00:00:10 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 00:00:31 adeht: the 1.2 version of the protocol actually lets you give binary arguments to all commands: http://redis.io/topics/protocol 00:00:48 I have no idea if that translates to actual binary safety in the whole system, but it should in theory be possible 00:01:00 (all commands except SORT, that is, but I don't care about SORT) 00:01:55 antifuchs: yes, that is what I use 00:02:23 adeht: are you the author of cl-redis? (: 00:02:41 antifuchs: no, lredis: http://github.com/death/lredis 00:02:45 oh 00:02:49 cool, I should check that out 00:03:47 looks neat, I think I should use that (: 00:04:16 cool 00:05:23 agh, lredis isn't in ql yet (: 00:05:30 *antifuchs* makes a note to file a ticket about that 00:05:39 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:05:45 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas2-montreal42-3096486625.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:08 -!- escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:07:48 hah, drop-in replacement (: 00:08:16 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:44 heh 00:09:30 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 00:11:49 escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 00:11:54 seriously, this is way better (: 00:11:55 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 00:12:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:12:44 glad it works for you 00:14:13 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.204] has joined #lisp 00:15:50 -!- mejja [~chatzilla@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 00:16:17 -!- escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:17:15 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:17:49 antifuchs: note that if the function expects a response you can tell it to skip string conversion by passing :octets t 00:18:06 ah, that's cool 00:18:40 returning strings is good for debugability right now - I'll keep that in mind for later, though (: 00:18:46 (and I'm handling strings, just non-ascii ones) 00:18:54 -!- baoist [~baoist@c-98-240-174-169.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:19:15 antifuchs: there's also some lispy "key" notation support.. e.g., you can use `(persons ,name id) when name is a string 00:19:51 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:14 antifuchs: and it'll translate to "PERSONS::ID" 00:20:27 nice! 00:21:43 escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 00:22:21 hey. does anyone know about a pure CL implementation for creating/extracting .tar.gz archives? 00:22:44 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 00:23:09 dto: https://github.com/froydnj check chipz 00:23:13 and archive 00:23:22 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 00:23:35 are those in quicklisp? 00:23:42 i think xach uses something 00:23:46 in quicklisp itself 00:24:02 dto: I think xach uses froydnj code 00:25:57 -!- tmh [6c491b13@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:26:02 adeht: yes, they're both in ql! 00:26:08 adeht: fabulous, thanks. 00:26:10 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.148.152] has joined #lisp 00:26:32 Beetny [~Beetny@203.202.52.112] has joined #lisp 00:28:29 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.148.152] has quit [Client Quit] 00:28:51 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@203.202.52.112] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:20 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:15 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:01 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 00:33:49 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:36 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:35:42 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:36:20 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:00 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:39:00 -!- escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:39:52 -!- Blkt [~user@93-45-213-247.ip104.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:40:02 -!- entropix [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:40:54 caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:16 -!- caoliver [~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 00:43:22 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:50 -!- sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:48:28 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-30-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:54 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 00:49:24 sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has joined #lisp 00:51:50 lredis talk made me recall http://paste.lisp.org/display/95670 00:52:01 vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:15 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:53:43 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:05 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 00:54:07 nibbles! 00:54:19 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 00:54:20 If only i had known that exists 00:54:34 Wouldn't have had to roll my own 00:54:52 drdo: talking about my mpd stats hack? 00:55:18 https://github.com/froydnj/nibbles 00:55:21 talking about this 00:55:23 oh 00:55:46 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 00:58:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:35 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 01:03:10 -!- pinkwerks [2679e0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.224.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:04:30 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-229-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:10:22 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-209-125.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:31 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-142-170.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:29 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:26:26 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:27:31 pnq [~nick@ACA36943.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:30:26 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 01:31:59 is there any way I can pass umlauts (encoded in a certain external format) to programs via run-program in sbcl? 01:32:03 it expects :ascii; setting :external-format on run-program has no effect, as does binding sb-alien:*default-c-string-external-format* 01:32:49 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:33:39 antifuchs: iso-8859-1 and pretend characters are bytes? 01:33:44 pkhuong: :us-ascii 01:33:54 but it seems like it's sb-impl::*default-external-format* that does the trick 01:35:30 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:36:53 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-167-55.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:05 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:24 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:28 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:39 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:14 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:47:09 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:48:42 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 01:49:45 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.204] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:51:05 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:51:05 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:30 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:56:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 02:01:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:06 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:54 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 02:19:31 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-71-131-133-80.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:33 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20:05 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.145] has joined #lisp 02:20:29 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 02:24:01 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:44 abm [~chatzilla@ip68-227-28-42.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:20 tmh [6c491b13@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 02:31:30 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:45 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:46 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:10 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:28 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:35 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:11 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 02:40:04 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:41:46 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:00 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 02:45:11 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:45:33 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 02:48:05 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:22 -!- abm [~chatzilla@ip68-227-28-42.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206122310]] 02:55:26 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:50 incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:06 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:56:45 -!- incandenza_ is now known as incandenza 02:57:43 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:58:38 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-229-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:59:07 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-229-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:46 Alfa|WERK [~AlfaWolph@c-75-66-60-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:06 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:05 On CCL, (TRUENAME #P"") => [directory that was current when Common Lisp was started] 03:03:35 In LispWorks, (TRUENAME #P"") => #P"C:/Windows/system32/" 03:04:19 So, the truename of the empty path is implementation specific. But, why is it valid at all? 03:04:26 cr0sis [~cr0sis@dsl-sp-81-140-21-243.in-addr.broadbandscope.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:34 -!- cr0sis [~cr0sis@dsl-sp-81-140-21-243.in-addr.broadbandscope.com] has left #lisp 03:05:10 tmh: ISTR it's NIL translating to :unspecific 03:05:29 that's NIL in pathname components. or maybe that was up to the implementation 03:06:08 dulouz [~dulouz@2002:d8fe:77db:0:211:2fff:fec3:eeea] has joined #lisp 03:06:51 Okay, that sort of makes sense. I think I would rather get an error, but I've found that when my expectations don't meet the behavior of CL, the CL version usually ends up having a good reason. 03:07:36 with pathnames that doesn't often tend to be true 03:08:50 I need to ruminate on this some more. I think a beer and college basketball on TV will help. :-) 03:09:06 have fun (: 03:09:24 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:11:20 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:14:13 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:09 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:24:09 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:24:09 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 03:25:10 In LOOP, is the BY clause in a FOR evaluated for each iteration or only once? 03:25:30 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:25:54 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:42 eh, it's only once 03:26:54 Is there any way to have it evaluated each iteration? 03:27:47 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:48 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:29:20 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:29:58 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:15 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:32:18 DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:32:18 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@60-242-109-62.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:32:18 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 03:34:25 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:46 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:49 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:39 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 03:41:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:46:13 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:48:34 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 03:51:09 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:16 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:51:30 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 03:51:33 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:40 jimmybean [ada9ef02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.169.239.2] has joined #lisp 04:00:33 csmax [~max@p5DE8F408.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:34 happy holidays #lisp 04:01:38 i'm having a little bit of trouble with a small piece of code, if anyone has some cycles to spare 04:03:53 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:07 -!- csmax_ [~max@p5DE8E905.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:04:11 jimmybean: Show it 04:05:46 ok 04:05:56 http://paste.lisp.org/+2J1E 04:06:00 jimmybean: also, don't ask to ask 04:06:22 What's the problem with the code? 04:06:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:06:39 roger, thanks. for reference I am trying to answer problem 10 of the 99 lisp questions 04:06:55 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB0B91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:56 can i have a link to the problem description? 04:07:18 when the code runs with the example line at the bottom, it gives (2 4 1 1 9 1 (D)) 04:07:19 sure 04:07:30 http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html 04:07:33 problem 10 04:08:28 i've had problems with using the list command in my recursive functions, it likes to make lists inside of lists etc. I think I don't understand the way it works 04:09:08 why does it have to be recursive? 04:10:03 It doesn't. I want it to be so I learn something new (1) and (2) I don't know common lisp looping very well, and so far i've been able to give recursive solutions 04:10:11 jimmybean: what lisp are you using? 04:10:19 one sec 04:10:34 tmh: (truename #P"") #P is specified to be equivalent to #.(parse-namestring "") therefore the *default-pathname-defaults* merging must be done at read time. 04:11:01 clozure, a week old checkout 04:11:31 common lisp then 04:11:49 I'm not saying I have the right answer, but pack-a2 gives me the right numbers, I just don't know why p10 doesn't make a new list each time its called 04:11:56 mitre: yes sorry, common lisp 04:12:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 04:12:35 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:12 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:18 jimmybean: did you solve number 9? 04:13:24 mitre: yes 04:13:55 mitre: i've solved them all up to 10 so far 04:15:12 (mapcar (lambda (list) (list (length list) (car list))) (p09-output)) 04:15:15 mitre: so I did the same sort of thing with 09, in that I run the whole list through two functions on the top level. 04:15:19 jimmybean: fwiw, http://paste.lisp.org/display/117986#1 is how i'd write it 04:16:31 mitre: The reason I needed to change the top level of p10 is that I need to run a function that gives me a count of the items and then return that number, and a higher level function (probably) needs to return a list with the result of the count and the current element 04:17:23 stassats: thank you very much for the loop example, I'll try out an approach with it! 04:17:47 jimmybean: are you reading Practical Common Lisp? 04:18:26 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 04:18:47 stassats: yes, I haven't gotten far, but just passed the point where the different function argument types are enumerated. I understand that pcl has a good chapter on demystifying loop, right? 04:19:21 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:19:34 jimmybean: that's right, so i suggest you to read those chapters beforehand 04:19:38 TraumaPrincess [~TraumaPon@124-148-49-251.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:19:49 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 04:20:20 stassats: love the use of shiftf there 04:21:39 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:21:41 i didn't like to use it, but i figured it'd look better than "and (setf count 1)" 04:21:47 -!- TraumaPrincess [~TraumaPon@124-148-49-251.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 04:22:25 mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:04 i'm still unsure that using shiftf like this is more clear 04:23:06 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 04:23:50 mitre: does my code look sane? 04:24:39 jimmybean: if I say no, will you stop coding? 04:25:25 mitre: lol no. 04:25:29 jimmybean: I think it's painfully sane, but you' 04:25:40 you're in good company here 04:26:18 mitre: I know someone elses recursion can be hard to wrap your head around, or at least it is for me coming into lisp, but 04:28:01 thank yous for your help 04:28:22 jimmybean: PCL, Gentle Intro, CLHS 04:29:19 recursion isn't the easiest thing when it comes to iteration 04:30:56 i if i were to write this function as a recursive, i wouldn't use any helper functions, because it's not easy to compose them 04:31:13 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:31:28 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:43 without doing the same thing twice, that is 04:33:04 because you have two almost identical functions 04:33:30 pjb: Thanks for the info. I need to think about how that impacts what I'm trying to do. 04:34:12 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-219-19.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 04:34:49 jimmybean: modify ((null (cdr list)) list) in pack-a2 to ((null (cdr list)) 1) 04:35:10 pjb: In both CCL and LispWorks, *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS* is also #P"" 04:35:33 stassats: yes I am iritated that I have nearly 2 identical functions. For simpler recursions i pass an optional variable to hold my state, but for things like this where each loop needs to do different things, I don't have what it takes yet to remove this duplication without a loop structure 04:35:58 I think I'm going to have to read Chapter 19 of the hyperspec entirely, not just sections. 04:36:26 jimmybean: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117986#2 04:36:39 or better have it look that way 04:38:26 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:38:31 MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has joined #lisp 04:39:15 stassats: I see. Copying old code that would work, I couldn't yet see how that section could be refined. 04:39:43 Could someone take a look at the error in the first annotation here? http://paste.lisp.org/display/117991 04:40:06 I don't understand the issue. The error occurs when I call (new-game). I included all relevant code in the paste. 04:41:28 osoleve: You have a 2D array and are using AREF with only 1 subscript 04:42:31 drdo: In place-boat? I thought I had both subscripts in the cond 04:43:11 It doesn't work like you think it does 04:43:19 (+ (x-coord pos) (* (if (< pos 50) 1 -1) offset)) 04:43:24 This does nothing 04:44:07 oh? dang. what am i doing wrong? 04:44:29 (fun (progn 1 2)) 04:44:46 This isn't equivalent to (fun 1 2), it's equivalent to (fun 2) 04:44:58 ohhh 04:45:00 That's your problem in the cond 04:45:02 osoleve: you're misusing cond 04:45:31 it's not like each clause is an IF 04:46:06 stassats: The problem is that he has 2 expressions in the implicit progn 04:46:22 and he was thinking aref would get called with the results of those 2 04:46:38 drdo: the problem is that osoleve thinks it's like two IFs 04:46:55 stassats: what is that supposed to mean? 04:46:58 osoleve: so you need (aref *ans-board* (if (= dir 0) x y) (if (= dir 1) x y)) 04:47:04 drdo: this 04:47:22 stassats: with all due respect, drdo has my problem correct 04:47:23 That doesn't mean he thinks it's 2 if's 04:48:11 isn't what i said correct? 04:48:26 how do I kill a paren in paredit? 04:48:43 no, what i want to do is call BOTH x and y, not either 04:48:49 sunnyps [~sunnyps@36.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 04:48:49 ok, maybe you don't think that it's like two IFs, but two IFs is one of the solutions 04:48:58 stassats: The solution you proposed is correct 04:49:03 But that was not the confusion he had 04:49:37 i see what you're saying, though, stassats, and i'll try to implement it 04:50:19 the other is (multiple-value-call #'aref (cond ((= dir 0) (values x y) ((= dir 1) (values x y))))) 04:50:49 stassats: I was going to say that, but it's not possible 04:50:53 He's using SETF 04:51:10 right 04:51:22 (apply #'aref (cond ((= dir 0) (list x y) ((= dir 1) (list x y))))) 04:52:45 -!- tmh [6c491b13@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:53:14 wow, setf is defined for apply? 04:53:47 (setf (row-major-aref array (cond ((= dir 0) (array-row-major-index array x y) ((= dir 1) (array-row-major-index array y x)))))) 04:54:10 drdo: sure 04:54:22 for aref and friends, at least 04:54:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 04:55:02 why not for multiple-value-call too then? 04:55:49 tmh [63972ac4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 04:56:11 Weird network issues with my router. 04:56:42 i like the row-major-aref solution 04:56:50 it doesn't cons! 04:57:22 I don't like any solution, they are all pretty awkward 04:58:08 But yes, i think that's the best one considering the possibilities 04:59:49 too bad there's no column-major-aref 05:00:43 You could write one. 05:01:21 jimmybean: my take on run-length http://paste.lisp.org/display/117986#3 05:02:26 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 05:03:50 woo! i got it working. I used stassats' if solution, and then had to modify x-coord so that it rounded 05:04:09 tomorrow's assignment will be to modify it so that the boats don't intersect or overlap 05:04:22 thanks for your help, guys 05:05:32 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld_] 05:07:14 mitre: wow. If i think I read the flow right, you have done what I wanted to do. Although, I see how crazy it is to read, you really gotta sit there for a second to let it steep 05:08:02 mitre: however, thank you! This style was what I was looking for! 05:08:22 np 05:10:34 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 05:11:13 Is there a function combining MEMBER and POSITION? (yet returns the values of both) 05:11:22 *i.e. 05:11:54 no 05:13:37 mitre: actually, I have a few questions about your approach. in your first cond test, why do you create a list of a list? 05:16:18 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 05:18:27 jimmybean: my modification of mitre's version: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117986#4 05:18:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:20 stassats: thank you. this seems very clear 05:20:38 Goodnigth 05:20:41 http://paste.lisp.org/+2J1E/5 05:20:44 my take on it 05:20:44 *Goodnight* 05:20:49 -!- tmh [63972ac4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:21:04 very clear i think 05:21:40 drdo: i see a striking resemblance to http://paste.lisp.org/display/117986#1 05:22:04 yes lol 05:22:08 i just scrolled up the page 05:22:10 and noticed it 05:23:20 I see that I was trying to return a recursive list of additions to get the count, when I really just wanted to pass the current count in as an argument. that would have opened up some doors. thanks 05:23:49 and i'll check out those chapters on the loop construct so maybe next time I can take advantage of it 05:24:18 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:25:56 Has anyone got sane synaptics settings on a macbook? 05:26:49 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:43 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:27:56 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has left #lisp 05:28:34 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:28:42 for loop-haters: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117986#6 05:29:20 -!- dulouz [~dulouz@2002:d8fe:77db:0:211:2fff:fec3:eeea] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:46 I only hate loop in the sense that it's not extensible 05:30:31 and that it doesn't have something like cond 05:30:35 hating loop is cool and hip 05:30:55 writing lot's of END's in a row is awkward 05:31:02 i like loop 05:31:09 loop is wonderful gr8 05:31:17 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:38 Quadrescence: you're boring and old-school, what do you understand in coll & hip? 05:31:43 cool 05:32:05 stassats: loop does have some problems 05:32:05 isnt haskell cool and hip these days? 05:32:10 no sign of loop there 05:33:10 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:33:25 Haskell is cool for writing little fibonaccis 05:33:55 not so for big fibonacci? 05:34:16 when you try to write big fibonacci's it gets really awkward really fast 05:34:25 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:17 learn a haskell here http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=87 05:35:36 drdo: good mind exercise, i guess, like crossword puzzles 05:35:54 And trying to remember precedence rules in haskell is a joke 05:35:57 though i bet unlambda is more suited for this 05:36:10 drdo: can't you write (+) 1 2 05:36:16 yes 05:36:17 There are 9 levels of precedence if i'm not mistaken, which you can specify for your functions 05:36:46 stassats: You can 05:37:07 But that defeats the whole purpose of having infix functions with 9 precedence levels! 05:38:08 I think they wanted to appeal to perl programmers too 05:38:16 Haskell code looks a lot like perl 05:38:54 i think that's enough non-lisp bashing, let's return to lisp-praising 05:39:56 Haskell has some nice ideas, but it's a disaster as far as syntax goes 05:40:25 i bet they grow to like it, like parenthesis 05:41:17 No one really reads parenthesis, we indent code for a reason 05:42:03 About that, "someone" should fix lisp-mode 05:42:32 I tried to do it, i swear, but each function is like 2 pages long and i gave up after looking at it 05:42:51 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:20 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:26 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:44:38 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:03 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:11 drdo: i think it's unfair to judge something based on your current experience 05:45:38 many are afraid of parenthesis, because they haven't used them before in such a way 05:45:58 stassats: I know many are 05:45:59 -!- mindCrime is now known as _mindCrime 05:46:32 stassats: And it's not unfair, everyone was inexperienced when they started 05:47:17 well, some people are trying to project their previous experience, like say with Java or C, onto Lisp 05:47:58 I started programming in C 05:49:37 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:52:03 Is it possible to return another value when using MAXIMIZE in LOOP? 05:52:13 no 05:52:30 though, what do you mean by that? 05:52:32 I want to maximize something but i don't want the maximized value, i want the stuff that led to that maximum 05:52:45 right, no still holds 05:52:53 meh 05:53:14 that's my top dissatisfaction with loop 05:53:27 This is an example of a problem with loop 05:55:10 Now i'm going to have to write this by hand, which was the problem loop was supposed to solve 05:55:53 loop in sbcl is extensible 05:57:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:58:20 Is there a dotimes where i can specify the starting value? 05:58:33 no 05:59:10 you can (dotimes (i (+ end start)) (let ((i (+ i offset))) ...)) 05:59:19 s/offset/start/ 06:01:04 That's really terrible :P 06:01:15 Might as well go ahead and use loop 06:01:48 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:09:56 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:16 xud477_ [~aniall@212.203.98.114] has joined #lisp 06:11:51 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:12:01 -!- jimmybean [ada9ef02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.169.239.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:16:01 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:37 hello. i run sbcl SBCL 1.0.45.3. the following form causes sbcl to crash: (string #\GREEK_SMALL_LETTER_LAMDA) 06:16:53 crash, as in slime connection terminated unexpectedly. 06:18:07 happens here too, on sbcl 1.0.44 06:18:16 that it means that either of both aren't configured for unicode 06:18:27 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-209-125.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:18:28 but if you add the B to lambda 06:18:34 it gives an error saying not found 06:18:38 and doesn't crash. 06:18:56 it's spelled correctly 06:19:13 i know 06:19:22 what i mean is that unicode seems to be availale 06:19:34 available, if it knows whether or not LAMDA is the correct one. 06:19:39 How do i change sbcl's encoding? 06:20:00 dto: no, slime and sbcl should be communicating using unicode 06:20:02 good evening stassats 06:20:16 (:EXTERNAL-FORMAT :LATIN-1): 06:20:16 the character with code 955 cannot be encoded. 06:20:22 stassats: so. what am I doing wrong? 06:20:29 well it's a greek character. 06:20:39 swank dies 06:20:48 no matter. 06:20:54 is there somebody else who can explain it? i'm not in the mood 06:20:58 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-92-35.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:19 -!- xud477_ [~aniall@212.203.98.114] has left #lisp 06:24:05 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 06:24:10 dto: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/InstallingSlime might help 06:25:25 thank you. 06:26:11 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rahimaokugvxefdj] has joined #lisp 06:26:28 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 06:28:32 pocket_ [~pocket_@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:30:18 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:37:40 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:49:22 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:49:28 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:51:12 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.155] has joined #lisp 06:52:05 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:20 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:02:53 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:03:43 tmh: Beware that #P"" might be suprising. It's entirely implementation dependent what kind of pathname you get by parsing an empty string. What host? What "current" directory? 07:04:04 Also, two pathnames that print the same may be different. 07:05:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-3-18.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:29 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:08:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:28 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:18:12 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-76-55.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:28 -!- jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:21 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-92-35.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:22:29 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:40 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:23:59 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:23:59 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:30 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:24:30 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:24:30 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:24:54 jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:25:08 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 07:25:44 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 07:26:27 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:28 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:29:40 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:30:49 -!- MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:33:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:36:46 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:30 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:58:37 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:01:13 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:03:24 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:03:37 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-205-10.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:14 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-76-55.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:06:35 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-244-129.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:04 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:17 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:08:10 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-205-10.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:10:33 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:25 how do i create a directory ? 08:12:49 freakabcd [~freakabcd@unaffiliated/freakabcd] has joined #lisp 08:12:52 hi all 08:13:00 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-244-129.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:13:49 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-112.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:13 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 08:16:20 Hi 08:17:10 dto: (ensure-directories-exist (make-pathname :name "NAME" :type "TYPE" :defaults directory)) 08:17:18 pjb: thank you. 08:17:20 i'm reading this tutorial: http://www.cs.gmu.edu/~sean/lisp/LispTutorial.html 08:17:26 what is this (1+ 2) ? 08:17:29 pjb: what should TYPE be? 08:17:35 i thought the symbol always comes first 08:17:39 dto: the funny thing is that you need to give a file name and type, which are not used. 08:17:44 and it seems to give the correct answer 08:18:07 hah. 08:18:09 dto: the idea is that when you want to create a file, you may ensure the directories in which it is to be created already exist. 08:18:10 just strings? 08:18:16 Yes. Not empty. 08:18:20 ok. 08:18:47 should it not be (+ 1 2) 08:19:03 freakabcd: tehre's a function named 1+. (defun 1+ (x) (+ 1 x)) 08:19:06 brb 08:19:11 oh, heh 08:19:13 ok. 08:19:22 freakabcd: also (defun 1- (x) (- x 1)) 08:19:39 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA36943.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: be vigilant] 08:19:39 so (1- x) is x-1. 08:19:47 pjb, using sbcl or clisp interactively, is there a way for me to see the definition of that 1+ function? 08:20:23 freakabcd: theorically, function-lambda-expression, but in practice implementations are allowed to return nil, and they do so. So you have to search the source of the implementation yourself. 08:20:25 pjb: should the :defaults argument also be a string? or a pathname? 08:20:34 freakabcd: slime may help, with M-. 08:20:44 dto: it should be a pathname designator. 08:20:49 So a string is ok. 08:20:53 cool. 08:21:03 or how about determining what functions are currently available; is this possible? 08:21:11 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-185.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:13 But you may prefer to give it a pathname, since parsing a string into a pathname is highly implementation dependant. 08:21:20 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:23 slime? i don;t use emacs. i'm using sbcl and clisp from the terminal 08:21:31 Phoodus [~foo@174-22-203-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:43 freakabcd: (do-external-symbols (x "some-package") (if (and (fboundp x) (not (macro-function x))) (print x))) 08:22:00 freakabcd: then grep the sources ;-) 08:22:11 freakabcd: also, of course, read clhs. 08:22:17 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 08:22:24 clhs? 08:22:26 Each chapter has a dictionnary of available functions and operators. 08:22:40 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-112.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:22:40 clhs = http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 08:22:49 operators? i thought there is nothing called "operators" in lisp 08:22:53 atleast this tutorial says so 08:23:02 pjb: did you see the video of what i'm working on ? 08:23:03 freakabcd: operator is the union of function, macros and special operators. 08:23:18 dto: I saw a video of yours last month. 08:23:24 oh, ok. i'm still at the very basics of the language 08:23:45 freakabcd: On http://cliki.net, there are pointers, online tutorials, books, etc. 08:25:12 pjb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irf7AhjkNlo 08:25:20 pjb: http://ioforms.org is the site for this. 08:25:55 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:27:35 dto: it still looks awfully clumsy to use. 08:27:52 (set direction north) (set direction south) (+ 2 (+ 5 2)) 08:28:13 I can type that in ten seocnds, You already have spent 2:30 on it! 08:29:07 And in ten other seconds, I can wrap a sexp in an emacs button so that it gets executed when I click on it. 08:30:01 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-111-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:17 Well, at least, you don't make the user select the commands in a gigantic popup menu. 08:31:31 pjb: i don't expect users to do a lot of (+ 2 5). i'm demonstrating the widget kit and the ability to make the blocks send messages to the blue ball. 08:31:39 dto: do you have (naive) users to test your user interface? 08:31:58 i'd like to have some for an alpha release. 08:32:02 brb 08:33:10 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-121-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:33:10 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:33:25 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:34:09 pjb: i'm not remotely expecting anyone to use this right now. but soon, I am progressing pretty rapidly in devel branch. 08:34:21 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:37:31 lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-176-173.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:37:38 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-176-173.adslplus.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 08:38:06 Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:41:29 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:39 Does anyone using clx with latest sbcl? 08:44:14 I'm try to install clx with quicklisp, Then I got an error. 08:44:24 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:45:02 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:46:58 http://paste.lisp.org/+2J1P 08:47:25 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:48:29 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:48:40 pocket_: it's a known error 08:48:57 Thanks. 08:49:30 How can I escape this error? 08:50:20 wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 08:50:20 -!- wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Changing host] 08:50:20 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 08:50:26 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:39 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:51:05 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:34 I want to use climacs on my laptop. 08:52:42 With SBCL. 08:57:01 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-202-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:57 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-146-185.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:59:55 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:09 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@251.69.125.91.rb4.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 09:00:17 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:03:27 mega1, congratulations on winning planetwars 09:03:48 pocket_: you can get sbcl from cvs 09:04:01 Hmm..? 09:04:04 i was wondering if there is a way to write my own bot and have it play against the existing ones 09:04:23 Then I can escape the error? 09:08:31 Ok, I'll try it 09:08:59 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:12:21 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:49 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-132-73.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:48 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-202-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:20 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-103.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:35 pjb, stassats: hi 09:21:10 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:07 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-132-73.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:22:30 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:42 hi 09:24:43 please help, I'd like to use maxima functions in a lisp program... 09:28:02 Thanks stassats! 09:28:17 I can install climacs on my laptop. 09:30:05 freakabcd: thanks 09:30:22 (I'm off to hunt deers) 09:30:43 (for the dear ones) 09:31:10 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:34:02 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:29 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:09 yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.148.152] has joined #lisp 09:36:56 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.175] has joined #lisp 09:37:18 Can I ask about climacs on this room? 09:39:40 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:42:02 chitech [~khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has joined #lisp 09:44:01 how do YOU check the result of slime-eval-defun? 09:45:07 pocket_: yes 09:45:16 Thanks. 09:45:34 I installed climacs from quicklisp. 09:46:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.46] has joined #lisp 09:46:21 I launch climacs (climacs:climacs). And Type some command-key such as C-xC-F 09:46:49 But Then I got an error message in message-buffer. 09:47:10 C-X is not bound. C-F is not bound. 09:47:50 But when I type M-x Then it works. 09:48:26 does AllegroServe work with sbcl? 09:48:31 I search about this problem, But I cant find any infomation about it. 09:49:32 it's not one I've come across before 09:49:53 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:51:08 Why C-x is sended to climacs C-X(capitalized x)? 09:51:29 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:54 Same problem happend with C-p C-f .... (maybe all of command with Ctrl key) 09:53:38 wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 09:53:39 -!- wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Changing host] 09:53:39 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 09:53:44 do you have some odd keyboard layout? 09:54:03 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:55:12 Hmm... I change my keybord layout. 09:55:26 Ctrl and CapsLock is swaped. 09:57:09 dgs_ [~dgs@ip-118-90-82-92.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:57:34 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-22-203-191.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:18 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: there were fires on the skyline from some distant border-raid] 10:01:40 no, that's not odd, that's sensible :-) 10:02:14 on the other hand, I have just managed to compile and start climacs for myself, admittedly from clbuild not quicklisp 10:02:20 and C-x C-f works for me 10:02:27 is Caps Lock on? 10:02:55 pocket_: how did you swap it? 10:03:14 lisp newb question here... i'm using common lisp and trying to (ext:shell ('command)) but I get a 'package "EXT" not found' error. I'm guessing that means i need to install or import the ext package, but i'm not sure which (or how ...) 10:03:37 dgs_: no, that doesn't mean that 10:03:41 -!- quasi_ [u404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-psduhqhfikabjbnr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:03:52 ahh 10:04:04 dgs_: is this code from land of lisp, perchance? 10:04:07 haha 10:04:12 i was just about to say that 10:04:22 it is indeed 10:04:53 did the book leave something out? 10:05:07 H4ns```` [~user@p579F88AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:18 dgs_: if you use sbcl, see http://blog.ciaranbradley.com/land-of-lisp-chapter-7-using-sbcl 10:05:27 quasi_ [u404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avestezwyqlijgvr] has joined #lisp 10:06:03 ahh 10:06:12 exactly what I was looking for thanks =) 10:06:13 -!- euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cnwcigikpvnhhzhc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:06:18 euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfcaphzburflxcdn] has joined #lisp 10:06:53 but . . . 10:07:37 package 'EXT' not found - if that doesn't mean that package 'EXT' was not found, what does it mean ? 10:07:59 that the package EXT doesn't exist 10:08:55 -!- H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9E1C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:09:00 packages in CL mean something different than packages in some other programming languages 10:10:27 right... 10:11:00 -!- scode_ [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:11:05 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 10:11:43 I swap Ctrl ans Caps by editing xorg.conf 10:12:09 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:44 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:01 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@109.129.148.152] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:18:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:18:19 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 10:18:55 Good evening everyone! 10:18:57 so i'm reading that land of lisp is using common lisp, and so some stuff wont work in sbcl - but isn't sbcl a common lisp? 10:20:13 dgs_: Can you give an example of something that won't work in SBCL? 10:20:40 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 10:21:29 dgs_: SBCL is very close to being a conforming implementation of the Common Lisp standard. 10:22:08 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:24:31 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:00 dgs_: clisp extensions don't work on sbcl 10:25:10 and vice versa 10:25:48 stassats: Do we have reasons to believe that Land of Lisp uses such extensions? 10:26:02 plage, yes, definitly 10:26:19 Hmm, that's not so good. 10:26:23 plage: it does, in fact 10:27:20 and it can't not use any extensions, like in the above example, to run external programs 10:27:44 the bad thing is that it's using clisp extensions exclusively 10:28:26 so can I configure slime to use a different lisp? 10:28:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:29:38 you can, but is it that hard to change one line? 10:29:50 nah, not at all that hard 10:30:12 i just spent about 30 mins googling for how to install the ext package though 10:30:42 just don't want to do that again next time I hit something else incompatible =) 10:31:29 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-64-144.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 10:44:18 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:57 timor [~timor@port-92-195-30-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:17 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 10:46:19 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:46:26 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:47:26 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:29 -!- dgs_ [~dgs@ip-118-90-82-92.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:50:32 -!- freakabcd [~freakabcd@unaffiliated/freakabcd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:51:55 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:00 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:44 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:57:44 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:57:44 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:59:44 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-139-195.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:59:58 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-139-195.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:23 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:25 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:09:30 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:10:48 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 11:10:56 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:05 minion: help 11:11:37 No minion, no lispaste, the world is falling in pieces! 11:14:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:14:53 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:44 dimas [~dimas@ramonak.bas-net.by] has joined #lisp 11:17:10 ysv [~Miranda@195.160.233.25] has joined #lisp 11:17:38 please help, I'd like to use maxima functions in a lisp program, especially linear algebra like matrix multiplications, determinant and matrix inversion 11:17:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:18:18 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:18:35 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:04 -!- fpletz [~fpletz@2001:7f0:3003:42:ccc:acab:ed:23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:42 hi. does anybody knows how to get optimization qualities in CL (e.g. in LispWorks)? 11:21:07 optimization qualities? 11:21:43 Guthur [c743cb8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.140] has joined #lisp 11:22:05 yep. e.g. I have (declaim (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0)) at the beginning of loaded file 11:22:42 then after some time I'd like to print those qualities in REPL 11:23:37 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:23:59 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:32 *plage* thinks this is one of those cases where he fails to understand the question, even though it is obvious to eveyone else, so he waits a while to see whether anyone else gets it. 11:26:04 "how do I get the system to tell me the optimization qualities currently in effect in Lispworks" 11:26:09 (I don't know the answer) 11:26:31 Ah, yes, that seems like a reasonable thing to want to do. 11:32:39 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 11:34:46 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:34:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:35:11 Posterdati: there is a nice layer beneath the repl. I cant find my code though.. if you have patient.. 11:35:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B152.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:30 lhz: sure 11:35:46 -!- _mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:36:38 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:36:45 Sorry for my slowly replay. 11:37:07 I change xorg.conf to swap CapsLock and Ctrl. ctrl:swapcaps. 11:37:59 I stop to swap ctrl and caps. Then climacs works fine. But, I want to swap capslock and ctrl. 11:39:59 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:53 muddyferret [~muddyferr@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:54 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:22 freakabcd [~freakabcd@60-241-43-186.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:45:11 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:51:11 <_8david> I'm always running with keys swapped like that, and while I've never been a heavy climacs user, I don't recall having problems when trying it. 11:52:00 Hmm... 11:52:15 <_8david> I'm still using xmodmap for those kinds of changes though. Do the modifiers as reported by xmodmap look correct for you? 11:52:44 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:11 I stop to swap these keys and I try to swap it by xmodmap 11:53:25 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:53:26 But, I cant swap keys. 11:54:16 When I use xmodmap to swap these then xev shows keycode is Control_L, but capslock is work. 11:55:02 So I stopped to try swap these by xmodmap. And now I'm using xorg.conf. 11:56:01 May be this problem caused from my key swap setting. 11:56:39 Because I tested this problem from other machine by ssh -x then climacs works fine. 11:56:59 And other machine keyboard map is not modified. 11:58:50 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:58 <_8david> it's a multi-step process to properly stop them using xmodmap, because both symbols and modifiers need to be changed. The xmodmap manpage has the full instructions (search for "! Swap Caps_Lock and Control_L"). 12:02:50 Hmm... 12:03:16 I can swap these keys with xmodmap? 12:03:33 Ok I'll read mampage of xmodmap. 12:03:59 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 12:04:00 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:33 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 12:05:29 Posterdati: I'vr found a snippet atleast, http://paste.lisp.org/+2J1R .. still searching for the interface. 12:05:50 vokoda__ [~peter@host86-147-40-197.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:38 Yahoo!!! 12:07:52 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:53 Thanks!! _8david!! 12:08:11 I can swap these keys and works fine climacs too!! 12:08:59 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-163.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:02 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.199.232] has joined #lisp 12:09:44 -!- vokoda__ [~peter@host86-147-40-197.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:51 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-2-165.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:11:12 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.244.189] has joined #lisp 12:11:13 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:07 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@251.69.125.91.rb4.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:12:49 -!- ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 12:14:25 vokoda [~vokoda@host86-147-40-197.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:06 decaf [~mehmet@78.162.4.66] has joined #lisp 12:25:48 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:29 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:41 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.210.138.61] has joined #lisp 12:30:09 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:32:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:53 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:04 Posterdati: I've found it, annotated previous paste. 12:35:15 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has joined #lisp 12:37:36 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.175] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 *simias* uses setxkbmap -option "ctrl:nocaps" to replace caps lock with control 12:43:09 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-3-18.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:32 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:47:45 hi simias. 12:50:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:52:17 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host86-147-40-197.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:53:54 vokoda [~vokoda@host86-179-140-116.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:32 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:59:24 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:01:53 -!- Alfa|WERK [~AlfaWolph@c-75-66-60-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:07 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-10.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:02:13 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-2-165.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:02:53 kanru [~kanru@61-231-51-112.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:09 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:04:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:04:38 lhz: thanks I'm trying it right now :) TX 13:05:31 lhz: but I need linear algebra capabilities 13:06:15 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 13:07:32 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C6AF7B4D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 13:07:32 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 13:07:56 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:11:33 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:15:33 Posterdati: Sorry, I cant help you further. I do remember some maxima-repl-command that dump an maxima-repl expression as an maxima-lisp-form. It could've been the other way around :) 13:15:50 lhz: ok, thanks 13:19:44 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 13:20:16 vokoda_ [~vokoda@host109-153-56-72.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:02 Ok, I just released this: https://github.com/sck/clispy 13:21:22 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-191-173.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:49 -!- vokoda [~vokoda@host86-179-140-116.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:24:41 Posterdati: do you need linear algebra, or symbolic linear algebra? 13:25:33 pkhuong: linear algebra, I don't need symbolic stuffs 13:26:34 dostoyevsky: i thought that would be like Clippy, but for Slime 13:27:07 I thought it would be like clpython. 13:27:12 very confusing name 13:27:15 for clisp. 13:27:34 Posterdati: then use a wrapper for blas and lapack. 13:27:53 pkhuong: I dunno how to do that 13:28:06 stassats: Ok... I am confused now as well... I think the c of clispy may stand for "confused" 13:28:25 Posterdati: fairly sure you don't know how to use maxima programmatically either. 13:28:45 *stassats* imagines Clippy, "It looks like you're writing a macro, while it can be written as a function. Would you like help?" 13:28:45 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.199.232] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:28:48 pkhuong: I used maxima with wxmaxima 13:30:33 Xach: kudos again on quicklisp and seeing that several of the libraries i'm considering using are in quicklisp already :) 13:30:40 dto: woo 13:30:40 :) 13:31:03 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:31:25 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 Xach: it would be intersting to add more blocks, for example a camera block or a mic-in block. I already have a dance pad widget too :) 13:33:05 -!- vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:34:42 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:30 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:35 huh 13:35:52 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.175] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:35:58 (progn (defpackage :foo (:use cl)) (shadow :delete :foo) (unintern :delete :foo) (package-shadowing-symbols :foo)) => (FOO::DELETE) 13:36:03 that doesn't seem right 13:36:21 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:36:29 in sbcl if i evaluate it again, that list grows, (FOO::DELETE FOO::DELETE), etc. 13:37:23 Are you sure it's not right? 13:37:24 stassats: what do you think unintern does in that code? 13:37:41 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.175] has joined #lisp 13:37:45 uinterns and delete the symbol from the shadow list 13:37:48 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-231-51-112.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:38:00 stassats: what symbol? 13:38:02 stassats: I think you're trying to unintern a keyword.. 13:38:13 mishoo: Shush 13:38:13 Xach: "FOO" 13:38:26 stassats: that's a string? 13:38:33 that's a name 13:38:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-204-85.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:38:54 stassats: is unintern specified to take a name? 13:38:58 mishoo: Shush me! :-) 13:39:10 :) 13:39:30 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:40:18 escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:41:07 Xach: ok, let's change it to (progn (defpackage :foo (:use cl)) (shadow :foobar :foo) (unintern :foobar :foo) (list (find-symbol "FOOBAR" :foo) (package-shadowing-symbols :foo))) => (NIL (FOO::FOOBAR)) 13:41:15 "that doesn't seem right" 13:41:36 independently of what is specified 13:44:12 stassats: agreed. 13:45:02 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@19.58.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:08 and then shadow adds it to the list of shadowed symbols again, because it can't find that symbol in the package 13:45:31 stassats: time to switch to an implementation that gets it right! 13:45:57 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-151-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:04 that's a bad strategy, it's time to fix! 13:46:33 which implementation is it? out of curiosity 13:46:50 sbcl, as i initially said 13:46:59 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-10.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:54 oh yeah, missed that part 13:49:13 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-50-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:49:28 so... what would be the right behaviour? i figured it would take the name of a symbol, because otherwise why would it have an optional "package" parameter, and there is no other way for a symbol to present in a package other than being interned 13:51:08 stassats: cl:car is interned in any package that :uses cl, so you might want to (unintern 'cl:car :my-spiffy-packate), right? 13:51:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:51:44 *Xach* reads more 13:52:03 Xach: but unintern uninterns only present symbols, and present is "not inherited" 13:52:41 though wait, maybe just IMPORTed symbols do count 13:53:24 pkhuong: then? 13:54:24 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:54:26 right, imported symbols are :internal 13:54:55 so, the right behaviour for the above form would be to not unintern :foo 13:56:08 stassats: not unintern foobar, rather? 13:56:25 well, whatever it was in the example 13:58:33 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:39 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:53 rfg [~rfg@82.132.248.138] has joined #lisp 14:01:16 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:01:23 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:02:50 *Xach* wonders if the problem is inherited from cmucl 14:03:08 ...or maybe imported 14:06:21 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:07:51 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:15 stassats: yes, cmucl has the same problem. (and no others that i can test right now.) 14:08:33 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:09 that is, it works as specified in allegro cl, ecl, ccl, abcl, and clisp. 14:09:21 and lispworks 14:09:50 *stassats* is already composing a bug-report with a patch 14:09:55 yay! abcl is in the "compliant" list! 14:10:39 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:11:51 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:15 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 14:13:24 pno coal in the abcl stocking this year 14:13:35 -!- dimas [~dimas@ramonak.bas-net.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:15:11 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:34 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 14:16:32 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-30-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:01 timor [~timor@port-92-195-30-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:11 Slime suggests args for "(make-instance 'url::http-search". 14:19:45 But there are to many keywords for the minibuffer. Where can I see them all? 14:20:06 The buffer *Messages* have none. 14:20:15 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:20:27 chrnybo: C-c C-d A 14:20:29 Or perhaps I could ask the listener myself? 14:21:30 stassats: Thanks! 14:23:19 I stopped by here yesterday and was kindly asked to use an http client rather than fetching urls by hand. 14:24:00 Drakma was nice, but as our project already uses CL-HTTP, I'd like to give it's included client a try. 14:24:17 s/it's/its/ , sorry. 14:24:37 nothing beats drakma 14:26:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26:17 vasile [~vasile@john-marshall.sflc.info] has joined #lisp 14:27:03 stassats: a drakma with compression would. ;) 14:27:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 14:27:33 chrnybo: easy to add! 14:27:35 you can add it with just two lines of code 14:28:03 Hah, one: (ql:quickload "drakma") 14:28:21 it -> compression 14:28:23 stassats: Or did you think of using it in two lines? 14:29:05 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:45 stassats: Ah. 14:30:13 using chipz, for instance 14:31:04 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rahimaokugvxefdj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:31:34 or pierre mai's deflate 14:32:16 Thanks, will hook it in after Christmas. 14:32:27 or zlib using cffi using :hu.dwim.util.zlib 14:32:35 So many choices! 14:33:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:42 chipz seems to cover most variants you're likely to meet from web servers, right? 14:34:09 chrnybo: Are there variants? I thought only one compression method was specified. 14:34:41 -!- decaf [~mehmet@78.162.4.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:13 for the record, I've implemented http compression encodings in our server using :hu.dwim.util.zlib 14:35:43 urandom__ [~user@p548A377C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:17 -!- freakabcd [~freakabcd@60-241-43-186.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:37:01 although gzip is not supported... so, make that encodings singular in my previous line 14:37:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633890.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:46 Xach: By variants I meant "ways of making a payload smaller", and I thought that some servers prefer gzip, others deflate. 14:38:21 iirc ie has a ton of issues with gzip 14:38:59 Note that I dabble in _fetching_ pages at the moment, from various web services within the company where I work. 14:40:04 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:55 chrnybo: if you don't care about network load, then you can just not send any accept-encoding to the server and they should honour it and send back uncompressed content 14:41:33 I was slightly disappointed to see hunchentoot did not seem to support compression 14:41:41 unless I'm missing something 14:42:50 chrnybo: ah, my impression was wrong. i thought only one style was supported. 14:43:16 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:04 Guthur: this one supports, both for dynamic content and static file serving: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.web-server;a=summary 14:44:06 attila_lendvai: Network load is not that much of an issue, but if I could process more requests by asking for compressed content, it'd be nice to use it. 14:44:52 attila_lendvai: The use case here is asking for a local service for address info for quite a lot of customer objects. 14:45:05 (right now I'm working on splitting hu.dwim.wui into hu.dwim.web-server and hu.dwim.presentation, soon to arrive in quicklisp) 14:45:49 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:46:19 Thanks for your help, I'll try chipz first, but in a few days time. 14:46:23 chrnybo: it's not obvious whether compression will spead that up or not 14:47:53 Guthur: does it have to? 14:47:58 attila_lendvai: Hopefully I'll get to try out both with and without compression, and I can measure the effect on speed. 14:48:28 Guthur: wouldn't one use a frontend for compression? 14:48:29 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-50-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:29 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633890.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:48:37 stassats: your test seems to have a typo. 14:48:53 (unitern :sym "FOO") 14:49:08 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-4-104.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:49:11 unless that's the unicode "ZERO-WIDTH N" glyph 14:49:14 goddamn, i always mistype unintern in that way 14:49:23 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:34 -!- rfg [~rfg@82.132.248.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:46 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:55 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:06 Xach: thanks, corrected 14:52:37 rtoym: hi! stassats just filed a bug against sbcl, but it also applies to cmucl. https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/693796 14:52:44 -!- nickaugust [~nick@li181-40.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 14:53:02 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 14:55:10 *rtoym* goes to take a look.... 14:55:12 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has left #lisp 14:55:18 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:55:22 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:57:25 -!- mitre_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 14:59:16 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8BC8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:59:17 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:00:30 There's a slight bug in the fix. The code now reads the ignored variable s. The same fix applies to cmucl. Does this affect quicklisp? 15:01:05 Guthur: I use hunchentoot behind a reverse proxy which takes care of compression (nginx and apache both do) 15:01:10 rtoym: it does? 15:01:39 i've clearly removed ignore declaration 15:02:40 rtoym: it's not a quicklisp-derived bug find, no 15:03:36 stassats: Oh, sorry. I missed the - on that line. 15:04:10 Anyway, I'll apply this fix soon. Thanks for the tip, Xach, and for the fix, stassats! 15:04:11 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:04:53 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@19.58.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:05:11 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:51 billitch [~billitch@78.250.211.119] has joined #lisp 15:07:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:08:39 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-219.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 rfg [~rfg@82.132.211.107] has joined #lisp 15:11:01 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-4-104.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:07 antifuchs: yes _3b recommend nginx as a possible solution 15:11:20 sorry for the delay, work stuff on at the moment 15:15:47 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@19.58.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:49 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 15:15:50 sellout [~greg@24-176-188-187.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:26 Bronsa [~brace@host142-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:19:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:19:12 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:19:28 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:20:14 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:35 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 15:27:20 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.211.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:07 did anyone read Land of Lisp? how is it? 15:29:41 kanru [~kanru@118-160-162-103.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:55 *LiamH* saw the music video 15:30:02 lol 15:30:25 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:48 billitch [~billitch@78.250.211.119] has joined #lisp 15:31:30 Big_bear [Big_bear@58.42.39.125] has joined #lisp 15:32:22 -!- Big_bear [Big_bear@58.42.39.125] has left #lisp 15:33:01 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:49 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:38:05 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:38:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:48 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 15:41:07 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:21 -!- ysv [~Miranda@195.160.233.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:26 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B53D77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:40 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B53D77.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:42:18 Guthur: good - for static files, nginx is preferable anyway (: 15:43:13 i prefer lighttpd! 15:43:48 fight! 15:44:26 *shrug* when you have loads of hits, you need varnish in front of anything that serves the web, anyway (-: 15:44:38 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:45:46 Dranik: 1. yes 2. good 15:45:58 cmm, thanks! 15:47:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 15:49:01 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-107-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:50:15 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:15 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-30-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:07 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:44 antifuchs: my use case was serving up dynamically generated image data 15:53:59 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:54:02 like png? why gzip that? 15:54:28 is png already compressed? 15:54:37 yes 15:54:52 yeah, very (: 15:54:56 -!- vokoda_ is now known as vokoda 15:54:59 hehe, oops 15:55:06 ((-: 15:55:33 for text (html, css, javascript) gzip makes a lot of sense, but png is already highly compressed (: 15:55:54 *Xach* remembers the bad old days of AOL proxies re-compressing jpeg, gif files and making them look awful 15:56:09 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:56:32 What do people use when they want a wget-like functionality in CL? DRAKMA, or is there something simpler when you don't need cookies or login? 15:56:50 Guthur: and http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngintro.html says how it's sometimes possible to re-compress PNGs reducing size noticeably 15:57:01 LiamH: ccl has a simple http client built in 15:57:06 -!- H4ns```` is now known as H4ns 15:57:21 I was using Zachs zpng 15:57:24 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 15:57:28 LiamH: other than that, i use drakma. 15:57:30 ZPNG is not the most efficient compressor. 15:57:32 H4ns: OK, but looking for portability. 15:57:40 LiamH: I like drakma, and find it plenty simple 15:58:12 LiamH: quicklisp includes an http client that supports proxies and chunking, but it's not really packaged well for re-use. 15:58:12 antifuchs: OK. I'm recalling there was a trivial-http at one point but maybe it's best to use drakma. 15:58:13 -!- sellout [~greg@24-176-188-187.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:58:13 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:16 (http-request "http://address") and you're done (: 15:58:25 *Xach* uses drakma for everything but quicklisp 15:58:46 Xach: I was wondering what ql had. If it's not packaged up then I'll use drakma. 15:58:47 drakma is better than wget! 15:59:00 Xach: would it make sense to bootstrap into drakma? (: 15:59:08 stassats: Why do you say that? 15:59:18 because drakma rocks 15:59:23 antifuchs: I'd like to make the http bit more easily pluggable. 15:59:56 benny [~benny@i577A38B4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 I suppose you'd still have to have your own http client for bootstrapping, and since you request from s3 only (and not from arbitrarily-broken web servers all across the internet), you can even cut a few corners (: 16:01:05 antifuchs: actually, i do need to support arbitrary possibly-broken servers for third-party dists, but that's not exposed yet. 16:01:13 heh 16:01:23 antifuchs: after i get pgp support working, the idea is anyone can put up a signed dist or tarball and quicklisp will install it. 16:01:26 MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 that's why the client supports chunking already, even though it doesn't actually use it. 16:01:53 I'm looking forward to that! 16:06:54 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #lisp 16:09:28 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-162-103.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 16:11:40 unkanon_ [~unkanon@rrcs-69-193-217-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:53 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:33 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.211.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:48 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:16:54 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 16:18:15 interesting... GIF is suppose to be pronounced with soft a g, I've alway used the harder g 16:19:26 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.93] has joined #lisp 16:20:05 the file format? 16:20:09 and PNG is suppose to be 'ping', someone forgot to tell us here 16:20:13 I've always used hard G too 16:20:16 unkanon_: yep 16:20:18 ping? pff 16:20:45 according to the bottom of this http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngintro.html 16:21:18 i thought it meant Papua New Guinea 16:22:38 I thought it meant PNG's Not GIF 16:23:21 too bad minion isn't here to tell use what PNG actually stands for 16:23:31 `/w 22 16:23:32 unkanon_: Portable Network Graphics 16:23:33 oops 16:23:58 that's right 16:24:11 i had heard it before 16:24:22 but PNG's Not GIF fits so well... 16:24:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:24:45 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 16:25:18 yeah, recursive acronyms are so RMS though 16:25:48 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:49 he love them, I quite like them too though 16:26:40 Royal Mail Ship? 16:26:41 what's RMS ? 16:27:12 stassats, you could be the new minion 16:27:32 unkanon_: its Richard Stallman's internet handle 16:27:33 my dictionary is too limited 16:29:35 hmm 16:31:57 RMS Mimics Stallman? 16:34:51 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:35:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:10 hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:12 -!- hargettp_ [~anonymous@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:55 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:37:20 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:58 is that so? RMS is Root Mean Square por moi 16:42:18 So the only difference between a macro and function is that the former is executed at compile time. 16:42:54 MindVirus: No. 16:43:04 schmx: Could you elaborate? 16:43:10 -!- rfg [~rfg@82.132.211.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:10 right, and that it operates on the source code 16:43:40 MindVirus: Argument evaluation is there. and macroexpand time. 16:44:00 stassats: So do functions. 16:44:07 MindVirus: no, they don't 16:44:11 functions operate on values 16:44:36 Data, if you will. 16:44:42 Which in LISP includes code. 16:44:44 no, they don't 16:45:01 Functions can operate on functions. 16:45:22 Whatever, my question is about macros. 16:45:23 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:45:30 MindVirus: a macro is a function invoked at macroexpansion-time that takes source-code and returns source code 16:45:46 tcr: So the only part that is evaluated is the macro itself. 16:45:52 MindVirus: well, macros are just ordinary functions which perform source-code transofmations 16:46:07 MindVirus: ? 16:46:09 So, first the macros are executed, then the source code is executed. 16:46:26 macros are expanded 16:46:31 The source code is not necessarily executed; E.g. C-c C-m in Slime 16:47:16 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host142-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:58 Bronsa [~bronsa@host142-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:48:41 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:52 I'm saying that during execution of LISP code, first the macros are executed, then the code is executed. 16:48:55 Explicit macroexpansion is also used in advanced macrology for passing of compile-time, lexical information from an outer macro to an inner macro to guide code expansion 16:49:10 MindVirus: it's "Lisp", not "LISP" 16:49:32 Sorry, I have a lisp. 16:49:42 MindVirus: We're just being very pedantic and basically saying, there are a few more details  but basically you're right 16:50:15 I don't even know what I'm right about anymore. 16:51:04 "macro is a function invoked at macroexpansion-time that takes source-code and returns source code" this is right 16:51:27 What is macroexpansion-time? 16:51:32 That's before evaluation-time, right? 16:51:44 The time MACROEXPAND (MACROEXPAND-1) is invoked 16:51:52 mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:57 What the fuck? 16:52:05 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_.htm 16:52:33 The compiler has to invoke it while processing the source code 16:53:42 MindVirus: no, it can be done during evaluation, though obviously you need to expand a macro before evaluating its result 16:53:53 there are the following stages: READ (or parsing), (pre)processing which involves macroexpansion and compile-time evaluation (as per EVAL-WHEN), compiling (which involves CFG analysis, optimization, then code generation) into a fasl file 16:54:15 which can then be LOADed 16:54:21 and finally executed 16:55:19 Was this clarifying? 16:55:37 yeah, I learned 16:56:19 koning_robot: There's another subtle issue; load-time and execution is not necessarily coupled either by the image-dumping feature of many implementations 16:57:16 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:37 -!- Guthur [c743cb8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.140] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:07 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-107-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:59:27 I'm not who you were originally talking to, but your last statement isn't clear to me. What does it mean that they are or aren't coupled? 16:59:55 I wonder whether (eval-when (:execute )) would have been adjusted if image-dumping had been standardized 17:00:27 koning_robot: If you load all your code, then save-lisp-and-die to produce a core file, then later start sbcl from that core file 17:00:41 gigamonkey: quick binary-data quiz: If I have (define-binary-class c (a b) ...) in what order do the slots get read/written? 17:00:51 (the answer surprised me, although I guess it shouldn't have) 17:00:59 koning_robot: then stuff at load-time was already executed before the save-lisp-and-die and will not be executed at startup anymore 17:01:24 koning_robot: Makes sense? 17:01:40 it only matters if you initialize some external resources at load-time 17:01:45 tcr: yes 17:01:50 like network connection, etc. 17:01:52 stassats: Uhm np 17:01:53 no 17:02:04 -!- MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:05 It can matter a lot 17:02:16 otherwise the image is the same 17:03:15 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:32 Depends on how watery you understand "external resource" 17:04:00 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:08 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 17:04:42 network, file-system, time 17:04:53 but foom had discovered a "nice" issue that the memory dumped into a core can't be reclaimed and is used by SBCL's GC as roots all the time (which I'd consider a bug in SBCL's gc) 17:05:27 pinkwerks [2679e0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.224.251] has joined #lisp 17:05:34 stassats: also ffi 17:05:51 yes, the list isn't exhaustive 17:06:26 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:06:26 it may be even run on a different machine 17:06:59 if I read in a string composed of a letter and a number, such as "A2" using (read-line *query-io*), can I separate the two using car and cadr? 17:07:09 no 17:07:18 karthik6_ [~chatzilla@27.57.58.176] has joined #lisp 17:07:21 A string is not a cons, so no. 17:07:28 dang 17:07:39 a string is an array? 17:07:42 yes 17:07:48 (char "A2" 0) (char "A2" 1) 17:07:53 so i'd access them using aref? 17:07:53 oh 17:08:00 A string is an array, a sequence and a vector. 17:08:09 You can use aref, char, maybe schar, elt. 17:08:12 Use CHAR for strings. 17:08:22 okie dokie, thanks much! 17:08:24 row-major-aref! 17:08:27 maybe svref. 17:08:29 so many options. 17:08:37 wait, not svref. 17:09:43 any body is from india 17:09:47 (loop repeat 2 for i across string finally (return i)) 17:10:30 any body is from india 17:10:55 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:28 lots of people are from India 17:11:53 (find-if (constantly t) "A2" :start 1) 17:12:29 -!- karthik6_ [~chatzilla@27.57.58.176] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.11/20101123124820]] 17:12:47 though (count-if (constantly t) "A2") also seems to work, and conveniently converts the character to the number it represents 17:12:56 (digit-char (parse-integer "A1" :start 0 :end 1 :radix 36) 36) => #\A 17:13:57 (character (subseq "A2" 1 2)) 17:14:07 koning_robot: not really 17:14:37 I swear it returns 2! 17:14:38 timor [~timor@port-92-195-52-62.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:50 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 17:14:51 koning_robot: so does 2 17:15:04 Where's the topic police when you need it... 17:15:14 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:15 you're right.. maybe that would work better 17:15:36 Hexstream: yeah, we clearly talk too much about lisp, that should be stopped! 17:15:39 tmh [63972ac4@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:15:46 Greetings. 17:16:05 tmh: Hello. 17:16:19 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:16:28 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:18 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:17:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:19:01 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:24 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:12 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:21:29 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925256071.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:25:54 how come when I test out this function using any combination of letter and number that should be acceptable, it gives me "NIL is not a number"? 17:25:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118005 17:26:19 you're using case wrong 17:26:23 I assume I did something wrong in the case, but i can't figure out what 17:26:41 you did several things wrong in the case 17:26:42 why are you quoting symbols in case clauses? 17:27:04 firstly, characters (which you get from CHAR) are not the same objects as symbols with one character in their names 17:27:04 oh, they should be in "", shouldn't they? 17:27:08 no 17:27:17 #\? 17:27:32 secondly, case keys shouldn't be quoted 17:27:39 that's not very elegant in any case 17:28:26 (('A 'a)) really means (((quote A) (quote a))), so that case clause will only stand a chance of matching if the object looks like ((quote A) (quote a)) 17:28:38 (* (- (digit-char-p char 36) 9) 10) 17:28:59 dgs_ [~dgs@ip-118-90-82-92.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:29:16 stassats' solution is cute, though it behaves differently for letters not in a-j 17:29:41 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:19 case is a fine tool; I'd use it something like (case (char-upcase (char guess 0)) ((#\A) 10) ((#\B) 20) ...)) 17:30:47 in this case where you are trying to simulate a 10x10 grid, something based around stassats' formulation is likely to be better 17:31:05 or (* (- (char-code (char-upcase char)) (char-code #\A) -1) 10) 17:31:17 though, beware of EBCDIC! 17:31:20 oh, you might also want CCASE 17:32:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.244.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:02 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:40:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:41:14 okay, this is what i have now, and i still get the same error :/ 17:41:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118005#1 17:41:41 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:56 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@36.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:16 that's because guess-num is NIL 17:43:53 it is? I thought parse-integer works on strings :( 17:44:02 it does 17:44:09 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:44:15 buy you're using it wrong 17:44:20 oh 17:44:45 what am i doing incorrectly? 17:44:56 i won't say! 17:45:06 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:45:29 learn how to debug on your own, i've given you enough tips 17:45:37 k 17:47:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:58 *JuanDaugherty* loves this channel. 17:53:07 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:50 eihrul [~eihrul@84-231-33-219.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@84-231-33-219.elisa-mobile.fi] has left #lisp 17:56:27 mmk, it works now. 17:56:30 time for a cigarette. 17:58:17 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:55 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-102-158.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-52-62.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:44 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:56 lxsameer [~lxsameer@109.110.180.140] has joined #lisp 18:04:23 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:34 Which implementations besides SBCL bundle ASDF? 18:05:21 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 18:05:25 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:29 tmh: most of them, i believe. fare keeps track, and i think clisp might be one of the few without it. 18:05:46 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:06:31 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:06:53 and lispworks 18:07:23 timor [~timor@port-92-195-111-96.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:42 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-102-158.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10:18 CCL certainly does, at least for last few revisions 18:12:34 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:43 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:47 I'm trying to devise a rational approach to dealing with empty *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS* and how (default-source-registry) populates the registry, at least on Windows. 18:13:03 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:09 My experiments are with CCL and LispWorks. 18:13:22 symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:29 By empty, I mean the path #P"" 18:14:18 I think it would help if I was also playing with this on Linux. It might be time to install VirtualBox 18:14:33 warzl [~warzl@159.153.4.50] has joined #lisp 18:14:57 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 18:16:05 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A829.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:16 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18:34 What happened to minion? 18:18:48 holiday vacations 18:18:58 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:19:02 Okay, this is what is causing me trouble -> http://paste.lisp.org/+2J1Y 18:19:21 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326427.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:50 tmh: the folks involved are more likely to pay attention and discuss on the asdf-devel list, fwiw. 18:20:42 Ah, yes, I have a bad habit of just assuming that if it's lisp related they're lurking here. I guess I'm getting into the realm of actually needing to focus. :-) 18:21:40 Fare and rpg are here sometimes, but not lately. 18:22:43 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 18:25:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:25:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-215.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:25:29 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:19 redline6` [~user@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:45 -!- redline6` [~user@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:25 redline6` [~user@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:25 Xach: I'm looking through the archives. What did you end up doing about incrementally updating the source registry? 18:28:33 -!- redline6` [~user@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:56 tmh: Push to asdf:*central-registry* 18:29:23 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:23 Xach: I'm guessing this is Quicklisp related? 18:29:33 tmh: Partly. More for quickproject in that case. 18:29:43 -!- dgs_ [~dgs@ip-118-90-82-92.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:49 I was going to do some things along quicklisp lines, but that roadblock is so annoying that I've put it off. 18:29:53 redline6561 [~user@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 -!- redline6561 [~user@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:00 Heh, now I see your last commit on Github. 18:32:17 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-165-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:33:10 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-111-96.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:26 ziga` [~user@BSN-61-48-239.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:10 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:38:41 Xach: The entire point of me finally digging into using the ASDF2 source registry was to dig into Quicklisp. I spent yesterday getting aquainted with the source registry and am fairly comfortable/pleased with how it works. I'm just trying to iron out some kinks that it has on Win7. 18:39:28 Quicklisp doesn't do anything with ASDF2 that couldn't be done with ASDF1. 18:39:40 ASDF2 has been little more than a headache to me. 18:40:01 Maybe it builds stuff faster. 18:40:42 Well, that is sort of the reason that I wanted to dig into ASDF2 first. Since Quicklisp does rely on it, I wanted to have a handle on that first before I ran into any issues on Quicklisp. 18:42:07 timor [~timor@port-92-195-6-56.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:42:39 If people who use Quicklisp have to care at all about ASDF2, I failed. 18:44:08 Don't take me as the norm. I'm compulsively detail oriented. 18:44:43 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-165-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:03 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:05 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925256071.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:46:21 Xach: incorporating the asdf-binary-locations functionality into the core asdf and more easily available for quicklisp has probably has made your life easier 18:46:34 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-6-56.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:46:39 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-64-144.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:48:07 It might have, on balance. 18:52:44 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:50 sirmacik [sirmacik@host-89-229-79-176.szczecin.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 18:52:50 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@host-89-229-79-176.szczecin.mm.pl] has quit [Changing host] 18:52:50 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 18:56:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.202.193] has joined #lisp 18:58:06 -!- lxsameer [~lxsameer@109.110.180.140] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:59:07 lxsameer [~lxsameer@109.110.180.140] has joined #lisp 18:59:44 -!- pr_ [phil@komodo.contextshift.eu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:49 eihrul [~eihrul@84-231-33-219.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 18:59:52 pr [phil@komodo.contextshift.eu] has joined #lisp 18:59:52 -!- pr [phil@komodo.contextshift.eu] has quit [Changing host] 18:59:52 pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:13 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:28 timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:29 -!- sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:48 sm` [~s@78.157.15.219] has joined #lisp 19:02:18 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:29 -!- vasile [~vasile@john-marshall.sflc.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:07:16 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:09:03 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:12:32 decaf [~mehmet@78.162.4.66] has joined #lisp 19:16:06 francogrex [~user@109.130.58.126] has joined #lisp 19:18:30 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 19:20:05 I see that the ansi-tests (svn repository) from yesterday to today have been significantly updated! to whoever did it. Thanks 19:20:33 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:04 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 19:23:08 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:23:40 -!- lxsameer [~lxsameer@109.110.180.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:24:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-215.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:25:43 lxsameer [~lxsameer@109.110.180.35] has joined #lisp 19:25:53 francogrex: Really? What revision are you on? 19:26:12 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:39 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:27 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 19:29:35 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:58 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 19:32:18 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:34:09 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-5-77.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:35:34 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:55 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:16 Xach, I can't tell, but I have a version downloaded yesterday and one downloaded today; two different behaviors 19:36:37 I can send you both if you want 19:37:06 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:37:14 francogrex: You can tell if you type "svn update". It will say "At revision XXXX." 19:37:28 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:05 boscop_ [~boscop@g227116175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:38 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:54 http://common-lisp.net/websvn/log.php?repname=ansi-test&path=/&rev=0&sc=0&isdir=1 19:40:08 francogrex: ^^^ no commits in 6 weeks 19:40:13 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.161.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:39 seems quite odd! 19:40:40 -!- boscop [~boscop@g230087110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:44 timor [~timor@port-92-195-112-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:49 seriously 19:41:39 12 19:41:53 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.181.218] has joined #lisp 19:42:44 Alfa|WERK [~AlfaWolph@c-75-66-60-146.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:50 I assure you the two versions one gotten yesterday (evening) and one gotten today (evening) from the same svn repository have different behaviors 19:43:10 (at least on my lisp system) 19:44:16 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 francogrex: maybe your computer is haunted. 19:52:13 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:53:30 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:53:53 "I am the ghost of revisions past!" 19:54:11 Xach :) just a sec I am posting the two outputs. 19:55:42 a christmas eve eve miracle 19:59:17 I'm not hallucinating, something changed somewhere: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118007 20:01:05 -!- boscop_ is now known as boscop 20:02:24 175 seconds! ah. if only my testsuite evaluations were that short... 20:03:07 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-8-92.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:04:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:31 -!- rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: rlb3] 20:06:13 ehu: why aren't they as fast? 20:06:39 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:07:12 I have no idea. it's a good question. but I think it's because I'm using ABCL and ABCL doesn't do much type inferencing or branch detection at compile time. 20:07:26 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:08:17 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:54 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:11:56 ok, but anyway strange the differences; could svn have garbled some of the files? 20:13:06 most differences seem related to PPRINT and FORMAT 20:13:09 not likely. 20:13:44 did you download a pre-composed binary, or really download off the svn server? 20:14:23 really off the svn using this both times: $ svn checkout svn://common-lisp.net/project/ansi-test/svn/trunk/ansi-tests 20:14:23 20:14:38 totally weird. 20:15:30 in any case, I like the version I have today better (makes my sbcl more compliant :) 20:15:32 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@19.58.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:16:25 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 20:20:27 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:51 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:21:28 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 20:23:00 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:15 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:50 -!- decaf [~mehmet@78.162.4.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:29 -!- lxsameer [~lxsameer@109.110.180.35] has left #lisp 20:27:41 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.21.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:06 Miesco [~mugsy@76-10-183-219.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:13 On lisp or ANSI lisp? 20:31:18 ANSI common lisp 20:31:20 * 20:31:32 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 20:31:37 Miesco: what are you asking? (: 20:31:56 What book I should read 20:32:00 neither (initially) 20:33:05 Miesco: what francogrex said. 20:33:05 but if it's a strict choice between only those two go first with ansi common lisp and then on lisp 20:33:27 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-186-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:34:19 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-229.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 Miesco, Have you checked out practical common lisp 20:35:15 *Guthur* wishes minion was here to give the details 20:35:47 darn slacker 20:35:48 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 20:36:31 PCL was my first contact with lisp, then Touretzky's and david lambkin's (almost in parallel) 20:37:21 for some odd reason I really like reading cltl(2) despite its dry format! 20:37:44 francogrex: dry! bite your tongue! 20:37:55 there are 3 to 7 laughs per page 20:37:56 lamkin by the way 20:38:05 lambkin is a fiction author 20:38:23 so google tells me anyway 20:38:32 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:38:32 Guthur: lamkin is also incorrect. the author of Successful Lisp is David Lamkins. 20:38:47 Xach: I like mostly those parenthesis: X3J13 voted in March 1989... 20:39:05 Okay i'm going to read On Lisp :) 20:39:22 It has a good section on macros I hear 20:39:24 Miesco: Why did you visit for advice if you were just going to throw it out the window? 20:39:35 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:37 Xach, indeed, everyone seems to get that wrong 20:39:44 Xach: I wanted to see a broader picture 20:40:33 broad picture of two books by the same author on the same subject? 20:42:12 Guthur: Whos the author? 20:42:22 wait 20:42:44 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:47 Paul Graham 20:43:07 I just spent the last 10 hours reading his essays 20:43:40 Is essay where in fact one of the first things I read about lisp 20:44:07 Miesco: If you want to learn Common Lisp well, I don't recommend starting with his books. 20:44:17 And i did have ANSI for a while, it's ok but I personally got more from PCL 20:44:32 Is/His 20:44:51 Well I dont want to use Lisp, I just want to learn it 20:45:05 good luck with that 20:45:08 you can't learn it without using 20:45:10 Well, that sounds lovely. 20:45:46 I heard it will make you a better programmer (actually I might use it) 20:47:05 Is his thoery true about programming languages becoming more like lisp? 20:47:10 ok Miesco ok... (rolls eyes) 20:47:16 You make yourself a better programmer by learning to approach things differently. Lisp adds a little structure to thinking differently but you still have to do the work 20:48:43 http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html 20:48:47 I think the reason lisp makes you a better programmer is because it places few constraints on how you solve a problem and consequently forces you to choose the correct approach. 20:48:47 *francogrex* wonders if someone has actually learned and used lisp and then said to himself "well now that I have worked with the best, let me go back to the mediocre systems" 20:49:26 *Guthur* has to do that everyday 20:49:30 "profound enlightenment when you finally get it" thats all I want 20:49:33 Miesco: I got into Lisp because of Paul Graham's essays, but the more I learned, the less the Lisp I like is like what he wrote about in his essays. 20:49:41 we use C# and Java mostly 20:49:46 In other languages with tighter constraints on the programming paradigm, I think a lot of time is wasted figuring out how to express the problem using the language. 20:50:33 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host142-185-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:50:37 in Lisp we waste time writing utility libraries 20:50:55 Miesco: You won't get it by reading ANSI Common Lisp or On Lisp. You'll get it over the course of several years by applying it to your problem. In fact, I doubt anyone ever "gets it" in totality. 20:51:15 Guthur: it's not because you don't want to use lisp, it's becauise your work environment obliges you to use something else (or in addition) 20:51:22 Xach, But your utilities libraries saves me from wasting a lot of time 20:51:24 Xach: Well, duh, that's because all previous ones suck. :-P 20:51:26 *Guthur* nods at quicklisp 20:53:05 Is it really better to not distinguish between statements and expressions? 20:53:11 like perl does 20:53:33 definitely 20:56:04 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:16 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:35 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:56:54 So lisp is the only elegant language and the algon derived ones are limited ones? 20:57:44 Like if I learn lisp will I never go back to other languages? 20:57:56 Miesco: it's a well-known phenomenon. 20:58:07 Miesco: there is a high risk of becoming cripplingly smug. 20:58:12 Miesco: That's not my point. It's not about elegance, it's about language constraints. There are instances where constraints on the language are desireable. 21:00:04 Okay thanks. I'm gunna go read more (on Lisp) I feel like im doing too much talking and not enough reading. 21:00:46 Or too much reading and not enough programming. 21:01:00 minion: chant 21:01:04 danishman [~x@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:01:12 MORE ON LISP 21:01:13 *tmh* feels lost without minion. 21:01:31 Miesco: Start here -> http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and work the examples. 21:02:56 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:12 great.. since I learned about it, every time someone says "MORE " I recall this about Recorde: "In another book, /Whetstone of Witte/, published in 1557, he introduced the equals sign (=), as he put it, `bicause noe 2 thynges can be moare equalle' than two parallel lines of the same length." MOARE EQUALLE 21:04:14 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 21:04:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-167-55.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:04:54 Whats with this channel and not spelling correctly 21:05:11 I'm starting to think its on purpose 21:05:16 "it's" 21:05:17 Recorde was Welsh, represent! o/ 21:05:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:05:42 Miesco: what do you think is misspelt? 21:05:46 It's just francogrex. 21:06:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:16 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:08:39 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:09:08 oh man 21:09:18 noe 2 thynges can be moare equalle 21:09:21 too good, that 21:10:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:16 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-117-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:51 *francogrex* pround to be a bad speller, anti-conformist 21:13:44 I'm still spell better than Chaucer 21:14:21 youndergrex? 21:16:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:01 francogrex: I don't expect you to learn to spell. I learned long ago to interpret what you post. 21:17:02 Out of the develes ers ther gonne dryve 21:17:37 tmh: let's blame it on the azerty keyboard 21:18:06 Exactly. 21:21:19 -!- danishman [~x@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:36 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:10 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-189-59.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:52 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.21.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:09 iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has joined #lisp 21:28:11 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-191-173.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:33 froydnj: if someone gave ironclad careful clisp love, do you think it might get significantly faster? 21:29:11 froydnj: i'm working on pgp signature validation and it's taking 35 seconds to compute the sha1 digest of the lispbuilder tarball :~( 21:30:06 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-82.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:31:49 abcl is ~3x faster. go abcl 21:31:51 ! 21:32:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-8-92.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has left #lisp 21:32:56 YAY!!! 21:33:00 this is a great day! 21:33:16 being mentioned on the right side of at least 2 comparisons on a single day. 21:33:43 ehu: well, sbcl is 100x faster than abcl, but still...abcl's not the worst, woo! 21:33:52 hehe. 21:34:13 ccl is slower than i expected at 6 seconds. 21:34:14 sbcl is no comparison for ABCL and won't be until abcl develops the same level of inference 21:34:31 and gets really smart about its boxing 21:34:52 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:34:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.3] 21:34:59 well, clisp is a perl-like implementation 21:35:10 *Xach* wonders about adding some kind of progress bar: "Validating archive, please wait...[if you used SBCL you would be done by now]..." 21:35:27 its devs expect you to write C for performance 21:37:45 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-117-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:37:48 fe[nl]ix: ?? 21:37:53 heh 21:37:56 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:02 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-117-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:08 fe[nl]ix: Lisp is not like perl language 21:38:19 Posterdati: note he said "perl-like implementation" 21:38:31 Posterdati: that's why he wrote "clisp" and not "Lisp" 21:38:32 thanks antifuchs :) 21:38:34 Posterdati: in terms of performance characteristics, clisp is (: 21:39:02 hmm, allegro cl is also slower than i expected at 7.3 seconds. 21:39:15 though I eagerly anticipate the day Sam and Bruno introduce a $_ variable (; 21:39:29 Xach: hum. 21:39:30 Xach: I'm going to use Lisp for numerical analysis :) 21:39:58 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 21:40:01 Xach: especially for solving circuits 21:40:02 Xach: you know what they say: if you build it, they will optimize (-: 21:40:07 it makes some sense, though. clisp has by far the richest set of extensions to the standard among open source CLs 21:40:44 antifuchs: doesn't their c-lispy code already have that? I mean Some special variable like ECL has? @@{lisp-var-name} 21:40:47 antifuchs: i hope so. 21:40:56 ehu: haha, I didn't know that 21:42:00 Xach: sbcl is a good enough competitor that I'm sure other implementations will scramble to catch up (: 21:42:33 well I think that Lisp is a different beast: a language for computer scientists with strong mathematics roots 21:42:48 Posterdati: did you mamange with the matrix algebra? 21:42:51 elegant, precise and direct to the problem 21:42:55 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:43:01 francogrex: not yet 21:43:23 *francogrex* lives up to his reputation: s/mamange/manage 21:43:27 antifuchs: I'm sure these days that's much more true than before; before, you'd be inhibited by the lack of windowing libraries on non-commercial lisps. 21:43:42 however, in the day of the webbrowser, you don't need that anymore. 21:44:20 maybe Turing would love Lisp :) 21:44:24 Somelauw [~anonymous@031-214-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #lisp 21:44:52 francogrex: I'm going to study maxima interface tomorrow and after Christmas 21:46:11 ehu: exactly 21:46:14 knobo [~user@ti0073a340-1561.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:46:21 ehu: there are still plenty of people who rely on this stuff (: 21:46:33 right. me. 21:46:42 I wish I didn't though 21:47:10 but it was great to recompile my application after 8 years and see it still works ! 21:48:09 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:48:10 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-117-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:56 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-117-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:33 francogrex: could you help me? 21:49:55 ehu: (-: 21:50:12 francogrex: I'd like to bother you tomorrow :) thanks 21:50:25 I think compose should be a builtin function. 21:50:26 ehu: you and me, man. but even at its worst, gui programming in lisp isn't as horrible as I remember it from other environments (: 21:50:32 bye ppl goodnight :) I'm going to balance weasels on a rake :) 21:50:57 I'm struggling really hard to understand what logic is :S 21:51:12 Somelauw: I think it shouldn' 21:51:16 Dmsy [~somebody@d073114.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 21:51:27 Why not? 21:51:53 Somelauw: but is this opinion relevant? 21:51:55 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:51 Well, I want to use that function in multiple programs. 21:53:19 Should I make a module for it? Or should I create a keyboard shortcut to write that function each time. 21:53:29 Somelauw: it's in alexandria 21:53:34 http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria 21:53:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-247.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 and alexandria is available via quicklisp 21:53:50 both are very useful 21:55:00 Is there a CL proxy server per chance? 21:55:01 Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:19 Guthur: I think I lisppasted one using hunchentoot & drakma a while ago 21:55:27 (it's not a very good proxy server, though) 21:55:41 cool, how long ago 21:55:44 (just enough to let me sniff some https content) 21:55:49 must have been 3 years or so ((-: 21:55:52 Okay, I will check them out. 21:56:06 So far I think I prefer scheme over common lisp. 21:56:17 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 21:56:31 well, wait until you've seen quicklisp (-: 21:57:45 I was considering a drakma/hunchentoot combo 21:58:06 Posterdati: ok i'll try to help if I can 21:58:27 Guthur: it works (: 21:58:38 hehe I actually managed to find your paste, i think 21:58:51 3 years, 7 months ago 21:58:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/40555 22:01:50 CL probably has tons of libraries. 22:02:06 I will check out quicklisp. 22:04:03 Guthur: exactly that (: 22:04:11 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:05:36 antifuchs, cheers 22:05:44 have fun (: 22:06:29 I shall, hehe 22:07:20 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:25 later though, I need to look at parenscripts compiler for a bit 22:07:52 if that's what it's called 22:08:11 Which linux distro to people use? I'm installing VirtualBox for testing stuff on Linux and want to use whatever most Lisp people are using. 22:08:22 the Free one 22:08:46 i use arch 22:09:52 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:11:39 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:14:09 I use archlinux nowadays.. I like it. 22:14:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:15 I'd say arch's best feature is AUR 22:17:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:18:02 It's really easy to just add and share a new package 22:20:30 I use a dual boot winxp/puppy-linux; but I am almost sure I'm the only one to do that here 22:21:23 *fds* uses Debian 22:21:35 But, I'm not sure if I'm a `Lisp person' :-s 22:21:41 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 22:22:09 I use ubuntu. I'm a lisp person, but not really a linux person ;) 22:26:04 Phoodus: I don't think anyone here is much of a linux person, unfortunately there really isn't anything better 22:26:24 and making one is a lot of work 22:28:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-247.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:14 I wish I had time for hacking together a kernel 22:28:34 not that it would be any use to anyone, not even me 22:28:47 fun though 22:28:48 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:55 Guthur: the real trouble is getting it to support real hardware 22:29:17 yeah, hence it not being much use 22:31:06 I guess one could always use linux underneath 22:31:22 or on top... 22:31:44 no wait for hardware 22:32:05 sorry I was only have concentrating, that was my idea for the software 22:32:07 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:21 I never quite understood why hardware such as network cards needs to be different and needs different drivers 22:34:08 there is some unified driver project 22:34:21 I think it's not going very well though 22:34:56 can't remember the name 22:36:40 my real question is, why aren't the network cards essentially the same? 22:36:57 i mean, how different can your run of the mill ethernet card be? 22:37:03 I think it's called competition, hehe 22:37:08 are they different just for the sake of being different? 22:37:10 how different can x86 and arm be? 22:37:23 eslick [~eslick@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:26 I mean, they're cpus, they do the same thing 22:37:48 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-220.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:45 Phoodus: I agree 22:39:07 I mean, they can work differently and all, but i don't see any good reason why the intruction set should be different 22:39:17 O_o 22:39:52 I would love to be educated on why that is necessary 22:40:12 it's one thing for a car to have a compatible interface of steering wheel, gas pedal, etc. It's another thing for it to have drop-in compatible pistons with another car 22:40:34 the hardware is the low-level bits 22:40:41 Phoodus: I'm not saying they should have compatible pistons 22:40:50 there's no abstraction on the hardware; it's the software's job to do so 22:40:59 I'm just saying that from the point of view of the programmer of the cpu 22:41:09 I don't see a good reason why it should be different 22:41:28 they all share the same basic idea of what a cpu is 22:41:50 if a cpu has more registers than another one, then what? 22:42:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Driver_Interface 22:42:15 had to go to #osdev to get that, hehe 22:42:29 drdo: really, a JVM or something like that gives you what you want 22:42:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:36 Phoodus: That's a very superficial difference 22:43:53 that's the level at which instruction sets work with 22:44:04 if you demand equivalent instruction sets, that seriously constrains CPU design 22:44:29 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 22:44:59 Phoodus: I'm not suggesting that there should be an instruction set set in stone 22:45:07 just that they should all be the same? 22:45:13 I'm mostly ranting about x86 22:47:32 I mean, if we are going down the CISC route, why even have software? 22:47:42 cpu cost and efficiency 22:47:52 some things are better handled by hardware, some by software 22:47:58 -!- Somelauw [~anonymous@031-214-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:48:14 I don't know how good transmeta's chips ended up being, but I sort of remember they weren't very competitive 22:48:34 and it's not really risc vs cisc 22:48:56 it's that instruction sets reflect a CPU, instead of having a compatibility layer in hardware 22:49:03 hence incompatible instruction sets 22:49:50 pnq [~nick@AC8109AD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:07 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 22:51:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 22:51:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:51:35 drdo: I find it hard to believe that you ask this question seriously.. can you imagine designing new hardware in order to write "hello world"? 22:52:04 drdo: or every time you wanted to come up with new functionality 22:52:23 adeht: that is exactly my point 22:52:29 it's retarded 22:52:41 It's the case against CISC 22:52:42 drdo: with CISC the direction is from software to hardware, not the opposite 22:53:12 adeht: Exactly, which is one of the reasons i think it's a bad idea 22:53:13 I thought your point was "Why can't all CPUs be binary compatible?" 22:53:37 The ultimate CISC is not having software at all 22:54:03 cisc doesn't mean cisc anymore 22:54:06 risc are just as complex 22:54:23 the only distinction is whether it's a load/store model (risc) or rmw model (cisc) 22:54:27 drdo: your error is that you take a practical idea and take it into a logical extreme 22:54:38 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:45 and in that sense, load/store tends to be much more effective with today 22:54:48 's tradeoffs 22:55:11 drdo: and also, you missed my point.. software is being written all the time 22:55:18 -!- Dmsy [~somebody@d073114.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:55:37 drdo: the CISC people don't come up with instructions in a vacuum, the instructions solve an already existing problem 22:56:37 ARM chips are obviously better and you should all stop using those crappy x86 immediately 22:56:47 *Guthur* is an ARM shareholder, hehe 22:57:09 and not just an existing problem, but those which are common, routinely require lots of instructions to perform, and are cost-effective to put into silicon 22:57:27 but things should probably turn more Lispy 22:57:50 *Phoodus* is still waiting for bazillion-ARM-cores-in-a-box servers 22:58:01 and 64-bit wouldn't hurt ;) 22:58:14 Phoodus, apparently ARM servers are on the horizon 22:58:17 I know 22:58:26 and the MS rumour? 22:58:38 which MS romor 22:58:41 rumor? 22:58:41 Windows coming to ARM 22:58:45 in Jan 22:59:12 most likely the Win7 Mobile edition 22:59:15 I wouldn't be surprised if they've been maintaining various windows ports over the years, like Apple has done with x86 long before they started suporting it 22:59:46 Windows CE probably ran on ARM 22:59:50 it did 23:00:23 and PocketPC and HandheldPC, and all the other mobile Windowses over the years 23:00:39 were they not all based of CE 23:00:45 PocketPC was 23:01:07 hmm, I think my Jornada 720 was ARM 23:01:14 MIPS was in the mix back then, too 23:01:44 but SBCL isn't supported for ARM yet :( 23:03:05 handheld PC was CE as well 23:03:15 it wasn't called "Windows CE" 23:03:31 maybe not but it was CE 23:03:46 oh wait you mean the family name 23:04:00 Windows Embedded Compact 23:04:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-204-85.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:32 There is company selling really cheap MIPS laptops, i wanted one until i found out they don't ship here 23:04:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-220.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:26 ah, my mistake. Windows HPC2000 was a "Windows CE" variant, so they had that brand name longer than I thought 23:05:34 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:05:34 -!- escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:18 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:06:59 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:09:29 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 23:09:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 23:09:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:09:36 merry xmas lispers 23:10:47 stilll the 23rd here... 23:10:52 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see] 23:11:23 That's something else i don't understand 23:12:26 Why a lot of countries that supposedly don't have an official religion have these national holidays 23:12:40 because their populace celebrates it 23:13:08 regardless of religios affiliation 23:14:25 I think it's funny when people think they remove the "religious" artifacts of christmas decor, by taking out the christian symbolism, but leave the pagan symbols up for show 23:15:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-3-18.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:41 Phoodus: What are pagan symbols? 23:16:45 abm [~chatzilla@ip68-227-28-42.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-86.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:17:36 afai, the christmas tree, garland, etc 23:17:51 Phoodus: My real issue is that a country shouldn't acknowledge these days as special 23:18:03 What each person does is their own bussiness 23:18:48 drdo: I very much agree. We have a lot of "christian" holidays in sweden. easter, xmas, etc. 23:19:02 drdo: I feel they should all be removed. Would save the employers of this country a fortune too. 23:19:25 what about political holidays, or social holidays? 23:19:38 Phoodus: such as? 23:19:43 Hmm, politics & religion. It must be happy hour. I'll have a scotch, neat. 23:19:54 drdo: Actually there is some talk about changing these rules and giving people like a pool of "holiday days" and you can use 'em for whatever holiday floats your boat. Like I'd go with the EU day being a holiday, while some others might go with the month of ramadan. 23:19:59 such as (here in the USA), independence day, memorial day, mother's day, etc 23:20:14 international worker's day is a political holiday here. 23:20:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20:25 schmx: I'm pretty sure everyone would pick a month over a day :P 23:20:28 yeah, "labor day" here 23:20:38 and I think the "national day" is a political holiday too. 23:20:49 Oh yes, "labour day", we have something like that here too 23:20:55 I think it should go 23:21:09 "Celebrate the fact you have a job by taking the day off" 23:21:13 Actually, i think there's a deeper issue 23:21:32 There is too much control over what constitutes employment 23:21:36 schmx: what about Midsommarnatt? :) 23:21:42 adeht: That's a holiday? 23:22:00 schmx: a traditional holiday, is it not? 23:22:09 adeht: I have no idea. I never celebrated it. 23:22:18 I think older people people see the world fundamentally differently from what i do 23:22:19 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:22:27 schmx: I have, but only as a tourist ;) 23:22:28 It's the 23rd, I'm celebrating Festivus. So, Merry Festivus! 23:22:38 drdo: I'm inclined to believe that all people see the world fundamentally different from all other people (: 23:22:42 That idea that was being thrown around of "Global Village" 23:22:50 drdo: I think the question is, it is beneficial to have acknowledged, societal traditions of unity? 23:22:53 I've always thought of the world like that 23:23:16 because that's really what holidays are. "Everybody step back and let's all remember X" 23:23:31 Phoodus: seems very beneficial for creating identities (: 23:23:42 Several of you are also celebrating Festivus without even realizing it with your "Airing of Grievances". 23:23:55 I actually wrote a big paper on creating national identities through holidays. 23:23:56 Phoodus: What X's do we choose? 23:24:14 you mean what X's have we already chosen? 23:24:43 This raises another question 23:24:47 much of it has to do with general societal momentum than anything else 23:25:02 if something becomes popular, it becomes acknowledged 23:25:11 Why is it the case that just the fact of being born in a country gives you automatic membership? 23:25:23 adeht: From what I understand midsommar is the celebration of fish and getting drunk. And not being an alcohol user I always found it extremely boring :) 23:25:48 drdo: that's international law that makes that a fact (: 23:26:17 and national too, of course 23:26:19 I think in the future we will look back and laugh at the people in this age because they live in countries 23:26:33 Like we laugh at how people used to live in tribes 23:26:40 we do? 23:26:45 People still do live in tribes. 23:26:50 -!- pinkwerks [2679e0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.224.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:26:53 I don't see much difference beetween tribes & nations 23:27:03 Phoodus: It's only a matter of scale 23:27:09 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-21-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:12 and that sort of thing seems to be pretty hardwired in humans 23:27:18 actually, let's say two things. One: I don't laugh at how people used to live in tribes. Two: this is viciously off-topic, so please stop it 23:27:40 Happy Festivus, Krystof. 23:27:42 schmx: well, what about the part where many people go to the countryside, sing swedish folk songs (in the case of sweden), put up bonfires (if it's not raining), etc. 23:28:04 and a happy new decade to you, tmh 23:29:36 adeht: That's midsommar!? 23:29:53 adeht: I thought midsommar was the one where we put a huge penis in the ground and danced around it pretending to be frogs. 23:29:58 plage` [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:30:09 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:55 schmx: and what can be "extremely boring" about that? :) 23:31:15 Scratch what said then, sticking a huge penis in the ground and dancing around it pretending to be a frog sounds like a good idea 23:31:20 *i said 23:31:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-21-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:20 adeht: I kinda don't see the fun part. And if you're above age 13 you're supposed to get insanely drunk. Which makes it even less fun. 23:32:26 schmx: this doesn't have anything to do with girls picking up some 3 kinds of flowers and putting them under their pillows, does it 23:32:40 huh dunno nothing about that. 23:33:48 schmx: I think the belief was that if they do that, the boy they'd dream of will become their husband in the future or something like that 23:34:50 adeht: Ok. You're the expert so I'll believe whatever you say here :) 23:35:44 ok . so day 4 with C#, and what I can say is that if the only problem people have with lisp is OMG PARENS! and loop isn't lispy enough... I have no idea how they ever survive doing anything else >< 23:36:12 people are stupid 23:36:29 I don't have all that much experience with C#, but it's certainly nicer than Java 23:36:33 warzl: are you included in this group "people"? 23:36:35 90% of programmers need to be fired 23:36:55 Phoodus: Really? I was being told yesterday that the two languages were pretty much identical (: 23:36:58 90% of programmers are their industry's equivalent of burger flippers 23:37:05 C# is better than Java 23:37:14 right, C# is basically a "java done better" but still a java derivative 23:37:17 but that's like being smarter than a retard 23:37:25 lol 23:37:27 -!- simias [~simias@2001:41d0:1:ae71::1] has left #lisp 23:37:49 -!- Miesco [~mugsy@76-10-183-219.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:38:20 I don't find it all that bad really. But it seems to be a lot of typing to get some sugar, and one really understands how nice CLOS is when one has no CLOS (: 23:38:38 try using C# for a year 23:38:50 it will be that bad 23:38:54 Krystof, The decade surely started at '10 23:39:16 warzl: oh I won't (: 23:39:25 lucky 23:39:36 warzl: I'm going the F# route (: 23:39:37 the only thing worse than C-style languages 23:39:38 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:43 are C-style programmers 23:39:45 holy god 23:39:53 I think the main problem with such languages is not that they don't have X or Y feature 23:40:04 The main problem is that it is not possible to add them 23:40:08 put the two together and you have an infinitely recursing nightmare 23:40:18 X or Y features, is that genetic programming? 23:40:21 drdo: I will agree there. 23:40:35 Guthur: no, it's chromosomal programming :-P 23:40:39 it's programming with training wheels 23:40:42 Guthur: like you told me "just wait till you want a macro :( :(" (: 23:40:48 (c-style languages, that is) 23:41:08 coding for retards and children 23:41:10 warzl: training wheels make bike-riding easier 23:41:17 dull edged so noone hurts themselves 23:41:19 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has left #lisp 23:41:22 c-style programming languages don't make programming easier 23:41:23 schmx, yeah, it happens sooner than you think, hehe 23:41:32 Guthur: the Julian calendar doesn't have a zero year 23:41:33 ya, but at some point you need to take the training wheels off 23:41:38 but they never do 23:41:47 Guthur: oh that already happened (: 23:41:49 then peolple like me get stuck with training wheels on 23:41:56 while trying to ride a motorcycle 23:41:57 adeht, Well Julian obviously wasn't a programmer 23:42:19 I'm glad I started with assembler, but never got caught in "everything must always be low level!" 23:42:42 Phoodus, that's probably because you're capable of abstract thought 23:42:44 Such assertions get really funny really fast 23:42:44 Phoodus: That's a funny way to go too. What's with all the "look I wrote an OS all in assembly" anyway?! 23:42:56 most programmers aren't 23:43:02 they just follow rules and recipes 23:43:07 Why stop at assembly? Just pick up a a butterfly 23:43:08 Guthur: why not? maybe he conquered Gaul using a Pascal program? 23:43:27 warzl: yeah, that's the biggest distinguisher of human capability, not just programming 23:43:45 people can't abstract their financial behavior, business decisions, social actions, etc 23:43:50 much less programming 23:44:03 drdo: Why stop at a butterfly? 23:44:08 schmx: Exactly 23:44:11 :) 23:44:14 That's why it's funny 23:44:21 drdo: I didn't. I started with assembly ;) 23:44:25 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:25 I can abstract my financial behaviour, I use a credit card 23:44:35 drdo: http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ (: 23:44:58 Guthur: better not be a visa or mastercard (: 23:45:02 I'm not so sure about the whole "other people are dumb" argument 23:45:14 nor was I 23:45:15 I think humans are overall pretty dumb 23:45:19 all of us 23:45:24 but eventually, all other possibilities were exhausted 23:45:32 drdo: it's "Only a small percentage of people have skills in this particular field" 23:45:55 but snarked up with "Because they can't do this particular thing well, they're stupid" 23:46:00 And the difference between how smart the smartest human is and the dumbest one 23:46:11 Is negligible when you consider how dumb we are overall 23:46:37 The smartest human on the planet is no more of a threat to me than the smartest termite 23:46:52 Why don't you guys take this conversation to #lispcafe? 23:47:16 oops, didn't know about that one 23:47:18 *joins 23:47:34 we're talking about programming languages, honest! 23:47:54 The off-topic police is reinforcing its ranks 23:49:04 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-61-48-239.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:51:19 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 23:54:19 where is all the consing in the 2nd test-fun-2 coming from? http://paste.lisp.org/display/118012 23:54:34 is it possible for a :before method to return nil and have it not fall through to the actual method? 23:54:56 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:54:58 or conversely, is it possible for a primary method to choose not to trigger the :after method without an alternate method combination? 23:55:32 francogrex: collect? 23:56:10 drdo: the collect in the stepper function? 23:56:14 yes 23:56:20 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 23:56:31 At least that was my immediate thought, could be wrong 23:56:44 stepper builds a list 23:56:57 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:14 yan_: for the first question, you can use :around instead 23:57:21 dunno abotu the latter 23:57:50 hmm I see but by itself it isn't consing as can be seen in (time (stepper *mylist* 3)) 23:57:50 23:58:59 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp