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i.e be running on linux but dump an EXE for windows without doing something like running sbcl.exe in wine 01:15:03 dto: not at all? 01:15:09 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 01:16:15 schmx: hmm :) 01:18:13 dto: I don't think you can even get your x86-32 looniks sbcl do dump a 64 bit image 01:18:27 mind you, I could be completely wrong here :) 01:18:46 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:21:31 -!- vasile_ [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:31 -!- vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:36 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [] 01:22:59 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 DarthShrine_ [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 01:24:06 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:11 -!- DarthShrine_ is now known as DarthShrine 01:24:22 dto: modulo a time machine, impossible. 01:24:31 pkhuong: okay. just checking 01:25:29 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:26:11 DarthShrine: hey man! 01:26:28 schmx = schme? 01:28:38 DarthShrine: ya budday! 01:30:17 can one specify the number of dimensions in a simple-array type declaration 01:30:38 something like '(* *) 01:30:59 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-110-61.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 01:31:08 How about that then :) 01:33:28 oh yeah, without the quote 01:33:33 hehe so close 01:33:37 DarthShrine: You abandoned python?! 01:34:33 DarthShrine: Was it you that pointed me to that scheme in fixnum days? 01:35:58 I didn't abandon it. And I don't know if I pointed you to that. :) 01:38:28 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:33 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:38:36 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:38:50 DarthShrine: See I thought it was Patzy, but he denies. And I can't think of anyone else but you with the brain power to grok scheme so I figured it'd be you. and I thought I need to ask you but oh well too bad you left. and now you show up here. 01:38:54 crazy 01:39:08 :) 01:40:54 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:57 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:59 mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 01:44:08 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 01:45:11 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:47:18 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:59 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 01:50:48 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@189.114.206.39.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 01:51:32 -!- _pw_ [~user@123.112.76.250] has left #lisp 01:52:35 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:52:50 qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.103.56] has joined #lisp 01:55:35 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:02 paul0 [~paulogeye@189.114.206.39.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:07:46 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:14:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-5-51.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:15:11 plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 02:16:00 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:41 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:17:37 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:48:39 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:16 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 02:55:57 14 02:56:11 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@adsl-243-31-234.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01:38 -!- boscop [~boscop@g226224145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:27 boscop [~boscop@g227152232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:38 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-227-124.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:06 -!- plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:18:02 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:26:24 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:38 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:30:36 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:32:38 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:15 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:29 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has left #lisp 03:38:59 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 03:42:33 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:52 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:45:00 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:46:48 I can't get parenscript to do instanceOf correctly - it wants to do instanceof() as though it were a function :P 03:49:02 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-71.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:52:22 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-82-165.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:57:42 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-45-189.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:59 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:09 Anyone with more experience have any ideas on that? 03:59:37 I suppose I could define a helper function in raw js 03:59:47 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-114-224.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:41 But in my experience with parenscript that's usually the wrong approach, since parenscript tends to allow for everything I'm trying to do anyway 04:02:20 janissary [~bleh@user-1120vmg.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:54 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:09:13 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:10:54 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-235-241.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:34 How can I change the read time of the slime connection? 04:13:42 How can I change the *readtable* of the slime connection? 04:14:19 *pjb* has swapped out all parenscript knowledge. 04:14:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:15:02 I have a readtable with some specific reader macros, and I don't know how to have slime use it. 04:18:33 with SETF? 04:18:39 (well, it works for me 04:18:39 ) 04:19:19 No it doesn't work. 04:20:08 Specifically, I've got a reader macro for #\[, which parses the text between [ and ], and in which toto:tata is specifically NOT the syntax of a qualified symbol. But slime still reports an error about inexisting package TOTO. 04:20:46 It should also be noted that while reading the text between [], by reader macro sets the *readtable* to a readtable with the case to preserve... 04:21:59 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-235-241.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:14 what do people think of Common Blocks as a name for my visual common lisp multimedia authoring thing? 04:26:56 dto: perhaps the word common should not be abused. 04:27:15 vimaut? 04:27:20 what would be abusive about that 04:27:47 dto: the fact that all the programs and library written in Common Lisp use the term "Common" or the prefix "cl-". 04:27:48 like Pythis and PyThat for pythony projects 04:27:55 oh i see. 04:27:55 Yes, like. 04:27:59 well. 04:28:08 another name i was thinking of is "ioforms" 04:28:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:29:30 dto: for one thing, their just a project, not authoritative of the CL standard or community. For another thing, this usage deprives themselves of the potential for a wider recognition. Photoshop is not MacPhoto, and happily since it runs also on MS-Windows and perhaps other systems. 04:29:42 dto: Don't be afraid to a name by yourself. 04:30:02 hmm. 04:30:17 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:35 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 04:30:37 dto: on the other hand, if the application is widely successful, we won't mind the exposure coming from its association with Common Lisp in its name ;-) 04:30:56 hmm. 04:31:01 wellllllllll 04:31:45 dto: honestly, if it's a standalone application, I'd rather choose a unique, distinctive name. 04:32:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:34:15 ok. 04:35:04 ioforms .... 04:35:06 dto: it can also be a pure proper name, without any meaning. If you just happen to like the phonems. But first check that it has no meaning in any known language... 04:35:46 how about Farnsworth :) 04:35:51 no meaning 04:36:08 3.4e6 google hits. 04:36:15 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-44-109.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:20 ioforms has less than 2e3. 04:37:55 i'm liking ioforms 04:38:04 it sort of looks like an anagram of informatics 04:38:25 dto: it makes me think of Input/Output. Is that related to authoring and multimedia? 04:38:31 yeah. 04:38:35 Good. 04:38:39 also my prototype system is inspired by the IO language 04:38:43 and FORMS evokes GUI 04:38:47 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 04:38:47 but also colored shapes 04:38:53 ioForms then. 04:38:54 and there was a kids product Colorforms 04:39:17 where you take pieces shaped like smurfs and sort of stick them on the pages of books to make different scenes 04:39:26 Once upon a time, I was writting screen drivers for a company named Io for the moon. We had a nice logo. 04:40:24 iForms 04:41:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorforms 04:41:37 Question, I come from a C background and I keep wanting to optimise my lispcode to pieces. Is that 'lispey'? Or should I just leave it the way it is? My current project actually needs a little bit more performance.. 04:41:47 oooo planetz 04:41:50 Use a profiler. :) 04:41:58 sea4ever: there are ways to optimize lisp code. But indeed, use the profiler first. 04:42:16 sea4ever: you need to know lisp well to be able to optimize it. Also, it's rather implementation dependant. 04:42:18 It's perfectly lispy to optimize where necessary. 04:42:30 But ONLY where it's necessary. 04:43:03 sea4ever: also, lisp allows for some very powerful high level optimization techniques. For example, memoization. Run-time compilation. etc. 04:43:53 Ok, thanks for those suggestions Zhivago and pjb. 04:44:35 sea4ever: have a look at http://www.cliki.net/Performance 04:51:10 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 04:53:36 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:53 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 04:59:45 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:10 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.68.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:07:49 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.150.225] has joined #lisp 05:08:33 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:21:02 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:50 sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has joined #lisp 05:21:59 irocai [~user@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 05:22:11 -!- sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 05:27:28 quit 05:27:30 -!- irocai [~user@203.156.243.14] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:29:07 irocai [~user@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 05:31:28 -!- irocai [~user@203.156.243.14] has quit [Client Quit] 05:32:11 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-82-165.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32:25 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:34:08 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-254.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:34:41 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.150.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:35:23 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #lisp 05:36:03 evening 05:36:10 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.60.206] has joined #lisp 05:38:26 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:41:37 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.160.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:42:31 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:42:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:42 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:43:14 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.115] has joined #lisp 05:47:22 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:52:57 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55:40 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.158.33] has joined #lisp 05:59:17 -!- janissary [~bleh@user-1120vmg.dsl.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 06:05:20 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:59 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:40 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:00 churib1 [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:02 -!- Zahl [~kenneth@lnx101.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:26 Zahl [~kenneth@lnx101.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:10:26 gigamonkey: around? 06:10:57 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:14:38 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:14:55 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:15:16 lovesan [~lovesan@62.106.119.34] has joined #lisp 06:16:00 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:17:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-181-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:22:14 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-164-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:26:05 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:27:03 plage [~user@116.118.10.126] has joined #lisp 06:28:30 Yay! I am writing this from the Internet connection in my new apartment in Ho Chi Minh City! 06:29:27 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:31:12 -!- churib1 [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:31:44 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:54 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 06:33:50 -!- smka [~s@78.157.1.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:35:02 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:35:36 -!- lovesan [~lovesan@62.106.119.34] has left #lisp 06:35:47 slyrus: sort of. 06:36:01 congrats plage 06:36:27 Thanks! 06:37:15 hey gigamonkey, I'm having a problem where, as I'm parsing this tree of boxes, I'd like to choose a class from my dispatch function based on attributes of the parent box. I can't see an obvious way to do this. 06:37:30 Hmmm. 06:37:55 You mean like a tagged-binary-class except the fields you want to switch on are inherited? 06:39:41 Or you mean the enclosing box? 06:39:46 the enclosing box 06:39:54 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:40:23 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:40 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 06:40:50 So the dispatch form can be anything right? 06:41:15 ok 06:41:18 So why can't you use the *in-progress-objects* stack to figure out what you need. 06:41:37 Hmmm. Except maybe it's in the process of being read. 06:42:17 But it's been created and pushed on *in-progress-objects* 06:42:33 ah, ok. maybe that's what I needed. 06:42:35 thanks. 06:42:41 And any slots before the object whose type you're trying to determine should have been filled in. 06:43:22 Also, you may not need to use a tagged class. Perhaps just a binary type that does some dispatching. Dunno. 06:43:28 churib1 [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:18 is there any kind of Refactoring Browser stuff for Lisp? 06:48:40 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:51:49 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 06:54:01 dto: Lisp is not a language that requires such kind of tools. When you want to refactor your code, you just update your macros and let them regenerate the new code. 06:54:05 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:58:25 that's a very nice way of rationalizing away the lack of these tools (: 06:58:39 I think notepad is a very nice editor for lisp code, too. 06:58:56 We also don't need a real debugger. 06:59:35 naah (: 06:59:57 dto: the only explicit refactoring tool suite I know of is redshank 07:01:45 pjb: I dunno, I wish slime had a 'rename (gen)function/variable/...' function. 07:02:04 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:03:36 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:05:23 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-254.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:11 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-63-159.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:09:21 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.14] has joined #lisp 07:11:39 wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 07:11:39 -!- wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Changing host] 07:11:39 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 07:12:21 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.103.56] has left #lisp 07:12:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:17:10 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:22:13 Ralith: (map-source (lambda (form) (subst 'new-symbol 'old-symbol form)) "source.lisp") 07:22:27 pjb: cool; why doesn't slime have that? 07:22:31 oh right 07:22:36 :-) 07:22:37 because symbols don't correspond to bindings! 07:22:43 thus that's incredibly unsafe. 07:23:02 And it's not implemented yet. You'd need a code walker. And to deal with reader macros. 07:23:18 However, I've got something like that implemented in emacs lisp. 07:23:26 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:40 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/emacs/emacs/pjb-sources.el 07:23:52 map-sexpps 07:23:55 s/pp/p 07:24:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:25:09 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:25:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:25:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:25:14 Actually, it would be easier to write such tools, if we didn't edit text files, and we hadn't to deal with comments, etc. 07:26:01 A structured editor, which would load and save source forms with CL:READ and CL:PPRINT, would let us process the sources more easily. 07:26:10 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 07:26:26 yeah, I've been along that sort of thinking for years 07:26:36 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82C78E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:26:38 takes a lot of infrastructure to get there, though 07:26:57 since the editors themselves need to be smarter than just editing a blob of text 07:27:31 Phoodus: not really. You can go a long way with a simple structural editor. Just allow to use READ for the lowest level nodes. 07:28:01 Phoodus: I updated the plisp editor to CL, if you want to get a feel of it. 07:29:14 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/sedit/ 07:29:45 sedit is a small simple structural editor. 07:33:04 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:01 Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:35:58 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:37:13 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.182] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 good morning 07:40:58 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-hgdpcousedyzhngh] has joined #lisp 07:41:43 -!- sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:44 sea4ever_ [~sea@205.244.150.231] has joined #lisp 07:41:50 -!- sea4ever_ is now known as sea4ever 07:41:54 -!- sea4ever [~sea@205.244.150.231] has quit [Changing host] 07:41:54 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 07:42:08 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:19 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.240] has joined #lisp 07:45:38 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-138-38.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:58 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-45-189.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:23 hello mvilleneuve 07:52:36 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:24 -!- sellout [~greg@212.3.9.50] has quit [Quit: sellout] 07:59:16 I've tried Interlisp's implementation of this idea and I wasn't really convinced 08:00:03 -!- plage [~user@116.118.10.126] has left #lisp 08:02:42 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A7C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:09 mal__: what are you writing about? Structured Editing? 08:04:16 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829C09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:04:17 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:04:57 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:04:58 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.240] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:12:30 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:40 eihrul [~eihrul@80-186-154-231.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 08:13:03 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:13:21 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@80-186-154-231.elisa-mobile.fi] has left #lisp 08:14:03 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:17 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 08:14:53 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:31 ilowry 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[~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:01:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:46 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:55 Hi, I'm trying to redine read-line in here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117913 but I want 1) to rename the function as "read-line" and not "read-line-2" and remove the style warning? How can I do that? 10:04:04 don't do that 10:04:24 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EEAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:50 redefining functions in cl: is one of those things that if you want to do it, you are doing it wrong. 10:05:27 is there a 'learn lisp' or 'newbie lisp'channel ? 10:06:40 well either that or have to have remove return before every read-line and if some complex libs come with read-line it will be buggy until I go fix them myself one by one 10:06:49 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-16-98.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:54 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-39.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:07:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 10:08:15 francogrex: if you believe you've found a bug in SBCL, fix the bug in SBCL. 10:08:33 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F8F06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:31 Ralith: it's not a bug 10:09:44 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.162.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:51 you just described it as "buggy" 10:09:56 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:09:59 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:10:28 no, my code will be buggy (because of windows OS), but the read-line in sbcl is fine 10:10:52 so fix your code. 10:10:58 if it's fine, why do you need to change it? 10:11:16 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.134] has joined #lisp 10:11:19 you can do what you want by using gray streams 10:14:57 -!- rawr_jr [187d3c12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.60.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:15:11 to make it ok on windows, actually I have a read-line-with-crlf defined here works ok: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117913#1 but what I need is to name it "read-line" so that when I use a lib that uses read-lines it treats it without me changing them into read-line-with-crlf one by one 10:16:23 francogrex: you can make sbcl understand it 10:16:25 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:37 it's just a SMOP 10:16:47 or you can use flexi-streams, but it's slow 10:17:00 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:17:59 you mean I can make sbcl whenever it encounters read-line to treat it as read-line-with-crlf ? How? 10:18:13 that's for you to figure out 10:22:57 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:55 lispworks has a nice solution to this by incorporating end of line style in its definition of external-format 10:25:00 delYsid` [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:25:07 mitre_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 10:25:40 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:25:54 it's not "a nice solution", that's how it should be 10:26:10 and i'm suggesting to francogrex to add such functionality 10:26:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.3] 10:27:23 the better solution would be to go back in time and kill the inventor of crlf 10:27:53 eno__ [~eno@adsl-70-137-163-128.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:23 there have been worse abominations in that vein like VM/CMS's record based files 10:28:24 churib_ [~churib@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 10:28:24 if that were possible, we wouldn't have to suffer crlf anymore 10:28:28 Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:29:08 anyway, I think babel and flexi-streams implement crlf conversion pretty portably 10:29:41 that doesn't mean that sbcl shouldn't implement it 10:31:42 When you back there in time can you give me a copy of PCL 10:31:47 -!- plage [~user@116.118.10.126] has left #lisp 10:31:54 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:07 oh actually and a CL implementation, there probably isn't one then 10:32:34 Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:32:40 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:40 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:32:41 -!- sav [~lsd@jagat.xored.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:33:17 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:18 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:18 can't someone stand up and say "fuck this cr/lf madness", and everyone will switch to one convention by 2020, or are we doomed to use it till the end of time? 10:33:57 -!- Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:17 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:34:36 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 10:35:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-218.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:37:58 stassats: clisp converts all into #\newline. 10:38:37 great 10:38:42 sellout [~greg@213-65-251-184-no35.business.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:50 stassats: otherwise, internet protocols are specified to use CR+LF; keyboards send CR, and unix files contain LF. So I guess we'll be stuck with it for a long time. 10:39:04 There's hope with unicode line-separator code, perhaps. 10:40:17 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:44:00 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:44:37 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:44:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:05 rawrsause [~wolfbytes@c-24-125-60-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:27 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:48:29 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:48:30 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:49:27 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:50:02 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:50:55 -!- Socro [~1@FTTB-dynamic-79.104.193.191.ranetka.ru] has quit [] 10:52:06 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:06 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:00:10 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BE08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:24 CodeWar [~pou@c-24-23-206-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:36 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:00:38 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:01:04 (set 'a (lambda (x) (+ x 2))) (a 2) thats not the right way of invoking it is it 11:01:11 timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:01:59 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 11:03:32 sav [~lsd@jagat.xored.org] has joined #lisp 11:03:47 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:25 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:52 CodeWar: (funcall 'a 2) 11:05:58 CodeWar: indeed. 11:06:17 actually remove the quote 11:06:35 (set 'a ...) <=> (setf (symbol-value 'a) ...) 11:06:41 but that's real old skool as style :) 11:07:02 You might want (setf (symbol-function 'a) ...) so that you can call (a ...). 11:07:03 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 11:07:08 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:07:20 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:08:14 pyb: cool, I did not know of that 11:08:20 Guthur thanks (funcall a 2) did well 11:08:40 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:10:01 (funcall a 2) vs (a 2) shouldnt the interpreter treat a as a function call whats the difference 11:10:38 CodeWar: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 11:10:55 CodeWar: perhaps you should read some book first. 11:11:16 http://cliki.net/Online%20Tutorials gives some pointers... 11:11:23 pjb true I have done no formal reading beyond get started with elisp tutorials thanks for the link 11:12:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:50 -!- CodeWar [~pou@c-24-23-206-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:13:55 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 11:14:08 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:25 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 11:15:47 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:24 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-2-42.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:17:25 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-39.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 11:19:46 timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:11 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:34:49 -!- churib1 [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:36:17 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:19 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:20 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ppldwobdvxcowxcz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:39:04 nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-210-236.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:39:15 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 11:42:13 Good evening everyone! 11:43:28 Evening plage 11:44:51 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B56179.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:13 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B56179.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 11:45:23 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.161.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:47:54 plage: 'evening 11:50:37 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 11:51:10 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:51:34 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:52:36 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 11:52:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:53:32 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.252.112] has joined #lisp 11:54:25 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:54:59 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:58:46 -!- sellout [~greg@213-65-251-184-no35.business.telia.com] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:00:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01:00 sellout [~greg@213-65-251-184-no35.business.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:27 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:02:22 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:28 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:04 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-123.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:06:23 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-2-42.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:07:00 Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:08:26 hello plage 12:11:19 -!- sellout [~greg@213-65-251-184-no35.business.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:11:34 mvilleneuve: Any reactions to the internship offers yet? 12:14:47 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:15:50 sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has joined #lisp 12:18:08 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:18:28 sunnyps [~sunnyps@120-88-37-69.thane.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 12:20:42 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:21:13 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:45 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@123.130.163.162] has joined #lisp 12:24:20 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:34 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 12:30:12 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:30:22 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 12:31:24 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 12:32:46 why is this illegal in defpackage?: (:shadowing-import-from :pack-1 :function-1) (:import-from :pack-2 :function-1) ... 12:34:25 plage: yea 12:34:41 plage: yes, more than I expected! 12:35:29 mvilleneuve: Excellent! 12:36:05 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-123.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:36:20 mvilleneuve: Does Lisp have anything to do with it? 12:36:47 francogrex: because you're importing a symbol with the same name from two different packages? 12:37:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:55 I'm shadowing one from one package and importing it from another 12:38:37 because I do: (:use :pack-1 :pack-2) before 12:38:55 no, you're shadowing and importing it from one package, and importing it from yet another 12:39:29 you mean I'm importing it and then shadowing it from pack-1 12:39:45 no, shadowing and then importing 12:39:47 and to avoid importing it all together from pack-1 12:40:27 -!- DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-76-188-181-37.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:41 what are you trying to accomplish? 12:42:15 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-95-132.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:42:21 well I have the same symbol in both packages but they refer to 2 different functions, I want to use both packages but for that particular symbol, import from o,e and not the other 12:42:39 one can avoid exporting the sym in the first place but 12:42:59 then use (:shadowing-import-from :package-you-want-to-use-function-1-from :function-1) 12:44:58 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-clauvtouxvyjttdl] has joined #lisp 12:45:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45:30 huh? 12:45:41 :package-you-want-to-use-function-1-from ? 12:46:02 plage: I don't think so, but I'll know for sure when I meet those students 12:46:04 you don't have such a package? 12:46:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.3] 12:47:17 no. ok i see what you mean 12:47:58 it's ok. thnks 12:48:44 wlcm 12:49:25 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:36 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-179.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:49:50 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-95-132.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:54:55 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:41 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:55:55 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:56:47 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:57:00 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 12:58:56 it's time for "ask #lisp" .... what sort of interesting things could I do by hooking up my lisp game creation tool to Hutchentoot or even just a basic HTTP client or both? 13:01:05 i want users to be able to share/publish/grab projects and even link to each others projects, making a sort of weird web 13:01:37 stassats: if you don't mind me asking this; how long have you been programmin in CL? 13:01:50 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02:14 4-3.5 years, i guess 13:02:35 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:59 i see 13:03:10 and you? 13:03:17 less than 2 13:03:17 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-138.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:03:31 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-179.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:03:32 *dto* 3 13:03:33 actively only 1 year 13:03:45 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:04:22 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:20 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-37-141.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:09:34 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:10:31 Do you guys feel that common lisp is becoming more and more popular? 13:10:37 What's the simplest way to pop out some data from a web page ? Maybe regexp or creating associative list like '(html table tr tr tr td td) to get to some data in a table ? 13:10:42 jsoft: no 13:10:46 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:01 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 13:11:03 schoppenhauer: less popular then? :D 13:11:05 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-138.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:11:25 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:34 az [~az@p4FE4F5E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:05 prljavi_hari: closure-html 13:12:21 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-239.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:12:33 jsoft: I cant see any difference. but actually, not being the most popular language may have its drawbacks, but certainly also has its benefits. 13:12:53 stassats: what's that ? 13:13:15 prljavi_hari: google it 13:13:20 ok 13:13:29 thanks 13:13:58 jsoft: I feel cold right now but I don't have a sense for popularity 13:13:59 prljavi_hari: use cxml-stp with closure-html, it works pretty good 13:14:17 jsoft: i.e. less libraries (even though with things like quicklisp and clbuild the situation should get better) but more "ideology". 13:14:23 popularity is proportional to the amount of stupid questions asked here 13:14:33 is it increasing? 13:15:17 stassats: do you mean the usual "I have a proposal: lets add ] to close all opening brackets. wouldnt this be much more convenient?"-stuff from newbies? 13:15:31 stassats: hah :) 13:15:41 schoppenhauer: no, something like "how to get the first element of a list"? 13:16:51 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:17:08 stassats: hm. ok. never heard such a question. I am just nerved by the many proposals that try to make the language easier by adding new syntax. I mean they can define reader-macros if they want (thats what I mostly tell such people) 13:17:28 How do I add 2 numbers? (1 + 2) doesn't work 13:17:34 *Phoodus* ducks for cover 13:18:23 Phoodus: hey, that's easy: (defun add (x y) (if (= y 0) x (add (1+ x) (1- y)))) 13:18:50 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:25 (add 3 -1) 13:19:35 (1+ 2) works for me 13:19:42 mal__: that's now what the original question was! 13:20:00 numbers != positive integers 13:20:02 the original question was "2 numbers", not "2 positive integers" ;) 13:20:23 Phoodus: but it works on 1 + 2 13:21:09 anecdotal 13:21:19 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-67.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:21:26 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:22:23 in true test driven style (defun add (x y) 3) and then refine by further tests :) 13:22:24 Phoodus: weak troll. 13:24:00 maybe (defmethod |1| ((operation (eql '+)) n) (+ 1 n)) for all natural numbers 13:25:10 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 13:25:26 *Phoodus* ponders an xor-and-carry based fixnum bit twiddling solution, but doesn't bother 13:27:06 Phoodus: for your specific case, logior would work. 13:27:41 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:27:50 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-37-141.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 13:27:53 (defun add (x y) (- x (- y))) 13:28:23 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:28:43 (defmacro $ ((num1 op num2)) `(,op ,num1 ,num2)) 13:28:50 ($ (1 + 3)) 13:28:56 not quite, but close 13:30:09 Guthur, use [ instead of ( and a reader macro 13:30:37 flip214: I did think of reader macros, but I have reach that belt yet 13:30:50 my CL-fu is not yet that advanced 13:31:26 there's an old infix package where you can use #I(1 + 2) 13:33:03 I showed a python-loving friend a reader-function that uses indentation instead of () for grouping ... but I couldn't convince him 13:35:58 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:39:10 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-109-85.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:40:21 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-67.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:45:45 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:45:54 stassats, _8david: I've pushed some changes to my commonqt repo & posted some comments to commonqt-devel (did some research concerning hemlock qt problems, too) 13:47:55 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-129-167.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:59 yeah, i saw the mail 13:48:03 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:49:16 ivan4th: i have no comments regarding it, though about qvariants, i use (optimized-call t instance "operator QVariant") in my code, but alas, operator QVariant isn't defined for all classes 13:50:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:50:31 echo-area [~user@123.120.234.193] has joined #lisp 13:54:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-218.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:26 *Xach* tries to remember who is responsible for GLAW 13:54:34 mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-65-104.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:41 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-clauvtouxvyjttdl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54:44 stassats: well, perhaps that should be used in qvariant.lisp when available. 13:55:05 mrSpec [~Spec@D8-805-router.ket.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 13:55:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@D8-805-router.ket.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Changing host] 13:55:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:55:08 -!- nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-210-236.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:55:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:56:46 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:10 mitre__ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 13:57:25 -!- mitre_ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:57:54 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-lyniiqgynhysbqgj] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:00:05 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-65-104.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:00:07 -!- mitre__ is now known as mitre 14:02:29 what is the way to exceute a program step by step like in gdb, is it using (step (function args)) and then step... ? 14:02:42 Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:05:43 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.234.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:15 echo-area [~user@123.120.234.193] has joined #lisp 14:07:01 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:09:51 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:11:26 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:11:45 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:59 gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 14:16:25 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has joined #lisp 14:18:28 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:36 http://img526.imageshack.us/i/ioforms2.png/ what do people think of my project logo? 14:18:58 also there's a mascot character. 14:19:09 who will star in an example game. 14:19:54 dto: did you use a vector program for that? because there's a lot of jaggies... 14:20:17 no i used gimp. i'll probably either trace it, or make it over again in inkscape. it took all of 5 minutes. 14:20:39 what do you think of the mascot Mr. Block? 14:21:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:21:06 Hmm. It inspires an intense loathing in me for some reason. 14:21:11 hmm. 14:21:17 maybe his stare is too penetrating Zhivago 14:21:24 Well at least it is inspiring then 14:21:42 It reminds me of an evil potato. 14:21:49 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@123.130.163.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:16 dto: it's not immediately obvious that it's a 'block'...or rather it's not immediately obvious that it is more than a fancy emoticon... 14:22:37 It might be the transition between squarish and roundish forms. 14:22:42 when he starts talking in a little balloon it might be more obvious. 14:22:53 i used only letterforms from the same font as the logo 14:23:03 to compose him. 14:23:07 I liked it. 14:24:24 he could say "hi, it looks like you're trying to make a game. would you like help??" 14:25:15 oh no he is a cousin of that annoying paper clip guy from microsoft 14:25:32 "Would you like to play a game?" :) 14:25:46 "It puts the parentheses on the s-expression ..." 14:26:32 dto: Did I see a different logo earlier today? Something a little curvier with a stylized F? 14:26:43 Xach: yeah but i ended up not liking that font. 14:26:58 Zhivago: ahah it puts on the parentheses or it gets the HOSE again 14:27:14 "Would you like to play a game?" scares me. it's like he's gonna kill me. 14:27:19 sellout [~greg@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:28:53 valium: That's why it fits the evil-potato logo. 14:29:07 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: new kernel] 14:31:22 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.223.131] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 14:32:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:57 are evil potatoes tasty? 14:33:12 -!- sm`wor [~chatzilla@78.40.4.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:34:15 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #lisp 14:34:34 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:38:33 heh the forebear of MS Clippy, MS Bob was written in Common Lisp. Too bad MS never released the source. 14:39:09 nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-210-236.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:39:15 Too bad? 14:39:40 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:14 would be interesting to see their Lisp style 14:40:17 weee 14:40:32 what was MS bob? 14:40:44 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 14:40:46 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:40:51 Was it was equally as annoying the MS Clippy thing? 14:41:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:36 whoa, i didn't know that about Bob. 14:42:27 i tried it once 14:42:36 my parents were always bringin home cool shit from computer conferences. 14:42:40 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 14:42:42 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-hgdpcousedyzhngh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:49 like a new copy of OS/2 2.0 with 50 floppies and cool books inside 14:42:58 and a sticker that said "operate at a higher level" 14:43:29 mal__: it would not be a MS style, just a style of some guys happening to work at MS 14:43:32 ah, OS/2... good times 14:44:04 MS Clippy was nothing to MS Bob, btw 14:44:29 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:35 kudos to them for trying though 14:45:16 jdz: it would be the style of the MS Bob team... back then, I think they still had similar rules to the ones Spolsky described (i.e. Project Leader is the Alpha and Omega unless he *really* fucks up) 14:46:21 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 hi 14:46:41 -!- Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:47:02 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:07 Posterdati [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:47:12 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-33-149.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:47:28 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-109-85.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:47:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:47:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:56 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 14:48:56 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:56 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 14:49:26 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@222.121.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:41 p_l|backup: as far as i know, MS R&D is a completely different world than the rest of MS 14:49:55 p_l|backup: look at all the functional programming things they do 14:50:21 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 14:51:45 jdz: I recall once reading that project teams at MS have quite a bit of freedom, as long as they don't step on any licensing issues etc. IE team was slightly more constrained due to certain issues related to backwards compatibility, but that's because compatibility is one of the main design goals, iirc 14:52:31 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.223.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:52:52 csmax [~max@p5DE8E874.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:55 hiho 14:57:36 St018_ [~selcuk@88.228.0.179] has joined #lisp 14:59:46 -!- benny [~benny@i577A14B5.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:28 -!- valium97582 [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 15:01:49 which is better to start with lisp or scheme or rocket? 15:02:29 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:02:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:02:42 St018_: Common Lisp is the best of all. 15:02:53 how is 15:03:11 St018_: This might not be the most unbiased place to ask ;) 15:03:20 But Xach is right. 15:03:45 If you ask in scheme, they would rightly tell you Scheme is the best of all. Well, hopefully. 15:03:46 St018_, read sicp and translate to lisp while reading - then you learn a bit of both. 15:04:13 *sellout* sometimes leans toward saying "Clojure". 15:05:07 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 15:05:22 sellout:i just want to start learning an functional language 15:05:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.3] 15:05:57 St018_: common lisp lets you program in a functional style, but it's not a "real" functional language 15:05:59 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-12-107.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:29 for something that focuses on the functional concepts, try Haskell, clojure or the schemes 15:06:33 (I hear racket is very nice) 15:06:57 ok thank you all 15:07:00 :D 15:07:37 1 more thing: how can i use someone's name in irc like you do 15:07:59 St018_: type the first letters and then TAB in most clients 15:08:20 oh it works fine ty 15:08:41 :Q 15:09:05 -!- St018_ [~selcuk@88.228.0.179] has left #lisp 15:09:22 hi 15:09:27 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:37 please help: I need to balance weasels on a rake :) 15:09:53 M-x balance-weasels-on-a-rake 15:10:00 Posterdati: what's up? 15:10:04 simias: wrong channel! 15:10:34 simias: [no match] 15:11:42 *simias* apologises 15:12:58 stassats: I've got gigamonkey's book this morning 15:13:08 Posterdati: that's great 15:13:40 alas I've got it on pdf, I preferred to buy a printed book copy 15:13:45 hi simias. 15:13:55 sup dto 15:14:12 not much. workin on my wobsite 15:14:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.255.141] has joined #lisp 15:14:37 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:37 hey, the other day linkedin told me that I should be "connected" with you 15:14:44 oh cool. yeah add me 15:14:46 no idea how it found out I knew you 15:15:10 probably some graph algorithm 15:15:13 oh, you want to be my best friend forever then? 15:15:13 i bet you can look it up 15:15:36 maybe we could go on vacation together 15:15:50 im really lame and only have like 4 people in my network because i've only had the one real job. 15:15:57 ahah 15:16:02 so please add me 15:16:04 Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:16:06 people will think im cool 15:16:49 I'm not sure you're cool enough to be in my network 15:17:09 what if i told you about my collection of precious stones 15:17:12 diamonds 15:17:13 rubies 15:17:28 Try doing it via private messages. 15:17:31 sory. 15:18:13 Xach: it's ok, I can be your friend on linkedin too 15:20:06 i'm going to write up a few paragraphs on my site to answer various questions people have asked me about ioforms. 15:20:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:39 ?why is it called io"? 15:22:43 i like the sound, and it evokes input/output, also my object system is partly inspired by the language "io" 15:22:46 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:23:12 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@50.2.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:51 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-129-167.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:23:52 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:25:38 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-129-167.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:26:29 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@222.121.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:29:53 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 15:29:56 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-129-167.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:31:56 kanru [~kanru@118-168-235-191.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:17 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:35:22 Xach: cheers for the postcard! 15:36:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:02 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-57-225.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:38:15 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-33-149.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:38:23 tsuru: glad it made it. 15:38:52 *Xach* wonders if cmm's has arrived 15:39:08 cmm's? 15:39:18 oh, a nick 15:39:50 i'm excitedly waiting for a UPS truck to arrive with my copy of Smalltalk 80: The Language by Adele Goldberg 15:40:56 woop woop 15:41:21 dto: about using http with games: update a scoreboard with a POST; fetch a message-of-the-{day,week,month} or recent news (feed); get new content (maps, textures, sounds, etc.) or even search for upgrades 15:42:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:44:29 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:35 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-152-24.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:37 dto: that's an old book :) 15:45:57 dto: i'm not aware of any game with an http server, but it could perhaps be used as a development/debugging tool. it would make more sense for a game server to have an http server, generating statistics and listing connected players, etc. 15:45:59 i know, but i've read the first edition back in gradschool, and i wanna read it again now that i'm doing squeak inspired stuff 15:46:42 pmd: and i bet it would be simpler to get a plain http client working than WebDAV 15:46:47 I talked a bit to Julian something (he works at ... Cincom?? and writes seaside for fun) about implementing continuations 15:46:57 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-92-123.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:04 kind of nice when you can suspend your own thread and rewrite your stack 15:47:25 wouldn't want to debug that however ;) 15:48:12 :) 15:48:12 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:23 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:37 muhdik_ [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:45 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:51:12 -!- rawrsause [~wolfbytes@c-24-125-60-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:51:51 dto: You could read a book on squeak though? 15:52:35 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-lyniiqgynhysbqgj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:41 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qrxcwzkpfdvhguiy] has joined #lisp 15:52:45 right but i liked what she said and also I downloaded PDFs of the companion volumes. so technically i now have a complete set and theres all sorts of historical information 15:52:59 i'm quite obsessed with having copies of primary documents 15:53:21 i used to see Squeak books at the bookstore in Shrewsbury 15:53:26 at the Borders 15:54:06 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:54 *Xach* got PAIP at Borders, saw ANSI Common Lisp there a few times 15:55:48 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:55:52 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-163-128.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:55:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:56:07 i wanna write a free color 200 page book called "the ioforms book" 15:56:35 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:56:36 and do amazon on-demand printing of it. 15:57:28 Bronsa [~brace@host97-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:57:59 dto: Lulu will do on-demand printing for you at little cost 16:02:03 I got a christmas card from clozure associates today! <3 (: 16:02:21 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:55 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:02:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.237.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:08 urandom__ [~user@p548A5317.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:30 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:41 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.25.105] has joined #lisp 16:07:45 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:08:14 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55F67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:36 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55F67.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:08:40 hi 16:08:57 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:20 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@50.2.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:46 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:29 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:34 benny [~benny@i577A8D95.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:13:54 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-23-126.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:17:31 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-57-225.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:18:48 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-38.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:19:17 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:11 mtk0 [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:55 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:09 -!- mtk0 [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:50 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:26:06 p_l|backup: cool. yeah their per-unit manufacturing cost for that book estimated size was $50 16:26:51 dto: given typical rates for IT books, it doesn't sound too bad 16:27:03 Better than LiSP 16:27:39 right but do people want to pay $50+ for a book they can download for free? admittedly the book will be in full color, so that's an incentive to buy rather than try to print that 16:27:57 but if i make the book REALLY nice 16:28:15 i'd also love trying to include a multi platform cdrom 16:32:26 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 16:34:01 well, the bar has been set. you'll need to make a music video. 16:35:09 bah, dto has made several already. 16:36:22 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.234.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:46 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:37:50 dto: I bought most of the books I had previously downloaded, so that might be the case. A dead-tree book is just *so* much more comfortable. 16:38:06 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:38:07 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 16:39:07 Fade: a music game for a USB dance pad might be in order if i'm going to top the lisp music video 16:39:10 which i still havent seen 16:39:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:40:18 -!- jobf [~jfranck@c-9fbde555.03-87-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:52 if i wantt o just create a symbol in current package and assign a value to it, are defvar, defparameter, etc my only options? 16:43:04 sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has joined #lisp 16:44:29 yan_: No. That's kind of an odd thing to want to do, though. What are you trying to achieve? 16:46:35 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.158.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:41 Xach: hm in a few words, i'm writing a tool that will get a few data structure definitions (akin to C's struct { .. } name) but will have relationship data embedded in it, i.e. '(defdata name ((len uint8) (str char* :length len)))' and then i need to work with the defined types.. so instea of recreating what is essentially a symbol table, i figured i'd use cl's 16:47:54 yan_: Sometimes it is better to create a real table (hash table, plist, alist, etc) instead of using the package system as an application's table. 16:48:48 Xach: i was going to use the built-in package system.. since sometimes members would xref to other structures.. but you're probably right 16:48:58 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.255.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:51:31 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:43 -!- paul0 [~paulogeye@189.114.206.39.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 16:54:04 Well, with a qualification like "sometimes", it's hard to be wrong! I'm not sure what's right in this situation. 16:54:13 Xach: it did! 16:54:51 Xach: and you have non-atrophied handwriting skills, which fact I envy 16:55:50 *Xach* is ashamed of his legibility, wrote the notes anyway 16:56:24 Xach: nothing to be ashamed of! (compared to yours truly, anyway) 16:56:35 yan_: sometimes i attach things to a symbol's plist in situations like that. 16:57:41 Xach: but i still need to intern a symbol in a package to attach a symbol to it, no? 16:58:12 yan_: no 16:58:17 I'd like to install a lisp repl on an embedded project, did anyone already do it? 16:58:23 yan_: It gets interned when it is read. 16:58:33 -!- Guthur [c743cb8e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:58:38 hm just quote it? 16:58:58 yan_: not necessarily. 16:59:26 Posterdati: depends on the embedded platform and just what kind of lisp 16:59:31 yan_: quoting happens when evaluating things, at which point everything is already read 16:59:40 yan_: the symbol object is probably directly available in your macro, e.g. (defmacro defdata (name ...) [do something with NAME variable]) 16:59:48 p_l|backup: arm9 (ep9302) with sbcl :) 16:59:49 so it doesn't matter wrt interning 17:00:12 Posterdati: SBCL doesn't have a working ARM port, grab Clozure CL 17:00:17 Xach: eval-when is one thing i never fully grasped after PCL.. ideally i'd only need the plist value to be accessible during eval time 17:00:24 i think, at least 17:00:27 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:00:43 Posterdati: CCL should work on your ARMv6 17:01:16 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:26 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-80-252.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:47 Posterdati: There is also at least one person in #ccl who has installed it on ARMs. 17:01:54 (EG, iPad) 17:01:57 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-38.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:01:58 didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:02:16 ECL also works on ARMs 17:02:19 p_l|backup, sellout: thanks 17:02:20 CLISP should work as well 17:02:28 sbcl? 17:02:48 Posterdati: there is a port in pre-larval stage :) 17:02:51 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:03:10 p_l|backup: so I can't balance weasels on a rake :) 17:04:13 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:04:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 Posterdati: well, not off the shelf 17:05:18 you need to implement the rake and weasel mounts first :P 17:05:26 p_l|backup: sure! 17:05:27 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.97.0] has joined #lisp 17:05:30 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.255.141] has joined #lisp 17:05:50 ... it reminds me, but didn't drewc have some weasels? :D 17:05:54 plage` [~user@118.68.248.150] has joined #lisp 17:06:24 p_l|backup: why weasels are preferred animals for lispers? 17:06:57 Posterdati: Because they can be made to look like parens? 17:07:25 Posterdati: dunno, I prefer cats. 17:07:28 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qrxcwzkpfdvhguiy] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:07:28 sellout: dunno! 17:07:32 p_l|backup: me too 17:07:51 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host97-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:08:24 it might be some kind of a reference towards a certain contemporary tutorial that got started around the time of "Casting SPELs in Lisp" 17:08:29 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.25.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:56 p_l|backup: ok 17:09:08 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:20 caoliver [~Bogus@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 plage`` [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 17:15:18 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:15:59 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:16:23 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:49 davazp [~user@3.Red-83-46-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:58 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 17:18:30 -!- plage` [~user@118.68.248.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:19:26 vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:07 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:26 -!- caoliver [~Bogus@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:42 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:00 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:24:33 caoliver [~Bogus@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:18 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@120-88-37-69.thane.hns.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:25 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 17:33:33 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:34:30 Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:34:35 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-235-191.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:37:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:10 -!- Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 17:42:29 -!- caoliver [~Bogus@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 17:44:39 -!- didi` is now known as didi 17:45:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:32 b-man_ [~b-man@189.101.224.61] has joined #lisp 17:48:26 I have a stream-decoding-error I am trying to hande with handler-case. I would like to log the english description of the error ("decoding error on stream"), but I can't figure out how to access it, as I can't find any slot in the error object corresponds to it. 17:49:56 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.101.224.61] has left #lisp 17:50:15 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:33 p_l|backup: ferrets, afaik 17:51:57 which is, I guess, a kind of weasel. 17:52:16 but so is the wolverine, and you wouldn't want one of those on a boat. 17:52:52 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:05 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has joined #lisp 17:54:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:27 vasile: princ-to-string 17:57:04 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:11 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:31 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-70-185.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:01:36 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-80-252.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 18:04:07 e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:11 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:57 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08:23 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 18:09:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:06 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 18:10:44 adeht: When I do that, I get other material as well: the stream object and other slots in the error. I want only the error message, if possible." 18:11:14 vasile: Not possible in general. 18:11:45 Xach: That's interesting. I would think it would be desirable to share those messages with logs and users and such. 18:12:16 OTOH, I'm glad it's not possible, because I've spent the last several hours failing to do it and now I feel slightly less stupid. 18:12:29 vasile: The message you can share is available via princ-to-string. 18:12:57 vasile: You have to do some handling if you want to share a different message. 18:13:19 Xach: I suppose that makes some sense. 18:13:47 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:11 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:25 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:04 Xach: BTW, thanks for quicklisp. It's made a big difference for me. I just dropped a penny in your jar. 18:18:13 I saw, thanks! 18:18:23 Very glad to hear you find it helpful. 18:18:52 heina [~heina@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 18:19:00 I've always hated asdf and now I can largely ignore it for foreign packages. 18:19:24 sglinux [~sglinux@cm112.gamma94.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:20:12 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 tfb [~tfb@92.40.11.7.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:21:33 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 18:22:02 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:25 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@195.103.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:24:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-007.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:26:48 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:53 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:10 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.97.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:28:25 Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:29 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:29 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:29:06 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.3] 18:39:03 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-179-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:59 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-164-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:04 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.60.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:43:02 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.151.107] has joined #lisp 18:43:55 carlocci [~nes@93.37.177.244] has joined #lisp 18:44:50 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-150.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:44:52 WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55ED6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:14 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B55ED6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 18:45:46 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-70-185.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:54 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-150.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:49:25 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:49:35 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-150.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:49:36 stassats: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dxy4t/the_land_of_lisp_via_lambda_the_ultimate_music/ 18:51:33 i have seen a long time ago 18:51:35 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:52:01 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 18:56:19 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00:47 stassats: I'd like to buy that book, I don't think there are vendors here in Italy 19:01:21 i am sorry, i have nothing to do with this book, i even have no intentions to read it 19:05:35 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:41 sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:43 Posterdati: http://www.amazon.it/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/dp/1593272812/ 19:06:26 Xach: thanks I didn't search on amazon.it :) 19:06:38 Xach: the obvious choose ;) 19:07:04 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [] 19:07:37 is that book good? 19:08:00 ecraven: The free chapter and the webpage are. 19:09:18 devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:29 Xach: what do you think about that book? 19:10:23 Posterdati: I have not read it. I liked the whimsy of the video and his other work. 19:10:50 Xach: ok 19:11:30 Xach: I'm reading "practical common Lisp" and I find it useful because explains stuffs in a very basic form 19:12:31 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-12-107.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:13:19 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:16:39 Bronsa [~brace@host97-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:19:38 Zmax [~dream@95.235.0.11] has joined #lisp 19:21:16 -!- Stefanot is now known as sm` 19:22:26 LoL ist very amusing to read, thats for sure. if it manages to teach you something, that kinda depends on the reader. 19:22:45 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:18 mheld [~mheld@64.134.70.113] has joined #lisp 19:27:04 Yo Posterdati! 19:27:20 gigamonkey: Yo to you! 19:27:23 -!- gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 19:27:28 Glad you're enjoying PCL. 19:27:40 gigamonkey: I've got your book this morning 19:27:50 Excellent. Did you have a question for me the other day? Or did I answer it? 19:28:05 no thanks 19:28:17 I just modified the cd database program to hold books instead 19:28:51 but I found Lisp a bit tricky when things go a bit complex 19:29:38 I hope it is a matter of habits acquired from c/c++ programming 19:30:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:04 anyway I found the book very clear 19:31:11 ime, the main danger is to go into big design upfront mode too early. 19:31:46 -!- boscop [~boscop@g227152232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:19 boscop [~boscop@g227152232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:16 pkhuong: what do you mean? 19:36:34 Posterdati: CL is an enabler for complex design. 19:36:44 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.165.44] has joined #lisp 19:37:03 pkhuong: yes, I'd like to use it for my projects 19:37:13 boscop_ [~boscop@f055077131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:23 anyone know about CL vs SBCL on OpenBSD? looks like as of 2009 SBCL didnt support multithreading on OpenBSD which caused problems with huchentoot. also ive read about setting it up behind apache with mod_lisp. anyone know the best setup for a lisp web server on openBSD? 19:38:35 -!- boscop [~boscop@g227152232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:36 CL? 19:39:04 clisp rather 19:39:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:11 -!- boscop_ is now known as boscop 19:39:17 'hunchentoot' rather 19:39:37 do you insist on openbsd? 19:39:38 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@195.103.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:02 stassats: historically yes. is that an issue? i much prefer it to freebsd 19:40:04 nickaugust: I haven't heard of many (or any) people using CL and OpenBSD for web development. 19:40:32 nickaugust: i wasn't going to suggest freebsd, but linux 19:40:56 nickaugust: clisp doesn't do threads either, most likely. 19:42:13 ah yes, there seem to be many happy linux users with this setup. slack is nice i guess but id prefer to stick with obsd if possible. i wonder how complicated it would be to fix the threading issues with sbcl 19:43:04 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:43:28 jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-66-201.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:43:47 nickaugust: probably very: no kernel threads. 19:44:00 hm 19:46:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-79-204.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:06 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f469.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:22 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-nzqoevkduvthkllq] has joined #lisp 19:47:22 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:48:01 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:48:22 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 19:49:14 jeti [~user@212-166-215-36.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:16 hullo 19:52:28 prxq: Whut's up. 19:53:31 dunno 19:53:56 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:55:06 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:04 rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:59 nickaugust: OpenBSD is not appropriate for many general-purpose computing tasks at this point 20:05:06 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:14 it's niche is really more for embedded stuff and network gear these days 20:05:21 is there a way to remove system from quicklisp ? 20:06:08 milanj: Try channel #quicklisp 20:06:35 symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:27 nickaugust: I'm not sure if OpenBSD supports concurrent threading... 20:08:38 milanj: Remove in what sense? 20:09:53 i wonder if ecl might work 20:10:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.11.7.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:10:21 Remove from the quicklisp cache, I can only guess. 20:10:24 does SBCL have facilities for enumerating the bindings available to a certain lexical environment? 20:10:33 nickaugust: ECL has threads where POSIX threads are available 20:10:57 (and win32 threading as well, as it handles win32 natively without compat libs) 20:12:15 milanj: the suspense is killing me! 20:14:27 openbsd does pthreads but they are not kernel threads rather a user lib. which confines them to one core but i dont see why ecl or even sbcl couldnt do multiple threads 20:14:32 -!- Zmax [~dream@95.235.0.11] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:16:08 nickaugust: It might be a lack of the convergence of interest and ability in the same person. 20:17:04 Xach: i think so :/ 20:18:30 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:18:30 ziga` [~user@BSN-61-61-83.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:57 Xach, remove it in a sense that i want to load it from other location 20:20:21 milanj: Make the new location visible via asdf's system registry and it will take precedence over anything in quicklisp. 20:20:36 milanj: e.g. (push #p"/path/to/stuff/" asdf:*central-registry*) 20:20:42 yes, i not that, i wanted to now if there is something like asdf-install:uninstall 20:20:50 s/not/now 20:20:56 ups, know :) 20:20:56 know :) 20:21:19 milanj: That's a bit different from just loading it from another location. 20:21:27 milanj: No, there isn't a function to do that yet. 20:21:30 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:21:49 anyway, problem was adw-charting, it's missing some things in quicklisp 20:22:49 milanj: oh? i haven't seen any updates for it. where do you get the new version? 20:22:57 is there any other web server options other than hunchentoot that might be compatible with openbsd? 20:23:19 mod_lisp maybe 20:23:37 nickaugust: http://xach.livejournal.com/144475.html has some info about mod_lisp. 20:23:40 hm, there is adw-charting-vecto and adw-charting-google (something like that), but it's missing in quicklisp install 20:23:57 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-150.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:24:00 Xach: thx 20:24:01 http://common-lisp.net/project/adw-charting/ 20:24:01 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-150.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:24:03 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:25 those systems should be in adw-charting 20:24:44 nickaugust: the simplest might be to have the front facing server running open, and to have your CL server in something else. 20:24:55 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:25:43 milanj: ah, thanks. i am pulling adw-charting from an older URL. 20:25:52 milanj: i will update quicklisp to use the new URL. 20:26:57 thank you 20:28:11 -!- heina [~heina@h220-215-160-087.catv02.itscom.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:45 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:29:58 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:30:27 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:32 nickaugust: the allegro lisp web server is also available, but if your system doesn't support threading, I think you're out of luck. 20:31:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:32:07 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Life is all about ass; you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like it. Which phase are you in today?] 20:32:20 nickaugust: are you stuck with openbsd? I think freebsd has working threads. 20:32:30 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:33:54 prxq: im not stuck.. im considering freebsd or slack... but i prefer obsd. frankly its the simplest, sanest os ive come across 20:34:27 the free CL systems work best with linux. 20:34:46 Fade: CCL probably still works best on darwin. 20:35:09 well, its IDE certainly does 20:35:14 the obsd guys say i should be able to use pthreads in libpthread without any problems. im thinking the software just needs to be ported to use libpthread rather than kernel threads 20:35:20 but CCL seems to be generally at parity in the lisp on linux. 20:35:26 no thanks on using darwin :P 20:36:05 nickaugust: the problem is that lisp threading systems typically need more functionality (locking primitives, signal delivery guarantees) than libpthread provides 20:37:05 ah, so porting is a non trivial matter then 20:37:05 so if the attitude of the platform is "you may use libpthread and there's nothing else", then that means that threads are much harder to implement on that platform 20:37:30 nickaugust: the obsd kernel guys I know have no qualm about not supporting SBCL's not-quite-posix-compliance already. It'd probably be even worse when trying to work with another low-level hack of a pthread library. 20:37:33 who wants to implement one of thse for SBCL http://www.artima.com/lejava/articles/azul_pauseless_gc.html :) 20:37:56 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:19 timor [~timor@port-92-195-104-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:25 foom: right up nyef's alley! 20:38:29 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:38:29 do you generally (defclass ..) once and then just use (in-package ..)? 20:38:42 yan_: defclass and in-package are not tightly related. 20:39:18 yan_: clispy would say: "It looks like you'e trying to work in a new package. Did you mean DEFPACKAGE?" 20:39:32 foom: no, but I sure would like to know why I get http://paste.lisp.org/+2IZQ on 2.6.36 (: 20:40:01 i've just been adding to the same file when prototyping and i need to split functionality to diff files. i want to stop short of creating an asdf system for now 20:40:03 pkhuong: probably a bug, did you try $latest_version? :) 20:40:21 foom: marked improvement over the solid hang in 2.6.32 ;) 20:40:24 yan_: Why do you want to stop short of creating a system file? It's one of the first things I do. Well, I wrote a program to do it for me, but still. 20:40:45 nyef seems to be MIA for some time now. 20:40:52 defining an ASDF system is painless :D 20:40:55 the kernel modifications at http://www.managedruntime.org/ are somewhat interesting 20:41:07 Fade: he has surfaced a few times since late november. 20:41:25 pkhuong: you have more than 19 cpus? 20:41:53 prxq: hyperthreading; 2x6x2. 20:42:09 I build a machine with 2x12core opterons not too long ago. 20:42:23 high cpu counts are the new normal. 20:42:46 *prxq* looks eyes his 8 core machine 20:42:46 Xach: i don't grok that yet and don't want to lose my train of thought wading through docs 20:43:04 yan_: so you'd rather lose your train of thought kludging multiple file loading? 20:43:14 sykopomp: well for now i'm just working in a single file 20:43:27 yan_: I recommend not switching from a single file, then. 20:43:44 lisp doesnt have application threading support? 20:43:56 yan_: If you want to use multiple files, take the (small amount of) time to learn how to do it. It's not difficult. 20:44:11 I think CMUCL has green threads? 20:44:12 fair enough 20:44:22 nickaugust: not specified. 20:44:51 yan_: http://common-lisp.net/~mmommer/asdf-howto.shtml ;; read the section "the base case" which is 1/8th screenfull, and you are 3/4ths through on using asdf for something simple 20:46:25 pkhuong: what do you mean by that? 20:46:56 nickaugust: the standard, which defines Common Lisp, does not specify anything about threading/concurrency. 20:47:16 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:48 do you think lisp's hyphen separated identifiers are more readable than under_score and camelCase conventions in other languages? 20:48:15 boscop: yes. an estimated 327.8%. 20:48:20 I find it about the same as under_score, and better than camelCase. 20:48:29 boscop: I think the important point is to pick one and stick with it. 20:48:32 I find it much easier to type :) 20:48:46 foom: with hypens, I get to use underscores *as well*! 20:48:52 I have the impression that in camelCase, the words are too close, and in under_score, the '_' is a bit too low to get noticed 20:48:54 can the predicate for notany be a lambda function? 20:48:56 but by now I'm used to working with a codebase that uses all 3, so whatever, I don't really care. :) 20:48:56 foom, it beats underscore for, if no other reason, it doesn't require shift 20:49:04 sykopomp: pkhuong: so is it possible to implement application level threading? 20:49:05 so it looks rather like multiple identifiers 20:49:38 Guthur: control-/ works in either case, so no real difference there 20:49:57 osoleve: yes. 20:50:11 nickaugust: not portably. Some implementation may offer such functionality. 20:50:20 pkhuong: How would I write that? #'lambda (x) ? 20:50:31 osoleve: like any other anonymous function. 20:50:39 boscop: nice thing in cl is you can use FUNKY=NAME, with chemical double bond. Also, UP^THERE is legal. 20:50:42 yan_: ASDF might seem odd and frighteningly complex at first, but it's not that complex actually. And after a while I have *really much* started to appreciate ASDF systems packages. But start with something simple and go on from that occassionally peeking at the ASDF manual. :-) 20:51:01 osoleve: the predicate needs to have as many arguments as there are sequence arguments to notany. 20:51:04 boscop: and when in doubt, |an identifier| also works. 20:51:12 The packaging frees you to refactor and reorganize your code more freely. 20:51:14 prxq, yes, I know ;) 20:51:16 I've been back in pythonia this week, and got scolded because I was writing classnames lisp style w/out noticing. 20:51:18 (lambda ...) is a macro for (function (lambda ...)) 20:51:26 so #' or not would work. 20:51:27 boscop: oh ok 20:51:29 prxq, but that wouldn't work in most other languages 20:51:32 foom: control-/ ? 20:51:36 sykopomp: thanks 20:51:53 hyphen style would (if it's cleary distinguished from minus) 20:52:02 yan_: So it's worth the while to trouble to get to know asdf. 20:52:20 boscop: would you rather discuss what color to paint the bike shed? 20:52:26 boscop: indeed not. I think in algol 68 whitespace was completely ignored, so that "a v a r n a me", "a varname" and "avarname" where the same. 20:52:40 hyphen and minus are different symbols. but usual keyboards have a 'hyphen-minus' key that tries to be both 20:52:49 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:52:57 peterhil: hm thanks will spend some time getting acquainted 20:53:08 boscop: similar situation with jJ key :( 20:53:19 sykopomp, there is a reason why bike sheds have different colors ;) 20:53:19 boscop: do you mean m-dash and hyphen? 20:53:23 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 20:53:33 and unicode has a hyphen, minus, *and* hyphen-minus character! 20:53:38 yeah 20:54:02 so in theory, it would be possible, but nobody would want to write it if it involves more than one keypress 20:54:27 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:45 -!- pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 20:54:46 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:54:48 minus:  em dash:  en dash:  figure dash:  hyphen:  hypen-minus: - 20:54:54 the other solution would be to require spaces around the minus infix operator 20:55:09 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:12 that's what dylan did 20:55:22 ah 20:55:29 and how did it work out? 20:55:46 well, the language is not *quite* dead... 20:55:50 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host97-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:55:53 I don't think that's why, however. :) 20:56:05 if i were to write a `notany lambda ()` that works through a 2D array, what would I put as the parameters to the lambda function? 20:56:17 sorry, a 10x10 2D array* 20:56:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.74.7] has joined #lisp 20:56:45 2D arrays are not sequences so notany doesn't work on them. 20:56:50 ah 20:56:55 well, there goes that idea 20:57:05 Only 1D sequences are sequences (more specifically, vectors). 20:57:13 -!- jeti [~user@212-166-215-36.red-acceso.airtel.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:14 you can displace a vector on top of that array. 20:57:19 I mean, 1D arrays. 20:57:25 I think I finally mamanged to fix sbcl's read-line with crlf for windows in the core: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117935 can someone please pick it up and do tests to make sure it doesn't distrupt anything else ? 20:57:26 ccl works on linux just as well (if not slightly better) than on darwin. 20:59:09 so i might as well just roll my own function that checks each location in the array, and use THAT as a test to terminate my loop, instead of notany? 20:59:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:00:02 Use two nested dotimes. 21:00:12 osoleve: you might. could make use of array-total-size and row-major-aref 21:00:20 osoleve: you can use (make-array (apply #'* (array-dimensions 2dthing) :displaced-to 2dthng) to obtain a 1d version of your 2d array 21:00:31 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:32 prxq: array-total-size, please! 21:00:41 modulo missing parentheses and so on. 21:00:50 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:01:12 Xach: but... apply is so much more fun! :-) 21:01:25 prxq: what if there are more than call-arguments-limit dimensions? 21:01:35 prxq: that looks a bit above my comprehension level :/ 21:01:35 osoleve: like Xach said 21:01:36 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:42 osoleve: oh please 21:02:16 Xach: for a 2d array? :) 21:02:20 -!- ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:20 prxq: i mean, i'd have to look up myself how to do that and write it on my own ;) 21:02:21 Xach: then you have a mighty array I guess 21:02:26 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:02:31 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:46 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 21:03:43 prxq: maybe the implementation has a call-arguments-limit of 50 and an array-rank-limit of 71... 21:04:19 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-202-190.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:05:02 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:05:50 But clearly, this is a case where the number of dimensions is fixed at a very early stage, like, problem specification. 21:06:03 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: "Anail nachroc, uthvass bethudd, dochiel dienve."] 21:06:04 pjb: don't ruin the fun :~( 21:06:08 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-202-190.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:06:48 Xach: you are right, of course. But if each dimension is 2 long, your 51-dimensional array is taking a lot of memory. Besides, time to pester your lisp implementers for being so conservative. And for not using powers of two! 21:07:41 kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:09:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 21:09:02 prxq: or it could be empty. 21:11:21 pkhuong: or just very esoteric, like (make-array (make-list 1000 :initial-element 1) :initial-element pi)? 21:11:33 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:51 i think in terms of risk, using apply #'* is fairly safe in the real world. I admit at this point i didn't know about array-total-size, and will probably use that. 21:13:06 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:27 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:17:13 (make-array (apply #'* (array-total-size *board*)) 21:17:14 :displaced-to *board*) isn't working. it keeps saying the argument to #'* is dotted 21:17:40 osoleve: :-) 21:18:23 osoleve: no more apply is needed with array-total-size. 21:18:44 ohh 21:18:51 makes sense 21:18:58 thanks 21:19:00 osoleve: what implementation are you using? 21:19:06 clisp :( 21:19:26 that is a fun error message. 21:19:59 yeah. i tried cadr'ing the argument, because that';s what made sense to me if it was dotted 21:20:02 but no dice 21:20:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:34 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:36 no dots, no dice. 21:20:41 heh 21:21:27 wooo it worked, and i understand why and how it works 21:21:29 thanks, guys 21:21:46 (and thanks, clhs!) 21:22:05 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@80.229.118.81] has joined #lisp 21:22:06 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:22:39 prxq: thanks for challenging me with the "oh please." it gave me the push i needed to learn a whole new concept. I appreciate it. 21:24:41 pnq [~nick@ACA28C5C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:49 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.165.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:43 osoleve: np 21:26:01 which sort of brings me back to an older question: if i'm doing `notany lambda ()` on a vector with a length of 100, what do i put between the parentheses after lambda? 21:26:15 osoleve: you read a book. 21:26:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:34 pkhuong: pcl or lol? i've read them both. I must have missed the part that explains that, or it slipped my mind. sorry if my asking questions trying to learn is bothering you. 21:28:05 osoleve: The quality of question is very poor. PCL discusses how to use lambda in detail. 21:28:07 osoleve: (notany (lambda (element) (whatever-test element)) my-100-element-vector) 21:28:20 osoleve: If you already read it, you read it too quickly and without working hard enough. 21:28:55 -!- vsync_ is now known as vsync 21:29:11 Xach: I never claimed to know everything in it. I'm reading and re-reading both books over and over because I'm having a hard time "getting it" 21:29:54 that's why I come here, to fill in the parts that I can't seem to glean from the book, because I learn better writing my own example programs than I do following examples in the books 21:30:03 osoleve: maybe spending more time understanding the examples will help 21:30:28 I'll try to keep my questions to a higher standard in the future, or just not ask at all 21:30:38 osoleve: Ok, the syntax and semantics of lambda is something very fundamental and well-covered in the book, and many other books on Lisp as well. Asking really basic things like that gets on almost everyone's nerves. 21:30:48 osoleve: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_AllSym.htm You can access the definition of any symbol from there. 21:30:57 osoleve: part of the learning experience consists in smouldering in your own lack of understanding by yourself and try to figure it out. None of this is rocket science. 21:32:22 osoleve: have you tried with 'a gentle introduction to common lisp'? 21:33:05 prxq: never even heard of it. I got into Lisp because I was looking for something to kill time with and I stumbled across PCL in the bookstore 21:33:21 I got tired of learning shallow shit like web programming 21:33:26 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:48 osoleve: it is available online and explains things with a great level of detail. 21:33:58 i'll look into it, thanks 21:34:07 osoleve: web programming can be very complicated and deep 21:34:13 xan_ [~xan@220.241.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 prxq: not the stuff i was being commissioned for, haha 21:34:34 -!- e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:07 I mean, I got into the Ajax stuff, and that was plenty confusing and stimulating, but I've always tended towards the computational part of computing rather than the networking part. 21:36:20 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:42 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:39:52 Well, I have an NA meeting to attend now, so I'm off. I really am sorry if I ticked anyone off, or if I came across as combative after the fact. I sincerely apologize. 21:41:34 osoleve: it was not *that* bad 21:42:25 prxq: regardless, i'm trying to work on my character defects, and getting defensive is a big one, so it merited an apology 21:42:30 ciao, folks. 21:42:43 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:00 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:44:38 *francogrex* seems to be one of the very few who cares about sbcl on windows (or care for windows for that matter) 21:45:24 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-dtjfuzeugcjlbupg] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:45:32 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fhvarfyipcrqlewj] has joined #lisp 21:46:55 hm can i set a defsystem to load files from a diff path? i.e. i'd like to have proj.asd and src/proj.lisp 21:47:07 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 21:47:14 -!- mheld [~mheld@64.134.70.113] has quit [Quit: mheld] 21:47:24 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:47:27 yes 21:47:45 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 21:49:04 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-179-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:49:06 see the :module keyword 21:49:15 francogr` [~user@109.130.64.62] has joined #lisp 21:49:55 Fade: there is no way to just set the components to be loaded from somewhere by default? i saw the module keyword, but that will misrepresent the system from a logical standpoint 21:49:59 hi 21:50:32 please what is the equivalent of ext:shell for sbcl? 21:51:00 i guess you could pass a non-relative path to a :static-file declaration.. 21:51:03 i've never tried it. 21:51:18 I don't understand what you mean about misrepresenting the system from a logical standpoint. 21:51:32 since if my app is entirely defined within a module, it's not a module per se. 21:51:45 do most people not separate their .asd from the rest of src? 21:52:04 francogrex: I care too, I just don't have resources to do anything about it :P 21:52:05 why would you get hung up on what you think it means semantically when what it does is actually define the behaviour you're talking about? 21:52:18 i'd assume a logical hierarchy to look like: README, proj.asd, src/*.lisp 21:52:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.74.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:52:27 Fade: good question. creating busy work for myself looks like it. 21:52:28 yan_: I always put my lisp systems in subdirs under the asd file. 21:52:36 Fade: and then use modules? 21:52:40 ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has joined #lisp 21:52:46 yes 21:53:16 i think you're attaching some meaning to 'module' that isn't accurately reflected by the asdf system itself. 21:54:30 Fade: perhaps. fair enough, thank you. 21:55:30 if you want to see an example of a very well laid out asdf system, look at the asd file for xach's zs3 21:57:49 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-179-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:02:01 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 22:08:26 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:09:28 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-66-201.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Good night. :)] 22:12:31 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:50 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:13:20 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:19 How can I MERGE an adjustable array and get an adjustable array from the result? 22:15:22 yvdriess [~Beef@94-224-247-121.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:30 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:11 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:04 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.252.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:19:51 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:20:37 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:20:40 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:10 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:21:13 austinh: using CL:MERGE and CL:ADJUST-ARRAY on the result. 22:21:24 pjb: thanks! 22:22:35 austinh: notice that an implementation could return an ajustable array already, so adjust-array will just return it. 22:22:49 But if it doesn't, then adjust-array will make one. 22:24:16 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:30:16 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 22:31:51 Fade: thanks for your help, managed to break up the megafile into an asdf system 22:34:56 -!- pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:36:31 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:47 what's the difference between 'evenp and #'evenp ? 22:40:06 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:40:13 the first is equivalent to (quote evenp), the latter to (function evenp) 22:40:24 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 22:40:57 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-179-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:25 interesting that remove-if-not accepts both 22:41:55 clhs funcall 22:42:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:42:56 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:04 adeht: in the case of CL:EVENP, there should be no difference ever, in a conforming program. 22:46:00 -!- nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-210-236.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:30 adeht: however, if it's not CL:EVENP, then you could write (shadown 'evenp) (defun evenp (x) (cl:evenp x)) (flet ((evenp (x) (print 'my-evenp) (not (oddp x)))) (print "and here, 'evenp and #'evenp will be different:") (mapcar (lambda (f) (funcall f 32)) (list 'evenp #'evenp))) 22:46:50 pjb: perhaps you're talking to devinus? 22:46:59 drats! 22:47:02 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:47:09 s/adeht/devinus/g 22:47:15 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@94-224-247-121.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:47:26 nobody can replace me! 22:47:35 small window size... Too many irc channels open... 22:47:39 pjb: i have no idea what you just said, but maybe someday i will... 22:47:54 Try to evaluate the forms I gave. s/shadown/shadow/ 22:48:26 devinus: in short, a function can be defined lexically with flet or labels, and then 'f refers to the global one, while #'f will refer to the local one. 22:48:43 i see 22:49:07 devinus: but you should not flet or labels a symbol from CL in conforming programs. 22:49:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:53 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:50:25 it also has implications for redefinition.. I think devinus would benefit from looking in the clhs's glossary entry for "function designator", which is what remove-if-not takes 22:50:28 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:19 guys...im on like...chapter 3 of PCL 22:51:29 you're blowin' my mind too fast 22:53:06 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@91.125.101.180] has joined #lisp 22:56:02 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #lisp 22:56:16 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@80.229.118.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:56:24 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:59:22 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:37 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-23-126.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:40 -!- vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:01:10 whats a good lisp ORM ? 23:01:15 (if there exists one) 23:01:43 there aren't (m)any options in the class of something like SQLAlchemy. 23:01:52 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:01:57 Okay, I've asked this before. This time I'm going to write it on a postIt. How do I get SBCL in SLIME to give me restarts when I try to redefine a package such that it creates package conflicts? 23:02:02 postmodern is nice for postres. 23:02:04 I.e. to unintern the conflicting symbols, etc. 23:02:21 Fade: funny you mention sqlalchemy, i love sqlalchemy 23:02:32 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:02:33 SQLAlchemy is a very good package. 23:02:56 you could check out relational objects for lisp 23:02:59 ROFL 23:03:03 it's in quicklisp. 23:03:08 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442720.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:21 cartan [cartan@p57BB32FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:58 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@91.125.101.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:07:35 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633890.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:09:44 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 23:10:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:08 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 23:15:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:16:54 gigamonkey: ok, now for writing... 23:17:10 wheee! 23:18:01 so, I read in the size and then the rest of the box, all good... Now I change the data in a box, or add a child box. The size needs to change... Do I just change those offline, so to speak, or can I do so lazily at write time? 23:18:08 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f469.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:52 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:42 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:23:37 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:51 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:27:22 slyrus: I don't see any reason you can't do it lazily. 23:27:40 vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:04 gigamonkey: ok, so do that with a define-binary-type's :writer? 23:28:30 -!- cartan [cartan@p57BB32FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: too much talk] 23:28:33 You could. 23:28:48 is there a better way? 23:29:18 Another point of view is to keep the serialization code fairly straightforward (i.e. just write out the value in the slot) but write your code for manipulating the objects maintain whatever invariants as much as possible. 23:29:42 -!- muhdik_ [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:30:30 -!- sluggo [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: .] 23:31:49 -!- plage`` [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:03 -!- stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-113-74.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:28 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:36:05 You can fairly easily arrange, during reading, for objects to have pointers to enclosing objects, again using the *in-progress-objects* stack. 23:36:22 Then you can define appropriate methods on any objects that you mutate to update their parents as appropriate. 23:36:57 E.g. if BoxA contains BoxB and you programmatically change BoxB in some way to change its size, whatever code does that can be implemented to adjust BoxA's size appropriately. 23:37:12 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:38:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:12 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-174-237.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:45 while running a program I am getting this: "The value NIL is not of type (UNSIGNED-BYTE 16)"; but my problem is I can't spot exactly where it is happening in the program! 23:41:57 gigamonkey: hmm... how do I declare slots that aren't supposed to get read/written? 23:42:38 can I use a conditional break so that I enter the debugger when I get this spesific error and do a step evaluation /inspection from there? 23:43:34 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-158-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:45 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:09 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-61-61-83.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:47:41 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-190-203.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:55 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-152-24.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:02 slyrus: I don't think there's any particular syntax for that but as a kludge you could define a binary-type that doesn't read or write anything. 23:54:22 Or you could define a class with the non-persistent fields and subclass it. 23:55:05 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:44 Ok, thanks 23:56:39 francogrex: You could try compiling with high optimization settings, then go down the stack trace and type `v' to get to the source. 23:58:38 plage: I'm using these optim are they ok: (declaim (optimize (speed 0) (space 1) (compilation-speed 0) (debug 3)))