00:00:17 when it breaks I list the local variable, all seem ok 00:00:44 except this #:G24 = NIL which I have no idea where it is coming from 00:05:10 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:11 Yeah, those optimizations are OK. Finding an error like yours can take some time in my experience. I try to add asserts, check-types, etc in order to avoid that such errors propagate too far. 00:05:22 DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-76-188-181-37.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:19 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-176-173.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 00:06:30 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:42 plage: got it! here it was: my code was doing this: ... (loop ... :for byte :of-type '(unsigned-byte 16) := (read-byte input-stream nil nil) ... 00:07:17 at some point (read-byte input-stream nil nil) was evaluating to nil! 00:08:12 jesus, it took so long to spot this. plage thanks for suggestion 00:09:05 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-nzqoevkduvthkllq] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:12:57 hrm... :( no :after methods on + method combination? 00:13:11 Bah. I am hitting the limits of what one can do with plain text and minimal markup. 00:13:23 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-174-237.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 00:13:29 slyrus: I'm not even sure what that would mean. 00:13:50 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:13:56 gigamonkey: add the values of all of the + methods, then call any :after methods? 00:14:46 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:16:11 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-239.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:14 I'm trying to use slime-load-system, but i'm getting a swank error: "Invalid protocol message".. i cd'ed into my proj directory, and there's an .asd file there.. am i missing something obvious? 00:17:02 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 00:17:22 I guess :after methods normally can't affect the return value. So that makes sense. 00:17:28 Oh well. You can write your own method combination. 00:17:32 heh 00:18:05 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-70.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 00:19:05 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:25 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:20:05 francogrex: Sure, no problem. Glad you found the problem. It might not be a good idea to call read-byte like that if you don't ever want NIL to be returned though. 00:21:33 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:04 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:00 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:26:00 OK 00:26:03 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:10 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 00:30:34 grfrblshntz [~smee@71-90-118-181.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:39 -!- grfrblshntz [~smee@71-90-118-181.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:40:09 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BE08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:30 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:03 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.151.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:45:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.255.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:52 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.144.45] has joined #lisp 00:49:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:49:52 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-45-202.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:54 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:50:34 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:53 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA28C5C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:08 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:42 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:54:58 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:55:15 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has left #lisp 00:57:20 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:02:01 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F5E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:03:52 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 01:07:19 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:07:57 pnq [~nick@AC817DA0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:34 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:43 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-70.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:16 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 01:21:00 pnq1 [~nick@ACA3C291.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:08 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-50-207.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:16 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:20 fnordus [~dnall@S01060023693bfad4.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:15 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-190-203.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:20 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:22:39 -!- pnq [~nick@AC817DA0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:22:43 gigamonkey: I'm not sure I like the choice of :reader/:writer as that conflicts with defclass' own :reader/:writer concepts, which are distinct from the notions embodied in serializing the binary data 01:22:48 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 01:25:51 Is there a function already in CL (or anyone have a good name for this) that's like map but takes an arg that says which items in the collection to map the function to? Like (update-list :first inc '(1 2 3)) => (2 2 3) or (update-list :butlast dec '(1 2 3)) => (0 1 3) 01:27:03 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 01:28:48 BoOleeN [~BoOleeN@ARouen-551-1-30-27.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:29:37 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:29:39 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:54 hello ! 01:30:07 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-20-229.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:51 -!- BoOleeN [~BoOleeN@ARouen-551-1-30-27.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:58 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-50-207.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:30:58 scottj: nothing springs to mind. 01:32:14 scottj: map-subsequence? 01:33:32 tcr, I like map-subseq 01:34:48 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:34:52 slyrus: True, at least at the level of names. Are you running into some kind of actual conflict?. 01:35:18 :inner/:outer ;-) 01:35:19 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:31 In the grand tradition of INCH and OUCH 01:35:52 well, I'd like to have a (in the defclass sense) :reader for a slot that shouldn't be touched via (setf ( ...)) 01:36:42 but the binary-data machinery is creating the :accessor for me anyway... 01:37:31 Yeah. That may have just been laziness on my part. 01:37:40 redline6561 [~redline@c-24-126-240-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:53 I think what I _really_ want is some MOP machinery to provide a richer mechanism for specifying the binary-data attributes inside of otherwise normal-ish defclass forms 01:38:30 slyrus: yeah. That's probably the right way to go. I did have some pedagogical constraints to satisfy when I wrote that code. 01:38:45 hello 01:39:13 But I'm not sure I'd want normal defclass forms. The big win of define-binary-class, et al. is that they are quite concise--parens around the spec kinds of concise. 01:39:31 But they could be sugar over some defclass with various bits of moppery. 01:39:33 heh... shades of defclass* 01:39:34 *billitch* posted http://b.lowh.net/billitch/2010/12/21/149-define-structure-with-dotted-accessors-for-common-lisp 01:39:51 i wonder what #lisp would think of these 01:40:37 gigamonkey: I think the abbreviated class definition forms and the specification for a binary-data class should be orthogonal 01:40:54 *tcr* uses multiple-value-call for fun & profit 01:41:01 I also think I should go in search of dinner and home 01:44:35 *tcr* notices that he doesn't usually use slime's retry restart, but rather quits out of debugger, and M-p RET at the REPL 01:44:48 tcr: i have recently started to use the retry restart 01:44:54 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-24-126-240-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:58 after N years 01:45:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:46:17 redline6561 [~redline@c-24-126-240-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:56 *tcr* will disclose some cool teclo pr0n soon, powered by multiple-value-call 01:49:28 nice 01:49:57 petercoulton_ [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:00 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:50:14 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:43 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:54:13 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:57:47 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 01:57:48 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:03 SYSTEM_ARMED [~null@ppp-70-128-102-247.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:15 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:00:43 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:01:09 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:46 -!- qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has left #lisp 02:10:21 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 02:11:44 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 02:13:38 SB-MOP:CLASS-SLOTS called on #, which is not yet finalized. 02:14:01 anyone seen that error with CLSQL 5.2.0 on SBCL 1.0.44.gentoo-r0? 02:16:05 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-24-126-240-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:35 jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:31 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:22:37 -!- sellout [~greg@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:24:29 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:25:24 DarthShrine_ [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 02:25:24 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:25 -!- DarthShrine_ is now known as DarthShrine 02:28:05 Is there any implementation out there where declaring the type of a variable for a function and then calling that function with an arg of the wrong type reduces robustness (in the face of declared/actual type mismatches) instead of enhancing it (like SBCL that has a "declarations as assertions" policy)? 02:28:44 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@67.143.83.128] has joined #lisp 02:28:45 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@67.143.83.128] has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:08 Hexstream: SBCL, with complex enough types or low enough safety. 02:29:20 Hexstream: depends on safety 02:29:25 Default safety. 02:29:48 a function type would probably be enough in some cases, for instance. 02:29:51 I don't muck around with that because it's scares me ;P I don't go so far as to put safety to 3, however. 02:31:15 What's the difference between declaring the ftype of a function and declaring the type of the arguments at the start of the body of the function? 02:31:33 the latter allows redefinition of the types 02:32:03 .... The former doesn't? 02:32:11 (lambda (x) (declare (type (function () fixnum) x)) (logand 7 (funcall x))) has interesting effects. 02:33:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:33 Hexstream: The latter allows the compiler to use that information internally while compiling that function (intra-procedurally), the former alows the compiler to use that information also at call sites (inter-procedurally) 02:34:14 tcr: Ah damn, nice! Declaring type doesn't sound as mortally boring as it used to anymore! 02:34:37 Hexstream: *derive-function-types* might be useful. 02:36:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:05 felideon [~felideon@adsl-32-178-70.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:15 Cool, but for now I try to stay away from implementation-specific stuff. Even if I only use SBCL in practice. 02:38:17 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:38:57 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 02:39:39 What do you guys think about Kernel's vau? 02:40:48 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:42:23 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:49 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:10 -!- kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:45:38 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:08 If I define a function and a compiler-macro for it, then compile a call to the function in another file, then change the definition of the function and its compiler-macro, what happens when I execute the code that calls the function again (without recompiling the file)? I guess this is like for normal macros? I'll get the old (now wrong) behavior? 02:46:39 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:46:49 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:46:58 Hexstream: maybe, maybe not. 02:48:03 Ok. So I guess an implementation might or might not decide to generate a check in the code and maybe downgrade to the new unoptimized version or somehow recompile the code (a bit funky)? 02:49:03 sure, but it's more that compiler macro may or may not be expanded. 02:49:29 Yes, of course. But I guess they're expanded in most implementations. 02:49:47 depends on a lot of things. 02:50:24 kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:18 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:53:10 Using APPLY automatically precludes compiler-macro expansion, right? Except maybe in highly simplistic cases like (apply #'my-fun '(1 2 3)). 02:53:39 Hexstream: not necessarily. 02:53:52 I think we had something for (apply 'foo ... (list ...)) 02:54:32 Hexstream: but really, what it comes to is 1) it's implementation dependant. 2) if you change the function or the compiler-macro, then recompile all the code that use it! 02:54:40 Well, all the arguments in the list would have to be constant or something.. 02:55:02 pjb: Yeah. Sounds like the defensive and defensible thing to do. 02:55:46 Thanks for the info. Bye. 02:55:47 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:58:32 i've just started learning lisp (picolisp), and was a bit confused by the distinctions between car, cdr, caar, cadr, cadar, etc... 02:58:40 so i made this diagram: http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5907/picolispcar2.png 02:59:12 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:59:18 and, a bit more complicated.. http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1603/picolispfiveelementlist.png 02:59:20 pattern: pretty good, though Gentle Introduction has pretty good chapter on CAR/CDR 03:00:05 thanks, i'll check it out 03:00:13 i was just going by one of the picolisp tutorials.. 03:00:19 and it was a bit confusing 03:01:19 car and cdr are easy enough to understand 03:01:40 but what all the other combinations meant was not intuitively explained 03:04:40 (caar x) = (car (car x)) , (cddr x) = (cdr (cdr x)) , (cadr x) = (car (cdr x)) 03:05:09 each 'a' and 'd' just mean a car or a cdr, in that order 03:05:32 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 03:07:12 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-202-190.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:10:48 what about cdar? 03:12:30 same thing 03:12:37 cdr car 03:15:37 it's just kind of weird to think of the last two characters ("ar" or "dr") being the outermost branch, and working progressively inwards in the tree as you move character by character to the left 03:16:01 maybe it's my lifetime of reading left to right that's a stumbling block here.. 03:16:02 Just think of it being a binary tree with an 'a' and a 'd' direction. 03:16:15 pattern: it is left to right 03:17:00 drdo: well, it's written left to right.. but the outermost to innermost progress is from right to left 03:17:11 (if i'm not even more confused than i thought) 03:17:22 the outermost one is the left one 03:17:33 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:17:45 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:17:54 drdo: in this diagram, http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1603/picolispfiveelementlist.png 03:18:12 (caddaar x) = (car (cdr (cdr (car (car x))))) 03:18:12 cdar starts with "d" (written on the left).. but if that was the outermost branch, it would be on the right 03:18:32 right.. the (car x) is the outermost branch 03:18:41 and it's on the right 03:18:45 the outermost one is on the left, the innermost on the right 03:18:51 I don't understand the confusion 03:19:14 drdo: take a look at this diagram, http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1603/picolispfiveelementlist.png 03:19:33 That diagram IS confusing 03:19:42 the outermost branch for cdar is on the left 03:19:57 the outermost branch is simply car 03:20:02 which is on the left 03:20:05 what? 03:20:17 the big red circle in the diagram 03:20:19 that's car 03:20:26 the outermost branch 03:20:30 for cdar 03:21:00 Oh see your confusion, you are thinking about outermost differently 03:21:06 apparently so 03:21:21 there are two main branches in the diagram 03:21:25 the left branch is car 03:21:26 I'm thinking about outermost as in here: (cadr x) = (car (cdr x)) 03:21:28 the right branch is cdr 03:21:39 the car is the outermost in the expression 03:22:04 That's all there is to it 03:22:19 right.. it's written that way 03:22:19 Just think of it as a bunch of car's and cdr's in a row 03:22:26 but the tree actually branches the other way 03:22:44 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 03:22:56 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:06 a bunch of car's and cdr's in a row isn't going to tell me which part of my list i'm going to get 03:23:10 Well, that's your choice of how to think about it 03:23:21 by writing it out as a tree, at least i have a chance of knowing which part i'm going to get 03:23:31 I just think about it like i told you 03:23:48 And i suspect that was the thought when people came up with it 03:23:48 pattern: you can also not use these more complicated accessors. 03:23:59 true 03:24:05 Also what pkhuong said, it's very rare to actually use it 03:24:21 specially anything beyond 2 accessors 03:25:03 well, that's a relief 03:25:19 guess i don't need to start drawing even larger trees.. 03:26:01 pattern: lisp is all about programming being easy, reading a bunch of a's and d's in a row and reasoning about it isn't easy 03:26:28 it sure isn't... that's why i tried to diagram it out 03:26:31 I rarely see anything other than car, cdr, and cadr. Every once in a while, I see caddr, cadddr, ... instead of third, fourth, ... 03:26:35 so i'd have some idea of what it all meant 03:27:05 Yeah, car cdr and cadr are the most common 03:27:14 plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 03:27:28 I usually use first, second, third when that's what i actually mean 03:27:30 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.177.244] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:29:29 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29:29 here's another, unrelated question.. 03:29:44 this might be picolisp specific.. i don't know.. i asked in #picolisp, but no one answered 03:29:57 here's what i entered at picolisp's prompt.. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/308226/ 03:30:01 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has joined #lisp 03:30:24 lines 3 and 5 are the same, except that line 3 has an outer set of parenthesis 03:30:49 That's clearly some picolisp madness 03:30:55 why does "(prin (car *bar))" return "123-> (1 2 . 3)" while "prin (car *bar)" return "-> (1 2 . 3)" 03:31:04 and what's the significance of returning "P-> Q" vs "-> Q" ? 03:31:14 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.228.254] has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:35 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:02 unless 03:32:10 picolisp is a lisp-1 03:32:15 in which case 03:32:33 prin (car *bar*) would be two expressions 03:33:24 i don't know.. this is my first day learning lisp and very little makes sense 03:33:24 I can't really say anything, i might be saying crap, i don't know picolisp 03:33:39 see what just "prin" gives you 03:33:41 Why are you using picolisp? 03:33:56 alexsuraci: prin returns "-> 271374" 03:34:26 then yeah, it's not printing it, it's just returning the last expr's value 03:34:36 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-30-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:34:44 also, -> isn't part of the result, it's probably just the repl's indicator for the result of the expr 03:34:59 drdo: what i read about it sounded interesting... for instance: http://www.software-lab.de/doc/faq.html#advantages (and various other stuff on their home page) 03:35:13 alexsuraci: That "123" there still doesn't make much sense to me 03:35:26 i guess that's what (1 2 . 3) gets printed as 03:35:36 pattern: The problem, though, is that you chose picolisp and then come and ask help in a channel that is essentially dedicated to Common Lisp. 03:35:37 turns out my problem was I was using an ancient version of CLSQL not the one I installed via Portage 03:35:38 alexsuraci: but sometimes it will return "P-> Q" and sometimes just "-> Q" 03:35:46 pattern: right, the P is what was printed 03:35:49 sam_ [~chatzilla@140.112.218.83] has joined #lisp 03:36:00 pattern: and the -> following it is the REPL's doing 03:36:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:36:11 plage: well, i asked on #picolisp first.. but no one answered.. thought someone here might know.. didn't know this channel was dedicated to common lisp 03:36:25 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:36:39 maybe i should just learn with common lisp 03:36:44 alexsuraci: Sure, why it would print (car *bar) like that is what i don't get 03:37:00 pattern: That's what I would recommend. Especially if you want help some day. 03:37:35 drdo: yeah, no idea. 03:37:49 guess that's up to `prin' whatever that is 03:38:06 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:38:36 plage: alright.. i'm convinced 03:38:45 i'm not wedded to picolisp 03:39:25 pattern: What is it that you are trying to learn? 03:39:55 lisp 03:40:46 i thought i'd start with picolisp.. but apparently that was not the wisest choice, for an absolute beginner 03:41:29 pattern: are you learning just to learn or learning so you can use it in the wild/for work? 03:41:50 pattern: It is usually best to choose a language with an independent standard, and with several suppliers (free and/or commercial) of implementations. 03:42:44 alexsuraci: not for work.. i'm not a professional programmer... but i could see myself using it on my personal projects, if i like it 03:43:47 pattern: I have had several experiences with languages/dialects where a considerable investment turned out to be worthless because the particular language or dialect stopped being maintained and stopped working on new platforms. 03:44:06 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:39 pattern: Do you know how to program already in some way? 03:44:46 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:43 drdo: yep.. i've been programming (on and off) since 1980.. i've learned (not mastered, by any stretch of the imagination) over a dozen languages in my life 03:45:58 pattern: well, here's a decent starting point just s you know where you are on the Lisp family spectrum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)#Major_dialects 03:46:04 i've been meaning to give lisp a shot for a long time... and looks like i'm finally getting around to it 03:46:07 in particular Scheme is often used for learning 03:46:41 pattern: The fundamental difference of lisp when related to most other languages is that code is data, in a very fundamental way 03:46:48 alexsuraci: That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice though. 03:46:52 pattern: Common Lisp (and Clojure now) is a bit more on the practical/getting-things-done end 03:46:54 drdo: yeah.. i've heard that 03:46:56 plage: I'm not saying that :) 03:47:01 alexsuraci: OK 03:47:14 alexsuraci: you'd recommend starting with scheme rather than common lisp? 03:47:29 pattern: it's up to you, neither are really objectively better 03:47:33 but you may want to try both 03:47:40 yeah.. i'm not looking for the best lisp 03:47:41 if your goal is learning anyway 03:47:42 pattern: I recommend you start right away with Common Lisp. 03:47:46 just the one that's easiest to learn 03:48:15 i figure that once i have the basics, i can move to a more suitable lisp easily enough 03:48:21 (i hope) 03:48:27 pattern: With Scheme, you are likely to get into the same situation as with Picolisp: no answer in #scheme, come here, people say "sorry, this is a CL channel". 03:48:37 hmm 03:48:49 this is true; #lisp is much more active in my experience 03:48:56 well, at least #scheme has 150 people in it 03:48:59 #picolisp has 6 03:49:11 plage: What's with the heavy marketing? 03:49:11 there's #racket too, which is sort of a subdialect of Scheme 03:49:27 drdo: I speak from experience. 03:49:59 plage: One thing i would really recommend 03:50:03 drdo: I was a Scheme user for many years, and finally converted to CL. Never looked back. 03:50:07 Is watching these video lectures http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 03:50:12 pattern: http://docs.racket-lang.org/ is fantastic 03:50:39 would learning with SBCL be ok as a choice of common lisp? 03:50:58 yep 03:51:00 that's what most people here use 03:51:12 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:51:13 pattern: yes, most implementations implement pretty much the entire standard correctly. 03:52:30 (or, at least, it certainly seems like most people here use SBCL) 03:52:36 alexsuraci: what would be the advantage of learning racket over sbcl? 03:52:40 pattern: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ will get you up and running quickly too 03:53:10 pattern: are you trying to get me killed? ;) 03:53:13 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:17 Just an observation from the peanut gallery: I saw a recent conversation on c.l.l. where they at least sort-of advised experienced programmers to start with arc. Get familiar with all the mind-bending concepts, then switch to either CL or clojure, depending on which you found more appealing 03:53:30 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:33 alexsuraci: sorry.. don't mean to start a flamewar 03:53:34 (it seemed like reasonable advice to a n00b) 03:53:38 alexsuraci: maybe i should ask in #racket 03:53:58 alexsuraci: would you recommend "Practical Common Lisp" over "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction" ? 03:54:10 jimrthy: That sounds like the same crowd that would recommend learning Latin when you really want to speak French. 03:54:13 pattern: Racket/Scheme seems a bit more of a "pure" starting point in terms of language design/simplicity 03:54:18 jimrthy: That was what i was thinking, common lisp or practical common lispe don't really help someone like pattern much 03:54:24 *lisp 03:54:29 pattern: I ahven't tried A Gentle Introduction, sorry 03:54:48 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:53 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-44-109.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55:06 plage: LOL. Good point. I'll shut back down into my clueless n00b hole now 03:55:12 anyone else have an opinion regarding which would be better for an utter lisp novice? "Practical Common Lisp" over "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction" ? 03:55:15 pattern: basically, learn Scheme but use Common Lisp. ;) 03:55:18 pattern: If you like #lisp, you'll want to learn CL. Start with Touretzky. 03:55:26 (or learn Racket) 03:55:51 rme: i don't know what i'll like yet.. that's the problem 03:55:53 jimrthy: That's not what I meant to say. Your point is valid, and merits a discussion. 03:55:59 plage: The thing is doesn't want to speak french 03:56:06 *is he 03:56:23 pattern: By #lisp, I meant this channel. 03:56:25 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.144.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:56:36 drdo: That is indeed entirely possible. 03:56:51 rme: this is my first day here.. so i have no opinion yet (you all seem like a very helpful bunch, though :)) 03:57:00 plage: The more I think about it, the better your metaphor seems. Learn Latin, then all the Romance languages pretty much fall into your lap 03:57:27 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 03:57:59 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.71.207] has joined #lisp 03:58:06 I don't understand why someone would recommend beginning with Arc. Is it supposed to be easier to learn? 03:58:10 jimrthy: Thing is, there is an overhead there, and if you only want to speak one or two of them, then that overhead might be prohibitive, especially, since you probably "get it" after one or two others anyway. 03:58:19 I would recommend starting with Kernel 03:58:33 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-34-53.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58:44 The trouble is that there aren't any nice beginner friendly texts, so you're pretty much left with reading the specification 03:59:15 jimrthy: People who argue that seem to think the overhead is close to 0, but that is absolutely not the case. 03:59:26 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:59:49 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:06 jimrthy: learning natural languages is fundamentally different from learning programming languages 04:00:21 drdo: Really? How? 04:00:52 plage: When you learn a programming language, what you really care about is learning the core of the language, and it is useful, not learning the whole library ecosystem 04:01:04 -!- TraumaPony is now known as hugs 04:01:07 When you learn a natural language, just learning how the language works is pretty useless 04:01:15 It's the vocabulary that really matters 04:01:20 I spent part of an afternoon once toying with Arc, and I hated it. I've never spent any serious time with any non-CL lisp (and not much time, comparatively, with it). I was just passing along an opinion 04:01:43 csmax_ [~max@p5DE8E905.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:45 drdo: I don't recognize that at all. I think in both cases, the hard part is learning to distinguish between grammatical and idiomatic phrases. 04:01:46 -!- hugs is now known as TraumaPrincess 04:02:20 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-5-77.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:49 plage: That might be the hard part 04:03:12 But the laborious part is learning how to talk about all the things you want to talk about 04:03:57 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:49 -!- csmax [~max@p5DE8E874.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05:14 drdo: Sorry, I still don't recognize any difference between programming langauges and natural languages here. 04:06:16 plage: What natural languages are you fluent in? 04:06:38 drdo: Swedish, English, French. Some German, and now a little Vietnamese. 04:07:25 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:31 drdo: In both cases, in the beginning you struggle with vocabulary, trying to recognize what you see, and trying to use what you have seen. In both cases, later on, you struggle to distinguish between idiomatic and nonidiomatic use, and trying to make it easier for others to recognize what you produce. 04:08:11 plage: How much time would it take for you to become fluent in portguese considering you know french versus how much time would it take for you to become fluent in schem considering you know CL? 04:09:14 My point is, in natural languages, there's a lot of vocabulary to learn before you can use them successfully 04:09:20 drdo: Not long for portuguese, a few months in Portugal or Brazil would probably do it. I already know Scheme, so that's a bad example. Also, it is hard to move to a country where they speak any programming language. 04:09:45 drdo: define fluency. My scheme may compile, but I spend a lot of time reading/searching for SRFIs, reading implementation docs, and my scheme definitely has a CL accent. 04:10:28 kclifton [~kclifton@S01060026f32c2837.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:39 pkhuong: Sure, but it is still useful (your scheme) 04:10:56 it's not fluent. 04:11:07 while with natural languages, it isn't very useful at all if you don't have a large vocabulary 04:11:22 in other news, has anyone figured out some good macros for working with dot-delimited constructs from lisp? Kind of weird wording, but what I mean is other languages have object.after.object.and.methods(interleved).too -- translating these rather compact statements to lisp often makes them longer and harder to understand 04:11:55 gonzojive: Clojure has a .. macro that can be understood like this 04:12:03 gonzojive: (>>= object method1 method2 method3) 04:12:05 (.. a b c d e f g) = a.b.c.d.e.f.g 04:12:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5317.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:44 pkhuong: can that handle arguments to the methods at all? 04:12:48 drdo: I can't agree. I spent all morning asking people in the store where to find certain items, and telling the taxi driver the way to where I wanted to go. That was *very* useful, but my vocabulary is still quite limited. 04:13:04 gonzojive: sure, especially if you assume that the piped value is the first argument. 04:13:26 plage: I guess you can look at it that way 04:13:45 gonzojive: generalize all but the first argument to list designators of the form (function . other-arguments). 04:14:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:25 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:15:26 IMDB is quite retarded, translating movie titles based my geographical location 04:15:30 -!- jleija [~jleija@c-98-199-38-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:15:58 And most of the time the translations are so terrible that i don't even recognise the title and then click on it to find out i've seen it already 04:16:14 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:16:14 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:16:58 drdo: Speaking of Portuguese, last time when me and my wife were in Lisbon and we wanted to go to the airport, at some point the taxi driver asked (in Portuguese) what terminal we wanted to go to and what airline we were going with, and I answered in Portuguese. My wife was very surprised because she knows that I don't know any Purtuguese (to speak of). I had just anticipated the qestions, looked up the words in the dictionary, 04:16:59 including the answers. You can get pretty far with that kind of tactics. 04:17:42 :) 04:17:56 -!- DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-76-188-181-37.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:19 plage: I have no trouble speaking spanish, even quite fluently and i've never really studied it 04:18:31 Then again, i'm portuguese, and it's really similar 04:18:43 drdo: I can believe that. I learned French by moving to France. 04:19:34 I didn't move to spain, i've been there a few times but not for lenghty periods 04:20:01 And i get really annoyed at spanish tourists talking to me in spanish 04:20:16 I speak in spanish when i go to their country, it's a similar effort 04:20:54 $(blah, elem).toArray().filter(function(x) { return x.hidden(); }); becomes (>>= ($ "blah" elem) (to-array ) (filter (lambda (x) (>>= x hidden)))) .. that's pretty comprehensible 04:21:13 gonzojive: What's the point? 04:21:33 gonzojive: with list designators, you can replace singleton lists with their one element. 04:22:04 gonzojive: have you checked out parenscript? 04:22:07 gonzojive: also, what's wrong with (filter #'hidden) ? 04:22:34 pkhuong: I'm thinking of a way to incorporate (1) things that are evaluated and (2) properties, not methods 04:22:47 this is for working with jQuery in Parenscript actually 04:23:17 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:23:23 gonzojive: So what's the issue? Parenscript has something for that already 04:23:29 And it's pretty nice 04:23:39 drdo: what macro? 04:23:40 *plage* vanishes to go to lunch with the staff. 04:24:12 CHAIN 04:24:39 i'll have to check out chain. I mostly know about (@ a 'b c) => a.b[c] 04:24:49 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-32-178-70.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:25:08 You are using parenscript without CHAIN? 04:25:28 You must love self-punishment 04:26:01 Check out chain and with-slots 04:26:29 haha, well I mostly worked with a massive lispy library that doesn't require much native javascript interaction until recently 04:28:10 -!- plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:28:57 Does anyone know any good movie i can watch? 04:29:17 can chain handle forms that want to evaluate rather than be turned into method calls? a la (chain a 'b (1- n)) => a.b[1-n] 04:29:41 drdo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1Zb3xmvMc Only ontopic one that comes to mind. 04:29:54 sykopomp: :) 04:30:12 gonzojive: not sure 04:30:31 gonzojive: that should be n-1 04:30:45 gonzojive: try macroexpanding it 04:30:48 see what happens 04:31:03 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 04:31:03 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 04:31:03 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 04:36:18 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:37:35 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@S01060026f32c2837.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 04:38:07 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:41:14 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:54 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:47:58 sluggo [~Chrish@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:49:44 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 04:50:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:58 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-rzodnbdmezcbrcji] has joined #lisp 04:58:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-rzodnbdmezcbrcji] has quit [Changing host] 04:58:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:59:51 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.181.200] has joined #lisp 05:02:30 -!- davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:05 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:14:51 drdo: I'm French. Phonetically, I find Portuguese harder than Spanish. It almost sounds like Russian! 05:15:42 (And I studied Russian at school). 05:20:56 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:32 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 05:23:18 I've never heard Portuguese Portuguese, but I'd say Brazilian sounds much more phonetically foreign to me (as an Anglophone) than any type of Spanish 05:25:07 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:34 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:11 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:40 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:30:45 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.181.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:31 sellout [~greg@213-65-251-184-no35.business.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:43 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:44:58 what about portuguese ppl speaking spanish? :) (I've actually hear this an it sounds pretty weird) 05:46:04 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 05:48:38 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:50:34 don't kill me for this.. but does anyone here write lisp using vim? 05:51:11 i'm trying to figure out how to use the Slimv plugin in vim.. and having some problems figuring out just how it works 05:51:41 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:51:55 i've gotten as far as getting it to launch a seperate terminal with a lisp repl in it, but don't really know how to issue commands to it through vim 05:54:55 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:13 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:29 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:55:55 plage [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 05:56:09 nevermind.. i think i'm kind of getting it 05:56:19 just had to use some of the keybindings mentioned in the docs.. 05:56:49 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:57:13 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.102.6] has joined #lisp 05:57:16 Those are often some of the best keybindings ;-) 05:58:13 indeed :) 05:58:55 the docs are just pretty extensive.. and lack any kind of tutorial/intro to using the plugin 06:00:29 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:41 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:04:54 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:06:05 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:06:43 -!- plage [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:11:03 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:05 brandonz 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[~userName@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:02 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-147-151.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:55 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-158-73.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:08:07 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-224-52.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:53 astertronisticon [~astertron@ip70-181-196-121.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:34 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-147-151.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:49 -!- SYSTEM_ARMED [~null@ppp-70-128-102-247.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:13:37 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.71.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:15:11 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.176.76] has joined #lisp 07:15:36 -!- petercoulton_ [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:15:44 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:49 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:38 good morning 07:22:22 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:22:22 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:22:22 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:23:00 Evening :) 07:23:07 sellout [~greg@192.36.80.8] has joined #lisp 07:25:47 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:50 hello 07:28:37 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 07:29:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fibimyssydbpurbb] has joined #lisp 07:30:37 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:31:00 Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:34:11 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:09 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[~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:52 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:36:31 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-121-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:32 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:28 Hmm I seem to be able to connect to cliki.net (like via telnet), but requests don't return any results. Can anyone else confirm or deny? 08:42:20 -!- petercoulton_ [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:44 loads forever here 08:43:51 no response in the last two minutes 08:43:59 doesn't work for me 08:44:19 antifuchs: do you have a website 08:44:32 yeah, http://boinkor.net 08:45:36 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:45:41 antifuchs: dang looks like there's pretty cool stuff 08:45:50 thanks (: 08:48:10 antifuchs: Cool, you work for Franz? That sounds like it would be fun; I'd love to work there :) 08:48:24 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:30 it is! they're all very awesome (: 08:48:42 (and I'm not just saying that because ejohnson is here also (-;) 08:48:44 antifuchs: how's Wien? 08:48:54 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:49:25 Franz has nice customer service. I'm not even a customer because I can't afford the stuff, but they were always very nice/helpful with info. 08:49:34 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 08:49:43 we try and do our best (-: 08:49:47 ejohnson: it's snowy! 08:49:49 brrrrr 08:50:25 Heh, well at least you've got your wife to keep you warm :) 08:51:29 antifuchs: get me a job opportunity there ;) 08:51:51 MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has joined #lisp 08:51:54 true ((: 08:52:00 Quadrescence: I'll see what I can do (: 08:52:01 What is the most beautiful imperative language? 08:52:07 lisp 08:52:33 Quadrescence: Do you say LISP is imperative? 08:52:38 yes i do 08:52:48 it's multi-paradigm (: 08:52:56 MindVirus: it's imperative that you use it ;) 08:52:59 it's what you make of it :) 08:53:27 My definition of imperative programming uses blocks. 08:53:35 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:53:36 MindVirus: lisp can use blocks if you want 08:53:41 MindVirus: as I said, it's what you make of iy 08:53:43 it* 08:53:44 How's that? 08:53:52 PROG, PROGN 08:54:23 MindVirus: block? 08:54:26 MindVirus: of course, not all lisp programmers like programming strictly imperatively, so just because lisp can be imperative, doesn't mean other people will code the way you like 08:54:39 Ah it was specbot that I wanted ;) 08:54:53 Check out the hyperspec about blocks, should prove interesting 08:54:58 or even tagbody for blocks ;-) 08:55:09 Quadrescence: OK. What is the most beautiful language that is usually regarded as imperative? 08:55:29 I'll get this open, lisp 08:55:35 open/one 08:55:36 MindVirus: (block hi (print 'hi) (print 'lo) (return-from hi 'hilo)) 08:55:36 MindVirus: Odd question, who would use a language where they are restricted to one way? 08:55:46 ;) 08:55:50 Quadrescence: Java? 08:56:14 MindVirus: some assembly languages are pretty great. 08:56:15 no, that's the premier "object oriented" language (but even that's highly debatable) 08:56:18 MindVirus: Even better question, define "beautiful", sorry couldn't resist ;) 08:56:34 ejohnson: I'm looking for your definition of beautiful, not mine. 08:56:36 I don't have a definition yet. 08:56:41 MindVirus: To answer your question in the way you probably want, I'd say FreeBASIC is. 08:56:47 FreeBASIC? 08:56:51 MindVirus: It's like C, but without a lot of extra cruft. 08:56:53 It has BASIC in the name. 08:56:57 No, it's not like Applesoft BASIC 08:57:06 or 95% of other basics for that matter. 08:57:17 But it does sound like freebasing. 08:57:46 MindVirus: Not sure that I find imparitive all the beautiful. I reach for it usually when I just want to hammer out something without much thought. 08:58:05 ejohnson: That's what programmers want to do these days. 08:58:12 So I'm writing a programming language. 08:58:17 And I am trying to gather inspiration. 08:58:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-66-81.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:58:43 MindVirus: Cool. Sounds like quite a project. 09:00:04 MindVirus: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good 09:00:26 MindVirus: you might be interested in "jeylang" and "yetilang", which are two sort of imperative languages, the latter of which being a lot more developed. 09:00:38 the former was used to introduce scheme/lisp to someone 09:00:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:24 Quadrescence: OK. 09:01:53 Quadrescence: Who is this guy? 09:02:13 Before I re-invent the wheel, I know that in Ruby there's the flatten method which reduces multi-dimensional lists to a one-dimensional lists. Is there an equivalent function in CL? 09:02:24 *list 09:03:13 MindVirus: I am "tarballs are good" 09:03:24 So you wrote these. 09:03:30 You're a mathematician too. 09:03:33 I like you. 09:03:51 My friend wrote yetilang at the start, and I pushed him to add lambda, and then showed him why that was a good idea ;) 09:04:15 namely in https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/yetilang/src/ffafe38eeff0/alfs/quadlib.alf 09:04:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:04:54 you know, so he can do ridiculous stuff like: var isPrime = lambda(n){function=not(min(map(lambda(f){ function = f(n) }, map(isDivisibleBy, 2 & rangeBy(3, isqrt(n), 2)))))} 09:04:55 ;) 09:05:18 jtz: apply append. 09:06:09 jtza8: I'm not sure if I know the answer to your question, but are you interested in turning ((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) into (1 2 3 4 5 6) and things like that? 09:07:36 WEIRD< SHIFT JUST JAMMED 09:07:44 that's fine 09:07:57 There.... 09:08:27 Basically, I'd just like to flatten a tree into a one-dimensional list. 09:08:51 Unfortunately, (apply #'append ...) won't work this time. 09:09:00 Quadrescence: I'm fairly certain that there is no sane programming language where that would actually work as a prime tester. 09:09:15 MindVirus: Well it works in that language 09:09:24 Interesting. 09:09:39 jtza8: yeah because it would only do it for one level? 09:09:46 yep 09:10:08 use flatten - not in cl, but available in many libraries 09:10:27 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has joined #lisp 09:10:32 Right. So I can basically re-write it. :) 09:10:49 yeah, it sounds fun to write 09:11:33 Just finding the fixed-point of (apply #'append ...) :) 09:12:18 would it be cool if we talked about fixed-points for while? I've always heard the term but never understood it. 09:12:22 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@226.100.125.91.rb5.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:37 astertronisticon: Simply, it's just where f(x) = x 09:12:46 oh ok, thanks 09:13:12 I think the examples where I see the term mentioned are so out there I'm also intimidated. 09:16:00 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:16:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 09:17:01 jtz: Then mapcar it ... 09:17:23 Sorry, mapcon or whatever it is. 09:20:14 lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-176-173.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:25:04 cool I got it working after some tinkering. append doesn't want to work if you give it (append 4 5 '(3 4)) instead of (append '(4 5 3 4)), but other than that it wasn't too bad. 09:25:32 wups, I meant to write, instead of (append '(4) '(5) '(3 4)) 09:26:05 wvdschel_ [~wim@d51A4AD41.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:30:28 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:31:13 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:38:40 is there a quicklispable project that has naggum's whereas? 09:39:15 ok, alexandria has when-let 09:39:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-66-81.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:40:34 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:17 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:42:41 out of curiosity, has anyone ever written their own eval function and then called it at the top of their program on their own code? 09:43:04 like (my-eval `(code for a language where the compiler is written in lisp)) 09:44:11 I'm trying to do this in scheme right now and it has been interesting 09:44:30 astertronisticon, no - but I wrote a function that gets a filename, and compiles that into lisp 09:45:10 I guess you could use a reader-macro, or perhaps even a simple macro is sufficient to avoid the quote 09:45:56 yeah macros seem powerful enough to get already. 09:46:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:47:10 so you wrote a parser for lisp in lisp? 09:47:32 cool 09:48:24 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:49:25 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:49:43 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:00 no ... I read python-like lisp from a file, and replaced the indentations with () 09:50:19 I showed that a python-lover 09:50:29 MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has joined #lisp 09:50:39 Nice 09:51:02 astertronisticon: what do you mean by "at the top of their program"? 09:51:18 astertronisticon: do you want to write a form, and have it read the rest of the same source file? 09:51:43 yeah, you'd basically call your own eval function on a list that contains all of your code 09:52:17 (my-eval '( ... )) is trivial. 09:52:33 #.(my-load) ... is easy too. 09:52:47 Ie. you don't need to write all your code in a single form. 09:52:50 yeah, I was just curious if anyone had experimented with creating strange lisp like languages by trying different my-eval functions 09:53:02 cool thanks, that is good to know 09:53:11 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 09:53:12 astertronisticon: well, there are advantages in specifically NOT doing that. 09:53:27 that is, it's better if you can embed your languages with the host lisp. 09:53:36 . 09:53:37 yeah of course 09:53:54 Then you don't have to re-implement IF and +, and you can use your extensions amongst existing lisp code. 09:54:13 But both ways are done. It's easy. 09:54:21 cool 09:54:25 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:54 I was going to try to write a C -> assembly compiler in lisp 09:55:07 See for example: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/ and http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/m-expression/ 09:55:38 The first implements aim-8 lisp. You type (aim-8:repl) and then the following forms are aim-8 lisp. 09:56:11 The second implements m-expression syntax. You type (m-expr), and then the following forms are m-expressions. 09:56:13 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:37 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:41 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 09:57:18 wow thanks for showing me that. 09:57:54 astertronisticon: there's also pseudo, which is a R4RS scheme implementation. You type (pseudo) and then scheme forms. 09:58:17 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/scheme/impl/pseudo/0.html 09:58:28 There are a lot of such examples. 09:59:09 wow that's really cool, you can just switch back and forth 10:03:55 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 10:04:35 H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E1C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:28 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:07:30 -!- H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EEAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:10:27 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:13:00 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:20 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@78.54.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:42 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 10:15:58 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@226.100.125.91.rb5.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:17:49 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:17:52 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:18:25 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.46] has joined #lisp 10:19:38 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.21] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:21:59 Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has joined #lisp 10:22:20 Hello, bet no one thought they were going to see me for another few months? :) 10:22:45 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 10:23:30 Kruno: why, are you on an IRC detox? 10:23:40 sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has joined #lisp 10:23:41 ? 10:23:41 Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 10:23:49 What is an IRC detox? 10:23:57 I am using web chat. 10:24:03 http://webchat.freenode.net/ 10:24:28 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-249-120.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:43 Is it causing problems? 10:24:45 Kruno: nvm, it was a lame attempt at humour on my part 10:24:49 oh 10:25:37 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26:23 I have spent all week learning lisp, but I think something is missing. I am doing problems on the 99 lisp problems and project euler. However, as an example, take a look at my code and please criticise it. 10:26:25 http://codeviewer.org/view/code:156c 10:26:51 It eats up 4.6Kb of space, almost half that compiled. :/ 10:28:18 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:28:35 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:54 So what? 10:29:19 I think my code may be bloated. I am not sure how I wrote that solution was a wise method. 10:29:41 Why the embedded (defun ..) am I missing something? 10:30:03 Kruno: yes, the first thing is to not use defining forms inside defining forms. 10:30:07 That was a condition on which to stop eating my list 10:30:12 cool 10:30:25 Should there be two labels instead? 10:30:37 Yes. 10:30:47 Cool. WIll make change. 10:31:00 Labels actually is able to define several local functions, that's why there's those two levels of parentheses. 10:31:13 It's because it's a list of function definitions 10:31:52 Thanks. Ta. Why is nested defun bad? 10:32:00 what is that lambda about 10:32:04 Because it redefines the global function each time it's called. 10:32:09 is it actually getting used 10:32:22 yeah 10:32:28 depending on the implementation, it would even recompile the definitions! 10:32:28 in the destructuring bind 10:32:34 some implementations call gcc to compile! 10:32:49 Now, your pack doesn't pack anything, it only groups similar elements. 10:32:51 should avoid them, ta. 10:33:14 In some case it's what you want, but it's very rare. 10:33:34 Pack and group are two different things? 10:34:28 or even just (4 a 1 b 2 c 2 a 1 d 4 e) 10:34:56 That is the next step. :) 10:35:18 I wrote a function with only 3 conditions in a cond that made: ((a . 4) (b . a) ...) 10:35:40 Earlier in the day, which is why I am surprised this excercise made me do many a bloopers. 10:35:45 blooper^ 10:36:06 Sorry: ((a . 4) (b . 1) ...) 10:37:03 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:38:07 So you really want group? 10:38:46 grouping, yes. 10:38:56 Sorry, it taken me a while to register. :o 10:39:53 Fixed! 10:39:54 http://codeviewer.org/view/code:156d 10:40:25 It's exactly the same as for pack: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117957 10:40:54 You can make the -run function local functions with labels if you want. 10:42:06 Why is my code more complex? 10:42:10 And indeed, my group function uses only Space: 320 Bytes compared to 6000+ bytes for your pack. 10:42:57 Indeed, yours is a lot easier to follow. 10:43:47 I consider lists to be a recursive structure: an element, and a list. 10:44:16 Therefore I have recursive functions, that process an element (first list), and a recursive call to process the rest of the list. 10:45:01 This was the function I had earlier. 10:45:01 http://codeviewer.org/view/code:156e 10:45:13 It made: ((A 4) (B 1) (C 2) (A 2) (D 1) (E 4)) 10:45:14 Since I need to know what is the current element, I extract it in the stub functions pack and group, so that I have a uniform call sequence in the recursive functions. 10:45:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:45:50 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:46:40 -!- wvdschel_ [~wim@d51A4AD41.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:42 Kruno: for text-book exercises, I didn't consider the limitations on stack usage. My functions have no terminal recursive calls, so if you call them on a 1-million element list, they'll probably explode the stack space. 10:47:15 Your recursive function uses an accumulator (agg) to transform the recursion into a terminal recursion, which can be optimized out by TCO. 10:48:05 You have a problem, that you use append and therefore will be O(n²). You can change it to O(n) by using cons, and reverse-ing the result at the end. 10:48:21 Neat. I didn't know that. 10:48:33 I thought append conses? 10:48:38 if you have two lists 10:48:47 Ye,s append copies all but the last argument. 10:48:54 oh 10:49:13 I thought it did a c pointer trick to link pointers. 10:49:21 You could use nconc to avoid the copying, it would modify the last cons cell, but it would still be O(n) to find it. 10:49:44 I like your first idea as it is more functional. 10:50:02 Kruno: be aware of the limit of stack space though! 10:50:25 I ran into it a few times doing some project euler excercises. 10:50:36 Factor: 4390583049578349058304 10:50:40 into prime numbers 10:50:43 lol 10:50:54 product of primes^ 10:51:00 Now, notice how both functions have the same structure: you could write a higher order function that would do the recursion down the list, and that would call a parameteer function to do the processing and accumulation. 10:51:45 indeed, my second solution does that 10:52:18 eat - goes down one direction, and then conditional store controls storage and termination 10:53:00 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:53:24 surely, this exercise could be solved pourely by map + reduce? 10:53:40 probably. 10:55:14 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:38 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:58 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:59:16 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:25 Kruno: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/117957#1 11:00:39 Kruno: notice, there's a problem with this solution with reduce. Find it! 11:00:51 that is quite neat 11:01:13 It would fail on some inputs. 11:01:22 What input? 11:01:39 '(a a a a b c c a a d e e e e) 11:02:26 No. On (pack '(nil ...)) it will try to sum 1 to nil. 11:02:47 Why are m-expressions not as popular anymore? Don't they lend themselves to simpler list constants? 11:03:01 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:03:07 MindVirus: oh, they are VERY popular! Every newbie ask for them! 11:03:10 That's why I wrote that. 11:04:03 The problem, is that between the invention of m-expression, and their implementation, occured another inventions, thanks to sexps: macros! 11:04:32 When you want to use macros, it's much easier to stay with sexps, and it's better to have pure homoiconicity between code and data. 11:05:38 Therefore m-expression become obsolete. Early lisp papers used them. But once macros were invented, everybody just kept using s-expressions. 11:05:59 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:53 (remove-if #'(lambda (x) (equal (car x) 0)) (pack (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (if x x 0)) '(nil a a a b c c a a d e e e e nil)))) 11:07:57 solved ;) 11:09:10 No, it gives the wrong result. We wanted ((nil . 1) (a . 3) ...) 11:09:28 oh 11:10:48 So macros bolstered s-exprs. 11:11:01 Basically, yes. 11:12:02 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:12:09 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:12:11 MindVirus: that said, with reader macros, you can implement any syntax you may need over s-exps. 11:12:31 OK. 11:12:51 MindVirus: for example, this week I implemented Objective-C. [recipient doSomethingWith:(+ 2 3) andWith:(aref objects i)] 11:13:06 Objective-CL* 11:20:29 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:21:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23:35 you could fix the reduce problem by using an assoc list of the first item of the passed in list as reduce's initial-value, right? 11:24:38 I just learned what acons does 11:24:51 never knew about that macro 11:27:13 -!- MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has left #lisp 11:29:16 Did one better 11:29:38 antoni [~user@159.Red-88-8-194.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:51 replaced (1+ ()): (if (cdar result) (1+ (cdar result)) 0) 11:30:15 could use xor? 11:30:22 instead of that nasty branch 11:31:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:31:37 jobf [~jfranck@c-9fbde555.03-87-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:33:27 why on earth are people implementing their own xor? 11:34:59 -!- antoni [~user@159.Red-88-8-194.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:55 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:37:07 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.204] has joined #lisp 11:37:32 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:38:00 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-70.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:42:02 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:44:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:45:38 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-139-195.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:45:50 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-139-195.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:31 mrBliss [~user@83.101.76.131] has joined #lisp 11:48:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:48:31 Which one should I read first: 'On Lisp' or 'ANSI Common Lisp' or does reading one make the other redundant? (I'm not new to Lisp) 11:51:14 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@78.54.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:32 I read ANSI CL first and are halfway through On Lisp 11:51:41 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.113.254.194] has joined #lisp 11:52:38 I wasn't new to lisp, but had more experience with scheme than CL 11:53:22 perhaps if you are used to CL you can skip ANSI 11:53:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:01 I'm right in assuming that 'On Lisp' talks more about the 'why' of (Common) Lisp? 11:54:31 not the parts I have read 11:54:33 and a hell of a lot about macros 11:54:37 more about macros 11:55:07 I've been programming in Clojure, read a couple of books about it. Read 'Little Schemer' and I'm currently reading Land of Lisp. 11:55:29 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:55:44 I would guess you can skip ANSI CL after reading Land of Lisp 11:56:03 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:56:04 jobf: ok, thanks 11:56:39 Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:56:55 to me ANSI was a good fit, a bridge between scheme and CL 11:57:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:00:47 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:03 ok, it's settled: 'ANSI Common Lisp' first and then 'On Lisp'. Thanks for the input jobf. 12:01:17 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:08 ANSI Common Lisp is not a good book for learning Common Lisp. 12:02:17 Xach: how so? 12:02:43 mrBliss: It ignores or denigrates important and useful features of the language in an attempt to describe some purer form of Lisp, which isn't actually available. 12:03:33 Xach: which book do you recommend me reading instead? 12:03:34 I recommend Practical Common Lisp or Paradigms of AI Programming if you want to learn a language that the author enjoys and describes fully, rather than approaches with nose held and a ten-foot pole. 12:03:59 how about On Lisp? 12:04:23 Dranik: that will be the second book I'll be reading :-) 12:05:00 Dranik: I didn't like On Lisp much either, but I think it is more about useful things that actually apply to CL than ANSI Common Lisp. 12:05:02 mrBliss, btw, for what are you planning to use Lisp? 12:05:46 Xach, do you use CL for commercial programming? 12:07:10 Dranik: I'm a student and I'd like to improve my knowledge of Lisp. No really practical use. Maybe this is heresy in this channel, but I'm using Clojure as my general purpose language. 12:07:19 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:07:24 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:43 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:44 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:44 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:07:44 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 12:08:22 Dranik: A bit. More for hobby stuff, though. 12:08:36 mrBliss: If you want to learn clojure, read clojure books and visit clojure channels. 12:09:02 Xach: ok, perhaps I should say it was a bridge between scheme and a subset of CL (some generic 2-lisp, with defmacro) 12:09:14 Xach: I'm already know Clojure (pretty good I think). 12:10:01 but I must say I enjoyed ANSI 12:10:59 but it was a while since I read Practical Common Lisp, it might be a better start 12:11:22 mrBliss: a funny aside about clojur 12:11:40 I wouldn't start with clojure unless you really want the concurrency or java symbiosis 12:12:14 it was still designed around the jvm, so you get fluff like trampolines 12:12:21 yvdriess: too late for that, I've read all the released books and have been using it for over a year now. 12:12:21 I met Rich last summer, and we spoke some about Clojure, and I said, "I approched it like 'hey a lisp on the jvm'" and was sort of dissapointed 12:12:48 how good is Clojure's macro support btw? 12:12:49 and he responed something like "most people think it's more about concurrency on the JVM than lisp" 12:13:18 There's not much more about Clojure left to learn for me. So I'm looking into other Lisps. 12:13:25 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 12:13:51 lots of learning to be had in common lisp :) 12:13:56 I've been using it for years and still learning 12:14:19 and not of the 'why the fuck did they put this in kind' 12:14:48 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 12:14:55 -!- Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:16:29 yvdriess: but plenty of that as well :) 12:16:43 yvdriess: I'm trying to find out in which order I should read the books of the heap ;-) 12:17:17 most ppl just recommend coding a project or two 12:17:31 and read up during 12:17:32 yeah 12:17:40 its fun when youi have no idea what you are doing 12:17:43 =) 12:17:48 indeed 12:18:26 apropos, describe and ^C^D^H are your friends 12:18:44 and don't use macros unless you REALLY HAVE TO 12:19:02 on lisp is a really cool book, but if you can do it with a function, don't use a macro 12:19:17 yvdriess: I find the 'doc' function in Clojure very helpful. (It prints the docstring in the repl instead of opening a web browser) 12:19:36 that's the equivalent of describe in CL 12:20:38 but some stuff like loop you might want to look up in the clhs :) 12:21:14 yvdriess: I just tried it with 'count', but it doesn't print much helpful information 12:21:19 you've read sicp and worked with clojure, so just start hacking 12:21:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:21:42 -!- sav [~lsd@jagat.xored.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:21:52 yvdriess: *Little Schemer. I just like to read books about Lisp :-) 12:22:00 (describe 'count) ? 12:22:33 get cracking with emacs+slime from the start too 12:22:50 yvdriess: I am 12:22:57 great 12:23:18 count gives me a nice arglist, types and docstring 12:23:22 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-109-89.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:23:34 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-109-250.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:23:48 just remember that you have to give describe a symbol or object 12:24:01 yvdriess: I'll paste my output 12:24:04 so (describe 'count) or (describe #'count) 12:24:09 pastebin 12:24:10 mrBliss: documentation 12:24:18 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:22 freik [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:24:33 mrBliss: (documentation 'count 'function) 12:25:51 as you're using slime, cursor on the name and ^C^D^D 12:26:09 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has left #lisp 12:26:18 yvdriess: not pastebin, lisppaste 12:27:01 yvdriess: I'm using C-c C-d h 12:27:11 crap, you're right 12:27:19 that's for clhs 12:27:23 not ^H 12:28:17 mytoh [~mytoh@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 12:28:29 -!- vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:28:36 sometimes it's good to press C-h 12:29:48 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:30:26 when I submit something on paste.lisp I get a blank page? 12:31:24 mrBliss: usually you shouldn't 12:31:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:46 Apparently I have pasted it four times now ;-) 12:32:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117963 12:33:20 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.113.254.194] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:33:26 wow 12:33:32 what implementation are you using? 12:33:43 sbcl shows the documentation string 12:33:45 Clisp 12:33:47 but yours apparently doesn't 12:34:26 yvdriess: could it have to do something with Slime? 12:34:43 tfb [~tfb@92.41.1.155.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:34:43 nah 12:34:53 it's clisp not printing the docstring for some reason 12:35:08 I've got SBCL installed as well. 12:35:23 not "not printing", not having 12:35:35 seriously? 12:35:59 CL-USER> (documentation 'count 'function) (describe #'count) 12:35:59 # is a built-in system function. 12:35:59 Argument list: (#:ARG0 #:ARG1 &KEY :FROM-END :START :END :KEY :TEST :TEST-NOT) 12:35:59 crap, you're right 12:36:00 DOCUMENTATION does not print anything, but returns 12:36:10 DESCRIBE prints 12:36:23 as per the paste, (documentation 'count 'function) returned NIL 12:36:32 so there is no documentation for function COUNT 12:37:50 hm and lispworks has documentation, but documentation isn't printed in a describe 12:38:14 what DESCRIBE outputs is implementation dedendent 12:38:22 that much is obvious 12:39:20 it means that if one wants documentation, one should use the DOCUMENTATION function 12:39:51 or use a nice implementation where DESCRIBE is more useful 12:40:19 although sometimes documentation is long, and it is not desirable to have it pop up in the DESCRIBE output 12:42:16 so, to answer mrBliss's original question, Clojure's doc equivalent in CL is DOCUMENTATION 12:42:48 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55CF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:02 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55CF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:43:22 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:43:24 on a sidenote, there is a generic function DESCRIBE-OBJECT, which can be used to tweak the behaviour of DESCRIBE 12:44:00 and if you want some familiarity, (defun doc (func-name) (documentation func-name 'function)) 12:45:30 yvdriess: :-) 12:46:13 i'd suggest using SLIME's documentation access functions 12:46:33 C-c C-d f will list the methods defined for 12:47:03 instance 12:47:23 sorry, gut interrupted there 12:47:48 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.113.54.88] has joined #lisp 12:48:47 slime is awesome, learn to use it 12:49:44 jdz: the initial text of my scratch buffer is a list +40 slime commands I'm trying to learn ;-) 12:50:04 pastorn [~alexander@aoeuu.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 12:50:14 mrBliss: that's the spirit! 12:50:49 hello :) 12:51:23 pastorn: is there a specific reason why you're smiling? 12:51:42 jdz: that's just how i am 12:51:56 pastorn: you forgot the smiley 12:51:59 so, if i want to run lisp on embedded devices, how many hoops do i have to jump? 12:52:22 pastorn: first you have to define what "embedded devices" means 12:52:30 nintendo ds 12:52:47 i was thinking of compiling scheme with checken scheme and then use that 12:52:56 there's ECL that compiles to C 12:53:03 sounds awesome 12:53:15 what kind of CPU do the DSs have? 12:53:23 one ARM9 and one ARM7 12:53:37 i've heard ClozureCL runs on ARM 12:53:57 i'm not sure which one of them, though 12:54:30 Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:55:08 hahaha, first comment: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1601893/why-are-c-c-and-lisp-so-prevalent-in-embedded-devices-and-robots 12:55:26 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:55:44 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:59 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 12:56:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:56:54 Good evening everyone! 12:56:57 pastorn: what type of comment are you referring to? the first answer, or the first comment? (and don't you love the distinction) 12:57:34 antifuchs: "I once built a robot based on Java. It garbage collected right into a wall. " 12:57:46 ah, that (: 12:57:48 yeah, that was funny 12:58:57 I never knew Java was restricted from use in a Nuclear facility as well 13:01:28 might want to look at azul's pauseless thing, though. real-time gc is a reality. 13:01:59 antifuchs: it's not real time 13:02:11 antifuchs: the azul's (well, not yet) 13:02:22 hey plage 13:02:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:51 hm, I have not read more than their white paper. might have extrapolated a bit too much. (: 13:03:01 antifuchs: may I pm you? 13:03:21 antifuchs: well, the GC itself is pretty close as far as i understood, but the Java internals get in the way (the classloader and stuff) 13:03:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:38 it's easier to avoid gc in a Lisp like CL than java 13:03:42 antifuchs: so the still have to do some things in the stop-the-world scope 13:04:08 jdz: good to know (: 13:05:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:15 antifuchs: i'm not very familiar with the modern virtualisation hardware, but as i underst and it, they use those features to implement the read barrier 13:05:36 jdz: that's my understanding, too 13:05:39 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:05:52 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 13:06:01 lharc2 [~user@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 13:06:04 and I believe they have a kernel module that allows their gc to give improved hints to the vm system 13:06:10 but I haven't seen what it really does yet 13:06:40 antifuchs: but you intend to check out? i'd be interested to read a blog post or something :) 13:07:14 jdz: I'm not smart enough by far to give any sensible comment on it... but a couple smart people in the office are looking at it very closely (: 13:07:26 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:39 cd 13:11:09 Quadrescence: go ahead 13:11:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:12:39 wait what? common-lisp uses darcs? 13:13:32 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@105.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:27 antifuchs, cliff click's rant might interest them then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agH7Cz5FSxY 13:15:56 yvdriess: I think they might already know (: 13:16:01 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:16:01 -!- pastorn [~alexander@aoeuu.csbnet.se] has left #lisp 13:16:57 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.113.54.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:17:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:18:18 -!- sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:19:40 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.3] 13:22:29 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-109-89.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22:38 Given a list of headers, #\Return and #\Linefeed, can you think of a format string that outputs http-headers? 13:22:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117964 13:23:26 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-59.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:51 -!- mrBliss [~user@83.101.76.131] has left #lisp 13:24:51 avagorm [~user@124-148-237-187.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:25:00 chrnybo: I found it most reliable to treat HTTP as a binary protocol and use the specified octets in predictable ways. 13:26:30 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:26:57 Xach: 'the specified octets' being crlf? 13:27:14 13 and 10 13:29:06 Thanks. Predictable ways sounds kinda like best practice, what do mean by that? 13:30:02 sacho [~sacho@87-126-6-67.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 13:30:23 chrnybo, why not reuse hunchentoot or something similar? 13:30:54 chrnybo: I don't know if it's a best practice, but when I want the header line to end with 13 and 10, I feel more comfortable using 13 and 10 and not ~C with #\Return and #\Linefeed or whatever ~% does. 13:32:00 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@124.131.14.8] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9E1C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:34 flip214: I'd want an http client, then. 13:33:49 chrnybo: drakma does pretty well. 13:33:52 how may I determine if a symbol is defined as a function? 13:34:05 avagorm: fboundp will tell you if it is globally bound. 13:35:04 Xach: thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for 13:36:13 -!- H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E1C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:29 Regarding Drakma, I guess it was more fun talking HTTP to the socket myself rather than reading up on whether and how Drakma does post of XML payloads. 13:37:49 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F493.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:19 chrnybo: the XML thing is just the request content, no? 13:38:20 As well as betting on Drakma wanting to talk SSL with the server. 13:38:39 chrnybo: drakma doesn't care. 13:39:17 jdz: No, it's a web service, so I get xml back as well. 13:39:24 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@124.131.14.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:39:32 chrnybo: it's still the content 13:39:45 *Xach* uses drakma to talk to Amazon S3 with great success 13:40:01 -!- jobf [~jfranck@c-9fbde555.03-87-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:09 chrnybo: drakma is for doing HTTP; there's nothing in HTTP protocol about XML 13:40:20 jdz: Ah, sorry. OK, both the request and the response have XML bodies. 13:41:30 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:41:53 I'll spend some time in Drakma, then. 13:42:09 chrnybo: #+clisp (ext:with-http-input (resource "http://www.informatimago.com/") (read-line resource) ...) 13:42:18 chrnybo: instand http client. 13:42:26 s/d/t/ 13:42:30 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:28 jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@124.131.14.8] has joined #lisp 13:45:47 pjb: #+lispworks6 here. 13:46:21 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:00 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:51:10 -!- jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@124.131.14.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:51:20 do any of you guys (developers especially) regularly read/publish in peer reviewed programming journals? If so which ones you recommend 13:55:00 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:56:25 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:57:32 jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@124.131.14.8] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@67.143.83.128] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@67.143.83.128] has quit [Client Quit] 14:00:07 Advances in Engineering Software ? 14:00:24 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:02:08 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 mmh, I've never found these reviews very useful 14:03:18 -!- avagorm [~user@124-148-237-187.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:27 the subject moves too fast, the various blogs and online "journals" are better suited to it, imo 14:03:58 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@105.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:04:00 I've seen a new hacker newspaper was being printed a couple days ago 14:04:48 can't find the link right now tho 14:05:01 simias: well I'm browising some of them like the journal of Algorithms (old, now stopped publishing) you can lawyas find some useful things I think 14:05:49 kanru [~kanru@118-168-235-191.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:00 the advantage of these peer reviewed journals is that they are peer reviewed. Blogs are nice but u're never sure of the quality 14:06:09 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:18 I don't know, maybe it's just me, but usually I discover new things in programming by trying to solve a problem I have, not by reading random articles in a newspaper 14:06:47 also, paper lacks the copy/pasting feature... 14:08:53 yes, I also find it's a good way to learn by trying to practically solve problems 14:11:34 actually, my sole real experience with those newspapers was the french issue of the linux magazine, and most of the time it was interesting articles but you couldn't easily copy/paste the sample code, and most of the content could have easily fitted into a blog 14:11:58 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:43 -!- jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@124.131.14.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:13:47 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: connection closed] 14:15:01 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:13 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@202.90.125.91.rb4.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 paradoja [~paradoja@118.pool85-59-33.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:20:19 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:14 jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@124.131.14.8] has joined #lisp 14:25:20 -!- mytoh [~mytoh@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:08 mytoh [~mytoh@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 14:27:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:28:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-74.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:30:38 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:35:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:39:25 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:38 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 14:42:09 jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has joined #lisp 14:42:14 -!- mytoh [~mytoh@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:43:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:00 blandest` [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 14:45:04 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:45:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-204-85.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:46:00 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:25 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:49:44 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:52:07 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:52:19 az [~az@p4FE4F493.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:20 -!- adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has quit [Quit: death] 14:54:33 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:58 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:57:04 sunnyps [~sunnyps@93.snat-111-91-106.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 15:00:04 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8D95.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:17 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:41 felideon [~felideon@173.221.53.122.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:55 vasile [~vasile@john-marshall.sflc.info] has joined #lisp 15:01:02 -!- Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 15:03:20 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-142-170.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:26 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-45-202.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:05:33 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-87-105.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:36 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-45-202.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:49 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:24 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:29 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB0B91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:46 does anyone else have problems with 'cursor jumping' in slime? 15:08:02 when i start typing while something is evaluating, the cursor will be reset to the start of the line when it finishes evaluating 15:08:27 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:09:27 typing in the source buffer? 15:10:25 anyway, i don't experience anything like that 15:10:55 mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:23 muhdik_ [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:47 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:13:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14:03 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.240] has joined #lisp 15:14:37 adeht [~death@cattle-driver.no-ip.info] has joined #lisp 15:14:51 -!- mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:25 hrmpf, why would cl+ssl not be able to find libssl.so.0.9.8 on a debian amd64 system? The file definitely exists in /usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.8 15:15:45 jdz: no, typing at the repl 15:15:46 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:10 -!- freik is now known as freiksenet 15:18:07 marijnjh: how do you start your (background?) evaluation? 15:18:13 <_8david> antifuchs: only the usual dumb possibilities come to mind: is it a 64 bit Lisp? are all of the .so's actually binaries, and not linker scripts? is LD_LIBRARY_PATH free of junk? 15:18:21 oh god 15:18:29 _8david: your first guess was correct 15:18:35 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:37 <_8david> marijnjh: yes, slime moves the cursor when evaluation finishes. It's very annoying. 15:18:43 mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:54 -!- jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@124.131.14.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19:15 thanks (: 15:19:18 marijnjh: it does not seem to do it for me 15:19:27 jdz: it's not background, it's foreground. I type something that takes a moment to finish, and then continue typing while it computes 15:20:21 tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:18 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.163.39] has joined #lisp 15:22:26 marijnjh: ok, it seems to be doing that for me, too. (but i think i never type anything in the repl buffer until i get a prompt :/) 15:22:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23:03 jdz: i guess i'm too impatient for slime's taste 15:23:25 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:15 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@192.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:40 marijnjh: you've been using ACL until now, right? 15:25:42 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:25:48 the IDE, I mean 15:26:55 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:26:59 felideon: no, never touched the ACL IDE. i've been using slime for the past seven years 15:27:06 LOL 15:27:59 mtk0 [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@202.90.125.91.rb4.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:28:36 -!- mtk0 [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:50 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:36 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:58 guess I figured incorrectly :) 15:30:02 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:37 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:54 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:31:33 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 15:33:43 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:34:22 pjb: it is 2010, nobody uses anonymous ftp to provide files any more! 15:35:34 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:00 except the authors of anonftp servers, which regularly get compromised and have their source code tampered with (-: 15:39:32 redline6561 [~redline@173.160.64.57] has joined #lisp 15:41:17 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:41:23 -!- lharc2 [~user@88.131.67.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:48 http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/lisp-developer-mcna-fort-laurderdale-florida/ In case someone finds it interesting. :) 15:46:52 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@118.pool85-59-33.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:03 sykopomp: you found it interesting, eh? 15:48:44 Xach: I'm already working there! 15:48:53 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:06 don't put people off sykopomp, hehe 15:49:21 sykopomp: live the dream 15:50:06 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-59.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:50:09 working on it, and packing my worldly belongings in a UHaul in the process. 15:51:28 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:02 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-3.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:52:55 Bring some snow with you. 15:53:49 Go sykopomp go! 15:53:59 Plenty of snow here, no lisp jobs though 15:54:12 sykopomp: PS: Since there's no information and I'm curious, what is the point/what are the design goals for clutter? 15:54:16 :P 15:54:31 redline6561: /join #clutter 15:54:40 sykopomp: Thanks. 15:59:34 -!- blandest` [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:02:09 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:11 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:03:00 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:03:26 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:38 so. a silly url shortener in cl: http://jofr.li/gY 16:04:15 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:04:40 morning #lispians 16:04:55 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 *Xach* has a non-public l1sp.org url shortener for the meeting calendar tweets 16:06:28 heh 16:07:08 I have no idea if jofr.li's hash function is at all good, but in my tests it didn't look too horrible. 16:09:42 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:38 mitre_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 16:14:46 benny [~benny@i577A8BC8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:21:13 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:23:00 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:24:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:24:56 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 16:26:09 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 16:27:19 enupten [~neptune@117.192.80.44] has joined #lisp 16:28:28 Xach: yay, http://ioforms.org 16:29:22 cool. 16:30:37 redline65611 [~redline@173.160.64.57] has joined #lisp 16:31:02 dto1: Keep kicking ass and taking names! :) 16:31:05 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:50 reserving names and putting web sites on them 16:31:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:10 -!- redline6561 [~redline@173.160.64.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:54 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:39 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 16:41:35 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:43:23 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:43:35 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:32 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:56 ziga` [~user@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has joined #lisp 16:51:30 -!- astertronisticon [~astertron@ip70-181-196-121.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51:43 ivenkys [~ivenkys@unaffiliated/ivenkys] has joined #lisp 16:52:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:54:10 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-kluqaflhdphxtasd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54:25 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:55:14 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:56:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-74.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:57:27 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:57:29 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:37 dto1: it's "Hunchentoot" not "Hutchentoot" 16:57:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:00:10 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.112.188.202] has joined #lisp 17:03:22 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@192.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:05:54 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #lisp 17:07:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:06 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 17:09:12 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:14 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:03 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.176.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11:58 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.163.192] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:20:44 tfb_ [~tfb@92.40.186.182.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:20:50 -!- tfb 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[~ppasteau@bas2-montreal42-3096486625.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:44:56 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:11 Is there an SBCL-compatible Allegro binding? 17:45:35 Phantom_Hoover: I vaguely remember seeing one a few years ago. 17:45:42 Phantom_Hoover: I haven't noticed an active one lately. 17:46:02 Phantom_Hoover: "Allegro" is bound to cause confusion in the Lisp world, unfortunately. 17:46:21 THE HORROR 17:46:35 And be hard to search for. 17:47:13 Deeply irksome. 17:47:32 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-75-47.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:48:10 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-3.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 17:50:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:58 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:51:10 -!- prip [~foo@host118-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:20 *Xach* notes cliki seems down 17:51:41 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@93.snat-111-91-106.hns.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:53 <_8david> ... and nothing of value was lost 17:53:34 *Xach* has lost drewc's number 17:57:42 tmh [6c491b13@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:57:45 Xach: cliki down? 17:57:48 oh oh. 17:57:50 ehu: aye 17:57:54 *ehu* needs to get to work. 17:58:00 Greetings from the freenode webchat client. 17:58:19 Xach: these days I should be able to do something about it too. 17:58:52 let's just hope his instructions are good enough. 17:59:42 -!- Dranik [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 18:00:35 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-204-85.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:00:55 ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.118.188] has joined #lisp 18:01:43 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:55 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.186.182.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:01:56 hm... is there a way to get trace to fire for all of the applicable methods that get called, rather than just once for calling the gf? 18:02:17 slyrus: with SBCL, on linux/x86, maybe. 18:02:22 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:42 Xach: rebooting. the machine exhausted its memory. 18:02:48 I think nikodemus pasted something like that. 18:02:54 darwin/x86-64? 18:02:58 ok 18:03:08 slyrus: don't think so. 18:03:14 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.80.44] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 18:03:18 darn 18:03:47 prip [~foo@host107-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:03:57 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-175-194.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:37 Xach: thanks for the ping! 18:04:52 they're in the process of starting up 18:04:56 (cliki and ucliki) 18:05:29 phew 18:05:35 phew? 18:05:35 what is ucliki? 18:05:43 alu's cliki/wiki 18:05:43 ehu: i can't go very long without my cliki fix! 18:05:55 hehe! 18:06:12 well, that should be fixed soon now then. 18:07:09 ucliki is a rewrite of cliki: wiki.cliki.org 18:07:37 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-235-191.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:07:56 that doesn't seem to exist 18:08:07 sorry. 18:08:10 wiki.alu.org 18:08:34 hmpf. 18:08:42 cliki still "booting" 18:09:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:42 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 18:13:45 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:12 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-141-206-131.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 18:16:08 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:59 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326427.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:04 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A5F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:28 ok. cliki back up. 18:19:03 *Xach* gets his fix 18:20:12 anybody know libraries that allow me to do this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117973 18:20:19 HTML as just s-exprs? 18:20:24 maybe some powerful macros? 18:20:27 devinus: cl-who does something like that. 18:20:33 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:35 oh nice 18:20:44 devinus: it uses keywords, but otherwise looks very similar to what you wrote. 18:21:56 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:24:50 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:29 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:59 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:28:59 I'm finally getting around to using ASDF2 on Win7 with LispWorks. I've always had the latest ASDF repository but was not using the new repository configuration. 18:29:58 Anyway, I'm looking through the code and notice that it looks for user-configuration-directories are in :common-appdata and system-configuration-directories in :local-appdata. This seems backwards to me. 18:30:42 tmh: My impression is that ASDF2 is lightly tested on windows, but Fare is receptive to bug reports with patches attached. 18:31:30 what about bug reports without the patch? 18:31:50 The usual answer is "I don't have Windows so I can't do anything for you, patches welcome" 18:32:06 hehe, seems fair enough 18:32:17 Xach: Cool. I'll work with it for a while in a local git branch and when I think it is working like it should I'll send patches. 18:34:17 dang, what's with lisp projects and LGPL o.O 18:34:55 devinus, It's quite often LLGPL 18:35:04 or MIT 18:35:37 -!- tmh [6c491b13@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 18:36:13 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 18:36:18 Guthur: indeed 18:36:32 yay for more license proliferation ... 18:37:15 ya, could be worse I suppose 18:37:23 devinus: There's also the FOO package from Practical Common Lisp for generating HTML code. 18:37:38 reb`: oh nice 18:39:14 devinus, Any particular issue with LLGPL? 18:39:59 Guthur: nah, i just try to avoid *GPL licenses for both practical and less-than-practical reasons 18:40:21 fair enough 18:41:25 ok, so i know parenscript is sort of the go-to library for working with JS as s-exprs, what about CSS? 18:41:36 (trying to get the "full" experience) 18:42:20 devinus, there is css-lite 18:42:43 I have found s-expr CSS less than satisfactory though 18:42:46 YMMV 18:42:52 interesting 18:43:09 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:43:46 It wasn't dreadful, just didn't seem to be getting much benefit from it. 18:44:12 yaclml also does a good job at generating html outputs. 18:48:04 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:49:00 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:49:46 Lori [~lj@cl-115.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:07 has anybody worked wiht both hunchentoot and kpax? 18:50:49 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:44 i guess kpax : hunchentoot :: RoR : apache ? 18:52:39 tmh [6c491b13@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 18:53:03 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:53:08 I hadn't seen kpax before 18:53:19 or how about 18:53:23 weblocks : hunchentoot :: RoR : apach 18:53:29 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:53:30 weblocks is probably more in line with what you're talking about. 18:53:37 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 18:53:43 i know ive heard weblocks and ucw being recommended around here 18:54:14 ucw is more stripped down than weblocks, but many people consider it's implementation of continuations better. 18:54:27 interesting 18:54:33 -!- Lori [~lj@cl-115.lis-01.pt.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:55 weblocks is definitely the most active cl web framework. 18:55:29 there's also 'core server' which was forked from ucw 18:55:58 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-75-47.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:57:59 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:16 surrounder [~surrounde@dhcp-077-249-149-030.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:02:14 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:39 mheld [~mheld@166.186.168.228] has joined #lisp 19:03:09 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:05:35 -!- ziga` [~user@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:43 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-193.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:06:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:28 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.177.89.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:52 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:54 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.111.1] has joined #lisp 19:09:16 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:18 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.204] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 19:10:47 mheld_ [~mheld@74.61.205.248] has joined #lisp 19:11:12 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.112.188.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:45 -!- mheld [~mheld@166.186.168.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:12:45 -!- mheld_ is now known as mheld 19:13:35 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-166-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:44 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:58 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-175-194.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:23:27 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:53 mheld_ [~mheld@173-144-108-102.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:22 -!- mheld [~mheld@74.61.205.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:27:22 -!- mheld_ is now known as mheld 19:28:33 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:28:41 Does anybody have any experience getting Semantic as shipped with emacs-23.2 working with Common Lisp? 19:29:11 davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:06 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:46 emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:18 why would one want to? 19:36:09 A decent question. Since Semantic is the "future" of Emacs tags support, I wanted to be able to have tags somehow understand CL packages, which straight etags/SLIME doesn't do so well. 19:37:01 -!- emef0 [~user@c-67-183-86-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:21 why would anyone want to use etags when any decent implementation provides cross-referencing? 19:37:29 But it doesn't seem that there is a CL parser for Semantic from what I've been able to dig up, so this would be a bit more work than I have time too. 19:37:51 horze [~kim@c-711f72d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:37:56 Hmmm. Does "using XREF" count? 19:37:56 boscop_ [~boscop@g230087110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:16 ABCL is a little weak in this area from what I've been able to ascertain. 19:38:44 i don't consider ABCL worth using 19:39:03 -!- horze [~kim@c-711f72d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:07 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:21 so even if i were to deploy on ABCL, i'd develop using something more pleasant 19:39:22 ziga` [~user@BSN-61-11-179.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:46 stassats: or you could submit a cross referencer. 19:40:40 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055077131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:41:03 naujas [a@78-58-78-247.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 19:41:07 i bet it wouldn't be the only problem to solve to get it to the level of SBCL 19:41:21 i've ported some numerical C++ code to SBCL and runtime ratio is somewhere around 1.3.. really great :) 19:41:43 of course my definition of "pleasant" is mine 19:42:02 easyE: the lisp image understands that well enough that I wish my etags systems worked as well as my lisp systems /w M-. 19:42:27 http://imagetwist.com/lyz1x3okhl0y/sakes_1_.jpg.html 19:42:27 -!- naujas [a@78-58-78-247.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 19:42:49 -!- mheld [~mheld@173-144-108-102.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:18 Fade: Right. There's no question that Emacs needs a little more support around tags. But what I've tried to understand of Semantic, I don't get the feeling that it is the solution. 19:43:38 -!- boscop_ is now known as boscop 19:43:45 i know etags supports common lisp, but I've never used it. 19:43:55 /w slime, M-. "just works" 19:44:19 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-45-202.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 19:44:29 well, almost always. 19:44:29 there are also things like who-calls, who-macroexpands, etc. 19:44:50 *nod* 19:45:10 although i haven't got into habit of using them 19:45:28 i've used them rarely, usually when trying to grok foreign code. 19:45:42 We got a nice set of recommendations from tcr on how to extend ABCL in this direction. Getting the compiler to properly annotate the JVM byte code is a bit tricky. 19:46:16 ehu: is it possible in abcl to restart a frame? 19:46:32 weird. I just used defstruct and defun to prototype something, and am now switching to CLOS classes and generics now that I know what I need... 19:46:38 stassats: nope. 19:46:50 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.255.86] has joined #lisp 19:46:50 how would one define a fixnum constant in such a way it could be used in declaring array sizes in code (declare ((simple-array double-float (const) ) x)) ? Like C's #DEFINE 19:46:54 will it be ever possible, given jvm? 19:47:04 Everything is possible. 19:47:07 ziga`: deftype or #. 19:47:15 will it be ever feasible? 19:47:21 But we might need to really rethink the compiler. 19:47:42 pkhuong: deftyping arrays? didn't think of it 19:47:43 stassats: it's probably feasible. 19:48:01 with enough debug settings. 19:48:14 ziga`: that'd save a lot more typing, and would probably document the intent better. 19:48:15 you wouldn't want it at maximum speed settings 19:48:50 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-viabgsqaieuoeeha] has joined #lisp 19:48:51 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 19:48:56 pkhuong: and compilers know how to optimize it I persume? thanks 19:49:07 ziga`: it's just macroexpansion. 19:49:14 great 19:49:32 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.111.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:39 When Clozure CL advertises Linux on PPC, does that include a freescale MPC8533E processor? 19:49:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:12 does that cpu have a floating point unit in it? 19:50:14 i use frame-restarting all the time in sbcl, because i don't want to lose my data (or redo steps) when an error happens, so i just fix the bug and restart a frame 19:50:38 i wish i could do that with every application... 19:50:41 Fade: I'll check, looking at the product page now. 19:51:05 ccl has worked on every ppc/linux combo I've tried, but that has been limited to apple and ibm gear. 19:51:48 "Double-precision embedded scalar and vector floating-point APUs" 19:51:59 give it a shot 19:52:20 francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has joined #lisp 19:52:20 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-viabgsqaieuoeeha] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:35 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-hvkekvhwxawrblpk] has joined #lisp 19:53:05 I purchased a little network area storage box for backups and git repos. It runs linux and I've been pleasantly surprised with the community support and amount of modding people do with it. 19:53:18 sweet 19:53:32 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-hvkekvhwxawrblpk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:53 entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has joined #lisp 19:53:58 pinkwerks [2679e0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.224.251] has joined #lisp 19:54:12 stassats: Ever thought of making your own lisp OS? 19:54:43 *Fade* throws out the obligatory sbcl-os reference 19:54:48 counters with movitz 19:54:56 detours back to reality 19:55:07 *madnificent* would want a lisp os, but not create one 19:55:33 pjb: are you around? I saw your message on cll about Objective-CL, have few basic questions... 19:56:06 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:24 francogrex: You could post them to comp.lang.lisp, so everyone can get the benefit of the discussion! 19:56:52 Xach: ok, but they are very general and basic 19:57:39 Hexstream: i only dreamt "how cool would it be if it were already ready", but i'm sane enough to not engage in such endeavour 19:57:57 or "almost ready" 19:58:22 Ok then, it's decided. I'll make a lisp OS within the next 20 years. 19:58:26 Ugh, looks like it would work if I had the correct version of glib. 19:58:42 Hexstream: substitute years with something shorter please :) 19:59:00 Hexstream: right, figures like this is what discourages me 19:59:42 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:46 madnificent: 10 seems to be more optimistic 19:59:53 *tmh* tries to convince himself to focus and not go off on a tangent of compiling ccl on this little box until there is actually a use for it. 20:00:54 Well, it may or may not take much less time than that. I don't know if I'll be 100x or 1000x by then. 20:01:13 you're multiplying? 20:01:30 100x or 1000x the skills of an average programmer. 20:01:38 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:28 oh... 20:02:39 stassats: who knows what drivers will look like in 10 years 20:03:12 madnificent: one could steal drivers from somewhere else 20:03:23 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:28 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:03:31 like a hybrid of bsd and lisp 20:04:03 If I make a lisp OS, I'll do lots of "clean breaks" of backwards compatibility and stuff. 20:04:23 speaking of which, tcr, where is the teclo-pr0n? 20:04:37 backwards compatibility is what holding progress! 20:05:04 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:06 stassats: but it also keeps your software running 20:05:10 Resounding yes! I want to keep the great parts and kill the less-than-optimal parts when I can. 20:05:26 like... loop? 20:05:29 LOL 20:05:33 I was about to say that. 20:05:43 In a few weeks you'll see exactly what I mean by that. 20:05:46 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-118-190-31.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:02 actually, the kernel might onot matter that much. If you can make everything but the kernel in lisp, then you may get the feel and the drivers 20:06:04 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:20 I already know exactly how to do it, I have a clear mental model and know how to implement it pretty much down to details. I just have a big implementation and documentation job to do. 20:06:22 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-205.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:55 madnificent: i hold that point of view, let's write applications first 20:07:29 killer applications would be better, surely 20:08:15 This system has barely anything on it. What would ldd and ldconfig come with? The GCC compiler collection? 20:09:40 stassats: more things like little scripts that make life easier 20:09:55 stassats: and probably extend some lisp with the idea of security 20:10:02 s/idea/concept 20:10:14 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.255.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:27 An, binutils 20:10:33 s/An/Ah/ 20:10:42 madnificent: like bonds and stock? 20:10:55 francogr` [~user@109.130.64.62] has joined #lisp 20:11:08 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex` 20:12:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:12:29 -!- francogrex` is now known as francogrex 20:12:48 stassats: like the right to use certain computer resources, and only those 20:13:13 nah, you can't make profits of those 20:14:06 baoist [~baoist@c-98-240-174-169.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:44 -!- felideon [~felideon@173.221.53.122.nw.nuvox.net] has left #lisp 20:18:07 Okay, I'm punting on using CCL on this little box for now. Need to focus. 20:23:55 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:32 -!- knobo [~user@138.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:47 I don't understand TRUENAME. On LispWorks, (truename "") => #P"C:/Windows/system32" On CCL, (truename "") => [The directory that CCL was launched from.] 20:29:27 *default-pathname-defaults*? 20:30:02 (directory "*") 20:30:04 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-210-54.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:09 mega1: That's what I initially thought, but in both cases, *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS* is an empty string. 20:30:16 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-146-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:30:57 what bugs me is all the different places the startup script is to be found between lisps on windows 20:32:28 I've never seen *d-p-d* empty on unix 20:32:36 -!- symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:54 mega1: Yeah, I'm on Win7. I've never seen it set on Win7. 20:33:10 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas2-montreal42-3096486625.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:32 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33:40 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@213.246.118.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:34:07 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-86-63.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.196.140] has joined #lisp 20:35:25 mega1: not a ccl user, i see. 20:36:43 does ccl do that on unix? Neglect or is there a reason? 20:37:13 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:37:23 mega1: it does. i talked about it a while ago when it mixed up quicklisp, but i can't remember the conversation very well. 20:38:08 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:41:04 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e257.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:11 The reason I've descended down this rabbit hole is that (default-source-registry) in ASDF2 returns (:directory #P"C:/Windows/system32/") as the first source registry. I'm pretty sure that's not the desired result. 20:42:15 MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has joined #lisp 20:42:24 LISP is what thoughts are made out of. 20:43:04 MindVirus: only from 1950-1970. since then, Lisp is the thing. 20:47:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:27 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:48:35 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:48:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-163.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:49:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fibimyssydbpurbb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:13 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-193.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:59 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 20:52:12 Is it effective to represent associative arrays with linked lists? 20:53:19 MindVirus: up to a certain size, yes. 20:53:27 Xach: So not really. 20:53:42 MindVirus: Yes, below a certain size. 20:54:00 MindVirus: alists and plists are useful examples. 20:54:10 the "certain size" I've heard kicked around most is around 10 or so entries 20:54:27 Let's try millions. 20:54:49 heck, it'll _work_, depends on your definition of "effective" :) 20:54:49 Below a certain size the small constant factors make it faster than something like a hash table 20:54:51 Could linked lists be used to emulate trees? 20:55:02 drdo: Understood. 20:55:06 MindVirus: Yes. 20:55:28 MindVirus: lists are already binary trees 20:56:14 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:14 prxq: I vaguely understand. 20:56:30 sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 20:56:47 If you want a graph, you can represent it for example with the CAR being the value at that node, and the CDR being a list of the nodes that node is connected to 20:56:52 instead of (item . rest), (left-branch . right-branch) 20:57:23 Interesting. 20:57:47 So then it is possible to generalize the concepts of lists and trees. 20:58:01 a cons cell is just a 2-tuple 20:58:09 a list is a tree is a graph 20:58:17 Draggor [~Draggor@75-150-231-161-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:05 drdo: What specifically is a graph? 20:59:17 wikipedia is over there ==> 20:59:54 I know what a graph is in terms of graph theory. 21:00:01 That is, a collection of edges and vertices. 21:00:11 I don't understand the relation to data structures. 21:00:22 MindVirus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_Algorithms is a good book to buy and read. 21:02:09 how much are the so-called ansi-tests to be trusted? The "latest" svn version showed a lot more failures than aprevious one I had (175 for sbcl and 147 for ecl) 21:03:01 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.196.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:03:02 francogrex: trusted for what purpose? 21:04:00 *vsync* resumes coding on his xmas vacation project 21:04:31 Xach, well as a measure of good compliance 21:04:39 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.161.142] has joined #lisp 21:05:14 francogrex: i have heard no complaints about their utility in that regard. 21:06:11 ok. there is also a dir named "beyond ansi" there; don't know what it is based on as a gold standard 21:06:12 francogrex: when paul was working on them, there used to be spikes in the failures, as he came up with more and more things that were noncompliant in implementations 21:07:04 -!- adeht [~death@cattle-driver.no-ip.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:16 antifuchs: ok. what I do (it's like a mania of mine) whenever I compile a new version of an implementation I run the ansi-tests on them, butw as the first time I get this SVN version 21:07:31 he got quite a reputation for being cruel in unearthing edge cases that implementors would rather forget about (: 21:07:41 francogrex: Where did you find an SVN version? 21:07:41 hah 21:08:14 and that's their purpose, AIUI: highlight the areas that fail. I'd be more suspect of the test suite if it had no failures (: 21:08:33 by a google search really. here: http://common-lisp.net/project/ansi-test/ 21:08:49 ok 21:10:42 land of lip 21:10:47 land of lisp is a fun book :) 21:11:03 -!- Caffeine [~satanama@23-73-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [] 21:11:10 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:14 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:14:06 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:14:14 is it? I think gigamonkey was one of the reviewers of that book 21:16:22 francogrex: neat, I didn't know that ansi-tests were still maintained. the commit logs say tcr contributed GO tag tests some 6 weeks ago 21:16:34 *Xach* also did not know 21:16:46 ehu: more publicity! 21:16:59 these should be available via quicklisp (-: 21:17:06 6 weeks? 21:17:07 Xach: btw, jofr.li uses quicklisp (: 21:17:19 that must have been more like 6months 21:17:19 tcr: at least that was when they were committed (: 21:17:58 antifuchs: ooh, yes. open an issue? 21:18:02 *Xach* will try to remember later 21:18:11 good, so that source is trustworthy. I suppse they'll be in quicklisp then 21:18:14 Xach: I wasn't exactly serious (: 21:18:21 Xach: but why the hell not (-: 21:18:27 Xach, tcr: hehe. well, between ABCL and trying to earn some money, I haven't done much maintenance on them. However, Sam commits contributions every now and then. 21:19:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:19:15 antifuchs: indeed, why the hell not. 21:19:26 i mean, if asdf-install is in there... 21:19:54 I remember running them on versions of SBCL that would crash & burn fiercely when some tests ran (: 21:20:18 hmm, ah yes. 21:20:30 i don't suppose they are asdf-driven? i will check sometime. 21:20:37 that was for xophe's excellent "n-thousand failures in 0.8, close to 0 failures in 0.9" graph at the first eclm. awesome illustration (: 21:20:58 antifuchs: yes I had to fix a bit in some files 21:21:23 I think a format error was in the rt file (but was not in an older version) 21:21:39 which common lisp implementation do you advise for a beginner? 21:21:50 bsod1: doesn't really matter 21:21:56 all of them 21:21:57 bsod1: it depends on the operating system 21:22:07 or any one 21:22:10 For windows, linux, or mac: sbcl! 21:22:15 antifuchs: it's ubuntu 10.04 21:22:30 Xach: sbcl on os x has some problems with threads 21:22:37 then yeah, use any of the freely available ones. I'd recommend sbcl in particular 21:22:49 drdo: Doesn't bother me much. 21:23:03 Xach: I use ccl on os x 21:23:11 and how can I setup emacs and repl for sbcl? is there a package for this? 21:23:15 sbcl on windows doesn't thread at all 21:23:24 (any progress there?) 21:23:28 bsod1: I use quicklisp for that. there's a slime helper that sets things up, partly. 21:23:40 *Xach* must go and can't help further, sorry 21:23:47 Xach: ok, thanks 21:23:49 Phoodus: yes, there was... I think a few months ago, somebody posted a progress report on sbcl-devel 21:24:07 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 21:24:10 I use slime from cvs, i just update it from time to time 21:24:55 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: "Anail nachroc, uthvass bethudd, dochiel dienve."] 21:24:57 bsod1: best to download sbcl from sbcl.org, slime from cvs, and follow the instructions in the readme (I think they are there) 21:25:03 is there a package for setting up slime easily? emacs and it's addons are very hard to install 21:25:05 I like ccl, myself. (Big surprise there.) 21:25:10 bsod1: for best results, use emacs23 21:25:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-69-210.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:25:17 bsod1: that is not true 21:25:22 bsod1: slime is really easy to install 21:26:03 Just copy the 4 lines from the documentation and stuff them in your .emacs and you're set 21:27:44 drdo: actually I only used emacs for a few minutes, where can I find my .emacs file? should I create it? 21:28:08 sure, make it 21:28:11 adeht [void@cattle-driver.no-ip.info] has joined #lisp 21:28:22 drdo: where? 21:28:26 emacs reads from a few files by default 21:28:32 .emacs is one of them 21:28:36 bsod1: better still, make a directory .emacs.d in your home, and create an init.el in there 21:28:36 bsod1: in your home directory 21:28:54 ok, and what is init.el for? 21:29:00 bsod1: exactly the same 21:29:06 bsod1: the standard place is ~/.emacs 21:29:12 it's just one of the files emacs loads up on start up 21:29:14 bsod1: for initialization stuff. What is usually in .emacs 21:29:31 madnificent: I don't have ~./emacs but I have ~/.emacs.d (folder) 21:29:45 bsod1: paste the lines in ~/.emacs , it'll work 21:29:53 bsod1: any of them is fine 21:30:09 bsod1: right, then open init.el in there, and paste the paths and so on in there :-) 21:30:10 erm, is there a way to use slime in vim :o 21:30:11 bsod1: and restart your emacs session (that's the easiest way) 21:30:36 bsod1: no. there is slimv, but it is a very crippled version of slime 21:30:38 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:54 bsod1: there are alternatives vor vim, though they are apparently less good (emacs < slime > lisp seems to work really well), you can try them 21:31:21 bsod1: won't take you more than 5 min to get this up and running 21:31:22 yea, emacs is like official lisp editor, I don't know why.. 21:31:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:31:41 emacs is THE editor. 21:31:44 bsod1: well, you have the chance to find out! 21:31:51 Where is minion? 21:31:59 bsod1: most people don't go back once they learned emacs 21:32:01 bsod1: well, it's mostly written in lisp so that makes it convenient 21:32:01 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:32:29 madnificent: and lots of people say the same for vim, I'm using vim for a few months now, for python 21:32:44 madnificent: and I really love it, I wish I could use it for lisp 21:32:47 Blkt [~user@93-45-213-247.ip104.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:32:50 emacs is just so nice and easy 21:33:00 and so insanely powerful 21:33:23 that's weird, the common-lisp.net MX deferred my email to slime-devel 21:33:24 bsod1: better use vim. Don't let the addiction get at you. 21:33:27 prxq: It's as powerful as you want it to be :) 21:33:31 Anywho, minion needs to be updated to handle these questions that repeatedly come up, like lisp in vim, lisp OS, etc. 21:33:37 does it have some greylisting or so forth (i do have SPF on my domain properly even) 21:33:39 bsod1: I used to use VIm. I don't think it's bad at all, yet I prefer emacs now... 21:33:44 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.204] has joined #lisp 21:33:55 vsync: as far as I know, yes, it has greylisting 21:34:23 the message was vague... 451-69.55.236.109 is not yet authorized to deliver mail from 451 to . Please try later. 21:34:33 greylisting. 21:34:39 ok thanks 21:35:27 the setup i use (milter-greylist) mentions greylisting explicitly (it's not like spambots are smart enough to read it) and allows to bypass if SPF is on 21:36:12 I think for historical reasons also, emacs has a very significant value as it was developed by you know whom 21:37:19 vsync: I don 21:37:52 vsync: I don't think that feature is as well known as it might be. 21:38:16 francogrex: the main reason i use it is for the great white background! 21:38:34 i mean come on, emacs rocks hard 21:38:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:40 *jtza8* wonders, "Is prxq sarcastic, or is prxq being mystical?" 21:40:45 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:10 -!- replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:15 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-146-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:18 So I'm down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out what the proper directory should be for (default-source-registry) in LispWorks on Windows. 21:44:49 does microsoft define a default place for such things? 21:44:49 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:45:01 It's not working correctly at the moment because it depends on *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*, which is an empty pathname. 21:45:45 Fade: In lispworks, at least, I would be happy with (user-homedir-pathname), but not sure that is the intent. 21:45:50 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:46:38 I think SBCL set it to CWD at launch, if I remember correctly. 21:50:17 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:17 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:50:17 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 21:51:44 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:17 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:53:41 Since I seem to be one of the few using ASDF on Windows, do I get to set the convention for the default-source-registry? 21:54:07 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:54:15 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 21:54:56 You could also set the convention that no one uses windows by not using it :) 21:55:51 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:56:18 drdo: This is where I invoke the "Mortgage Defense". 21:56:55 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:12 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:17 tmh: too big to fail *cough* 21:59:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-69-210.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:35 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:52 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:04 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:07 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 22:01:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:03:59 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:04:25 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:28 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:05:35 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas2-montreal42-3096486625.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-40-175.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:37 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 22:10:13 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:11 mejja [~chatzilla@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:12:03 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:13:03 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e257.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:14:19 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has joined #lisp 22:18:25 tcr: maybe you have an idea since you have been contributing to the project: the "beyond-ansi" tests are based on what exactly? 22:18:38 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:07 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:19:27 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.64.62] has joined #lisp 22:20:13 francogrex: The stuff is not written out explicitly in the standard, but kind of behaviour an experienced common lisp user would expect? 22:20:25 entropi [~entropi@nat/intel/x-ikkzthkldctllzct] has joined #lisp 22:20:34 Can't quite recall, look at the tests already there 22:20:36 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:20:36 pnq [~nick@AC81914F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 ok thx 22:21:26 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:41 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 22:22:30 Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:23:01 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-139-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:24:30 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:18 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-61-11-179.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:35 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:32:20 anyone have experience with :DB-READER in clsql? it claims to take a simple 1-to-1 function but when using a simple find-symbol dealie it complains that the slot reader is of an unusual type 22:34:41 -!- MindVirus [~mindvirus@unaffiliated/mindvirus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:16 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 22:37:35 ahh, i was quoting it... DEF-VIEW-CLASS doesn't eval most args it seems 22:38:29 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:55 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-219-19.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:00 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:06 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:42:53 entropix [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has joined #lisp 22:43:23 escapist1984 [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 22:43:26 -!- entropi [~entropi@nat/intel/x-ikkzthkldctllzct] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:11 Every time I try to look at the guts of the pretty-printer, I feel like I'm facing a saving roll vs. insanity. 22:45:50 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F493.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:46:52 CthuLhisp? GreatOldLisp? 22:47:54 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:49:59 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:44 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:22 -!- muhdik_ [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:52:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-20-119-246-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:16 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:53:19 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54:50 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:55:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:34 rtoym: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117982 <- the result of my backend for a New Jersey-style SERIES (at (safety 0)) :). Now to write a front end! 23:00:00 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:16 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:32 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:07:52 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81914F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:53 md1 [~user@85-135-143-96.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 23:10:25 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:58 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.163.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:00 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:20 -!- md1 [~user@85-135-143-96.adsl.slovanet.sk] has left #lisp 23:11:23 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:24 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:23:19 hi 23:24:09 please help, I'm trying to do a circuit simulator using lisp, I wrote a program to create a graph from nodes and branches: http://pastebin.com/Y0jXG0J5 23:24:56 now I've to create matrices for store R, L, C and V, I values. Are there Lisp function for linear algebra? Tx 23:28:05 something like LAPACK ? 23:28:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:07 francogrex: yes, matrix inversion and multiplication for scalar and/or vector 23:29:36 ok when I did some matrix manipulations I coded them from scratch 23:29:44 but why don't you use maxima? 23:30:08 francogrex: for solving circuits? 23:30:55 for the linear algebra 23:31:35 may I call maxima functions from my Lisp program? 23:32:13 there is an underlying lisp in maxima. but anyway here is what I have in my archives : SAPAmatrix.lisp 23:32:44 lib.stat.cmu.edu/sapaclisp/matrix.lisp 23:33:08 -!- vasile [~vasile@john-marshall.sflc.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:25 francogrex: http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2007-08/msg00863.html 23:34:11 yes I know, but use the lib I showed you should be good enough for what you need 23:34:45 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:53 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:10 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:35:17 francogrex: thanks 23:35:39 but if you want to use maxima+lisp (for other things) use the lisp that is within maxima (I think it is a version of gcl) 23:35:49 me345 [~me345@adsl-71-131-133-80.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:54 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-70.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:36:26 I can't remember how to jump from the maxima environment to the underlying lisp but it should be easy to find in the manual 23:36:33 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 23:36:52 francogrex: I've got maxima-src (debian package) with all .lisp files :) 23:37:58 good, it may help you but dn't reinvent the wheel... really think about using maxima as it is, it may be sufficient for you 23:38:24 or for now the SAPAmatrix may be good enough 23:42:27 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-176-173.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 23:42:49 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:46:05 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 23:48:11 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:26 Posterdati: I'd use some binding to BLAS and LAPACK. 23:50:31 ok, so cl-redis is not really the way to go, it seems 23:50:58 strange function names, and it doesn't implement the binary safe protocol 23:53:43 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:58:24 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 23:59:22 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:43 antifuchs: I think lredis is "binary safe"