00:01:09 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:55 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:02 Blkt: No worries. 00:03:07 Blkt: Now write a game! 00:03:07 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:27 on my way to write hang man 00:04:36 (at least I think that's it's name) 00:05:04 its* 00:05:48 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:02 Blkt: cools :) 00:09:55 -!- schmx is now known as schmrkc 00:10:16 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:25 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:19:03 aaa_ [724f3238@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.79.50.56] has joined #lisp 00:21:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:21:31 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:55 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:24:12 -!- aaa_ [724f3238@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.79.50.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:24:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:59 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:15 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:30:01 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:14 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:41:23 -!- fpc [~user@ppp-71-139-20-12.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:29 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 00:41:44 fpc [~user@ppp-71-139-20-12.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:11 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:42 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 00:45:09 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:48:19 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:48:22 What does /= stand for? 00:48:31 not = 00:48:49 I meant \= 00:48:53 (\= 1 2) 00:48:57 nil 00:49:12 and documentation also returns nil 00:49:21 \ is an escaping character there 00:50:19 okay 00:56:12 =/ 00:57:55 -!- fpc [~user@ppp-71-139-20-12.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:58:13 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224121020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 00:59:10 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:17 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:00:06 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:17 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 01:03:59 good night everyone 01:04:13 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-151-228-188.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 01:08:59 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:27 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:12:40 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-86.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:13:51 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C1C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:15:41 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 01:16:00 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 01:21:50 -!- rfg [~rfg@82.132.211.104] has quit [Quit: rfg] 01:25:10 -!- sellout [~greg@24-176-188-187.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: sellout] 01:27:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:05 lisp doesn't officially support tail recursion, but almost all implementations do 01:28:45 Somelauw: ok 01:28:56 Is there any reason not to rely on it? 01:29:25 Somelauw: If you know that the implementation you're targetting supports it then I see no reason not to. 01:30:25 Has anyone worked with cl-graph at all? 01:32:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.173.223] has joined #lisp 01:35:57 -!- masonium [~user@ip68-108-148-3.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:29 masonium [~user@ip68-108-148-3.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:55 I can't really find much of any documentation on cl-graph 01:39:13 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.116.173.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:15 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:45 murray chria ma 01:44:18 why is clsql's default behavior create a database schema that's "very much denormalized"? 01:45:56 *yates* listens and hears nothing but crickets... 01:46:21 i vote we all step away from the computer and check for snow... 01:46:51 -!- Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 01:49:20 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:35 No snow here 01:51:04 (Okay, I didn't check, but I'm in central Mexico...) 01:51:32 fds: odds are... 01:51:46 snow here tomorrow night: 1 to 3 inches! woo-hoo! 01:53:37 davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:16 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:57:15 is there an alternative to clsql? 01:57:40 postmodern on postgresql has the nicest CL interface 01:58:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:58:48 dlowe: thanks - i'd heard of it - i guess i'll check it out. 01:58:58 i actually prefer postgresql for the dbms anyway 02:00:03 Same here 02:00:28 Although my server still has MySQL... and PHP :[ still haven't finished the rewrite of that 02:01:33 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.67] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:03:35 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #lisp 02:06:20 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:08:36 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:49 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:13:05 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:14:03 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:42 -!- masonium [~user@ip68-108-148-3.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:24 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:15:55 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 02:16:34 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:52 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:30:45 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 02:34:31 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-87-89-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:53:39 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:51 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:54:11 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055251208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:18 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 02:58:21 boscop [~boscop@f055203132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:03:02 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 03:04:55 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 03:09:01 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055203132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:59 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:14:02 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 03:19:47 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:19:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:21:01 scratch [1000@64-5-70-196.longlines.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:17 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:37 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 03:22:47 pnq [~nick@ACA2202E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:27:39 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:28:28 how do you modify quicklisp to include other projects that aren't there? 03:30:23 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 03:33:31 sohail: just use ASDF. 03:35:27 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:49 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 pkhuong: sure, but I thought it was extensible somehow 03:37:01 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 03:37:27 sohail: if a system is visible via asdf, you can use ql:quickload on it. 03:38:05 Xach: hello and ok, thanks 03:38:19 I like quicklisp, nice work :) 03:38:34 thanks 03:39:43 it worked too, bonus 03:40:14 I guess it just tries to find the system using asdf if it can't find it otherwise? 03:42:48 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:56 -!- scratch [1000@64-5-70-196.longlines.com] has left #lisp 03:43:17 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:43:46 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 03:45:00 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:12 the other way around. if it can be found with asdf it doesn't try to find it within quicklisp. 03:46:37 that means you can install local versions of quicklisp libraries if e.g. you need customized or updated versions. 03:47:31 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:47:54 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:51:08 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 03:52:08 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:21 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:52:46 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:53:52 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:34 ah, got it. thanks 04:00:33 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 04:00:47 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:00:48 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has joined #lisp 04:01:17 csmax_ [~max@p5DE8F7EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:42 I have a 2-dimensional data, for example, "date by firm", then which one would be more efficient between 2-d array and hashtable? 04:04:30 -!- csmax [~max@p5790F0BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:06:09 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:59 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 04:07:06 kenjin2201: what are you trying to do? 04:11:30 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:12:39 hohoho [~hohoho@131.112.237.20] has joined #lisp 04:15:22 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:17 Various. I may want a single observation, or a time-series of stock price, or I may want to sort data by market value for a give date. 04:17:20 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@131.112.237.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:21:37 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:25 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:22:34 Pocket [~masato@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:22:59 kenjin2201: Sounds like you want a database (: 04:24:41 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:29:38 -!- Pocket [~masato@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:30:33 pocket_ [~Pocket@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:30:42 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:59 I'm not a programmer or anything. I'm simply curious about which one can be faster for my work, since I'm dealing with large files. 04:32:29 simias: are you still around? 04:33:14 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:44 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:14 Is there any good way to save arity of function. 04:34:25 I wrote some macro to seve it. 04:35:34 I http://paste.lisp.org/display/118028 04:35:50 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:36:03 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 04:36:25 pocket_: what is the arity of (my-defun foo (bar &optional baz) ...)? 04:36:46 yes this is known bug. 04:37:04 Mey be it doesn't work. :-( 04:38:01 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:23 But I can work with some basic function. 04:39:25 pocket_: most implementations have a way to get that info without a wrapping macro. check the slime/swank sources to see how it does it. 04:39:51 Thank you! 04:40:56 econdudeawesome [~tom@28.sub-69-96-90.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 04:41:25 is there a way to retrieve the keys of a hash table? 04:41:39 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:41:46 Hi! I'm interested in learning lisp but don't know the first thing about how to start. I am running an Ubuntu box. Any suggestions or favored tutorials? 04:41:55 osoleve: many. i use (alexandria:hash-table-keys table) 04:41:57 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:11 econdudeawesome: apt-get install sbcl 04:42:22 And google "practical common lisp" 04:42:34 econdudeawesome: i don't know of a tutorial offhand, but when i want to get going, i use sbcl from www.sbcl.org (not from apt-get) and then load quicklisp with it, then load slime with quicklisp, then get to hacking in emacs with slime and sbcl. 04:42:37 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 04:42:45 qfr: will do on the googling. What is sbcl? 04:42:57 econdudeawesome: sbcl is the most popular implementation of common lisp. 04:43:03 Xach: is that because the repos version is not up to date? 04:43:04 Xach: thanks, looking into it 04:43:33 econdudeawesome: it is sometimes out of date but always, on debian, customized in ways I don't like. i prefer the straight upstream stuff. 04:44:09 Xach: fair enough. Do you think a beginner would see an appreciable difference? 04:44:39 econdudeawesome: If you run into trouble, one of the first things someone here might say is "ditch the repo version" to proceed with helping. 04:44:49 That's one of the reasons I prefer Arch over Debian based distros like Ubuntu 04:44:54 More recent binaries 04:45:21 well alright. I'll go with the upstream stuff. 04:45:28 many dependencies? 04:45:40 econdudeawesome: None. Just install the binary. 04:45:54 econdudeawesome: If you want to build it from source, you need a CL compiler. SBCL works nicely. 04:46:15 k 04:46:40 thanks y'all! I'm sure I'll be back around with common and uncommon newb questions :-) 04:46:53 have a nice night/day and a merry christmas wherever in the world y'all are 04:47:04 econdudeawesome: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a pretty good book on learning CL 04:47:12 econdudeawesome: available online and in hardcopy 04:47:42 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:09 mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:48 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203074432]] 04:48:51 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 04:49:00 practical common lisp moves pretty quick 04:52:29 -!- econdudeawesome [~tom@28.sub-69-96-90.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:52:31 i couldn't figure out how to get alexandria, so i rolled my own function to get hash keys 04:52:34 hooray for thinking! 04:52:48 ? 04:53:01 osoleve: you type (ql:quickload "alexandria") 04:53:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3808.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:47 Xach: okay, I tried that and it made slime angry 04:54:08 osoleve: you need to install the software at www.quicklisp.org first. 04:54:29 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:55:27 Xach: okay, doing so now 04:59:03 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Merry Christmas] 04:59:07 Xach: wow, that's really cool, thanks 05:01:29 sellout [~greg@24-176-188-187.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:25 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:03:36 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.179] has joined #lisp 05:05:15 what are some good resources for a lisp beginner? outside of Practical common lisp 05:05:44 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 05:06:10 If you're also a beginner to programming, "A Gentle Introduction" might be nice 05:06:17 !gentle 05:06:20 ,gentle 05:06:22 Hmph 05:07:14 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:07:45 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 05:08:46 I'm not really a programming beginner, but the first chapter in PCL that has actual lisp in it is a little bit daunting 05:09:05 it's sort of an intimidating whirlwind tour I suppose 05:09:21 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:09:31 mister_m what chapter would that be in your opinion? 05:09:48 I only did the first 3 I think 05:10:04 qfr, "3. Practical: A Simple Database" 05:10:49 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:11:23 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.125] has joined #lisp 05:12:28 zenlunatic [~bradley@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:34 http://gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html 05:12:46 mister_m: you can try http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/contents.html 05:17:02 I imagine chapter 4 will probably be more gentile, so I'll power through the rest of this chapter and peek at the next at least 05:17:05 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:17:45 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.70] has joined #lisp 05:18:45 xavierHart [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/xavierhart] has joined #lisp 05:20:09 adeht, thank you 05:20:23 chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has joined #lisp 05:22:10 mister_m: but indeed, PCL chapter 3 begins with the advice to not sweat the small stuff in it 05:23:17 adeht, I'm content enough to follow along (slowly) with the REPL for this chapter 05:24:23 -!- chp [~chp@2001:da8:a000:155:5eff:35ff:fe0c:c3ef] has quit [Client Quit] 05:26:34 mister_m: I'll agree with PCL being a bit daunting. 05:27:48 I'm thinking it is the lambdas that do it. 05:32:54 mister_m what programming languages were you fluent in before you started messing with Lisp? 05:34:00 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C6AF7B4D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:34:00 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:34:06 qfr, I wouldn't say fluent really - but I've worked mostly with java 05:36:12 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 05:36:52 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:18 This would indeed make chapter 3 daunting. 05:38:13 well I wouldn't say that I'm completely ill prepared though. I've looked at SICP a little bit before. I got far enough to nullify whatever fear of parenthesis I may have had 05:38:31 mister_m: Wow, that's pretty early for Lisp 05:39:30 Most people I know who try Lisp/Haskell etc are usually already fluent in a variety of languages like C, C++, Java, Python, Ruby, etc 05:39:43 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 05:40:41 qfr, I've had exposure to more than just java, but I would say that I am most "fluent" in java 05:40:59 I wouldn't put C, pr perl on my resume or anything like that 05:43:43 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:45:28 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.253] has joined #lisp 05:45:51 leifw [~user@cpe-74-74-140-33.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:45:56 -!- mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:46:03 pfft. put it there right now" 05:46:35 Everyone knows that you don't have to tell the truth on your CV 05:48:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:49:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-15-1.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:50:29 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:50:34 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:50:34 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 05:50:34 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 05:51:49 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.148] has joined #lisp 05:53:41 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 05:56:22 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:00:11 manugupta [~manugupt1@121.245.42.196] has joined #lisp 06:00:26 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:09 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:23 -!- manugupta is now known as manugupt1 06:01:35 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@121.245.42.196] has quit [Changing host] 06:01:35 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 06:03:00 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 06:06:09 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:06 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 06:13:45 -!- sellout [~greg@24-176-188-187.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: sellout] 06:14:53 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 06:16:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:21:50 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:27:49 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:28:43 fds: darned. I always tell the truth in my CV 06:29:10 That's your first mistake 06:29:35 hehehe. 06:29:41 It doesn't seem to be so bad :) 06:29:56 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:08 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:58 -!- _ProgMan [~unknown@80.92.102.131] has quit [] 06:45:45 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 06:45:59 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 06:48:44 eihrul [~eihrul@84-231-123-153.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 06:49:14 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@84-231-123-153.elisa-mobile.fi] has left #lisp 06:50:37 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 06:50:53 foenichs [~erlang@223.255.224.10] has joined #lisp 06:51:45 beerTRUCKz [~beerTRUCK@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:52 -!- seangrove 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[~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:32:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:34:41 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.40.142] has left #lisp 07:34:50 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2202E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: This person is going down for sleep NOW!] 07:36:11 -!- xavierHart [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/xavierhart] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:38:23 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:41:54 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:17 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:51:54 matt_vu [~matt.vu@113.11.246.131] has joined #lisp 07:52:25 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:44 hi all 07:52:52 hello 07:53:09 how can i start with LISP? totally new 07:53:21 a little code experience 07:53:38 -!- beerTRUCKz [~beerTRUCK@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:42 lookin for pointers and starters 07:54:02 «A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation», «Practical Common Lisp» 07:54:40 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:54:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:54:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:55:15 sicp is pretty frequently suggested, but I've never read it 07:55:33 structure and interpretation something something, probably of computer programs 07:55:37 ok awesome 07:56:45 "of computer programs" indeed... sicp is a general cs course using scheme as teaching language 07:57:09 the other two suggested books are using common lisp 07:57:11 SICP is very very good 07:57:16 like ive said, not into coding, im trialing frm scratch... 07:57:20 There are also the SICP video lectures 07:57:28 great 07:57:39 you'll probably like sicp and "a gentle introdution to symbolic computation" then as a beginner 07:57:51 http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 07:57:56 thanks phadthai 07:57:57 s/introdution/introduction/ 07:57:59 Also available on youtube 07:58:20 matt_vu: they're all available for free 08:02:26 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:02:38 so peter siebel wrote practical common lisp. does he hangout here too? 08:02:56 yes 08:03:17 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 08:03:31 c.o.o.l. 08:03:37 dimas [~dimas@178.120.22.234] has joined #lisp 08:07:03 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:08:07 -!- foenichs [~erlang@223.255.224.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:15:27 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:19:34 -!- dimas [~dimas@178.120.22.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:21:17 eslick [~eslick@c-67-164-72-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:07 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.210.156.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:24:42 -!- eslick [~eslick@c-67-164-72-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:25:25 *stassats* is unhappy that ironclad requires simple-arrays 08:27:06 stassats: I had that problem 08:27:17 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-40-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:27:37 "had" means that you solved it? 08:27:47 Depends on what you mean by solved 08:28:03 The "solution" i used to just get shit done 08:28:13 was to make a simple-array and copy stuff 08:28:44 instead of having a vector with a fill-pointer i'll use a vector with an intger 08:29:00 that's my "solution" 08:30:35 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-18-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:30:35 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:30:37 and initially i thought "hey, once in a century i've found a use for fill-pointer", no dice 08:31:31 optimization is the root of all evil 08:31:36 so u have to learn functions to start 08:31:42 :) 08:32:03 dimas [~dimas@178.120.22.234] has joined #lisp 08:33:42 stassats: Ironclad shouldn't force simple-array 08:34:07 damn, this encrypted-text-may-be-shorter is tricky to handle 08:34:08 It could provide some compiler macro if it can do something magical when it's a simple-array 08:34:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:41 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.105.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:37:28 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.102] has joined #lisp 08:37:54 -!- dimas [~dimas@178.120.22.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:39:08 i guess i'd have to store the original length in the resulting encrypted file as well 08:39:50 -!- xscroll [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40:11 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:40:28 xscroll [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:57 encryption is trickier than i thought it would be 08:45:01 another solution: using stream ciphers, they seem to give the same size 08:45:50 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:54 hohoho [~hohoho@bm202-238-185-195.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:55:21 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:44 -!- pocket_ [~Pocket@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ] 08:58:12 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:46 pocket_ [~pocket_@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:02:02 Good afternoon everyone! 09:02:13 hi plage 09:04:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@bm202-238-185-195.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:06:07 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:12:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:43 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-86.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:13:58 -!- aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:16:13 aidalgol [aidan@self-implosion.info] has joined #lisp 09:17:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:22:02 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:22:50 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:27:33 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:36:44 I published a library of IDN manipulation routines yesterday. now, to put them into jofr.li (: 09:37:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@203.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:41:19 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 09:45:02 klaush [~user@cpe.atm2-0-1121036.virnxx11.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:50:28 -!- klaush [~user@cpe.atm2-0-1121036.virnxx11.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:51:06 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:32 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:57 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 09:57:06 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:04:51 H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E045.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:06 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:19 dimas [~dimas@38-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by] has joined #lisp 10:08:35 -!- H4ns` [~user@p579F8E98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:20 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:39 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:42 antifuchs: https://github.com/sionescu/iolib/commit/6638b7a524501f82e4b8068cb553d5729389ce68 :) 10:11:29 -!- dimas [~dimas@38-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:46 fe[nl]ix: and where is the change for .asd? 10:12:20 oops 10:13:08 thanks :) 10:15:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:22:17 fe[nl]ix: hah! 10:22:26 fe[nl]ix: awesome - hope it really works (: 10:28:48 SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:26 I'm trying t backtrack in GNU CLISP 2.49 Does anyone know how? 10:29:48 this book says something about :9 10:29:55 Land of Lisp 10:30:09 it doesnt work so now I'm clueless 10:30:31 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-64-144.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:30:36 common lisp doesn't have automatic back-tracing 10:31:30 I haven't executed the line yet. I just pressed carriage return 10:32:15 i i i i i i i ooooo o ooooooo ooooo ooooo 10:32:16 I I I I I I I 8 8 8 8 8 o 8 8 10:32:16 I \ `+' / I 8 8 8 8 8 8 10:32:16 \ `-+-' / 8 8 8 ooooo 8oooo 10:32:16 `-__|__-' 8 8 8 8 8 10:32:16 | 8 o 8 8 o 8 8 10:32:16 ------+------ ooooo 8oooooo ooo8ooo ooooo 8 10:32:17 Welcome to GNU CLISP 2.49 (2010-07-07) 10:32:17 Copyright (c) Bruno Haible, Michael Stoll 1992, 1993 10:32:18 Copyright (c) Bruno Haible, Marcus Daniels 1994-1997 10:32:18 Copyright (c) Bruno Haible, Pierpaolo Bernardi, Sam Steingold 1998 10:32:19 Copyright (c) Bruno Haible, Sam Steingold 1999-2000 10:32:19 Copyright (c) Sam Steingold, Bruno Haible 2001-2010 10:32:20 Type :h and hit Enter for context help. 10:32:20 err 10:32:22 dimas [~dimas@46.56.152.200] has joined #lisp 10:32:30 don't do that 10:32:30 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.89.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:32:44 didn't mean to paste the full thing 10:32:46 :X 10:33:12 -!- xscroll [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:33:14 and you were talking about different backtracking 10:34:10 I messed up the [4] line by pressing carriage return 10:34:20 how do I undo? 10:34:54 SV_Nik: check out paste.lisp.org 10:35:04 k 10:35:05 (paste your code / text there) (: 10:35:15 o.0 10:35:18 next time... 10:37:42 anyone know how to undo the carriage return? 10:38:11 asking twice won't find more people who know how 10:38:29 maybe they missed it the first time? 10:38:45 they didn't 10:39:22 maybe they weren't at the desk 10:39:22 in any case, it's readline-related question 10:40:01 ooo, where do I go to get it answered? 10:45:19 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:51:58 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 10:52:04 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C0EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:47 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:58:29 az [~az@p4FE4EDB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:53 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has left #lisp 11:06:11 -!- dimas [~dimas@46.56.152.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-132.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:07:16 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:11:26 ? 11:12:28 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:17:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:26 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 11:20:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has joined #lisp 11:23:28 dimas [~dimas@178.168.205.84] has joined #lisp 11:27:04 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:17 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:35:02 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:31 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.124.193] has joined #lisp 11:47:04 -!- dimas [~dimas@178.168.205.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:10 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:55:22 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 11:56:34 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EDB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 12:00:37 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:02:27 ziga` [~user@BSN-61-41-95.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:27 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.124.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:45 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:06:20 13:02 *** NAMES [df] _3b _8david _s1gma ``Erik abeaumont ace4016 acieroid adeht Adrinael aidalgol Aisling akkartik albino alexsuraci Amadiro amaron antifuchs AntiSpamMeta antoszka araujo arbscht ASau Athas Axioplase_ baley Beetny benny bfein bigjust_` billstclair Borbus borism boyscared Bucciarati Buganini bzzbzz ccl-logbot ch077179 chitech churib_ cibs cky clog clop2 cmm cods cpt_nemo CrazyEddy csmax_ cYmen daniel D 12:06:20 arthShrine dcrawford deepfire delYsid Demosthenes derrida devinus devn djinni` dmiles_afk Dodek dostoyevsky Draggor drdo DrForr dym easyE ehu ejohnson eli elly em eno entrosca erk eugu euphidime Euthydemus Fade fds fe[nl]ix felipe fmu fmu__ fnordus foom froggey froydnj Fullma galdor gds gemelen Ginei_Morioka gju_ gnooth gonzojive gravicappa guaqua guther gz H4ns`` HDurer_home hdurer`` herbieB hohoho hohum homie house 12:06:20 l huehnts hugod ianmcorvidae incandenza ineiros insomniaSalt Intensity ivan4th ivenkys Jabberwockey jamief Jasko jayne jesusabdullah jewel jkantz joast johs jomat jrockway jsnell jsoft_ JuanDaugherty juniorroy Kaek karbak katesmith kencausey kephas Khisanth kleppari kloeri knobo` koning_robot kooll Kovensky krappie_ krl Krystof l_a_m La0fer leifw lharc lianj lispmeister_ lnostdal Lochy lonstein lorenz__ luis` lusory 12:06:20 madnificent majoh mal__ manugupt1 mathrick matt_vu MetalDust mgr_ mitre Modius mornfall mrSpec mtd muddyferret_ nimred nipra njan npoektop nuba nullman Obfuscate oconnore Odin- OliverUv osoleve ozzloy p_l|backup pattern Patzy pchrist pdo peddie Pepe_ petercoulton peterhil petter` phadthai PissedNumlock pjb pkhuong poindontcare pok_ Posterdati pr prip PuffTheMagic qebab qfr Quadrescence quasi_ quasisane rabite rafl ra 12:06:20 hul Ralith ramus rapacity reb` redline6561 retrry rokstar rotty rvncerr s0ber sacho Salamander sam_ schmrkc scode SecretAg1nt sentry sepi setheus sglinux shachaf sid3k sigjuice simias simplechat sirmacik sixpoint8 slane slash_ slyrus sm` sonnym spacebat spcshpopr8r SpitfireWP srcerer stassats stepnem stettberger strlen surrounder SV_Nik svk_ sword symbole` talyz Tasunteld tcr TeMPOraL tessier theBlackDragon thijso ti 12:06:21 c timchen1` timjstewart1 tomaw Tordek trigen Tristam tritchey tvaalen tychoish ve vert2_ vokoda vsync warzl wgl Xantoz xavieran xinming Xof xristos xyxxyyy yahooooo Yamazaki-kun yan___ z0d ZabaQ Zahl zakwilson zbigniew zc00gii zenlunatic Zhivago ziga` zvrba |3b| 12:06:36 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-61-41-95.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has left #lisp 12:07:02 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-156-238-62.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:18 hello all 12:19:42 *tychoish* waves 12:26:32 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:51 mhm 12:27:54 samr :) 12:29:21 bobzhangatthu [~user@th206127.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 12:32:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has joined #lisp 12:34:49 in ecl to there is a function ext:setenv to set environ variables, is there something similar in sbcl ? 12:35:03 boscop [~boscop@f055203132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:27 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.7-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:55 francogrex, yes but I can't remember of the top of my head 12:35:59 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:36:48 ok I'm googling but it's sluggish 12:36:56 or at least I could set an environment variable in some way 12:37:23 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:22 sb-posix:setenv 12:39:23 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-15-1.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:28 francogrex, ^ 12:39:40 ok Guthur thanks 12:42:46 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:48:26 (sb-unix::posix-getenv "HOME") 12:49:02 soory I realized I had asked this question already some timle ago: "20:56 Hi in sbcl one can have this to get the environment variables (sb-unix::posix-getenv "HOME") but is there something to set them (like setenv ?) " 12:49:27 *francogrex* 's new years resolution: become less senile! 12:49:32 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:46 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-86.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:50 vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:21 (sb-posix:putenv "string") also was good for me 12:56:47 I thought you could setf the getenv? 12:59:54 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:00:36 but there is actually a sb-posix:setenv 13:00:50 as I posted, I wasn't making it up, hehe 13:02:17 the overwrite argument is a 1 or 0 13:02:57 I suppose that is something to do with POSIX compliance 13:03:29 francogrex: note, you shouldn't ever use sb-unix, it's an internal package 13:04:46 yossef [~yossef@189.82.162.33] has joined #lisp 13:05:07 jlj 13:05:25 -!- yossef [~yossef@189.82.162.33] has left #lisp 13:08:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-116.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:09:37 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:10:32 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:46 stassats: I know, you had told me that... some time agi 13:11:48 ago 13:12:22 Guthur: I know, there are the 2 13:15:29 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:16:09 _icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5DA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:35 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:08 icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5DA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:19 -!- icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5DA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:00 done some tests: http://francoatgrex.tripod.com 13:20:00 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:42 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.210.156.188] has joined #lisp 13:21:22 why pdf? 13:21:49 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-86.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:30:47 it's easy to store the plots in pdf, might as well be jpg and other formats I think 13:32:43 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-156-238-62.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:22 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:34:40 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:52 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0BA32.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:43 retrry_ [~quassel@78-57-31-112.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:36:30 -!- retrry [~quassel@78-57-31-112.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:17 here: if one doesn't like the pdf link: http://francoatgrex.tripod.com 13:37:30 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C0EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:43:34 at first look, the mersenne twister algorithm doesn't seem so bad 13:45:45 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-132-122-98.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:47 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:52 you could measure performance also 13:47:30 and it would be more interesting to compare several lisp implementations 13:47:31 stassats: i would like to; still researching. 13:48:01 yes; this nowis sbcl 13:48:16 good suggestion 13:52:16 Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 I love this in ecl #+ ecl (load "c:/emacs/zscripts/c-embed/rcl.fas") 13:53:56 really? 13:54:18 and why are your special variables not wearing earmuffs? 13:54:38 the fact that you can load all in one shut 13:55:05 i always forget the earmuffs (i live in a warm country) 13:55:15 Is .clc related to lisp? 13:55:22 and you could really use asdf 13:55:25 Somelauw: yes 13:55:32 it's the dreaded common-lisp-contreller 13:56:22 Because quicklisp complains about .clc not being an absolute path. 13:56:47 Should I install common-lisp-controller before I can use quicklisp? 13:57:24 no 13:57:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:57:43 Somelauw: (sb-ext:run-program (merge-pathnames "test-exec") nil) 13:57:46 pff 13:57:55 Somelauw: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/release-notes.html 13:57:59 stassats: it is asdf all in one: alexandria, babel, trivial-features, cffi and rcl; with ecl's (asdf:make-build :rcl :type :fasl) you can "condense" into one fas file 13:58:07 (wrong paste buffer) 13:59:36 I already seem to have installed common-lisp-controller before since it appears in the list of installed software. 14:00:05 So quicklisp should work 14:00:06 Somelauw: see the fourth bullet on the link above 14:00:12 However when I start it, it says: ASDF could not load sb-posix because Not an absolute pathname #P"~/.clc/systems/". 14:00:19 I will read it. 14:00:42 read it immediately! 14:00:51 Somelauw: using sbcl i suppose? 14:00:57 yes 14:01:14 strange, never had this complaint 14:01:59 but obviously i'm not on that debian 14:02:49 So, if I remove cl-asdf it should work again? 14:03:14 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 14:03:15 removing /etc/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/02-common-lisp-controller-userdir.conf didn't help? 14:03:22 because that sounds easier 14:05:37 I did 14:05:54 And now I get a different error. 14:07:11 http://pastebin.com/Mq7sxpkw 14:07:41 i don't see any errors there 14:09:27 Somelauw: sbcl complains a lot (or rather gives a lot of notes) doesn't mean it's an error 14:09:38 Then they are probably warnings. 14:09:47 yes or just notes 14:09:51 (ERROR "Cannot determine default case of symbols.") 14:11:24 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:26 Okay, thanks, quicklisp is working now 14:14:45 When I restart sbcl, it doesn't print the same messages again. 14:14:58 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16:52 because it has already compiled the needed files 14:21:39 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:21:45 Now I want to install "iterate". 14:22:01 I succeeded doing that with quicklisp. 14:22:35 But to make it available I should add some code to my :depends-on list 14:22:54 What is a depends-on list? 14:23:16 it's a parameter for a system definition 14:26:06 I don't understand, can I put it in .sbclrc? 14:26:20 no 14:27:24 Somelauw: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 14:28:45 Also should (require 'iterate) work? 14:29:03 I will read that link later. Thanks. 14:29:40 Somelauw: it should 14:30:31 you can add (require 'iterate) to your .sbclrc if you want it always loaded 14:30:59 that's what I do with some code/functions that I always use 14:31:14 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 14:31:14 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 14:31:39 i save an image with third party packages i always use and don't need to modify 14:32:25 stassats: that's what i did with my latest sbcl, I made an image with iterate already there; though I had still to add use-package to .sbclrc 14:36:16 Dang, I got highlighted in here earlier and got excited that one of the greats from #lisp wanted to talk to me. 14:36:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:38 Quadrescence: Sure I'll talk to ya. 14:37:17 schmrkc: do you have the greatness certificate? 14:37:25 no :( 14:37:31 haha 14:38:58 Quadrescence: who would that be? 14:39:20 the elders 14:39:31 white bearded 14:39:34 you became famous since you purchased that rotten pdf scan 14:39:45 you're all over the news 14:40:03 hah 14:40:14 yeah, the elders 14:40:38 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:01 who is the greatest lisper that ever lived ? 14:41:29 Brucio 14:42:15 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-147-142.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:05 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:29 francogrex: hey I don't want to become famous for that! 14:44:07 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 Quadrescence: too late :ą 14:44:53 ASau [~user@95-27-147-142.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:47:50 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:59 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:49:06 -!- wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:02 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:25 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@164.22.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:25 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:17 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:43 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 15:01:30 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0BA32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:34 -!- benny [~benny@i577A18AA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:02:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 15:09:11 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C7D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:37 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 15:16:27 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:27 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:43 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 15:21:20 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:22:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:23 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:24:28 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 15:26:37 benny [~benny@i577A1BFE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:29:39 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:47 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:15 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:41:27 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.117.132.191] has joined #lisp 15:44:27 If you were to release something like an 80% series around this time of the year, how would you name it? I'm thinking canes (: 15:46:00 pkhuong: Nice. Github away! ;) 15:46:13 pkhuong: name it "badonkadonk" 15:46:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:48:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:33 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:50:58 urandom__ [~user@p548A71ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 Quadrescence: You have no idea how long many times I fell off the chair laughing at badonkadonk 15:51:30 uh 15:51:35 s/long// 15:52:25 ;) 15:52:28 haha 15:52:34 Well it's a good library name 15:52:50 is it? 15:53:12 yes, it is 15:53:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:29 merry christmas pkhuong! 15:53:34 Quadrescence: Later I realised that they're all fake, but oh well. 15:53:35 Quadrescence: only if you want to get famous again 15:53:53 CL-onkadonk 15:55:47 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:43 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 16:01:54 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:54 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:15 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 16:06:00 Okay, I installed iterate using (ql:quickload "iterate") 16:06:15 Then I typed (require "iterate") in sbcl 16:06:21 No errors so far 16:06:45 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06:48 But when I do (iter (for i from 1 to 10)(collect i)) 16:06:57 It says it doesn't recognize iter. 16:07:35 that's because iter resides in its own package 16:07:54 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 16:07:58 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:09:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:31 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:11 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:34 (iterate (for el in '(1 2 3)) (when (> el 3) (collect el))) 16:11:45 Doesn't work either. 16:12:08 do you know Common Lisp? 16:12:21 i mean, have used it before? 16:12:45 Yes, but I have never installed packages. 16:12:50 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:50 because i'd suggest you reading something like Practical Common Lisp to understand what "packages" mean 16:12:57 Then I typed (require "iterate") in sbcl 16:12:59 I can write a function that sums numbers and such. 16:13:02 Does require work with strings? 16:13:13 A PACKAGE SHOULD BE CALLED A NAMESPACE 16:13:14 I thought that would be (require 'iterate) 16:13:27 qfr: sure it does 16:13:34 dumb CL designers making things confusing i mean they must have been braindead!! 16:13:58 qfr: yes, it should be a symbol. 16:13:59 Quadrescence: dumb languages that came after it, confusing everything 16:14:06 But then it still doesn't work. 16:14:11 Somelauw: no, it shouldn't be a symbol 16:14:21 stassats: hehe, I hope you know I am kidding. 16:15:14 Quadrescence: it's harder to see when you're not kidding 16:15:35 Somelauw: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html 16:15:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:18 story time: I was in ##C a year or few ago, and someone was talking about how SpiderMonkey (JS implementation) or something related was incredibly smart because they used the novel method of letting the first three bits of an integer represent the datatype, and if the first two bits are 0, then the third+rest represent an integer literal. 16:18:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:37 Anyway thought I might let you know how programmers are developing in the world. 16:18:46 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:18:54 in isolation? 16:19:18 ;) 16:20:14 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:56 not only programmers, whenever you think that something is true, you're most probably mistaken (including this sentence) 16:23:57 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:28:16 Okay, after a little reading and messing, I think I understand it. 16:28:38 When you require something, it creates a namespace. 16:28:45 no... 16:29:16 And I can use it. (I was worried that I did something wrong when installing) 16:30:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-189-116.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:28 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:35:39 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:35 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-136-54-252.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.117.132.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:08 Anson [~Anson@123.120.67.52] has joined #lisp 16:40:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.117.132.191] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 -!- jsoft_ is now known as jsoft 16:41:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:41:47 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-132-122-98.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:52 -!- Anson [~Anson@123.120.67.52] has quit [] 16:44:35 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-5-180.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:48:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:48:27 -!- bobzhangatthu [~user@th206127.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:49:52 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:51:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-5-180.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:52:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.117.132.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:40 boo, no minion 16:54:12 it was removed for a reason? 16:54:35 no idea; I wanted to leave a msg for Xach 16:54:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has joined #lisp 16:54:54 I think nyef was looking after it for a spell and he's been busy elsewhere of late. 16:54:59 drdo: let me know if there's improvements you'd like to see in nibbles 16:56:12 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 stassats, if you just "think" a thing is true, then you've withheld belief to some extent 16:57:32 bsod1 [~osa1@88.241.168.240] has joined #lisp 17:02:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:10:42 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:08 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BA32.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:36 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:31 az [~az@p4FE4EDB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:33 bobzhangatthu [~user@th206127.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 17:22:16 -!- Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:23:20 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 17:24:34 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 17:28:27 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:35 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 17:31:01 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:31:01 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 17:34:08 dimas [~dimas@178.168.202.112] has joined #lisp 17:34:26 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:49 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B53FBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:02 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B53FBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:36:09 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 17:44:39 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@88.241.168.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:35 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:47:38 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:25 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:52 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BA32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:23 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:48 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:59 hugbunny [~hugbunny@bzq-79-177-39-135.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:50 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 17:57:59 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:00:59 bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.151] has joined #lisp 18:04:05 codepunk [codepunk@187.91.189.94] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:06:06 -!- hugbunny [~hugbunny@bzq-79-177-39-135.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 18:07:29 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 18:10:35 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-24-125-115-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:16:44 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3264CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:57 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:54 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082967D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:21:45 rfg [~rfg@82.132.136.173] has joined #lisp 18:22:38 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 18:29:03 davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.151] has joined #lisp 18:34:34 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:49 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:39:14 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:39:36 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 18:39:59 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:41:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:29 froydnj: What's the reason for nibbles only supporting those fixed sizes? 18:42:23 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:42:44 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:12 drdo: efficiency, mostly, and that I personally don't have need to support, say, 128-bit types 18:43:33 or 56-bit types, or whatever 18:43:55 96 18:44:00 or 80 18:44:07 Well, just asking because when i needed to read be integers i just wrote something that supports any size in 4 lines 18:44:10 i never heard of 56 bit types though 18:44:49 I guess it can be optimized or something, but not that it really matters, it'll mostly be IO bound 18:48:30 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C6AF7B4D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 18:48:30 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 18:50:00 {s,u}b-n-octets and friends would not be hard to add if you wanted; I would accept a patch or pull request doing so 18:50:46 I think the right way to do it would be having only that one 18:50:54 With compiler macros optimizing those common ones 18:55:33 I think that would be possible; I think the common ones are common enough to deserve their own functions, though 18:55:33 -!- dimas [~dimas@178.168.202.112] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:14 compiler macros suck 18:57:31 they can't work on derived or declared types 18:57:49 IIRC the implementation is also permitted to ignore them 18:58:26 something like sbcl's deftransforms would be better 18:59:32 mheld [~mheld@c-24-91-23-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:30 jay eee ess you ess, jay ee ess you ess 19:04:40 jay eee ess you ess 19:04:45 and jesus was his name 19:04:50 stop this 19:05:00 oops, sorry 19:05:00 stassats: can't you extract that from the &environment arg ? 19:05:02 wrong channel! 19:05:13 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has left #lisp 19:05:16 fe[nl]ix: how? 19:06:30 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:08:51 stassats: some sbcl-specific code ? 19:09:12 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:27 if it's sbcl-specific, i'd better just use deftransform 19:11:26 cltl2:variable-information is more portable 19:12:01 although not all implementations treat declarations as assertions 19:14:09 stassats: if you write it as a compiler-macro and extract the type info form the environment it will be easier to port it to other implementations 19:15:22 dimas [~dimas@254-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by] has joined #lisp 19:16:34 -!- bobzhangatthu [~user@th206127.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:16:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:18 mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:59 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-24-91-23-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 19:29:50 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:30:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-6-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:32:09 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:44 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:42 scratch [1000@64-5-70-196.longlines.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:59 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:46 -!- rfg [~rfg@82.132.136.173] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:39:03 Hey. For an exercise I'm trying to write an infix-to-postfix converter that takes a list '(1 + 2) as input. How can I determine if an element is a number or an operand? (member '(+ / - *)) isn't working as I expected. 19:39:13 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 19:39:22 -!- _icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5DA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: shutdown -h now] 19:39:32 numberp? 19:39:51 fboundp? 19:40:13 in what way is (member ...) not working as you expected? 19:40:35 didn get me my nummer 19:41:25 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 19:41:39 I'm looking at numberp + fboundp now... Krystof: (member + '(+ - / *)) returns NIL. 19:41:55 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:02 no wonder, + is a variable 19:42:30 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 19:42:38 Well, I wondered if that might be the problem. I'm still learning. 19:42:44 scratch: you need to check for the symbol's presence in the set: (member '+ ..) (: 19:43:42 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:44:52 antifuchs: If '+ gives me the symbol which represents a variable, can I work backwards with + to get the symbol? Is that a reasonable thing to do in Lisp? 19:45:32 you can get a value from a globally-bound symbol via symbol-value 19:46:00 but I don't see how that's relevant to your problem above (: 19:49:30 scratch: your question is meaningless. + is symbol. '+ is a list that contains two symbols: the symbol QUOTE, and the symbol +. When you evaluate that list, you get indeed the symbol +. 19:50:40 antifuchs: Hmm, neither do I. :) I'll keep poking away. sea4ever + stassats: The numberp / fboundp recommendations were right on the mark. No wonder googling "Lisp isDigit" wasn't coming up with anything. Thanks for the help, everyone. 19:57:54 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:30 sohail [~Adium@CPE001bfc8b793b-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:31 -!- sohail [~Adium@CPE001bfc8b793b-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:58:31 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 pjb: '+ is a list?! *mindblown* 19:59:45 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:04 if I wanted to make a ragged array, can I use make-array for this? I can't figure out a way to create a new element instead of sharing the copies for initial-element 20:00:07 lispm [~lispm@g224120123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:11 basically, an array of arrays 20:01:11 ragged? 20:01:39 scratch, pjb: As it's being read it might be a list but you sure can't (car '+) ;) 20:02:19 (car (read-from-string "'+")) => QUOTE 20:02:35 (car ''+) => QUOTE 20:02:59 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:05 stassats: Yeah, that makes sense. Perhaps I should have been following the earlier conversation more... 20:03:08 stassats: I just want to create an array with adjustable arrays in each element without having to manually loop 20:04:04 manual loop is a bad thing? 20:04:43 it sounds like something I shouldn't have to do 20:06:08 freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-133-174.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:06:09 -!- retrry_ [~quassel@78-57-31-112.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:06:25 stassats: I'm porting some C++ code which used copy constructors to do this 20:06:42 lisp ain't c++ 20:06:49 retrry [~quassel@78-57-31-112.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 20:07:03 really 20:07:09 that would explain all the errors about {} 20:07:16 stassats are you certain of this? 20:07:32 I thought C++ was a dialect of Lisp 20:07:48 Could I have been so wrong, all these years? 20:08:05 *stassats* sighs 20:08:54 I"m just saying that it makes code more readable so would be nice if there was, I dunno, an :initial-element-function 20:09:04 or some equivalent 20:09:11 is (map-into (make-array 10) (lambda () (make-array 10 :adjustable t))) enough? 20:09:55 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:56 I don't know, I'll have to unparse it first :) 20:10:07 it's in lisp, not in c++ 20:12:35 looks like it will do 20:12:40 thanks stassats 20:13:59 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:10 stassats: sick! (eval `(,(car (cdr ''+)) 1 2)) 20:25:21 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.66.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:25:43 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.66.166] has joined #lisp 20:26:01 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 SYSTEM_ARMED [~null@ppp-70-128-97-168.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:20 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:06 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:36:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-15-1.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:18 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:23 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:07 antoni [~user@11.Red-79-158-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:24 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:25 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:53 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:45:02 happy xmas 20:45:06 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:54 You just ruined the channel 20:52:07 paul0 [~paulogeye@189.26.136.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:52:36 my lisp program has an error, but it doesn't says in which line 20:53:23 if you use slime, it'll fly you to that line 20:53:57 stassats why is it that CCL and SBCL don't do it on their own though? 20:54:08 Emacs/Slime, the only way to fly 20:54:23 qfr: how can they, they've no text editor 20:54:36 They compile code 20:54:51 gcc can do it, too, and it's not a text editor either 20:55:29 it flies you to the erroneous line? i haven't seen that 20:55:39 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@59.161.140.234] has joined #lisp 20:55:39 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@59.161.140.234] has quit [Changing host] 20:55:39 manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has joined #lisp 20:55:48 -!- antoni [~user@11.Red-79-158-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:55:59 I think he means it prints a number, so you can walk 20:56:02 Yeah 20:56:14 but why walk when you can fly 20:56:37 so, they're people who don't use slime? 20:58:00 lines in lisp are meaningless, forms are, and it's hard to point out the form so that you can walk to it 20:58:19 It's important to fix code 20:58:51 well, it could at least say which function has the error 20:58:56 qfr: it is, that's why you should recruit computer for that task 20:58:58 Most compilers provide this information, even when it's in a "fly there" environment 20:59:34 I don't see any point in concealing this information in CL compilers 20:59:44 paul0: it does tell you, it prints a backtrace 20:59:58 qfr: when you enter a form in the repl, which line is it and in what file? 21:00:21 http://pastebin.com/BTejt2z8 21:00:30 araujo_ [~araujo@190.38.49.178] has joined #lisp 21:00:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:00:36 how should i read this, to find the error? 21:00:40 -!- araujo_ [~araujo@190.38.49.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:42 Surely you could store some debugging information to achieve that 21:00:52 paul0: type :bt 21:01:11 qfr: when you compile a file, the compiler generally retains source information 21:01:15 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 ok 21:01:55 this is really WEIRD 21:02:15 perhaps i'm not seeing any function name because of lambdas (anonymous functions), right? 21:04:36 if you want to have a productive debugging environment, use sbcl with slime 21:04:58 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:24 adeht I was just wondering if emacs could be a suitable replacement for the default Windows console, haha 21:05:32 Would save me some work :p 21:05:56 qfr: there's shell/eshell/terminal/etc. 21:05:56 it has M-x term and M-x eshell 21:06:35 Hmm M-x term not working for me 21:06:50 eshell worked 21:08:07 eshell is a portable shell.. I heard a lot of good about it, but didn't learn it 21:08:57 there is also M-x terminal-emulator, which allegedly doesn't contain any pornography 21:09:27 Unluckily eshell doesn't appear to work with irb/python etc hmm 21:10:05 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.151.203] has joined #lisp 21:10:11 qfr: you should use the respective modes 21:10:17 there's M-x run-python 21:10:59 It appears to use stdin/stdout/stderr redirection so when I print "a" to stdout and then "b" to stderr 21:11:05 It will print ba in the shell :( 21:11:40 qfr: discuss general Emacs problems in #emacs 21:11:45 Right 21:12:17 Anyways, in general it appears to suffer from the same problems as my own attempt at a replacement for cmd.exe 21:12:22 Unluckily 21:15:41 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A71ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:09 -!- dimas [~dimas@254-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:24 qfr: i guess you can replace cmd.exe by installing linux 21:18:15 I run Linux on the router, the servers, my notebook and in a VM on top of Windows 21:18:31 But I still depend on Windows for new games and making music 21:18:49 you could write new games in CL for linux! 21:19:03 I wouldn't target any OS in particular :o 21:19:12 or you could run windows inside linux 21:19:32 ehu: that won't work for games or low latency audio stuff 21:20:00 you could use Paracletus! 21:20:02 WINE. 21:20:18 I mean, Linux supports Windows apis 21:20:24 adeht lol 21:20:51 ehu: most new games require 6-18 months of patches until they work 21:21:15 Most new DirectX FPS don't run well with wine 21:21:26 I mean patches in the wine project 21:21:32 It's a lot of work 21:21:44 and you shouldn't really be playing games, but write software in CL instead 21:21:49 -!- zenlunatic [~bradley@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:54 And even then the performance is significantly worse even when you're running it natively 21:22:18 ehu: I'm not sure if you can run that in a VM at all, if it's possible the performance would be even worse again 21:22:43 paravirtualization: Xen. 21:23:18 -!- manugupt1 [~manugupt1@opensuse/member/manugupt1] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:24:07 Apparently VirtualBox has a DirectX capable driver, interesting 21:24:10 For Windows 21:24:53 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:28:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-86.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:29 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:29:42 unkanon [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:29:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:07 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:52 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-245.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:31:15 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224120123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:35:00 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:35:55 -!- SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:21 amb007 [~a_bakic@76.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:37:25 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 21:38:15 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:44:24 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@189.26.136.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 21:45:39 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:45:45 no FAQ for this channel? 21:47:07 here it is: A.1 Read "Practical Common Lisp". A.2 Read CLHS. A.3 You shouldn't want this. 21:48:01 no recommendations for Land of Lisp? 21:49:02 I have land of lisp in my Kindle, waiting to be read. 21:49:42 I was just reading about genetic algorithms ... fascinating. thought that Lisp may be a better fit for it. 21:52:27 better than what? 21:53:32 python, for instance? doesn't eval/macros help at all? 21:53:41 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:58 oh, I wasn't disputing your assertion 21:54:03 just trying to understand better 21:54:19 you see, I was palying with neural networks and G.A.s too (to evolve the NNs) 21:54:23 I was using Haskell for that 21:54:41 and I got a bit upset at how hard simple things are in Haskell (mutation0 21:54:45 (mutation)* 21:54:49 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:55:15 so I may give Lisp a try, it might be a good compromise between the beauty of functional programming with uhm... mutation :P 21:55:28 but you shouldn't need macros for GA 21:56:45 I see. I am just beginning to read in depth about GA. 21:58:31 antoni [~user@11.Red-79-158-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:45 may I ask what tutorial you're using? 21:59:06 it's notably hard to find good tutorials for NNs, but maybe there're some good ones for GAs I'm not aware of 22:00:36 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@85.100.79.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:00 Koza? 22:01:56 oh, he talks about genetic programming, not algorithms 22:02:43 unkanon: I am reading the chapter dealing with GA in the book 'Programming Collective Intelligence' (via oreilly safari online), http://goo.gl/OyqNf 22:03:28 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:47 srid: cool, never heard of that book. thanks. 22:05:12 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:06:11 -!- astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:11 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:11:45 astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:12:46 astoon__ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:13:12 -!- astoon__ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:12 -!- astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:46 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:05 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:15:18 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-64-144.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:16:37 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:17 Hm, any other goldmines of CL code aside from CLiki and some CMU stuff? 22:24:45 keyboard 22:25:11 stassats: slow crackly fingers coming from painful hands aren't a goldmine :( 22:28:47 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 22:29:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:30:50 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:30:54 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.151.203] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:31:34 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:41:47 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:20 mheld [~mheld@c-24-91-23-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:33 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:47:39 ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:59 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:51:59 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@164.22.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:54:49 -!- antoni [~user@11.Red-79-158-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:57:41 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:17 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 22:59:30 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 22:59:30 petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 23:00:15 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:00:51 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:49 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 23:04:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:14 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 23:08:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:13:33 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.210.156.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:14:28 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@192.82-246-213.ippool.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:43 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:16:08 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:16:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has joined #lisp 23:19:47 building sbcl 1.0.45 on 2 PC (windows OS, using msys and sbcl-1.0.42) sb-posix got build successfully on one (the newest with XP-SP-2) but fails on the older (XP-SP1) with: "package "SB-POSIX" not found". Is this something already known? 23:21:52 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:22:21 the *features* in both are the same 23:22:35 Am I taking the wrong approach if I am wanting to return from a function? 23:22:41 like I would in c? 23:23:18 jsoft_ hmm yeah I think that's not very Lispy 23:23:49 I think the normal approach would be to use if/cond theer 23:23:51 there* 23:23:58 but what do I know, I'm a noob 23:25:19 francogrex: did you (require :sb-posix)? 23:25:42 jsoft_: it's perfectly normal to return-from a function... just, as with every other cl construct, don't overuse it 23:26:48 Does Scheme have that btw? 23:26:58 Or would Scheme people frown upon that? 23:26:58 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:27:26 Bronsa [~bronsa@host244-176-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:27:45 Hmm, thanks antifuchs 23:27:58 no idea, honestly (: 23:28:10 they might, if they want you to program in a functional style 23:28:21 but then, you're the one doing the programming, so they can frown all they want 23:28:26 they might even scowl! (: 23:28:54 antifuchs: now i did. ok 23:32:17 DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:32:17 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:32:17 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 23:35:00 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:21 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EDB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:38:46 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:14 setf is essential non-FP, too, right? 23:39:19 essentially* 23:39:29 Because it deals with state? 23:39:50 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:56 yes 23:40:11 in general there's very little attention to fp mindset in common lisp 23:40:28 Hmm Haskell has no equivalent of setf, does it? 23:40:49 Or setq for that matter 23:41:05 IIRC no return-from either 23:41:53 haskell doesn't share much common with cl 23:41:59 except being relatively obscure 23:42:20 I find CL much easier than Haskell 23:42:27 most people do 23:42:43 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host109-153-49-237.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:42:45 as you don't need a bachelors in math to get started 23:42:48 I still don't know how to translate arbitrary C++ code to Haskell really, due to the absence of "imperative" stuff like setf 23:43:11 you can't translate it 23:43:16 you have to write it from scratch 23:44:15 That's what I mean by translation :) I never implied that this translation would be automatic 23:44:38 Although you could probably write a C++ to CL converter which can deal with some programs at least :P 23:44:59 c++ is a bad started point, as the language is such a pita 23:45:09 for any kind of automatic translation 23:45:18 Yeah it's brutal to parse 23:45:19 you can pick plain C though 23:45:37 Memory manipulation would be problematic 23:45:43 and it is relatively straightforward to translate it to cl, pascal, quickbasic or something equivalent 23:45:50 but not to haskell 23:46:02 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.151.203] has joined #lisp 23:46:26 How do you convert *(unsigned *)0x401007 = 4234; to CL? :) 23:46:42 it depends 23:46:56 some cl implementations might allow you to mmap() 23:46:57 davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:57 Doesn't that require some compiler specific hackery? 23:47:00 Wow 23:47:16 or, if you don't do it for any side effect 23:47:25 i.e. not for platform-specific i/o 23:47:29 qfr: in SBCL, you allocate a SAP and set its value to that 23:47:33 you just can fake it with array and a couple of macros 23:48:00 (a SAP is a boxed pointer to any memory location) 23:49:03 qfr, what i meant though, is that algorithmic translation would be trivial 23:49:23 loops, assignments, control structures 23:49:42 less so if you try to convert your program to haskell 23:49:43 Anyways, I still wouldn't know how to deal with assignments in Haskell 23:49:45 automatically or not 23:49:56 you have to rewrite it from scratch more or less 23:50:13 I don't know how to rewrite it 23:50:45 qfr: some implementations' FFIs will let you do that pointer thing you asked about above 23:50:45 with CL it's straight forward, I can cheat my way out of everything with setf and such 23:51:04 you have to learn haskell, then it would become obvious 23:51:05 No need for purely functional hackery 23:51:31 prove a handful of theorems to type checker, throw in a few monads, and voila 23:51:34 *cough* 23:51:40 Haskell has a different metaphor for computing 23:51:51 taking integers and making addresses you can dereference out of them is what gets you admitted into unix language club (: 23:52:22 antifuchs: no, it's just part of the "C was a portable assembler" bit :D 23:52:52 well guess what unix language club is all about (: 23:53:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:54:00 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:55:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:55:58 DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:55:58 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:55:58 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 23:56:30 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:57:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:56 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.79.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]