00:01:01 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-39-145.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:15 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:22 paul0 [~paulogeye@189.26.136.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:02:29 aww too bad I missed the haskell convo, I'm here precisely because I'm slowly giving up on haskell :P 00:02:42 btw what do you guys mean by "returning from a function" not beingcommon in CL? 00:03:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-103.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:04:00 normally, the last expr in the body of fn is returned and the fn is over 00:04:13 i mean, the value of that expr 00:04:44 okay, and how is that frowned upon by FP people? 00:05:13 unkanon: that isn't 00:05:18 It's frowned up by everyone in the sense that too much of it will make your program hard to read 00:05:44 Well, FP people would already frown upon a Lisp style series of expressions in functions, right? 00:05:50 unkanon: it's the return-from construct that might be (: 00:05:54 Since that implies state/sequential execution? 00:05:54 And just a little of it in the right place makes it easier to read 00:06:18 I'm not familiar with the return-from construct. 00:06:25 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@189.26.136.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 00:06:38 it returns from a block 00:06:39 unkanon: lets you unwind from the function early 00:06:41 progn is un-FP, isn't it? 00:06:44 or a block, yeah 00:06:52 oh then that's bad 00:07:01 nah, it aids readability sometimes 00:07:01 qfr: kinda 00:07:03 so that's good (: 00:07:09 It's not bad, it makes programs clearer sometimes 00:07:13 agreed there 00:07:22 It's just not something you use all over your program 00:07:25 that's why I can't stand haskell anymore 00:07:35 my hands are tied too tight when writing haskell 00:07:57 I really gave it my best shot but I can't justify learning Iteratees to write simple programs 00:08:16 haskell is too much theory. and this is an understatement. 00:08:32 not ragging on it, I swear. 00:08:46 Do rag on 00:08:47 I love the language but it's a platonic love :P 00:08:50 We're on the rag! 00:09:34 no I really like it, I just wish fewer features of the language were worthy of tons of papers being written about them 00:10:01 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:32 Haha 00:14:48 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:01 also I like how types play an important part in the language 00:15:07 I'll really miss that 00:15:08 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.151.203] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:15:23 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-24-91-23-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 00:16:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-132.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:18:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19:51 I think there is a lot of interesting type-theoretic research going on these days. 00:19:55 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:44 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:21:09 Haskell's H-M type theory is old stuff, by now. 00:21:38 What I'd like to see, is a statically-typable subset of Common Lisp. 00:21:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:21:50 that would probably be very cool 00:21:57 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:02 With union/intersection types. 00:22:10 now you've lost me 00:22:11 :P 00:22:38 It's more or less bleeding-edge research by now, esp. the composition of the two. 00:24:03 What would be the most sweet, is to be able to choose, when to cross the static-typability boundary, on to typelessness. 00:24:34 indeed 00:24:43 you can get diabetes 00:24:54 Or, the other way around -- develop freely, and then iteratively harden semantics. 00:24:55 it'd be worth it 00:25:51 I realise it would be conceptually complicated, as Lisp is inherently dynamic. 00:26:36 is it easy to write parsers in Lisp like it is in haskell? 00:26:40 But, the desire is apparently, there -- witness Lisk/Liskell. 00:26:43 (sorry to change the subject) 00:26:51 unkanon, there is ometa2 00:27:11 Which I plan to strip off its stupid syntax, whenever I get time for this.. 00:27:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has joined #lisp 00:28:01 I don't like it too much, because it is not compositional. 00:28:26 paul0 [~paulogeye@189.26.136.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:28:38 deepfire: what I mean is, in Haskell it's so easy I can do it from scratch without using parsec (a library for parsing) 00:28:42 For compositionality, you might want to see a short translation of that classic monadic parser paper into CL, by Drew Crampsie 00:28:42 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:37 Monadic parsers are not rocket science. 00:29:46 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-54-252.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:51 I guess it should be just as easy as long as we stay in FP land 00:29:59 Yeah, really. 00:30:01 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:34 http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html 00:31:09 leifw` [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:24 now the thing is that haskell's type system makes a lot of stuff easier, like parsin too 00:31:27 parsing* 00:31:38 -!- freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-133-174.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:59 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:11 unkanon: What do you mean? 00:32:30 (I hesiatte before I post this lest people think I'm a lunatic); this is becming more and more weird. there is something haphazard about sbcl installation on my system. depending on the days, the function read-line behaves differently: one time it crlf and on windows files it ok and one pother time on the same file it isn't. there is somethin I do not control/understand 00:32:44 deepfire: that's one cool link, thanks! 00:33:09 drdo: I mean that the type system kinda parses things for you with its pattern-matching capabilities 00:33:15 drdo: it really helps 00:33:22 francogrex: It's a heinsenbug 00:33:22 qfr` [void@cpc1-stap2-0-0-cust293.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com.siyobik.info] has joined #lisp 00:33:38 unkanon: Do you mean destructuring? 00:33:49 jesusabd1llah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:49 Borbus_ [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:50 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 00:33:50 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:51 strlen_ [~alex@behemoth.strlen.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:52 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-40-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:33:53 karbak_ [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:53 drdo: destructing, I think, but yeah 00:33:53 guaqua_ [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 kloeri_ [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 boyscare1 [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:56 ozzloy_ [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 00:33:58 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:33:58 rvncerr_ [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 00:34:00 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@83.101.80.204] has joined #lisp 00:34:02 fds_ [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:03 p_l|back1p [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:34:05 unkanon: CL has destructuring 00:34:07 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:08 sepi_ [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 00:34:08 arbscht_ [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:34:11 ineiros_ [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 00:34:12 chitech_ [~khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has joined #lisp 00:34:14 drdo, no, it's not the same 00:34:15 nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:30 drdo, haskell does pattern matching on types 00:34:32 it's called destruction, it's the opposite of constructing a value of a certain type 00:35:00 Well, not pattern matching in the /general/ sense, a subset of it. 00:35:15 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:23 deepfire: I sort of know haskell, and i don't know what you're talking about, can you give me an example? 00:35:58 heisenbug? 00:36:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 00:36:32 destructuring 00:36:34 drdo, you seem to be confused, if you think that Haskell's pattern matching on types is covered with Lisp's destructuring. 00:37:03 drdo, I suspect therefore, that I'm not in the best position to clarify this. 00:37:05 i believe it might be seriously 00:37:06 deepfire: Give me an example of what you can do that is useful 00:37:26 fmu` [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:35 drdo: you can do \(x:xs) -> x 00:37:45 which is a lambda that takes a list and returns the first element of it 00:37:58 that's destructuring 00:38:39 it might be, I've no idea what destructuring is, I just know in Haskell it's called destruction or pattern-matching 00:38:49 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:38:54 destructuring-bind does that 00:39:01 marioxcc [~user@200.56.150.72] has joined #lisp 00:39:10 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-40-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- leifw [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- chitech [~khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.204] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fhvarfyipcrqlewj] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- Kaek [~b@c-7ecbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- sepi [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- strlen [~alex@behemoth.strlen.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:10 -!- mgr_ [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- fmu [~fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:39:11 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 00:39:11 -!- qfr` is now known as qfr 00:39:11 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 00:39:21 (destructuring-bind (first . rest) '(1 2 3 4 5) first) 00:39:22 drdo, you are confused, and this is not the best place to talk about it. 00:39:27 in 'on lisp', you have it gradual: assignment, destructuring, pattern-matching, unification 00:39:41 Kaek [~b@c-7ecbe253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:39:42 deepfire: I think you are confused actually 00:40:07 SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:13 -!- kloeri_ is now known as kloeri 00:40:28 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-joqxkqqtwnakjxcb] has joined #lisp 00:40:44 -!- fds_ is now known as fds 00:40:57 what's your bot called here? can we execute that code, drdo? 00:41:05 -!- fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:41:05 fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has joined #lisp 00:41:11 that code will evaluate to 1 00:41:26 I know... 00:41:39 but is there a bot here? 00:41:52 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host244-176-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:42:00 minion is on vacation apparently 00:42:28 :( 00:42:37 drdo, CL's destructuring is merely syntactic sugar for taking lists apart; Haskell has the added benefit of matching arbitrary type expressions -- it would translate into a set of nested IF expressions in CL. 00:42:51 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:14 deepfire: Can you provide an example? 00:43:31 oh destructuring-bind only works on lists? 00:45:00 you have WITH-SLOTS, WITH-ACCESSORS for classes 00:45:59 http://www.haskell.org/tutorial/classes.html, the part where they use it to match trees 00:46:34 The paragraph starting with the words "Recursive types such as Tree defined earlier can also be handled". 00:46:55 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:47:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-245.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:48:31 Of course, you can use typecase here, but now you see that you have to use /two/ CL constructs, to cover this use and list comprehension. 00:51:07 Take the complexity a notch up, and the added benefit of matching, in contrast with explicit interpretation, starts being visible. 00:51:15 urandom__ [~user@p548A5A64.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:34 deepfire: I honestly don't see what you mean 00:54:10 Do you see how you would need to use typecase, in that example, in CL? 00:54:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:54:46 You could implement that with a generic function 00:54:58 Omg. 00:55:04 This conversation is over. 00:55:12 And i don't see how that is any more clear 00:55:32 Whatever floats your boat 00:56:24 Not to mention you could implement a macro and have exactly that 00:56:52 Of course you could! 00:57:37 There is a paper, by Slava Akhmechet, which does exactly this. 00:58:23 The amount of work he does there, to reach Haskell's level of abstraction, is educational. 00:58:56 lol what can't lisp do with macros? 00:58:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:39 unkanon: Inline assembly? :o 01:00:05 Enabling the A20 line? 01:00:29 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:00:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:40 http://www.defmacro.org/papers/cl-monad.pdf 01:00:43 unkanon: That's the best feature of lisp, if it doesn't exist, you can make it 01:01:01 drdo, sorry, you were terribly misinformed. 01:01:09 yeah I gotta learn me some macros 01:01:14 drdo, lisp cannot do a lot of sweet things. 01:01:58 And yes, most (all?) of them have to do things with types. 01:02:01 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:39 lol, citing a pastebin in a paper 01:02:58 Generic iterables? Sets? Hash-tables? 01:03:22 qfr: Effing. Awesome. 01:04:18 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:26 Somebody at VMWare cited the x86 reference on my website in an application for a patent so I guess it can get more weird 01:04:52 I'm changing the URLs soon, just to spite them. 01:05:05 wow Lisp papers are much more understandable than Haskell's 01:05:15 No surprise there :p 01:05:39 These things require implementation work to support them, witness SB-SEQUENCE, SB-EXT:DEFINE-HASH-TABLE-TEST. 01:06:14 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:06:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:07:15 qfr: was that a reply to my comment? 01:07:32 Yes 01:07:58 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 01:07:59 qfr: can you elaborate? 01:08:17 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:22 unkanon: Because Haskell is far more academic and has more theory attached to it than CL? 01:10:46 qfr: thanks. I just needed some assurance that I'm really leaving academic-land :) 01:12:33 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:35 I really would love to see Lisk/Liskell take off. 01:14:38 Even if the amount of get-togetherness this would attain would be pretty surfacial. 01:15:09 how is that "lisk" thing? 01:15:20 Wait a sec.. 01:15:44 haskell with sexps 01:16:10 ok 01:17:02 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:17:14 http://chrisdone.com/posts/2010-11-25-lisk-lisp-haskell.html, but it's a butchered version 01:17:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:17:51 http://chrisdone.com/posts/2010-11-25-lisk-lisp-haskell.html 01:17:53 The man apparently took off the most pro-Lisp content in response to pressure he've got from Haskell fanbois. 01:17:56 without the comma at the end ;) 01:18:22 I /think/ I have the full version, somewhere. 01:19:55 On a second thought, it's hardly the case. 01:20:15 It was in google cache, at some point, but now google updated it. 01:23:23 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:00 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 01:26:24 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.5.70] has joined #lisp 01:27:15 qfr, btw, I guess that inline assembly is entirely capable, with appropriate implementation support. 01:27:21 *posible 01:27:27 pff :-) 01:27:59 Wouldn't be as portable as one might like, though ;-) 01:27:59 Yeah, I'm going to write an AMD64 boot loader in CL. 01:28:15 *gulp* 01:28:23 You are one brave man, sir. 01:28:46 (or my irony detector is broken..) 01:28:57 I was just kidding 01:30:00 Well, there is sb-x86-portio, which is basically, nyef's suggestions packaged by me, to access, well, x86 IO ports on SBCL. 01:30:45 Not quite even nearly inline assembly, of course. 01:31:12 Just a proof that you can hack your way down to the turtles. 01:35:30 Turtles? Is this a Discworld or Hindu reference? 01:35:58 I think these are equivalent. 01:36:14 As in, the former being a reference to the latter. 01:36:15 The latter probably inspired the former 01:43:27 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.150.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:56 marioxcc [~user@200.56.150.72] has joined #lisp 01:47:31 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:45 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 01:55:02 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:18 how do i get postmodern to be senstive? (query (:select 'fLast :from 'tblPersons)) doesn't work because it's translating 'tblPersons to tblpersons 01:57:27 case-sensitive 02:00:11 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:29 ? 02:01:49 yates isn't postmodern that PostgreSQL library for CL? 02:03:14 qfr: yes 02:03:25 PG isn't even case sensitive, is it? 02:03:32 yes it is 02:03:38 D: 02:03:59 Then why am I using blah_blah notation instead of blahBlah? 02:04:10 it defaults to all lower-case unless you enclose things in parentheses, at least via psql 02:04:26 Ah... 02:04:48 so do you have a solution? 02:05:19 I have none, case sensitive SQL is unusual I think and was possibly not a tested case 02:06:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C7D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:06:20 that'd be like releasing a case-insensitive C compiler. 02:06:43 qfr: it's not unusual 02:07:04 guess i'll try the mailling list 02:11:33 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@189.26.136.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 02:12:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:26 Don'tNameThingsLikeThis :( 02:12:40 why not? 02:12:58 It'sNotVeryNiceToRead 02:13:02 every other library/interface i've used to-date handles it fine 02:13:15 drdo: that's irrelevent 02:13:27 it's your opinion too 02:13:39 it's the opinion of several people 02:13:42 me included 02:13:47 i don't give a rats ass 02:14:01 it is allowed 02:14:08 if any package doesn't support it, it's lame 02:14:23 I like camelCase 02:14:31 I started using it in Ruby 02:14:43 IThinkItsHorrible 02:14:51 And then started using it in C++, too, although I haven't written much C or C++ lately 02:14:53 <_3b> yates: did you try 'tbl-person? 02:15:05 <_3b> +s 02:15:18 In the past I used c_hacker_names 02:15:44 yates, if you want to alienate yourself from 100% of Lisp programmers, fine. 02:16:02 - is superior to _ and camel case 02:16:04 naming-things-like-this is a cultural issue. 02:16:26 i@quite@like@TeX@style{don\'t y@u?} 02:16:37 lol 02:16:38 drdo, not necessarily, but it's a tradition here -- and a tradition that is supported by all Lisp editors. 02:16:46 I use camelCase in my LaTeX code, too 02:16:52 but i'm talking about postgresql/SQL - NOT lisp! 02:17:25 _3b: i just did - no joy, but thanks for the suggestion 02:17:40 deepfire: I just find it easier to read 02:17:50 And space is better than - 02:18:35 tea is better than coffee 02:18:47 blonds are better than brunettes 02:18:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:18:50 yates: with ALLEGRO COMMON LISP from Franz, persistency is built in, not a database add-on! 02:19:14 yates: the first is correct, the second is not 02:19:17 :) 02:20:52 yates: also, Allegro CL is Persistent AI Built-In, All the Way Down 02:21:23 s/is/has/ 02:21:44 Quadrescence: it looks great at first glance - but what is the cost? 02:22:09 i can't be spending $4000 for a lisp package 02:22:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:25 yates: Allegro CL Development licenses are designed to reflect the differing needs of academics, companies, and individuals. 02:22:54 <_3b> yates: hmm, maybe "tblPersons"? 02:23:09 _3b: no, i tried that too 02:23:13 || 02:23:25 yates: tblpsns 02:23:27 <_3b> || doesn't seem to help either 02:23:40 Is Quadrescence currently making fun of Franz? 02:23:43 qfr: what do you mean by "||"? 02:23:47 *_3b* doesn't know what E'' means in SQL though, so can't tell what that does 02:23:50 qfr: A little :) 02:23:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:17 yates: I don't know much about Lisp, but I recall adeht showing stuff like |a b| to me, no idea if it would help in this case 02:24:18 yates, (symbol-name '|abc|) => "abc" 02:24:23 <_3b> yates: i guess you need to patch s-sql::to-sql-name and/or bug the mailing list then :/ 02:24:39 yates, (symbol-name 'abc) => "ABC" 02:25:21 deepfire: thx 02:25:30 _3b: yup, looks like it 02:25:33 thanks folks 02:26:03 Merry Christmas. 02:26:13 Of course, these good wishes are also directed at those of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Buddhists, software engineers, Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Bolsheviks, Democrats, Neo-Pagans, transsexual lesbians, U.S. Government Employees, devil worshippers, Scientologists, Control System engineers, people from the U.S. state of Ohio, Australians, and Rastafarians. 02:26:30 what the. 02:29:26 schmrkc: lighten up 02:31:14 Amazing, so I wasn't wrong 02:31:22 Although I don't have a clue about CL 02:32:39 -!- codepunk [codepunk@187.91.189.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:37:28 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:40 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:39:11 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:43:05 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:43:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:43:05 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:47:43 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.5.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:44 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 02:56:59 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055203132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:54 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:00:41 deepfire: does that '|| syntax work in a macro too? 03:02:04 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C6AF7B4D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:02:05 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:02:06 see *escape-sql-names-p* here: http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html#infix 03:02:13 but it's still not working! 03:03:24 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:57 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:45 yates, what do you mean "in a macro"? 03:08:06 yates, it works at the reader level, before any kind of semantic processing kicks in. 03:08:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:09:03 yates, also, note that :|| is not the same as |:|. 03:10:12 ,:|| 03:10:18 The former is a symbol with "" symbol-name, whose home package is called "KEYWORD", and the latter is the symbol in *PACKAGE*, whose name is ":". 03:10:31 The former is a symbol with "" symbol-name, whose home package is called "KEYWORD", and the latter is the symbol in *PACKAGE*, and whose symbol-name is ":". 03:10:49 stealthc [~stealthc@S0106001cf06931a7.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:54 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.210.236.206] has joined #lisp 03:11:03 any C programmers here? 03:11:08 stealthc: yup 03:11:25 awesome... having trouble with pointers and casting... 03:11:26 me 03:11:32 deepfire: i thought we were talking about '||, not :||? 03:11:37 seems libraries like to define pointers but make it hard going from one type to another 03:11:55 stealthc: have you tried on ##c? 03:12:08 I tried but I cannot post there 03:12:09 tried asking, i.e.? 03:12:15 the instructions suck on motd 03:12:22 yates, sure, but you pointed me to that URL for some reason, and I thought you've asked (indirectly) about that. Sorry for the confusion. 03:12:24 says I have to register but doesn't say where 03:13:57 hmmm it's a real easy question... this pointer and cast thing is gunna plague me for a while I think... 03:14:09 hmmm pastebin of my function 03:14:10 http://pastebin.com/X5jYJq2Y 03:14:35 stealthc: ok, so what is your question exactly? 03:14:37 Where is the off-topic police when we need them? 03:14:45 super simple, line 21, I'm trying to throw in a loop that looks inside the filename to see if it is .torrent or not, case insensitive 03:14:51 <_3b> yates: don't answer c questions here please 03:15:06 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 03:15:07 *sigh* ok maybe you can answer how I can get into the ##C channel then? 03:15:13 and post there :( 03:15:15 <_3b> stealthc: probably register your nick, look at the freenode site or ask #freenode for help with that 03:15:23 stealthc: What is this? #irc-help? 03:15:23 kk 03:16:07 stealthc: ok, i'm there 03:18:43 deepfire: i thought postmodern uses s-sql for its queries. thus i thought that if i set the *escape-sql-names-p* to true, i'd have my problem solved if i used (query (:select 'fLast :from '|tblPersons|)) 03:19:03 but i'm still getting the exact same error 03:19:10 "tblpersons" does not exist 03:19:23 still forcing all lowercase 03:19:33 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:38 <_3b> yates: works better if you link to the part of the page you wantpeople to look at rather than some random other part :p 03:20:10 http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html#interface 03:20:53 after (setq *escape-sql-names-p* t) it still give the same error, i.e. 03:20:56 <_3b> (i meant earlier when you linked to infix rather than escape-sql-names-p 03:21:15 *_3b* doesn't see anything that says that variable should help there 03:22:08 _3b: it's a postgresql thing - if you don't surround column names with quotes, postgresql converts them as all lower case 03:22:59 so assuming the query function gave something like 'SELECT fLast FROM tblPersons', it still wouldn't work 03:23:11 but 'SELECT fLast FROM "tblPersons"' would 03:23:52 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:24 for some reason the :"" syntax isn't working 03:24:26 (query (:select 'fLast :from :|tblPersons|)) 03:24:45 yields SELECT "flast" FROM "tblpersons" 03:24:58 <_3b> 'some reason' = 'nobody implemented it' 03:27:16 _3b: yates, it works at the reader level, before any kind of semantic processing kicks in. 03:27:41 <_3b> right, you have a symbol with upper and lower case characters, but s-sql doesn't care, and downcases it all anyway 03:27:55 yeah, that could be it 03:28:15 think i'll peer into s-sql... 03:31:19 pnq [~nick@ACA22833.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:53 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-84-85.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:37 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:41:56 ryanu [~ryan_@c-98-200-189-134.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:52 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:44:42 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:34 -!- ryanu [~ryan_@c-98-200-189-134.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:50:20 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:31 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:16 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 03:55:15 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:28 -!- euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfcaphzburflxcdn] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:57:35 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:30 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:45 euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mztvbhibhdbdbypb] has joined #lisp 03:58:56 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:01:09 csmax [~max@p5DE8E762.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:10 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 04:01:49 -!- karbak_ [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:51 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 04:01:54 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:33 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:36 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 04:04:11 -!- csmax_ [~max@p5DE8F7EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:59 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:51 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:14:46 do any of you cool cats use lisp for high performance or highly parallel computing? 04:15:39 i'm a hot dog 04:16:46 i would think high performance would use something more like C++ or C 04:16:58 or even (gasp) assembly 04:17:08 depends on how "high" high performance is 04:17:20 and using something erlang for highly parallel computing 04:17:36 What does high performance mean? 04:18:15 i wrote a decimating filter in highly optimized SSE2/x86 assembly 04:18:40 did a 2000-tap FIR filter at 448 kHz sample rate on a 1.9 GHz Intel core duo 04:19:08 in about 10 percent cpu time 04:20:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:20:54 i wrote a delta sigma modulator in highly optimized assembly for the TI TMS320C54x DSP that shipped in 17M Sony Ericsson phones. that was pretty cool. 04:22:49 my ex-boss, rtoym (who hangs around here occasionally), did write a viterbi decoder simulation in lisp, but that run on a Solaris and didn't need to be high performance 04:23:01 s/run/ran/ 04:23:23 High performance generally means "massively parallel" 04:23:49 -!- arbscht_ [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:23:49 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:23:49 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:23:49 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:23:49 -!- adeht [void@cattle-driver.no-ip.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:23:49 -!- fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:23:57 or "using computers you could never afford" 04:25:16 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 04:26:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night!] 04:27:12 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:27:25 zenlunatic [~bradley@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:00 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:25 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:30:28 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:33:17 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:18 *_3b* runs gpu/gpgpu stuff from lisp once in a while, not sure if that counts though, since usually the work is done in non-lisp shader type languages 04:35:59 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:35:59 adeht [void@cattle-driver.no-ip.info] has joined #lisp 04:35:59 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:36:46 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 04:38:09 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:38:43 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 04:40:58 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5A64.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:24 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:35 *pkhuong_* sometimes patches SBCL until it outputs the asm he's looking for. 04:53:47 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:55:11 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:58:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:58:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:58:52 -!- SYSTEM_ARMED [~null@ppp-70-128-97-168.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:58:59 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:19 pkhuong_ I am impressed 05:00:25 the question is whether that counts as coding in asm or not. 05:02:54 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 05:06:47 -!- scratch [1000@64-5-70-196.longlines.com] has left #lisp 05:10:02 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:11:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:15:41 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 05:18:28 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 05:20:11 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:25:35 DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:25:35 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 05:25:35 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 05:26:51 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:00 plage [~user@116.118.10.128] has joined #lisp 05:27:14 Good afternoon everyone! 05:28:58 good night/morning 05:31:47 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:31 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:34:23 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.188] has joined #lisp 05:43:47 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:47 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.215] has joined #lisp 05:45:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:26 -!- zenlunatic [~bradley@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:50:58 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:08 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.215] has joined #lisp 05:56:16 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:11 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59:20 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 05:59:22 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:50 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:36 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 06:03:41 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.146] has joined #lisp 06:09:29 -!- stealthc [~stealthc@S0106001cf06931a7.gv.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 06:10:18 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has joined #lisp 06:14:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:22:16 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:23:13 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.172] has joined #lisp 06:23:50 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 06:28:48 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:38:00 _xvinyl [~xvinyl@ANantes-256-1-55-57.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:34 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:40:17 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:41:07 good morning. what's cooking? 06:42:27 mitre_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 06:43:19 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:43:23 -!- mitre_ is now known as mitre 06:45:18 mbalaban [~mbalaban@c-174-62-225-143.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:26 hello 06:50:04 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.102.198] has joined #lisp 06:57:01 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:59:51 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 07:05:46 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:33 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.102.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:45 hello tic! Not much I think. What about with you? 07:07:50 hello mbalaban 07:13:02 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.5.70] has joined #lisp 07:18:59 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:22:14 -!- fmu` is now known as fmu 07:23:18 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:25:55 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22833.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:11 heya plage! I'm looking at Javascript and Norvig's 25-line Python spell checker. (noticed there is no Lisp version.) 07:31:10 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.218] has joined #lisp 07:31:36 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:44 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:32:10 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 07:33:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:07 dimas [~dimas@185-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by] has joined #lisp 07:35:22 Ahh, Les Chants Magnetiques. Honey. 07:35:53 plage, any interesting projects happening? 07:36:28 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:37:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:38:33 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:39:06 bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.151] has joined #lisp 07:42:41 tic: "Les Chants Magnetiques", the album by J-M Jarre? 07:43:29 plage, yup! listening to the Concerts in China album. 07:43:35 tic: That's a pun. The two words "Champs" (fields) et "Chants" (songs) are pronounced the same way in French. 07:44:00 plage, haha, fun. :-) 07:46:03 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:46:13 tic: In terms of projects, we had a brief discussion here the other day about "standardizing" more specific conditions than those imposed by the CLHS, so that (say) IDEs could use such conditions for better error reporting. 07:46:51 -!- prip [~foo@host107-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:47:58 plage, in the context of what Peter Seibel talked about regarding standardization in his talk? i.e. implement and make a de-facto standard people will follow? 07:50:49 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:40 de-facto standards are the best kind of standards 07:52:34 "do and people will follow" 07:55:30 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:57:08 tic: Yes, pretty much. The possibility of a CDR was talked about as well, but the de-facto standard supported by an implementation seems more attractive to people here. That, of course, does not exclude a CDR later on. 07:57:23 -!- mbalaban [~mbalaban@c-174-62-225-143.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:01 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:59:01 prip [~foo@host196-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:01:08 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:04:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:07 plage, *nod* 08:08:58 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 08:08:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 08:08:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:09:19 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:57 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:16 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:15:06 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.98] has joined #lisp 08:15:14 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:15:52 sunnyps [~sunnyps@2.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 08:26:12 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-77-114.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:41 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-40-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:29:41 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:31:55 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:23 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-142.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:58 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-169-183.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:39:30 modulus [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/modulus] has joined #lisp 08:40:44 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:19 Hi. I'd like to know what the best free lisp environment would be on windows. I've tried clisp but heard that SBCL is more performant, but not sure how good the windows support is. Any info appreciated. 08:43:00 evhan [~evhan@209.242.237.5] has joined #lisp 08:46:36 -!- evhan [~evhan@209.242.237.5] has quit [Quit: evhan] 08:50:33 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:50:46 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 08:51:31 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:55 sluggo [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:47 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:51 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:40 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:55:05 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@59.161.97.126] has joined #lisp 08:55:05 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@59.161.97.126] has quit [Changing host] 08:55:05 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 08:55:16 [df] [~df@81.187.8.163] has joined #lisp 08:55:24 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:28 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:52 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 08:57:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:00:15 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has joined #lisp 09:05:20 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:08:27 modulus: I suggest you get a commercial implementation if you want to work on Windows. 09:08:58 Thanks for your suggestion. I doubt I will do that, though. 09:09:21 modulus: You seemed happy to pay for Windows. Why not pay for the Lisp environment also? 09:10:00 plage: great suggestion! 09:11:26 I'm not happy to pay for Windows at all. 09:11:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:11:36 I was quite unhappy about it when I paid for it. 09:12:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:18 Then I suggest you pay for the Lisp implementation and be unhappy about that too. 09:13:37 plage: great suggestion! 09:13:47 leo2007: Thanks! :) 09:15:54 I'd rather minimise the amount of unhappiness. 09:16:36 modulus: In that case I would start by paying for the Lisp implementation and *not* for Windows. 09:16:55 *leo2007* was going to say something 09:17:44 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:12 I can't revoke the payment of Windows at this stage. I can however find a libre lisp. 09:20:17 -!- jesusabd1llah is now known as jesusabdullah 09:20:21 If you have a time machine I will consider that though. 09:20:48 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 09:21:44 the truth is not many people use windows. Using windows is like using any languages other than lisp. 09:23:04 kramer3d [~kramer3d@unaffiliated/kramer3d] has joined #lisp 09:24:10 modulus: clisp works perfectly well on MS-Windows. 09:24:12 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:17 modulus: as does GNU emacs. 09:24:35 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:45 pjb: thx. what about sbcl? 09:24:50 modulus: in both cases, you can use them as native applications, or over cygwin (I would advice cygwin to keep your sanity, but the formers may be interesting for deployment). 09:25:04 modulus: sbcl is newer. It probably still has more bugs on MS-Windows than clisp. 09:25:21 Right, I see. 09:25:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:29 ASau [~user@89-178-225-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:29:42 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:30:41 -!- jsoft_ is now known as jsoft 09:33:45 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:35:39 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.93] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:47 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:15 modulus: clozurecl works fine, also with slime. 09:40:23 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:40:37 that related to clojure at all or just the name? 09:41:32 just the name 09:41:35 it's common lisp 09:41:52 http://www.clozure.com/clozurecl.html 09:44:27 ecl also supports windows (mingw32/msvc) 09:44:32 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:57:12 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:58:18 thx all 09:58:28 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:59:15 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.159] has joined #lisp 10:00:40 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:00:41 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:00:45 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has joined #lisp 10:04:02 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:05:25 H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9E10C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:27 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 10:05:32 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:35 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.184] has joined #lisp 10:06:28 MetalDust 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the symptoms? 11:10:52 apply: Searching for lisp: No such file or directory. 11:10:59 When I try starting slime. 11:12:17 Somelauw: what does M-: inferior-lisp-program say? 11:12:37 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:13:44 "M-x inferior-lisp" says "Run lisp: lisp" 11:14:04 And when I press enter, it fails again to find lisp. 11:14:28 Somelauw: i asked what "M-: inferior-lisp-program" says 11:14:46 [No match] 11:15:13 can you see the difference between M-x and M-:? 11:15:24 Sorry 11:16:31 "lisp" 11:17:07 Somelauw: and M-: slime-lisp-implementations 11:17:37 nil 11:18:09 ok, so, put (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") into your .emacs 11:18:41 By the way, The last thing I changed before I got this error, was adding slime-helper to my .emacs. 11:18:46 I will try. 11:19:34 can you paste your .emacs to http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp ? 11:19:38 Btw, this is the line I added before I got the error: (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 11:19:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:13 ok, if you have problems with slime set-up from quicklisp, report it to quicklisp 11:23:22 because i don't really know what it's supposed to do 11:23:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118046 11:23:51 Okay 11:24:00 Thanks, anyway 11:24:02 Somelauw: if this doesn't work, ask Xach 11:24:50 By the way, adding your line is working. 11:25:06 :D 11:25:08 Thanks 11:25:22 Seems like slime-helper is messing it up. 11:25:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:12 -!- Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has left #lisp 11:26:28 Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has joined #lisp 11:26:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:40 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-64.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:27:55 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-191-30.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:29:20 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-!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:08 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 12:47:20 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:56 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:41 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-177-65-3.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:44 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:37 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:58 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-84-85.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:50 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:21 ASau [~user@95-24-172-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:00:22 *stassats* wonders how hard it would it be to add progress indication for drakma 13:11:13 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:14:35 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:02 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:37 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:32:21 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 13:34:51 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:36:55 -!- p_l|back1p is now known as p_l|backup 13:37:06 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:31 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:39:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-15-1.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:52:09 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:33 sellout [~greg@24-176-188-187.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:31 stassats`: I guess you could steak that of quicklisp? 13:55:36 s/steak/steal/ 13:55:58 but quicklisp doesn't use drakma 13:56:27 stassats`: quicklisp has a progress indicator. 13:57:13 i can write a progress-indicator in two lines of code all right 13:57:35 Ok, so you don't wonder anymore. Good. 13:57:46 but the question is, how do i plug it into drakma 13:58:34 You need to hook into what you want to measure the progress of. I've got the impression quicklisp hooks in defpackage and some other defining forms. 13:59:03 you're not helping 14:00:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-1-56.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:02:56 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:05:55 -!- SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:28 francogrex [~user@109.130.41.18] has joined #lisp 14:08:53 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.5.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:14 -!- dimas [~dimas@185-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:28 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-177-65-3.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:10 vokoda [~vokoda@host86-177-65-3.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.41.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:35 -!- marioxcc-AFK [~user@200.56.150.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:29 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:27:18 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:27:50 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:09 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:29:19 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:21 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 14:32:11 ralcantara [~quassel@212.225.176.9] has joined #lisp 14:37:27 hmm, is slime's C-c C-c expected to DTRT with respect to in-readtable these days? 14:38:03 yes 14:38:12 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 14:38:15 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 okay. Then I must be doing it wrong. 14:39:13 not The Right Thing but somewhat so 14:40:23 in-readtable sets swank::*readtable-alist* which establishes a slime-specific readtable-to-package association 14:40:43 in-readtable is actually supposed to have file-scope, not package-scope, semantics 14:41:32 okay, I've just seen the code myself. My package is loaded before swank. So that explains it. 14:41:58 yeah that's a problem, too 14:42:00 custom core? 14:44:04 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:44:45 custom core, yes. I like having the initial repl as the blessed main Qt thread, from which I start Qt Hemlock, and only then I do M-x Start Swank Server. 14:44:56 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:38 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-150-86-31.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:51 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host86-177-65-3.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:17 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 14:48:42 lichtblau: is there a reason I'm missing why the core couldn't also contain the swank package? 14:49:14 or is it at this point just a ordering issue? 14:49:16 no. Good thing I invented clbuild/usercore.conf today, so I can just put swank into that file at the top! :-) 14:49:24 Pocket [~masato@p3239-ipbf2310hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:51:23 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:47 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 14:56:33 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 14:56:53 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:23 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@121.245.9.217] has joined #lisp 14:58:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:31 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@121.245.9.217] has quit [Changing host] 14:58:31 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 lichtblau: what does it take to make hemlock unicode-aware? 15:00:43 is arguing Madhu futile? 15:00:48 arguing with 15:00:53 yes 15:01:15 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:28 ok, i won't try then 15:01:35 lichtblau: also note this swank readtable handling related fix not in the official: http://dwim.hu/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=slime;a=commitdiff;h=18ce8c5c3b810d71bdee643549152c2b1bfec225 15:01:43 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:48 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1BFE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:02:37 I've also changed our core build/setup so that swank is not included and is loaded on the core, to be able to start the same cores with different slime versions easily 15:02:58 stassats`: well, its strings are just Lisp strings and would hold Unicode characters 15:03:10 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@2.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:17 The "todo" areas are probably 1. getting keybord input right, 2. giving each buffer an external-format to be used on reading and writing. 2a. reading -*- coding-system ... -*- lines 2b. dealing gracefully with errors. 3. for file names, switch to iolib file paths exclusively. 15:04:42 Do any of you know personally if there is a good CL compiler for ultraSPARC? 15:05:16 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-marxcqsetlkpafwq] has joined #lisp 15:05:28 Quadrescence: perhaps cmucl 15:05:31 and 4. redisplay. hemlock.tty would need to check which external-format use for the tty. No idea how hemlock.clx would do it. 15:05:45 Quadrescence: SCL 15:05:45 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 15:06:19 lichtblau: seems to be quite a lot of things to do 15:06:23 p_l|backup: Which one is S? 15:06:46 Scieneer 15:07:18 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:51 it's a fork of CMUCL with native threads and commercial support for HPPA, x86, SPARC and IA-64 (using HP-PA emulation) (all in both 32 and 64bit) 15:08:29 shucks, $300 I can't afford 15:08:41 :( 15:08:52 Quadrescence: Check if you really need to pay, I think they changed the licensing recently 15:09:15 a drop in the water compared all the other things that need doing :-) 15:10:59 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:02 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:15:35 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.210.236.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:43 lichtblau: that's encouraging :) 15:16:17 $300 isn't much 15:16:45 slime wasn't built in one day either! 15:17:41 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:20:07 sacho_ [~sacho@90.154.208.35] has joined #lisp 15:20:57 p_l|backup: It isn't much to those who can afford it. :) 15:21:23 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-6-67.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:29 slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1D8E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:11 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:47 :P 15:23:54 *p_l|backup* couldn't afford it as well :D 15:26:22 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 15:26:23 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:49 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 15:27:40 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1D8E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:05 -!- qfr [void@cpc1-stap2-0-0-cust293.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com.siyobik.info] has quit [Changing host] 15:33:05 qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has joined #lisp 15:33:40 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 15:37:29 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:49 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:41:51 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:43:43 -!- _xvinyl [~xvinyl@ANantes-256-1-55-57.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:44:12 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:47 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:48 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has joined #lisp 15:48:15 macdice [~user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:48:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:48:59 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:00 Quadrescence: the official porting chart on sbcl.org says that sparc cpus were supported by sbcl at 1.0.23. did you try building sbcl? 15:49:10 stassats`: turns out that the syntax tables also aren't unicode-safe yet 15:49:33 Fade: No. I don't have access to the sparc machine quite yet 15:49:55 how can i set the path that sbcl searches when i use (load "foo.lisp")? i tried (sb-posix:chdir "/path/where/file/lives") but load still couldn't find my file 15:49:55 Fade: thanks for the heads up 15:50:26 er, 1.0.28 15:50:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-174-62-225-143.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:19 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.250.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:51:23 macdice: *default-pathname-defaults* 15:51:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:51:58 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:00 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:53:06 stassats`: thanks, i see now that that is documented in the hyperspec 15:54:57 Quadrescence: also, CL will work on UltraSPARC 15:56:07 CL? 15:56:38 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@164.22.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:03 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-150-86-31.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:59:03 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-43-241.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:54 stassats`: corman? 16:04:06 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-147-40-178.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:38 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 16:05:58 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-43-241.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:12:48 colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-73-107.w90-9.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:12:57 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:39 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Adios] 16:16:06 Common Lisp? 16:16:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:17:45 that's why it's an unfortunate abbreviation 16:18:24 -!- colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-73-107.w90-9.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:21:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21:32 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:22:14 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 16:23:31 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:29 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D8E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:33 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:28:46 benny [~benny@i577A313C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:35:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:37:17 -!- matt_vu [~matt.vu@113.11.246.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:38:51 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 16:38:53 krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 16:43:42 matt_vu [~matt.vu@113.11.246.130] has joined #lisp 16:43:46 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45:43 I thought corman was a windows-only implementation. 16:49:47 bsod1 [~osa1@78.175.12.8] has joined #lisp 16:50:55 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:52:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.41.18] has joined #lisp 16:54:25 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-156-2-251.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:30 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-147-40-178.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:43 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:42 Fade: it is 17:11:48 I guess I misunderstood what p_l|backup was talking about. 17:12:06 retrry [~quassel@84.55.45.179] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-172-95.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:35 rodrigo [~rodrigo@nl104-209-62.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:30 how can I evaluate all the scheme file in emacs? there are some command for evaluating the region or evaluating the last s-exp, but I can't find how to evaluate all of the file 17:26:03 bsod1: scheme is in #scheme 17:26:35 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-156-2-251.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:52 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.21] has joined #lisp 17:28:53 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-156-4-73.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:10 Steven_ [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:12 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:36:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:38:35 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:08 stdDoubt [~pedro@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:41:29 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:41:37 How to break from a inner cycle in a loop? suppose (loop x in ... do (loop y in ... do ... ; how to break this cycle and continue the outter one??)) 17:41:41 bsod1 that's more of an #emacs question, isn't it? 17:41:52 -!- Steven_ is now known as sdsds_ 17:42:23 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D8E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:42:24 stdDoubt you can use return or return-from to break out of that, no? 17:42:33 But I'm a noob at Lisp 17:43:44 return, that is right 17:44:17 it will stop the iteration of the inner loop and continue the iteration of the outter loop? 17:44:18 (loop for i to 10 when (evenp i) return i) 17:44:59 stdDoubt: it will return from the inner loop 17:45:35 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:44 rfg [~rfg@82.132.243.25] has joined #lisp 17:46:55 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:12 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 17:51:55 thanks 17:55:58 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 17:57:19 urandom__ [~user@p548A5017.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:48 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:07 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-191-30.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:05:22 how to break both loops in the inner loop? 18:06:12 (loop :named outer :do (loop :named inner :do (return-from outer 42))) 18:06:13 (loop named outer do (loop (return-from outer 10))) 18:06:35 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:30 stdDoubt: notice that 42. is #b101010 three times 10! 18:07:42 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 10 is 42 in base 42 18:08:19 thanks 18:08:45 stassats`: correct, but CL allows only *read-base* up to 36. 18:12:25 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-168-53.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:15:47 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 18:16:23 lispm [~lispm@f054053189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:43 daniel [~daniel@p5082AE29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:48 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 18:17:57 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3264CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:18:41 frobisher [~frobisher@173.180.37.165] has joined #lisp 18:19:04 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:29:41 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:59 marioxcc [~user@200.56.150.72] has joined #lisp 18:35:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:31 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:09 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 18:41:38 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.41.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:11 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-145-188-205.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-156-4-73.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:53 -!- frobisher [~frobisher@173.180.37.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:46 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:50:59 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:27 -!- rvncerr_ [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:53:46 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 18:56:15 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:58:25 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:43 pidu [~user@c83-253-30-176.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:07:49 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:58 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 19:12:47 dimas [~dimas@178.126.200.197] has joined #lisp 19:13:24 -!- lispm [~lispm@f054053189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:15:03 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:16:35 mbalaban [~mbalaban@c-174-62-225-143.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:55 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:55 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:21:02 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:05 -!- dimas [~dimas@178.126.200.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:21:42 fe[nl]ix: in iolib, src/multiplex/queue.lisp: MAKE-PRIORITY-QUEUE creates the queue contents as an adjustable array. HEAP-INSERT which is later used on the content though does plain (incf (fill-pointer heap)) which sometimes causes the queue to overflow. Maybe the array needs to be adjusted there as necessary? I've just put (vector-push-extend new-item heap) there instead of the increment and it seems to work 19:23:59 in my case, timers queue of event-base was getting overflowed due to many (iolib:event-dispatch ... :one-shot t) calls. I use iolib version from quicklisp 19:27:52 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has joined #lisp 19:30:54 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:31:25 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 19:32:40 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-172-95.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:33:38 dimas [~dimas@46.56.43.122] has joined #lisp 19:33:45 hi 19:34:04 ivan4th: if fe[nl]ix doesn't react, then copy-paste this in a mail to iolib-devel, or just directly to him... 19:36:22 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-90-131.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:36:29 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-215.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:38:21 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:38:22 overflow in Xach's heap code? that sounds like a pretty old problem to me. 19:38:40 escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:41:39 hi please 19:41:47 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:56 how can I extract dimensions for 2 dimensional arrays? 19:42:11 -!- mbalaban [~mbalaban@c-174-62-225-143.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:33 ivan4th: src/code/timer.lisp in SBCL looks to me like it has these fixes. Perhaps iolib took code from an older version of Xach's code? 19:42:47 lichtblau: that's correct 19:42:54 Posterdati: is array-dimensions what do you look for? 19:43:59 in slime inspector, how I can go back to the preivously inspected object? 19:44:46 ping 19:44:52 marioxcc: yes 19:45:03 ok, thought my connection was down 19:46:22 -!- rodrigo [~rodrigo@nl104-209-62.student.uu.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:25 marioxcc: l 19:47:52 thanks 19:49:20 how can I extract dimensions for 2 dimensional arrays? 19:49:48 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:50:07 Posterdati: what do you mean by to "extract dimensions"? 19:50:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 marioxcc: I'd like to know array dimension 19:51:11 dimension order? 19:51:23 (array-dimension *array* ) 19:51:42 Fade: thanks 19:51:52 zero indexed, obviously 19:52:25 yes I know 19:56:10 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 19:56:21 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:56:21 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 19:56:22 array-dimensions 19:56:35 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:27 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:13 francogrex [~user@109.130.41.18] has joined #lisp 20:00:00 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:05:26 hah. url shorteners are so much fun it should be illegal 20:05:49 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@78.175.12.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:50 heh 20:06:28 bsod1 [~osa1@88.240.135.231] has joined #lisp 20:06:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:39 seriously, IDNs and unicode chars are just huge fun. 20:07:06 I can't tell if you're being sardonic. ;) 20:07:23 encoding issues usually make my hair turn white. 20:08:13 does your shortener work with international domain names that include, say, chinese chars in the domain? 20:09:05 it just stores the target URL as a collection of bytes 20:09:24 but it generates IDNs that it knows how to redirect (: 20:09:37 (so I'm solving only half the problem... but then, it's the fun half) 20:09:43 cool 20:10:53 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.21] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:11:18 upper and lower case is a huge concern, though 20:11:26 I wrote an irc robot that has an url cataloguing/shortening service that listens in channel for urls and looks up page titles which it catalogues with the target url, returning the shortened url to channel. 20:11:38 (DNS is case-insensitive, so generating the upper-case IDNA representation is wrong) (: 20:11:42 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:54 it's pretty useful in busy technical channels where there's a lot of pasting going on. 20:16:33 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.240.135.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:46 don't want to get goatse'd (: 20:17:40 aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:18:43 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:43 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 20:21:41 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C6AF7B4D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 20:21:41 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 20:21:45 Is there a way I can undefine a generic function? All that's coming to mind is makunbound and that's for symbols... 20:22:14 fmakunbound does function undefining 20:22:44 antifuchs: Thanks. :) 20:27:34 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:12 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:33:30 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:52 -!- vokoda_ [~vokoda@host86-145-188-205.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:36:13 vokoda [~vokoda@host86-145-188-205.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:05 ivan4th: ping 20:44:44 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:28 fe[nl]ix: i'm here 20:48:47 please test the last commit 20:49:09 fe[nl]ix: one moment... 20:50:56 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.151.203] has joined #lisp 20:53:06 complains about idna system not being found... will try to find it 20:53:57 hmm. Before attempting more commonqt performance optimizations, I'll have to go back and find out where this apparent slowdown is coming from. 20:54:13 My hope is that I'm just making a systematic testing error: 10x slower than the last time I ran the benchmarks... pretty hefty. 20:56:20 *lichtblau* should have some time for that investigation later this week 20:57:24 lichtblau: there's that stupid nonconst-name function that in unmarshal.lisp. I've got rid of it in unmarshaller caching commit you didn't merge into master. Maybe that part of the commit needs to be applied, (qtype-name (qtype-deconstify type)) instead of (nonconst-name type). nonconst-name is very bad and silly performance-wise 20:59:03 I saw a lot of cl-ppcre calls in sb-sprof reports before removing it. I introduced the function by mistake earlier. 21:00:52 -!- modulus [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/modulus] has quit [Quit: GTFO] 21:01:20 fe[nl]ix: seemingly found idna: https://github.com/antifuchs/idna Right? 21:01:29 ivan4th: yes 21:01:39 hey, is commonqt working on stuff other than linux yet? 21:02:32 should work anywhere, but it's more easy to get the right libraries on linux 21:02:47 sohail: probably, if you try hard enough ;) 21:03:23 ivan4th: okay, I'll port that change over. It doesn't look to me like it would affect those benchmarks checking the cached code path though. 21:03:24 it's not really that hard, you just need to compile smoke 21:04:04 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.150.72] has left #lisp 21:04:24 I've compiled smoke on mac before 21:04:43 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:44 nice to see that commonqt is actually running as opposed to my library which was compiling for 3 days 21:04:53 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:09 is it just smoke that is the "easy to get" library? 21:05:34 yes, Qt itself is easy to get anywhere 21:06:42 cool 21:06:54 stassats`: if you can download 202 Mb of sources :D 21:07:05 ignas [~ignas@78.63.105.97] has joined #lisp 21:07:11 fe[nl]ix: you can get binaries 21:07:58 I build qt from source anyway :) 21:08:08 of course by anywhere i don't mean "gnu hurd, plan 9, and minix 3" 21:08:17 hahaha 21:08:21 fe[nl]ix: iolib.streams:fd-non-blocking is gone... my code no longer works... 21:08:29 *sohail* scratches gnu hurd support 21:10:01 ivan4th: streams now always use non-blocking FDs 21:10:09 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ca98.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:37 fe[nl]ix: well, this means I'll have to rewrite some of my code before trying out the fix... 21:10:49 it's all strictly async 21:11:56 hi 21:14:32 -!- aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 21:15:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 21:16:08 I wonder how/if interactive development works with commonqt 21:16:37 works ok 21:16:40 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:16:51 fe[nl]ix: what's the best way to work with non-blocking sockets now? 21:17:28 sohail: although all you get for errors are segmentation faults, which often doesn't shed much light on what the actual problem is 21:18:07 stassats`: do you know if they are programming errors or just weirdness? 21:18:13 but all in all, it's actually much nicer than using qt from c++ 21:18:50 I'm sure! 21:18:58 sohail: programmer errors, like things where g++ would complain about wrong types 21:19:01 ah 21:19:10 I wonder if those can be caught by the library in some debug mode 21:19:22 ivan4th: what do you mean ? 21:19:34 wouldn't the marshalling catch/cast properly? 21:20:13 it doesn't catch 100% 21:20:21 -!- rfg [~rfg@82.132.243.25] has quit [Quit: rfg] 21:21:18 well, I hope I get the chance to give it a run soon 21:22:34 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:10 ivan4th [~ivan4th@213.141.132.14] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 is there something like a lightweight object system for cl? I am in particular eying speed over flexibility. 21:23:35 structures! 21:23:37 prxq: defstruct 21:23:53 fe[nl]ix: how about methods and method dispatch? 21:24:17 works on structures 21:25:31 stassats`: sure enough, but isn't that the slow part? 21:25:41 is it? 21:25:49 fe[nl]ix: frankly speaking I wrote my iolib-facing code more than a year ago a didn't modify it much since. I need to be able to create non-blocking active / pasive sockets. All operations need to be non-blocking (accepting connections, reading-writing data). What I did before is use iolib-sockets:make-socket and then doing (iolib.streams:fd-non-blocking socket t). Now it seems to be more complex than that... 21:26:00 s/pasive/passive/ 21:26:38 (iolib.streams:fd-non-blocking socket t) -> i mean (setf (iolib.streams:fd-non-blocking socket) t) 21:26:51 ivan4th: now all FDs created by iolib are already non-blocking 21:26:59 you can simply remove that call and be done 21:27:42 fe[nl]ix: ok, thanks! 21:30:02 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:32 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-86-34.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:30:41 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:31:07 stassats`, lichtblau: btw, I thought about introducing optional (slower) safe mode that would hold all pointers to QObjects in QPointer objects, that become null when corresponding QObject is deleted (another way is using destroyed() signal, but it may interfere with other destroyed()) handlers. This way, trying to access a deleted qobject will result in proper error being signalled instead of a page fault. 21:31:19 DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:31:19 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 21:31:19 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 21:31:49 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-215.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:01 -!- pidu [~user@c83-253-30-176.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Sleepy time] 21:33:17 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-221-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:05 ivan4th: sounds interesting 21:34:13 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:58 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-229-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:10 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:35:50 it's also possible to use underlying 'guard' meachanism but I'm not sure that it gives any advantages over QPointer 21:36:38 I had qpointer-based code some time ago, but that was back when CommonQt tried to free objects automatically using finalizers. 21:37:58 i actually don't destroy objects in my code, it's in "figure it later" 21:38:28 We already keep track of deleted objects. Isn't this as easy as putting (SETF (QOBJECT-POINTER OBJECT) FOO) right next to the (SETF (QOBJECT-DELETED OBJECT) T) in NOTE-DELETED? 21:38:54 [actually, we probably call note-deleted before running the dtor override at the moment; we'd have to do it afterwards instead] 21:39:42 FOO would be a null pointer, or a magic-marker like :deleted, I'm not certain what the best way would be. 21:39:48 stassats`: you don't think clos's high flexibility has a cost? 21:39:51 while using with-objects instead of LET is trivial, i didn't like using it instead of just doing (#_something (#_new ...)) 21:40:06 prxq: everything has a cost 21:40:43 though, i suppose when i do (#_addSomethingTo object (#_new ...)), object will take care of it 21:41:25 yeah, with-objects isn't needed when there is transfer of ownership anyway. 21:42:00 I sometimes do (with-objects (~) ... (#_frob ... (setf ~ (#_new ...)) ...)). 21:42:10 Where ~ is a placeholder variable name. 21:42:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-85.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:42:58 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-136-54-252.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:27 another problem, qt doesn't like creating some objects in another threads 21:44:44 can that somehow be enforced? 21:45:21 because it crashes lisp, not just a memory fault 21:48:14 fe[nl]ix: well, my code doen't seem to work at all with newer iolib for some reason, even after removing (setf (iolib.streams:fd-non-blocking socket) t). will investigate it further a bit later 21:50:13 lichtblau: btw, NOTE-DELETED is invoked only for 'smoked' x_* objects (from their destructor), isn't it? So this may not work for objects that were created by Qt itself. 21:53:08 Fade: my misspelling - it was supposed to be "ECL", but my keyboard has barely-working #\E key :/ 21:56:03 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:56:09 Quadrescence: it was supposed to be "ECL", my keyboard seems to lose its Es 21:56:31 Does ECL support threads? I don't remember. (I don't think so) 21:56:32 *nod* 21:56:38 Quadrescence: it does 21:56:42 Quadrescence: it does 21:56:42 Oh okay. 21:56:48 Quadrescence: It does. 21:57:21 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-152-187-94.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:31 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@76.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:36 Quadrescence: i beat you! 21:58:54 amb007 [~a_bakic@76.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:18 ivan4th: hmm. To learn about the destruction of non-smoke Qt objects, we would have to cache them (weakly), so that their qpointer can be deleted if the lisp side reference goes away. I gave up on this sort of caching as long time ago. 21:59:47 sorry, "a long time" I mean 22:00:46 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:12 An optional API function to enable caching and/or finalization of specific objects? Yes. By default for every non-smoke object returned from a function? no, I don't think that'll work well. 22:01:40 lichtblau: would this be too late to give up on Qt and switch to something else ? 22:01:48 cocoa/cocotron perhaps ? 22:02:50 fe[nl]ix: give up on Qt for which project? 22:02:52 CommonQt will not switch to Cocoa! :-) 22:03:14 lichtblau: for hemlock 22:03:34 besides, CCL already supports cocoa, no need to reinvent that, right? 22:03:34 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:49 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:19 fe[nl]ix: is cocotron supporting linux already? 22:04:24 oh, for hemlock. Well, I want hemlock to (continue to) have multiple backends. I have nothing against a cocoa backend; it would augment rather than replace the Qt backend though. 22:05:00 lichtblau: ccl, but not sbcl 22:05:47 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:42 well, I'm happy with Qt. I invite the Mac users out there to write a cocoa hemlock backend though... :-) 22:07:05 stassats`: ok, cocoa/gnustep/cocotron :) 22:07:37 i think it's better to focus on something, than spread efforts 22:07:53 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:10:11 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:13:18 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:13:57 ivan4th: hmm, I'm talking back what I just said -- to an extent anyway. We need to make a distinction between non-smoke QObjects and non-smoke, non-QObject C++ objects. 22:15:26 ivan4th: QPointers help only with QObjects anyway, and it might not be a bad idea to strongly cache even non-smoke QObjects. 22:18:35 lichtblau: what non-QObject C++ objects does commonqt use ? 22:20:09 the most obvious, QString 22:20:30 sirmacik: pozostae elementy istniej i w wikszoi wypadków nie s opcjami. Ale w miar nowy kernel + TOMOYO, i moesz mie praktycznie pen funkcjonalno bez strasznego problemu gdzie kto sobie zmapuje /etc/passwd na inne ni systemowe i zrobi su - ; 22:20:43 wrong language! 22:20:47 sorry, mistyped and switched windows 22:20:56 yonatan_ [~yonatan@93-173-55-177.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 22:21:17 fe[nl]ix: Qt defines many non-QObject classes 22:21:40 In addition, any C++ class a user has generated a smoke module for. 22:22:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-15-1.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 rfg [~rfg@82.132.243.24] has joined #lisp 22:29:48 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.151.203] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:34:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:36:02 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:37:23 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:31 pdo 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