00:00:45 gigamonkey: *to* Common Lisp 00:00:51 gigamonkey: heh. I found that writing a CL implemntation in CL is truly interesting :) 00:01:05 Hexstream: iiuc, find does search in [:start, :end) 00:01:08 the backend itself might be in common lisp 00:01:36 taking the IR from the compiler 00:01:43 pmurias: to be fair, your project looks incredibly ambitious 00:02:27 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-63-251.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 00:02:28 prxq: Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. 00:02:40 <_3b> isn't there already a perl6 -> cl thing? 00:03:21 Hexstream: what I am saying is that by introducing negative indices, you are sort of declaring the sequence to be periodic, no? 00:03:26 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:32 It seems there's unfortunately no way to implement this without breaking at least one of the strong usual conventions. 00:04:11 Define "periodic" in this context?... 00:04:36 I guess the bounds would have to be inclusive when the index is from the end. 00:05:24 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:05:47 Hexstream: periodic in this context means that the neighbor to the right of the formally last element in your sequence is the first one, etc. 00:06:15 _3b: a few dead ones 00:06:37 Yeah, it's a bit of a "wrap around" thing. 00:06:48 Hexstream: I can imagine (find 1 '(1 2 3) :start 1 :end 1) returning 3 :-) 00:07:09 Uh? Not me.. 00:07:41 make that :startee :endee 00:08:05 prxq: maybe you mean position 00:08:22 adeht: ah you are right 00:08:49 and it would return 2 00:09:01 *prxq* is confused 00:09:19 Then :startee 1 :endee 1 would be the same as :start 1 :end 1. The new semantics only apply for negative arguments. And the usual :start and :end would be available with their usual semantics. 00:09:47 it doesn't strike me as particularly elegant to use negative integers to represent positions in a sequence 00:09:49 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:05 adeht: Me neither, actually. 00:10:53 Hehe 00:11:04 It would be nicer to use appropriate fields for that 00:11:06 Hexstream: so, what would :startee 1 : endee -1 refer to? 00:11:09 Python and Ruby use it though 00:11:45 prxq: Same as :start 1 :end nil 00:11:45 prxq in Ruby and Python it refers to string.substring(1, string.length() - 1); 00:12:13 -1 represents the position at the end of the string 00:12:15 -!- Kaek [~b@c-7ecbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:13:01 -n where n is natural, gives you the position length - n + 1 I think 00:14:10 qfr: not length - n? 00:14:33 adeht: Nope, otherwise you not be able to address the full length 00:14:44 since 0 to -1 would lack one byte 00:14:45 and the end 00:14:54 and 0 to 0 yields '' 00:15:12 Another possibility would be something like :startfe 1 :endfe 3 (fe as in From End). In this case, If we have a sequence of length 8, that would mean elements... Hum... again not as intuitive as I thought ;P Elements 5 and 6. 00:15:16 hence the need for the offset of 1 in this hack 00:15:24 I don't think it's elegant but I use it a lot 00:15:25 qfr: "qfr"[-1] ==> "r" in python/ruby 00:15:30 Yep 00:15:52 qfr: i.e. "qfr"[len("qfr")-1] 00:16:14 That's not the range notation though 00:16:14 irb(main):001:0> 'abc'[1..-1] 00:16:14 => "bc" 00:16:16 >>> 'abc'[1 : -1] 00:16:16 'b' 00:16:35 Oh damn, I forgot that Python did it in another way 00:16:43 I already stumbled upon this a few days ago 00:16:50 And I already forgot about it again 00:16:59 I've been out of touch with Python for the past year or so 00:17:20 >>> 'abc'[1 : 0] 00:17:21 '' 00:17:33 qfr: looks rather silly doesn't it 00:17:34 Hmm how do you access c then using the range notation? 00:17:47 Maybe Ruby was smarter there... hmm 00:17:48 qfr: 'abc'[1:] 00:17:54 AHH 00:17:56 Of course 00:18:08 I so forgot about that 00:18:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:52 Note to self: don't make jokes about Alzheimer's. 00:19:18 Why not? 00:19:21 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:30 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:19:43 One of my grandmothers is getting quite senile, she frequently calls me random names 00:19:44 It's a serious, irreversible disease. :-/ 00:19:52 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:55 Sometimes I'm one of my cousins 00:20:06 Or even her dead husband 00:20:27 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:35 I don't even know her age, something between 90 and 100 00:20:46 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-38-201.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:22:10 I have an idea that's actually kinda intuitive this time, I think. :anchor and :spread or something. Like, :anchor 4 :spread -2 would mean the same as :start 2 :end 5, and :anchor -2 :spread -2 would be the same as, for an 8-element sequence, :start 5 :end 7. Again it's not immediately intuitive but maybe it would be good with practice. 00:22:26 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:34 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:22:34 Survived two world wars, that must have sucked, both in Germany :P 00:22:36 Anyway, I'll just put these features on ice for now. They're not nearly as intuitive and useful-sounding as I thought. 00:22:56 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:23 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.13.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:25:49 Hexstream: I did something like that in https://github.com/xach/page-ranges 00:26:00 xinming [~hyy@122.238.77.27] has joined #lisp 00:26:46 Xach: Cool! I would have thought you'd hate such a feature with a passion. 00:28:12 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e9b8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:20 Hexstream: Your intuition is broken. 00:30:46 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:31:27 How does one find the first occurrence of a character in a string? First occurrence of '3' in "abc123def" ? 00:31:40 clhs position 00:32:09 -!- mheld [~mheld@74.61.205.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:10 Ah ok cool. 00:32:43 Xach: My reasoning was: "Xach seems like a bit of an hardcore pragmatist, so I'd expect him to say something like: " 00:33:41 Hexstream: Being a pragmatist means disliking statements like "My new idea will DESTROY the old idea!" 00:33:58 Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #lisp 00:34:13 Well, it won't be the first time someone dislikes a statement that finally turns out to be true in the end. 00:34:52 I won't give LOOP a chance. I'll steal all its great features, make them even better, and drop almost all the problems it has (you know, the ones you personally don't give a shit about). 00:36:53 Oh, and there will be a few interesting features that I'm pretty confident LOOP will never have, too. But that's enough hype for tonight. 00:37:37 qfr: Not surviving a war would have sucked more ;) 00:37:44 Yeah 00:38:00 But it must have sucked for her anyways, shortage of food etc 00:38:24 And many nights spent in air raid bunkers, especially in WW2 00:38:36 in WW1 they didn't bomb much yet afaik 00:38:43 Airplanes were still pretty new back then 00:38:54 -!- Oejet [~oejet@212.45.122.120] has left #lisp 00:39:03 But in WW2 they bombed entire cities to ashes 00:39:09 they did some bombing in WWI 00:39:23 I think it was mostly, the plane would fly over, the pilot would toss a bomb out of the cockpit 00:39:32 Maybe you could talk about it in some other channel. 00:39:42 Sorry 00:39:58 It's better than listening to people bitch about LOOP again :) 00:40:03 Haha 00:40:56 It's at least arguably on topic ;P 00:42:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-15.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:59 I am sick to death of knee-jerk anti-LOOPism and I am beginning to irrationally regard it as a plot to disable me as a programmer by excommunicating my useful tools. 00:43:12 My Lisp-powered chart got some nice press: http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/12/2010_box_office_chart.html 00:43:29 Hang on, I can't recall: Hexstream are you the author of Loopless? 00:43:36 Yes... 00:43:40 adeht, we should make our own version of loopless that just expands into (loop) 00:43:47 Ah, well, at least there's not another one running around. 00:43:56 Haha ;P 00:45:21 Xach: congrats 00:45:24 Don't diss it too much, the next version will take the whole CL community by storm. Unless I'm seriously overestimating the effects of technical superiority on adoption. 00:45:41 Technical superiority has worked well for CL. 00:46:54 erlastar [~user@158.227.185.177] has joined #lisp 00:46:56 I can't tell if that's a joke or not. In what sense? You mean CL versus the other Lisps?... 00:47:35 i think he means in general... 00:47:41 Hexstream: what are you refering to? 00:47:55 Hexstream: you made something called Loopless ? 00:48:29 Yes. But the current version is shitty. It's not "provably much better" than LOOP, unlike the next version. 00:48:34 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.77.27] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:48:57 TOING 00:51:43 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:52:03 -!- erlastar [~user@158.227.185.177] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:53:34 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:54:59 -!- redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:10 https://github.com/xach/wormtrails has code to produce similar charts. 00:57:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:57:57 Ah, surely you meant that technically superior solutions are quickly adopted in the CL community. At first I thought you meant that the superiority of CL compared to other languages did well for its popularity... And since it's still a somewhat "obscure" language, my head exploded and I thought it was a joke or something. 01:00:33 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.205] has joined #lisp 01:00:52 -!- Guest76775 is now known as xristos 01:04:36 Anyone know if there's a cryptographically-secure RNG routine for common lisp out there? 01:05:37 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.242.79.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:30 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:09:29 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:36 vlion: http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=random 01:09:47 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 01:10:04 xinming [~hyy@115.221.6.52] has joined #lisp 01:10:12 -!- pmurias [~pawel@static-78-8-208-43.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:11:47 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B84B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:13:52 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-47-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:40 -!- jeti [~user@p54B47458.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:16:51 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:18:58 vlion: in any case, it's not a big deal to write, say, a blum-blum-shub prng 01:20:59 vlion: do you want a cryptographically good RNG or a CPRNG? 01:23:54 CPRNG 01:24:15 http://www.burtleburtle.net/bob/rand/isaacafa.html, which has a Common Lisp implementation 01:24:20 I found that 01:26:45 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:39 well, I'm not an expert, but it looked better than RC4 01:27:42 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:26 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.52.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29:34 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:31:17 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:31:41 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:32:18 you might find something in ironclad as well 01:32:52 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 01:33:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:33:07 Didn't look like Ironclad had a RNG, but I might use it elsewhere. 01:39:58 -!- espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-116-238.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:46:15 espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:46:23 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:50:03 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:53:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:39 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:57:44 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:07 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BD2A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:07 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:01:42 -!- fgump [~gump@cnat109.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:01:57 -!- unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has left #lisp 02:05:53 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:09:39 why not use /dev/urandom for an RNG? 02:10:25 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 02:11:16 cross-platform app 02:11:53 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 02:13:38 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:20:48 rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:24:22 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:28:12 necroforest: /dev/urandom is usually for seeding, though 02:30:25 really? 02:30:35 daganu [~david@24.Red-88-2-45.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:38 I was under the impression it was used directly for random bits in crypto applications. 02:30:57 Windows has a /dev/urandom equivalent in the WIN32 API 02:31:08 emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:09 Hello, is there keybinding in emacs-lisp-mode to jump to the definition of function? 02:31:34 Like C-h f and pushing on the file name... 02:31:35 necroforest: you seed a proper, tested RNG with entropy from it 02:31:35 M-. 02:31:41 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6E1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:32 gko: also, for emacs lisp, go to #emacs. SLIME uses M-. to jump to definition and M-, to return, but I have no idea about emacs lisp 02:32:57 Oh, sorry, wrong window :) 02:36:40 -!- daganu [~david@24.Red-88-2-45.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:36:58 daganu [~david@24.Red-88-2-45.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:12 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:39:21 -!- daganu [~david@24.Red-88-2-45.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:35 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BD2A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:06 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:47:24 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:17 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-39-163.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:52 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:53:18 rfg 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[~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-24-2.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36:08 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-45.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:37:20 -!- fgump [~gump@cnat109.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:42:21 emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:33 -!- tmh [635b087a@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:44:47 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:17 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:55 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:50 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 06:01:01 Is there a (member) function for strings? Or do I have to do a manual string= ? 06:01:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:22 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:54 <_3b> do you mean (member ... :test 'string=) ? or are you looking for something in a string? 06:02:07 sea4ever: find and position 06:02:20 the elements in strings are characters. 06:02:58 Um no I meant like this: (member "sea" '("fish" "cat" "dog" "sea" "cow")) 06:03:07 It works with integers, symbols, etc. but not with strings. 06:03:18 sea4ever: :test (function equal) , equalp, string= string-equal, etc. 06:03:46 Oh you can do that? 06:04:05 sea4ever: eql works with strings too: (let* ((lists '("fish" "cat" "dog" "sea" "cow")) (str (third lists))) (member str lists)) 06:05:34 sea4ever: notice that (string= 'hello "HELLO") but (not (equal 'hello "HELLO")), so you may want to use :test (function equal) instead of :test (function string=). 06:06:07 Hmm, it matches symbols too. 06:06:22 Yes. string= and string-equal take string designators. 06:08:00 Ah it works! Very interesting. 06:08:22 I never knew that the test function could be changed. Ok thanks. 06:08:45 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:10:39 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:54 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:59 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.180.136] has joined #lisp 06:28:23 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.180.136] has left #lisp 06:30:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:30:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:52 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.164] has joined #lisp 06:38:29 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38:32 Joreji [~thomas@75-186.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:39:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA39E04.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:41:25 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:31 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 06:43:37 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:29 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.205] has joined #lisp 06:46:27 caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:46:28 -!- caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:34 incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:12 zobbo [~ian@84.93.146.255] has joined #lisp 07:06:36 pyr0vic3 [~pyr0vic3@dyn-24-49-36-5.myactv.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:58 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:41 -!- pyr0vic3 [~pyr0vic3@dyn-24-49-36-5.myactv.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:15:52 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:34 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:16:34 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:34 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:17:42 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:24:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:52 -!- incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:25:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:47 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:13 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:43:34 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:43:49 pocket_ [~pocket_@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:44:04 Hello 07:44:32 How can I turn off end-of-file error of #'read? 07:44:36 What's the best way to turn a string like this: "a b &c !d @e f .g ~h" into a list of those items? Read from string complains about 'read ends within a token after multiple escape characters' ? 07:44:56 I already tryed :eof-error-p nil option. 07:45:28 But I got same error. 07:46:00 <_3b> pocket_: that arg won't help with incomplete forms, if that is the problem, maybe you want something other than READ? 07:46:37 pocket_: what are you trying to do? 07:46:39 <_3b> sea4ever: what do you mean by "those items", strings like "a" "&c" "!d"? or characters #\a #\space #\b #\space #\& ... ? 07:47:14 Strings like "a" "&c" "!d", except they're all on one line together separated by spaces. 07:47:23 drdo: I make application which save-data list as lisp style list when it quit. 07:47:27 That string up there is an example of input. 07:47:31 <_3b> sea4ever: try the split-sequence library 07:47:37 Split sequence? Ok 07:48:00 And reload saved file when re-executed by read. 07:49:00 pocket_: read doesn't eval code 07:49:09 It reads 07:49:13 <_3b> pocket_: ah, in that case, READ sounds right, maybe you wrote something that couldn't be READ? look for #< in the saved file 07:49:18 drdo: I know. 07:49:28 pocket_: so what is the problem? 07:50:03 I test my application in case of first execute. 07:50:37 what? 07:50:38 <_3b> pocket_: also, with-standard-io-syntax might be useful 07:50:54 Then I got eof error. May be It caused from data file is vacent. 07:51:18 I'm puzzled 07:51:47 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 (sorry for bad english I'm not english native, So I hard to tell you what on my mind in english) 07:52:20 <_3b> pocket_: using lisppaste to paste examples of what you did, and what error it gave can help with that problem :) 07:52:33 Ok. 07:55:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:41 spiaggia [~user@ssh1.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:55:58 Good afternoon everyone! 07:56:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118169 07:56:36 Ops. I forgot " 07:57:02 <_3b> pocket_: if the file might be empty, you need the eof-error-p argument 07:57:17 _3d: I know 07:57:28 cmbntr [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:57:37 So I already tried :eof-error-p nil. 07:57:49 <_3b> pocket_: and it works better if you paste the actual error message 07:57:57 Ok.. 07:58:27 <_3b> it is too easy to assume it was the same error you got last time and not read it, we can only catch that if you paste the actual message instead of what you thought it was :) 07:59:53 pocket_: If the input is malformed, you will still get an end-of-file 08:00:11 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:05 I'm not working on this machine. So I try to reconnect this IRC. Please waiting... 08:01:43 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:47 Pocket [~masato@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:02:04 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:12 http://paste.lisp.org/+2J6I 08:02:37 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 08:02:38 Pocket: What are the contents of the file? 08:02:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:03:00 File file is empty. 08:03:08 <_3b> Pocket: that is with eof-error-p nil? 08:03:09 Same as touched from shell. 08:03:23 That doesn't happen here 08:03:36 I only get end-of-file if the input is malformed 08:04:40 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 08:05:22 with eof-error-p as nil, READ returns nil on an empty file 08:05:49 You don't have that in the code you linked 08:06:34 Ok.. Please waiting.. 08:07:05 <_3b> Pocket: you have (read fp nil) right? 08:07:51 OMG.... :-( 08:07:55 <_3b> ah, i suspect not, since it was described as :eof-error-p earlier 08:08:13 Oh... &optional ... not &key.. 08:08:29 Maybe my eyes had creazy... 08:08:43 Ok I'll try it with &optional.. 08:10:11 *_3b* goes back to trying to figure out wide quadratic splines 08:11:20 Ok now my application works fine... :-( 08:14:12 And you are sad because it works fine? :P 08:16:16 I'm embarrased.:-) 08:18:35 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:36 But happy now. 08:23:26 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:23:48 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:52 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:24:06 -!- Pocket 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10:40:42 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:44:53 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 10:48:03 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:54:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:55:58 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:01 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #lisp 11:01:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 11:01:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:04:04 hahaha 11:04:10 this part from land of lisp is cracking me up 11:04:11 How It Kills Bugs 11:04:11 Example 11:04:11 (define continuation null)  (define (foo n) 11:04:12 There are many situations where having time travel in your code can make the code easier to understand. 11:04:27 hm...pasting from pdfs...just look at the last sentence ;) 11:14:47 Continuations do not give time travel, except in the absence of time. 11:17:01 rudi_ [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:21:56 I don't think he meant it literally. 11:22:20 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:29:29 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-38-201.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:23 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-38-201.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 11:32:33 -!- xscroll [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:37:47 Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-138.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:39:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-246.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:46:03 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:48:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.1] 11:49:10 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:28 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.164] has joined #lisp 11:56:10 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-45.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:13 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-45.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:56:54 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-45.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:59:10 pmurias [~pawel@static-78-8-208-43.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 if i want to run a file using sbcl what should i do? 12:01:05 pmurias: what does "run a file" mean to you? 12:01:40 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-45.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:02:54 Xach: execute all the statements in the file and exit 12:03:30 Xach: instead of a REPL appearing 12:03:48 pmurias: sbcl --load file --eval '(sb-ext:quit)' is one way. i think i got that right; i don't ever do it, so i don't remember. 12:04:09 pmurias: that's kind of an odd way to work with SBCL, though. 12:04:11 how do you run your programs? 12:04:28 most of the time I start Lisp and slime, load my programs, and call functions from the repl. 12:04:38 sometimes i build executables with buildapp. 12:05:27 Xach: why is that odd? 12:05:39 i do not wish to type anything in a REPL of any kind 12:05:43 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05:57 not counting by bash shell 12:06:18 pmurias: It's odd because it's not streamlined for that kind of use, and is not use much that way. I'm not sure where the cause and effect are. 12:06:33 --script 12:06:45 --script doesn't work very well if you want to load anything useful. 12:08:19 -!- kanru1 [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:08:22 Xach: what should i use instead of sbcl then? 12:08:42 Perl, hehe 12:09:21 Bad humour day... 12:09:43 pmurias: I don't know. I don't use CL for programs written that way. 12:10:49 i should just use 'sbcl < commands' 12:12:43 Xach: what are the advantages of using the REPL 12:13:04 ? 12:13:34 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.90.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:15:21 pmurias: Interactive development. A debugger, recent results easily available, being able to pipeline and stash values, being able to define new functions and classes and objects and whatnot. 12:15:53 pmurias: with the command-line it's mostly shuffling octets from one program to another or to the filesystem. i like working with more structured data most of the time. 12:18:02 pmurias: When I want a program to run from e.g. cron or something, I use http://xach.com/lisp/buildapp/ to load everything I need and then dump the application to an executable. 12:19:05 so use can save function you define in the REPL 12:19:08 ? 12:19:53 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3F2D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:20:21 Xach: and then i can put the source code into version control? 12:21:03 pmurias: I don't write functions in the repl, I write them in a file and send them to the repl with C-c C-c 12:21:49 cmbntr [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:23:09 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:26 what the common lisp file extension? 12:25:06 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:25:12 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 12:25:37 .lisp 12:27:24 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 12:27:47 hi rudi 12:27:56 ohai Xach 12:28:38 I'm not doing so much lisp hacking these days, but quicklisp is impressive! 12:29:11 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:30:22 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:07 *Xach* climbs Mt. Hackmore 12:32:32 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.186.78] has joined #lisp 12:32:36 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:32:53 hmm...foreign code that tweaks the fpu control bits *is* going to get me into trouble with SBCL 12:33:42 oh, yes, and applause for quicklisp again. :-) 12:35:01 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.146.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:36:08 hello everyone 12:36:26 Xach: clisp does what i expect :) 12:39:07 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.250.175] has joined #lisp 12:40:27 hi 12:41:07 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-138.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 12:45:57 vokoda_ [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 12:46:52 madsj [~mads@188.183.99.10] has joined #lisp 12:47:49 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:24 pistolpete [~user@p4FE8F3C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:22 Bronsa [~bronsa@host164-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:49:25 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:50:04 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 12:50:05 Hello, just starting to learn lisp is this the correct place to ask questions reference lisp in emacs? 12:50:22 SeySayux [~SeySayux@unaffiliated/seysayux] has joined #lisp 12:50:27 <_3b> if you mean elisp, #emacs is better 12:50:42 jeti [~user@p54B47E4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:43 <_3b> if you mean using emacs to program common lisp, this channel is OK 12:50:56 Hi, can (Common) Lisp be used as an embedded programming language inside a C/C++ application? 12:51:12 SeySayux: Yes. 12:51:14 SeySayux: ecl is a candidte for this 12:51:15 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:28 _3b: Thanks, just trying to get to the correct place before I make a bigger fool of myself! 12:52:20 -!- pistolpete [~user@p4FE8F3C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:52:49 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:18 vokoda [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 12:54:31 what's a good common lisp reference manual? 12:55:03 <_3b> pmurias: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm 12:55:15 <_3b> usually referred to as CLHS 12:55:20 http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 12:58:30 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 12:59:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.21.90] has joined #lisp 13:01:02 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:03:39 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:34 -!- SeySayux [~SeySayux@unaffiliated/seysayux] has quit [Quit: SeySayux] 13:06:18 is there an option to make quicklisp run quietly 13:06:33 to avoid the loading messages 13:06:40 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:00 pmurias: Not yet. 13:11:06 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:12:05 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:14:07 -!- madsj [~mads@188.183.99.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:23 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:46 what is the difference between the symbol and the macro lambda? 13:16:06 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:48 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.242.79.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:17:30 madsj [~mads@188.183.99.10] has joined #lisp 13:18:39 churib_: What do you mean? 13:20:14 drdo: according to clhs there are both, the symbol and the macro: http://l1sp.org/clhs/lambda 13:20:59 ups: http://l1sp.org/cl/lambda 13:24:22 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@76.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:29 something like : ((lambda (x y) (* x y)) 2 3) and (funcall #'(lambda (x y) (* x y)) 2 3) 13:24:35 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:25:17 you have the answer in the docs you pointed to 13:25:46 i am new to lisp, i dont see the difference 13:26:28 churib_: it doesn't matter to you, then. 13:26:53 okay :) 13:27:29 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host111-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:27:33 *francogrex* notices a lot of newbie to lisp and in cll (which is good). Wonders if they came through the "land of lisp" book! 13:27:53 bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.125.141] has joined #lisp 13:27:59 *churib_* is coming from clojure 13:28:11 amb007 [~a_bakic@76.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:25 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:28:34 -!- Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host111-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:36 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:29:02 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host111-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:29:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host164-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:31:51 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:32:29 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023337.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 13:32:46 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:33:36 brodo [~brodo@p5B023337.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:43 car and cdr have sensible synonims - nice :) 13:37:08 pmurias: can you tell me? I'm using them for about a week now but still don't know.. 13:40:37 bsod1: first, rest 13:40:50 bsod1: that makes sense if you're using conses as lists, which is not always the case. 13:40:57 I prefer car and cdr 13:41:17 Xach: conses and lists are different? 13:41:29 bsod1: lists are made of conses, but not all conses are part of lists. 13:42:00 they are a generic two-element object that can be used for other things. 13:42:16 Use first and rest for lists. Use car and cdr for trees. 13:42:37 bsod1: (cons 1 2) --> dotted-pair, (cons 1 (cons 2 nil)) --> list (correct me if i am wrong) 13:43:37 churib_: (listp (cons 1 2)) 13:43:52 hm ,okay 13:44:17 churib_: It's not a "proper" list though. (: 13:45:36 ah, okay. i thought proper- and p-lists are same - thanks for clarification! 13:46:54 It's because CL lists are like C string. 13:47:18 Patterns of data rather than objects. 13:52:04 churib_: plist == property list. proper list == list with the last tail being nil. 13:52:50 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B75A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.21.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:31 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:06:41 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@78.173.125.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06:48 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:07:17 bsod1 [~osa1@88.241.168.137] has joined #lisp 14:09:15 phao [~phao@189.107.146.89] has joined #lisp 14:09:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:34 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:14:59 lemon22 [6de08ee4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.224.142.228] has joined #lisp 14:15:02 fare-match should work with clisp? 14:17:08 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:17:10 Any ideas how to debug shaders with cl-opengl? gDEBugger, GlslDevil & gldb-gui all give errors when using an SBCL image. I'm using Debian. 14:17:58 pmurias: I haven't tried that. But I think it should. 14:18:21 *_3b* usually just tries to make it easy to reload the shader and edits it until stuff looks right :/ 14:18:25 lemon22: Sounds like you should talk to |3b| or someone. He's the opengl expert. 14:20:10 schmrkc: have you used fare-matcher? 14:20:44 pmurias: loads for me. i haven't ever used it, though. 14:21:11 i get a *** - SYSTEM::%EXPAND-FORM: invalid form (1) error 14:21:21 pmurias: when doing what? 14:21:49 i used (1) as an expression 14:21:53 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:22:07 pmurias: What did you expect to happen? 14:22:49 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:23:58 Xach: "1 is not a defined function" error message? 14:24:06 it was a mistake 14:24:18 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:43 pmurias: That is not an expectation supported by the language. 14:25:55 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011092.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:29:17 Xach: got the matching to work 14:34:25 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:36:35 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.10.45.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:05 -!- rudi [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has quit [Quit: rudi] 14:43:05 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:43:11 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 14:45:24 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:49:05 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:53:55 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:00 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-118-188-21.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:56:11 paul0 [~paulogeye@189.114.207.225.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:57:19 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-158-24.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:02 does anyone know where clisp looks for .lisp-files per default? 14:58:27 brodo: you mean, when you write (load "foo")? 14:58:35 normally in the local directory 14:58:48 prxq: i mean in (require 'foo) 14:58:57 but in load too, i guess 14:59:07 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:20 is there no system-wide library-dir? 14:59:39 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:59:41 brodo: i don't know. REQUIRE works differently between implementations 14:59:42 ramus [~ramus@99.23.135.12] has joined #lisp 15:00:30 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-118-188-21.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:37 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:02:10 Bronsa [~bronsa@host243-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host243-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:31 Bronsa [~bronsa@host243-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:04:03 -!- Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host111-10-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:05:25 brodo: http://clisp.sourceforge.net/impnotes.html#require has some info for clisp 15:08:27 Xach: yes, i says that there is a system wide and a user-specific external modules directory. but it doesen't say where.... 15:08:40 brodo: ext:*load-paths* 15:08:46 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:59 brodo: and of course, *default-pathname-defaults* 15:09:44 brodo: there's CUSTOM:*USER-LIB-DIRECTORY* (and CUSTOM:*LIB-DIRECTORY*) but that's for REQUIRE. 15:10:02 nmg [~nickga@host81-131-156-38.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:35 pjb: thx, that was what i'm looking for 15:16:43 cua-mode is a complete bag of spanners 15:19:53 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:19:55 Is gentoo still the best distro for doing lisp hacking on? 15:20:16 uh? 15:20:32 ZabaQ: there has never been a best distro for lisp hacking. They're all equally good. 15:21:27 schmrkc: "linux on a floppy" would be a bit worse then others ;) 15:22:15 pmurias: not necessarily 15:22:15 Right. 15:22:37 Is this going to end up in "how come my lisp doesn't generate 2MB binaries" again ?! 15:22:38 Let's have a lengthy discussion about the viability of linux on a floppy 15:22:43 Even Tiny Core Linux wouldn't fit on a floppy 15:23:01 I don't even have a floppy drive in any of my computers. 15:23:17 I do, in a lot of them 15:23:29 I don't use them, but they're still over there 15:23:38 *p_l|backup* used some weird distro that shipped on few floppies (including booting from them) and included enough that with some extra storage you could use it for lisp developement 15:23:40 gnah, I missed the lisp meeting in berlin, that's stupid 15:23:49 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:23:52 I with schmrkc, I have had a floppy drive this century, AFAIK 15:23:57 haven't* 15:24:14 kanru1 [~kanru@61-228-157-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 p_l|backup: That's how slackware shipped when I installed it (: 15:24:45 I still remember installing fbsd from a floppy when i was 11 and i didn't have a cd writer :( 15:25:10 *schmrkc* remembers loading code from ZX microdrives when he was 11 ;) 15:25:20 schmrkc: was it *running* from those floppies, or just installing? :) 15:25:27 p_l|backup: oh running. nah just installing. 15:25:41 crazy running from floopies 15:26:29 using floppies for ephemeral storage would be crazy 15:26:35 *schmrkc* is reading about "traits" in Scala. Seems to be exactly like normal mixin classes. 15:26:46 schmrkc: the one I got would boot from two~three floppies (first one 1.44, all the rest was I think 1.76MB or more), and had extra modules (like GCC, Emacs, X11 etc) on other floppies you could use to load those into ramdisk 15:26:47 drdo: ya casette tapes are better. 15:26:54 schmrkc: no, ram is 15:27:22 drdo: I dunno. I don't have so much ram in all machines maybe ;) 15:27:28 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:27:31 well food time! 15:30:17 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:30:28 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:06 cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:33:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:32 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:42 -!- cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@80-218-229-102.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 15:33:47 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:34:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 our first harddisk had 30 megs. It was, like, hugely enormous. The rather hostile Lisp I tried to use back then came on a 180k floppy. 15:38:53 i can't remember the name right now. 15:39:26 my first was a 5mg corvus, c. '82 15:39:49 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has joined #lisp 15:41:22 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:56 *5MB 15:42:14 I guess I'm not the oldest guy in the room. :) 15:42:24 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:27 unlikely here 15:42:42 though somebody is 15:43:11 and it's prolly not meh 15:44:23 *p_l|backup* can't claim to be the oldest, but his interests caused him to work on 36bit machines running maclisp ^_- 15:45:00 google image search "corvus hard drive" shows the thing 15:47:17 http://www.timeoff.org/wp-rp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Corvus.jpg 15:47:26 USD 3750 ?? wow 15:47:56 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:48:27 these things made nice turbine-like sounds when spinning up :-) 15:49:06 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:49:18 is the price right, though? that was a lot more money back then 15:49:22 yeah it was pretty expensive. But it was in whole different league than the disk common on PCs of the era. 15:49:32 oh ok 15:49:36 which didn't yet have hard drives 15:50:11 you could type "dir", hit enter, and had time to read along :-) 15:51:11 lines appeared rather slowly 15:53:01 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-193-106.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:53:40 urandom__ [~user@p548A5FB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:51 ziga` [~user@cpe-77.38.2.117.cable.t-1.si] has joined #lisp 15:54:59 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:14 pl_backup: were they CDC machines (the 36 bit)? 16:00:57 (only 36 bit arch that comes to mind is CDC 3000 series, but I know there were others, maybe lisp machines were) 16:01:20 does common lisp support coroutines? 16:01:57 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:02:32 pmurias: not natively. 16:02:44 that's a tasking construct somewhat outside the scope of the specs I believe 16:03:13 do current specs address threading and the like? 16:03:17 pmurias: many implementations have threads, though. 16:03:32 pkhuong: is there a library that adds them? 16:03:34 JuanDaugherty: as opposed to the only CL spec? 16:03:53 -!- lemon22 [6de08ee4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.224.142.228] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:03:56 as opposed to older ones which I know don't 16:05:10 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:05:11 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:05:13 pmurias: some libraries use some source to source compiler to get delimited continuations; that can be used for coroutines. But, really, I'd go with threads. 16:05:17 symbolics 3600 apparently was 36 bit 16:06:11 -!- Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:39 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:07:09 The 7090 was 36-bit too. 3 bits of opcodes, 15 bits of decrement, 3 bits of flags, 15 bits of address. How nice this is exactly what we need: 3 bits of tags for the cdr, the cdr value, 3 bits of tags for the car, the car value! 16:07:12 pmurias: or you can go deep in implementation-specific land and try to copy stack frames; that's hard to do robustly. 16:08:04 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host243-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:48 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:11:49 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:12:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:13:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:18:26 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.250.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:18:59 -!- Guthur [c0c1f50e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.14] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:21:11 jjjjj [~Gordon@178.98.31.194] has joined #lisp 16:22:10 -!- Bronsa_ is now known as Bronsa 16:22:59 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:04 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:29:15 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:29:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-94.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:44 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:29:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:14 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-141.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:31:35 rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:34:40 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:21 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:41:39 espadrine_ [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:41:40 n2linux [~n2linux@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:24 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023337.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 16:44:10 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:31 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:14 -!- espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:45:14 -!- espadrine_ is now known as espadrine 16:47:48 -!- jjjjj [~Gordon@178.98.31.194] has left #lisp 16:47:57 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@212.20.125.91.gr6.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:20 vokoda_ [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 16:48:32 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@212.20.125.91.gr6.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:47 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@212.20.125.91.gr6.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:53 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@212.20.125.91.gr6.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:25 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@212.20.125.91.gr6.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:46 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:50:05 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 16:50:06 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-38-201.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:48 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 16:50:52 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.186.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:52:54 -!- ziga` [~user@cpe-77.38.2.117.cable.t-1.si] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:18 pnq [~nick@ACA44B6E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:13 -!- rfg [~rfg@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 16:57:32 escapist1984 [57f63ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.231] has joined #lisp 16:58:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:01 valium97582 [~daniel@187.10.45.61] has joined #lisp 17:00:10 -!- escapist1984 [57f63ae7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.231] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:20 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:23 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.146.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:28 testtesttest [~testtestt@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:37 -!- testtesttest [~testtestt@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:51 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-238-209.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:08:42 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08:46 brodo [~brodo@p5B023337.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:59 in slime does C-u C-c C-k compile the entire buffer with maximal debug? 17:09:49 Fade: thats my impression, but im not positive 17:10:34 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:36 mostly not sure about "maximal" it definitely turns up debugging most of / all the way 17:10:50 *nod* 17:11:23 hi all. I've been trying to document a curry function and written nothing yet. I can explain it but 17:11:24 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:40 I have no idea how can I describe a curry function in just one or two sentences 17:11:46 any ideas? 17:12:03 find out what the haskell folks have to say about it. 17:12:33 <[df]> sid3k: as in, a function that curries a function? 17:12:40 <[df]> or a curried function? 17:12:51 they probably explain it but I already know it. I need to write a description for an api doc 17:13:09 [df]: it's a function that makes curried passed function 17:13:37 sid3k: that's strange; partial application is usually more useful, if it's not transparent. 17:13:38 <[df]> can't you just assume knowledge of the term 'curry' and/or link to a definition? 17:13:55 my impression is that a curried function is a higher order function that composes subfunctions into an aggregate. 17:14:21 although I have no direct experience with formal currying techniques. 17:14:26 [df]: guess I can. but I want to do my best 17:14:57 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:15:21 pkhuong: curried functions consist of chains.. 17:16:19 <[df]> something like 'converts a multiple-argument function into a chain of single argument functions that return each other until all arguments are gathered and then returns the final result' - meh, this is not easy 17:16:37 <[df]> my original suggestion still stands :D 17:17:04 -!- heloehlo [~bfouts@24.30.125.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:51 my current explonation is: Transform 'fn' into a chain of functions each with a part of the arguments of 'fn' 17:18:02 -!- brodo [~brodo@p5B023337.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: brodo] 17:18:10 [df]: haha, thanks :) 17:18:22 <[df]> it's not exactly a 'chain' of functions though - what it returns is just a single function 17:18:33 <[df]> that may or may not return another function depending on the number of parameters 17:18:39 I agree, but wikipedia says that 17:19:04 <[df]> wikipedia is rubbish for this sort of thing 17:19:16 pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-74-68-129-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:18 <[df]> pretty certain it used to say that currying and PA were the same thing 17:19:51 hmm 17:20:37 ... functions that keep the callback chain until all ... 17:20:44 how about this one [df] ? 17:21:01 are things like #p #' and #: covered in the hyperspec (couldn't find)? or are those implementation specific? 17:22:11 Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:22:36 Is there some way to ensure that (format t "~S" some-symbol) always prints the package qualifier other than binding *package* to an empty package? 17:23:46 luis: bind it to the keyword package? 17:24:10 pinkwerks: they're in the hyperspec. 17:24:13 <[df]> sid3k: sounds ok 17:24:27 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:51 espadrine_ [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:24:51 -!- espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:51 -!- espadrine_ is now known as espadrine 17:24:53 <[df]> can't help feeling that it'd be redundant for anyone who knows what currying is and not very helpful to anyone who doesn't, though 17:26:24 -!- kanru1 [~kanru@61-228-157-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:40 probably a good idea then to include a pointer to what currying is. 17:26:47 pkhuong: nice, thanks. 17:28:49 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:36 luis: I guess that might fail on some implementations where the keyword package is the "" package? 17:30:17 pkhuong: cool, can't seem to use google to search punctuation, you happen to know what section i'm looking for? 17:31:01 pkhuong: how would it fail? 17:31:34 pinkwerks: 17:31:49 luis: print only the symbol name? 17:32:16 pkhugon: sharpsign ftw! thanks again. 17:34:31 phao [~phao@189.107.146.89] has joined #lisp 17:35:09 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:12 -!- pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-74-68-129-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 17:35:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:35:38 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:36:08 -!- n2linux [~n2linux@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:41 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:40:06 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:42:16 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 17:43:06 <[df]> how would I do something like #+ but based on whether a certain package is available rather than the contents of *features* ? 17:44:37 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:44:47 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:45:06 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@189.114.207.225.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 17:46:19 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46:20 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:47:45 [df]: some systems push symbols on *features* when they're loaded. 17:49:10 <[df]> this one doesn't (at least not for this particular subsystem) 17:49:18 <[df]> would it be reasonable to do so myself at compile-time? 17:50:36 [df]: sure... Plus, you can use qualified symbols to avoid conflicts. 17:51:22 How can I check whether file empty or not? 17:51:23 <[df]> it's not conflicts that are the problem - I want to use functionality from this package if it's available, otherwise do things another way 17:51:54 [df]: right, but *features* is a global resources. 17:52:12 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:52:13 Just try to read-line and check return EOF? 17:52:35 vokoda [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 17:52:43 pocket_: file-length might be what you're looking for. 17:52:48 <[df]> oh, you mean I should push a package-qualified symbol to *features*? 17:53:00 [df]: if you're afraid of name collisions. 17:53:19 <[df]> ok, thanks 17:55:14 pkhuong: Thanks 17:55:23 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00:08 biTT [~frinnn@i59F63D42.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:24 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F63D42.versanet.de] has quit [] 18:05:01 moah [~user@78-0-159-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 biTT [~frinnn@i59F63D42.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:38 -!- espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:54 espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:12:02 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 18:12:51 pkhuong: makes sense. 18:13:46 -!- rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-67.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:34 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326445.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:04 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B008.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:32 eihrul [~eihrul@85-156-27-142.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 18:24:40 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@85-156-27-142.elisa-mobile.fi] has left #lisp 18:24:41 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:16 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA44B6E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:08 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:36:11 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:26 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 18:37:14 Is there a 'best practice' for arranging lisp files in a project? Should I separate all defstructs and so on into one file? and all macros into another? 18:38:12 sea4ever: I haven't seen a single preferred style. In general I try to group related definitions into the same file, e.g. everything to do with rectangles might be in a file called rectangles.lisp. 18:38:27 sea4ever: segregating by structs vs macros is not something I have seen or would recommend. 18:38:47 Hmm, separate them by what they do then? 18:39:14 sea4ever: roughly. 18:39:23 Alright, thanks then. 18:40:09 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-8-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:59 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-167-227.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-246.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:08 There are, however some constraints on loading that might lead you to put a bunch of macros in a separate file. 18:50:26 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:26 If you have a bunch of code in different files that use those macros, they can all depend on the macro file. 18:51:20 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51:36 Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:55:55 gigamonkey: or eval-when. 18:56:37 pkhuong: of course. But I'd try to stay away from EVAL-WHEN if there's a simple alternative. 18:57:02 gigamonkey: eval-when always seems foolproof enough to me. 18:57:41 oconnore [~eric@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:56 I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm just saying if I actually have a bunch of macros used by code in different files, I'd probably put them in a separate file and use ASDF to make the using files depend on it. 18:59:07 And if they're only used in one file, I'd put them at the top of the file. 18:59:38 EVAL-WHEN seems to me more something to be used in macro expansions. Just a matter of taste though. YMMV> 19:01:53 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B75A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:03:55 gigamonkey: ah, right, if they're used from multiple places. I wouldn't split code based on load-time issues; logically or to facilitate reading, though, that makes sense. 19:04:28 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:06:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:08:11 happy new years to every lispers :) 19:08:12 _ism [~frinnn@i59F6167D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:28 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.81.99] has left #lisp 19:11:37 -!- biTT [~frinnn@i59F63D42.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:13:02 heppy new yaer 19:13:23 we've 4 hours to it though here 19:13:31 but anyway 19:16:47 vokoda [~vokoda@unaffiliated/vokoda] has joined #lisp 19:18:34 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:29 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:32 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:28:32 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 19:30:58 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:50 _danb_ [~user@124-149-166-62.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:54:07 incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:06 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 20:00:30 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 20:01:23 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:17 -!- moah [~user@78-0-159-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?] 20:03:47 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 20:04:29 -!- incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:07:38 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:11 Soulman1 [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:34 -!- Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:16:57 redline6561 [~user@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:15 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:17:38 moah [~user@78-0-159-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:22:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:35 aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:24:51 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:25 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:25:52 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:27:22 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 20:29:00 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:18 Can I specify an implmentation specific patch for a given QuickLisp package? 20:29:42 easyE: No. 20:29:43 -!- incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:29:53 easyE: Did you have something in particular in mind? 20:30:11 We need a "quilt" of patches on top of QuickLisp. 20:30:50 After all, it's just URIs and then patch instructions piped to asdf:run-shell-command. 20:30:53 Soulman [~knute@166.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:50 easyE: or you can get the actual source fixed. That seems preferable to me than having to ask people whether they pulled the system themselves or via quicklisp. 20:31:54 easyE: Which one? 20:32:08 easyE: I mean, what stuff needs patches? 20:32:30 For me (ABCL) Bordeaux Threads as http://slack.net/~evenson/abcl/bordeaux-threads-abcl-20101204a.diff 20:32:35 easyE: do things need patches just to build, or can it be patched afterwards? 20:33:10 Well, in order to get, say an AWS instance booted to Huchentoot, a bunch of HANDLER-CASE with suitable logic works. . . 20:33:27 incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:43 In ABCL, you mean? 20:33:49 Right. 20:34:16 (it's a special case, but we need a way to unify our patches upstream wrt. a given release of ABCL. 20:34:18 ) 20:34:59 easyE: one option that will be easier with better documentation and tools is making your own set of projects that are used in preference to the quicklisp defaults 20:35:00 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:16 easyE: as it stands, though, there's no "patch" step when fetching and building something. 20:35:27 But I could add one via AROUND methods? 20:36:02 easyE: Might work. 20:36:50 Well, I have to do the same for ASDF-INSTALL. I might as well generalize it... 20:37:30 Its sweet that one can load the QuickLisp URI from ABCL to bootstrap things. Validates a lot of specificalization in ABCL's PATHNAME implementation. 20:37:53 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:08 s/specificalization/specialization/ 20:41:20 four meetings on february 7! 20:42:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.1] 20:45:31 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:44 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45:51 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 20:47:28 Xach: next meeting of Hamburg Lispers is Wed, 26. Jan 2011, 7pm 20:49:55 thanks 20:50:40 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:06 -!- incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:51:11 oops, i got the month wrong. only 1 on february 7th 20:55:39 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59:04 peth [~anon@unaffiliated/peth] has joined #lisp 21:00:08 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:48 Does anyone know about a group in Lisbon? 21:01:12 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:30 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:03:22 snearch [~snearch@f053005032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:19 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:11 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:49 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:20:56 looking at http://wiki.alu.org/Local it seems that you have to organize a group by yourself 21:21:33 colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-1-30.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:21:36 -!- nmg [~nickga@host81-131-156-38.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:02 vlion [~user@CPE-76-178-165-160.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:23 -!- colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-1-30.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-96.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:02 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:42 -!- sabalabas [~sabalaba@c-98-229-0-52.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:48 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:34 benny [~benny@i577A3D42.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:28 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:43:52 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:48 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 21:49:23 -!- oconnore [~eric@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:32 mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:19 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 21:53:33 -!- fezzle [~fezzle_@bas15-toronto63-1279271939.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:58:13 -!- vlion [~user@CPE-76-178-165-160.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:43 fezzle [~fezzle_@bas15-toronto63-1279473944.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:34 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 22:08:44 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.114.225] has joined #lisp 22:16:00 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld_] 22:18:36 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:38 hi 22:22:41 happy new year 22:23:36 (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (format t "happy new year to ~a~%" x)) *channel-nicks*) 22:24:51 pnq [~nick@ACA24EC7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:02 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:25 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:06 use alexandria ;) 22:29:02 Hmpf. Are there no cheap hostels in Zürich? 22:30:00 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053005032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:34:26 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 22:35:16 I don't think there's cheap /anything/ in Zurich 22:44:55 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@212.20.125.91.gr6.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:47:49 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:49:29 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:19 -!- madsj [~mads@188.183.99.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:11 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-193-106.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:26 Apparently not. 22:53:40 Krystof: you going to the ZSLUG meeting? 22:56:28 is there a way to initialize the (random) state from the system clock? 22:56:38 everytime i run my program i get the same sequence out of (random) 22:56:52 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@187.10.45.61] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:58 necroforest: there's no way to do that. 22:57:14 ...really? 22:57:16 necroforest: on the other hand, you can reset the random state to a random state. 22:57:40 necroforest: see make-random-state 22:58:21 yeah... you have to pass that around then, right? 22:58:48 necroforest: notice that it would be a bug in the implementation if it used the system clock to initialize a random random state, since (loop repeat 10 collect (make-random-state t)) would probably return ten equivalent random states contrarily to what is specified. 22:58:57 necroforest: see *random-state* 22:59:41 (the system clock changes only once a second, or once a microsecond, while you can easily generate more than one random states per system clock period). 22:59:47 right 22:59:47 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-237.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:58 well, i'm thinking about languages like C where there's one global random state 23:00:09 necroforest: you need to debug your brains. 23:00:14 so you would (usually) only reseed it once in your program 23:00:43 In CL you can instanciate several different random states at once. 23:01:51 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:10 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:02:14 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:49 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:00 so, i could get the desired behavior by (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)) 23:03:01 right? 23:03:24 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:04:12 Happy New Year from Vienna! 23:04:35 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host79-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:04:43 slowpokes :P 23:05:01 sorry, couldn't resist :D 23:05:07 *easyE* was waltzin'. Verzeihen... 23:11:30 espadrine_ [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:11:30 -!- espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:30 -!- espadrine_ is now known as espadrine 23:16:28 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-201.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:26 happy new year, lithpers! 23:24:04 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:59 yep, happy new year cons people. 23:26:17 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 23:27:24 valium97582 [~daniel@187.10.45.61] has joined #lisp 23:27:31 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:43 afilatun [~user@modemcable186.37-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:27:52 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:2] has joined #lisp 23:30:25 -!- moah [~user@78-0-159-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?] 23:33:23 oconnore [~eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:41:35 espadrine_ [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-72-3.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:44:19 -!- espadrine [~anonymous@AMontsouris-157-1-79-208.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:19 -!- espadrine_ is now known as espadrine