_ clog scode pr kloeri ozzloy Borbus _2x2l jesusabdullah DrForr Tristam cpt_nemo shachaf Adrinael quasi_ boyscared fds johs joshe dostoyevsky spacebat ve Pepe_ froydnj 19:27:58 -!- names: hdurer_office tty234 yahooooo mgr trigen acieroid housel rafusy @antifuchs df_aldur vandemar hyko rabite Xof fe[nl]ix zakwilson alexsuraci rahul sid3k mornfall Jabberwockey specbot minion euphidime TeMPOraL mindCrime rsynnott _8david ianmcorvidae krl metasyntax` kanru lispmeister_ cods cmbntr Zahl pok_ cYmen churib metasyntax jsnell seejay derrotebaron baggles adeht 36DAA07FI Bucciarati stepnem peddie mal__ v0|d njan bfein ecraven Khisanth The_Fellow 19:27:58 -!- names: ineiros timchen1` 19:28:35 <_8david> Anyone here happen to know whether ACL's white listener window has the ability to move the cursor programmatically? 19:29:01 _8david: I don't think it does 19:29:03 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 19:29:13 _8david: you're talking about the windows one, right? 19:29:38 <_8david> yeah. All I can see is that it talks to fds 0/1, so perhaps it's not even written in Lisp? 19:29:50 Xach: I'm not sure if it translates well ^^; 19:30:10 <_8david> (all I want is the equivalent of (write-char #\return) on a unix tty) 19:30:22 p_l|backup: certainly men of state would not do well to speak in functional languages 19:30:31 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:30:35 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:30:39 hehe 19:30:41 Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:43 _8david: isn't the listener window *query-io*? 19:30:44 Xach: state as in country ;-) 19:30:51 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:30:53 _8david: I think you should be able to output that there 19:30:58 ooh 19:31:01 wait, #\return 19:31:06 yeah, probably not. 19:31:38 <_8david> OK, thanks. :-) 19:31:40 hans_ [~hans@host46-56-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 -!- colinf [~user@host86-141-227-211.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: timeout] 19:32:36 *p_l|backup* meanwhile decides to play some forex 19:33:26 Is the only portable way to find the function object associated with a setfable thing 19:33:31 to do (fdefinition (list (quote setf) (quote ))) 19:33:37 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-66-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:26 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:35:44 antifuchs: why not #\Return? does that have anything to do with the windows \r\n? 19:36:03 whois hans_ 19:36:28 timor [~timor@port-92-195-66-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:21 mon_key: you can also do #'(setf name) -> (function (setf name)) 19:37:25 mon_key: get-setf-expansion? 19:37:27 fusss: I have no idea why. my guess is that the listener window only does the minimalest amount of terminal emulation necessary 19:37:53 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3628.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:02 hi 19:38:43 prxq: hello 19:39:35 Xach: that returns the 5x values not the ojbect. 19:39:53 Blkt [~user@93-33-139-151.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:40:11 -!- osl [512be7c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.43.231.199] has left #lisp 19:40:24 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:54 mon_key: Well, there is not necessarily a function object associated with a setfable thing. 19:40:56 RaykOn [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 19:42:00 Xach: AFAICT sbcl's find-method wants the fdefinition for a generic setf thingy. 19:42:21 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:43 daly [~user@dynamic-acs-72-23-235-203.zoominternet.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:01 vokoda [~user@host109-153-54-12.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:01 -!- vokoda [~user@host109-153-54-12.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:43:02 vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 19:43:50 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 19:43:54 mon_key: find-method wants a generic function object. 19:43:55 nixnyan [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 mon_key: :accessor foo defines, if needed, a generic function named (SETF FOO). 19:45:16 and you can get the generic function object with fdefinition 19:45:27 Xach: Right, so I'm wondering what are the wayst to get at the generic setfables 19:45:46 mon_key: starting from what? the slot name? 19:47:22 greee, find-method doesn't work for structure methods 19:47:45 Xach: from the gf symbol 19:48:11 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:25 Right now i have: (find-method #'(setf ) {...} ) 19:48:48 flipzagging [~flipzaggi@wikimedia/NeilK] has joined #lisp 19:49:21 mon_key: the name of the generic function is (SETF FOO), not FOO. 19:49:29 or alternaltively (find-method (fdefinition (list 'setf ')) {...}) 19:49:36 sprayzor [~user@82.159.115.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:44 pers [~user@86.sub-75-196-206.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:56 Hey, I actually have a non-lisp question, I'm writing javascript, but it's general to functional programming. I'm writing a parser and there are mutually recursive functions. 19:50:15 flipzagging: This is not a good place for non-lisp questions. 19:50:56 Ragnaroek [5b0c3f42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.63.66] has joined #lisp 19:51:08 vser [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:51:10 Xach: fair enough... just wanted some smart FP people 19:51:25 flipzagging: CL is not an especially functional programming language. 19:51:26 does anyone know of a Common Lisp binding for lpsolve? 19:51:46 Xach: all right perhaps I'll try #scheme? :) 19:51:55 -!- vser is now known as Landr 19:51:58 jeekl_ [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 19:51:58 -!- flipzagging [~flipzaggi@wikimedia/NeilK] has left #lisp 19:52:03 -!- jeekl_ [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:04 If you're writing javascript, maybe a javascript forum would be better. 19:52:30 Ragnaroek: fancy; i might have seen some LP stuff in Tamas Papp (sp?) repo 19:52:53 mon_key: where did the symbol come from? 19:53:09 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:53:37 or a pure ILP solver in Common Lisp would also be cool 19:53:46 (defgeneric (setf FOO) (bar)) 19:55:26 mon_key: so you are producing the symbols to pass in a list to fdefinition by looking at your source code? 19:55:39 -!- pers [~user@86.sub-75-196-206.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:49 Ragnaroek: do you have a favorite C one? 19:56:06 Ragnaroek: you might be able to generate Lisp bindings for it 19:56:08 Ragnaroek: someone I know wrote bindings to gurobi. 19:56:15 Xach: No, I am trying to understand the semanitcs of find-method 19:56:17 The C API is really nice. 19:57:00 Ragnaroek: considering the amount of phd-years invested in state of the art MIP solvers, I wouldn't try and replicate that. 19:57:28 I have no idea how cffi works, but i guess binding CL to lpsolve would be easy for someone who knows a foreign function interface 19:57:41 mon_key: Why? 19:58:03 so I'm wondering if someone has done that 19:59:08 Ragnaroek: I am trying to teach myself LP; if you point me to a simple, FOSS LP package (<50 functions) I can help with the FFI :-) 19:59:26 I am working through Luenberger & Ye, and I use GSLL 19:59:37 fusss: bah, FOSS. Try gurobi, there's even an official python REPL (: 19:59:43 Xach: Seems usefull? More specifically wrt to SBCL I've narrowed down how to examine vanilla GFs but I'm not clear on what the semantics are for . 20:00:38 fusss: I'm currently using lpsolve (the LPSolve IDE) 20:00:46 -!- hans_ [~hans@host46-56-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:30 pers [~user@97.sub-69-98-156.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:11 mon_key: those are for finding things like :before/:after/:around methods. 20:02:50 Yes but it isn't clear if that is all 20:03:26 Ragnaroek: do you have a book to recommend for an absolute beginner? 20:03:37 mon_key: You mean, if that's an exhaustive list of qualifiers? 20:03:43 yes 20:04:08 mon_key: It's not, since you can define new method combinations with arbitrary qualifiers. 20:04:37 The spec mentions elswehere {t nil * etc.} 20:04:48 fusss: no don't have any literature, we did ILP in some lectures 20:04:53 Xach: any tutorial on how? I have seen :+ and :progn method combinations 20:05:29 Ragnaroek: FWIW, ILP also means Inductive Logic Programming .. which is much more fun, and actually about programming 20:05:36 fusss: I don't remember if PCL or Keene cover it, sorry. 20:05:42 Those would be the first places I'd look. 20:05:42 fusss: if you want to grok linear programming, Chvatal's book is awesome, and quite mind expanding. 20:06:03 fuss: Keene talks about it 20:06:05 Xach: keene does 20:06:35 fusss: section 5.5 opened here on my desk :) 20:07:20 pkhuong: for the underlying numerics, will GNU GSL (via GSLL) do to learn about LP? 20:07:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:07:50 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:08:12 brodo [~brodo@p5B024C9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 fusss: to implement a simplex? There's only a couple blas level 1 call, and even then it's sparse. Could be useful, but probably not that much. For a naive one with explicit linear system solves, sure. 20:09:48 Xach: So for example in the spec for define-method-combination it discusses QUALIFIER-PATTERN as potentially being the symbol `*' 20:10:33 huehnts [~huehnts@static.213-239-210-158.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 20:11:17 So I had assumed/expeced that find-method would accept * as a qualifer as well. 20:12:07 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:13:31 -!- Landr [~vser@78-22-154-231.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:25 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:14:57 on a related note; i really wanted a type-flattener than prints the type hierarchy of any type. Useful for highly specialized condition thrown by Lisps, and mapping them to less specific ANSI types. 20:15:14 mon_key: Which it does. 20:18:23 Ragnaroek: this LPSolve IDE thing looks neat. Thanks :-) 20:18:51 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:20:41 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:21:18 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:28 Xach: Howso? I can't get this to return: 20:21:29 (find-method (function ) '* '() nil) 20:21:30 sm` [s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 20:21:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.83.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:22:03 NM 20:22:17 don't quote * 20:23:00 mon_key: the qualifiers argument should be a list. 20:23:18 fusss: there are a lot of bindings for other languages for lpsolve 20:23:26 adding CL would only be natural :) 20:23:46 Xach: That doesn't work for me. 20:24:09 This works: (find-method (function ) * '() nil) 20:24:25 mon_key: I doubt you want *, since that evaluates to the last repl result. 20:24:49 mon_key: What happens if you pass '(*)? 20:24:59 nil 20:25:01 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.85.58] has joined #lisp 20:25:15 mon_key: Do you have any methods with * as a qualifier that you would expect to get? 20:26:06 No! That is my point. I assume that * means "match all" 20:26:12 mon_key: That is a bad assumption. 20:26:20 Very bad. 20:26:56 Why the spec explicitly mentions it as a qualifier-pattern for define-method-combination 20:27:04 unquoted * is rather interesting. 20:27:13 mon_key: have you tried it at the repl? 20:27:18 REPL> * 20:27:41 mon_key: find-method is not define-method-combination. 20:28:15 Xach: I understand but it is one of the few places in the spec that discusses what a "qualifier" is. 20:28:51 FWIW I'm not trying to argue just trying to understand how to use find method [: 20:29:16 mon_key: pass a generic function object, a list of qualifiers, and a list of specializers, and expect to get back a method that matches. 20:29:22 or nothing, or an error. 20:30:28 So a qualifier (in the abscence of define-method-combination) can be {:before :after :around}? 20:31:41 mon_key: those are the qualifiers in standard method combination. 20:32:30 mon_key: If you inspect a generic function object in slime, it presents a nicely formatted list of all methods and a GUI for deleting individual methods. Maybe the code that supports that GUI would be helpful (I haven't looked at it) 20:33:07 Xach: Great Thanks! 20:33:38 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 20:33:46 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 20:34:21 Xach: That did the trick. 20:35:39 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:36:32 mon_key: did you get a working syntax for (setf foo)? 20:36:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:02 I can't seem to get FIND-METHOD to see (setf foo) methods, thought 'foo itself is fine 20:37:36 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl11-43-225.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@125.78.160.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:07 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:38:29 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 20:41:17 vokoda` [~user@host109-152-181-7.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 fusss: given (defclass thing () ((id :accessor id))), try (find-method #'(setf id) '() '(t thing)) 20:42:41 fuss: this works for me on SBCL: 20:42:42 (find-method #'(setf ) nil '() nil) 20:42:50 -!- vokoda [~user@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:57 as does: (find-method (fdefinition '(setf )) nil '() nil) 20:45:35 fuss: the `t' in the setf'd generic specializer is important 20:47:05 vokoda`` [~user@host109-153-59-17.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:39 e.g. as opposed to (find-method #'id '() '(thing)) 20:47:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3628.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:24 -!- vokoda` [~user@host109-152-181-7.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:45 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:53:22 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.85.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:18 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.153.46.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:01:32 cheez [~Adium@206-248-177-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 21:02:50 -!- Grazl [~Grazl@188.Red-83-49-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:50 Grazl [~Grazl@94.Red-83-40-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:03 silenius [~silenus@p4FC23124.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:05 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 21:05:57 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:06:33 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-139-151.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 21:07:46 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:17 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:23 caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:44 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:06 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-3-5.uqwimax.jp] has left #lisp 21:12:15 bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has joined #lisp 21:13:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:10 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has joined #lisp 21:15:50 -!- serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has quit [Quit: My ::1 is my castle.] 21:16:24 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@178.233.153.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:22 vokoda``` [~user@host86-147-31-119.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:39 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:50 -!- vokoda`` [~user@host109-153-59-17.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:09 kraison [~kraison@c-67-170-49-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:37 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3628.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:13 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:51 -!- rien_ [~rien_@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:53 phil_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:01 -!- phil_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:08 phil_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:41 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:54 davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:51 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:57 -!- phil_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:35:04 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:50 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:01 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 21:39:03 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:47 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:43:54 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:44:15 -!- CrazyEddy [~promodera@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.243.225.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:12 snearch [~snearch@f053011248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:06 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:51:46 -!- RaykOn [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:54:02 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:44 -!- sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:03 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:03:12 sellout [~Adium@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 22:09:51 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:14:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-218-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:24 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:20:41 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:08 jrope [~androirc@74.sub-174-253-215.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:21:37 -!- mynameis [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has left #lisp 22:21:47 -!- jrope [~androirc@74.sub-174-253-215.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:33 -!- davazp [~user@15.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:03 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@173-14-110-121-nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:11 Can one export symbols from package :foo at any place other than defpackage? 22:29:27 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:01 yeah, there's the function EXPORT 22:30:04 -!- Ragnaroek [5b0c3f42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.12.63.66] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:30:04 Quadrescence: export? 22:30:36 *Quadrescence* is beginning to confuse what is deprecated and what is not. 22:31:00 it's not deprecated 22:31:04 but it's still not recommended (: 22:31:18 What is recommended then? 22:31:25 Just not being lazy and exporting at the defpackage? 22:31:50 yeah (: 22:32:04 well, there are points where it makes sense to use EXPORT. 22:32:26 it just makes the defpackage form hard to re-evaluate without dropping the package 22:33:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:40 Is it because of this that export is not recommended: 22:33:42 (import (export )) 22:33:43 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-66-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:33 no, for me it's just that you can't re-evaluate defpackage without going through restarts if you modified the package elsewhere 22:34:37 kpreid [~kpreid@chris-PC.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 22:34:43 it's annoying, and it gives you build order problems 22:34:48 so I avoid it whenever possible 22:35:10 [: OH! That explains it... 22:35:33 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:05 sb-posix uses it, I believe, and for mostly good reasons, I think (: 22:36:37 it lets you specify constants in only one place, which cuts down on possible bugs and stuff 22:36:37 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:38 Does the inverse apply as well? E.g. for symbols that pkgB imports from pkgA? 22:36:39 the whole DRY mantra 22:36:58 yeah, I avoid all the function-based package manipulators 22:37:50 antifuchs: Thanks for the heads up. This been giving me headaches recently. 22:37:57 cool (: 22:38:20 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3304.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:57 Now I'm off to do some UNEXPORT'ing 22:40:08 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:45:54 antifuchs: if I use (export ...) somewhere, I only get a warning when I re-evaluate defpackage. Why do you have to drop the package? 22:46:13 prxq: full Warning, right? 22:46:18 (I used to get them, I believe) 22:46:25 ("Package FOO also exports the following symbols", or such) 22:46:26 have since stopped using that, so don't get these warnings anymore 22:46:37 prxq: I'm inquiring about the type of the condition (: 22:46:56 yes, it is a full warning. 22:47:08 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:47:11 which means compilation failure for the file compiler (: 22:47:19 which means that file-compile fails, right 22:47:27 how annoying 22:47:33 exactly (: 22:48:02 why is it a full warning? 22:48:49 i mean, a style-warning would also be appropriate 22:48:54 and less annoying. 22:50:10 pillton [~user@140.253.50.42] has joined #lisp 22:50:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:25 Hi. Is anyone here on the osicat mailing list? 22:50:26 -!- vokoda``` [~user@host86-147-31-119.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:27 I believe there's undefined behavior about defpackage 22:52:51 antifuchs: have you used 'conduits' by tfeb? 22:52:55 Good morning everyone! 22:52:59 hi beach 22:53:04 prxq: I keep meaning to try it out ( 22:53:05 : 22:53:32 i c 22:53:47 good night 22:53:49 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3628.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:49 Good morning beach. What percent busy are you overall? 22:54:10 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54:34 nyef: hi 22:54:37 nyef: how are you ? 22:54:49 hi people 22:54:49 minion: memo for splittist: probably the first solution, a set of docstring files like docstrings-en.lisp, docstrings-fr.lisp in each module. 22:54:49 Remembered. I'll tell splittist when he/she/it next speaks. 22:55:00 hello Posterdati 22:55:03 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:11 gigamonkey: hi 22:55:17 Xach: hi 22:55:18 Quadrescence: Much more than I would have hoped. 22:55:50 nyef: I've got a chance to revive the Lisp project :) 22:56:47 Posterdati: You don't need to greet everyone with whom you ever had a conversation. 22:56:59 Quadrescence: Why do you ask? 22:57:00 why not? 22:57:11 csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:28 beach: I have a project idea I'll probably want to share with you. 22:57:50 Quadrescence: Sure, I love project ideas. Can it be done in public in #lisp? 22:58:15 Yo Posterdati 22:58:22 Xach: if you use xchat the message would be highlighted 22:58:59 I was thinking it was polite 22:59:02 -!- pers [~user@97.sub-69-98-156.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:07 pers [~user@97.sub-69-98-156.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:07 gigamonkey: how are you ? 22:59:19 Posterdati: I find it obnoxious. If you'd like to talk about Lisp, go for it. 22:59:24 Goodish. 22:59:37 Xach: sure I know 22:59:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:45 beach: yes 22:59:48 Xach: I'm in this channel to talk about lisp 22:59:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:00:03 Quadrescence: I am all ears! 23:00:11 Xach: I hope, not to bother people 23:00:30 Posterdati: Then please talk about Lisp, and don't spend a lot of time saying hello to everyone. 23:00:50 antifuchs: conduits work pretty well 23:00:55 fe[nl]ix: neat! 23:01:09 Hey Xach! ;-) 23:01:47 Boo 23:01:56 antifuchs: https://github.com/sionescu/iolib/blob/master/src/new-cl/pkgdcl.lisp 23:02:27 gigamonkey: are you interested in solving electrical circuit software? 23:02:34 Not really. 23:02:41 I'm not even sure I know what that means. 23:02:47 :) 23:03:33 Posterdati: A chance to revive it? Cool. 23:03:34 gigamonkey: I am guessing "software for solving electric circuits". 23:03:36 gigamonkey: it's a project I started with a friend to solve non linear circuit (discharge lamps) 23:04:01 nyef: I take the chief by his ba.... 23:04:06 -!- pillton [~user@140.253.50.42] has left #lisp 23:04:29 beach: yeah. However I can only guess at what "solving electric circuits means" 23:04:38 I was a single-E major, not double-E. 23:04:44 gigamonkey: Oh, sorry. 23:05:00 beach: I decided that it's time for another CL book! I'm interested in writing a book, sort of along the lines of Norvig's PAIP, but about scientific and mathematical computation. 23:05:05 gigamonkey: for example just think to overhead neon lamps in classrooms 23:05:28 ... Why would you want the overhead lamps in a classroom to be -neon-? 23:05:49 nyef: not me, but generally... 23:06:09 Quadrescence: good luck! 23:06:21 nyef: neon lamps in the shape of 1.2m 1.5m tubes 23:06:44 nyef: are common here in public places, they're cheap 23:06:46 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:06:46 Oh. Whiteish-light ones? 23:07:03 nyef: they're white or light orange 23:07:04 -!- pers [~user@97.sub-69-98-156.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:07:12 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:07:18 nyef: unless you use Wood lamps 23:07:20 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:07:25 Quadrescence: Hey, that sounds nice! 23:07:28 Posterdati: light orange are Sodiom lamps, not neon. 23:07:39 wood lamps? I'm more into oil lamps. Hah! 23:07:40 So, what might be called "florescent" lights over here? 23:07:45 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:07:50 fluorescent. 23:07:57 Sodium 23:08:06 koning_robot: Those can be cool, so long as the cat doesn't knock them over... 23:08:08 Right :-) 23:08:11 pjb: the bulb one, > 250W, the orange tube one are neon lamps 23:08:24 beach: Anyway, IIRC, you worked on CL-FFT (maybe not), but I'm pretty sure you know a thing or two about algorithms and computation. So depending on your schedule of doing things, maybe it's something you'd want to be a part of. 23:08:25 kvir4567 [~kvirc@89.189.158.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #lisp 23:08:27 http://bashtube.ru/video/7088/ 23:08:32 pjb: with different internal coat 23:08:58 kvir4567: If this is related to Lisp, then please state how. 23:09:14 beach: ok 23:09:21 nyef: so electrical circuit from the source to the lamp is a non linear circuit 23:10:12 Okay, cool. 23:10:57 kvir4567: Especially since your behavior is typicall troll behavior: come here for the first time; post a URL; then go away. 23:11:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:11:09 nyef: me and a cow-worker did a Lisp program to solve such circuits. Solving means to calculate every current and every voltage across the circuit. 23:11:22 cerebral_monkey_ [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:35 beach: ok 23:11:41 nyef: program takes circuit description from a text file 23:11:58 and kvir fails the turing test :( 23:12:05 :) 23:12:08 nyef: a description like the gigamonkey books example for cd db :) 23:12:20 Quadrescence: Sure, I know some things about the FFT. For instance, I have the current world record in shuffling; 5 times faster than the previous one (unless it has been improved upon). 23:12:37 Sounds straightforward, given graph theory and a knowledge of the actual circuit dynamics for each possible component. 23:12:46 pft, I'll shuffle in O 23:12:47 (0) 23:12:51 nyef: it was very amazing because I wasn't able to do same things in c/c++ :) 23:12:57 At the same time, cool! 23:12:57 beach: Shuffling as in bit reversal? 23:13:00 irc://irc.freenode.org/#lisp 23:13:04 Quadrescence: Yes. 23:13:14 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:15 nyef: that it is my favorite programming language 23:13:15 yes 23:13:37 welcom tu rahha 23:13:42 beach: Haha, you'd probably love to see my bit reversal routine for a 2^n-point FFT I wrote in BASIC however many years ago. 23:13:50 :) 23:14:04 Quadrescence: You think so? :) 23:14:06 nyef: http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 23:14:07 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 23:14:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 23:14:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:14:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:03 -!- cerebral_monkey [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:26 nyef: it can solve circuit with current and voltage generators, resistance, inductance, capacitance and gas discharge lamp (following a model) every circuit elements has got its own programmable model :) 23:16:14 Posterdati: But now that you've done it once, you probably can figure out how to do it in C++, right? 23:16:34 nyef: I've got an idea, but never try 23:16:40 Quadrescence: I also know that using a radix of (sqrt n) is best in terms of number of operations, but I don't know how to do it without allocating space. 23:17:23 nyef: then I found that Lisp can assemble lists with different objects in it in a simple way, then I read gigamonkey example about cd database and modified it 23:17:27 Quadrescence: (for the FFT, that is) 23:17:38 nyef: used clem for the math 23:17:56 So, sounds like a decent little project. 23:18:33 nyef: it works we tested it against octave and literature examples :) 23:18:50 -!- csamuelson [~csamuelso@adsl-240-246-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:06 nyef: it is not finished yet, I count to add electrical machines model, because I'd like to perform power networks load-flow 23:19:07 Quadrescence: Such a book would be the opportunity for me to clean up my FFT code and implement all the ideas I had about it. 23:20:10 beach: Have you ever implemented any weirder FFT-like algorithms (e.g., using integers for exact convolution?) 23:20:45 Quadrescence: No, I haven't. That sounds fun. 23:20:50 -!- cerebral_monkey_ [~berkley@c-69-243-225-248.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:04 nyef: the funny thing was implement probes and circuit description scanning functions, I did like gigamonkey did in that example :) was very amazing 23:21:22 huangho [~vitor@201-66-208-165.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:21:33 nyef: never be so excited :) LOL 23:21:57 *mathrick* gets unreasonably happy about having typed (* ** *) for useful purposes 23:22:03 nyef: really I couldn't stop programming until it was finished :) 23:22:09 Quadrescence: I am writing a book on algorithmics, and I was thinking about a chapter dedicated to numerical algorithms, but there are so many of them, and that's not my strong point, so I might leave it out, or keep it short. Some of the ideas from that chapter would be nice in a Lisp book. 23:22:11 beach: Actually it's quite interesting. NTT ("number theoretic transform", doing an FFT over a field Z/pZ) is neat stuff, and its speed really depends on how well you can do your modular arithmetic :) You can also do several small NTTs and reconstruct the final result with the Chinese Remainder Theorem. It's cool stuff. 23:22:31 mathrick: Congratulations. That's an occasionally fun thing to do. 23:22:39 Quadrescence: That does sound interesting! 23:22:43 beach: Oh you are? How far are you in it? 23:22:58 *Xach* pushes his unfinished CL PostScript junk to github 23:23:04 nyef: I was forced to do it in Lisp when I did, for test, a fact function :) 23:23:22 Quadrescence: I would say 50%, but it's not moving because my co-authors keep flaking out on me. 23:23:42 Quadrescence: And it is in French, meant as a text book for my algorithms class. 23:23:47 beach: May I see a draft of it? 23:23:53 nyef: I would appreciate if you download it :) 23:24:10 Luckily I know un ou deux mots in French 23:24:16 nyef: just to have your impressions :) 23:25:48 does "higher order programming" mean use functions as arguments to other functions or it is only for lambda functions? 23:25:52 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:04 Posterdati: mu 23:26:12 mathrick: ? 23:26:17 you're confused and your question doesn't make a whole lot of sense 23:26:23 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:26:35 higher order programming is when you operate on functions as values, basically 23:26:46 for which lambdas are really, really useful 23:26:48 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:26:57 mathrick: ok, thanks 23:27:25 but technically, it's higher order when you pass a function to a function, so you can have it even in C, which lacks lambdas 23:27:32 nyef: so I did a little "higher order programming" in it, especially for models :) 23:27:42 -!- kvir4567 [~kvirc@89.189.158.130.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has quit [] 23:27:53 mathrick: I use it a lot in c 23:28:06 Mmm. Looking at the code now. 23:28:22 nyef: it's very rough 23:28:33 nyef: a noob program 23:30:01 Yeah, it's rough. Leaving aside the lack of commentary, and my lack of background to understand quite what it's trying to do, there are some things that raise red flags for me. 23:30:14 And some stuff that I'd just plain have done differently. 23:30:29 aha 23:30:32 tcleval [bb727476@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.114.116.118] has joined #lisp 23:31:42 hi, I ve been looking Lisp Web Frameworks, but I'd like to know of websites (no only Lisp oriented sites) that use CL and its web frameworks 23:31:51 At the top, I'd probably have used TeX for the formula. Just about as unreadable as the ascii-art you used, but with the option to be prettier by running it through a previewer. 23:32:01 nyef: red flags? 23:32:10 Then, I would have defined a new package instead of just doing an (IN-PACKAGE :CLEM). 23:32:10 tcleval: seems that most of them are intranet websites 23:32:16 xan_ [~xan@245.Red-79-157-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:27 (Big red flag there. Always define your own package.) 23:32:33 tcleval: http://www.aulapolska.pl/ <--- an old weblocks site that doesn't really do much 23:32:58 nyef: defpackage should be the first? 23:33:07 Yeah. 23:33:23 and how could I use clem in it? (:use :clem)) = 23:33:25 I'm not even certain this would compile as-is. 23:33:26 and how could I use clem in it? (:use :clem)) ? 23:33:43 nyef: it compiles... :) 23:33:46 You'd (:use :cl :clem), otherwise you'd lose easy access to the base language. 23:34:06 nyef: good 23:34:23 nyef: no asdf load-system? 23:34:58 nyef: shall I use (in-package :clem) ? 23:35:18 You're calling ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM at toplevel, without an EVAL-WHEN. 23:35:31 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@adsl-99-104-105-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:39 That should break unless you've already loaded CLEM. 23:36:01 ok 23:36:19 (The lack of EVAL-WHEN means the compiler doesn't call the function it merely arranges for the function to be called when the file is loaded. You then IN-PACKAGE :CLEM, which takes effect at compile-time. *boom*. 23:36:27 p_l|backup: do you have more examples? 23:36:29 what would be the correct code? 23:36:43 pers [~user@71-214-58-123.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:54 tcleval: nothing on hand 23:37:30 nyef: do I need asdf:load-system and in-package? 23:38:24 Posterdati: packages are for namespace management only 23:38:34 antifuchs: ok 23:38:36 Posterdati: asdf is about managing the loading of libraries 23:38:49 (cl:eval-when (:load-toplevel :compile-toplevel :execute) (asdf:load-system :clem)) (cl:defpackage :circuit-analyzer (:use :cl :clem) (:export "SETUP-PROBLEM")) (cl:in-package :circuit-analyzer) 23:38:53 so yeah, you need to load the thing, then you can use its names (and its package) 23:38:53 Or something like that. 23:38:54 antifuchs: and I need them to use functions 23:39:01 that's right 23:39:11 good 23:39:15 Posterdati: I think it would be easiest if you made a .asd file for your project 23:39:18 p_l|backup: I google for "running on Hunchentoot" 23:39:20 check out Xach's quickproject guide 23:39:31 I'd argue that :execute isn't necessary on the EVAL-WHEN, but others would disagree. I'd argue that the package prefixes are necessary, but others would disagree, and so it goes. 23:39:32 antifuchs: wow, ok but not so fast :) 23:39:33 Posterdati: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 23:39:52 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:01 for the more involved, step-by-step way, http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 23:40:07 both are worth a read, I think 23:40:26 I'd have spread the definition of GAS-DISCHARGE-LAMP over more lines. 23:40:39 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:10 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:18 You seem to be using strings to name things and then comparing them with EQUAL instead of just using keywords (which are EQ-comparable) in the first place. 23:41:36 nyef: yes, I like strings 23:42:32 EQUAL on strings is far more expensive than EQUAL on keywords. 23:43:20 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:43:41 nyef: much better now 23:44:18 nyef: yes I know, solving time is my major issue :) 23:44:32 nyef: but I like strings... 23:44:58 nyef: I started to use symbols in early versions, but I change to string 23:45:21 Posterdati: and I like strawberries 23:45:35 fe[nl]ix: me too 23:45:41 fe[nl]ix: I eat a lot :) 23:45:41 Mmm... strawberries. 23:46:02 ("Yoghurt! Yoghurt! I hate Yoghurt! Even with strawberries...") 23:47:26 p_l|backup: I have found this: http://www.appliedstacks.com/NewestFirst/Lisp but it is Lisp in general 23:47:29 grr... parts of slime are a mess 23:47:44 which one specifically? 23:47:51 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:54 I mean, god, yeah, but then what isn't :-) 23:48:24 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] 23:48:28 nyef: did you solved a circuit :) 23:49:15 tcr1: slime-selector-other-window and slime-selector 23:49:53 I can't remember having read that code, but I think there's worse stuff than it :-) 23:49:54 slime-selector let-binds s-s-o-w to other-window... So whats the point of the var? 23:50:58 Posterdati: No, I have no real need to attempt such a thing, and the input format seems essentially undocumented, I don't have CLEM installed, and so it goes. 23:51:35 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:52:01 nyef: if you like I'll send you a netlist file 23:53:03 I'll pass on that, if you don't mind? 23:53:29 nyef: don't worry 23:53:31 I'm only willing to critique so much. ;-p 23:53:33 nyef: I thank you 23:53:46 ... and I'm gone for a bit. Food time. 23:54:11 nyef: I'd like you to see the completion bar I did :) 23:54:25 nyef: while it solves the netlist :) 23:54:47 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:57:41 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-91-168.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]