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00:46:52 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:46:56 I mean to ask, why did you use LPN namestrings? 00:47:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B2F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:47:12 i didn't, ; is a part of file-name 00:47:26 oh 00:47:28 hahaha 00:47:48 Time for a bare MAKE-PATHNAME ? 00:47:52 yeah, then you need (make-pathname :name "") 00:48:15 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:37 yes, but then it'll be # and not # 00:49:01 yeah, but it'll refer to the correct file. 00:49:06 do you need it destructured? 00:49:18 well, but i use pathname-type on that pathname 00:49:32 ah 00:49:37 hey, one idea: 00:49:48 try (merge-pathnames "./foo; a.bar" (user-homedir-pathname)) 00:49:54 that seems to return the right thing for me 00:50:15 ./: not just useful for giving hints to unix tools. 00:50:47 it does too, here, but these being pathnames, i'm won't be surprised that it won't work somewhere else 00:50:54 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.223] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 00:50:54 Works fine for me without workarounds. 00:51:01 (sbcl/linux) 00:51:35 stassats: prepending ./ to a relative pathname namestring should either make or keep it relative 00:51:41 I think you'll be safe with this. 00:51:49 antoszka: what does it return? 00:51:53 "works fine for me" regarding pathnames is just an anecdote 00:52:00 and i'm using Clozure CL 00:52:10 stassats: I was testing on sbcl 00:52:21 stassats: (merge-pathnames "foo; a.bar" (user-homedir-pathname)) 00:52:22 #P"/home/antoni/foo; a.bar" 00:52:22 yes, ./ trick works on ccl 00:52:24 I really hate the ; pathname syntax 00:52:57 stassats: (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :name "foo; a" :type "bar") (user-homedir-pathname)) 00:53:00 #P"/home/antoni/foo; a.bar" 00:53:58 do you suggest that i bow down to pathnames, and separate name from type by hand? 00:55:11 stassats: it would be best if you could do this. obviously, in some cases that's just not possible. 00:56:16 this file-name coming from inotify, i don't think that file-types will be separated with some vms-nonsense instead of #\., so i think it'll be safe 00:57:08 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:40 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:54 it's safe to assume that all nonsensey pathname serialisations come from lisp nowadays (-: 01:01:09 *stassats* impatiently awaits a great victor arriving on a white horse and defeating pathnames 01:02:43 Genieliu [~genie@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 01:03:20 alright, two minutes' of pathname hate are over, the code is fixed 01:04:27 -!- Jesdisciple [~Jesdiscip@adsl-75-53-39-195.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:44 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:07:43 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-181-26.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:07:58 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:10:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:12:20 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]] 01:13:45 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.86.129] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:16:47 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:58 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:17 -!- Guest62265 [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has left #lisp 01:26:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:46 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:28:39 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:14 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:54 Aloha 01:29:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:21 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:34 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-40-187-235.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34:01 holaha 01:35:21 IEE802 ACK :P 01:37:17 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Quit: superflit] 01:37:51 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@189-47-118-97.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:37:55 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 01:37:57 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has quit [Client Quit] 01:39:51 huangho [~vitor@201.41.0.87] has joined #lisp 01:40:08 minion: So you are back? 01:40:09 and you're a silly hu-man 01:40:23 [indeed!] 01:42:39 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:47 beach: Yeah, it turns out that very few people know how to resurrect the bots when they get disconnected. 01:44:51 valium97582 [~daniel@187.34.48.61] has joined #lisp 01:45:05 (Which happens distressingly often.) 01:46:02 Who has the magic powers to resurrect the bots? 01:46:04 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:46:22 I do. 01:46:58 And, umm... Anyone with access to the lisppaste account can do it the crude way by attaching to the screen, finding the SBCL session, and hitting EOF. 01:47:11 rofl 01:47:28 One of these days I need to sit down with them and figure out how to make them /notice/ that they've been disconnected. 01:48:09 *rtoym* notices no one updated the topic to mention ecl 11.1.1 01:48:48 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.207] has joined #lisp 01:51:15 -!- xiackok [~user@94.54.81.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:40 nasstop [~hobo@cpe-74-69-38-24.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:47 Is there a kindle formatted version of SICP 01:51:48 ? 01:52:25 Ask amazon.com? 01:53:03 amazon doesn't have it...I was wondering if somebody made a free one since the book is available for free 01:54:38 nyef: Could you teach a few others? 01:55:12 anyone have any experience using lispbuilder-sdl-ttf with cl-opengl? I'm trying to figure out the best way to use sdl-ttf with opengl for text 01:55:28 beach: I could, if the few others had access to the account. Or, as I said, there's the crude method with the same prerequisites, or actually teaching the bots to do it themselves. 01:59:00 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-71-227-118-15.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:05:06 nyef: OK. I am just trying to minimize your investment in time here. 02:05:54 Thanks for the consideration. I may take you up on it later. 02:06:23 -!- lonstein_ is now known as lonstein 02:07:22 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B327BBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:25 "Lisp, being a more sophisticated language than - say - BASIC, does need a bit of memory space to work in..." 02:07:29 "As examples, a Lisp towards the simpler end of the range may occupy around 10 K, whilst a Lisp towards the more advanced end may need around 48 K..." 02:07:45 daniel [~daniel@p5B327BBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:22 "This is a choice you must make, I'm afraid: there is obviously a one-to-one tradeoff between teh amount of memory-space you have left after loading Lisp and the size of the Lisp programs you can then write." 02:08:28 "All of the programs in this book can be run using a 10 K Lisp on a 32 K machine." 02:08:42 ahh.. the good old days.. 02:09:02 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09:08 -!- nasstop [~hobo@cpe-74-69-38-24.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:28 Heh. That must have been a /while/ ago. 02:11:48 48k? do I _look_ like a billionaire? 02:12:17 48k? Do I /look/ like an Apple ][ ? 02:12:45 yes, yes you do 02:12:55 *Landr* sticks a floppy of oregon trail in nyef 02:13:01 Gyah! 02:13:40 ... "Oregon Trail II: Wagons East!" would be a great name for a game. 02:14:37 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:40 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: system update] 02:16:13 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:21:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:52 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:47 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:07 hey -- i'm sure this question get asked a lot -- is land of lisp a good book for beginning programmers? 02:26:27 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:26:33 parcs: So they say. 02:27:12 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:27:30 beach: good to know, thanks 02:31:10 i've heard mixed reviews 02:31:17 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty] 02:31:36 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:02 pattern: like what? 02:32:15 it indisputably has more cartoons per page than almost any other lisp book in existence, though 02:32:33 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:32:48 valium97582: like this 3-star review on amazon... http://www.amazon.com/review/R2ILY9C621OG4G/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2ILY9C621OG4G 02:33:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:33:12 lol, "republic of haskell" 02:33:25 Do you guys think SICP is a good book for beginning lisp programing? 02:33:26 (which is written by a Graham.. though Bruce, not Paul) 02:33:47 sicp teaches scheme, not lisp 02:33:55 SICP is a good book for skipping the first two chapters of. 02:34:24 that said, i hear it's quite possible to go through the book and do the exercises in common lisp, as this man did: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ 02:34:31 pattern: scheme isn't one of lisp program language> 02:35:06 Genieliu: It is, but this channel is about Common Lisp. 02:35:14 #scheme also exists 02:35:25 sellout: Like emacs lisp? 02:35:38 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 02:36:01 Genieliu: See #emacs for that :) 02:36:14 sellout: Ok,got it 02:36:21 Genieliu: I also have a good price on #clojure, today only. 02:36:54 sellout: What's that? 02:37:11 Genieliu: common lisp and scheme are different enough to have passionate defenders of each over the other 02:37:38 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:41 because $my_language > $your_language 02:38:48 Nice, I presume that was PHP, Landr 02:38:53 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:55 like this hilarious erik naggum rant i read the other day: 02:39:15 "I find it symptomatic of Schemers attacks on Common Lisp that they are ignorant, arrogant, and so devoid of correctnes and precision as to merit no other badge than 'prejudice'." 02:39:18 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:29 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3063828476472680@naggum.no.html 02:39:45 *beach* misses Erik Naggum's articles. 02:39:46 in LoL, scheme is a sheep and CL a wolf 02:40:10 Hah, I didn't know Xach had a section about Naggum on his site 02:40:26 yeah.. he has a whole naggum archive 02:40:42 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/ 02:43:10 my own choice of common lisp boils down to it being by far the most popular of the various lisps.. 02:43:52 i hope i'll have enough energy and motivation to branch out in to other lisps and scheme when i'm more well versed in it.. 02:46:00 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.34.48.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:18 The biggest ones are like Common Lisp, Scheme and Clojure, right? 02:46:34 Clojure is very unusual for a Lisp though, with its tight Java integration? 02:47:21 i don't know how popular clojure is, considering it's so new 02:47:22 And as for CL vs. Scheme hmmm... Scheme generally prefers more recursive functions and referential transparency and stuff like that? More pure FP? I am not certain, I know little about it, but it's the vibe I got 02:47:26 kuffaar: People don't agree as to what "a Lisp" is, so there will not be a single absolute answer to that. 02:47:39 Clojure has a pretty big cahnnel on freenode, so does Scheme 02:47:52 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:47:57 -!- g000001_ [~mc@www14045u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:48:07 again, i'm not sure that's such a good measure 02:48:29 I liked CL best out of those I checked out, pure FP is too tough on me although I am currently coding nothing but Haskell 02:48:35 (having a very hard time with that) 02:48:42 #lisp has 313 people in it, while ##c has 388... and there's no way lisp is anywhere close to C in popularity 02:48:49 Yeah 02:49:04 #haskell is one of the biggest channels on freenode and it's not even in the top 10 02:49:10 and #java has fewer people in it than #lisp 02:49:26 Because Haskell coders need help all the time 02:49:29 Because it's so difficult. 02:49:40 heh 02:52:33 a better measure might be the number of libraries and apps written in the language 02:53:09 reddit apparently switched to python because of that ;< (please not to be shooting the messenger) 02:54:39 It could be argued that reddit is a lisp success story. 02:57:22 -!- Genieliu [~genie@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:57:49 good article on the switch: http://www.findinglisp.com/blog/2005/12/reddit-and-lisp-psychosis.html 02:58:36 also, it should be kept in mind that this happened in 2005 02:59:38 >develop on a Mac, and reddit.com is a FreeBSD box 02:59:40 9_9 02:59:44 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:00:21 First mistake: Involving a mac. 03:01:13 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:50 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:09 fusss [~fusss@1.148.94.67] has joined #lisp 03:03:30 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.32.52] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:03:51 folks, anyone know if SDL:(LIST-MODES|VIDEO-DIMENSION|DRIVER-NAME|VIDEO-INFO) and other interrogative functions of lispbuilder-sdl are supposed to work with just SDL initialized? at the moment, they require I open a window first. With no hint of said "requirement" appearing in the code. 03:04:32 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:04:35 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:04:53 if I create a 200x200 window, all hardware display capabilities are reported as 200x200. If I don't create a window, I get nil. bad SDL. 03:06:19 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:09:24 fusss: Are you writing a 3d-engine? :3 03:11:06 sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-8-62.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:11:28 naryl: Do I look like a newbie to you? HELLO NO, I am writing a 2D-engine. 03:12:05 visualizations, actually 03:12:40 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:14:34 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:16:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:16:42 spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 03:17:13 -!- spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:26 -!- hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.191.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:12 kickass, solved it. 03:18:35 WITH-INIT seems borked, manual calls to VIDEO-INIT does the job 03:19:19 mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-2-86.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 03:22:50 egomosis [~egomosis@cpe-76-188-33-45.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:12 hugod_ [~hugod@76.66.182.126] has joined #lisp 03:25:24 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 03:25:50 -!- spiaggia` [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit 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04:03:57 -!- gumpa [~max@p5DE8C707.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:04:04 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:53 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:21 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.176] has joined #lisp 04:12:29 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-102-74.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:18:33 -!- easyE [0VPb2uz3C5@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:36 dolovor [~dolovor@94.55.217.211] has joined #lisp 04:25:54 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.207.139] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:25:58 -!- egomosis [~egomosis@cpe-76-188-33-45.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:38 The effect of redefining a defconstant-defined constant depends on its type? 04:28:50 (progn (defconstant const 0.01) (defconstant const 0.01)) OK 04:28:58 (progn (defconstant const "0.01") (defconstant const "0.01")) BAD 04:29:28 is it because the compiler can guarantee equality for number constant (fixnums) but not strings? 04:29:28 fusss: I think you can redefine if and only if the values are EQL 04:29:54 sharps: that's an excellent answer 04:32:46 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-18-45.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 04:34:45 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1CAB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:36:43 -!- az [~az@p5796CD55.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:38:18 -!- huangho [~vitor@201.41.0.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:42:14 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:43:31 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-102-74.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:43:48 az [~az@p4FE4EA37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:54 -!- dolovor [~dolovor@94.55.217.211] has quit [] 04:49:12 dolovor [~dolovor@94.55.217.211] has joined #lisp 04:50:44 -!- sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:25 Sluggo [~user@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:04 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:29 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:38 sm` [s@77.28.120.143] has joined #lisp 05:03:13 pnq [~nick@AC830888.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:31 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:38 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:52 evening 05:07:10 hey slyrus_ 05:07:52 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:45 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-8-62.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has left #lisp 05:10:15 spiaggia [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 05:14:18 -!- rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:33 rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 14:12:10 -!- names: ccl-logbot bzzbzz mephisto_ hargettp dlowe Raykon az_ homie` Joreji Edward__ twem2 ZabaQ krl xan_ kiuma dfox sabalaba juniorroy myu2 ramkrsna__ jweiss_ mahata urandom__ __hramrach sellout Jasko adamvh felipe ignas mstevens tritchey brickhazel longshot madnificent sykopomp EarlGray jao stassats gemelen dfkjjkfd pdelgallego lonesomerider mishoo valium97582 billitch kanru mrSpec SpitfireWP Yuuhi HG` Ralith Athas kenjin2201 H4ns angavrilov xvilka dstatyvka rien 14:12:10 -!- names: mega1 Phoodus Hun varjag chrnybo HET2 splittist pchrist insomnia1alt ymv ch077179 morphling AntiSpamMeta tomaw jsnell seejay derrotebaron elly baggles qsun adeht NNshag prip cmm hlavaty lorenz 36DAA07FI Bucciarati stepnem naryl peddie mal__ dto v0|d daniel karbak rien_ njan aidalgol bfein Harag fnordus ecraven ramus Khisanth amb007 quasisane zc00gii The_Fellow dcrawford wanderingelf drdo ttb Patzy_ katesmith ineiros tmokros egn yan_ krappie__ timchen1` 14:12:10 -!- names: johanbev Axioplase_ kae trebor_dki flip214 mvilleneuve RaceCondition Oddity beach aerique Salamander mtd jdz e-user gravicappa sonnym sm` Liera slyrus_ moore33 Obfuscate ianmcorvidae easyE rokstar benny spiaggia parcs adu lemoinem gumpa_ gonzojive redline6561 arbscht hugod_ cataska abhinav Adlai_ rtoym Euthydemus Ginei_Morioka grouzen zeroish metasyntax nowhere_man _8david rsynnott theBlackDragon CrazyEddy joast albino REPLeffect Modius js0000 eli macrobat 14:12:11 -!- names: rdd mindCrime leth abeaumont tvaalen araujo ace4016 TeMPOraL euphidime lnostdal koollman ASau tychoish DarthShrine wol Adamant PuffTheMagic pkhuong ``Erik eno__ kencausey simontwo_ Guest80187 mathrick og nullman` minion specbot lisppaste Jabberwockey mornfall Posterdati sid3k lundis vsync rahul Intensity xinming pattern alexsuraci Dodek billstclair Kovensky zakwilson peterhil` em lusory bobbysmith007 CyberDomovoy sm`wor fe[nl]ix holycow jestocost rootzlevel 14:12:11 -!- names: Xof s0ber rabite hyko- levi jamief incandenza OliverUv vandemar jomatv6 tsuru ocharles mon_key _3b erk_ antoszka [df] djinni` bigjust_ lonstein koning_robot churib fmu df_aldur antifuchs Xantoz delYsid mitre_ Xach Tordek gz rafusy dRbiG Landr housel thijso kuffaar acieroid Fade z0d yonatan_ timjstewart trigen HDurer_home mgr tessier derrida yahooooo cYmen pok_ clop2 Zahl tic cmbntr cods Yamazaki-kun lispmeister_ froggey dym Zhivago deepfire p_l|backup 14:12:11 -!- names: zbigniew foom setheus akkartik vert2_ luis devn HerbieB slyrus tty234 hdurer_office jayne froydnj apox bougyman Pepe_ ve rafl spacebat dostoyevsky rapacity joshe pjb gnooth johs cky fds boyscared mpedersen quasi_ Adrinael SecretAgent PissedNumlock rotty huehnts reb` galdor shachaf guther cpt_nemo sixpoint8 Tristam |3b|` DrForr jesusabdullah svk_ fmu__ nuba _2x2l Draggor Borbus ozzloy qebab kloeri guaqua strlen pr scode clog gju_ gds hohum Tasunteld ejohnson 14:12:11 -!- names: jrockway lianj 14:12:52 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:18:54 joeygibson [~joeygibso@208.52.139.50] has joined #lisp 14:20:22 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-57-204.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:36 hi nyef 14:20:37 G'morning all. 14:20:39 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:13 Okay, bots are all still here, good. 14:22:05 phao [~phao@189.107.134.160] has joined #lisp 14:22:41 Don't jinx it. 14:23:06 can someone point me a decent comparison between scheme and common lisp? 14:23:30 Meh. If they disappear, they disappear. And if I notice, they return. 14:24:01 if a bot falls in a channel and nyef doesn't hear, is it really gone? 14:24:09 ... Yes? 14:24:19 hahaha 14:24:21 And it won't be back for a while, either. 14:25:09 phao: what does 'decent' mean? Civil? Balanced? Comprehensive? Comprehensible to someone who knows nothing of either?... 14:25:46 one that is as little biased as possible, and the more complete the better 14:25:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-205.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:26:50 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-205.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:27:08 phao: read CLHS, then read RnRS 14:27:17 phao: I think you are better off reading two entirely separate descriptions of the two things, and comparing those descriptions. Anything set up as a comparison is really going to be a contrast. 14:27:23 Or what stassats said (: 14:27:50 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@18.83-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:52 While you can compare languages, you will end up tending to use implementations instead. And often it will be that you should pick the language and implementation that the community around you uses. 14:28:50 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:29:09 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:29:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00242f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:36 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-87.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 14:31:22 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:32:59 -!- Liera [~user@113.172.33.211] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:33:31 nyef: if i had to choose what the community around me uses i would have been stuck in ms-hell for ever 14:34:06 ZabaQ [~john.conn@18.83-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:17 That goes back to the "Change your company or change your Company" thing. 14:34:45 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-211-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:19 -!- rafl [rafl@goatse.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:35:35 closer to change your country 14:36:14 heh 14:36:25 But look at the academic contexts: It seems to me that, on the basis of a ludicrously small number of samples, people at a given university will tend to use the same programming languages. 14:36:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 14:37:04 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:09 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:38:18 rafl [rafl@goatse.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:38:59 nyef: that seems reasonable strategy, if you want to be understood 14:39:46 Right. It also means that you should factor programming language preference in when selecting your a college to attend. 14:40:44 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@72.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:50 for me, it wasn't a problem to do assignments in a language i don't like 14:40:54 "Ick! Scheme!" 14:41:05 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:41:07 -!- bougyman is now known as wget 14:41:25 -!- wget is now known as bougyman 14:41:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-205.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 14:42:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:53 When I was 18, I thought I *wanted* to learn C++. 14:43:13 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-205.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:43:25 *Xach* even got a black baseball cap and had it custom-embroidered with "C++", which got a lot of compliments from nerds 14:43:30 Xach: and then, after you had learned it? 14:44:10 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:16 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:26 js0000: no mortal can learn C++ 14:44:30 Xach: lol, me too 14:44:57 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 14:45:34 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:38 Xach: be sure to know C++0x inside-out before ratification, or your hat will be revoked! 14:45:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:45:43 Genieliu [~genie@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 14:45:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:57 *rsynnott* wonders if anyone can really claim to be a C++ expert at this point 14:46:43 even compilers can't compile it fully 14:46:55 js0000: I only learned enough to do college freshman homework with it. Don't really remember what I thought at the time. "It sure is hard to write code that compiles," maybe. 14:47:20 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:31 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A270.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:48:36 rsynnott: herb sutter? 14:48:50 'Wow, I got something to compile! Add another + to the hat!' 14:48:58 Xach: it's not too bad if you stick to a sane subset, nowadays. 14:51:02 Heh. The last time I tried to do anything with C++ on my own initiative was before they added templates to the language. 14:51:31 pkhuong: the Mozilla way ? 14:51:52 Xach: sounds right for college- dreams, disillusionment, [drunkeness] 14:52:07 the third d was "doom" 14:52:15 there has, at least, been some progress in the all important area of error messages lately 14:52:32 clang C++ now gives semi-human-readable template errors 14:52:35 anyone know lisp implementation on scheme? 14:53:00 nyef: funny enough, the first thing I ever did with C++ was template madness ;) 14:54:31 I recently rewrote a large C++ project into C. The C version was more understandable and maintainable at every point. 14:54:32 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 14:55:12 *ZabaQ* found template madness easier to cope with after exposure to CL macros. Helped me think more clearly about metaprogramming. Whether its actually *wise* is another thing.. 14:55:23 dlowe: That could just be the more-beneficial of the second-system effects. 14:55:37 -!- ramkrsna__ [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kzpwyfnopzxzulha] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:55:38 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:56:57 xivika: BBN Common Lisp was implemented in a Scheme dialect, but quite unlike anything extant. 14:57:37 amb007 [~a_bakic@72.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:46 nyef: I don't think so in this case. When I say rewrote, I mean I plugged the project into a C compiler and started fixing compile errors 14:58:03 with a lot of search and replace 14:58:32 So... in some sense a massive refactoring project, with a model-checker? 14:58:33 -!- js0000 [~js@67.208.188.68] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 14:58:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:49 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@67-194-23-156.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:59:03 fe[nl]ix: the mozilla way would be to create a new language ;) 14:59:17 where the model-checker is deliberately obtuse 14:59:41 -!- Genieliu [~genie@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:01:48 murilasso [~murilasso@187.106.12.232] has joined #lisp 15:02:41 dlowe: so it wasn't _very_ C++-ish in the first place? 15:02:55 ZabaQ: thx 15:03:33 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2378C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:56 rsynnott: it had been converted to C++ ten years ago, so it was very uneven. Some modules were entirely C++, some types relied on templates and were pervasive throughout the system. It wasn't trivial 15:04:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:36 ah 15:06:43 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@187.106.12.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:06:50 I had seen in some channels (like #Maths) that there is a special "sub-channel" where "experts" give tutorials/seminars. Do you think it would be a good idea to give some scheduled lisp seminars (with varying levels for beginners/advanced)? 15:07:04 I've since been actually rewriting it in CL, but it's taking a lot of free cycles. Been three years, now 15:07:16 Yuuhi [~user@p5483A270.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:59 francogrex: no. 15:08:08 murilasso [~murilasso@187.106.12.232] has joined #lisp 15:08:25 http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all lol 15:09:24 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@187.106.12.232] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:23 murilasso [~murilasso@187.106.12.232] has joined #lisp 15:10:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:26 that isn't real, is it?! 15:10:40 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:11:06 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@187.106.12.232] has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:23 gii love cat-v 15:11:35 rsynnott: that's an old joke 15:15:00 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:17:24 js0000 [~js@67.208.188.68] has joined #lisp 15:19:03 *ZabaQ* thinks C++ is quite a nice language, really..apart from the syntax..and the lack of a decent garbage collector..and the hobbled object model..and the fact you can break it in a million ways..and the compilers are dog slow..and...well.. 15:19:31 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:00 You know, why don't we all just go back to hacking lisp? 15:23:09 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 nyef: Yeah, I've got some Weblocks patches I need to clean up. How's it going with that paste? Does it fix the dx-closure badness? 15:24:04 AFAICT, it does. 15:24:13 I'm probably going to commit it today. 15:24:42 nyef: Awesome! 15:24:43 If you're applying it locally, remember to take the version in the annotation, so you don't get killed by recursive tail-calls. 15:25:04 nyef: I'll be lazy and wait for a release. 15:25:07 :) 15:27:42 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:24 nyef: Great suggestion! 15:29:27 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:27 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:28 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:31:52 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-87.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:08 xraycat [~Miranda@brln-4db85aca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:13 Hey guys 15:35:36 I need a thread that cleans a cache periodically 15:35:58 -!- Raykon [~user@194.210.228.127] has left #lisp 15:36:01 ideally I would like it to stop when the cache struct gets "deleted" 15:36:06 any ideas how to do that? 15:38:15 Why a separate thread to clean the cache? What sort of thing gets stored in the cache, and where is the backing store? What does it mean to "delete" the cache struct? 15:38:35 -!- reb` [~user@nat/google/x-lpqisuoimgqfbscy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:05 if *c* holds the cache, then I *would like* to be able to do (setf *c* nil) and not have any leftovers. 15:39:19 argh, emacs is not indenting defmethod properly. i wonder why. 15:39:53 Xach: you've confused it with a method combination? 15:40:11 splittist: it's as vanilla as it gets. 15:40:27 deflavor? 15:40:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:34 Its a LFU cache but it should also delete pages when they were not accessed a long time 15:40:42 Raykon [~user@194.210.228.127] has joined #lisp 15:41:11 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:32 Why do you want a /thread/ for this, though? 15:43:25 And you're caching "pages". Where are these pages normally stored? 15:44:09 well Its a generic cache 15:44:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:17 it can cache anything 15:44:35 what else would I use if not a thread? 15:44:36 -!- koning_robot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:06 Well, you could have cache cleaning be integrated into the normal cache-miss operation, for starters... 15:45:49 but then it would only be triggered if the cache is in use? 15:46:04 also slow down the cache 15:46:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-24-21.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:46:08 Our pastebot caches the body text of its pastes using weak pointers, so if nothing is holding a direct pointer to a paste body when GC occurs then it gets dumped. 15:46:21 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:21 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:46:52 how can you have a generic but performance-tuned cache? 15:47:07 by using oncurrency maybe? 15:47:19 ... by exposing the performance-tuning controls? 15:47:51 its always going to be slow if I run a cache cleansing before I return nil! 15:48:22 Concurrency just means that you now have synchronization overhead as well as everything else. 15:48:57 and that one function does not have to wait for a slow operation that has nothing to do with the function? 15:49:24 So clean up incrementally when you /add/ something to the cache? 15:49:37 gumpa_: how's that real-time GC going? 15:50:01 splittist: great I guess. 15:50:14 gumpa_: did you measure that? 15:50:17 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 15:50:23 dudes 15:50:52 Im not saying that I know what I am talking about but still, the cache should empty itself when its not used 15:51:21 and as far as I understand that cant be done without a second threadf 15:51:39 that is independant of other cache operations 15:51:43 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.176.120] has joined #lisp 15:51:50 Go for the weak pointers if you can. That way the cache will emtpy itself when the /data/ it's caching isn't being used. 15:52:15 any material on that? 15:52:24 I dont even know what weak pointers are 15:52:50 gumpa_: a pointer which isn't taken into account for garbage collection, more or less 15:53:07 ah 15:53:27 gumpa_: trivial-garbage, perhaps? 15:53:30 how do I get one, and how do I know if its still pointing to anything? 15:53:33 so if all that's referencing a given thing is a weak pointer, it can be garbage collected 15:53:53 Right. 15:54:15 And the pointer gets marked as invalid. 15:55:59 koning_robot [~aap@50-208.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #lisp 15:56:16 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:31 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:58:44 I still dont really get how to utilize weak pointers 16:00:40 gumpa_: do you have a feel for how a GC works? 16:00:57 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.32.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:30 I guess not 16:01:37 kamikaza [~kamikaza@92.53.53.67] has joined #lisp 16:01:43 I'm finally, as of about the past week, getting a feel for how an optimizing compiler works. 16:01:51 it drives in a funny truck and empties buckets with garbage 16:01:57 I imagined it knows when a value is not referenced by anything and then frees its space 16:03:18 gumpa_: OK. If it notices something is referenced ONLY by WEAK pointers, it still frees it (and marks the weak pointers as invalid). But if there is a non-weak pointer (ie. an ordinary reference) the object won't be freed (and the weak pointers still work) 16:03:23 *splittist* waves hands 16:03:32 I got that 16:03:41 There we go, then (: 16:04:13 but I dont want to free my stuff when nothing uses it, but when its hasnt been used in x minutes 16:04:24 gumpa_: why? 16:04:35 gumpa_: eventually, maybe. Maybe not. 16:04:51 is your cache accessed by something outside of the lisp image? 16:04:53 gumpa_: may I suggest you look up the design of LRU caches? That's a frequently encountered pattern, in many environments 16:04:55 splittist: to ensure that values with a lot of hits dont pollute my cache 16:05:07 gumpa_: whether you should use an LRU cache at all is a different question ofc :) 16:05:13 you're essentially looking at your own memcached implementation, then? 16:05:35 stassats: no 16:06:09 ... why not have the cache-cleaning thread destroy itself if the cache is empty, and have adding an item to the cache recreate the cleaning thread if it's been destroyed? 16:06:25 gumpa: Then use weak-pointers and keep strong pointers in a priority queue. 16:06:46 gumpa: Pop the strong pointers at the appropriate time and off you go. 16:06:57 After you destroy the last outside reference to the cache, the cleaner thread will keep it alive for a while, but will eventually completely scrub the cache, destroy itself, and allow the GC to destroy the cache. 16:07:12 nyef: sounds good 16:07:27 nyef: thats actually exactly the kind of solution I looked for :) 16:07:32 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:38 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:38 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.85] has joined #lisp 16:08:52 -!- lonesomerider [~lonesomer@188.123.252.26] has left #lisp 16:09:59 that doesn't sound simple or cheap at al 16:09:59 Harag [~Harag@41.56.26.163] has joined #lisp 16:10:02 l 16:10:51 No, but you can't expect a generic cache to be performant anyway, right? 16:11:13 pnq [~nick@AC81B540.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:16 sounds simple and cheap to me^^ 16:11:16 gumpa_: have you considered serialisation and using memcached? 16:11:17 -!- mitre_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 16:11:38 memcached does what you want for you already, so if the things being cached are easily serialisable, it may be an option 16:12:03 not for me, I do this for fun 16:12:24 gumpa_: spawning native threads isn't cheap 16:12:28 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:12:37 making them play together nicely isn't simple 16:12:54 stassats: why are they so much more expensive than, say, green threads? 16:12:59 I only need to spawn a thread, whenever the cache is empty 16:13:05 I only have one thread 16:13:13 it does not have to communicate with anything 16:13:28 ... Yes it does. 16:13:50 Your cache object has to remain consistent across two threads during cache access and cache cleaning. 16:13:54 sykopomp: on many operating systems, threads are treated almost as processes, which adds a penalty to start with 16:14:09 sykopomp: i guess because they're autonomous they need more data 16:14:12 nyef: that is done behind my scenes right? 16:14:13 and then you need a bunch of state per thread, and so on 16:14:36 gumpa_: Yes, but it's still done. 16:15:01 And if you're going to try anything cute with lock-free operation be very careful with your memory barriers. 16:15:27 CallToPower [~CallToPow@xdsl-92-252-40-197.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:17:17 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:29 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:20:22 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:25 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:25:47 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:55 and when you go there think about ordering in pipelines and that bugger called "SMT"? 16:27:56 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:08 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:30:15 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 16:36:54 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 -!- kamikaza [~kamikaza@92.53.53.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:39:34 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:43:45 nyef: what are memory barriers? 16:44:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:45:28 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 16:47:10 Bronsa [~Bronsa@host165-185-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:48:11 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118796 there is probably abn easy way to do this? 16:50:10 francogrex: funcall. 16:51:12 also, looks like shuffling around the argument list a bit would let you do (hexarithmetics '+ "deadbeef" "cafebabe" "abcdef") 16:51:17 that is, multiple operands. 16:52:45 I don't quite get you, sorry. Would the operand be in the arg list? 16:54:22 -!- __hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:41 -!- Raykon [~user@194.210.228.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:54:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118796#1 is what I'm thinking about 16:54:53 francogrex: (funcall arithmetic-operator ...) 16:55:00 Maybe. 16:55:03 he means that doing it that way would allow you to use your hexarithmetics in the same way that you can use (+ 1 2 3) <- with more than 2 arguments 16:55:06 that is, variadic 16:55:11 right (: 16:55:49 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.148] has joined #lisp 16:56:38 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 16:56:57 hmm 16:57:29 so something like: (write-to-string (funcall #'+ (parse-integer str-1 :radix 16) (parse-integer str-2 :radix 16)) :base 16) 16:57:48 yeah, that would be pretty much exactly what you asked for 16:58:18 and the user will insert str-1, str-2 etc within the code 16:59:15 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 17:00:10 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.191.21] has joined #lisp 17:00:38 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:45 well, you mean (funcall arithmetic-operator... right? 17:01:53 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC2378C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:01 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:02:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.176.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:02:37 gko [~gko@111.70.88.1] has joined #lisp 17:04:12 *moore33* waves to antifuchs 17:04:19 hi moore33! 17:04:26 fancy seeing you here (: 17:04:47 Yeah, the flightgear irc server is down, so we're hanging out on freenode :) 17:04:54 haha 17:05:07 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:09 Thought I'd see what's going on. 17:05:43 lots of stuff! quicklisp is here, people are working on lisp stuff, there's a growing momentum behind games in lisp, ... (: 17:05:46 rien_ yes. I was looking to see if there is a way to for example insert the symbol + (or * etc) in an arg list of defun and have it execute the within the body 17:06:21 (Growing momentum? #lispgames channel population is still only 36.) 17:06:39 nyef: forget irc channel size, people are releasing software (: 17:06:41 well, dto is (; 17:06:47 Ahh. Fair enough. 17:06:48 hi 17:07:01 antifuchs: i'm messing with blender. 17:07:17 antifuchs: is there any way to hear the gabor melis presentation without GoToMeeting? 17:07:20 antifuchs: Cool. I looked in on cl-opengl; looks like they fixed many of the things that led me to keep my own bindings (glouton) going for a while. My name is better, though :) 17:08:03 dto: wait for the recording to go up, I guess 17:08:10 :) 17:08:18 I'm not going to listen to it live, will pick his brains next week (: 17:08:38 moore33: it definitely is better (-: 17:10:32 antifuchs: I saw the annotation. thanks 17:11:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:38 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:11:38 http://84.110.54.199/ for a silly hack I put up yesterday in <2h 17:11:46 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:12:04 How do I get SBCL to accept a degree symbol ° (in a comment) and not get this: Character decoding error in a ;-comment at position 12207 reading source stream ... resyncing? 17:13:28 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:47 LiamH: (setf sb-impl::*default-external-format* :utf-8) in your .sbclrc 17:14:05 adeht: nice! 17:14:11 adeht: make it <3h (-: 17:14:33 adeht: typing fast seems to trigger searches for shorter terms; might want a timeout there 17:14:35 fe[nl]ix: does sbcl create standard streams before or after reading .sbclrc? 17:14:44 antifuchs: yeah 17:14:59 fe[nl]ix: it's already set to that 17:15:06 __hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 17:15:20 LiamH: but is your file in utf-8? 17:15:24 antifuchs: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118780 was the code (remember: a hack ;) 17:15:42 stassats: How do I determine that? 17:15:47 adeht: with a bit of polish, that could be very useful 17:16:42 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:51 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:29 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:20:01 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-209-2-239-12.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:20:27 rme [~user@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:15 antifuchs: yeah.. could work on it some more 17:21:16 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:25 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:21:43 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 17:23:13 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81B540.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:38 -!- __hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:55 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:47 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has joined #lisp 17:27:41 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@xdsl-92-252-40-197.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: > /dev/null 2>&1] 17:29:12 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:16 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:22 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:43 adeht: much cool for a <2h hack. 17:35:04 adeht: are the sources public ? 17:35:25 fe[nl]ix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118780 17:36:00 iwillig_ [~iwillig@dyn-209-2-239-12.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:36:03 -!- iwillig_ [~iwillig@dyn-209-2-239-12.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:03 fe[nl]ix: but I should really use redis or something for the data store 17:36:39 __hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 17:38:00 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-rxoplazfwybmuhzu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:38:39 lonesomerider [~lonesomer@host-93-182-3-197.real.kvidex.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:14 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00242f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:40:21 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:40:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:40:28 antifuchs: added timer 17:40:37 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:41:10 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 cool! 17:42:21 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:44:20 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 17:45:25 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 17:45:58 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:46:37 CallToPower [~CallToPow@xdsl-92-252-40-197.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:45 Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:09 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-85.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:53:08 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@18.83-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:00 jdz [~jdz@host151-111-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:54:04 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:54:20 milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe895.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]] 17:57:23 -!- eno__ [~eno@adsl-70-137-134-172.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:58:09 Ines [~user@194.210.228.127] has joined #lisp 17:58:26 -!- Ines [~user@194.210.228.127] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:59:27 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:28 aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has joined #lisp 18:04:15 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-10-228.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 18:04:53 -!- aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has left #lisp 18:06:25 Adlai__ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:31 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:37 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:11:31 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-209-2-239-12.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:21 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:12:34 I tried to load cl-mysql with (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-mysql) but I get error "Unable to load foreign library (LIBMYSQLCLIENT). 18:12:34 Could not register handle for external module LIBMYSQLCLIENT". Mysql is installed, I use Lispworks on Windows. 18:13:45 prljavi_hari: lispworks have an excellent mailing list full of very supportive, helpful people. 18:14:21 -!- Adlai__ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:14:21 -!- Adlai_ [~leif@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:14:48 ok 18:15:21 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:15:48 redline6561 [~user@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:15:56 But I think it's not connected to Lispworks 18:16:48 prljavi_hari: did you know lispworks has its own mysql module? 18:17:01 no 18:17:15 prljavi_hari: Maybe it would be easier to use than a third-party mysql library, if you are using LispWorks. 18:18:16 ok, I'll try clozure/emacs to see what's happening 18:19:25 prljavi_hari: I have no idea what your last comment means, but the cl-mysql homepage says LW support is a work in progress. 18:19:53 (and doesn't mention ccl at all) 18:19:53 I know 18:20:56 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21:27 it isn't cl-mysql that important, I just need some connection to database 18:21:54 cl-sql is too complicated, I think 18:22:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:29 anx simple solution out there ? 18:22:51 use postgres with postmodern instead 18:23:04 ok 18:23:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:24:04 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:04 well, now it's redis-backed ;) 18:25:42 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:46 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:02 adeht: the dependency hell! 18:27:58 :depends-on (#:hunchentoot #:yaclml #:parenscript #:css-lite #:constantia #:cl-ppcre #:alexandria #:sb-md5 #:babel #:lredis) 18:28:29 although it's likely I should switch to ironclad or just not use hashing for ids 18:29:17 constantia? 18:29:52 Xach: http://github.com/death/constantia 18:30:28 ah 18:31:13 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:29 Xach: do you know why clsql-sqlite3 in ql might be looking for a non-existent /usr/lib/libc.so? 18:31:37 LiamH: no. 18:32:05 Do people prefer (CHAR= vrbl #\x) or (CHAR= #\x vrbl)? 18:32:07 LiamH: it's existent for me. 18:32:20 splittist: that sounds like a noise a cat might make. 18:32:28 splittist: "vrbl"? 18:32:39 splittist: I think I usually go for the latter 18:33:06 OK - I meant, do people prefer the variable before the constant or vice versa? Thanks adeht. 18:33:15 Xach: really? Mine is a short text file pointing to the true location, /lib/libc.so.6. Usually Debian is pretty good about using standardized locations. 18:33:40 splittist: although from grepping I see it's not something I'm consistent about ;) 18:33:59 Yoda coding to Lisp comes. 18:34:15 splittist: I usually put the variable first, although there are exceptions. 18:35:53 LiamH: loads fine on my debian systems, sorry. 18:36:17 LiamH: on both those systems /usr/lib/libc.so is a ld script. 18:36:35 Xach: right, that's what I have 18:37:27 So it seems like that might not be the culprit? 18:37:32 Xach: Is your arch 64 or 32 bit? 18:38:03 LiamH: one is 64, one is 32 18:39:08 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:39:31 Mine is 64; here's what I get http://paste.lisp.org/+2JO3 18:40:10 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:40:11 It looks like it's trying to build a 32 bit library 18:41:41 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:50 I don't see an error there. Did something go wrong? 18:41:59 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:42:05 Does clsql-sqlite3 not work? 18:42:29 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:42:38 Xach: yeah, I'm thinking it actually did load OK. 18:43:00 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:43:03 -!- redline6561 [~user@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:17 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:43:17 I first interpreted those messages as errors in clsql-sqlite3. 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quit [*.net *.split] 19:13:49 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:13:49 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-leibxqbifjnhdybd] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:13:49 -!- akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:13:49 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:13:49 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:14:11 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:15:59 d'oh... it misses up the printer alright, but only in SLIME?!? 19:17:27 slyrus_: how so? 19:18:24 carlocci [~nes@93.37.178.124] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 gko [~gko@111.70.46.34] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has 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[~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-leibxqbifjnhdybd] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 devn [~defn@rot13.pbqr.org] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 HerbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:31 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:18:36 -!- erk_ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:18:44 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:18:45 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:19:02 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118804 19:19:16 Nice. A netsplit that didn't end up disconnecting the bots. 19:19:40 nyef: nickserv became inaccessible during the netsplit. Does that count? 19:19:58 erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 19:19:58 OUR bots. 19:20:06 okay okay 19:20:39 slyrus_: that is funky 19:21:01 yeah, and I have to redefine the class _after_ printing an fset set before I see the behavior 19:21:32 -!- rme [user@clozure-1F3CDCA9.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:21:32 -!- rme [~user@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:55 ISTR some other ugly printing every now and then before using fset, so perhaps fset either isn't to blame or is firing some more common trigger 19:22:12 or, who knows, fset's printer functions might be doing something hinky 19:22:46 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has joined #lisp 19:23:36 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-189.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:06 slyrus_: have you tried this with a standard pprint table? 19:24:43 pkhuong: I'm not exactly sure what you're asking 19:24:49 out of the gate, it prints fine 19:25:18 that'll help you know if it's print-object or the pretty printer that's messed up. 19:26:55 -!- sm` [s@77.28.118.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:28:35 so squirrel away the *print-pprint-dispatch* table, run my test and then reset the *print-pprint-dispatch* table and see if the problem is still there? 19:29:46 or just with-standard-io-syntax 19:31:03 oh, that's interesting... it gets farther and farther to the right each time I print 19:31:11 sm` [s@77.29.18.34] has joined #lisp 19:31:29 Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 19:32:15 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 hmm... # cannot be printed readably. 19:32:38 Raykonn [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 19:32:42 when I do: (with-standard-io-syntax (print (make-instance 'foo-bar))) 19:33:08 slyrus_: that's true. you have to make sure *print-readably* is set to nil. 19:33:10 that is true 19:33:35 has any of you tried programming common lisp in acme? 19:33:55 -!- huehnts [~huehnts@static.213-239-210-158.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: quitting] 19:34:00 -!- Raykonn [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has left #lisp 19:34:33 huehnts [~huehnts@static.213-239-210-158.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:37 valium97582: sounds like you're in a niche of one person. 19:34:59 -!- Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has left #lisp 19:35:05 pkhuong: nope, I am just curious about it, I don't even like it 19:35:33 bencc [~user@bzq-84-111-72-192.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:55 some even write lisp in vi, so i won't be surprised much 19:39:44 mrb69 [~bbsjaa@190.213.228.12] has joined #lisp 19:40:01 ok, well I can remove the fset dependency... 19:40:19 perhaps my SLIME is broken 19:41:33 -!- mrb69 [~bbsjaa@190.213.228.12] has left #lisp 19:41:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118804#1 19:42:30 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:43:57 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:42 stassats: let's use ed :P 19:47:06 any SLIME users able to reproduce my pprint problem? 19:47:08 slyrus_: that's possible 19:47:25 just updated to SLIME head, no changes... 19:47:51 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2378C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:39 and here it is on another box (linux x86-64 this time) so it's not some weird local config thing... 19:48:41 slyrus_: can you paste *slime-events*? 19:49:51 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@193.84.77.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:44 -!- valium97582 is now known as new-lisper 19:50:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118804#2 19:50:50 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:55 -!- new-lisper is now known as valium97582 19:52:11 ok, the problem is not on the elisp side 19:52:47 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-10-228.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 19:54:47 slyrus_: can you try with with-output-to-string? 19:55:41 that works fine 19:57:33 too bad i can't reproduce it 19:59:11 i'd begin with looking in swank-gray.lisp, whether it gets wrong data 20:00:50 hmm... did I try the (write (make-instance ...) 4 or 5 times before giving up? 20:00:55 the first few times it looks OK 20:02:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:40 you don't use presentations, let me try without them too 20:04:54 ok, reproduced 20:05:16 now i can hunt it down 20:05:25 cool, thanks! 20:06:02 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-230-158.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:09:32 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.14.66] has joined #lisp 20:10:16 _ism [~frinnn@i59F62767.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:33 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 20:10:36 hmm... (terpri) seems to reset the problem such that it goes away until 4 or 5 more writes 20:10:49 perhaps we're not recognizing that a return has been fired? 20:11:52 and, on a related note, we see this only with (write ...) not when evaluating the object directly 20:13:04 -!- ttb [~frinnn@i59F61AA9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:13:45 this seems to happen only with write or princ, they don't insert a newline 20:14:49 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.134.160] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:15:21 ok, i reproduced in a bare sbcl 20:15:31 (defclass foo-bar () ()) (loop repeat 10 do (write (make-instance 'foo-bar))) 20:16:04 wacky. 20:16:42 same with cmucl. old bug? 20:17:03 though i guess slime still should reset column to 0 after evaluation 20:19:33 and with ACL 20:24:40 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 20:25:04 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00242f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:52 -!- milkpost [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe895.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:56 milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe895.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:27:15 mephisto_ [~mephisto@dsl-67-204-45-69.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:32 phao [~phao@189.107.196.249] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 -!- lonesomerider [~lonesomer@host-93-182-3-197.real.kvidex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:28 i guess it just tries to indent everything 20:36:39 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 20:36:40 with pprint-newline :fill, and it doesn't fit, and it newlines, and it doesn't fit, and it puts another newline 20:38:10 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:27 longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:24 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:48:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has joined #lisp 20:49:20 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:51:15 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 20:51:31 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:48 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-169-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:13 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:55:14 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.87.61.212] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:55:31 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-168-94.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:55:40 -!- Bronsa [~Bronsa@host165-185-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:49 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:57:41 astoon [~astoon@178.130.1.36] has joined #lisp 20:58:36 -!- joeygibson [~joeygibso@208.52.139.50] has left #lisp 20:59:03 -!- __hramrach [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:09 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E61D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:16 H4ns [~user@pD4B9E61D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:11 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:01:15 -!- splittist [~John@19-63.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Productivity hits new low.] 21:02:42 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:49 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.14.66] has quit [Quit: ] 21:04:02 hramrach_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hramrach] has joined #lisp 21:04:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:58 EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.197.238] has joined #lisp 21:05:21 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@79.124.197.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:44 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:05:54 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@72.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:07:37 amb007 [~a_bakic@72.17.97-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:00 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:13:44 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-149-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:15:45 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:19:52 Any bordeaux-threads hackers around? 21:23:02 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-231-47-70.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:27:30 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:43 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:30:40 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.196.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38:25 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:39:23 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-237.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:39:43 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-237.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-071-075-085-085.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:18 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-149-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:41:30 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:56 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:43:30 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:21 mephist__ [~mephisto@dsl-67-204-62-55.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:31 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@dsl-67-204-45-69.acanac.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:47:21 luis: herep 21:48:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@178.130.1.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:51 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:24 fe[nl]ix: have you looked into adding semaphores to BT? 21:53:13 nope 21:55:09 Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has joined #lisp 21:55:32 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:55:38 most implementations should have semaphores right? 21:56:47 sbcl and ccl do 21:56:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:57:04 -!- xraycat [~Miranda@brln-4db85aca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: xraycat] 21:57:38 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:57:47 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:57:49 Most implementations with semaphores should have memory barriers, right? 21:57:55 -!- mephist__ [~mephisto@dsl-67-204-62-55.acanac.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:41 luis: clisp and cmucl don't seems to have 'em 21:58:53 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:47 nyef: haven't seen any :) 22:00:09 Good morning everyone! 22:00:13 At least two implementations do. 22:00:18 hi beach 22:00:23 One of them might have been scieneer, though. 22:00:30 -!- mahata [~mahata@e0109-49-132-2-86.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:35 And the other one? 22:00:38 morning beach 22:01:15 SBCL. It was required for the PPC-threads work. 22:02:35 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:31 *luis* finds SBCL's BARRIER macro. 22:04:33 Cool. 22:04:53 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.26.163] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 22:05:22 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.191.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:34 nyef: I thought SBCL's compiler didn't reorder memory accesses. Is the compiler barrier there for completeness or has that changed? 22:06:03 Umm... I forget? 22:06:14 Might actually be there for completeness. 22:06:57 There's one or two barriers that tend to just be compiled straight out, but are there to complete the model. 22:07:50 One of them is there in case someone wants to have threading work on alpha. 22:08:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.182.171] has joined #lisp 22:08:38 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-113-22.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:09:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:26 "Just in case." 22:12:05 Well, okay, it's in case /I/ get an alpha. 22:12:35 But I certainly wouldn't be upset if anyone else with an alpha wants to do the work. 22:14:36 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:14:42 astoon [~astoon@178.130.1.36] has joined #lisp 22:16:00 lol, "anyone else with an alpha" 22:17:35 -!- Raykon [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:3615:9eff:fe97:888b] has left #lisp 22:18:12 Yeah, I know, pretty much gone the way of the HPPA. 22:18:18 mattrepl [~mattrepl@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 22:21:05 *stassats* hopes that anyone with an ARM could do something 22:21:52 the intersection of "SBCL users" and "Alpha owners" may be only Krystof ATM 22:22:22 stassats: Maybe, but the ARM doesn't require that data-dependency barrier, does it? 22:22:28 (Does it?) 22:22:36 i meant "something at all" 22:23:12 I actually have had the arm-port log open in emacs for more than a month now, but haven't been doing anything with it. 22:23:15 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:28 fe[nl]ix: you mean { Krystof } 22:23:40 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 22:23:47 Heh! 22:23:52 -!- rafl [rafl@goatse.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:05 rafl [rafl@goatse.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:24:45 Is there a way to have the result of slime-eval-last-expression (or some similar command) appear in the *slime-repl* buffer, rather than in the minibuffer or in the .lisp buffer itself? 22:24:52 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:29 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:26 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:20 -!- sm` [s@77.29.18.34] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- twem2 [~twem2@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-123-254.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:30:21 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1677.versanet.de] has quit [*.net 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22:32:59 benny [~benny@i577A1677.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 og [foobar@puck.ogr.no] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 HDurer_home [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 HerbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 devn [~defn@rot13.pbqr.org] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-leibxqbifjnhdybd] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:49 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:35:15 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:51 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:36:41 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36:54 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:25 -!- fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:37:33 I don't own an alpha 22:37:50 froydnj was the alpha owner a while back 22:37:59 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:01 and dan, I suppose 22:38:11 oh yes 22:38:13 happy days 22:38:46 irc as handy clipboar 22:38:47 d 22:38:53 I checked in the tail-local-call fix, btw. 22:40:35 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:41:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:59 I saw 22:42:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:30 I have the message saying "nothing's happened in sbcl since mid-December" tagged in my sbcl-devel buffer, waiting for me to find the time to say "I have no time at all to do anything sbcl-related" 22:42:33 -!- _ism is now known as ttb 22:44:17 Aisling [ash@blk-222-193-52.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 22:45:27 not enough new blood 22:46:07 I have a commit series that probably needs a bit of touching up before it can go in, but... I didn't want to check it in with a major bug like tail-local-calls still causing trouble, and it's now fairly late in the development cycle so if anything goes wrong... 22:48:42 Is Dan Barlow still around? 22:49:04 he does ruby on rails development nowadays, as far as I can tell from his twitter feed 22:49:13 hasn't been around in a while 22:49:17 ... 22:51:21 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:27 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:08 http://metaleks.net/programming/the-evolution-of-a-python-programmer 22:53:24 Python, the compiler? 22:53:39 no, the language 22:53:46 then this is off-topic 22:54:02 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 Okay, but I have an on-topic contribution. 22:54:11 programming humor is offtopic? :( 22:54:12 meh 22:54:21 Kovensky: unless it's lisp-specific, yeah 22:55:10 minion: paste 118815? 22:55:10 Paste number 118815: "A test case I wrote for the tail-local-call bug in the python compiler for SBCL" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/118815 22:55:12 You are allowed to insult other languages. 22:55:30 moore33: that's borderline off-topic (; 22:55:39 jeez 22:56:40 harsh, I know (: 22:57:11 (The original had &optional (total 0), but it turned out to defeat the dynamic-extentness, due to the optional-dispatch... And even in my current tree optional-dispatch might cause problems with XEPs... Have to test that.) 22:59:04 -!- mascotte [~mascotte_@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-18-189.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:59:24 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6CDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:08 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:03:52 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-230-158.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:07 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 23:08:17 javuchi [~noname@105.Red-95-123-193.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:19 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.10.141] has joined #lisp 23:09:52 -!- javuchi [~noname@105.Red-95-123-193.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:10:40 javuchi [~noname@105.Red-95-123-193.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:56 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 23:11:26 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:55 -!- longshot [~longshot@174.36.149.237-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:11:56 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 23:13:38 moore33: Good to see you back a little more regularly. Looking for some Lisp-related stuff to do? I have plenty to suggest! 23:15:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.182.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:32 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 23:19:03 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:19:22 pnq [~nick@ACA23B63.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:53 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:20:53 beach: Heh, I'm sure. I'm pretty busy these days, but I like to look in on my old haunts. 23:21:55 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-27-129.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:22:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@host151-111-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:22:19 beach: What are you working on these days? 23:23:21 redline6` [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:00 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:24:01 -!- redline6` [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:39 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:25:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:25:31 I'll take my answer off the air; I need to crash. Good night. 23:26:39 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:26:42 -!- milkpost_ [~milkpost@dhcpw81ffe895.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:27:20 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:26 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-81-150.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:44 good night, moore33 23:36:39 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:19 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:38:15 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:00 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:41:27 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:45 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:42:50 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:43:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-183-205.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:43:39 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:48 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 23:45:55 -!- brickhazel [~brickhaze@63-144-132-78.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:07 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:47:04 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:47:40 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:55 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:48:19 Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has joined #lisp 23:50:44 is gsll my best option for matrix operations in cl? 23:50:54 adamvh [~adamvh@adsl-99-103-186-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:39 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:11 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:56:19 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:47 brickhazel [~brickhaze@63-144-132-78.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:49 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #lisp 23:57:00 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:05 There are several lisp packages for matrix operations. 23:57:29 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:57:43 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-227-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:58:27 hi fe[nl]ix